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Cody Ko On Building A YouTube Empire, Partying With Elon & Stand-Up Comedy (#503)

Episode 503: Shaan Puri sits down with Cody Ko to talk about building the viral app I’d Cap That, his +$1M YouTube empire & partying with Elon Musk.

Shaan PurihostCody Koguest

Oct 3, 202358mWatch on YouTube

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Transcript

70 min read · 14,009 words

0:00 – 2:00
Intro
1. SPSpeaker
  What three creators do you see that you think could become billionaires? He's like, "MrBeast, Dude Perfect," or something like that, and then he said you.
2. SPShaan Puri
  No way.
3. SPSpeaker
  Cody Ko. Cody Ko. Cody Ko. Cody Ko. Ko. Cody is popping off.
4. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
5. SPSpeaker
  The algorithm has shined upon him. Cody is one of the biggest YouTubers on the platform. How did you get good-
6. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah
7. SPSpeaker
  ... at doing what you do?
8. SPShaan Puri
  If you go and listen to my first episode of my podcast, it was complete garbage.
9. SPSpeaker
  Right.
10. SPShaan Puri
  If I'm thinking about, like, what makes a good podcast, or what makes a good YouTube video, or what makes a good song, the number one thing you can do is-
11. SPSpeaker
  How much are you thinking about, like, the business side of, of what you do?
12. SPShaan Puri
  About being a billionaire? [laughs]
13. SPSpeaker
  No, not... [laughs]
14. SPShaan Puri
  When I was younger, it was, like, literally just about the creative. But now that I'm getting older, it's like I want the business to succeed. And then he looks at his phone, and he's like, "Elon's been texting me," and then he showed us his phone, and it was, like, Elon Musk, who was like, "Come over."
15. SPSpeaker
  No. [laughs]
16. SPShaan Puri
  And he was like, "Should we go over to his house?" Yeah, I mean, you can't s- really say no to that. And so we got in cars and drove to his house. We got to his house, and him and Grimes are, like, standing on the driveway with lanterns. Like, "Welcome to-
17. SPSpeaker
  Why? [laughs]
18. SPShaan Puri
  ... my house."
19. SPSpeaker
  That's insane. What's he like?
20. SPShaan Puri
  Like, it was one of those things where we-
21. SPSpeaker
  By the way, I lis- I listen... This is, like, one of my favorite podcasts.
22. SPShaan Puri
  Oh, hell yeah.
23. SPSpeaker
  So it's an honor to be on it.
24. SPShaan Puri
  Right.
25. SPSpeaker
  'Cause I... It's one of two that I listen to.
26. SPShaan Puri
  That's nice.
27. SPSpeaker
  And so I switch between you guys and- Not even sponsored. That was amazing. Yeah.
28. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
29. SPSpeaker
  No, I, I'm serious. So, like, when you hit me up- What's the other? ... I was like, "Let's go." I mean, it's All In. [laughs]
30. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah.
2:00 – 9:00
I’d Cap That hits #1 in the App Store
1. SPSpeaker
  of one.
2. SPShaan Puri
  Right. [laughs]
3. SPSpeaker
  'Cause, like, it's like that's your... That's up to you.
4. SPShaan Puri
  Right. I gotta drive. Yeah.
5. SPSpeaker
  You... Yeah, the pressure's on you.
6. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
7. SPSpeaker
  I can just sit here and answer questions, you know?
8. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah. Good. Okay. Well, that's what we're gonna do. But the f- the, actually the interesting thing is you actually started as a kinda nerdy tech guy, too.
9. SPSpeaker
  I did, yeah.
10. SPShaan Puri
  You were, uh, I think, like, a iOS dev.
11. SPSpeaker
  Yep.
12. SPShaan Puri
  And let's start there. So the origin story is you, uh, you go to Duke, and you, [laughs] you make a viral app at one point. I don't know if we were at school or right after school, but-
13. SPSpeaker
  It was, I, it was during college.
14. SPShaan Puri
  During college.
15. SPSpeaker
  I was, uh-
16. SPShaan Puri
  What did it actually do? So I know it was called l- Cap That or I Cap That.
17. SPSpeaker
  I'd Cap That.
18. SPShaan Puri
  I'd Cap That.
19. SPSpeaker
  Yeah.
20. SPShaan Puri
  What... What was the app?
21. SPSpeaker
  A very funny name, by the way.
22. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah. [laughs]
23. SPSpeaker
  [laughs] Um, so it was like I was a senior in college, and, uh, I was on the diving team all four years, so I, like, didn't have... Like, in the summers and stuff, I was just training, and so I never did an internship. I didn't have any resume by the time I was a senior. And all these, all my, like, peers were doing internships, and they had jobs lined up for as soon as they graduated.
24. SPShaan Puri
  Right.
25. SPSpeaker
  I didn't. I had nothing. And that kinda scared me, because I'm Canadian, and I wanted to stay in the States. So I needed a visa, which means I needed a job, and I also just, like, needed money and stuff for when I graduated.
26. SPShaan Puri
  Right.
27. SPSpeaker
  I was like, "What the fuck am I gonna do?" So I was studying computer science at that time, and, uh, they didn't have an iOS class, but I was like... I was obsessed with my phone, obviously, and I was like, "I really wanna know how to make an app." So I just bought a book, taught myself, and then, like, you know, the way you really teach yourself something is, you're sure you can, like, read and watch YouTube videos, but, like, it's by, you know, thinking of a project and then trying to make it come to life.
28. SPShaan Puri
  Right.
29. SPSpeaker
  So that was my project. There was one that did something similar, but it was a paid app, and I was like, "Oh, this is a perfect opportunity," 'cause it's not a hard idea.
30. SPShaan Puri
  And what was the idea?
9:00 – 13:00
App developer to content creator
1. CKCody Ko
  I actually, that was more... Everything since then has been more linear.
2. SPShaan Puri
  Really?
3. CKCody Ko
  Yeah. Like I've never been... You know, you see create- creators all the time that blow up like out of nowhere. Like, you know, this year it was like Alex Earl or something like that.
4. SPShaan Puri
  Sure.
5. CKCody Ko
  Or, um, who else? Like the octopus, Octopussy kid. Do you know him?
6. SPShaan Puri
  No.
7. CKCody Ko
  Anyways, it happens, it seems like it happens-
8. SPShaan Puri
  Sounds promising though. He sounds like a-
9. CKCody Ko
  Yeah, yeah. No, he's really funny
10. SPShaan Puri
  ... sounds like a gem. [laughs]
11. CKCody Ko
  Um, he's really funny. But for me it was always like I kind of had to grind my way to having an audience-
12. SPShaan Puri
  Right
13. CKCody Ko
  ... by literally downloading Vine, making videos every single day.
14. SPShaan Puri
  How early were you to Vine?
15. CKCody Ko
  I was, I was actually pretty late, I would say. Like, the whole first like class of f- you know, like famous Viners had already been a thing, like King Bach-
16. SPShaan Puri
  Right
17. CKCody Ko
  ... Brittany Furlan. They were already like people-
18. SPShaan Puri
  Right
19. CKCody Ko
  ... that everyone recognized. So when I downloaded it, I was just like, I didn't download it with the intention of like being somebody or, you know, generating an audience or anything like that. I just was, I was working on a social media app for this company, and it was like Snapchat for video basically, and then Snapchat for video came out. [laughs]
20. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah, Snapchat added video.
21. CKCody Ko
  We were like, "Damn it."
22. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
23. CKCody Ko
  And so basically I was like just keeping tabs on all the new ones that were coming out, and Vine came out, so I downloaded it, started playing around with it. And I lived alone in Palo Alto, which as a 21-year-old is the most like boring life imaginable.
24. SPShaan Puri
  Right.
25. CKCody Ko
  So I would just start making videos. I would get home from work and I'd just all of a sudden like started feeling... Like, I was like flexing my creative muscle, and hadn't done that in a long time.
26. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah.
27. CKCody Ko
  It felt good. So every day I would just make more videos. And then, yeah, it was like getting involved in the community, you know, like making online friends with the other people that were kind of getting some traction. And then I started showing up on the popular page and people started recognizing my face, and I just kept doing it. Like, just was genuinely like, didn't try to make it a job, I just was like, programming is my job, this is my hobby, and I'm gonna treat it like an art-
28. SPShaan Puri
  Right
29. CKCody Ko
  ... sort of. And that, that sort of paid off, 'cause like people, I think people liked the sincerity behind it.
30. SPShaan Puri
  And you, what do you mean by that? So like for the people that were... Let's c- compare. The people that were trying really hard to like become famous on Vine and what you were doing, what do you think was different to the outsider?
13:00 – 17:00
1M views overnight
1. CKCody Ko
  instead." [laughs]
2. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs] You want more money?
3. CKCody Ko
  How about that? Yeah, yeah, exactly.
4. SPShaan Puri
  How about no platform?
5. CKCody Ko
  And they're like, "Oh, okay."
6. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs] Um, so you, okay, so you go through that. You, uh, you guys have had a... You've been doing content on y- like podcast YouTube for like over 10 years probably almost, right?
7. CKCody Ko
  Yeah, almost.
8. SPShaan Puri
  What, and you said y- you know, it was kinda linear. So if I said like what was kind of breakout for you, what were the, what were like the breakout moments or like things you remember where like, "Oh, shit, things just got different for me. Like I, something is different. I don't know exactly how, how big this is, but like something changed"?
9. CKCody Ko
  I remember, I remember the first time that I hit a million views overnight. It was like a, it was a That's Cringe video, which was like one of now like-
10. SPShaan Puri
  It's like your format
11. CKCody Ko
  ... one of the most viewed series on my channel. And, uh, I remember like we did a couple, and they seemed to be working. People seemed to be into them. But it wasn't like apparent how much more people liked them than, you know, the other stuff that I was doing. And then we posted like the third or fourth one, and I remember waking up to a million views, and I was like, "Oh my God, that is..." That was unfathomable for me, you know, f- even five months ago.
12. SPShaan Puri
  Right. [laughs]
13. CKCody Ko
  Like those numbers just like don't even make sense to me. And, uh, so that was one pretty distinctive moment. Another one was when we, when then me and Noel went on tour for the first time and the second time and all the times after that, and the tickets would just like sell out. And I was like, I... See, that was a moment where I was like, "I can't believe that this is now converting into real-world sales-
14. SPShaan Puri
  Right
15. CKCody Ko
  ... where people wanna come to a venue and see us in person." That felt really cool. That's always like a weirdly sobering thing.
16. SPShaan Puri
  What do you guys do-
17. CKCody Ko
  Or job- sécuring
18. SPShaan Puri
  ... when you do that? 'Cause we did, uh, we've done, I think we did two live shows this year. Um, both times they like, you know, people showed up, which was like shocking in the moment and afterwards. Uh, but also we were like, "What the f- what do they want? Like what are we supposed to do? Podcast, like, you want us to just do the podcast in front of you while you sit here?" Like-
19. CKCody Ko
  Yeah, I know
20. SPShaan Puri
  ... that's boring, I think.
21. CKCody Ko
  Yeah.
22. SPShaan Puri
  Um, and we try to do a bunch of stuff. Uh, I personally hate it. I hate, uh, I'm like I don't really wanna do that again because like, you know, your series is called That's Cringe, that's... In my head I was like, "This is cringe."
23. CKCody Ko
  [laughs] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
24. SPShaan Puri
  Right now what's happening is a little bit cringe.
25. CKCody Ko
  Yeah.
26. SPShaan Puri
  What do you guys actually do when you do your live stuff?
27. CKCody Ko
  We did, uh, so like the first couple shows that we did were just, uh, on stage like podcasts, 'cause same thing, we didn't really know.
28. SPShaan Puri
  And then-
29. CKCody Ko
  We're like, "What do people wanna see?"
30. SPShaan Puri
  It's like-
17:00 – 23:00
How to crush live shows
1. CKCody Ko
  we toured the whole world.
2. SPShaan Puri
  Right.
3. CKCody Ko
  And we did like, I don't know, like 100 shows or something like that. So by the end is like we had the show literally word for word scripted and memorized.
4. SPShaan Puri
  Right.
5. CKCody Ko
  'Cause when you do it that many times it just becomes the same show, and then you like alter it a little bit every time. If something got a laugh, you'll add that back for the next one.
6. SPShaan Puri
  And-
7. CKCody Ko
  And it kind of evolves
8. SPShaan Puri
  ... so we had Samir from Colin and Samir in here yesterday, and I had asked him a question like, um, I think we said something like, you know, uh, w- what three creators do you see that you think, um, like could become billionaires? Like you talked about MrBeast, great. Who else? Who else do you think has that pathway or potential? And he said M- he said MrBeast, uh, he said, I forget who he said, Dude Perfect or something like that, and then he said you.
9. CKCody Ko
  No way.
10. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah.
11. CKCody Ko
  Really?
12. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah. And I was like, "That's amazing," 'cause he named 50 other YouTubers, by the way, during the episode that I was like, "Oh, cool, I've never heard of these people."
13. CKCody Ko
  Okay.
14. SPShaan Puri
  'Cause he's, I'm not like in the like, I have the things I like and I'm not like YouTube culture.
15. CKCody Ko
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
16. SPShaan Puri
  I'm not like everywhere on YouTube.
17. CKCody Ko
  Yeah.
18. SPShaan Puri
  And I was like, "Dude, he's coming in here tomorrow. I'm gonna tell him this and see how he reacts," and you sound surprised.
19. CKCody Ko
  [laughs]
20. SPShaan Puri
  Um-
21. CKCody Ko
  I definitely am surprised-
22. SPShaan Puri
  But you know, the thing-
23. CKCody Ko
  ... that he would say that
24. SPShaan Puri
  ... the thing he said wasn't like he's going to be. He's like Uh, they c- he's like, "It's up to them."
25. CKCody Ko
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26. SPShaan Puri
  He's like, "They c- totally can if they, if they choose to, like, optimize in that direction. They are, like, the ones who have, like, the, the, kind of the audience, the intelligence, and, like, the kind of the, the capability to do stuff there. Or they might take that energy in a different direction."
27. CKCody Ko
  Yeah.
28. SPShaan Puri
  Um, I also, uh, I was telling Ben on the way over here, I was like, I was like, "I feel like you and Noel could do a, uh, like, Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle movie almost."
29. CKCody Ko
  Yes. Yeah, yeah.
30. SPShaan Puri
  Um-
23:00 – 36:00
Get better at your craft
1. SPShaan Puri
  you get better by just doing reps, but sometimes, you know, if I wanna get better at something I might, you know, hire a coach, read a book, take a class. Uh, like, study and break down people who are already good at it. Like, how did you get good-
2. CKCody Ko
  Yeah
3. SPShaan Puri
  ... at doing what you do? Was there a, an intentional kind of process you went through?
4. CKCody Ko
  I think a l- a lot of the times, um, if I'm thinking about, like, getting what makes a good podcast or what makes a good YouTube video or what makes a good song, I'll just w- like, consume a lot of it and just think about it a lot. But I mean, like, the number one thing you can do is just do it.
5. SPShaan Puri
  Mm-hmm.
6. CKCody Ko
  You just learn by doing, at least for me. Um, so that's, that's how I've gotten good is just reps over time. 'Cause, like, if you go and listen to my first episode of my podcast, it was complete garbage.
7. SPShaan Puri
  Right.
8. CKCody Ko
  It's just something I've gotten better at. I'm still not that great at it [laughs] but, like, I've gotten better at it through the years.
9. SPShaan Puri
  Right.
10. CKCody Ko
  Um, and now I'm going through that sort of with, like, music production too. It's just like I'm at the beginning stage where I'm like, everything I make is a little bit better. And just leaning into that, the joy in, like, conquering the zero to one phase. And yeah, just, like, learning to enjoy the, that part of the learning curve I think is really important.
11. SPShaan Puri
  What are some things you figured out that made, like, let's say the That Cringe series, which now has, like, I don't know, 150 million views on that, that f- that style of video that you do. What's something you've figured out, you're like, "Oh, that's... I used to do it this way, then I figured out this and made it better"?
12. CKCody Ko
  I don't know if it's really anything conscious. You know, it c- it, it's like, it's mostly stuff that you just, like, innately pick up on when you do things over and over again, when you read comments and think about what people are reacting to. Um, but, you know, a lot of the times it's like the first time we did a video like that, you know, we were trying to riff and kind of stepping over each other's lines and jokes and punchlines and stuff. And the next time we did it, we got a little bit better at, like, letting each other speak-
13. SPShaan Puri
  Right
14. CKCody Ko
  ... and breathe. And, like, that's one thing that I think we're really good at now is we never speak over each other. Like, we never interrupt. We're really good at riffing, but, like, 'cause we're innately just conscious of, like, you know, the audience and what they wanna hear, and no one likes to hear people interrupting and stepping all over each other's jokes, you know? Um, so stuff like that, um, we just get better at, like, just because you do it, you know?
15. SPShaan Puri
  Uh, I like that answer, even though I wanted you to say, like, the trick. Uh-
16. CKCody Ko
  [laughs]
17. SPShaan Puri
  It's, like, a lesson I've had to relearn so many times that there i- like, you know, there are things that make things better, but they're, like, there wasn't the trick.
18. CKCody Ko
  Yeah, yeah.
19. SPShaan Puri
  It was, like, a shitload of reps-
20. CKCody Ko
  Yeah
21. SPShaan Puri
  ... and caring, and then, like-
22. CKCody Ko
  Yeah
23. SPShaan Puri
  ... you know, you just sort of, like, get better with every rep.
24. CKCody Ko
  But there's, like, there's-
25. SPShaan Puri
  Which is kind of the boring, it's like the, it's not the answer that's like, "Yes, I found the secret."
26. CKCody Ko
  I, I just think-
27. SPShaan Puri
  But it's like, that is the secret at the same time
28. CKCody Ko
  ... I don't think it would be fun if you went from zero to good at something just by doing one little trick, because it doesn't, you don't, like, I find so much joy in, in, like, getting a little bit better at something every time I do it, and then seeing a little evidence of that, which you get by posting online, right? Like, the next time you do something, you all of a sudden, you, you know, five comments being like, "Wow, this is better than the last one you did," and you're like-
29. SPShaan Puri
  Right
30. CKCody Ko
  ... "Fuck yeah."
36:00 – 44:00
Tiny Beat Gang and making music videos
1. SPShaan Puri
  like... For the running thing, is it, like... Why? Like, I, I don't... I am, like... If you told me to do an endurance thing, I'd be like, "Oh, you've suggested my least favorite activity on Earth."
2. CKCody Ko
  Yeah, yeah.
3. SPShaan Puri
  Why do you do it?
4. CKCody Ko
  My parents did it growing up, so it, it's kind of in my blood. I saw them do it. Um, and I've always... Like, they, they raised us, like, we would go on bike trips all the time, and so we were always doing it, and then we would see them do these incredible feats of fitness, and it just became something that I That drove me. And then I was, like, an athlete in college and stuff.
5. SPShaan Puri
  Right.
6. CKCody Ko
  So when I graduated, I was like, "I need something to stay in shape." So, like, running just seemed like the most natural thing, and then, uh, once you do, you know, five miles, you're like, "Oh." Or once you do three miles, you're like, "I think I can do five." And then you're like, "Oh, I should, I should maybe go for a half-marathon." You get kind of addicted to it.
7. SPShaan Puri
  Right.
8. CKCody Ko
  And then, so I've done, like, marathons ever since, and then my sister signed up for an Ironman, and she did it, and she's my younger sister, so I was like, "Damn it. She did that before me."
9. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
10. CKCody Ko
  So then I signed up for one, and then I did one, and now it just kind of, like, through that, I was going through, like, a pretty dark period, like, right after COVID, and, uh, through training for this, for these, I ge- I did an ultra-marathon first, and then I did an Ironman. And through training for those, I kinda, like, refound my confidence and my happiness.
11. SPShaan Puri
  Mm.
12. CKCody Ko
  So now it's, like, something I wanna make part of my life. So, like, I started the training channel, um, and now I'm just planning more things. Like, I'm gonna do the New York Marathon, and then I'm planning 100-and-something mile ultra that I'm trying to do.
13. SPShaan Puri
  What about the music videos you guys do? 'Cause, um, they're amazing, and, uh, they're, like, almost, like, too amazing. It's like, wait, like, where did this come from? Why is this, like, why is this good? Are you guys, is this what you guys actually do?
14. CKCody Ko
  [laughs]
15. SPShaan Puri
  Like, I didn't really understand. The first time I saw one, I was like, this is, uh, I don't know. I was just, like, very jealous. I was like, holy shit. Like, you can't have, you can't be like, "Oh, I'm relatable and funny, but I'm also, like, mega talented on the other side."
16. CKCody Ko
  [laughs]
17. SPShaan Puri
  It's like, no, you get to pick, you know? That's how life works. Um, w- how'd you guys start doing that, and why is it, like, why is it so, so fucking good, and, like, w- why don't you lean into that more if it's so good?
18. CKCody Ko
  I do think that, yeah, like, a lot of the stuff I've done or been successful at, it's been, like, like I'm the person to look at a pipe dream and be like, "It would be really cool to be that," and then, like, actually try.
19. SPShaan Puri
  Mm-hmm.
20. CKCody Ko
  And so that's kinda how that started was-
21. SPShaan Puri
  Like, you don't count yourself out, you mean. Like, you're like-
22. CKCody Ko
  Yeah, exactly. Like, I, I somewhere in me kinda believe that I'm probably capable of that somewhere, and I think everyone is of everything. Um, but I'm pretty good at, like, not, you know, turning myself down, I guess, at the beginning. And, and that's kinda what I lost in that, like, dark period, was I lost that confidence, and if I thought of something, I would revert back to, like, "No, you couldn't accomplish that." Um, but when it came to music, I was always like, it'd be cool to, like, do, it would be cool to, like, go online and say, "I have a new song out."
23. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
24. CKCody Ko
  You know what I mean? That would be a really cool thing.
25. SPShaan Puri
  Let's work backwards from that. [laughs]
26. CKCody Ko
  Yeah, exactly. And, like, I never, I never played any instruments besides drums growing up. I was never really musically inclined. I had a good sense of rhythm, and I really enjoyed music. And so I was kinda like, "No, this is something that's not really for you," and then I was like, "No, why can't it be?" And so I downloaded FL Studio. I made a beat, and for one of our videos, I invited Noel over 'cause he used to actually rap in high school. So I was like, "I made this beat. Can you just rap over it, and we'll make a funny song for the end of this video?" And, uh, he, you know, took a little bit of convincing 'cause he was like-
27. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
28. CKCody Ko
  ... "I closed this chapter of my life."
29. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
30. CKCody Ko
  And so finally got, I got him over to the place.
44:00 – 51:00
Frozen S’mores, Shark Tank for Creators, AI Thumbnail app
1. SPShaan Puri
  It's like we, we went gold. [laughs]
2. CKCody Ko
  Yeah, exactly.
3. SPShaan Puri
  S- so you, um, [laughs]
4. CKCody Ko
  That's good. I like that.
5. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah. I steal.
6. CKCody Ko
  I might steal that.
7. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah. I'm funny too, okay?
8. CKCody Ko
  [laughs]
9. SPShaan Puri
  One of my questions on my list was like, how do I, am I... It was am I funny and how do I get funnier?
10. CKCody Ko
  [laughs]
11. SPShaan Puri
  So-
12. CKCody Ko
  I would say yes
13. SPShaan Puri
  ... [laughs] 'cause you listen to the pod. Go ahead.
14. CKCody Ko
  Yeah.
15. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
16. CKCody Ko
  I, I would say you're definitely funny. I chuckle. I think you guys... Here, I'll give you some constructive criticism-
17. SPShaan Puri
  Thank you
18. CKCody Ko
  ... from a listener, from a fan of the show. I think you need better cold opens.
19. SPShaan Puri
  Agreed.
20. CKCody Ko
  A lot of times I feel like you use the wrong moments-
21. SPShaan Puri
  Well you're-
22. CKCody Ko
  ... and you should use the funnier moments maybe.
23. SPShaan Puri
  It's even dumber than that. We come from a different world, so it's like, uh... We're just dumb about like how you would do a creative process.
24. CKCody Ko
  Yeah.
25. SPShaan Puri
  It's like, oh, you should care about this, and like you should run a process that like, like looks at the feedback or the data and then like makes it better.
26. CKCody Ko
  Yeah.
27. SPShaan Puri
  Or like watch it together and be like, what could we do better?
28. CKCody Ko
  Yeah.
29. SPShaan Puri
  We've never done that.
30. CKCody Ko
  Yeah.
51:00 – 58:42
Going to Elon Musk’s house party
1. CKCody Ko
  just make it look a little bit cartoony, but then they'll, then they'll, like, blend it with the original thumbnail so that it's not-
2. SPShaan Puri
  Gotcha
3. CKCody Ko
  ... obvious, but it's eye-catching, and you're like, "Something's weird about that thumbnail."
4. SPShaan Puri
  Right.
5. CKCody Ko
  Which is what it takes to stand out.
6. SPShaan Puri
  Which is the point of a thumbnail. [laughs]
7. CKCody Ko
  Which is the point. It doesn't, it, like, you know, people think that a good thumbnail is, like, contrast and colors, and it's like, a lot of times that ends up blending in.
8. SPShaan Puri
  Right.
9. CKCody Ko
  You just wanna look different. So I think AI does that. Like-
10. SPShaan Puri
  I remember, uh, in history class, at Duke actually, I learned, uh, that Hitler did that. So back-
11. CKCody Ko
  [laughs] Hitler
12. SPShaan Puri
  ... back in the day, you and Hitler-
13. CKCody Ko
  Okay, yeah. [laughs] Wow
14. SPShaan Puri
  ... like, so, like, minds think alike. He, all the posters were colored, like, just like print... Every- everybody was... And so he, a- all of his marketing was done in black and white.
15. CKCody Ko
  Yeah.
16. SPShaan Puri
  Black and white flyers, posters, whatever.
17. CKCody Ko
  Yeah.
18. SPShaan Puri
  'Cause it was just the contrast-
19. CKCody Ko
  Yeah
20. SPShaan Puri
  ... to everything else.
21. CKCody Ko
  Yeah.
22. SPShaan Puri
  And it was like, yeah, it was like-
23. CKCody Ko
  So there you go. Take a page out of-
24. SPShaan Puri
  Yeah
25. CKCody Ko
  ... Hitler's book-
26. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs]
27. CKCody Ko
  ... when you think about thumbnails. But I think-
28. SPShaan Puri
  Cold open. Got it.
29. CKCody Ko
  Yeah. There's... Yeah, exactly. [laughs]
30. SPShaan Puri
  [laughs] I'm learning.