Skip to content
Modern WisdomModern Wisdom

The Dark Side of Fitness: “I Starved Myself Until I Fainted" - Will Tennyson (4K)

Will Tennyson is a YouTuber and an athlete. Taking a journey from fat to fit is a massive achievement in itself. Will then went on to become one of the best creators of positive fitness and mindset content on the internet and today we get to discover some of his best lessons from a decade of self-improvement. Expect to learn why Will decided to become morbidly obese for a day and what he learned, which diet allowed him to lose the most weight, his thoughts on the state of male body dysmorphia, what Will thinks of Nikocado Avocado’s insane transformation, what Will's mental health journey looks like and much more... - 00:00 Becoming Fat For a Day 04:02 Will’s Relationship With Food 08:42 Strategies for Simplifying Weight Loss 10:58 Male Body Image in Modern Society 14:30 What Will Wished He Knew When He Was Younger 19:05 The Lonely Chapter 25:09 Becoming Aware of Your Ageing 29:04 The Importance of Being More Playful 31:41 Nikocado Avocado’s Transformation 36:17 The Hardest Challenge Will Has Done 39:34 What Will’s Life is Like as a YouTuber 52:47 Will’s Thoughts on Bryan Johnson 59:00 The New World of Hybrid Training 1:02:35 Being Overwhelmed By Fitness Information 1:06:48 If Will Could Only Keep 10 Exercises 1:12:30 How Will’s Mental Health is Today 1:24:26 What’s Next for Will 1:24:50 Where to Find Will - Get expert bloodwork analysis and bypass Function’s 300,000-person waitlist at https://functionhealth.com/modernwisdom (automatically applied at checkout) Get 5 Free Travel Packs, Free Liquid Vitamin D and more from AG1 at https://drinkag1.com/modernwisdom (automatically applied at checkout) Enroll in Hillsdale College's free online courses at https://hillsdale.edu/modernwisdom (automatically applied at checkout) Get 10% discount on all Gymshark’s products at https://gym.sh/modernwisdom (use code MW10) - Get access to every episode 10 hours before YouTube by subscribing for free on Spotify - https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn or Apple Podcasts - https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Get my free Reading List of 100 life-changing books here - https://chriswillx.com/books/ Try my productivity energy drink Neutonic here - https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact/

Chris WilliamsonhostWill Tennysonguest
Oct 7, 20241h 25mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 4:02

    Becoming Fat For a Day

    1. CW

      You became fat for a day. What was that like?

    2. WT

      It was a lot more like... A trip to the past than I expected it to be, actually.

    3. CW

      Because you were fat for more than a day as well-

    4. WT

      Yeah.

    5. CW

      ... previously.

    6. WT

      I mean, I mean, obviously not to the extent that I was, but the biggest issue that I, I had growing up as a kid, and I kind of still deal with today, is just like people's perceptions of you, how you think other people see you, and feeling like you're always being watched with everything that you do. And I'm, I'm k- I've been getting better at that, you know, as, as time goes on. But when I was filming that video, I just... Even though I wasn't, that wasn't me, like, it, it scared me.

    7. CW

      Could you explain what you did?

    8. WT

      Yeah. So, I, I found this, um, company that, like, they make o- obese suits for these medical companies, for like nurses, doctors, to actually put them on and like to actually understand how to maneuver obese people, like on like a, on a bed, off a bed, you know, just to fully understand just like the transportation techniques. So I found that, and um, you know, I wanted to experience, you know, just what it was like, not even at the weight, because it wasn't an actual weighted thing, but just more like that circumference and just how hard it is to, you know, get into a car and, or just to do anything. And um, I don't know-

    9. CW

      How, how heavy was the size that you were? Like, what would it be the equivalent of?

    10. WT

      600 pounds. Yeah. So I've done a fat suit video before and it was just like the belly and I looked pregnant, but this was like I went full out, got my face done, and um, I couldn't even fit in my tr- my truck. Got an UberXL, like you walk into the gym, everyone's looking at you, either like laughing, smiling, or they just, they just don't even want to make eye contact with you. And then you just feel like you're this, this spectacle. No one, like no one's afraid to point at you, laugh, and it was very... like it, it... you, you can notice my, my emotions very much so just completely... like I, I start off joking, like I always do in my videos-

    11. CW

      Yup, yup.

    12. WT

      ... like make it lighthearted and... Lighthearted but with like n- not, nothing crazy. But then as the video goes, I start to actually like get affected by it. I didn't even notice it until I actually watched the footage back and I'm like... I really wanted to get it off. Like I felt like I was like... I wanted to like rip it off by the end 'cause it, it's very much so like... it took me back, which makes me emotional.

    13. CW

      What does that make you thi- you know, the, the fitness industry has a lot of, uh, laying at the feet of people that are overweight, "Well, you know, eat less, move more. Come on, we've got the opportunity out there, just stay out of the middle of the supermarket," et cetera. Did it give you a different perspective, empathy for people that are that size?

    14. WT

      M- definitely, because it's not as easy as just like, you know, pe- people say, "Put the fork down. Stop eating." There's a lot more shit that goes on with it. Like, one of the things that I talked about... there's a guy named Brentley who I interviewed in the video. He's 575. He was 575 pounds. He's lost 250 pounds. He's 26 years old. And he was like, "I can feel great about myself, but when I go out and see how other people look at me, that influences how I see myself."

    15. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    16. WT

      "And then I stop going out and doing the things that I love 'cause I feel like people don't want me there." And it's really hard to kind of keep a positive mindset.

    17. CW

      Yeah.

    18. WT

      And he said, it was something like, it was like really sc- like, it, it was making me almost cry, but he... I said, "When did you notice, like you... when did you kind of realize that you wanted to lose weight?" He said, "I was in my grandma's basement, and then all of a sudden I just woke up from this fog, and then I went to the mirror and I looked at myself and I started to, to panic, and I, I l- and I wanted to start grabbing all the fat off my body 'cause I was so scared of how fat I was." So I think it's just... I wanted to show people it's much deeper than just like, "Oh, you're fat. Stop eating, go to the gym." There's a lot more that's involved in the situation. And uh, that's kind of why I think I was a lot bigger for a long time, you know? It's, it's, it's very hard to just make that jump to start completely changing your lifestyle 'cause we like comfort, you know? We like our usual routine. And then the second you kinda start something new, it's scary.

    19. CW

      Yeah. What

  2. 4:02 – 8:42

    Will’s Relationship With Food

    1. CW

      was your previous relationship with food and weight?

    2. WT

      Mine's very interesting because even though I gained a lot of weight, I wasn't necessarily eating badly. Like, I'd be like the first person that you probably ever hear of, like we're at dinner, like, like we're at the house... My mom makes healthy food, chicken, rice, salad, but she'd be like, "Will, you don't need more salad, man." Like, I'd, I'd just be overeating salad, like ev- like, it'd be like... it's just ridiculous. My appetite was crazy. Um, yeah, it was just like, it was so much food. I'd get home from school. I would have like dinner, like, like, uh, like whatever the leftovers were from la- like last night's dinner, I would have that, go downstairs, play video games, come back up, have another dinner, and then, you know, a couple hours go by, I'd have a snack. Like, it was just never really ending. But then the interesting thing was, I was actually like also quite active at the same time. I was playing hockey at a high level, too.

    3. CW

      Like a good Canadian.

    4. WT

      Yeah. Everyone was just like, "This guy is like big, but he's fast and he can hit." And um, you know, I... I was... So I was, like I was... I think I was much... I was very like capable at that weight. It was like, it was like weird. But I would always get those comments, especially being like in the locker room. I was always afraid to take my shirt off, you know? Um-

    5. CW

      What... How heavy did you get?

    6. WT

      So I was at the time, high school, 5'9". I was probably the heaviest, 275? 275.

    7. CW

      Like, 17, 18 years old?

    8. WT

      Not even. 15, 16. Wow, yeah.

    9. CW

      Yeah, that's heavy.

    10. WT

      Yeah.

    11. CW

      You were a big boy.

    12. WT

      Yeah.

    13. CW

      But people look now, like you don't look like you struggle with weight or with maintaining lean muscle mass.

    14. WT

      I struggle the most with my diet. My appetite, my appetite is just like super high that I always have to find ways to like cheat the system somehow.

    15. CW

      What like?

    16. WT

      Like, I'm just always like always looking for, you know, ways to up the volume on something. Like, if I can cut cabbage into this, this bowl to make it look bigger.

    17. CW

      Right.

    18. WT

      You know, if I can get like a... I bought a Ninja Creami recently because-

    19. CW

      Yeah, that's-

    20. WT

      ... you know, the h- the halo tops or those things just doesn't do it for me. It's not big enough, you know. I have to eat like a whole bucket of it. But I think that's just the mentality.And I-

    21. CW

      Well, I'd- so, I had this, uh, really interesting conversation with Robert Plomin. So, he's one of the world's leading behavioral geneticists. So, behavioral genetics talks about how heritable traits get passed down through your genes. It's the, uh, nurture side... Uh, sorry, it's the nature side of nature/nurture. And, um, he was talking about weight, and that as people, uh... When you compare twin studies where they've been raised separately, you compare them back with their parents, and BMI is, like, 60% heritable, even when you take them outside-

    22. WT

      Wow.

    23. CW

      ... of the household. So, so much of it is driven by genetics, and people go, "Oh, genetics is bullshit," but what they think you mean when you say genetics is metabolism. Not talking about that. The way that people get fat is through so many different contributing factors. One of them is leptin/grehlin release. It sounds like your ghrelin is just, that's the, uh, hormone that makes people feel hungry, absolutely working overdrive. Other people have got, uh, mechanically bigger stomachs or stretchier stomachs that allow them to eat more. Other people get a great sense of pleasure from the stretched sensation of their stomach being full. Other people don't like exercising. Other people don't like, uh, waking up early. Some people are night owls, which means... You know, there's a million ways to get fat. And sometimes you have both big stomach and high ghrelin release, and I don't like, and that's where you get to, you know, the 500, 600, 700 pounds.

    24. WT

      Yeah.

    25. CW

      And this is, uh, you know, for the "Just work harder, nobody cares, bro," crowd, it's kind of a difficult circle to square, because most people are kind of empathetic and go, "I'm sure that if these people had the choice, they wouldn't be 600 pounds," but they are.

    26. WT

      Mm-hmm.

    27. CW

      So, do I feel pity? Do I shame them? Do I encourage them? Do I feel sorry for them? Like, what, what is it that I do? And I guess, yeah, as a, uh, rehabilitated fat kid, uh, that must like a complex situation to manage still for you.

    28. WT

      Yeah, I mean, I think I'm definitely lucky with what I do because it keeps me in line in a lot of ways. You know, like to, to do this, be on camera and like just make videos where you're tank top and stuff, like, it keeps me in check. And it, I can- it kinda makes me wonder, like, you know, if I wasn't-

    29. CW

      What would you be like if you weren't-

    30. WT

      ... what would I be like, yeah. And like, I've, I've, like, come up with, like, many different, you know, systems that work for me. Like, back when I first started YouTube, I was shredded, super shredded, and it was easily maintainable for me, but I did- I didn't eat till 5:00 PM at night. I would fast. I got so used to fasting-

  3. 8:42 – 10:58

    Strategies for Simplifying Weight Loss

    1. CW

      talk to me. Let's say that there is somebody listening who thinks, "That's me. I should be a fat kid. I'm trying to fight it off. Uh, he's trying to get out of me or she's trying to get out of me, but I don't want to." What are your best strategies for simplifying fat loss, calorie restriction, increasing compliance, making it simpler and easy?

    2. WT

      Yeah. For me, I think for a lot of people, the cravings come at nighttime.

    3. CW

      Same.

    4. WT

      Yeah. So, I've noticed, I- I've kind of coined this thing called macro fasting, where you don't necessarily have to, like, not eat at all, but fast the carbs and the fat for later into the day. So, a lot of times when I'm hungry, I'll just, I'll make egg whites or I'll have a protein shake, I'll have some Greek yogurt, and that keeps you full, not a lot of calories. So I kind of just cruise on that stuff throughout the day. And then once it hits nighttime, I'll go to watch some TV, it's like, "Holy shit, I got 250 carbs, I got like"-

    5. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    6. WT

      ... "you know, 75 fat. I'm gonna have some, some fun food, but I'm gonna still have some, like, make some good choices too." And I've noticed that when I just go to bed and I can... Or like, I notice when I watch TV and I have a snack and I'm like, "I kinda want another one," and I can, it- it helps me mentally, and then, you know, I go to bed and I feel fine. And then the next day I wake up, I have my coffee, stay caffeinated.

    7. CW

      Hmm.

    8. WT

      Yeah.

    9. CW

      So, that's not too dissimilar to carb backloading in a way.

    10. WT

      Yeah, yeah. But macro fasting just sounds-

    11. CW

      Yeah, no, I like it.

    12. WT

      Yes.

    13. CW

      That's- that's cool. Uh, what about from an exercise perspective? Uh, it seems like you've always been active.

    14. WT

      Mm-hmm.

    15. CW

      But are there other thing... Do you need to keep yourself in check? Do you need to hit a 11,000 step count? Or is that not something that you're too fussed about?

    16. WT

      I'm a step fanatic, man.

    17. CW

      Really?

    18. WT

      Yeah.

    19. CW

      Wow.

    20. WT

      I- I don't miss a day.

    21. CW

      Okay, so what's your-

    22. WT

      You gotta miss one day.

    23. CW

      ... what's your average?

    24. WT

      I usually average 12,500.

    25. CW

      Wow.

    26. WT

      Yeah.

    27. CW

      That's a lot.

    28. WT

      Minimum, minimum. But I-

    29. CW

      That's so much.

    30. WT

      Yeah. I love it though. I love walking.

  4. 10:58 – 14:30

    Male Body Image in Modern Society

    1. CW

      make of the modern world of male body image and such? You're obviously at the forefront of this-

    2. WT

      Yeah.

    3. CW

      ... at least from a YouTube perspective. There's 3 million young guys probably that follow you and-

    4. WT

      Yeah.

    5. CW

      ... a few chicks.

    6. WT

      I think it's so sad. I think that, like... It's crazy, 'cause I think that a lot of guys do it for the attention of women, but you're not gonna get the attention... You just need the tension from where you're not g- what- what you're not going for, you know what I mean? Like, it's... I... To me, I think sexy is healthy, happy, you know, going out to eat when you wanna eat, and that's kind of what I preach on my channel. I feel like I actually don't really associate myself with the fitness industry. Everyone's like, "Oh, like, what- what do you think the state is of the fitness industry?" Well, I'm like, "I think the fitness industry is split." I think there's fitness entertainment, where there's me and a select few of people who go, like, "I'm gonna tackle this, like, trending topic with a fitness twist," but then there's, like, the fitness side where it's, like, heavy duty bodybuilding, steroids, which I don't necessarily agree with that. And I think this is, like, the side that all these kids are- are going to-

    7. CW

      Hmm.

    8. WT

      ... and-... I think that just comes with time. I think once you mature and you realize that the gym isn't everything... 'Cause I- when I was younger, when I was 21, I almost went on steroids. I bought it, I had it.

    9. CW

      Hmm.

    10. WT

      And I'm just so thankful I didn't, 'cause I don't think that people really sh- people don't show, like, the negatives to it. Like, I had a lot of friends in university that would just be like, "Dude, it's amazing. Like, I take, I take Anavar and, like, it's, uh, no side effects." And I'm like, "Oh shit, this is gonna be me too." And then you, like, realize after they have, like, they get some sort of, like, cancer or, like, tumor and you're like, "Oh f-" You know. So, I think you have to realize, like, you're not just making a decision for yourself right now, but it's also for your future self.

    11. CW

      Hmm. Have you had friends that took stuff like Anavar early and had-

    12. WT

      Oh, yeah.

    13. CW

      ... bad health outcomes?

    14. WT

      Yes, yes. I have a lot of friends who went on it who were, were jacked and I would, like, admire them and now I see them and I'm like, "I don't even recognize you 'cause you're so skinny, 'cause you quit the gym because you're so depressed that you can't use it anymore."

    15. CW

      Because the gains came so easily when they were enhanced-

    16. WT

      Yeah.

    17. CW

      ... that as soon as you try and do it not enhanced, it sucks and you don't, uh...

    18. WT

      Yeah. Like, when I was, when I was 16, I'd go to the gym and there was another guy there, and I grew up with him and all of a sudden he blew up, looked great, he was obsessed with it. Then he just disappeared, and I, I didn't see him for, like, six years. Then I was at the gas station and I see this guy walk out and he's like, "Will." And I look at him. Didn't even re- I didn't even recognize him.

    19. CW

      Oh.

    20. WT

      Just, like, nothing. And he, he's just like, "I can't go back in the gym. I can't do it." He's like, 'cause you get addicted to that feeling of being on, and the second that gets taken away from you, it's not worth it anymore.

    21. CW

      Yeah. I suppose the advantage of being natty for quite a while before you do that is that you develop a love for the gym-

    22. WT

      Right.

    23. CW

      ... with heavy gravity, and then you get to lighten the load a little bit.

    24. WT

      Mm-hmm.

    25. CW

      Um, but yeah, I, I had a guy called Scott Griffithson, who is a male body dysmorphia researcher out of S- uh, Australia. He said that male body dysmorphia is on track to overtake female body dysmorphia within the next two decades. So, the trajectory of that is increasing more quickly than women. Like, just think about how mental that is to think that women, whose primary source of value to the world is their beauty and their youth, um, that's going to be overtaken by guys. Uh, yeah, I, I, I'm also, uh, concerned.

    26. WT

      Yeah.

    27. CW

      It's not good. What would you say to...

  5. 14:30 – 19:05

    What Will Wished He Knew When He Was Younger

    1. CW

      I know young dudes who maybe like you were or whatever are dissatisfied with their body and, you know, follow the CBUMs or the Israels-

    2. WT

      Yeah.

    3. CW

      ... or the Tennysons or whatever. What are some of the insights that you wish that you'd known when you were a little bit younger about where sort of confidence and self-esteem comes from? Especially if you like the idea of being a, a muscular guy?

    4. WT

      I think you just have to realize that you just, you have to do it for yourself. And that's just, that's such a thing that's, like, very difficult to understand. It's one of those things that you hear it and it sounds obvious, but it's, it's, it's really hard to put into practice. Um, I had an eating disorder when I was, when, um, when I got fat and then I lost, like, over 100 pounds.

    5. CW

      How long?

    6. WT

      Ve- very rapidly. Coupl- like, under a year. Yeah, it was, I was starving myself, like I was fainting and, and all that stuff. But the reason that it got so bad and it, like, escal- like, it got to the point that it was just, uh... Yeah, it got, um... Fuck, I don't talk about this much. Yeah, there, um... Sorry. Yeah, the, um, the reason that it got so bad was, um... I'd go to school and, uh, my friends would be like, "Yo, you look really good." Like, "I love what you're doing." Like, it's like, it's like it's a, it's great. Not like, "Dude," like, "are you okay?" And like... It was like, I was losing it so fast and I got addicted to, like, seeing that scale drop, and it started, it started, like... My weight loss journey, like, started healthy. My mom was, like, putting me through all, like, the right things, like, you know, like, watching what I was doing. And I was, like, really happy with what I was doing, and then I started trying to prove it to other people. I wasn't doing it for myself anymore, so I lost sight of my journey doing it, and I just wish I could kinda go back and be like, "Stay locked in. Remember why you're doing it. Don't think about, you know, what other people are saying because they don't really know what you're going through." And, um, that's a huge one that I would, um, recommend to people.

    7. CW

      I'm sorry you went through that.

    8. WT

      Thank you. Yeah. It's, it's hard to talk about. And it's, I feel like I've gotten over it, but it always brings emotion out of me.

    9. CW

      Hmm.

    10. WT

      Yeah.

    11. CW

      Well, you know, if you're sad or sorry for that previous version of you that had to go through it, why wouldn't you be?

    12. WT

      Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of the things I do now are, are for that version of myself. If someone says to me, like, "What is the reason you do what you do?" It's for kids like me. Where... 'Cause like, for me, like, my, like, escape was YouTube when I was younger. I didn't have a lot of friends, but s- but I, when I, when I came home I'd watch, like, the, you know, the Guzmans, like MaxToon-ing, those guys, and I would, I would kind of, like, be able to escape from, like, shit that was going on in my mind and just kind of, like, lock in for 18 minutes, smile, laugh. So, that's kind of, like, what my goal is with my channel, which is also why it's so lighthearted and like, so, like, you know, jokes. I want you to kinda learn, but I want you to laugh. And I think there's a lot of pressure that I put on myself starting all this being like, every video that I make has to have, you know, this huge impact on someone's life. But I feel like people put too much pressure on themselves for that, 'cause I think a laugh is a huge thing. If you can provide somebody with a laugh and you don't know what they're going through, that's a win for me.

    13. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    14. WT

      And I get so many comments like that. And for me, that's my driving force right now.

    15. CW

      That's cool.

    16. WT

      Yeah.

    17. CW

      I mean, you know, the best thing, I think-... that you can do is make content for the version of you that was 10 or 20 years ago.

    18. WT

      Yeah.

    19. CW

      You know, that's very much what I've done with this channel. It's the podcast that I wanted that didn't exist. Uh, answering questions that I still largely need answers to, but I definitely wanted answers to 15 years ago.

    20. WT

      Mm-hmm.

    21. CW

      And, uh, that's a good point that, does everything need to have this peak, awe-inspiring, philosophical takeaway that, you know, pierces your reality and breaks open your fracturing understanding of the way that the wo-? No. Like, you can just have 18 minutes where you're not thinking about your boss that's a dick or the stress that you've got with your relationship or whatever. Um, you know, people talk about the bad sides of escapism on the internet, and certainly for a lot of people, that is a problem. If you're compulsively checking TikTok for eight hours a day, that's probably too much. But if you've kind of got a bit of a shitty life or you feel like nobody really understands you... So I have this idea you may have heard me talk about before called the lonely chapter?

    22. WT

      No.

    23. CW

      Okay, so I think this will resonate.

  6. 19:05 – 25:09

    The Lonely Chapter

    1. CW

      Um, the lonely chapter is a period in everybody's life where they start to do personal development or change or go to the gym, and they begin to become so different that they no longer resonate or can relate to their old set of friends, but they're not yet sufficiently developed or different that they've built their new set of friends, and they kind of get stuck in this middle section, this lonely chapter. And you're so different you can't resonate. You're not yet different that you've developed a new one, and it's like, you know, in the movies, the Rocky montage is 90 seconds, but in your life, it can be five years. And you have no guarantee of glory, you have no understanding of whether or not it's even going to work. You're doing this thing, watching these videos on the internet, going to the gym, trying to dial in your diet, try this prot-... Is it isolate or is it, is it concentrate or is it, is it pea protein or... Do I have the maltodextrin or am, do I have the dextrose and do I, am I supposed to do, like, push-pull legs or am I supposed to do German volume training? You're doing all of these things and you're meditating or you're journaling or you're, you're watching these podcasts and you have no idea if it's even going to fucking work. And it's, you know, from the outside, especially in retrospect, this is the thing that gets missed with most people's origin stories. That in retrospect, it sounds like a unwavering belief that you were always gonna make it. But at the time, what it feels like is just chronic uncertainty and this desperate desire to change, but you, you don't even have the glory of knowing that it's going to be v- you're going to be vi- victorious on the other side of it.

    2. WT

      Right.

    3. CW

      You end up in this bizarre... It's very mundane. It's very sort of self-deceptive, it's, like, narcissistic, but in a sad way. You know, you're always thinking about you and about whether or not it's going to work, and then you don't have the people, and all of your friends are going, "Well, this isn't going to work this time." Or maybe the s- the, the people that you're trying to be friends with don't even know who you are yet and you're in this place, you're in this town in fucking bum fuck nowhere. And yeah, that lonely chapter, I think, is for so many people, especially the sorts of people that watch your channel or listen to podcasts like this one, it's a refuge for people in their lonely chapter. It's, "Oh, someone else thinks like me."

    4. WT

      Yeah.

    5. CW

      And they don't think like me in the northwest of England or in the northern parts of fucking Canada or Alberta, wherever it is that they live, and they find somebody on the internet that makes them feel less alone, and they go, "Okay, this hopefully gives me proof." But that's the bit that gets missed. The bit that gets missed in most people's origin or come up stories or development stories or the hard pivot or whatever, is the amount of uncertainty that you're just wallow in. You're just, like, drowning in, in a lack of belief that this is even gonna work. And, uh, yeah, I think that lonely chapter is, like, an important concept that more people should know.

    6. WT

      I can definitely resonate with that. I always tell people, like, I- I've said it many times on my channel, like, for those people, just because you're not happy with where you are doesn't mean that you can't change. 'Cause when I was going through that chapter, you know, you don't see it as a chapter and you just see, like, that is it.

    7. CW

      Life.

    8. WT

      You're like, "High school is where I'm peaking. High school is the most important thing in the world." And like, it can't get better than, like, it can't get better. But just you gotta let life go on, and as you get older, you get wiser. And I think for me, a lot of, a lot of the, um, improvements that I've made personally have been through YouTube, but just also just, like, growing up and just realizing, like, around you that nobody cares.

    9. CW

      Mmm.

    10. WT

      And that's, like, the biggest thing for me, that nobody really cares.

    11. CW

      I partnered with Function Health because I wanted a better way to track what's happening inside of my body. They run over 100 lab tests each year, covering heart, hormones, nutrients, thyroid, and even detecting 50 types of cancer at stage one. That's five times more testing than a regular physical, and all results are charted over your lifetime and explained in one simple dashboard. Lab testing like this would usually cost thousands, but with Function, it's only $500. You get a streamlined, evidence-based system that tracks your health trends over time and gives you real data to optimize your lifestyle. I rely on Function because it's evidence-based and run by a team of expert physicians so that you can trust that the data and insights you receive are scientifically sound and unbiased. Plus, Dr. Andrew Huberman is the scientific advisor and Dr. Mark Hyman is the chief medical officer. Function has a wait list of over 300,000 people, but every Monday they, open a few spots for Modern Wisdom listeners. So right now, if you go to the link in the description below or head to functionhealth.com/modernwisdom, you can bypass that wait list today. That's functionhealth.com/modernwisdom. You mentioned before that you had this ambient sense of surveillance or that people are watching you.

    12. WT

      Mm-hmm.

    13. CW

      What would you say to people who feel socially anxious or awkward or like they are being, uh, surveilled by everyone else?

    14. WT

      You're not. Y- you're really not. Like, the amount of times that... It's- it's kind of like in the, in the- the obese video...... I was talking to another guy, and he was also fat, and he said the first time he went to the gym, he felt like everyone was looking at him. But that's just an internal thing that you think so that's, that's your own battle. But you just have to realize that like, you're just like everyone else. Like, like, back in school, I was the one kid who I would get a note for not doing presentations because I would not go up in front of the class. I was terrified, so I would always make videos, and that's how I fell in love with YouTube, 'cause all of my projects, I would make a video for it. But no one... Like, it, to me, like, it was almost the same thing, like just being on a video versus being in person, the more that I think about it, it's, it's just, it's still you. It's only you. Everyone's watching you. And when you look around the room, like when I'm watch, like when I think about it now, I, I look back a lot now, with like, you know, hindsight, you look around, no one's laughing.

    15. CW

      How old are you now?

    16. WT

      I'm 30, I just turned 30. Yeah.

    17. CW

      Happy birthday.

    18. WT

      Thank you, yeah. Which is a weird one.

    19. CW

      It's my strategist over there, the one with the unnecessary pair of glasses on inside-

    20. WT

      Yeah.

    21. CW

      ... it's his 30th birthday today. Happy Birthday to you.

    22. WT

      Yeah. I've actually had a hard

  7. 25:09 – 29:04

    Becoming Aware of Your Ageing

    1. WT

      time with that one, to be honest.

    2. CW

      Why?

    3. WT

      Um, this might get kind of dark, but um, I've always been somebody, like especially in my 20s where your birthdays kind of just mesh together, and um, I've also never been one to think about death, ever. But as I turned 30, I started to think about it a lot, like I've also like obs- I've like been like obsessing with it. And um, not sure why. And um, I kind of see things completely differently now, like I think when in my 20s I kind of just saw like, I'm, this is my life and if I walk down the street and I see an 80-year-old, that's just someone in my life, and that's just who they are, they're just an object in my life and I'm never gonna be that. But the second I turned 30, I'm like, "Holy shit. I'm gonna be that one day." So like I, I'm kind of like finally, as weirdly as it sounds, like seeing the fact that I'm aging, and it's um, it's made me kind of like, you know, reflect a, a lot.

    4. CW

      I've thought about that a lot recently. I've had this conversation a couple of times but... As a guy, basically until you're probably about, I think it was about 32, 33 for me, uh, you're just not aware of mortality. You're not aware that you're aging. And then, probably 34 was the first time I was like, "Oh, I've got like a couple of gray hairs on my beard. Oh." And workouts actually take a bit longer to recover from.

    5. WT

      Yeah.

    6. CW

      And if I have a late night, even if I'm not drinking, that kind of hits me the next day like a mild hangover. Like what? I used to be made of rubber and magic. What is this? This is weird. And it's a conversation that I'm really keen to have more about what it means to age gracefully as a man because everybody talks about it for women, and rightly so. Again, their primary source of value to the world in many ways is their beauty and their youth, uh, but I think we have quite a well-established conversation about that for women. But for guys, what does it mean to know that you're never going to be as lean as you were before or as muscular as you were before? And because dudes aren't supposed to take their sense of self-worth from the way that they look, what does it matter if you've got wrinkles, you know, that's a sign of being a man. Skin care is for pussies, like just fucking, you know, take the sun in the face with no UV protection. Uh, but especially given that young guys are having more body dysmorphia problems and that everybody is, whether it's, uh, Zoom face or just the ubiquity of social media or even just photos, the fact that everybody's taking more photos of themselves and what's going on, everyone is able to scrutinize their condition and their age much more. Um, so yeah, I think it's a weird... Did you have, 'cause I had this, shame around being bothered about the fact that you were noticing that you were getting older? Like you shouldn't, that this isn't a masculine, uh, embodiment in order for you to think about this?

    7. WT

      No.

    8. CW

      Right.

    9. WT

      (clears throat) I'd say I'm quite-

    10. CW

      Just me.

    11. WT

      ... I'm an open book with my emotions. I would say like I'm... I think one of the main reasons why a lot of people enjoy watching my content is because I'm so okay with making a fool of myself, I'm so okay with not being the best, and I'm just a great person to just be like, "Okay, like I'm just gonna go and, and learn, and just like be a fly on the wall and just watch you do your thing." Like I was just shooting a video yesterday and we were doing this like mobility test and I know that I was probably the worst person that he's ever seen.

    12. CW

      (laughs)

    13. WT

      And me, and me, and me being in the fitness space, I'm, I'm like, I'm okay with it because it's just like, it's not that serious.

    14. CW

      Yeah.

    15. WT

      And I think just like men take themselves so seriously they're not allowed to feel, and I just, I just, I just don't understand. Like for me, I think like showing your emotion is sexy, you know?

    16. CW

      Being playful is definitely a really good, uh, pressure release valve, I think. Uh, so Charlie Hooper, that does Charisma

  8. 29:04 – 31:41

    The Importance of Being More Playful

    1. CW

      on Command, teaches people how to be more confident, charismatic, especially in communication, uh, he taught me this thing, it's probably three years ago now, and he taught me about how people don't always want the right answer to a question that they ask you. So for instance, uh, somebody asks you, um, "What did you do for a living?" And you make up some really elaborate, uh, ruse, and you take them on this, "You know, I used to work as a vet but then I saved this one particular dog that I had to take back to Jamaica and I just decided I was gonna sell loosy cigarettes on the beach for... Actually no, that's a lie, like I work in finance." Um, I know that that's such a lame joke, but so few people are prepared to not answer a question trying to get it as right as possible. I think this is drilled into us partly from school, and then also from wanting to be seen as serious thinkers, as somebody who's sophisticated and has insight and you know, can be efficient and, uh, on the ball. Uh, but so many of my friends, that I love being around the most, give me the most wrong answers. So they regularly, regularly will make a joke about something and I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, I... Fucking all right, but what really? Thank you about that." But their first go-to is not necessarily the right thing, and I think that kind of in YouTube the same thing, if somebody takes themselves too seriously or, even around work, like people know this. If there's an opportunity for you to lighten the load a little bit...I think it's good for everybody else and a service to them and a service to yourself-

    2. WT

      Mm-hmm.

    3. CW

      ... to kind of just be a little bit lighter. So I have written, you know, this is a big thing I'm working on in the show at the moment, trying to add a little bit more sort of playfulness, which I think is, like, the best term-

    4. WT

      Yeah.

    5. CW

      ... like, being playful with it. Um, and I've got written on a Post-It note, just above where the camera sits, "Play." I've got that just to remind me, you know, you can make this conversation a, a serious academic topic or whatever. Try and find the element of play in it. Um, and we realize that play is something that you're supposed to do with sports or with pickleball or, you know, whate- whatever, dance or whatever it is that you're doing. We don't think about it in day-to-day communication so much.

    6. WT

      Yeah.

    7. CW

      So yeah, I think that injecting more play into serious or un-serious topics is a, a pretty good way to go about it.

    8. WT

      I just think that when you get older, you feel like you can't. And I was just walking with my wife and, um, I saw this little kid and he was just running on the field screaming and I was just like, "Oh, I wish I could do that." And she's like, "Then why don't you?" And I'm kind of just like, "Oh yeah, why, why can't I?"

    9. CW

      Absolutely called out by your wife there.

    10. WT

      Yeah, yeah. Like, why, like, why not? And I feel like you get a certain age, and I think that's what's wrong with this world.

    11. CW

      Did you then run toward the child screaming? 'Cause that's the sort of thing-

    12. WT

      Unfortunately, no.

    13. CW

      ... that'll get you-

    14. WT

      Yeah, I know, yeah.

    15. CW

      ... arrested.

    16. WT

      Yeah.

    17. CW

      Yeah.

  9. 31:41 – 36:17

    Nikocado Avocado’s Transformation

    1. CW

      Have you seen Nikocado Avocado's recent re-transformation?

    2. WT

      I have, I have.

    3. CW

      Give me your thoughts on that.

    4. WT

      That's insane. And it's, I- I'm just like, what, what was going on? Like, 'cause they said he posted a video seven months before that one. So how much was he shooting in advance? Like, what was like, like was he doing it the right way? Did he get liposuction? It looks like he has no loose skin.

    5. CW

      At least around the face.

    6. WT

      Yeah. I mean, even when you see him, like, kind of with the, the T-shirt on, the T-shirt's quite snug and it's like you don't see any, um, loose skin. So it's, it's pretty crazy. I'm almost, like, at a loss of words 'cause you don't really know. Like, I'd love to know, like, did he do it, did he work out? Like, it would be really cool.

    7. CW

      For people that don't know what we're talking about, Nikocado Avocado was a mukbang eating video on YouTube influencer who got... How heavy do you think he got?

    8. WT

      I think it was 411 pounds.

    9. CW

      Right, okay.

    10. WT

      Yeah.

    11. CW

      Four- 400 pounds, uh, not that high, uh, uh, not that tall of a, uh, height. And, uh, then released a video the other day, the most Luke-I-am-your-father, (gasps) semi-sociopathic, like-

    12. WT

      Semi, semi? So-

    13. CW

      ... staring down, like, saying that it was, "You have all been part of the biggest social experiment in history." Th- the just so, I mean, like, one of the best YouTube videos I've seen in a long time.

    14. WT

      Yeah.

    15. CW

      Like, awesome, like, really, oh, this isn't MrBeast dropping a Lamborghini into a car crusher that's kind of unique or whatever. This is outright insane.

    16. WT

      He has, like, 40 million views too.

    17. CW

      Yeah. And, uh, no one knows really how it's happened. I mean, I-

    18. WT

      I wish he would share that. I think that'd be super cool.

    19. CW

      I think he m- he has to how. He can't just leave that loop open, surely.

    20. WT

      I mean, based off what we saw, I think he might. He just seems like that type of guy who just likes the mystery of it all.

    21. CW

      How hard would you have to work to get from 411 pounds down to 160-

    22. WT

      60-

    23. CW

      ... 170, something like that?

    24. WT

      That would be life-consuming. Like, you'd have to change every aspect of your life. Like, it would be, like, 'cause I feel like 411 pounds, like, not many people can do that. 'Cause I can, like, I think for a lot of people, like, people don't really realize how hard it is to get that fat. Like, we get to, like, a lot of people get to 250 and you, you're, you're stuffing your face, but then you just, you can't possibly maintain the increase.

    25. CW

      Mm, mm.

    26. WT

      So I think to get to that level of, like, fat, like, like, you are doing some, like, serious shit, man. Like, it's like you're, you're like having IV of fricking, like, chee- like, cheese in your, like, while you sleep. Like, like so everything that he does has to, has to be completely changed. So I, I can't even imagine how hard that would be.

    27. CW

      Yeah, you've lost a person. You've lost a person and a bit-

    28. WT

      Yeah.

    29. CW

      ... off you.

    30. WT

      Yeah. Couple people, I would say.

  10. 36:17 – 39:34

    The Hardest Challenge Will Has Done

    1. CW

      videos, what's the hardest challenge that you've done?

    2. WT

      Oh, I did one recently. I went to Denver. I got ya-

    3. CW

      Just going to Denver was hard? (laughs)

    4. WT

      (laughs) Yeah, but, uh, man, um, I went to the, the, um, North America's highest gym.

    5. CW

      Okay.

    6. WT

      And, uh, it was in Alma, like, an hour and a half out of Colorado, and, um... Or Denver, I don't know. What's there? Yeah. But, um, I did this challenge where I would ha- I had 10 challenges and they get progressively harder, and then at the altitude. It was also my first video so I landed and we went, and, uh, I had to do like... I, like, maxed out on squats, then I maxed out on overhead press, maxed out on bench, did like, um, all this cardio and by the end, I was on this thing called the Jacob's Ladder-

    7. CW

      Yep.

    8. WT

      ... for like the, uh, for the 10th challenge, and I'm on it and this is the first time ever where I thought my body was like shutting... My body was shutting down on me and I couldn't control it. And I was like, I was going... And then I'm, I'm pretty sure, like a lot of it I kind of don't remember, to be honest, because I- I kinda, I blacked out. I- Like, I blacked out and I kinda came back up 'cause I wanted to finish it so bad.

    9. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    10. WT

      And then once the, once that was done I- I- I almost couldn't walk and I just started profusely crying once the vi- once it was done and I couldn't control, like, my emotion. I just started crying. And the guy was like, "Holy... Like, are you okay?" And I'm like, "I don't know." Like I- I just, like I was, like, "I don't know if I'm okay." Like I just... It felt like such a traumatic experience for some reason and it took me, like, a long time, like, couple of weeks to actually feel okay again.

    11. CW

      Wow.

    12. WT

      And then a lot of the comments are like, "Dude," like, "that was fucking dangerous, dude." Like, like 'cause I- I got like my, um, bl- uh, blood oxygen-

    13. CW

      Yep.

    14. WT

      ... level test and it was, like, 80.

    15. CW

      Not good.

    16. WT

      Not good, yeah. I didn't really know at the time, so I was like, "Okay, whatever," like, "I'm making a video," like, "it's gonna be cool."

    17. CW

      Yep.

    18. WT

      The worse it is, the better, kind of, like that's my-

    19. CW

      Yeah.

    20. WT

      ... thing. And then everyone was like, "Dude," like, "that's really dumb. You could have had a heart attack."

    21. CW

      How high is it, do you know?

    22. WT

      Um, 10,361 feet.

    23. CW

      That's really high.

    24. WT

      Yeah. Yeah. So, like, I got home-

    25. CW

      It's a gym on a mountain.

    26. WT

      Yeah. Yeah. My, uh, my wife yelled at me. "What if we want to have kids and you go do these stupid videos and all that?"

    27. CW

      (laughs)

    28. WT

      "You won't be here." I'm like, "I'm not doing it again, don't worry." Yeah.

    29. CW

      We'll get back to talking to Will in one minute, but first, I need to tell you about AG1. Over the span of about a year, I tried pretty much every green strength that I could find, trying to work out which one was best and I came across AG1 and have stuck with it for over three years because it is the most comprehensive, highly tested and rigorously formulated on the market. AG1's formulation is built to improve your health, not just when you take it for a week, but when you take this every single day for years and that is why I've stuck with it. Since 2010, they've improved their formula 52 times in the pursuit of making the best foundational nutrition supplement possible through high-quality ingredients and rigorous standards. There's a 90-day money back guarantee, so you can buy it completely risk free, use it every single day for three months and if you do not like it, they'll just give you your money back. So, if you want to replace your multivitamin and more, start with AG1. Right now, you can get a year's free supply of vitamin D3 and K2 plus five free AG1 travel packs and that 90-day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to DrinkAG1.com/modernwisdom. That's DrinkAG1.com/modernwisdom. What's it like... What's life

  11. 39:34 – 52:47

    What Will’s Life is Like as a YouTuber

    1. CW

      like sort of stringing all of these challenges together? You're gaining 20 pounds in a week, waking up at 4:00 AM to do Mark Wahlberg's morning routine, just eating protein bars for a day. Is that not a high personal price to pay?

    2. WT

      Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a blessing and a curse. I would say I think it's like a blessing like sometimes I... Al- almost every video or every video that I shoot, I always have a moment where I kinda stop and I'm like, "I'm doing this for a living right now." It's so, it's so fun and so cool. But then I'm a person who, I thrive on routine and schedule and, um, I take, I take my lifting quite seriously. So when I go away for traveling and I- I can't do it or, like, I'm doing someone else's routine, it- it- it throws me off. So it's- it's, uh, it's very difficult to, like, kinda stay on track with all that stuff. And again, it kind of like... Similar to me being fat, where would I be if I didn't do this?

    3. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    4. WT

      I'm kinda like, "Where would I be physically, like in terms of the gym, if I wasn't doing this?" 'Cause I take it, I take this stuff pretty seriously in terms of, like, the lengths that I'm willing to go to make a video. Like travel, do a lot of stuff. I post very consistently, and, uh, I- I put, I very much put that first before myself, which is probably not the best thing to admit.

    5. CW

      I don't know. I... You know, we did the same thing. There was a period just before COVID started and then straight in, I kind of had the inclination before COVID and then when COVID began. Uh, you know, I still remember the message. I- I should print it off and, uh, put it on a wall.

    6. WT

      Precisely.

    7. CW

      I sent this message to my editor, Dean, who was... It was only me and him for 500 episodes, and then it was me, him and a Mormon assistant for like 650 episodes, and then finally we actually got a team. Uh, but I remember I messaged him and I was like, "I wanna turn pro with the show. I wanna stop messing about. I wanna dedicate everything that I have to becoming as good as possible." This means learning YouTube, learning thumbnails, getting a speech coach, getting a comedy coach, getting an improv coach, working on my diction, working on my questioning, getting better guests, uh, getting better advertisers, working on all of the stuff. Everything. I want to dedicate everything I've got and then, you know, a pandemic shutting down the world isn't great for many things, but it's good to focus your attention and stop distractions. So I know what you mean that you put it ahead of other stuff and it might not be... I don't know. I think it's a good thing to admit in that you're dedicating yourself to a pursuit.

    8. WT

      Yeah.

    9. CW

      Um, and it's-

    10. WT

      I think there's a fine line. Like for me, I had this r- I had this s- like I, when I s-

    11. CW

      Dedicational compulsion.

    12. WT

      Yeah. I mean, I- I started my channel with my dog, Ollie. Like he was like this little, little fellow and he was, like, very much so a character. All... I would do intros with him and stuff and, um, he's the o- he's like... I've only ever remembered life with him. He was 16, so he passed away or like... Yeah, he passed away but like w- I was at the house and my dad was like, "We have to put him down." Like 'cause it was just getting like so bad. I fainted. Like I, like I've never fainted. I'm not one who f- to faint. I fainted in the kitchen and I was like so devastated. The next day I shot a video. I just... I had to like... I swallowed it and I went and I shot because I was like, "I have this on my schedule and I'm gonna shoot a video." And I like, I put it down and then once that was done I just-... like, bursted out crying. But then the thing is, I just, I kept on putting it down, but then I never dealt with it. So like, I, I, then you deal with it, like, years later. So I dealt with it this year.

    13. CW

      How was that when it finally came back around?

    14. WT

      Horrible. Like, so like, and then it makes me kind of upset. I'm like, "Yo, like this is like, this, this animal that was like my..." Like I, my brother was such a huge part of my life and I just like didn't take a time to like, like appreciate that aspect of my life to go shoot a video that's just like for a week of my channel. You know, it's not like anything significant and I couldn't even do that. So it made, it really made me reflect and it's kind of given me a better relationship now with how I approach things.

    15. CW

      How so?

    16. WT

      I will never, you know, put YouTube be- in front of myself anymore, in terms of like how I feel mentally.

    17. CW

      Yeah.

    18. WT

      Or anything like that. Um, a huge part of that's because of my wife. Like, she's very much so like very, she's like a hippie. Spiritual, meditation. She's like, "Yo, just like chill."

    19. CW

      She has like a good, uh, counter-balance for you.

    20. WT

      Yeah, yeah. She's very not, like she's not really into like the social media stuff, so she very much like grounds me and she's like, "You're like, you have to like-"

    21. CW

      Touch some fucking grass.

    22. WT

      Yeah. Take care of yourself and, you know, when, if you do that, like if you pull back a bit, you're actually making progress. You're going, you're going forward. And like I never really saw it like that, because I think in social media specifically, we see like, you know, when you're not posting, you're failing. You know? And the more that you post, the more views that you get, you think everybody loves you. And then the second you kind of go away, it's like, you're like, you kind of get a bit-

    23. CW

      It runs again.

    24. WT

      You get a little bit worried.

    25. CW

      Yep.

    26. WT

      And then I kind of tried like going, like I used to do two videos a week and I was like, "Okay, I'm not gonna do this week, I'm just gonna do one video a week." So I, I used to post Thursday and Sunday. I stopped, I didn't post a video on Thursday and I just sat there and it hit 10:00 AM and I'm like, "Okay. It's, it's okay." You know, there was like, nothing happened. You know, so it's kind of just like, again, it's like learning. Like you're, you're just like, you're, you're maturing in this space.

    27. CW

      Deconditioning

    28. NA

      itself.

    29. WT

      You know? Yeah. So it's just like realizing that it's like, it's not the end of the world. Like, you have a life outside of this and, and just, you know, make it work around, around you.

    30. CW

      Tim Ferriss talks about, uh, decentralizing your identity. So, uh, the worst times or some of the worst times of his life were when all of his sense of self-worth was taken from Tim Ferriss the podcaster, or Tim Ferriss the author, or Tim Ferriss the whatever. And now he wants to be Tim Ferriss the friend, and Tim Ferriss the Brazilian jujitsu practitioner, and Tim Ferriss the wood whittler or whatever it is that he's doing. And he's, yeah, talks about decentralizing your identity. I think that's really cool, that you don't put all of your sense of self-worth into this one thing. Because on one side, that's where obsession comes from, which gives you an awful lot of success. But on the other side, it makes you kind of fragile in a way. It would be like having your entire net worth just invested into one stock. And I'm not convinced that that... You're just gonna get ragged around by the market. "Oh, we're up 10% today. Oh my God, we're down 20% today."

  12. 52:47 – 59:00

    Will’s Thoughts on Bryan Johnson

    1. CW

      another video you did, you were one of the first people to break Bryan Johnson into the mainstream.

    2. WT

      Yeah.

    3. CW

      What do you make of that arc? Do you feel responsible for him being everywhere now?

    4. WT

      Oh, man. I don't know about that 'cause I feel like he's just a very interesting guy in general. He has his, like, quirks that he's bound to be, he's bound to be out there. But that was such a cool experience. I don't know. Have you ever met him?

    5. CW

      I have.

    6. WT

      You have met him.

    7. CW

      Yes.

    8. WT

      Yeah. He, he was such a great guy. And I was kind of like... A lot of people, I, I just don't know what to expect when you go into situations like this. But he was just, he was equally, like, crazy, but just also, like, just normal. Like, you would just, like... A- like, when the camera's off, you just, you just, like, talk to him. He didn't... Like, I thought he was gonna be, like, some, like, "Could I even, like, communicate with you?"

    9. CW

      Mad scientist.

    10. WT

      Mad scientist, yeah. But just such a, a good dude. Seemed so happy. Like, the team that he was, he was with just seemed so great. But that day was just, like, insane.

    11. CW

      What was it like?

    12. WT

      It was just, like, it was crazy 'cause, like, it was so, like, we couldn't talk to him leading up to it. We had to talk to his assistant.

    13. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    14. WT

      And, um, it was like, "Okay, you have to be here exactly at this time." Like, "We cannot be a second late 'cause he has to be gone at 11:00." It's like, we don't, you don't have much time. There's no reshoots. So, like, we gotta go and do this. This is all on live. So we, we barely cut it. And, uh, we go sh- we show up. We open the door, the video starts. And I'm like, "Oh, okay." So, like, I actually, in the video, I'm, like, quite... I'm, like, kind of, like, frazzled because I wasn't expecting it-

    15. CW

      Hm.

    16. WT

      ... 'cause usually we kind of talk a bit, but-

    17. CW

      Yeah.

    18. WT

      ... it was just like, "Let's go. Let's get into it." It was, like, nonstop. Genuinely went through his morning routine, and that took us a couple hours with not even a second of break. It was like, "We're gonna take these 60 pills. We're gonna put this on your head. We're gonna measure this. Oh, like, the, the sun UVs this, I can't go outside." Like, it's just crazy. I, I caught my water at noon. He stops drinking-

    19. CW

      To, uh, enhance his sleep?

    20. WT

      Yeah.

    21. CW

      Wow.

    22. WT

      And-

    23. CW

      So he must consume an awful lot of water in the morning-

    24. WT

      Yeah, yeah.

    25. CW

      ... in order to be able to get sufficient water across the day.

    26. WT

      Yeah, and it, it, that opened my eyes to, like, I began starting to take sleep way more seriously 'cause he said in the video, he's like, "Sleep is one thing in your life that should be non-negotiable."... and I never really kind of got it. And he's like, "You have to go to bed at the same time every night, wake up same time." For me, I'm religious, 10:00 PM bed, 8:00 AM wake up.

    27. CW

      In other news, this episode is brought to you by Hillsdale College. In a world where truth and knowledge feel harder to find, Hillsdale College stands apart. They believe education should be about more than just a degree, it's about understanding what truly matters: liberty, character, and the pursuit of truth. Hillsdale offers over 40 free online courses to help you learn the timeless ideas that have shaped our world, so you can think critically and live freely. Whether you're diving into history, politics or philosophy, Hillsdale's courses are designed to give you the tools to think for yourself. If you need a place to start, you can check out their Introduction to Aristotle's Ethics. You'll learn Aristotle's teachings about human nature, the meaning of the good life, and the virtues necessary for happiness. If you want to learn more, head to the link in the description below or go to hillsdale.edu/modernwisdom to enroll. There is no cost, and it is easy to get started. That's hillsdale.edu/modernwisdom. It seems like sleep consistency is m- m- arguably maybe as important as sleep duration. It's getting, it's pretty close.

    28. WT

      Absolutely.

    29. CW

      Y- duration and consistency would be-

    30. WT

      Yeah.

  13. 59:00 – 1:02:35

    The New World of Hybrid Training

    1. CW

      that we've seen is this sort of ascendancy of hybrid training online, which as far as I can tell means lifting weights and running, I think?

    2. WT

      Yep.

    3. CW

      What do you make of this sort of new world of...

    4. WT

      I was thinking about that a lot. I didn't really understand, like, there's so many people who I know that I'd be like, "Yo, there's no way I can see them running," and all of a sudden they're running. And, uh, I think it comes down to, like, a lot of us have, have been lifting for so long that to get progress is so hard to come by that we need another outlet to gain progress. And when you start running for the first time, like, your, your, your time's gonna start increasing, like, you're getting those new-

    5. CW

      Because you sucked so bad at the beginning.

    6. WT

      Yeah. So, like, you're getting those noob gains again. And I just think that people are falling in love with that process to see, like, the actual progression. And then people are actually liking running better than the gym because the gym is just so... Once you get to a certain point it's like you're scraping for a few pounds, versus weekly you're, you're beating your time by a minute.

    7. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    8. WT

      So, I don't know e- I don't know if this is gonna be something that lasts very long or it's... I don't know, what do you think?

    9. CW

      I wonder, I honestly wonder how much of it is downstream from Nick, there. I just-

    10. WT

      It's real.

    11. CW

      I, I, there is an entire generation of young guys on the internet who just see this jacked as fuck guy waking up before the sun rises, sprinting around a track, and goes, "Okay, I want to look like him, so I'll do what he does." Everybody wants to, everyone wants a bodybuilder physique. There's just a lot of questions about how you get it. But the difference is that Nick had that physique before he started running.

    12. WT

      He was huge. He's actually, like, significantly downsized.

    13. CW

      Has he really?

    14. WT

      Yeah.

    15. CW

      He still looks like a big boy to be going around a running track.

    16. WT

      Oh, he's a big boy. I mean, like, he us- like, I... He used to be like 230, now he's like 195.

    17. CW

      But he still peeled out of his-

    18. WT

      Peeled, peeled, yeah.

    19. CW

      Uh, so yeah, I, I don't know, uh, you know, HYROX. I got in trouble for calling HYROX professional burpee broad jumps, uh, a couple of weeks ago. Have you done one of those?

    20. WT

      No. I've heard a lot about it, though.

    21. CW

      Yeah. I mean, it's, it seems to me that CrossFit really dropped the ball.And, you know, they had it. They had-

    22. WT

      Mm-hmm.

    23. CW

      ... the methodology, they had the gyms, they had the brand, they had the dudes with their tops off and the chicks in booty shorts. They had, they had it. And then just the most spectacular public face-planting of a brand, culminating in somebody dying at the games, I'd... What a nail in the coffin-

    24. WT

      Oh, yeah.

    25. CW

      ... of that.

    26. WT

      That was terrible.

    27. CW

      I think. Uh, literally. And, yeah, I, I think HYROX has filled in the hole that CrossFit was for a lot of us. So I got this idea of the menopause or the, the training menopause, which a lot of dudes go through.

    28. WT

      Yeah.

    29. CW

      They get to 28, 29, 30, they're tired going up a set of stairs, they can't touch their toes, their flexibility is not so good. They're like, "Ah, my elbow." You know, "I've been putting it off for five years, but any time I go ne- I look at the W-bar on an EZ-Curl machine and I think, 'Ew.'" Um, so they find a new training modality which is maybe a little bit more holistic, community-oriented. Uh, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, Thai boxing, yoga, Muay Thai, uh, HYROX, running, run clubs, whatever. And, uh, that, I think, is pretty reliable. The only difference is that we had CrossFit for maybe 10 years ago. So, like, my... I'm 36. Like, my era was CrossFit when we got to that age, and now the ones that are coming up now, yours, is HYROX, run clubs. So-

    30. WT

      I think it goes a lot to do with, like, the longevity kind of, like, trend now. People wanna be, like, not just a meathead. "I wanna be functional. I wanna be able to, like, again, go up, go up the stairs," like you were saying, "and be able to breathe." So I, I think it... I actually do think it's a, it's a, it's a change for the better.

  14. 1:02:35 – 1:06:48

    Being Overwhelmed By Fitness Information

    1. WT

    2. CW

      What advice would you give to people who are overwhelmed by the sheer volume of fitness information that's available on the internet?

    3. WT

      Choose one. Because it's like a lot of things. I mean, even for me, like, you would listen to what one person says, you like that person, but then you watch another video and that person's slightly different. And then you're like, "W- what the hell I'm gonna... What am I gonna do?" So I think just find a source that you believe that you trust and try it, and give it a couple weeks. And, like, don't, don't, like, deviate from that. I think it's, it's even hard now. Like, even if I see a video where it's like, "Oh," like, "you're an idiot if you don't do this chest exercise." And then I see it, and I'm like, "Should I swap out what I'm, what I'm doing right now?" But it's like, if what you're doing right now is working-

    4. CW

      Mm.

    5. WT

      ... stick with it, and then keep that, like, in your toolbox for a little later.

    6. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    7. WT

      So it's kind of just find one person that you enjoy, try it out for a bit. If you don't like it, okay, well, you tried it, now you know. Find somebody else.

    8. CW

      What are your, or who are your favorite sources of fitness information?

    9. WT

      I got Mike Israetel. He, he very much so inspires a lot of how I train. You know, um, when I, when I got to work out with him, it was a cool experience 'cause you really... Like, you're, you're not just... You're, you're, you're like, you're mo- you're bodybuilding. You're not just moving the weight. Like, you're feeling every single second, and, like, you're making every rep last. Definitely, definitely him. Love the mile reps. I don't know if you do any of that with him. Yeah. Jeff Nippard, good friend of mine. Um, I like the science approach to fitness. I don't like any kind of guesswork. I'm not into, like, the bro style of training. I like when there's, uh, like, a scientific backing. It makes me feel like I can, like, rest at ease.

    10. CW

      Reassured.

    11. WT

      Yeah.

    12. CW

      Well, I... Again, this is... Kids nowadays just simply don't know what it was like 15 years ago, trawling bodybuilding.com forums, and there's some guy that says that he grew his delts by doing this one particular exercise and taking blueberry extract in a Nalgene bottle with dextrose. And you go, "Yeah, yeah, that's what I need." But now you have the Menno Henselmans, the Layne Nortons, the Israetels, the Nippards. Like, you have people who peer-reviewed evidence-based-

    13. WT

      Yeah.

    14. CW

      ... diet and training. And you know that what they're saying is backed up with something beyond what the big guy in my gym once said-

    15. WT

      Yeah.

    16. CW

      ... dot, dot, dot. Uh, so yeah, there is this degree of reassurance. The, the flailing around. I don't know whether you ever felt this of, like, if your training had plateaued and you didn't know why, and you also didn't know what you were supposed to do to fix it. That kind of is largely gone now. You just know, okay, there's an answer out there.

    17. WT

      Yeah. Exactly.

    18. CW

      Very quickly Google, "What happens if my arm gains plateau?" Oh well, you're gonna do this, you're gonna deload, then we're gonna come back with whatever. I'm gonna use the-

    19. WT

      Yeah.

    20. CW

      ... RP Strength app or whatever. Uh, it's a really different world, which I think is good, really good.

    21. WT

      But then at the same time, like, a lot of people who I... like, you know, who I hang out with sometimes, like film with, jacked, huge, in, like, in- incredible shape, 20 years old. I'm like, "Okay, so what are we doing today? I'm doing your workout. I'm gonna follow your program." They're like, "What do you wanna do? I don't know." Th- they don't-

    22. CW

      No idea what they-

    23. WT

      No idea what they're doing.

    24. CW

      Totally fluked being massive.

    25. WT

      Yeah. They're like, "How many reps?" "I don't count."

    26. CW

      Fuck those guys.

    27. WT

      Yeah. And I'm like, "Shit."

    28. CW

      Yeah. In other news, this episode is brought to you by Gymshark. You probably need some new gym kit, and my favorite shorts in the world that I've ever tried on and all I will ever wear for the rest of my life are Gymshark's Studio Shorts. They're phenomenal. They're super lightweight, super stretchy, incredibly comfortable, the perfect length. I literally have them in every color, and it's all that I ever train in. Their Heritage five-inch shorts are the ultimate comfortable shorts to wear every single day. I live and breathe in them, and despite the fact I insist on only wearing them, they keep on not falling apart. Their Crest study is what I fly everywhere in. So if you've seen me in an airport, that's what I've got on. And their Geo Seamless T-shirt is what I train in every single day. Basically, they make the best fitting, best value, most easily accessible gym kit on the planet for men and women. They ship internationally. There's 30-day free returns. Right now, you can shop my best picks for men and some for women too by going to the link in the description below or heading to gym.sh/modernwisdom and using the code MW10 at checkout for 10% off everything sitewide. That's gym.sh/modernwisdom and MW10 at checkout. You

  15. 1:06:48 – 1:12:30

    If Will Could Only Keep 10 Exercises

    1. CW

      mentioned exercises earlier on and chest exercises. If you only had 10 exercises that you were going to choose for the rest of your life to build and maintain as much muscle as possible-What are you gonna pick?

    2. WT

      Full body.

    3. CW

      Everything. Physique is being held together by 10 exercises. What do you choose?

    4. WT

      Hack- hack squat.

    5. CW

      Okay. Why?

    6. WT

      Quad, main- main quad builder.

    7. CW

      Okay.

    8. WT

      Glutes.

    9. CW

      Hack squat's interesting. All right.

    10. WT

      Yeah. I love hack squat.

    11. CW

      Yep.

    12. WT

      Romanian deadlift.

    13. CW

      Okay. Barbell?

    14. WT

      Yeah. Barbell Romanian deadlift.

    15. CW

      All right.

    16. WT

      Incline barbell bench.

    17. CW

      Classic.

    18. WT

      Yeah. Preacher curl?

    19. CW

      Also, W-bar?

    20. WT

      Yeah.

    21. CW

      Yep.

    22. WT

      Pull-up.

    23. CW

      The squat of the upper body.

    24. WT

      Yeah. I actually, I would argue overhead press, which I'm gonna say overhead press.

    25. CW

      Mm-hmm. Also good.

    26. WT

      Love that one.

    27. CW

      A lot of axial loads so far.

    28. WT

      I'm a huge compound guy.

    29. CW

      Right.

    30. WT

      Yeah. Overhead press, uh, lateral raise for sure.

Episode duration: 1:25:12

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode XJ_DP8SJfa0

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

Add to Chrome