Modern Wisdom“My Autism Keeps Upsetting People” - Vittorio Angelone
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
120 min read · 24,499 words- 0:00 – 1:29
Was Vittorio Actually a Jordan Peterson Fan?
- CWChris Williamson
Maybe you are quite Peterson pilled, cleaning your room
- VAVittorio Angelone
Listen, I read the 12 Rules for Life book-
- CWChris Williamson
Did you really?
- VAVittorio Angelone
... and I found it helpful-
- CWChris Williamson
Did you really?
- VAVittorio Angelone
... when I was, like, 22. And I'm so-
- CWChris Williamson
Are you an ex Jordan Peterson fan?
- VAVittorio Angelone
I'm so embarrassed. [laughs] I'm so, like, spiritually, like, I don't know, something about me and my audience would hate the fact that I really find Jordan Peterson very helpful.
- CWChris Williamson
And-
- VAVittorio Angelone
And made my girlfriend watch it when I was 22. Be like, "Look at this guy. Cathy Newman's an idiot, isn't she?" It's terrible. I'm so embarrassed by all of that, but, like, he was, like, helpful and informative, and I think it was, like, self- it was self-help really, that, like, 12 Rules for Life book, and I needed that. I needed someone to go, "Fucking come on, man. Grow, grow up. Get your shit together."
- CWChris Williamson
Do you think that your audience would guess that you were a previous Jordan Peterson stan?
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm, some of them, some of them I think won't be. Or, like, wouldn't be, like, happy or, or, like, maybe they'd be surprised. But I think that's where I like to... Like, I try to be honest about that stuff, and I, like, I would like, I would like to hear someone be like, "Oh yeah, I found that helpful."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
"And then it went a bit crazy," you know? Um, so I try to be, like, open about that I was, like, a, I'm still a dumb idiot guy.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
This is the problem. I write, like, like, narrative, thoughtful, thematic stand-up shows, but I'm a fucking idiot. Like, you know what I mean? So it's hard.
- 1:29 – 11:29
Did Vittorio Get Spiked By a Redneck?
- CWChris Williamson
You got spiked.
- VAVittorio Angelone
I got spiked in Nashv- Listen, allegedly, I don't know. They were like, "We could do a toxicology report on you, but it costs, like, X thousand dollars." And I was like, "Just give me whatever stops me vomiting right now, and I'll be okay." But I thought it was, like... I thought it was just, like, a really unjust hangover. I was in Nashville. I did a show. I went for a couple drinks afterwards and a game of pool, and I was like, "Yeah, I had a couple drinks." And then I remember, like, getting back to the... Or, like, my friend giving me a lift back to the hotel, and me being like, "I am fucking trollied right now. Like, when did that happen?" And then started playing him, like, Mongolian throat singing on Spotify, which was, like, that [laughs] I mean, I don't know if that's a symptom of being spiked, but like-
- CWChris Williamson
By a Mongolian
- VAVittorio Angelone
... yeah, maybe.
- CWChris Williamson
It's a Mongolian vibe
- VAVittorio Angelone
Maybe a Mongolian spiked me. Um, but then I don't remember lots of patches of the evening, and I don't remember getting into the hotel room and, like, going to bed or whatever. And when I woke up, my phone was, like, in the bathroom not plugged in, and, like, all my shit was, like, all over the hotel room.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- VAVittorio Angelone
And I woke up, and I just thought it was, like, a really... You know when you get a bad hangover but you don't think you deserve it?
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
You're like, "I didn't... I w- I wasn't that fucked up."
- CWChris Williamson
This is unjust.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Exactly. It was like, "This is not karmically balanced right now." So I got up, and then I, like, vomited, and I was like, "God, that was pretty bad." Did a shit. Also pretty bad. And then I was like, "Come on, you just gotta get your shit together." Like, I w- I went Jor- I went full Jordan Peterson. I was like, "I just gotta tidy my room, and I'll be okay." And then I vomited, like, once every 30 minutes for, like, the whole mor- until I checked out, and then I checked out of the hotel and had to go to the toilet in the lobby-
- CWChris Williamson
Oh
- VAVittorio Angelone
... and throw up there. And I was like, "This is not... This is no hangover I've experienced," and I've drank a lot-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm
- VAVittorio Angelone
... in the past. And so the guy, this guy Ian, who was, like, filming the show and stuff, he was, like, still in town, and he was like, "Do you want me to take you to, like, an IV clinic?" And I was like, "This is the most, like, American shit of all time of, like, go to some weird, like, spa where they just hook a- hook you up-"
- CWChris Williamson
Gonna wave sage at you.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, exactly.
- CWChris Williamson
Do a sound bowl.
- VAVittorio Angelone
And then they were closed, so we were like, "Oh, shit." And so we went to urgent care, which I don't really know what that is. Like, I don't under- the American healthcare system is, like, weird. It's not the emergency room, but it's, like, a step before that.
- CWChris Williamson
It's a half A&E.
- VAVittorio Angelone
But it's also beside a burger restaurant. [laughs] I was like, "This, this country's fucked." This country's... This is where there should be, like, a barber shop or, like, you know? But there's a healthcare facility. So I walked in, and I think because I was just being, like, polite to the woman behind the desk, I was like, "Oh, hi, blah, blah, blah."
- CWChris Williamson
She thought you were minimizing how serious it was.
- VAVittorio Angelone
She just thought I was, like, kind of fine, and I, like, signed in and, like, just did, like, persistent vomiting was, like, my symptom on the thing. And then, so I was sat there, and, like, people kept getting called in before me. And then at one point I was like, "Oh, I'm getting that feeling where I'm gonna, like, throw up again." And I, I was, like, texting my mom at the time, and her actual advice was, "Throw up in the lobby," 'cause then they'll-
- CWChris Williamson
Escalate
- VAVittorio Angelone
... they'll see you. [laughs] Like, no, I mean, which is, like, crazy mom advice of, like, just throw up on the floor. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
Pretty effective.
- VAVittorio Angelone
And I didn't do that, but it w- mainly because the bathroom was, like, right beside the reception desk.
- CWChris Williamson
It's pretty egregious if the bathroom is within sight.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Exactly, to just go, "Blah. Help."
- 11:29 – 17:57
The UK’s Superior Sandwich Technology
- CWChris Williamson
Have you been on top of it up until getting poisoned?
- VAVittorio Angelone
I had a crazy one, and this is gonna become a stand-up routine, but like no... The problem with the stand-up routine at the minute is nobody believes that it happened. Uh, went to LA first. That was good fun. A terrible city. It's not really a city. It's not a place. It's just roads.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
It's roads with occasional things. Like I know that is what a city is, but it's not, it's got nothing tying it together.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Um, and then went to New York, and my girlfriend came, met me in New York, and we were like, "Let's do some like, you know-"
- CWChris Williamson
Couple of shit
- VAVittorio Angelone
... "touristy, touristy things. Let's get a bagel. Let's do whatever." And, uh, so it was the day after I landed into New York. Uh, we were walking around, we got a bagel, and then- We went to the 9/11 memorial, and we were like, it was just nearby, and we were like, "That's pretty, like, you know, important to see." And I-- this is the bit that people don't believe in audiences. I, um, I shit myself at the 9/11 memorial. [laughs] I turned to my girlfriend and was like, "Oh, no." [laughs] And she was like, "Yeah, it's so sad." [laughs] And I was like, " [laughs] I've shit my pants."
- CWChris Williamson
What?
- VAVittorio Angelone
"I've sh- I've, I've shit my full pants." Um, it was like a shart. It was, like, pretty small, but-
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- VAVittorio Angelone
... not great.
- CWChris Williamson
So this trip so far has actually been defined by your bowels.
- VAVittorio Angelone
I don't think food in this country is good for you. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
It's not food.
- VAVittorio Angelone
It's not food.
- CWChris Williamson
It's not really food.
- VAVittorio Angelone
I tried to get, like, a super plain sandwich at the airport in Nashville, and it's like this bread isn't bread. This turkey isn't turkey. None of this is food.
- CWChris Williamson
No.
- VAVittorio Angelone
It's like sponge.
- CWChris Williamson
That's something, that's something that American people, I think, are missing out on. Advanced country, m- little, m- military technology, AI, all this stuff. Sandwich technology just has not crossed over from the UK. When you think about, they don't understand what the meal deal is.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Oh, it's a gorgeous institution.
- CWChris Williamson
Dude, you know, I found this out 'cause, uh, Neutonic's in the Sainsbury's meal deal now, so-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Oh, congratulations.
- CWChris Williamson
Thank you very much. It's a b- that's kind of a little bit like being, uh, knighted. It's like, it's getting an OBE or an MBE or something. It's not quite a knighthood yet. Um, anyway, the average British citizen has 70 meal deals a year. That's-
- VAVittorio Angelone
That is low. [laughs] That is, uh, in my opinion, that is low.
- CWChris Williamson
I know, but that's the average.
- VAVittorio Angelone
That's the, there's gonna be some-
- CWChris Williamson
Right? There's gonna be people-
- VAVittorio Angelone
... having more
- 17:57 – 24:54
How a Late Autism Diagnosis Changed Vittorio
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, you mentioned before, uh, autism, adult autism diagnosis.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, age 29, right? Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
What's changed since that happened? Anything?
- VAVittorio Angelone
I don't know. A lot of people who get the diagnosis are like, "And everything suddenly made sense, and I could manage my life, and I could-" You know, get over these obstacles that I'd always struggled with. But I think it's like, for me, it felt like an extremely gradual process where, like, there was... It starts with, like, jokes. Like, your friends just call you autistic, basically. And then I sort of socially bumped into a lot of people, like, in a negative way, just got some things wrong. And to the- But then, like, I would have an interaction with somebody that I thought was, like, positive, and then I would get, like, a big message the next day saying how much I'd, like, insulted them or, like, offended them.
- CWChris Williamson
You'd stepped over some social faux pas that you didn't see.
- VAVittorio Angelone
I'd like not... I was just like, "What a nice chat." And then the next day they're like, "You, you make me feel like shit every time we talk." Um, and those are just the people who are, like-
- CWChris Williamson
Prepared to reach out.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Exactly. So I must be doing this all the fucking time.
- CWChris Williamson
You're saying there's a wake of destruction?
- VAVittorio Angelone
No-
- CWChris Williamson
Wake of autistic destruction behind you.
- VAVittorio Angelone
I mean, there may well be, and I just have no idea. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
You're completely oblivious, blissfully unaware.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Just completely no idea. It's so, it's definitely not blissful. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- VAVittorio Angelone
It's, it's unaware. I think this is a misconception about autism, that we're, that it's, like, blissful lack of awareness of how you're affecting-
- CWChris Williamson
Floating through life
- VAVittorio Angelone
... people socially. It's that I am constantly so worried that I've upset people, but I have no way to tell if that's the case whatsoever. So you're just, like, swinging punches with a blindfold on, going, like, apologizing when you didn't need to apologize, and, like, patting yourself-
- CWChris Williamson
But you're missing the mark on both sides.
- VAVittorio Angelone
I'm fucking it. I'm fucking it in both directions. I'm apologizing when I had no need to apologize. I'm patting myself on the back when I've ruined somebody's day. And that, I s- sort of, that made me reach out to a medical professional and go, "Hey, there's something, there's something going on here." Um, also I was, like, a very strange child. I was very anxious. I, like, had loads of panic attacks when I was, like, 9, 10, 11 years old. Um, ran away from school and, like, tried to run home, and was, like, just couldn't... Had to be, had to do lessons in, like, a different room to everybody else, just do worksheets by myself. Had to go in through a different entry to primary school, like different door, 'cause I just couldn't deal with, like, the crowds of people and all this stuff. Um, I punched my primary school principal, uh, 'cause I was trying to run away, and she, and she was trying to stop me running away.
- CWChris Williamson
How old were you?
- VAVittorio Angelone
Nine.
- CWChris Williamson
At what point does a punch become a punch?
- VAVittorio Angelone
Like, at what age?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- VAVittorio Angelone
It's like, yeah, it's like a puppy, like, nip- like biting your ankle or whatever. It's like, "Oh, that's cute," up until the point-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, and then it's actually assault.
- VAVittorio Angelone
I would say, like, probably the cutoff is, like, 10 or 11.
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm. Yeah, you just nipped in-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, yeah, yeah
- 24:54 – 29:29
When Do You Become Responsible for Your Actions?
- CWChris Williamson
It is an interesting point. W- at, at what point are you culpable for your actions?
- VAVittorio Angelone
Hmm, you have to be.
- CWChris Williamson
You know, like that guy that had Tourette's at, was it the BAFTAs?
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, fuck everybody that was mean to him. Fuck every single person that was mean to him about that. I like, I was so angry about that whole scenario. I didn't think I was a particularly well-versed person on, like, Tourette's, but apparently no one in America has ever done even the most base, like watched any-
- CWChris Williamson
Tertiary research
- VAVittorio Angelone
... like, any awareness of what it is whatsoever, and act like-
- CWChris Williamson
We've known about it in the UK. I, I don't ever remember a time of not knowing about Tourette's, like even when I was a kid, I think-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... in the UK.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Reggie Yates did a documentary called Super Tourette's.
- CWChris Williamson
Is that, is that a-
- VAVittorio Angelone
'Cause that's an actual medical term, Super Tourette.
- CWChris Williamson
And what's that?
- VAVittorio Angelone
So their tics, like their physical tics are so intense that they, like, fall down, and it's, like, funny. [laughs] And obviously, like, devastating and debilitating for them, but like, I think they should've come up with a different name.
- CWChris Williamson
It sounds desirable.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Super Tourette's.
- CWChris Williamson
It sounds like what you get if you upgrade, if you press the upgrade button when you're adding to the cart.
- VAVittorio Angelone
[laughs] Tourette's Plus.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, it is. It's the, [laughs] it is. It's the value meal. It's a Happy Meal equivalent.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And do you want a drink with that?
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
Super size it?
- VAVittorio Angelone
Super size, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Do you wanna supersize your Tourette's?
- CWChris Williamson
Super- supersize Tourette's.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah. So and then, so all these Hollywood actors coming out and being like, "I think he meant that. Why was that word in his brain?" And I'm like, 'cause it's the worst thing you could say in that moment, and that's, that's the condition.
- CWChris Williamson
Wasn't d- that same guy, while it, on the documentary when his dog was about to cross the road, was said to his dog, like, "Cross the road. Nope." And then his fi- not, e- even his interactions with his favorite animal-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah
- 29:29 – 31:12
The Discomfort of Making Someone Uncomfortable
- CWChris Williamson
And it's, and what's interesting was, um, listening to you tell your story about what childhood was like for you and the, some of those scripts, uh, certainly for me reflecting on my childhood, one of my most common recurring uncomfortable dreams is me doing something-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Hmm
- CWChris Williamson
... to another person that I thought was just a bit of fun-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Right
- CWChris Williamson
... or I thought was a normal interaction-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... to then find out that I've crossed some invisible line that I didn't know existed-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... and to then immediately feel horrendous about it.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
The last one of these I had was about two weeks ago or so, and it was Yasmin who does the guest booking-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm-hmm
- CWChris Williamson
... to go- that got you here. Uh, we were walking down the street, and I had a, like, like a Gatorade bottle like that, that had water in.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And I thought we were just playing about, and I sort of splashed some water at her, and that turned out to be this huge-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, yeah, yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... faux pas that I'd done, and immediately I felt terrible. And then I woke up, and I was, I was all- I was all anxious, and I just woke up, and that was it. And that's, that is a consistent-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... theme, not only in my life, but also in the dreams that I've had for, like, a ve- like, that is the... If you were to pick the center of the bullseye of my awkwardness-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm
- CWChris Williamson
... in reality, it's me doing a thing and someone being mad at me without me realizing that I'd done it, and then finding out. Importantly, then finding out.
- VAVittorio Angelone
'Cause occasionally you do something in your life, whether it's in work or relationships, where you go, "Look, this might upset this person, but I'm going in with my eyes open," and I, like-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm
- VAVittorio Angelone
... still think this is the right thing to do-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm
- VAVittorio Angelone
... even though it's going to be, like, uncomfortable or upset them, and that's one thing. But then, like, just being so blindsided by it.
- 31:12 – 37:55
How Big is the Autism Spectrum?
- VAVittorio Angelone
What do you think? Like, are you, are you interested in the pos- like, do you think you might have autism? Like, I don't wanna be one of these autistic people that-
- CWChris Williamson
I'm not gonna wear your culture as my costume.
- VAVittorio Angelone
No, but-
- CWChris Williamson
Uh-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Like, and, God, there's enough autistic people that go around diagnosing everyone else.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, that's true.
- VAVittorio Angelone
But, like, I-
- CWChris Williamson
Uh-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Like, what would you-
- CWChris Williamson
I have no idea. I have absolutely no idea. There's certainly some trai- I mean, again, pathologizing anything, everything is just some s- some form of a spectrum, right? And at some point you breach the threshold-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm
- CWChris Williamson
... for it to be said, "And now you are depressed, and now you are anxious, and now you are Asperger's, and now," da, da, da, da. Uh, but I, I've always made this joke, which is maybe a self-protection thing. I don't know the difference between being an only child and being autistic. [laughs]
- VAVittorio Angelone
[laughs] You're just an unsocialized boy.
- CWChris Williamson
Bingo.
- VAVittorio Angelone
You-
- CWChris Williamson
So, but then, uh-
- VAVittorio Angelone
You weren't introduced to other dogs when you were young
- CWChris Williamson
... or maybe that ramps up your predisposition a little bit-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm
- CWChris Williamson
... because there's all of the memes around, well, you know, people that have got autism can't hold eye contact, or people that have got autism are unable to operate socially. They, they-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm-hmm
- CWChris Williamson
... need to do stimming. They need to da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. And then you realize actually there's a infinity number of ways that it can show up.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
But then also, people's desire to have some form of mental pathology so that they can have a thing. I think autism is, it is sort of the sexy new... If you're gonna have a mental malady, it's one of the ones that people kind of typically are like, "Okay." It's like, "I'm just auti-" Like, you know, it's, it's a word that gets thrown around an awful lot.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, and that's difficult. I think it, there's a great book. There's two great books by comedians about adult autism diagnosis. There's Fern Brady, uh, Strong Female Character, and there's, uh, Pierre Novellie, Why Can't I Just Enjoy Things? And they're real sort of like shot chaser, like Fern's just like, "Fuck, mad." Uh, and Pierre's is like, "And here's why I think, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da."
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- VAVittorio Angelone
But it's really, really interesting. And, um, Pierre talks about a couple things in that, uh, where what I l- um, where he says, like, the, the terminology, like, of the word, like, autism will probably become, like, defunct reasonably soon because it's a really big umbrella term.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Like, a really big umbrella term. And a helpful thing was the Asperger's category, but you're not supposed to say that anymore 'cause he was a Nazi.
- CWChris Williamson
Who was?
- 37:55 – 44:22
The Irish Times Article That Went Viral
- CWChris Williamson
What happened with this Irish Times article thing?
- VAVittorio Angelone
Oh, that was interesting. I feel a little bit bad about that. Um, I've spoken to the lady who wrote the article, and I had spoken to her before she wrote the article. Um, so to fill people in, like, I-- there was a write-up about a few different things in The Irish Times, like me, Sally Rooney, and Kneecap, just the big three. Um, and, uh, and it, within it, there was sort of like a couple paragraphs of, like, a review of my, uh, show that they'd come and seen. And I'd, like, spoken to her on the phone about it, and she'd written, like, really interesting articles about, like, Ireland has an incredibly high GDP and is a very wealthy country, but the public services, like, are dog shit. Like, public transport's really bad. There's no national health service. There's, like, this, that, and the other. Like, whereas we had-- the whole point of this, like, letting all these corporations come into Dublin and have their offices there-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
- VAVittorio Angelone
... is that you do make some money off them, and then that goes into, like, life benefit for everybody.
- CWChris Williamson
Do you benefit from that north of the border?
- VAVittorio Angelone
Uh, no.
- CWChris Williamson
Right.
- VAVittorio Angelone
No, but, like, the whole ba-da-ba.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Um, and I think she's really interesting. I think she's really clever. Uh, but when she wrote about my show, she said that, like, it was unapologetically local, and, like, if you don't get the references, that's your problem. And she, like, quoted another review that gave me two stars at the Fringe of someone who clearly just, like, didn't get the show at all, which is one of my favorite reviews actually, the two-star one. It really made me laugh quite a lot. Um, but I just, like, she'd phrased it in a way that I was like, "Oh, that's a bit annoying." Like, this is quite a big, like, newspaper, and if I were someone that didn't know who Vittorio Mangione was and I read that, I would think that's just, like, it's a bit of a stereotype of Northern Irish comedians that we just do the, you know, it's funny 'cause it's local thing of going, "I don't know about this one."
- CWChris Williamson
And also it's inaccessible, which means if I was maybe thinking that I was gonna buy a ticket-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... I'm like, "Well, I'm not, I don't speak Belfast. I'm not gonna go."
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, so it's just like, whereas in the show, like, that was the point I made when I did, like, a post about it on Instagram being like, I, you know, wrote this show in London, trialed it all around England, did it at the Edinburgh Fringe, did it in New York. I've now done it in America. And in the article she said, like, I refuse to explain myself, but I, like, truly don't. Like, I, I do loads of exposition and, like, expl- and that's, like, the fun of the show is, like, going, "Hey, this place I'm from is a bit fucked up. Here's why. Here's this. Here's that."
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- VAVittorio Angelone
"Here's this weird quirk about it." And, like, opening it out to the, is, like, the sort of half of the point of the show that I've written. And I was just, like, a little bit annoyed, so I just was like, "Oh, you know, I'll just post a little thing on Instagram." And this has happened a couple times recently, and this is, like, I think this, don't know if this is an autism thing, but, like, maybe where I just think I'm, like, having a little bit of fun or, like, just informing people of something. Like, uh, my run of shows in Belfast, one of the nights, uh, like, 20 people arrived 30 minutes late, and I, like, asked the audience, I was like, "Oh," like, "is it unclear on the website what time this starts?" And they were like, "Yeah, kind of." Um, so in the interval I just went on my, on Instagram and did, like, a black square, white text, and was like, "Oh, 20 people just arrived half an hour late for my show. Um, for the rest of this week, doors are at this time, show's at this time, except for the matinees. Doors are at this time, show at this time. Thanks." And it's gotten, like, more views than most of my stand-up clips, I think because people think I'm being, like-
- CWChris Williamson
Tatty
- VAVittorio Angelone
... really fucking rude or whatever. But it was just, like, "Here are the facts of the situation, and here is how I can help." And then I think with The Irish Times, I was, like, just trying to do a little, "Ah, I didn't like the way this person phrased themselves about my show." And then, uh, it, like, just blew up in, like, a kinda mad way where it has, like, 40,000 likes or something. And then some people are going, "I think you've misread the article." And I, but I agree, she was trying to compliment me in the article, but I just don't, I do- I don't think it came across in a way that was, like, nice. So I tried to do a little post about it, and then she reached out and was like, "Oh, I think you've kind of taken me out of context." And I was like, "You and me both, sister."
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- VAVittorio Angelone
Like, you know, we're kinda... It was a funny phone call. She was like, "You gonna apologize?" And I was like, "Are you?" Like, we've both pissed each oth- other off.
- CWChris Williamson
Fucking standing armies here.
- VAVittorio Angelone
And we're, we're, we're both probably in the wrong a little bit.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah.
- VAVittorio Angelone
And didn't phrase ourselves perfectly, and I maybe shouldn't have put her na- like, scre- in the screenshot I kept her name and, like, the article. But I'm also like, your name's in the newspaper beside where the article is. Like, it's not like it's hard to find out who wrote the article. But then the problem with the internet is it's just full of cunts, isn't it? So, like, people sent her, like, horrible messages on Instagram and stuff, and I was like, I have, like, I don't know how much responsibility I need to take for my audience, but, like- I'm sorry that that happened. That wasn't my intention. And like, you know, we're like friendly enough now and just have a sort of agree to disagree thing on that-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. Mm-hmm
- VAVittorio Angelone
... in that I think she didn't phrase herself well. She thinks I didn't phrase myself well. And like, I don't know, like it's very easy as a comedian to do this whole like, "Fuck everybody. I don't fucking care."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
"And if somebody has a go at me, whoa, I'm just a comedian," or whatever. Like, but I don't... Like, that's not how I like to exist in the world. Like, I upset somebody, so I reached out to them and had a phone call and was like, "Hey, let's fucking talk this through. We might not agree at the end of the conversation, but-"
- CWChris Williamson
Have a half apology each.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah. Maybe even. I don't think either of us really apologized, but it was just like, "Okay, I sort of understand where you're coming from. You sort of understand where I'm coming from. It's nice."
- 44:22 – 53:49
UK vs US: Who Has the Best Roasts?
- CWChris Williamson
I've been watching the fallout after the roast of Kevin Hart thing.
- VAVittorio Angelone
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
It's been kind of fascinating to see, and I was thinking about what would be the difference if it had happened in the UK-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Hm
- CWChris Williamson
... 'cause, uh, I don't know. From... I've been in the US for four years now, but obviously still listen to a lot of you, listen to a lot of Finn, listen to the Screen Rock boys-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm, you tap in
- CWChris Williamson
... you know, listening to... Yeah, like, I've said to you before, this is my... it's m- my way to tap back into a little bit of British culture.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
It sort of reminds me that Jaffa Cakes and The Inbetweeners and-
- VAVittorio Angelone
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
... you know, like fucking Wayne Lineker still exists.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Like, it's very important for me to have my cultural way markers.
- VAVittorio Angelone
These are the three pillars of the UK?
- CWChris Williamson
Correct. [laughs] Jaffa Cakes-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Jaffa Cakes, The Inbetweeners-
- CWChris Williamson
... Inbetweeners and Wayne Lineker
- VAVittorio Angelone
... and Wayne Lineker. Wow. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs] It's true. Um, but I was thinking 'cause you guys did a roast recently-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm
- CWChris Williamson
... maybe not, you know, not Netflix and Kevin Hart or whatever, but... And then what's happening with, whatever we wanna call it, like British comedy now, uh, it seems like the new... What I'm seeing is a new sort of half generation that's stepping through, which have been mostly born out by the internet, although everyone's done a million years of stand-up. I'm aware that everyone's driven to-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... like Woking and, and Shithouse, like-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Went to Pizza Express
- CWChris Williamson
... Exactly, like done all of those things.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Like they've done that for a long time, and now they've just burst on the internet. But-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... from getting public a- awareness, people are just starting to break through.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm.
- 53:49 – 1:06:00
The Risk of Being Cringe Cancelled
- VAVittorio Angelone
You know?
- CWChris Williamson
There is this, there is definitely a sense that comedians are like, uh, ammunition bullets in the chamber of one particular perspective or another.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
That this thing has happened, and we need someone to comment on it, and we know that if we try and get someone who's too serious-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... it's gonna come across as kind of stodgy, and it doesn't really work on the internet. But we've got this guy, and we think that this guy mostly a- agrees with us.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
So if we can make him aware of this thing, we can kind of point him-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... like a rifle, and then you can, you can pull the trigger, and he'll, he'll do something, and that'll take down... I've been kind of obsessed with this, [laughs] this idea that I heard this week of, uh, a cringe cancellation. So you can cancel somebody because they did something illegal. You can cancel somebody-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Hmm
- CWChris Williamson
... because they said something reprehensible or whatever it is. But there's a much more pernicious type of cancellation, which is, I think, what people are attempting to use comedians for, which is, "I want you to make this person's brand equity so toxic to be associated with-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, wow
- CWChris Williamson
... that they become cringe canceled."
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's probably quite powerful as an idea. I wonder who would, who would I... Who- what's an example of someone who you think has been, like, cringe canceled? Somebody made a joke about them that was so funny
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, Shetty and Bartlett got close to it when you and Mike did that clip.
- VAVittorio Angelone
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
That's the canonical example.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Wizards of Nothing?
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs] That was the one.
- VAVittorio Angelone
That's true. That's one of my favorite-
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, that, that went interstellar, but that's what- that's the kind of thing that I'm talking about-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yes
- CWChris Williamson
... which is like if, if, if... And, uh, w- this maybe not even, uh, it's done in advance, "We're gonna try and say this thing to make it so uncool," or whatever. But for the most part, like, uh, a lot of criticisms around Russell Brand. This is a, this is a two-pronged assault, right? The real cancellation, but also the cringe cancellation-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, yeah, yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... which comes in because a lot of the time if someone's, uh, virtue-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm-hmm
- CWChris Williamson
... gets chipped away at, that opens up the opportunity for, oh, maybe the momentum's slowing, which means that we can also get in there and do the, and do the cringe thing too.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
But it's not always prefabricated. I'm not saying that every single time.
- 1:06:00 – 1:23:00
Why You Shouldn’t Hide Your Ambition
- CWChris Williamson
You built a show around a clip of a ten-pin bowler.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Big time.
- CWChris Williamson
What is it about that clip that made you so fascinated with it?
- VAVittorio Angelone
So what's interesting is I-- so the show is called Who Do You Think You Are? I Am. The ten-pin bowler is Pete Webber, uh, who you might have seen on the internet shouting, "Who do you think you are? I am." And I knew when I was like working towards the show that it was going to be a show about identity and how people perceive me and how I perceive myself, and I just thought that was like a funny meme title for that show.
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
But as I was writing the show and performing the show, I realized that like loads of people hadn't seen the clip, which is crazy to me because in my mind it goes viral like once a month to a crazy level. Um, but like most people I performed to on the tour hadn't seen the video at all. So I had, had to like write an explanation of the video at the start of the show, which was a fucking nightmare, but like actually very fun and like exciting, like a fun bit and a fun thing to explain. Um, and then as I was working on the show, I was like, "Oh, this is like-" I think he's me, like in the show. Like I d- I didn't sit down being like, "I'm gonna write a show where I sort of, in the subtext of the show, I am this professional bowler who is like kind of my hero because of this clip." Like it just sort of became evident to me as I was talking about my experiences of that last couple years of like coming across very arrogant to other people, pissing people off without realizing I was pissing them off, and then trying to refind a bit of that swagger, having like put myself in a bit of a box and avoided that for a while.
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
And like, like doing that sort of like wrestling thing, and Pete Webber's a big wrestling fan, of like the heel turn of being like, "Fuck you." This is like a fun thing to play with, the, of like steering into the skid of being like, "I'm arrogant," and therefore like, you know? And Pete Webber's the bad boy of bowling, which is like a very funny thing to be. Like it's a crazy thing to be the bad boy of. But so is standup comedy. Like it's a very embarrassing sort of weird art form kind of, and it's like... So yeah, it just came out of it, um, naturally, and I was really annoyed 'cause he lives in Nashville, but he was away when I was doing my show there.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- VAVittorio Angelone
And I was supposed to do my s- that show about him in Nashville, and I really wanted to do it for him. And I don't know if he's watched it. He follows me on Instagram, and I did message him being like, "Oh, hey, this special came out on YouTube." And he was like, "Yeah, man, I'm gonna watch it this week." And then he hasn't replied since, but I don't know if he just really didn't like it. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
What was the, uh, putting yourself in a box thing, like regressing back and then coming back out? I'm interested in that.
- VAVittorio Angelone
So the story from that, uh, show is like I, a clip of my podcast got screen recorded and sent around lots of comedian WhatsApp groups, uh, where I was saying, talking about having unexpect- having an unexpectedly good run at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. And I was like, "Oh, people keep telling me I'm the guy this year. Like it's my year to be the guy. I'm the fucking guy." And I was saying that I was finding that really stressful. I was having lots of panic attacks, like how am I gonna live up? These weren't people who'd seen the show. They'd just heard the buzz or whatever, and I was like, "How do I live up to whatever this is?" The-
- CWChris Williamson
Kind of the Lewis Capaldi effect.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, of just like, "Oh," like I can't... I mean, on a much smaller scale, but like-
- CWChris Williamson
Yep
- VAVittorio Angelone
... that kind of thing.
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- VAVittorio Angelone
And then, so I was being made fun of. But like they cut off the podcast clip out of context where it's just me going, "People keep telling me I'm the fucking guy this year," and that, and that got sent around. And then people would come up to me during the festival and be like, "Oh, it's the fucking guy." And I'd be like, "Oh, it's happening again." 'Cause I didn't find out-
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- VAVittorio Angelone
I didn't find out about the WhatsApp groups until a month after. So I'd had this month of my life that I was like, "This is the best month of my career so far." So exciting.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Really proud of what I achieved, and I had a really fun time with lots of different comedians. Like it was difficult at points, but I had a really fun time.
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
And then a month later, all of that was like, "Oh, fuck." Like everybody was making fun of me-
- CWChris Williamson
The veil got lifted
- VAVittorio Angelone
... behind my back, and I had no idea.
- CWChris Williamson
It's like my throwing water on Yasmin dream.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, it's that. It's-
- CWChris Williamson
I thought we were all having f- I thought this was a good time.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah. And everybody just thought I was like a wanker.
- 1:23:00 – 1:25:33
Autism or Sociopathy: Where’s the Line?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, it's so funny to think about, uh, the fear that you have of being that thing, meaning that you're almost certainly never going to be that thing. That line about like if you're worried that you're a psychopath, you're probably not a psychopath.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah. I worry about that with the autism stuff. Very similar set of symptoms.
- CWChris Williamson
What, like that you've manifested your own autism?
- VAVittorio Angelone
No, very-
- CWChris Williamson
Or psychopathy
- VAVittorio Angelone
... similar set of symptoms. Sociopath versus autism? There's like, there's like one thing that's not the same. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
What's the thing?
- VAVittorio Angelone
I can't remember what it is, but it's like-
- CWChris Williamson
You're perilously close to being a sociopath.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, it does feel-
- CWChris Williamson
Do people, do you reckon anyone's ever thought that before?
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, I think lots of people who aren't diagnosed with autism before they get diagnosed with autism, they're like, like this, "I'm really worried that I'm like a-"
- CWChris Williamson
Incorrectly pattern matched
- VAVittorio Angelone
... terrible, yeah, terrible-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, I'm a bad person.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Not that I don't, I just-
- VAVittorio Angelone
I don't care about other people, or I don't care about whatever. Like-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm
- VAVittorio Angelone
... I don't know. That authen- authenticity thing's really difficult though as well. Like, I think it's very easy for that to just make you do nothing. It's like, what do you wanna do? What aligns with, like, who you are deep down inside? It's like, I don't know. I probably just wanna sit in and like read my book.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
You know? Like, but like what... I think I have like quite bad, like, anxiety maybe to do with the autism stuff, so I've never been able to trust the gut thing. You know when people go like, "Oh, just trust your gut," I'm like, "I am terrified of everything I ever do." I'm terrified to leave the house every day.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
I can't. My gut is not trustworthy. It's very stressy little gut.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
But you just have to fucking-
- CWChris Williamson
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- 1:25:33 – 1:30:09
Trusting Your Gut Can Be So Hard
- CWChris Williamson
But it's interesting, you-- I've heard you talk as well about how all of the interactions or many of the interactions that you have are kind of prefabricated.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
There's a, a response that I... W- Before somebody asks me a question, I have an idea of what it is that I'm going to say already.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
And, uh, I think that is a way to not need to rely on instinct as much.
- VAVittorio Angelone
I think because as well, my instincts are so, like, intense conversationally. Like, I just wanna ask really, like, difficult questions.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Like, I was hanging out with my uncle, and he travels loads for work. Like, he's all over the world doing this, like, big corporate thing. And I was like-- We were just like have a unborn chat of like, "How's this person in the family? How's that person in the family?" Blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I was like, "Are you still, like, enjoying the travel stuff?" And he was like, "No, not really." And I was like, "Oh, okay." Like, "What's your..." And I sort of stopped myself from going, "Okay, well, but how does it make you feel? Like, what are you... How can you fix that? What's this? What's that with you?" Like, I really wanna, like, interrogate people's, like... And it's not to be like I think they're wrong or they're doing the wrong thing and I want to pick it apart. It's like I just want to, like, them to talk me through their thought process, and just so I find that so interesting, like, the reasons people do things. Also 'cause there's often no reason.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Like, they haven't actually conceptualized that there are other options.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
And they might, like, want to do something else.
- CWChris Williamson
Momentum is a-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... fucking hell of a restrictor on that, "Oh, this is what I've always done," or-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm
- CWChris Williamson
... "This is what I do do," or whatever.
- VAVittorio Angelone
It's the next logical step.
- CWChris Williamson
Let's keep going.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. There's a, a cool idea of sliding versus deciding, and it's, uh, like from couples counseling stuff that you move onto the next step of the relationship.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
We're hanging out on an evening, and then it's a situationship, and then it's a relationship, and then, you know, you come over a bit, and then you got a toothbrush, and you got a drawer, and we're kinda living together, and now there's a golden retriever, and, "Oh, we should get married," and now there's a kid, and, you know, you wake up with a couple of kids and a golden retriever-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... and a house, and you go, "At no point did I feel like I decided-"
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm
- CWChris Williamson
... "to get into this." And it happens with a lot of things in life. People slide through a career. "Well, you know, I, I, I didn't know what to do at university, so I did business."
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
"Did business studies."
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah.
- 1:30:09 – 1:39:04
Why Women Love Comedy Podcasts
- CWChris Williamson
What trouble have you guys gotten into? Has there been anything coming out of that?
- VAVittorio Angelone
Of, like, the naming thing?
- CWChris Williamson
No, no, no, no, of the show generally.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Just the, the podcast?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- VAVittorio Angelone
No, I think, like... Look, every so often we get a little message where someone goes, "Oh, I didn't like that bit," or, "I didn't like this bit," and we have, like... I think we have all sorts of people listening to the podcast, and I think a lot of people think it's, like, guys listen to the podcast, but it's, like, girls with fringes. I think there's something about, like, guys talking shit in, like, a playful, silly, fun way is a way where... I think women generally, like, socially are, like, very good communicators and talk about their feelings. There's that, like, kinda, like, hack standup bit of, you know, I went for a beer with my friend. We spent three hours together. I come back home, and my partner goes, "How's his mom? How's his work going? Is he seeing anyone?" And you're like, "Why would I know any of that stuff?"
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
And she's like, "You spent three hours together. How did you not talk about that stuff?" And they can connect emotionally and really, like, learn about each other and sort of love each other in that way. But I think men, while we're shit at that first one, and I'm trying to get better at it, we're good at just abstract fucking around chat-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm
- VAVittorio Angelone
... and, like, silly, fun chat. And I think, like, for some men listening to our podcast would be like, "Well, I can kinda just, like, chat to my friends and fuck around with them," and that's what this is. And that's nice when you're maybe, like, in a new city and you, like, don't have that set up yet. But I think- A lot of the women that listen to the podcast are like, they don't get those conversations from, like, their group of girl mates. And some, this is all generalizations and all that stuff, you know. There are some women that are like have those conversations and have those chats or whatever. But I think, like, we're providing a service that, like, isn't as readily available to women in a way, which is quite... It's, like, I wasn't expecting it. We weren't targeting a demographic at all, but it was, like, exciting.
- CWChris Williamson
Do you know The Basement Yard? Are you familiar with them?
- VAVittorio Angelone
I do, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay
- VAVittorio Angelone
They're so funny.
- CWChris Williamson
So Joe Santagato was there, I don't know, last week or something, and, uh, they did Madison Square Garden, sold that out, 90% women.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Unbelievable, isn't it? I think it's probably a similar thing.
- CWChris Williamson
It's the exact same thing.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
It's the exact same thing. And, uh, the sound when they walked out on stage, the screams were so loud that everyone's Apple Watches went off warning people that they were in-
- VAVittorio Angelone
That's so funny
- CWChris Williamson
... an unsafe noise environment.
- VAVittorio Angelone
That's so funny.
- CWChris Williamson
Like some fucking Harry Styles concert.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, that's-
- CWChris Williamson
Unbelievable.
- VAVittorio Angelone
That is, and I think, like, that's probably a shame, like, like why women feel like they can't be stupid or silly or fun in that way, you know?
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
They're sup- like, I guess they've been told they're supposed to be buttoned up and, like, responsible maybe, and men have more freedom to-
- CWChris Williamson
I think it's-
- VAVittorio Angelone
... fuck around
- 1:39:04 – 1:44:00
Why Chris is Doing More Hang Episodes
- CWChris Williamson
one of the things, th- there's this great, great article that I saw the other day about grindslop.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
So this is... And I think this is something that I've been feeling for a while, that 1,000- UBI episode 1,110 or something. It's like a lot, right? Uh, and much of that is me as a young man going, "I don't know what to do. I don't know how to, how to operate in the world. I'm confused about emotions, and I-"
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
"... sometimes, I sometimes have self-doubt, and I, I just sleep. I think I should sleep. I should probably sleep more, and I should probably work out what I need to eat. And I'm gonna find whoever I can get ahold of to tr- to, to understand that and understand myself-"
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
"... and understand the world around me," especially as the whatever late adolescent onset, like whatever the opposite of precocious development is. I'm like in my 20s starting to understand me.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Anyway. And, uh, but there is a, there is a degree, at least when I have the conversations where I'm like, a lot of the 80/20 of the development side of stuff, like how to sleep well, what a productivity strategy looks like. It's just how you should eat. This is how you should train. These are how you, you need friends in your life and all of these things. Like, I think a lot of that has already been covered, if not by me, then by other people. So I'm-- one of the reasons that I've got this studio, and we've got this big table, and there's, we're doing these episodes with lots of people, is I get the sense in the age of AI that just raw information dumping is probably not more of what people need. It's probably not more of what I need. I certainly wanna learn about things, and there'll be progress to make, but given that lots of that territory's already been covered-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm
- CWChris Williamson
... by me and by other people, and I think people are feeling more alone. And I know that I, even I as somebody that's constantly around people have that sense too. I'm like, "I, I wanna listen, I just wanna listen to Matt and Shane. I just wanna like have a hang and like... Or I'll tune into you guys, or tune into like, uh, Jacob and Jake, and just listen to them talk bullshit."
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
"I just wanna listen to them talk bullshit." And, um, that's something that I'm actively sort of nudging the show in that direction, and I'm gonna lose a big chunk of the audience from doing that to m- because once a week or once every couple of weeks, it's me and my friends sat around talking about whatever the fuck has happened.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And having that degree of male intimacy and just having a hang and not like h- it doesn't feel like homework. And when you've left, you go, "Did I learn anything? I had a nice time."
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
"I had a nice time."
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And, uh, that's j- it's just like an interesting pivot, and that's kind of where I'm feeling at the moment, that the grindslop, like work until your eyes bleed thing, I don't... Definitely been through that era, but I don't think that more of that is necessarily needed. So anyway, that, I, I don't even know what I'm saying. But-
- VAVittorio Angelone
There's a lot of funny parodies of the sort of grindslop thing of... Is it, is, was his name Doug Baldwin with the tiny little sunglasses?
- CWChris Williamson
He was sat in that seat yesterday.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yo.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- VAVittorio Angelone
Get pissed. Call the police. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs] That's me on the floor. Uh-
- VAVittorio Angelone
He's so funny
- CWChris Williamson
... some of the bits that we did yesterday are fucking unbelievable.
- VAVittorio Angelone
He is so funny.
- CWChris Williamson
You know him and Timmy Nobrake's, uh, they're partners in a lot of things.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Oh, great. Okay, cool.
- 1:44:00 – 1:49:32
Is This the Most Belfast-Coded Threat?
- CWChris Williamson
speaking of that, what's the most Belfast way that anyone's ever threatened you?
- VAVittorio Angelone
Threatened me? I mean, there's like fun, like there's a thing that's happened twice now on the tour, and this doesn't feel like a threat, but it does a little bit. There's a bit in the show where I ask if anyone's from where I'm from, and I talk about, and, and the, the joke is about the naming conventions of like some people don't say Northern Ireland because they don't agree with the fact that it exists.
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- VAVittorio Angelone
Some people say the North of Ireland because they think Ireland should be one-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm
- VAVittorio Angelone
... whole big thing, and that's like a big divide, where Catholics would call it the North of Ireland-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm
- VAVittorio Angelone
... Protestants would call it Northern Ireland.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
That's like a thing.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
So I have jokes about that, and, uh, in those jokes I go, "Oh, have you noticed I haven't named where I'm from?" 'Cause in the first chunk of the show I don't name where I'm from. I say Belfast, but I don't name Northern Ireland as a place. And I say, um, "Oh, have you noticed that I haven't named it?" And it happened in Newcastle upon Tyne, and it happened in Philadelphia.
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- VAVittorio Angelone
Uh, no, it was last night in Nashville. It happened in Nashville and Newcastle, where somebody shouted out the word Trench, which is the street my dad grew up on in West Belfast, which doesn't on the face of it scream threat, but it's a bit like, oh, that's intense.
- CWChris Williamson
How did they know that?
- VAVittorio Angelone
Like their family knows my family. And in a show that's maybe a little bit contentious about Northern Ireland stuff, it's just a bit like, okay, noted.
- CWChris Williamson
Was-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Noted
- CWChris Williamson
... was the threat scarier in Newcastle or Nashville?
- VAVittorio Angelone
I would say Newcastle. That felt a bit more connected to the whole thing. Um, but it feels like I, I was reading, uh, London Falling, Patrick Radden Keefe's new book. Um, you know Patrick Radden Keefe? He wrote Say Nothing. Um, you should read Say, Say Nothing. I think you'd really like it.
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs] Is that a hint?
- VAVittorio Angelone
Um, no. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- VAVittorio Angelone
Shut the fuck up. Um, [laughs] um, and in it he was talking about when he was like interviewing gangsters who were like around this murder that the book's about.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Um, and they would always mention like his kids' names and his like dog's name.
- CWChris Williamson
It's just a little flex.
- VAVittorio Angelone
It's like-
- CWChris Williamson
We know where you're from
- VAVittorio Angelone
... yeah
- 1:49:32 – 1:56:05
How Much Would You Sell Your Leg For?
- CWChris Williamson
That's not fun. What, uh, what do you think is something that Italian families do that British people would, I don't know, consider psychological warfare?
- VAVittorio Angelone
Psychological warfare. I mean, it's maybe... So have you heard like, so Santa has become global, but it wasn't always global like Santa Claus.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Um, like, you know, there was like a weird German one called like the Is it the Krampus or something who, like, eats kids, um, if they're naughty? Like, that's instead of, like, a lump of coal, like, you just get eaten by a sort of weird goblin.
- CWChris Williamson
Reverse Santa Claus.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- VAVittorio Angelone
But I think you do get nice stuff if you're good or maybe you just avoid being eaten. But our version is, I think, a La Befana, and I think I fucked this up, but this is what I was told. Um, where when the wise men were looking to find Jesus, they were knocking on all the doors in Bethlehem, 'cause, like, they looked for under a star, but, like, that's not a good... It's hardly Google Maps, you know what I mean? So they had the vague area that they were supposed to be in but couldn't find him. So they were knocking on doors going, "Oh, we're looking for the Son of God who's to be born," or, like, "who's just been born, and, uh, we're trying to find him." And basically, this old lady, who's, like, sort of an old witch-type character, just tells them to fuck off. But then when they leave, she feels bad, and she's like, "God, if that is, like, if that is the Son of God, like, that's a pretty terrible thing that I've done not to help these guys sort of bestow gifts upon him." So what she does to cover her bases, she was like, "I need to give a gift to the newly born Son of God," but she obviously didn't know where he was, so she gave gifts to all the children in the whole area-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm
- VAVittorio Angelone
... in the hope that one of those would be the newly born Son of God.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- VAVittorio Angelone
So in Belfast growing up, we would go to, like, a community hall with a bouncy castle and sandwiches and all this stuff and, like, have a fun day, and then we would all sit down, and a la- an old lady dressed as a witch would come in and give us all presents. [laughs] Isn't that fucking mad?
- CWChris Williamson
Is that, was that traumatic as a nervous, slightly panicky child?
- VAVittorio Angelone
No, I think I, I was scared by weird things. La Befana, the witch, was absolutely fine. Um, it's the, uh, what's his... Um, I remember I went to Disney World when I was a child, terrified of The Little Mermaid. Burst into tears.
- CWChris Williamson
Of the mermaid herself or Ursula?
- VAVittorio Angelone
I was, like, no, the mermaid herself, like, the lady, like, the actress or whatever. The struggling actress who's playing The Little Mermaid at Disney World.
- CWChris Williamson
Eight hours a day.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, sweating, in, like, a wig, and I think I was just, like, really freaked out that she didn't have legs. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs] You got overwhelmed by the fish lady.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Yeah, yeah. It was just all a bit much for me.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, I remember I went, I went there as well.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And, uh, what was that, what was the elevator? You're gonna do the same thing. I'm terrified of saying the sentence with the name of the thing in it. The elevator that went up and down, and that was the ride. Do you remember this? Tower of Terror. Tower of Terror.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Thank God you're fine.
- CWChris Williamson
I'm glad that it wasn't the tower that was terrifying.
- VAVittorio Angelone
You're fine, you're fine. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- VAVittorio Angelone
You're fine. [laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, I remember I went on that, and someone's thing came loose-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Ah
- 1:56:05 – 1:56:56
Where to Find Vittorio
- CWChris Williamson
Fuck. Vittorio Angelone, ladies and gentlemen. Dude-
- VAVittorio Angelone
Thank you so much for having me. This was a, this was, this was really good fun.
- CWChris Williamson
You were about to say actually.
- VAVittorio Angelone
No.
- CWChris Williamson
Yes, you were.
- VAVittorio Angelone
No.
- CWChris Williamson
Yes, you were. [laughs]
- VAVittorio Angelone
I was gonna say this was actively enjoyable.
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs] Uh, where should people go to check out everything you're doing?
- VAVittorio Angelone
Vittorio Angelone on Instagram. Uh, I'm a, I'm touring stand-up comedy. I don't know when this comes out, but I've got two specials on YouTube. Um, that's probably the best place. I always think, like, it's crazy after a podcast to be like, "Buy a ticket to see me." Watch my shows on YouTube, see if you like that, and then buy a ticket if you fancy it.
- CWChris Williamson
Fuck yeah. Appreciate you, man. All right, until next time, everyone.
- VAVittorio Angelone
Lovely.
- CWChris Williamson
Dude, wasn't that fun?
- VAVittorio Angelone
Super fun. [gentle music]
- CWChris Williamson
Thank you very much for tuning in. If you enjoyed that episode, YouTube knows who you are deeply. It thinks you're gonna like this one even more. Go on, press it.
Episode duration: 1:56:56
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Transcript of episode 07-9w9bZOkQ
