Modern WisdomTravelling, Steroids & How To Build An Audience - Mike Thurston | Modern Wisdom Podcast 249
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,005 words- 0:00 – 4:02
Intro
- MTMike Thurston
If somebody is, in their head, convinced that you take steroids, it's almost impossible to change their mind. And the thing that annoys me is when people message me and being like, "I used to think you were such a role model, but now that I know that you're not natural, I just ..."
- CWChris Williamson
Because of some guys we know on YouTube?
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah. There's a lot of people who are taking gear and they don't look that great. Now, let's say for example, I'm one of those people, I'm taking a lot of gear and I look okay. And then I see a physique like mine and I'll be like, "God, if this is what I look like and I'm taking all this, imagine what he's taking." They cannot comprehend that I'm actually not taking anything at all.
- CWChris Williamson
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. I'm joined by the one and only ...
- MTMike Thurston
Mikey T's in the building.
- CWChris Williamson
Michael Thurston, how are you?
- MTMike Thurston
I'm good. Loving life in Dubai right now. Can't complain.
- CWChris Williamson
So good to see you. The last time that we saw each other, when was that?
- MTMike Thurston
It was in Ibiza.
- CWChris Williamson
Ibiza.
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
We keep on bumping in- into each other in fuckboy cities, don't we?
- MTMike Thurston
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah, it was a ... It was a brief meeting up, but obviously Ibiza was very different this year, so ...
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. How long were you out there for?
- MTMike Thurston
From July until mid-October. It was ... It was definitely an interesting year, but in a way it was a good thing because there was less temptation. I got to, to explore the island and train, keep on track with my eating, sleeping. So it was, it was a nice little break from Dubai.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. And now you're back here six months?
- MTMike Thurston
Yes. Until May, at least. The plan is, Dubai's gonna be my base for the next few years 'cause I do like it. It's got everything I need. Very suitable for what I want, my lifestyle. The only problem I have with it is the summer is absolutely brutal. Like it is so, so-
- CWChris Williamson
Unbearable.
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah. And I, I'm the type of person that likes to be outside. I like to sit outside, eat outside, walk, and you just can't really do that when it gets too hot. So from ... definitely June until August it's not the best place to be. So I kind of dip out and will most likely return back to Europe.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. Got any ideas where you're gonna be next year?
- MTMike Thurston
I like Spain a lot, but I'm gonna plan closer to the summer, because last year, or this year should I say, I planned everything way too far in advance. And obviously all this madness happened and it was just chaos. I basically paid for my accommodation in Ibiza upfront, expecting to have the best summer of my life as I turned 30 years old.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- MTMike Thurston
And then I'm like, "Oh my God, what the hell am I supposed to do now?" Because I didn't even know if I'd be able to get into Spain-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- MTMike Thurston
... 'cause they closed the borders up until July. Uh, but because I'd paid for my accommodation in Spain, for that apartment, I was like, "Well, I'm gonna-"
- CWChris Williamson
Gonna make it work.
- MTMike Thurston
"... make the most out of it."
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- 4:02 – 11:27
A Normal Day for Mike
- MTMike Thurston
- CWChris Williamson
So what's a typical day look like for you? Uh, everybody that watches your vlogs will know that there's ... sometimes you're in a Lamborghini driving through the desert or you're skydiving or training with Larry Wheels or doing whatever. But what's a typical day or a typical week? Walk us through.
- MTMike Thurston
Every ... I would say every day is different. I think one of the things which I like most about my life now is I can wake up and I can decide what the hell I want to do with that day. So if I'm like, "Right, I want to make a video, I want to do a collab, or I want to do something new and exciting," I'll go off and I'll do it. But if the opposite is true and I'm like, "Well, do you know what? I just want to chill today and just go to the pool, go to the beach, relax, listen to a podcast or aud- audio book, take it easy," then that's what I'll do. So what I do on a day-to-day basis is dependent upon my mood and what my schedule looks like YouTube-wise. I guess YouTube is sort of dictating what I'm doing with my life at the moment. And what I'm trying to do is two videos a week. Sometimes I don't always stick to that schedule. Um, it just ... I don't want to put ... I don't want to rush something and put something out that's mediocre. I'd rather spend a bit more time on it and then put out a good video. Um, but yeah, every day is different.
- CWChris Williamson
How do you keep yourself disciplined? Because I'm come out to Dubai and my schedule's, like, all over the place. I don't know what time I'm supposed to be getting up, all of the structures and the routines that I usually rely on to make sure that I'm continuing to progress in different areas of my life, in the gym, in reading, in meditation, in recording, everything. Uh, it ... the difficulty level has been increased.
- MTMike Thurston
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
How do you ensure that you don't just get totally blown away by party lifestyle or a distraction lifestyle or a sightseeing new experience? Uh, how are you keeping yourself disciplined?
- MTMike Thurston
I think (laughs) the hardest thing I've found now is as my, sort of, following has grown, you get more and more people reaching out to you, more people that are wanting to meet up with you. And particularly in places like Ibiza and Dubai, there's a very active social scene and, you know, party scene. Um, and one of the biggest things which has been a game changer for me is just a lot of time just not drinking.Drinking is a recipe for just, uh, ruining everything. My productivity, my, my gym workouts, my sleep, everything. So, if I do go to any of these events or whatever, I'll most likely not drink most of the time. That's helped massively. Um, I've also found that, uh, usually what I'll do in the morning is I'll write a list, uh, of things which definitely 100% need to get done on that day.
- CWChris Williamson
Have you got any idea of what that was today or recently? Can you think of a list that you've written?
- MTMike Thurston
Uh, yes. So, I'm trying to think of yesterday. Yesterday was to film a workout with a guy called Brandon Harding and then after that was to do a little bit of video editing. Then to shoot some content for Myprotein because Black Friday's coming up and I need to do some promo for them. And then, just some boring admin stuff like emails and things like that. What I try and do is not make the list too long because I'm so good at making lists, and I'm quite terrible at ticking everything-
- CWChris Williamson
Doing the list. (laughs)
- MTMike Thurston
... off that list. So, uh, yeah, I just put, I just think, "Right, I can just do three or four things, just make sure that they're done." Try and get the hardest things done first.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- MTMike Thurston
I try... I find that I'm, like, way more productive in the morning. When I wake up, I can-
- CWChris Williamson
What's your typical wake-up time? I know it might change based on whether you've been out or not, but-
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah. So-
- CWChris Williamson
... when do you aim to get up for?
- MTMike Thurston
Luckily for me, I can wake up when I want and I don't have an alarm. Like, I wake up when my body wants to wake up. And the goal is to try and get seven to eight hours sleep. And the thing which I've noticed about Dubai, because the sun sets quite early, the days are short. So, I be- because there's a lot of stuff going on at night, uh, I don't want to be staying up too late because that means that I wake up later and then there's less of the day to take advantage of. So, I am trying to wake up at nine o'clock. It's not going very well. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
You messaged me last night at half four in the morning asking if we could push this back by four hours.
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- MTMike Thurston
So, this is the crazy thing about Dubai because we were... It was me, Louis, and then this other guy. We were like, "Oh, we're going to find somewhere, somewhere to eat." And there was this one place we had never tried before that's called London Project, which is just a walk away from mine. And I'd met someone in the gym who's invited me to go there because she knows the owner. I was like, "Okay, cool." So, I dropped her a message and said, "Oh, by the way, I'm going here." Uh, you know, kind of hoping that she would message the owner-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- MTMike Thurston
... of how to do that. So anyway, we went there. The owner turned out to be there. He introduced himself, and then he gave us this, like, unbelievable service, food, drinks. Like, they were coming out with cocktails, even though I didn't want a drink. I maybe had a few, but my friend Louis, he had quite a lot.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- MTMike Thurston
And then it was, like, amazing, and that's when the night should have stopped. But the owner then came with, like, one of his coworkers and he'd had quite a few drinks and he was like, "Come. Come and sit with us." And I was just like, "No." Like, "This is mad."
- CWChris Williamson
What time is this?
- MTMike Thurston
This is probably about 12:30.
- CWChris Williamson
Going home time?
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah. So obviously, I didn't want to be rude and I was like, "Okay, well, I'll, I'll sit down." And then we all sit down, there's probably about eight of us just chatting away. And it turns out he's this massive, big-time guy from Australia who is the son of probably one of the wealthiest family, w- wealthiest families in Australia. So, we had this, like, unbelievable chat about so many different things. He's, like, doing lots of things, wants to get me involved, get Louis involved. And then the night just carried on till about 3:30 in the morning. And I kept saying to him, I was like, "Look, I've got a podcast the next day. Like, I need to go."
- CWChris Williamson
Important.
- 11:27 – 27:48
Asking Mike if He’s ‘Natural’
- MTMike Thurston
- CWChris Williamson
How sick are you of people asking if you're natural?
- MTMike Thurston
God. Now at this point I'm used to it because I've been getting it for like a decade. Like, but what I have noticed is, a lot of it is really dependent upon the type of content which I put out. So when I'm doing vlogs and day-to-day stuff, not many people talk about steroids or anything like that because the focus is on something else, like just happened in the video.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- MTMike Thurston
When it peaked, uh, recently was when I did, uh, a full week of training in Ibiza, my current split. Um, and I was at the gym training topless. I'd managed to get myself in probably one of the best conditions I've been in for a while. It's not that I was bigger, it was just that I was leaner. So obviously, when you get leaner, you have the, uh, appearance of looking bigger. But because when I was in the gym, I was topless-I was like, seriously pumped up, because my physique changes, it changes a lot from, you know, me-
- CWChris Williamson
Flat to pumped.
- MTMike Thurston
... pumped up. So I was just like, "Jesus, like that looks pretty damn crazy." And then the whole argument comes with, "Oh, is he natural? Is he not natural?" And then a few other big YouTubers started making videos on whether I'm natural or not.
- CWChris Williamson
Derek from More Plates More Dates.
- MTMike Thurston
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Greg Doucett. I think Greg Doucett did like three videos of me this summer, which is-
- CWChris Williamson
Easy views, man.
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah. So in a, in a way it's good because I get some publicity from him, but you know, if, if someone thinks I've taken something, most of the time they're always gonna think that. There's not really much I can do to change their mind. But the thing that annoys me is when people message me and they're like, "Oh, do you know, you, I used to think you were such a role model, but now that I know that you're not natural, I just..."
- CWChris Williamson
Because of some guy's video on YouTube?
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah. Because he has a proper cult following. People believe everything he says. And, uh-
- CWChris Williamson
What was his justification for why you're on gear?
- MTMike Thurston
(sighs) Because of the supposed low levels of body fat, which I have. He said I had 6% body fat, which is not true. No way do I have 6%.
- CWChris Williamson
What are you?
- MTMike Thurston
I would say most of the time hovering around 10, 11. But it's the distribution of where I hold my body fat. I don't have a huge amount on like my abs or like my torso area. It's like a lot of it is on my thighs and lower back. But he definitely eyed that wrong. And I think a lot of people a- a- assume that I hold, you know, that peak condition which I was in, they assume I'm like that all the time, but I'm not. You know, if I... There're times when I'm not looking my best, I just don't show it. I don't... Like, when I'm looking, like a little bit chubbier for me, I'm not gonna take a picture of myself like that. Or I'm gonna find, like the lighting where I look the best and then I'll show people. That's what people need to understand. Like when they see me in especially Instagram, if you see pictures of me topless, that is me when I'm looking my best. If I've been to the-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, in possession.
- MTMike Thurston
... if I've been to the gym, got a pump on, or I've found, like the right lighting, you know. I'm picking the best picture out of like 20 to 30 photos.
- CWChris Williamson
With a pro photographer?
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah. Somebody who knows what angle to get. So, that was that. Um, and did-
- CWChris Williamson
Does it irritate you? Does it, does it get to you?
- MTMike Thurston
It does when people say that I'm a liar. And the thing is, I've, I've never made a video addressing this because I, there is no universal test to prove that someone is natural. It doesn't exist. You, there's things you can do. You can take like a, the lie detector test. You can get blood work done. There's a few other things you can do as well. But it doesn't prove that you have never ever taken steroids. You know, if, if I'd done all those things, you know, and people would be like, "Okay, well maybe you're natural now, but maybe a year ago or for the, you know, from the age of 22 to 26, you were probably taking steroids to build a foundation and now you're not." So it's annoying. I wish that universal test did exist.
- CWChris Williamson
So you could take it?
- MTMike Thurston
So I could take it.
- CWChris Williamson
Would you take it? Do you take it if it was there?
- MTMike Thurston
I would take it 100%. And I would want everyone to take it because it would be nice to know who actually is natural and who's not.
- CWChris Williamson
Imagine how much Larry Wheels would break that test (laughs) .
- MTMike Thurston
I know. There's a, there's a lot of, there's a lot of people that would break that test.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- 27:48 – 35:22
Principles for Successful Training
- CWChris Williamson
get onto that, because after all of this time traveling, suboptimal environment, like, it doesn't matter how good the gym in Dubai is. It can't compensate for a 4:30 AM finish.
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And you're distracted with offers for collaborations with different people, a lot of which won't involve eating rice and broccoli and being in the gym.
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
So take us through, like, the principles that you use for training now.
- MTMike Thurston
So I think the, the most important thing for me is to just get the session done. Going to the gym and having a good session is the most important thing. The nutrition side of things, if you're eating, you know, at restaurants or cafes or you're on the move, it's not gonna be optimal, and that's, you know, it's just the way it is. I will try to get my protein in, you know, around-
- CWChris Williamson
What do you aim for?
- MTMike Thurston
... around s- 2- 210, 220 grams of protein a day.
- CWChris Williamson
And what do you weigh?
- MTMike Thurston
90s, 95 kilograms at the moment.
- CWChris Williamson
So it's about, round about 2, 2 grams.
- MTMike Thurston
Yes, 2., 2.2. I aim for 2, 2 grams per kilogram of body weight. So if I can get a good session in, get my protein in, yet the, my overall calorie intake for the day, uh, I won't know it exactly, but if I can hit roughly the, the right figure, then I'll be okay. I can maintain. Um-
- CWChris Williamson
So we've got compliance, aim to hit your protein.
- MTMike Thurston
It's the, the consistency of going to the gym. That's what most people suck at, because they go weeks or months with not going or they have shitty sessions. So there's that. Getting the protein in, the overall, overall calorie intake in. I don't ... Like, the fats and the carb ratio, that can vary. It doesn't matter a huge amount. Way m- way too many people get stressed out about that. Protein and overall calorie intake is the most important things, in my opinion. Um, and then getting a good night's sleep. A lot of people underestimate the power of sleep. And if I can do that, I can continue to look good. Also-
- CWChris Williamson
We haven't touched on ...
- MTMike Thurston
... I would also say the, the quality of the food has, uh, a big factor on the way you look and feel and perform. And one thing which I would say is not good for me is eating highly processed foods and the sugar.
- CWChris Williamson
What other place did you fall off with that?
- MTMike Thurston
Uh, (sighs) what do you mean?
- CWChris Williamson
Like, do you commonly eat, like, a croissant without thinking-
- MTMike Thurston
No, so, so I-
- CWChris Williamson
... if it's a dessert?
- MTMike Thurston
... I'm really good now because I think about ... I, I think one step ahead. You know, I'll think, "God, I would really love to eat this cookie," but I'm thinking about, "Okay, well how am I gonna feel after I eat this cookie?" And I know that when I eat something really sweet, I'll have, like, a bit of a crash and it makes me crave more of it afterwards. Like, that's messed up my palate for the rest of the day. If I have something sweet, I'm like, "Right, well all I want now is sweet stuff." Sugar's like cocaine.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- MTMike Thurston
You want more and more and more. So I know if I stay away from sugar-... and actually don't crave the sugar.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. So we haven't talked once there, the compliance or consistency with your training, the hitting your protein, getting it from the right sources, getting enough sleep-
- MTMike Thurston
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... and hitting your calories. Not once have we talked about push/pull legs, level of intensity, supersets, reps, weights, any of that stuff.
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And is that, that's purposeful? You're-
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah, I, I definitely think that's ... whether you're doing the drop set or superset or anything like that means you're getting more technical. But I think that's, in terms of the hierarchy of importance, that's, like, at the bottom.
- 35:22 – 41:18
Different Training Partners & Styles
- CWChris Williamson
Who is the most intense training partner that you've trained with?
- MTMike Thurston
God, that is a good question. Hmm. (laughs) There's one I did recently, this guy called Blessing The Boogeyman. I forgot his second name.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's terrifying.
- MTMike Thurston
So he's like, his form is pretty atrocious, but in terms of intensity, he's pretty, like, damn crazy. Um ... God, and then I, I did a session once with Dorian Yates. That was good fun. Like, when he's, like, coached, I didn't train with him. He was coaching me. But when he's there coaching and you're just like, "Well, I don't wanna look like a bitch in front of Dorian Yates, so I'm, I'm going to push myself." I really wanna have a leg day with Tom Platz. Like (laughs) I watch him train and I've seen how he pushes other people. I think that would just be ... I would certainly take myself to a, a completely different level of intensity that I've ever experienced before. And I like that. The thought of it actually scares me. But I would, I would come out of it thinking, "God, that was so good."
- CWChris Williamson
So Tom Platz is on the wish list.
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Who else would you wanna train with?
- MTMike Thurston
Uh, Calum von Moger. I think he's a cool guy.
- CWChris Williamson
He's good.
- MTMike Thurston
I'd like to do a collab with him. Um, Simeon Panda, I've tracked him before. Um, we've just not been in the same place at the same time.Uh, and then in terms of celebrities, like a few people asked me like, "Who is the one celebrity you'd love to train with?" I'd love to train with The Rock. I think that'd be pretty cool.
- CWChris Williamson
That'd be a big session.
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah. Um, but yeah. I've had to, I've had some, I've had some pretty brutal training sessions in my time. A lot of the, the really intense ones have just been with like not influencers, just your typical hardcore bodybuilder that doesn't give a damn about social media or Instagram. Some of that's proper rough people from Newcastle, Geordies.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Brad Tarrant?
- MTMike Thurston
No, no, no, no, no. Just like not even... I've had some good sessions with him, but like just these proper rough-
- CWChris Williamson
Someone you're finding gold stuff or whatever?
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah. They us- they used to go to Men at Work.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- MTMike Thurston
Like, just like-
- CWChris Williamson
For everyone who doesn't know what Men at Work is, it's 50% of the people that train in there, the guys that train in there are still in their Riga boots and their high-vis jacket-
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... from work.
- MTMike Thurston
They wear, they wear the same outfit every single session.
- CWChris Williamson
All the benches are covered in, um, like dust from graft.
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And they've still got their boots on.
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
It's-
- MTMike Thurston
And like, they'll just like completely take the piss out of me because obviously I'm there in like my ni- nice outfit-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- MTMike Thurston
... looking like a pretty boy and they're like, "Pfft."
- 41:18 – 51:01
Impact of Traveling On Relationships
- MTMike Thurston
- CWChris Williamson
Traveling a lot over the last few years and obviously building up an audience with 1.1 mil subs on YouTube now, et cetera-
- MTMike Thurston
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... has that changed your view on relationships? Obviously you're consistently in cities with very transactional relationships in them.
- MTMike Thurston
With exotic women.
- CWChris Williamson
Exotic women (laughs) .
- MTMike Thurston
(laughs) .
- CWChris Williamson
Wha- uh, what... Has that changed your opinion on relationships or your sort of viewpoint? What have you learned about relationships over the last few years?
- MTMike Thurston
I think what I've learned is I'm not at a point in my life right now to be in a relationship. I had the experience of being in one, probably like the, the first serious one I've had for a while started this year. And she like literally was so sound, like she ticks all the boxes, like wifey material, but I just, I wasn't ready for that. Nothing... I had-
- CWChris Williamson
What does that mean?
- MTMike Thurston
I had the experience of almost what life would be like being sort of married because of the whole, uh, lockdown situation, particularly here in Dubai. Um, you, you pretty much weren't allowed to leave the house. So we were in a relationship. We would... we've seen each other and then all of a sudden it just got like really intense because I was like, "Well, come... We might as well stay together," 'cause she had a, like a very small apartment and she would have... God, if she'd had to stay there, it would have been-
- CWChris Williamson
No matter.
- MTMike Thurston
... horrible for her. So she moved in. Um, and it was really like, it was good, but it was like the most intense thing I've ever done in terms of a relationship. I've never lived with a partner.... let alone being with them 24/7, not being able to leave the house, like, for two months. It was absolutely ridiculous. And, uh, I was just like, "This, this life isn't for me." And the weird thing was, is like because I was, uh, I was with her for so long, I'd end up, like, fantasizing about being with, like, other women. It was weird. Like, it was... There was that, and then the fact that when I went over to Ibiza, I'd almost felt like I was free again. I can do what I want. When I left Dubai, we said, you know, "We'll, you know, we'll see how it goes." But I had no, no plans for it being very long lasting because I've been, I've done a long distance relationship before and it was brutal. Like, going extended periods of times with not sleeping with that person or anything like that. Like, I just didn't like it. And when I went to Ibiza, uh, like, it was like starting from fresh, wasn't in a relationship. I could do what I want, speak to whoever I wanted to, and then I was, like, sleeping with a few girls and I was like the happiest I could possibly be. When I left Dubai, I wasn't really that happy. I don't know-
- CWChris Williamson
What was it about that? Was it the ƒ-
- MTMike Thurston
I think it was a combination of everything. Like, uh, definitely it was not her. It was a combination of, um, just post-lockdown, it was, Dubai was a weird place. It wasn't the fun Dubai which I'm used to. A lot of my friends, who I'm very close with, who would've been in and out of the city, weren't, because they weren't letting tourists in. So I just missed socializing and meeting new people. And with the lifestyle which I live at the moment, you know, I'm, uh, I'm traveling all over the place or doing cool things every day or, you know, in situations where there's lots of girls around me, if I'm at, like, a boat party or doing something else or talking about relationships, uh, I wouldn't be able to be my true self because I'll always be thinking, "Right, I need to be respectful to my girlfriend. So I have to behave in a certain way or I shouldn't be in this situation in the first place."
- CWChris Williamson
Shouldn't be with Chris Gayle.
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- MTMike Thurston
Like, being at, like, a pool party or being on a boat, in my opinion, I think that would be disrespectful to my partner if I was in a relationship and I don't want to make someone unhappy. So I think for, uh, in that situation, she deserved better than me because I was not giving her the proper boyfriend/partner experience which she deserved 'cause that's what she wanted. She was, she didn't like going out to, like, partying, drinking, or anything like that. She just wants her man to be loyal, true, respectful, and treat her the way she deserves to be treated. And I think it came to a point where I was like, "I'm, I'm not the, the person to provide that for her."
- CWChris Williamson
What would you change about British culture, if you could? Like, we've still got a lot of buddies who are back in the UK. You've moved around, been in Newcastle, spent a fair bit of time there, not only being a student but starting a business, then moved to London and still will be in touch with a lot of friends and family. Are there any elements of yourself that you've changed over the last few years that you wish you could red-pill those people on back home as well?
- MTMike Thurston
Mm. I don't know 'cause, like, because I'm not in the UK, like, I don't mind just, like, they can do what they want 'cause in the UK it doesn't affect me.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- MTMike Thurston
But I think a lot of people from the UK, they just party way too hard. Like, they love to just get on the drink. The, the problem I had when, when I lived in Newcastle, I had the best group of friends ever. Like, I had such a laugh with them. We all had each other's back, and it was a hell of a lot of fun, but they just partied too hard. Like, the, the alcohol, the drugs, and me being in that circle, it was not good for where I wanted to be in my life. Like, that would just pull me away from my goals in so many different ways. And what I noticed is I had all these ambitions and goals for my life and they didn't share those same ambitions. They're the type of people that are probably gonna be in Newcastle for the rest of their life and will probably be doing the same thing, you know, for the next few years, five years, 10 years. Like, they're, they're not gonna massively grow or evolve. But they're cool with that. Like, they're content. That's their life. But that's not what I wanted for myself. So one of the hardest things I had to do was to just, to leave them all, to, in pursuit of me going to chase my own goals.
- CWChris Williamson
Was that a difficult decision?
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah. Like, I remember when I left, uh, Newcastle, it was like, uh, I hated it because I, after being there for, like, eight years, I had so many friends there. Moving to London, didn't know anyone in London. Like, saying goodbye to my best mate, Brad Tarron, like, that was horrible. And I do, I still listen to this day, like, proper, proper good mate of mine. But it was just something that needed to be done in order for me to, you know, take... Moving to London was the best thing I could've done because there was less of the party scene, less of the temptation. I was, for the first time, living by myself. There was no distractions, so I could just, the productivity went up massively. And, uh, from then on, that, you know, within that first year of me starting YouTube, got, like, 300,000 subscribers in the first year.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- MTMike Thurston
And that was just from grafting my ass off. Didn't really do much on the weekend, just kind of stayed in. But I think after experiencing what that was like, you know, just staying in, not really doing much, editing all the time, I was like, "God, there needs to be more to life than this." And I think that's what kind of pushed me to want to travel.
- CWChris Williamson
So you've tried, you've straddled both sides of the extrema?
- MTMike Thurston
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
You've gone from the-
- 51:01 – 55:04
Life Lessons for Younger Mike
- MTMike Thurston
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) What other lessons do you wish that you could tell yourself 10 years ago?
- MTMike Thurston
Mm. It's funny because I've, I've been asked this a few times, and I think where I am right now at 30, I'm so happy with my life that I wouldn't really go back and change much because what has happened in my life has led me to this point today. What I would probably say is, uh, I would just say, "Look, social media is gonna be huge. Get on that straight away." I think when Instagram became popular, I didn't take advantage of that as much as I could have. I got on Twitter relatively early compared to a lot of other influencers. I just thought it was a bit of fun, so I was just like, "Yeah, just post basic pictures," and when really I should have dedicated a lot more time each day to create content for that platform to help me grow. Uh, the same thing with YouTube. I've procrastinated for about a year before I started YouTube because of my just fear of being on camera. I was just, like, absolutely useless at being on camera. If I'd started that earlier, I feel like I could have been a little bit further ahead than where I am now. Uh, and I think this is one thing which I spent years training my clients, probably three years training clients day in, day out. I wasn't earning a huge amount of money, like... In Newcastle, it's not the most affluent area, I was probably making £30 an hour training a client. And I'd bust my balls all day, every day because I... whenever I train a client, I like to give them 100% of my time and effort. And when you do that with five or six people, at the end of that, you're just wiped out. And doing something like that, you can't scale. There's only... there's a cap on how much money you can make, and it's very time-intensive. And it took me far too long to realize that this, this isn't the way forward. The moment I made that transition from training clients to (coughs) bringing out, uh, a, a cheaper service, like a, a, a training program, whether it be an ebook or an app-based training program, you can sell an unlimited amount. Passive income. You make money in your sleep. Your job is just to market it. That was the biggest game changer for me. That's when my income went like da da da da da. But I was like, "Why the hell did I not do this sooner?" But I think all those thousands of hours which I put into training clients, that made me a better coach. Like, that w- what made me better, uh, talking about things on YouTube and breaking things down. There's a lot of people now on social media or who are proclaimed, you know, online coaches. They've never trained clients in their life. Like, how can you be an online coach if you've never trained someone in person or you don't have that experience under the belt? And I see it a lot now. There's a lot of people out there who, you know, they have their hundreds of thousands of followers or, like, millions. They're offering, like, customized programs. And it's like, you, you are not, you are not doing these programs. You are paying somebody else to put the programs together. You may... you might not have even built the programs yourself. And I just think like, "How can you... how can you do that? How can you be selling people a program which you say you've made but you haven't actually made, you just paid somebody else to do it?" That's why I always pride myself on the stuff I do. Like, any program which I've sold or any plan I give to someone, I've sat there and I've, like, put it together myself. And there's a lot of people out there who... they are in a position they are because of either the way they look or just very successful marketing. And p- the problem is there's so many people who, they're just gullible or naive.
- CWChris Williamson
It's hard to tell the difference.
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah. Th- they, they just fall into the trap. Somebody who is very convincing, is a good salesman, saleswoman, and has good marketing, you know, they're, they're gonna get that customer. They'll get that client. There's a lot of coaches out there who really know their stuff, uh, who just don't have the following or they don't get the income they deserve because...... you know, they're not ... either they're taking a shortcut or they're just not really that great at marketing themselves. But-
- 55:04 – 1:10:57
Advice for Content Creators
- MTMike Thurston
- CWChris Williamson
What's the, what's the main advice that you'd give to a fledgling content creator who wants to start making money online or start vlogging or YouTubing or Instagram? What are the things that you would say that they need to get locked down?
- MTMike Thurston
I would say, first of all, understand what you're getting yourself into. Like, to, to create content, good content, it takes time and thought, particularly, like, YouTube. I don't think a lot of people understand the amount of effort that goes into putting videos together. I know so many people that are like, "Yeah, yeah, I'm starting a YouTube channel." They put out a few g- videos and they're like, "No. Not, I'm not doing that."
- CWChris Williamson
Well, you told me before we started that you, your most recent vlog had taken three full days-
- MTMike Thurston
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... of work-
- MTMike Thurston
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... to, just to film, then your edit time.
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah. Well, th- the edit time was kind of within that as well. Uh, but I just thought, like, "God, that took, like, quite a lot of time." And even I was questioning, like, is that re- was that really worth it? If a video gets over 150,000 views or 200,000 views, then I'm like, "Okay, yeah, that's good." Gets more than half a million, I'm like, "Okay, it was very good." If it goes, like, more than a million, then that's like, "Yeah, that's a-
- CWChris Williamson
Right.
- MTMike Thurston
... really solid video."
- CWChris Williamson
Okay, so we've got the, you need to know what you're getting yourself in for.
- MTMike Thurston
So, you need to know what you're getting into. You need to, at this stage, h- you have to figure out a way to stand out. Like, now is, like, the most saturated market ever. You have to ask yourself, "How are you gonna be different?" Y- you can't just try and copy someone else. Uh ...
- CWChris Williamson
What do you think makes you different?
- MTMike Thurston
I think one thing, I won't lie, I think that's helped me to begin with is obviously the way I look. Having a good physique can help, but that is not, uh, the only thing that's important. You could be the type of person that provides very informative information. Like, if you just provide good information and it makes sense, then people will like that. Even if you don't have a great physique, people will be like, "Yeah, I'm learning a lot by watching this guy's videos or content." You could have a great personality, be very charismatic, be very entertaining, uh, y- you know, if, if you are w- if there's something about you which is very engaging, people just wanna watch more, uh, then you are, you'll be successful. I think with me, uh, like I said, there's, there's been my physique. But I think I've stayed very true to who I am, and I'm honest, and I like t- and I just say it how it is. Is I've never tried to be someone I'm not. Like, what you see in the video is me. Like, I, I honestly just feel like I'm a normal person. I don't try and be, like, super funny. I don't try and be, like ... Uh, you know, I don't try and talk about things I don't understand. If I don't understand it, I either say, "Oh, you know, I don't really know," or I just don't talk about it. I d- I talk about things which I myself understand. And then, uh, just share from experience. I think it ... One thing which kind of helped me grow or, like, the, the ... I won't say I love, that's the wrong word. But that m- people felt more of a connection was when I opened up a little bit more. So when I talk about, like, my life, my problems, mistakes I've made, uh, just sharing my thoughts, I think that can be quite good as well.
- CWChris Williamson
It's very rare to find online ... the vast majority of content creators that I see are fitting a mold that they think other people want to see.
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And for the most part, that involves a bit of a m- like, a meta game where they're projecting this version of themselves. This is podcast Chris. This is vlog Mike.
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And totally correct, some of the most engaged bits of content that I've ever seen on the internet are when people genuinely open up about t- this. Their vulnerability about their concerns, about their hopes, their dreams.
- MTMike Thurston
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
You know, all of this sort of stuff. And that's certainly one way that you can stand out. You said you need to find a way to stand out. That's a fairly easy-
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... way to stand out, to just aim for honesty.
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah. And the thing is, everybody is different, and each person is unique in their own way. Like, I, I can't try and be somebody else. Like, I, I-
- CWChris Williamson
Simmy Punder or-
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah. I am Mike Thurston. There's only one Mike Thurston, so just be Mike Thurston. And ... yeah, like we said, I think especially now, I just, I, I don't care anymore. Like, the older I get, I just don't care about anything. So I'm more than willing to just talk about things I've done in the past which-
- CWChris Williamson
You, you are concerned if one of the videos ... if you were to release 10 videos in a row and all of them hit less than 150K though-
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... how would that make you feel?
- 1:10:57 – 1:24:22
Next Steps for Mike
- CWChris Williamson
questions left. Um, the first one is, what's your prediction for the next five years, platform-wise, content-wise? What are you thinking is going to continue? But are you tempted to do a TikTok?Are you thinking YouTube's gonna continue to grow?
- MTMike Thurston
I think YouTube will still be around for the next few years. The thing that's annoying me is the whole censorship thing. I think it's getting a little bit, like, too strict with what you can and can't say. Like, the free speech, I think, is going a little bit out the window. Like now, if you're talking about sensitive subjects or conspiracy theories, YouTube will just take your video down. It's a bit like, well, that's a bit harsh, but ...
- CWChris Williamson
Have you been caught for any of that stuff yet?
- MTMike Thurston
No, because there's things that I wanna talk about where I'm like, just, just don't say it, like. It's best not to say it sometimes, particularly if it's something which is quite a touchy subject, because you are gonna have people who will agree or disagree. And it's mad how people will just not like you because you have different opinions, so-
- CWChris Williamson
Because you picked an opinion.
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah. Basically. It's mad. That's why I'm just like, yeah, stay, stay clear of that. Um, Instagram I imagine will be around for a while. TikTok, I've not ... I don't really know much about TikTok. I, I've thought about potentially getting onto it, but I just thought ... The problem is now, it's, I-
- CWChris Williamson
I can see you doing a dance.
- MTMike Thurston
I ... Yeah, a bad one.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- MTMike Thurston
Um, I, I would much rather be on top of my game and focus on, like, two platforms rather than trying to do five and just overwhelm myself and not putting out the best content. So YouTube is all, is gonna be my focus. Instagram, obviously, my focus as well. I should probably p- place a bit more focus on Instagram if I want to grow. But I was possibly thinking about podcasting. It's been, it's been toying with my mind over the past few years, because, uh, the thing with my YouTube videos is most people will tune into a YouTube video, average view length's six minutes, eight minutes.
- CWChris Williamson
And what do you aim to hit, like 10 to 15?
- MTMike Thurston
Yeah. 10 to 15. I don't think ... See, like-
- CWChris Williamson
You're looking at, like, a 33%.
Episode duration: 1:24:52
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