The Case Against Condoms & Fake Friendship - Rick Glassman (4K)

Chris Williamson 0:00 I'm cosplaying as you.

Rick Glassman 0:01 I know.

Chris Williamson 0:01 What do we think? How do you, how do you rank my look?

Rick Glassman 0:03 I would wear it.

Chris Williamson 0:05 Nailed it.

Rick Glassman 0:06 And I was flattered, 'cause we don't really know each other, but you said, like, "Are you gonna wear a nice jumper?" And I'm like, "That's kind of my thing."

Chris Williamson 0:12 Yeah, of course it is. You seem like a very cozy guy.

Rick Glassman 0:16 Thank you.

Chris Williamson 0:16 If I could describe you in a single word, based on five minutes of interaction-

Rick Glassman 0:21 Mm

Chris Williamson 0:21 ... and watching some stuff on the internet, it would be cozy.

Rick Glassman 0:24 I like to wear things that I could sleep in, but I also know that sometimes if you show up someplace wearing something that-- sometimes you wear something someplace, and people feel offended based on what you're wearing. And it's like, I, okay. Um, so let me just find some really cool clothes that I could trick you into thinking is, "Oh, look it, I could wear this to the big dance"-

Chris Williamson 0:43 Mm.

Rick Glassman 0:43 " -but also I could go home and sleep in it."

Chris Williamson 0:45 Mm. No, I, I optimize for comfort as well. Mine leans a little bit to sportswear-y, which there's not really much that you can do to kind of elevate sport. If you're going out for a dinner or whatever, and you're in a, like, a Lululemon fucking T-shirt or something, y- you're a little bit, you're struggling.

Rick Glassman 1:00 When you wear sports clothes, you're not wearing something to elevate the clothes. You're wearing clothes to elevate the body-

Chris Williamson 1:06 Mm.

Rick Glassman 1:06 -and you have a body for it. I've been saying it for weeks. But you have a body-

Chris Williamson 1:09 Trust me

Rick Glassman 1:09 ... that shows the veins.

Chris Williamson 1:10 Uh-huh.

Rick Glassman 1:11 So.

Chris Williamson 1:12 Well, this, I could get away with this. I feel like, uh, it's like a cup of cocoa, like both hands.

Rick Glassman 1:18 Mm.

Chris Williamson 1:18 Holding it with both hands. It's very important.

Rick Glassman 1:20 Another way I think of that is, like, if this were a rom-com in the early 2000s, and you would be a beautiful woman, and you would, you would be wearing that, but you would be... It would be like this. Yeah, and I would think you were ugly as shit until you took your glasses off.

Chris Williamson 1:33 And I'd have my, I'd have my glasses down here.

Rick Glassman 1:34 Oh, you're ugly!

Chris Williamson 1:35 My hair's up in a bun, and I'd like, pull them like this and go-

Rick Glassman 1:38 Oh-ho-ho, yeah, then you get a, can I say boner?

Chris Williamson 1:41 Yeah, yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:41 Yeah, then you get a boner. Then you get a boner.

Chris Williamson 1:43 Uh-huh. I heard you talk about, um, like, random erectile dysfunction and the-

Rick Glassman 1:49 RED

Chris Williamson 1:49 ... the subsequent fallout, the s- the, sort of the, the negotiation that you have.

Rick Glassman 1:54 Where did you hear me talk about this?

Chris Williamson 1:56 You were freestyle rap-- someone, it was, like-

Rick Glassman 1:57 Right

Chris Williamson 1:57 ... in your show.

Rick Glassman 1:58 Yeah, with Kosta Kontra.

Chris Williamson 1:59 Yeah, and uh-

Rick Glassman 2:01 [chuckles]

Chris Williamson 2:01 ... you were trying to explain to four surly Black men, um, who I didn't think would be that forgiving of a conversation-

Rick Glassman 2:10 [chuckles]

Chris Williamson 2:10 -around, like, rapid erectile, RED, rapid erectile dysfunction.

Rick Glassman 2:14 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 2:15 Uh, but they seemed to be, they were like, "Yeah, man, been there."

Rick Glassman 2:19 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:19 Or whatever.

Rick Glassman 2:19 Well, they, they didn't say they were, they had been there. They said they hadn't, and I don't believe them, but they were accepting of it. One of them grew up watching The Simpsons. I'm not joking. We talked about it.

Chris Williamson 2:29 He was the one that you resonated with the most.

Rick Glassman 2:31 [chuckles] Yeah, I was like, "This guy goes soft a lot."

Chris Williamson 2:32 You want to get into a relationship with me at some point in future? That'd be good.

Rick Glassman 2:35 The conversation was based around, and I don't want to get-- I mean, we can, but this is how we're opening it, but based on comfort, um, I'm very sensitive to smells and textures and sounds and, like, f- it's not, it's not just a look thing. It's really, like... The best I can explain it is, like, people that wear contacts, even if it's not hurting you, you know they're there. Um, it's hard to be present if you're feeling things.

Chris Williamson 2:58 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 2:58 And, um, s- s- uh, when you make love or even have sex in a, with a condom, it's like I'm having sex with contacts.

Chris Williamson 3:10 [laughing]

Rick Glassman 3:10 So I'm just aware, I'm aware they're there. You know what I'm saying? I'm blinking a lot and-

Chris Williamson 3:14 Yeah, yeah

Rick Glassman 3:14 ... uh, that's why I've, I've learned, and I think this is a good practice indirectly, to never, uh, have phys-- be, like, that physically intimate with somebody who you don't feel safe explaining to them, "Hey, I'm not present with you right now."

Chris Williamson 3:29 Mm.

Rick Glassman 3:29 You know what I mean?

Chris Williamson 3:30 Mm.

Rick Glassman 3:30 Um, I, maybe we could make out for a little bit, or we could-- why don't we go get tested, so we don't have to wear these? And I feel that way in friendships as well, as a metaphor.

Chris Williamson 3:38 What's the equivalent in a friendship?

Rick Glassman 3:40 Um, I like to bust balls. Uh, I like when people fight. Like, I like playful banter and, and repartee. Um, I don't pick up very well on when other people don't like it, and what I have found is, and I don't think this is exclusive to relationships with me, I just think when people... anything, but I'll say play for this example. Uh, it's a lot easier to just go with the flow and just drain your battery a little bit than it is to say, "Hey, I, I think you're joking. I'm not sure. I don't like playing this way."

Chris Williamson 4:11 Mm.

Rick Glassman 4:11 Um, "Could you explain your intention, or even if I know your intention?" I don't know. There's something about it when you comment on this or that. Um, as much as I don't take it as my responsibility to, like, make sure other people feel safe, like, they could set their own boundaries, I also recognize that some people don't feel comfortable setting their boundaries, at least not yet. So I guess in that analogy of, like, having sex with somebody before you guys feel safe saying who you are and what, what makes you feel good. Um, so in bits, like, I get stoned. I love weed, and when I am high, I'm in bit mode, and I'm hilarious, uh, or extremely annoying, and I don't know. So I'll go into groups of people and be like: "Hey, like, uh, are we doing bits? Could I-- 'cause if not, I'll get out of here." Because people won't say, and they'll roll your eye, they'll roll their eyes, and then, like, later you find out you were annoying people. So I just think it's important to, uh, yeah, I guess in friendships, be able to have friendships where you don't have to wear a condom. You know what I mean?

Chris Williamson 5:16 What a wonderful way to summarize it. I know exactly what you mean. I would have guessed, given what I know about you, um, somewhat obsessive, uh, the, with the OCD, with the paying attention, with the vigilance stuff, with the I'm sort of aware of my surroundings, what I feel, what I hear, what-

Rick Glassman 5:36 You just really Rain Man'd me there.

Chris Williamson 5:38 Yeah, I know, yeah. [chuckles] Um-

Rick Glassman 5:40 More water.

Chris Williamson 5:41 I would have guessed that that would have, uh, graduated or evolved into some sort of codependency. If you're not okay, I'm not okay.

Rick Glassman 5:51 Mm.

Chris Williamson 5:51 If I say something that makes you upset, like, I'm permanently not doing the bits. I'm scared of doing the bits because if the bit makes you: "Ooh, did they respond slightly badly to that one? I might have hurt their feelings." I would have imagined that that blast radius of some stuff that you pay attention to would have expanded out into-... I'm in a group, and I'm steaming in, maybe not if you're high, I guess, like, you've probably walled that off somewhat, your ability to pay attention. But yeah, I would have thought that you would've been, uh, you would've had that trait, too, that you would've been over- o- over-concerned.

Rick Glassman 6:22 I understand the trait you're talking about. I just don't understand where the, wh- why, uh, wh- wh- why?

Chris Williamson 6:29 Well, if you are hypersensitive to the clothes that you're wearing-

Rick Glassman 6:33 Mm-hmm

Chris Williamson 6:33 ... the sensations there, it's obvious that your sensitivity is maybe a little higher than other people's might be.

Rick Glassman 6:39 Oh, I understand. Yeah, so, so not-- this is not a po- uh, a, a, a trait that I'm, I'm proud of. It's a trait that I'm aware of, and I've, I've been working on. But the sensitivity is, is about my comfort, and I'm very sensitive, not, um, not like I'm in tuned with the universe.

Chris Williamson 6:58 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 6:58 Um, it's more about self. Um, and like, if I'm a-- like, it was for a long time, it still is. Um, uh, what I'm about to explain still exists in my mind emotionally, but logically, I know it's not the case, and I could parent myself with it. But for a very long time, I wasn't aware of this, which is whatever I was thinking or feeling, I didn't assume necessarily it's right or wrong. I just assumed, "This is what you're thinking and feeling."

Chris Williamson 7:27 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 7:27 I knew what you were thinking, and I was wrong. I didn't think I knew what you were thinking. Like, I knew it. Um, oh, everybody's uncomfortable. I better do some type of a joke, you know, or everybody is this. Um, and what I realized is I have no idea what other people are thinking. I have no idea how they're feeling, and I still don't believe that a lot of people are even very in touch with what they're thinking or feeling. So the idea of me being like, "Oh, maybe I'm doing something to this person," the only way I'll feel that way is if I... Like, right now, I feel, oh, I'm talking too much.

Chris Williamson 7:58 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 7:58 It is what it is. Feel free and interrupt. These are podcasts.

Chris Williamson 8:01 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 8:01 But like, so now I'm thinking, "Oh, maybe I should be quiet." I'm not thinking that you think I'm anything. I'm just like-- Yeah, I don't, I don't know. I just... That's why I don't like wearing condoms. I want to be with people who just say, "Rick, be quiet." You know, "Rick, um, I don't like this anymore," or, "Rick, do more."

Chris Williamson 8:18 Oh, that's interesting. So you, you look forward to boundaries being set-

Rick Glassman 8:21 Oh- [chuckles]

Chris Williamson 8:21 ... in that way. You're a-

Rick Glassman 8:22 No

Chris Williamson 8:22 ... pro-boundary person-

Rick Glassman 8:24 PBP

Chris Williamson 8:24 ... on the other side.

Rick Glassman 8:25 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 8:25 How are you with your own boundaries?

Rick Glassman 8:27 Great.

Chris Williamson 8:27 Okay, that's great.

Rick Glassman 8:28 Earlier, we were-- Dean wanted to move my keys and my hat.

Chris Williamson 8:31 Because of you or me?

Rick Glassman 8:32 Um, what's that?

Chris Williamson 8:33 Because of you or because of me? Is it moving be- for that reason or for the other-

Rick Glassman 8:36 Yes, if it, if it was for me, it'd be like, I'm okay. If it's not, it's like, okay, but I still don't want them out of sight. That's why I put them over here.

Chris Williamson 8:42 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 8:43 Um, I also have always been that way, and, uh, it wasn't until I was an adult that I realized that not everybody likes to say that. A lot-- some people will just, "Hey, can I have this?" I-- there's a friend that I have, I grew up with, and I saw him again this summer, and I talked to him about it. I used to sleep at his house a lot, and he had all this cool stuff, like these little toys, nothing, like, expensive that I can imagine, just, like, random little things. "Oh, this is a cool bottle. Can I have this?" [chuckles] I would ask him if I could have it, and he always said yes. And I, I'd, I didn't even reme-- I never really thought about it. There's probably f- ten different things I took from his house, and I saw him this past summer, and I remembered that, like: "Dude, I used to take stuff from your house all the time." He goes, "Yeah, it was okay." Like, I-- like, he didn't want me to take his stuff. [chuckles]

Chris Williamson 9:34 Mm.

Rick Glassman 9:34 And he gave me, like, these toys and stuff, and I was like: "Oh, my God, I feel so bad. W- why wouldn't you tell me no?" He goes, "Well, I don't know. You wanted it, and I didn't really wanna..." And I was like: "Oh, what an ugly thing," [chuckles] you know?

Chris Williamson 9:51 Well, people don't like to call out the game that much. It feels like, um, I think about it like playing a game of ping-pong or tennis or whatever, and the ball's going backward and forward between me and you, and me and you, and me and you, and then someone just goes and hits it sideways. And you're like, "No, it, it, it's supposed to go this way." Like, you're supposed to continue to play the game-

Rick Glassman 10:09 Right

Chris Williamson 10:09 ... within the confines and the rules of the game. And sometimes going, "Is this thing happening because of a you preference or because you're trying to look after me?"

Rick Glassman 10:19 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 10:19 "Or why don't you..." It feels like, it feels a little sort of discordant, right? It's sort of one key out on the chord of-

Rick Glassman 10:26 Discordant.

Chris Williamson 10:27 Discordant.

Rick Glassman 10:28 Not on a chord.

Chris Williamson 10:29 Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're like, oh, hang! Oh, that wasn't quite in the flow of the game that we were playing because you've stepped out of it and then pointed at the game itself.

Rick Glassman 10:38 Well, I would argue that the game that we were playing was this and this, and the moment you hit it this way, that isn't the game that we're playing. So I'm not breaking the game. I'm just trying to better understand what game we're playing.

Chris Williamson 10:49 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 10:49 Right? And-

Chris Williamson 10:51 But that makes people uncomfortable, as you have identified.

Rick Glassman 10:54 Uh, I, I... Okay.

Chris Williamson 10:57 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 10:57 But then I guess we'll just play a different

Rick Glassman 11:01 game.

Chris Williamson 11:02 I like the, uh, assessment of sort of why are we doing this thing?

Rick Glassman 11:06 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 11:06 And what is the reason that this particular interaction's go: "How are you feeling right now?" Like, that's a fucking wonderful question. Like, how are you feeling?

Rick Glassman 11:13 Yeah. You know-

Chris Williamson 11:14 Not, how are you doing? Like, how are you feeling?

Rick Glassman 11:17 Um, I, I would like to, uh, take that and raise you-

Chris Williamson 11:22 [chuckles]

Rick Glassman 11:23 ... a telling somebody how you're feeling. "Hey, I'm, I'm, I'm comfortable. It's just a little cold. Could we-- How are you?"

Chris Williamson 11:31 Mm.

Rick Glassman 11:31 Like, I think also... 'Cause I ask people, I ask people-- I mean, I feel this way with dates. I talked about this in my act now, so I don't wanna, like, do too much about it. But, like, for the longest time, I wouldn't-- I have so many fears of going in for a first kiss, and they're not even that they're not gonna ki- wanna kiss me back or that they won't kiss me. My big fear is, what if I go in to kiss somebody, and they kiss me back because it's easier?

Chris Williamson 11:56 Pity.

Rick Glassman 11:57 E- not even pity, just not wanting to be un- I mean, maybe, but, like, n- I, I think more realistically, it's 'cause I guess maybe I don't see myself as somebody who people pity, but, like, "Uh, it was easier just to, mm, go like this."... like, just I'll kiss him. It's not that big of a deal.

Chris Williamson 12:12 But what is the motivation that you fear? What would be the ultimate- what's at the core of that?

Rick Glassman 12:15 It's the, it's the same thing of people when people say, "Ah, how you doing?" "Good, thanks. How are you?"

Chris Williamson 12:20 Right.

Rick Glassman 12:20 Are, are you interested, and are you good? It's fine. It's just a, it's just a call and response.

Chris Williamson 12:24 It's a procedural kiss.

Rick Glassman 12:26 Yeah, it's like, "Oh, you know, we went on a couple of dates. I'll, you know, what-" It, it's easier to kiss somebody and then just say, "Have a good night," for some people, than it is to be like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, I don't want to-

Chris Williamson 12:37 Mm

Rick Glassman 12:37 ... set a boundary, say how I feel."

Chris Williamson 12:39 Mm.

Rick Glassman 12:41 I take things at-- I used to take things at face value until I realized that I, I can't, and now I don't know when I can, so I'm just skeptical all the time. And like, so the only way I feel that I get enough information is to ask so many questions. Um, uh, "When we kissed, it wasn't a long kiss. Um, I kinda wanted to kiss you more, but I don't know if you wanted to make out. I'm not asking you to make out with me right now. But, like, if later on, if we're kissing a little , then do you find, like, is it okay if we make out?" You know, and some people might be like: "What the fuck are you saying to me?" You know, and some people were raised by The Simpsons.

Chris Williamson 13:16 Mm-hmm. [laughing]

Rick Glassman 13:16 And when you are able to ask a lot of questions, and that they like that-

Chris Williamson 13:20 Yeah

Rick Glassman 13:20 ... then they ask questions. Oh, my thank you for... I was dating a girl who-- I hate spoilers. I hate spoil- if I know I'm gonna see something, I don't even want to see the trailer. And sometimes people give spoilers, and they don't realize what they're spoiling. "I'm not, I'm not saying anything. I'm just saying at the end, I was a little confused." Well, now I know, you know, the dreidel doesn't stop spinning. Like, what- don't tell me anything. So we're watching a show that she had already seen the first couple episodes, and she says something that I don't think she realizes. Now I know something. This is what I do, okay? I know he's a bad guy now. I- the stakes weren't that high, but I'm still like, you know, if you're watching a sporting event, "Fuck!" You know, something happens, you get upset. Like: "Are you okay?" "No, it's fine. I just... They missed the big bucket," or whatever the hell. I reacted quite passionately. She-

Chris Williamson 14:05 How many dates in was this?

Rick Glassman 14:07 I mean, we've been dating for over a year.

Chris Williamson 14:08 Okay, okay.

Rick Glassman 14:08 I mean, she knows who I am.

Chris Williamson 14:09 Okay, right, right, right.

Rick Glassman 14:11 Um, [chuckles] "No, it wasn't this. It was this," and she was like, she was acting in a way for my benefit, in a way to be like: "Oh, no, no, you actually don't know that that's what it is because here's some red herrings." And I don't eat fish, and I mean that literally and metaphorically. So I'm like: "No, no, no, you're acting right now. I know that 'cause..." And I'm just like, I-- to me, it's like we're playing. I'm not happy that you scored a bucket on me, but it's still like I, this is connection for me. I still like, like, "No, no, no, 'cause I noticed this." All right, whatever. We sit down, and maybe a minute goes by, and, and I just, I don't know what changed. I just know the I, I don't re- consciously recognize why it changed. I just know, notice the energy changed. And I asked if you're, like, "What happened?" And she said that I hurt her feelings. And I immediately started, like, literally crying. I don't just mean I felt bad. I mean, tears were coming down my face. At the moment, I didn't recognize it, but I soon thereafter did. But, like... And I, "I'm so sorry," and I apologized. Um, when I realized the reason I was crying wasn't specifically 'cause I hurt her feelings as much as I had no idea that I hurt her feelings.

Chris Williamson 15:28 Mm.

Rick Glassman 15:28 Um, I had no i- like, I'm an adult. I'm dating this person. I had no idea I hurt her feelings, which just made me feel bad about myself and, like, just, like... Sometimes things like that happen, and I go back and think about how f- fucking clueless I was as a kid. And, like, I have a bit that I say on stage now where, uh, I didn't have friends growing up, but I didn't know that until I turned 30. I just thought everybody was busy all the time. Like, no, people just made excuses and stuff. And, like-- and also the point, the reason I bring that up is because if I didn't say to her, "Hey, what just happened?" She might not have said, "You hurt my feelings." So in the midst of things, if somebody says, "Hey, I don't like this," I would be like: "Thank you for telling me."

Chris Williamson 16:11 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 16:11 "But if you don't tell me that, I'm gonna keep punching, you know? I'm gonna keep, like, doing what I think we're supposed to be doing." So I like when people ask questions. I like when people tell me how they feel. I sometimes have given myself the responsibility to, like, ask numerous times how somebody feels, like what you said.

Chris Williamson 16:29 Mm.

Rick Glassman 16:29 But I'm still not convinced I'm gonna get the answer.

Chris Williamson 16:33 It feels like you're excavating a little bit to try and find the boundaries of what is-

Rick Glassman 16:38 Mm

Chris Williamson 16:38 ... and is not acceptable behavior.

Rick Glassman 16:41 Acceptable what? Uh, for the other person.

Chris Williamson 16:43 Exactly.

Rick Glassman 16:43 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 16:43 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is this okay?

Rick Glassman 16:44 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 16:44 Was that okay? Is that gonna be okay?

Rick Glassman 16:46 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 16:46 And is this because, in retrospect, you realize that there were an infinite number of situations that you had sort of plowed through-

Rick Glassman 16:54 Yes

Chris Williamson 16:54 ... believing one world and the rest of the world seeing a totally different one?

Rick Glassman 16:58 Yeah. I came into some self-awareness about eight years ago, and I learned things about myself, and I learned how much I'm missing stuff. Um, for a couple of years thereafter, I was very much that, kinda like what you suggested I might be. That's why I was curious why you said that. Is this okay? Am I-- Should I not... Am I, am I... I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You know, I'm, like, using my turning signal when it's a right turn only. Like, I'm just always making sure. I'm just joking. You know, I would say stuff like that, and, like, what I realized was before, I was clueless about how everyone was feeling, and I thought I was- I thought every- 'cause I, I grew up, um, with, uh, very supportive parents, and I believed them. I don't know if they were right, but I'm, I'm the funniest, I'm the most charming, everyone loves me. A- and this wasn't the case at all. And I was so much happier thinking everybody loved me than when I realized I'm just, I'm bothering people. Um, but now, you know, I graduated into knowing that I bother people, so how do I control that? And what I learned is I, I still couldn't. I still did all of the things I thought I was supposed to do and checking in, and I didn't feel anything different other than, uh, low, uh, lower self-worth. That's not me saying that, "Who cares what other people think?" I very much care what other people think. The difference is, um-... uh, to care and to consider it without necessarily prioritizing it if you disagree. So like, if I come-- if I hurt your feelings, I can't disagree with that. That's something I want to know, so I could do better. Um, if you say, "Hey, you know, don't put the hat and the keys there," if I wanted them there, for whatever reason, it's a hat that I'm promoting something or whatever, I would consider what you were saying, I'd disagree with you, and I'd have a-- I'd challenge it.

Chris Williamson 18:45 Mm.

Rick Glassman 18:46 And we'd go back and forth, and ultimately, we figure out what we'd do. Um, so I've kind of hurdled that hump of like, "I'm annoying everybody," and more come out the other end of, "I'm probably going to annoy people." And just not-- I mean, there's only so much that is in my control. Um, but my friends in my circle, uh, I don't think it's a coincidence that they're all people who are able to, "You're being loud." You know, they could tell me I'm being loud, and then I could be like, "Oh, sorry."

Chris Williamson 19:14 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 19:14 And I could be quiet, you know?

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Chris Williamson 20:31 That's a very quick, uh, alchemization of that lesson. Uh, I've learned that people don't necessarily see me or the world the way that I see them-

Rick Glassman 20:43 Mm

Chris Williamson 20:43 ... or the world. And again, you can try to change yourself in one way. Like, I'll make sure that everybody else is okay before I continue to do this thing, or you can do the other one, which is I'm just going to become comfortable with being corrected by people and try and sort of proactively seek as much correction as-

Rick Glassman 21:04 Yeah

Chris Williamson 21:04 ... possible by instigating it and also by picking friends who don't even need me to instigate it. They're like, "Hey, Rick, shut the fuck up, dude. Like, dude, let's just chill out," or-

Rick Glassman 21:11 Yeah

Chris Williamson 21:11 ... "It's whatever, but it's whatever." They, they're your, um, guidance system.

Rick Glassman 21:14 They're also... It's those-- It's not just me picking them; it's the people that are okay with me, so they're also picking me, you know?

Chris Williamson 21:20 Because anybody that wasn't okay with that wouldn't be able to-

Rick Glassman 21:23 I'm too much for them or not enough for whatever.

Chris Williamson 21:25 It wouldn't last long.

Rick Glassman 21:25 Yeah. I found that, that valuing the information of, "You're being too loud," or this or whatever, as information, not as, as, as criticism, really is a great cheat to kind of like surpass the ego of like, if someone says I'm being too loud, I don't think, "Oh, I must be too loud. I'm a loud person." No, I'm not! You know, and then it's like you're debating yourself, but when somebody says you're being loud, what they're saying is for, for their ears, this is an uncomfortable volume. I can't dispute that. That has nothing to do with me.

Chris Williamson 21:53 Mm.

Rick Glassman 21:54 The only thing that has to do with me is what I choose to do with that information. I very, very much seek that, um, not just the information, but to surround myself with people who are generous enough to offer it. The-- I think a simple analogy, I've said this on my podcast before, but is like, when somebody says you have a booger in your nose, you're like, "Oh, I want to be around this person."

Chris Williamson 22:14 Mm.

Rick Glassman 22:15 I might not be happy that there's been a booger in my nose-

Chris Williamson 22:17 Mm

Rick Glassman 22:18 ... but I'll be happier than looking at it later and seeing that it's been there the whole time, you know?

Chris Williamson 22:22 No, I like-

Rick Glassman 22:23 Um

Chris Williamson 22:23 ... this, this question of, um, self-deception. Are we aware of why we do the things that we do? And then we want to understand somebody else because maybe we want to connect with them, or we want to be better person ourselves. It's like, "You broke up with me. Can you tell me why? Before you leave, on your way, b- when, before you get the black bag, can you tell me why you broke up with me? Like, what was the-

Rick Glassman 22:41 I would prefer if you let me know why before you decided to break up with me.

Chris Williamson 22:43 That would be preferable, but, you know, we've-- this is, that's not the scene. The scene is that they've got the black bags out.

Rick Glassman 22:48 I'm just arguing that this person probably won't be able to tell me why.

Chris Williamson 22:52 Because they, uh, they-

Rick Glassman 22:53 They would've-- I would've known by now.

Chris Williamson 22:55 Mm, maybe, but perhaps they had, uh, they didn't feel like they had the permission to do it. Perhaps they were scared. It was a them thing, not a you thing. How about that?

Rick Glassman 23:05 Okay, deal. [chuckles] Question for you: I've got a little out of... I, like, I, I, I wasn't present with you for, like, uh, uh, thirty seconds. I heard you, but, like-

Chris Williamson 23:13 Mm

Rick Glassman 23:13 ... when I moved like this, I was aware. Are we able to-- How's our focus? Are we-- Is this annoying if I'm doing here and here?

Chris Williamson 23:18 I don't know.

Rick Glassman 23:19 Okay.

Chris Williamson 23:20 You're all right.

Rick Glassman 23:21 Nice. I love talking about this kind of stuff. I love talking about this kind of stuff with somebody who, uh, one, we don't know each other, so you. But, like, when it's, like, somebody that you might be work-- like, you know you're gonna be seeing this person a lot-

Chris Williamson 23:35 Mm

Rick Glassman 23:35 ... and you're gonna be dating them, working with them, or whatever. And like: Hey, let's, could we just talk about how we're wired for just, like, hours? [laughing] You know what I'm saying? And then we could forget about it because then when something comes up, it'll be like: "Oh, this is what I was talking about before. Thank you for letting me know," or, "Would you mind..." Just almost like marinating in potential shorthand that could come out later.

Chris Williamson 23:58 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 23:59 Um, I think it would be really cool to, like, have a, a one page that you continue to doctor, you add to it, you take away, of all your faults. Not your faults, things that you're a- a- admitting necessarily, or faults that are like, "Here's things that I'm ashamed of, but I don't want to be." I mean, faults that benefit the other person to know. You know, like-... I sometimes don't make space for other people, 'cause I interrupt a lot. Um, it doesn't mean I'm not interested in you, but you might sometimes have to check me and say, "Hey, Rick, I wasn't done yet." You know, certain things like that, I think, like, as a name tag, I think would be just a really cool way of meeting people.

Chris Williamson 24:31 Here's, here's a one-page, uh, introduction. This is the-- yeah, this is your induction day. It's your induction day to our friendship, our relationship.

Rick Glassman 24:39 Mm.

Chris Williamson 24:39 Uh, please make sure, uh, you really need to check out, uh, section four.

Rick Glassman 24:42 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 24:42 The bottom, that is kind of crucial. Sometimes people skip over that one, and if they do, it usually ends up being an o- an issue down the line. Um, no, I, I think that's great. Yeah, I, uh, I take criticism about anything personally. Like, I get defensive if it feels like I'm being attacked, even when I'm not being attacked. Uh, I, um, go quiet if there's a, an argument going on. That doesn't mean that I don't want to talk about it, it's just that my response sometimes takes longer to happen, or I'm sometimes real fast with my responses, and that doesn't mean that I know what I'm talking about. Sometimes I just want to talk to fill the space so that I can think.

Rick Glassman 25:15 Great. I'm feeling emotional.

Chris Williamson 25:17 Yep.

Rick Glassman 25:17 I mean, you know, like, somebody says it, and then when that thing happens-

Chris Williamson 25:20 Yeah

Rick Glassman 25:20 ... you're like: "Oh, that's that thing!" And that's hopefully what happens as you get to know somebody. You don't just get to know the pleasures, you get to know the obstacles. Um-

Chris Williamson 25:30 Well, we fall in love with that. I think-

Rick Glassman 25:33 Fall in love with what part?

Chris Williamson 25:34 We fall in love with both, but what we don't fall in love with are all of the ways that people are like everybody else. We fall i- we fall in love with people's uniquenesses, uh, and that goes on both sides. A perfect example, my friend George's mum, she hates fighting, does not like physical fighting at all. Doesn't like UFC, doesn't like watching her ki- her boys fight when they were kids. And she was in the car with George's younger brother, driving through the UK, and she saw two teenage boys sort of squaring up to each other by the side of, like, a pavement, walking home from school or something. This is... She's in the middle of traffic, stops the car in the middle of traffic, gets out of the car, runs across the road, over traffic, to the pavement to be like: "No fighting, no!" She was like fucking Cillian Murphy in Peaky Blinders, "No fucking fighting! No fucking fighting." And she's in the middle, and her- his brother was on the phone to him at the time, going, "Mum has just got out the... We're in the middle of traffic. She stopped the car. There's cars behind us, they're beeping. She's in the middle of this fight between these two teenagers, telling them to stop." It's like, at her funeral, people are not going to say that she was the sort of person who turned up on time or like, you know, made an a, a, a acceptable flan. They're gonna say she was the sort of woman that stopped a car in the middle of traffic to stop a fight between two strangers that she didn't know. Like, that's where we fall in love with people.

Rick Glassman 26:53 Also, would've been a good clip.

Chris Williamson 26:55 Would've been a good clip. But I think we fall in love... Non- f- you remember NFTs, when everyone was, like, into NFTs? Non-fungible humans is the same. It's like, okay, what's non-fungible-

Rick Glassman 27:06 Mm

Chris Williamson 27:06 ... about this person? Oh, well, that's what I fall in love with. Because by design, if you can find it anywhere, like, why this person and not the next one or the next one or the next one?

Rick Glassman 27:16 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 27:16 This isn't an argument for, like, be as weird and unique performatively as possible, but embrace the bits of you that have little tumors sticking out of them, like the spiky bits and the, the, like, little divots and stuff that are out of this smooth shape. Because if you try and smooth all of those things off, I think you make yourself into a shape that, like, everybody else can perceive.

Rick Glassman 27:36 Yeah, I, I agree. I also think that, uh, on, on the, on the other end of that is some things, let's not be too proud and think that we shouldn't shave them down.

Chris Williamson 27:47 Mm.

Rick Glassman 27:47 You know? Like, I think there's a, there's an art, I think there's... Excuse me. I think there's a craft to the, the line be- recognizing and making efficient the line between self-love and the want for self-improvement, and they're not mutually exclusive. But this idea of, "Hey, this is me, take it or leave it," um, yeah, s- some- a- o- once, once you've broken it down to its core, and this is what it is, there's only, you know, like, there's only... I, I'm always gonna have neurosis, but like, so I make people, uh, when I go into my home, I take off my clothes, and I change into my indoor clothes.

Chris Williamson 28:26 All clothes, including?

Rick Glassman 28:28 Anything that's been outside and touched something. So if I go walk my dog in my indoor clothes, if I don't lean up against something or sit on a chair-

Chris Williamson 28:36 Damn

Rick Glassman 28:36 ... they're still indoor clothes. But e- even if I just sat in my car-

Chris Williamson 28:39 What if it's raining?

Rick Glassman 28:40 Depends how wet it is. I'm okay with rain.

Chris Williamson 28:42 Okay.

Rick Glassman 28:42 Um, it's, it's, it's touching something that I don't know what touched it before, and it's not about germs. It's not that logical. It's just, "Oh, this is outdoor now." Like, so, [chuckles] so, like, I've had, uh, uh... So that's- it's, it's a pain in the ass, but it's, it's my choice.

Chris Williamson 28:56 [laughing]

Rick Glassman 28:57 But then when people come over my place, I'm-

Chris Williamson 29:00 Don't forget to bring a change of clothes.

Rick Glassman 29:02 Yeah, I'm making my thing your burden.

Chris Williamson 29:05 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 29:05 And I'll always have, until I don't, but right now, this is an issue. How could I... "Well, fuck it, this is who I am, and don't come over," versus, "How could I help this other person not have to cater to me?" So there are different ways of doing this. The way that I found is the most efficient is I just got blankets all over the place for you to sit on.

Chris Williamson 29:23 [laughing]

Rick Glassman 29:24 It's obnoxious.

Chris Williamson 29:24 That's a house condom.

Rick Glassman 29:26 Yeah, it's a, it's a house, it's a house condom. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 29:28 [laughing]

Rick Glassman 29:28 It's a house condom. I would prefer to get to know you well enough to where you could take your clothes off and put on something else, but I'm like an old Black woman, but instead of plastic things, it's just blankets, and I'm constantly washing.

Chris Williamson 29:38 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 29:39 So I, uh, I, I'm, I'm dating somebody, and they're accepting of this. They come over, and they're like: "Hey, I, I took a shower, and I just changed into brand-new clothes." And I'm like, "Uh, I recognize this. I'm appreciative. More than that, I'm, I'm, I'm so sorry that you felt you had to do this, but I don't think you understand. You put those clothes on, and you sat in your car, where you've also sat after you were at the gym in those clothes. Hey, those are outdoor clothes. Let's, let's just sit on some blankets." So, like, how... I am this thing. I accept this of myself. I don't love it. I'm, I'm working on it, but I have accepted this is what it is. If I were to accept what this is and just lean into that entirely, you'd be wearing f- a fucking hazmat suit every time you came in my house, which then makes it worse and worse and worse. So by me letting people into my home in their outdoor clothes, and they sit on the blanket, that's, it's a l- then sometimes they sit on, like, somebody... On my podcast, I have blankets for everybody.

Chris Williamson 30:35 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 30:36 ... somebody will sit off the blanket for a second. It used to be, "Ah!" You know, like, "I need a new couch." [chuckles] You know-

Chris Williamson 30:41 Yeah

Rick Glassman 30:41 ... now it's like I don't even react that way. Now, I don't like it, but it's, "Hey, could you do me a favor? Could you..." And they go, "Oh, I'm so sorry." Like, "It's all good." And now I'm not losing my mind.

Chris Williamson 30:51 That's why it's important to tell them before about the things, because if that thing comes up-

Rick Glassman 30:55 Correct

Chris Williamson 30:55 ... and you have to do the explaining and the enforcement at the same time, "Oh, well, fucking what? I wasn't even aware of this. This feels like a law. I'm being pulled over by the police to enforce a law I didn't know existed."

Rick Glassman 31:05 I actually learned that I have to tell them before, not because of that, but because they... I do a lot of... I'm a silly boy, so they just think I'm making a joke. So it's not that they're- I'm-

Chris Williamson 31:16 No, no, no, no. This one, this is a real one.

Rick Glassman 31:18 How do you... Yeah.

Chris Williamson 31:18 It sounds like the thing I said just before that wasn't-

Rick Glassman 31:21 But this one's real.

Chris Williamson 31:22 This one's real.

Rick Glassman 31:22 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 31:23 Yeah, it's the boy who cried wolf, but for comedians.

Rick Glassman 31:26 Yeah, it's the boy who cried couch.

Chris Williamson 31:27 Yeah, [chuckles] the boy who cried blanket.

Rick Glassman 31:29 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 31:31 In other news, I've been drinking AG1 every morning for years now. Dude, you tried to fastball me that. That was down the plate, and I've just Shohei Ohtani'd it. I've been drinking AG1 for as long as I can remember. It is the best all-in-one drink that I've ever found, and that's why I'm such a fan of them, and that's why I partnered with them as well. I have got my mom to start taking it, my dad to start taking it, and all of my friends as well, and if I found anything better, I would switch, but I haven't. Why do you keep throwing it at the mic? Stop throwing it at the mic. See? Anyway, uh, over seventy-five vitamins, minerals, and whole food source ingredients. It's got probiotics and prebiotics. It's also NSF certified, meaning that even Olympians can use it, and... In the throat. In the throat! How dare you? Rick Glassman is good. I hit the f- I- [laughing] I hit the...

Rick Glassman 32:18 Oh. [chuckles]

Chris Williamson 32:18 You fucker! Ah. Ah! This isn't even an ad read anymore, it's just a war zone. Oh, okay, okay. Anyway, if you, too, want something to throw at your friends or a tasty, uh, blend of seventy-five vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and whole food sourced ingredients designed to drink first thing in the morning in one scoop, it's here. Go to drinkag1.com/modernwisdom. For stuff. [coughs] Thank you.

Chris Williamson 32:50 Um, yeah, you've got this great line, uh, "The self-love movement is beautiful and necessary, but not at the expense of growth." And I think that, that, um-

Rick Glassman 32:57 There's a research guy over here.

Chris Williamson 32:58 Well, look, I t- uh, wee-

Rick Glassman 33:00 It's a new clip. It was on a clip. It wasn't a deep dive.

Chris Williamson 33:04 I think it's interesting that in my world, where I come from, the insecure overachiever, hustle grindset kind of background-

Rick Glassman 33:12 Insecure overachiever, does that mean you're overachieving because you're insecure of where you're at?

Chris Williamson 33:16 Yes. Yeah.

Rick Glassman 33:17 Well, congrats.

Chris Williamson 33:18 Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can build-

Rick Glassman 33:19 Now we're now recording at Disneyland.

Chris Williamson 33:20 Yeah, you can build, you can build big shit as somebody that just desperately wants to be liked by people. Um, but that, that side of the balance board requires more of the self-love stuff. It's like, hey, dude, fucking y- let me give you this idea. It's called productivity, uh, productivity debt. So every morning you wake up believing that you're already overdrawn with your day's production, and only if you absolutely flawlessly nail your entire day's work-

Rick Glassman 33:49 What is overdrawn? Like you have too much to do?

Chris Williamson 33:51 Uh, that there is some sort of cosmic karmic debt that you need to repay in terms of output productively, and only if you do lots and lots of work that day-

Rick Glassman 34:02 I see

Chris Williamson 34:02 ... will you claw yourself back up to, at best, zero.

Rick Glassman 34:05 Right.

Chris Williamson 34:06 Not one or ten or a hundred, but you start at minus some number, and whatever that number is, is the exact number of as much work as you can do today flawlessly. And if you take too much time off, you realize, "I finished the day on minus two-"

Rick Glassman 34:20 Mm-hmm

Chris Williamson 34:20 ... like or minus five or minus ten or whatever. Um, that's kind of the side of the world, I think, that drawn to some of the stuff that, uh, I have talked about in the past, although that's morphing somewhat and has morphed over maybe the last sort of two years. Uh, but we spent a lot of time talking about life hacks and, and, and self-improvement and training and so on and so forth, and that's great, and I loved it, right? Personal growth's been fucking wonderful for me. Um, but you can sort of go too far on that. You know those, um, balance board things? It's like a skateboard deck, and there's sort of a cylinder below it, and you can imagine that you're standing on it, and you're always sort of doing this.

Rick Glassman 34:57 A teeter-totter?

Chris Williamson 34:58 Is that what that's called?

Rick Glassman 34:59 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 34:59 Okay, teeter-totter. Thank you.

Rick Glassman 35:01 Skate... That's, yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:02 British.

Rick Glassman 35:02 That's what you're talking about, right? You're sitting on, and then you... Like, if we were on one right now, I would go like this.

Chris Williamson 35:08 Oh, no, no, no, no, that would be a seesaw. So imagine a skateboard deck, and imagine just a, a, like a-

Rick Glassman 35:14 What's the difference between a teeter-totter and a seesaw?

Chris Williamson 35:16 I think it's the same thing. It's just the British version.

Rick Glassman 35:18 No, it's a joke.

Chris Williamson 35:19 Oh.

Rick Glassman 35:20 No, it sounded like one.

Chris Williamson 35:21 Damn it.

Rick Glassman 35:21 So, so I don't know what you're saying.

Chris Williamson 35:23 Skateboard deck. Yeah? Imagine. Skateboard deck's like this, okay?

Rick Glassman 35:26 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 35:27 And there's a cylinder that's running underneath it, and you were to stand on the skateboard deck, so you would be doing this to balance.

Rick Glassman 35:32 Okay.

Chris Williamson 35:33 Do you have this visual in your mind?

Rick Glassman 35:34 I think.

Chris Williamson 35:35 Okay. At no point are you actually balanced, right? Or you could pick any f- on a balance beam, at no point are you static.

Rick Glassman 35:43 I know what you're talking about.

Chris Williamson 35:45 You're always going to be making micro adjustments, even when you're like, "Oh, I'm, like, really stable."

Rick Glassman 35:50 I know this isn't necessary because I get it, but I... What I'm picturing is when I- because, uh, when you twist your ankle and you do rehab, you're on a board-

Chris Williamson 35:57 Mm-hmm

Rick Glassman 35:57 ... with a ball at the bottom, and you're just constantly-

Chris Williamson 36:00 Yep

Rick Glassman 36:00 ... oh, like, if it's too left, you gotta go right, and you gotta do this.

Chris Williamson 36:02 Yes.

Rick Glassman 36:02 Okay.

Chris Williamson 36:03 Exactly the same.

Rick Glassman 36:03 All right, let's go.

Chris Williamson 36:03 At no point is your foot completely flat. Even when it's really flat, it's still just making little micro adjustments here and there. And I kind of get the sense that this self-love and growth tension thing that we're talking about, well, you know, accept who you are. Don't whip yourself so much that you're permanently miserable or always in a-

Rick Glassman 36:24 Yeah

Chris Williamson 36:24 ... sense of lack or never feel good enough. But also, don't be so accepting of yourself that you make your pathology somebody else's burden-

Rick Glassman 36:32 Mm-hmm

Chris Williamson 36:32 ... that you are never, uh, galvanized sufficiently to actually go and fucking do something with your... Right? Okay, so-

Rick Glassman 36:39 Good work

Chris Williamson 36:40 ... on one end, you have a victim, and on the other end, you have sort of like an unrelenting tyrant of the self. And, uh-

Rick Glassman 36:47 Mm

Chris Williamson 36:47 ... I think that the tension between those two is interesting.

Rick Glassman 36:50 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 36:50 And where do you come from? Which culture do you come from? And-

36:53 ... where are you on the balance board right now?

Rick Glassman 36:54 I think about that often before I go on stage. Um, uh, uh, I'm s- I'm assuming you know, but p- I'm a stand-up comedian, so when I go on, uh, stage to do comedy. And, um, I, I, uh, I don't know if nervous is the best word, but it's, it's, it's an- it's, it's the best- it's the best way I can think of to explain the feeling. It's a feeling of nervousness, but it's, it's almost like, um, the, the space between what am I gonna do, and I've been doing this many times, and I always feel this way. I know it'll be fine, right?

Chris Williamson 37:27 Mm.

Rick Glassman 37:27 And, um, my mom says to me sometimes before a show, at least she used to, now she s- she said, "Be funny," just like a thing to say.

Chris Williamson 37:36 Mm.

Rick Glassman 37:36 And I would always... I say- and now she- I say, "I, I'll try. I mean, maybe, but the only thing that's in my control is to be present." And it sounds corny, but I really say that to myself because if I go in with the responsibility of being funny, what if I'm not? And I very well might not be, and if that's what I need to be, then I might fail. Not that there's a problem with failing, but I don't want to set myself up for this idea of I might be failing, when I'm just trying to get in a mindset. If I'm present, I, I believe that that's the best opportunity I have to be funny. So if I'm not gonna be funny today, chances are it's 'cause I wasn't present, and if I was present and not funny, then I wasn't gonna be funny anyway.

Chris Williamson 38:14 Wow!

Rick Glassman 38:14 S-

Chris Williamson 38:14 So you've found the thing which is further upstream of the outcome that you're actually looking for-

Rick Glassman 38:20 Yes

Chris Williamson 38:20 ... and you're optimizing for that thing.

Rick Glassman 38:22 And one of the reasons I'm thinking of that is one of the reasons that a- that, that one of the ways it helps me do that is, well, you know, it's easy to say to be present. Um, uh, as a like affirmations, this idea of looking in the mirror and saying, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh darn it, people love me," whatever. Like, if I don't believe that, then the guy- then he's not gonna believe it. So what can I believe? And what I can believe is this idea of this, like, acceptance versus getting yourself better.

Chris Williamson 38:48 Mm.

Rick Glassman 38:48 I know I can be better. I want to be better, and I want to try and be better, but I'm about to go on stage in one minute. This is the best I could be right now.

Chris Williamson 38:57 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 38:57 So this isn't about being better.

Chris Williamson 38:59 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 38:59 This is about fully accepting this is my... This is my best. I have... And then tomorrow I could be like, "Well, I wasn't prepared." I remember I- m- a, a buddy of mine, uh, David Sullivan, who also is an actor, and he coaches me as an a, a... When I... For, for things as an actor. And I remember years ago, he was helping me for this audition, and I was just like, I didn't learn my lines because I'll just learn them with him. Um, and that's fine sometimes, but like, the amount of time we had, and then we did the audition, and I'm just like, I j- just didn't know, like, I just... I'm, I'm not present 'cause I'm thinking about my lines.

Chris Williamson 39:33 Mm.

Rick Glassman 39:33 And it's not that big of a deal. It wasn't that deep of a thing. It was just it clicked for me. 'Cause he goes, he goes, uh, "How does that feel?" And like, I was like: "Yeah, I understand." Like he's parenting me. He goes, "Just no, don't, don't put yourself in a situation to feel that way next time." Now, I've been in situations where I didn't prepare enough for an audition or whatever. I'm not saying that like, it's changed my life, but it offered that perspective of, if there's something that you could do about it, do about it. Do it that way next time, but don't sit in shame and like, "Maybe I, I fucked. I shouldn't..." This is what- where we are right now. Do this and recognize if you don't like that feeling, try and change it next time. If you don't mind it, then you won't. So when I go on stage and I'm thinking like, "What am I gonna do?" It's like, the best I could possibly be, which might not be great, is to just remove that thing. Because then, you know, I'm sitting here, and you're talking, I'm like, "Am I in focus?" Whether I'm in focus or not, m- is it my responsibility? Maybe it doesn't matter that much either way, but until I address it-

Chris Williamson 40:30 Yeah

Rick Glassman 40:30 ... you know, so, um, yeah. I think self-acceptance is a beautiful thing to do for today, and then tomorrow, look at who you were, and do you like that? It's been, um, it's been a f- a very, very intentional journey for me over the past eight years-

Chris Williamson 40:51 Mm

Rick Glassman 40:52 ... of like learning, is this okay?

Chris Williamson 40:57 What?

Rick Glassman 40:57 It's this. Um, is it okay that I'm coming... And this, this is, uh, not a real, uh, u- um, I'm, I'm making something up right now, the answer. Um, at least not consciously. But is it okay that I'm coming in here and talking s- too much, uh, talking about feelings, not doing bits? A- is it, uh, should I have worn my sunglasses because I th- I think I have a stye on my eye that's showing? Like, all of these things, like, I don't wanna care about anything. I don't wanna care about anything, but then that's too far the other way.

Chris Williamson 41:28 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 41:29 So, like, constantly doing this and going like... And ultimately, and this is a, a maybe a corny thing, and, and it's a, a Snapple bottle, but like, I love who I am. I love who I am so much. I might be wrong.

Chris Williamson 41:46 [laughing]

Rick Glassman 41:46 I also think I'm so funny. I do. I'm on stage sometimes, and I think I'm so funny. I also know I, I might be wrong. I don't want to not feel that way, but I, I don't wanna feel like, "No, I'm not that funny." But I also don't wanna think that you all think this, because then there's nothing to, nothing to grow from, you know?

Chris Williamson 42:07 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 42:07 So this constant thing of like, I love who I am. Am I being received accurately? And if so, you don't love me, that's okay. If you're not receiving me accurately, is there a better way I could have set this up? Is there a, a one-page that I need to give you? What do I need to let you know to give me the best opportunity for us to enjoy each other?

Chris Williamson 42:28 Mm.

Rick Glassman 42:29 And it's exhausting, and that's where it's like, at a certain point... Did you watch The Simpsons? You know, at a certain point, it's like, your frequency isn't better or worse than mine, but it might be different. And if we're like this, then I'm gonna have to meet you here, or you're gonna have to meet me here. But if it's close enough, you know... So at a s- that's where I'm at in my life now of like recognizing-... if this person's close to my frequency, I think I maybe need to make some adjustments. If they're not close to my frequency, I-

Chris Williamson 43:02 What do we do?

Rick Glassman 43:03 Yeah, I don't need to learn your amazing vocabulary for a language that I don't even speak.

Chris Williamson 43:07 Mm.

Rick Glassman 43:07 You know, so like, teach me things if we're speaking the same language, and if we're not speaking the same language and we're working together, or you're the sister of somebody I, I'm in a relationship, like, then you have to do that thing where you dress a certain way, and you, you squint and you lean forward and you like, "Oh, that's so int- you know, that's nice," and you, you give a firm handshake. And it's just, it's not consciously manipulative, but I do think it's like... I also talk about on stage this idea of like, when people say, "How are you doing?" I used to really struggle with it. I would be like: "What do you want from me? You know, like, I don't want to tell you. I don't want to talk about that. I don't-- We're just walking our dogs." But I've learned it's a call and response, and when someone says, "How you doing?" They're not asking how you are necessarily. They're just letting you know that they see you for a minute, and then you say, "Good, thanks. How are you?" Uh, in therapy, I was like, it was a, it was a, uh, call it a challenge, maybe it was homework to, like, just start saying, "Good, thanks. How are you?" Even if you feel it's lying, just see how maybe you get used to it, you know? It's like people sitting on a blanket instead of changing their clothes. So I do it, and sometimes someone will say, "How are you doing?" And I go, "Good, thanks. How are you?" And they go, "Good. How are you?"

Chris Williamson 44:16 [laughing]

Rick Glassman 44:16 And I, and I'm like, "You started it." You know, this is, this is fucking crazy. I'm r- right? This is crazy!

Chris Williamson 44:24 Have you ever seen someone do, uh, or has it ever happened to you where someone said, "Oh, happy birthday," and you go, "Oh, yeah, you too."

Rick Glassman 44:29 That's actually a Brian Regan joke.

Chris Williamson 44:31 Is it?

Rick Glassman 44:31 Do you know who that is?

Chris Williamson 44:32 No.

Rick Glassman 44:32 Yeah, when someone says something, they go, "You too," and you're like: "Ah, yeah." Um, yeah, that's just that innate feeling of like, I better give them what they gave me.

Chris Williamson 44:39 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 44:40 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You do know that you're kind of the inversion of most people's self-work, right? That you having to learn not to say what the thing is. It's like, well, to be honest, like I sort of woke up with a sty in my eye, and I've got this conversation to do later on today-

Rick Glassman 44:55 What's the opposite with that, that you're saying?

Chris Williamson 44:56 Good, thanks. How are you? Right, you, it's-- from what you're saying to me, it sounds like your set point is: I don't do small talk. I, struggling intensely with small talk and the social mores and the typical dance that most people do in the elevator or with the dog is one that I am having to consciously teach myself to do-

Rick Glassman 45:18 Mm-hmm

Chris Williamson 45:19 ... to understand that these are the mannerisms of just, like, normal human shallow communication.

Rick Glassman 45:24 So-

Chris Williamson 45:24 Most people have to do the opposite.

Rick Glassman 45:26 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 45:26 They have to de-train that stuff.

Rick Glassman 45:28 Well, a kid does that. That's, uh, it's like, um, it's like a child.

Chris Williamson 45:31 Mm.

Rick Glassman 45:32 Like a child, you say, "Please." You know, you have to condition-

Chris Williamson 45:36 No!

Rick Glassman 45:36 Yeah. Well, then we're not gonna, you know, we're not gonna go to the strip club or whatever. You know, like, you have to teach kids to do stuff, and there's pros and cons to that. A lot of people say, "I love kids because they'll just tell, tell you the truth." Um, I don't believe that telling the truth is an excuse to be unkind. Uh, there's definitely tact to that, but, like, not telling the truth because you're afraid of how somebody might receive you, I think is a very selfish act. I think that when people say things like... Well, you know, some people will diagnose themselves as a people pleaser, and they've allowed themselves to believe because of the term, that what they're doing is pleasing the other person. But what I think that they're doing is, that's what you do.

Chris Williamson 46:20 No, no, no, the-- I was, what you're going to say is they're pleasing themselves.

Rick Glassman 46:23 Yes.

Chris Williamson 46:23 Protecting themselves.

Rick Glassman 46:24 Yeah, I, I want to make sure that, that this person doesn't see me in a bad way, as opposed to allowing them to see me as I, as I am.

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Rick Glassman 47:53 It's making sure that they're okay with you.

Chris Williamson 47:55 To make sure that they're okay, so that you can be okay.

Rick Glassman 47:58 And, and I think a great, uh, a great test of that would be, "Hey, I don't want to tell him that he has a booger in his nose. That's not my job. Maybe the person who does his, his makeup will." And when the makeup person tells you, I'm not thinking like: "Oh, no, I'm sorry." I'm thinking: "I'm glad they said it."

Chris Williamson 48:11 Mm.

Rick Glassman 48:11 So it's not the information that you're receiving that's gonna not please you. It's, I'm the one who's delivering it, and again, there's tact to this. Sometimes I don't owe everybody my truth. I don't need to tell you everything. I have found through originally a lack of awareness and then through making jokes, that, oh, there are ways of maybe delivering things to where it's more palatable. I don't know how you're going to receive this information. I don't want to make my choice based on how you're going to receive it. I want to make my choice based on, do I think this is valuable information for this person? And the only guiding star I have for that is, would I want to know that?

Chris Williamson 48:51 Mm.

Rick Glassman 48:52 If I would want to know that, but there it goes again, where I also want to, "Hey, I want to leave my hat here," or I, like, I want to set boundaries.

Chris Williamson 48:59 Also, you're not representative of everybody else. Would you want to know that? Yes, but if you are as non-fungible as it might seem-... you're, you can't use your theory-

Rick Glassman 49:08 That's really

Chris Williamson 49:08 -of mind to be, "Well, I would want it, therefore, they..." And it's like, yeah, but you're not them, and they're not you.

Rick Glassman 49:12 I, I think at a certain point with us being imperfect humans, there are just ways of calibrating yourself to, like, you could only police so many things.

Chris Williamson 49:22 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 49:23 And that's where the acceptance is. I am going to annoy people, I'm going to bother people. I'm not saying, "Fuck 'em, who cares?" I'm saying, "I'm trying not to," but I'm only gonna put so much b- attribute points into me recognizing when you're annoyed, especially when I go up to the conversation and I say, "I'm a little high, I'm doing bits. If you don't wanna do bits, I'm out of here. If you do-

Chris Williamson 49:43 Which again, is the disclaimer bit.

Rick Glassman 49:43 Yes.

Chris Williamson 49:43 That's why the disclaimer bits are the one, the one sheet. I think that's, it's a really, really lovely way to frame it, that, um, you do have an obligation to be, like, as nice as you can be, but, like, no nicer than, like, you're able to be. Like, you're not supposed to turn yourself into a pretzel, desperately trying to be able to, uh, like, make this other person feel at peace.

Rick Glassman 50:06 Yeah, by default, and then there's a, they just got... They just went, got out of a relationship, they're sad, their, well, their, their parent is sick. You know-

Chris Williamson 50:12 Okay, I'm gonna have to tune this up. I need to invest a little bit more.

Rick Glassman 50:15 It's constantly... Yeah.

Chris Williamson 50:16 Yeah, and you're calibrating that way.

Rick Glassman 50:17 Yes.

Chris Williamson 50:18 Um, one thing that makes me think about the, the dog walking scenario, I lived in New York for a month this summer, and I fucking- I thought it was so brilliant. I've never been there before. And, um, there was a, like, classic New York dog park on the Upper East Side, like East 83rd Street. And, uh, it's- when you're talking about the dog walking thing, it just makes me think about that. It's like fall, and you're sort of walking, and there's a strip of 100 yards. It's not big, it's New York. It's a 100-yard bit where someone might have a conversation for 90 seconds-

Rick Glassman 50:45 Mm

Chris Williamson 50:46 ... and that, um, one thing that you do have as part of this sort of mutually aware, I know that you know that we have the time-

Rick Glassman 50:54 Yeah

Chris Williamson 50:54 ... that it can't be the thing.

Rick Glassman 50:55 I already know what you're saying.

Chris Williamson 50:56 Um, you need to know that if you open up the fucking chasm of, "Well, you know, recently, actually, my sister..." Or, like, you, you say a thing. "So what's going on with you?" If you give that, it's like, "Oh, well, no, let me tell..." And you go, "I didn't want to lie and just say, 'Good, how are you?' But also, I do not have the time to invest to be able to tumble down this fucking rabbit hole-

Rick Glassman 51:21 Mm

Chris Williamson 51:21 ... this Alice in Wonderland cathedral of bullshit down here-

Rick Glassman 51:25 Mm

Chris Williamson 51:25 ... in order to have the conversation that would be truthful." So sometimes I think the, the social mores are there almost in the same way as like that is, or waving somebody across a junction. It's, it's even less information than you think it is.

Rick Glassman 51:40 What is that with the less information?

Chris Williamson 51:43 "How are you doing?" "I'm good, how are you?"

Rick Glassman 51:44 Right.

Chris Williamson 51:44 "Fine, thanks." Like, that is... It, it's almost the same as flashing somebody across with your lights in a car.

Rick Glassman 51:52 When people say, "How you doing?" And I don't want to talk about it, um, uh, uh, uh, I say, "Hi," back. And sometimes, if it's not, is in passing, "How you doing?" "I'm in a little bit of a mood. I don't want to get into it, but I'm okay." Like, just letting them know.

Chris Williamson 52:07 Mm.

Rick Glassman 52:07 That's, that's where I've, like, discovered where I could feel like I'm satisfying your rules while not, um, compromising mine, and by rules, I just mean way of life.

Chris Williamson 52:18 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 52:19 You know?

Chris Williamson 52:19 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 52:19 Um, but yeah, that's, that's the thing, that's, that's the, that's the... Kissing on a, on a first date. Is it like, "Are you good?" "Thanks, how are you?" Or are you just not wanting to get into it?

Chris Williamson 52:29 Mm.

Rick Glassman 52:30 Going in for a first kiss is constantly a scary thing. My, my, my reaction to that type of, type of fear isn't the same as it used to be, but that's st- still there's that moment of like, "Do you want to be doing this?"

Chris Williamson 52:43 Mm.

Rick Glassman 52:44 You know? And I feel that way, uh, you know, I recognize it right now. Like, I'm not worried by this, but you and I have made a commitment to talk for 60 to 120 minutes, and whether or not you think this is going well, you're gonna continue. So-

Chris Williamson 53:00 [chuckles] Is he continuing because he feels like he has to?

Rick Glassman 53:02 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 53:02 Is he actually-

Rick Glassman 53:02 But it's not a worry, it's just an awareness of it. So, like, it is what it is, and that's what being a professional is.

Chris Williamson 53:07 How do you detach the, uh, the emotion from that?

Rick Glassman 53:09 By knowing that I'll never know the answer to it.

Chris Williamson 53:12 Well, if you ask, you would.

Rick Glassman 53:14 I, I don't... Whatever you tell me, because I don't know you yet-

Chris Williamson 53:17 Right

Rick Glassman 53:17 ... and we're still fucking with condoms, I don't know if you'll be telling me the truth. Are you, are you wanting to, as the host of this show, manage my expectations and feelings to get what you believe is the best out of me, or are-

Chris Williamson 53:29 By not demoralizing you by saying, "This is a car crash-

Rick Glassman 53:31 Or-

Chris Williamson 53:31 - or this is great," or whatever.

Rick Glassman 53:32 Or even assuming that that's demoral- some people might want that.

Chris Williamson 53:35 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 53:35 And-

Chris Williamson 53:35 So from the call again, like, "Oh, he told me a little bit." He was like, "Yeah, actually, we do need to... Can we shift you to the left a little bit, or can we move the-

Rick Glassman 53:41 Yes

Chris Williamson 53:42 ... fucking hat out or whatever?" Oh, he told me something that's... And I suppose this is a, a, a, a stress test. It's a, a little, um, a truth test of, "Oh, is this person prepared to tell me something that might-

Rick Glassman 53:53 Right

Chris Williamson 53:53 ... in the wrong hands, be something that makes somebody

Chris Williamson 53:55 upset?" Two, two interesting ideas on that. Um, the same friend whose mum, uh, s- stops fight- fights in the middle of the street.

Rick Glassman 54:02 Who makes a whatever flan.

Chris Williamson 54:04 Yeah, yeah, yeah, makes an acceptable flan. Uh, he asked me at his 30th birthday last year, he said, um, "Who's your best friend in the world?" I was like, "Bit of a weird question after age, like, 12."

Rick Glassman 54:18 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 54:18 Uh, and he said, "Okay, let me reframe it for you. Who can you sit with in silence without the need to fill it, and who can you speak to with the least amount of filter?" I was like, "Ooh-

Rick Glassman 54:29 Mm

Chris Williamson 54:29 ... that's cool." Like, both ends of communication, both silence and talking, which of those feel, uh, the most unencumbered, like, the most frictionless? Just sit in fucking silence next to each other on a train, not even reading or using our phones or whatever, and not feel the need to-

Rick Glassman 54:47 That's the, that's, that's a direct analogy to the not having sex with somebody until you feel safe enough to be able to tell them, "I have performance anxiety." You know what I mean? That's a, that's a more insecure example of it. But yeah, it's- what you're saying is, who's your best friend is a hard thing to answer, but who do you feel safest with isn't. And-

Chris Williamson 55:05 Right

Rick Glassman 55:05 ... that's, I mean, I know I've said this as jokes, but that's really, and I don't mean this directly literally, but like people who grew up watching The Simpsons-... it's not just watching The Simpsons-

Chris Williamson 55:16 One long ad read for the-

Rick Glassman 55:17 But really, really, I, I, I, really there's two things, there's two, like, tests. You don't need to pass either of them, but it's valuable information. And it's not just people that watch The Simpsons, it's people that chose to.

Chris Williamson 55:27 Right.

Rick Glassman 55:27 They like this type of humor. People that think farting is funny, and people who watch The Simpsons, I think are genuinely nice, innocent people.

Chris Williamson 55:36 Okay.

Rick Glassman 55:36 Um, when people don't think farting is funny, there may be is some trauma. I know that there, there are-

Chris Williamson 55:43 [laughing]

Rick Glassman 55:43 I have, I have some, some female friends that have, uh, uh, issues with the way that their mom receives them, and they better- they need to be beautiful-

Chris Williamson 55:52 Crimson Propper

Rick Glassman 55:52 ... they need to be, they need to be a certain thing that the mother believes is what makes a woman. Bummer, pun not intended.

Chris Williamson 55:59 [laughing]

Rick Glassman 55:59 However, when you think it's just gross or whatever, and yeah, of course, it's gross. I'm not saying, "Do you think farting is something that you want me to be doing on your face all the time?" I'm asking you if you think it's funny, and if you don't think it's funny, I know that we're not compatible. I know it. I know it.

Chris Williamson 56:19 You're saying that the tip of the spear of your-

Rick Glassman 56:21 Yes

Chris Williamson 56:22 ... social Venn diagram crossing over is Simpsons and funny farting?

Rick Glassman 56:26 You know what? To be a little bit more fair, you don't have to think farting is funny. I want... I've never, I've never been in a-- and this wasn't a conscious choice, I've never been in a relationship with somebody who didn't laugh at farts. I don't think that's a coincidence. But it's not that you don't think farting is funny, as much as if you think farting is gross. Like, if we're sitting around, and I have to go to the bathroom to fart, I'll get 40,000 steps a day. You know, what do you want me-

Chris Williamson 56:48 You a big farter?

Rick Glassman 56:51 Who isn't?

Chris Williamson 56:53 Well, I, I, uh, I guess it depends what your baseline for big farting is.

Rick Glassman 56:57 Exactly, and whatever your baseline is, come on over. Just change your clothes and sit on a blanket.

Chris Williamson 57:02 Okay. Yeah.

Rick Glassman 57:02 Whatever you fart- if you fart 10 times in a-

Chris Williamson 57:05 How do you feel about... How do you feel about farting? Because that's kind of turned inside clothes into outside. It's actually turned inside clothes into in- inner you inside clothes.

Rick Glassman 57:13 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 57:14 How's that feel on the couch?

Rick Glassman 57:16 Yeah. Farting on... If you fart on my couch, um, how'd that feel?

Chris Williamson 57:29 Well-

Rick Glassman 57:29 You know, it feels good to fart.

Chris Williamson 57:30 It does, but how does-

Rick Glassman 57:31 I don't-

Chris Williamson 57:32 ... how do you and your couch-

Rick Glassman 57:33 Fine. We're fi- it's farting.

Chris Williamson 57:35 Hang on. I, I, I do feel like we need to-

Rick Glassman 57:38 'Cause farting isn't outdoor clothes. Those are indoor clothes.

Chris Williamson 57:40 Right, but they are now contaminated with-

Rick Glassman 57:44 They're

Chris Williamson 57:44 ... the inside of me.

Rick Glassman 57:45 They're not... Your pants aren't off. If you pulled off your pants and farted, I would say, "Well, you fart on the blanket."

Chris Williamson 57:52 Right. Okay, so there's a-

Rick Glassman 57:53 It's, it's coughing in a mask.

Chris Williamson 57:55 Right, okay.

Rick Glassman 57:56 And I can, I consider underpants are pants at 94.

Chris Williamson 57:58 So pants are like fart condoms?

Rick Glassman 58:00 I've been saying it for weeks. [chuckles]

Chris Williamson 58:02 Pants are fart condoms.

Rick Glassman 58:03 Yeah. It's my merch, actually. Imagine? It just- [laughing]

Chris Williamson 58:07 [laughing] Pants are fart condoms.

Rick Glassman 58:08 Come on, that's fucking crazy.

Chris Williamson 58:09 Whoa! Like fucking Oz Pearlman, the Mentalist. Well, I knew I was gonna go here.

Rick Glassman 58:13 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 58:13 Um, I, I think you need to reassess this. I don't want to contribute to your blanket anxiety.

Rick Glassman 58:20 Contribute, but go on.

Chris Williamson 58:21 British. Um-

Rick Glassman 58:23 Just farted.

Chris Williamson 58:25 [laughing]

Rick Glassman 58:26 Why are you laughing?

Chris Williamson 58:27 Um, I, I think you really need to check yourself on this. I think that there is a... there are far more microscopic poo particles-

Rick Glassman 58:37 Oh, I know

Chris Williamson 58:38 ... getting through pants and jeans onto the blanket-

Rick Glassman 58:43 I agree

Chris Williamson 58:43 ... and into the couch.

Rick Glassman 58:44 I, I have thought about this.

Chris Williamson 58:44 It's not zero.

Rick Glassman 58:45 No, it's not. It's inevitable.

Chris Williamson 58:47 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 58:48 They're farting.

Chris Williamson 58:49 You were worried about the sweat from the gym clothes.

Rick Glassman 58:53 It's like I said, it's not that logical.

Chris Williamson 58:54 I understand.

Rick Glassman 58:54 It's not about the sweat.

Chris Williamson 58:55 But I just... I, I want you to try and be consistent.

Rick Glassman 58:59 Okay. May I?

Chris Williamson 59:00 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 59:00 Because you're playfully challenging me-

Chris Williamson 59:01 Yeah

Rick Glassman 59:01 ... and I'm all for it.

Chris Williamson 59:02 Yep.

Rick Glassman 59:03 Before you go into my bathroom, I am going to tell you before you flush, "Please, close the toilet seat."

Chris Williamson 59:09 Ooh, because you don't want it to be atomized-

Rick Glassman 59:11 Correct

Chris Williamson 59:11 ... up into the... What if it's only pee?

Rick Glassman 59:13 It's closed. Please, just it's not that big of an ask.

Chris Williamson 59:17 You could be... You could just fix this with a Japanese toilet.

Rick Glassman 59:20 Uh, I try not to, um, to have, uh, just... I don't have a Japanese toilet.

Chris Williamson 59:27 Okay.

Rick Glassman 59:27 Well-

Chris Williamson 59:28 Maybe that would be, you know, just to consider for future.

Rick Glassman 59:30 Uh, also, I was gonna make a joke, but I'm realizing I don't even know what a Japanese toilet is.

Chris Williamson 59:34 Is it one of those heated things? It's automated. It's got the built-in bum spray.

Rick Glassman 59:38 Oh, yeah, they're amazing. Uh, with the bidet and stuff?

Chris Williamson 59:40 Yes.

Rick Glassman 59:40 Yeah, I wa- I wanna get one.

Chris Williamson 59:41 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 59:41 But, but-

Chris Williamson 59:42 And that would fix this problem.

Rick Glassman 59:43 No, it wouldn't.

Chris Williamson 59:45 But it-

Rick Glassman 59:46 I've, I've, I've pissed and shit in them. I've come in a few.

Chris Williamson 59:48 And they don't close?

Rick Glassman 59:48 Yeah, they don't close. Uh, they close, some of them close, but y- you, you, you do your thing, you flush, maybe it's closing as it's flushing. It doesn't-

Chris Williamson 59:55 And you're worried that there's... It's like Indiana Jones sneaking under the door as it comes down, and, whoop, he grabs his hat, but instead, he's flicked poo particles out. Okay.

Rick Glassman 1:00:04 Which also is another piece. [laughing] Um, so I'm a, I'm a, I, I, I wanna control the poop particles and the pee particles in certain places, but I-

Chris Williamson 1:00:13 But you're controlling it in the room, which has the most sterile-

Rick Glassman 1:00:17 Here's my-

Chris Williamson 1:00:18 ... lowest amount of soft furnishings.

Rick Glassman 1:00:19 Here's my logic: if you have to fart, you're gonna fart. You're just gonna try and hide it from me.

Chris Williamson 1:00:25 What if it's gratuitous? What if you can f- you know that they're forcing them out?

Rick Glassman 1:00:29 It's probably gonna be funnier.

Chris Williamson 1:00:32 So you can offset-

Rick Glassman 1:00:33 I know that you're gonna fart. Uh, it's not a matter of fart, don't fart. It's just-

Chris Williamson 1:00:38 What?

Rick Glassman 1:00:38 ... Do, let's see it!

Chris Williamson 1:00:40 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:00:40 Let's see it.

Chris Williamson 1:00:41 See it?

Rick Glassman 1:00:42 Uh, on, on my podcast, yes.

Chris Williamson 1:00:44 You see it?

Rick Glassman 1:00:45 We do a lot of animate... Like, my podcast is one that you have to... You don't ha- I, I watch it. There's-

Chris Williamson 1:00:52 I, I like the Street Fighter selection thing. I enjoyed when you were doing that.

Rick Glassman 1:00:55 Oh, thank you. I didn't mean you in particular. I just meant, like, I want it to be digested with the visuals because we do a lot of stuff, including animations. People f- when people go like this, even, I add a little fart and a little shit that comes out, and it stays there for a second. Like-

Chris Williamson 1:01:07 Yeah

Rick Glassman 1:01:08 ... I'm a little boy. I think it's really fun and funny. Um, yeah, it doesn't... You know, and it's not that logical. Like, I have a dog. I got a dog for a few reasons.... two of it that I'll explain that are relevant is, one, I thought it would help with my OCD because my ex-girlfriend, I was obsessed with her dog, and when she would bring it over, for whatever reason, the rules didn't apply to him. Like, I was okay with it.

Chris Williamson 1:01:31 Out- outdoor dog, indoor dog.

Rick Glassman 1:01:33 We would wipe his paws before he comes in, but, but you wouldn't wipe his, his butt, his belly. He would lay on the ground.

Chris Williamson 1:01:38 Yeah, yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:01:38 Like, he's on the stuff, it's okay because the alternative is him not on the bed with us.

Chris Williamson 1:01:44 Or having to bathe him every time he's come in.

Rick Glassman 1:01:46 Which ain't gonna happen.

Chris Williamson 1:01:47 Yep.

Rick Glassman 1:01:47 Yeah. So I realized, wow, this is, this is, you know, immersion therapy in a way.

Chris Williamson 1:01:52 Yep, yep.

Rick Glassman 1:01:52 Um-

Chris Williamson 1:01:53 Yep, yep.

Rick Glassman 1:01:54 Another reason I got a dog is because, especially 'cause I, I work so much on my podcast and I do a lot of editing, and I, I would go... If I don't have shows, I would go three days without leaving my house, and I didn't get out of the house. I'm like, this is an excuse to get out of the house.

Chris Williamson 1:02:06 Yep.

Rick Glassman 1:02:07 I'm out of the house a lot more now. Um, I used to, once you go outside, the outdoor clothes, but then I'm like, I'm- I go, I walk. I just won't sit down. I've allowed myself to go outside, maybe even in the rain, and come back in. So, like, I'm getting better by challenging myself, and the dog let me do that. Um, farting is... You know, the dog could be on the blanket. A fart is fine if you're wearing a, you know, condom.

Chris Williamson 1:02:33 Right, okay. So farts are the, the dog of the indoor-outdoor world.

Rick Glassman 1:02:38 Also, if it's funny enough, you know what I'm saying? Like, I, I, I feel there's, there's, there's a hack to shame, and that's finding a bit in it, right? Like, I'm embarrassed about this thing, but if I could say something funny about it... I don't know. Is that because now I feel valuable, and I use it as a tool? Is it because I now am being seen in a way that isn't the way that I thought I would be seen? Um, is it just the connection I have with somebody who could relate to it? Whatever it is-

Chris Williamson 1:03:03 Mm

Rick Glassman 1:03:03 ... if you can make a bit out of something, it's easier, right? And I feel this way. I mean, of course, then there's like, "Oh, you're joking all the time." I'm not saying make everything a joke. What I'm saying is, if there's an uncomfortable conversation, there is s- there is craft involved into either saying things like setting expectations properly. "Hey, there's something that's been on my mind. It's not that deep, but it's something that bothers me. We don't have to talk about it now, but do you have five minutes of space? I could let you know something that I've been feeling a little embarrassed about." It lets the other person make a choice to do that. Sure, and that's a great tool. Another one is, that's not as exhausting and asking so much of the other person, especially if it doesn't really involve them, is, "Hey, I have a stye in my eye, and I brought sunglasses, and I might wanna do this."

Chris Williamson 1:03:50 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 1:03:50 "And is this... You know what? Could we just do glasses? Could we do sunglasses for a little?"

Chris Williamson 1:03:54 Of course.

Rick Glassman 1:03:54 Cool, and now the bit is we're wearing sunglasses.

Chris Williamson 1:03:58 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 1:03:58 But that made it easier for me to admit to you something that might have been hard to say. Now, that wasn't hard to say, but, like, farting, a buddy of mine, um, shout out to Andy Kozel, once said, "Buttholes have the best comedic timing," and I think that's so funny and true. You ever hear a fart, and you think, like, "I didn't think that was a good time for that"? And if so-

Chris Williamson 1:04:21 It's the best time for that.

Rick Glassman 1:04:23 Oh, I was gonna say we're not compatible, but yes.

Chris Williamson 1:04:25 Ah, I see.

Rick Glassman 1:04:27 If you don't think that that fart was funny, you might be a redneck. Do you have that over there?

Chris Williamson 1:04:33 No.

Rick Glassman 1:04:33 Okay.

Chris Williamson 1:04:34 No, we have... What do we have in the UK? We have chavs, don't we?

Rick Glassman 1:04:38 You might be a chad.

Chris Williamson 1:04:39 Chav, chav.

Rick Glassman 1:04:40 I don't know chav. I know chad.

Chris Williamson 1:04:41 Chav. So, um, our- the only equivalent we have of kind of hick... So imagine a-

Rick Glassman 1:04:47 You're not supposed to-

Chris Williamson 1:04:47 ... gypsy without the caravan.

Rick Glassman 1:04:48 You're not supposed to say gypsy or hick, just so you know.

Chris Williamson 1:04:51 You just did.

Rick Glassman 1:04:52 I did it-

Chris Williamson 1:04:52 Redneck.

Rick Glassman 1:04:53 Redneck.

Chris Williamson 1:04:54 Is, is hick allowed?

Rick Glassman 1:04:55 I mean, you'll see the comments.

Chris Williamson 1:04:57 Well, look, I'm, I'm like somebody who hasn't had whatever reckoning a- around culture and class-

Rick Glassman 1:05:02 I think it's okay

Chris Williamson 1:05:03 ... has occurred, and-

Rick Glassman 1:05:03 I was just-

Chris Williamson 1:05:04 I'm fine

Rick Glassman 1:05:04 ... historic, historical.

Chris Williamson 1:05:05 I'm, I'm, I'm insulated because of the British accent, hopefully, until I get canceled. Uh, I was on Tucker Carlson this week. I would like to fucking... I survived that. That's okay.

Rick Glassman 1:05:13 Has it come out yet?

Chris Williamson 1:05:13 Yep.

Rick Glassman 1:05:14 And you survived it.

Chris Williamson 1:05:14 Yeah, well, Monday. It was the day that, like, all hell broke loose, and the entire internet decided to point the sights at Tucker, Candace, and Nick Fuentes all at the same time. And I was like, I, I, I, I, I, I just had a conversation about, like, what I think men should be doing maybe and how they, how they, they're struggling a bit in school and work and stuff, and there was this huge crossfire, and I sort of, like, had to do this. There were all the [chuckles] fucking bullets-

Rick Glassman 1:05:40 Do you-

Chris Williamson 1:05:40 ... flying over the top of my head.

Rick Glassman 1:05:41 Is that a concern for you, or is it just something you noticed?

Chris Williamson 1:05:44 It's just something I noticed. I mean, I was on set all day. I had two wonderful... Monday was fucking brilliant. I had Trevor Wallace in, I think's great.

Rick Glassman 1:05:50 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:05:50 It's the first time I got to meet him. It was so much fun, and we went for, like, two and a bit hours, and then I had Huberman for, like, three and a half hours, and we got to chat before and chat after.

Rick Glassman 1:05:56 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:05:56 I was like-

Rick Glassman 1:05:57 That's great

Chris Williamson 1:05:57 ... I'm fucking sweet. And you come out and you go, "Oh, oh, I'll deal with that later." Like, whatever the fucking... [mumbles]

Rick Glassman 1:06:05 Uh-huh.

Chris Williamson 1:06:05 Uh, but no,

Chris Williamson 1:06:06 it's fine. Um, I want to tell you a story about Jon Bellion. Do you know who that is?

Rick Glassman 1:06:09 The name sounds familiar, but no.

Chris Williamson 1:06:11 Musician, recording artist, producer behind Justin Bieber and Rihanna, like Ed Sheeran, gazillion plays, like billions and billions and billions of plays. I had him on the show in New York. He told me this story about his son. It made me think when you were talking, like, this is why kids are great because kids don't have the filter.

Rick Glassman 1:06:26 Mm.

Chris Williamson 1:06:26 And I think, uh, some of the things that I'm, like, hearing and feeling from our conversation today is, uh, is this, uh, balance between, um, growth and self-acceptance, between being true to yourself and, uh, helping somebody... Like, being kind, like, being nice to somebody, which doesn't always mean necessarily telling them what they want to hear. Kids kind of sit interestingly, like, skewed off to one side, where they do very much tell the truth but can also, like-

Rick Glassman 1:06:53 Mm

Chris Williamson 1:06:53 ... and the innocence allows them to get away with more, which is interesting, 'cause I wonder whether if we mo- all of us spoke more like kids, we would be able to get away with more.

Rick Glassman 1:06:59 I think there's something about tr- it's, it's a projection of the innocence and the intention. I've- I have misophonia, and when people are chewing, it, it sounds.

Chris Williamson 1:07:07 Okay.

Rick Glassman 1:07:07 Sounds, it drives me fucking nuts.

Chris Williamson 1:07:08 The sound of eating.

Rick Glassman 1:07:09 W- when a dog is doing it, for some reason, not only am I okay with it, I love it, and I, I don't know-

Chris Williamson 1:07:14 Oh, don't you, you like them licking butt holes as well?

Rick Glassman 1:07:17 Uh, he was licking his penis in The Sound of It. That was a Christian Bale episode, I-

Chris Williamson 1:07:19 Yep.

Rick Glassman 1:07:20 Did you see?

Chris Williamson 1:07:20 Yep.

Rick Glassman 1:07:20 He was licking his penis, and there was something about that sound where it's just so cute to me.

Chris Williamson 1:07:25 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:07:26 ... when a human licks his penis, I just, you know, why am I watching this?

Chris Williamson 1:07:31 Why, why is Marilyn Manson in my bedroom?

Rick Glassman 1:07:33 Isn't that funny? I've talked about that recently, too, that fake rumor that everyone thought he took out a rib-

Chris Williamson 1:07:37 Rib

Rick Glassman 1:07:37 ... so he could blow himself.

Chris Williamson 1:07:37 Yeah, I haven't thought-

Rick Glassman 1:07:38 Everybody around the fucking world knew that!

Chris Williamson 1:07:41 I haven't thought about that for a decade. I'm so glad that we're on this, we're tapped into the astral realm this second.

Rick Glassman 1:07:44 And that was pre-COVID.

Chris Williamson 1:07:45 [chuckles] That was pre-COVID. Yeah, imagine how much fun you would have had. A quick aside, you've probably heard about PFAS, the forever chemicals that are in your non-stick pans and food packaging and drinking water, and probably your testicles. Studies say they might be linked to hormone disruption, infertility, and even cancer. In fact, ninety-seven percent of Americans have detectable levels of PFAS in their blood right now, and probably their testicles. Good news, Function just introduced PFAS testing as an add-on for members on top of the over a hundred biomarkers that they already track twice a year: hormones, heart levels, nutrient levels. They now look at the microplastics in your testicles. It's a way to go even deeper into your health, giving you the option to see if these forever chemicals are quietly accumulating at harmful levels in your testicles. Normally, getting this level of insight would cost thousands of dollars with private clinics. With Function, it's just four hundred and ninety-nine bucks a year, and everything is reviewed by a physician with clear, actionable steps to improve your health. Right now, you can get another hundred bucks off, bring it down to three hundred and ninety-nine dollars. Get the exact same blood panels that I get and save a hundred dollars by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com/modernwisdom. That's functionhealth.com/modernwisdom to save your testicles. Um, so John does this show. He does two stadium shows in Long Island. Uh, he doesn't tour for five or six years, comes back, writes this album, and, uh, has dedicated his life to his family now, whilst also still doing the producer thing, but he's not been front-facing. And people come over to his house so that he has his l- limited time away from his family and his kids, whilst also, like, living his dream and doing his thing as possible. So he's curated his life around his family and decides to do two stadium shows. I think it's on back-to-back nights. He only rehearses for three days-

Rick Glassman 1:09:28 Mm-hmm

Chris Williamson 1:09:28 ... so that he spends as little time away from his kids as possible. You know, like, his new album is Father Figure, so it's all about being a good dad, and he had this amazing dad-

Rick Glassman 1:09:35 And it is on Prime now. [chuckles]

Chris Williamson 1:09:38 [chuckles] And, um, he, uh, does the show, and he's doing it-- it's like fifteen minutes drive from his house, and he's brought his, uh, kids there, and his son's there, maybe, like, five, something like that. And, um, he's got a little playpen out the back with his toys, and he's thinking to himself: "I've... You know, I haven't toured for ages. I haven't put the shows on. I've dedicated so much time. Like, my family's gonna be there, my friends are gonna be there," and, like, all this stuff. Super excited. And he finishes up the show after having done this, and he goes to go and see his son, and he says, "So what did you think of the show?" And he went, "I didn't like it." "Um, why?" "W- well, [exhales] you sang the first song, and then you just kept singing. You just kept on singing more and more songs, and I thought, 'When's Dad gonna be done, so he'll come play with me?'" And you're like, that's someone just saying what they fucking want.

Rick Glassman 1:10:30 But also, they-- the kid thinks that the show is bad because he didn't get his dad playing with him. He was giving the wrong critique. He wasn't critiquing the show. He was critiquing that he was doing a show. I don't like this kid. [laughing] I don't like this kid. Now, Huberman, I saw at the airport recently, and he saw my dog, and he was playing with my dog a bit.

Chris Williamson 1:10:50 Oh, you have emotional support credentials for your dog?

Rick Glassman 1:10:53 Um, I, I don't want to... That's none of your business, but I have my dog with me.

Chris Williamson 1:10:56 I wanna know how you-- are you smuggling it?

Rick Glassman 1:10:58 I, I'm doing it all the right ways.

Chris Williamson 1:11:01 Okay, this sounds like an area for investigation.

Rick Glassman 1:11:05 So, um, I have the dog, and Huberman, uh, is li- likes dogs, and he's playing, and-

Chris Williamson 1:11:10 He loves dogs

Rick Glassman 1:11:10 ... my dog is, it's, it's, he's insane. It's insane. He's perfect.

Chris Williamson 1:11:13 Yep.

Rick Glassman 1:11:14 And he's writing, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I had this feeling of, like, not that I'm somebody who he needs to know who I am, but I did think, like, "If you knew who I was, you would probably want to do my podcast." And I was-- and I didn't say anything to him. The same-

Chris Williamson 1:11:27 You didn't pitch him?

Rick Glassman 1:11:28 No.

Chris Williamson 1:11:29 Didn't use the dog as, like, a thirst trap-

Rick Glassman 1:11:31 No

Chris Williamson 1:11:31 ... to try and-

Rick Glassman 1:11:32 He came over to me.

Chris Williamson 1:11:33 Ah, ha, ho.

Rick Glassman 1:11:34 But I didn't, I didn't ask him to come on my podcast, the same reason why I wouldn't ask a woman who I'd just met for the first time at the gym to go on a date. It's not right.

Chris Williamson 1:11:44 How do you think about tact? Uh, you're in the city and the world, the industry of networking, business stuff.

Rick Glassman 1:11:52 I'm all for asking. I, I mean, I think we have the same agent. I mean, I could just ask my agent to forward an email, then say, "Hey, we met at the airport." Like, I-- maybe I'll do that. I haven't. I, is that what you're asking? Like, I'm all for asking people for things.

Chris Williamson 1:12:03 Yeah, just again, [clears throat] uh, we've talked about kind of the emotional dynamic of this, like, within the emotional world, but there's also the professional world, and the-

Rick Glassman 1:12:15 I think about that where-

Chris Williamson 1:12:16 The rules are a little-

Rick Glassman 1:12:17 It's, I, it's an uncomfortable feeling. I feel, 'cause I, I do... I book myself, and I do this, so I feel like there's producer Rick, and then there's, like, comedian Rick. And producer Rick feels like it's high school, and I'm following up with people that I don't want to. Not that I don't want to, but I, I'm, I don't want to bother you. So, like, asking Huberman to be on my podcast at the airport when he's be-- liking my dog, it would be like me going in for a first kiss before I have enough data. It's like, what if he s- what if he says yes, and he just feels like, "Oh, I don't know"? And like, "Do you, do you want to be here?" Like, this idea, I, I... Men-- You know, women, women are scared [chuckles] a lot. Like, women go through life in a different way traditionally than men of just like... Like, the analogy I think of is, like, I went into a, a coffee shop, and there was this big dog, and he, it wasn't even showing his teeth. It was just like, this dog could do some damage, and the person that was holding the leash was talking to somebody else and not really paying attention, and to get in, I had to go around this dog. I wasn't necessarily afraid of the dog, but I was looking at the dog the entire time, and I really thought to myself, "I think this is how women feel around men." And I say this because, like... Wait, hold on. So Huberman, I'm trying to think of the analogy. I'm now forgetting what I'm saying, and I don't want to because I feel like I want to talk about this. Why am I saying that women are afraid?... anyway, I just think we need to do better.

Chris Williamson 1:13:40 [laughing]

Rick Glassman 1:13:41 And I think that musician needs to tell his son, like, you know-

Chris Williamson 1:13:44 Shape up.

Rick Glassman 1:13:45 You know.

Chris Williamson 1:13:45 I think he was saying, uh, asking too much, the fear of, uh, following up producer Rick, comedian Rick.

Rick Glassman 1:13:52 Yes. Yes.

Chris Williamson 1:13:58 Let's move on.

Rick Glassman 1:13:59 Ah, you know what? We're gonna move on because I learned what you're supposed to do.

Chris Williamson 1:14:02 It'll come back eventually, and you'll ju- you can just interrupt-

Rick Glassman 1:14:03 Oh, but I loved it. I loved what I was thinking.

Chris Williamson 1:14:05 Yeah, I hate when-

Rick Glassman 1:14:06 You would've fucking freaked if you heard it!

Chris Williamson 1:14:07 I hate when that happens. How do you respond to caffeine?

Rick Glassman 1:14:11 I stopped drinking coffee two years ago-

Chris Williamson 1:14:13 Okay

Rick Glassman 1:14:13 ... because it gets me s- sometimes too high, but that's not why I stopped it, was because it, uh, one out of 20, I would get anxious.

Chris Williamson 1:14:20 Ah.

Rick Glassman 1:14:20 And I started taking this... I'm sure this is fantastic. I've heard nothing but the best from Neutonic.

Chris Williamson 1:14:25 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 1:14:26 Oh, wow, it has L-theanine as well. Orange-

Chris Williamson 1:14:28 Twice as much as a sleep supplement, so-

Rick Glassman 1:14:30 Mm

Chris Williamson 1:14:30 ... might be-- Anyway, I-

Rick Glassman 1:14:32 And-

Chris Williamson 1:14:32 Let's not roll the dice on one in 20 on fucking anxiety.

Rick Glassman 1:14:34 But I, I take a drink called Magic Mind. Do you know about that?

Chris Williamson 1:14:37 I do. The, the little green-

Rick Glassman 1:14:38 Yeah

Chris Williamson 1:14:38 ... shot?

Rick Glassman 1:14:39 It's-

Chris Williamson 1:14:39 That's got caffeine in it.

Rick Glassman 1:14:39 Yeah. So it's a per... For whatever reason, it's the right amount for me.

Chris Williamson 1:14:43 Yep.

Rick Glassman 1:14:44 Uh, what made you ask about caffeine?

Chris Williamson 1:14:45 Just, I was like: Oh, maybe you need a little tick, tick, tick, just a little tickle.

Rick Glassman 1:14:49 A little more or a little less?

Chris Williamson 1:14:50 I don't... Have you had any?

Rick Glassman 1:14:51 I took one before this.

Chris Williamson 1:14:52 Ah, that might be it. Well, I don't know. So it's, it's weird when you lose your train of thought like that because you go, "The solution is either too much or too little caffeine, and I don't know which one it is."

Rick Glassman 1:15:01 I think I just got into my body, just the empathy I have for how difficult it is for women in this world to have to not only show up as themselves, but to have 20% of their brain making sure that they, they-

Chris Williamson 1:15:13 Stay

Rick Glassman 1:15:13 ... they could stay alive. Meanwhile, guys are just walking around getting their cock sucked and drinking caffeine like it's a, you know, on a Thursday.

Chris Williamson 1:15:19 Well, it depends who you are, I suppose.

Chris Williamson 1:15:21 Uh, yeah, I think it, there is a, there is definitely an asymmetry. It's interesting that, um, like-

Rick Glassman 1:15:27 So I didn't wanna a- approach Huberman like a woman.

Chris Williamson 1:15:29 Under... Well, that one might have worked.

Rick Glassman 1:15:31 I've been a fan of his, uh, uh, I, I don't wanna call it a fan. I've been... I mean, yes, but I've been listening before he- not even listening, like, reading his stuff. My, my ex, who, who lives in London, I spent a lot of time in London, love being in London, uh, she turned me on to Huberman, I think, in 2019. And there's, like, so many things that are now just like... I, I just used to go out in the sunlight in the mornings. Like, I know that's, like, a big trope at this point, but, like, 'cause of that, there were so many things, um, uh, uh, learning about histamines and, uh, uh, and nightshades, and there were so many thing... And I'm just like, this is a guy that has now gotten really successful for, for having a, a- an audience appreciate his, his knowledge. So I'm like: I really like this guy. You know what I'm saying? So it's like seeing a, a girl that you really like, where it's like, I don't wanna just... I don't know. I, I feel like it's not appropriate here. I'm not saying I'm right.

Chris Williamson 1:16:24 Well, there's a nice amount, there's a nice amount of reverence there. You're like: "Oh, I'm gonna treat this one properly." I mean, you know this, a- and for the girls out there, uh, I would wager fewer relationships start if you have sex on the first date than if you have sex on the fourth date or the 10th date or something like that.

Rick Glassman 1:16:43 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:16:43 That, um, giving it up too quickly and sort of being too fast too soon, uh, is indicative of how much you care about the relationship overall.

Rick Glassman 1:16:53 Do you think that's a direct, like, that's a literal, uh, statistic?

Chris Williamson 1:16:59 I would be-

Rick Glassman 1:17:00 'Cause I agree, but sometimes no- like-

Chris Williamson 1:17:06 I, I just get the sense that there's a few dynamics at play here. Uh, first one, we tend-

Rick Glassman 1:17:11 Biological

Chris Williamson 1:17:12 ... we tend to value things that are difficult to get-

Rick Glassman 1:17:15 Yeah

Chris Williamson 1:17:15 ... more. Uh, secondly, the time from meeting to getting physically intimate with somebody is usually, if you wait longer, what it suggests is that is not all that you're here for.

Rick Glassman 1:17:30 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:17:31 Uh, just those two. We don't even need to go deeper than that. Like, that's enough to carry this dynamic through, I think, to... It would-

Rick Glassman 1:17:35 I

Chris Williamson 1:17:35 ... probably appear in data.

Rick Glassman 1:17:36 Yeah. The, my last three relationships were, uh-

Chris Williamson 1:17:40 Poked them on the first date?

Rick Glassman 1:17:41 No, uh, w- well, yeah, but there's, there is, um, uh, there's more information, which is we... It was long distance, and we were FaceTiming for months.

Chris Williamson 1:17:53 Okay.

Rick Glassman 1:17:54 So-

Chris Williamson 1:17:54 Okay, yeah

Rick Glassman 1:17:54 ... so the first time we smelt each other and actually were in the same room-

Chris Williamson 1:17:58 But you've spoken for 50 hours at this point, however.

Rick Glassman 1:18:01 Yeah. And I've learned that I like, like, I, even if it's lo- like we're in town, I'm not scared to go on a date. But let's say you and I don't know if we'd want to podcast with each other. We could find out by doing a podcast, or we could FaceTime for a little bit and see if, like, we're, you know-

Chris Williamson 1:18:16 We vibe

Rick Glassman 1:18:16 ... if you think farting is funny-

Chris Williamson 1:18:18 Uh

Rick Glassman 1:18:18 ... and if we could go get tested.

Chris Williamson 1:18:19 That is [chuckles] that is one of the interesting things about, um, having conversations with people, especially because you don't... If you bin the episode, especially something like this, where, you know, we've got the fucking cars and the-

Rick Glassman 1:18:30 Mm

Chris Williamson 1:18:30 ... the team and all the rest of it, uh, it's a big, tends to be a big deal if you're like, "Oh, fuck, that was so bad." Um, but there is no practicing in private. There's no, "Oh, we'll, we'll, we'll go through the moves yesterday."

Rick Glassman 1:18:42 For podcasting?

Chris Williamson 1:18:43 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:18:43 I think there is. The, there's a reason that you wanted to have me on the podcast, not that you w- you still agree with that reason or that you don't, but, like, you got information. That's what's different about being-

Chris Williamson 1:18:54 Okay, that's research, but y- you've, you're, you're right. You are right.

Rick Glassman 1:18:56 But you can't do... I mean, especially for somebody that does-

Chris Williamson 1:18:59 You research this person based on their Instagram.

Rick Glassman 1:19:00 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:19:00 How's this dynamic between us going to go?

Rick Glassman 1:19:02 It's all data collection. I, I really believe that dating for the first X period of dates is less about, um, uh, uh, showing a person who you are and them showing who you are, and more about... Which I don't agr- I don't like this.

Chris Williamson 1:19:17 Mm.

Rick Glassman 1:19:17 But it's more about, like, showing up in a certain way that you're supposed to, and they'll do the same. And then over time, that degrades into who you actually are. But you can't show up as you actually are on a first date because they're gonna be like: "Oh, he farts on a first date. What is he gonna do on the second date?"

Chris Williamson 1:19:33 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:19:33 I'm gonna fart again.

Chris Williamson 1:19:34 How much, how much deeper does this descend? No, no, no, this is as deep as it goes-

Rick Glassman 1:19:37 Yes

Chris Williamson 1:19:37 ... unfortunately for you.

Rick Glassman 1:19:38 So, [chuckles] so-... FaceTiming, I think, and it's not specific to FaceTime. It could be like if, you know, we're not making a commitment to each other, and you're on, you know, y- you're with a group of other people, and, like, you're getting to see a little dynamic without feeling the pressure of needing to wear a certain outfit. And ask how many brothers and sisters you have, and, like, get to know the person. I think FaceTiming, 'cause you could also always just hang up.

Chris Williamson 1:20:04 Safety thing is a big deal on that-

Rick Glassman 1:20:06 Yeah

Chris Williamson 1:20:06 ... if you're talking about, oh, well, s- some part of this is... I mean, I know for a fact that girls will say to their friends, "This is where we're going. This is the time. This is the place. Like, you've got my location. If I don't text you by this time, then maybe give me a ring," whatever, because that, that safety piece is, is a big part.

Rick Glassman 1:20:24 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:20:25 Uh, I imagine that there is a way to f- be made to feel unsafe over FaceTime, but it significantly more safe, right?

Rick Glassman 1:20:34 Y- yeah, I mean, it's al- also, when you say safety, it's not just physical safety. There's also just, like, y- y- your own, y- you know, your social battery and your sense of comfort.

Chris Williamson 1:20:42 Mm.

Rick Glassman 1:20:42 And, and, like, depending on the person, if you're not enjoying it, do you just, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah," or do you say things like... I've learned so much about how to communicate with people by editing my podcast, and when I watch myself, I, I used to, when I would get bored in a conversation, not that the other person's boring, not that I was meaning to judge them, but I would just be honest saying, "Hey, I'm a little bored with this, and c- like, can we talk about something different?" Some people re- it seemed like they received it well. Some people m- maybe like, oh, and that became the topic of conversation, then we would talk about communication, whatever.

Chris Williamson 1:21:14 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:21:15 But I would watch myself, and as I'm watching from the audience, I would see I'm not bored what this person is talking about on, on the monitor, but I was bored in the room.

Chris Williamson 1:21:25 Do you think's going on there?

Rick Glassman 1:21:26 I think what was going on there was I wasn't interested, or I missed something, and I was wondering if I was in focus or not, and I'm, I, I, I just, like, I'm not connected, right? And I mistook not being connected to n- by meaning I'm not interested. So instead of saying, "I'm not interested in this topic," and, like, I would watch myself and be, like, frustrated, not just of how I-

Chris Williamson 1:21:47 I could have enjoyed this in person.

Rick Glassman 1:21:48 Yes. Well, no, w- i- maybe, but not specifically that. It was... I was frustrated, one, that I showed up as somebody who shut somebody down, not meaning to, but I did. But also, like, I wanna hear what they said, and now we never got to it. Like, me, as the audience, wanted to hear more about that. So in moments where I feel that way now, I don't think to myself, "This is boring." I think to my... If it is, we can take it out later. I think to myself, "I'm not connected. How can I get connected to this person? Um, could you say that differently? I don't know what you just said. Will you say that again? I wasn't listening." Whatever it is, but, like, yeah, I don't know. S- sometimes, sometimes being bored doesn't mean that they're boring. However, if they are, I gotta get out of there as quick as I can. You know what I'm saying?

Chris Williamson 1:22:29 Mm.

Rick Glassman 1:22:29 Like, this is, this is gonna sound, uh, uh, how it, how it may. Um, if somebody doesn't make me laugh or teach me something or feed me or make me come, and I don't mean me, I mean a human being, I believe, then what value are they offering me? Now, I'm not to say if, if you make me come, and that's all you do, that, that this is a, this is a healthy relationship, but I mean this quite literally. If you don't feed somebody, give them... You know, if you're not their boss, and they pay you, if, if there isn't some value that you're offering me, am I just supposed to be a good guy and just be like, "No, it's okay. He's a nice guy. I wanna listen"?

Chris Williamson 1:23:08 What would you say about, uh, a friend of yours who's in a hospital bed and needs looking after?

Rick Glassman 1:23:13 W- I don't understand the connection.

Chris Williamson 1:23:15 That they're unable to really offer you anything.

Rick Glassman 1:23:17 I don't mean every interaction has to be valuable to me. That, I mean, I would argue that, that by being able to show up for somebody in a selfish way makes you feel valuable. Um, you know, it's this idea of, like, when you give to charity, are you doing it 'cause it makes you feel good or 'cause you're helping them? W- absolutely both. I'm glad it makes me feel good, or they wouldn't get this help. So I don't mean everything I need to be constantly entertained or, you know, constantly validated by something. I just mean as in a relationship as a whole. Like, do you have any friends that you were friends with as a kid, and they're kind of grandfathered in? And, like, you love this person, and you hang out with this person, but whenever you're with them, it's just, you're just, "This is boring." I'm still friends with this person because I love this person, and I care about this person. I'm not excited to be around them, and I'm not... I'm not.

Chris Williamson 1:24:01 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:24:01 It's just a little boring. So, like, but when you're just meeting somebody, and after three dates or three friendships, "I don't know, man, I just, like, he doesn't get my jokes. I don't- he doesn't make me laugh." Um, that, that's okay if he's interesting. Y- your podcast, um, isn't the funniest podcast I've ever seen, and it's one of the few that I watch, and I love your clips. I mean, you, whoever picks your clips, you know what you guys are doing. But, like, I'm interested in what you have to say. Um, am I learning? Probably. I- is it just, "Oh," I- even if it's something I disagree with, and it challenges my mind, it's like, I don't know. It's something it's worth listening to me. So this idea of going out with people or being friends with people that, like, are boring, and, and I'm not saying that you're a boring person. I'm saying that I'm bored by you. You know, our frequencies-

Chris Williamson 1:24:49 Kind of incompatibility.

Rick Glassman 1:24:50 Yeah, our frequen- and I... The opposite is I probably annoy the shit out of you, and you're not wrong, but why are we just, "Well, they're nice, and why don't you give it a try?" Uh, so dating is that way, too. So I think that when you have a FaceTime with somebody, not that... Believe me, I do not need to have a FaceTime. I've backwards learned that, like, oh, that, that was interesting. I, uh, by the time I was on my third FaceTime with this person, which is potentially only 45 minutes of conversations total, which is less than one date, I got, "I'm so excited to meet you," and if I wasn't, I don't wanna waste, waste my time.

Chris Williamson 1:25:27 Life's too short for boring friendships in that way.

Rick Glassman 1:25:30 Yeah, and boring, I, I don't ju- I, I, I'm, I'm skeptical because I've said this once before, and I saw a comment that wasn't what I meant, and I believed that they received it this way, which was like, "Well, some people are boring."... like, not everybody is a comedian or friends with comedians. I don't mean like you got the best punchlines. I just mean, like, are you talking about things that are interesting

Rick Glassman 1:25:50 to me?

Chris Williamson 1:25:50 Well, here's one way to do it. In fact, let me give you this little essay, which is pretty cool. So, ah, Jenny Jerome, who was-

Rick Glassman 1:25:55 Mr. and Mrs. Jerome's kid.

Chris Williamson 1:25:57 Winston Churchill's mother. Ah, she once dined with both Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli and his rival, William Gladstone, on consecutive nights. When asked about her impressions of the two men, she said, "When I left the dining room after sitting next to Gladstone, I thought he was the cleverest man in England. But when I sat next to Disraeli, I left feeling like I was the cleverest woman."

Rick Glassman 1:26:17 Hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:26:18 Some people are interesting, some people make people feel interesting.

Rick Glassman 1:26:22 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:26:22 It's the difference between being interesting and interested, and this idea I came up with of reverse charisma. Like, most people think that they want their stories to be energizing, their aura to be electric or whatever, but what you actually want, and what I find myself being around more than even that, someone who comes in and is, "Ha!" Like fucking jazz hands-

Rick Glassman 1:26:42 Mm

Chris Williamson 1:26:42 ... is, "Wow! Like, I really feel fucking seen here." And maybe this is part of the connection, maybe it's the frequency thing that you're talking about, but if somebody-

Rick Glassman 1:26:51 Why do you see, see- feel seen when somebody comes in doing jazz hands?

Chris Williamson 1:26:55 No, no, no, no, I don't... My point is, somebody that comes-

Rick Glassman 1:26:57 You prefer.

Chris Williamson 1:26:58 No. Somebody that comes in and has this very electric aura, uh, it maybe is, as you said, ah, less boring, out there-

Rick Glassman 1:27:06 Yeah

Chris Williamson 1:27:06 ... lots of stories, all the rest of it, like whirlwind of social-

Rick Glassman 1:27:09 Doesn't leave you feeling seen.

Chris Williamson 1:27:10 But that's fine, and I like being around those people, but that, the skill set to be able to be that sort of a person, to have that kind of charisma, for want of a better word, I think is, ah, typically quite high. And maybe that was what, ah, triggered the person who left that comment, saying, "Well, some people are just boring." Maybe they thought that they are that kind of person.

Rick Glassman 1:27:28 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:27:29 I'm a little bit lower energy. I'm a little bit more thoughtful. I'm a bit more shy. I'm a bit more whatever.

Rick Glassman 1:27:33 Thoughtful isn't boring.

Chris Williamson 1:27:34 Okay, but if you don't say much, right? Let's say you just don't get the words out that quickly, or you don't think that quickly when it comes to, like, telling whatever. Um, if somebody feels that, if somebody feels like they might be boring-

Rick Glassman 1:27:46 Mm-hmm

Chris Williamson 1:27:47 ... and they're worried that they are, I mean, one thing is to go and have some life experiences and become a little bit more confident with your communication, all the rest of it, and that's great, and you should do that too. But a much quicker route to making people feel comfortable around you and to connecting with people, is to just get really good at asking questions, and that, the bar for that, I think, is significantly lower. So if you ask the question, like, "How did that make you feel?"

Rick Glassman 1:28:08 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:28:08 "Or why, or what did you mean by that?" Like, as somebody is telling a story, if they're even, like, remotely compelled by what they're talking about, that is them away for ages. Now, you, as the question asker, now have to deal with whether or not that person's interesting to you. And again, this is the compatibility. But if you're someone who thinks like, "Ah, fuck," like, "I wish I was more, like, socially competent," or, "I wish that people... I seem to like people, but I struggle to contribute to the conversation in a way, and I'm worried that I don't have much to talk about."

Rick Glassman 1:28:39 That right there, that awareness of what they maybe think is a shortcoming, is your, is your superpower. So if somebody doesn't know what to say, so they just don't say anything, maybe that is boring. And I use boring as a blanketed statement. I know it's blanket, but, but if you're, "Hey, guys, I'm, uh, you're all so charismatic, and I feel like I have no idea what to say," I am so invested now. I'm int- like, "What do you mean? I didn't even realize this. What are you feeling?" "I don't know. You guys are doing jokes, and I feel like I'm not saying anything." "Oh, fuck! Should we all be quiet?" You know, like-

Chris Williamson 1:29:18 Hmm

Rick Glassman 1:29:18 ... "Should we put on our sunglasses? We could find a game

Rick Glassman 1:29:20 together."

Chris Williamson 1:29:20 It's interesting that you've got-- So what you keep doing, the, the strategy that you keep going for, is calling out the game. So have you ever read, um, Escaping Flatland? It's a book from, like, 1850 or so. It sounds niche as fuck, but you, you might have heard of it.

Rick Glassman 1:29:34 Yeah, the, the, the book from 1850?

Chris Williamson 1:29:35 It, but it's, it's super famous. It's, it's a, um, a book about a two-dimensional world.

Rick Glassman 1:29:40 Man, you know so many things.

Chris Williamson 1:29:41 I-

Rick Glassman 1:29:41 I guess it's your job now.

Chris Williamson 1:29:42 I've just spoken to thousands of people-

Rick Glassman 1:29:44 Yeah

Chris Williamson 1:29:44 ... and I'm at the end of a thousand-person human centipede.

Rick Glassman 1:29:47 Uh-huh.

Chris Williamson 1:29:47 So, like, what I've got left is nutritionally very non-dense, but there was lots of it. [chuckles] Um-

Rick Glassman 1:29:52 Great. Great analogy.

Chris Williamson 1:29:54 Um, so-

Rick Glassman 1:29:55 It's actually my shirt.

Chris Williamson 1:29:56 [laughing]

Rick Glassman 1:30:00 Sorry, I messed up the momentum. Go on.

Chris Williamson 1:30:01 The end, uh, this book is about a two-dimensional world, Flatland, uh, and a three-dimensional sphere comes down to Flatland.

Rick Glassman 1:30:08 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:30:08 And this sphere is a circle, and the circle is able to make itself grow and shrink inside of Flatland, and the citizens are amazed. What they don't understand is that this sphere is moving itself through a dimension that they can't see.

Rick Glassman 1:30:19 Yeah. It's not getting bigger or smaller, it's just getting closer and further away.

Chris Williamson 1:30:21 Exactly, exactly. What you're doing, at least what it sounds like to me, your preference in terms of conversation style is, or what you would like to see more from some people, and your advice is, again, like we said, with the game of tennis, is to almost say, "Well, why are we using the racket? Why can't we use our feet?"

Rick Glassman 1:30:36 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:30:36 "Or does the net need to be there at all? Or can we leave the stadium? Like, or can we hit the... Why don't we hit the ball straight up as opposed to across the net to each other?" You're moving on a dimension that is not within the confines of the game. I think w- what I'm comparing with myself is, I tend to try and, um, achieve the same thing that you do, but within the confines of the game. I think I have less bravery socially for calling out that sort of stuff-

Rick Glassman 1:31:04 Hmm

Chris Williamson 1:31:04 ... than you do. So what I would do, and this is from a decade and a half of running nightclubs, standing in the front door of nightclubs, like, there is a particular sort of game that needs to be done. You need to do it really, really, really quick. So I need to keep it within this, but like, ah, this person's, like, too drunk, so I need to come up with a way to play the game, but also get them to realize they're not fucking coming in.

Rick Glassman 1:31:23 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:31:23 Or to, uh, get them downstairs before the door staff see, so that we can get their five pounds off them, even though they are too drunk to come in, or whatever it is that we're doing, right? As a part of that, what I like and what I find fun as a game is to see whether or not I can get the movement of the conversation for the shy person to feel more included, or for the, uh, extroverted person to shut the fuck up, or for the funny person to be more funny or whatever.... within the rules of the game. And I think that that's the challenge, maybe because of a, a insufficient social bravery to break the rule of the game and go and become the sphere sort of growing and, and shrinking, or just, I don't know, preference or whatever. But I, I'm thinking like, "Huh, how much do I do what Rick's saying he does here? How much do I, like, punk the game or call out the game? Like, how much do I say what's going on versus try and get the outcome that he's trying to get, but within the confines of the game?" And I think typically I do, I do the latter.

Rick Glassman 1:32:17 I wanna talk about this for, for a while.

Chris Williamson 1:32:19 Okay.

Rick Glassman 1:32:19 Okay.

Chris Williamson 1:32:20 Dig in.

Rick Glassman 1:32:20 First of all, when you... It seems like when you-

Chris Williamson 1:32:22 Sorry, can I have another water, guys?

Rick Glassman 1:32:24 Same, please.

Chris Williamson 1:32:25 Thank you. Yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:32:25 Uh, it seems like when you are talking about calling out the game versus doing it within the game-

Chris Williamson 1:32:32 Mm-hmm

Rick Glassman 1:32:33 ... as if those are two separate worlds. I don't wanna have to go over here. That's not what we're doing.

Chris Williamson 1:32:38 Mm.

Rick Glassman 1:32:38 I don't see us talking about which way we hit the thing as going over here. If you've never played pickleball before-

Chris Williamson 1:32:45 Mm

Rick Glassman 1:32:45 ... um, and you've played tennis, we could just do it, and then, you know, you, you, you, you don't- you step in the kitchen or whatever. I don't know the rules well enough.

Chris Williamson 1:32:55 Mm.

Rick Glassman 1:32:55 And, and I can be like: "Oh, you stepped in the kitchen," and then you'd be like: "Oh, you know, so you're out," or whatever the thing is.

Chris Williamson 1:33:01 [laughing]

Rick Glassman 1:33:01 And then eventually, you know, you'll figure it out.

Chris Williamson 1:33:03 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:33:03 Or you could be like: "Hold on a second. So let me just really quickly explain to you-

Chris Williamson 1:33:06 Yeah

Rick Glassman 1:33:06 ... this is what we're doing. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

Chris Williamson 1:33:09 Mm.

Rick Glassman 1:33:09 Do you, you might have questions. May- maybe you don't."

Chris Williamson 1:33:12 So I agree. The difference is that socially, the rules are unwritten. Uh, in pickleball, the rules are very explicit.

Rick Glassman 1:33:21 Where are the f- the pickleball rules written?

Chris Williamson 1:33:24 There's gotta be a document somewhere.

Rick Glassman 1:33:25 Ha- have you, have you ever played pickleball?

Chris Williamson 1:33:27 Yes.

Rick Glassman 1:33:27 Have you read the document?

Chris Williamson 1:33:28 No.

Rick Glassman 1:33:28 They're unwritten, then.

Chris Williamson 1:33:29 That's true, but they're written somewhere.

Rick Glassman 1:33:33 They're not. I... Yes, yes, somewhere they're written. I'm not s- but who, who's reading them? Out of all the people-

Chris Williamson 1:33:41 I'm g- I actually need to interject into your interjection here, which is I have a friend who lives in Austin, Texas, who did precisely that and did read them and broke the game of pickleball so badly that they had to litigate his new move out of the sport of pickleball.

Rick Glassman 1:33:55 It's like adding the three-point line.

Chris Williamson 1:33:56 He is Indian.

Rick Glassman 1:33:57 I know.

Chris Williamson 1:33:58 Which says a lot. [laughing]

Rick Glassman 1:34:02 These unwritten rules, I, I, I have been-- I have a, a document of a lot of things I would wanna do. They're more... There, there are some, some, some of them are chapters, some of them are examples.

Chris Williamson 1:34:11 Thanks.

Rick Glassman 1:34:11 Um, thank you very much. Um, Dean, are we okay with it down there?

Chris Williamson 1:34:14 That's Dean.

Rick Glassman 1:34:15 Oh, hey, Dean.

Chris Williamson 1:34:16 [laughing]

Rick Glassman 1:34:18 Um, I, I wanna, uh, write a book 'cause there are so many things that I never knew are like you're supposed to do. "Good thanks, how are you?" for example.

Chris Williamson 1:34:27 Mm.

Rick Glassman 1:34:27 And I wanna do a book called, um, uh, Unwritten Rules Written.

Chris Williamson 1:34:31 Mm.

Rick Glassman 1:34:31 And just this idea of like, oh, here's, you know, here's why when you go up- show up to somebody's house, it's nice to bring flowers or a bottle of wine, even if you know they don't want it. And not that you have to do this, but here's what some expectations are, that if you don't do them, at least, like, that be your choice.

Chris Williamson 1:34:45 This is your prep document, but for being a human rather than-

Rick Glassman 1:34:48 For-

Chris Williamson 1:34:48 -for dating you

Rick Glassman 1:34:49 ... for being their human.

Chris Williamson 1:34:51 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:34:51 You know, because being a human is, is y- you know, how much is it based off of my intuition of what I want and what I like versus what you're telling me I'm supposed to do?

Chris Williamson 1:35:01 Can we discuss a list of things I have that is some of the most difficult to do whilst looking dignified?

Rick Glassman 1:35:06 Yes, and after that, I want one of us to remember to go back to talk about the game thing.

Chris Williamson 1:35:10 Game thing. Um, picking up a moving ping pong ball.

Rick Glassman 1:35:16 You know what?

Chris Williamson 1:35:16 Very difficult to do with dignity. Like, if I throw a ping pong ball over there, and I'm like: "Rick, would you grab that for me, please?" And you're like, "Eh,"-

Rick Glassman 1:35:21 Oh

Chris Williamson 1:35:21 ... you stumble after it.

Rick Glassman 1:35:23 You're not an athlete.

Chris Williamson 1:35:24 Starting a stopped bicycle.

Rick Glassman 1:35:28 I get it.

Chris Williamson 1:35:29 Turning around, ever.

Rick Glassman 1:35:32 Eating, uh, a little bag of cereal with your hands.

Chris Williamson 1:35:36 Yes, yes. Uh, trying to consume soup that's too hot.

Rick Glassman 1:35:42 On the opposite end, um, eating from an ice cream cone that's melting.

Chris Williamson 1:35:46 And you gotta move real quick and get around the sides. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're like Bonnie Blue. Um... [chuckles]

Rick Glassman 1:35:56 You're out.

Chris Williamson 1:35:57 Working how... Working out how to sleep inside of a blanket in a room that is, uh, too hot while you're too cold, or while it, that is too cold while you're too hot. You're like: "Okay, do I go arms under and just poke my head out like a little mummy, or do I take my arms out and then pull it back down?"

Rick Glassman 1:36:13 Huh, that's making me think of being in a bedroom, uh, making love to somebody and then going into the bathroom while they're still in bed if you have a small ass.

Chris Williamson 1:36:22 If you have a small ass?

Rick Glassman 1:36:23 Yes, I have a small ass. So whenever I walk to a bathroom, I either have to moonwalk back, so they see my big, rock-hard cock-

Chris Williamson 1:36:30 Okay

Rick Glassman 1:36:30 ... or I have to say, "I have a little ass. Don't look at me!"

Chris Williamson 1:36:32 Why is it still hard?

Rick Glassman 1:36:33 Well, it was hard, but still, it's, it's, it's I guess it's not hard.

Chris Williamson 1:36:37 Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:36:38 Which is also, by the way, I used to be very embarra-- of course, it's embarrassing to be seen naked. I mean, it's a vulnerable thing, but if I'm gonna be intimate with somebody, and they see me soft, that's fine. It's gonna happen. Uh, you, I... If a woman ever sees my penis soft before hard, I am humiliated.

Chris Williamson 1:36:58 It's okay to have gone from, like, grower to shower, but not from, like, the soft to hard. It's like, okay, if, as long as you've seen the Statue of Liberty as it's meant to be-

Rick Glassman 1:37:08 It's almost as if, it's almost as if I think that she thinks when she sees my penis soft, she thinks, "Is that his penis when it's hard?"

Chris Williamson 1:37:14 Right.

Rick Glassman 1:37:15 Okay, so, so-

Chris Williamson 1:37:16 Have you ever called that out? "Just so you know, darling, this is soft right now. It does get harder than this."

Rick Glassman 1:37:21 You told a, um... I don't remember what it was, but it was a love note from a husband-

Chris Williamson 1:37:26 Which is fine

Rick Glassman 1:37:26 ... to his wife, and the r- the reveal at the end is she is no longer with us. Beautiful. I've, I've watched that a couple of times.

Chris Williamson 1:37:31 Yep.

Rick Glassman 1:37:32 Uh, and it makes me cry-

Chris Williamson 1:37:33 Made me-

Rick Glassman 1:37:33 ... when I do.

Chris Williamson 1:37:34 Yep.

Rick Glassman 1:37:35 He calls her darling, and to hear you say darling in that voice, in this context, when that w- way of darling is associated with this- [chuckles]

Chris Williamson 1:37:41 Yeah, right

Rick Glassman 1:37:42 ... it's really, it's what it's like when seeing my flat ass.

Chris Williamson 1:37:45 Pavlovian, Pavlovian response.

Rick Glassman 1:37:46 Uh-huh.

Chris Williamson 1:37:46 Okay, um, sidling into a booth at a sports bar, and you have to be the one that's right at the very end.

Rick Glassman 1:37:54 That's the one that I connect-

Chris Williamson 1:37:55 You've got to do that

Rick Glassman 1:37:55 ... out of all the ones that you said-... That's the one that I, I connect with the most.

Chris Williamson 1:37:59 Closing a car door whilst holding two bags of luggage.

Rick Glassman 1:38:02 No, that's the fucking coolest. You use your knee or something.

Chris Williamson 1:38:05 You gotta do that like, "Ah!"

Rick Glassman 1:38:06 No, that's cool guy stuff.

Chris Williamson 1:38:07 You gotta do that.

Rick Glassman 1:38:07 No, you don't have to do that. And why are you putting the luggage so high up? Keep it down here and give it a little nudge.

Chris Williamson 1:38:11 Okay. All right, fair enough.

Rick Glassman 1:38:12 You don't have to go like this.

Chris Williamson 1:38:13 Yeah, well, you do. You're like a, it's like rom-com, and you've just got back from the date, and you're like, "Ah!" And you're like... Yeah, that's it.

Rick Glassman 1:38:20 Um, drinking from a straw during a fight.

Chris Williamson 1:38:22 Fucking dude, drinking from a straw is so good. Trying to catch a straw that's-- Like, you've got a cup over here watching something or talking to somebody, and you miss it, and you go...

Rick Glassman 1:38:30 See, I think that's just fun comedy acting.

Chris Williamson 1:38:33 Okay.

Rick Glassman 1:38:33 I think even just going for a straw, my instinct, even when by myself, is [chuckles]

Chris Williamson 1:38:38 Like a horse. You look like a horse.

Rick Glassman 1:38:40 Oh, all right, man.

Chris Williamson 1:38:41 You know, when it does that thing where it goes like [gurgling] You ever seen that?

Rick Glassman 1:38:44 Um, I don't know.

Chris Williamson 1:38:45 Yes, you have. Punking the game again.

Rick Glassman 1:38:48 Why don't we just move on?

Chris Williamson 1:38:49 Okay, tell me about the rules of the game.

Rick Glassman 1:38:52 Nay, it's over.

Chris Williamson 1:38:53 Nay.

Rick Glassman 1:38:54 So do you have more, though? 'Cause I-

Chris Williamson 1:38:57 What else have I got that's in there? Yeah, you can go.

Rick Glassman 1:39:02 The idea of, uh... And if you have any, call them out.

Chris Williamson 1:39:04 Okay.

Rick Glassman 1:39:04 But the idea of, of, of the rules to the game, uh, and setting up, setting them up, I think that that is, that is literally getting on the same page with somebody.

Chris Williamson 1:39:16 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 1:39:17 So we could get on the same page by just kind of maneuvering and seeing if we could figure it out. But w- w- what's the... In the pro- list of pros and cons, what's the con of you saying, "Wait, hold on a second, I'm confused with this," or, "Hold on a second, it seems like you and I are on the same page"? We have to-- You have to serve it to the opposite end of the court. Like, what, what's, what's the con for not wanting to do that?

Chris Williamson 1:39:38 Mm. The con for not wanting to... Well, I'd-- The con for doing it is easier to make the case of, um, just that you have to-

Rick Glassman 1:39:50 That's what I meant. That's what I meant, yeah

Chris Williamson 1:39:52 ... break the flow of the conversation in order to be able to talk about the conversation. And typically, for some people, that feels a little bit uncomfortable.

Rick Glassman 1:40:00 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:40:01 Which you must see-

Rick Glassman 1:40:01 So you're cannibalizing the momentum.

Chris Williamson 1:40:02 Yeah, of course. We're back and forth, and we're back and forth, and we're doing the thing, and it's like: Hey, no, stop. And I think my point around where are the rules of the-

Rick Glassman 1:40:10 Right

Chris Williamson 1:40:10 ... conversation sport written and the fact that they aren't, I think what I'm-- The reason that I feel more comfortable, and I feel like most people would feel more comfortable talking about the rules of pickleball than they would the rules of the conversation, in whatever form you think that that exists-

Rick Glassman 1:40:26 Mm

Chris Williamson 1:40:26 ... is legitimacy. Because someone somewhere knows there's a fucking ancient scroll that's got the pickleball rules written on it. Uh-

Rick Glassman 1:40:35 Well, there's an ancient scroll that says you're supposed to say, "Good thanks, how are you?"

Chris Williamson 1:40:38 But is there? No, I don't think there is, not in the same way, because it's unconstrained. Uh, here's another one. Let me give you this one, which I love as an e-

Rick Glassman 1:40:47 Okay

Chris Williamson 1:40:47 ... as an, as an example. Your capacity at pickleball is not judged as being close to your sense of self.

Rick Glassman 1:40:55 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:40:55 I'm not saying... And for a professional pickleball player or somebody who is a, a insecure overachiever, maybe you do feel like your performance in pickleball at the local pickleball league determines your self-worth. But most people would say, if you made some error in the game of pickleball by stepping into the kitchen, that doesn't mean that you are bad or that you are lesser.

Rick Glassman 1:41:15 Yeah, and I think what a bummer that if you make an error and you say... Oh, he was an Indian guy, by the way, and you're like: "Oh, maybe I shouldn't have said that." "Oh, that you're a bad pickleball player."

Chris Williamson 1:41:22 Okay.

Rick Glassman 1:41:23 Like-

Chris Williamson 1:41:23 He's a great pickleball player.

Rick Glassman 1:41:24 No, no.

Chris Williamson 1:41:24 He's number two in the world.

Rick Glassman 1:41:25 No, I'm s- I'm, I'm, I'm being s- sincere. I'm saying that, like, if you do something bad in pickleball, it's not gonna affect your self-worth-

Chris Williamson 1:41:33 Mm

Rick Glassman 1:41:33 ... traditionally, you're saying. Where if you, you know, get in a booth, and you have to go to the other end, or a girl sees your flat little bullshit ass, I'm less than. What a bummer!

Chris Williamson 1:41:45 Well, that's true. Uh, my point is, when we're talking about conversation-

Rick Glassman 1:41:51 Bummer. Sorry, me, even me addressing it stops the momentum.

Chris Williamson 1:41:53 A little, but it's funny.

Rick Glassman 1:41:55 It wasn't that funny.

Chris Williamson 1:41:56 All right. Well, I mean, you did it.

Rick Glassman 1:41:57 Yeah, but-

Chris Williamson 1:42:00 Which side of this debate do you want? Do you want to defend yourself or not?

Rick Glassman 1:42:03 Oh, I didn't even realize that's what I was doing.

Chris Williamson 1:42:05 No.

Rick Glassman 1:42:06 I, I'm like, I'm interested in this.

Chris Williamson 1:42:08 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:42:08 And, and, like, I didn't realize that's what I was doing. I'm like, uh, just, uh, noticing like, oh, like the momentum shift. Okay, this is what he was talking about, and I'm just trying to form an opinion on that just then.

Chris Williamson 1:42:18 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 1:42:19 But now I'm feeling like I'm stepping on what you're saying.

Chris Williamson 1:42:22 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:42:22 And you called me out on something that I'm, I'm a little confused with.

Chris Williamson 1:42:24 [chuckles] I was just trying to... 'Cause you said, "Bummer, it's funny." You said, "bummer," presumably because you thought it was funny. And I'm like: Well, you said it presumably because you thought it was. I said, "It's funny." You said, "No, it's not." I'm like, which one?

Rick Glassman 1:42:36 Okay.

Chris Williamson 1:42:36 You can either say it and believe it or say that it wasn't funny, but you don't get to do both.

Rick Glassman 1:42:42 I mean, I guess, were these rules written somewhere? Do you wanna talk about it?

Chris Williamson 1:42:46 Fuck you. [chuckles] Okay.

Rick Glassman 1:42:48 In my mind, the bummer is a throwaway. You familiar with this term over where you're from?

Chris Williamson 1:42:53 Tag. Little tag?

Rick Glassman 1:42:56 There's a difference, and we don't need to get into it.

Chris Williamson 1:42:58 Cool.

Rick Glassman 1:42:58 Throwaway is, um, w- if you hear it, enjoy it or don't. If you don't hear it, it doesn't, it doesn't... It's, there's no exposition in it. It doesn't matter. It's just something that's like, "Oh, yeah, nice car."

Chris Williamson 1:43:08 So it's my fault?

Rick Glassman 1:43:10 Oh, man, you are an overachiever. So what I'm saying is when I-

Chris Williamson 1:43:13 Allow me to make your bummer my fault.

Rick Glassman 1:43:15 [chuckles]

Chris Williamson 1:43:16 Your flat ass is now my- [chuckles]

Rick Glassman 1:43:17 It's funny that you say that.

Chris Williamson 1:43:18 Your bummer is my fault. Um, oh, let me fucking finish this thing. Um, in conversation, your, uh, ability to converse, to, um, make the other person feel socially comfortable, to be accepted by the group, um, you're playing within the confines of the game in a way that is associated with your sense of self-worth. And a g- a good example of this, to compare the two, when I first started doing the show, I wanted to, um, become a better speaker. So I got a diction coach and an improv-- I started doing improv, and I did some other bits and pieces. Some of my friends said to me, "Well, now that you're doing speech training, what about-... your accent? What about, you know, what if they degrade your northern accent, north British accent? And I was like, "Well, you know, I'm, I'm not gonna be able to completely get rid of it, and that's not even my goal. I just want to become better at speaking." But I noticed that they wouldn't have said the same thing if I was a pianist, and I said that I was going to go and get a teacher to teach me to be better at the piano. No one would've said, "Well, what about your beautiful, natural way of playing the piano?" And you go, "Well, there are objectively better and worse ways to play the piano, and by working with a teacher, I can become better." There are objectively better and worse ways to get words to come out of your mouth. Be more precise, you can use your consonants to allow things to clip and to sound more effective. Okay, why is it that someone sees the way that you speak as close to your sense of self, but the way that you play the piano is not close to your sense of self, in that if you were to work on it and improve it diligently, uh, and deliberately, that's good in one scenario, and slightly odd and almost like you're warping yourself and changing yourself. And to just do one more loop back to the pickapartist thing, I think that was one of the reasons that women have an ick around finding out that men have sort of done dating training-

Rick Glassman 1:45:11 Mm-hmm

Chris Williamson 1:45:12 ... because, well, who are you really if this is you curated and cultivated and improved because you learned dating or something? Well, how, how, where, where's you? Where are you in there? And there are some things that are close to our sense of self and some things that aren't.

Rick Glassman 1:45:28 Uh-huh.

Chris Williamson 1:45:29 Pickleball, I would say, except for a very select few of professionals, is not close to your sense of self, but conversation is. So when you call out the rules of the game, it's pickleball.

Rick Glassman 1:45:38 But we're still talking about the game, we're not talking about the person.

Chris Williamson 1:45:41 That's true, but I think that the person and the game, when it comes to conversing, is merged much more closely than it is in many other pursuits.

Rick Glassman 1:45:50 I believe you. I just don't feel it that way.

Chris Williamson 1:45:52 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 1:45:52 I also don't even connect with what you're saying about your speech coaching and piano. I think that I play the piano, and I think there's literally a term of phrasing when you play, and the way that you phrase and the way that you move between chords is your accent, is your uniqueness.

Chris Williamson 1:46:07 Like a signature.

Rick Glassman 1:46:08 Yeah, if you were, if you were playing, uh, sheet music, uh, and you, you play to the rhythm and you play the notes that they're doing, but there's a reason that this person sounds different than this person. Similar to acting, where, you know, some s- some script-- I, uh, I did a commercial with Jim Parsons. Do you know who Jim Parsons is? He's one of the guys from Big Bang Theory, and we talked a lot because at the time, I was on a, a, a, I was on a multicam and he's on a multicam. Um, multicam is a TV show. There's like, um, single cams and multicam. Multicam is one that's a play, but there's a camera, so there's no fourth wall, there's a live audience usually.

Chris Williamson 1:46:38 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 1:46:39 Um, and traditionally, plays you don't improvise too much because there's so much choreography with the blocking of the camera switching and everything, right?

Chris Williamson 1:46:47 Yep.

Rick Glassman 1:46:48 Um, on his show, on Jim's show, that, uh, uh, which is Chuck Lorre, where he's known for not only are you not allowed to improvise, you need to pause when there's a comma. It's very exact, right?

Chris Williamson 1:47:01 Yep.

Rick Glassman 1:47:01 If you're going to be a great multicam actor for this type of, uh, boss, hit your mark, know your words, know your pauses. But then, well, what about what I bring to it? What about my phrasing? You're gonna have your phrasing built into it, or you'll be a robot, right? And I feel that way with a piano as well, as much as dictation. I mean, whether it's your accent or it's your charisma of, like, putting things aside and adding your own little twist, whatever it might be, it's, it's, as a comedian, it's called find-- I mean, most artists, it's like finding your voice. What's your voice? Do you know who Sebastian Maniscalco is?

Chris Williamson 1:47:36 Yes.

Rick Glassman 1:47:37 He's one of my favorite comics. I tr- when I tell people about him, I, I can't-- I tell his joke-- I can't. I'm not able to do his joke. I know all the words.

Chris Williamson 1:47:48 That's interesting, despite being a comedian and also knowing the joke.

Rick Glassman 1:47:51 And, and, and l- appreciating it, like this is... It's not like I'm saying something that's not funny to me, trying to make it. This is funny, I know all the words, and I do this professionally. I cannot do his thing. I cannot do it. It won't work.

Chris Williamson 1:48:03 That's funny.

Rick Glassman 1:48:03 It's his phrasing.

Chris Williamson 1:48:04 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:48:04 It's his faces, it's his-- Even if I do the same timing.

Chris Williamson 1:48:07 Yep.

Rick Glassman 1:48:08 Um, anyway, I'm realizing that, like, this, the, the, the past, like, forty minutes has been a little bit of us, um, uh, I can imagine, uh, me, uh, like contradicting the conversation of what you're saying. Like, I even said, when I said about the piano, I saw you go like this.

Chris Williamson 1:48:27 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 1:48:28 Um, I just want to acknowledge, pardon me for saying the rules of the game, I'm having such a good time, and I love conversations like this.

Chris Williamson 1:48:33 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 1:48:33 I also could imagine it's going all over the place.

Chris Williamson 1:48:35 No, I'm enjoy-

Rick Glassman 1:48:36 I don't want you to rein it in.

Chris Williamson 1:48:36 I'm a- I'm having a ton of fun as well because it allows the... It's not meandering, but it's allowing you to go where it's interesting, which is cool.

Rick Glassman 1:48:45 I also think, like, when I watch your, your, your stuff, I like, I ha- I have these thoughts. I like, I don't talk to you, but the thing's like, "Oh, fuck yeah, that's incred- I don't know. What is he...?" And I'm like, I'm just, I'm, I'm just now consciously recognizing, "Oh, I'm watching, I'm watching this."

Chris Williamson 1:48:59 Yeah, you just happen-

Rick Glassman 1:49:00 You know?

Chris Williamson 1:49:00 ... to be an active participant.

Rick Glassman 1:49:01 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:49:01 No, I, so I, I, to kind of bring it into land or to put a bow on the, the, the conversation thing, um, mm, the reason that I liked the inverse charisma idea-

Rick Glassman 1:49:12 Which is getting people to believe that they're interesting

Chris Williamson 1:49:15 ... Yeah, by being good at asking questions-

Rick Glassman 1:49:17 Yeah

Chris Williamson 1:49:18 ... is that, um, assuming that s- probably some significant cohort of people that that is pretty useful to are maybe a bit shy or a little bit more introverted or not super confident. I think that you can go from, uh, shy and introverted, to being good at asking questions, to maybe being interesting at telling stories. I think that the black belt level of this is doing what you're doing and saying, "Why don't we call out the game itself?" I think the amount of bravery that's needed, typically, in a social situation, to be like, "I'm feeling a bit bored at the moment. Anybody else feeling a bit bored? Why can't we- we- why don't we talk about something else?" or whatever, especially one-on-one with somebody-

Rick Glassman 1:49:55 Mm

Chris Williamson 1:49:55 ... uh, that requires a leapfrog of-... uh, bravery that I think most people would struggle to get to.

Rick Glassman 1:50:04 You're doing reverse charisma right now.

Chris Williamson 1:50:07 How so?

Rick Glassman 1:50:07 By telling me what I'm doing is black belt.

Chris Williamson 1:50:09 Ah.

Rick Glassman 1:50:10 You're making me feel like I'm good at something.

Chris Williamson 1:50:11 Uh-huh.

Rick Glassman 1:50:12 However, I think what other people do is the harder thing. I'm not doing the hard thing because why not? I think not acknowledging the thing is where I'm uncomfortable, and if I wanted-

Chris Williamson 1:50:24 Yeah

Rick Glassman 1:50:24 ... to challenge myself, and I have done this. Uh, I have a story. Maybe I'll even tell you about this if there's time and you're interested, but this just happened, and I had to call a friend that was like a sponsor for... I was going on a date with this girl, and she kept pushing the time back, which- and I-

Chris Williamson 1:50:37 The same day?

Rick Glassman 1:50:39 So-

Chris Williamson 1:50:39 Tell the story.

Rick Glassman 1:50:40 Uh, okay. Um, so there's this c- woman that, um, we've never met, but we follow- we followed each other on social media for years. Um, uh, at any given time, if we're both single, there's maybe some mild flirtation, and then there's not. So, like, we don't know anything other than our projections of what they post, right? I go, uh, to a city, I'm being vague on purpose. Um, I go to a city, and she... I'm doing shows there, and she wants to come to the show. Now, um, I'm only doing two shows, and some cities' tickets sell well, some not so much. These were sold out, and I happened to have, uh, saved a guest list of tickets, and I have two tickets saved for her, and I don't know what show she wants to go to, so I save two for both. Friends wanted to come, p- people that sell... Whatever, i- it's not that big of a deal. Like, I, I, I could give these tickets away. If I don't, I don't. Whatever. Um, so she was coming to the first show, but I still saved the second show because who knows what happens? Um, the day before the first show, uh, she didn't tell me. I checked in saying, "Hey, um, do you, uh, you know, here's the place if you, if you're coming," blah, blah, blah. "I'm so sorry, I have to... I'm out of town. I'm working," ah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, "but, um, uh, I wanna come to the other show." And then the day before that show, she messaged me and goes, "Hey, is it possible I get two tickets, so I could bring a friend?" I said, "I already have two tickets for you." My friend who comes with me, who's, who, who opens the show, he has some friends in town. He asks if they could have, uh... Is there any way we could get tickets? I don't- I only have these two tickets, and I'm, I'm giving them to somebody else. Not that big of a deal, but whatever. I got a text after the show that 15 minutes after I went on, "Hey, sorry, I can't make it." It happens. It does. It would've been nice if you told me before the show. I could have given these tickets away. It's just... It's not necessarily a red flag, but it is something that I, I was disappointed, and it happens. "I really wanna see you, though, um," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So we plan this day. I'm doing these things this day. I'm free at this time. I tell her that. She tells me where she lives, blah, blah, blah. My assumption, and I'm aware it was my assumption, my assumption was I said, "I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm done at this time. I'm free at 5:" that since she didn't say, "I can't do 5," we were gonna meet at 5. Um, when I finished my thing at 4 something, I messaged to, like, make some plans. She goes, "Hey, I'm da, da, da, da, da, da, da. I'm gonna take a shower. Let's meet at 7:30. Let's meet at 7." So in my head, I'm like, yeah, I made the assumption 5, great. There's shows in town that I could do. A friend invited me to dinner that I can't go to, because I'm, I'm going on this date with this girl. Um, 7:04 comes, because, oh, uh, she said she was gonna pick a place because I didn't know. I, I said, "I, I understand it's, it's very masculine for a person to pick a place. I found these things. If you like them, let's do them. If not, I would love a little bit of help here. Where should we go?" Uh, 7:04, and I'm saying it's 7:04 because in my head, I'm like, I'm waiting for her to message me, but I also don't wanna gamify this. I'm, i- I didn't get the information. She's not a great texter, at least not yet. Um, I don't- at 7:04, we're, "Hey, where... You know, did you figure out a place yet?" At 7:30, she said, "I'm so sorry, I'm running a little bit behind. Can we make it 8:30?" I'm now thinking to myself, f- I... We said 5:00 to 7:00 to 8:30, but we have to take the 5:00 off the table. That was my assumption. But why don't we split the difference, the tickets that I couldn't give away? It's just, I'm like, "What are we doing here?" So I'm already now feeling, once we move it to 8:30, I'm feeling like my ego doesn't even wanna meet this person anymore. Um, it is what it is. At, at 8:30, um, at 8:30, not before 8:30, at 8:30, she said, "Hey, I'm sorry I'm running late. C- uh, can we... Uh, I wanna make it 9:00. If you don't wanna meet... Now, if it's too late, I understand, but I still really wanna meet you."

Chris Williamson 1:54:27 You don't want to meet.

Rick Glassman 1:54:29 It wasn't that. I, I could look it up. It was basically what I received it was her feeling bad that she pushed it back, um, while also not, not conceding that she didn't make this a priority. Not this being me, this being her commitments. Um, "And if it's too late, I understand," giving me an out, but letting me know, "I still really wanna see you." I'm now like, I, I could have gone to dinner. I mean, if we made it at 9:30, I could have, you know? Um, and I wrote... I'm now thinking like, "Okay, if she comes, comes..." And, and by the way, the plan where we were gonna meet was now, um, she said, "I, I'll come..." She was gonna come to my hotel. This... Literally, it's an awesome hotel with a fun lounge downstairs. There's no, in my mind, assumption or, or th- there's nothing hookup about this. It's just, she's now gonna come to me for convenience, I guess. And I'm thinking to myself, uh, "There's no way I'm gonna be able to say nice to meet you and not call out the game."

Chris Williamson 1:55:24 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:55:24 "This is fucking na-

Chris Williamson 1:55:26 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:55:26 Da, da, da, da, and she... The, the tickets and the this.

Chris Williamson 1:55:28 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:55:29 So I, I wrote a letter, a, a letter, I mean a text, but a letter. Um, I actually kinda wanna read it, and maybe this is embarrassing. I didn't send it.

Chris Williamson 1:55:36 Okay, great.

Rick Glassman 1:55:37 Can I pull it up?

Chris Williamson 1:55:37 Snag it. Yeah, yeah.

Rick Glassman 1:55:42 So I wrote something that I knew I was writing this for me, but after I wrote it, I'm like, "Should I send this?" And I sent it to a friend, who I'm glad told me no, because his, his logic was, and I agree with this-... you would always say this later. If you end up meeting this person, and you feel safe, and, and it's brought up, you have this- you, you, you're in touch with, with your feelings. But before you ever meet a person-- So what, what if I, if I didn't give you this setup and, and I was just, and someone would be like: "Hey, Rick's a bit much." "What do you mean?" "Let me show you this text he sent a girl that he never met." You'd be like, "Dude, you're fucking out of your mind." So I wanna add the context, and I'm aware of that, but this is how I articulated it to myself, and I wanted to send it to her. Uh, I don't know how embarrassed I'm gonna be yet because I don't remember this yet. I didn't send it. [chuckles]

Chris Williamson 1:56:32 There's a caveat.

Rick Glassman 1:56:34 "I wanted to share something before we meet, because if I didn't, I think I'd end up canceling or showing up in a way that doesn't feel genuine. I've been feeling frustrated. We were planning to meet at 5, then moved to 7, and then to 8:30. I turned down a stand-up show and another podcast so we could get together, which I was happy to do, but it left me feeling like my time wasn't really being considered. Same with yesterday," I didn't send this. "I held my last two tickets for you, and when you let me know you weren't coming, the show had already started. I totally understand that plans change, but the timing left me feeling overlooked. I know you've had a busy week traveling. I get that things have been a lot. I'm not saying this to guilt you, only I'd rather tell you where I'm at than show up hiding. If meeting up doesn't feel right after hearing that, I'll understand." By the way, at nine th- uh, at, at, uh, 9:30, it, uh, at 9:00, it moved to 10, and she apologized that her friend is going through something, and she lost track of time, which she didn't lose track of time, because you told me. Um, and, uh, uh, she's r- "I'm running together. I'm getting it together." Um, I said: "Hey, at this point, I'm at my hotel. Uh, if you wanna come, I'd love to see you. Uh, uh, if not, it is what it is. You know, I'm, I'm... Now I'm not doing anything anyway, so..." Um, she tells me at, uh, at 10:20 something, that, um, that, uh, uh, "I'm in, I'm in the car." And then she said: "Well, technically, I'm waiting for the car. Is now still okay?" I said, "Yeah, come." Uh, she sa- uh, uh, her Uber is maybe 10 minutes away. Thirty minutes goes by, and I said: "Are you coming?" And she said, "Yes, sorry, five minutes." I thought she meant she's in the Uber, it's five minutes away. After 20 minutes, I realized, oh, best-case scenario, she meant the car is five minutes away. I messaged... Uh, when she said I messaged her back, my o- it was a bit passive-aggressive. It was my only way of fe- feeling like I'm being honest. I said: "Oh, I didn't realize you were crawling here."

Chris Williamson 1:58:34 [laughing]

Rick Glassman 1:58:34 And then she, she ended up getting there at 11 something, drunk. Drunk! Which, by the way, I am so unattracted to people who are drinking. It's the grossest. I'm not saying it doesn't serve a purpose. I'm saying I ca- I don't wanna be around it.

Chris Williamson 1:58:49 It's not hot.

Rick Glassman 1:58:50 A drink is different than, you know-

Chris Williamson 1:58:53 Drunk.

Rick Glassman 1:58:53 I could tell you're drunk because your lips aren't the way they're supposed to be. You know, it's just like... And I'm like, now I'm fucking forced to do this podcast with her for 90 minutes. By the way, Daniel Craig was there, okay?

Chris Williamson 1:59:05 That's cool.

Rick Glassman 1:59:05 Very. And I go, "That's James Bond," and this is his own thing, but she goes, "Who?" And she's looking right there. I'm like: Be fucking cool. And she goes, "That's not him." And I was just like, "All right." I'm like, "You know what?"

Chris Williamson 1:59:18 You went through the 90 minutes?

Rick Glassman 1:59:20 Yeah, I was there with her for 90 minutes.

Chris Williamson 1:59:21 Why did you not just pull the rip cord on-

Rick Glassman 1:59:24 Can I tell you the truth?

Chris Williamson 1:59:25 Yes.

Rick Glassman 1:59:26 She's unbelievably beautiful, and I'm not proud of this, and I'm, I, I... She's, she, she is, she's so beautiful.

Chris Williamson 1:59:38 Even drunk?

Rick Glassman 1:59:40 There's a difference between being attracted to somebody and thinking that they're attractive, right? I was actually happy that I wasn't attracted to her in that moment. I'm like, "Oh, I'm glad that, that this is not okay with me." Meaning that... But I wasn't enough to where I was like: "Hey, we gotta, you gotta get out of here."

Chris Williamson 1:59:58 Mm.

Rick Glassman 1:59:59 Also, the conversation wasn't the worst, and she's the mean... It was, it was, um, if it were a podcast, it would I, I wouldn't have posted it, and I don't think I've ever done that. You know what I mean? But I was like, "She's so beautiful, and this is-

Chris Williamson 2:00:14 I just get to look at this thing for 90 minutes.

Rick Glassman 2:00:16 [inhales] It's, it's, it's less, it's more, it's more, um, childish than that. It's like... I'm try- I'm, I'm, I'm articulating this to myself as well. Like, it's somebody that I'm, that got grandfathered in. I've, we've, like, I've, I, I... This person that, oh, I've been wanting to meet, not, I don't know if I'm gonna like them or not, and there's, there wasn't a, any type of like a, like, this crazy draw to them or so like this is really... And then I was excited all, all week to meet this person. And then I do, and I just, "Wow, she's so pretty." There's something, it was just, I'm in this cool city. I'm in this cool hotel. It's this beautiful girl. It's just, it's really fun to flirt. It's really fun to flirt. I like flirting-

Chris Williamson 2:00:57 At 11:30 pm, after it's been pushed back, I, I, I don't know if I would have... I, I commend you for, uh, first off, not sending that. Secondly, I think the way that it's written in terms of, like, this, "I just want to state to you, this is how I'm feeling, and this is why," and I think it's, you know, it's pretty balanced. Uh, I commend you for going through the 90-minute thing. I think my bitterness radar, my-

Rick Glassman 2:01:23 Yeah

Chris Williamson 2:01:23 ... my piss offness, uh, uh, I wouldn't have been able to reach equanimity, and then drunk, I would've just been like, I-

Rick Glassman 2:01:28 I may have buried the lead. Within five minutes of meeting, I told her all of this.

Chris Williamson 2:01:33 Ah.

Rick Glassman 2:01:33 I forgot to say that.

Chris Williamson 2:01:34 Did that relieve-

Rick Glassman 2:01:36 That, z-

Chris Williamson 2:01:36 ... the pressure?

Rick Glassman 2:01:36 I think the only reason why we were able to have the 90 minutes.

Chris Williamson 2:01:39 Yeah, okay.

Rick Glassman 2:01:39 She came in, and she said how embarrassed she is and how sorry she is, and I said, "I wrote a l-" I wr- I said, "I wrote a text to a friend that I never sent to you, and now that you bring this up, I kinda wanna tell you some things."

Chris Williamson 2:01:48 Right.

Rick Glassman 2:01:49 I didn't read it to her, but she, and I told her.

Chris Williamson 2:01:50 Yep.

Rick Glassman 2:01:51 Yes, I, I hear you. I, I, if I, had I not said that or had I said that, and she received it-

Chris Williamson 2:01:56 Yeah

Rick Glassman 2:01:56 ... unkindly-

Chris Williamson 2:01:57 I think even with that, dude, I think the drunk thing would've just... I would've been like, am I, is this, this a, a practical joke? This has to be a practical joke.

Rick Glassman 2:02:03 I thought, I, I thought, I thought-... not even the drawing. I thought the way it kept being pushed back, I thought it was, are we gonna see how long he's gonna be willing to do this thing?

Chris Williamson 2:02:11 Yeah, are you with your group of friend-

Rick Glassman 2:02:12 Yeah

Chris Williamson 2:02:13 ... male friends going, "I'm fucking stringing this guy along"?

Rick Glassman 2:02:15 I'm feeling a bit self-conscious right now about admitting something that was true, but not the only thing about, "Oh, 'cause she's so beautiful." I mean, she is, and that's, that was true, but that wasn't, that wasn't what drove me to wanting to have the date. I mean, if I wasn't attracted to her, I wouldn't wanna have it. It was when she showed up, there is a novelty to this thing, where it was just like, that's what I meant about more childish, like this idea of like this high school thing of like, "Oh, this pretty person wants to hang out with me." Like, I, I could pretend that didn't exist, but it does.

Chris Williamson 2:02:47 Mm.

Rick Glassman 2:02:47 You know, I feel that way, I feel that way all the time with my podcast when people come over, and like when Sebastian came over. There's no way he's coming over and doing this if I don't have a podcast. So like, but I'm still aware of like, this is fucking crazy.

Chris Williamson 2:03:02 It's a little bit like, uh, being a porn star and getting to have sex. Like, they, I mean, they might want to do this, but they wouldn't be doing this if we weren't at work. Like, they're doing it because all of the cameras are here.

Rick Glassman 2:03:12 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:03:13 So but I get the simulacrum of like, we're friends for like 90 minutes or two hours, we're friends, and-

Rick Glassman 2:03:17 And I get to fi- I get to ask you questions that I've wanted to ask you.

Chris Williamson 2:03:20 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 2:03:20 And I feel like-

Chris Williamson 2:03:22 And you have to answer them, kind of.

Rick Glassman 2:03:23 I- y- y- you g- yeah, I mean, or otherwise, like, you know, I'll ask you different.

Chris Williamson 2:03:27 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 2:03:27 But yeah, there is this feeling like I, I, I both love who I am and feel like, "Why wouldn't you wanna be friends with me?" I also have this thing, like I told you, I didn't really have friends as a kid, and I didn't even recognize it. I didn't feel unincluded, but I was, and I didn't... Meaning, I didn't recognize what being included means until I started playing basketball. And like, these people are forced to be my friends, but they also, we have the same goals.

Chris Williamson 2:03:53 Porn star, podcast guest-

Rick Glassman 2:03:54 Yeah

Chris Williamson 2:03:54 ... basketball team.

Rick Glassman 2:03:55 So that still exists for me. It still exists for me where, like, I, I've become friends-- Do you know who Lisa Gilroy is?

Chris Williamson 2:04:01 No.

Rick Glassman 2:04:02 I think she's one of the funniest people in the world. She's been on my podcast a bunch now. She's an improviser and an actress, and she's unbelievably funny. She comes over, and when she comes over, I, and I've said this to her, I, like, it feels like I'm so glad we're friends. Like, you wanna be friends with me, right? The way we play with each other.

Chris Williamson 2:04:17 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 2:04:17 There's this feeling of like when people wanna be friends with me, and I know it, where it's not like, "Oh, finally, somebody likes me." It's not... It's, it doesn't, uh, remove a negative that exists. It's just this thing of like, fucking I have, like, it's cr- having friends is crazy! Having friends is... Like, you wanna play, and being around a person that you're physically attracted to is another thing. It's like, this is fucking aw- I love fucking looking at you. It feels so good to look- you wanna kiss me? You wanna kiss me. It's just, I'm not like, "Why would you wanna kiss me?" But I am so glad that you w- you wanna... Like, d- d- uh, when I was in s- school, when friends would go, sometimes friends would go over to other friends, and everyone knows that because they had a pa- a, a, a, a, a note that the s- that the moms, both moms or parents send, or guardians, and the school agrees to that, "You're going on their bus." So like, when th- so, like, you know this kid's going on this kid's bus, so you know after school they're gonna go and be friends with each other. And I was always like, "Fucking that's crazy. All day you know he's coming on your bus." I still have that feeling, and it, it isn't exclusive to attractive people, but it is ex- it does feel it's all very high school-

Chris Williamson 2:05:30 Yep

Rick Glassman 2:05:31 ... like, the, the, the varsity team or the pretty people-

Chris Williamson 2:05:34 Status games

Rick Glassman 2:05:34 ... or the funny people.

Chris Williamson 2:05:34 Cool people, rich people, interesting people.

Rick Glassman 2:05:37 Oh, interesting. I never thought about rich people, but I can see how that's a thing.

Chris Williamson 2:05:40 Yeah. Well, I g- a- anybody that has anything that other people want.

Rick Glassman 2:05:43 That's, that's the value thing. If somebody can make me laugh-

Chris Williamson 2:05:45 Yeah

Rick Glassman 2:05:45 ... or like, if you're a awesome basketball player.

Chris Williamson 2:05:48 But the, that's the, uh, how would you say? Like, more shallow, transactional-

Rick Glassman 2:05:52 Yeah

Chris Williamson 2:05:53 ... version of that is, or maybe they can invest in my company, or maybe, maybe they know somebody that I can hire for this role that I need.

Rick Glassman 2:05:58 Oh, more sh- I was thinking even that was shallow. Yeah, I think that, I think... But isn't that how-- I think that if, if your motives are undefined to the other person, then that's a bit like-

Chris Williamson 2:06:11 Mm.

Rick Glassman 2:06:11 But like, if you were to say, "Hey, I'm a huge fan of yours, and I, I want you to love what I do because I think you might-- you'd be a great partner for me, and, and if it offers value to you, I would love to work with you."

Chris Williamson 2:06:21 Yeah, that's true. It's, it's u- the assumption-

Rick Glassman 2:06:23 Defining intention.

Chris Williamson 2:06:24 Yeah, the assumption there is that one person needs to coerce or cajole or convince the other person, like, and they wouldn't do if they had all of the information.

Rick Glassman 2:06:34 Right. Right, yes.

Chris Williamson 2:06:34 Like, "I want you to invest in my company, but you probably don't want to, but I'm gonna Fugazi you into thinking, and I've got special kind of access, and I'm gonna do something in this situation that allows me to get that." Yeah.

Rick Glassman 2:06:46 I went to a, a school for marketing and theater, and in one of my sales classes, uh, I learned that... I've also grew up, my parents are in retail, and I've been in retail a lot. Um, but, uh, when you try and sell somebody something, um, you're acting for yourself, but if you're trying to offer somebody a value. So like instead of saying, "Hey, I need to sell these phones," but instead, "I'm trying to overcome an obstacle that you have, that this phone would help overcome."

Chris Williamson 2:07:12 Mm.

Rick Glassman 2:07:12 So, like, finding out somebody else's needs. If you are-- if this wouldn't benefit you, then I don't even wanna sell this to you because it's a waste of both of our time, and it's manipulative. But if the other person has... So, like, don't sell the product, sell the, sell the obstacle that the other person has.

Chris Williamson 2:07:31 Yep.

Rick Glassman 2:07:32 And that's like what you're saying, of like, you know, "You have a lot of money, and w- what's $100,000 to you? Just let me have it."

Chris Williamson 2:07:38 Yep.

Rick Glassman 2:07:38 And then another version of that, that is, that feels very like Hollywood is this idea of like, "I'm only, like, talking to you and being friends with you because maybe you might want to." And then you see somebody else, you know, like, having conversation with somebody, and then they see somebody else. "I'll, I'll, I'll say right away, I, I'm not saying that you wanna go and talk to somebody else, but if you do, like, we could end this conversation." I, I, I, I'm not, I... When people, when I'm talking to somebody on their phone, I don't think that they shouldn't be on their phone, but I'm, I'm gonna wait.

Chris Williamson 2:08:05 Mm.

Rick Glassman 2:08:05 When, when I'm with somebody, and they go to the bathroom, when we're watching something, I'm gonna press pause. It's all the same shit. But when I see somebody doing that, there's no way... I'm not with you anymore.

Chris Williamson 2:08:14 Mm.

Rick Glassman 2:08:15 ... I'm not with you yet. So just say, "Hey, listen, I know this might be rude, but there's a, fucking Dwyane Wade is over there, and is a huge fan, and I wanna see if I can, like, kind of get in, get a picture. Come with me, or I'll come back and have this conversation. I just gotta go see Dwyane Wade."

Chris Williamson 2:08:26 Mm.

Rick Glassman 2:08:27 You know, v- the thought isn't super... The superficial thought is human. It's the way that you hide it, or br- or from yourself and/or the other person.

Chris Williamson 2:08:35 Yeah.

Rick Glassman 2:08:36 And that's where the practice of calling out the game, I think is just, it's not brave. What's brave is to not look at Dwyane Wade and just pretend that I'm here with you when I'm not. [chuckles] You know what I mean?

Chris Williamson 2:08:50 I don't think that's brave. I think that's cowardly.

Rick Glassman 2:08:53 It's harder. I guess instead of saying brave, I'll say it's harder.

Chris Williamson 2:08:55 It's, yeah, it is. It is in, in some ways you're suppressing something, but it's, uh, emotionally maybe easier, certain emotions. Like if your, uh, shame and your codependency, uh, and your social awkwardness is stronger than your need to get a photo with this guy-

Rick Glassman 2:09:12 Yeah, yeah

Chris Williamson 2:09:12 ... you like, your, um, like desire, passion, whatever, uh, curiosity. Um, you're like, "I'm gonna lock in. I'm gonna keep looking, and this is gonna be okay, and, uh, uh, don't look at him again." Yeah.

Rick Glassman 2:09:24 And then, and then, and then y- but you also, you find your differences to say, "Hey, listen, I don't wanna be rude. I just saw Dwyane is there, and I wasn't listening for a second. I'm back with you, but how fucking cool is that?" Like saying, just acknowledging, acknowledging-

Chris Williamson 2:09:36 So doing it-

Rick Glassman 2:09:36 Otherwise, I'm here.

Chris Williamson 2:09:37 Doing it in a classy way, I think the delivery of this is l- the devil's in the details of how you actually do this thing, because you can do it in a really clunky way, right? And I imagine somebody who-

Rick Glassman 2:09:51 What's a clunky way, if it's honest?

Chris Williamson 2:09:53 Clunky way? Well-

Rick Glassman 2:09:53 Still honest-

Chris Williamson 2:09:54 Yeah, that's, that's-

Rick Glassman 2:09:54 ... but what's clunky?

Chris Williamson 2:09:55 Uh, well, there are, are better and worse ways. Like the one that you just did there, which is like, "Dude, like I just seen this guy, and he's, like, he's so fucking cool," and, "Isn't that sick?"

Rick Glassman 2:10:01 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 2:10:01 "Like, should we go over? I, I, I wanna go over. Do you wanna come with me?" Like, part of it's the inclusion, the sense that you're involving them. Uh, it's the sort of, uh, doing it as a little undercurrent thing.

Rick Glassman 2:10:14 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 2:10:14 It's like, "Oh, this is us. This is our little secret thing, and, like, you're in on it," as opposed to-

Rick Glassman 2:10:17 Oh, that's such a funny way. You're right, that's, uh, that's a funny way of looking at it. By doing it like this, it's almost as if I'm telling you what I'm thinking, but I'm also including you-

Chris Williamson 2:10:27 Yes

Rick Glassman 2:10:27 ... in my thought.

Chris Williamson 2:10:28 You're part of it.

Rick Glassman 2:10:28 Yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:10:28 So you're, you're not excluding.

Rick Glassman 2:10:29 That's such a interesting way of looking at it, of like... Yeah, y- you're including somebody. Yeah, I th- I think sometimes maybe I- I'm saying something that I feel is valuable information, the rules to a game, but I'm doing it for me and not necessarily including the other person. And maybe that's, like, what you're saying of like, "Oh, it messes up the momentum or changes things because..." Anyway, it's just an interesting perspective that I hadn't, I hadn't thought of before.

Chris Williamson 2:11:12 I think so.

Rick Glassman 2:11:13 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:11:14 Uh-

Rick Glassman 2:11:14 I think that's awesome.

Chris Williamson 2:11:16 Yeah. Well, how wonderful to- [chuckles] ... make somebody feel included in this thing.

Rick Glassman 2:11:22 Obviously, but like, yeah, I don't think- I think that's a, I think that's a, a tool that I could sharpen of like, is this including somebody? This happens when things feel serious to me, and, um, I don't wanna... Yeah, whatever. Um, I don't have more to say on that. I just think it's a, it's a- I love the way that you articulated the thing that I was already doing, but here's maybe why this works-

Chris Williamson 2:11:50 Mm

Rick Glassman 2:11:51 ... versus, "Hey, I'm doing this now."

Chris Williamson 2:11:53 Mm.

Rick Glassman 2:11:53 Like, me not messaging that p- how do I know when to tell the person the thing I'm feeling? Sometimes you, you tell this person that's kind of... You know, I do think if I messaged that to her before we ever met, it wouldn't benefit either of us, because, because, um, it, it could benefit either of us, but there's a, there's a better chance of doing it in person-

Chris Williamson 2:12:18 Mm

Rick Glassman 2:12:18 ... eye to eye, where they could, they could hear my tone instead of assume it. Like, wait a second, but I, like, I felt like a liar by not sending it. I'm not okay with this. I'm not okay with moving it to 9-

Chris Williamson 2:12:30 Mm

Rick Glassman 2:12:30 ... or 9:30-

Chris Williamson 2:12:31 Mm

Rick Glassman 2:12:31 ... or 10:00.

Chris Williamson 2:12:31 Mm.

Rick Glassman 2:12:33 I could be, if she knew how I felt. But, like, swallow it now, and I do think, like, and I didn't know why, even though I agree with that, I do think by telling her that I'm not including her in how I'm feeling, I'm telling her how I'm feeling. And I do think there's a significant difference, whether it's literally saying, "You could come with me to Dwyane Wade," or like saying, "Hey, I want to tell you..." Even just the whispering, it's like it's, "Hey, I want to... This is just for you."

Chris Williamson 2:12:59 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's lovely. Uh-

Rick Glassman 2:13:06 I love- there's sometimes something, uh, something you just realize or something somebody says, and it's like, oh, you could put- I could put that in my bag now, where it's just like, when in doubt, ask, "Is this including this person?"

Chris Williamson 2:13:21 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 2:13:22 So yeah, thanks. That was great.

Chris Williamson 2:13:25 Dude, that's awesome.

Chris Williamson 2:13:26 Rick, let's bring it home. Bro, I, I've, uh, I've really been looking forward to meeting you. Uh, I've been- I actually had a question for you, uh, which was w- why... Well, I guess you explained it earlier on, that you feel you learn something, and sometimes it's interesting, even if it's not quite in your wheelhouse. Uh, but I was surprised that you were a, uh-

Rick Glassman 2:13:46 [chuckles]

Chris Williamson 2:13:46 ... fan of the show. I didn't think that it was slap bang in the, the middle of the, the bullseye of what you would be into. Uh, but then actually, I, I mean, I, I've had a lot of conversations with people that on the surface I think would have been like, "Oh, well, obviously, these, like, the- these two people make sense."

Rick Glassman 2:14:02 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 2:14:03 And today's been, like, so much fucking fun.

Rick Glassman 2:14:05 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:14:05 I found it very, very cozy, actually, to be honest, and like very intimate.

Rick Glassman 2:14:08 Sweaters.

Chris Williamson 2:14:09 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Rick Glassman 2:14:10 Um, I don't know you asked me, but I have an answer-

Chris Williamson 2:14:13 Mm-hmm

Rick Glassman 2:14:13 ... for, um, watching your stuff. One-... um, as a, and I don't mean this term derogatory, but as a performer, like you are a performer. I'm not saying you're- it's disingenuous, but I mean, like, as somebody who is in front of cameras, literally looking straight to the camera and saying stuff, you're aware of you're doing this with a purpose for people to consume it, right? Um, there are some performers that I feel like I believe you, and some I don't. And not believing somebody isn't a bad thing. Like, I know Robert Downey Jr. isn't Iron Man, but I could still buy into it. You know what I mean? Like, that's a-- he's doing a certain type of performance. So on one thing, I believe you. I believe that you want to be saying what you're saying, and also by design of what your show is, it seems like you're, like, you're documenting your growth, whether it's literally how many subscribers you have or how many people shit before it got into your mouth. You are just like, you're learning, and that's, like, part of the context of this. So I just connect with that because it's like, maybe you have something that will benefit me, you know, like, like the perspective of inclusion, which maybe somebody has said to me before, and it just didn't clock at the right time. Um, and then you have guests on that, um, that are like... that have points of view. So, like, the combination of a point of view that I might share and might not share, opposite somebody who I believe that since I'm not in the room to call somebody out or to ask a curiosity, I believe that the person who's there is gonna do it the best that person can. And, um, I just think it's an attractive show. It is, and I mean, it's liter- visually, it is too, but, like, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's stuff that helps that doesn't feel like I'm watching a self-help. Not that there's anything wrong with watching self-help, but it's just people talking about, "You know what I've noticed?" And like, you did notice it. [chuckles] You know what I mean?

Chris Williamson 2:16:06 Mm-hmm.

Rick Glassman 2:16:06 Like, "Oh, here's something you actually noticed."

Chris Williamson 2:16:08 Mm.

Rick Glassman 2:16:09 Let me listen. I think you have a great show, dude.

Chris Williamson 2:16:11 Thank you.

Rick Glassman 2:16:12 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:16:12 That's really kind. I really fucking love yours as well. I think that the, uh, way that it makes me feel, most importantly, it's not what I take away, it's like the way that it makes me feel, and like, I don't know why this is the word of the day is cozy. Maybe it is like jumper vibes.

Rick Glassman 2:16:28 Nice.

Chris Williamson 2:16:28 And the, the, the, the, um, bio, the little, little description-

Rick Glassman 2:16:34 Mm-hmm

Chris Williamson 2:16:34 ... that you've got of it, and the-

Rick Glassman 2:16:35 I actually remember that. I wrote that, like, when I first started the podcast.

Chris Williamson 2:16:37 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I, uh, I- I think I'm a boy or I'm a silly boy or something-

Rick Glassman 2:16:42 [chuckles] Yeah

Chris Williamson 2:16:42 ... like that in that. And, um, yeah, the, the little illustration that comes across, like, he's a little cute. He's, like, po- poking out behind the side.

Rick Glassman 2:16:48 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:16:48 Yeah, to me, it's like, oh, fuck! Like, it feels like I can just, uh... It's like Sunday afternoon shit for me, and that's, like, very, very nice.

Rick Glassman 2:16:56 I, I, I, by design, uh, having a studio would benefit for a lot of different logistical reasons, but by design, I want to do it in my living room. I also-- when people come over and they want to have their publicists, like, people who I w- don't know who I am, and I would love to have them on, I say no, and, uh, y- nobody else can be in the room. And it's just you're in my living room, and I want to feel like you're in my living room. And I do think there's a coziness to it that maybe that's a coincidence that you said it, maybe not, but that is, like, a tone of this show where maybe I'll be funny, maybe I won't. But as long as we could both be comfortable and, like, show up as we are now-

Chris Williamson 2:17:30 Mm

Rick Glassman 2:17:30 ... then, like, I don't have to worry about was this good or not?

Chris Williamson 2:17:32 That's definitely something that's been a challenge with doing these, uh, what we call the cinema shoots, which is what this is-

Rick Glassman 2:17:37 Mm-hmm

Chris Williamson 2:17:37 ... that, uh, trying to make it feel like unencumbered, natural, like, fuck, you know, there's all of these-

Rick Glassman 2:17:45 Mm

Chris Williamson 2:17:45 ... cameras and all of this stuff and the lighting, and it looks fantastic. But okay, how do we, like, get to the fucking connection bit, and how do we get out of, not necessarily performance mode, 'cause you used the word professional earlier on, which I thought was really good. It's like, um, uh, uh, turning up when you're nervous or, or energized or whatever the closest-

Rick Glassman 2:18:02 Mm

Chris Williamson 2:18:02 ... approximation was. It's like, that's being a professional. That's being a professional. I turn up, and I do my job. Even if I, fuck, I'm too tired, or I didn't learn my lines, or I, you know, this new bit's gonna fucking eat shit, whatever it is, like, I'm a professional, so I'm gonna turn up and do that. But what you're trying to do with a conversation like this is get to that moment where it's like, ah, like we've circled around this fucking drain.

Rick Glassman 2:18:24 Have you figured out any tricks that you could articulate?

Chris Williamson 2:18:27 Ooh! A little bit. The right amount of foreplay before you get in, which was what we did, uh, like no more than ten minutes.

Rick Glassman 2:18:36 Dude, that's so funny that you say that because I, by design, don't want-- like, 'cause I meet people outside and walk them in, and I say-

Chris Williamson 2:18:42 You sometimes start filming outside, eh?

Rick Glassman 2:18:43 No, no, no, I say, uh, I, I