Modern WisdomThe Modern Sex Work Debate - Bonnie Blue & Louise Perry (4K)
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,023 words- 0:00 – 10:50
Why Does Bonnie Do Sex Work?
- CWChris Williamson
Louise, why were you interested in sitting down with Bonnie?
- LPLouise Perry
I find you really interesting. I think that a lot of, just having talked to women-
- BBBonnie Blue
Mm-hmm.
- LPLouise Perry
... about doing this conversation, the response from so many women is, I think, something like morbid curiosity.
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
Like interested in you, confused by you.
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
And wondering, I mean, the main thing that I'm hoping that, to learn about you today, 'cause obviously I know about your work, is your psychology and your personality, what it is about you that's led you to do this.
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
Because I get the impression, from having watched interviews with you and so on, that actually, I, I, over the years I've interviewed loads and loads of women or spoken to loads and loads of women who've been in the sex industry in various ways-
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
... whether that's porn or prostitution or brothels, street walking, whatever. And every single case, they've talked about distress, trauma or having a horrible time, like to varying degrees.
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
You don't talk about that, and I think that you're telling the truth.
- BBBonnie Blue
Mm-hmm.
- LPLouise Perry
I think actually you don't find this work causes you psychological harm.
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
And I guess I wanna find out why.
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
I think that's a really interesting question.
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah. No, I think it's good 'cause everyone always assumes-
- LPLouise Perry
Mm-hmm.
- BBBonnie Blue
... and even when I say multiple times, "I'm not traumatized, I've not had a bad upbringing," everyone thinks I'm lying and it's really not the case and it's terrible for some people unfortunately they've had a bad upbringing or terrible things have happened, but for me, I've just chosen to do this.
- CWChris Williamson
How familiar are you with Louise's work? You, do you know what she writes about? Are you familiar with any of her background?
- BBBonnie Blue
No, I'm not unfortunately.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay, how would you, what's a 30,000 foot view to explain to, to Bonnie sort of your philosophical underpinnings?
- LPLouise Perry
So, I guess I'm coming at this as a conservative.
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
And I've, uh, I mean I wrote a book called The Case Against the Sexual Revolution.
- BBBonnie Blue
Mm-hmm.
- 10:50 – 16:34
Bonnie’s Thoughts on What It’s Really Like Sleeping With Lots of Men
- LPLouise Perry
How about emotional endurance? Because another thing that a lot of women will think is-
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
... like frankly a lot of these guys are gross. Like I've seen- I've seen videos of your cues and of the guys-
- BBBonnie Blue
Mm-hmm.
- LPLouise Perry
... who show up to the events, and they- they- they can be old, they can be fat, like probably some of them smell I'm guessing. Like they're not-
- BBBonnie Blue
See honestly, everyone says this, but in terms of the smell, like yeah, some of them are skinny, some are fat, like some are spotty, some aren't, but that's normal. Like, um, in terms of smell, genuinely they never smell and I think it's because they're so nervous.
- LPLouise Perry
(laughs) They've maxed out on Lynx before they show up.
- BBBonnie Blue
They know they're coming to me. 100%.
- LPLouise Perry
Yeah.
- BBBonnie Blue
They know they're coming to me purely for sex, so they have showered just before I came, they freshen up just before they come in. So in terms of smell, no. But even in terms of body shapes, I used to say, "Oh, fat people are lazy. Like, they actually irritate me." But then, uh, when I became a sex worker and I started to speak to these men a lot more, yeah, some of them are fat and I'd speak to them and realize they're not necessarily fat all the time because they're lazy. Their life is so busy, they've got children now, they're trying to pay bills, they're trying to keep on top of things and they can no longer prioritize, you know, clean eating all the time in the gym. So, I don't even judge the fat ones anymore, but I used to.
- LPLouise Perry
But you don't get any sense of like physically recoiling? Like, "I don't fancy this man." You never get that?
- BBBonnie Blue
Well, most of them have a blue ski mask in, on. So in terms of the face-
- LPLouise Perry
So face wise, no?
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah. I think if I really found someone unattractive, the part I struggle with most is the kissing.
- LPLouise Perry
Mm-hmm.
- BBBonnie Blue
Um, 'cause to me that's very, I don't know, you connect a lot when you kiss someone.
- LPLouise Perry
Mm-hmm.
- BBBonnie Blue
But no, like...I don't always even see their face, and I know this is gonna repulse a lot of people, but I love the fact there's, like, always a rotation. I don't even always know I've had sex with someone. I don't always know who's inside of me. Um, but no, I don't get repulsed. I sort of see everyone as they're there for a reason. I don't know what's happening behind their closed doors, and I'm there purely to give them a good experience, and that's all I sort of focus on. Some of them I obviously find more attractive than others. I think, "Bloody hell, you're hot," and then other ones, I'm like, "Oh, I wouldn't date you." But even if you walk past someone attractive in the street, that's not what's gonna make you come. It's the way they are, their technique. And I can remember when I was a full service worker, one of my clients, he was a bit bigger. I didn't find him attractive, and if anything, he repulsed me a little bit. He made me orgasm, and I was like, "Oh, God, should I (laughs) be disgusted with myself that this guy that I don't find attractive has just made me come?" And then I realized it's not to do with their looks. It's their technique and how they treat me in the bedroom. Like, you could have sleep with someone really attractive, and they're terrible in bed.
- LPLouise Perry
So you do have a threshold. Like, sometimes you will find men slightly repulsive, at least, but it's not so high a threshold that basically everyone-
- BBBonnie Blue
Obviously, I look at different people and think, "You're more attractive than the other person. I prefer your body shape to the other one." Like, everyone's got preferences, and I know I have. But I never look at someone and think, "I don't want you near me."
- LPLouise Perry
Interesting. I remember Rachel Moran, who is a... She was, um, a prostituted as a teenager in, in Dublin.
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
Um, she... Something that she says to women to try and, like, help them to understand what it's like to be, um, in prostitution is, "Imagine being on a bus or in a café or something and look around every single man in that room and think, 'I have to have sex with every single one of these men.'"
- BBBonnie Blue
Mm-hmm.
- LPLouise Perry
"Like, old, young, fat, whatever." Um, and she, she uses that as the thought experiment for women, because overwhelmingly, they respond like, "Ugh." And what's unusual about you is you don't respond, "Ugh."
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
You actually embrace it.
- BBBonnie Blue
I think if they were smelly and, like-
- LPLouise Perry
Okay.
- BBBonnie Blue
... stuff like that, that'd really get me. Like, smell, I just think stick some deodorant on or have a shower, like.
- 16:34 – 21:37
What Motivates Bonnie?
- LPLouise Perry
And so, like, where's this come from? Where's this, this massive change in your sexual preferences?
- BBBonnie Blue
Um, to start with, money.
- LPLouise Perry
Yeah.
- BBBonnie Blue
I didn't wanna go back to work. I used to work in recruitment, long hours, restricted annual leave, and I lived the same life as everybody else, and then they sit and complain about it.
- LPLouise Perry
Heard that you worked at Poundland when you were younger as well.
- BBBonnie Blue
Yes, I did. That was quite bad, to be honest. I can remember someone pissed in a potty and gave it to me.
- LPLouise Perry
(laughs)
- BBBonnie Blue
And I was thinking-
- LPLouise Perry
Well, that, well, both the fact that it's called Poundland and they pissed in a potty, that was quite prescient, I guess, for the rest of your life.
- BBBonnie Blue
(laughs)
- LPLouise Perry
(laughs)
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah, to be honest, I shoulda used that. But yeah, like, I used to be a waitress. I was a dance teacher. I worked at Poundland. I just did anything for a bit of, a bit of money. And I never really cared what job I did. Like, I worked at Poundstretcher because that job paid more than all the other shops at the retail park.
- LPLouise Perry
Mm-hmm.
- BBBonnie Blue
Other people wanted a job at McDonald's, but my job paid nearly 2 pound extra an hour. So I've always been more bothered about what life I can create outside of work as opposed to being bothered that I had to wear a Poundstretcher outfit. Um, but yeah, when I first started, it was money, and I wanted flexibility in my life, because I knew going back into recruitment when rush-hour traffic, sitting there for 40 hours a week, if not longer, and only having Saturday and Sunday to myself, and then Sundays tends to be food shop, cooking for the week, and your whole day's taken up before you know it. So money and freedom was why I started.
- LPLouise Perry
So you hadn't previously been sexually adventurous, especially?
- BBBonnie Blue
No, like, sex three times a week. Um-
- LPLouise Perry
With your husband.
- BBBonnie Blue
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
How, how old were you when you lost virginity?
- BBBonnie Blue
13.
- LPLouise Perry
So that is quite young.
- BBBonnie Blue
Young, but I've always been very grown up for my age. So if I saw a 13-year-old now, some of them, I'm like, "Oh, my God. I can't believe I even had sex at that age." But I was very mature when I was 13.
- LPLouise Perry
In terms of the, the, the group sex events that you're known for now-
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Why did you start doing that? Was it because it turns you on or was- was it because there was, like, a niche in the market?
- BBBonnie Blue
It happened by accident, to be honest, the first one. Well, I don't just trip into... You know, and end up in a gangbang. But I started off doing things like freshers and Spring Break. And I was at Spring Break in March y- last year, and loads of them would have been saying it that, like, at the hotel I was at, like, "Oh, I haven't had a chance to sleep with you yet. You've not replied to my message." And I was leaving the following day, so I just shared my hotel room number. I was like, "Look, I'm gonna be here. I leave at 10:00 AM tomorrow. Just queue up, bring your friends, like, the door's gonna be open." And that just naturally ended up in a gangbang. It got to, like, 3:00, 4:00 AM, I was really tired and I was like, "Look, whoever's left in the queue, look, just come all at once because, like, I don't wanna leave you waiting." And that was the first time I did a gangbang. And I realized it wasn't what I thought. It wasn't dirty, it wasn't disgusting. These guys were having a laugh. They was high-fiving each other. It was quite... It was more funny than it was sexy, to be honest. Some of them couldn't get hard, some of them was finishing straight away. And I realized I loved the environment it created. It wasn't dirty. And I know people imagine it that way, but it was really just a- a fun experience for me and those involved.
- CWChris Williamson
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- BBBonnie Blue
Um, so after that Spring Break, there was a journalist who said, like, "What's next?" Like, "What are you gonna do after this?" Because each time I was doing these, like, Spring Break or freshers, my numbers was going up and he's like, "Well, why don't you do the world record?" So it was actually a journalist, Joe, who sort of mentioned it, and I didn't think too much of it. I was like, "Yeah, that sounds brilliant." But I knew I wasn't big enough at the time to get 900, 1,000 people to be queuing up and having sex with me. 'Cause it's one thing saying you're gonna do it, the organization behind it is probably the biggest headache and the difficult part. Um, so yeah, it was in the back of my mind from March, and as the months went on, I continued to grow. My social media got bigger, I was building a bigger name for myself, so then that's why I did it in January.
- CWChris Williamson
If you've got any questions for us-
- BBBonnie Blue
(laughs)
- 21:37 – 27:42
Why Bonnie Doesn't Mind Women Hating Her
- CWChris Williamson
I guess doing the big events and, like, shocking people, and one of the things that you do in terms of your social media strategy-
- BBBonnie Blue
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... is you- you troll everyone, right? Like, and particularly-
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... you're often addressing women and, like, the wives-
- BBBonnie Blue
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... and girlfriends of these men, and really foc- like, trying to get a rise out of people, trying to be controversial.
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And one of the things, again, that I find sort of, as a woman, I find surprising, and having spoken to other women, they also find it surprising-
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... is that you don't seem to mind women hating you.
- BBBonnie Blue
No.
- CWChris Williamson
It doesn't upset you. You don't feel that need to be liked that most women do feel. It's another way in which, like, you've got the physical endurance, you've got the low threshold for disgust, you've got, and you've got this appetite for not- notoriety.
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah. I don't hate women at all. I know it can come across like I hate women, and that's honestly not the case at all. Um, but I say many times, like, women are very easy to wind up at times. And they're the ones that spend more time on TikTok than their husbands. So if I'm using a platform like TikTok, I'm gonna sometimes make my TikToks for women, because I know they're gonna complain about it, they're gonna sit and watch it, and their husband is then gonna hear it. So, my videos where I do the TikToks, even though it's aimed at women, it's aimed, because I know the husband's gonna hear about this one way or another. And the things I say, it can come across very harsh. I do believe everything I say, but I will word it in a very, I guess, rude way at times, because TikTok, you've got about 10 seconds before someone scrolls off that, if not shorter. So I'm gonna say it in the most brutal way possible to get them watching the rest of that video.
- CWChris Williamson
Do you have many female friends?
- BBBonnie Blue
Yes, I do.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- BBBonnie Blue
Um, I know that can seem shocking or people say, "Why would you sleep with their husband?" Or, "What do your friends think about what you say?" Um, but they hear, like, the long-winded explanation of why I've said something. Or, like, one of the big ones is, you know, about husbands cheating. And it was never, "Your husband is cheating on you." It was just, "If you're not having sex with him, he is probably going elsewhere, and I will happily sleep with him." But it's never to say, "Look, I'm gonna turn up at your house and drag your husband out, out of your home."
- CWChris Williamson
Would you feel a particular way if you'd found out that one of the people in the ski mask had been the husband of one of your friends?
- BBBonnie Blue
Um, yeah. I would obviously feel bad, because I'd feel bad that their relationship had broke down a lot sooner, before than what they would have realized. For him to have been at one of my events, it clearly shows how he had good communication with his wife. It's-
- CWChris Williamson
So you- you see it as, like, a symptom of the relationship in crisis, rather than-
- BBBonnie Blue
For sure.
- CWChris Williamson
... you causing crisis?
- BBBonnie Blue
You will have some idiots and some men that will just cheat because they've cheated and they've got two brain cells, if that. A lot of the time, though, if someone cheats, there's a reason. There's a lack of communication, a lack of connection with that partner. It's... I'm not the one to blame. I've never forced them to be there. All I've done is put the message out and said, "Hey..."... "Would you like to have sex with me?" No one is forced, no one is, you know, bribed to be there. No one's even paid.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- BBBonnie Blue
Um, if a wife has ever been affected because I've slept with her husband, it sounds rude but it's, they need to look in the mirror. They need to look at the communication they're having with their partner, and I'm sorry they're in a relationship that's not happy, but I'm not the one that's ruined that marriage.
- CWChris Williamson
That's true, but we would, you would be able to say, uh, a person who's a recovering alcoholic or a person who just has a tendency toward addiction-
- BBBonnie Blue
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... it is smarter for that person to not be around alcohol all the time. And if there was some imposition by the government that put alcohol on every street corner, this person-
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- 27:42 – 38:53
Louise’s Opinion on Bonnie’s Work
- CWChris Williamson
I think w- I think what you do, Bonnie, not just in terms of the porn but also in your attitude towards money and towards independence and like-
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... you, and actually egalitarianism. I mean, when you talk about like, "I'll take any man, I don't judge, whatever," there's something very, um, progressive about that politically, right? Like, be super, super egalitarian. What you do is you actually take a lot of these, um, ideas that are present in the culture to their logical conclusion.
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
You say, "Well, okay, you tell me the culture says that it's fine to be sexually liberated and to, um, prioritize being an entrepreneur and to,"
- BBBonnie Blue
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... um, "not worry about all these traditional hangups." And you basically take that to its logical conclusion.
- BBBonnie Blue
Take it to the extreme.
- CWChris Williamson
You do.
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And I think what, I think what happens a lot, one of the reasons I think you sort of rile people up is a lot of people who have a vague sense that that stuff is all good and fine and like, they're kind of okay with sexual freedom and they're kind of okay with capitalism and, o- and egalitarianism and... They see that taken to its extreme and they go, "Oh, hang on, I don't like that." Right, so you're saying that-
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... Bonnie is like the reductio ad absurdum of the sexual revolution.
- BBBonnie Blue
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Is-
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah, you hold up a mirror to the culture, I think-
- CWChris Williamson
But is- is-
- BBBonnie Blue
... is what it is.
- CWChris Williamson
... is it fair to say that Bonnie is just the natural end result of modern feminism?
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah. As well as other things too. But yeah, definitely. I mean, definitely the idea of prioritizing sexual liberation above all else and not-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- BBBonnie Blue
... seeing... I mean, what you said about sex being a hobby, I think that is an important idea that come... The only reason we think that now is because we have, um, reliable contraception. Obviously before that-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- BBBonnie Blue
... you couldn't think of sex in that way, because it-
- CWChris Williamson
Well, especially women. Like, they-
- BBBonnie Blue
Exactly, yeah. It's- it's 'cause the risks are so high for them. Um, but since the sexual revolution, we've come to think... I mean, uh, in a slightly schizophrenic way, I think that people actually often think contradictory things, but-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- BBBonnie Blue
... they often say, "Oh yeah, whatever sex, like, as long as everyone's consenting, that's fine." And then they see you- you doing exactly that, everyone in the queue, in your queues is consenting, you're consenting-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- BBBonnie Blue
... and they don't like it. And one of the reasons I think that you're such a notorious figure is because you- you actually invite people to look at those ideas and think, "Oh wait, maybe actually the... If I don't like what Bonnie Blue is doing-"
- 38:53 – 52:06
Is Bonnie’s Fame Culturally Damaging?
- CWChris Williamson
That's drinkag1.com/modernwisdom.
- LPLouise Perry
So, a concrete example of, yeah, not causing this individual harm, but-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
... causing a wider kind of harm, is when you did y- the thousand in, was it January?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
S- it happened at the same time, and obviously caused a lot of media response, at the same time that, uh, grooming gangs were back in the news-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
... because of Elon Musk talking about it primarily, and then there was a, you know, the wrangling over whether there should be an inquiry and all this kind of stuff. And some people pointed out at the time, it was not deliberate on your part-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
... um, but what it contributed to you being in the news was this sense that British women are sluts.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- LPLouise Perry
And that obviously fed into this whole discussion around grooming gangs and the feeling that, um, the girls have been asking for it, "Well, you know, we have this sexually liberated culture." You know, that's obviously the really, um, the really, really unsympathetic view that's taken towards-
- CWChris Williamson
For sure.
- LPLouise Perry
... the victims of these gangs. Do you feel like you end up feeding into that view of what British women are like?
- CWChris Williamson
No, 'cause I, I mean, I don't know how many women are in the UK, but it's a lot more than one. I'm one person out of millions.
- LPLouise Perry
But you have this massive international reputation.
- CWChris Williamson
For sure, but I also get told all the time how it's not normal. So, I'm not, there's no part of me that believes I'm to blame if UK people are being called sluts, because I'm one person. I say, "Look, this is what I consent to. This is what I enjoy." Every single woman is so different. I even do hundreds of TikToks saying how lazy women are and how much they don't want to give blow jobs. So, I highlight the fact they're not sluts. They're quite the opposite.
- LPLouise Perry
I suppo- I suppose that's true. Yeah. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) But yeah, it is, I've been asked multiple times if I'm a cover-up, because the same time I've done something, something big's gone in the news, and unfortunately it's been sort of pushed down because my press has, you know, been spoken about more. And that's terrible, and there's much more concerning things in the world to be highlighted and talked about. Right, okay. You're s- you're saying that your sex events are false flags to try and drown out some more deserving-
- LPLouise Perry
Apparently.
- CWChris Williamson
... news story. Okay.
- LPLouise Perry
I've been asked if I was a spy before as well.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- LPLouise Perry
Um, but yeah, like, it's, sometimes the timing's bad and I'm, you know, it's really unfortunate that sometimes my stories have been spoken about more than things that are honestly dangerous and damaging on society.
- CWChris Williamson
So, your, your concern is there's a kind of propagandistic effect of the type of pornography coming out of the UK that might make it more attractive for foreign people to come here, or for people who don't fully understand the culture to have a, a sense... They haven't been able to do what you've said, which is, "I keep on being told that I'm not normal." Something tells me that it isn't the people who don't have an in-depth understanding of what the culture is, because the only way they can say that's not normal is to have something to frame it against.
- LPLouise Perry
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
"This is normal. This is not normal. This is an outlier." But if all you see is the tiny tip of the iceberg when you're not delving that deep into culture, you just see what is the biggest story-
- LPLouise Perry
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... which happens to be you, and if it's consistently, to be honest, you and Lily Phillips, like, uh, you guys-
- LPLouise Perry
Both from the same part of the country, as well.
- 52:06 – 1:00:40
Is Bonnie Teaching Men Safe and Consensual Sex?
- LPLouise Perry
level and say, "Well, I'm consenting and I'm consenting, therefore it's fine."
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
But it can scale to having really destructive cultural consequences.
- CWChris Williamson
I d- I do think trying to sort of... As I am sitting in the middle here and hearing... In a world that pedestalizes radical responsibility, personal accountability, freedom, all that stuff, uh, it is tough to come up with a first-order pushback. It's like, "Everyone's consenting. This is all allowed."
- BBBonnie Blue
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
That does seem to me to h- to hold quite a bit of water, which is... What happens when you start to move culture? What happens-
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... when guys start to think, "Well, Bonnie Blue likes it, and she's the most famous porn star in the UK"?
- BBBonnie Blue
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And then you get to a situation where... I do imagine that girls could be traumatized by guys try...
- BBBonnie Blue
For sure.
- CWChris Williamson
Dudes are nervous in the bedroom, and they want-
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... to try and perform in a way that they think is going to make them attractive and masculine, "And I'm gonna do the thing."
- BBBonnie Blue
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
You go, "It shouldn't have been that. Like, it wasn't that thing."
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
"That thing wasn't the thing you should've been doing." And that influence, that sexual culture influence, the reason that we don't t- tend to typically talk about it, is that we don't try on sexual tactics the same way as we see somebody in a cool pair of cargo pants.
- BBBonnie Blue
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
We... That has only been a very recent invention that you would even be able to... You know, maybe your uncle that was kind of a little bit ch- like, chill would have said, "Oh, well, you know, you can do this-"
- BBBonnie Blue
"Hey." Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
"... in the bedroom," or whatever.
- BBBonnie Blue
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And that's it. It wouldn't... Maybe your older brother, perhaps, I guess. But even that's a bit weird. So this world of, um, sex technique influence and trends-
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... I have to assume kind of really didn't-
- LPLouise Perry
It's an internet phenomenon, I guess.
- BBBonnie Blue
Yes, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
It didn't exist previously. And you are, you are going to be contributing to that.
- BBBonnie Blue
See, I disagree. I think the reason is, like, the porn I make, there's... The consent is discussed on camera. When I'm talking about being choked, I always say, "Hey, can you choke me like this? Actually, can you do it a bit looser?" And I've said from the start, some of these guys, when I started doing 18-year-old content, would come to me and do just that. They'd wanna perform, they'd wanna go really rough, and they'd slap and choke. And I'm like, "Whoa, hold on a second, you're actually hurting me now." I'm confident enough to speak up to say, "Hey," like just how guys try and perform and really impress the girls, sometimes a lot of girls will just take it because they wanna seem... They wanna impress the guy as well, and make out they can take it and be rough.
- 1:00:40 – 1:07:46
Should We Watch More Porn?
- BBBonnie Blue
um, and they don't know what they're doing. So teach them.
- CWChris Williamson
Nearly two thirds, about 64% of men under age 25 support making it harder to access pornography online, up from 51%-
- BBBonnie Blue
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... in 2013. If young people are becoming more conservative about sex and pornography, how come Bonnie is still breaking records?
- LPLouise Perry
Well, I guess even though you earn so much money, like, you've still got-
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
Your audience is not all men by any means, right?
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
You've got a fairly small number of men who are supporting you. Um, I- I also sense there's this move against, from the younger men, there's this move, and women as well, against porn. And I suspect that that comes from the fact that these are, say, Zoomers who've grown up on the internet.
- BBBonnie Blue
What does Zoomers mean?
- LPLouise Perry
Like, born this century.
- BBBonnie Blue
Okay.
- LPLouise Perry
They were brought up on the internet. They were exposed to porn really young ages.
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
I mean, it's often, like, I think average age is 11 for boys, something like that.
- BBBonnie Blue
Crazy.
- LPLouise Perry
And so... And they'll often been exposed to real extreme stuff, and it's, it's damaged them psychologically and sexually, in that they... I mean, like what we were talking about earlier with sometimes weird tastes escalating.
- BBBonnie Blue
Mm.
- LPLouise Perry
But also often, say, struggling with erectile dysfunction when you're actually in the room with... Like, if you've trained yourself on porn and on your own hand-
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
... when you're then in the room with a real woman, you might not be able to get it up.
- BBBonnie Blue
For sure.
- LPLouise Perry
Or having, uh, unrealistic expectations, just not being able to find normal women as attractive because you've-
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
... become used to watching women like you. And I think that a lot of men have just learnt from their own personal experience, and just purely selfishly, like regardless of the whether or not porn is fair trade (laughs) , they've learnt that actually it's bad for them.
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
And it's probably bad for everyone. Like, I mean, when it comes to porn addiction, for instance, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
- BBBonnie Blue
Yeah.
- LPLouise Perry
It's a terrible thing to suffer through.
- BBBonnie Blue
Because I think even with porn, like you mentioned then, they think unrealistic body shapes because they're looking at these women that, "You know, we do it for, for a job." Well, it's not a job in most people's eyes. But they also shouldn't do that though, though, because that's stupid, because probably the porn they're watching, their penis is probably half the size of that and nor do they have a chiseled (laughs) six-pack. So, um, yeah, it is terrible when some guys can no longer get hard because they've watched so much porn, or they have unrealistic expectations of women. And they shouldn't, because, one, they don't, most probably don't perform like a porn star. Um, but I'm not saying porn's the answer for everything. It's, there's a much bigger issue, problem, but I don't think banning porn is the solution of that. I just think it should be better regulated and more conversations about just sex in general, whether you can't get hard, you struggle to stay hard, you come really quickly, or maybe you don't come at all. It's, should just be more of a conversation and less taboo, so but he'll become less embarrassed by talking about it.
- 1:07:46 – 1:14:49
What Has Bonnie Lost Through Sex Work?
- BBBonnie Blue
"Oh my God, like, what if the wife needs to buy some emergency shoes?" (laughs)
Episode duration: 2:13:39
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