Modern WisdomThe Trades You Make to Live Your Dreams - I Prevail
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,014 words- 0:00 – 11:14
The Comeback: Why Rock & Metal are Rising from the Ashes
- CWChris Williamson
Why did you get deep-throated by Confetti?
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Oh, my God. (laughs)
- GHGabe Helguera
(laughs) That is up-to-date research right there.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Yeah, wow.
- GHGabe Helguera
I respect that.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Yeah. So, um, yeah, Gabe, uh, really crushes it with our content and comes up with some awesome ideas, and we kinda pitch some and throw it into a pot and, and, uh, he ca- we came in for a content day and wrote this whole script up, and it was for this giveaway we were doing, and he had written in the script that he was gonna get pied in the face. And then Dylan shows up, and, I don't know, he just changed his mind on the spot and was like, "Yeah, Dylan's gonna get pied."
- GHGabe Helguera
I gotta be the guy behind the camera, so someone else has gotta take the pie, so we pil- we, we pied Dylan in the face quite a bit.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Mm-hmm.
- GHGabe Helguera
And, uh, from, from that night, Dylan plotted his revenge for pie and confetti in Eric's face.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
And I got to, you know, shout out We Came as Romans, 'cause they went along with it. We get into their trailer and I get a text, and they have this ritual before their show, it's whiskey time, and they go, you know, we have this little ritual and, like, "Get to the trailer now. Whiskey time." So I'm walking in going, "Whiskey time! Whiskey time!" Pie. Pied again, and now I can't see, and my mouth's open, and I'm just like, "Whiskey time!" And as soon as I said "time", I couldn't see anything and I just got a mouthful of I didn't know what, and then, uh, yeah, I couldn't breathe for a little bit and the uvula in the back of my throat turned into a disco ball. It was like, it was pretty great.
- GHGabe Helguera
Title of your, uh, autobiography.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
The uvula in my throat.
- GHGabe Helguera
A Mouthful of I Don't Know What.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Yeah (laughs)
- GHGabe Helguera
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
I trademarked that. I'm taking that.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Yeah. Uh, well, I don't know, man. I feel like having a confetti bukkake is a good way to start a show.
- GHGabe Helguera
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Yeah. Yeah. I think it might have to be a ritual, just not on me this time, you know? Dylan's, Dylan, you, you're owed one.
- GHGabe Helguera
There's gonna be some-
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Payback.
- GHGabe Helguera
... behind the scenes warfare, for sure. This will, this will start a two-year war.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay. This is the beginning of a, a vicious retributive cycle.
- GHGabe Helguera
Yes. Definitely.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Wow.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, I wanna know what you guys make of what's happening with the rock and metal scene at the moment. Because a lot of artists are rethinking touring. There's some reports that have come out recently that I've read. Uh, pop, hip hop, country, uh, little touch and go, some in decline, and certainly if you aggregate it, a lot in decline. But rock touring seems to be bigger than ever. So give me your thoughts. Like you guys been around for a minute.
- 11:14 – 19:35
Why Does Metal Resonate So Deeply?
- GHGabe Helguera
- CWChris Williamson
Well, yeah, do you think the messaging-
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... the messaging of metal is, uh, tapping into an emotion that's difficult for people to find catharsis with elsewhere?
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah, uh, I, yeah, I think so. Um, there's some of these, like, very heavy metal bands and, like, just, you know, you look at the lyrics, you listen to the lyrics it's just, like, very fucked up and aggressive. And I think it's just a healthy way to, you know, it's, it's human emotion. It's, it's, it's, you know, you're feeling that. Uh, it's just a healthy way, I feel like, to get that out, especially when you're in a, a small club with 200 people listening to some Ass Beater breakdowns over and over and over just screaming about the most, like, dark, dark message, dark, dark stuff, you know? Like (laughs) The Acacia Strain is one band that had some real, like, hateful lyrics back in the day and it, it's just, you know, I don't feel that way. I don't feel like, you know, chopping people up or whatever, Cannibal Corpse or anything like that. But to feel, to feel that health- in a healthy way I guess-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- GHGabe Helguera
... is, um, something I think especially
- CWChris Williamson
Well, it's certainly elevated if you look at, like, a Sleep Token or a Bad Omens now, uh-... the message is just, like, poetic emo.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Mm-hmm.
- GHGabe Helguera
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Right? It's, uh, Ohio is for Lovers for 2025.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Yeah, exactly. (laughs)
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
You know? Like, "I'm outside of your window," like that-
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
It's that sad, Nicky FM-y type thing that we all grew up listening to.
- GHGabe Helguera
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
But just, like, significantly elevated with much more sophisticated production.
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, uh, but it still speaks to, "Huh, I have challenges, and sometimes they're hard, and nobody understands me, and this is difficult, and I don't know what I'm doing, and there is pressure, and I'm growing up and things are changing." It's like-
- GHGabe Helguera
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... these timeless, modern problems.
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like I had the gift of reconnecting with the emotion of metal this year in, in particular, 'cause I'll be honest, like, I've been in this band for eight years and, at this point I'm 33 years old and I'm like, yeah, you know, like, the f- the emotions that I had when I was 14 are, are different now.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- GHGabe Helguera
Right? And I'm kinda like, am I gonna sing about being really stressed about work and (laughs) -
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- GHGabe Helguera
... you know, being married for 11 years or whatever?
- CWChris Williamson
I have too many Slack messages. (laughs)
- GHGabe Helguera
(laughs) Yeah, dude, exactly. My inbox is a nightmare.
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- 19:35 – 27:41
Turning Chaos into Connection: How Bands Tell Personal Stories Together
- CWChris Williamson
What is the process of writing records which deal with deeply emotional personal topics like that as a group? Because, it's like, well, I'm the guy that sings the words, but I'm the guy that makes the melody, but I'm like, "I feel sad, but I feel ambivalent, but I'm uncertain. I've got, you know, I'm excited," or whatever.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And you're trying to... I- I spoke to the guys from Underoath. I think there's an increasing trend of, um, solo acts masquerading as bands-
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... or, uh, bands that sort of perform, uh, publicly as a, uh, democracy, but in terms of production, it's much sort of closer to a dictatorship. And, in some ways I can see why that is a huge fucking hack because you don't have to do any of this diplomacy bullshit.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
It's like, "This is what the song's about, this is how the song's gonna sound. You want to track on the record and help me cut it, brilliant. If not, I got fucking 50 people that are gonna come and do it, sweet."
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, but you often have the opportunity to tap into different people's emotions. So is that, is that tough? You got, what, 10 tracks on a new album and you're like, "There's not a lot of room for ton of guys to get their creative, you know, like, uh, presentation out there."
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Yeah. Yeah. I, um, I- I think being with these guys for the last (laughs) 10, 11 so years, it's, it's, uh, that was a huge plus to sit down in a room and be like, "Well, okay, we start working on an instrumental for a song, let's say, and it's kind of pulling at this emotion," and, you know, I'll pull out some lyric notes and, "Okay, this, this line that I wrote a while ago, this kind of feels like it matches the mood of the instrumental," and, "Okay, well, when I was in this headspace," and, and there's certain songs we sat down, I was like, "You know what? I- I think I can really pull from this," and, you know, maybe, let's say, it was a- a- a- a bad relationship I was going through years ago, and, you know, they were around me when that was going on, so it's not like super foreign to them and... Sit down and kind of like write some lyrics out, and this is kind of what I was feeling, this is kind of what I was, what I was going through. And, and if you can tap into that and you have something similar, like bounce some ideas off each other, and kind of like we all kind of feel... There's... E- everyone's got, you know, unique stories, but there's some overlap, and if you can tap into that and- and help, you know, generate some lyrics out of that, you know, I- I'm sure there's gonna be something that overlaps. So, you know, I'm just thinking one sp- song specifically, but...
- CWChris Williamson
How do you? Have you ever contributed any lyrics, ever?
- GHGabe Helguera
Um, maybe a single word.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah. So, we, so, we joke that we are business metal. And so, that translates to the writing process as well, where it's like we kind of have these different departments, right? So, um, me and Jon, I would say, we're more in the instrumental department.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh.
- GHGabe Helguera
'Cause I- I'm not trying to play in a sandbox that I don't belong in, you know? I'm like, "Hey, I grew up..." Like, I played in so many bands and even then, it's like, I can write some, like, cool instrumental parts or like suggest cool things and obviously play drums well and write cool drum parts. I'm not a poet. I'm not like... I'm happy to talk about my feelings, but if you're like, "Now make it, like, artistic."
- CWChris Williamson
Right.
- GHGabe Helguera
I'm like, "Uh, I can hit things hard."
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
(laughs)
- GHGabe Helguera
"That's my art." Um, and so yeah, and then Steve and Eric are- are really good at, like, yeah, like, to Eric's point, me and Jon, really all of us in the room, too, contribute to the instrumental. But might set a vibe and that vibe might create an emotion in Steve or Eric of something that they've been dealing with in the past or recently.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- GHGabe Helguera
And the two of 'em will, like, will almost sometimes separate. The two of them will, like, go in a different part of the room and just go back and forth. And sometimes it'll be Eric, like, "Here's what I'm trying to say," and the two of them will try to figure out how do we get to say that in the most artistic way possible, or- or the most authentic way possible.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- GHGabe Helguera
And then meanwhile, me and Jon will try to keep laying down, like, the foundation and come up with parts that we think are cool and then kind of come back together. And yeah, there are some times where I'm just sitting there, like, watching them do their thing, and there are some times where Eric's just sitting there, like-
- CWChris Williamson
Checking.
- GHGabe Helguera
... watching me be like, "Okay, move the snare drum over one note. And then hit this cymbal like thi-" You know? It's like it can get very tedious, but...
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah. It's, uh, departmental for sure.
- CWChris Williamson
When you, or when any band creates something deeply emotional, and then performs it a few hundred or thousand times, does it still resonate in the same way? Does that drop over time? Does it heal you? Does it reopen old wounds?
- 27:41 – 47:56
Are AI Music Artists Taking Over?
- CWChris Williamson
Going back to the metal world of sort of rock ascendancy that we're seeing at the moment, do you think that you need to be really talented to be a sort of world touring alternative artist now? How m- basically, how much of it is talent and how much can you ride off the back of social media hype and good marketing?
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
I had no talent when I was starting this thing. (laughs) I, I didn't belong out here, man. I, I just took, like... I feel like every room I was in I was, I had this mentality to just be a sponge, just soak up as much as you can, and I think that got me (laughs) through the first, you know, years of touring and all that. But, um, I do, I do think it takes... You know, you, you can go in off the hype and off the TikToks and off all that, but you have to quickly figure your shit out real fast. If you're up on stage and, and there's so many variables, you're not just posting a video of you playing. There's so many variables of, of a live set. And I mean, (laughs) even like the thing where I'm looking out in a crowd and I see up in the front row and someone doesn't know the words to the song and they're just, m- you know, fish mouthing like just random lyrics. I've, I've fucked up lyrics because I was looking at that guy-
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
... like what is he saying? Oh shit, what am I saying?
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Oh, what verse am I in? Where am I? You know. But, um, yeah, yeah, I think there's, man, I think there's a, a good mix you...
- CWChris Williamson
It's unforgiving then in that regard, like the, the, the hype-
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... can kind of only carry you so far?
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah, I'd argue that you need a good product. Right?
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Yeah.
- GHGabe Helguera
So like you can... First of all, I'd argue that you need a lot of talent to be good at marketing and to... 'Cause you're not, the, the labels and all that, like, they, they will provide that for you, but like I ultimately think the bands that are doing the best are the ones who understand how to market themselves. So, one, I'd argue that's a skill. Two, if the product is shitty, right? Like, Chris, if this podcast sucks but you're really good at marketing, like, sure you're gonna get it in front of a few more people, but at the end of the day people aren't gonna come back, and now you're working your ass off to just market a shitty product.
- CWChris Williamson
Right.
- GHGabe Helguera
That's not really gonna work. So like, I, I do think especially in today's landscape, like, how it used to be is bands would get discovered by a label, they explode. Like it's very, it was very gatekept, right?
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- GHGabe Helguera
And, but if you were through, you were through, and you, all you had to do is like show up and play music. And now, you could upload a song to Spotify right now while we're having this conversation, put in a prompt into AI and then upload it to Spotify, right? So like, the landscape is more competitive than ever, which I think means that bands who are not always like... There's plenty of very talented bands who don't get traction, but-It's very competitive. You need to have, like, very good songs, very good marketing. Like, you have to be more well-rounded than ever- Mm-hmm.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Um.
- GHGabe Helguera
... as opposed to, "Hey, I'm just, like, a good musician." That might not really get you noticed much.
- CWChris Williamson
What do you make of the advent of AI artists?
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Oh, man. Don't get me started. (laughs) I, um, it's- it's a s- it's a little frightening, man. Um, you know, just came across, a friend of mine went on a rant and posted all these bands on Spotify that were, you know, AI bands. And whether it's a band that's feeding prompts and getting it and playing it or to it's one guy that just used ChatGPT, Grok, whatever, to create everything.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
And then you go look at the monthly listeners, and there's 700,000 monthly listeners. And it's- it's not the fear that someone's gonna go, "I'd rather listen to this AI band over, you know, a- a real human band." It's the fact that it's just gonna get slipped into playlisting, and it's just gonna be on your playlists, and it's just gonna just accumulate more and more of all these other fake bands. And by the time you go and look through your playlists, you're like, "Oh, who's this? Who's this? Who's this?" And then there's no real musicians. But my ultimate worry is that, you know, who's to say that someone who owns a streaming platform, um, doesn't just start making music off AI himself or herself and- and feeding it into the playlisting, and now there's even less of the pie. You know, artists are getting, you know, fractions of a penny on the dollar for streams. Well, now that, those playlists that these bands are fighting hard for, who's to say the- the CEOs of, you know, s- Apple Music, Spotify, Tidal, whatever, aren't just making their own music, feed it into the algorithm, putting in the place, you know, into the playlisting and now (laughs) how are we supposed to fight that? Huh?
- CWChris Williamson
It would be like, uh, OnlyFans owning the AI girlfriend generator.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Exactly. (laughs) Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
'Cause then you've got the distribution and you've got the source material as well.
- GHGabe Helguera
100%.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Yeah.
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah. It's a tricky balance because in one way I'm like, (sighs) you can't, very difficult to stop a train that's already moving, right? But then also, kind of like what I was talking about with concerts, I'm like, I think people are craving more physical experiences or, um, people to connect with, right? Like, I think, I think it'll be an interesting balance of like, yeah, an AI song could come on, and you might not know it's AI and you might not really care that it's AI 'cause it's like, well, the song's good. But I wonder, like, even if that has like a- a huge boom, that it wouldn't end up going to the other side of like, yeah, but I kind of miss connecting with an artist or with a band or like what they actually had to say, you know? Or like if it's AI, there's nothing to really, not much to really connect with, you know? Um, all that said, (laughs) yeah, I don't know. W- we'll see what happens. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Well, look, I- I saw, um, what about two months ago, there was a bunch of screenshots floating around. Maybe it was the new terms and ser- terms of service that Spotify had that sounded like an adjustment had been made to say that your music can be used in data training sets-
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Mm-hmm.
- 47:56 – 59:56
Why the Creative Process Feels So Freeing
- CWChris Williamson
What are some of the other secrets that the music industry should be talking about but isn't?
- GHGabe Helguera
I think (laughs) that kind of like what I was saying of how competitive things are, it's not, for the most part, enough to just be a good band anymore. I think you need to be very multifaceted in having your departments in the business, right? So like for example, if we use I Prevail!, for example, we all do our music thing. We all have our own weird skills. This guy can yell really loud and that's like a cool skill, right?
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- GHGabe Helguera
But for me, okay, like my department is cool, I can play drums, but I'm also have a ton of experience, uh, growing an organic content media machine or team or whatever that is, and marketing and backend business and growing the merch sales or whatever that is, right? And then we have our guitar player, Steve, who's very in like-... the accounting business management world. Yeah, he's a really good lead guitar player, but he's also, like, a nerd on Excel, right? And it's like, you- you kind of have to have these, like, other facets that contribute to the overall project. And outside of that, I would just say, I used to think that being in a band was like showing up and playing drums and like performing, and someone just, like, hands you a check and it's like, "Oh, cool," like, "Thanks, I played the show, I got paid. See you later." But it's like, oh, actually there are these nine different arms of how you can make money, but before it comes to you, it's going to go a percenta- 10%'s gonna go over here, th- for the person who booked the tour, 20% is gonna go to just the general manager who just handles business stuff. Then all of your music is gonna s- get split into three different arms of publishing and then people who try to put it on, like, friggin' video games and stuff, and whatever your Spotify cut is, and then how much goes to the label as opposed to the people who wrote the songs. And it's like this ginormous (laughs) spider web of money going to a million different people, and then you're here at the bottom and you're just like, "Ah! (laughs) But I'm trying to catch as much as I possibly can."
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- GHGabe Helguera
That, uh, is a- it's just so complex, right? Like for- I'm- I'm sure it's complex for you too, and I oversimplify it, but I'm like, you do a brand deal and they're like, "Cool, here you go. Here's your monthly or yearly-"
- CWChris Williamson
Mine is significantly-
- GHGabe Helguera
"... whatever."
- CWChris Williamson
... significantly more simple. But that is because I've done the equivalent of remaining independent as an artist.
- GHGabe Helguera
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, I'm not signed. I've never ever been signed to any network. I'm not owned by a media agency. Uh, I'm not even signed- I don't even have an agent.
- GHGabe Helguera
Wow.
- CWChris Williamson
So, like, everything is just me. Everything is bootstrapped.
- GHGabe Helguera
Dude, that's crazy. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Everything is bootstrapped.
- GHGabe Helguera
Man, that's crazy.
- CWChris Williamson
The tour that we put together, bootstrapped. The team that we put together, bootstrapped. Everything. Like, w- we booked our own tour manager. Like, this is not-
- GHGabe Helguera
Wow.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. So, um, that means that there's a lot more effort that has to go in on the front end, but there's so much more control on the back end.
- GHGabe Helguera
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
If you're like, oh, the- s- something isn't working out with whatever partner this is, w- the- whatever member of staff this is, whatever contract we have, there's no obligation-
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... um, beyond loyalty, which counts for a lot, but, you know, there's no- there's less fuckery. And it is- it is wild to see people just want to go and hear good music from their band that are happy and healthy and playing a show, and hopefully well enough remunerated to keep doing it. Uh, and there's just a lot of holes in the Swiss cheese slice, uh, that you don't get to see. And, uh, and I- I- I hope that- it doesn't seem at the moment, at least the genres that I'm interested in, you guys, uh, and your cohort, doesn't seem like that many people feel like they're eating shit because I think live is going so well for so many people. Um, but yeah, if I was a big hip hop fan of something, maybe I'd feel differently. Maybe I'd be worried about the sort of upcoming hip hop artists and whether or not they can make money like they used to back in the day or something.
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
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- GHGabe Helguera
And, you know, then the- the tough part about being in a band too, and I don't want to, like, complain about money. My- my- I'm not trying to complain about money, I'm just trying to say, like, I think it's important to understand how the backend of the business works, and like, yes, now you can be independent if you want to. Like, you can. Like, there are plenty of Spotify artists who have- they made a good product, their song i- their songs are good, and they m- develop the skill of organic content or paid ads or mar- I mean, probably not paid ads as much, but like, yeah, marketing themselves.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- GHGabe Helguera
If you have a good product and you can market yourselves and you can push people to the right, you know, whatever you want that to be, buy- buy tickets or go stream the song, like, you can simplify the whole process and just get really good at team building, which is what I assume is the skill that you've had to build (laughs) t- to do it all independent.
- CWChris Williamson
Get horrendous out of it, yeah.
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah.
- 59:56 – 1:07:50
Why We Turn to Music When Life Gets Overwhelming
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
- CWChris Williamson
What have you learned about navigating a, a career in an industry that's ripe with burnout and crisis and recovery and stuff like that?
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Oh man. Um, for me personally, being on the road specifically, when we do like, you know, three and a half weeks in Europe and then we have two days at home, and then we do a six-week, uh, tour in the States and then we're home for a month, and we go back to Australia for three weeks, and then your, your time zones are all fucked up and, and being lost on, on tour just, you know, that, that burnout feel, you know? Um, for me personally, it's like trying to find those days off when we have 'em, uh, to feel like a human again. Like I'm, I'm big into, uh, certain trading card games, collecting records and, you know, finding bars or coffee shops that I've been to when we had a day off in that city prior. So to, to step away off the bus and go explore a city on my own or go, uh, meet up with some friends or other people on tour and play cards or, you know, find a bar or record shop, doing something that makes you feel like a person again-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
... uh, has definitely helped that, that, you know, four weeks into a, you know, seven-week tour or whatever it is, it's like feeling like a human again is very important. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
So having those hobbies and having those things to, to distract yourself from the, the, the mental fatigue has, uh, been huge for me.
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah, I mean, I think, like...Being on the road is, uh, a gift in so many ways, and you know, like, a, a dream come true, and also, right, like, life happens when, when you are on the road, and you miss it. Like, people die, right? Our, our, we've all lost family members while being on the road, and finding out, I mean, fr- friends and family members, I mean, you'll find out a couple hours before you have to go play, and (laughs) you're like, "Okay, I just found out that a huge piece of my life was, is now gone, and now I have to go, like, in front of thousands of people and..." You know, not that we played smiley music, so it's not like I have to, like, put on a smile, but-
- GUGuest
Mm.
- GHGabe Helguera
... man, you have to, you have to get through some shit. And that might be in the midst of tension in the band, or overall fatigue from tour, where you're like, already, you're physically drained, you're mentally drained. You're in your 30s living with eight other grown men, men in a bus the size of this room for months at a time. (laughs) You haven't seen your family for months at a time. Uh, tragedy happens. Like, it is a lot. (laughs) And I, and also, like, on the road, there have been so many of, like, I think collectively our lowest moments, but it's also coupled with these moments that are so unique that I personally could never get, and once it's done, it's done. Like, for example, like, the, the creativity of creating a song. I'm just like, I won't, I don't think I'm gonna find that somewhere else. Or performing in front of people and being, like, part of a collective experience. Like, sorry, Eric, I... there have been many moments in my time with the band where I'm like, "Is this really what I wanna do?"
- GUGuest
Mm.
- GHGabe Helguera
Like, I am exhausted from the chaos. I miss (laughs) being home. I love being home. Uh, like, "Is this really what I wanna do?" But I think there's these things where it's like, but once it's done, it, it's, it's done. And also, yes, like, there are times where there's, like, tension in the band, but also, you form, (laughs) you trauma bond together (laughs) as, as a group, you know? Where when people really need it, like, you are there for each other, and like, there's never another time in my life where I'm gonna ha- be able to have sleepovers with my 30-year-old bros. You know what I mean?
- GUGuest
(laughs)
- GHGabe Helguera
But on tour, like, every night, it's like, "After the show, I'll see you in the back lounge."
- GUGuest
Silly bus time? (laughs)
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah, silly bus time is what we call it. Uh, it's just kinda coming down from the adrenaline, cracking a ton of jokes-
- GUGuest
(laughs)
- GHGabe Helguera
... and then going right to sleep. It's a sleepover, you know?
- GUGuest
Yeah, yeah.
- GHGabe Helguera
But yeah, it's, uh, emotional whiplash all the time.
- GUGuest
Yeah. And, and t- what you're saying about going up and having some kinda loss or turmoil back home, and, and trying to navigate that, and then an hour later, you're going on stage. I- i- it's, it's important, es- eh, especially being the performer or singing the words, putting on a show, to remember that, you know, this may be the one concert that that kid is going to all year long, or this, uh, these people, these fans, these, this group are, is, is trying to escape whatever's going on in their life, whether it's all the political stuff they're fed up with seeing online, whether it's their own family issues, whether it's, y- you know, loss, whatever it may be, this is their moment where they're coming for three, four hours to forget all of that and to have a good time, drink some beers with their friends, shout the lyrics back to y- to us, and, and, and forget everything. So i- it's also keeping that in mind when we go on stage. Like, this is just as much our moment having fun up here as your moment, y- you know, your once this month or once this year getting to, to release, or, or exercise some demons in the pit, or to just forget about all the, the bullshit that they have going on at home. And then, you know, having to remember that when you're going through something (laughs) yourself to go up there and go, "All right. This is for them." You know? Put, put the show, we call it putting, getting into our showies. Like, (laughs) you're, you're, you've got the-
- GHGabe Helguera
Severance.
- GUGuest
(laughs)
- GHGabe Helguera
It's your innie and your outie. It's, like-
- GUGuest
Mm.
- GHGabe Helguera
... our normie and our showie.
- GUGuest
Yeah. (laughs) So it's time to zip into our showie and, and get out there and give, give everyone the show that they wanna, they, they deserve, you know? Well, that's what's called being a professional. Right? Like, you know, if you're a, a firefighter and you've had a big argument and a sleepless night with the wife last night, or arguing or something-
- GHGabe Helguera
Mm-hmm.
- GUGuest
It's like, uh, y- I'm not equating rockstars and firefighters in terms of importance-
- GHGabe Helguera
Thank you. (laughs)
- 1:07:50 – 1:26:08
The Hidden Costs of Success
- CWChris Williamson
something I'm interested in, you mentioned just like a, it's a sleepover with your bros in your 30s, everybody's aging, right? Everybody's getting older. Uh, at least a bunch of you are married or in relationships, or maybe all of you are. So I'm interested in how you navigate that as everybody grows up. Because people have personal lives that aren't going to be as negotiable as they used to be. You don't choose when your kid's born.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
Your big band, tons of sperm, means lots of potential road bumps-
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... for people to navigate. So you're gonna have to say, "Hey, darling, um, I know that you're really keen on having a, a, a, a baby next year. The marriage, the wedding was wonderful. Thank you for allowing us to slot it in between Australia and the, the second run on the U, US tour. Um, we're not gonna be able to start trying until late July, um, because we've got this new amphitheater run that we've got that's lined up." And you know, I, uh, like, surely this is something that's in the back of your guys' minds as you start to plan your personal future, and then how does this work with blending the band?
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Yeah, I mean, (laughs) I'm going through right now planning our wedding in next spring, and, (laughs) and just constantly reminding the guys, like, "Hey, check the calendar. Uh, we got a tour offer? When is that tour offer again? Okay, cool, cool, cool. All right, I have a week, then get married." But, uh, yeah, that's, that's, um... I think it's something that we don't talk about, but we all feel and, and know. It's in the back of our mind. Like, our guitarist, Steve, just had a kid three years ago. It was during when we were, uh, recording our, our last record. And he went off and Melissa had the baby, and then they, uh, we released the record and went on the road shortly after that. So, you know, he, missing the, the f- you know, early, early years of, of, uh, his child's, child's life, and it's difficult trying to plan around life events, major life events like that. But, you know, we, we try our best, between the, the five of us to plan things, (laughs) uh, th- the intimate parts of our lives in, in our, our little group. And, and, uh, you know, if someone's gotta fly home for a weekend, we try to slot some, some time, you know, days off where it's, "Okay, you can fly home this weekend. All right, cool, we'll meet up with you in, you know, three stops from now." And, but yeah, it's something that I think, I don't know if we have it mastered, but it's, it's something that we, (laughs) I don't wanna say struggle with, but it's something that is a, a difficult thing to, to have our, our personal lives and tho- those huge moments, and, you know, having a kid or getting married or, you know, friends' weddings, standing-in-weddings, what, whatever it may be, is, uh, it's, it's a challenge. It definitely is a challenge.
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah, I think it's like you're, you're trading sacrifices, right? So in the early days, the sacrifice is I'm gonna go out and tour for nine months of the year and make $12, right? That's the sacrifice, and you make it, and then that, that stops to be, that stops being the sacrifice. It's like, "Oh, we're, we're touring, touring less, and I'm making more than $12, so okay, cool." But then, yeah, as you get older, there's more sacrifice in a, in a different way. Your parents are getting older. Thinking about having kids. How, how do you navigate that? How do you navigate a marriage where it's long distance? That's pretty uncommon.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- GHGabe Helguera
But also in some ways, like, I think with any sacrifice, it's difficult, but also there are gifts inside all of it, right? Because what a lot of people experience, kind of like to what you were saying earlier, is of like, oh, their jobs suck all the time. Like, you are, you might always be with your spouse, and never kind of have that opportunity to truly miss your spouse. Like, some people just never have the opportunity to actually miss their spouse.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- GHGabe Helguera
Which is interesting.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- GHGabe Helguera
And there is like a gift in that of, "I'm gonna be gone, and I'm gonna have this opportunity to desperately miss you, and to have reconnection time," which, yes, can sometimes be an adjustment, (laughs) right? For sure. Uh, I, I heard you talk to the Underoath guys about this, very relatable of, yeah, you might come home and your spouse is like, "I was kinda used to living here by myself," right? And now-
- CWChris Williamson
Well, yeah, your, your, your partner is saying to you, "I know that you've come back, and you immediately want me to drop into this life that you've imagined."
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
"But I've had to create a life where I can cope with the distance of you being away."
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Yup.
- CWChris Williamson
Like, so, yeah, I've walled myself off-
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... a little bit. Yeah, maybe I'm not as, as soft or accommodating as you might like me to be, because you've been playing shows for six weeks in front of a few thousand people, and I'm fucking about on the bus with your friends."
- GHGabe Helguera
Mm-hmm.
- EVEric Vanlerberghe
Right.
- GHGabe Helguera
Yeah, totally. And you, you're both coping in your own ways, right? And I'm coping by laughing my ass off with my friends, right? And, uh, in, yeah, this weird way where ... And everything is kind of handed to you on the road, you know? Um, but then coming home, it's like those coping mechanisms don't work (laughs) in a marriage, where it's like, "Yes, I want time, and I want this and I want this." It's like, well, this is not really a marriage. Like, that's not a give-and-take. That's just a take.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- GHGabe Helguera
Um, but yeah, I do think, like, what that opens up then is more conversations to grow closer and be like, "Hey, like, this isn't actually working when I'm gone," or, "It's actually not working when I come back." Like, how can we-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- GHGabe Helguera
... navigate this together and use it as an opportunity to grow closer or to create systems in our family, or any of my relationships, to make this work better?... uh, without completely overstretching both of ourselves and-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- GHGabe Helguera
... you know.
Episode duration: 2:43:16
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