Modern WisdomWhat Is The Fitness Menopause? | Modern Wisdom Podcast 173
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,006 words- 0:00 – 15:00
So I- I've got…
- YUYusef
So I- I've got quite strong views on this, which is that everybody wants to be a bodybuilder.
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- YUYusef
But nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weight.
- JOJonny
Have you ever spent weeks trying to improve your hammer curl, for example?
- YUYusef
(laughs)
- JOJonny
Because you, because you were t- you read an article on T Nation th- that spoke about how it attacked the biceps slightly differently, and you felt like that was what your life was missing? If you know who Zyzz is?
- CWChris Williamson
If you know who Zyzz is, yeah, that's it.
- JOJonny
That's it. Like that's the, that's the certificate.
- CWChris Williamson
That's the ƒ.
- JOJonny
Like if, if you know who Zyzz is, this'll all completely make sense-
- CWChris Williamson
Make sense.
- JOJonny
... to you, and you'll just be sat there nodding along.
- YUYusef
Did the squats and milk program, which is ... So three times a week, you take your 10 rep max, you do a set of 10, and then you keep the bar on your back and you take five to 10 deep breaths, and you do another rep, and you keep doing that until you hit 20. And then you have a gallon of milk a day. So I was having a gallon of whole milk, 4.7 liters-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- YUYusef
... of whole milk every day, just sat in class. And I remember doing this and, like, throwing up raspberry whey down my top while I had the bar on my back.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) .
- YUYusef
Doing these, like, squats and milk, being so out of breath.
- CWChris Williamson
(wind blowing) I'm joined by Jonny and Yusuf from propanefitness.com. Look at that.
- JOJonny
Hello.
- CWChris Williamson
So good to see you. Are you doing some boxing?
- JOJonny
I was just enjoying the, the effect.
- CWChris Williamson
You're like a-
- JOJonny
It's quite impressive, isn't it?
- CWChris Williamson
... like a cat. Uh, today, we are talking about the fitness menopause. It's something that we've dropped on podcasts for the last couple of years. I'll start off. I'll try and give a, a broad definition so everyone knows what we're talking about, and then we'll, we'll take it from there. So, fitness menopause was something that I'd identified within myself toward my late 20s when I'd been doing bro lifting, fitness stuff, bodybuilding for a while, and realized as I became chronically aware of my own mortality as I approached 30, uh, realized that I was getting out of breath going up a, a big hill and I was kind of a little bit bored of just doing, you know, chest Mondays and chest Tuesdays and chest Wednesdays and curls and stuff like that, and training purely for aesthetics. And I was just disenchanted. I kind of lost my love with training. Um, certainly lost the motivation to do it without really grinding myself to get out of bed and, and go to the gym. Um, so then just started trying to do different things. The fitness menopause describes a period, I think, in a lot of fitness people's lives, who perhaps have just entered into the world of training by doing bodybuilding or bro style lifting, um, from just the age of teens or early 20s or whatever, and then never tried anything else. And as they approach their late 20s, they think, "Oh, hang on. Like, this, this maybe isn't fulfilling me in quite the way that I thought." How do you think about that as a definition? You reckon that's about right?
- YUYusef
I, I mean, that's about right. It, it applies to a very specific subsection of people. And a- are we Millennials or are we-
- CWChris Williamson
No, we're technically ... Yeah, it's '84, '84 till '96.
- YUYusef
Eigh- okay. So, so I think in that case then, (clears throat) Millennials tend to fall into this bracket quite well because there was this surge of the popularity of weightlifting, bodybuilding, that kind of stuff, kind of coinciding with like T Nation's rise and fall and then bodybuilding.com and all of these like, um, like Simply Shredded.
- JOJonny
Z-Zero.
- YUYusef
Remember that? Yeah.
- JOJonny
Oh god. Simply Shredded is fucking wild.
- 15:00 – 30:00
I think, I think…
- JOJonny
for them. And it, to be honest, it is. Like I, I think that probably what, what I've gained from fitness is, is a big deal. But you kind of hit these milestones and then you think, "All right, well, I'm kind of done with bodybuilding now. Like I've, I've done it, I've taken a progress photo, I'm really happy. Maybe I should start doing something that's competitive. Maybe I'll get into triathlons or..."
- CWChris Williamson
I think, I think there's a good point to be made there about the fact that you kind of do need to pay your dues. If you've got this unticked box with regards to physical development in some other area, it is a good idea to tick that first. It's that Naval Ravikant-ism where he says, "It is far easier to achieve your material desires than to recount them." And it's like-
- YUYusef
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... I would much sooner not w- not be bothered about being lean because I've been lean than not-
- YUYusef
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... bothered about being lean just because I gave up, you know?
- JOJonny
(clears throat)
- YUYusef
Oh, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- YUYusef
'Cause y- you'll always have that like sense in the back of your head.
- CWChris Williamson
"I wonder, wonder what it's like if I'm s- single digit body fat." Um, s- but, uh-
- YUYusef
Yeah, so, uh, I... Like, like Jonny definitely ticks that box hard in that like, you know, you, you went to, you competed at Worlds and then, you know, then realized that actually like placing at Worlds and winning Worlds is so much more effort compared to getting there.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- YUYusef
The, like... 'Cause the, the curve of like, um, return on investment suddenly, like, flatters so much.
- CWChris Williamson
For the people that don't know, what is Worlds?
- YUYusef
World champion.
- JOJonny
It's, it's just the top, it's just the mo- the, like the highest level in IPF. But like honestly, like-
- CWChris Williamson
Which is?
- JOJonny
Which is what?
- CWChris Williamson
What's IPF?
- JOJonny
Oh, um, so there's the International Powerlifting Federation, which is often seen as being like the, like the, the best one to be in 'cause it, the r- the rules are the most strict. They've got stringent drug testing and all that sort of stuff. Um, I think they're technically like the most strict on depth and like what you can and can't do in the bench press and all that sort of stuff. Then there's the GBPF and there's the EPF, which is the European Powerlifting Federation. So if you place at Nationals, you go to Europeans. If you do all right at Europeans, you can sometimes be selected for Worlds. So that happened to me.
- CWChris Williamson
And you made it to Worlds and you've got GB, uh, singular T-shirts-
- JOJonny
I do.
- CWChris Williamson
... all that stuff.
- JOJonny
The, the whole thing. To be honest, I think it's because Tom Martin couldn't do it that year.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JOJonny
Like seriously. Um, but-
- CWChris Williamson
Thanks, Tom.
- JOJonny
... you know, at least I, at least I'm honest about that. I think I, I get really riled up by people who, I'm gonna offend some people here, I get really riled up by p- You've got like people who are legit, like really strong, been training a long time, r- that should be at Worlds, and then you've got people who get to Worlds because a, a, a sort of an administrative process that where a box needed to be, like a form, someone needed to fill a form in, so you've gone to Worlds. And like I just don't think they're the same thing personally. But y- anyway, um, (laughs) so like that's-
- CWChris Williamson
I can hear you.
- 30:00 – 45:00
(laughs) …
- CWChris Williamson
outputs.
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
And you think, like, your, your proprioception, your ability to understand where your body is in space and how to move it from A to B, is so much more advanced than a fucking donkey kickback.
- JOJonny
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Like, why, why are you doing ... like-... three kilo tricep extensions like this. When-
- YUYusef
I- it's- it's a real regression, isn't it? Like-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, when you've got tons and tons of biomechanical, uh, biomechanical control just sat latent in your brain, that you-
- YUYusef
So, is that ... I, I wonder if that's just people, like, compartmentalizing their, their ... 'cause yeah, like, to have a background in dance, like the amount of proprioception you need. Like I'm, you know, I, I've done gymnastics for years and I still look at the dancers and think, "Bloody hell, that's, that's a whole nother another level."
- JOJonny
Yeah.
- YUYusef
So yeah, it ... like, if you can cross over those skills, and I ... like, I'm so grateful that I had a background in gymnastics 'cause I see so many people at my age or even five, 10 years younger that are like, "Oh, I wish I did a bit more of that stuff when I was younger and it's really hard now," and, and they feel really creaky. And to have just had some lower level gymnastic skill when you're younger, just means that, yeah, like, you pick up any new skill so easily, except anything with a ball. I'm terrible with anything with a ball, really.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Yeah, you are bad with everything with a ball. But I mean there was a-
- JOJonny
Oh, with the Frisbee.
- YUYusef
Oh, just anything like that.
- CWChris Williamson
Also bad with, bad with a Frisbee, yeah. Throw ... Uh, eh!
- YUYusef
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Um, yet that's, again, that's ano- that's another really good point though. Like, think about what your athletic base is, especially that go back to guys. A lot of guys might have done like you say football or rugby or something as a kid. Like, you have a really solid aerobic base. Really solid. You'll understand how to run, you'll understand how to cut and change direction, and like, you know, even just going from that to just doing 5Ks is probably not maximizing what you're, what you're capable of doing. You know, obstacle racing or something like that would actually be maximizing your, uh, fitness inheritance, I suppose, a little bit better.
- YUYusef
Mm-hmm. I think, yeah. I- I-
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, no, I, I ... like I say, I just think, w- why don't you, um, why don't you both give us a 30,000-foot view of your fitness careers and how the, how the menopause hit? I think that will be interesting.
- JOJonny
(sighs) Okay.
- YUYusef
Go for it, Jonny. (laughs)
- JOJonny
All right. Uh, 15, 16, fat kid, started getting bullied. I was like, "Right, well, I'm not having that." So started, started ... watched a Rocky film, started running. Realized running wasn't the answer, read a couple of copies of Men's Health, Men's Fitness, started doing loads of curls, like loads of curls and like press-ups and all that sort of stuff. Then gym sort of progressively worked its way through. Like, that's when I met Yusuf for the first time, when he was doing like squats three times a week and drinking a gallon of milk a day.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JOJonny
I think-
- YUYusef
Just, yeah. Oh. (laughs)
- JOJonny
lots of that stuff. So like lots of like, lots of ... I remember like the first time t- trying creatine and all that sort of stuff just in this desperate attempt to get lean for the first time. Got lean for the first time, then realized actually, like, being strong and training f- ... so then, like, did my first bulk ever, and realized that gaining we- gaining weight and gaining strength was actually more exciting than losing weight and losing strength. (laughs) And so did like 13 ra- 13 blocks of five-three-one, hit my first ever like 500-pound deadlift, squatted 200 kilos for the first time with Yusuf in ... where were we?
- YUYusef
Washington? Was it not?
- JOJonny
No.
- YUYusef
Oh, Kenton.
- JOJonny
Kenton, Kenton gym. Um, and then like that-
- CWChris Williamson
There's a gym in Kenton?
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
(laughs) …
- YUYusef
of the-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- YUYusef
... the S1 dermatome of my left leg. Um-
- JOJonny
Yeah, yeah, me too, mate (laughs) .
- CWChris Williamson
That was a long time.
- YUYusef
(laughs) So it was like sort of like shuffling around for a few months, like I couldn't, couldn't extend my left foot. Thinking like, "Well, that's it. I've finally done it." Like I've ignored all the pain signals-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- YUYusef
... dead lifting and, you know-
- CWChris Williamson
Crippled muscle.
- YUYusef
And it's because... Well, it, and it's actually be- totally because of this, this like bravado attitude you see online of like, "If you don't squat every day to a max you're a pussy. And if, if you're in pain it's, it, you know, you just gotta train through it," and all this stuff. And I just, like there, there was literally, I- I've got a screenshot of like some marketing thing from T Nation of a guy saying, "I was taking this micro PA supplement and I gained 15 pounds of muscle even while I was so ill that I had to drag an oxygen canister around the gym with me." And, I mean, you're like-
- CWChris Williamson
If that's not irresponsible marketing...
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- YUYusef
Hmm.
- JOJonny
Do you remember the vi- the video that was like, "Sebastian Coiset gained 400 pounds on his leg press and dropped 25% body fat," and you're like, "Oh my God." (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. That's what I need.
- JOJonny
Such good marketing.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- YUYusef
Yeah, so did, did that program. Body Building... Well, i- iBodyBuilder.
- JOJonny
iBodyBuilder.
- YUYusef
God, that was so-
- JOJonny
That was developed out of a black ops bodybuilding project, do you remember?
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- YUYusef
Really well produced.
- CWChris Williamson
Fucking hell.
- YUYusef
Um, so-
- CWChris Williamson
You couldn't get away with that now. I mean in the, in the-
- JOJonny
No.
- CWChris Williamson
... in the era of GDPR there's no way you could've gotten away with, with a-
- JOJonny
(laughs) Excuse me! Have you got my leg press data?
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- 1:00:00 – 1:11:13
Is that a study…
- JOJonny
for when they're, when they're wanting to, to look better is biceps, abs, shoulders, triceps, like... Whereas the attributes that women on average prefer physically in men are glutes, back, um, and legs. So it's-
- CWChris Williamson
Is that a study somewhere?
- JOJonny
Yeah, I'll, I'll try and find the citation. But it's, it, it basically says that, like, we, we are optimizing for the wrong thing.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JOJonny
If you're, if you're training to, to look better for the opposite sex, like, the things that you think are important are not the things that people find attractive in you.
- CWChris Williamson
The opposite. Do the opposite.
- YUYusef
Yeah. I was saying this to Becca the other day. We were just walking Dexter, and I just had this realization of like, you can tell a lot about someone by how much they barbell row.
- CWChris Williamson
... yeah.
- JOJonny
Like, you can't- y- meet someone with a huge barbell row and like, that person, very patient-
- CWChris Williamson
Wasn't an accident.
- JOJonny
Wa- definitely wasn't an accident. Wa- isn't doing it really for any kind of approval because like, who brags about their barbell row? You can't see the effect of a barbell row in the mirror. It is pure, just like I am in the pursuit of self-improvement here.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JOJonny
And that's all I'm after. I just wanna slightly improve my barbell row over time.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) And the- the data suggests it makes you more attractive as well.
- JOJonny
So, and I- I don't think there are very many other... Well, exactly, yeah. I just don't think there are very many other exercises you can say that of. Maybe a dumb- so any rowing movement. Chin up probably as well. But even that's a bit- it feels a bit more bicep-y.
- CWChris Williamson
A bit showy.
- JOJonny
Yeah, a bit more showy.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, and deadlifts. Deadlifts-
- JOJonny
I don't know. I think like, that's the most weight you can move, isn't it, on an exercise pretty much?
- CWChris Williamson
Mm, yeah.
- JOJonny
Some people are doing ri- like, three-inch rack pulls. You're like, "Come on, mate."
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, "What's going on here?"
- JOJonny
"Stop this."
- CWChris Williamson
"Look at that, look at that." Uh, so yeah, I think, like I say, part of a broader change that people have where they start to remember that they used to do art as a kid, "Oh, maybe I'm gonna need to go and take an art class, or maybe I'm gonna start doing another language. Oh, I'll re-pick up the guitar. I haven't played that in however many years." Or you know, and this is- I- to some of the listeners who are older than we are, this might just sound like we're going, "Yes, mate, that's what getting fucking older is."
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Whereas to us we're like, "Oh, look, my body- my body's changing and my injuries aren't going away as quickly." And it's like, "Yeah, welcome to aging, motherfucker."
- JOJonny
Yeah, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, I- I would quite like if- if there's anyone listening who is over the age of 35, 40 and thinks that we're just spouting absolute obvious truisms, then please comment and let us know.
- JOJonny
(laughs) Yeah, but everything's- everything's obvious to someone, isn't it?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
Episode duration: 1:12:32
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