RYAN FISCHER | The Life Story | Modern Wisdom Podcast 141

Ryan Fischer 0:00 ... so I, like, gained the respect of everybody in the gym, everybody started to love me. And after that month, my mom was like, "You know, I'm not going to help you anymore. Like, there's really, there's no need for me to help you. You need to figure your life out and I really think you should go back to school. I think you should give up on this whole CrossFit thing." So man, I had a lot to think about. And I think what really started to happen was I just was running out of money and I didn't know what to do anymore, so I had to come to grips with my friends and tell them, like, "Hey, I don't have any money, and I might have to drive all the way home to New Jersey, to my mom's house, go back to school, and do something that I potentially don't even want to do." So, there was this girl, she's like, "You know what? You can sleep on my couch if you want for as long as you need to get on your feet." But I had never talked to this girl in my life. And I originally turned it down, and then got to the point where I had to move all my stuff out of my house that I was living in, and I sold all my stuff, and I had slept in my car for, like, a week. And I was like, "I can't do this. This doesn't feel right," you know? So during that week actually is when I started to steal. I started stealing, uh, like food, and groceries, and stuff from the grocery store 'cause I wanted to stay and I didn't have any money.

Chris Williamson 1:01 Ryan Fisher in the building. How are you, man?

Ryan Fischer 1:05 (laughs) Super excited. It's been, it's been a long time coming. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 1:08 It's been a very long time coming. Me and you have missed each other, like, three different times, timezone problems, but I've got you, I've locked you down. How's the bicep? How's the injury?

Ryan Fischer 1:16 Oh. Well, actually that is coming along. I have, like, maybe three more weeks until I can kind of cut loose. But right now it's been, whoo, it's been one hell of an experience. I've never had to stay so diligent about something for so long. Like, I've, I've literally had to, like, do nothing for two months, and then after that it's been very, very light weights for the last, like, month. And I'm just, like, dying to get after it again.

Chris Williamson 1:41 (laughs) Yeah. I bet.

Ryan Fischer 1:42 But I think it was... I think it's been good for me though, 'cause I've been, I've been getting after it for such a long time, that to have a little bit of a break is probably good.

Chris Williamson 1:49 You've probably given other bits of your body a rest as well.

Ryan Fischer 1:52 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:53 Yeah. Um, it's interesting, I've had a little bit of an injury as well, and one thing that was a question that's come through in my mind was W- who are you without your fitness? You know, without that endorphin kick every single day. It's like being on a drug for all your life and someone taking it away.

Ryan Fischer 2:07 For me, it was more like my whole life is fitness in terms of, like, my business and, like, things that I sell and everything, and, like, I feel like me looking good is part of all of that, and just, like, it kind of gave me a little bit of stress and anxiety. And then I was like, "Well, wait a second. Like, all the stuff that you've made you've, you've already made." (laughs) You don't, like, need to currently look amazing in this exact moment. And then, like, there's other things that you want to do that have nothing to do with that, and I've spent this entire time kind of focusing on those things, and I don't think I would have gotten as far into some of these other projects that I have if it wasn't for the injury.

Chris Williamson 2:43 It's a good way to kind of force fitness out of your life for a little bit and give you, give you time to focus on other stuff, right?

Ryan Fischer 2:51 Yeah. For sure.

Chris Williamson 2:52 Cool, man. So first off, how, how would you describe what you do? If someone says, "Hey, hey friend. I've met you at a, at, uh, an event."

Ryan Fischer 2:59 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 2:59 What do you... So tell me who you are. What do you do?

Ryan Fischer 3:02 That's funny because I get that question a lot, 'cause everybody knows that I do a lot of things. So I'm always like, "Shit."

Chris Williamson 3:08 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 3:08 I guess I would tell... I guess I'd tell everybody that... I guess the short part would say I'm a fitness entrepreneur, but usually I say I own a bunch of fitness companies and I own a social media agency. That's usually what I say. So, I do have books that I sell that do very, very well, so there's... Like, there's probably, like, almost 10 different books that I sell, like, daily. And then I have my Earn Your Carbs challenge, which is... It used to be the Carb Cycle Challenge, and then the Keto Cycle Challenge, and now I'm just turning it all into just the Earn Your Carbs Challenge, and you get to pick which way you want to go. So if you like high fat diets, then Keto Cycle is the way to go. If you like high carbs, then Keto... or the Carb Cycle is the way to go. And you just pick it, and I get these people in a group on Facebook, we do live Q&As together, they get all this information. I've created a website that you put in your daily energy expenditure, and all the numbers and stuff pop up. It's custom to, to me. And then they get books, and workouts, and all sorts of stuff, and it's, it's this, it's this big thing that I just did for fun for my gym, and I would post them on social media, on my CrossFit Chalk Instagram, 'cause that was my first gym was my CrossFit gym. And people were like, "I want to do this challenge. It looks really good." And I was like, "All right. Well, why don't you Venmo me or PayPal me."

Chris Williamson 4:25 Mm-hmm.

Ryan Fischer 4:25 And then all of a sudden, like, all these people were Venmowing and PayPaling me, and I was... I couldn't keep up with it. I started to... I'd be sitting home on my phone and I'd be like, "Oh my God, well this person..." And I'd have to let him into the group. And before I knew it, I'd be on my phone all day for like $2,000 bucks for the month or something, and I'd be like, "Man, I... There's got to be a better way to do this." So eventually I started to figure out a better way to do that, and now the challenge is it's a little bit easier to purchase and a little bit easier to manage.

Chris Williamson 4:51 Mm-hmm.

Ryan Fischer 4:52 But as I got better at that, I realized that there was a better way to sell your products as well, and I got into, like, social media kind of marketing. And then from there, um, I just created the marketing agency that kind of helped me in the beginning. I had all those people quit their job, and then we kind of just did it for other people.

Chris Williamson 5:09 Yeah.

Ryan Fischer 5:10 So now a lot of my really good friends who are, like, kind of big in the fitness industry, I run all their ads for them and I just take a percentage of that, of the sales, so that everybody seems to want to work really, really hard to get that person to make money. So in short... (laughs)

Chris Williamson 5:24 A lot. (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 5:24 I cre- I created that agency basically to help other people, uh, and then I have my stuff that's all helping at the same time, and then I run my gym. I r- I run my... I, I, um, I live here in Orange County, California, and I run my gym every day.

Chris Williamson 5:36 Yeah.

Ryan Fischer 5:37 And I run the Instagram. I run the Instagrams for both.

Chris Williamson 5:40 D- is that still you?

Ryan Fischer 5:41 And

Narrator 5:41 ... and it'll be

5:42 Nope.

Chris Williamson 5:42 You haven't outsourced the Instagram to anyone else?

Ryan Fischer 5:44 Nope.

Chris Williamson 5:45 Wow. It's... You know, you get to your sort of size of, of kind of workload, and sometimes you've got the, the social media assistant you dictate across the room, they put the post up or whatever.

Ryan Fischer 5:55 I have, I have someone who does, like, stories for, uh, CrossFit Chalk and then they'll answer some of the DMs, but I always make the post.

Chris Williamson 6:04 ... that's an interesting takeaway for gym owners. There'll be a lot of gym owners listening, a lot of athletes listening, people who maybe have aspirations to own their own facility eventually. And, um, it's interesting that you've, you've held onto that, the sense of connection between you and marketing.

Ryan Fischer 6:20 So, with, with the posts for the gym, they're so important to me because what you say is going to resonate with somebody on some level. You might say something ... Like, sometimes I'll talk about, like, why we do hip thrusts, and I don't think that my person that works the desk can, you know, really talk about hip thrusts in like, in a way that makes people want to do hip thrusts. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 6:40 I don't think anyone can talk about hip thrusts in a way that makes anyone want to do hip thrusts.

Ryan Fischer 6:44 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 6:44 That's single ... Like split squats, man. No one wants to do split squats.

Ryan Fischer 6:47 Yeah. (laughs) But then I'll also write like, well, hey, like, if you, you know, do you follow CrossFit? Do you follow Chalk online programming or whatever? If you don't, then, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And like, I don't think anyone's going to want to take, you know, pride and initiative into saying these little things that kind of hook people in.

Chris Williamson 7:03 Mm-hmm.

Ryan Fischer 7:04 So I always do the post. And there's definitely days that go by where I'm just like, I'm so fried on my own Instagram, that I just don't even do a post. It happens, for sure. I don't think I made one yesterday. My own Instagram is a beast, so it's like, I'll answer at least 100 DMs a day. I have, I always do a post no matter what, I always do my stories. No one's ever answered a DM in my, in my Instagram.

Chris Williamson 7:28 Mm. I mean, that's how we connected, right? You know, I'm hustling, you slide into the DMs and we finally get the date right for this, so ... Yeah, I've got a, I've got a friend, George McGill, who talks about that. He says the barbell strategy for certain things, like all in or all out for a lot of things. Get the people that do the stuff that you're bad at to take that over and then continue to double down. Um, so yeah, I, what I want to do, I want to get, I want to have the definitive guide to Ryan Fisher's life. Right?

Ryan Fischer 7:51 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 7:51 I want anyone that follows you online, and for the people who don't, you have an interesting, very interesting background. Um, and you hear these stories on your Insta or social media or whatever, little separate bits, little chunks. And that obviously sort of ties people in, but I want to hear, I want the full monty, right? I want start to finish.

Ryan Fischer 8:09 Oh. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 8:09 Tell us how we, tell us how we get to you being sat here in front of me in Orange County.

Ryan Fischer 8:14 How, where do you want to start?

Chris Williamson 8:16 Let's start at childhood, man. Where are you from?

Ryan Fischer 8:18 Oh, shit, all right. Cool. Um, this might take a while, by the way, for your listeners, but-

Chris Williamson 8:22 It's fine, man. It's what we're here for.

Ryan Fischer 8:24 But I'm good for it. (clears throat) So, childhood, I lived in Toms River, New Jersey. It's a little beach town, central part of New Jersey, all the way on the East Coast. It's obviously a lot farther away than I am right now. And as I grew up, I ... Well, this is actually part of the story, is I, I always felt like there was something wrong with me in my family. Like, I, I grew up in a big family. I had, you know, I have, I have five brothers and sisters that I lived with in a house, but then I have three other sisters from my dad's side. (clears throat) None of us have the same two parents at any point. I didn't know that, like, realistically until I was like 18. And then I found out who my dad was when I was 18, and then I met him when I was 24. (laughs) And when I actually met him, it made a lot of things in my life, you know ... Make me understand a lot of things. Like, I, I genuinely as a kid was like, "I don't get it. I, I don't know why I'm here." Like, I would feel like I'd wake up in the wrong family every single day.

Chris Williamson 9:26 Black sheep.

Ryan Fischer 9:27 It was such a strange feeling, and it took until I was 24 to figure out why I felt that way. And basically, as I grew up, I was always just like a fucking madman. Like, I wanted to ... I, my mom bought me a bike one year for Christmas, and I just never put it down. Like, I would ride everywhere. Like, I remember getting, like, flat tires on my bike and having to call my mom, and I, at the time, I had this giant monstrosity of a phone.

Chris Williamson 9:50 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 9:50 And it was like ... It was, it was a prepaid phone, and I had like 10 minutes on it, and I'd call my mom, and I'd be like, "Hey, I'm all the way out here. I need you to pick me up. I got a flat tire." And she'd be like, "That's like a 35-minute car ride," which like on a, on a bike would just-

Chris Williamson 10:04 About 20 miles or something.

Ryan Fischer 10:06 ... on a bike would be like, you know, super far.

Chris Williamson 10:09 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 10:09 And then, um, she'd come get me and be like, "What is wrong with you? Like, you're 12. You're not allowed to ride your bike this far." And then (laughs) I started to like really get into it. And then my mom was like, "Well, maybe we should look into ... He's obviously really good at riding his bike." So I started like BMX racing, and that was like my first, my first, like, addictive sport that I ever did. And I, I raced all over. I was, um, I was number 15 in the country most years. That was like my 10 to 15 range. And then one year, I was number one, and then I had to go to Australia for World Championships but nobody in my family really like flew. They were all kind of scared of flying, so I never went.

Chris Williamson 10:46 Oh, man. What a shame.

Ryan Fischer 10:48 But even just forfeiting, like, to go to the World Championships, I still got ... I was like 35th in the world that year, which is pretty cool.

Chris Williamson 10:53 Fuck.

Ryan Fischer 10:54 And then into high school, I transferred, like all that riding and stuff kind of transferred into, you know, I had some pretty good cardio, so I started running track and cross-country. I also played football, I played lacrosse. I did all the sports, but nothing really ... I didn't really love anything to the point where it like, really likes, you know, sweep me off my feet. I did like track a lot, but I had a coach who he ran us so much that, like, I, I wound up getting kind of like a little bit of knee pain, and it was a lot. I was running like 80 to 100 miles a week as a young kid, which is a lot. I don't know if you know what that is in, probably kilometers for you. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 11:29 No, no, no. We're, we're miles as well, man. That's the only thing.

Ryan Fischer 11:32 Oh, cool.

Chris Williamson 11:32 You're on the wrong side of the road. You're using Fahrenheit instead of Celsius, but I'll stick to the fact that you know that miles is miles, right?

Ryan Fischer 11:38 (laughs) That's good. All right. So from there, um, I wound up thinking I was going to go be a pilot someday. After all the sports and everything. I, I actually got a really good scholarship to run at an Ivy League school, which is Cornell University, if you, if you know who they are. And I turned it down 'cause I was kind of over running. So then I was like, all right, I'm going to go be a pilot. That sounds cool. It sounds fun. It's right up my alley, you know. I was kind of adventure, kind of junky.

Chris Williamson 12:06 Military? Military pilot or like commercial stuff?

Ryan Fischer 12:09 ... c- commercial stuff. So, I actually moved to s- as soon as school was over, you know, obviously I didn't really like the way I felt in my family, so I went as far away as possible. I lived in New Jersey and I f- lived in Hawaii. So-

Chris Williamson 12:20 That is a, that is (laughs) as far away as you can get, yeah.

Ryan Fischer 12:23 (laughs) I got far away. I went to pilot school. I got my helicopter license. That was my first, first job. So, I was a helicopter pilot. And I kind of missed, like, doing other things. Like I missed, like, working out and I, I missed that, that feeling. So, one day I was actually just walking through the dorms where I was living for s- 'cause I was going to school as well, and there was a sign that said, you know, tryouts for bobsled and skeleton for the US Olympic team or whatever.

Chris Williamson 12:55 In Hawaii?

Ryan Fischer 12:56 In Hawaii. So they, Verizon, the phone company, they were going to every single state, all 50 states trying to recruit people.

Chris Williamson 13:03 Shit.

Ryan Fischer 13:04 And, and I see this sign and I was like, "Man, that would be sweet." You know? Uh, so I was like, I just decided that I was just going to go to tryouts and see how I did. And I went to the tryouts and I got like third in the nation.

Chris Williamson 13:17 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 13:17 So it was-

Chris Williamson 13:19 Having never-

Ryan Fischer 13:19 ... it was kind of like-

Chris Williamson 13:19 ... having never bobsledded before?

Ryan Fischer 13:22 No. But the, the, the combine was a three rep max back squat.

Chris Williamson 13:27 Okay. Yeah.

Ryan Fischer 13:27 A one r- a one rep max power clean, a vertical jump. There was a sprint where they had timing eyes and it would, it would be 15 meters, 30 meters, and 45. And then there was an underhand like medicine ball toss.

Chris Williamson 13:43 Oh, wow.

Ryan Fischer 13:43 So like out of all the numbers, I had these crazy scores. I didn't even have any idea that I was, you know, even when it was all said and done, I was like, "Is that good?" And they're like, "Dude, those numbers are insane." So, before I knew it, like within like six months, I'd flown out to Utah and lived in Utah for about five years, and then actually made it all the way up to like potentially being on the Olympic team and I hurt my hamstring and I never went to the Olympics.

Chris Williamson 14:10 Fuck.

Ryan Fischer 14:11 I know. It was-

Chris Williamson 14:11 So, that's, that's-

Ryan Fischer 14:12 ... stupid.

Chris Williamson 14:12 ... twice now that you've got essentially next to the top fl- how old are you here? Like 22? Is that the age?

Ryan Fischer 14:18 Yeah. R- right around there.

Chris Williamson 14:19 Cool. So th- by the age of 22, you've got to the top flight in two different sports, two very different sports. One's on ice, one's on a bike. Um, and both times through kind of no real error or inability on your part, you've just kind of fallen short.

Ryan Fischer 14:36 Oh, well, that transfers over again when I go to CrossFit. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 14:38 I know. I know.

Ryan Fischer 14:40 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 14:41 There's a theme. There's a theme happening here.

Ryan Fischer 14:45 Um, so yeah, like-

Chris Williamson 14:46 What was your time-

Ryan Fischer 14:47 ... I eventually get to-

Chris Williamson 14:47 What, what was your time like in Utah? Did you enjoy it there?

Ryan Fischer 14:50 I actually hated it. Like-

Chris Williamson 14:52 Why? Why?

Ryan Fischer 14:53 ... the entire time I lived there, I was like, "This is so boring. Um, there's really nothing to do here." I lived in Park City, which is a very small town up in the mountains.

Chris Williamson 15:01 Loads of Mormons.

Ryan Fischer 15:02 And I, yep. I mean, you can definitely feel the Mormon influence, but, you know, funny story is I didn't even know what a Mormon was. (clears throat) S- one of the guys on my team was like, we were, we were training together, he was a, I started as a skeleton athlete, so head first.

Chris Williamson 15:19 Fuck. That's the, that's the real scary one, man.

Ryan Fischer 15:21 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 15:21 That's the balls to the wall one.

Ryan Fischer 15:23 I wasn't big enough for bobsled yet. I was only like 165 pounds.

Chris Williamson 15:27 Okay.

Ryan Fischer 15:28 160, 165 pounds. I was pretty small at the time. A- and the o- only thing I qualified for was skeleton at that time. So, in the beginning, I started at skeleton camp and was with these kids who all did skeleton. And this one kid who was really, really good, he was telling me how he was gonna go on a mission. And he's like, "Hey, I'm going on a mission and I, I'll be ba- I'm gonna be back, I'll be gone for like two years." And I was like, "A mission? Like, are you going in the Marines?"

Chris Williamson 15:52 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 15:52 And then-

Chris Williamson 15:53 You and Tom Cruise? (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 15:55 (laughs) And he's like, "No, I'm Mormon." I was like, "Yeah, but a mission is like military stuff, right?" And th- and he's like, "No." He's like, "Do you know where you are right now?" And I was like, "No. I have no idea."

Chris Williamson 16:05 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 16:06 And then he tells me like what Mormon people are. 'Cause I had, dude, I had no i- thank God he told me, though, 'cause I went on some dates with some girls where it made a lot of sense.

Chris Williamson 16:13 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ryan Fischer 16:14 So, (laughs) um, so after all that, where am I now? So I'm in, I'm in Utah. Yeah. And then as I get older, now I look back and I'm like, "Man, I r- I really messed it up." Because Utah's a really cool place. There's all these hikes to do that I'm into now and all these great places to see. And it's, it's, it's an amazing place actually. And at the time, I just, I was one of those people who was like 1000% into something and didn't care about anything else.

Chris Williamson 16:44 Mm-hmm.

Ryan Fischer 16:45 And I look back now and I see the younger version of myself in my gym. The manager of my gym right now, this girl Summer, she's just, she's so into CrossFit. It's the only thing that matters and nothing else matters. And I get that. Like, I was there for everything I've ever done. And I just think, I'm like, "Man, if, if you'd have just brought in a little bit more flexibility into your life, like you just liked a few other things, I think you'd be better." Because there's years of my life that I almost don't even remember because I was so strict on my life. Like, I didn't go out. I only ate this. I only went to bed at this time. Like, I always worked out. Like, everything was so structured and I didn't even care about anything else. I was like, "I don't give a fuck. I'm just gonna be a machine until I just win everything."

Chris Williamson 17:25 Mm.

Ryan Fischer 17:26 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 17:26 Isn't it interesting? So, (clears throat) we love athletes that are at the peak of their sport, right? You look at someone like Eddie Hall, world's strongest man, but he was adamant that if he'd kept going for a couple of years, he'd have been divorced from his wife and probably dead from a heart attack. But as th- the people for whom sport is everything they've got or everything they want, they have to make those sacrifices because if they don't, you'll get out-competed by the Eddie Hall of bobsled or the Eddie Hall of like skeleton or whatever. But you are right. Like, when you look back, the benefit of 20/20 vision in hindsight is that you can always think, "Fuck, if I'd sacrificed 2% of that, I could have benefited maybe 20% of life." I could have gone, gone done a, a hike. I have a friend who, who lives in Utah, and out of her front door, I saw this video and it's just normal, total normal neighborhood, but the background's just mountains like s- some Lord of the Rings shit. And I'm like-

Ryan Fischer 18:18 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 18:19 ... "That looks so amazing." But obviously for you-

Ryan Fischer 18:21 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 18:21 ... you were like, "No. Head down. Crack on." And that's the sacrifice-

Ryan Fischer 18:23 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 18:23 ... you've got to make. But like you say, with, with hindsight, it's more challenging.

Ryan Fischer 18:27 Yeah. It's-... I look back and I'm like, "I really wasted some years for sure." (clears throat) But, I mean, it, it, and for me at the time, I would, I would tell you that I was happy and I was, you know, I was doing what I, what I loved to do.

Chris Williamson 18:38 Mm-hmm.

Ryan Fischer 18:38 And that's really the, the, the trade-off.

Chris Williamson 18:40 I wonder as well, if you'd changed that, whether you would have been happy. You now, in that life, might have been happy with the change-up, but you then didn't want it at all, or you'd have done it. Do you know what I mean?

Ryan Fischer 18:52 No, I don't think I would have. I think I, I probably would have been miserable. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 18:55 Yeah.

Ryan Fischer 18:56 I would have been like, "You're taking me out of what I think is best for me right now."

Chris Williamson 18:59 "Fuck you, older Ryan. Younger Ryan knows what he's doing."

Ryan Fischer 19:02 Yeah. (laughs) There's, there's such a different definition of what happy is now, it's, it's unreal.

Chris Williamson 19:06 Mm.

Ryan Fischer 19:07 (laughs) So, I guess from there, I start to realize that, you know, I don't wanna do this again for another four years, right? The Olympic, nobody gives a shit about my sport until the Olympic year. Even World Championships is like the exact same thing as the Olympics and people don't realize this but, like, the World Championships that happen every year for skeleton bobsled, skiing, snowboarding, everything, is the same thing as the Olympic year. It's just that you don't have the whole world watching. And for us, for the sliding sports we like to call them, skeleton, bobsled luge, nobody was there for World Championships. Nobody was there for the national events, like none of that stuff. So, there was really no allure during, during that time. So, to stick it out for another four years to potentially get to that moment and potentially get injured again or something, was very scary to me. And I was like, "No, let's maybe just like go into the military t- you know, to go be a pilot like I r- originally wanted to do or I'll do something else. Like now that I'm a, you know, this really great athlete, maybe I'll,

Ryan Fischer 20:07 maybe I'll do like Special Forces or something like that. Just because to be, uh, in a helicopter doesn't seem like it's probably best suited for me at this moment." So, I started looking into all the Special Forces branches, like the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, all this stuff, and a friend of mine had said, you know, "You should really try doing CrossFit. I think that it's a great training tool for anybody going in the military. Even if you're gonna go in to be a pilot, you still have to get through boot camp and stuff, and it'd be great to have this under your belt." So, I, I walk into a CrossFit gym and the owner of the gym, his name is Tommy Hackenbruck, if you know who this is?

Chris Williamson 20:39 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Ryan Fischer 20:41 The year I walk into his gym, he had just gotten second place at the CrossFit Games. So, I didn't know who he was, but as I walked in, I saw his eyes lock on me and he was like, "Oh, this guy."

Chris Williamson 20:51 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 20:51 Like, he could just tell 'cause I was like really, really fit from bobsled and I think I was like almost, I was almost like 200 pounds at the time and just jacked. And my entire CrossFit career, I've been probably 175 to 180 pounds, so I was a lot bigger than I, than I am now. And I remember walking in and he, he saw me and we had this intro class together where he gives me like a ... we just do like a pretty basic workout and there's five other people that are there for this basic workout as well. And af- after the workout, I remember he's just looking at me and he's like, "Dude, I need someone like you to train with." And I'm like, "Well, I don't know how to do any of this stuff. I'm just here 'cause I heard that this was gonna be cool. I wanted to go in the military." And he's like, "Well, you know, if, if you agree to come at like certain times, like when I train, you don't have to pay for a membership and, you know, you could help me train for events, and I think that, I think this might be something you really like."

Chris Williamson 21:51 Is this in Utah?

Ryan Fischer 21:52 This is in Utah.

Chris Williamson 21:53 Yep.

Ryan Fischer 21:53 In Salt Lake City.

Chris Williamson 21:54 Got you.

Ryan Fischer 21:55 So, I decided I was no longer gonna do bobsled anymore and I moved from Park City to Salt Lake City, which is like 30 minutes down a giant mountain. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 22:05 (laughs) That's the most-

Ryan Fischer 22:05 And then-

Chris Williamson 22:05 ... that's the most, like, Utah, uh, direction ever. It's like, "Go 30 minutes-"

Ryan Fischer 22:09 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 22:09 "... down the mountain, you will find the city."

Ryan Fischer 22:11 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 22:12 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 22:13 So, the city was there, and I'm living in the city and I'm, and I'm finishing my degree at the university and I go to this gym and I meet him. So then, we just start training all the time and probably within a few months, I had articles about me all over the place, that I was like this freak athlete and everybody was excited to see me go to regionals and excited to see me go to the games. And you can look up old articles, I was like the dark horse athlete and all this stuff. And it kinda gave me a big head. I was like, "Oh, yeah, I'm gonna fucking crush this sport," you know? So, I went to my first regional which would have been, had I gotten top three, I would have went to the CrossFit Games. And it was almost like everybody was like, "Oh, Ryan's definitely getting top three." And I went and I got like 14th because I had absolutely no idea how to compete. Like, I was insanely good, but I had no idea what I was doing. Like, handstand push-ups for instance, you had to flip up on the wall-

Chris Williamson 23:07 Mm-hmm.

Ryan Fischer 23:07 ... and do a handstand push-up, you know, with your butt casing the wall. And I would lay on my stomach and walk my stomach to the wall and then do handstand push-ups-

Chris Williamson 23:16 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 23:18 ... because I was too scared. I was too scared to flip. I had never done that yet.

Chris Williamson 23:22 Okay, yeah.

Ryan Fischer 23:23 And I saw, I saw the workout and the first workout that really screwed me for the whole thing was, it was 1,000-meter run, 30 handstand push-ups, 1,000-meter route. That's it.

Chris Williamson 23:32 Pretty simple.

Ryan Fischer 23:32 Which is such an easy, such an easy event now. People would kill that. Now it would be like 100 handstand push-ups and then 1,000-meter route. So, I get on the, the wall and I walk myself up and start doing handstands and the guy's like, "Dude, no fucking rep." Like, "What the fuck is this?"

Chris Williamson 23:48 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 23:48 So, I'm... He's like, "You have to flip up," and I'm like, dude, I'm like terrified. So like, I, I tried to flip up, you know? I, I had done it at the gym a few times and I just never liked the feeling, but I got it done. And after that event, I knew I was basically fucked. So now, now I should just have fun and, and just enjoy the moment. And then after that, I was like, "Well, fuck this." Like, I'm, "Fuck the whole military thing. I re- I have to come back and I have to own this," you know? So, the next year, I came back to regionals and I got fourth place. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 24:20 Oh, shit. Was this outside?

Ryan Fischer 24:22 Won outside of the games, and it was because of-

Chris Williamson 24:24 Which, um, which, what regional is Utah?

Ryan Fischer 24:27 Uh, it was Southwest at the time.... that was the regional. But then I moved to California, because in my head-

Chris Williamson 24:35 After that s- after that second year?

Ryan Fischer 24:36 After that first regional, I moved to California.

Chris Williamson 24:38 Okay.

Ryan Fischer 24:40 So I moved to California because I figured no matter how the next year went in CrossFit or whatever, I still wanted to go into the military. So all the Navy SEALs and stuff were training in San Diego, in California. So I moved to San Diego to train with military guys. And then during that time, I kept tr- I kept doing my training for regionals and I got a job at a CrossFit gym. So I moved out to San Diego, I start training, and I go to the regionals and I wound up getting fourth place, (laughs) which sucked. And the whole reason I got fourth, uh, fourth place for this particular event, I got top five in every single event at regionals. I would have destroyed regionals. But one of the events I got like 24th place because I didn't, I didn't know how to do a hang clean. (laughs) Like I had done power cleans and shit like in my training, but like doing hang power cleans with 225 pounds to me was like devastating. 'Cause we had to do 30 of them in a workout and I like could not hang onto the bar. So everybody was doing like sets of two to five reps at a time. And I was doing like one at a time. So I wound up getting fourth place and I was like, "Oh my God."

Chris Williamson 25:47 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 25:48 I was like, "Fuck this," you know? So (laughs) after this time, after that, that year, that's when things like really start to change for me. This is when I really start to figure out who I'm going to be and what my future is going to be. Because after regionals, obviously I wanted to be a complete maniac and just be the most diligent person you've ever seen in your life and just crush everything. But I was having problems at work and I hated the gym that I worked at. The girl who owned it was running it more like a bootcamp than a CrossFit gym. And I was a diehard CrossFitter. I wanted to see lifting in the workouts, not just like long metcons every day. I wanted to see, you know, skill work. I wa- I wanted to see like true CrossFit. So we bumped heads a lot. And eventually I got to the point where I was like, "You know what? I don't respect you as a gym owner. Like I don't like what you're doing. It's not, it's not the right way. You guys hired me to do a job, let me do it." And it was, she's a female. So you tell a female you don't respect her, it doesn't work out very well. I didn't like theoretically tell her I didn't respect her. I told her like, "I actually don't respect you-"

Chris Williamson 26:51 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 26:51 ... "as a human being." (laughs) And sh- and she just lost it. So like we wound up getting in this big fight (laughs) and I, I was like, "You know what? Fuck you. I quit anyway. I don't care." Whatever. And she had three partners, and her three partners were begging me to stay. So I tried to stay for like a couple more weeks, but I'd see her every day and I was like, "I can't do this. It's like walking on eggshells at work. I don't like it." So I had about $5,000 maybe saved up. So I quit. About two months went by with my $2,000 a month rent, and now I have like 1,000 bucks left, but not really 1,000. Like I had spent money on food and gas and, you know, living my life. So I got like a couple $100 left. And I had written emails to every gym in town that I want a job. I had, I had applied for a million different jobs. I had two internship opportunities, one with Stanford and one with Notre Dame 'cause I had done really well in school and I could have went and become a strength conditioning, an assistant strength conditioning coach, but it was non-pay for like nine months or something, and I didn't have any money. So I called the schools and I was like, "Hey, I want to take this internship, but I need at least like give me housing, give me a, give me like a student athlete meal plan. Give me something that I can live on." And none of them were willing to do anything. So I had to turn down these amazing opportunities. So from there I'm just like, basically like, "Fuck, I don't know what I'm gonna do. (laughs) This sucks." And I had gotten a membership, a very discounted membership. It was like $200 a month, but these guys let me work out for like $30 a month at this gym called Pacific Beach CrossFit. And that's where I met a man named Anders Varner and another guy named Brian Boorstein, who Anders Varner now I'm, I'm... my podcast is on his network, Barbell Shrugged. So when I first met him, you know, they're going off my resume and my resume says, you know, I had just gotten fourth place at regionals, I was a helicopter pilot, I was on the Olympic bobsled team, like, you know, I have-

Chris Williamson 28:55 This guy's a freak.

Ryan Fischer 28:56 Yeah. I have my degree in exercise physiology, a degree in nutrition, you know, all these different things. And my friend is like, "Dude, this guy is gonna be intense." And then like, I walk in the gym and, you know, we do a workout together and they're like, "Holy fuck, this guy is cool." You know? Like, they really liked me and I... but I just got done telling them I had no money and like the reason I hit them up is because, you know, I just want a place to train. So they were like, "Well, dude, you can train here." Like, y- y- you know, "You can't train here for free, but you can train here for, you know, like $30 or whatever." And it was really, really cheap. So I was like, "All right, cool." I didn't... I couldn't even afford that (laughs) . And like after, I think like this next month my mom might have given me money for rent 'cause I remember still having a house to live in.

Chris Williamson 29:37 Are you still in-

Ryan Fischer 29:38 And-

Chris Williamson 29:38 Is this San Diego still, this gym that you're at?

Ryan Fischer 29:40 I'm still in San Diego.

Chris Williamson 29:41 Yeah.

Ryan Fischer 29:41 Yeah. So I like gained the respect of everybody in the gym. Everybody started to love me. And after that month my mom was like, "You know, I'm not gonna help you anymore. Like there's really, there's no need for me to help you. You need to figure your life out. And I really think you should go back to school. I think you should give up on this whole CrossFit thing. And I don't really like the idea of the military," and like all these different things. So man, I had a lot to think about. And I think what really started to happen was I just was running out of money and I didn't know what to do anymore. So I had to come, come to grips with my friends and tell them like, "Hey, I don't have any money and I'm, I might have to drive all the way home to New Jersey to my mom's house and then go back to school and do something I potentially don't even want to do." So everybody in the gym was like heartbroken over this. They're like, "No way, like not Ryan, like blah, blah, blah, we want him to stay." And there was this girl named Erin Dwyer-And she's like, "You know what? You can sleep on my couch if you want, for as long as you need to get on your feet." And m- but I had never talked to this girl in my life. She's just like, "Everybody seems to like you, you know. I'm a nurse, I'm not home all that much. And, you know, it's there for you." And I originally turned it down, and then got to the point where I had to move all my stuff out of my house that I was living in, and I sold all my stuff, and I had slept in my car for like a week, and I was like... Just was like, "I can't do this. This is not, this doesn't... right." You know? So, during that week actually is when I started to steal. I started stealing, uh, like food and groceries and stuff from the grocery store, 'cause I wanted to stay and I didn't have any money.

Chris Williamson 31:15 Why did you turn it down originally? Why did you turn her offer down? Was it pride?

Ryan Fischer 31:19 No, definitely not. I, I was definitely like willing to take people's help. It was just that I didn't realize I was that far down.

Chris Williamson 31:26 Yeah.

Ryan Fischer 31:26 Like, where like that was what I needed, you know? I kept, I always, in my mind I'm like such an optimistic guy. And I'm, I'm always like pretty, pretty bubbly kind of. I always feel like everything's gonna work out, you know?

Chris Williamson 31:36 Yeah.

Ryan Fischer 31:36 But like it was that one moment where I was like, "Dude, it's- it's fucking not gonna work out." (laughs)

Chris Williamson 31:40 You've been in your car for a week, you've been like-

Ryan Fischer 31:42 Yeah. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 31:42 ... stealing stuff from Whole Foods. Like you gotta take the couch.

Ryan Fischer 31:45 Yeah, so... And it was also like weird, 'cause I didn't know her. It was like I genuinely... I didn't take classes with her, I didn't work out with her. Like I didn't know her at all. Like I know her, I knew her about as long as we know each other on this podcast. So, I was like, "All right, you know, I'm gonna do it." And I wound up sleeping on her couch for like four months.

Chris Williamson 32:04 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 32:04 It was a long time.

Chris Williamson 32:06 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 32:07 And it was a very embarrassing time, like to wake up every day just knowing that you're like in somebody's space and they probably thought you were gonna be there for like maybe a month, and now it's like four months.

Chris Williamson 32:16 Yeah.

Ryan Fischer 32:17 So that started to feel very, very shitty. And, and I'll, I'll never forget, during that whole time, I'll never forget what it was like to go to bed. So like every single night when I would go to sleep, it would just be like full anxiety. Just like, "Why are you even sleeping?" Like, "You don't have anything together." Like, "You have no reason to wake up tomorrow rather than to wak- than to work out." Like, "You're a fucking bum." Like, "What are you doing?" You know what I mean? Like it, and it, it really like crushed my soul like every day. I was like, man, like I looked at my resume and I was like, "This is who I am, but like, this is where I'm at right now and I don't understand it." And it was, it was hard, man. It was really hard to sleep. It was really hard to just like want to show up the next day. But I kept showing up and doing what I did best at the time. And this is when I really feel like, you know, when you, when all else fails, like just keep doing what you love and there'll be a way that it works out. Everybody in the gym at the time had kind of signed me up for this competition called the OC Throwdown. And it was, besides the CrossFit Games, it was the biggest CrossFit event in the world. And you would do these workouts and you would tape your, your workout and you'd put it online, and then you would get placed, uh, you know, first to 1,000 or whatever. And getting invites was like all the top athletes in the world, like all the best crossfitters. E- if you'd been to the games, you got a, uh, an official invite to this competition. But a lot of them still had to do the open online workouts. I got second in the world on these online workouts, and it was the first time anybody had ever seen me work out who hadn't been to regionals. So like social media wasn't that big yet. It was kind of like just starting. I think Instagram had like just started. So I would go crush at regionals, and the only people who would know me are like, you know, the local crowd. But now the whole world knew who I was and they were like, "Wow, this guy's insane." And like at the time, I never worked out in shoes. I always worked out barefoot, because I had one pair... I had like one good pair of shoes and I didn't want to ruin them, so I'd always just take 'em off.

Chris Williamson 34:25 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 34:25 So like all of my old videos, I'm, I'm back squatting... Everybody was really into the 20-rep back squat back then, and I'd be, I'd be doing 20-rep back squat in like, like 365, 375 pounds and I'm barefoot. And like there was one time-

Chris Williamson 34:40 Your sweaty, sweaty feet on a slippy floor.

Ryan Fischer 34:43 There was one time I did 335 and I lost count, so instead of 20 I did like 30 reps.

Chris Williamson 34:48 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 34:49 And I have all these things like recorded and I would start putting them on Facebook and people were like, "This guy is insane." 'Cause like no one had had numbers like that in CrossFit. Like yeah, like Strongman and all that I'm sure it was going on everywhere. But in CrossFit, man, I was snatching 275 when like 225 was cool. And like I was back squatting 500 pounds when 365 was cool. Like I was so beyond the numbers, and then all of a sudden I started throwing down like insane metcons. I was doing Fran in under two minutes. You know, I was doing Grace in like a minute, you know, like just crazy, crazy things. Like everything was unbroken. I was like two minutes faster than everybody on Helen. Just crazy stuff. So, everybody was really, really excited to watch me go to the OC Throwdown and actually compete. And then I get my letter that says, "Hey, you know, welcome to the Throwdown." And you know, "You gotta sign this out, like fill this out and then pay," and it was $200. And I was like, "$200?" I was like, "There is no way I can go to this." So I never, I just l- I just let it go. And I get a phone call like a month later from the guy who's throwing the event and he says, "Hey, like you never filled out the thing. Everybody wants to see you." And I'm like, "Dude, I'm really embarrassed to tell you this, but like I am legitimately, like I have nothing. I'm sleeping on some girl's couch." There is, I don't, I've, to be honest, I've been stealing food for like four months. Like I, I genuinely have nothing. I'm like, I don't, th- like the no shoes that you see in the videos is not a joke. That's like real life shit. So he's like, "Well, all right, I understand your situation. Let's just, we'll comp your, your... We'll make it free for you, and if you win you just pay me back." And I'm like, "All right, cool." You know? So I get all excited.... like, all right, I'm gonna go to this big event. This is gonna be crazy. (clears throat) So, I went to the big event and I'm still sleeping on the couch. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 36:43 Did you- did you have shoes by this point?

Ryan Fischer 36:45 (clicks tongue) Borrowed. Borrowed shoes. So, my one sneak- pair of sneakers I did wear for certain events and I have photos of them. Actually, the original sneakers are still in my closet in my room. I never got rid of them. I haven't worn them in, like, probably six or seven years, but they're just in my closet. I can't throw them away.

Chris Williamson 37:03 Probably for the best that you haven't worn them. I can't im-

Ryan Fischer 37:05 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 37:05 ... I wouldn't like to imagine what sort of a state they're in.

Ryan Fischer 37:09 Um, so at the actual event, I needed, like, lifting shoes and knee sleeves and belts and all that stuff was borrowed and, like, all my clothes were, like, stolen. Like, I mean, it was just a complete ... I was a complete, like, yard sale of stuff. So, I got second place at this event, and I had beaten people who were top three at the CrossFit Games and it was a huge, huge deal. And the scoring was all messed up, so, like, in reality, they found out later that I'd actually won the event. But it was too late to give me prize money or anything like that, which I would've ... changed my life.

Chris Williamson 37:43 No prize money for second place, no?

Ryan Fischer 37:44 But ... No. It's 10,000 for first, though. That would have totally changed my life.

Chris Williamson 37:49 Wow.

Ryan Fischer 37:49 I would have been, like- I would have been, like ... that would have been, like, rich money.

Chris Williamson 37:52 Balling. Yeah.

Ryan Fischer 37:52 I would've been, like, crazy.

Chris Williamson 37:54 Yeah.

Ryan Fischer 37:54 Ah! To even think about that is crazy. So, after that, I did get a bunch of sponsors. I got, like, Progenix was a protein sponsor. This clothing company started sponsoring me. All these other gyms, you know, were like, "Yeah, you can totally work at my gym." Like, I got all these job opportunities. So, I wound up moving to Los Angeles and I did not like that experience, like, at all. I did not like living in LA. I didn't like living in the city, especially Los Angeles. It was ... Where I was at, like, obviously I didn't have a lot of money. It was very poor and, like, just super grungy, dirty. And the gym that I was working out at wasn't very ... They weren't very known for being a very good gym. They were kind of ... You know Ronnie Teasdale?

Chris Williamson 38:35 No.

Ryan Fischer 38:37 He was kind of- he was kind of a badass at the time, where he was very in- like, controversial-type of person. He wrote a big article once about how, like, fat people were ruining the world and, like, ruining the gene pool.

Chris Williamson 38:51 Okay. (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 38:51 And like-

Chris Williamson 38:52 Okay, yeah. Yeah. This guy's- this guy's intense.

Ryan Fischer 38:55 So, CrossFit really hated him because he wrote all these crazy controversial articles. And he was an amazing athlete, actually. He had gotten regional several times and almost went to the games as well. But now you have, you know, me linking up, going to his gym. I start, like, coaching a ton of classes, start saving up dough. And then I wanted to train more, so I started getting more into, like, personal training. And I'll never forget the first time, 'cause I don't think I'd ever made more than $25 an hour in my life at that time. And I'll never forget having this kid come in. He was, like, an actor and he was getting ready to be on an Apple commercial and he wanted to- he wanted to look- look good, right? And I'm like, "All right. Yeah, well, you know, you can come in. You gotta come in, like, three, four days a week and, you know, we'll do this and this." And I showed him, like, what we would do, like a strength template and all this stuff, and he was all excited. And he said, "Well, how much is it?" And in my mind I was like, "Dude, I would be so happy if I just got, like, $50." But I didn't have any money. I'm, like, still coming out of this hole of no money. And I'm like, "It's $100 a session." And, like, I really don't like to work with people unless they buy at least, like, 10 upfront because it lets me know that you're committed. And I remember him just being like, "Yeah, like, no problem." You know, and- and then after we got done talking, he walked away and I- I'll never forget it. I- I went inside the bathroom and I just started, like, screaming. I was like, "Oh my God!" (laughs)

Chris Williamson 40:15 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 40:15 I was like, "I'm about to make $1,000. This is insane." So, that feeling just, like, never went away, so I started just selling people on personal training all the time. And I was like ... started getting really good at it. And then eventually, after about a year, I had saved up $60,000 in cash. Like, I'd paid for all my expenses and I had $60,000 saved and-

Chris Williamson 40:40 Where are you keeping $60,000? Shoebox under the bed?

Ryan Fischer 40:44 No, I put it in the bank, but-

Chris Williamson 40:45 Oh, right. Okay. Okay.

Ryan Fischer 40:46 I wasn't, like, investing it or anything. It was just sitting in a savings account.

Chris Williamson 40:48 Got you.

Ryan Fischer 40:49 So, I wound up at one of these competitions that I had went to during that time. I met with this kid named Kenny Leveraged, and he was a CrossFit Games athlete. And he was just, like, begging me to come move down to Newport Beach where he lived, which is where I live now. And it's obviously a much different vibe, totally different place. So, I'm on the beach now and it's more of like a town-type of feel. Like, more like family-like and stuff. It's not like grungy, bums running around the neighborhood type of place, like where I was in LA. So, obviously I loved it here. And he got me a job at the gym that he worked at, so I moved. And I was only- I was only there for, uh ... I think I was there for, like, a year and a half before I decided to open my own gym. So, the- my time in LA and that year and a half, that was when I had $60,000. So, all of that time. And I met these two guys that I was personal training at the time who looked like bums, by the way.

Chris Williamson 41:48 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 41:48 Like, they looked like normal- total normal dudes. They always even sounded normal. Like, I would- I never heard anything crazy come out of their mouth. And they'd just always ask me what I wanted to do with my life and blah, blah, blah, 'cause they always saw somethings- something in me that they ... Just thought that I had a little something extra than the other coaches. So, I was like, "Well, I would love to own my own gym, but there's so many around." Like, at the time, the Orange County area, which is where I live, we had, like, a record ... We- I think we had 16 gyms in the area. Like, in a small 10-mile radius. Like, not very much. So, to open a gym here was, like, considered madness. So, I told them that. I'm like, "Well, I'd love to own my own gym, but there's 16 here. Like, what do you want me to do?" And he's like, "Well, I think that if a person sells the gym, so like, I think that you would be fine." And I'm like, "I disagree. I feel like people come because their friends are here or because it's the closest one."... so if, if that's all I have to work off of, I want to make sure that when you walk in, there's no way you walk out. So, if you guys give me a million dollars, I will open a gym." And they were like, "Fine," like it was nothing. And I was like, "Okay." So-

Chris Williamson 43:01 (laughs)

Narrator 43:01 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 43:02 ... (laughs) it was, it was li- it was literally that, that simple. Like, to them it was just like, "Okay, go find your space. Go fucking pimp it out and let's go." And I was like, "Wow. Okay." So, like, within a couple of weeks, we had found the space. It wasn't even for rent. The CrossFit Chalk gym that I own right now was a real working gym at the time and we gave them... At the time, they wanted $200,000 to leave 'cause they had put $700,000 in re- like, upgrades to the building. And they're like, "We'll leave if you give us this much money." And we're like, "No, we're not giving you a penny more than, like, 50 grand." So eventually they took it, we took over the space, and then I created what now is CrossFit Chalk. And I did not need a million dollars, I needed like... 250 grand was, like, still more than I could spend pretty much at the time.

Chris Williamson 43:56 Mm-hmm.

Ryan Fischer 43:57 But I did need money for, like, salaries and pay and, like, "What if we didn't make money for a year?" Like, a lot of different things. But the gym is like a legitimate million dollar gym, which at the time was completely unheard of. Like, after I opened my gym, I was in almost every single CrossFit magazine immediately. Like, the way that it looked and, like, the way that I was running it and all this, like, was, was completely unheard of at the time.

Chris Williamson 44:21 What was different about it?

Ryan Fischer 44:23 When you walked in, it looked almost nicer than, like, an Equinox, but it was like a functional fitness gym. I had all of the competition plates lined up against the wall on a rig. Like, $30,000 in competition plates which, at the time, you know, doing my due diligence of other gyms and what they had and what they were offering, like, everybody had, at the time, the rubber plates. Nobody was putting in these expensive plates. Like, if I put rubber plates in, my whole gym would've been seven grand. And everybody was all about starting in your garage and then eventually going to a small space and then a bigger space and, like, going step by step by step. And I was always, like, under the impression the most, the most... Well, the, the gyms that ev- that was really doing well, like, all the gyms that are doing well, you have, like, SoulCycle, you have Barry's Bootcamp, you have... I don't know, whatever you guys have by you, but like, they're, th- they're big franchise gyms. And they never come out and they're like, "You know what? Let's just start this SoulCycle in a garage. And then if it gets bigger, we're gonna go to this small space. And then if that gets bigger, we'll go to a really nice space somewhere and see what happens." They're like, "No, let's just fucking go to the nice place now. Let's put 50 bikes in there. We're gonna fill it." Like, how do you feel when you walk in a gym and there's two rowers and four kettlebells and you're like, "It's $200 a month and we're gonna do this?" And you're like, "What? Doesn't make any sense." So, like, that to me always blew me away and, um, I- I- I was like, "If I ever get to open a gym, I'm never gonna do that. That seems absolutely ridiculous." So, you know, I'd, I decked the whole gym out in all the nicest stuff. I had 10 assault bikes, I had 10 rowers, I had fucking, like, 80 kettlebells, all these dumbbells, like stacks of dumbbells. Like, at any point, anybody in class could have any weight they want and I would never have to worry about not having enough equipment, which was always embarrassing as a coach 'cause you'd have a workout with an RX weight and then, like, half the people couldn't do it.

Chris Williamson 46:18 Do you remember when, uh-

Ryan Fischer 46:19 They were like, "Well-"

Chris Williamson 46:19 ... d- do you remember when the, uh, 22.5 kilo dumbbells came out? Was it, uh, 17/1 or 18/1 and there was like, you were seeing all these videos going out online of someone with, like, a 15 kilo dumbbell with a couple of plates duct taped onto the end of them?

Ryan Fischer 46:31 Yeah. Yeah. That was ridiculous. So like...

Chris Williamson 46:36 (laughs)

Narrator 46:36 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 46:36 (laughs) Also, CrossFit really fucked that up though, because, like, everybody in the free world had, like, 45 pound dumbbells, but nobody had 50s. And I was like... Even now I have this giant stack of 45s and a giant stack of 50s and I'm like, "Do I really need two stacks of, of five pound difference?" But-

Chris Williamson 46:54 Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Fischer 46:55 ... that was rogue, trying to make some money. They probably had tons of 50 pound dumbbells sitting around, they're like-

Chris Williamson 46:59 Oh God.

Ryan Fischer 46:59 ... "Fuck, what do we do with these?"

Chris Williamson 47:00 "Guys, no one's, no one's using these 22.5 kilo dumbbells. What can we do? Dave, mate-

Ryan Fischer 47:04 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 47:04 ... um, is there any chance that you could... Yeah. Brilliant. Thank you very much. Cheers."

Ryan Fischer 47:08 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 47:09 There's Dave Castro just in, we've got, like, a rogue T-shirt for every day of the year.

Ryan Fischer 47:13 Oh, yeah.

Chris Williamson 47:13 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 47:15 My, my, my goal was to make it to the CrossFit Games and wear a T-shirt that says, um, "My mama don't like you and she likes everybody," and it has Dave Castro on it. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 47:23 Nice.

Ryan Fischer 47:24 The Just- the Justin Bieber line.

Chris Williamson 47:25 Yeah. Dave Castro, uh, funny story. Dave Castro was the second ever podcast that I did. So I got invited down-

Ryan Fischer 47:32 Oh, really?

Chris Williamson 47:33 I got invited down to 18.0 by Reebok. Um, they did that. Do you remember that? Did you ever see that?

Ryan Fischer 47:38 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 47:39 Yeah. So the 18.0 announcement and, um, I'm sitting down with Dave and I've h- like, I- I've done one podcast before this, right? And I love, I love podcasts, I'd been a guest or whatever, but I'd never done one before. And you sit down and Dan Bailey was coming up after Dave, so Dan Bailey was number three and Dan's already met me, "Hey man, how's it going?" This, that, and the other. And then Dave's kind of, he's, he's kind of a bit, I don't know, intimidating to kind of speak to and I didn't really know-

Ryan Fischer 48:03 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 48:03 ... didn't really know how it was gonna go and then just before we started, Dave was like, "So what are we doing here?" And I was like, "Oh, I'm about to record a podcast." Dave's like, "Don't really do podcasts." I was like, "Right, okay. Well, I'm just gonna get you to count to five for me please, Dave, if that's okay." And I just kind of steamrolled through that but, um, and then I asked him, uh, what did I say? "Would you rather fight, uh, 10 duck-sized horses or one horse-sized duck?" Um, and I was-

Narrator 48:27 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 48:27 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 48:27 ... I was just asking him whatever (laughs) I could think of to, like, try and lighten the mood a little bit. Um, and I asked him about who would you not want to face out at the CrossFit Games, uh, in The Hunger Games? And he was like, "I don't know what that is." I was like, "It's kind of like Battle Royale."

Ryan Fischer 48:41 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 48:41 And he went, "Battle Royale? Do you mean WWE?" And I was like...

Ryan Fischer 48:45 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 48:47 ... no, Dave.

Ryan Fischer 48:48 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 48:48 Where have you been? Do you not watch any movies?

Ryan Fischer 48:51 Yeah, he hasn't really been to a lot of places, I don't think.

Chris Williamson 48:53 No, he's kind of in his bubble.

Ryan Fischer 48:54 And he's not a h- he's, he's not a happy man, so ... (laughs)

Chris Williamson 48:58 Uh, he's, he, he w- uh, anyway, he was, it was interesting the difference between him and Dan. Then Dan comes out and Dan's just like super funny, super relaxed. But, yeah.

Ryan Fischer 49:05 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 49:05 So you, you're in the gym. You've opened the gym, you've got $30,000 of weights, plates and bars and all that stuff.

Ryan Fischer 49:12 Yeah. And I mean, I, I probably spent about 100 grand on equipment, $100,000 probably on equipment. And then I put like, uh, maybe another $100,000 into like the build of the building, just like painting and changing things, making it nicer. My bathrooms were like $250,000 but I didn't have to do that. There was the person before us.

Chris Williamson 49:29 Ah.

Ryan Fischer 49:29 Like that was part of the, that was part of the money they wanted to get back. So now I have like theoretically about a million dollar gym. And my first day open, I had like 100 members. And I didn't even do any pre-sales. I just like opened and everybody came. Because during that time, I was posting on Instagram 'cause Instagram was just starting to get big and I started posting like, "Hey, I just bought 30 grand in Olympic lifting plates. Here's the, here's the space before all the weights. Here's, you know, where we are in town," which is like a really nice commercial area and everybody else was in industrial areas. And like, it was the first time somebody was gonna go and spend. Like my rent's like $11,000 a month. It's crazy.

Chris Williamson 50:09 Shit.

Ryan Fischer 50:09 And everybody, everybody before that was spending like $3,000, $4,000 in like a little garage style space. So I'm in this nice area, everybody sees the gym all painted and pretty. Then they see the weights come in, then they see all these rigs and all these stuff, all the rowers, all the bikes. They're like, "Holy shit, this place is gonna be insane." So without me knowing, everybody's putting in their 30-day notice at all the gyms, you know? (laughs) And they're all like getting ready to come. And I have a video on my computer, like the first day, I'm just packed.

Chris Williamson 50:38 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 50:39 And I, every- everybody told me, you know, "If you get 100 members in your first year, you're doing really good." I had 100 members my first day.

Chris Williamson 50:45 Shit.

Ryan Fischer 50:47 But I'm so anal and I'm so like, you know, I'm so grateful for this opportunity, I don't want to blow it, you know? My, this, this last year has been very stressful for me, you know? Like I had a lot of ups and downs, like the last three years really. And it was very important to me to have the right people there. Like when it started, I had zero coaches. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 51:10 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 51:11 I coached ev- every single class every single day for two months before I h- hired my first coach.

Chris Williamson 51:16 What was the timetable?

Ryan Fischer 51:18 So 5:00 AM was the first class and then 7:45 PM was the last one.

Chris Williamson 51:23 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 51:24 So I'd get ho- I would get home at usually about 10:00 and then get back to the gym at about 4:00 AM. So I would leave the gym at 10:00, by the time I actually went to bed, it would be like midnight. And then I'd wake up at 4:00. Sometimes I'd wake up at like 3:00 because I'd be nervous to wake up at 4:00.

Chris Williamson 51:41 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 51:43 And then before I knew it, I was only sleeping like three or four hours a night for those whole two months and I was like a complete zombie. But there was this other girl who had gone to regionals and I'd met her a few times and she kept emailing me, you know, "I really want to go on and coach there," and blah, blah, blah. So I was like, "All right, well, you know, you come and let me, we'll see how you do and whatever." So she did a great job and I had to like watch her every day for like a month so I basically was like me still running all the classes every day. But I'd get to like kind of sit off to the corner and just, you know, get to write workouts and do management stuff, which I didn't realize how much really went into it. You know, I thought opening a gym was, you know, you open it and you have this many members and this is your expenses and off you go. It's not like that at all. So people always ask me about opening a gym now and I'm like, "Please for the love of God, do not open a gym."

Chris Williamson 52:33 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 52:33 Like you, you genuinely just don't understand. And I was so lucky in my opportunity and like I'm- something tells me you don't have the same luck that I had at that moment. Because just like the height of CrossFit, the height of my career, like the insanity of what my, what my gym looked like, the fact that Instagram was climbing at the time, I had so many things in my favor that people just don't have now. That for you to replicate that is almost impossible. But, and I was like the top trainer at the gym I was at, like everybody wanted to go with me. Like the, the owner of that gym was never there. He didn't care about the gym, he didn't stop in. Like it was, there was no connection to him. So when I left, it was just natural for them to come. I think like 40 people probably came from the gym that I was at before. And then everybody else just saw us on Instagram. So that was like kinda, kinda all going on. And during this whole situation, I'm still training for regionals (laughs) .

Chris Williamson 53:34 On four hours-

Ryan Fischer 53:34 And everybody still wanted to s-

Chris Williamson 53:35 ... four hours sleep a night.

Ryan Fischer 53:37 Yeah. And everybody still wanted to see me go to the games and all that. But the year prior to this was when I actually threatened to murder that judge in front of everybody.

Chris Williamson 53:46 Yeah. Tell us that story.

Ryan Fischer 53:47 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 53:48 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 53:49 So this was before the gym was open, and this is while I'm still saving money. I understand that in the future I'm probably gonna open a gym and like my whole life before that time, I just got done being homeless, like all these different factors, like CrossFit's my life basically. And I'm in this moment and I'm doing a workout that is the one workout at regionals that I could not wait to do. And it was 21-15-9, deadlifts at 315 and box jumps at 30 inches. I had done 21 deadlifts probably 10 seconds before anyone else even got off the bar. 'Cause 315 to me at the time was nothing, like I had a 600 pound deadlift. I was probably the only person in CrossFit that had a 600 pound deadlift at the time, and 315 to me felt like 225. So I fly through it, I get all my box jumps done, I go back to the bar and now I just start getting no rep like crazy. Like no rep, no rep, no rep-... and there's parts of it where the guy's no repping me and he's not even looking at me. Like, (laughs) you're me and he's over here and he's like, "No rep. No rep." And he's, like, looking at the head judge and I'm like, "You're not even watching me work out. This is ridiculous." Like-

Chris Williamson 55:01 Was it- was it for extension? Is that what the criticism was?

Ryan Fischer 55:03 It was for bouncing. They said I was bouncing the weights. And you can watch the video on YouTube, it's all over the place. And I'm just ... the weight is very, very light to me, so I'm just going up and down very, very fast.

Chris Williamson 55:15 Mm-hmm.

Ryan Fischer 55:16 So, it looks like I'm bouncing it. And it's the first year they had ever had competition plates. And competition plates don't really bounce at all in general. So, in the moment, I'm, like, freaking out. I can feel that ... 'cause the year before that, I'd gotten fourth at regionals. And this was my year. Like, I was gonna go to the games 100%. Even with all that, I got dead last in that event, right? 'Cause I freak out, I tell the judge in the middle of the workout, "Dude, I'm gonna fucking kill you." You're like, "You're ruining my life." A lot of people like to s- like to remember that I- "I'm gonna fucking kill you" part-

Chris Williamson 55:49 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 55:49 ... but they don't understand that I said, "Um, you're gonna ... you're ruining my life," after that. Because, like, I could feel, like, everything. Bobsled, skeleton, being homeless, owning that gym. Like ... not owning that gym, working at that gym that I hated. Like, not having any money, stealing, everything is, like, in that moment. And I'm like, "I'm gonna go to the CrossFit Games and everything's gonna be fine." And he was taking it away from me in that moment, and the only thing I could think of is like, "Dude, I'm gonna fucking kill you." Like, "You're ruining my life." And I guess I, like, screamed it and scared the fucking guy, and he was, like, freaking out. And then, basically, they had to make an example out of me and, like, afterwards, like, Dave Castro comes over and, like, publicly humiliates me and, like, points to me and tells me that I'm a terrible person all over CrossFit, and they- they exploited it all over the website. Like, "Ryan Fisher is, you know, completely out of line and a maniac," and blah, blah, blah. I got last place in the event, obviously, 'cause I didn't ... they would never give me a rep. So, I eventually just, like, did, like, 100 deadlifts instead of 45. And then I wouldn't sign the paper at the end. It was just, like, a giant, giant fucking ordeal. Huh. So, after that moment, I was considered the maniac for CrossFit. And then opening my gym actually seemed even crazier at the time, 'cause now there are 16 gyms in the area. I'm the complete maniac guy that probably nobody wants to go to his gym, 'cause you look him up and he looks like Johnny McEnroe.

Chris Williamson 57:18 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 57:18 He's, like, fucking smashing tennis rackets everywhere. (laughs) So, like, huh. Like, my mom was, like, begging me. She's like, "Ryan," like, "your name is not good." Like, you know, "You shouldn't open a gym," and all these different things. But, you know, it worked out. (laughs) And I o- and, and, and the gym was doing well, so ... with all that being said, it ... the hype for me to go back to regionals was pretty big. Everybody wanted to see me compete again, and they wanted to see me kinda overcome the odds. And that was when I thought that I'd wear that Justin Bieber shirt. "My momma don't like you." (laughs) "She likes everyone." 'Cause my mom fucking hates the guy and she actually called him one day and told him how much she hated him.

Chris Williamson 57:58 Your mum rang Dave Castro?

Ryan Fischer 58:00 Yeah. Because after the whole regional event, like, he, like, literally ruined my name. Like, it was so bad. And I was, like, such a good CrossFitter and everybody just ... everybody still to this day remembers me as the crazy person. Until they meet me, they're like, "Man, I thought you were gonna be totally different." Like, "You're actually really nice," and blah, blah, blah. "And I ... Everyone always thought you were insane." So, she got his phone number at one point somehow and was like, "I can't believe you ruined my son's life," and like blah, blah, blah, and, like, all this stuff. So, I just was like, "Man, if I make it to the games one day, I wanna have this shirt that has, like, the Justin Bieber little quote on it." And I ... and it'd just be so funny.

Chris Williamson 58:36 I love the fact that mums get into that sort of a thing.

Ryan Fischer 58:40 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 58:40 You know? I don't know whether you watched the, um, Conor McGregor fight this weekend. But at the end of the fight ... so, he's just smashed Donald Cerrone in 40 seconds, right? And Donald Cerrone's grandmother comes over and, like, has a word with Conor.

Ryan Fischer 58:56 (laughs) Yeah.

Chris Williamson 58:56 And it's like ... it's so funny. Even at the absolute top flight of the sport or, you know, regionals, this huge event, Conor McGregor, biggest fighter on the planet, it's like, you still got to answer to someone's grandmother.

Ryan Fischer 59:07 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 59:07 Like, the grandmother comes over, wags her finger in your face. You're like, "Oh, shit, that's his grandmother." Like, "I can't (laughs)

Narrator 59:14 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 59:14 And even Conor-

Ryan Fischer 59:14 I saw that, yeah.

Chris Williamson 59:15 ... yeah, he's hard as nails, but you're probably still, like, weirdly intimidated by the grandmother.

Ryan Fischer 59:20 (laughs) Yeah.

Chris Williamson 59:21 It's funny.

Ryan Fischer 59:21 Probably.

Chris Williamson 59:22 Yeah.

Ryan Fischer 59:22 I could imagine, for sure. Well, he s- ... he looked like he said some nice things to her. Um, so yeah. I mean, all that stuff was kinda going on and floating through my head and in my life and it was a crazy, crazy time, for sure. And I'll- I'll never forget all that. But Dave Castro, he didn't go away after that for me. (laughs) When I was opening my gym, he tried to take it away from me.

Chris Williamson 59:43 How?

Ryan Fischer 59:43 'Cause I- I- I wanted to call the gym ... 'cause they wouldn't accept any of my names for the gym. I really wanted Chalk and they wouldn't accept it, and I really wanted this other name, like Diesel. I wanted, like, Sweat. I wanted to call my gym CrossFit Sweat.

Chris Williamson 59:56 Wow.

Ryan Fischer 59:56 All these different things. They wouldn't accept anything. And I was like, "Fuck this. You guys suck." Like, "I'm gonna call my gym CrossFit Untitled, 'cause you guys won't even settle on a title." And Untitled actually means, by definition, that it's beyond a title, and that ... you know, it was, like, this really interesting definition for what it actually meant. And I didn't want to be associated with CrossFit almost at that time anyway. So, someone ... I had wrote about this on Facebook, and I was like, "I'm gonna call my gym CrossFit Untitled, 'cause it means this and this and this and this, and CrossFit's never been really good to me anyway." And then someone screenshotted it and sent it to Dave, and then Dave writes me an email and he says, "You will never own a CrossFit gym." You know, "So, you can get- you can get rid of this- this name that you wanna call it," and, you know, basically, "Go fuck yourself." So, I'm like, "All right. Well, there goes that. I guess I'm just opening a regular gym now." Uh, so I write to Cathy Glassman, which is Greg Glassman's wife at the time, and I say, "Hey, you know what? I'm actually not gonna be opening a gym, apparently. Dave was actually really upset with me."... you know, I don't have the greatest, you know, history with you guys. And maybe it's best I just move on and just open my gym as a regular gym and we just forget this whole CrossFit thing. And then she's like, "Whoa. Wait a minute."

Chris Williamson 1:01:10 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 1:01:10 "You know, (laughs) we do have this one Chalk contract. It's been, it's been taken for six months but no one's ever opened the gym, so maybe you can have that one but you have to pay the affiliate fee, like, right now." And I was like, "Done. I've been fighting for that name for almost 100 emails." We went back and forth 88 emails and every email that I wrote had five names on it. So, for my gym. So if you can multiply 88 times five, that's how many names-

Chris Williamson 1:01:39 4- four, 40. Yeah.

Ryan Fischer 1:01:41 ... that I s- that's how many names that I suggested before we landed on Chalk. It was a nightmare.

Chris Williamson 1:01:47 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 1:01:47 And then even since then, Dave will be in the area and he never stops by my gym. He always stops by this one gym that's, like, a few miles away and he stops there multiple times.

Chris Williamson 1:01:56 Yeah.

Ryan Fischer 1:01:57 'Cause he always takes photos, like, in his affila- in the affiliates. And, like, you never go to the same affiliate more than once. Like, you'd go to a different one.

Chris Williamson 1:02:03 Mm-hmm.

Ryan Fischer 1:02:04 But he's been to the same one multiple times now. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 1:02:06 Newport Beach, he's got his, he's got his one favorite. That's interesting. That's funny.

Ryan Fischer 1:02:09 Yeah. And he never comes to mine, so it's funny. But regardless, after all that, um, the gym ... I, I went to regionals again. It wasn't what I thought it was gonna be. Obviously I had a lot more scrutiny on me for judging. Like, there was more judges watching me and-

Chris Williamson 1:02:25 So they didn't-

Ryan Fischer 1:02:25 ... they wanted me to-

Chris Williamson 1:02:26 ... they didn't ban you after the-

Ryan Fischer 1:02:28 They didn't ban me, no.

Chris Williamson 1:02:29 ... "I'm gonna fucking kill you, you're ruining my life." That, that wasn't worthy-

Ryan Fischer 1:02:31 Yeah. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 1:02:31 ... of a ban, but it was worthy of public denouncement?

Ryan Fischer 1:02:34 Yeah. And they really wanted to see me freak out again, so they tried very, very hard. And I got drug tested all the time. Like, it was ridiculous how much I ... I got drug tested, like, every couple of months.

Chris Williamson 1:02:46 For a non-Games athlete?

Ryan Fischer 1:02:48 Yep. And then my buddy who was a CrossFit Games athlete, was, like, never getting drug tested. And I was like, "This is ridiculous. Like, you've gone to the Games three times and you've maybe been drug tested one time and it was at regionals." I get drug tested just, like, sitting in my house, like, fucking reading a book. You know what I mean? Like, it's ridiculous. So I was always getting drug tested. And why ... I had that body that everybody wanted to fail. Everybody's like, "This guy's definitely on drugs." And I'm like, "No, I actually just ... I really do eat insanely well. Like, I never, ever cheat. You guys are always out partying and eating fucking donuts and shit, and I'm actually only eating chicken and broccoli." So, (laughs) so I just looked the way that I did. But anyway, after all that, the gym was picking up more and it was something that I started to just really pour my heart into. And it was ... I was starting to realize that, you know, maybe I was maybe meant to be a business person. And I'd come so close to so many things, right, like, like we had, like we had talked about, in so many different sports. And business for me didn't really feel like I had to ever win anything. It was just kind of, you know, how big can I grow this thing? How many people can I help? Like, there's a lot of things that make you bigger, but there's no, like, qualification process really, you know?

Chris Williamson 1:04:01 Mm-hmm.

Ryan Fischer 1:04:03 You have to evaluate yourself and make sure that you have all your l- all your ducks in a row, if, if you will. But yeah, y- you can, you can go as far as you want and there really is no first place or whatever. It's just where are you comfortable going? And during that time, you know, I didn't like when gyms started small and they, and they started to build. Like I said, I wanted to come out guns blazing. I also didn't like that gyms would put their workouts on their website. I always thought it was weird. Like, every CrossFit gym, you could just go to their website and see their workout. Like, that was totally normal. I could, I could look at any CrossFit gym in the world, there's thousands of gyms, I could look up their email addre- or their website, go to their page and I could see their workout.

Chris Williamson 1:04:47 Steal the program.

Ryan Fischer 1:04:47 Every single, every single day. Right? So I was like, "This is so weird. I am not doing that." So I never did. (instrumental music plays) But the gym kept getting more followers on Instagram and people would be like ... Every once in a while I would post a workout that we did and they'd be like, "Dude, that workout looks awesome." Or, "What are you guys doing in there? Like, the gym looks amazing. Like, you have so many members." Like, and I had just opened and, like, all this stuff. And about three years of this went on, where people would ask me the workout. I got to the point where, like, I'll, I'll never forget I had a phone call from someone in Norway-

Chris Williamson 1:05:25 Hmm.

Ryan Fischer 1:05:25 ... asking me what, what the workout was for the gym that day. I was like, "You're from Norway? Like, why ..."

Chris Williamson 1:05:32 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 1:05:32 "One, I'm probably spending money on this phone call that I don't want to be spending."

Chris Williamson 1:05:35 "Have you reversed the charge this evening, Mr. Person from Oslo?"

Ryan Fischer 1:05:38 And like, "Why do you care that much about the workout?" And I started to realize that I made workouts much, much different than everybody else. I didn't really spend time looking at other people's websites. But when I realized what I was making, I realized it was much, much different. And I had a drop-in who ... This, this lady would drop in to gyms all over the world for work and she was like, "This is my favorite gym. It's the best program I've ever done. You really should put these workouts online and charge people." And I was like, "All right. I'll give it a go," you know? And I was like, "I'll charge everybody, like, 100 bucks a month or something." And my friend was like, "Nah, might not wanna do that. That's kind of a lot. Like, maybe, like, $20. Something really cheap." And I'm like, "$20? You know how long it takes me to do this? Like, you out of your mind." And then all my friends were like, "Well, you're probably gonna get, like, a ... You know, you might get, like, 100 people that buy it." And I'm like, "Well, that would be cool, I guess. I guess I could settle for that." (clears throat) Be an extra $2,000 a month. I was making, like, $4,000 a month at the time. Like, that was my salary for the gym, was 4,000. I'm like, "If I had 100 people on this, for $20, I'd be stoked." So, I make it $20. The first week that it's out, I made $4,000. And I was like, "Holy fuck."

Chris Williamson 1:06:57 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 1:06:57 I was like, "I just doubled, I just doubled my salary." And I was like, "This is insane." So...... I still didn't even market it because I was kind of embarrassed to be the guy who didn't go to the CrossFit games and I'm marketing CrossFit programming, you know. Like, 'cause you have like Invictus and like, you know, Rich Froning, which he didn't even have Mayhem at the time, but Invictus had a bunch of athletes and they had programming, they didn't even charge for it. And then, like, Comp Train with Ben Bergeron, he wasn't charging for it and, like, now all of a sudden you have CrossFit Choc, which is the guy who threatened to murder someone who wants $20 for his programming.

Chris Williamson 1:07:32 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 1:07:33 And it's like, it's like, "Dude, I don't know about all this." And I- I'm like, "Well, fuck, I just made $4,000." I think a lot of people really, whether- whether I'm this person who murders people or not, like people really like-

Chris Williamson 1:07:44 (laughs)

Ryan Fischer 1:07:46 ... People really like my workouts. So...

Chris Williamson 1:07:48 They're good workouts, yeah.

Ryan Fischer 1:07:49 A couple of months went by and it went from, like, I was making $4,000 a month off of it to, like, $10,000 a month. And I was like, "Wow, like, maybe I should market this