The Good Ol’ Days Were Way Worse - Fin Taylor & Horatio Gould

Fin Taylor is an English comedian, writer and podcaster. Horatio Gould is also an English comedian, writer, and podcaster. History is basically one long reminder that no matter how bad your day is, someone in the past was probably getting catapulted off a castle wall. Feel better? Good. Humanity may be a litany of disasters, but the past is packed with lessons, even some dark humor, if you look closely enough. Expect to learn what makes the Japanese unique and why so many Japanese people practiced Seppuku, why post-war Europe was the funniest time in modern history, whether life was better in the past or just way, way worse than we imagined, why there is a rise of pro-Hitler media across social media, if too much irony is a bad thing, why racism is so ingrained in modern science, if fertility and embryo science has gone too far and much more… - 0:00 What Makes Japanese Culture So Distinct? 9:44 Was Post-War Britain the Funniest Time in History? 18:15 The Unlikely Heroes of Post-War Britain 22:30 Life Has Been Much Worse 27:12 How Would Historical Leaders Cope in Today’s World? 32:10 The Shocking Rise of Pro-Hilter Media 42:01 Were the Aztecs as Brutal as We Think? 46:33 Will Bryan Johnson Actually Live to 120? 53:58 Is Too Much Irony a Bad Thing? 01:07:38 Why Was Racism So Ingrained in Science? 01:21:08 When Does Embryo Selection Go Too Far? 01:31:12 What’s Next for Fin and Horatio? - Get $100 off the best bloodwork analysis in America at https://functionhealth.com/modernwisdom Get Free Travel Packs, Free Liquid Vitamin D, and more from AG1 at https://ag1.info/modernwisdom Get 35% off your first subscription on the best supplements from Momentous at https://livemomentous.com/modernwisdom Get a Free Sample Pack of LMNT’s most popular flavours with your first purchase at https://drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom - Get access to every episode 10 hours before YouTube by subscribing for free on Spotify - https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn or Apple Podcasts - https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Get my free Reading List of 100 life-changing books here - https://chriswillx.com/books/ Try my productivity energy drink Neutonic here - https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact/

Chris WilliamsonhostFin TaylorguestHoratio GouldguestGuest (Fin Taylor or Horatio Gould)guest

Nov 13, 20251h 32mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

150 min read · 30,025 words

0:00 – 9:44
What Makes Japanese Culture So Distinct?
1. CWChris Williamson
  You are historians now.
2. FTFin Taylor
  Yes, very much so.
3. CWChris Williamson
  Congratulations.
4. HGHoratio Gould
  Big pivot.
5. CWChris Williamson
  Uh-huh. Yeah, hard pivot.
6. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah, yeah. Into academia.
7. FTFin Taylor
  I mean, this is what the manosphere's come to.
8. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah.
9. FTFin Taylor
  If you're speaking to historians, you'll, you'll get us on to talk. It doesn't matter, because we can-
10. HGHoratio Gould
  Well, it's the lot-
11. FTFin Taylor
  We can say what we want-
12. HGHoratio Gould
  It's the logical end point of-
13. FTFin Taylor
  ... and there'll be people who'll be like, "What? Really?"
14. HGHoratio Gould
  ... podcasts that need academic guests.
15. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
16. HGHoratio Gould
  Is they use all of them.
17. CWChris Williamson
  This is how low the barrel is that I'm scraping.
18. HGHoratio Gould
  This is how your business model works. Is once you've had-
19. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
20. HGHoratio Gould
  ... whatever, what's his name? Graham?
21. FTFin Taylor
  Graham Hancock. (laughs)
22. HGHoratio Gould
  Because you've had him on four times.
23. FTFin Taylor
  Graham Hand Job. Yeah.
24. HGHoratio Gould
  (laughs) You have to get, you have to get a new guy on.
25. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
26. CWChris Williamson
  The legitimacy has declined so much-
27. HGHoratio Gould
  Who will deny even more genocide. (laughs)
28. CWChris Williamson
  ... that it's got to you guys. Yeah, I agree.
29. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah, it's not clicky enough.
30. CWChris Williamson
  Yeah.
9:44 – 18:15
Was Post-War Britain the Funniest Time in History?
1. CWChris Williamson
  What, what level of credentials do you have?
2. FTFin Taylor
  I got none.
3. CWChris Williamson
  You got the-
4. HGHoratio Gould
  I have a, I have a degree from Bristol-
5. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
6. CWChris Williamson
  ... in-
7. HGHoratio Gould
  ... in history.
8. FTFin Taylor
  And if you ain't a comedian, you'd probably end up being a history teacher probably.
9. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah, I mean, e- everyone in my family is, uh, a teacher and a lot of them are-
10. FTFin Taylor
  H- mm.
11. HGHoratio Gould
  ... his- history teachers.
12. CWChris Williamson
  Okay.
13. HGHoratio Gould
  And my aunt ran the photography, uh, at the Imperial War Museum her whole career. So-
14. FTFin Taylor
  That's your poten- credentials.
15. HGHoratio Gould
  ... there's a real his- there's a real ... And like, you know, the obsession with Nazis is ... But I'm, I'm realizing it's 'cause it comes from Christmas every year.
16. FTFin Taylor
  So your aunt takes-
17. HGHoratio Gould
  Genuinely.
18. FTFin Taylor
  ... your aunt takes photos of guns, that's all your cred- credentials?
19. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah. Yeah.
20. FTFin Taylor
  Right. (laughs)
21. HGHoratio Gould
  She collects photos of guns.
22. CWChris Williamson
  (laughs)
23. HGHoratio Gould
  And she, um ... Yeah, but that's ... My whole family is, is history teachers actually-
24. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
25. HGHoratio Gould
  ... thinking about it. And then you just, you just-
26. FTFin Taylor
  I just like it.
27. HGHoratio Gould
  You're just autistic, I think.
28. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah. I also-
29. CWChris Williamson
  Spent too much time on ChatGBT.
30. FTFin Taylor
  So yeah, something, something like that.
18:15 – 22:30
The Unlikely Heroes of Post-War Britain
1. HGHoratio Gould
  of, of that.
2. FTFin Taylor
  Were there other, uh, any other-
3. HGHoratio Gould
  Historical history.
4. FTFin Taylor
  ... unlikely heroes that you sort of fell in love with postwar?
5. HGHoratio Gould
  How, I mean, Howard Wilson's second term.
6. FTFin Taylor
  Wilson's a beast.
7. HGHoratio Gould
  The episode is called Stop Pegging Grandad.
8. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
9. HGHoratio Gould
  That-He was being sexually dominated by his private secretary-
10. CWChris Williamson
  (laughs)
11. HGHoratio Gould
  ... during-
12. CWChris Williamson
  Marcia.
13. HGHoratio Gould
  ... Mar- Marcia Williams.
14. CWChris Williamson
  Actually, this isn't one of your euphemisms?
15. HGHoratio Gould
  No, you can, you can f- look at The Rest Is History.
16. CWChris Williamson
  Mm-hmm.
17. HGHoratio Gould
  They talk about it, so it's real. (laughs)
18. CWChris Williamson
  Yeah. (laughs) Okay.
19. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah.
20. CWChris Williamson
  Hang on. So the litmus test for Finn versus history-
21. HGHoratio Gould
  Yep.
22. CWChris Williamson
  ... is The Rest Is History?
23. FTFin Taylor
  I mean, I ran into Tom Holland at a historical exhibition. I said, "By the way, I'm about to start a podcast which is just me remembering your podcast."
24. HGHoratio Gould
  Mm.
25. FTFin Taylor
  And, you know. So that's basically what-
26. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah.
27. FTFin Taylor
  ... the premise of this podcast is.
28. HGHoratio Gould
  In many ways.
29. FTFin Taylor
  Is us trying to b- remember some of their episodes and getting it wrong.
30. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah.
22:30 – 27:12
Life Has Been Much Worse
1. CWChris Williamson
  This is so good. I didn't realize that there was so much bullshit going on that we needed to have these snap elections just back to back to back, like what the fuck?
2. FTFin Taylor
  Well, one thing that I found quite therapeutic, which I always find therapeutic about history is realizing how fucked things were-
3. CWChris Williamson
  Mm.
4. FTFin Taylor
  ... to put some perspective.
5. CWChris Williamson
  Mm.
6. FTFin Taylor
  'Cause certainly if you're on Twitter, it feels like everything's grinding to a halt, everything's awful.
7. CWChris Williamson
  Mm-hmm.
8. FTFin Taylor
  But you just look 20 years, 30 years backwards and you're like, "It could be a lot worse." 1974, comparing it to British political history now, you remember it's a lot of the same things we're going through now, but worse.
9. CWChris Williamson
  Yeah.
10. FTFin Taylor
  Energy crisis, the economy.
11. HGHoratio Gould
  Three-day week.
12. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah, all of that sort of stuff.
13. CWChris Williamson
  What's a three-day week?
14. HGHoratio Gould
  They, they, uh, they didn't have the energy because the miners were demanding so much money and the, and the-
15. CWChris Williamson
  Mm.
16. HGHoratio Gould
  ... um, prime minister was in a standoff with them. And then the OPEC crisis kicks off with the Middle East wars. So suddenly energy is insanely expensive and the miners realize that they actually... Well, th- they've got all the leverage to demand what they need, but the country can't afford to pay them what they want. So Ted Heath doesn't give them what they want. He says, um, "Everyone can only use electricity for three days a week." So he rations electricity. TV ends at 10:00 PM.
17. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
18. HGHoratio Gould
  Um, that's when football starts getting played on Sundays because they can't afford to use floodlights.
19. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
20. HGHoratio Gould
  So football, which was always on Saturdays.
21. CWChris Williamson
  Has to be in the daytime.
22. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah, has to be in the daytime, so-
23. FTFin Taylor
  I mean, it got so bleak, yeah.
24. HGHoratio Gould
  And apparently that's when, um, uh, uh, kinky stuff starts.
25. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
26. HGHoratio Gould
  'Cause one of the government advi- mand- advice was there's only... You can only work for three days. So to pass the time, why don't you experiment with your sex lives?
27. FTFin Taylor
  (laughs)
28. HGHoratio Gould
  So butt stuff starts because the light's gone.
29. FTFin Taylor
  But you gotta do, you gotta pass the time somehow.
30. HGHoratio Gould
  You can only do it with the lights off.
27:12 – 32:10
How Would Historical Leaders Cope in Today’s World?
1. FTFin Taylor
2. CWChris Williamson
  Interesting for the worst crimes of the 20th century, uh, Hitler, Stalin-
3. FTFin Taylor
  Mm.
4. CWChris Williamson
  ... Mao-
5. FTFin Taylor
  Mm.
6. CWChris Williamson
  ... all terrible relationships to their fathers.
7. HGHoratio Gould
  Mm.
8. CWChris Williamson
  Imagine if they'd had modern wisdom back in the day.
9. FTFin Taylor
  But in that period, who had a good relationship with their father?
10. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah, modern ancient fucktards. That's us.
11. FTFin Taylor
  Like, I feel it was before, it was pre-good relationships with fathers, right?
12. HGHoratio Gould
  This was handshakes, fathers were-
13. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah, I mean-
14. HGHoratio Gould
  I mean, as a father myself, I do-
15. CWChris Williamson
  Like that.
16. FTFin Taylor
  I'd like to, I'd like to see who... Did Churchill have a good relationship with his father?
17. CWChris Williamson
  No.
18. FTFin Taylor
  No. So it's just like-
19. CWChris Williamson
  Horrendous. Fucking awful.
20. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah.
21. FTFin Taylor
  It's, I don't think you could say that was the cause of them, because it was like e- everyone-
22. HGHoratio Gould
  I'd say, I'd say we're the first generation to, to, to be dads-
23. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
24. HGHoratio Gould
  ... that are th- trying.
25. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
26. CWChris Williamson
  That are actually invested. That's a really good point.
27. HGHoratio Gould
  Not invested in the-
28. FTFin Taylor
  'Cause if you look at them, you look at their life and you go, "It was clearly this." But then you look at anyone on their street.
29. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah.
30. FTFin Taylor
  You look at anyone in the village.
32:10 – 42:01
The Shocking Rise of Pro-Hilter Media
1. CWChris Williamson
  it's weird, like World War II stuff is kind of ASMR for white guys in their 30s.
2. FTFin Taylor
  Mm-hmm.
3. HGHoratio Gould
  Yes.
4. CWChris Williamson
  D- documentaries.
5. FTFin Taylor
  It comes through us all.
6. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah.
7. CWChris Williamson
  Yeah.
8. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah.
9. CWChris Williamson
  And, and that is... I imagine that there's just an infinite amount of stuff that you can keep going back over with regards to that.
10. HGHoratio Gould
  Well, we're trying to stretch it out on our pod-
11. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
12. HGHoratio Gould
  ... because it is, it is the... It's real just nitroglycerin-
13. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
14. HGHoratio Gould
  ... for the listeners. They love it.
15. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
16. HGHoratio Gould
  Um, 'cause it is, it's probably the most exciting thing that's, that's...
17. FTFin Taylor
  Well it's like, all of history, right, was leading to the night-night bomb.
18. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah.
19. FTFin Taylor
  And everything's been going out. It's like an hourglass, that's it.
20. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah.
21. FTFin Taylor
  It's like all... History is like a pyramid leading towards the big atomic explosion.
22. CWChris Williamson
  Mm-hmm.
23. FTFin Taylor
  So that's like the... And then everything's been a fallout since then, right?
24. CWChris Williamson
  Mm-hmm.
25. FTFin Taylor
  That's how... So I think World War II is just, if you like history, it's the, it's the big... It's the season finale, right?
26. CWChris Williamson
  It's the perfect amount of-
27. FTFin Taylor
  It's brilliant.
28. CWChris Williamson
  ... long enough ago that it's interesting to research, but close enough to us that there was sufficient information captured about it-
29. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah.
30. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah. Video and-
42:01 – 46:33
Were the Aztecs as Brutal as We Think?
1. HGHoratio Gould
  yeah.
2. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
3. CWChris Williamson
  I know nothing about the Aztecs. Like, what-
4. FTFin Taylor
  The one... The only thing I'll say about that is the misconception-
5. HGHoratio Gould
  Five-part series in history.
6. FTFin Taylor
  ... is it... it should be viewed more as a civil war than, like, a colonizing thing.
7. CWChris Williamson
  Mm-hmm.
8. FTFin Taylor
  'Cause it was like... There was... Everyone talks about it as like 600 conquistadors-
9. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah.
10. FTFin Taylor
  ... who took over all the Aztecs. It was actually two Aztecs that... who, the Mexica, was a rival clan with... who were fucking over loads of other-
11. HGHoratio Gould
  Can you remember the name of the rival clan? I remember there were a lot of them.
12. FTFin Taylor
  Tlacht-
13. HGHoratio Gould
  Tlach- Tlach- Tlachcarlans.
14. FTFin Taylor
  Tlachcarlans.
15. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah.
16. FTFin Taylor
  Tlachca- carlans.
17. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah.
18. FTFin Taylor
  Right?
19. HGHoratio Gould
  Tlachcarlans.
20. FTFin Taylor
  And then they basically allied with the Spanish.... uh, to, uh, take over the Aztecs. So wha- what's missing is that it wasn't 600 conquistadors versus all the Aztecs. It was 600 conquistadors with thousands of other Chachalans.
21. CWChris Williamson
  Mm-hmm.
22. HGHoratio Gould
  Versus- Versus a guy in a massive owl suit.
23. FTFin Taylor
  I mean yeah, yeah, with an owl suit.
24. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah.
25. FTFin Taylor
  They had guns and-
26. CWChris Williamson
  One guy had an owl suit.
27. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah, yeah.
28. FTFin Taylor
  But-
29. CWChris Williamson
  Were the, were the Aztecs as brutal as-
30. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
46:33 – 53:58
Will Bryan Johnson Actually Live to 120?
1. HGHoratio Gould
  to think-
2. FTFin Taylor
  'Cause people really don't like it.
3. CWChris Williamson
  The way to think about Brian Johnson is that he is like a scout in an army. And you don't want an army that's filled with scouts. And I also probably, myself, don't wanna be the guy that tries to climb up to the top of that mountain to see if there's something interesting-
4. HGHoratio Gould
  Just your thought, yeah.
5. CWChris Williamson
  ... over the far side. And I'm like, but I'll happily have him go up and come back and tell us, "Let me tell you what I found up there," if he comes back.
6. FTFin Taylor
  He's nosy as hell.
7. CWChris Williamson
  But he did say-
8. FTFin Taylor
  He's digging around. It's like, you shouldn't be digging around in there, like, "What are you looking for?"
9. CWChris Williamson
  Yeah. He did, yeah, it's like trying to change the source code OS-
10. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
11. CWChris Williamson
  ... of your Windows computer.
12. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
13. CWChris Williamson
  Windows XP. You're like, mate, you're gonna break something in there. Uh, but he did, he did tweet not long ago, he said, "I guarantee I will die in the most hilarious and ironic way possible."
14. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah, yeah.
15. CWChris Williamson
  So-
16. HGHoratio Gould
  Well, it's just cosmically-
17. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
18. HGHoratio Gould
  ... you know. There's ju- it's, it would be too funny-
19. CWChris Williamson
  Yeah.
20. HGHoratio Gould
  ... to just slip on a banana-
21. FTFin Taylor
  (laughs)
22. HGHoratio Gould
  ... and hit your head. It's j- just funny.
23. FTFin Taylor
  'Cause the, the oldest person in the world right now is British, Ethel. Ethel Caserin?
24. HGHoratio Gould
  Uh, and I think we are starting a cam- E- Ethel Caserin, we're starting a campaign.
25. FTFin Taylor
  So sh-
26. HGHoratio Gould
  She has to overtake the record which is held by a Frenchwoman.
27. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah, yeah.
28. HGHoratio Gould
  Uh, there's another campaign we're starting on our podcast-
29. FTFin Taylor
  I think she's been cooking the books though, the Frenchwoman.
30. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah. There's a campaign we're starting on our podcast to get Ethel Caserin past, what is it, 100-
53:58 – 1:07:38
Is Too Much Irony a Bad Thing?
1. CWChris Williamson
  I still don't know why Vietnam started and I've watched that Ken Burns documentary three times.
2. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah, that's what I mean. You watch and you're like, "Well, I'm brilliant." (laughs)
3. HGHoratio Gould
  Well, many ways to start, well, let's not get into it.
4. FTFin Taylor
  No, it's a-
5. HGHoratio Gould
  We'll do Vietnam some point.
6. FTFin Taylor
  It's a quagmire.
7. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah, it is. Yeah.
8. FTFin Taylor
  (laughs) Uh, but it was interesting as you were saying how no one-
9. HGHoratio Gould
  It's the French fault.
10. FTFin Taylor
  It was the French's fault. Uh, it was interesting you were saying that earnestness has gone. You- I'd consider you quite an earnest person.
11. CWChris Williamson
  I think I am, yeah.
12. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
13. CWChris Williamson
  I have a problem with ironic speech, too much ironic speech.
14. HGHoratio Gould
  Oh, we don't have that problem.
15. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
16. CWChris Williamson
  (laughs) I imagine. Well, comedians.
17. HGHoratio Gould
  We have the opposite problem.
18. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
19. CWChris Williamson
  Yeah, to meet more honesty.
20. FTFin Taylor
  I've got ironic syndrome I think. I think it's a syndrome now.
21. HGHoratio Gould
  Oh, yeah.
22. CWChris Williamson
  But even that, I don't mind, like it's, uh, the internet show that you guys do, Thinnest of the Internet.
23. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.
24. CWChris Williamson
  Like the whole thing is like meta and there's jokes on jokes and it's- but it's- it's-
25. FTFin Taylor
  But you're one of the best guests, if not the best guest-
26. HGHoratio Gould
  Yeah. Yeah.
27. FTFin Taylor
  ... on the show by the way.
28. CWChris Williamson
  Why? You just-
29. HGHoratio Gould
  Your reactions.
30. FTFin Taylor
  Yeah.

Episode duration: 1:32:38

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