By playing, you agree to uListen's Terms and Privacy Policy and YouTube's Terms of Service.
My First Million4 Profitable Business Ideas That Men Are Sleeping On | ft. Codie Sanchez (#512)
Summaries, chapters, transcripts, and FAQs on this page are made by uListen, not YouTube.
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
115 min read · 23,017 words- 0:00 – 3:00
Intro
- SPShaan Puri
I just got a text message that says, "Let's get some estrogen in this bitch." That's right, we have a guest host today. Sam is out. He had a baby. Congratulations to him. [claps] But we have Codie Sanchez here to take his place, and Codie texted me because she says, "I got a bunch of ideas for dudes who don't understand the women's market, and, uh, they're not playing these games. There's less competition, but these are big opportunities." So she said she's got four ideas that are blind spots for men but that the women will understand. So for the four female listeners out there, this is your day. Today is your day, the moment you've been waiting for. It only took us 500 episodes to make an episode that is catered around ideas for the, the market for women. I can barely even say it. I don't even understand. I'm excited to see what she says. The second thing that I'm gonna do is Codie is always on social media talking about buying laundromats, and I'm gonna ask her, I'm gonna ask her, "Codie, do you really buy fucking laundromats? And do these make money? And why are you buying these things?" So that's what's coming in the second half of the episode. And at the end, I'm gonna ask her about her content game, because she's built up a following, co- millions of followers now. She said she does 100 million impressions a month across all her channels, and this is all kind of in three years. So she's built an amazing social brand, but with that comes a bunch of haters and people saying that she's just, like, a, a business guru or a grifter. So I'm gonna ask her straight up, I'm gonna say, "Hey, what's the deal? Codie, are you a grifter, and what's your response to that? Address the haters." And we're gonna ask her to address the haters. So that's what's in this episode. Hope you enjoy this episode with our guest host, Codie Sanchez. [upbeat music] Okay, um, what's up? We got Codie Sanchez in the house, guest host. Congrats to Sam. He had his baby. He's out on, um, on daddy leave, paddy leave, whatever, whatever people call it nowadays. He is, um, going skin-to-skin. He is swaddling. He is diaper changing. I'm sure he's doing all those things. Haven't actually asked him, 'cause gotta give the man some space. But, um, I decided while Sam's out, I wanna have guest hosts. So not just a guest, but a guest host, and what I mean by that is... Here's the criteria. Somebody who I already know and like, so a friend, a friend of the house. Number two is they gotta know the vibe. So they live, listen to MFM, they know that what this podcast is all about is talking about ideas, opportunities, or interesting businesses that not everybody knows about. So they gotta come prepared with that. And, uh, it's like a host, so you're taking the role of Sam. Codie, how does that feel? Are you, are you ready to be Sam?
- CSCodie Sanchez
D- do I have to drink hose water-
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs] Yeah
- CSCodie Sanchez
... uh, if I also co-host? Is that-
- SPShaan Puri
You, you know Sam really, really well. You've hung out with him in person, so I feel like you got his, uh, you know his vibe. [laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah, totally. Yeah. Uh, no, Sam's a dear friend, and so is Sarah. And I think they're gonna make hell of parents, so I'm stoked. But yes, those are big, huge, giant shoes, and he's a giant man, to fill, so I'll try to do the best I can.
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs] And, um, for people who don't know, give us, like, the 30 seconds, you know, wh- who are you, uh, so that, so that people understand who, you know, who they're messing with.
- CSCodie Sanchez
[laughs] Yeah. Uh, well, I run something called Contrarian Thinking, which is probably how
- 3:00 – 7:00
Traditional Wife Movement
- CSCodie Sanchez
people know about me on the internet. That's a newsletter actually, like, slightly inspired by Sam and our other friends at Morning Brew. Um, it's got a couple hundred thousand subscribers now, hoping to get to a million by the end of the year. And that media company overall gets about 100 million views a month, like five million subscribers, which is kinda cool. And I talk on the internet about boring businesses and stuff that I've invested in for a long time. So for forever, I'm, like, old for the internet, but for forever, I was in investment banking and private equity and buying small businesses like private equity people do. And then just holding them and, I guess, like, the real way to say it would be a family office. Uh, and then that became bigger, so we turned it into a holding company, and now we buy s- what I call small boring businesses and then talk to other people about how to do the same.
- SPShaan Puri
So you sent me this Notion doc that can only be described as prolific, epic. It's got, like, 30 genuinely interesting, uh, ideas and opportunities in this. We're not gonna get through all of them, but I bucketed some of them into, uh, category one. So to opportunity one, you called, "Let's get some estrogen in this bitch." Go ahead. I'll... Take the floor.
- CSCodie Sanchez
I feel like because I am a legitimate fan of the pod, uh, I know, I know my fellow, uh, pod listeners, and the idea was that for everybody on Twitter, Broine, who typically listens to this podcast, maybe there's this, like, segment of the market with a little bit more estrogen than you guys have, uh, that we could steal their homework. And there are all these businesses that, like, I would love to see more of. And so since people on the pod actually go out there and do things and build these businesses, we'll give you some ideas. I don't know where you wanna start, but I basically was joking with your, your producer, and I was like, "Is this legitimate, or is Codie crazy?" And she was like... She said explicitly, "I feel like you saw into my soul." [laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah.
- CSCodie Sanchez
And so, uh, it's safe to say women everywhere, I think, will like these ideas. Or you'll tell us if you hate it on the internet.
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah. I've known producer Ari for... She, she's been with us for, like, two weeks now, three weeks maybe, and, uh, I've never seen her smile like this hard. Uh, she's so excited for this segment. [laughs] So I wanna do the one that, that stood out to me right away. You, you said the Traditional Wife Movement.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Oh, yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
I think the best business ideas start with, like, a, um, a behavioral observation, so just a behavioral phenomenon. You notice people doing something, or you notice the pendulum swinging where people used to feel one way or the popular sentiment is one thing, but you notice people starting to gravitate towards the other end of that, uh, of that spectrum. That's usually where there's, like, a real, real opportunity. So what's, what's an observation here that you have?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah. So if, so if people don't know the trad wife movement, I find it fascinating. And basically w- how I came across it, as one does, is I was on Instagram scrolling my life away, and I saw this, like, beautiful woman, flowy dress, no shoes, running through-
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
... like, what I could only describe as a field that was her house. And, um, and overlaid on top of it, she had, like, her little child in front of her, and it was like, "Girl boss?" Question mark. I wanna be a hobbit mama. And I was just, like, giggling kind of ridiculously at this, and then I thought, "Well, I kinda, I kinda feel that." Like, I feel like we, we know from COVID everybody, like, wanted to go be a gentleman farmer, right? I think you guys talked about that. But this is, like, the 2.0 version. And so what happened from this one video I saw is that Instagram realized I watched it longer than I guess I do other things.
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
So I got served up all this stuff, and boy, before you fucking know it, uh, Shaan, I buy some white pumpkins, some flowers-
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
... to press onto them, and I'm fucking gluing pansies on a pumpkin. Now, you actually know me. I, like, I don't have hobbies. Like, all I do is work. We run a bunch of businesses. I'm, like, not that fun. And I'm, I'm sitting in front of the TV gluing pumpkins, and that's when I realized, I think this is gonna be huge. So I looked up the TikTok, uh, views for this search of tradwife, 187 million, which was wild, and we could, like, play with a bunch of different ideas. But then I was like, maybe this is the counterculture movement to the Call Her Daddy move.
- SPShaan Puri
Hm.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Which, like, used to be the top of the charts, and looks like it's come down from top one or two podcasts to top 20 to 30 on the charts. And so th- the idea is how could we
- 7:00 – 13:00
Anti-Call Her Daddy
- CSCodie Sanchez
play to that market? [upbeat music] Our software is the worst.
- SPSpeaker
Have you heard of HubSpot? See, most CRMs are a cobbled-together mess. But HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous.
- SPShaan Puri
I think I love our new CRM.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Our software is the best.
- SPSpeaker
HubSpot. Grow better.
- SPShaan Puri
So first of all, do you feel threatened? I, I feel like you're the girlboss, like, you, you are in the, the top ranking. If somebody said, "Oh, name, like, five girlboss people," I'd be like, "Oh, Sophia Amorusa," then I'd say you. Like, I feel like that's kinda you, uh, in terms of your public image. Do you look at this like, uh, you know, kryptonite in, in some way-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Definitely
- SPShaan Puri
... where you're like, "Oh, shit, uh, they're going the other way now?" What, what, what do you, what's your reaction to this?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Well, like, honestly, that whole girlboss, boss babe, babes bosses, money, like, I wanna die. I wanna die on the inside-
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
... anytime I see any of those names. And I remember once I got invited to a speech, and they were like, "We need a female CEO, uh, to speak here." And I was like, "I'm really unclear what my vagina has to do about this."
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
And the guy was like, "It's..." Like, I could just feel him shriveling.
- SPShaan Puri
Right [laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
You know, on his email. Like, I was like, "I don't think it's relevant." Um, so I'm kinda curious. I'm hugely biased, so who knows if I'm right, but, um, I'm happily married. I'm, like, a very big family gal. Like, I, I don't talk about sex on the internet, like Call Her Daddy. I think you should do whatever you want, just not my jam. Um, so I'm kinda curious. Like, we had these two worlds for so long, right? You were either single, crazy fem, you know, don't need no man, independent-
- SPShaan Puri
Right
- CSCodie Sanchez
... or you were traditional, stay at home, you know, protect the, the f- familial unit. And I just think both seem sort of ridiculous, so can't we have people who, like, I don't know, both people have some sorts of hobbies-
- SPShaan Puri
Of course
- CSCodie Sanchez
... and work? And that, uh, may be just wishful thinking 'cause the world's too polarized for that.
- SPShaan Puri
Well, I think, uh, to- I totally agree with you, and I think that obviously we, in a way, we simplify ourselves to make ourselves a great brand. Like-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah
- SPShaan Puri
... the simpler the logo, the simpler the slogan, the simpler the, the, the less three-dimensional you are, the easier it is as a brand initially. And then, of course, you're like, "No, no, no, but I'm, I have all these layers. You know? I, I do have the soft side. I do have this other..." Right? Like, I do this. Every, anybody who's built a brand on the internet does this. You first simplify, and then you try to add depth. And so, um, the downside of the simpl- the upside of the simplify is you get a whole bunch of followers. A bunch of people know you for boring businesses and kicking ass in the, in the business world.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yep.
- SPShaan Puri
People know Sweaty Starter for the Sweaty Starter thing. They don't wanna hear his stock picks. They don't wanna hear his other stuff because it's not on brand for him. And of course, people do wanna shift over time. What I find interesting in this, like, this observation you have, I actually think there's three. So I think there's the Call Her Daddy, which I'll, I'll put in there, which is, like, the, um, sex positive, sort of like, uh, girls can be players too. Um, it's more of a relationship empowerment thing, but not so much career. Then you have the career work empowerment, which is like, you know, l- like you said, "What does my vagina have anything to do with this?" And then you have the sort of traditional values. And of course, people float between all three, depending on the day, the situation, the phase of life that they're in, et cetera. I've definitely noticed this movement coming because my wife is exactly like this. She's like, she's like, "Yeah, it's imp- I can't say this, like, out in the world, but I kinda like gender roles. Like, I just want you to take out the trash, and I'm down to do this stuff with the kids, and then I, y- I just want you to always drive." And, like, she's like, "Why? I don't wanna fight all this." And she's also like, she's wor- she worked really hard. She had a better career than me, uh, when we met and stuff like that. Like, she was totally good at that, but she also was like, "Yeah, I really wanna be a stay-at-home wife. Like, that's my next phase. Um, you know, I, I want that. I just wanna do house stuff." And, like, that's where her mindset was at at the time. And so it is very in- And, but I, but I noticed that she couldn't really come out and say that. And any time there's, like, a, there's a belief or behavior that can't be said, there's an opportunity. This is what Trump capitalized on when he became president, was there was a bunch of thoughts in people's heads that he was the only guy willing to say out loud. Um, and, and there's a whole bunch of examples of this in business, where there are, um, like Grindr's a good example of this. There was a, a behavior that was happening that was not compatible with traditional dating, and Grindr came in and enabled that, spoke to that, and was able to do it even though it was s- somewhat taboo. Um, and they're, and they're not always in these, like, gr- uh, sketchy areas. Another example of that would be, uh, Snapchat. So when everything became public and permanent, 'cause Facebook was the big social network, and then Instagram was the big social network, and it was, like, perfectly filtered photos publicly on display, not even for your friends and family, for all your followers, and it goes on your feed. And then you had Snapchat come out, which was like, "Make a silly face. It's gonna disappear in five seconds." And so it's like-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah
- SPShaan Puri
... the, the bigger one thing gets, the craving grows for the opposite, for the other, for the anti-whatever the current thing is.
- CSCodie Sanchez
It's true. Well, even, I mean, you can see it If you look at the Kardashians' body types, for instance, like, they were like, you know, they were, they had a lot of butt, they had a lot of up top, they had a lot of curve going on there for a minute, and that became the n- the norm, right? You saw, like, people getting fillers that were huge. I mean, huge, uh, industry. Cosmetology and, and men's spas experienced the biggest growth increase, uh, during any historical period of the US, which is wild. We looked at investing in a couple of them, and I was like, "The margins these places make are, is incredible." And then what do you see now? The Kardashians, if you're up, up to the know now, Shaan, [laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah
- CSCodie Sanchez
... the Kardashians now are, like, removing their Brazilian butt lifts, they're taking out fillers. There's, like, that one, Blac Chyna, she, like, got rid of everything. I guess she had a ton of stuff.
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- 13:00 – 21:00
Business idea: Hobby Lobby 2.0
- SPShaan Puri
talking about, like, a basketball league, like a Brazilian basketball league, and I was like, "Oh, this, this could be a great conversation." And then I, quickly, I realized I was completely out of my depth. I had no idea what anyone was talking about. But it's true, right? Like, the Jenner, Kendall Jenner, whatever, like, totally opposite body type as, as Kim Kardashian, right? So it is a, I guess, like, a sign of the times. So what would you do off this? So you notice the trad wife movement. You see the TikTok views going up. You see people in- more interested in this lifestyle. You start buying white pumpkins and hot gluing live, laugh, love on them. So-
- CSCodie Sanchez
[laughs] Can't believe you said that
- SPShaan Puri
... what, what happens next? What's the opportunity here?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Okay. Well, a couple of them that I thought were fascinating. So one is, I'm sure you don't spend any time on the weekend here, but a bunch of chicks, and people do in general, it's called Hobby Lobby, and basically it's, you know, crafting. But if you think about what the store looks like, it looks like kind of a gnarly CVS, right?
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
Fluorescent lights, everything's a little dirty, too much stuff crammed in there. Why does anybody need 472 toothbrush, uh, toothpaste SKUs? Like, nobody knows. And it's always packed, which astounds me. Um, then I was like, how big is this company? And apparently they do $7 billion a year in sale, which is wild. And then TJ Maxx, HomeGoods, and that whole entity is, like, 51 billion. I don't know how big HomeGoods is as a portion of it, but HomeGoods would be like Hobby Lobby, but it's done for you. So Hobby Lobby is like, "Eh, here's a bunch of, here's a recipe."
- SPShaan Puri
Right, the ingredients.
- CSCodie Sanchez
"We're gonna give you the ingredients. You put it together." And then HomeGoods is like, "Eh, Codie doesn't have to paint the pumpkin. It's already there."
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
She gets to buy it, live, laugh, love included, right?
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Um, and what I thought was funny is I was chatting beforehand with Ari about this, and I was like, "There's some crazy thing about women and candles." Is your wife like this, Shaan?
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
Does she love a good candle?
- SPShaan Puri
Crazy? Yeah. Go on. [laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
[laughs] I do not stand by that wife of Shaan, by the way.
- SPShaan Puri
She doesn't listen. Don't worry. [laughs] She's never heard one episode. [laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
[laughs] Um, but women, like, we l- as a gross generality, I'm sure a bunch of people are gonna hate this on the internet afterwards, but as a gross generality, there's, like, something, uh, that we love about a discount on, like, a HomeGoods item.
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
Like a nice little vase, a candle. Drives men crazy. But I think that there's a play here for a HomeGoods or Hobby Lobby 2.0, and all you would have to do is have any sort of retail experience, walk in there, go, "Oh, God, there's nothing nice about this place-
- SPShaan Puri
Right
- CSCodie Sanchez
... except that it has what is required," um, and, like, church it up. So that's one thing.
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
Especially 'cause, 'cause re- retail's so cheap right now. Like, we owned a commercial, um, strip mall and, uh, couldn't fill the fucking thing. I mean, really having a hard time, and so I like that play.
- SPShaan Puri
I like that too. I have a friend that, um, owns almost a billion dollars of real estate outright, so not a fund. Like, they own it. It's about 60/40 equity, uh, and debt, and they, um... One of... I was like... And they do commercial retail, and I remember sitting with him and I was like, "Dude, commercial, like, isn't that dead? Like, what are you... In my world, it's like everything's going online, and retail, brick and mortar, like, this is a graveyard. You're leaning in. You're, you're doubling down. Why do you... Don't you need to get rid of this portfolio ASAP?" And he was like, "Yes, in general, but there's a, um..." He's like, "The segment I went into is, like, super resilient. Nobody can touch them." He goes, "My number one tenant in all of my..." He basically goes to these, like, giant strip mall type places, like, or shopping centers that are empty. Can't, can't fill a, a, a lease. And he goes to Hobby Lobby, he says, "Would you like to be here?" And Hobby Lobby's like, "Yes, we're expanding." 'Cause I was like, "Who's expanding right now?" He's like, "I'll tell you who's expanding. Hobby Lobby, HomeGoods." And then he explained all these, and he's like, "Basically, anything that's got, um, this kind of DIY craft thing," he's like, "It's... You, you can't touch it." He's like, "There's, there's so much, uh, demand for it, they just keep expanding." He goes, "Also, the HomeGoods thing," he's like, "There's, um, there's, like, a treasure hunt dynamic to it," which is exactly what you just said. He goes, "Women want to physically go to the store because it's a deal hunting experience that if you can find..." What did you call it? A vase? Is a vase and a vase the same thing? Uh-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Same thing.
- SPShaan Puri
Oh, wow.
- CSCodie Sanchez
You nailed it.
- SPShaan Puri
And you're just cool if you say one, and you're me if you say the other? All right. Gotcha. So you go f- you find, you find the deal, the sort of needle in a haystack type of thing, and it's kind of thrift shopping, but at a, like, high-end, you know, in a high-end way. Um, and he's like, "Yeah, these are super resilient right now." And there was a couple other categories like, you know, car repair, things like that, things that you couldn't take online. Um, but he's basically isolated into these, like, super resilient ones that now are like, "Oh, we can go pick up prime real estate everywhere because of this." And I'm with you. The Hobby Lobby 1.0, which is, like, the current Hobby Lobby, is, like, you know, half CVS, half Home Depot or something like that. It's not like-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah, exactly
- 21:00 – 26:00
Business idea: Pop-up Seasonal Retail
- CSCodie Sanchez
"Let's go to HomeGoods, honey," and, like, take her around and get her some candles.
- SPShaan Puri
Oh, that's a great idea.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah. Are you gonna write that down for later?
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah, no, I don't even need to write that down. That went straight to my core memory, uh, [laughs] as like, you know, just default. Actually, I'm gonna do that preventatively every Friday just, uh, just in case. Um, y-
- CSCodie Sanchez
And it's cheap, so there's that.
- SPShaan Puri
You had, you had another one on here that I thought was interesting. You said you tried to buy a Halloween Express.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Oh, yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
That's fascinating. Tell me, w- why'd you try to buy it?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
And why is it a try? Sounds like you didn't end up buying it. Why not?
- CSCodie Sanchez
We didn't end up buying it. Somebody else bought it. Um, and, um, basically we tried to buy it because we saw it was $600,000 for a pop-up location, and I should make sure I get this right, but it was, like, three or four retail locations plus whatever last year's inventory was. So there was, like, a lot of there there. They already had the leases-
- SPShaan Puri
Right
- CSCodie Sanchez
... they already had the locations, and it was right before Halloween. Now, I don't really-
- SPShaan Puri
And wait, explain. So this is, Halloween Express is like Spirit where it pops up for 60 days or something like that before Halloween-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Right
- SPShaan Puri
... and it just takes over a vacant space. Is that it?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Well, yes, could take over a vacant sta- space. A lot of times they pre-negotiate the contracts, but basically, you know, retail has so much data behind it. Usually they know, like, "Oh, X percentage of these commercial strip malls will be open at any point in time. So if we do a contract with Halloween Express this year, there's likely gonna be one location that's open." And then the wild part about, uh, Spirit and Halloween Express, I always get the two confused, but they have the same model, which is, like, every store is 10,000 square feet. So they'll have a Target, which is, I don't know, what, 60, 100000 square feet, but they only take up 10,000 square feet inside of the store. And if you've ever been in one, they kinda throw up these real, it's like drapes, basically.
- SPShaan Puri
Right
- CSCodie Sanchez
And, you know, racks for clothing that you could buy, uh, online. And-
- SPShaan Puri
'Cause they're just trying to standardize the, the, the rollout of the store quickly and cheaply.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Exactly. Exactly. It's like, it's like the IKEA, uh, furniture of stores, you know?
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
It's like every single time, we put it in the box, you have the list of things that you need, and it's up in, in, uh... Well, we talked to a contractor who could do the build-out for us, and he said that those things go up in a matter of sometimes days, which he said would be aggressive, but, like, two weeks. He's like, "Two weeks, you can have an entire Halloween Express up," which is wild because a normal store is months, if not a year, to throw up. So anyway, we tried to buy this one kind of for shits and giggles because, uh, I thought we could make cool content around it, and then maybe we could try to sell it, um, and I wanted to understand the business model. And then somebody else bought it out from under us, basically. But, uh, that's when I went down to this deep rabbit hole of, oh my God, the average, uh, commercial, let's call it retail store, costs millions to throw up and takes months, and Spirit or Halloween Express costs maybe 10 to $50,000 to throw up and is up in days or weeks. So just, like, speed to execution has to make this a much more interesting business model.
- SPShaan Puri
So how much would a business like that make? Let's say you buy one of these, uh, businesses, and this was, you said, three locations for 600K plus the inventory, so you're right, like, uh, that's a lot. Um, the, uh, what would you, what, what do you, what would one of those locations net? Um, do you think at the end of that season?
- CSCodie Sanchez
In a Halloween season.
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Well, I think they said that it was somewhere around a million dollars. So three locations inside of... They're open for two months a year, they would bring in a million dollars. I think it was like 950 or something like that.
- SPShaan Puri
That's revenue, though, right?
- CSCodie Sanchez
That's revenue.
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah.
- 26:00 – 33:00
Business Idea: Fantasy Werewolf Romance Novel
- CSCodie Sanchez
to the witches, the lions, the wardrobes, whatever people do each year. And so yeah, if we think that the inventory for that place was probably, you know, $200,000, $250,000 in inventory that they had. You know, yeah, probably each year you're paying, like, $50,000 to $100,000 in, like, the net new inventory, then you can roll some over. Um, but yeah, I don't... I mean, the problem is I didn't get to actually do it, so I don't know-
- SPShaan Puri
Okay
- CSCodie Sanchez
... the true numbers, but that seems, that seems reasonable.
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah. Yeah, okay. Uh, all right. Fair enough. Okay, so H- Halloween store, interesting. You have a couple other ones on here that I just don't know anything about, but I wanna hear what you have to say. You wrote the words fantasy werewolf romance novel. [laughs] What you talking about?
- CSCodie Sanchez
[laughs] Yeah. So we have a, we have a group where we all buy businesses together, and, um, this one, uh, lady comes on, and she's like, "I bought a, um, romance novel book company." So they write them, they distribute them, and they market them, sort of three, three levels to the business. And I was like, "That's fascinating." And she started explaining some of the titles, and then she's kind of a funny character, and so she was like, "The thing is, romant- romance werewolves, huge category. Like, biggest growing category." And I was like, "Okay, um, talk to me about that." And she basically said, of all the titles that she has, uh, I can't remember how many she had, but let's say, like, 25, 30 titles that she bought. The outselling ones, the 80/20 rule for her 25 to 30 book business were this fantasy romance category. And then, because I'm a woman and I also read books, I was like, "Let's look at my thing. Like, do I ever read this category?" And it turns out I'm a fantasy reader, and some of them have werewolves in them. [laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
So I was like, "Th- this is weird. Am I weird? Is she weird, or is this category?" And then I went and, and researched it, and I think you guys have covered this before, but there's, like, $1.3 billion are sold of romance books a year. And, uh, and it's huge. It's, like, almost, in some cases, you know, a quarter to half of the entire industry. Um, but the part that, that got me the most was realizing romance is growing hugely, but it's with, like, we're the target audience my age. So, like, somewhere in the realm of, uh, 18 to let's call it 45, which used to be, like, the long-haired Fabio romance novels.
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah.
- CSCodie Sanchez
That used to be the deal, and I guess now this fantasy level is taking over. Um, and what's interesting is you can kinda tell because if you look up the best-selling books of all time, Harry Potter, 500 mil, Twilight, 160, Fifty Shades, 150. They're, they're, like, kind of morphing together, and so I'm curious to see what happens next, but I kinda like this industry. I can't really see you writing a werewolf fantasy novel, Shaan-
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
... but maybe.
- SPShaan Puri
Maybe as a stunt. You know that Sam wrote a romance novel once. Do you know that story?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Oh, f- I forgot about that. He d- or did he write it, or did he-
- SPShaan Puri
They ghostwr-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Did he write it?
- SPShaan Puri
They, like, ghostwrote it. So basically, sa- same sort of observation. He's like, "You know when people are like, 'Oh, Amazon Best Seller,' and then it's, like, everybody and their mom is Amazon Best Seller." He's like, "What does this word mean, actually?" Uh, you know, uh, it's, like, [laughs] in the bottom of the power rankings of meaningful titles, it's, like, Forbes 30 Under 30, and even below that is Amazon Best Seller because-
- CSCodie Sanchez
It's so true
- SPShaan Puri
... it means nothing. And so, um, what he found was that to be a best seller, you basically pick some niche category, and then for a day, the, you know, you, uh, sell, you know, a thousand copies or something like that at 99 cents, and you've become a best seller. You screenshot that, and you're, you're a best seller. You get the flag. Some version of that. So it's, like, a, it's a very, like, gamified thing. You, there's all these subcategories.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Interesting.
- SPShaan Puri
So you're, you're trying to just get to the number one inside health, health, and wellness, inside by a new emerging author or whatever. You know, like, there's all these, like, subcategories. So he found somebody who had done this. So they were ba- they were making good money, like, tens of thousands a month, I think, selling, um, romance novels on Amazon on just ebooks. And so he commissioned somebody to write one. Uh, or he wrote, like, a couple, and it was, like, boss and a s- it was, like, a boss and a secretary, and another one was, like, a w- like, a werewolf and a something. And, um, [laughs] he commissioned somebody to write it, and then they wrote it, and it, they did it. They hit the Amazon Best Seller. It's out there somewhere. You can find this if you just Google.
- CSCodie Sanchez
No. Does he still make money on that?
- SPShaan Puri
Uh, no, no, no, [laughs] not anymore. I think they took it down, uh-
- CSCodie Sanchez
That's incredible. Well, I mean, honestly, if you go and you-
- SPShaan Puri
By the way, the blog post is called Confessions From the Scammy Underground World of Kindle Books.
- CSCodie Sanchez
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
And so, um, h- his book was called Untamed Billionaire, Undressed Virgin. [laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
Jesus, Sam. [laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
There have been so many times... That guy.
- SPShaan Puri
That's incredible.
- 33:00 – 38:00
Business Idea: Gamified Fertility Tracking
- CSCodie Sanchez
in some way. What... You know, Joseph Campbell talks about the hero's journey, right? And everybody basically use that, uses that, from the Bible to Star Wars to, you know, Twilight, et cetera. I mean, the other thing that I remember, so I actually went to, to a high school that was right next to, and so we were close with the high school of the, the woman who wo- wrote Twilight, Stephenie. And I remember when it was going wild, that wasn't my category. And so, um, I, like, reached out to her and was like, "Hey," like, "congratulations on your first book. I'm so excited for you. You know, I just wanted to let you know," like, "I bought a few books for you."
- SPShaan Puri
To help out. [laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
You know, to help out. [laughs] And then in retrospect, and then I, like, looked at her sales, I was like, "Oh, cool. Cool, cool."
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
Anyway, [laughs] I'm gonna go, uh-
- SPShaan Puri
Does she reply?
- CSCodie Sanchez
... hide in a corner.
- SPShaan Puri
Does she ever respond?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah. Uh, no, I don't know. I don't think she did. But you know what, Stephenie? I was, I was here for you from the beginning.
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah. Actually, not from the beginning, though. That's the bad part, is it was already successful.
- CSCodie Sanchez
[laughs] Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
Um, that's really good.
- CSCodie Sanchez
True.
- SPShaan Puri
Okay, so let's, um, let's do one more that's in this, uh, y- the segment that you called Gets Mestrigened in this Bitch. Have we gotten enough Mestrigened? I don't know. We gotta get one more idea in here.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
Y- Go, pick, pick your favorite.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Okay, how about one that I think could be a billion-dollar business, but I don't have the how? So the MFM listeners are super smart. Maybe you guys can figure out the how. Um, you know, lots of our friends, and I don't know if you experience any of this, Shaan, but getting pregnant these days is, like, hard. You know, when we were young, I remember it was like, yeah, if you look at that guy sideways, like, pregnant. You know, shake hands, pregnant.
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
Everybody's pregnant.
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
And then as you get older, a- apparently, it's, like, now impossible. And I've experienced this firsthand. It's, like, expensive. You know, you go to the doctors, and then you have these different apps, and then you're tracking 472 different things. And the whole experience is, like, awful and, uh, expensive. And so I think there's a huge opportunity to do something in it. Because once that little box gets checked, like a woman is ready to have a baby or whatever, like, I don't know. We turn into crazy people. We'll do whatever it takes.
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
You know? You guys have... Uh, Sam was telling me some s- crazy stuff he was telling Sarah. I'm like, "I don't think that's true about how to get pregnant."
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
And, um, anyway. So for instance, there's this company called Mira, and it has this little, like, egg-shaped tester. And this is, like, a little TMI, but, like, you pee on a stick and it tells you how fertile you are, whatever.
- SPShaan Puri
Yep.
- CSCodie Sanchez
And the... Shaan, I kid you not, when I open the app, and I'm not a total idiot, uh, like, I can't tell what I'm tracking. And I can't tell what's happening in here. There are no notifications. There are no gamifications in it. And they charge you, it's, like, $50 for the, the sticks that they send you. And then it's like, somebody should check my math on this. I'm, I'm definitely wrong on the number, but it's, like, 150 to 200 bucks for this tiny little plastic egg that has to be created in, in China. And l- and that's it. And, uh, I never saw an ad for this. It's all, like, word of mouth referral. So I don't know what crazy ideas you have, but I feel like the people from MFM should solve this.
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs] Okay, let's, uh, let's brainstorm on the fly here. So, uh, first of all, when you started saying there was, like, this little egg-shaped thing, I thought where you were going was, uh, like you said, like a sort of a smart device, where... So you, you pee on the stick, it tells you kinda where you're at in your cycle. But how cool would that be as a little bedside replacement to your alarm clock? When it glows, hey, it's time. It's time to get busy. Uh, and you, you can see based on the light.
- CSCodie Sanchez
It's a glow bed?
- SPShaan Puri
So that's a little more tasteful than these apps that are like, "Oh- Your, you know, your, your ESG levels are spiking right now [laughs] or whatever.
- 38:00 – 46:00
Business Idea: Helping Gay Male Couples Adopt
- SPShaan Puri
uh, as you've, as you've noticed. So yeah, Flo, um, over, over 300, 300 million people have downloaded the app. Revenue's over 100 million for this app. It's a billion-dollar app, uh, that started off as a period tracking tracker app. It started off as, like, such a simple little mobile app at the time. So, so, you know, props to these guys, I think they're in Europe, uh, that built this thing. So the, uh, I think the mobile app space is... It, it was obviously, you know, kind of like one winner in this. Other ideas that I think are interesting. So somebody said this to me the other day, and I know nothing about this. I ha- put it on my list of, like, to research, but I haven't gotten around to it. So I'll just say the, the 1% of the idea that I have ready, which is... She goes... Somebody was talking to me and she goes, "Do you know how hard it is for a gay couple to adopt a baby?" And I said, "Sure don't. I have no idea. How hard is it?"
- CSCodie Sanchez
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
"Is it very hard?" She's like, "Nearly impossible."
- CSCodie Sanchez
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
And [laughs] she goes, "If you, if anybody created a company that just helped gay, male gay couples, um, adopt babies," uh, you know, because they're... Usually, that's, like, a very rich segment is, like, uh, gay male couples. It's, like, one of the highest, like, sort of average, uh, like, household incomes. Uh, obviously super high need or, like, no price sensitivity when it comes time, and convoluted low NPS, um, process. And so I think if somebody just went and interviewed, like, 100 couples that were trying to adopt right now, I bet you could find so- uh, I bet you could find a $500 million to a billion-dollar business out of 100 interviews of those couples. And I don't know what that idea is yet, but I... That's enough of a map for somebody to go, you know, find their own, um, immunity idol, to use my Survivor references.
- CSCodie Sanchez
It's a good point. I, I mean, it's sort of... I've been messing around lately thinking about levels to the game of business. Like, how... Like, it would be interesting to categorize all businesses as what level on a, let's call it just a multiple, uh, and margin level. If you just say, like, what multiple could you get for this business, and how high of margins do you get for this business, and maybe, like, how reasonable would it be for you get to, I don't know, 10 million or 100 million, whatever your goal post would be. Um, and I think, like, a level one business, a lower tier business that would be probably profitable on, like, day one to 30 would be helping just on the consulting aspect of that.
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Because you're right. I have a friend that paid $25,000 for help navigating the adoption process in Texas, and they... I should figure out what the name of the, the thing is that they asked for. But they paid a huge chunk of money just to help them figure out how to get higher on the lists-
- SPShaan Puri
Right
- CSCodie Sanchez
... for adoption in Texas. So if that exists, there's gotta be 32 different ways to do consulting for adoption in this space.
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah, yeah. B- basically, anybody who's, like, a clear, like in the airports, but for all life processes, not just lines at the airport.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Oh, yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
So it's like, uh, somebody's doing this right now, I saw, for H-1B visas. They're like... Again, like, if you're an immigrant in the United States, applying for a visa is literally, like, one of the, like, two things that keeps you up at night. Um, and so th- there's people that are like, "We're just H-1B, like, concierge. Um, like, we know this process inside out. You don't. You're just sitting here googling, reading forums. We know how to expedite some timelines. We know where you should pay money. We know where you shouldn't worry because it's just, this is normal. This is part of the standard delay. We know when you put your, put together your application, like, how to, which order to staple it together so that you have the best chance at success." And I find that, like, for these really complex workflows that are high ticket and high desire, like adopting a child, like getting your visa, uh, people are willing to pay, you know, whatever, 10 grand, 20 grand in order to do it. Um, obviously it's, you know, the richer segment there, but, but that, that's... And, and so you could go buy the lead for this, you know. You could advertise and get the lead for this, uh, you know, through Google for maybe two grand a lead, but you're making 20 grand per person that, uh, off, that, that comes out of that funnel.
- CSCodie Sanchez
That's smart. Well, even WeBull's invested... You invested in Hone Health too, right?
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah.
- CSCodie Sanchez
I invested in them also, and part of the, the stuff that I think is really smart with what they're doing is just it's such a pain to get, uh, access to those type of, you know, TRT and, and different things that men want, um, and do it in a legal way and really be able to trust what you're getting. And so there's probably a bunch of that inside the, the women's space too. Hone, I keep telling them they should launch something for women because I think it's a really underserved market. And if you think about it, you know, m- men sort of dominate most of the dieting trends in general. So you had, like, Tim Ferriss normalize keto, and so I tried keto for a while. And then I went to... I now have a doctor, Gabrielle Lyon, who's a stud, and she's like, "The thing is, that doesn't work as well for women."
- SPShaan Puri
Oh.
- CSCodie Sanchez
I'm like, "No, I read the book. I'm a huge-
- SPShaan Puri
Right
- CSCodie Sanchez
... Tim Ferriss fan." And it just turns out a lot of that stuff, males, m- men and women are biologically different. Um, and so yeah, I think there's lots of cool ways to play in that space. Also j- like, with stuff like, uh, peptides. Although, those are getting federally banned, so maybe not the best [laughs] idea right now.
- SPShaan Puri
Peptides are getting federally banned?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah, we should check my homework on that, but that's-
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
... the word from the husband is, uh-
- SPShaan Puri
Is that, like-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah
- SPShaan Puri
... Ozempic, a peptide?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Well, my understanding is most of the reason why peptides are getting banned is because they are hard to, uh, patent. And so, um, because of that, there's, you know, f- conspiracy theorists like big pharma doesn't like that, and so they're getting a lot of pushback. But my husband's, like, number one advocate thinks everybody-
- SPShaan Puri
Should be on peptides?
- CSCodie Sanchez
... should do research on it.
- 46:00 – 49:00
Codie's small business acquisition portfolio
- SPShaan Puri
I've made it moment
- CSCodie Sanchez
... right. And this is just for me. I can't speak to anybody else. But now when I see them I'm like, "Oh, it means we're doing okay," you know?
- SPShaan Puri
And even if it's on a subscription and you know he didn't think... He thought about it once three years ago, it doesn't matter. You just want the flowers.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Nope, still love it.
- SPShaan Puri
Okay, good. [laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yep, just want the flowers.
- SPShaan Puri
Okay, I'm gonna report back. I'm gonna try this-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Report back
- SPShaan Puri
... and then report back, 'cause-
- CSCodie Sanchez
But don't tell her, "I don't care, and I just set it up on subscription three years ago."
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
No, no qualifiers, okay?
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs] Well, you know, no guarantees with me. All right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
So, um, let's go to the, the small business acquisition stuff. So-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah
- SPShaan Puri
... first, explain your business model. So you got a media business, which is you create content, and your, your output is insane. Like, I put, you know, you, um, Pomp, and Sahil I feel like are so consistent and so omnipresent everywhere, and so consistent with your message. It is unbelievable to me. I can't, I, I can't imagine myself even doing that, even though I call myself a content creator. In comparison to you guys, I'm nothing. I'm just a guy, uh, you know, who talks to his friend Sam twice a week. So, like, the way you guys do it is crazy. That's a media business. That can be profitable on its own. People maybe advertise, subscribe. I think you have, like, a paid community or something like that that people pay for.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yep.
- SPShaan Puri
I think that's pretty lucrative, right? Like, that's a big moneymaker for you?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah. Well, a couple different things. One thing that's interesting of those three people you picked, what's the common denominator between all three of us? We were all in finance, which is categorically a fucking miserable industry in, to be in for the most part. And we all, I think all of us did private equity or investment banking, which means that we had crazy, crazy hours for a long time.
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
And so anytime, like, somebody talks to me, like, I always kind of giggle when the creators are like, "I'm burnt out," I'm like, "From filming TikToks?"
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
"Like, for a couple hours?"
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Like, I think we're fine.
- SPShaan Puri
That tweet fatigued you? [laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah. It's totally, we're gonna be okay. And so I think probably we're good at output because anything that can be, like, mechanized-
- SPShaan Puri
Right
- CSCodie Sanchez
... systematized, and replicated consistently, finance people are usually pretty good.
- 49:00 – 53:00
Codie's first million
- CSCodie Sanchez
kinda messing around with that, looking at, like, how The Daily Wire does it, for instance. Um, and then the second business we have is what was the family office, what's now Main Street Holding Company, and that is, like, the small businesses that I talk about. So we've owned everything from podcast production businesses to, um, graphic design agencies to laundromats to car washes to the Hvac.
- SPShaan Puri
And this is your own money? This is, uh, you've raised money? What happens?
- CSCodie Sanchez
My own money.
- SPShaan Puri
So it's your own money you're using to buy these, and so that's a portfolio. And you said there's three businesses. What's the third?
- CSCodie Sanchez
And the third is we have a venture capital fund, and then we also have, I guess, you know, alongside that, my own passive angel investments or whatever.
- SPShaan Puri
Okay.
- CSCodie Sanchez
And so those would be, like, Hone Health we did in the venture fund. Um, we invested in Andrew Wilkinson's media companies. That was just a personal investment that I did. It didn't go into the, to the VC company, so that's where, like, our minority investments go. Um-
- SPShaan Puri
Okay, and, and when did you get rich?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
Was it, uh, after all this? Were you rich before you started all this? What was the, like... Where was your kinda like, like... Okay, the podcast is called My First Million. When did you make your first million?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
Was it in the private equity, uh, investment banking world, or was it after that when you went on your own?
- CSCodie Sanchez
No, I made my first million when I was working for other people. I'm, like, the opposite of you. I'm not really as... I was... Risk scares me, actually. So, like, I could've never gone and done what, like, Shaan and Sam did, which is start a business like Sam did, have no money, uh, sleep on a couch like Hormozi, and then, like, hope that business turns into $160 million. That, like, scares me too much. I'm a wuss. And so I worked in corporate for a long, long, long time. I ran a bunch of the businesses. I became a partner in them. And so I made millions before I ever really ran my own thing by myself, and I was actually so scared to leave the big corporate, I don't know, canopy, that, uh, I bought businesses while I was still working for somebody else.
- SPShaan Puri
You say you bought businesses. These are, like, the, like, I bought a car wash, laundromat type of thing? Or what, what type of businesses are you buying?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah. Well, I bought... I, some back in the day that I bought but they didn't make me any money was, like, I bought a website. I bought a fashion styling marketplace. That was Threads Refined back in the day. Uh, I bought another one called Selling South. But the ones that started making me real money were the boring ones. Like, I tried the sexy things, websites, and I wasn't very good at them. And then it was, oh, wait, if I buy a laundromat, I r- it's, I have a hard time fucking this thing up. Like, I can make some money on that, and I can have somebody else run it. And if I pay that somebody else, and then we have three or four or five of them, that's enough money for them to make a good living and me to make a good living. And then maybe we could do that exact same thing in a bunch of different sectors. And I just, it... Back then when I was doing that, that was not cool. Now I feel like it's kinda cool. The holding company thing is cool on Twitter.
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Uh, in fact, I didn't tell anybody that I owned laundromats. One, I thought I might get fired because it's could be considered a conflict of interest, so I was concerned about that. And then, uh, secondly, I didn't think it was that cool, you know? At the time I was, like, running the Latin American investment business, and so we had a billion dollars in assets under management. I built the thing from zero for this company called First Trust, and everybody thought that job was really cool, including my parents. They were, like, super proud.
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
But I hated it, was going through a divorce, and was working, like, 70 hours a week and on red-eyes to Chile basically w- weekly. And so I bought the businesses to get the fuck out of corporate. And then when I finally replaced my income is when I thought, "Oh, well, now I'm gonna take a jump and become a partner at a private equity fund." And then finally I got the balls to go do it all by myself, but it took me a long time to get there.
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah. That's, everyone's got their, their path. I, I always joke, like, you hear these stories like, "Oh, Mark Cuban, when he was six years old, started a newspaper route, then a lemonade stand, and then hired his friends." I'm like, dude, I didn't even know the word business till I was 19, you know? You definitely don't need to... Y- you know, you, everybody's got a different starting point, uh, so that's for sure. So you, um, uh, let's talk about the laundromat thing. I've told this story on the pod before, but I was out at dinner once with this guy who,
- 53:00 – 59:00
Laundromats: The gateway drug of businesses
- SPShaan Puri
uh, was a CEO of a public company, and he was like, he, he was, like, fascinated. He's like, "You know, you know, people are, like, really busy. They don't use social media." So he's like, um, he's trying to relate to me, so he's like, "Oh, you do podcasts? What's, uh, what's the name?" And I, and he, I can see he doesn't even know where the podcast app is 'cause he's, like, does real work for a living. And so he's like, um, he's like, "I'll definitely subsc- Can you show me? How, how do you subscribe to a podcast? I've always wanted to know." And I'm like, wow, this guy's, like, you know, just getting going. And one of the things he said-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah
- SPShaan Puri
... he's like, he's like, "You know, I see these people on Instagram talking about laundromats," and he's like, "Are we all just fucking stupid and we should just be buying laundromats? Or are they stupid and they, they think laundromats are a great business?" He's like, "It's o- who's stupid?" He's like, "I'm worried I'm stupid and that I shouldn't be doing all this, like, stressful work running this, like, company with thousands of employees. Do I just need to go buy four laundromats and chill? Like, is that actually the answer?" And so he was, uh, laughing about it, and he's like, "It can't be that good." And I was like, dude, I honestly don't know what to say. I've never bought one of these boring businesses, don't intend to own a, a laundromat in Albuquerque or whatever. Like, that's not my, my jam. But it is for some people, and you obviously are an advocate for it. So this is your opportunity. So, so e- educate me. Drop some knowledge on me. Okay. What is this deal with buying... You can pick either... Actually s- do laundromat, not car wash, 'cause I, I actually know the car wash biz a little bit, but let's do laundromat.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah. Um, I call these gateway drug businesses. So basically, no, if you're a billionaire, you shouldn't go buy a laundromat. This is a terrible idea. The reason I talk about it is because I have a belief that I think a lot of people don't have, that almost anybody could have a business that they currently work as a job, let's say, and have some ownership in that business. And in fact, the world would be a lot better off if we all had a little bit of skin in the game. That's, like, my little hill that I wanna die on. And, um, and so when I first started talking about this, I was like, the thing is- I've been in finance. Like, I went through all the levels, and we want everybody else to think that we're smarter than them when we're in finance, and we're actually not. Because the worst part about running a laundromat is not reading the P&L. The worst part about running the laundromat is, like, the machine breaks. What do you do? There's a homeless person there. Like, how do you handle that? Somebody breaks into, uh, to your laundromat and breaks the glass door, and, like, a nor- any human could handle that. And so, um, I talk about laundromats, one, because that is one of the first businesses I bought, so it just was, you know, recency bias. And then two, because I think if you can't understand taking a coin, putting it in a machine, getting out clean clothes or dry clothes from it, and running that business model, you probably shouldn't run a business. That's like a very simplistic business model. Um, but this is why I've been obsessing on levels to the game. The problem with laundromats are they're a terrible business if you're really good at business. So, like, if you're good at business, the, the laundromat... I invested in one laundromat, it wasn't one that I owned complete, uh, control of, that did $3 million a year. That's the biggest laundromat that I've ever seen individually.
- SPShaan Puri
That's revenue? What is that?
- CSCodie Sanchez
That's revenue.
- SPShaan Puri
So $3 million a year. Okay, let's get out my calculator. So this, is, is it, like, one of these, like, jumbo, like, uh... Like, I've seen some of these laundromats that look like full-on shops or something like that. They're, like, huge.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah, it's a very big laundromat.
- SPShaan Puri
So it's doing, like, eight grand a day.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah, they do 15% margins, and the way they do them is actually through the wash and fold business, not the walk-in laundry business.
- SPShaan Puri
Okay, gotcha.
- CSCodie Sanchez
And so the real business where the higher level customers are and where you make more money is n- you know, single mom wants to put her bag of, of clothes outside of her door. You pick it up, you wash it, you drop it back off. It requires cars and logistics and some oversight. It's more complex. The average laundromat makes somewhere around 100 to $500,000 a year. Like, that's what a laundromat makes at 15 to 10 to 15% margins. Um, and there's, like, not that much you can do once you have a laundromat to get a lo- to get a laundromat that's doing 100,000 to 500,000. It's really hard.
- SPShaan Puri
Is location dependent?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
Or what, what's the bottleneck there?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah, location dependent, also just demographics of, of your, you know, segment. So if you're in a, a poorer neighborhood, wash and fold might not be as much of a driver-
- SPShaan Puri
Right
- CSCodie Sanchez
... for you. If you're in a higher end neighborhood, it could be, um, competition. Um-
- SPShaan Puri
And so those are making, you know, between, uh, 20 and $50,000 a year for the owner.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yep, that's right.
- SPShaan Puri
Um, so you got like, you know, l- you have to do multiple of these. Otherwise, if you own one, you're working the job of an owner, but making the wage of a, you know, minimum wage employee or something. So, so you wanna own multiple, that would be the, the play here?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Well, I think it depends. This is where I think business acquisition gets interesting. It's like, who are you and what do you want? Everybody always asks me, like, "What's the best sector to buy?" And I'm like, "That's a dumb question." The best sector to buy is, like, the one that's uniquely aligned to you.
- SPShaan Puri
So what, what was it for you? What was it for you?
- CSCodie Sanchez
The reason I bought the laundromat is 'cause I had an operator that already knew how to run laundromats and had found one that we could buy for very cheap.
- SPShaan Puri
Okay.
- CSCodie Sanchez
And I was like, "I don't like a lot of risk. I could, I could front 100K. Okay."
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Uh, buy this, and then if we run that and that works, let's get three to five of them and get rolling. But, like, a lot of people that I talk to, you know, maybe you're a teacher and you have six months off during the year, and then why wouldn't you own a little laundromat? And then I like to compare it versus houses or, like, short-term rentals. So, like, the average short-term rentals, we should check my numbers, but does somewhere like 120 and $160 in net income a month, and you put up $250,000 on average for one of those homes. So, like, compare a single family home for 250K versus a laundromat for 100K, and this one's making you 30, $50,000 a year, and, uh, I'm sorry, 20 to $40,000 a year, and this one's making you a couple thousand dollars a year, that's actually kind of a good... That's a better risk-reward trade-off. And so I think it just depends. Um, and then the other thing I think is you
- 59:00 – 1:08:00
Codie’s Best and Worst deals
- CSCodie Sanchez
start with one business, and not a lot of, not a lot of Americans are probably like your listeners. A lot of Americans, like, haven't run a big business before, wouldn't know what to do with a tech business. And so them starting with something pretty simple in their local community, and then they go, "Okay, I know how to run this. I made 20 to 50K on it. I didn't risk my house by buying too big of a business or starting too big of a business. Now I go and sell this to somebody else and do a bigger endeavor." At least that's how I think about it.
- SPShaan Puri
So your f- the first business you bought were, was a laundromat or was it something else?
- CSCodie Sanchez
My very first business was a website back in the day.
- SPShaan Puri
Okay, so you s- all right, so you bought the website stuff, then you went brick and mortar after that.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah, brick and mortar. Laundromat was my first brick and mortar business.
- SPShaan Puri
What'd you do after that?
- CSCodie Sanchez
After that, we bought a couple of them.
- SPShaan Puri
Okay.
- CSCodie Sanchez
So we bought multiple laundromats, uh, and then we kept buying laundromats.
- SPShaan Puri
How many laundromats did you buy?
- CSCodie Sanchez
In total, I probably owned, like, 25 or 30 laundromats over my career of laundromating.
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
Uh, but, but that first little portfolio was probably seven or eight.
- SPShaan Puri
Okay.
- CSCodie Sanchez
And I was working full-time at the time. I was at a company called First Trust then, mostly in Latin America, so I couldn't do too much with it back then.
- SPShaan Puri
Right. And give me the best deal you ever did and the worst deal you ever did.
- CSCodie Sanchez
The best... Let's see. The worst deal I did, um, uh, we had one business entirely go under. Um, so we invested in a business where we got lied to, stolen from, uh, that was a small business that supported other small businesses, uh, from a tax and accounting perspective. So they didn't do the taxes, but they did bookmark, uh, bookkeeping, and kind of funny that they would be the ones to do the stealing.
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
But that's the biggest issue in buying small businesses, and I think I lost... I probably lost a couple hundred K on that deal. And the biggest issue with buying small businesses is that you run out of cash because They either lied to you about the business that you bought and how much money it has in it, or they lied by omission. They didn't quite realize, you know, that they needed to share this with you, or they didn't actually track their finances very well.
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
And so you ended up buying something you didn't want. So that, that one I got stolen from. But a lot of times the small businesses do not actually have the finances that I, that I think they do.
- SPShaan Puri
And what about the best deal?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah, the best deal that I've ever did was probably, uh, mostly from the land acquisition. Um, so we basically bought, uh, a big plot of land that had an RV park on it. Um, also like a series of vending machines, also like a little area for people to, to camp and, you know, uh, go into nature, whatever. Um, and that business, the appreciation of the land ended up being what, what paid the most for it. So that business made us a few million bucks, which was kinda cool, and we definitely didn't put that in.
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Um, and maybe the other business that I think will be my best deal ever is a series of car washes we bought because ever since this company called Mr. Car Wash went public to the tune of billions of billions of dollars-
- SPShaan Puri
Multiples went up. [laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
Oh, fuck. I mean-
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
... we've gotten offers that are just wild on these, so I, I don't wanna, I wanna knock on wood that that one actually goes through. But we sold out of a bunch of our laundromats at great multiples, and I think we'll sell a lot of our car washes at, at really, really good multiples. But I don't always talk about my best deals because it's like I don't think you should get into these with an idea that you're gonna have some crazy exit. Like, you're gonna cash flow. That's the goal. You cash flow. And if you wanna have a crazy multiple exit, buying these tiny businesses, unless you scale them up in a big way, is probably not gonna be the way to do it.
- SPShaan Puri
And me and Ben were debating this the other day. We were talking about like, uh, what's a good, uh, on the finance side, what's a good north star goal? And we were saying, uh, we just thr- we threw out a bunch of ideas. Two of the ideas were, um, should we build up $10 million a year of annual cash flow as the goal out of this hold co? Or should we just try to build $100 million portfolio value that's realized, realized portfolio value in roughly, you know, the same amount of time? And of course, like, if you have $10 million of cash flow, you could probably sell it for $100 million. So it's not like these were totally different, but you would maybe buy different things 'cause if you're just trying to get to 100, you might not buy things... You could buy things that don't cash flow. You could just start a business if it doesn't-
- 1:08:00 – 1:10:00
Shaan's basic b*tch hobbies
- CSCodie Sanchez
I mean, it depends how you value it, but y- let's say it's, it's worth about 75 to $100 million in, in, um-
- SPShaan Puri
A lot of car washes
- CSCodie Sanchez
... portfolio value right now. [laughs] A lot of car washes.
- SPShaan Puri
That's a lot, a lot of soap, baby. [laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
[laughs] And then, so we have that, and that's cool. Um, really cool. Young Codie would be like, "That's fucking wild." Um, the next game we're gonna play is a really big single bet.
- SPShaan Puri
Okay.
- CSCodie Sanchez
And so, um, we'll have those two things we do.
- SPShaan Puri
And why? Why not just retire and be tradwife and pumpkins and live, laugh, love?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Dude, honestly, I bought those pumpkins, and I was painting them, and it brought me no joy whatsoever. [laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
It brought me zero joy. [laughs] And I remember I called my husband afterwards, and I was like, "I feel nothing, and I must be dead inside." And so, um-
- SPShaan Puri
You're like, "I have to buy this pumpkin company for this to have been worth it as a hobby." [laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
[laughs] Yeah, exactly. It's like so- something's wrong with me. Well, I also think... You, do you, like, do you have hobbies, Shaan?
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah, I got hobbies. I, I, I got hobbies. I love to play basketball, but my hobbies are-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Oh, yeah, you do
- SPShaan Puri
... they're things that, um, fall into, like, really specific categories. So not, I d- I don't have, uh, niche hobbies like some people are like, "Oh, I love, um, you know, studying duck calls, and I have all these little duck kazoos," or whatever the hell. Mine are not niche like that. They're very common things. I like playing poker. I like basketball. I like working out. I like, you know, like, I like shit that everybody likes, right? I'm like the basic bitch of, like, hobbies. However, um, I like to do them in a certain way that makes them more fun to me. So for example, uh, I got a lot of joy building a home gym and having a trainer who's like my boy who comes over, and we work out here, and then friends who we meet will come drop in for workouts with us. And so I get to, like, hang out with my friends when I do that. So I try to build a lifestyle around it. Or like basketball, instead of just going playing pickup basketball at 24 Hour Fitness, we do this thing called Camp MFM, where we rent a house, rent a gym, fly in, you know, a bunch of awesome founders or kind of like celebrity people who love to play basketball and an NBA trainer, and we spend the weekend pretending we're NBA players, right? Like, we cosplay. And so I will try to take the hobbies, basic
- 1:10:00 – 1:13:00
How to be more interesting
- SPShaan Puri
hobbies, but do them i- common hobbies in an uncommon way is what's done it for me, um, as far as being, being a fun thing to invest in.
- CSCodie Sanchez
I like that. Well, yeah, I need to... I need hobbies, basically. I have none. Uh, I like to work out. I like to hang out with, like, friends that, like, literally have the most boring hobbies imaginable. I really actually like working a lot, which is probably pretty sick. Um, but my husband is like Captain Hobby. He's so-
- SPShaan Puri
Right
- CSCodie Sanchez
... good. He's like a fucking black belt in jujitsu or a p- purple belt or something, and he's, you know, former Navy SEAL, so he's amazing at shooting. Him and Sam are always hobbying, and I'm not. And so-
- SPShaan Puri
I'm surprised Sam hangs out with him, 'cause Sam, uh, wants to always be able to eat and kill everybody in the room or whatever he always says.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Oh, yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
And, uh, y- your husband would e- eat him as an appetizer. He's, Sam is tapas for him. Like, this is nothing. So I'm surprised that Sam allows himself to be in the same room.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Sam does try to fight him a lot-
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
... which is, like, a very Samism, you know? Uh-
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah, like a son to his dad.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah. [laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
"Oh, let's fight," and then the dad's like, "Okay, sure, let's play wrestle."
- CSCodie Sanchez
[laughs] Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
So I'm gonna tell you one tip for hobbies.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah, tell me.
- SPShaan Puri
You wanna get hobbies? There's two things that will force any person like us to get hobbies. The first, hang out with people that are completely post-economic, so people who are literally wealthier than wealthy. Because when you go to dinner with them, they don't wanna talk about business deals. They're, like, completely, not that they're over it. They're still in the game of business. It's just not interesting to them. It's not what makes for a new conversation, or it's not, like, it's no longer part of the status game, 'cause they're al- they're also only with other people who are all very successful. And so the status game then becomes, "Oh, my Burning Man camp was like this," and, "Oh, my new hobby is to do this," and, "Oh, I'm doing this crazy health kick where I'm, like, you know, taking blood from my feet and putting it into my arms. It's crazy." It's like, the, you gotta do the crazy thing outside of business because you've already, like, hit the ceiling on c- business craziness. Like, uh, you know, the only one they wanna talk to about business craziness is, like, what is Elon doing or whatever. Like, they, that is genuinely, like, gets the pulse going for them on the business side, whereas most things don't. So that's one way, 'cause I remember sitting at many dinners and feeling completely generic, where the things I'm interested in, the things that my brain has been working on, to them are like, "Yeah, we know. Like, we've, you know, we've been doing that for 20 years now. Like, that, that's not something to talk about," right? Uh, it's like talking about the weather today.
- CSCodie Sanchez
You're like, "Did you see my Twitter ad for my newsletter launch?"
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah, exactly. [laughs] I'm like, "The, I got the CPC down," and they're like-
- CSCodie Sanchez
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
... "Wow," like, "I remember I used to care about those things."
- CSCodie Sanchez
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
Um, so, so that's one way to do it. [laughs] And the other is to go to a place where, um, like hang out with, like, uh, artists or Hollywood people. 'Cause when you're hanging with, like, actual artists for whom, like, the art is the goal and not the recognition from the g- from the art, um, all they wanna do, do, like, you s- tell them what you're making, and they're like, "Oh, that's cool." Like, "Do you think that's cool?" And you're like, "No, this is fucking cringe." And they're like, "So why are you doing it?" And you're like, "'Cause
- 1:13:00 – 1:17:00
American Enterprise Institute and Arthur Brooks
- SPShaan Puri
it leads to outcomes." And then they're like, "Oh, [laughs] you know," like, you're like a- It's like you value things so differently than an actual artist. So two ways if you wanna like r- round yourself out is, uh, immerse yourself there and then the embarrassment will fuel you to find something that is, uh, non, um, it's not about the Ebonaut anymore.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Non-
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah
- CSCodie Sanchez
... a non-work hobby.
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yet the, the thing that I have found about that is that I don't actually care that much what people think. And I find that hanging out with a lot of really, really rich people, like you and I both have, I think, a bunch of mutual friends that are super rich, I'm like, "I don't care about your polyamory orgy at Burning Man."
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
Like, good for you, dude. I'm so excited that you were such a nerd in high school, that now-
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
... we're compensating for it with lots of free sex. I think you should go wild. But, uh, I don't think it's that fucking cool, actually. So maybe I do maybe have one hobby, which is that I, um, I really find, uh, like, the political movements in the country interesting. Not like Republican versus Democrat, but maybe that's my, that's my toxic trait hobby.
- SPShaan Puri
That's your Roman Empire?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah, yeah. [laughs] Like, I think we're part of this think tank called AEI, and those people fascinate me. Like, have you ever been around big thinkers that, like... You know, like Arthur Brooks. Do you know who that is? You guys should get him on here.
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah. Who is that?
- CSCodie Sanchez
I wonder if he'd come. I-
- SPShaan Puri
None of the words you just said in the last minute-
- CSCodie Sanchez
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
... even mean anything to me. You said, "Political movements that are not Democrat or Republican." I'm like, "What the hell is she talking about then?" The second thing you said is, "I'm part of a think tank." Uh, "A what, a what tank?" And then you said, "AEI." I'm like, "That's a wrestling league, I think."
- CSCodie Sanchez
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
And then you just mentioned Arthur Brooks, who I think might own the Atlanta Falcons, but I'm pretty sure that's not him. So can you go in reverse order?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
What are political parties, not the Democrats or Republicans?
- CSCodie Sanchez
So American Enterprise Institute has this one idea, which is that, uh, all ideas should be in a competition. There should be a competition for the best ideas, and the best ideas should win in order to determine how we rule our lives, what are our regulations. And so they're bipartisan. There's Democrats and Republicans in it. And, um, and I'm part of a, a group that donates every year, and we go to a couple events for them. And so that might be a hobby of mine, I suppose. I mean, like-
- SPShaan Puri
So they'll debate something like UBI or something? Is that what you mean? Like, is that the, the idea?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
Like...
- CSCodie Sanchez
Like, they'll have Dick Cheney and, um, Michelle Obama on a stage together, and they'll be like, "Ready, go." You know? And they'll kinda compete their ideas. And, and it's closed doors, and you can't video it, um, and you can't talk about the specific things that were talked about inside of there, so it allows these politicians to be perhaps more, uh, realistic than they would be on the news sites. So I, I find that to be really interesting.
- SPShaan Puri
That's kinda cool.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah. I think you guys would like it. And then, um, this guy, Arthur Brooks, who would be incredible, he used to run AEI and was fascinating because he actually was, like, good friends with the Dalai Lama, which that's, that's impressive, but then simultaneously, uh, was able to pull together more funding. Like, I think he raised tens and tens or hundreds of millions of dollars for AEI and really changed regulation on both the Democrat and Republican sides. And he is... If you can imagine what this is like, like, you go to this event. All the... Most of the leaders of the free world are there. You fly into a private airport and, um, in Sea Island, and you go to this private hotel. There's all these securities. It's like a little mini UN. And the guy who runs the think tank is talking to a lot of... Since it's free markets and competition of ideas, there's a lot of conservatives there. And, uh, and he gets in front of the biggest conservative donors in the world and starts to talk to them about love and why love [laughs] is the most important thing in the world. Which, for conservatives, is, like, not normalized at all.
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
That, that... Nobody wants to talk about that. They wanna talk about how all the Democrats are crazy. And so, um, I really have a lot of respect for him. He has, like, a bestselling book with Oprah now and, uh, and a documentary out about capitalism. And so-
- 1:17:00 – 1:20:00
Unpopular political opinion: Govern yourself
- SPShaan Puri
Uh, okay, this is interesting. And so you go to these, like, private, um, private events. How much... What's the, what's the absolute minimum one has to donate in order to be invited to the private thingy?
- CSCodie Sanchez
I think it's 25 or 50K.
- SPShaan Puri
Okay. All right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Um, but you go through a screening process to, to come in to-
- SPShaan Puri
Uh, they're, they're gonna realize I don't, I don't know anything and don't give a shit about anything. Okay. [laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
No, I think they'd probably like that.
- SPShaan Puri
They're gonna out me. [laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
They did. I remember the first time I went, they're like, "You do what where?" Like, they, they thought this whole internet... 'Cause I've only been doing it for, like, probably three years. Uh, and so I told them that I, I did little... I wrote little blogs on the internet, and they were like, "Well, that's... Huh. Cool."
- SPShaan Puri
It used to be my secret that I, like, don't care, don't vote, don't watch the news, uh, ever. Like, not as, like, a general thing. Like, I just don't. And, um-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yep
- SPShaan Puri
... and I used to just not say it, because when I did, people would look at me like, "Oh, so you're just, like..." It's some combination of you're dumb or selfish, and they're like, "You're some combination of dumb and selfish. I don't really understand." And I never really knew how to put it into words, um, 'cause I was like, "I don't know. I'm just focused... Yeah, I'm on... I focus on myself, but not in a way that's selfish. I'm not trying to take anything from anyone. I just put my attention on the things in my life." And, um, then somebody said this to me. They go, um, they go, "Yeah, you're, you're..." An extreme in any one position, like, you know, just being all-consuming, watching the news 24/7 or never, ever caring or paying attention to the news, neither one of them's probably very good. But, um, to- towards your end of the spectrum, they go, "You know, I think, actually, the world would be a better place, instead of worrying about the government, learning how to govern yourself." And, um-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yes
- SPShaan Puri
... and I really took that. That, like, uh, resonated with me, 'cause I was like, "Oh, that's exactly it." Uh, I realized I can't even fully govern myself, whether it's, uh, you know, I shouldn't eat that and I go eat that, or I should wake up early and I sleep in, or, um, you know, I wanna text my friends and stay in touch, but I forget about them and become consumed with what's going on in my life. I've yet to even govern myself. You... Well, who in... What am I worried about what's going on 3,000 miles away and with other people I can't control a- at all, let alone myself, who I can? And so that was the first time I heard something that made me feel good about, uh, that, where I, I previously just felt- A little embarrassed, but not to the point where I was gonna change my behavior, 'cause I was like, "I know intuitively this is right. I just have no words to justify it." [laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
Well, I always liked that... I think it was Jordan Peterson that said, um, "Before you clean up the world, clean up your room." [laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
And so I think there is actually a true component to, man, if we actually all just took care of our own things, and our own things could be our family, our friends, our community, life would probably be a little bit better.
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
So, um-
- SPShaan Puri
This was also-
- CSCodie Sanchez
I, I support you in your purple, non-blue, non-red nature, Shaan.
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, uh, somebody also said this about relationships. They go, um, uh, "The wrong way to think about relationships is they'll take care of... Uh, y- I'll take care of you and you take care of me," and then you're constantly feeling like you've lacked some care from the other side. Instead, it's, "I'll take care of me for you, and you take care of you for me." Um-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Ooh
- SPShaan Puri
... and I think that's just a much
- 1:20:00 – 1:24:00
Playbook: Creating the Codie Sanchez brand
- SPShaan Puri
better mental model for how to be in a relationship, is, uh, I will be the best... I'm gonna become the best person I can be for you. And, uh, you do... If you do the same, then we're both gonna end up in great shape, and we both are focusing on the only thing we can control, which is ourselves.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Well, also, I mean, why you gotta tell other people how to live? That's my biggest complaint. I'm like, "You do you, and I'll do me."
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
And even if you don't like it, I'm still gonna do that anyway. So, uh, you know, thank God for freedom in that way.
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs] Okay, I wanna ask you about content. So you have built, um, a big content brand across newsletters, social media, TikTok, YouTube. You're, you're everywhere. Um, give me the kind of... Can you do a rant on, like, what is your approach? Like, you were Codie Sanchez, but at some point you created Codie Sanchez the brand, and, um, can you explain to me what went into that? Um, because I think most people don't know what goes into that.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
I think a lot of people try to take an aw, shucks mentality and say, "I didn't really-
- CSCodie Sanchez
I hate that
- SPShaan Puri
... I didn't think too much. I just... It just all sort of happened organically." And anybody out there who would like to do the same is like, "Great, so I guess I'll just hope it all just happens." Um, whereas I, I think that most people do have some thought that they put into things, and a strategy maybe that they put into things, or, um, took a different approach than what they saw others were doing, and it paid off. I'd love to hear your version of that.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Totally. One, I hate when people do that. I have never met somebody that after you dig in a little bit, didn't systematically try for the thing that they have created-
- SPShaan Puri
Right
- CSCodie Sanchez
... in any aspect of life. Like, I don't fucking buy it. Um, so that's one of my big pet peeves. Um, for me, basically what happened is, I think I'm the opposite of a lot of people that are public now. So I raised a bunch of money before for my funds and built these big fund families, right? Where we invested a lot, hundreds of millions, raised billions of dollars over my career, not just for me, when I was with other companies. And what I kinda realized is that's a little bit like, um, giving a man a fish as opposed to teaching a man to fish. And I was, I was with m- a CEO of a company that I worked for back in the day, and I was starting to do a little stuff online. This is, like, year... like six or seven years ago. And I remember he took me on a walk on the beach at the Monarch in, uh, or the Montage of the Monarch in, um, California. And he was like, "The thing is, Codie, um, we get rich quietly here. Like, we don't build the I, we build the me," all those, you know, things. And at the time, I didn't really like that answer, and in, in my self-righteousness, I was like, "Well, he doesn't get it, and the Internet's gonna be so powerful, and, and steak dinners and strippers," which is how a lot of people in finance raise money, "doesn't work and isn't gonna work in the future, and so we should actually build a media presence." But I realized quickly, like, he had built a multi-billion dollar business. It was his. I was playing with his chips, so he had every right to say, "Hey, n-no, not on my dime." And so at that point, I kinda realized that I think what I actually like doing is I like watching other people grow and build based on the ideas I share with them. Like, my little ego likes when somebody tells me that one of the things that I did works for them, and I feel like that's, like, kind of a cool legacy. Um, makes me happier. And so I started realizing that originally just by speaking with some nonprofits we worked with. I would go and speak, and I was like, "Oh, I kinda feel good." I feel better doing that than when I close a big transaction, actually. And so I started doing that more and more. And then I was like, "Huh. Uh, I think we should scale this," 'cause I just think I have that sickness in my brain that anything I do a little bit, I wanna do giant. Probably not that dissimilar with you in basketball. You're like, "I could go play a pickup game, or I could invite MrBeast and also LeBron." You're like, [laughs] "Well, let's do option two." And so, um, so I was like, I just started writing a newsletter for a while and didn't realize it was a business. And then the first thing I did that I would tell anybody to do if you wanna go and build a content machine is you should steal people who have already built the thing. It seems so obvious,
- 1:24:00 – 1:27:00
Content flywheel for business acquisition
- CSCodie Sanchez
but, uh, nobody does it. Everybody tries to do things by themselves. And because I had built a lot of businesses by now, I was like, "Oh, this is just a normal business." We need a head of ops. We need a head of... I would've called it marketing back in the day, but now we call it a head of content. You know, we need a head of finance to figure out how much we should budget and how much we should put into all of this stuff. And then we also, uh, probably need a bunch of chiefs under, or a bunch of Indians underneath the chiefs. And so I basically hired those first three things. I always hire first at the top, and then I do a sliding scale down. Um, and after I had hired those three people, because I was funding it all myself from what I had built before, then I started to go sector sp- or niche specific. So, like, hire one person for TikTok, hire one person for Twitter, hire one person for Instagram. And it doesn't mean that they would write it all, and they're ghost writing. I would just say, "I'm stressed about these three platforms. I'm gonna remove my stress from me onto you, and so you shall now stress all day about TikTok, and Twitter, and Instagram, and a newsletter, and I will not. I'm gonna stress on this portfolio of businesses which nobody else can run." And so that's how I started.
- SPShaan Puri
And do you, um- Do you do one for the other? Do they feed each other? Or what's the, what's the plan with the content? Like, how does the content fit with the portfolio of businesses? What's the p- what, why do you do both? Why not just do one?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah. No, it's the be- I mean, I think maybe you've talked about this, but the flywheel of content is the most powerful thing I've ever seen. I mean, Naval talked about it with his... He, I think he talked about three levels of leverage, which was, you know, uh, capital, or I'm sorry, people, capital, and then code. And then I think the current one is audience, and audience is the only permissionless version. All those other ones you have to have banks, you had to have employees say yes, you had to actually understand code. Um, but audience is, is so your favorite word, um, democratized.
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
Anybody can, uh, anybody can-
- SPShaan Puri
Put a quarter in the swear jar before you leave.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah, exactly. Anybody can, can do it. And so I was like, well, this is fascinating. Um, if I could get... Like for instance, yesterday in one of our YouTube videos, we put a, a lead magnet to the newsletter, and we got like 2,500 newsletter signups. And let's say the newsletter signup on average costs us one to two bucks, well, that was, you know, that's $5,000 I could have done through PPC or through organic. I could just get it-
- SPShaan Puri
Right
- CSCodie Sanchez
... from audience.
- SPShaan Puri
Content, yeah.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah. And so, um, they all influence one another. But how I originally thought about it is I'm gonna talk about content about buying businesses. Because I talk about buying businesses, what's gonna happen? A bunch of people are gonna wanna sell me their business. So now I'm gonna buy more businesses that they wanna sell, and I'm gonna buy them at better prices and faster than anybody else because they feel like they already know me and they trust me.
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
And so I'm almost indexing on trust. I'm gonna tell them exactly how I value it, I'm gonna tell them exactly how I buy, and then they're gonna sell me their business. And then once they sell me their business, I'm going to build that business through
- 1:27:00 – 1:44:02
Codie addresses her critics
- CSCodie Sanchez
my audience, so I'm gonna funnel more of the audience into said business. And then finally, when I go to exit the business, I'm gonna have a community of buyers that wanna buy this business. And then I'm gonna do it again and again and again. And it sort of ended up working out like that. I would say most often now it's that I get referrals to businesses that I wanna buy. I, I... it's not so much cold outreach. Um, so maybe it was slightly off from what I thought the thesis was gonna be.
- SPShaan Puri
Right. Right. And okay, so I wanna l- give you a chance to address what I view as good criticism. So what's good criticism? Good criticism is, uh, so bad criticism is this person's full of shit. Good criticism is, um, uh, it's h- it's not all perfect [laughs] , right? It's like the, that's like a good version of criticism, uh, meaning you're in a good position if somebody says that. So for example, I wanna give you a chance to, uh, do, t- to answer this in two ways. The first is every criticism I believe has a kernel of truth. When I go read the YouTube comments and somebody says, uh, blah, blah, blah about me, it might be mean, it might have been rude, might have been uncalled for, but it's usually not completely baseless. There's some kernel of truth in it. And the same thing on the good side. If somebody compliments me, it's usually not as good as they say, but there's a kernel of truth, and that's what led to that, that sentiment. So here are some of the, the p- things that people would say about you. Codie Sanchez, uh, her real business is in creating content, getting you to pay her to teach you how to buy a business, not in the businesses she's bought herself. Um, w- in what way would that be true, and in what way would that be false?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah. Um, I think, one, I, I think you're right. One of our mottos is question everything, so I don't think there's anything wrong with, with questioning any of that. Um, we make more money categorically from the businesses we own than from the community that we own, for instance. So like numerically, categorically, that's just the fact. Now, would I be upset if all of a sudden we're doing 25, 50, $100 million in a community and, and this, my idea of an M&A for MB- like a, an MBA M&A? If I could actually create that and I could supplant what we're getting in institutions and education systems, I'd be fucking thrilled.
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
So the second that I make way more money with communities and courses, I will be shouting it at a... Yes, like, we built the best fucking thing ever. We're doing tens and tens of millions of dollars, and you're welcome. Like, happy. Um, the second, like what would be true about that is, yeah, we're really good at this. Like, it is a big business. It does millions of dollars a year. Uh, I think we have really quickly supplanted anybody in the industry. Like, we are the name if you wanna go learn how to buy a business. Soon, we will be the name if you wanna learn how to sell a business, and my goal is we will also be the name if you want to learn how to build a business. So we will own the entire ecosystem. I'm in talks right now with University of Texas and University of Austin, which is Jill Lonsdale's, uh, company, to do, uh, a program with them where we can push back on what I think is awful education that's taught at most institutions.
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
And instead of telling you what to think and a bunch of political nonsense, we're just gonna teach you really smart financial tactics that you can apply whichever way you want. And so, um, it does like... I'm sure it's the same with you. What bothers me when people talk about me online is if I feel like there is a kernel of truth or we fuck up. Like, one time we did this tweet thread, ugh, and it was a seven instead of a two for the number of years that I was at Goldman, which is like, you can see it on my, uh, form, U4 and my, uh, LinkedIn, you can see how long I was at Goldman. And I had all these people be like, "I knew you were just a fucking secretary and you were only there for, you know, two years, not seven."
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- CSCodie Sanchez
And that one actually bothered me a little bit because I was like, "We were wrong, and so, fuck, that's, that's why."
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah, but that's a typo. Who cares? Um-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah, I guess so
- SPShaan Puri
... you know, like you're wrong, but like, don't beat yourself up over that, right? Like, that's nothing.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
Um-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah, that's true.
- SPShaan Puri
Another way to think about, or another, like, I guess thing to, to react to, um, so we get less criticism. I was, I was wondering this. I was like, "Why do we get less criticism?" [laughs] So I was worried. I was like, "Are we just less-" ... popular or less good than these other people. And what I realized is actually, no, there's one difference, which is when you do a podcast, um, podcasts, because they're long form, it sort of naturally filters a bunch of people out. Second, it gives you a chance to breathe and be yourself, and people-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah
- SPShaan Puri
... tend to, once they get to know you and understand you, they tend to not, uh, not feel the same way about you, uh, not, not have, like, that sort of reactionary, uh, takeaway against you. Uh-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah
- SPShaan Puri
... the third is that you're just not everywhere, and the vibe is I'm talking to my buddy Sam. You're here listening as a fly on the wall versus you go on Instagram or TikTok and you're staring down the barrel looking at the camera saying, "You should do this," all of a sudden you're a business guru. All of a sudden you're telling me what to do. All of a sudden, guard... the walls go up, uh, and literally just because of the way you're... which way we're pointing. When it's me talking to my co-host, it's very different than somebody who's, picks up their phone and says, [swallows] , uh, you know, "I'm so great and here's what I do, and you should do the same." So, uh, that's what I realized is actually the way that the reaction gets really big. Now, I wonder how you th- think about, like, distancing yourself, or do you just not care about, like, the whole, like, business guru, kinda like Grant Cardone, Tai Lopez. Like, there's, like, this whole thing that I personally don't wanna necessarily be associated with.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
I don't necessarily think that they're bad in any way, I just don't wanna be bucketed in with that group. Um, and I can see how there's, like, a tension between the more you come out and talk about business and how to make it, the more you can be bucketed as business guru. How do you think about that? Do you, do you think you do fall into that trap, or how do you avoid that?
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah. Um, one, I think as, I think I'm a big ethical and moral compass type person, so, like, if I feel like I'm doing something wrong, uh, that's gonna bother me a lot more than what other people think about me, and so that, that doesn't bother me too much. I also think, and I would be curious your take, like, I wanna do a math model on this. I... So much of what we are told in today's society, in my opinion, is the opposite. It's like it's clown world. It's we're told this one thing, and it actually makes no sense. For instance, if I went out right now, I've never, ever raised money for any of the businesses that I invest in from my audience. Ever. Not once. Not once have I asked for a dollar for that. Now, we have a venture c- fund that's tiny that I say do not invest in if you don't wanna lose money. 'Cause this is, like, a very small, it's a $10 million fund, and it's, like, who knows? Who knows if Venture works? Um [swallows] , and I think that there's a legitimacy that comes with asking people for money to invest in your funds as opposed to teaching them how to do the thing, which in my mind actually makes no sense.
- SPShaan Puri
Okay.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Because if I went and raised another billion-dollar fund family like I did, I'm going to make so much more money than I ever will teaching people how to do things online. So much more money. But then they don't actually learn. So I think I have, like, a, I have, like, a chip on my shoulder about it, that I wanna push back on it, and I also think, man, young Codie would've really liked to learn this earlier, and wouldn't it be nice if somebody would've actually showed me their homework back in the day? Like, I would've liked that, actually.
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- CSCodie Sanchez
Um, so I think, I think that's how I, I remedied it. Now, I hate comparisons to Grant Cardone or Tai Lopez because, uh, I'm not talking about those two 'cause I don't know them individually, but, you know, I looked at some of the fundraising docs on Grant Cardone's stuff and I don't think it's that great for retail investors. I think it's pretty one-sided. And I think Tai Lopez is very, like, Ferraris, women, you know, get rich quick stuff, and ours is sort of the opposite. It's like, "This is gonna be hard, it'll take longer than you think, it'll be harder than you think, and maybe it'll be worth it if you actually keep going past the point in which it's comfortable." Um, but yeah. I think at some point you just have to give up what people think about you on the internet one way or the other, 'cause there's always gonna be... You know, if you think about it also, Shaan, like, so if we have 100 million views a month or 5 million followers, like, 1%'s gonna be fucking nuts. For sure. Just, like, categorically. And so anytime something happens, I go, "Well, that's the 1%." Unless we're doing something wrong, and then I go, "Well, we, we did, that was a typo. That's our bad."
- SPShaan Puri
Right. Well, I'm hoping the people who listen to this, uh, you know, I, I guess, like, I believe that y- like you just said, you, the mo- you know, the most important opinion is the one you have of yourself. You know, the reputation with yourself is the one that matters. Uh, I also believe that people should come to their own opinions once they have the opportunity to hear you speak, which is why I asked some of these questions to you, 'cause I wanted to, I wanted to know the, y- I wanted to hear how you would answer them myself, but I also know that for most people, they're not really gonna get to hear you talk on this, um, really anywhere, so, uh, as far as I, as far as I've seen. So I hope that people, you know, come to whatever opinions they want o- on that stuff. Uh, that's, that's on them at that point. I think that the ideas you shared at the beginning and the model that you've created here around buying boring businesses is fascinating to me. Um, I am almost jealous that I don't wanna buy a boring business. I'm like, oh, well, the, you know, like, what, what's wrong with the chip in my brain that wants to buy exciting businesses? [laughs] Like, I only want to buy exciting businesses, and I think that is probably harder, higher degree of difficulty. Um-
- CSCodie Sanchez
Yeah
- SPShaan Puri
... but, you know, you, you, you choose, you get to choose the game you play. That's the, that's the game I wanna play. Um-
Episode duration: 1:44:02
In the uListen app, the transcript lights up word by word as you listen. Get uListen
Transcript of episode nyJ8ZqfoNnY
