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My First MillionDecoding The Extreme Personalities of The Top 1% (Savage Mindset)
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70 min read · 14,246 words- 0:00 – 1:00
Intro
- SPShaan Puri
Egon is great. He has a very aggressive bedside manner. [laughs] An aggressive bedside manner is, like, the nicest way possible of calling the guy a dick. Uh, this guy's definitely an asshole [laughs] . And you know, they're like, "Oh," you know, it's like, "He's just very direct. He's very, he's very honest. He's a straight shooter." And those are all just ways of being like, "This guy will trample you." [upbeat music] What's up, Sam? Are you... I don't know if you're ready, but I'm gonna ratchet up the intensity a little bit here. I'm gonna start high intensity on the podcast. I'm gonna talk about some high-intensity individuals. Would you like to hear about some high-intensity individuals?
- SPSam Parr
I wore my high school le- letterman jacket.
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
If you're not, if you haven't noticed, I'm shocked you haven't made fun of me. So I'm ready for high intensity, if you can't tell. I look like a, like the big man on campus right now.
- SPShaan Puri
You look like Al Bundy right now, like, just dreaming about the good old days. So, uh, [laughs] I ca- I don't know if you're ready for
- 1:00 – 16:00
Egon Durban of Silver Lake
- SPShaan Puri
this.
- SPSam Parr
I wanna be-
- SPShaan Puri
I-
- SPSam Parr
... I, I, I wish I could've took state. That's the vibe I'm in, and so I'm ready for some intense stuff.
- SPShaan Puri
I'm gonna tell you about some people that I think you know of. F- A couple of them I think you know a lot about, but they're all tied together, and they are all what I would call all-in individuals.
- SPSam Parr
They're all insane.
- SPShaan Puri
They're all kind of insane, and they're insane in the same way, which is that they are all the way in on what they're doing. And I was reading their stories, and I was kind of inspired. And they're all very different stories, but then I realized, no, no, no, it's actually the same story. It's about being all in. Okay, so who are these people? First, I wanna start with a guy named Egon Durban. I think you know who Egon Durban is, but I don't know, do you know his full story?
- SPSam Parr
I don't know his full story. He kinda is shrouded in mystery a little bit. I know that he's been on top of the game since he was probably 30 or 35, and he kinda controls, it seems like, almost LA a little bit.
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs] A little bit, yeah. So he is the managing director of Silver Lake. And Silver Lake is a giant private equity investor that invests in technology. So they have 72 billion in assets under management, which is... I'm pretty sure that's bigger than every venture fund combined.
- SPSam Parr
D- did you say 72?
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah, 72. So if you take out the vision fund, I'm pretty sure this is bigger than, like, almost all VCs combined. Okay, so who is this guy? And, uh, you know, he's got a crazy track record I wanna talk through. But, like, first I just wanna give you a few quotes, again, about these all-in individuals. And I give you these quotes because even though I don't do anything like this guy, I'm not a fund manager, I'm not a managing director of a private equity fund. I have no desire to be so. I do see some of these descriptions of him, and I'm like, "It'd be nice to be called that. It'd be nice to, to have that be a true thing somebody could say about me." And sometimes you just gotta hear it. You just gotta hear that level 12 exists for you to even, like, unlock that part of your brain. Okay, so let me tell you some things. So he goes, he goes to school, he goes to Georgetown, he goes to Morgan Stanley, and then he is known immediately in the, like, banking world. They're, they're, they interviewed some people and they go, he came in as an entry-level junior guy, right? Early 20s. And they go, "Egon was immediately comfortable at the grown-ups' table." And they go, he just carried himself very differently. It's not that he had the experience. It's not even that he was smarter than anybody. But he carried himself like, "I belong in that conversation, and I'm gonna show up that way. And I'm not gonna just, like, label myself as a, as a junior here, and I'm just here to learn. I'm just happy to be here." Didn't ever have that energy. The next thing that, that I heard, Egon is great. He has a very aggressive bedside manner [laughs] . An aggressive bedside manner is, like, the nicest way possible of calling the guy a dick. Uh, this guy's definitely an asshole [laughs] . And you know, they're like, "Oh," you know, it's like, "He's just very direct. He's very, he's very honest. He's a straight shooter." And those are all just ways of being like, "This guy will trample you." Um, and aggressive bedside manner is the next thing I learned. So 1999, he leaves, uh, his banking, the banking world to join Silver Lake. And he's like, "I think technology, internet..." This is 1999. It's the dot- dotcom boom is happening. He's like, "I think this is the next big thing. I'm gonna go here." And so he goes, and he's like, he does a very smart career move. And y- uh, if you see this career move, you know this person's a winner, which is they join a thing that's working, but instead of staying at the mothership, they're like, "Hey, what's the next frontier?" And they're like, "Oh, we need to expand into Europe." And he's like, "Cool, you got like plans or, like, a person in charge of that?" They're like, "Uh, not yet. We wanna do that next year, and we're gonna do a search to find somebody." He's like, "Cool, I'll move there now, and I'll do it." [laughs] And so he moves to Europe, and he builds out the whole European business.
- SPSam Parr
For investing in European tech companies.
- SPShaan Puri
Exactly. And one of the big tech companies that he invested in in Europe is Skype. So Skype was a European company. Skype had already had its run-up, but then it had, um, you know, kind of faltered. And so he partners with A- a16z, a16z at one point, and he buys Skype out for one- $1.9 billion. And people were like, "This is, like, it's hard to turn a technology company around. It's kind of on the decline. It's riddled with lawsuits right now. This is a messy buy." And he goes in, and he basically is like, "All right, we're gonna do two things. We're gonna hire a great CEO. We're gonna settle all these lawsuits, and we're gonna actually invest in making our product better, 'cause the product's just been atrophying for, for whatever, for so long." And so he immediately settles the lawsuits, hires a great CEO, starts investing in the product, and in 18 months he sells the thing all cash to Microsoft for $8.5 billion. So 1.9 to 8.5 billion.
- SPSam Parr
Wow.
- SPShaan Puri
He basically triples their money, but on a, like, billion dollar base, like, uh, principal amount, and so immediately makes a name for himself, uh, after doing the Europe thing with that. And he's doing this at a time when there's, like, a bit of a power struggle at, uh, Silver Lake.
- SPSam Parr
And by the way, he's only, like, 35 at this point?
- SPShaan Puri
I don't know how old he is exactly. Yeah, he's probably, let's see... Yeah, he's probably 30, uh, or 30 or early 30s, uh-
- SPSam Parr
Wow
- SPShaan Puri
... is my guess. So 2008, uh, financial crisis is happening, and the founder of Silver Lake, this guy Glenn Hutchins, one of the founders- And he's like this crazy guy. If you go watch interviews of him, he's like mustached, he comes into the office with like barefoot. He never wears shoes. He's kind of like one of those like, you know, one with nature founder type guys, but he's in private equity, which is usually like suits and, uh, you know, cut, you know, cutthroat type of guys.
- SPSam Parr
All right, everyone, a quick break to tell you about HubSpot, and this one's really easy for me to talk about because I'm gonna show you a real life example. So I've got this company called Hampton, joinhampton.com. It's a community for founders doing between $2 million all the way up to like $250 million a year in revenue. And one of the ways that we've grown is we've created these cool surveys. And so we have a lot of founders who have high net worths, and we'll ask them all types of questions that people typically are embarrassed to ask, but provide a lot of value. So things like how much the founders pay themselves each month, how much money they're spending each month, what their payroll looks like, if they're optimistic about the next year in their business, all these questions that people are afraid to ask, but, well, we ask them anyway, and they tell us in this anonymous survey. And so what we do is we've created a landing page using HubSpot's landing page tool, and it basically has a landing page that says, "Here's all the questions we asked. Give us your email if you wanna access it." And then I shared this page on Twitter, and we were able to get thousands of people who gave us their email and told us they want this survey. And I could see, did they come from social media? I can see, did they come from Twitter, from LinkedIn, basically everywhere else [laughs] that they could possibly come from. I'm able to track all of that. And then I'm able to see over the next handful of weeks how many of those people actually signed up and became a member of Hampton. In other words, I can see how much revenue came from this survey, how much revenue came from each traffic source, things like that. But the best part is I can see how much revenue came from it. And a lot of times it, it takes a ton of work to make that happen. HubSpot made that super, super easy. If you're interested in doing this, you can check it out, hubspot.com. The link's in the description. And I'll also put the link to the survey that I did so you can actually see the landing page and how it works and everything like that. [beep] I'm just gonna do that call to action then. And it's free. [beep] Check it out in the description. All right, now back to MFM. By the way, I think the other guy, I think all three of the founders are like hippies. The other one, Roger, uh, uh, McNamee, I think his name is. Do you know who he is?
- SPShaan Puri
I didn't look him up too much, but yeah, I saw him.
- SPSam Parr
He's a little bit of a hippie. Like he's in like a Grateful Dead cover band.
- SPShaan Puri
Right.
- SPSam Parr
Like if you... Like more people know him, I think, as the, as a musician than founding this multi-billion dollar company.
- SPShaan Puri
And they kind of had to be because if you're, if you're in the '90s and you're doing technology, then you're early, right? And you're early because you're a believer in something, and you're usually an early adopter. You're not... U- usually it's like the MBAs come later, right? The, the, the business school kids come later in the, once, once the opportunity's already defined.
- SPSam Parr
Which is crazy because Silver Lake now is known as this like buttoned-up place.
- SPShaan Puri
Of course. As, as, as is Microsoft now and Facebook now and all the things that at one time was just like college kids just living in a hacker house type of thing. So it's 2008. Uh, financial crisis happens. That guy Glenn, he's getting real stressed out. He's like, "I just need to take a step back." Egon Durban's like, "I'm here. I'm been here. I'm ready for this." And so he starts to step forward. He had just done the big... He just does the big, um, Skype deal, so he's kind of riding the, the wind of that. That's, that's like the big news basically in the, in the industry. They're, they're out to raise a fund, and he's like, "I'll help you raise that fund. You can use this track record and my name, and I'll, I'll be one of the... But I need a seat at the top." And so there's a bit of a power struggle. The other founders don't really wanna step back. He wants a seat at the table. Power struggle. There's sort of the coup, and Egon and four new guys basically become the new managing directors, and the founders basically all end up stepping back.
- SPSam Parr
But a PE firm, there's not like one owner. It... Are PE firms a little bit like law firms, where there isn't ever like an owner, but as you rise, you get an equity stake, and so it almost becomes a partnership, not like a-
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah. Well, it's a partnership either way. But, uh, usually you raise a new fund, and when you raise a new fund, you define who are gonna be the... How, how is the pie gonna get split up. And so as they raise fund-
- SPSam Parr
Right
- 16:00 – 21:00
The methods of Ari Emanuel
- SPShaan Puri
analysis,' or whatever." Um, he's like, "But I don't like to do formal board meetings every quarter. Too slow. I like the pace that Ari moves, these 90-second phone calls every day." Which takes me to the next all-in individual, Ari Emanuel. [laughs] So, uh, you, you know Ari Emanuel, and a lot of people know him 'cause he, he, the character in Entourage is based off of him. But there was some things that, about him that I didn't, didn't fully know that, that was kind of interesting. Uh, did you know he's one of three brothers, and all three brothers do really interesting stuff?
- SPSam Parr
So there's a book that I read years ago. It's called, um, what's it called? Something America. Uh, The Brothers Emanuel, I believe it's called. Brothers Emanuel: A Memoir of an American Family. And I think it's in that book, Ari Emanuel, so Ari Emanuel's, uh, probably a billionaire. He o- he's one of probably the, the shot caller in LA. His brother is Rah Emanuel, who I think was the mayor of Chicago and on Obama's cabinet or something like that, a political power player. And in the book, Ari and Rag, Rahm, I think Rahm is his name, they go-
- SPShaan Puri
Rahm, yeah
- SPSam Parr
... they go, "P- a lot of people know us, but they don't know that our third brother, Zeke, Ezekiel, he's the smartest and the more successful brother."
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
And his brother, Ezekiel, I believe, I'm gonna screw up the titles, he was head of, what's the head of, like, health for the government under Obama? And I-
- SPShaan Puri
He basically made the, the Obama, Obama Care, right? Like, he was the architect-
- SPSam Parr
Yeah
- SPShaan Puri
... of the Affordable Care Act.
- SPSam Parr
I think he also has done some major things. I don't remember exactly, so don't quote me on this. Don't turn this into a Shorts. But I think-
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
... he helped pioneer the heart transplant and things like that. Like, he invented, like, things that save lives, and he, and the two brothers are like, "Zeke's the smart one. We're just more, like, stubborn and bullheaded a little bit."
- SPShaan Puri
So that's hilarious. Um, they asked him, they were like, "Hey, do you watch, like, Entourage? Like, what do you think of Ari Gold? Is that, is that you?" And he's like, "Well, they got some things right. You know, I am very aggressive." [laughs] And they're, and they're, he's like, "You know, I didn't go into an office with a paintball gun and shoot everybody, so like, you know, I didn't do that. But you know, they, they got a, a lot of things right unfortunately." And he's like, um, they're like, "You know, how have you changed over the years? Are you still as aggressive?" He goes, "Look, here's what, here's what I have to say. You need to know when you're on the field. When you're on the field, you're there to compete, you're there to win, and you're, you're there to kill." But you, he's like, "The one thing I have learned is I've learned that I'm not always on the field, and sometimes I'm off the field and I need to behave a little bit differently." He goes, "That's the only change that's happened to me in like 30 years." [laughs] Um, I thought that was a- also funny as an aggressive person. We know somebody who worked with them, and they told some pretty hilarious stories. So apparently, this guy's day is like this. So growing up he was, like, dyslexic, I think, so he, he had to go to, like, a reading teacher for, like, three hours a day or something like that, and he's like, "I hated it. I used to cry all the time. I used to feel so embarrassed by it." He's like, "Then I just realized, whatever, this is my superpower. I'm gonna win a different way. Okay, I can't read these contracts, I can't read this stuff, so I'm gonna surround myself with... I'm gonna basically work differently and I'm gonna surround myself with people who could do those things for me, and I'm gonna do other things that only I could do well." And so his day is basically, he's, like, walking on a treadmill, he's got the earpiece in his ear, and his assistant is just call- he just has, like, a call list. His assistant is just getting people on the phone that he wants to talk to for, like, 30 to 90 seconds at a time. [laughs] And he just immediately hits someone up, calls them, and in 90 seconds makes the point, hangs up, and then he's onto the, and the next call is ready in his ear and he just goes to the next one, which is just hilarious.
- SPSam Parr
And I think it starts at, like, 6:00 AM, I think. I read an article where he's famous for, he would do something like 200 calls a day, and it starts at 6:00 AM, and he's talking to people all day-
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
... just making deals.
- SPShaan Puri
Somebody told me, he was like, they're in his office and he just has a, a bag of almonds, and he's just, whenever he wants his assistant's [laughs] attention, he was throwing the almonds, bag of almonds at her. [laughs] He'd just hit her in the head with an almond, and she would turn around, and he's like, "Next call. I need the next call." [laughs]
- SPSam Parr
[laughs] What a douche. [laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
Exactly. All these guys, all of them, all of them have the same trait. All three of the people I'm gonna talk about. Okay, so he also had the classic story. The same sto- But there's so- It's like, there's something about working in the mail room. So, like, David Geffen, Barry Diller, Ari Emanuel all have the same story, which is basically started off in the Hollywood mail room and used that as their, like, feeding ground. And I, I was thinking about this, I was like, what is it about the mail room? And if you think about it, what is the mail room? So the mail room is basically, it's the shit nobody else wants to do, so it's already a filter. It's gonna filter out anybody who doesn't really want it, 'cause it's so unglamorous. That's interesting thing number one. Interesting thing number two is the way it works is you're basically making copies of scripts and stuff, then you gotta drive it around town. You give it to clients, you deliver the paperwork, you get the, you go fetch lunches, you hand off the lunches to somebody who's in a meeting. Um, and if, if you do good at that, then you can become an assistant, then you can become an agent, and then whatever. But you, like, you learn the town and you're working seven days a week. And so the guys who ended up making it, they basically u- used that as their opportunity to build, like, an incredible network, because the job is kind of networking. And so they used that, the, like, used every rep of that instead of just being like, "Ah, whatever, I'm gonna just mentally check out," to actually build their power network, and that's kind of like, you know, part of how all three of those guys, um, you know, rose to power. Can I tell you the last one now? The last
- 21:00 – 38:00
The making of Dana White and UFC
- SPShaan Puri
all in individual?
- SPSam Parr
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I'm, I'm, I'm into this.
- SPShaan Puri
Okay. So you know this person well, but I don't know if you know the full story. I didn't know the full, full story till I researched this, but Dana White. Um, [laughs] so I want you to tell me kind of, like, a little bit about what you know, and then I wanna fill in some gaps of thi- new things I learned when I was looking at this.
- SPSam Parr
All right. So Dana White, I think he was a boxing instructor, but not, like, coaching real boxers. Like, it was, like, a Jazzercise class in Boston. [laughs] He was in Boston, and he moves into this bad neighborhood, and Whitey Bulger, who's a big gangster at the time, he comes to Dana's office or, or his, his Jazzercise gym or whatever and he goes, "Hey, man, you're in my hood, you owe me 1,000 a month," or something like that. And Dana White doesn't pay him, 'cause he's like, "Oh, I'm a tough guy. I don't need to pay this guy." And then eventually he realizes that Whitey's the real deal and he owes him 10 or 20 grand, and Dana's like, "Dude, I have nothing." So he moves to Vegas to flee.
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
He went to high school with these two rich brothers, the Fertittas brothers. The Fertittas brothers, um, they, uh, they come from a wealthy family, so they owned, like, penny casinos, like, where, like, people, like, at... It was, like, a low class thing at first, where it was like their parents owned this, this casino, and it's almost at a gas station, I think, where, like, people would put in, like, penny slots. From there, they owned, uh, a few other casinos. I think the Station Casino, or Golden Nugget, I forget what they're called. And, uh, so they get money, it starts working. And so the two sons, Lorenzo and Fertitta, they, uh... Or no, Lorenzo and what's the other one?
- SPShaan Puri
Frank.
- SPSam Parr
Frank. They, uh, they, they become kinda guys in Vegas. They actually start a few companies and they buy a few companies. One of them was Gordon Biersch, which was a cider and beer company. They were one of our first advertisers at The Hustle. And they, so they start making deals. Dana comes to them and goes, "Hey, man, this thing called the UFC, it's kind of a sport. I know you guys, you brothers are somewhat into jujitsu. I went to one of these events, they're pretty amazing. The guy selling the brand, in reality what we're gonna get is a crappy little octagon and just the name UFC. It's $2 million, let's buy it." They get convinced to do it, to do it. Dana gets 4% of the equity, the other guys get the rest, but they fail for four or five years, so they're in the hole, like, $35 million. They come up with this brilliant idea to have a TV show called The Ultimate Fighter in order to promote the events. The events are kind of popular, but, like, it's not really making money. They create this event called the Ul- uh, this TV show called The Ultimate Fighter. They convince Spike TV to air it. At the time, Spike TV was a pretty big deal, but not that big of a deal. And they do this series and they're like, "Dude, we're going out of money. We can't afford this series anymore." Then Forrest Griffin and Stephan Bonnar have their famous fight. And at the time it was a huge deal. I was a kid. I remember watching this fight. I get a phone call from a friend being like, "Dude, you gotta turn this fight on. This is so amazing." At the end of that fight, their, the winner is supposed to get $1,000 contract. At the time it was... Or 100,000. They called it a six-figure contract. Back then, that was a big deal to get a six-figure contract. The fight is so good, even though one guy won, but it was so great they give both of them six-figure contracts. From there, the UFC kind of took off. That was, like, the turning moment. And so Dana and these two brothers, two brothers are kind of the business, like, brains behind it, and they're really low-key behind the scenes, but they run this business and eventually it sells for $4 billion to Ari Emanuel's company, and, uh, now it's, like, the hottest thing going. Is that... Did I... Did I-
- SPShaan Puri
Very good. Very good off the cuff. I like it. I wanna fill in a couple of little details here that I thought were interesting. Stuff I didn't know. So you're right, Dana grows up in Boston. But he, and he goes to college twice, drops out twice in the first semester. He's like, "This shit just ain't for me."
- SPSam Parr
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
And so he goes to college twice, drops out twice. He ends up as a bellhop. So he's a, he's a bel- he's a bouncer, he's a bellhop. He's, like, doing asphalt laying. Like, you know, he- that's what he's, that's what he's doing with his life. He wants to be a boxer, but he sees a guy come in who he knew as a boxer, and he looked up to, and that guy was just totally punch drunk, and he's like, "Oh, shit, I can't do this." So he's like, "Maybe I should teach, like, boxing classes, like boxercise instead of, uh, instead of actually trying to be a boxer." So that's kinda like the opening. Now, he's doing all that, and he describes that he wants to... He's like, "I wanna maybe get into boxing promotion." And he's like, "I'm not sure exactly. Maybe I could be a boxing promoter." But he's a bellhop at the, at the, whatever, the hotel, and he describes the day that he quit. And he's like, "I was just sitting there," and he's like, "Actually, we used to get paid pretty well for being a bellhop." I forgot what it was. It was like, you know, 22 bucks an hour or something back then. He's like, "Well, it's not that the money was so bad." He's like, "And I like the guys that I worked with." But he's like, "Am I just gonna do this shit forever?" And he's like, "I had the realization that every day that I do this, I'm not doing, it's another day that I'm not doing the thing I want." He's like, " 'Cause before I used to feel like, you know, I can always someday go do something." And he's like, "You know what? Screw it." He go- he says, um, [laughs] so he- here's, here's what he says about it. He goes, um, he goes, "If I had to tell you one thing," and he's giving a talk later, he goes, "it would be to take the risk." He's like, "Because when I quit and I actually went for my thing, guess what? I realized I can always come back and be a bellhop. Like, this life I have is always here because it's the bottom. It's not where I wanna be anyways. What do I have to lose? I, uh, worst-case scenario, I can just come back and b- just get another job like this." He goes, "But I will never get back this window of time I have right now in my 20s that, like, I can go and take a shot at something." And so that was kinda like his mindset and his mentality. So he quits, and he's like, "I wanna start..." So he starts trying to, he's doing the boxing thing. He's trying to, trying to be a p- become a promoter, and then you're right, the, the mob thing happens. [laughs] And here's what he said about it. He goes, um, "These guys show up and they're like, 'Hey, you owe us $2,500.'" And he's like, uh, he's like, "In the movies, it's cool when you see, like, mobsters and mafia. If it's real life and they want you, shit's super scary." He's like, "That is not cool." And he's like, "So I..." He's like, "I was like, I have no way of paying this." He's like, "So I'm just gonna..." He goes, "I go home that night. I just go to delta.com, and I bought a one-way ticket to Vegas." He goes, "I left all my shit there, like z- like my TV, my dresser. Like, I just left it there. I had no, I couldn't do anything." He says, "I just ran away, basically, from these guys once I realized that they're pretty serious. I bought a one-way ticket to Vegas." So-
- SPSam Parr
And the guys who were behind it, it was, it was Whitey Bulger, who's, like, the real deal. He's, uh, from the movie Black Mass with, and he's the, the character behind the, The Departed.
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah, exactly. And, like, when he first, when they first came in, they were like, "Hey, you owe us $2,500." He's like, "I f- I don't owe you that. I, for what? I don't have it. Like, what do you want me to do?" And then couple weeks go by, and then they call him, and they're like, "You owe this money by tomorrow 1:00 PM or else." And he was like, "Oh, shit, okay, I gotta get out of here."
- SPSam Parr
I'm out.
- SPShaan Puri
So he left basically that night. Um, couple other things. I thought he was friends with the Fertittas. They actually didn't know each other. Uh, like, they, they only knew of each other in high school, but they weren't friends.
- SPSam Parr
Got it.
- SPShaan Puri
And what he said was basically they, they knew of each other, and they knew, they, they liked Dana because Dana was kind of like, like, basically [laughs] he tells the story, he's like, "We had this class that we all hated." And he's like, "Dana realized that the teacher was, like, really, like, uptight, and so it kind of sucked to be in that class. But because the teacher was uptight, like, one little thing could distract the teacher and throw them off." So he's like, "Dana would go to the restroom, and he would kick this door really hard. And he'd kick the door really hard, make this huge sound."
- SPSam Parr
That's-
- SPShaan Puri
"The teacher would go, like, become irate, like, 'Who the, what is that? Who's doing that?' And he would go try to find the person. Dana would run away, but the class would basically, half of the class would go by with no teacher because, like, teacher would be looking for somebody. So he used to do that, like, every week. And then one day [laughs] he did it, but his shoe, like, flew off, and he was like, 'Oh, shit, uh, I don't have...' Like, he's like, "He just had to jet. So the teacher found the shoe and realized it was Dana, and Dana got in trouble." But the Fertittas always, like, logged that in their mind. They're like, "Man, he took a bullet for us," [laughs] basically.
- SPSam Parr
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
So years later they're at a wedding, and they meet u- meet up, and they're like, "Dude, I haven't talked to you in so long. You know, how, what, what do you do?" And he, like, learns what the Fertittas do. He learns what he does. One of the things Dana says, he's like, "Yeah, I teach this, like, boxercise class. I'm doing jujitsu." And I think Lorenzo was like, "You know what? I'm doing good in business, but, like, I'm not really doing anything fitness-wise. Like, I wanna train jujitsu." And Dana's like, "All right, sure, I've heard that a million times. Nobody actually shows up." Lorenzo, the next morning, is there ready to do jujitsu. That's how they actually got to know each other. That's how the Fertittas started to fall in love with, like, you know, fighting or MMA. [lip smack] So what happens is, while he's doing that, he becomes an agent. Same thing as Ari Emanuel. Becomes an agent first becau- before he becomes a business owner. He starts representing-
- SPSam Parr
For Tito Ortiz, I think, right?
- SPShaan Puri
... Tito and Chuck Liddell. But the UFC is, like, so small back then. Even though these guys are the big stars, they're so small. But that, in doing that, he's negotiating a contract with the owner of the UFC. He's like, "You gotta pay Tito more. Look at how much money this guy's bringing in. He's the face of this. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta step up." And the guy's like, the guy's negotiating, negotiating. He's like, finally he's just like, "Look, Dana, there's no money, all right? This whole thing's gonna fall over. Like, you're not wrong, but I have nothing to give." And Dana's like, in that moment, like, basically should've been a disadvantage, like, "Shit, my main business is gonna go down the drain. Uh, you know, the owner can't pay him, can't pay my fighters. Like, this is over." But he turned that disadvantage to an advantage. He's like, then he, that's when he approached the Fertittas to be like, "Hey, let's buy this thing." And the one, one funny thing is that owner had mismanaged the business so bad that they didn't even own ufc.com. He had sold it to just get a little bit of cash to user-friendly computers, and then [laughs] Dana had to go buy it back from userfriendlycomputers.com [laughs] and, like, get back ufc.com's domain, which I thought was amazing. Um-
- SPSam Parr
And I think when they bought it, Dana was like, "What did..." Someone asked Dana, they go, "What did you get when you bought it?" He goes, "Well," he had this, like, octagon-
- SPShaan Puri
Old octagon, yeah
- SPSam Parr
... which is basically just, like, a cage and, like, mats, which is not very expensive, but it was really just that name. I loved that name, UFC, so much. We had to have the name.
- SPShaan Puri
Exactly. And then he's like, you know, they had put 40 million more dollars into it. He felt so bad he's losing his friend's money, and they were trying to make it work, but it just wasn't working yet. And Lorenzo calls him. He's like, "Dude, I can't do this anymore. Like, I, I can't keep bleeding money like this. If you could, like, can you try to sell this thing? And Dana's like, "Okay, my buddy needs me to sell this." And so he's like, he calls everybody, and he calls back Lorenzo the next day, he's like, "There's not a lot of appetite for this thing. I think the best we could do is get 6 or 7 million bucks for this." And Lorenzo's like, "Okay, let me, uh, let me call you tomorrow." The next day he calls him. Who knows what he had for morning that break- th- that morning for breakfast, but he's like, "Fuck it. Let's keep going." [laughs] Uh, like, you know, "Let's put in another 10 million, one last chance to turn this business around" And then that's what they used to create the Ultimate Fighter, that last 10 million investment.
- SPSam Parr
So he's in 50? They're 50 in?
- SPShaan Puri
They were 50 million in.
- SPSam Parr
Well, it was all funded by the family's casino and previous successes.
- 38:00 – 41:00
Insane habits of the Fertittas brothers
- SPShaan Puri
bullet points I have here. They work out every day together, the brothers, at 7:00 AM. [laughs] I like that. I just like that as a brotherly thing to do. The second thing, they attend all meetings together. So they're not like delegate, divide, and conquer. They're like, "No, bro. We're going to all [laughs] the meetings together." They both sit there, they drink a Diet Dr. Pepper, and they attend almost every meeting together as well. [laughs] And then they, like, ball out. They got yachts and planes and art. And their cousin, Tilman Fertitta, also is a baller. And so, like, they're just kind of a crazy family that made it-
- SPSam Parr
Yeah
- SPShaan Puri
... in this, uh, wild, wild west time-
- SPSam Parr
I was-
- SPShaan Puri
... of Vegas.
- SPSam Parr
I was gonna say, do you know who their cousin is? Their cousin, cousin is Tilman. Tilman got famous because he, he, I think he bought into Landry's, which is a, I think, what is it, a steak, steak restaurant in Texas. From there, he bought many, many other things, including, like, Bubba Gump Shrimp and, like, a ton of, like, those not fast casual, but, like, Applebee's. Like, not nice, but, like, kinda nice if you're broke and you wanna go out to eat type of situation. And then eventually he bought out the whole company after taking it public, and I believe now it's one of the most profitable privately held companies where he owns 100% of it. So there's a lot of, a lot of privately held companies that are quite huge. His company is 100% owned by him. I think it... I read his biography. I think it does something like $3 million a year in EBITDA, and he bought the Houston Rockets as well. So he's, like, but he's, he's known as being a real asshole. The other Fertitta guys, all the interviews I've seen with them, they seem shockingly... They're still sharks, but they seem shockingly well, well-mannered and calm and, and, and they, they, they seem, like, really easygoing, if that is such a word that could be described these types of sharks.
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah. They, they are incredibly respected. Um, I'll leave you one last little quote I liked from Dana. So he said, uh, he goes, "You know," uh, about the risk-taking thing. He's like, "You know," he's like, "You can always go back to your job, but here's what you can't do. You can't go back and get this opportunity again. You can't rewind time. You can't make, get back your youth to take risks." He's like, "I realized that I didn't wanna be on my death bed with a bunch of 'I shoulda's.'" He goes, he goes, and he goes, "Not everything I've done has worked. And what I've learned is that even if it turns out shitty, it's not just that you learn how to win. Sometimes the most important learning is I thought I wanted to do this, but it turns out that's not what I wanna do." And I thought that was a really wise thing that m- most people don't say.
- SPSam Parr
What's he referring to? Walking away from the UFC?
- SPShaan Puri
It might've been, like, it, it could've been anything. Could've been, like, when he wanted, thought he wanted to be a boxer, then he goes and then he realizes, "Oh, actually, like, only through trying this did I learn that that's not actually the thing I wanna do," right?
- SPSam Parr
Oh, this is Dana. Okay.
- SPShaan Puri
This is Dana talking. And so I thought that was good, 'cause everybody talks about, "Oh, it's okay. If you fail, you'll still learn." But n- rarely do they explain this, that one of the most important things in general in life is just figuring out what is the thing you actually wanna be doing. Most people go their whole life never f- never finding that, and then they're in their 30s or 40s or 50s and they feel like it's too late to even try a new thing. They're so far down one path. They don't wanna go back to the bottom of the mountain and try a new path. And so I thought this is so important to know is, like, early on when you're not that far up the mountain, use
- 41:00 – 45:00
Sam's loyalty complex
- SPShaan Puri
that to your advantage because you can go back to the beginning and choose a new path, and that sometimes going down the path, it's not just about becoming a better hiker. It's about learning this isn't a path I like, and the only way I could've known that was by trying.
- SPSam Parr
My biggest takeaway from these stories is loyalty. So I've heard Dana and the Lorenzo brothers talk about their little trio, their, their three-person team. They're crazy loyal to one another, and I was always envious that I didn't have, like, a brother that was about my age who I wanted to, uh, partner with or work with. And so I've read about the Re- Lorenzo brothers a lot, and I'm very envious of that relationship that they've had. They seem like they've had a healthy relationship with their parents, who are business people. And then when they brought in Dana, they are all crazy loyal to one another, and they never disrespect one another publicly. Uh, it's all... It seems like a great partnership, and that's been my biggest takeaway from, from these guys is loyalty. Even Dana, I don't like many of the things that he's done, and I'm actually not a Trump supporter, but he was like, "Trump was nice to me in 2008," or something like that, when he needed it-
- SPShaan Puri
When nobody else was
- SPSam Parr
... he's like, "No one would, no one would help us. Trump helped us. I remember that. Therefore, I w- I'm gonna repay him." Now, I don't think Dana is a straight-up guy all the time. Like I said, I think he's done a lot of messed-up stuff. But his value of loy- hi- his, how he looks at loyalty, I appreciate, at least and when it comes to those three, those two brothers.
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah, you're kinda like that too, where, like, loyalty is a, um, [clears throat] deep-rooted value. I feel like if someone's loyal to you-
- SPSam Parr
It's very
- SPShaan Puri
... or disloyal to you even in a small way, I feel like that goes really deep in your core. Is that right?
- SPSam Parr
I don't forget. So someone will do something-
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
... someone, like, do you remember that story that, um, I explained about how I asked a reporter if she wanted to freelance for The Hustle and she said, "That's cute," and I, like, have always held a grudge and I wanna destroy her? I went and re- reread the email. She didn't say, "That's cute."
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
She said, "That's so sweet. I appreciate you so much, but I'm not interested But for some reason at the time, ugh, I read it and I, I went and reread it the other day when I was talking to Sarah and I was like, "Maybe she actually wasn't being rude."
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
But for the last 10 years I've been waiting for this woman to make a mistake and I wanted to pounce on it be- just to get revenge because she dismissed me. I've been wanting to do that so bad, and I'm so thankful that that hasn't happened yet because she actually wasn't rude to me. Uh, I reread it. But the point being is if someone's disloyal to me, I wanna destroy them, and the people who are loyal to me, yes, I, I go all in on them. Because if you don't... Look, I moved to San Francisco with n- not knowing anyone. The way that you get ahead is you have to have a, a group of people who you do everything for, and you expect them to do everything in return. And once you find that group of people, it helps you so much. Not just in life but, or not just in business, but for everything else. It helps so much.
- SPShaan Puri
And we have a friend who is so incredibly loyal that it, like, sets a standard of loyalty.
- SPSam Parr
It, it's almost annoying.
- SPShaan Puri
You know who it is.
- SPSam Parr
It's almost annoying.
- SPShaan Puri
I don't need to say.
- SPSam Parr
'Cause he'll buy, he buys the best gifts and I feel like I've gotta go, like-
- SPShaan Puri
But forget the gifts. It's not even about the gifts. It's like, I know that if I was in trouble, this guy would drop everything. He would drop everything more than my dad would drop everything to come, to come help. And he would-
- SPSam Parr
He would say, "Send location"
- SPShaan Puri
... send me location. Exactly. [laughs]
- SPSam Parr
He'd say, "Send location. I'm there."
- SPShaan Puri
This guy, his loyalty, his level of loyalty is, like, next level, and I don't even know why. It's not like it's ever even been tested in that way. I've never had to send me location, but why do I feel that way? I have no idea. But the f- but I do. You can't convince me otherwise, uh, 'cause he has shown it in a bunch of, like, small ways that you know that the big way would always be there. And, um-
- SPSam Parr
But man, it, it's paid off wonderfully for him. He was successful on his own, but he's been, he's definitely gotten ahead. But then there's been times, I was with him one time and he wanted to ride a skateboard. I go, "Ramon, don't ride the skateboard, dude. You're 40 years old. You're about to hit your head. Do not do this." He does it anyway.
- 45:00 – 47:00
Other f*ck you qualities
- SPSam Parr
He gets a concussion. I, we gotta take him to the hospital. We have to m- we take care of his kid while he's in the hospital for two or three days. And so he's been repaid a little bit in his loyalty.
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
But it's paid off. And I, and I, and I've seen, I'm like, "I feel like I owe you so much that I will do anything in return to, to get you back." And so it's helped him so much. Uh, and so anyway, I respect that about these guys, is that how loyal they are.
- SPShaan Puri
Well, I was thinking about, here's a little philosophical thought experiment for you. You know, you know the phrase F you money? Like, "Oh, he's got F you money." And I think a lot of people aspire to have that. But an interesting question is what are the other F yous? Like, you know, maybe, um, uh, you know, Sam, you could be like, "I have F you health," right? 'Cause if you're, if you're in c- absolute pristine health, you have physical fitness, you're, you're, you're extremely athletic, you're mobile, you're whatever, right? You could have F you health. Like, what else could you have? And I think Ramon has, he has F you loyalty, right? Where, like, it is, it is, he's just full, uh, fully abundant in the loyalty that he has for others and that others will have for him. 'Cause me and you and, and, and everyone I'm sure that he's friends with, we would all go to bat for him completely. And I just, as a thought experiment, it's like what are the other versions of F you that actually are more valuable than having F you money? Have you ever thought about something like this?
- SPSam Parr
That's a great question. So what else, what are the other options besides loyalty?
- SPShaan Puri
Like, my trainer, uh, my personal trainer, he's got, like, F you happiness, where, like, the guy's happy no matter what's going on. Which is kinda the way that F you money works. It's like, dude, he'll do whatever 'cause he, like, he does- doesn't give a shit. He just doesn't care. My trainer's like that where he just doesn't give a shit. There's traffic? "Oh, I'm having a party in my car." Oh, this person cut me off? "Well, oh, I'm..." you know, whatever. He just makes his own version of, of like-
- SPSam Parr
Well-
- SPShaan Puri
... he's always in a good mood no matter what is going on. He's completely unconditional. He's completely invincible.
- SPSam Parr
I think you have it. I think you have that. So you-
- SPShaan Puri
I aspire to have that.
- SPSam Parr
Well, in my opinion, from my perspective, you have that. I was thinking the other day, I'm like, "When, does Shaan ever get rattled?
- 47:00 – 49:30
Knowing your pucker number
- SPSam Parr
Uh, or does he ever get, like, stressed and unhappy?" And there's been stories, and I've seen it firsthand, where someone has said something to you rude or you've had something didn't break your way and it, and it was a tough break. And you're, you're hard to, like, get down. I mean, I've been with you when you've lost a bunch. I've been, I've seen you lo- make a bunch, but I've seen you lose in a variety of bets that you've taken. You don't get rattled. You tweeted out something the other day. You said, um, your, your pucker butthole... What was it? Uh-
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs] I was like, "Everybody's got a butt clench number."
- SPSam Parr
A butt clench.
- SPShaan Puri
It's a, it's an amount of money where it makes your butthole pucker up a little bit.
- SPSam Parr
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
And it's good to know where your pucker number is right now, and just keep note of that. And I was like, I said, uh, 'cause I had just wired a bunch of money and, like, it's not even that I was, like, wor- it's not even that I was, like, worried, oh, I'm gonna lose it, but I was literally like, "Let me just double check the routing number. Let me just make sure I got that right." Which I don't usually, like, I don't usually bother to be like, "Okay, uh, palms are a little sweaty. Let's go ahead and hit the button." Like, if you ever use MailChimp.
- SPSam Parr
Dude, I do that with $1,000. I do that with $1,000.
- SPShaan Puri
MailChimp has the best, like, animation when you're gonna send an email. You know, you know the one I'm talking about? Where it's the monkey's finger about to push the send and it's sweating and it's trembling?
- SPSam Parr
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
'Cause it's like you're about to email your whole list. Let's just, are you sure you got all the details right? That's, like, that's the pucker number for, for some people with their email list. And so I think everybody's gotta know it. [laughs]
- SPSam Parr
Your number was high. I, I, I'm like that with 1,000. And so when I think about, like, why am I stressed about certain things? I definitely try to think, you know, um, there was, uh, who was it? I think it was JFK, he had a photo of Abe Lincoln on his desk. And he goes, "I just always try to ask myself what, what would Abe do?" Sometimes when I get stressed I think-
- SPShaan Puri
He had a photo of me
- SPSam Parr
... what would Neville Medhora do?
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
And what would Shaan Puri do? Like, how would they handle this? Neville Medhora is another person who has no stress. There was one time when he was trying to, he had never owned a house, and he was thinking about buying a house. And he had never thought about finances 'cause he's been making a great living for years and years and years, and he never thought about money. He could buy whatever he wants. And he was thinking about what house he wanted, and he was just gonna pay cash, like, or something like that, where it was, like, a big investment, his first big investment. And then he was talking to my wife and I and he goes, "I couldn't go to bed last night. I, be- 'cause I was thinking about buying this house, and I can't buy exactly everything I want, and I actually have to, like, second guess some of the things." And then he- we were just sitting there, we didn't say a word, and he looked at Sarah and he goes, "Is that stress?" [laughs] And we were like, "Yeah, dude, that's what stress is. Like, finally you experienced it at the age of 38 years old."
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
And, uh, you, you, and-
- SPShaan Puri
He goes to the doctor, he's like, "I have a tingling sensation." [laughs]
- SPSam Parr
He's like, "What, what is this thing where I stayed up, like for an hour last night just thinking about this?"
- 49:30 – 58:31
How cheap is your happiness?
- SPSam Parr
And you and Neville have that same thing, where you have a very high tolerance.
- SPShaan Puri
But, but dude, it, it's crazy when you see it, 'cause people take pride. They're like, "Man, I don't tolerate no disrespect." And it's like, what are you really saying there? What you're really saying is like-
- SPSam Parr
Wait, so what, what are you saying? You to- you tolerate it?
- SPShaan Puri
You can't disrespect me. If you say something, that says something about you, not me. What do... [laughs] Well, you can't bother me. Like, uh, you know, uh, there's a great way Tony Robbins said this. He goes, um, "How cheap is your happiness?" Meaning, if all it takes is somebody doing something really little to take your happiness away, your happiness is cheap. You, you got the TJ Maxx of happiness, right? You are the lo- you are the dollar store of your, of your... Your mood is in the dollar store, right? Anybody can go get it for so little. Someone could just take the grocery cart in front of you that you wanted, and now you're a little bit piffed, right? Right? Like, don't be cheap with your happiness. Be expensive. Be luxury.
- SPSam Parr
I heard a very funny story about you, and if this violates anything, we'll delete it. So I was with Ben last night for, at Ramon's birthday. We did a little birthday thing for Ramon. Ben told me this funny story about how you were thinking about writing a book, and you meet with this amazing author, and the author asks you something, or maybe he was like, "Why do you need my help?" And you were like, "Well, I think I can do it. I think I'm, I'm talented enough to do it. I just don't have the time right now, and I just would rather you do it." And you said something that I guess this guy thought that you were being rude. And the guy, in the middle of the meeting, goes, "Well, stop the conversation. I'm out of here. This is not a good fit." And instead of being insulted, your, your takeaway was, "Wow, I, I really respect that about you. You did a great job of like standing up for yourself."
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
Uh, where I would've-
- SPShaan Puri
So that's not what happened. The... Here's the, here's the story of what happened
- SPSam Parr
I would've taken that very offensively
- SPShaan Puri
Here's the story of what happened. Um, we meet with this guy, he's a book development guy. So basically there's, there's somebody in between an editor, a publisher, a writer. And a book development guy's just the guy who's gonna help you think through the concept and then flesh it out, right? So I'm like, who's the best in the world at this, right? And a question I will always ask. Who's the best in the world at doing this? I wanna talk to them. So I meet with this guy. Who's the best in the world at doing this? And what he asked me was not w- why do you wanna write this. I didn't say I don't have time. What he said was, "What do you wanna write about?" And I go-
- SPSam Parr
That's right
- SPShaan Puri
... "Oh," I go, "I think I could write about anything." I was like, "I could write a book about storytelling. I could write a book about marketing." I was like, "I feel like that's actually the, the problem. And maybe I'll write multiple books, I don't know. But I wanna..."
- SPSam Parr
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
I was like, "I have so many ideas. I want you to help me think through which of those ideas." And he goes, "That's a nightmare." [laughs] He goes, he goes, uh, he goes, "That's probably the worst answer you could give to somebody like me." He goes, "I want somebody who's spent 10 years, 20 years of their life only thinking about one thing, and that's the thing that they need to pour into a book. The guy who's like, 'Oh, I could write about any, anything and everything,' oh God, that's gonna be miserable for me to figure out." And-
- SPSam Parr
And he like ended the meeting, like before it was-
- SPShaan Puri
He didn't end the meeting, no. He, but he goes, "That would not..." He's like, he's like, "That, I don't wanna do that. That's not a fit for me." So he didn't end the meeting, but he's just, he just was like, "I'm gonna be honest with you." And I go, I s- I was like, "All you did was make me want you more." I was like, "That's exactly what I want out of my development guy."
- SPSam Parr
[laughs] Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
Push back, 'cause the, the speech I had given about what are the things I could write about and why, it was a good speech. It was an A+ speech. It was only 60 seconds long, but I was like, I made a strong point there. And whenever s- ever s- and whenever somebody can say the truth in the face of my persuasion, I have an extreme amount of respect for them. It's not about generic pushback. It's about truth. The guy said the true thing, which was, that's not what you want when you're writing a book. What you want is, I, my whole life has been building up to this one book and this one moment and this one thing that I can't wait to pour out of me, 'cause I've, I've refined it in my head for 10 years. And I was like, "That's actually right, and I wanna work with you even more now. But I also agree with you, and that you're completely right. Thank you." And I was like, I th- I like thanked him profusely for that. The same thing happened the other day on a tax call.
- SPSam Parr
Well, by the way, my, my point being is I think that's a really healthy way that you a- approached it.
- SPShaan Puri
Let me tell you about a more offensive thing, uh, that happened that was, uh, also not offensive to me. I have been looking for a, a tax person, and I was like, um... So I created this whole like tax data room and I sent it to a couple people. I was like, "Hey, I heard you're good. Take a look at my situation and tell me what you think." And most of them they're like, "Hey, took a look at..." So I did three calls. First call, door number one, guy goes, um, "Hey, took a look at everything. It looks really good. I have two suggestions of maybe if you did this instead, you could save some money." I said, "Okay. Thank you for your suggestion." Person number two says, "Hey, this looks, uh, this looks great. You know, congratulations on all your success. Um, you know, I definitely think we can handle this for you. We have other clients that are similar, and I feel really confident about it." I said, "Okay, thank you for that. Uh, cool. Not quite what I'm looking for, but, but okay, thank you." Third, third door. I get on the call [laughs] and this guy goes, "All right, I took a look at everything, and um, I'll be honest with you. You have way too much complexity for how much money you make." [laughs] And I was like, "Thank you. I feel the same way."
- SPSam Parr
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
But a part of me, my ego was like, "Uh, did you look at the numbers? The- they- they're going up. That's actually 2022. 2023 is better, better, and 2024's gonna be great." Like, my ego wanted to be like, "Are you saying I'm a broke little bitch?"
- SPSam Parr
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
'Cause like that's what I heard. The way you heard that lady, like, that writer say, "That's cute," and she didn't actually say that. In my head, what I heard was, "You're too poor for me. Thank you. Like, you know, let, l- I, I don't really wanna do this." And I felt that for like 15 seconds. But then more than that, you know, I, and I let myself have the feeling for 15 seconds of like my ego, like being deflated, like a, you know, a, a pin pricking my balloon there. But I was like, "What do I actually want? Let me remember what I actually want." And I hired the third guy, of course. [laughs] I was like, "I totally agree. Can you help me fix this up?" And he's like... And then as we were talking, he's like, "Actually, now that you've told me more, a lot of this does make sense 'cause the trect- trajectory, but like, you know, I still think we need to simplify, and I still think that like, you know, you really gotta ask yourself-" Do I really wanna optimize all this for taxes or would I rather just spend my time making, you know, actually growing the business and making more money? And I'm like, "You, sir, are exactly what I've been looking for." And even though that first punch hit me right in the gut and I wanted to get defensive, I have learned that that gets me no- absolutely nowhere, and I just let that feeling go in 15 seconds. And that's actually the tip, by the way. Everybody has the same feelings. It's just that some people hold that for, like, 10 years. Some people get mad for three days. And then the goal is, like, can you just have the feeling for 30 seconds and move on? And, like, you-
- SPSam Parr
I don't think that should be the goal, dude. Rage is an amazing motivator. I have achieved a whole lot remembering being dumped by a high school girlfriend.
- SPShaan Puri
You've had great accomplishments, but you should probably remember that, like, you want all those accomplishments 'cause you think they're gonna make you feel better. And feeling rage is not the better you seek. So using rage-
- SPSam Parr
We can deal with that. We can deal with that in, in therapy.
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah, using rage is not really the way, right?
- SPSam Parr
In therapy-
- SPShaan Puri
Just remember, you never want the thing. You want the feeling you think the thing is gonna give you. And using rage to get there-
Episode duration: 58:31
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Transcript of episode i5SWK6Q04w8
