The Next 36 Months Will Change Everything - Tony Robbins (4K)

Chris Williamson 0:00 Despite being just 4% of the global population, Americans made up nearly 50% of the world's new millionaires in 2025. You've written three books in this area. Why another one on finance? What, what hadn't you said already?

Tony Robbins 0:14 Good question. I, I never even write, wrote the first book. Uh, in fact, I hadn't written a book for almost 15 years. I don't enjoy writing books. I like the, the variety and the aliveness of interaction and what happens. Um, but when 2008 happened, I was really annoyed because I worked with Paul Tudor Jones, one of the greatest financial traders of history. I've coached him for almost 30 years. So I had some insights to what was going on. And at the end of it, I thought, "Somebody's gonna get punished. Something's gonna happen." 'Cause a small number of people basically almost destroyed the world economy. And what I saw was their reward or their punishment was we gave them more money. [chuckles] And so about 2010, '11, '12, I started saying, "Man, something's gotta happen here." And I was mad because it's like, right now the game seems like it's rigged, and the average person thinks that they can't win. And I wanna know, could they? And so since I've got access, I said, "I'm gonna interview 50 of the smartest financial investors in history, the most successful, the Ray Dalios, the Carl Icahns, the Warren Buffets, all of them, Paul Tudors, and I'm gonna find from them whether the game is really winnable still." And so I wrote this book, "Money Master the Game." I wanted to write a book that my billionaire clients would be blown away by, but I could also, someone just starting the journey would do it. And we were successful. Number one New York Times bestseller, really great. But then, you know, people are not prepared for what happens. And while I didn't know COVID was coming, anyone can anticipate the changes in the market. And so I wrote "Unshakeable" because I wanted people not to lose when the markets change. And people that applied that got tremendous value. But then a- along the way, so many peop- Americans are behind. Like, they're so far behind in terms of their investments, in terms of their, the retirements. And so how do you get there? Well, you gotta get better returns, but it usually requires bigger risks. And one of the people I became really good friends with was Ray Dalio, who's, you know, one of the greatest investors in history. They call him "The Da Vinci." And, um, and one of the days I met him, I was supposed to have a 30-minute interview, and four hours later when we left, [chuckles] that's part of how we became friends 'cause I studied everything about him. But one of the final questions I asked him was, "What's the single most important investment, you know, principle that you know of? If there was one principle to guide people, what would it be?" 'Cause I'd now, I gathered all these brilliant people, and I'd come down to, like, these core four things that everybody needs to do. Everybody needs to protect downside risk, and that's not what most people think about, right? The best investors on Earth are all about don't lose money, which is so counterintuitive, but they do it by asset allocation. They don't ever put all their eggs in one basket. They know how to allocate well, so when they lose, they can still win. They know if you lose 50%, you gotta make 100% t- return to get even. Most people don't do the math properly in their head. But the biggest thing I saw was asymmetrical risk reward. That when they went to risk a dollar, like Paul Tudor, his goal is, "If I think I'm gonna make an investment, I gotta believe I'm risking a dollar to make five. Now, if I'm wrong, I can risk another dollar, still make four." He could be wrong four out of five times and be in good shape, whereas the average person doesn't think that way. Uh, I met, uh, you know, some people that did some investments like Kyle Bass, who, uh, you know Kyle from, from Texas. Kyle's followed my work. He took $30 million and turned it into $2 billion in 2008. How do you do that in a year, in the worst year of economics? He saw real estate and saw everybody thinks it's gonna go up, and it's not. And so he risks basically 15 cents on every dollar. He could be wrong 15 times and still make money, and he made money. So I asked him at the time, this is for Ray Dalio, I said, "How do you teach somebody, you know, this idea of, you know, th- thinking that you're taking huge risks to get huge rewards is not how you win. It's dis- disproportionate. I need asymmetric risk reward. How do you explain that to somebody who doesn't understand?" He goes, "Well, Tony, it's interesting you say that. I wanna explain it to my kids." So he said, "I was trying to figure out how to teach it to them, so one day I asked a question, 'What is a riskless investment?'" And I said, "Riskless investment? Is it really such a thing?" He goes, "No, pe- most people don't ask that question, so they don't find the answer." He said, "There is one. Nickels." He said, "If you buy a nickel, you can never lose the money. It's always worth a nickel." But he said, "Let me explain to you how I taught my kids this. It costs nine cents for the American [chuckles] government to make a nickel. That's how we run our government." He said, "Pennies used to be full of copper, 95% copper, and then we turned it down to 2% copper, and those pennies from the past are worth twice as much money," right? He said, "It's gonna happen." He, and he said, "But also I can melt it down. The melt down value is worth 20% more than I'm buying it for." So he-- Or 36%, excuse me, more than I'm buying it for. He said, "So I could melt..." I said, "Well, you can't do that legally." He goes, "Well, that's true, but some money goes outside the country." He said, "But let me be clear. I called the Federal Reserve and said, 'How many nickels do you have?' And I bought all the nickels they would sell me." And he said he bought, like, 20 million nickels, whatever the number was. And he goes, "If I could push a button and put all my money in nickels, I'd do it tomorrow. I have a 36% return on day one. I'll have a virtually guaranteed 100% return at some point in the future 'cause you can't keep making things for nine cents that, that you're charging five cents for." And he said, "And I have no downside." He said, "So that's asymmetrical risk reward," right? So in that area, that's something that's hard to get, but I knew that was valuable. Then the third thing I found they all talked about is you gotta be tax efficient, right? Because that, it's, your net is based on taxes. And then the fourth is the one we all know, diversification. But diversifying against different assets, different asset classes, different timeframes, and different countries, different currencies. But Dalio said, when I asked him this question, he goes, "Tony, I have thought about this for the last 15 years, and I have w- now what I would tell you is the holy grail of investing," which is the title of our book. And he goes, "It's simply this. I found out that if you can find eight to 12 non-correlated investments and they're things you believe in, you reduce your risk by 80% and increase your upside." Now, when I heard this, I was like, "Wow It's hard to find eight to 12 uncorrelated investments in the world we're in today, right? Even stocks and bonds are not supposed to be correlated, but if you look at what happened in 2008, 2020, they do. They both go down, right? They, they correlate. And then your broker says, "I don't know what it is," right? Um, so he explained to me in more detail about that. But the simple understanding is you have to go to private equity, private credit, private real estate to have that diversification unless you're, you know, a trader, has sophistication synthesis that you can use, synthesized type of investments. And so that set me on looking at it. Then I was invited, um, to go t- uh, down to speak at the Alternative Investment Conference for JP Morgan. Gotta be a billionaire to get in there, right? I've been there two or three times now. And who speaks right before me is Ray Dalio, and they do this full interview with him, and at the last question, they ask him a very similar question. "What's the most important thing you've learned in 50 years of investing?" He says, "The Holy Grail." Everyone in the room's a billionaire plus. Nobody written notes the whole damn day. Everybody's head goes down, writes this down 'cause it's such a simple principle, but it's the core. So I started saying, "How do I get to that? How do I help the average person to get that?" 'Cause, you know, I've got a name. You've got a name. We have-- we all have access to a certain extent. Private equity is an extraordinary result, but here's what I found out. In the last 39 years, private equity has outproduced every stock market in the world for 39 straight years. Average private equity. Now, in this book, we interviewed 13 of the best in the world, right? Average is average 15.7% returns. The S&P 500 of those 39 years is 9%. 74% better per year compounded for 39 years. So if you put a million bucks in the S&P, you're pretty happy right now. You got just under 29 million, 28.7 million. If you put it in basic private equity, it's $293 million. The same money, same time, 10 times the return. So now the question is, how the hell do you get access? 'Cause there's a big difference between the big boys and the average boy, right? So, you know, again, if you're famous, you might get it. I got access. I know people. But the, the slice they give me wouldn't change my life, right? It's nothing really huge. And I was lamenting about this to a friend of mine who, who's-- used to be partners with Paul Tudor Jones. He's a really great guy, and I helped him a lot. He said, "Tony, I'm gonna make your day. I'm gonna tell you where I put most of my money, and I'm gonna change your life." He said, "You've done so much for me. It's my time to do for you." I said, "Really?" I'm leaning forward. And this is a very sophisticated guy. He goes, "There's a company that can allow you to come in and not just try to get a little piece of these investments, but you become an owner, a general partner in these firms. Not a limited partner. You make the two and 20. You're on every single asset that they have, every single investment they have." I said, "Really?" I said, "Where's this firm?" And I thought he was gonna say, you know, New York, Connecticut, London, Singapore. He goes, "They're in Houston." [chuckles] I said, "Houston?" He goes, "Yeah, they're away from the beaten path, and they do this better than anybody I've ever seen." He said, "They have the majority of my money. You gotta go meet them." That's how I met my co-author here, Christopher, because I went and sat down. It turned out Christopher had been through my program 25 years ago, started his business based on it. He has-- I gotta brag on him a moment. He has a 96% profit ratio f- on the investments he's made for 25 straight years. We joined forces about five years ago. He's at about 2.7 billion, and we've grown it to 13 billion just in the last four and a half, five years. And so I got-- I became an investor initially, then I became an, an owner of the company, partner in the company, and we've grown the company to have that kind of impact, and it's because we're able to bring people general partnerships. It's like, do you wanna own the racehorse or you wanna own the race track? That's what the opportunity is. And the richest people in the world, if you look at the Forbes 400, are all people that are in private equity. This is where the largest... It's not real estate. It's not technology. Look at the list, and you'll see who they are. There's a reason. This is one of the most unique opportunities. And now the reason we wrote the book is the average American has not had access. If you look at the ultra high net worth people, 52% of their money is in private equity, private credit. Hmm. It's private. Only 29% in the public markets. There used to be 8,000 companies 30 years ago. Now there's only 4,000 in the public markets. 87% of all companies are private today. 100 million to 3 billion, there's 200,000 of them, and that's a whole lot more to be able to do. Now, the old idea of private equity is you go in, you take over the company, and you sell everything off. It's not like that today. It's about added value. They have to be. So it's a new industry in the way it's been operating, and it's producing results unlike anything else. You can't put all your money because you need liquidity, and there are even some answers to that today. But we went all in in figuring out how to help people to be able to grow at a much higher rate so they can get to their goals, but with even less risk if they manage it effectively.

Chris Williamson 10:45 Do you think ordinary people are making a mistake by putting all of their money into the S&P then? This is kind of old school wisdom, dollar cost average in, but it sounds like there's other returns to be made.

Christopher Zook 10:56 You know, it, it's so funny. I had a conversation with somebody literally a couple of months ago, and they say, "You know, Christopher, I understand this diversification thing, but I really don't need that. I own, like, six out of the seven of the Magnificent Seven."

Tony Robbins 11:05 [laughs]

Christopher Zook 11:06 I'm like, "Dude, you are not diversified." They all move together. If one is zigging, the other is zigging as well. So they all get hit together. People don't think back to where, of the Magnificent Seven, literally in 2002, during the sell-off that we had there, that group of stocks dropped by almost 50% in less than a year. So people might want that upside, but they have to be able to tolerate the downside. So do I think it's a mistake to put money in the S&P? No, but it can't be everything.

Chris Williamson 11:33 Hmm.

Christopher Zook 11:33 They need to have diversification of other things that will zig and zag at different times, which is the whole point of The Holy Grail Of Investing, is if you have certain things that are making money when others are losing money... And I know it's a silly example, but for everybody who's a golfer out there, they'll get it, right? If you stock a golf shop and all you sell in there is sunscreen, well, on sunny days you're gonna sell a lot of sunscreen. If all you sell is umbrellas, well, then on rainy days you're gonna sell a lot of umbrellas. But the key is to have both, so on rainy days and sunny days, you're still making money. And that has been so hard. Here's another fun statistic. In 2005, just literally 21 years ago, if you had an average allocation that looked like most of the brokerage accounts, including alternatives, your average correlation was about 0.15, which meant they correlated about 15% with each other. 85% they were moving different directions.

Chris Williamson 12:24 Mm-hmm.

Christopher Zook 12:25 Today, literally with no change in that asset allocation, it is 82% correlation

Chris Williamson 12:31 Globalization's a hell of a drug, man

Christopher Zook 12:33 It is, but it's also indexation

Chris Williamson 12:35 Mm

Christopher Zook 12:35 Because if everybody's buying the same stocks, just all in or all out every single day, they tend to all move together

Chris Williamson 12:41 ETFs don't discriminate, yeah

Christopher Zook 12:42 No, they don't

Chris Williamson 12:43 Yeah

Christopher Zook 12:43 And what happens is in stressful environments, it actually gets worse to where it goes all the way up to about an 89% correlation when you have a down market because what happens? Everybody-

Chris Williamson 12:54 Consolidate

Christopher Zook 12:54 ... indiscriminately sells everything at the same time

Chris Williamson 12:56 Yeah

Christopher Zook 12:57 And that means they're getting hit from all sides, which is why 2020 and the early t- part of that year was so tough for people. In '21, '22, everything basically got hammered

Chris Williamson 13:07 Hmm

Tony Robbins 13:08 And think about it right now, the Magnificent Seven are 32%

Chris Williamson 13:10 Can you explain the Magnificent Seven for people that don't know what that is?

Christopher Zook 13:13 Ab- absolutely. So Magnificent Seven is basically the, the, the big names that people know, the Nvidias, the Netflix, the Facebooks, or Meta now, Google, Amazon, et cetera. Those are the m- Microsoft's included in that. That's the Magnificent Seven. And to what Tony was about to say, okay, right now that Mag Seven is 38% of the S&P 500.

Tony Robbins 13:33 Well, it's actually under 32 today.

Christopher Zook 13:35 That- that's right

Tony Robbins 13:35 As of today. [laughs]

Christopher Zook 13:36 It pull- it pull- it pulled back quite a bit here lately

Tony Robbins 13:38 [laughs]

Chris Williamson 13:38 Yeah

Christopher Zook 13:38 And so what that means-

Tony Robbins 13:39 But-

Christopher Zook 13:39 ... is 493 stocks make up the other 68%, and so seven make up 32%.

Tony Robbins 13:46 And the highest percentage in history before this has been 17% of any group of companies.

Christopher Zook 13:52 Mm-hmm.

Tony Robbins 13:53 So it's twice what, more than twice what it's ever been.

Chris Williamson 13:55 So it's a consolidation of risk even inside of the S&P 500, which is supposed to be spread across 500 companies.

Tony Robbins 14:02 Yes.

Christopher Zook 14:02 Completely, and very volatile companies to, uh, to as well.

Tony Robbins 14:06 But, but I want you to know they're complementary. We, we have things in the S&P as well, but you gotta have-- you've got to spread your risk. You can't do it all. And when you look at ultra-- if you look at pension funds, you look at, you know, university funds, if you look at what's happening with, uh, high net worth people, the majority of their investments are in private equity because that's where they're getting the returns. You can't-- They have to be able to provide for the future and provide an income for the future, and so that's where they are. So y- and there just isn't more, there's not enough volume.

Chris Williamson 14:33 Hmm.

Tony Robbins 14:33 Think about it. To go from 8,000 30 years ago to 4,000 stocks roughly, a little less than that actually now, in the public markets, you've got more dollars chasing a smaller number of items, and you know what that creates.

Chris Williamson 14:44 Mm-hmm.

Tony Robbins 14:44 It creates inflation that isn't necessarily based on value.

Chris Williamson 14:47 Okay, lots of stats, lots of-

Tony Robbins 14:50 Mm

Chris Williamson 14:50 ... complex numbers to be able to understand here. Imagine that somebody doesn't understand investing, doesn't know where to start. How do you explain what diversification should look like just from first principles and, and where should that go?

Christopher Zook 15:00 So what I always try to tell people is exactly like the business example. No single company really wants to sell one thing. So you want, in your portfolio, you want things that are going to do well in lots of different environments, good economies, bad economies, high inflation, low inflation, high interest rates, low interest rates. In order to accomplish that, you have to diversify across lots of different asset classes. And most people hear private investments, and they get very intimidated by that because you're like, "I don't know what a private investment is." Well, most people are in the private markets. They don't really realize it because they own a home. Anybody who owns a home owns a private asset. It's not priced every single day in the newspaper. You can't look it up online to see exactly what it's worth. You can get a guide, but you never know for sure what it's worth until you sell it. Well, that's a private asset. The same with the dry cleaner on the corner or the Subway sandwich shop that they might go shop in. Those are all private businesses. And obviously anyone who owns those is going to make money or lose money based on the success of that particular business, not because of the fact that the Fed raises interest rates or lowers interest rates or all the other complex things they try to intimidate people or tend to intimidate people. So getting people to understand it's just simply good diversification, good business practice to not have all your revenue streams tied up in one single product.

Chris Williamson 16:17 Mm-hmm.

Christopher Zook 16:17 That's true also for your investments. Let your return streams come from lots of different sources.

Tony Robbins 16:23 And here's the piece that, that's different today, and it's about to change 'cause we're interviewing, uh, Secretary of Labor S- Sundaling right after this interview. He's coming into the house. There are new laws. One of the reasons we wrote the book is it's great to know this, but most people can never have access. So what good is it?

Chris Williamson 16:37 Mm-hmm.

Tony Robbins 16:38 So what's happened though is the Congress and the Senate actually passed a law initially, went through the Congress, not yet the Senate, that said that, "Look, you should not be barred from having these types of investments because you're not an accredited investor with a million dollar net worth or, you know, or a $5 million net worth, right, as a qualified purchaser." The best investments have been reserved for people with the most money. It's completely unfair. Now, the idea is, well, we're protecting them from things that are unsophisticated. Well, think about it. A lot of great businesspeople are not great investors, or a lot of people inherit money. They're not great investors, but they get to go there. So what they came up with is we're gonna create a set of questions so you can educate yourself, and if you can answer these, you're qualified. You don't have to have an economic qualification. You just have to understand what you're doing, which makes so much more sense.

Chris Williamson 17:23 Hmm.

Tony Robbins 17:24 But even since then, there's some new laws that are coming out, and maybe you can address them, that are happening. They are right now being reviewed as we speak.

Chris Williamson 17:29 Mm-hmm.

Tony Robbins 17:29 That's what we're having the interview with later with, uh, Secretary of Labor Sundaling.

Christopher Zook 17:33 So two things. Number one is last June, a year ago June, the Securities and Exchange Commission, the SEC, just literally with the stroke of a pen said people do not have to be an accredited investor anymore to invest in certain types of funds which own alternative assets, funds that own things like the Los Angeles Lakers that just sold or the Golden State Warriors or, you know, Formula 1 teams, et cetera. SpaceX before it was an IPO, right? Those kinds of funds were never available to investors unless they were already wealthy. So now anyone in the world literally for a $2,500 minimum can invest in those funds. That literally changed last June, and most people don't know that. The second thing that Tony's referring to is the Labor Department has put forth a rule that would enable it to be much easier for 401 [k] plans to allow alternative investments to be available to every single person who has a 401 [k] or a 403 [b] or any kind of a retirement account. That is a total game changer for the industry to be able to allow people for the first time to be able to invest in so much of the economy that they've been prohibited from before.

Tony Robbins 18:41 Unless they're wealthy

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Chris Williamson 19:42 Can you-- Let's get specific. What are some of the investment opportunities, asset classes that people don't think about? Everybody understands-

Tony Robbins 19:50 Well, we-

Chris Williamson 19:50 And you guys agree. S&P, that's probably a good place to have some-

Tony Robbins 19:53 Yeah

Chris Williamson 19:53 ... et cetera, et cetera, right? We can tick away with that. What are the more, uh, exotic-

Tony Robbins 19:58 Well, I, I'll give you one that's fun and, and it's, it's not exotic 'cause everybody knows about it, but they think it's probably impossible: sports, as you just related. Sports are an uncorrelated investment. They have nothing to do with whether the market's going up or down, what's happening with interest rates. In the last 10 years they've had an 18% compounded return. But if you look up through history, through wars, World War I, World War II, sports have always done well and they're non-correlated. So you wanna find assets-

Chris Williamson 20:23 So sports are recession-proof?

Tony Robbins 20:24 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 20:25 They are?

Tony Robbins 20:25 And you know why? Today they don't just sell hot dogs. Which by the way, they have a unique relationship. They have a monopoly in their cities, a legal monopoly. No one else can go compete with them.

Chris Williamson 20:36 Mm-hmm.

Tony Robbins 20:36 And, and by the way, their fans are called fanatics. That, what's where the fan comes from. They're multi-generational and they come and they-- when the, um, when inflation goes up they charge more for hot dogs, as we all know, and everything else you can imagine. But now they don't just sell tickets and hot dogs. Today these are modern media organizations. So we own a piece, I own a piece of s- I took me, what, 20 years of my life to be able to own a sports team and to qualify it and go through-- Th- they had a microscope to you. I helped us start the, the, uh, the soccer team that we have, you know, in, in Los Angeles, the LA Football Club. And, uh, put the whole thing, invested, went through the whole nine yards. But then the rules changed and they made it so certain firms were able to make investments directly into these firms. And now they did it in Major League Baseball, they did it in the NBA, they did it in Major League Hockey, and now the NFL has just done it. And the returns are unbelievable. So I'll just give you an example. We have a piece of the Dodgers, own a piece of the Red Sox, we own a piece of the Lakers. [chuckles] Excuse me, Lakers, the, the Golden State Warriors. All of these firms have grown. So Peter Guber, my, my-- one of my partners in business, we do the LAFC together, he was one of the guys that bought the Dodgers. In 2012 he paid $2.2 billion for the Dodgers. Every article said, "He's insane. These people are never gonna make money. This is the most ever paid for a sports team." Now Peter's my partner and it's like, "Peter, I know you're no dummy. [chuckles] Are w- we-- are we doing the right thing here?" He goes, "Tony, y- you can trust me on this. You know me well enough." But he said, "I'm not even gonna tell you. I'll make an announcement the next week and then you come over and we'll have a little party together." So now here's what you need to understand. When you own a sports team, if it's like the NBA, you're one thirty-second of the league. You have 32 teams. Or the NFL. NFL's an even better example. All the national and international advertising, you get one thirty-second of. So if you own an NFL team you get a $400 million check to start the season. That's your piece. But you also own your local TV advertising yourself. So Peter bought them for $2.2 billion and then announced he just sold the rights for local television rights for $7 billion and made $5 billion in a day, right? So he's done quite well in this area, and I've done quite well with him in this area. [chuckles] Um, you know, today the-- he, he took on the Golden State Warriors. They were the worst placed team. They had paid only $450 million for it. Now they're the second highest valued sports franchise in the world behind the Yankees to give-- no, excuse me, behind the Dallas Cowboys at this point, right? $11 billion that he's built it to. So these are enterprises today that are not just selling sports. They're every aspect what you imagine, and they are an incredible return and they have nothing to do with what happens in the stock market.

Chris Williamson 23:11 Sounds great. How do I invest?

Christopher Zook 23:13 There's lots of different ways that somebody can do it if they have the right knowledge and the right information. But because of the rule changes, now there are funds that are available literally that people can get into for 2,500 bucks and own a piece of all of those firms.

Tony Robbins 23:26 This just got, uh-- Actually we just got approved for this to give you a sense.

Christopher Zook 23:29 Yeah, I mean, so that was-

Tony Robbins 23:30 They're the first in the world

Christopher Zook 23:30 ... that, so that was June of '25 was the first time that the rules changed to allow everyday investors to be able to do it. But so collectively as a firm, you know, we have exposure over 30 different professional sports franchises.

Chris Williamson 23:41 Mm-hmm.

Christopher Zook 23:41 And we have ways that every single investor in the world can invest with us and own a piece of all of those firms, right? So-

Tony Robbins 23:47 Diversified so it's not just one team.

Christopher Zook 23:49 That's right. Across-

Chris Williamson 23:49 Oh, so you've made a index fund or an ETF of a variety of sports teams?

Christopher Zook 23:55 You know, I would love to say that it's better than that, right? And I believe it is because it's not just beta, it's not just the market itself or the index fund, but actually really, really curated specific teams and specific areas that have specific opportunities for growth that we believe we bought at very attractive prices.

Chris Williamson 24:11 What's the category of firm that has access to this? Someone wants to go onto the internet right now and say, "Uh, this sounds great. I love sports. I wanna get in-- Uh, I need to diversify." Like what, what do they put into the internet?

Christopher Zook 24:21 They just put in cazinvestments.com.

Tony Robbins 24:23 [laughs]

Chris Williamson 24:23 Okay.

Christopher Zook 24:24 That's, that's, that's what they would do.

Chris Williamson 24:25 Okay.

Christopher Zook 24:25 That's the easiest way. But I mean, there's very few firms that are permitted to be able to invest in multiple teams in the same league, and that's what the rule changes were from 2019 to 2024 for somebody to be able to do that. It wasn't e-- It didn't exist before 2019. So we were very early in that, in that theme.

Chris Williamson 24:45 Mm.

Christopher Zook 24:45 And for-- One, one of the things I think would be really helpful for the audience, because a lot of people are like, "Okay, sports teams are trophy assets and people just-- rich people wanna own it because it's a cool thing to own."

Chris Williamson 24:53 Mm.

Christopher Zook 24:54 It is a cool thing to own, but it's about cord cutting. It's about people getting their content differently. Watching your podcast is not something that really existed 20 years ago. So in 2005, 14 of the top 100 watched programs that were live in the United States were sports. 14 out of 100. In 2025, 96 of the top 100 watched live programs were sports. Why? Who watches a live program when you can go on Netflix or Amazon or any other-

Tony Robbins 25:24 Hmm

Christopher Zook 25:24 ... and not have to watch commercials? So you're gonna watch the World Cup-

Tony Robbins 25:27 Sports teams and Love Island fans. That's, that's all that's left

Christopher Zook 25:29 Oh, absolutely. I mean, we own a, you know, and I- w- along with our partners, we own a stake in Liverpool, and we own a piece of Paris Saint-Germain.

Tony Robbins 25:34 I'm sorry to hear that. [laughs]

Christopher Zook 25:34 Yeah, well, you know, I figured you might because of where you're from. But all the... And several others that you might be more familiar with. But the opportunity to be able to own those dominant franchises around the world in all different types of sports-

Tony Robbins 25:48 Hmm

Christopher Zook 25:48 ... is something that most people didn't ever think of, and that was your question.

Tony Robbins 25:51 Mm-hmm.

Christopher Zook 25:51 What do people not think of? The other thing they don't think about is early stages of venture capital, because like, "Well, I can't get access to it."

Tony Robbins 25:58 Hmm.

Christopher Zook 25:58 You know, Saronic got great attention earlier this, this, this summer because they rescued those two pilots that were shot down in the Strait of Hormuz.

Tony Robbins 26:06 Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah.

Christopher Zook 26:06 The helicopter pilots.

Tony Robbins 26:07 Mm-hmm.

Christopher Zook 26:07 It was an autonomous boat made by a company in Austin, right? That literally went out there and saved these two people with no other people being put at risk. That didn't exist a couple of years ago, but that is an example of a company that actually is available to everybody in the world now at a $2,500 minimum if they know where to go, and obviously that's a big part of what we wanted to write the book for, to be able to help people understand these opportunities do exist. And they've gotta do their own homework, and they've gotta make sure that they're comfortable with it, but ultimately, that's what something... That's something that people really just were never able to do.

Tony Robbins 26:41 Hmm.

Christopher Zook 26:41 And now the world has changed, and they have the ability to adapt with it and get exposure that they couldn't before.

Tony Robbins 26:47 And, and at these final pieces that Sonolink's working on, uh, they're, they've had the final c- con- comment period, so shortly there'll be a final decision, but that means people could put it in their 401 [k] as well. So now it's tax advantaged on top of everything else that you're talking about here.

Christopher Zook 27:00 Hmm.

Tony Robbins 27:00 But there, you know, the world has changed. Think about what the war has happened at, in the Ukraine, and how that's changed the world. We no longer can start sending these multi-million dollar missiles to take out these crappy little drones. It's just, it's, it's, it's a system that doesn't work, and so now there's all these private companies that are gearing up to take on this. And now, you know, the G7 and, and this group has gone in, and they're having to put 5% of their money in. They're almost doubling what they're spending.

Christopher Zook 27:26 Hmm.

Tony Robbins 27:27 So you're talking about literally a level of spending that's going into the military side, but it's now companies that are based on technology who can come and, and do things at scale that are-

Christopher Zook 27:37 Guys like Andrew Brill.

Tony Robbins 27:38 Yes, exactly. Those are the ones that we've invested in, right?

Christopher Zook 27:40 Yep.

Tony Robbins 27:40 And so we have access to those. So those are all ag- against ways to diversify so they have different asset classes, right?

Christopher Zook 27:46 Mm-hmm.

Tony Robbins 27:47 Think about space and military. These are gonna grow. Unfortunately, we're gonna need them to grow geo- geometrically as time goes on.

Christopher Zook 27:53 I'm happy about space. Space good, military less so.

Tony Robbins 27:55 I love space. The military and us, but we gotta protect ourselves, right?

Christopher Zook 27:58 Yeah.

Tony Robbins 27:58 So it's a combination of the two.

Christopher Zook 28:00 And that's, that's something to where literally the, the, the headline was, "You gotta stop throwing Ferraris at Frisbees."

Tony Robbins 28:05 Yeah.

Christopher Zook 28:05 Okay?

Tony Robbins 28:06 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Christopher Zook 28:06 You know, you can't use a Tomahawk missile to shoot down a $30,000 drone, so you have to come up with other ways to protect your c- your people and to be able to protect your country. And then space is just such... It truly is the, no pun intended, the new frontier. And to be able to do what we're doing in space and what SpaceX has done to be able to open up the commercialization of space to such a dramatic effect, to be able to deliver things that were never able to be done before to places that were never able to be done before. There's another company, as an example, uh, called Armada. They literally have a box. It looks like a rail car. They can drop that in the middle of nowhere Africa, and because of Starlink, they can have a completely fully operational data center as long as they have power and access to the sky.

Tony Robbins 28:48 I saw a video of this. It's like a, a industrial shipping container-

Christopher Zook 28:52 Yeah

Tony Robbins 28:52 ... thing.

Christopher Zook 28:53 Yeah.

Tony Robbins 28:53 Yeah, I've, I've seen this before.

Christopher Zook 28:54 So we were-

Tony Robbins 28:54 That's wild

Christopher Zook 28:55 ... very early investors in the company because what it did, it's, it's solving a huge need.

Tony Robbins 29:00 Yeah.

Christopher Zook 29:00 What they refer to as being on the edge, to where, you know, things in the middle of Alaska or things on a, on a ship in the middle of the ocean.

Tony Robbins 29:07 Mm-hmm.

Christopher Zook 29:07 Right? You're not gonna be able to have a data center there that's secure. So we have one of the gentlemen that works for us, he's a former Green Beret, right? He can't tell the exact story, for obvious reasons, but literally they were in a jungle somewhere south of, you know, in South America, and literally they were able to use an Armada box connected to a local natural gas facility, connected to Starlink, and save their butts.

Tony Robbins 29:30 Hmm.

Christopher Zook 29:30 Right? He got a chance to meet the CEO, and he said, "You saved my life. Thank you." And he's like, "I didn't do th-" "No, your business saved my life." That's the kind of use case. Or Icon, another Austin-based company-

Tony Robbins 29:41 Oh, Icon's awesome

Christopher Zook 29:42 ... that you may know. Jason Ballard and his team at Icon are, they do the 3D-printed homes, okay?

Tony Robbins 29:47 Yes, I have seen this as well.

Christopher Zook 29:48 Okay. So they are literally able to print homes or now barrack or any other kind of industrial facility-

Tony Robbins 29:54 Hmm

Christopher Zook 29:55 ... two stories, and they can do it faster and cheaper than you could ever do it with physical labor. And obviously it's concrete, so it's very durable and it's very sustainable.

Tony Robbins 30:04 Well, I mean, look, as-

Christopher Zook 30:04 Those are businesses are crazy opportunities

Tony Robbins 30:06 ... coming from, coming from the UK, America's a fantastic country, but you guys insist on making your houses out of wood. It's fucking wood.

Christopher Zook 30:13 [laughs]

Tony Robbins 30:13 Everything's made out of wood. I'm like, "Build it out of brick." This is ancient technology that we're doing here. Some thatched roof that you've got. Tell you what, I had a, I had David Friedberg on the show a couple of months ago.

Christopher Zook 30:22 Yes.

Tony Robbins 30:23 He's so great.

Christopher Zook 30:23 Yeah.

Tony Robbins 30:23 And he was explaining to me, talking about crazy new technologies.

Christopher Zook 30:26 Mm-hmm.

Tony Robbins 30:26 He was explaining to me one of the reasons that the moon is gonna be incredibly important. It means that once you've got something there and you can von Neumann probe, use the materials on the moon to make stuff that you send from the moon, because the launch velocity that you need to get off of there is, is, is way lower, right? That was cool. But he explained to me how the mass ejectors on the moon work. So I was thinking you've got a small factory that finds materials, turns it into kind of a 3D printing style thing, and then from there you send out into the rest of the solar system and the galaxy what it is that you need. But he explained to me the way that you get it off, you need about four kilometers or so of-

Chris Williamson 31:03 ... track, and you use a mag-lev-

Tony Robbins 31:06 Right

Chris Williamson 31:06 ... thing to send it.

Tony Robbins 31:07 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 31:07 But what was so fucking cool, this is my favorite thing. Two things. First off, the gravity on the moon is so low that you don't actually need to send something up. If you send it fast enough flat, it reaches escape velocity just like throwing a ball really, really hard and it just gets out of... That was the first thing. The second thing is that you use the orbit of the moon to aim. So you're waiting, you're waiting, boom, and you send it, and it's like, "Oh, I'm just gonna use the way that the moon rotates to, like, fire it in the direction it needs." I was like, "This is the coolest shit I've ever heard." I thought it was so fucking cool.

Tony Robbins 31:41 Well, and that's how, and by the way, ICON is building-

Christopher Zook 31:43 Yeah, exactly

Tony Robbins 31:43 ... out of the materials on the moon, they're building the facilities for them there. They- they've got a practice facility that they've been building right now.

Christopher Zook 31:49 So NASA- NASA has- has, uh, hired them to effectively make this possible. And so those are the kinds of things. We were seed investors in the company of ICON. We've watched it grow up. That's an example of things that people would never think to invest in.

Chris Williamson 32:01 Hmm.

Christopher Zook 32:02 They would just observe, like, "Oh, that's cool." No, this is actually something you can now buy.

Chris Williamson 32:04 But yeah, you need to be David Friedman to know that it's happening.

Christopher Zook 32:06 That's right.

Chris Williamson 32:07 Yeah.

Christopher Zook 32:07 But you don't anymore.

Chris Williamson 32:08 Yeah.

Christopher Zook 32:08 It's available to everybody in the world, literally at 2,500

Christopher Zook 32:11 bucks.

Chris Williamson 32:11 What about the other side of this? What is an investment that maybe millions of Americans currently believe is safe or reliable, but is actually riskier than they think it is?

Christopher Zook 32:22 It's hard because everything has its purpose, right?

Chris Williamson 32:25 Hmm.

Christopher Zook 32:25 Some investments should lo- lose money 90% of the time, but 10% of the time they make a lot of money, and that gives you negative correlation or things moving opposite direction.

Chris Williamson 32:33 Hmm.

Christopher Zook 32:34 So that doesn't mean anything is bad. I mean, somebody could say that Bitcoin is a bad investment. It could be a phenomenal investment. It's totally great.

Chris Williamson 32:40 It can be higher risk though, right?

Christopher Zook 32:41 Oh, totally.

Tony Robbins 32:41 Higher risk.

Chris Williamson 32:41 Something that's higher risk than people anticipate.

Christopher Zook 32:43 So, and that's-

Chris Williamson 32:44 What would you put in that category?

Christopher Zook 32:45 Well, see, there's so much that fits into that category. So many people don't understand that, you know, the risk level is what we refer to statistically as volatility, all right? Standard deviation. What I put it is your gut. How much does your gut have the ability to tolerate? If you can't see it turn into 50 cents overnight-

Chris Williamson 33:03 Hmm

Christopher Zook 33:03 ... you don't belong in it.

Chris Williamson 33:04 Mm-hmm.

Christopher Zook 33:05 So you gotta make sure that whatever it is you own is not going to create the panic that you get out of it, and then you dramatically underperform the investment itself because you can't stay in the seat, right?

Chris Williamson 33:16 Mm-hmm.

Christopher Zook 33:16 That's one of the reasons why leverage is so dangerous for most people, is leverage gets them blown out with a margin call because the fact that they don't have staying power.

Chris Williamson 33:25 Mm-hmm.

Christopher Zook 33:25 Staying power can be economic, and it can be gut.

Chris Williamson 33:28 Hmm.

Christopher Zook 33:28 And the vast majority of investors don't have near as tough, uh, tough a gut as they think they do.

Chris Williamson 33:32 Or Citadel comes along and eats you alive.

Christopher Zook 33:33 That's correct.

Tony Robbins 33:34 [laughs]

Christopher Zook 33:35 And that's exactly what happens, and that's what makes a market.

Chris Williamson 33:37 Sorry, it's too soon.

Christopher Zook 33:38 No, no.

Chris Williamson 33:38 Yeah.

Christopher Zook 33:38 It's- it's okay. It's just the reality of the world, and obviously good for Citadel, not great for the other party. But that's what most people have to do is not over-concentrate.

Chris Williamson 33:47 Hmm.

Tony Robbins 33:48 And- and like Bitcoin is a perfect example. Young people go for Bitcoin like crazy, and the idea was it was gonna protect us in, you know, in inflationary areas. But you see what happens. And when all of a sudden the tech investors lost a lot of money, guess what? They all sold their Bitcoin to cover themselves, right? So they're correlated still, and so it's a- a lack of understanding. I'll tell you what's more scary. I just read a statistic the other day that Generation Z and Millennials, a combination of the two, 52% of them in the last year have taken money that they would have used investment and put into sports betting, and that 26% think that sports betting is their way to build their financial future.

Chris Williamson 34:25 As two financial experts, are you telling me that's not the truth?

Christopher Zook 34:28 Definitely not.

Tony Robbins 34:29 [laughs]

Christopher Zook 34:30 Hell no. Bad idea.

Chris Williamson 34:32 Come on.

Christopher Zook 34:33 Now, it may be good for a while, but I wouldn't plan on it for your retirement.

Tony Robbins 34:36 That's called luck, right? [laughs] You're just praying for luck in that situation.

Chris Williamson 34:39 Yeah, but who wants to invest in the sports team themselves? I want to invest in whether or not this guy's gonna touch gloves with the goalkeeper before he turns the corner.

Tony Robbins 34:45 [laughs] That's right.

Christopher Zook 34:46 Yeah.

Tony Robbins 34:46 Let me, let me invest in the horse and not own the racetrack. That's the opposite mindset. That's-

Chris Williamson 34:50 Yeah, yeah

Tony Robbins 34:50 ... you want a billionaire mindset, you want to own the racetrack.

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Chris Williamson 35:47 Talking about the psychology, I think this is, this is a- an area I really want to talk about. Is there a personality type that shouldn't be an active investor? Is there a type of person who just isn't built to be in the market at all? Or how would you advise people who are significantly more risk-averse to put up with the bad days, to put up with that time?

Christopher Zook 36:09 Th- th- it's such a beautiful thing because they don't ever have to have a bad day if they're properly diversified.

Tony Robbins 36:13 Yeah. That's the whole point.

Christopher Zook 36:14 The most people are like, "Okay, I'm gonna put, you know, the old 60/40, right? 60% stocks, 40% bonds." For decades, that worked until it didn't, and then all of a sudden people realized that they actually were more correlated, and they didn't make money on their bonds, and they got hammered on their stocks. It doesn't mean there's not a place for bonds, and it doesn't mean there's not a place for stocks, but they need to build it out with the rest of it. So the more risk-averse somebody is, the more diversified they should be.

Chris Williamson 36:39 Hmm.

Christopher Zook 36:39 If somebody's gonna go out and, and by the way, this is the biggest mistake that I see people make every single day, and I've seen it for 35 years of my career. People make investment decisions based on dollars. That is crazy. No professional investor does that. It has to be on percentages. So a million-dollar investment sounds like a lot of money, and it is, unless you're worth $100 million, in which case it's just 1%.

Chris Williamson 37:01 Hmm.

Christopher Zook 37:01 So $10,000 or a million dollars, if it's 1%, it's 1%. And somebody says, "I'm gonna go put 50% of my money into this," they'd go, "That's way too much. That's risky Or if they're gonna say, "I'm gonna go put 50 grand in it," well now all of a sudden they go, "That's not that much money." Well, if you only got 100 grand, it's a lot. So the more that they diversify, and properly diversify across all of their assets, and percentages are properly weighted, they don't have to worry about volatility because that's the whole point of the Holy Grail of Investing is just by adding eight to 12 different non-correlated investments, you can reduce your risk by 80%. 80% volatility-

Tony Robbins 37:37 Yeah, there's no other way to do it.

Christopher Zook 37:38 80% reduction in risk, and you can usually get still a, the same return or even a better rate of return.

Chris Williamson 37:44 Well, I think what is as impressive maybe as getting, uh, uh, reducing your, your downside risk is what it does to the level of stress that you've got.

Tony Robbins 37:54 Yes.

Christopher Zook 37:54 Co- totally. Something's working. How many people get stressed when something is working?

Tony Robbins 37:59 And the, and the loss, the [laughs] , the upside joy versus the, all the studies on psychology versus the feelings of loss-

Chris Williamson 38:05 Mm

Tony Robbins 38:05 ... they don't compare. The loss, it, people stay with much longer. I think one of the most important things is if people can get in a position where they have this kind of diversification, and if they're in things like private equity, the great thing about private equity is not only is it outproducing every market in the world for 39 straight years, but also its drops are shorter, and they don't have to do it. Think about it. When the market drops, you're in, you're in the general market, the open market, you, all those prices go. If you're private equity, you hang onto what you got. You don't sell it.

Chris Williamson 38:33 Mm.

Tony Robbins 38:33 Right? And you buy things during that time.

Chris Williamson 38:35 Mm.

Tony Robbins 38:35 So that's how they're making money. Think about it. They're not making money just hoping they're gonna get the right price right now. They're buying something at the best price they can, a business, and they figure out how to improve it. They're bringing in a new CEO. They're bringing in AI. They're bringing in a new manager team. They're putting in new marketing, and they build that company up, and then they sell that for a multiple, either taking it public or very often to another private company. So they have a... I love that type of investing 'cause it's how I made all my money as a human in my businesses. You know, I have [laughs] now 121 companies. We do $22 billion in business, just my group together. And all of those companies, we've done well because we've found a way to add more value in that marketplace. We figured out what to do that no one else is doing more, better, and we found that edge, and then the business grows geometrically. That's how these guys invest. It's not like the old days where they find something, cut it all up, and sell off its pieces. That was the orig- original kind of private equity. Those days are over.

Chris Williamson 39:25 Mm.

Tony Robbins 39:25 And now they gotta put their own money in. That's one of the reasons that we have the opportunities that we do to be able to be investors as, as general partners, 'cause since 2008 when everything dropped, Bain had to prove to everybody, "Hey, it's worth doing." They said, "Okay, we're gonna put our money in," as we've done in ours. You might give them a sense about that.

Christopher Zook 39:43 So, like, Bain was the first one that really did a very large GP commit, okay? That means the general partner who manages the fund puts in a bunch of their own money to show alignment with the other investors in the fund.

Chris Williamson 39:54 Skin in the game.

Christopher Zook 39:54 Skin in the game. Okay? So they literally, coming out of the global financial crisis, everybody's like, "Eh, I'm not sure what I wanna invest in." So Bain said, "Okay, we're gonna, among our partners, we're gonna put a billion dollars into our own fund." Well, that got everybody's attention, like, "Oh, well, I guess you're aligned with us," and so that gave people comfort and confidence. That's very much the standard. Now, typically, 2 to 5% of all of the money in a fund is put up by the people managing that fund of their own capital, so that way there is that alignment. And so as you think about a firm growing from a billion dollar fund to a $5 billion fund to a $10 billion fund, they've gotta have very significant $200 to $500 million of their own money to put into that fund. But they may not have harvested their billion and their $5 billion fund yet.

Chris Williamson 40:39 Mm.

Christopher Zook 40:39 So they will sell a stake to firms like ours, where we have the ability to then provide them with the balance sheet that they need to go raise bigger funds, show more alignment, and they obviously have to sell a piece of their company to us to be able to do that. But if they sell 12% of their company, they still own 88. So everybody wins from that growth that comes from that capital

Christopher Zook 41:00 infusion.

Chris Williamson 41:00 Just sitting on the, on the psychology piece for, for another minute, scarcity mindset, abundance mindset, when it comes to the way that people see their financial future, how does... or how do you guys see a scarcity mindset show up in someone's investment decisions?

Tony Robbins 41:16 Well, when I was interviewing, uh, and I interviewed 50 of the, the greatest investors of all time, but I also interviewed Mary Callahan Erdoes from JPMorgan, who basically oversees $2.2 trillion in investments. And in everybody's case, I asked them, you know, "What's the biggest advantage?" They all talked about asset allocation. Every single investor talked about it. And she said, "Tony, the way I look at it is if I get somebody that's super risk-averse, I look at it, my, my part- partners should think I'm crazy." Goes, "I'll put them in treasuries because my goal is to make sure they get what they want emotionally as well as financially. If it takes them longer, that's okay. Some people, they're just, they can't handle it, and you gotta understand that because if you're investing so that you can eventually feel good, [laughs] that you feel secure, that's, it, it's all an illusion."

Chris Williamson 41:58 And you feel miserable during your investment on the way to feel good.

Tony Robbins 42:01 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 42:01 Yeah.

Tony Robbins 42:01 So you've destroyed your life. And she goes, "So that's what I do. I'd like..." She said, "I'm not dumb. I still get them some balance." But I, I think of it as like buckets. Think of it this way. There's a security bucket, kind of a peace of mind bucket. That's investments that have a fixed return, right? Those are, you know, bonds. That's gonna be a variety of things, insurance. It might be your home. It's a place where things are gonna go very slowly. There's very low risk.

Chris Williamson 42:23 Mm-hmm.

Tony Robbins 42:23 So it's not high returns. But low risk compounds over time. It looks like grass growing and then boom, boom, boom. We all know what compounding does, right? If I play you a game of golf and say, "Let's play 10 cents a hole," and then right before you swing, I say, "Well, why don't we double each hole, just make it more interesting. You know, 10 cents the first hole, 20 cents the second hole, 40 cents, 80 cents." You go, "Oh yeah, there's 18 holes. Yeah, okay. You know, a few bucks, no big deal." But the last hole's worth $13,000, right? [laughs] In the first beginning, it's 20 cents, 40, looks like nothing. In the last five holes, it goes like this. That's what compounding is. So even in the security bucket, you can get financially free. The risk bucket, growth bucket, risk growth, most people think it was growth. That's the places where you don't have a fixed return, where you have unlimited upside and unlimited downside. That could be everything from real estate to stocks to bonds to private equity to anything you're talking about. Trading, you can lose way more than what you put in. You gotta be careful, obviously, like puts. So the balance between those depend on a couple different things. Number one, when do you need the money? If you need it three years from now, you're not-- You can't be able to take too much risk because you don't have time to make it up, right? If you are 30 years old, you can make some big mistakes. You could have a lot more in your growth bucket, risk bucket, lose, and you got time to make it up, right? So that's the first thing, when do you need money? Second thing you gotta look at is what is your real risk tolerance versus what you think it is? You know, we-- I have a game we play in one of our wealth programs that we do, and I'll say to people in the middle of the thing, I'll say, "Stand up." And I, I'm turning some music on. "Make change with everybody." They go, "What?" I say, "Make change." And we play this little money song, and people walk around, start taking money out of their pocket, and they're exchanging money and, and then they f- the song ends. I say, "Okay, sit down." And then I go on to, like, something else, and, and always one or two people are really fuming, and they'll, they'll finally raise their hand and they'll say, "Excuse me, excuse me." I say, "What is it?" They go, "That was not fair." I say, "What are you talking about?" They go, "I mean, uh, that person, I gave them a $100 bill, and they gave me a five, and I want my money back." And I said, "Well, who said it was your money?" And I said, "Who said the game was over?" Right? And I said, "And the real lesson is if $100 stresses you out and you're gonna be an investor, you're gonna lose." The greatest investors on Earth are not liars. They will tell you, "I'm going to lose. What I wanna do is make sure when I lose, I don't lose very much because I've got enough diversification in what I'm doing." So th- people's gotta understand what their real feelings are about things. And then the third element that affects it is access to cash flow. If you are making $100,000 a year and spending 110, you don't have a lot of extra cash flow. But if you're making $100,000 a year and you're ma- saving, you know, $50,000 of your money, yes, you got more cash flow. If you got a business that's putting more cash than you need it, you can take more risks.

Chris Williamson 45:08 Hmm.

Tony Robbins 45:08 Right? So how much you put in that security bucket, how much you put in that growth bucket, that's really a, an important philosophy because what everybody does is they think they can put it in the security bucket, and then somebody goes, "Oh, Bitcoin." Somebody goes, "Oh, AI." "Oh, something." And they get-- "I, I know what I'll do. I'll take my security bucket, and I'll put it over here in my growth bucket. And then when I make the money, I'll put it back over to my security bucket." What we do tell people is when they grow in their growth bucket for people like that, we say take a third and put it in your security bucket so it keeps growing even faster. Put a third back. You can take a third, and you can use that for other s- forces that we talked about as well as, as one example.

Chris Williamson 45:42 Hmm.

Tony Robbins 45:42 But it's, it's an individual process that people need to make based on the criteria that we just talked about.

Chris Williamson 45:49 What about on the other side, someone who has an abundance mindset? Like, can that make you a better investor or just dangerously optimistic?

Tony Robbins 45:57 [laughs] You tell me.

Christopher Zook 45:58 I've seen, I've seen, I've seen both.

Tony Robbins 45:59 You both. I was gonna say we've both seen both.

Christopher Zook 46:00 I've seen both.

Tony Robbins 46:01 Yeah.

Christopher Zook 46:01 Where people are-- They think they're bulletproof, and so they're just fearless, and they make investments with no fear about the downside, and it ends up working out for them, which is usually the most expensive thing that can happen because then they believe that's gonna happen every time just because somebody-

Chris Williamson 46:13 Oh, they're lost in the sauce.

Christopher Zook 46:15 You know, they're-- Totally. I mean-

Tony Robbins 46:16 Uh-

Christopher Zook 46:16 ... s- somebody gets blackjack the first time they sit at the table, I mean, they're totally-

Chris Williamson 46:19 I'm a genius.

Christopher Zook 46:20 Exactly.

Tony Robbins 46:20 I, I'll give you a perfect example. I have a friend, true story, who, uh, went through my programs, my business programs, and he, uh, bought a taxi top business in San Francisco. And he was one of the first people to take it digital. Previ- previous to that, the only things advertised was tobacco and, you know, uh, n- naked bars and things of that nature. Now he was doing movies and everything else. Well, he built it up and sold the thing for $200 million to a big advertising firm. And so I said to him, I said, "How much are you gonna put in your security bucket out of that? How much are you gonna put back in your growth bucket?" He goes, "Tony, I give you so much credit. I tell everybody I, I made $200 million based on everything you taught about how to grow a business. That's the only thing is, like, I don't need a security bucket." He goes, "I'm gonna make these new investments. I'm going to Vegas." And he, he started buying advertising space in the air above places in advance. It was actually a very brilliant strategy. And he goes, "I'm gonna be a billionaire." I said, "I bet you will." I said, "You gotta take a little bit off the table, 'cause if you're going to Vegas, that should be the first lesson, right? [laughs] You take a little off the table." He goes, "Tony, I, I love you dearly. I'm not doing that." So sure enough, he calls me up about three years later. He goes, "I'm making a killing on some of that advertising. I'm doing so great." Now, this is 2006. He goes, "Now I'm building buildings in Vegas, condos, and I got..." He told me the names of the celebrities. I won't mention it so his name stays private. [laughs] And he goes, "I got these celebrities in." And he goes, "I s- I'm gonna sell out this first building up front using everybody else's money, just like Donald Trump, like everybody else." He goes, "I'm gonna be worth $600 million." I said, "I'm proud of you. How much are you gonna take and put in your security bucket?" I had the same conversation with him, right? He goes, "You just don't give up." I said, "You know why? I've talked about this for 30 years, and I meet people come back 20 years later, 10 years later and say, 'Holy shit, I wish I would've listened.'" He goes, "Tony, I'm doing great." End of the story, 2008, real estate in Las Vegas drops 70%, seven zero percent, right? I talked to him. The second tower, everybody wants their money back. People walk away from it. The second tower is there. He's upside down $400 million, trying to avoid bankruptcy. I'm not mentioning his name because he says, "You can share my story, [laughs] but I don't want any more lawsuits." He's starting all over, and all because he just didn't understand this basic piece. So the answer to your question is most people, it's a mistake. The smartest people who take risks are doing an asymmetrical risk reward.

Chris Williamson 48:43 Hmm.

Tony Robbins 48:43 Where do I have the least amount of risk with the greatest amount of upside? That's what makes people wealthy.

Chris Williamson 48:49 Hmm.

Tony Robbins 48:49 That's the discipline that makes them wealthy.

Christopher Zook 48:51 Well, and the, the, the abundance mindset is great because it'll means they're also not living in fear.

Tony Robbins 48:56 That's good.

Christopher Zook 48:56 And they're not, you know, afraid of taking risks. So we've had a saying for 25 years of our firm: "What's the worst-case scenario? If we can live with that-

Tony Robbins 49:04 That's right

Christopher Zook 49:04 ... the upside will take care of itself." We have an abundance mindset.

Chris Williamson 49:07 Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Christopher Zook 49:07 When we invested in Icon, we knew that it could very well go to zero. And we were willing to take that risk because we knew that if it worked, it could be completely game-changing, not only investment-wise, but also for society. That is the reason why we could do that, is because we had an abundance mindset, but we always respect risk, and we're always afraid of not respecting risk because we know that risk will just whack you upside the head if you don't respect it.

Tony Robbins 49:32 And w- uh, Chris and I, as, as a partnership, it's really nice 'cause I see the opportunity, he sees the risk [laughs] . And so you see-

Christopher Zook 49:38 I'm the skeptic.

Tony Robbins 49:39 I like the nice tension.

Chris Williamson 49:39 It's the yin and the yang.

Christopher Zook 49:40 No, no, it's true.

Tony Robbins 49:41 But it's, but it's so perfect, right? We bring things together to each other. He'll look at... How many will we look at in a year now? It's more now.

Christopher Zook 49:46 It's over 2,000 investments a year.

Tony Robbins 49:48 And out of that we'll make-

Christopher Zook 49:49 Maybe 20 or 30 in a, in a typical year.

Chris Williamson 49:52 Mm-hmm.

Tony Robbins 49:52 Out of 2,000 opportunities.

Chris Williamson 49:53 Mm.

Tony Robbins 49:54 Many of which are extraordinary. But that's why there's a 96% [laughs] profit ratio of all investments over 25 years.

Chris Williamson 50:00 How do you-

Tony Robbins 50:00 So you have to have that kind of discipline.

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Chris Williamson 51:01 How do you think about, uh, taking some off the table for you to use in your life? I'm aware that much of this is what's your personal tolerance for risk and how much do you need and so on and so forth, but there's a certain archetype of, of person, and Bill Perkins wrote a book about this, Die With Zero, which, which is fucking fantastic. Uh, there is a certain archetype, the sort of more misery person. Maybe they're someone that didn't come from money, but as opposed to, "I now have it, I'll blow it," it's, "I now have it, and I'm terrified of losing it."

Tony Robbins 51:28 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 51:28 How do you think about advising people who are investing in the market? It's like, all right, you've done well. It's time for you to actually take some of this and-

Tony Robbins 51:35 I think this is so personally critical. I teach this. I kind of alluded to it. I said two buckets. There's a third bucket. I call it your Dream Bucket. And what I have people do is the Dream Bucket is all the things you call investments that really aren't [laughs] , but they make you feel good.

Chris Williamson 51:48 Like a hyperbaric oxygen chamber.

Tony Robbins 51:49 [laughs] Yes, like a hyperbaric oxygen chamber. Like that SP3 from Ferrari that-

Chris Williamson 51:53 Yeah

Tony Robbins 51:53 ... you know, maybe it goes up from 3 million to 5 million. Maybe it goes down to 200.

Chris Williamson 51:56 Like the new bed that you want, the da da da da da da da. Yep.

Tony Robbins 51:58 Yeah. It, it's your, it's your jet, it's your island. It's those things, or it's a little condo that you have, you know, depending on where your economics are. Um, it's $50,000 walking around money. It's what you do for jewel- It's those things, and I have people create those, and the reason I have them create those is if you don't enjoy it along the way, most people, if they own a business, they learn how to create more when they experience more joy from what they're doing as well. But you keep the same disciplines, but instead of only having those two buckets, we'll say when you have a big hit, put a little piece in your Dream Bucket as well. Or you get a big growth expansion on your Growth Bucket, put a third in your Security, put a third back to reinvest, and put a third in your Dream Bucket.

Chris Williamson 52:38 Hmm.

Tony Robbins 52:38 And so what happens is I find people, different types of people. That type of person gets excited. Like, I fortunately was around some brilliant people. Peter Guber, one of my dearest friends in the world for the last 35 years, I mean, he is a lifestyle guy. And like, he got me... I'll never forget, I was 30 years old. He invited me to come to his place in Aspen, a thousand-acre ranch in Aspen, just to give you a sense of the valley. It's great.

Chris Williamson 53:00 Quite, uh, highly sought after real estate in that-

Tony Robbins 53:02 $100 million for five acres, right? To give you an idea.

Chris Williamson 53:05 Oh. [laughs]

Tony Robbins 53:05 That's just like... So I go to his ranch and, and talking to him, and he calls me up. He says, "You gotta come to this meeting." And I'm not a networker. If I can't add value, I didn't wanna just go talk about stuff, right? He goes, "Tony, the most influential people, I'm telling you, I need to put you in front of these people. Proximity's power. Come, come to it." So I lived in San Diego, so I fly to LA, right? 'Cause that's the first leg. Then I fly to Denver. Then I fly from Denver to Aspen. They lose my luggage in Denver, and I get to Aspen. By the time I'm done, it takes nine hours to get there. I arrive as the dinner's ending.

Chris Williamson 53:36 With no clothes.

Tony Robbins 53:37 With no clothes. With clothes on my back. And Peter said, "What the F is wrong with you? What, what?" I said, "What are you talking about, Peter? I've got here. I left at 6:00, 7:00 this morning. I went from here to there." And then he goes, "You flew commercial?" [laughs] And I said, "Peter, I'm not a billionaire like you." He goes, "Are you an idiot? You don't need to be a billionaire. You could charter and be here in two hours." He said, "You gotta buy some crappy little... Get a Learjet. Get... It's 2,500 bucks an hour. For 5,000 bucks, you'd be here and another 5,000 back. That's $10,000 and my ticket was only 1,200. Yeah, and you weren't here." And he goes, "You should come up with a budget. The amount of hours you fly per year, you should come up with a budget and just charter. You don't need to own a plane."

Chris Williamson 54:14 Hmm.

Tony Robbins 54:15 He said, "It will transform your life." And so I still didn't do it, and one night I was doing an event in Los Angeles, and two events had collided. Somebody screwed up on the schedule. I finished at 1:00 in the morning. I gotta be in Edmond- Edmonton, Alberta the next morning at 8:30 for 5,000 people, and there are no flights. So I said, "And I am-- I need sleep. I've been going on for four straight days, 12 hours a day." So I called my team and I said, "You gotta find a jet. Find the cheapest, smallest little Learjet, whatever you gotta do." And I said, "I gotta sleep." They go, "Tony, there's no room to sleep on one of those things." I said, "If I was dying, if I was dead, what would you do? You'd put me on a gurney. Get a gurney in that thing." They go, "It'll never happen." We pulled it off. I arrive there at 2:00 in the morning. First time I'm on a private jet. I climb in this little thing. It's such a small jet, I can touch the captain, [laughs] right? I strap into this thing. We lift off. We turn at an angle. We look down at Santa Monica Bay. I look up at the moon. I'm all strapped in. I fall asleep for four hours. I get up. I'm on stage in time. I do the event I go, "This is the way to live." [laughs]

Chris Williamson 55:15 [laughs]

Tony Robbins 55:16 So it changed things. It changed my ideas. Like, okay, I'm doing all this business. Most of that is half write-off anyway. Here's what the real dollars are, and I figured out how to earn more. So there's a mindset that comes if you experience a certain lifestyle. If you have ever had the privilege of someone else cleaning your toilets and you don't like that, you probably won't do that again. You'll probably find someone who's really good at that, enjoys that, and provide them an income and give yourself freedom to do something else. Having lifestyle is critical, I believe, but it's different for everybody. Some people miser. But, you know, it's like, um, there's a, there's a story about this, this couple that, uh, saved all their money and they went on this little trip. You know, they'd saved up forever and they didn't wanna spend their money, and they go on this cruise and but they bring cheese and crackers 'cause they don't wanna spend any extra money. And so every day they go on the trip, they meet everybody, and at the end of the day, they go have their cheese and crackers. And on the last day they finally said, "Look, let's just splurge," 'cause, you know, on these trips, they have these huge amounts of food and desserts, and they went for everything, and they got the wine, everything else, and then they asked for the check at the end. And you know how the story ends, right?

Chris Williamson 56:20 It was all-inclusive.

Tony Robbins 56:21 Comes out, he goes, "It's all-inclusive. It came with the trip." And they look at each other and go, "This is how we've been living our lives." That's how most people live their lives.

Chris Williamson 56:30 Mm.

Tony Robbins 56:30 They're so miserly. What'll make you do that more is if you actually get into giving. 'Cause one of the things that made me grow more than anything else was when I started to tithe, 'cause I interviewed, uh, multiple people, but I read- interviewed, uh, um, uh, Templeton, and at the time, you know, he was the first billionaire investor. He was a brilliant man and such a good-hearted guy. I met him multiple times, interviewed him. And he said, "Tony..." I asked him, "What's the secret to wealth?" He said, "You teach it." I said, "Well, I teach a lot of things." "Which is?" He goes, "It's gratitude. If you're grateful about anything, you're gonna be rich. If you have a billion dollars and you're not grateful, you're unhappy. If you got three beautiful kids and a wife, you're not grateful, you don't have a life. Gratitude's the secret." But he said, "I will tell you this. If you really wanna be wealthy, I don't know anyone who's tithed at least 10%," doesn't have to be to re- to a religion, to something, "for more than a decade that didn't become incredibly wealthy." So I'm proud to say I've done 17%. I've gone way above my, my pay grade, but the rewards have me have been unbelievable. And I, I started out feeding two families, then I figured I was about 12, 14, 2014, I said I'd found out in 37 years I'd fed at that point 42 million people. It was pretty exciting. But I was like, what if I fed that many people in one year? What if I fed 100 million people in a year? What if I had 100 people, million people a year for 10 straight years? A billion meals. And I teamed up Feeding America to deliver the food, and I did in eight years. And when I started, it would seemed impossible. Then I said, "I'm gonna do 100 billion meals around the world," 'cause I travel around the world and you see people starving, right? And I recruited, uh, uh, Governor Beasley, who's the head of the UN, of the World Food Program. He won the Nobel Prize, but when he started, there were 85 million people starving. Now there's 385 million people. I said, "We'll put together a strike force. We'll do this better, but we're gonna make it measurable." I said, like, "What's the number of meals we need for the next 10 years to be able to feed most people in the world? And then during those 10 years, we gotta find the sustainable solution 'cause you can't do charity forever." He goes, "Tony, I don't know, 40, 50, 60 billion meals." I said, "We'll do 100 billion meal challenge for the 10 years." He goes, "Tony, you're never gonna get 100 billion meals." I said, "I did a billion meals. I wasn't a billionaire when I started. I've been blessed. When you bless others, you get blessed." And I said, "If there's the least 99 poor p- people like me." So we went to the Forbes, um, you know, philanthropy event. I brought him to speak. He's amazing. I spoke. People were in tears. I thought, "We're gonna get 50 out of the 100. We're gonna do half of it right here." Five people signed up. But in the last four years, by changing our approach, I started this year at 62 billion meals. Right now I have commitments for 295 billion meals in four years, and 63 billion have already been delivered. So scaling that has changed things. I said, you know, I, I'm a private- I have a private jet. It burns fuel. I don't wanna be incongruent. How do I replace more than what I put out here? I burn 5,000 trees a year. Guess what? I planted 100 million trees. I not only just planted them, but then showed the people there how to build crops every single month and built a forest farm for them in West Africa, a pr- program that's there. We've-- My wife and I have, like, saw what's happening with some friends of ours, some trafficking happening of children. No one wants to talk about it. So I set a goal. I said, "We're gonna free 30,000 children." I went on, on one of these missions myself, undercover with scars all over my face. It was the most horrific thing I've ever done.

Chris Williamson 59:52 Fuck me. I do not want to be faced by you in a dark alley.

Tony Robbins 59:55 Well, I, uh, you wanna be faced by the people I dealt with in a dark alley.

Chris Williamson 59:58 Yeah.

Tony Robbins 59:58 But I have went with a group of SEAL Team Six guys that are brilliant. It was an undercover operation.

Chris Williamson 1:00:03 Mm.

Tony Robbins 1:00:03 Some will never get as long as they live. But when those kids were freed, it was one of the greatest gifts of my life. So we've now freed over 100,000 children, and, uh, I've got a target of a million. When those are your goals, you build businesses a different way. That's why now I'm doing $22 billion business. I wasn't doing numbers like that before. I didn't have all these companies. It's like I have a higher purpose in building them. All those businesses serve people. They provide things that are life-changing in terms of value for people. They provide jobs. But in addition to all that, I have a higher purpose than what I'm doing. That will make you earn more and grow more, expand more, find answers you never found before. It, it's like you need something compelling. If all you're trying to do is make a living or just cover your overhead, you're never gonna find the answers. You're never gonna push yourself to discover what's possible.

Chris Williamson 1:00:49 Or if the only reason that you're earning money is to reinvest the money, to never actually take it out, to never actually enjoy it.

Tony Robbins 1:00:54 Never enjoy it.

Chris Williamson 1:00:55 Yeah. Yeah. That's, uh-

Tony Robbins 1:00:55 But there are people that do that, and they die that way, and just pass the money on to somebody

Tony Robbins 1:00:59 else, and...

Chris Williamson 1:00:59 What do you think, beyond the giving thing, which I know is probably the high-- Oddly enough, being selfless is the most selfish thing that you can do-

Tony Robbins 1:01:05 Exactly

Chris Williamson 1:01:05 ... 'cause it's the highest ROI.

Tony Robbins 1:01:05 You, you get the most reward possible.

Chris Williamson 1:01:07 Beyond that, what do you think for a normal person who's maybe not quite a we're gonna fix world hunger or, or buy a jet, what are some of the areas where people can derive a lot of satisfaction, joy in life from spending money. Someone's being responsible. They may be doing some of the investment. They've got their one-third and one-third. That third third, what's a, what are some of the places that you think, "Hey, this is somewhere that you really should look at spending money to improve your quality of life-"

Tony Robbins 1:01:34 I-

Chris Williamson 1:01:34 ... that people might not think about from, from the get-go?

Tony Robbins 1:01:37 I still think... Here's what I wanna say. I have, I have a friend that was on an airplane recently. I've known him 45, 44 years, and someone was reading one of my books. And he said, you know, he always loves... "What do you think of that book?" Oh, it was my, my energy book, right? About your body, and it's unbelievable, and the stem cells, and all these things and, and you know. And he said, "What do you think of the author?" He goes, "Well, he's a really good guy. Donated 100% of the book." Which, by the way, we've done that with Holy Grail Investing too. We don't take a dime. We give it all to Feeding America. And he says, "That's really cool." He goes, "But you know, he's rich, so it must be easy." And my friend Mike says to him, his name's Mike Keyes, he said, "What if I told you I've known Tony for 45 years, and I met him when he was 17, and he had $20 in his pocket, and he didn't know where his next meal was gonna give, and he gave half of it to a guy on the street that was begging for it? And Tony taught me something then. If you don't give a dime out of a dollar, you're never gonna give 10 million out of 100 million." The first place you should start is giving. I have a friend that started out feeding two, three people. He's, he's fed a mill- he's fed a million people now in the last 10 years that come on this little trip with me, just finding little ways to help and make a difference. So you can start small and do things. And in terms of what are the things that people do that go in their Dream Bucket besides contribution-

Chris Williamson 1:02:44 Mm-hmm

Tony Robbins 1:02:44 ... it's usually, like, little things. If you are at Starbucks, and th- they've proven this 'cause they can measure what happens now with the secretions in your mouth, the hormone changes. Nothing comes close. The three things that give you the most joy are, number one, experiences. Experiences are more than any toy or asset 'cause those we get used to, but if you create experiences, people remember them. The second thing, though, is giving to someone else. If you go and you buy the next five people or 10 people at Starbucks their coffee you don't even know, the transformation in your biochemistry, the level of internal joy that people carry is greater than people that spend millions of dollars on something that are doing it for positioning purposes.

Chris Williamson 1:03:25 Hmm.

Tony Robbins 1:03:25 Like, "Oh, I gave this money to charity" type of thing. You can see a change in that area. Then what people do that gives them joy is all the little things. It could be just, you know, doing something special for your kids. It can be saying, "We're gonna do a first class ticket to Europe this time instead of a, a coach class just for this element. We're gonna upscale something in our life that feels like a greater quality of life and brings us joy." If that joy and pleasure is there, you're gonna have the desire to invest more, grow more, expand more, be, be masterful in this area of your life.

Chris Williamson 1:03:56 It's really interesting to think about the positive reward that people get from investing their money that nobody ever actually ends up withdrawing to improve their quality of life.

Tony Robbins 1:04:03 Yes.

Chris Williamson 1:04:03 And just continuing to put money in, continuing to put money in, and never paying it back down. I think a, a few areas that people would probably be surprised, uh, getting a, a maid or a cleaner for your house is-

Tony Robbins 1:04:13 Oh, 100%

Chris Williamson 1:04:14 ... uh, what, um, somebody to do the gardening. Some people like the gardening. Some people think that it is hell. Uh, those, uh, it is one of the first places that you can do, not just what is it that I want, what is it that I don't enjoy doing, and how is that sapping into-

Tony Robbins 1:04:28 And, and what could give me... And what gives me more time.

Chris Williamson 1:04:30 Yes.

Tony Robbins 1:04:30 'Cause probably the most scarce thing for human beings today outside of money is time.

Chris Williamson 1:04:33 Yeah.

Tony Robbins 1:04:34 Right? 'Cause now so much of our time we allow to control. I mean, we used to spend six hours on screens. Then, you know, people are stuck at home during COVID. It went to 13 hours, and it has not gone back. People walking down the street staring at it. So it's not that we have less time, it's just that we allow everything else to engage us.

Chris Williamson 1:04:50 Mm-hmm.

Tony Robbins 1:04:50 And if you can free up time with a small amount of money, it gives you a, a totally different experience and quality of your life.

Christopher Zook 1:04:56 Well, the, the other thing that's a beautiful thing about that is it's not just the time that somebody gets, it's the opportunity that it creates.

Tony Robbins 1:05:01 That's right.

Christopher Zook 1:05:02 So being able to allow someone else to be able to earn a living, to be able to do what they're really good at, what they enjoy, what's positive flow for them-

Tony Robbins 1:05:09 Mm

Christopher Zook 1:05:09 ... and at the same time is also rewarding for us, that's a wonderful thing to be able to do. To be able to make memories for our family, to be able to make memories for friends, to be able to give them things that they might not ever be able to do on their own. And it doesn't have to be expensive, but to be creative. So certainly for somebody who's an investor, and they've done well, to be able to harvest some of that and go, "You know what? This was well-earned. I'm gonna make sure that I pay it back either through charitable contribution or through making memories for friends or family, or to be able to provide opportunity for other people to earn a living and to be able to feed their family."

Chris Williamson 1:05:41 Hmm.

Christopher Zook 1:05:42 Whatever that may be, that why, and I'll quote him, "The bigger the why, the harder we try." Ultimately, that is what delivers happiness for people when they are looking at something that is just a nebular number and keeping score. It has to be for a purpose. That purpose is what ultimately caus- causes them to not only make good decisions, but also to have staying power to go, "This is worth it."

Chris Williamson 1:06:05 It's interesting, right? Money is a number on a spreadsheet or a number on your bank balance on your phone, and it's only when you actually end up trading it in for something in the real world that it becomes anything.

Tony Robbins 1:06:14 Yes.

Chris Williamson 1:06:15 Like, it's just a number.

Tony Robbins 1:06:16 That's right.

Chris Williamson 1:06:16 It doesn't... And it could be, like, you could look at it as dollars, but it could be hyperinflation South Africa money if you didn't know. Because until you end up trading it in, the number is kind of arbitrary.

Tony Robbins 1:06:25 It's just a symbol.

Christopher Zook 1:06:26 Totally.

Chris Williamson 1:06:26 Yeah. It doesn't make any difference.

Tony Robbins 1:06:27 Yeah.

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Chris Williamson 1:07:26 Okay, you mentioned about AI earlier on. What are the-- How are you thinking about AI as a future, and what are the opportunities in AI that people aren't seeing at the moment?

Tony Robbins 1:07:35 Well, we invested in Anthropic and ChatGPT. I mean, Anthropic went in twenty twenty-five, started a billion, went to ten.

Chris Williamson 1:07:41 Mm-hmm.

Tony Robbins 1:07:41 And now by April, it was forty-four billion this year. There's been nothing like it. It's unbelievable. But I think there, it's important to understand the thesis for investing. You know, I ask most people, if I said to you, "In the next ten years, do you believe there'll be more change to humanity than in the history of all of humanity?" What would you say?

Chris Williamson 1:07:59 Uh, depends how RSI goes. Maybe? Maybe.

Tony Robbins 1:08:04 Yeah. Most people would say yes, 'cause I've asked mill- not millions, tens of thousands of people. Then I say to them, "Well, it's like, what if I have a ten-year goal to feed a billion people? It doesn't mean anything unless you pull it to here." And they say, like, "What does that mean this year? Oh, I fed forty-two million people in thirty-seven years. I gotta do a hundred million this year to get to a billion?" That calls you to action. So what I've been doing with people is saying, "So what if I told you the next thirty-six months, there'll be as much change as probably you've ever experienced in your lifetime for humanity?" Almost everybody agrees, especially when you point out three things. AGI. We'll have AGI in the next thirty-six months. Some people would argue we already have it. That means one agent has more power in one category, chemistry, mathematics, whatever it is, than any human being. Pretty much there. Ray Kurzweil predicted that this would happen in, uh, in ninety, you know, that we'd have this within three years from now back in nineteen ninety, right? Um, and he's now... I interviewed him the other day, and he said, "I was conservative. It's gonna happen sooner." In five to six years, we'll have super intelligence. That means one agent will have the power of all human minds combined. When that happens, the world changes so radically. Second piece, quantum. I was just with the vice chairman of IBM, and we were talking about AI, and I was saying, "I'm concerned that, look, there's peop- there's no safety because everybody's going for the trillion-dollar target, and if they don't do it, there's the stick of China taking over, right? So there's not a look at this." He goes, "Well, if you're concerned about that, be more concerned about quantum." He said, because quantum, whoever gets quantum first can basically make the other military defunct. We don't have to even have m-missiles. We can get their codes and fire things off where they are.

Chris Williamson 1:09:42 Breaks all encryption.

Tony Robbins 1:09:43 It's, it's... And I, and you, we've all been hearing quantum is fifteen years, seven ye- He said, when I asked him, "When's it gonna happen?" He goes, "Between us and, and, and Google, we're the two drivers. China's a little bit behind, but not much." He said it's critically important, thirty-six months. You know, you go over and you see, uh, if you've been up to, um, to see, uh, Brett Adcock and his group up there at Figure AI, you walk in this building, and it is like you're in the future. There's nothing but robots everywhere doing everything. Not robots like you see in China, you know, they're robotic, and they do karate, and, you know, they're running a program. Thinking robots that make things happen. It's happening right now as we speak. So all of this is happening. Now, maybe it's more than thirty-six months on the robots, probably for some of them, but at some point, there'll be more robots than humans, right? Between him and Elon, you can guess that for sure, not to mention what China's doing. So we're living in a time where there'll be more change than any time in history. So you have to say, what does that do? To me, I look at my thesis and say, that means if you don't have agents as a company in the next thirty-six months, your chances of competing are g- quite small. They're not getting implemented right now because there's a fear level. Sixty percent of... You know, most CEOs think AI is gonna be the greatest thing in the world. But if you see what Microsoft just talked about, ninety-four percent of these AI projects never get integrated. That's why they're not producing them. And yet, the ones that do, it disrupts it. You heard all the frontier cr- companies were all talking about, "Hey, you know, it's gonna disrupt jobs. We gotta be prepared." And that didn't go real well. So now they're going to create more jobs. They are right. They will create more jobs. But in the time period, they're gonna disrupt those smaller jobs, and that's a mass number of people-

Chris Williamson 1:11:22 Hmm

Tony Robbins 1:11:23 ... they're gonna need reskilling. So I look and go, we wanna be in the position of helping companies bring on agents, not to replace people, to empower them. The way we get it, we... When I'm working with Salesforce, we've just now, we had the people out here from, uh, the UAE 'cause they wanna make their entire government agentic. And so we're working with them. The reason they're working with us is we have a different approach. Our approach is we don't put some giant AI in the sky where you put everything there because if something breaks down, you don't know what caused it. We create these micro little AIs, and what we do is we look at people's workflow, and you find out that sixty percent of what people do is busy work. And so they don't like busy work, but they're caught up in it. Your head of marketing is making a PDF. I mean, what, what the hell are you doing, right? So now what we do is we give them an agent that is their assistant. We have a scanning device that shows all of where they spend the work. It shows it, and you put them to work. It doesn't replace your job. It makes you more powerful. That's a way of integrating. We gotta reskill a mass number of Americans. That's a whole 'nother element, not only America, but the rest of the world. And then we gotta get people prepared for a world of uncertainty. Most of us have been living with rented certainty. The certainty, what I mean by rented is we're certain because we have a certain job, we have a certain income, we have a certain family, we have a certain way of being. All that goes away when your house burns down, or when all of a sudden you lose your job, or when all of a sudden somebody in the family gets injured or hurt, or there's a disease or something of that nature. Well, we're gonna see that certainty shattered by the pace of change, and so we have to prepare people for that. So by myself, I look at this as a triangle of impact. So I'm in the business of bringing companies agentic. I'm doing it with Salesforce. I'm actually g- doing the integration for them at their upcoming event in September here. I'm working on getting people debt-free college education. We have a company now that's... We're... [chuckles] One of the biggest problems is how do you reskill people rapidly? Well, traditionally, you try to teach a mass number of people, and not many people have the skill as a teacher to do that. So you get one sigma improvement if you can make the class size small.

Chris Williamson 1:13:24 Hmm.

Tony Robbins 1:13:25 But there's always been the two sigma problem that we've known for forty years, and that is you take an average student and give them one-on-one mentoring, they outproduce ninety-eight percent of the class. But it's been too expensive. But with agentic AI, now we have it. So we take people now that have just lost their jobs. We give them a guaranteed new skills, new life. No debt. Do you know what the largest debt in America is? Mortgages. You know what the number two is? Student debt. $1.8 trillion of student debt. A four-year college education takes on average 20 years to pay off. President Obama, when he was a senator, was still paying off some of his college debt right before he ran for president, to give you an idea. So we're gonna create a solution in that area. And then I'm working with the guys that built Calm, if you remember Calm, the largest app in the world for meditation. These guys built it and sold it for a billion and a half, I think it was. I sat down with them and said, "Listen, we need more therapists," and even if you have the best therapists in the world, there aren't enough, and people are now going to ChatGPT, and I'm sure you saw there's all these lawsuits. 1.3 million people a week ask ChatGPT about suicide. The other day there was another article about a woman who committed suicide, and the ChatGPT not only explained how to do it, but it, it wrote her suicide note, right? These are made for sycophancy. They're designed to keep you online talking. They're not designed to actually help you to change. So I've built something with them where we have now technology that reads your microexpressions. So you're on-screen, it can see every emotion you're feeling. It's not only just an LLM, and it has auditory elements. We spent $30 million spent to identify what auditory elements mean what emotions you're having. So if you and I are sitting here and I say, "How's it going?" And you go, "Fine," or you go, "Fine," or you go, "Fine," the LLM just sees fine. But you and I see something completely different. So we can interact, and if it's something that's suicidal, it moves it up to 988. So think about this. There's 11 million veterans in this country. We have 2,000 therapists for them. It takes four months to see one. Most veterans don't wanna talk to a therapist. They don't wanna talk to a female therapist. They find a lot of the male guys don't. It's... It makes them feel weak. They're not gonna go spend four months, and 17 are killing themself every day. For 90% less money, we can be there 24/7, 365 helping them with something that's proven and has a track record. So I think you have to have a thesis. Like, what's happening in the world and where is it going? Just like the thesis of there's gonna be 5% more spending of, of the GDP of all these countries, then that means you probably should be looking at something on the military side if you wanna have a growth investment. What's your thesis for investing? That's mine for where I'm putting my primary time and energy, but we have a series of thesis of where you can make a difference. And so you might even touch on some of the other areas like energy.

Christopher Zook 1:16:08 Well, I mean, when you think about the world of AI, it's touching every aspect of it. But one of the things that is absolutely incumbent is you have to have energy to be able to power it. If you don't have enough energy, you don't have the ability to do AI of any type, any form, any substance. And everybody's talking about that with data centers, but no one really wants to admit how far behind the production of energy we are. And to be very clear, we're for all kinds of energy. From traditional to sustainable to transitional, whatever you wanna call it, we're gonna need all of the above in order to be able to meet the enormous demand growth that's not just coming from AI. It's coming from the fact that billions of people are moving up in their economic situation. When somebody goes from lower income to middle income, they want a lot more power and a lot more energy. When somebody goes from middle income to higher income, they consume a lot more energy. So all of it is the same growth curve as far as demand. But what's not changed is supply, and the amount of supply that's out there is basically flatlining or growing very, very little. Those lines are expected to cross in 2028, where we will literally not have as much power as we need to be able to meet all the demand. You're talking about the data centers alone in this country will consume more power than all of New York City, just the data centers than that one city in literally three years to five years.

Tony Robbins 1:17:32 Hmm.

Christopher Zook 1:17:32 That is something that we have to meet the demand of. But again, it's not just data centers, so we don't wanna demonize data centers. It's the consumption of AI. And obviously if the United States is going to compete in the world of AI, the AI arms race, if you will, then we have to have the power to do it, because I assure you that China and other countries are gonna be putting all the demand, uh, all the supply out there that they need to be able to meet the AI demand.

Tony Robbins 1:17:57 All the- We need 50% more energy by 2035. 50% more than we're doing right now. So that means we've gotta use all forms of energy. And energy, because of the way we've approached it recently, has been a tremendous opportunity. Give, give them a sense of what kinds of changes we've seen.

Christopher Zook 1:18:10 Well, I mean, we've seen to where there were so many people chasing energy as an investment asset class to where people decided for reasons that they have the freedom to decide that they didn't want to invest in fossil fuels and traditional energy. So we have a very simple metric that we follow called the reserve replacement ratio. And in the book we talk about it. You know, anybody who's been a teenager or had a teenager, if they know that the milk is full at the beginning of the day, if they don't go buy more milk, by the end of the day it's gonna be less full, right? And eventually they're gonna run out of milk. Well, that's exactly what it is with energy, 'cause this stuff doesn't last forever. It depletes. It goes away, just like the milk carton. So somebody has to go replenish the milk. And so far in this decade, for every one unit of energy that we're consuming, we're only replacing .2 of that energy. So we're consuming at five times faster the rate than what we're creating new energy, and it's not like you can flip a switch. It takes years to get major energy resources online.

Tony Robbins 1:19:11 Hmm.

Christopher Zook 1:19:12 So we are way behind, and unfortunately that's gonna cross, which creates the opportunity to where, you know, as an example, in some cases because there's just not that many people investing in it, we're able to buy things at three times cash flow or four times cash flow, and we've seen enormous returns because we're willing to invest all across the energy spectrum, and that includes nuclear and other places where there's great opportunity. But it's gonna take all of it, and those that provide the capital are gonna be very well rewarded for doing so.

Tony Robbins 1:19:41 Hmm.

Christopher Zook 1:19:41 I wanna mention th- to, to catch back also that anybody who's in a position, like I have a, a brother-in-law that's 60 years old. He's a software engineer

Tony Robbins 1:19:50 Uh, you know, uh, the Gary, uh, gentleman who's the vice chairman of IBM told me his daughter was crunching code and used to get a million dollars for a nine-month project 'cause she's one of the best in the world to crunch code. Now it's done by an agent in four days for free. She doesn't have a job, but she's pregnant, so she has a future, and they have money, so he's not worried about her. But people are being disrupted. The biggest challenge is how do they get re-educated? So we have a, an ability to do this, and if they go to unitedcolleges.org, unitedcolleges.org, they can apply and see what type of jobs are actually out there in demand, what professions they could tap into to retool themself, and they can do it at their own tempo with an agent that knows everything about you, knows you love soccer, teaches you how to do that, adapts to your training capacity, and gives you that skill. So I just wanna plant that seed for people 'cause so many people are being disrupted. The guy's 60 years old. He walks in, six hundred and fifty people are let go that morning. He's one of them. Been with the company 25 years. No economic plan to back him up. No back, no, uh, severance. And guess what? They took the whole thing at Gentec, sold to a Swedish company. He's got two kids in college. He's got a, a wife that's a substitute teacher, makes $30,000 a year, and he's got a mortgage. What's he gonna do? He can't go try and get some new education at that and pay for that piece and go further in debt. So we're solving that aspect, to give you an idea. So while there's opportunity everywhere, disruption still means if you retool yourself, you can take advantage. Anybody can still do well in this world. People say, you know, "Is it possible really to do well financially? Is the game rigged?" The game is still a game you can absolutely win, but you gotta learn, and you gotta take a little bit of time to understand what's possible, and you gotta at least give yourself a short period of time where you say, "I'm gonna find a diversification of eight to 12 uncorrelated assets and reduce my risk 80% while I'm working on my job or my career or whatever else I'm doing. So that's my other business that's gonna protect me." 'Cause Social Security at this point is not probably gonna be enough for anybody, if it's even here later on for people to have a quality of life that they need.

Chris Williamson 1:21:52 It seems like there's a lot of change happening in the world, and that means that people are gonna get scared. Lots of people get stuck thinking and overthinking a decision. They spend so much time worrying about what decision to make that their life sort of turns into a relationship with the internal drama of the decision itself.

Tony Robbins 1:22:06 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:22:06 Obviously, you've spent a lot of time thinking about human psychology, human nature, and behavior. Have you got a framework inside of finance or outside of it generally in life for becoming better at the decision-making process? How do you think about making decisions?

Tony Robbins 1:22:19 I have a very specific process. Um, it, it takes a little time to explain, but here's its essence. The most important thing in decision-making is value clarification. When you know what's most important to you, you can make a decision. Most people are trying to hit multiple targets at once. "I wanna do this, and if I do that, it'll work. What if I do that? But then that works. But what if I do..." And they do it in their head. So the first piece is it's gotta be done on your computer, on paper, outside your head. You gotta start with, I call it OOCEMR, real quick. O is you start with the outcomes. What are the outcomes? What do I, what do I want from this decision? What's the most... And then you gotta rate them in order of importance. They're not all equal. I want a job that's gonna do this, this, and this. Okay. Well, is it the money the most important? Is it the lifestyle that's most important? Is it the quality of who you're gonna be around? You have to rate the importance 'cause you may not get 'em all equally. We wanna make sure what's most important to you get. Once I do the outcomes clearly, now I need to know what are my options. And the delusion is one choice is no choice. Two choices is a dilemma. There's at least three choices always, and if you live that principle, you'll find it. When you usually get three, you'll find four or five. And I get people to come up with options they haven't thought of before. You go, "Okay." Don't judge 'em yet, right? So outcomes, O. O, okay, what are my options? C, what are the consequences? So now I look at each option and say, "Okay, what's the upside or downside of each one?" And I make the list in paper, not in my head. You know? I have a, actually a computer program I designed for this. And so now I can see upsides, downsides. Okay, I've done half of it. Now EMR. Now I need to evaluate. I need to evaluate, okay, there's this upside and the downside, but what's the probability of it happening? Like you might say, "Oh, I could lose everything." Okay, but what's the probability? Or, "Oh, I'll make a billion," but what's the probability? Is it 90%, 10%, 5%? That starts for you to really evaluate what your better options are. And now what'll happen is some of those options will be clear to you they don't make sense. So the M is mitigate. I might end up with two or three options here, and I go, "Okay, well, how do I get the best of this one and this one? What could I do to combine them?" There's a new way to do this, and I teach that process. And then the R is resolve. OOCEMR. The resolve, this is what I'm gonna do because in the end, everybody wants to make a decision they're certain about. This will get you about as certain as you can get, but at the same time, there is no absolute certainty. I mean, if you're a leader, you're paid for making difficult decisions. I, I was with General Schwarzkopf years ago when the first-- You know, that's how old I am, the first, uh, [chuckles] war we had in the Middle East there and, and, uh, when we're dealing with Saddam. And, um, he was brilliant. And I asked him, 'cause he was a very decisive guy, and I asked him, you know, "How is it you make the tough decisions?" And he said, "When I was a p- private," he goes, "I worked for a general, and this general was a tough guy. He was a four-star general." And he said one day they, they found out that there had been a decision that the Pentagon had struggled with for 20 years, a very giant strategic decision, and the general was finally gonna make the decision what to happen. So they sent reams of binders of information in to have him evaluate. And four days before, they're getting all this, and there's an army, he said, of like five people helping to organize this for the general and summarize it. The general had to fly overseas, and he didn't get back till the night before. So he said, "General, we gotta cancel the meeting. You're not prepared." He goes, "No, the meeting goes forward, 8:30 in the morning." Shows up at 8:30 in the morning, and he's freaked out. He's like, "There's no way the general knows enough to make this decision." General says, "Okay, give me what you got. You have 15 minutes." They go, they give this incredible... "Tell me your side. Give me 15 minutes." Soon as it was done, he stood up and he said, "That's what we're doing." Everybody stood up, saluted the general. This is a decision that had been made for 10 years. A really strategic decision. So Schwarzkopf tells me, he said, "He's freaking out inside." So when everybody leaves, he goes and knocks on the general's door and says, "Permission to speak openly?" He said, "At ease." He goes, "General, I'm your chief of staff here. There's no way you know enough information to make this decision. You, you- I mean, there's reams more of information for you to know." He said, "Yes." He said, "How could you make that decision?" He said, "'Cause the decision needed to be made. No one's done it for 10 years. I got enough information to make a decision, I made one. Now, if we're wrong, I'm gonna find out quicker 'cause we're gonna do something, and if we're right, we're gonna move forward." He goes, "I never forgot that." He said, "Then I got one more lesson from him. One time, general's leaving again, and he said, 'You're in charge. I'm gonna be gone for 10 days. Make whatever decisions are necessary.'" And he's freaking out [laughs] 'cause he's a private. Right? He goes, "Well, but, but sir, but sir, I, I- like, I, I, how do- I don't, I don't know what to do." He goes, "When you com- put in command, take charge." And he said, "Rule 13." He goes, "What's rule 13?" "Put in command, take charge." He's leaving. He goes, "Sir, I, but, but I don't know what to do." He said, "Rule 14." He says, "What's rule 14?" He goes, "Do what's right. Do what's right." You know, you build decision-making muscles by making more decisions. Some people have a hard time deciding what they're having for dinner. You been with somebody and everybody else has ordered and they still can't decide? You know, they have weak decision-making muscles.

Christopher Zook 1:27:18 Mm.

Tony Robbins 1:27:18 Decide.

Christopher Zook 1:27:19 Mm-hmm.

Tony Robbins 1:27:20 And the more you decide, the stronger you get. But this OOCMR, knowing my outcomes, 'cause that's what it's about, value clarification. Knowing my options, knowing the consequences, evaluating probability, mitigating to come up with a better solution, and resolving, that's the six steps that I use and teach people.

Christopher Zook 1:27:35 And every single thing he just talked about applies to finances and investment management 100%. So if somebody doesn't know what they're trying to achieve, are they trying to make a 30% return or a 3% return? If they don't know why that's important, if they're not s- willing to take the volatility that it takes, and they don't look at the probability-adjusted outcome of that investment, then they can't make a good decision. Which is why, going back to what I said earlier, it's all about investing based on percentages, not on dollars. If somebody's like, "Uh, it's a million dollars. That's a lot of money," it is a lot of money, and that, you don't wanna lose it, but if it's 1% of your portfolio and it goes to zero, that's gonna suck, but it's not gonna be fatal, right? So it's a liberating and it's freeing for somebody to be able to be much more analytical, less emotional, and every single professional investor will say the same thing. Emotion is the enemy to investment success, period. So you have to be clinical, and you have to remove the emotion, and the only way to do that is have a consistent process that is based on percentages that say, "Okay, if this happens, I can live with it, and if that worst case I can live with, the upside will take care of itself." And all of that applies exactly what Tony just described.

Chris Williamson 1:28:43 Heck yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:28:44 Boys, I appreciate both of you. Where should people go to find out more about what's going on?

Christopher Zook 1:28:48 So he, he's got a whole lot of different places you can go.

Chris Williamson 1:28:50 [laughs]

Christopher Zook 1:28:50 Ours is simple, cazinvestments.com. That's where you can learn everything about what we're doing as a firm, and obviously he's got all the various things he's involved in.

Tony Robbins 1:28:57 Tonyrobbins.com, and you can see, see any of the businesses that we're involved in. And we've got an event coming up, uh, shortly here. We do only a few events a year now, really large ones. We have 17,000 people here in Miami for four days called Unleash the Power Within. So if anybody's interested in that, they can reach out to us as well.

Christopher Zook 1:29:13 Well, and I can just tell you this, having gone through the tape series in 1991 and not going to my first, you know, opportunity to go to a live event until 2013, don't wait that long.

Tony Robbins 1:29:24 [laughs]

Christopher Zook 1:29:24 Folks that, that like and, and follow Tony and have learned a lot from Tony, go to a live event. It's completely different than anything that you could expect to do just through the tape. It was life-changing for me, and I know many other people-

Chris Williamson 1:29:36 What date's that?

Christopher Zook 1:29:36 ... it's the same way.

Tony Robbins 1:29:38 What date is it?

Christopher Zook 1:29:38 Yeah.

Tony Robbins 1:29:38 It's coming up in November. I think it's, uh, 4th, 5th, and 6th.

Christopher Zook 1:29:41 Yes.

Chris Williamson 1:29:41 Heck yeah. Boys, I appreciate both of you, and thanks for having us on.

Christopher Zook 1:29:43 Thank you so much for having us. We appreciate it.

Tony Robbins 1:29:45 Good to be with you again. [upbeat music]

Chris Williamson 1:29:46 Thank you very much for tuning in. If you enjoyed that episode, the algorithm is certain that you're gonna enjoy this one as well. Go on, give it a watch.