Pushing The Boundaries Of Mental Toughness - Nedd Brockman

1. 0:00 – 8:33

   Nedd’s Most Recent Challenge

   1. CWChris Williamson0:00

      Matt Brockman, welcome to the show.

   2. NBNedd Brockmann0:01

      Hey, bro. How are you, mate?

   3. CWChris Williamson0:02

      Good. Thank you for coming last night.

   4. NBNedd Brockmann0:04

      Thank you for having me. It was, uh, it was a fun night. I didn't know what to expect, as I told you last night. But it was a, uh, I feel like a lot of people felt a lot in that room.

   5. CWChris Williamson0:12

      Mm.

   6. NBNedd Brockmann0:12

      I, when I saw you, it felt like all the energy was on you. Like, it's quite a intense, I think, environment, that stuff. But yeah, it was really cool. I, uh, loved to hear all the questions and the answers. It was great.

   7. CWChris Williamson0:23

      Fuck, yeah. Thank you.

   8. NBNedd Brockmann0:25

      Yeah.

   9. CWChris Williamson0:25

      Talk to me about what you've just finished doing recently. This is the first time we've actually got to sit down on a podcast and talk about it since you completed everything.

   10. NBNedd Brockmann0:32

       Yeah. I'm a bit, a bit traumatized to be honest, so it's a bit, um... It's, it's good, I'm excited to talk about it. It's been, as you said, I've just haven't really chosen to do it because I'm, um... I guess I wanted to process it a bit. But yeah, ran 1,000 miles around a track, uh, in what was hoping to be 10 and a half days, but ended up, uh, a bit longer than that just due to a few, um... Probably being a bit under-ready for it, but still, uh, completed it in 12 and a half days. Fastest person to ever do it since I've been alive, which is a pretty cool stat. Um, I've only been alive for 25 years, so there's a few guys that did it before that, but... Um, yeah, ended up, uh, 130K a day around a 400-meter athletics track for 12 and a half days.

   11. CWChris Williamson1:15

       Why decide to do that particular event?

   12. NBNedd Brockmann1:18

       Um, a culmination of a few things. I, I ran across Australia two years ago, um, and kind of felt this, like, uh, desire to wanna keep doing these things and, and push my body, that, you know, the more discomfort you put yourself through, the better of a person or, you know, more of a person you become. Um, and off the back of that, I knew I wanted to do something every one or two years and, uh, thought about running across the length of the UK. Uh, 'cause I hear a lot of people have done that. Uh, bit too hilly for me, so I chose, uh, stupidly 1,000 miles around a track. Um, and yeah, I didn't really think too much about it. I don't really think too much about these things. I'm, I feel like anyone who takes these on are usually a bit older. They're usually, you know, 45, 50, have done 25, 30 years of running prior. I only started, uh, three and a half, four years ago. Um, so I think my naivety and stubbornness kinda go hand-in-hand. Um, but yeah, then got to, got to the start of this year and went, "Well, I'm gonna do this, gonna lock it in." And I do a lot of stuff with homelessness, um, and wanted to align the two and ended up, yeah, ended up finishing it in 12 and a half days, which throughout the period, throughout that time, I've, I don't think I've ever, um, felt as much pain as I did in that 12 and a half days.

   13. CWChris Williamson2:30

       Talk to me about the training preparation.

   14. NBNedd Brockmann2:33

       Yeah, it was, uh, uh, a lot of people ask that, like the, what's the physical side of things versus what's the mental preparation? I think, you know, obviously, as I said, I didn't get the record, so I didn't, um, probably wasn't physically prepared enough. Uh, but I don't think I will be for another 15, 20 years.

   15. CWChris Williamson2:50

       Mm-hmm.

   16. NBNedd Brockmann2:50

       And that's why-

   17. CWChris Williamson2:51

       Accumulating an awful lot of time and attention to get to that.

   18. NBNedd Brockmann2:53

       Of course, of course.

   19. CWChris Williamson2:54

       Yeah.

   20. NBNedd Brockmann2:54

       And that's like, that's the, the, the game. But I feel like at 25, you're somewhat relatable to younger people and also older people. Um, and it's not really running for me that's the thing. It's just running is the tool I use to feel what I feel. And I have almost an ability to get people to watch, I guess. And so, I can then push what I wanna push by doing that.

   21. CWChris Williamson3:17

       Mm-hmm.

   22. NBNedd Brockmann3:17

       And so, whether that be through helping homelessness or getting people up and moving-

   23. CWChris Williamson3:23

       Yeah.

   24. NBNedd Brockmann3:23

       ... inspired to do something.

   25. CWChris Williamson3:24

       It's like a, a social change organization masquerading as a fitness pursuit.

   26. NBNedd Brockmann3:29

       Exactly. Exactly.

   27. CWChris Williamson3:31

       Yeah.

   28. NBNedd Brockmann3:31

       'Cause I don't, like... Even before the OzRun, right, the run across Australia, I didn't really know why I was doing it. I just wanted to. I wanted, like, I wanted to feel what it would feel like to run across Australia, I wanted to feel like, what it would feel like to run 100K a day. Um, and I'm not willing to just sit back and go, "Oh, I'll wait till the right time," because I think in life there is no right time. I think you just have to start these things. Um, and so, yeah, off the back of that, didn't really know why or what was gonna come of it. And then I saw off the back of the OzRun that there was so many people, uh, just in Oz, I, I guess, that when I was so inspired to run my first marathon or to speak to someone on the street or to whatever it may have been. I was like, "I wanna give people something, like, tangible to be able to put that inspiration into after I-"

   29. CWChris Williamson4:20

       Mm.

   30. NBNedd Brockmann4:20

       "... after I do something." Um, and so off the back of this 1,000-mile run, I wanted to get people allowed to do their own thing as well, so I started, um, Ned's Uncomfortable Challenge, which was like, uh, giving them their own 10-day thing that they can pick and choose to do something hard-
2. 8:33 – 13:17

   Typical Day on the Race

   1. CWChris Williamson8:33

      to get to the start line.

   2. NBNedd Brockmann8:34

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson8:34

      And what's the process? You need to break it down if you're gonna try and do 1,000 over whatever-

   4. NBNedd Brockmann8:39

      Yep.

   5. CWChris Williamson8:39

      ... 10 days. You've got mileage that you're trying to hit per day.

   6. NBNedd Brockmann8:42

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CWChris Williamson8:42

      Talk me through what a typical day was like once the races came around.

   8. NBNedd Brockmann8:45

      Yeah, so the goal, I got, I actually got injured prior to the, to the start. Got eight weeks out, and I had a bit of a shin overload 'cause I, um, I guess probably overdid it a little bit. The strength was up, but the, the Ks, I was trying to hit 200K a week roughly with three big strength training days, and I think I just hit it a little bit. But I was so close to the event that I was like, I've got all these sponsors, this uncomfortable challenge, the fundraising. All these things were there, and I knew I couldn't pull out. So it was like, never a right time. You must do what you said. Let's just try and work out the best way. Um, a lot of physioing, a lot of praying. Uh, not on, not on my knees 'cause they were sore, but...

   9. CWChris Williamson9:25

      (laughs)

   10. NBNedd Brockmann9:26

       And then I, I would, yeah, got to the, got to the start line essentially when had a pretty severe injury from the get-go. Um, and the goal was to run 160 a day for 10 days. Ideally, we knew that wasn't probably gonna go to plan after about day three or four, but that's what we deal with when it happens. Um, got day one, did it in 16 hours. That was kind of the goal. Get, uh, 10K done every hour.

   11. CWChris Williamson9:51

       Mm-hmm.

   12. NBNedd Brockmann9:52

       Um-

   13. CWChris Williamson9:52

       Is that how you tried to break it up?

   14. NBNedd Brockmann9:53

       Yeah. And so each lap I would, each lane, I would do two laps in lane one, two laps in lane two, two laps in lane three, all the way to lane eight.

   15. CWChris Williamson10:01

       Mm.

   16. NBNedd Brockmann10:01

       Come back to lane one.

   17. CWChris Williamson10:03

       Mm.

   18. NBNedd Brockmann10:03

       So that would be 12.8K.

   19. CWChris Williamson10:05

       Oh, because you accumulate a little bit more distance-

   20. NBNedd Brockmann10:08

       Each-

   21. CWChris Williamson10:08

       ... by going out-

   22. NBNedd Brockmann10:09

       Exactly.

   23. CWChris Williamson10:09

       ... to the edge, and it keeps variety, which probably mentally-

   24. NBNedd Brockmann10:12

       Exactly.

   25. CWChris Williamson10:12

       Yeah.

   26. NBNedd Brockmann10:13

       'Cause just doing 4,000 laps of lane one-

   27. CWChris Williamson10:16

       Yep.

   28. NBNedd Brockmann10:16

       ... is like almost completely unachievable in my mind. Where like lane one twice, lane two twice, lane three twice is really-

   29. CWChris Williamson10:25

       Oh yeah, whatever it is, 500 laps of-

   30. NBNedd Brockmann10:27

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.
3. 13:17 – 19:08

   Nedd’s Body State Throughout the Event

   1. CWChris Williamson13:17

      talk me through the degradation of your body and legs across this.

   2. NBNedd Brockmann13:23

      Yeah. I- I felt quite strong up until about day three. Uh, daylight savings changed so we went forward an hour, which really fucked my head up.

   3. CWChris Williamson13:31

      Oh fuck-

   4. NBNedd Brockmann13:32

      So we lost an hour.

   5. CWChris Williamson13:33

      ... you did it across daylight savings.

   6. NBNedd Brockmann13:34

      Yeah, on day, end of day three. So that was like, "Oh no, we've lost an hour," even though we hadn't-

   7. CWChris Williamson13:39

      Yes.

   8. NBNedd Brockmann13:39

      ... obviously. But like-

   9. CWChris Williamson13:40

      It's, it's from the beginning of the 24 hours-

   10. NBNedd Brockmann13:42

       Yes.

   11. CWChris Williamson13:42

       ... to the end of it. But you're using-

   12. NBNedd Brockmann13:44

       Yeah, and I'm like-

   13. CWChris Williamson13:44

       Wow.

   14. NBNedd Brockmann13:44

       ... "No, no, no."

   15. CWChris Williamson13:45

       Yeah.

   16. NBNedd Brockmann13:46

       Um, and the idea behind the, the six 10 hours was I started at 4:00 PM on day one and, um, wanted to go throughout the night so it wasn't as hot, 'cause here on the track, if you get a hot day, it's like five degrees hotter.

   17. CWChris Williamson13:57

       Yep.

   18. NBNedd Brockmann13:57

       And so that, after day one, I slept throughout the day, had like my, my Eight Sleep, had my, um, like the room was blacked out, everything was great.

   19. CWChris Williamson14:05

       Unreal.

   20. NBNedd Brockmann14:06

       Yeah. And then after that I realized, which I'd- I'd tried to do in my training, was like sleep being cooked and your heart rate being up, and how do we get those things down. But, yeah, that, I was that stressed, that built up about this whole event, so like after day one I'm just like, "Oh God, I got another, you know, 900 miles to go." And so after day one, sleep just never came. Like I just couldn't sleep. So as we discussed last night, like sleep is one of if the not the most important thing for recovery, right? And if you can't even get two of it a night, um, i- the wheels are gonna fall off if you like it or not. You can try and tough it out all you like, and I was doing my best to do that, but, um, day five was when I... Actually, I haven't really spoken about this to anyone. I, except for like the immediate crew. I got to the end of day five, uh, or day five, six hours, I'd hit 810 kilometers, so I was over halfway, pretty well on track. Uh, but I wasn't really making decisions very well and I'd started to lose that, like, almost consciousness. Like I wasn't really there with everyone, even though they were right around me. And Mum was like, like she's like, "Do you wanna eat?" I couldn't even work out if I wanted to make the call to eat. Like I wanted someone to say, "You must eat. You must rest. You must drink. You must change your shoes." I just didn't have it in me. And so we, we got to this point where Mum's like, "You either run or go to bed. I'm gonna call. Go to bed." And I went, "Righto, 45 minutes, I'm gonna go to bed 45 minutes." Hopped in bed with my shoes on, clothes on, it's after like a 12-hour day, I'm laying on my bed and I, my heart rate was at like 110. That's me resting. I'm laying there and I just, like I could, you could feel it in my throat, my ears were like pulsing, my eyes were like forcing out of my head and I'm like, "Okay, this could be how I, how I go I reckon." Like genuinely thought this is it. Because like the sleep deprivation thing becomes gnarly, but if you can nap and you can switch it off a little bit, there's like little tricks you can play and, you know, ultra runners do that all the time. But over that kind of period it starts to, I think, go the opposite way and like you start to die. (laughs) Um, and so I'm laying in bed, my throat's like closing up, my nose is bleeding and I go, "Mum, can you just stay out the door? I'm like not sure what's gonna happen here." Like I'm pretty concerned about, like, my health. (laughs) 20 minutes later I'm like freaking out, "Mum! Mum! Mum!" She's like not there. (laughs) She's like left. She's having crisis talks with the team 'cause she's watched me go, "I'm gonna die," and gone, "We need to get him to bed. He needs to sleep and we need to like make sure this..." Because essentially I was trying to get this record so bad. I was like a wounded dog going, "I need to, like, kill or be killed," right? And when you're in that mode, you've done what you've done already to get there, you can't make that decision to say, "Hey guys, we gotta quickly sleep here. This record's gone. It's fine." Um, so Mum comes in and goes, "Get in this wheelchair, I'm walking you to the shower. Get in the shower, you're going to bed." I went, "Okay." So thank fuck for Mum. 'Cause otherwise like I- I don't know what would've happened. I would've gone out there and just tried to death march until I couldn't. And then yeah, ended up getting a bit of a sleep, got about two hours that night and then woke up with a bit of, uh, you know, oomph in my step.

   21. CWChris Williamson17:21

       Mm.

   22. NBNedd Brockmann17:22

       Um, and kind of like a bit of clarity that this is not about a record. You're 25. It's important to go for them. I think shooting and hoping and putting everything into getting it is really important, but I think what you learn about yourself in continuing to finish what you set out to do is 10 times more important than a flag in the ground to say I got it.

   23. CWChris Williamson17:43

       Did you see Ross failed his long distance swim twice-

   24. NBNedd Brockmann17:47

       Yeah.

   25. CWChris Williamson17:47

       ... before he did the one recently in-

   26. NBNedd Brockmann17:50

       In, um, America.

   27. CWChris Williamson17:51

       ... Canada.

   28. NBNedd Brockmann17:51

       Yukon. Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson17:51

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   30. NBNedd Brockmann17:52

       Yeah, sorry.
4. 19:08 – 31:15

   How Lack of Sleep Impacted Nedd

   1. CWChris Williamson19:08

      the sleep deprivation thing while doing these sorts of events, I, uh, I think must be one of the most difficult things. The reason that Ross is so good at what he does is his digestion.

   2. NBNedd Brockmann19:19

      Hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson19:19

      Because he can eat and then be horizontal again. I don't know about you.

   4. NBNedd Brockmann19:23

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CWChris Williamson19:23

      If I eat, I need to be upright for about half an hour.

   6. NBNedd Brockmann19:25

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson19:26

      I need to... Gravity apparently needs to help me digest shit, right?

   8. NBNedd Brockmann19:29

      Yeah, yeah.

   9. CWChris Williamson19:29

      But he can happily chug down, you know, best part of a liter of porridge, piping hot porridge that burns his throat on the way down-

   10. NBNedd Brockmann19:38

       Hmm.

   11. CWChris Williamson19:38

       ... to warm him from the inside-

   12. NBNedd Brockmann19:39

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CWChris Williamson19:39

       ... like a fucking internal, edible hot water bottle.

   14. NBNedd Brockmann19:41

       Yeah.

   15. CWChris Williamson19:42

       And then get back to not only being horizontal, but face down in water, swimming.

   16. NBNedd Brockmann19:46

       Not saying anything.

   17. CWChris Williamson19:46

       Exactly.

   18. NBNedd Brockmann19:47

       Yeah.

   19. CWChris Williamson19:47

       So I wonder if, I wonder if there's a, a person out there who's like an elite sleeper-

   20. NBNedd Brockmann19:53

       Hmm.

   21. CWChris Williamson19:53

       ... who might be a worse runner, who might be a worse lifter, who might be a worse swimmer or whatever.

   22. NBNedd Brockmann19:57

       That could-

   23. CWChris Williamson19:58

       They could win by sleeping.

   24. NBNedd Brockmann20:00

       Yeah.

   25. CWChris Williamson20:00

       They can just (snaps fingers) , the same way Ross can digest at any point, I wonder if there's something that can be done by training sleep more effectively.

   26. NBNedd Brockmann20:07

       Yeah, one of the-

   27. CWChris Williamson20:07

       You know what I mean?

   28. NBNedd Brockmann20:07

       Yeah, 100%. But it's like, yeah. I don't know. I also feel there's like a... Being in that mode of, like, 'cause I, like, I can imagine Ross's brain is quite, like, just constantly, right? But when you're in that deprived sleep state-

   29. CWChris Williamson20:23

       Mm-hmm.

   30. NBNedd Brockmann20:24

       ... I feel like there's a lot more clarity. Not when you're out of it, right? But, like, in that period of, like, there is, there's nothing else that matters other than the task at hand.
5. 31:15 – 42:44

   What the Ultra-Running Community Think of Nedd?

   1. NBNedd Brockmann31:15

   2. CWChris Williamson31:15

      What does the ultra running community think of you?

   3. NBNedd Brockmann31:18

      That's a good question. Um, I wanna dance... No, I'm not gonna dance around this because it's, like, something that's, again, being 25, something I never thought I would've, uh, dealt with as much. Um, there's purists in everything, and I know for a fact that people in boxing and swimming and all those things that take on these events without the, I guess, resume of-

   4. CWChris Williamson31:46

      Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

   5. NBNedd Brockmann31:47

      ... what is supposedly you're supposed to do, uh, in order to attack a 1,000 mile record-

   6. CWChris Williamson31:51

      You're saying that you're the Jake Paul of endurance racing.

   7. NBNedd Brockmann31:54

      There you go. Perfect. Fucking God.

   8. CWChris Williamson31:56

      (laughs)

   9. NBNedd Brockmann31:57

      Don't put that on me.

   10. CWChris Williamson31:59

       He's got a mullet too.

   11. NBNedd Brockmann32:00

       Yeah, yep. Um, yeah, I, I, I was shocked when I first copped a bit of flak for a few things, but I'm always, like even your talk last night, talking about, um... Like, anyone who's spreading negativity, it is funny when you've never copped it that you think they are, they so... "Oh my God, they must be right," because, you know, I'm this, this lack of... This person, I'm, I'm not, uh, capable, but that person, he's, he's got it, he knows. Yeah. That, that person's, uh, assessment of me is, is bang on. Like, all your close people around you tell you I love you, nah, they can't be right. No, you're fine, mate. What you did, no, not a chance. Who know you so well, but then the, the nuffy that said, "Oh, how dare you pause your watch for this amount of time 'cause it doesn't reflect exactly what it is," they, oh yeah, no, he's, he knows me in and out.

   12. CWChris Williamson32:53

       Yeah, it's interesting-

   13. NBNedd Brockmann32:54

       I think we're, we're just so naturally drawn to make sure... I think innately that's us to want people to love us and want people to a-approve us and welcome us with open arms, but-

   14. CWChris Williamson33:06

       So you find the people that don't and work out a way to try and do the thing that will make them love you?

   15. NBNedd Brockmann33:12

       Yeah, I, I th- when I first went through that, I was like, I, I'm like, I'm going, "Oh fuck, well, how do I ma..." You just lose so much of yourself by doing that, like you become the most broad, have no backbone, stand for nothing if you're trying to be general and please everyone.

   16. CWChris Williamson33:27

       Mm-hmm.

   17. NBNedd Brockmann33:28

       So it's, it's good that you have people that don't like you, but if you're yourself and you have those people that violently love you and can't support you enough, uh, like, as long as you can see it for that, and, and exactly as you said, these people are so insecure about themselves and so worried about what people think of them too that they prefer to spit hate and anger. In saying that, in the, in the running world, I would say majority of people accept me and, um, appreciate that what I'm doing is, you know, probably a bit, a bit dumb and not the-

   18. CWChris Williamson34:04

       (laughs)

   19. NBNedd Brockmann34:05

       ... the road to take. But it's also one that I would not change for the world. I would, I would do the OzRun again ten times over at 22 years old to continue to... Like, I, I just want people to, I've alw- I've said it for, like, the last probably three years, any keynote I've done, any speaking to anyone, I want people to live. Like, live, just make the most of it. Stop waiting. Stop getting on your phone. Stop, just go and do the thing you've always wanted to do. Give, so give without wanting anything in return. I think there's a lot of that where it's like people want something from an exchange or want something from doing something. I feel like if you can just give and give your time or energy or a smile or money to someone or to whatever it is, um, that is a very rewarding existence. And then to get uncomfortable. I love the fact that you can intentionally put yourself in really hard scenarios and you'll find out things about yourself that you'll never have learnt unless you did those things. If you did the hard things. Um, and so yeah, live, give, get uncomfortable. That's all I want. That's all my message is. And if I can get people to hear that through what I do, regardless of that being running, swimming, kayaking, rock climbing, whatever I decide to do next, and I'm sure I'll keep ruffling feathers with the purists of the sport who-

   20. CWChris Williamson35:24

       Mm-hmm.

   21. NBNedd Brockmann35:25

       ... can't stand that a sponsor's paying me what they're paying me, or can't stand that I'm getting to speak at these events where they're like, "But it should be this guy 'cause he's, can run this really fast marathon time." It's like, I appreciate that, and those people are incredible. Those, I, I, I could never match it with the elites of the elites in the marathon world or the ultra-marathon world. It might take me years to get there. But I hope that I have a message that people can go, "Yeah, that's cool. I like that. I appreciate that for what he is." And-

   22. CWChris Williamson35:51

       Mm-hmm.

   23. NBNedd Brockmann35:51

       Yeah. I, I don't wanna get that mixed up with me being... I, I've never gone, "I'm the..." I'm just attacking this thing 'cause it's there and I feel like I'm capable of doing it. And-... off the run I did, I, uh, it definitely shows that I am capable. I just have to do the years and years and years. But by the time I'm able to do it, I'll probably wanna do something else, so...

   24. CWChris Williamson36:10

       (laughs)

   25. NBNedd Brockmann36:11

       (laughs)

   26. CWChris Williamson36:12

       Yeah. Do you know Will Goodge?

   27. NBNedd Brockmann36:14

       I do. I do.

   28. CWChris Williamson36:14

       Yeah. So-

   29. NBNedd Brockmann36:15

       He's a, he's a good friend.

   30. CWChris Williamson36:16

       Yeah, so Will, I've known Will for years. And, uh, you know, he did his thing-
6. 42:44 – 51:43

   Being Present in an Experience

   1. CWChris Williamson42:44

      you were saying before, this is something I've been thinking about an awful lot, and especially, you know, I'm here in Australia, I've been on tour. Uh, the first night, I've done three shows very- in very close succession, and each one was the smallest show of this tour and also the biggest show I'd ever done-

   2. NBNedd Brockmann42:59

      Right.

   3. CWChris Williamson42:59

      ... each time. So it was, like, 1,000 people, then 1,700 people-

   4. NBNedd Brockmann43:03

      Cool.

   5. CWChris Williamson43:03

      ... then 200,000 people.

   6. NBNedd Brockmann43:04

      Yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson43:04

      So each one, it s- escalated up. And, um, I, especially at the first show, there was a lot of, like, gripping from me to make sure that I didn't mess up. And it went great, all of the shows went really perfect-

   8. NBNedd Brockmann43:18

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson43:18

      ... uh, you know, I couldn't have asked for them to have gone any better.

   10. NBNedd Brockmann43:20

       How much prep have you done for those? Like, what ... Sorry, I'm obviously-

   11. CWChris Williamson43:23

       No, not at all.

   12. NBNedd Brockmann43:24

       What, like, how long was your preparation for a show of that, like, 'cause you're so refined and so-

   13. CWChris Williamson43:31

       Mm-hmm.

   14. NBNedd Brockmann43:32

       ... uh, clear with what you were-

   15. CWChris Williamson43:34

       For two hours, yeah. (laughs)

   16. NBNedd Brockmann43:35

       Yeah, but incredible. Except for the, um, Arthur Shackleton.

   17. CWChris Williamson43:39

       (laughs) Uh, yeah, I missed Arthur Shackleton. But it's, the problem is, Ernest Shackleton is the guy that did, uh, uh, went across Antarctica, but Alfred Lansing is the guy that wrote the book-

   18. NBNedd Brockmann43:51

       Yes.

   19. CWChris Williamson43:51

       ... Endurance. And I managed to s- split the difference between Ernest Shackleton-

   20. NBNedd Brockmann43:55

       Oh, I liked it.

   21. CWChris Williamson43:56

       ... and fucking ... anyway. So-

   22. NBNedd Brockmann43:57

       Sorry.

   23. CWChris Williamson43:58

       Not at all. Uh, quite a lot of prep.

   24. NBNedd Brockmann44:02

       Yeah.

   25. CWChris Williamson44:02

       Um, you know, I ran half of the show last year maybe 20 times.

   26. NBNedd Brockmann44:07

       Okay.

   27. CWChris Williamson44:07

       I did work in progress shows this year in Austin, so I did the, in front of 40 people, uh, like a comedian would do, working different bits-

   28. NBNedd Brockmann44:14

       Mm-hmm.

   29. CWChris Williamson44:14

       ... and, "What story do I wanna keep in and which story do I wanna get rid of-"

   30. NBNedd Brockmann44:17

       Yeah, yeah.
7. 51:43 – 55:39

   Moving Forward Without a Clear Path

   1. NBNedd Brockmann51:43

      what's your goal with, not necessarily the podcast, but, like, more broadly, when you started, I know it's definitely evolved in what you've... I'm, I'm assuming-

   2. CWChris Williamson51:53

      Mm-hmm.

   3. NBNedd Brockmann51:53

      ... from when you started to now and what your hope with it all. But, like, what is the hope? Where does it s- not end, but where does it go for you with the... 'Cause I, I, like, I'm in this not, uh, I wouldn't say, it's definitely not lonely chapter, but it's like one of those you've kinda got a, an open door mode. You go, "What, where do we go take this?" Because I have an ability to potentially, uh, inspire a heap of people-

   4. CWChris Williamson52:18

      Mm-hmm.

   5. NBNedd Brockmann52:18

      ... or is it, is it to double down on something else? Is it business? Is it whatever?

   6. CWChris Williamson52:23

      Mm-hmm.

   7. NBNedd Brockmann52:23

      Like, how do you, do you just go with it or do you, uh, you have an intention behind where you wanna go or what's the, what's the thing to...

   8. CWChris Williamson52:30

      It's a great question. You know, very few, uh, bits of sympathy are given to people who have lots of options.

   9. NBNedd Brockmann52:37

      Yep.

   10. CWChris Williamson52:37

       Right? Because most people have fewer options than they want. And when somebody says, "Well, there's lots of different directions that I could go down-"

   11. NBNedd Brockmann52:44

       Mm-hmm.

   12. CWChris Williamson52:44

       ... they go, "Oh, what a, what a diff-"

   13. NBNedd Brockmann52:46

       'Cause we also made them through a lot of work, right?

   14. CWChris Williamson52:48

       Of course.

   15. NBNedd Brockmann52:48

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   16. CWChris Williamson52:48

       Of course. But still-

   17. NBNedd Brockmann52:50

       Yeah, I know what you're saying.

   18. CWChris Williamson52:51

       You said it last night. Uh, uh, problems of abundance are always gonna be given less sympathy than ones of scarcity.

   19. NBNedd Brockmann52:55

       Of course.

   20. CWChris Williamson52:55

       Right? Um, so in some ways, you think, "Well, what, what a luxurious position to be in. How great that you've got that." But then on the flip side, you have all of this optionality, which means that you, the pressure is on you to go down-

   21. NBNedd Brockmann53:11

       To make it.

   22. CWChris Williamson53:12

       ... or am I... Uh, is it more virtuous for me to spend all of my time fundraising for homeless people?

   23. NBNedd Brockmann53:15

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   24. CWChris Williamson53:15

       Or is homelessness even the best charity that I should be doing this for?

   25. NBNedd Brockmann53:18

       Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   26. CWChris Williamson53:18

       I could be raising it for a, a more worthy cause.

   27. NBNedd Brockmann53:20

       Yeah.

   28. CWChris Williamson53:20

       Maybe I should be swimming instead of running-

   29. NBNedd Brockmann53:22

       Mm-hmm.

   30. CWChris Williamson53:22

       ... or maybe I should be doing whatever. So in my experience, I've always been bad at long-term planning, and I kind of came out of the productivity bro-
8. 55:39 – 1:03:37

   Chris’s Experience With Bullying

   1. CWChris Williamson55:39

      next year I'm gonna start doing some stuff on bullying interventions.

   2. NBNedd Brockmann55:43

      Cool.

   3. CWChris Williamson55:43

      Um, so I happen to have a couple of friends, uh, Tracy Vinecore, who's the head of the Canadian Anti-Bullying Association.

   4. NBNedd Brockmann55:50

      Right.

   5. CWChris Williamson55:51

      Um, and Tony Volk as well, who's another evidence-based bullying intervention guy. And I really wanna see ... I- I don't know of anybody that's talking about bullying-

   6. NBNedd Brockmann55:59

      Hmm.

   7. CWChris Williamson55:59

      ... very much, like-

   8. NBNedd Brockmann56:00

      As in, like, ch- kids or as in-

   9. CWChris Williamson56:03

      Yes.

   10. NBNedd Brockmann56:03

       Okay.

   11. CWChris Williamson56:03

       So, um, specifically for kids, because most bullying occurs in school. The reason that most bullying occurs in school is that for bullying to happen, you need social networks to ossify for a while. And in the workplace, especially with remote work now-

   12. NBNedd Brockmann56:16

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CWChris Williamson56:18

       ... people come and go from jobs so much, they don't spend that much time in the office around the same people.

   14. NBNedd Brockmann56:22

       Same though.

   15. CWChris Williamson56:22

       But in class, you see the same people every single day-

   16. NBNedd Brockmann56:26

       Yeah.

   17. CWChris Williamson56:26

       ... for five years or for-

   18. NBNedd Brockmann56:27

       Yeah.

   19. CWChris Williamson56:27

       ... 11 years, right?

   20. NBNedd Brockmann56:28

       Yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson56:28

       If you follow them through, like, one big school or whatever.

   22. NBNedd Brockmann56:30

       Yeah, yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson56:30

       So that's how you get locked into these hierarchies-

   24. NBNedd Brockmann56:34

       Environments.

   25. CWChris Williamson56:34

       ... and the pecking orders occur.

   26. NBNedd Brockmann56:35

       Yeah.

   27. CWChris Williamson56:35

       So it's easy to do the intervention there, but really interesting thing, that no one is talking about, and there are interventions for, is, um, helping ex-bullied adults to overcome that bullying. We heard about it last night in some of the Q&As, that some of the people have got chips on their shoulder-

   28. NBNedd Brockmann56:52

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson56:52

       ... about people that didn't believe in them when they were kids or people that were mean to them or whatever in school, and trying to liberate adults-

   30. NBNedd Brockmann57:01

       Hmm.
9. 1:03:37 – 1:09:27

   The Drive to Do the Thing

   1. CWChris Williamson1:03:37

      just linger on that how you're doing the thing, not just doing the thing.

   2. NBNedd Brockmann1:03:42

      Mm.

   3. CWChris Williamson1:03:43

      Um, that you have the opportunity to get the promotion, get the new car, have the marriage, do the whatever.

   4. NBNedd Brockmann1:03:53

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CWChris Williamson1:03:54

      And in retrospect, sure, you will be able to maybe have the photos and all the rest of it, but the only person that could've experienced whatever it is that you're going through, the only person that could've been on that track that was gonna do all of those laps and all of those miles was you.

   6. NBNedd Brockmann1:04:05

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CWChris Williamson1:04:05

      The only person that was gonna run across Australia or was gonna swim around the UK or was gonna run across America or the fucking length of Africa.

   8. NBNedd Brockmann1:04:10

      Mm.

   9. CWChris Williamson1:04:11

      You go... Anybody can watch the videos.

   10. NBNedd Brockmann1:04:14

       Mm-hmm.

   11. CWChris Williamson1:04:14

       Even you can watch the videos of you, but only you gets to experience what it's like to do that.

   12. NBNedd Brockmann1:04:19

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CWChris Williamson1:04:19

       And it's this odd blend between do you want to be the absolute best in the world at a thing, which I do think can cause you to need... It, if you wanna be the best, all sacrifices are on the table.

   14. NBNedd Brockmann1:04:34

       Go on.

   15. CWChris Williamson1:04:34

       Everything. Fucking health-

   16. NBNedd Brockmann1:04:36

       Yeah, you can't. You can't.

   17. CWChris Williamson1:04:37

       ... life.

   18. NBNedd Brockmann1:04:37

       No, no, no.

   19. CWChris Williamson1:04:37

       Uh, uh, enjoyment of the event.

   20. NBNedd Brockmann1:04:40

       Relationships. Go on.

   21. CWChris Williamson1:04:41

       Relationships. Yep, exactly. Family, bank accounts, reputation.

   22. NBNedd Brockmann1:04:44

       Mm-hmm.

   23. CWChris Williamson1:04:44

       Everything, right?

   24. NBNedd Brockmann1:04:45

       Yeah. This one thing.

   25. CWChris Williamson1:04:46

       But if you are doing something for not being the fastest in the world, if it's not a sports competition or it's not a zero sum game where there's only one winner and you want to just be that one winner...

   26. NBNedd Brockmann1:04:57

       Mm.

   27. CWChris Williamson1:04:58

       ... I feel like there's a little bit of tolerance, just a bit of give at the top.

   28. NBNedd Brockmann1:05:02

       Mm.

   29. CWChris Williamson1:05:02

       And it's like, where can I sneak in something there?

   30. NBNedd Brockmann1:05:05

       Yeah.
10. 1:09:27 – 1:15:13

    PTSD After a Race

    1. CWChris Williamson1:09:27

       the PTSD.

    2. NBNedd Brockmann1:09:28

       Mm-hmm.

    3. CWChris Williamson1:09:29

       Talk me through, you've... We've got up to the end of the race now.

    4. NBNedd Brockmann1:09:32

       Yep.

    5. CWChris Williamson1:09:32

       Finishing, at least punching the, uh, sh- fucking thing was a little bit angry.

    6. NBNedd Brockmann1:09:37

       Yep.

    7. CWChris Williamson1:09:38

       Recovery, next few days.

    8. NBNedd Brockmann1:09:40

       Mm-hmm.

    9. CWChris Williamson1:09:41

       S- psychologically, physically, all the rest of the stuff.

    10. NBNedd Brockmann1:09:43

        Yep.

    11. CWChris Williamson1:09:43

        What was that like?

    12. NBNedd Brockmann1:09:44

        I, uh, I drove home from the track, so I'd been at whole 26 hours, because my old man is farmer, like through and through. He's... Like, we, we live six hours from him, the, the family farm, and he has no idea about directions around the city. And I'm, like, wheeling in my wheelchair up to my, up to my ute, hop in. He starts going to the driver's seat. I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no." I hop in. I just knew he'd ask me for fricking directions the whole way home. (laughs) So I was like, "I'm driving." Turned AC/DC on and drove home. Um, I got-

Episode duration: 1:31:42