The Contrepreneur Formula Exposed: Behind The Scenes | Mike Winnet

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   I am Mike Winnat…

   1. MWMike Winnet0:00

      I am Mike Winnat and I am a get-rich-quick ad clicker. All those things that you see in your news feed on Facebook or Instagram, I think they are amazing. I'd love to be a millionaire in six months so I believe them all, I click them all, I invest all my own money into it. Here's everywhere I've put my money, this what happens over the next year, this is what was promised, and these are the results. And that's all I do, I put that content onto YouTube.

   2. CWChris Williamson0:22

      What's the success ratio been like?

   3. MWMike Winnet0:23

      Uh, none of them have worked so far.

   4. CWChris Williamson0:25

      (laughs)

   5. MWMike Winnet0:25

      Which is weird because the only people that seem to get success from it are the people that are selling you their course to do it, which is... I mean, maybe I'm just unlucky.

   6. CWChris Williamson0:33

      (laughs)

   7. MWMike Winnet0:33

      I try my best to make them work. (laughs) They just don't so far, but I still carry on winning hope. I will be a millionaire this time next year from all of these different schemes.

   8. CWChris Williamson0:45

      I am joined by Russell Brunson's best friend and the undirected king of LinkedIn, Mike Winnat. Mike, welcome to the show.

   9. MWMike Winnet0:54

      Cheers for having me on. Thank you.

   10. CWChris Williamson0:56

       It's a pleasure to have you here. Massive fan of your YouTube channel and the work that you've been doing recently. Um, a lot to talk about today, I think. A lot of the listeners will be very familiar with internet marketing and, um, get-rich-quick schemes and they'll be targeted by the ads probably on this video on YouTube. They will almost definitely be targeted by those ads. So, uh, yeah, we got a lot to delve into today. So for the listeners that don't know who you are, would you be able to explain what you've been doing on YouTube over the- the last few months?

   11. MWMike Winnet1:27

       Yes. So I am Mike Winnat and I am a get-rich-quick ad clicker. So all those things that you see in your news feed on Facebook or Instagram, I think they are amazing. I'd love to be a millionaire in six months from dropshipping or through flipping products on eBay and affiliate marketing. So I believe them all, I click them all, I invest all my own money into it, and I report my results as they are compared to what the claims made by the gurus is. And that's all I do, I put that content onto YouTube and you can see for free whether they work or they don't. That's it.

   12. CWChris Williamson2:04

       What's the suc- what's the success ratio been like?

   13. MWMike Winnet2:06

       Uh, none of them have worked so far.

   14. CWChris Williamson2:08

       (laughs)

   15. MWMike Winnet2:08

       Not one. Which is weird because-

   16. CWChris Williamson2:10

       (laughs)

   17. MWMike Winnet2:11

       ... the only people that seem to get success from it are the people that are selling you their course to do it, which is... I mean, maybe I'm just unlucky. But I can t- I promise you, I've tried my best.

   18. CWChris Williamson2:20

       (laughs)

   19. MWMike Winnet2:22

       I've tried my best to make them work. They just don't so far. But I still carry on winning hope. I will be a millionaire this time next year from all of these different schemes.

   20. CWChris Williamson2:31

       I think one of the... Y- y- you hit straight on one of the points there, which is that unless you have the money to be able to spend on these particular courses-

   21. MWMike Winnet2:41

       Yeah.

   22. CWChris Williamson2:41

       ... there's no, there's no way of foolproofing them.

   23. MWMike Winnet2:44

       No. No, no, that's- that's true. That's true. Uh, yes, so there is- there is no way t- to foolproof them. I don't... I think the- the problem with them is how they're marketed to people as if anyone can do this, it's easy, and it's passive income and you can make this money from two hours a week, three hours a week. It's like targeting people that don't want to put the effort in, in many, in many ways. But also, of course, they're going to make it sound easy and anyone can do it with no startup cost because if they said, "Actually, it's 100 hours a week and you need money to start," then they wouldn't sell as many of these courses. So that's true.

   24. CWChris Williamson3:18

       Yeah. It's- it's so interesting. I think that proliferation of these sorts of schemes and- and adverts and, I mean, anyone who's scrolling down Facebook, the number of times that I've heard the sentence on YouTube, "I can't believe that people are still working in this old way."

   25. MWMike Winnet3:38

       Yeah.

   26. CWChris Williamson3:38

       But like, an Australian guy, then an American guy, then a- a- a guy from down south, then a whatever guy. And it's like, "What the fuck is going on?"

   27. MWMike Winnet3:46

       Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like stupidly, um, I have worked really hard to earn money and when I had my own business, I used to do six days a week, 16-hour days and I didn't get paid what they're getting from just doing two hours in their mom's spare bedroom, you know, per week. I wasn't getting those returns. Um, and then luckily, I was lucky enough to grow a business and sell a business and then create enough money to afford me to do this sort of two-year little experiment, which I regret sometimes.

   28. CWChris Williamson4:14

       (laughs)

   29. MWMike Winnet4:17

       So I have my ups and downs with this, like a love-hate, um, kind of project, to be honest.

   30. CWChris Williamson4:23

       Yeah. Well, I mean, you've- you've recently sort of seen a massive influx in terms of exposure and plays though, right? Like, the last couple of weeks have been insane.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   (laughs) …

   1. MWMike Winnet15:00

      we just thought, "Why don't we do the complete opposite? So we'll just... it's pay a monthly subscription and then you can get access to all of our content." Similar to Netflix. Similar to Netflix, we'll give you new content every week, so when a new course comes out, you don't have to pay us any more money, you can have it for free. And we said, "If you don't like what we do, we don't wanna keep someone unhappy, just leave. Like, we're not arsed. Just, just leave. We're not trying to get the most money out of you. We want you to be a fan, an advocate." And we did that and we absolutely just tore... like-

   2. CWChris Williamson15:31

      (laughs)

   3. MWMike Winnet15:31

      ... hammered the industry. We d- we were taking people's-

   4. CWChris Williamson15:33

      (laughs)

   5. MWMike Winnet15:33

      ... f- left, right and center. And people said, "You must have your pricing wrong because it's so much cheaper than everyone else's." And we said, "No. They've all done it wrong. This is how it should be done."

   6. CWChris Williamson15:43

      Mm-hmm.

   7. MWMike Winnet15:44

      And it was one of the companies that told us in the first few months that, you know, we, we wouldn't be around if we carried on like that, that ended up showing the most interest to buy us out.

   8. CWChris Williamson15:52

      Amazing.

   9. MWMike Winnet15:53

      So-

   10. CWChris Williamson15:54

       Amazing. (laughs)

   11. MWMike Winnet15:54

       But yeah, it was, it was. It's quite an interesting story in many ways. But, don't wanna sound weird, but we knew it was gonna work. We knew it was gonna happen, so we sort of planned for that exit in the first couple of weeks. It was like, "This is the day we are gonna sell and this is how much we want." So every decision we made on that way was backwards planned from that point.

   12. CWChris Williamson16:15

       Unbelievable. That's so good, man.

   13. MWMike Winnet16:17

       Yeah.

   14. CWChris Williamson16:17

       That's great. It's, it's really nice to hear, especially given that you've worked through the industry and a lot of people that are listening, right? This kind of ties into, I suppose, why people are tempted to do these online courses from the contrapreneurs-

   15. MWMike Winnet16:31

       Yeah.

   16. CWChris Williamson16:31

       ... the, the, the online marketers, because they want that. They want to be able to know that, "In three years time I've got an exit that's worth nearly 10 mil." Like that's, you know, that's, that's the goal, the fucking golden dream that everybody wants. But yeah, the whole point of what you've come across there is that you s- you had some existing experience which at least allowed you to frame the particular situation appropriately, and then moving forward, you came up with a unique product and then just single, single mind aimed towards the goal that you knew that you wanted. The whole-

   17. MWMike Winnet17:03

       Yeah.

   18. CWChris Williamson17:04

       ... the whole point of that is the fact that you had a unique offering. Like, without the unique offering, everything else would have just fallen apart. But the first thing that strikes me about these online marketing courses is that if everyone is learning the same thing as you, your offering cannot be unique, by definition.

   19. MWMike Winnet17:20

       Yeah. I, I say it so many times. Logic would state, you are turning your customers into competitors, and it's the shittest business model ever. That's, that's why it doesn't work. It's like, "Oh, I'm gonna teach you..." So if I had a property seminar when I did property training in Warrington and I'm showing... I'm talking to 1000 people and I'm a property investor and I make most of my money in property in Warrington and I can tell you how to find below market value deals, why would I teach a room full of 1000 people how to do the thing that I earn my money from? I want as m- few of you to know how I make my money-

   20. CWChris Williamson17:53

       (laughs)

   21. MWMike Winnet17:53

       ... so I can carry on making my money. Unless, whisper it, I'm not making that much money from actually property investing, I'm making money from teaching people how to invest in property, which is something I think that a lot of these people do.

   22. CWChris Williamson18:06

       Mm.

   23. MWMike Winnet18:07

       It's... and... Yeah, go on.

   24. CWChris Williamson18:09

       So, let's get into it. How would you define a contrapreneur?

   25. MWMike Winnet18:15

       So really, I think a c- a contrapreneur is someone that...... sells shovels to a gold rush. So they're telling everybody there's a gold rush on, this is how you can become rich and wealthy, yet they don't make money from the actual thing that they're telling you're- you to do. They are selling you theory on how to do it. But there's no evidence to suggest that they've made that money doing that very thing. And that's what it is and it targets as many people as possible to sound as easy as possible. And then once they've got you in their sort of sales funnel, they will upsell you, "Well, do you know what? The reason why it's not worked at this stage, six months down the line, is because actually if you just pay me another three grand for my once-a-month mentoring, I'll give you an extra bit of the secret sauce." And then, "Ah, the reason why it's not worked now, well, the reason why it's not worked is because it doesn't work." But they'll still tempt you, "Well, there's actually a higher level to get to and then you'll know the real secrets and the real secrets." So it's just basically getting you into the net, following you through, and taking as much money from you as possible. That's it basically. And you can... It's, they follow pretty much the same script. It doesn't matter what the passive income thing is that they're selling, the language is the same, the formula and the process that they use to get you in the net, even through to the same backstories. I hear the same backstory at different events now, 'cause I go to all these events. And, um, so that's what they do. They basically sell shovels to wantrepreneurs and people desperate to leave their a- their, their rat race basically.

   26. CWChris Williamson19:41

       Yeah.

   27. MWMike Winnet19:41

       But wantrepreneurs.

   28. CWChris Williamson19:42

       Wantrepreneurs. Nice. I like that as well.

   29. MWMike Winnet19:45

       Yeah, so they're entrepreneurs and they basically sell the dream to wantrepreneurs and sometimes it's vulnerable people, desperate people. But I'll say this and be clear, I don't think that all training's bad. I don't think that all training's a con. I don't think that any, every single person that ends their price in a seven, which is something that a lot of them do, is a con. 'Cause if you read their YouTube comments, some people take what you say literally, like, "Oh, well, he's got a price that's a seven. So you're saying he's a scam." Like, no, if you get value from that and you have achieved that thing from that person, he isn't a wantrepreneur to you. He might be to the 99% of other people that failed on his course. Do you see what I mean?

   30. CWChris Williamson20:23

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Oh, great. I get…

   1. CWChris Williamson30:00

      major gripe, I'm gonna go off on a Gary tangent for like one minute. My major gripe-

   2. MWMike Winnet30:03

      Oh, great. I get loads of stuff about Gary, by the way. People now think that I'm like-

   3. CWChris Williamson30:06

      Best buds with him.

   4. MWMike Winnet30:07

      Yeah. Yeah. Like, I've met the guy once.

   5. CWChris Williamson30:09

      (laughs)

   6. MWMike Winnet30:10

      And he said he was gonna introduce us to Netflix. He's still not managed to do that yet. So, like, I'm, I'm not a Gary V. fan.

   7. CWChris Williamson30:18

      Mm-hmm.

   8. MWMike Winnet30:18

      I'm not a Gary V. hater. Gary V. is just a guy that runs a business and could potentially help me out or not. That's it, as far as I'm concerned.

   9. CWChris Williamson30:23

      Well, fuck me. Like, Gary, Gary's contacts are unbelievable. So I'm good friends with the guys from Social Chain, which isn't far from you in Manchester.

   10. MWMike Winnet30:29

       Yeah.

   11. CWChris Williamson30:29

       Big social media agency. Good, good friends with Dom, who's the COO and-... a bunch of the guys that were there from the start. And I, I discussed this with, about, about Gary there. And my, my only, my major concern about Gary is that he doesn't sleep enough.

   12. MWMike Winnet30:42

       Yeah.

   13. CWChris Williamson30:42

       That's my major concern. I'm just thinking, there's a couple of immutable truths in life, right? And, like, not sleeping equals earlier death and Alzheimer's.

   14. MWMike Winnet30:53

       Yeah.

   15. CWChris Williamson30:53

       Like, that's, that is a fact. Same as dropping a ball from a height. Like, it is, it's coming for you, Gary, 'cause there's some toxins in your brain that really, really need to fuck off. And all your myelins-

   16. MWMike Winnet31:03

       It's dan-... It's dangerous, isn't it? This whole work, you know, till your eyes bleed, that mentality, it's dangerous. I get you have to work hard, but you can't sustain that for 23 hours a day for three years, five years, 10 years, because all you're doing is it's got, it's a reaction or a consequence of that is you're shortening your life by 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. So yeah, some of the advice he gives, I think, is, is bullshit. But then, but you all know this from the internet, I think on the internet people think if you like someone, you have to agree with everything they say. They say one thing you disagree with, it's like, "I hate that person now. I don't like that person now." So I don't agree with loads of things my friends say. You don't fall out with them or whatever. It's like they say some things, it's true. They say something that's bullshit. You just... But with the internet, it's crazy, isn't it? It's like people are like, "I love Gary. Everything he says is gospel." Well, don't say, don't think that. It's stupid if you think that, do you know what I mean? And I think sometimes people take everything he says as, as gospel and, like, you've got to do that. You don't. I think a lot of the stuff he says is bullshit if I'm honest.

   17. CWChris Williamson32:02

       Mm-hmm. Yeah, you're totally right. The, uh, overworking thing, I, I've done it, and you may have done it as well in the past, like, in your 20s, Jordan Peterson, again, to, to sing his praises, he says that everybody in their 20s who's an entrepreneur, it would be a good idea for them to work out just how much they can work. So it's like in your 20s, you don't have sufficient responsibilities that are going to hold you back from working to your maximum capacity. And he actually suggests that for short periods, see if you can do 14-hour days six days a week and see what happens. And I-

   18. MWMike Winnet32:30

       Yeah.

   19. CWChris Williamson32:30

       I, I didn't do it by design, but I, I've, I've done that more by neuroticism, I think but, um, and fear. But, um, yeah, (laughs) I've, I've done that and I've played around with that. And then he's saying, "Well, okay, now see what happens if you only work two days a week." And I've also tried doing that. Um, the two days a week for me personally was a lot worse 'cause of the cabin fever than the 14 hours. But I think you're right. Gary, you have put the words hustle and grind on the bottom of Perroquet Swiss.

   20. MWMike Winnet32:57

       Yeah, yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson32:57

       Like as soon as you've, as soon as you've done that, you, uh, you're kind of, you're kind of out of the chill, out of, from work conversation. Like, that's you over there with your hustle and grind shoes on.

   22. MWMike Winnet33:07

       Yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson33:07

       Uh... (laughs)

   24. MWMike Winnet33:08

       Yeah, at that, uh, at, at that event wh- that we went to, I went to a Success Resour- Sources event and Gary was there. And, um, just seeing people with his trainers on and that-

   25. CWChris Williamson33:17

       (laughs)

   26. MWMike Winnet33:17

       ... and, like, seeing p- pro- peop- like grown men queuing 'cause you p- you paid... If you wanted, like, a, a diamond ticket so you could sit two rows closer than the people that paid 10 times less, sat behind you-

   27. CWChris Williamson33:28

       (laughs)

   28. MWMike Winnet33:28

       ... and you got to ask Gary a question. Grown men in their K-Swiss Hustle and Dirt clouds and whatever it is, Heaven and Hell shoes, whatever bullshit it was, uh, they were wearing. Um, one question you can ask Gary V., this is the guy that you, you know, you worship, you idolize. Just, "Can I have a hug?" Grown men saying, "Can I have a hug?" And I was just like, "What's this world come to?" Like, you could ask them anything about business. You could ask him... But that's what it came down to. I thought, "It's just a weird kind of world we live in."

   29. CWChris Williamson33:55

       What a bizarre situation. So-

   30. MWMike Winnet33:57

       Yeah. (laughs)
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Yeah. …

   1. MWMike Winnet45:00

      from his, um, business plan he was going to give you for 3-9-7, uh, three h- 397 pound, which is usually, uh, $5,000 but, uh, 5,000 pounds, 397. It was basically-

   2. CWChris Williamson45:11

      Yeah.

   3. MWMike Winnet45:11

      ... a, a GCSE business, bus- like plan. You c- you can download it online. It's bullshit. Anyway, he would turn your business into a 10 million pound business in eight months, which is a mad claim when you don't know the sector of the people that are in your audience or what they're like as individuals. But people swallowed it. 70 people got up and signed up. Um, now, in the close of his pitch, he said, "Buy now," 23 times in the three minutes leading up to the price reveal. Um, and it was ridiculous. It was like, "Buy now. You realize you can't miss an opportunity like this. Um, if you follow this step by step, um, buy now." It was like, everything was like, it was like, "Buy, buy, buy, buy," to the point where w- like we're laughing. We find it funny. Interestingly as well, in the crowd, when some people... It's like hypnosis and they kind of weed out the people it won't work on. So they get rid of people that are negative from the crowd. They get told not to come back or they get, th- they get moved constantly. There's people in the audience being moved and it's really-

   4. CWChris Williamson46:10

      Did anyone just refuse? Because especially being British and being as disagreeable as I am, if someone came over and I was sat down in a seat and they said, "You didn't put your hand up when you said, 'Do you want more money or more time?' " or something like that, like I'd, I, I wouldn't move. But were, are people-

   5. MWMike Winnet46:25

      Yeah, I-

   6. CWChris Williamson46:25

      ... just so into it that they're already getting shifted around or...

   7. MWMike Winnet46:29

      Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's strange. It's like, have you ever watched, um... This will sound weird. Now, I used to live in Ibiza for... A long time ago, I used to live in Ibiza and there used to be a team of pickpockets that worked on the street below the apartments I used to live at. And I used to watch them every night. And I used to... To the point where I c- I could see the signals that like one would flash his lighter, then the, the, the crowd would start moving. It was all basically Yeah. And the s- the s- the street would stand still until someone came either drunk or intoxicated. The sign would be given to let people know whether it was, it was under the influence of drugs or drink. And then literally, a ball would roll out into the, into the street. A woman would walk past, bump him, and I'd see, I'd see people get pick-pocketed over and over again. The scenes in these rooms are very similar to that. It's like people move at exactly the same times when I've seen the same show at different events. People, it, it, it's so... It sounds like I'm crazy explaining it, but when you've seen that many people at these events and you've seen so many of these events, you'll realize the whole psychology of the event and everything is set up for you to, um, spend your money basically. And anybody that doesn't sch- look like they are going to do that, they get rid of them. So-

   8. CWChris Williamson47:43

      The main thing that I, I'm struck by there, apart from the fact it's manipulative and, and, and is taking advantage of vulnerable people, is how fucking sophisticated it is.

   9. MWMike Winnet47:51

      Yeah, it was big business though, isn't it? So say these events, um, I don't know, say it's a Success Resources event, however much that person on stage sells, they have to pay 50% to Success Resources. That's how it works.

   10. CWChris Williamson48:05

       Mm-hmm.

   11. MWMike Winnet48:05

       So it's big business, so that's why they want to fill the rooms. That's why they get people to move forward so it looks busier. That's why everybody in that room wants you to spend money. So no one's there trying to help you. If it's not right for you, they're not going to say, "Do you know what?" And I think that's why people leave of their own accord because they realize it's bullshit, but everybody else around them is like wooping, st- stood up. I remember speaking to one woman there. She didn't have a business and she went and spent 2,000 pound... Well, it was 1,997, 1,997 on a course to brand her business. And I actually said to her, "What, what are you doing?"And she went, "Oh, no. I couldn't ... This is it, this is what I needed to put." You've not got a business or service or product that you sell, so what are they going to brand? "Oh, it doesn't matter. They'll help me come up with an idea for a business." And I just think there's people like that that ... She was paying on a credit card. She's not got a business. She's not got a service. Why are they taking the 2,000 pound off her to help her brand her business that doesn't even exist yet? It's-

   12. CWChris Williamson49:05

       Mm-hmm.

   13. MWMike Winnet49:06

       It- it kind of blew my mind really. But yeah, a lot of people get up and leave. Um, they don't let you eat or drink in there, um, because then you get, uh, it's called dec- decision fatigue.

   14. CWChris Williamson49:16

       Yep.

   15. MWMike Winnet49:16

       So th- they make you- they make you stay for like four or five hours before you get your first break. But then after that break, the numbers have dwindled massively because most people realize this is a pitch-fest, I'm not coming back. So anybody that returns after that break, they're more likely to buy.

   16. CWChris Williamson49:29

       Mm-hmm.

   17. MWMike Winnet49:29

       And now, it ... They're higher product. So what happens is, is a ... I call it a tripwire. It's a lower value product to start with. Who takes the bait, right? If 70 people have signed up now, we could probably sell them the five rounds, um, product in the afternoon. And then the following day it could be, "Well, now we'll get the mentoring." But the following day some people think, "Shit, I spent five grand there. I'll regret it." And they've got, you know, buyer's remorse. So the next day the numbers are a lot less but ... The numbers are a lot less but they are the most qualified people and they have bought into your bullshit the most. And they're buying 20, 30 grand mentorships (...)

   18. CWChris Williamson50:00

       They're the warmest leads that you're ever gonna have in your life, hey?

   19. MWMike Winnet50:03

       Yeah, yeah. Yeah, of course. And don't get me wrong. If this product really did work, I'd be all for it. I would be saying, you know, but look at the stats. The stats show that maybe 1% of these people ... What, 1% of people are successful through these courses. But it's weird, the only people I've met that are successful through these are actually part of the organization or selling you that product. So I've not met someone that's made a million dollars through the 10X course, let's just say, through Grant Cardone's university or Cardone Capital. I'm just ... It's a- it's a random example, by the way. I'm not saying it's him.

   20. CWChris Williamson50:37

       Mm-hmm.

   21. MWMike Winnet50:37

       It's just a random example. Yet, I can show you 10, 15, 20, 10X affiliate resellers that will be telling me that Grant Cardone has changed their life and they are millionaires.

   22. CWChris Williamson50:48

       Mm-hmm.

   23. MWMike Winnet50:49

       You're selling his product. You've not made your money through the thing that he says that we are going to make our money from. You are making it, your money through selling the thing that he says we are going to make our money from. And that ... I'm yet to meet anyone 100% unbiased and independent that's gone, "Actually, yeah, no, I've- I invested in Cardone Capital, I'm a millionaire now." Not one person. I mean, if you are out there, get in touch.

   24. CWChris Williamson51:12

       Yep. Link is in the show notes below, come and email us. So moving on. Uh, this really cool, very interesting documentary blows up on YouTube. I enjoyed it, thankfully, um, and then what happened?

   25. MWMike Winnet51:25

       Uh, so, uh, oh, I only found out on Saturday. So Saturday, uh, Ian sent me a message saying there's been a copyright strike or there's a strike against our channel. And Russell Brunson from ClickFunnels, who provides the software that many of these entrepreneurs use to, obviously if you click on their advert and sell you their content, uh, put a copyright claim in. And the video has now disappeared, and it has been pulled so we are putting a counterclaim. All because we used a one-second clip of the back of Russell Brunson coming out at the 10X conference, and that's what he said was, uh, copyright infringement. We don't think it'll stand but it's not-

   26. CWChris Williamson52:05

       What was the sc- what's the specific scene? Sorry.

   27. MWMike Winnet52:08

       So at the beginning, there's a sort of, um, an intro to it. It was just showing like different events where people are dead excited, people rushing to the back of the room, people putting their hands up. So it was all like clips taken from all these different types-

   28. CWChris Williamson52:19

       Mm-hmm.

   29. MWMike Winnet52:19

       ... of events that we'd been going to.

   30. CWChris Williamson52:20

       Mm-hmm.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:09:55

   Yeah, it's mad. Uh,…

   1. CWChris Williamson1:00:00

      X, and they're redirecting them towards you.

   2. MWMike Winnet1:00:03

      Yeah, it's mad. Uh, here's one. So I had a, an interview with someone that a lot of people said was a contrapreneur. Now, I have never been to this guy's live events or live shows. So I interviewed him and let him talk, let him talk, let him talk. Now, my own gut feeling was he's not being truthful with just his body language, the way he wouldn't answer questions, the way... Politician-type answers. He wouldn't answer a direct question with a direct answer. So that would suggest he was... Anyway, in the comments, people were saying, "You should have brought this up about him. You should have brought this up. This happens at his event." It probably does, but I have not seen those things happen. And you're talking about things that have happened to you personally that I don't know. Do you see what I mean?

   3. CWChris Williamson1:00:46

      Mm-hmm.

   4. MWMike Winnet1:00:46

      Oh, you should have... If I pushed this guy too hard in the first two minutes of an interview, called him out, "You're a liar, you do this, you do that," he'd have got up and walked out. There wouldn't have been any video for you to watch on YouTube.... it would have been him sat down with me saying, "Oh, this is the guy here. I think you're a contrapreneur. I've tricked you. You've come down here. I'm going to call you out as a contrapreneur. You do lie to people, you do rip people off." He gets up and walks out. Two-minute YouTube video, everyone's going to go, "Oh, he didn't answer a single question." So it's like... It's weird, isn't it? So I'm kind of getting shit from the people that support what we're doing and then the people that don't like what we're doing as well.

   5. CWChris Williamson1:01:18

      Mm. Yeah. On bo- on both sides.

   6. MWMike Winnet1:01:21

      Yeah. It's, it's a mad... It's a... I know... When really, I'm not trying to expose people. I am letting you see how successful or unsuccessful my personal investments are in these different passive income streams. Not, "Tai Lopez is an idiot. I'm going to fly to his house and punch him in the face," which is what some people want me to do.

   7. CWChris Williamson1:01:41

      Yeah.

   8. MWMike Winnet1:01:41

      No, I'll sign up to Tai Lopez's course. I will do his affiliate marketing course. Tai Lopez says, "I make a million pounds a year." I make 500 pounds a year. I will say Tai Lopez's course is bullshit. That's it. I'm not going to get Tai Lopez in a headlock and, you know, hope-

   9. CWChris Williamson1:01:57

      Well, you are, you are from Warrington, mate, so he might be quite hard.

   10. MWMike Winnet1:02:00

       I don't care. No, I don't know. (laughs) well, I'm at the posh end of Warrington now, so...

   11. CWChris Williamson1:02:05

       Oh, okay. Oh, you've moved, you've moved up in the world now.

   12. MWMike Winnet1:02:08

       Yeah.

   13. CWChris Williamson1:02:08

       You'd have to, you'd have to fence him or something like that, wouldn't you? You'd have to offer him out in a duel.

   14. MWMike Winnet1:02:12

       Ian's from the, uh, top part of Warrington.

   15. CWChris Williamson1:02:14

       Send Ian in.

   16. MWMike Winnet1:02:15

       Yeah.

   17. CWChris Williamson1:02:15

       Send Ian in here-

   18. MWMike Winnet1:02:15

       I know, yeah.

   19. CWChris Williamson1:02:16

       ... he'll do Tai Lopez over. But yeah, I think, you know, to the people that are listening, and I'm going to guess, considering this is probably one of the first times I've seen you on another podcast or fe- featuring on something else.

   20. MWMike Winnet1:02:25

       First time in a long time, yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson1:02:27

       Wow. So, you know, there will be a lot of people listening who have seen you through that video. And I think it's really cool that you've, you've had the opportunity to kind of s- speak with this, um, big bird's eye perspective over exactly what it is that's happening, right?

   22. MWMike Winnet1:02:40

       Yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson1:02:40

       Exactly what's, what's been going on and what you're trying to achieve with this stuff. And yeah, I, I wonder, I wonder how much of the heightened emotions are due to the fact that people want to believe... So some people want to believe in what they're being told by these contrapreneurs, and you being someone that calls it out as untrue is potentially killing the dream. So that's something that they're unhappy about.

   24. MWMike Winnet1:03:02

       Yeah, yeah.

   25. CWChris Williamson1:03:02

       Then there's the other people on the other side of it who believe you so much or believe in the bull... That there... it is bullshit so much that they see you as, like, this harbinger of truth that's going to fly in and, like, pull out a AK-47 and just start, like, sniping people. There's those people as well.

   26. MWMike Winnet1:03:22

       Yeah.

   27. CWChris Williamson1:03:22

       But both of those people are incredibly, like, enraged and, and energetic about what you're doing. And I think-

   28. MWMike Winnet1:03:31

       Wow.

   29. CWChris Williamson1:03:31

       ... I think that leads to, like you say, these flurries of emails that I'm sure that you'll have been getting and stuff like that. And it is... It's bizarre as well, because obviously, if you'd said when you first did the Contrapreneur Formula, like, "Mate, you know what's going to happen? In six months time, this is going to have nearly quarter of a million views," you'd have been like, "Fucking hell, that's great." But on the other side of that, you go, "I didn't realize all the side effects that were going to come with this."

   30. MWMike Winnet1:03:57

       Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's so mad. And then some people are like, "You're just the same as them." That, that's one of the, the biggest, um, accusations I get all the time. "You're e- you're doing the same... You're a contrapreneur. You're doing the same scam as them." And I ask the same question every time, "What am I selling you?" "Well, you've got adverts on your YouTube channel." How much are you paying to watch my content? The only adverts I get on my content are the adverts by contrapreneurs because they use the same tags I tag my stuff with. Now, I am building a crowd of people that don't like that shit. You know you get paid on people clicking the ads and buying the products. I have literally got the worst type of ads on my channel.

Episode duration: 1:20:44