What Is Strength? | Brett Jones | Modern Wisdom Podcast 112

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   If I were to…

   1. BJBrett Jones0:00

      If I were to give one piece of advice ... Well, we'll make it two. Number one is patience. True power means you're patient enough to allow that power to come to fruition. So it means at the top of my swing, and if it's, if it is the Games and you are doing the overhead swing-

   2. CWChris Williamson0:20

      Mm-hmm.

   3. BJBrett Jones0:20

      ... fine, you got to do what's required for the competition. You have to wait for those arms to reconnect for your, to your ribs before you hinge. Then you have to allow yourself th- the time to hinge before you hit the quick turnaround, and now you got to be patient keeping the arms against the body as long as you can so you have this full transfer of energy from the hips and midsection to the arms and the bell. And so, what I see a lot of people do is they rush that. They hinge too early on the way down, they're trying to come up too quick on the way up-

   4. CWChris Williamson0:54

      Mm.

   5. BJBrett Jones0:55

      ... and they're letting the arms disconnect before they fully express the power from their hips. So if they were to display patience at those three stages, wait long enough for the arms to reconnect on the way down, give yourself time to hinge, and then keep the arms against the ribs as long as possible as you're producing power through the ground, you're gonna find a much more powerful swing and better transfer of energy.

   6. CWChris Williamson1:24

      I'm joined by Brett Jones, Director of Education at StrongFirst. Brett, welcome to the show.

   7. BJBrett Jones1:31

      Excellent. It's great to be with you today, and really looking forward to speaking with you and your audience.

   8. CWChris Williamson1:35

      Yeah. Me too. We, uh, we haven't touched on strength that much yet. Not in it's, not in its purity. We've, we've circled around it a little bit, but we're talking all things strong today, right?

   9. BJBrett Jones1:45

      Absolutely. Um, there's... Strength has been, uh, it's, um, been a, something I've pursued, uh, for most of my, uh, adult life, uh, in, in various forms, and, uh, I, I look forward to the conversation on it.

   10. CWChris Williamson2:01

       Yeah. It's gonna be good. We'll have some CrossFitters, some powerlifters tuning in, uh, amongst people that just want to be able to lift the shopping a bit, the, the shopping a little bit heavier, I guess, as well, so they might benefit as well. Um-

   11. BJBrett Jones2:12

       Absolutely.

   12. CWChris Williamson2:13

       Talking about strength, how do you, as someone who spends his entire time thinking about strength, how do you define strength?

   13. BJBrett Jones2:20

       So strength can be ... So if we first go with this, uh, this idea of physical strength, um, that can be your ability to produce tension, your ability to produce force against an outside object, or to manipulate your own body, um, g- against a given leverage or position. So it's the ability to produce tension, to produce force against an object, um, and manipulate an object or your own body, uh, like I said. So that, that's kind of the, the 30,000-foot view. Um, when you, d- if you get into the mechanics of it, there's obviously a lot more going on.

   14. CWChris Williamson3:00

       Mm-hmm.

   15. BJBrett Jones3:01

       Uh, when you go beyond physical strength, and that's, you know ... Within StrongFirst, one of our, uh ... We, we have, actually have like a code of conduct. Uh, we're students of strength, uh, we're quiet professionals, and we believe that strength has a greater purpose. And the, the mission of StrongFirst is to pursue, promote, and practice strength because we believe strength has a greater purpose. And that greater purpose obviously, uh, transcends physical strength into many other areas. Uh, my grandmother is one of the strongest people that I know of on the planet, and she's never lifted a weight in her life.

   16. CWChris Williamson3:35

       (laughs)

   17. BJBrett Jones3:35

       And so, we're not just referring to this concept of physical strength. We do believe that building physical strength can provide a window into, uh, greater strength in one's life, uh, in many areas-

   18. CWChris Williamson3:51

       Mm-hmm.

   19. BJBrett Jones3:51

       ... not just the physical.

   20. CWChris Williamson3:53

       I understand. So yeah, you've, you've touched on one of the, the two, uh, taglines, I suppose, or one of the, the two major elements that StrongFirst does, which is strength has a greater purpose and strength is the master quality. That right?

   21. BJBrett Jones4:07

       Yes. So if you look at, uh ... Matveev said, uh, that, uh, strength is a foundation of physical development, um, str- for the, uh, for all, uh, qualities of, of physical development. So, uh, I, I remember being in a talk with, uh, Eric Cressey years ago and, you know, Eric, uh, gave a great analogy. People have tried to give me credit for it, so every time I get an opportunity I give him credit for it-

   22. CWChris Williamson4:35

       Great.

   23. BJBrett Jones4:35

       ... 'cause it's where I heard it. Uh, but basically he said, you know, uh, strength is the glass. Every other quality you want to develop goes in that glass. And so the bigger your glass, the more of those other qualities you can develop. And so strength maintains, um, a, uh, a focus and, and a foundation for, uh, people's training. And it's interesting right now as, as physical training has become more ... I'm gonna go old school here for just a second. So if you look at some of the ancient training systems, and I'm drawing back to the Greeks and the German Turnverein system and, uh, some of the, some of the other old training systems which primarily came from training military and, and, uh, and warriors and, and things of that nature. Uh, they really had three main components to them. There was a martial component, uh, which was your ability to respond appropriately to aggression, and you could easily look at that from a martial arts or military perspective, and that makes v- very good sense. There was a restorative component because learning the martial tended to knock you out of center, and so you needed techniques for health and recovery and-

   24. CWChris Williamson5:48

       Mm-hmm.

   25. BJBrett Jones5:48

       ... regeneration to be able to go do the other stuff again. And then you had a pedagogical body of knowledge that, uh, supported the other two. Fitness has become our martial art. Fitness has become the thing ... So our pillars of training have switched.... to where now our training, our fitness has become this, uh, thing that we do, uh, for itself. Uh, whereas we used to get fit to go do other things. You know, the restorative component in the ancient systems was meant to just allow you to go practice the martial stuff more.

   26. CWChris Williamson6:24

       Mm-hmm.

   27. BJBrett Jones6:24

       Um, I'm a very exciting guy. I enjoy hiking. So my- (laughs)

   28. CWChris Williamson6:28

       (laughs)

   29. BJBrett Jones6:28

       ... my training at this point supports my hiking.

   30. CWChris Williamson6:31

       (laughs)
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. BJBrett Jones15:00

      two, uh... I prefer to treat the physiological aspect as kind of a black box (laughs) where we do things and we get a response, and I don't necessarily need to understand all of the details that's happening in the black box.

   2. CWChris Williamson15:13

      Mm-hmm.

   3. BJBrett Jones15:14

      Um, and actually from a computer standpoint, there's a lot of, uh, artificial intelligence algorithms and things like that that are basically treated like a black box. They actually don't understand what's happening inside the AI box-

   4. CWChris Williamson15:25

      Hmm.

   5. BJBrett Jones15:26

      ... but we get results-

   6. CWChris Williamson15:28

      So the in-

   7. BJBrett Jones15:28

      ... that come out the other side.

   8. CWChris Williamson15:28

      ... the, the input's controlled, the output is what you want, and the process in the middle, it doesn't really matter so much, I don't suppose, as long as the output is what you wanted.

   9. BJBrett Jones15:39

      Yes.

   10. CWChris Williamson15:39

       I like it.

   11. BJBrett Jones15:40

       So we, we, we get kind of bogged down into the physiology because it's fascinating.

   12. CWChris Williamson15:44

       Mm-hmm.

   13. BJBrett Jones15:44

       I mean, you talk about the... One of the things that, that we work on is this balance of tension and relaxation. And so it sounds weird for a guy that's all about strength to be talking about relaxation, but if you're not able to relax, you can never fully bring your strength to bear.

   14. CWChris Williamson16:00

       Hmm.

   15. BJBrett Jones16:01

       And from an athletic standpoint, if I'm walking around half tight all the time, I'm neither efficient or fast or powerful, so I have to be able to relax. Well, relaxation actually takes more energy in the muscle than contraction.

   16. CWChris Williamson16:17

       Is that true?

   17. BJBrett Jones16:17

       Because now you have to... Yeah, you have to pump out the calcium that gave you the crossbridges and the, and the contraction. Now you've got to pump that out in order to create the relaxation. And so there's this, um, there's this balance to be achieved, and, uh, your skill at relaxation can enhance your strength and your ability to produce power and, and force and things of that nature.

   18. CWChris Williamson16:41

       Interesting.

   19. BJBrett Jones16:41

       So... But that's complicated. Like, there's a lot going on in there, and I'm, I'm, uh, just a good old knuckle dragger. I like, uh, I like, you know, lifting and doing the fun stuff. And, um, while I have gone down some of the rabbit holes of the, the complexity, um, you can still read the research and see how conflicted we still are-

   20. CWChris Williamson17:04

       Mm-hmm.

   21. BJBrett Jones17:04

       ... on things like hypertrophy-

   22. CWChris Williamson17:06

       Hmm.

   23. BJBrett Jones17:06

       ... and, uh, other aspects of muscle development. Um, so there's, there's a lot going on there. Um, so I just kind of treat that as a black box.

   24. CWChris Williamson17:14

       (laughs)

   25. BJBrett Jones17:14

       And like you said, the input, the output, and the magic happens in the black box.

   26. CWChris Williamson17:18

       In the middle. Yeah.

   27. BJBrett Jones17:18

       (laughs)

   28. CWChris Williamson17:19

       I, I, uh, honestly, one of the problems that I found when I was a young guy and learning about lifting and, and stuff, so I'm going back to probably 2007, which is, like, bodybuilding.com days, like, quite heavily forum based, um, and it was so bro sciencey-

   29. BJBrett Jones17:35

       (laughs)

   30. CWChris Williamson17:36

       ... uh, and for every, for every article that you read that said one thing, you could find one that said the opposite. And the same is still true now. Like, for every person f- for whom keto works amazingly, there's another person for whom high carb works amazingly, and then someone will do intermittent fasting, and someone will stick to a, a more consistent, steady grazing style, um, sort of typical bodybuilder's, uh, diet. And you know, it, it really is a case of trying to find the principles, I suppose, and moving those forward. Um, so I've got a couple of questions. I've got one, one question for you, which will come up in a little bit, which I think might be like you trying to choose your favorite child. Um, but-
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. BJBrett Jones30:00

      of the center, displaced center of mass, or that displaced center of mass is actually guiding you into better positions during the movement. It... So it requires, uh, a, a, a increased level of alignment with integrity under load. And I'm grabbing that from Gray Cook, one of my other mentors. And, uh, so via the get-up and the press and things like that that take advantage of this offset center of mass, uh, you have this alignment with integrity under load, which builds this kind of great postural control, which helps set the foundation for a lot of the strength and the power work that you want to be doing.And so, the kettlebell, in my mind and what I've seen over the- the last, you know, um, 17, 18 years of using the tool myself, um, I- I- I think it, uh, it really fits a need for people that a dumbbell, a barbell, uh, kind of don't provide-

   2. CWChris Williamson30:56

      Mm-hmm.

   3. BJBrett Jones30:56

      ... because that- that weight centers with your, uh, grip, instead of being offset. Uh, an old joke for us is you, uh, can't swing a barbell between your legs, uh, more than once.

   4. CWChris Williamson31:10

      (laughs)

   5. BJBrett Jones31:10

      And so, the- the (laughs) the kettlebell allows you to achieve this really unique loaded eccentric position, which has tremendous carryover for anything athletic. And, uh, from a power standpoint, um, I think Zatziorski and- and- and others would put it in a power metric, um- um, category, not plyometric, but it still produces, um ... I can produce three, three and a half times body weight eccentric load at the bottom of a 24-kilo-

   6. CWChris Williamson31:41

      Hmm.

   7. BJBrett Jones31:42

      ... uh, kettlebell swing.

   8. CWChris Williamson31:43

      Because it's so dynamic, right?

   9. BJBrett Jones31:45

      Exactly. And that loaded eccentric really is unique. So I- I think kettlebells fulfill, uh, check a lot of boxes. And you'll see this if you look at Quick and the Dead, um, once you've built a base of strength, power training has a lot to offer, and you have to be strong enough to be powerful.

   10. CWChris Williamson32:04

       Mm-hmm.

   11. BJBrett Jones32:04

       And so we're still not forgetting that strength is the foundation. But once you have achieved a base level of strength, that power work really delivers across multiple spectrums of, uh, physical development, whether we're talking about endurance, power, strength. And so-

   12. CWChris Williamson32:20

       What's- what's the difference between power and strength?

   13. BJBrett Jones32:23

       So, um, power is how quickly you can apply your strength.

   14. CWChris Williamson32:29

       Okay. Yep.

   15. BJBrett Jones32:29

       Strength is how much force you can produce.

   16. CWChris Williamson32:31

       So, it'd be the equivalent of, uh, horsepower versus torque.

   17. BJBrett Jones32:36

       Yes. I- I'd ... I- I'll go with that, uh, analogy-

   18. CWChris Williamson32:39

       (laughs) Yeah.

   19. BJBrett Jones32:39

       ... very e- very easily.

   20. CWChris Williamson32:40

       That ... Yeah.

   21. BJBrett Jones32:40

       Yeah.

   22. CWChris Williamson32:40

       Like a torquey- a torquey engine might not be quite so fast, but can pull a very heavy load. A high brick horsepower engine can go very quickly, but might not be able to pull such a heavy thing.

   23. BJBrett Jones32:50

       Yes.

   24. CWChris Williamson32:50

       And then in between the two, you have a- a midpoint. Okay. Okay.

   25. BJBrett Jones32:55

       Yes.

   26. CWChris Williamson32:55

       Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, we will have a lot of CrossFitters and other strength athletes listening, but CrossFitters especially, we're about to enter the open, which is a period-

   27. BJBrett Jones33:03

       Mm-hmm.

   28. CWChris Williamson33:03

       ... during which, uh, there will inevitably be kettlebell swings. Would you be able to-

   29. BJBrett Jones33:09

       Sure.

   30. CWChris Williamson33:09

       ... talk us through how you see the optimal kettlebell swing, or what the- (clicking)
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Yeah. …

   1. BJBrett Jones45:00

      But anyway.

   2. CWChris Williamson45:00

      Yeah.

   3. BJBrett Jones45:01

      You know, here comes this message that you have this high intensity with short rest for a compressed period of time, and you accomplish all of these great things. Um, that's... Yes, you will for a little while, and then the wheels will fall off.

   4. CWChris Williamson45:19

      Why?

   5. BJBrett Jones45:20

      Because it's like a crash diet.

   6. CWChris Williamson45:22

      Mm.

   7. BJBrett Jones45:22

      You just can't maintain it. It's, n- n- you know, if you're, if we're doing the cabbage soup diet, you know, we're gonna lose a lot of weight, uh, and accomplish some great short term results, and then we're not going to because nutritional deficiencies and problems will set in.

   8. CWChris Williamson45:36

      Mm.

   9. BJBrett Jones45:37

      When you burn the candle to, uh, both ends and in the middle and you're burning the nas every time you go into the session, the car eventually falls apart. You just can't handle that level of stress over that period of time. You exceed the ability of the organism to compensate and recover from that stress. Um, and again, we're back into the c- capacity versus tolerance discussion, and I would rather build capacity and have this, uh, health aspect to my training. Um, I'm an ancient 48 years old, and, uh, I can tell you that, uh, I, I enjoy the health, uh, aspect of my training. Um, from a strength standpoint, you know, I was the 11th guy in the world to bend the red nail. I've accomplished a, a good number of grip strength feats, um, some decent, not great, uh, power lifting numbers, uh, raw. And so I, I've built my strength, and I, I've worked on that end of things. I've snatched a kettlebell a bunch of times and worked on the conditioning end of things. Um, but the only place health comes before, or fitness comes before health is in the dictionary. Your, your training should be driving you towards a, a better, uh, standpoint as far as your health is concerned. And we may sacrifice that from time to time in order to accomplish a performance goal. Certainly, if your goal... Uh, I was working with a guy at a workshop, and his goal was to bench 500, and he was doing whatever it took, and you can read into that whatever you want to. He was doing whatever it took to get to 500, and I gave him s- a couple of mobility techniques and things to work on because he was really suffering, uh, with his shoulders, and, but he was gonna do whatever it took to accomplish that goal. As long as he's willing to change goals (laughs) once he's accomplished that, uh, and regain the health of his shoulders and body and things of that nature, fine. Like, we, we make these decisions from time to time. Um, if you're gonna run a marathon, get, get ready to spend a lot of money on treatment and, and, uh, surviving the training and the marathon, and then hopefully you get healthy, you know, on the, on the back end of that. So we make those decisions as long as those are conscious decisions and things that we've, we've factored in. If the only thing we know how to do is burn ourselves to a frazzle, be forced to take time off, either due to illness or injury, and then burn ourselves to a frazzle again, I think there's a better way.

   10. CWChris Williamson48:09

       Reminds me of, uh, Eddie Hall, hearing him, uh, talking about the way that, that his body was and how he felt around about the time when he won World's Strongest Man.

   11. BJBrett Jones48:23

       Mm-hmm.

   12. CWChris Williamson48:23

       And he was talking about the fact that his marriage was falling apart, and he's barely seeing his kids, and he was so heavy that he c- I think he's like 190 kilos, and he's like 5'9" or something or like 5'10" or something like that that's some inordinate size, as wide as he was tall. And, um-

   13. BJBrett Jones48:44

       Yeah.

   14. CWChris Williamson48:44

       ... uh, he was talking about all of these different things. But as you say, he said, "I, I wanted to be the world's strongest man. I was prepared to do whatever it took to do that." But one thing I've got massive amount of respect for Eddie for is seeing the transformation that he's undergone after he completed that goal.So he did complete that goal. He got where he wanted to, and he has taken a complete step back from the professional side of that sport. Now, he's doing other stuff. He's doing, um, a lot more varied fitness challenges. I think he's like swimming and stuff at the moment, which must be a bizarre sight to see him in a pool.

   15. BJBrett Jones49:22

       (laughs)

   16. CWChris Williamson49:22

       But, yeah, uh, uh, you know, you're right. People are prepared to make sacrifices for things that they deem to be valuable to them, given their values in life. They think, "I-

   17. BJBrett Jones49:34

       Sure.

   18. CWChris Williamson49:35

       ... uh, this will make me feel satisfied and give me a sense of accomplishment if I X, run this marathon, deadlift 600 pounds, bench press 500 pounds," whatever it might be. Um, there is a, there is a treadmill that people can get on, where they don't realize that if there isn't a goal at the end of that, if it's just fitness for fitness's sake, if there's no end point, if there's no periodization, that's when you get people that do get severe burnout or they end up with a very serious injury. Um, so yeah, you, you, you mentioned about one of the ways that, that people can self-judge when they're pushing themselves too hard, uh, and when they potentially need to move back towards capacity.

   19. BJBrett Jones50:26

       (clears throat) So, um, so with, with ... Let's go within a session, because I think that's important. Um, if your rep speed is slowing down, if your ... so your tempo changes.

   20. CWChris Williamson50:40

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   21. BJBrett Jones50:40

       Um, and I- I have a very easy metric on that. If I'm doing swings and I know 10 swings takes me roughly 17 to 18 seconds, if that 10 swings starts taking me 20, 21 seconds, um, I'm slowing down. Uh, I am beating the proverbial dead horse. It is time for me to stop or increase my rest periods.

   22. CWChris Williamson51:05

       Mm-hmm.

   23. BJBrett Jones51:06

       Um, so seeing tempo change, um, exceeding about an eight out of 10 on a RPE, um, unable to catch your breath, you know, you're not able to recover before the next set. I've been a slave to the clock for years, and have, over the last couple of years, uh, worked very hard to free myself, uh, from the clock and allowing myself better recovery, and not surprisingly, seeing better results, uh, in my training. Um, so those are just some, some easy kind of stop signs that, that we talk about within Strong First, that, uh, you know, within a session, within a set, within a session, within a, a per- uh, training session, you- we look for those things. Um, the ... I think it's very interesting, um (laughs) , I was asked one time on a podcast what my favorite recovery strategy was. And I think it's interesting that we have an entire cottage industry of recovery strategies that have grown up around this idea of, how do I recover from the training that I'm doing? Well, my answer was proper programming. If I have myself programmed appropriately, if I am taking into account the organism and my overall stress, nutrition, sleep, uh, ability to handle work and the environment, my programming and things of that nature, um, if I've got those two things taken care of, and I have done well with this environmental consideration of, of, uh, the program, then I should be recovering from my training.

   24. CWChris Williamson52:42

       Mm-hmm.

   25. BJBrett Jones52:43

       I shouldn't be always trying to figure out how I'm going to recover. Probably one of the easiest answers to people who are always trying to figure out how to recover from their training is, uh, do less. (laughs)

   26. CWChris Williamson52:54

       Yeah, you're right. If you're, if you're constantly having to flap your wings so hard to stay afloat, it's probably just time that you need to reassess the program overall, decide that you're gonna just take a little bit more rest time, whatever it might be. And that's, I think, because we are exposed to the work rate of everybody else online with social media and being able to now see, uh, a window into the lives of professional athletes or semi-professional athletes or just, you know, your normal gym athlete who happens to have a ridiculous work capacity. Because you're able to see them, you use the canary in the coal mine for how hard are you working is how hard are they working.

   27. BJBrett Jones53:33

       Yeah.

   28. CWChris Williamson53:33

       And that can lead to people setting themselves a standard which is unreachable given their physiology. There are some people-

   29. BJBrett Jones53:42

       Yes.

   30. CWChris Williamson53:42

       ... out there whose ability to recover, they can recover fine from a really hard workout on seven hours sleep. There's some people who require, you know, ten. Um, and I guess that's a, a decision you need to make yourself.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:04:19

   Right. …

   1. CWChris Williamson1:00:00

      who may never do anything other than big compound lifts. They might, their, their accessory work might be pull-ups, and that's it. Or you know-

   2. BJBrett Jones1:00:07

      Right.

   3. CWChris Williamson1:00:08

      ... (clears throat) i- it's so, I find it fascinating that there are all of these different routes. And it comes back to what we said at the very beginning, right, where it's like you can find s- an, proof for effectiveness or proof for ineffectiveness for pretty much everything. So, at the end of the day, this is a nice way to round it off, I suppose, does the training methodology that you choose come down to personal preference for the one that you can adhere to the, the most and that feels the best for you? And, or, how, how are you supposed to select? I have this myriad of training, uh, opportunities in front of me. How, how do I choose?

   4. BJBrett Jones1:00:45

      So, I, I think to get started, let's start there. To get started, uh, the basics work. Three to five sets of three to five reps, three to five days a week, um, just to keep it as simple as possible, with, with some variation in, in what you're doing. Uh, that will build strength. And for the beginner, uh, I don't want to say almost any program will work, but almost any program will work, you know, for the beginner.It's when you have built a base of strength and you're trying to specialize and aim yourself in a particular direction, that then the, the, the next training protocol carries more weight. (laughs) Strength training joke. Um, carries more weight in, in how you're gonna, uh, succeed, uh, in that. Uh, keeping in mind health and, and progress, um, you know, as long as you're being mindful of those, then you gotta know when to stop a routine and make a change. You don't want to, uh ... And I know, um, the, the, I've seen it referred to as struggle porn, uh-

   5. CWChris Williamson1:01:52

      Mm-hmm.

   6. BJBrett Jones1:01:52

      ... where there's this message out there that you gotta grind and you're gonna grind and you're gonna grind. And, you know, you put all these hours in and you grind, and, and believe me, I, uh, I've put in the hours and, and, uh, that's not a, a problem for me. But you can grind too far and too deeply and cause yourself problems. You, you don't wanna quit before the process comes to fruition, but you gotta know when the process isn't gonna come to fruition, and you gotta make a change. Um, so kind of a dichotomy there, uh, to, to work with. So, um, figuring out whether you're a high volume or low volume athlete, I think is one of the most important distinctions from a strength training standpoint. And I have friends of mine that can handle a very high number of lifts per month. I am not that person. I am not a, a high volume, uh, trainee. Uh, if I do a high volume routine, it needs to be, um, um, six weeks-

   7. CWChris Williamson1:02:50

      Small windows.

   8. BJBrett Jones1:02:50

      ... to eight weeks and ... Yeah, small windows, and then get away from it, uh, because the, the siren song of volume, uh, becomes a little too strong-

   9. CWChris Williamson1:03:00

      Coming for you.

   10. BJBrett Jones1:03:01

       ... and you overload yourself. Exactly.

   11. CWChris Williamson1:03:03

       (laughs) I love it. Brett, thank you so much for today. It's been great. If the listeners want to find out some more info, what have the books been that we've cited today, and where else can they head?

   12. BJBrett Jones1:03:14

       So if you go to strongfirst.com, uh, you'll find, uh, everything there from the community forum, our articles and, and things of that nature. A lot of information, uh, available there. Um, the book is Quick and the Dead, The Quick and the Dead, um, and has some tremendous information in it. And, uh, you'll, you'll see our barbell, kettlebell and body weight sort of, uh, modalities represented on the website and, uh, and on the forum. So kind of a one-stop shop, a lot of information, uh, to be gained there.

   13. CWChris Williamson1:03:46

       I love it. Thank you so much for your time. I'm hoping that we'll make some people a little bit stronger. Any questions that you have, feel free to throw them in the YouTube comments below, uh, and I'll try and hassle Brett if there's a, if there's anything specific that I can't answer myself. But for now, Brett, thank you very much.

   14. BJBrett Jones1:04:00

       Beautiful. Thank you, sir. It was great to have the opportunity. Outfits. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Outfits.

Episode duration: 1:04:19