Secret Hollywood Rituals, Shane Gillis & Toxic Masculinity - Mark Normand

1. 0:00 – 4:17

   Black History Month Vs Women’s History Month

   1. CWChris Williamson0:00

      Marc Normand, welcome to the show.

   2. MNMark Normand0:01

      Hey, good to be back. What is this, big three?

   3. CWChris Williamson0:03

      Three, man. Third time.

   4. MNMark Normand0:05

      Third time and two from the airport.

   5. CWChris Williamson0:07

      (laughs)

   6. MNMark Normand0:08

      I come straight here.

   7. CWChris Williamson0:09

      Yeah, fly in. It's Women's History Month.

   8. MNMark Normand0:11

      Oh, no.

   9. CWChris Williamson0:13

      Don't say that.

   10. MNMark Normand0:14

       Wow.

   11. CWChris Williamson0:15

       We just exited Black History Month.

   12. MNMark Normand0:16

       That's true. Wow.

   13. CWChris Williamson0:20

       (laughs)

   14. MNMark Normand0:20

       That was a tough month just like... I feel like there's more black on black, uh, talk and trash than before.

   15. CWChris Williamson0:26

       How so?

   16. MNMark Normand0:27

       Well, you got the Katt Williams, which was like the Black Epstein list-

   17. CWChris Williamson0:30

       (laughs)

   18. MNMark Normand0:30

       ... you know. And then like, uh, what's her face did it, uh, Mo'Nique did it after hi-... I don't know, they just feel... And now like P. Diddy is gettin'... You see all the P. Diddy stuff?

   19. CWChris Williamson0:41

       No.

   20. MNMark Normand0:41

       Oh my God, you gotta get on Black Twitter.

   21. CWChris Williamson0:43

       (laughs)

   22. MNMark Normand0:44

       It's wild.

   23. CWChris Williamson0:44

       Blitter?

   24. MNMark Normand0:45

       Blitter, yeah. (laughs)

   25. CWChris Williamson0:46

       What, what's P. Diddy been involved in?

   26. MNMark Normand0:48

       Uh, P. Diddy... Oh, Black Twitter be Malcolm X. All right.

   27. CWChris Williamson0:52

       (laughs)

   28. MNMark Normand0:52

       Um, P. Diddy is, uh, getting called gay and apparently hooked up with a bunch of young boys and stuff. So-

   29. CWChris Williamson1:00

       He's getting called gay and apparently hooked up... So it's like the R. Kelly 2.0. It's the R. Kelly sequel.

   30. MNMark Normand1:04

       Yeah, no urine. Sans urine. But, uh, yeah, apparently he had like a Bieber moment an an Usher thing and a Meek Mill and all this, so-
2. 4:17 – 9:40

   Finding Mormon Loopholes in Utah

   1. CWChris Williamson4:17

      W- uh, speaking of Utah, I went to Utah for the first time and you taught me, (laughs) you taught me about Mormon soaking.

   2. MNMark Normand4:24

      Yes. Are we going right into soaking?

   3. CWChris Williamson4:27

      Yeah. (laughs)

   4. MNMark Normand4:27

      I was just in Salt Lake. They, they still do it. I brought it up and the crowd goes wild.

   5. CWChris Williamson4:31

      What's g-... Can you explain for the uninitiated? Pull this sucker down a little bit for me.

   6. MNMark Normand4:35

      Sure.

   7. CWChris Williamson4:36

      Can you, uh... What, what is soaking?

   8. MNMark Normand4:37

      Soaking is they can't have sex or they can't thrust, so they're allowed to put it in and just hold it there like a gun in a holster. And then they have all these loopholes, much like the Hasidic Jews, they have all these loopholes where a kid can jump on the bed next to them, and so it'll cause a humping movement without actually humping, 'cause the kid was jumping on the bed. (laughs) It's their dumb religion.

   9. CWChris Williamson5:05

      That is the maddest thing, but I didn't realize. I... It's the first time I've been to Utah, first time I've been to Park City, first time I've been to Salt Lake City. And, uh, I didn't realize that coffee isn't allowed-

   10. MNMark Normand5:16

       Yes.

   11. CWChris Williamson5:17

       ... but energy drinks are allowed.

   12. MNMark Normand5:19

       Yes. Loophole.

   13. CWChris Williamson5:21

       Uh, tattoos are not allowed.

   14. MNMark Normand5:24

       Mm-hmm.

   15. CWChris Williamson5:24

       But breast augmentation surgery is allowed.

   16. MNMark Normand5:27

       Oh, is that right?

   17. CWChris Williamson5:29

       Yeah, so you can get cosmetic surgery but you can't get a tattoo.

   18. MNMark Normand5:31

       Wow.

   19. CWChris Williamson5:31

       You can drink like Newtonic or Monster or whatever but you can't drink coffee. Uh, and there's just... I don't know, I feel like the litigiousness should've been more watertight.

   20. MNMark Normand5:44

       Yeah, yeah. Well, I think these rules were made before they'd thought of Red Bull.

   21. CWChris Williamson5:48

       Yes, yes.

   22. MNMark Normand5:48

       You know? So they're like, "Ah, coffee's out," but you go there and the people are oppressed. They're great comedy crowds 'cause I think they're like, "Oh, he said that horrible thing that felt so good. I can't fuck my daughter," or whatever, you know?

   23. CWChris Williamson6:01

       (laughs)

   24. MNMark Normand6:01

       So...... the whole thing is wacky, but when you think about it, uh, Sarah Silverman had a great bit about how we, we make fun of Scientology, but it's just 'cause it's new. If someone brought up Christianity today, you'd be like, "Wait, wait. She got pregnant without fucking, there's a baby Jesus. Who? Wise men. Uh, don't eat fish on Friday." Whatever it is, you know, like, it's just new. And I think the same with Mormonism. It's just, it's, it seems silly, but it's just 'cause we're not in it.

   25. CWChris Williamson6:27

       Yeah, that's interesting. I, uh, I heard a rumor, I don't know if this is true, that the third-largest cash reserves in the world are held by the Mormon Church.

   26. MNMark Normand6:37

       Really?

   27. CWChris Williamson6:37

       That someone made them open up their accounts. Uh, maybe there was some investigation and obviously they're a s- a nonprofit-

   28. MNMark Normand6:45

       Mm-hmm.

   29. CWChris Williamson6:46

       ... or whatever. But just endless numbers of crazy rich people-

   30. MNMark Normand6:50

       Wow.
3. 9:40 – 12:09

   Google’s Painfully Woke AI Bot

   1. CWChris Williamson9:40

      Gemini thing?

   2. MNMark Normand9:41

      Yes.

   3. CWChris Williamson9:42

      And that's-

   4. MNMark Normand9:42

      Hilarious.

   5. CWChris Williamson9:43

      Yeah, that's the new, like, battleground for woke and stuff. I, I don't know how much that is indicative of Google's underlying woke-

   6. MNMark Normand9:53

      Yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson9:53

      ... desires to, you know, trans the entire world and stuff like that. It totally might be. I read the press release where they were apologizing and it's-

   8. MNMark Normand10:00

      Oh, really?

   9. CWChris Williamson10:01

      Yeah. The, the guy put out (laughs) , he was like, um, "We, we made some errors basically." Like it was, and he's like, "Oh yeah, no shit." Like-

   10. MNMark Normand10:08

       Yeah.

   11. CWChris Williamson10:08

       ... it's the biggest news story in the world from the biggest company in the world that's 90% of the entire planet's search volume, and now everyone is skeptical about whether or not your company's got good underlying principles. So-

   12. MNMark Normand10:19

       Yeah.

   13. CWChris Williamson10:20

       Yeah. And it just, it didn't seem very satisfactory to me. But w- what can you say? I suppose in that situation, what are you gonna say-

   14. MNMark Normand10:25

       Yeah.

   15. CWChris Williamson10:25

       ... that's gonna fix the problem?

   16. MNMark Normand10:27

       I know, but did you hear that it's, they're mad at Elon Musk? Oh, so the, the, the guy who invented it got, got into a fight with Elon Musk and was like, "I'm gonna do this to get back at him." That's a rumor. Call in if you know what I'm talking about. But that, that's out there. There's Bill Ackman-

   17. CWChris Williamson10:44

       Yep.

   18. MNMark Normand10:44

       ... and then there's another guy.

   19. CWChris Williamson10:46

       Okay.

   20. MNMark Normand10:46

       The other guy hates Elon. And so he was like, "Let's go, let's go all in, super-"

   21. CWChris Williamson10:52

       I, I mean, that's the worst. Uh, whatever, whoever designed the optics of that thing didn't really get it right. But-

   22. MNMark Normand10:57

       But it's a, it's a sh- it's a microcosm for what's going on in the whole country.

   23. CWChris Williamson11:01

       How so?

   24. MNMark Normand11:02

       Well, it's just like, "Hey, uh, let's kinda go not, let's go no whitey, let's, uh, get a lot of diversity, and all, diversity's great, and, you know, blah, white people have done horrible things." But when you're going inaccurate, that's when we gotta cut it.

   25. CWChris Williamson11:16

       Mm-hmm.

   26. MNMark Normand11:16

       It's like what I was saying before, we went too far.

   27. CWChris Williamson11:18

       Mm.

   28. MNMark Normand11:19

       Like, you know, diversity's good, but when you make, uh, the Nazis Asian on AI (laughs) , you're like, "Well, what are we doing here?" Now it's not even accurate. It's one thing to be nice and progressive, but now we're inaccurate.

   29. CWChris Williamson11:30

       Yeah, they managed to piss off the left by having black Nazis and the right-

   30. MNMark Normand11:35

       (laughs)
4. 12:09 – 19:11

   The Current State of New York

   1. CWChris Williamson12:09

      New York. How's New York doing at the moment?

   2. MNMark Normand12:10

      Ah, it's good. I mean, the news about New York is like, "Hey, there's a migrant eating out your wife at every moment, and uh, you're gonna get killed by a hobo." And look, the guys are still jerking off. The migrant thing is crazy. I went to Mexico City for New Year's just to give 'em, give it back, you know? Like-

   3. CWChris Williamson12:28

      (laughs)

   4. MNMark Normand12:28

      ... "Hey, how do you like it? I got a honky here." But, uh, the migrant thing is kinda crazy, just 'cause they're getting credit cards and all this stuff. So it's like-

   5. CWChris Williamson12:38

      And, uh, where are they being deposited?

   6. MNMark Normand12:39

      They're in a lot of hotels.

   7. CWChris Williamson12:41

      In New York, New York?

   8. MNMark Normand12:42

      In New York, yeah. So some hotel owner's like, "Oh, fuck. How'd I get screwed?"

   9. CWChris Williamson12:46

      And, uh, who- who's telling the hotel owners that they have to do this?

   10. MNMark Normand12:49

       I think Mayor Adams.

   11. CWChris Williamson12:51

       Right. So this is Manhattan, or what?

   12. MNMark Normand12:53

       Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's-

   13. CWChris Williamson12:55

       Uh.

   14. MNMark Normand12:55

       I think they're spread out, but it's mostly Manhattan. I've seen 'em come in on buses. It's pretty wild.

   15. CWChris Williamson12:59

       Okay, so is it just because there's lots of room in New York that- what, like- 'cause you- I wouldn't think Mexico border-

   16. MNMark Normand13:07

       Yeah.

   17. CWChris Williamson13:07

       ... to New York isn't exactly a short trip.

   18. MNMark Normand13:10

       No.

   19. CWChris Williamson13:10

       It's probably like, it's as far as you can get.

   20. MNMark Normand13:12

       Totally. So they're- they're on those buses. It's gotta be hell. I feel for the people.

   21. CWChris Williamson13:17

       Yep.

   22. MNMark Normand13:17

       But, you know?

   23. CWChris Williamson13:18

       That's the worst part of the journey. It's not the-

   24. MNMark Normand13:20

       Yeah (laughs) .

   25. CWChris Williamson13:20

       ... the dude trying to get you across the state line-

   26. MNMark Normand13:23

       Right.

   27. CWChris Williamson13:24

       ... illegally. It's the fucking four-day bus journey to get to-

   28. MNMark Normand13:26

       Exactly. And, uh, it's gotta be rough for these folks, but I think it's also, wasn't Texas like, "Hey, how do you like it?" Wasn't that a thing? "We're sending you the buses of migrants."

   29. CWChris Williamson13:38

       Yeah, f- didn't they put them in, they put them in some really nice retreat some place that rich people go on holiday?

   30. MNMark Normand13:44

       Martha's Vineyard.
5. 19:11 – 24:40

   Is Hollywood Just a Propaganda Machine?

   1. MNMark Normand19:11

   2. CWChris Williamson19:11

      Uh, talking about the Katt Williams thing. I was listening to him speak to Rogan, and he was saying that Hollywood is not really there to entertain you. Propaganda in Hollywood is built into the ingredients list. Your kind of, like-

   3. MNMark Normand19:24

      Wait, can you, can you translate that?

   4. CWChris Williamson19:26

      Hollywood is not really there to entertain you. Propaganda in Hollywood is built into the ingredients list. Basically that-

   5. MNMark Normand19:31

      What does that mean?

   6. CWChris Williamson19:31

      That, I think a lot of what he thinks is happening in Hollywood is, uh, curated narratives in order to be able to deliver a, a particular message to the public out there.

   7. MNMark Normand19:46

      Hm.

   8. CWChris Williamson19:46

      Now, I didn't realize that there's entire well-established law about Black guys having to go through this ceremony of wearing a dress-

   9. MNMark Normand19:57

      Oh, yeah, yeah.

   10. CWChris Williamson19:58

       ... on, on a movie. Like, this is part of it, in order to be able to get a big role. I... This is complete, like, well-established, kind of almost it's, it's like taken as a given-

   11. MNMark Normand20:06

       Right.

   12. CWChris Williamson20:07

       ... that Black guys need to do that, apparently. That like-

   13. MNMark Normand20:10

       Apparently. I don't know.

   14. CWChris Williamson20:10

       ... there's a bag of, there's a bag of cash waiting for you, you just need to put on the dress first.

   15. MNMark Normand20:14

       (laughs) Yeah, I don't know. I mean, look, um, I can't speak to it 'cause I'm not a Afro-Americane, but, uh, I feel like there's Black guys who never wore a dress who made it. A- Are there not?

   16. CWChris Williamson20:26

       Well, I hope so. But I feel like-

   17. MNMark Normand20:29

       Yeah.

   18. CWChris Williamson20:29

       I was talking to Ryan about this, and he seemed to, he seemed to like just... It's taken as a given that's in there. But yeah, you're kind of circling some of the more mainstreamy bits. You do, like, late nighty shows and-

   19. MNMark Normand20:41

       Sure.

   20. CWChris Williamson20:42

       ... and, and stuff. What's the experience? 'Cause obviously you're, like, straddling independent stuff, comedy stuff, and then mainstream stuff too.

   21. MNMark Normand20:50

       Yeah.

   22. CWChris Williamson20:51

       What's the tenor like inside mainstream TV at the moment? Like, what's it like when you... Like w-

   23. MNMark Normand20:58

       It's weird. It's definitely, um... It's like you said, there's definitely like a message that we have to uphold. And, uh, the weird thing about the message, or whatever you wanna call it, the narrative, is I'm okay with the narrative. I get it. We've always had narratives. Like in the '50s, the husband and wife had two beds, and they're fucking married and they have kids, but they have two separate beds. But we all know they're banging, but it's the '50s, you know? So now, the message or the narrative is different. But my thing is, you can't even bring up the narrative. People act like there's nothing. They're like, "No, what are you talking about? Ha ha ha ha." And I'm like, "Well, wait a minute. So we're doing this shit, but I can't, we can't even bring it up either?" That's where I get fucked up. As long as we can acknowledge it, then we're good.

   24. CWChris Williamson21:43

       What would you say to people that say, uh, you're seeing racism where there isn't any? Like, "This isn't racism. This is just representation," or something?

   25. MNMark Normand21:50

       Uh, I would say I'm all for representation, but like, you know, some of these comedy festivals, they'll, they have to check some boxes. So they'll bring on a Black guy who's not that good, but he's Black.

   26. CWChris Williamson22:01

       Right.

   27. MNMark Normand22:02

       And you're like, "Well, there's tons of funny Black guys."

   28. CWChris Williamson22:04

       Mm.

   29. MNMark Normand22:05

       But you just went with the guy who is Black instead of a funny guy-

   30. CWChris Williamson22:09

       Right.
6. 24:40 – 32:11

   Shane Gillis’s SNL Appearance

   1. CWChris Williamson24:40

      What are your thoughts post-Shane's SNL appearance? Have you thought about what this means for comedy? What... Is it the landmark moment that sort of some people hope it is?

   2. MNMark Normand24:51

      I think it is a big deal. I don't wanna be one of these, uh, "Hey, this is a, a knife in the chest of cancel bullshit." I, I, I don't think it's that profound, but I do think... To me, it's funny 'cause SNL is like, "You're out. You're fired." And then five years later, they're like, "Ah." He still said the thing that they hated, so I'm like, "Which one is it?" So it kinda just shows that, listen, a lot of this shit is bullshit. Like, um, you see that Brian Stelter? You know who that is? He was a CNN... He was a CNN, uh-

   3. CWChris Williamson25:24

      (laughs)

   4. MNMark Normand25:24

      ... panelist or whatever you call it. Pundit? And he was like, always like, "Ah, these Republicans," and now he's gotten fired and now he's gone Republican. So it's just kinda funny that, like, things flip and flop and we can go 100, 100 miles an hour in one way, something changes, and we just U-turn and go the other way. And you're like, "Well, what about all that stuff-"

   5. CWChris Williamson25:45

      Yeah.

   6. MNMark Normand25:45

      "... that you were doing?" So it's all silly. We're all gonna die one day.

   7. CWChris Williamson25:49

      Well, I don't know. I mean, people who change their opinions with the wind-

   8. MNMark Normand25:54

      Yes.

   9. CWChris Williamson25:54

      ... uh, it, it, it does make you think that they're pretty unreliable. You know, if SNL... And it, this wasn't... I, I wasn't really paying much attention five years ago when the Shane original thing kicked off, but you just said... What was he on the front cover of? American Life or something?

   10. MNMark Normand26:09

       Who?

   11. CWChris Williamson26:09

       Shane.

   12. MNMark Normand26:10

       Oh, I think it was, like, Newsweek.

   13. CWChris Williamson26:12

       Right, which is a big deal.

   14. MNMark Normand26:13

       Yeah.

   15. CWChris Williamson26:13

       That's a g- it's a big thing that's going on.

   16. MNMark Normand26:15

       It was him, Cosby, Harvey, and Shane. And it was like, "What are we doing here?"

   17. CWChris Williamson26:20

       (laughs) Oh my God.

   18. MNMark Normand26:21

       Yeah, it's crazy.

   19. CWChris Williamson26:22

       And then you think, "Okay, so in five years' time..." But I mean, I don't know. It would've been interesting for SNL to have made people understand why they changed their opinion.

   20. MNMark Normand26:32

       Mm-hmm.

   21. CWChris Williamson26:32

       Because it sounds an awful lot like, "Well, Shane's more popular now."

   22. MNMark Normand26:36

       Right.

   23. CWChris Williamson26:37

       'Cause it's not... And he's still... I mean, during his opening monologue, he managed to say the word gay, retard-

   24. MNMark Normand26:43

       (laughs)

   25. CWChris Williamson26:43

       ... and cracker.

   26. MNMark Normand26:44

       (laughs)

   27. CWChris Williamson26:46

       So-

   28. MNMark Normand26:46

       And we all, and we're all okay. Nobody died. Everybody's fine with the words. It, we're, we're gonna be all right. Well, you know what I love about it? All these, uh, outlets are like, "He bombed! He bombed!" First of all, it wasn't a bomb. He was a little loosey-goosey, he looked a little nervous, but he got big laughs and I thought he did well. But I know a couple comics who have bombed on there, but they didn't write that about them. And they were like, definite bombs. So why won't you wri-... It shows that there's an agenda always. There's always something more behind it, which is weird in journalism, 'cause it used to not be like that.

   29. CWChris Williamson27:17

       You're supposed to just report on fact. But I guess everyone's got an opinion, right?

   30. MNMark Normand27:21

       Yeah.
7. 32:11 – 37:03

   How to Emotionally Detach From Current Affairs

   1. CWChris Williamson32:11

      right. What's your strategy for remaining positive? 'Cause you've gotta keep on top of this stuff-

   2. MNMark Normand32:15

      I know, I know.

   3. CWChris Williamson32:16

      ... in order to be able to do the jokes and the topical things-

   4. MNMark Normand32:18

      Yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson32:18

      ... but you also don't wanna be completely at the mercy and have your brain sucked out of your ears.

   6. MNMark Normand32:24

      I think you gotta b- just be aware of it. You gotta kinda go, "All right, I'm watching a lot of Gaza Strip stuff." (laughs) "I go- I gotta pull back a little."

   7. CWChris Williamson32:31

      Is that your relaxation music on an evening time?

   8. MNMark Normand32:33

      (laughs)

   9. CWChris Williamson32:33

      Some people play a video, a 4K video of a fireplace.

   10. MNMark Normand32:37

       Yeah.

   11. CWChris Williamson32:37

       You've just got Gaza Strip.

   12. MNMark Normand32:38

       Right. (laughs) Yeah, yeah. I've just got, uh, the Iron Dome getting bombed. That's my screensaver. But, uh, yeah, so I'm, um... Yeah, I think you gotta be aware of it, you gotta be conscious of it, and you gotta keep it silly. You gotta keep it funny. You know those comics who go up and just, "This is happening in the country," and da-da-da? You're like, "Well, this isn't fun. You gotta put a dick joke in there somewhere."

   13. CWChris Williamson32:58

       (laughs)

   14. MNMark Normand32:59

       So, somehow keep it silly and be aware that this is all news, it's all gonna go away. The guy lit himself on fire the other day. That will go away in three days, which is sad.

   15. CWChris Williamson33:08

       Yep.

   16. MNMark Normand33:09

       Um, but, uh, that's just how, that's just how it works, and none of this affects you directly. You go to the gym, you eat your, uh, protein, you get laid, you move on.

   17. CWChris Williamson33:20

       That... I- it's this, um... It's a two-way selective amnesia or sort of short-term memory that (clears throat) the press or SNL or whoever seem to very quickly be prepared to forget the thing that they stated as absolute 100%-

   18. MNMark Normand33:37

       I know.

   19. CWChris Williamson33:37

       ... und- undeniable fact. But then the audience also forget the thing-

   20. MNMark Normand33:42

       Yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson33:42

       ... that they were previously vehement about. How many people... I would love to see someone do a study of the proportion of people with Ukraine flags in their bio.

   22. MNMark Normand33:51

       (laughs)

   23. CWChris Williamson33:51

       E- a- and like how does the graph peak?

   24. MNMark Normand33:53

       Yeah.

   25. CWChris Williamson33:53

       And then it sort of tails off, and it tails off, and then, oh, there Gaza happened and, like, that, that was a big drop.

   26. MNMark Normand33:59

       Yeah, yeah.

   27. CWChris Williamson33:59

       The, the sto- the stock of Ukraine discussions really, really hit a-

   28. MNMark Normand34:03

       Yes.

   29. CWChris Williamson34:03

       ... October 7th put a big dent in that.

   30. MNMark Normand34:05

       Right.
8. 37:03 – 41:06

   Who is Paying on Dates in Today’s Society?

   1. MNMark Normand37:03

   2. CWChris Williamson37:03

      I found a interesting study looking at, uh, who pays for dates.

   3. MNMark Normand37:09

      Mm.

   4. CWChris Williamson37:10

      So for Gen Z, an age-old question, who pays for dates, young people tend to lean more liberal on a range of issues pertaining to relationship norms, but when it comes to dating, the idea that men should still pay prevails in heterosexual courtship. Researchers found that w- that young men paid for all or most of the dates around 90% of the time, while women paid only 2% and they split the check round about 8%. On subsequent dates, splitting the check was more common, though men still paid a majority of the time while women rarely did. Nearly 80% of men expected that they would pay on the first date, while just over half of women expected men to pay. Surprisingly, views on gender norms, that didn't make much of a difference. On average, both men and women in the sample expected the man to pay whether they had more traditional views of gender roles or more progressive ones. The findings strongly showed that the traditional pattern is still there. The persistent tradition of men paying for women may seem like a harmless artifact, but in a relationship some acts don't exist in a vacuum.

   5. MNMark Normand38:05

      Wow. Well, how about that? It's like that old Bill Burr joke, you know, like, women want equality except for a couple of things over here. Like if somebody breaks in, you gotta stop 'em, you gotta pay for dinner. Uh, if the ship sinks, I get off first. You know, so that's his joke, but it's an interesting point. You know, we all want equality until you gotta lose something. You know, the WNBA is like, "Hey, we should make as much as men," but male models make less than women, but I don't hear any women like, "Hey, they should make as much as women."

   6. CWChris Williamson38:34

      I sent you that video the other day, the highlights from the WNBA. One of my friends-

   7. MNMark Normand38:37

      (laughs) Oh, no.

   8. CWChris Williamson38:38

      One of my friends replied to me and was like, "Dude, look at the stands." And the stands are just empty.

   9. MNMark Normand38:43

      Ah.

   10. CWChris Williamson38:43

       And you think, "Well, I don't know." Again, with that, it- it's not saying that the WNBA doesn't need support. Maybe female basketball players, it would be great if more of them were incentivized to do stuff, but for all of the people saying you aren't supporting the WNBA, why aren't you attending?

   11. MNMark Normand38:59

       Of course.

   12. CWChris Williamson39:00

       Why aren't you in the stands?

   13. MNMark Normand39:01

       Sure.

   14. CWChris Williamson39:01

       And this is why I've had this idea for ages about how hypocrisy is kind of the perfect purpose-built issue for the internet, because it's like-

   15. MNMark Normand39:11

       Hm.

   16. CWChris Williamson39:11

       Do you remember those games, maybe even exist still, on, uh, like iPads, where it would be a spot the difference thing? It would be on a touch screen in some pub somewhere, and you'd be, like, looking between these two different images and be like, "Oh, okay, so that's there and that's there." And the reason the hypocrisy works is because what someone said or tweeted previously is available for you to see.

   17. MNMark Normand39:31

       Mm-hmm.

   18. CWChris Williamson39:31

       And then the new thing that they said or tweeted is available for you to see, and you're able to compare and contrast the two. And you say, "Well, it's interesting 'cause you once said this thing, but look what's happening here." And this is why, "Well, look, you just said that the WNBA needs way more support, but you haven't bought your season ticket to the, like, W Lakers or whatever for this."

   19. MNMark Normand39:49

       Right, right.

   20. CWChris Williamson39:50

       "So what, uh, put your money where your mouth is."

   21. MNMark Normand39:52

       Sure.

   22. CWChris Williamson39:52

       "How is it that you can talk about this and not ca-" Like, "I saw you courtside at, like, a Bulls game-

   23. MNMark Normand39:56

       Yeah.

   24. CWChris Williamson39:56

       "... but I didn't see you courtside at a women's Bulls game."

   25. MNMark Normand39:59

       Sure. Yeah, I mean, i- i- it's- it's obvious, it's dead-on, but that's how people are, I think.

   26. CWChris Williamson40:05

       They don't like having the hypocrisies pointed out-

   27. MNMark Normand40:09

       No.

   28. CWChris Williamson40:09

       ... quite rightly as well, like why-

   29. MNMark Normand40:10

       Yeah.

   30. CWChris Williamson40:10

       You know, i- i- it really shows up the less gracious parts of you. But yeah, I think that's what people are- are looking out for. They're looking out for, "Hang on a second, is this person fucking telling the truth?"
9. 41:06 – 55:22

   How Effective is Deplatforming?

   1. CWChris Williamson41:06

      How... A- a- again, looking at that sort of shame thing, how effective do you think deplatforming is generally, or the kind of cancellation thing? 'Cause we had, um... Who's the fucking big guy that, uh, plays at the Mothership a good bit and he got in some trouble about doing a, uh, George Floyd joke?

   2. MNMark Normand41:24

      Oh, yeah, yeah, Lucas.

   3. CWChris Williamson41:26

      Yeah, yeah, David Lucas.

   4. MNMark Normand41:27

      Yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson41:28

      What's your... Do you live in permanent ambient fear of the wrong clip going on up on the internet?

   6. MNMark Normand41:34

      A little. Uh, it used to be way scarier just 'cause, uh, people would really, like they made a career off of getting you.

   7. CWChris Williamson41:40

      Hm.

   8. MNMark Normand41:40

      So it was like m- they were more incentivized to get you. But now I think, uh, I think going after George Floyd, I guess that is pretty, (laughs) that's pretty dicey.

   9. CWChris Williamson41:50

      Yeah.

   10. MNMark Normand41:50

       No matter who you are.

   11. CWChris Williamson41:51

       You're flying close to the sun.

   12. MNMark Normand41:52

       Yeah, so I'm not actually surprised that happened. I don't- I don't support getting him in trouble, but like, uh, I'm not surprised. And also he put the video up, so, you know, you're kinda like, "Uh."

   13. CWChris Williamson42:03

       Yeah.

   14. MNMark Normand42:04

       If that happened, if I made a joke about that, I would not be posting that.

   15. CWChris Williamson42:06

       Hm.

   16. MNMark Normand42:07

       So there is, there are some, uh, degrees to this, but, uh, you know, he is a comic and he can say whatever he wants and people can backlash and then he can rebut, and that's how it goes. So, but I do think deplatforming is pretty shitty 'cause it's... All we talk about is compassion, but what about the guy or the gal like, uh, what's the lady from The Mandalorian?

   17. CWChris Williamson42:29

       Hm.

   18. MNMark Normand42:29

       The UFC fighter lady who got in trouble-

   19. CWChris Williamson42:31

       Yes, I know the one you mean.

   20. MNMark Normand42:32

       ... for tweeting?

   21. CWChris Williamson42:32

       Yes.

   22. MNMark Normand42:33

       You know, like, she went through hell and then there's, like, a lot of, like, suicide talk when that happens. Like they really go through hell, but people go, "Well, she's working again, she's fine." And I hate the "she's fine" because you're the one who always talks about compassion. So, like, let's say you called a-... a- a guy the N-word, and then he went back to work the next day. And I was like, "He's fine. Well, what about the N-word thing? Like, that still hurt his feelings." So, i- it just feels a little hyp- hypocritical to me.

   23. CWChris Williamson42:59

       Yeah. I, uh ... There's definitely something about a person overcoming a difficult situation and you thinking, "Well, because they overcame it, that means that it's not a big deal."

   24. MNMark Normand43:09

       Yes.

   25. CWChris Williamson43:09

       Like, you don't know how much difficulty people went through-

   26. MNMark Normand43:12

       Of course.

   27. CWChris Williamson43:13

       ... t- to overcome that. So as a good example of this, um, I'm trying, I'm purposefully trying harder to be more disagreeable in my-

   28. MNMark Normand43:20

       Really?

   29. CWChris Williamson43:20

       ... personal life and on the show as well. Yeah, I just, I find myself to be a bit of a people pleaser. I don't-

   30. MNMark Normand43:25

       Yeah, me too.
10. 55:22 – 1:02:54

    The Irony of Luxury Beliefs

    1. CWChris Williamson55:22

       beliefs.

    2. MNMark Normand55:23

       Oh, do tell.

    3. CWChris Williamson55:24

       Uh, uh, so a friend, Rob Henderson, has repopularized this. It's not his original invention, but he says luxury beliefs are, uh, beliefs held by the upper classes that bestow status on them, but incur costs on people of-

    4. MNMark Normand55:39

       Oh, that's good.

    5. CWChris Williamson55:41

       ... the lower class. Yeah. Uh, so Defund the Police is a, a perfect example of this. Another one that's kind of obvious is, um, two-parent households who have no advantage or getting married has no advantage for raising a child. So, you look at the number of college graduates and people in the upper echelons of society, almost all of them are married-

    6. MNMark Normand55:57

       Mm-hmm.

    7. CWChris Williamson55:58

       ... in monogamous relationships, uh, with a classic nuclear family setup. And the lower classes, th- that may believe this particular narrative that's pushed by them, are the ones that suffer, in the same way as you behind your gated community tweeting, "Yeah, we really need to, you know, these police are racist and we don't, we, we, they shouldn't be there," and all the rest of it. It's like, yeah, but you're not a Black guy from inner city Chicago.

    8. MNMark Normand56:20

       Yeah, exactly. I know, and it looks good on paper. Like, uh, I saw in California they're doing a thing where they're lowering test standards for Black kids 'cause they're having trouble in school.

    9. CWChris Williamson56:30

       Mm-hmm.

    10. MNMark Normand56:30

        And I'm like, "I guess that's nice 'cause more will pass, but you're fucking them in the future." Like, isn't that way worse?

    11. CWChris Williamson56:37

        There's a huge problem in Illinois at the moment in the schooling system, some huge percentage, uh, of kids can't read at grade level. And then they finish, uh, high school and they get out and it's just, there's noth- there's nothing there. They finish, like, K through 12, they've... Math ability is way behind where they should be. Reading comprehension is way behind where they should be. And you think, "What are you learning?"

    12. MNMark Normand56:59

        I know.

    13. CWChris Williamson56:59

        What are you doing-

    14. MNMark Normand57:00

        I know.

    15. CWChris Williamson57:00

        ... in school?

    16. MNMark Normand57:01

        It's scary. And you're following the Roland Fryer?

    17. CWChris Williamson57:04

        No.

    18. MNMark Normand57:04

        Oh, this is right up your anal, baby. This is, this is Chris all day long. I don't wanna get too much into it, but, uh, he's a Harvard guy, Harvard professor, very, like, the youngest, uh, Black ho- professor at Harvard to get tenure or whatever you call it. I don't know.

    19. CWChris Williamson57:21

        Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    20. MNMark Normand57:21

        Brilliant guy. From the hood, Black guy, made it to Harvard, did it, wrote a bunch of books. Esteemed, everybody loves him. He started doing studies on police and Black, uh, you know, crime and all that. And he came out with this study that there's actually way less Black death from police than we think.

    21. CWChris Williamson57:41

        Mm-hmm.

    22. MNMark Normand57:42

        And they're not actually going after Black people as much as we think they are. This is his study. He couldn't believe the numbers 'cause of, you know, 'cause what we've been hearing for years and years. So he did it, he did it for a year with eight interns working under him. He couldn't believe the numbers, so he said, "Let's do another year and do it again with eight different people just to make sure we got it." And it came out the same way. And everybody at Harvard is like, "Don't put this out. It'll ruin you." Which goes back to what I was saying about how I'm okay with the bullshit, but at least let me acknowledge it. They don't even want you to acknowledge it, you know? So he's like, "I'm putting this out. This is data. It's facts." They're like, "It doesn't look good. Don't put it out." They tried to get him fired. They tried to ruin him. They tried to Me Too him. They tried all these things. He beat everything and he put it out, and now he has an armed guard with him all day long 'cause he's getting death threats. So he's got his kid at the grocery store with a fucking security guard. And the irony of like, "Hey, I'm just saying, it's not as bad out there for Black people as we think," to saying that to now needing protection from a cop. I mean, the whole thing's wacky. And I'm not saying he's right or wrong, folks. Don't come after me. I'm just saying this is happening in America right now, and it's fascinating.

    23. CWChris Williamson58:52

        That's wild. I've got a friend, uh, Carole Hooven, who wrote a book about testosterone. And she, when she did Rogan's show, she cried, I think, four times. When-

    24. MNMark Normand59:02

        Whoa.

    25. CWChris Williamson59:03

        When she did my show, she cried, uh, at least three times.

    26. MNMark Normand59:06

        Jesus. (laughs)

    27. CWChris Williamson59:07

        We went, we went, we went for breakfast in Austin. I think she cried twice at breakfast.

    28. MNMark Normand59:11

        What?

    29. CWChris Williamson59:11

        Like, she's just a very emotional lady, you know?

    30. MNMark Normand59:13

        You don't say.
11. 1:02:54 – 1:08:00

    Rise of the Male ‘Baby Girl’ Trend

    1. MNMark Normand1:02:54

       great.

    2. CWChris Williamson1:02:54

       Women are loving men who embrace baby girl vibe and ditch toxic masculinity. Delving into the new trend of baby girl-

    3. MNMark Normand1:03:01

       Baby girl.

    4. CWChris Williamson1:03:02

       ... following Jacob Elordi, Timothée Chalamet, Pedro Pascal, and more. This includes men carrying purses, wearing shorts and sequins, and embracing the traditionally feminine aspect. A man who's a baby girl comes across as sweet, charming, a bit bashful, and seemingly in touch with their feminine side-

    5. MNMark Normand1:03:17

       Mm.

    6. CWChris Williamson1:03:17

       ... ready to talk about their feelings or carry a purse to brunch at any point. Heterosexual women, especially Gen Z'ers, are rusting, which means romanticizing and lusting. I, I thought rusting might mean something else. After men that they consider to be baby girl. This trend signals a sharp departure from the uber-masculine sex symbols of previous generations, a lady explained to The Post, "And men outside the limelight are taking note. I think the definition of what is masculine is changing." Uh, the director of Tawkify matchmaking service told The Post, "Some traditional masculine norms are sh- are shifting. Masculinity today is not about being a tough guy, but about being honest, respectful, protective, and emotionally expressive. About 31% of American men have actively changed their behavior to become more vulnerable and open with people they are dating, according to Bumble's 2024 Dating Trends report."

    7. MNMark Normand1:04:04

       Well, I think this is nothing new. You know, like, like Mick Jagger, David Bowie, they, they all went through this, like, uh, what, what do you call that when you're, you're kind of feminine and masculine?

    8. CWChris Williamson1:04:14

       Like metrosexual, yeah.

    9. MNMark Normand1:04:15

       Andro- androgynous.

    10. CWChris Williamson1:04:16

        Right.

    11. MNMark Normand1:04:16

        Androgynous. Like, I think this is, you know, in the '60s, guys grew their hair long, and every dad was like, "You fucking homo. Look at, look at this. Get a haircut, pussy." And I think, uh, that was crazy then, you know, having long hair or tight pants or whatever. So I think this is just, this is just another swing of this, and masculinity is the norm, so we gotta go against the norm.

    12. CWChris Williamson1:04:36

        Yeah.

    13. MNMark Normand1:04:36

        And then eventually, baby girl, whatever will be the norm, and then being masculine will be weird, so that'll be in.

    14. CWChris Williamson1:04:42

        Yeah.

    15. MNMark Normand1:04:42

        So I think it just, it'll all just flip and flop.

    16. CWChris Williamson1:04:45

        Everyone's affected by whatever looks novel.

    17. MNMark Normand1:04:47

        Yes. Hey, that's a better way to, concise way to say it.

    18. CWChris Williamson1:04:50

        I've been, me and my housemate have been thinking a lot about things that are bitch that you don't realize are bitch. So trying to pick up a moving ping pong ball.

    19. MNMark Normand1:04:59

        Ah. (laughs) That's a great one.

    20. CWChris Williamson1:05:02

        Very bitch. Starting-

    21. MNMark Normand1:05:03

        That's great.

    22. CWChris Williamson1:05:04

        ... a stopped bicycle.

    23. MNMark Normand1:05:06

        Oh yeah, that kinda awkward...

    24. CWChris Williamson1:05:09

        Yep.

    25. MNMark Normand1:05:09

        Ooh, I got one.

    26. CWChris Williamson1:05:10

        Yep.

    27. MNMark Normand1:05:11

        You know when you close the door and it doesn't clo- the car door, and it doesn't, doesn't latch all the way and you gotta give it that booty bump?

    28. CWChris Williamson1:05:16

        (laughs)

    29. MNMark Normand1:05:17

        I hate the booty bump, but you gotta do it.

    30. CWChris Williamson1:05:19

        Ah. (laughs)
12. 1:08:00 – 1:19:01

    The Modern American Sports Landscape

    1. CWChris Williamson1:08:00

       um... Oh, do you know what the Beer Mile is? Have you heard of this?

    2. MNMark Normand1:08:02

       No.

    3. CWChris Williamson1:08:02

       Okay. Well, it's, I think it's technically called the Chunda Mile, but, um, you do, I think, four laps of a 400-meter track, which would be 1.6K. I think that's a mile, I think 1.6. Or maybe th- you start a tiny bit behind the line or something to absolutely nail it. And at the beginning of each mile, or at the beginning of each lap, you drink a bottle of beer, I think, or maybe it's a pint. I think it's a pint of beer. So it's four pints and four laps of a running track, one mile.

    4. MNMark Normand1:08:34

       Okay.

    5. CWChris Williamson1:08:34

       And this is a very prestigious, in the running world, super prestigious record. Super pre- Like, the guy that wins this, there's an entire channel that's, that's committed to it, and they track all of the things, and there's people that... And they've got, you know, tactics for how they're gonna drink. And it's not just your ability to run, it's your ability to not run and not throw up, and it's called the Chunda Mile because as soon as everybody finishes-

    6. MNMark Normand1:08:55

       Puke?

    7. CWChris Williamson1:08:55

       ... four pints, two liters of beer just comes back out of them.

    8. MNMark Normand1:08:59

       Oh, I love it.

    9. CWChris Williamson1:09:00

       And, uh, it's a-

    10. MNMark Normand1:09:01

        That's fun.

    11. CWChris Williamson1:09:01

        It's, like, highly held, uh-

    12. MNMark Normand1:09:03

        Really?

    13. CWChris Williamson1:09:03

        Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    14. MNMark Normand1:09:04

        This should be televised. This is way more, way better than pickleball.

    15. CWChris Williamson1:09:07

        (laughs) Dude, I think-

    16. MNMark Normand1:09:09

        I do love pickleball.

    17. CWChris Williamson1:09:10

        I adore pickleball.

    18. MNMark Normand1:09:11

        Me too.

    19. CWChris Williamson1:09:12

        Problem is, it's the, it's got the highest disparity between how fun it is to watch-

    20. MNMark Normand1:09:18

        Yeah.

    21. CWChris Williamson1:09:19

        ... and how fun it is to play.

    22. MNMark Normand1:09:20

        Great point. So true.

    23. CWChris Williamson1:09:21

        There is no more boring sport to watch.

    24. MNMark Normand1:09:23

        It's like scissoring. Way more fun to do. Watching scissoring, I don't love.

    25. CWChris Williamson1:09:29

        Ah.

    26. MNMark Normand1:09:30

        But yeah, you're right, and I always say pickleball is like COVID 'cause it swept the nation and old people love it and fat people are scared of it.

    27. CWChris Williamson1:09:36

        Have you played Padel? Have you tried that?

    28. MNMark Normand1:09:39

        No (laughs) . Is that paddle?

    29. CWChris Williamson1:09:40

        So that's a... Yeah, paddle, whatever. I don't know. It... I, I'm around some people that are European and they call it Padel, but I think that maybe Padel is something different to paddle. I don't know. Anyway.

    30. MNMark Normand1:09:47

        Hmm.

Episode duration: 1:58:32