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My First MillionHow he turned his dad’s bakery into a $20B chocolate empire
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Transcript
50 min read · 10,430 words- 0:00 – 2:19
Shaan gets invited to graduation
- SPSam Parr
Well, I gotta bleep this out, but [beep] and he's extremely multi-billionaire.
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs] Extremely multi-billionaire.
- SPSam Parr
Extremely. [upbeat music]
- SPShaan Puri
Sam, I have here in front of me a letter that I need to read for you. So I, uh, I open the mail, and I see a invitation like this to a graduation, and I think, "That's not my cousin. That's not my nephew. Who is this?" "Dear Shaan, my name is Quentin Wood. I've been listening to MFM for, uh, since twenty twenty-one. Over the last five years, you and Sam's podcast has made a huge impact on my life, shaping how I see the world, investing in stocks, my goals, my life. Your podcast brought me a lot of joy and helped me through long runs and study sessions. Uh, you and Sam have directed my life for the better, so thank you. I'm a high school senior this year, and because of the profound impact you've made in my life, I wanna invite you to my graduation and graduation party."
- SPSam Parr
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
He lives in, he lives in Colorado. "Thank you for, thank you for taking the time to read this and everything you do. Keep making more episodes. Sincerely, Quentin Wood, high school senior."
- SPSam Parr
Baller.
- SPShaan Puri
Isn't this amazing?
- SPSam Parr
Baller. [gentle music] [laughs] Congrats, Quentin.
- SPShaan Puri
Take a bow, Quentin. [clapping]
- SPSam Parr
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
How good is that, man? L- I love this kid.
- SPSam Parr
If you're under the age of twenty-four, you should do some of these things that might sound insulting, like we said, "That's endearing," or I would never say, "That's cute," but, like, you feel, like, that emotion. You should one hundred percent embrace doing those things-
- SPShaan Puri
Right
- SPSam Parr
... because you can only get away with this at a very s-- for the very small time, and it's totally appropriate and totally awesome.
- SPShaan Puri
It's like pooping your pants. You can only do it for so long. [laughs]
- SPSam Parr
[laughs] Oh, and then when you can do it, like, later in life. But, like-
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
... you-- Like, this type of stuff, uh, one hundred percent is awesome.
- SPShaan Puri
And by the way, it, it-- A lot-- Okay, a bunch of people have written letters, but just inviting to the high school graduation was so endearing, I just thought. [laughs] I was like, "Oh, that's so, like, so wonderful." And Diego was like, "So we're gonna go?" I was like-
- SPSam Parr
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
... "No. Hell no. We're definitely not going," but, but I, I will play him the song and, and give him the clap. This is great. Okay, I wanna tell you about this, this business story that, that, uh, this-- To me, this is, this is a Billy of the week. So this is a, a,
- 2:19 – 16:09
The richest man in Italy
- SPShaan Puri
a billionaire family that I, I found really fascinating, and I've been into these, like, family dynasties. Last, last week, I think we were talking about Cargill, and this one is-
- SPSam Parr
Wait. Can I-- I wanna try and guess these. I like-
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah
- SPSam Parr
... trying to guess.
- SPShaan Puri
Let me give you a couple of clues so you know which direction you're going. The richest man in Italy.
- SPSam Parr
Sunglasses or chocolate?
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs] Chocolate.
- SPSam Parr
Okay. [laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
Do you know who it is?
- SPSam Parr
Yeah. Uh, I-- Ro- Ro- Roch- Roch... Is it called Roch something? Uh, Fer- Ferrero.
- SPShaan Puri
Ferrero.
- SPSam Parr
Yeah. [laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
So, uh, okay. Well, you got that pretty quick. [laughs]
- SPSam Parr
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
Okay. It's a lot less fun when you just know the answer, huh? If I was a teacher, I would just be like, "Well, fine. Teach yourself then" and walk out of class.
- SPSam Parr
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
Um, dude, this family story is amazing. So I love Ferrero Rocher, the chocolate. I don't know if you've, like-- if you're a fan.
- SPSam Parr
Love 'em.
- SPShaan Puri
Do we, do we have one? Oh, here. So if for those who don't know, I have some here. Got this from, uh, from the grocery store this morning 'cause I was so inspired by these guys. I was like, "I'm gonna go support their small business." [laughs]
- SPSam Parr
[laughs] Yeah, you bought local.
- SPShaan Puri
He's worth thirty-two billion dollars.
- SPSam Parr
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
Um, so th- these chocolates are kind of amazing. They're-- The packaging is amazing. If you've ever had one of these, you really feel like you're eating something special, and that got me kinda interested in, like, what's the backstory of this? Turns out this family invented Nutella. They invented Tic Tacs. They invented, like, a whole bunch of Kinder, the Kinder bars and Kinder eggs. They invented, like, uh, several of these, like, really big things, and now they own a whole bunch of other businesses. So I wanna tell you the, the story of this, this company that's-- It's one of the most secretive family-owned businesses in the world. They do, like, twenty billion dollars a year in revenue. The founder, uh, the, the, the main guy, the, the, the heir, he runs the company and is the richest man in Italy, and the way they did it is really fascinating. So, um, back in the day, this was post-- right after World War II, Italy, which was like, you know, not in great shape post-World War II, um, it was trying to kinda bounce back. And so this guy, uh, the grandfather, uh, of, of this guy, he decides, "I'm gonna start, um, making chocolate." Chocolate was really expensive. It was, like, this luxury item. It wasn't, like, a little common thing you found at every store. Not everybody was eating it. And so he starts, but he, he had the, he had the form factor wrong. He was trying to make a, a bar, like a, a spread. So it's like butter. It, it would be, like, this kinda hard chocolate, like, butter stick, essentially. And his idea was, like, people will put this on toast, and you'll have, like, a chocolatey toast.
- SPSam Parr
And I think at the time, like, chocolate was, like, something, like... It w-- It was, like, the equivalent of caviar. Like, if you went to, like, a fancy dinner party, you would see it. And if I remember correctly, I don't even think it tasted nearly like it tastes now.
- SPShaan Puri
No, I bet.
- SPSam Parr
It wasn't like-
- SPShaan Puri
They've just added butter and sugar over the years to the mix of, like-
- SPSam Parr
Yeah
- SPShaan Puri
... 'cause if you have, like, a c- a cacao bean or cacao powder, it's, like, bitter. It's, like, very bitter, right? So, so you, you really have to, like, butter and sugar it up. So he, he tries the bar. People don't like it. They're complaining. They're like, "It's too hard. Doesn't spread easily." So he's like, "Okay, I gotta solve the spread problem." And he comes up with a jar with cr-- like a creamy chocolate, like a, a jam, basically. And it's like a precursor to Nutella. It wasn't quite Nutella yet, um, but the idea was, like, make it super spreadable, put it in a jar, and it was called Supercrema. And so he starts trying to sell Supercrema, and it's doing okay. It's him. He's, like, the chef, and he's just trying to make, like, delicious pastries, basically, and he's got the brother who's the business side, and they're, they're doing all right. Not great. But over time, the son takes over. And the son Is a bit more of an innovator. So first, I think the government, like, bans the use of crema in the name, so he's gotta rebrand it anyways, and he decides to call it Nutella. And, uh, it, it was m- 'cause hazelnuts are a big ingredient for the thing. And he makes it, he tweaks the recipe, makes it better, and the son starts innovating. He gets in the lab, and he basically creates... He notices that breath mints are great, but there's all these problems. They come in these, like, big tins, hard to carry around, right? This, like, big, giant rectangle. To open it up, you had to, like, kinda find the seam and pop it open. And then, you know, if you wanted to, like, share it with somebody, they had to, like, dig through, touch all of them. And so he creates the Tic Tac form factor. So-
- SPSam Parr
That's crazy. I didn't know that
- 16:09 – 26:51
The golden window
- SPShaan Puri
uh, I did have a r- random idea recently that I, it's kind of, like, fascinated me. So I was listening to some interview with, um, the chef from Carbone, and he said something. Like, the interview actually was a little bit boring, but he said one thing that I thought was, was pretty interesting. He goes, "Oh, I was always obsessed with food. I was 12 years old, and I was, I s- I was an absolute foodie. I was always watching cooking shows. I knew about every restaurant. I knew I wanted to be a chef." And you know, one of the greatest gifts that nobody really talks about, right? Like, you want, you want your kid to be, you know, really good at school or really good at sports, really whatever. I mean, really, one of the best things you can do is figure out what you actually love to do in life. The earlier you figure that out, that's actually the big advantage. And so, you know-
- SPSam Parr
I think that was Warren Buffett's advantage
- SPShaan Puri
It's Warren Buffett's... It, it's everyone, if you read these guys, they... You know, Jim, uh, MrBeast is like, "Yeah, at 12 I deci-- at 11 years old, I decided I was gonna die a YouTuber. Like, I just wanted to be a YouTuber. That's all I wanted to do." And so from 11... He's like, "Yeah, so I'm," whatever he is now, 28. He's like, "Yeah, I've been, I've been doing this for 20 years." [laughs] You know what it's like, "I've been doing this 17 years now." And so he's literally just spent more time on this than anyone else. Warren Buffett bought first stock at seven and basically was thinking about businesses, money, and stocks since he was very young, and, and had time during that golden window. And, and when I interviewed Mohnish Pabrai, he was... I was asking him about these books on the wall. He had a, this whole section on, like, science and neurosci- uh, neuroscience and, uh, psychology. And I go, "What's something you really took away from reading a bunch of these?" And he goes, "We have a certain hardwiring that's kind of baked by the time you're six or seven, like your, your core nature, your DNA. Y- y- you kind of know who that person is." But he goes, "And there's a golden window." And I think the golden window was something like, you know, six to 16 years old. And during that 10-year window, if you found something that's, that you can obsess over and you can, um- You get free rein to actually obsess over it during that window. You will sp- hyper specialize when the brain is in this certain period, and you'll become world-class. Like, you- your, your, the rest of your life happens, and if you really don't... And so he, he talks about this with investing. He's like, "I don't invest in companies where the CEO doesn't have an evidence of the lemonade stand when they were 10 or 11." Because if you really, if you're an entrepreneur, you were an entrepreneur at an early sta- Now, I don't 100% believe this, but I did think it's interesting, and you do see this pattern a lot where-
- SPSam Parr
Did he have that? Did Maneesh have that?
- SPShaan Puri
Uh, yeah. So he, I asked him that, and he was like, he's like, "Yes." And he goes, "It wasn't for entrepreneurship, it was basically for, like..." His dad had a jewelry business or a gold business or something like that, and he's like, "Basically, my MBA was every day my dad would come home, and the business was failing, and me and my brother had to figure out something we could try to get this business to not fail, to have enough cash to be, like, in business next month." And so in doing that, he's like, "I basically got my MBA when I was eight years old, every day helping my dad with his jewelry business, working in the store, coming home, hearing the problems, hearing the inventory struggles, the cash flow management problem. W- if we have all these sales, why don't we have any money? Oh, because there's a difference between revenue and profit, between profit and cash flow." And, you know, he's, like, learning these things without knowing the names of them, like this sort of intuitive gut learning that's happening during that phase.
- SPSam Parr
And for the record, you don't need that to be pretty successful. I do think that-
- SPShaan Puri
To, not to be pretty s- but to be world-class.
- SPSam Parr
Yes. I think that that's the advantage that the best of the best of the best have over the rest.
- SPShaan Puri
And you see, like, oh, in the Wor- World Cup right now, it, it's like, um, Lamine Yamal, and it's like, you... What, how come the US doesn't produce players like this? And it's like, well, because at age seven, he went and moved in to the soccer academy, and he was there from seven to 17. And guess what? He's amazing now at 18. [laughs] You know, like, which, which maybe your kid would have been too had they left the house and moved in, um, you know, to the soccer academy at age six or seven, and that's, like, really all they trained and focused on for a long period of time. Are you willing to do that? Uh, the book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell talks a little bit about this. Like, you know, at a young age, Bill, Bill Gates and Paul Allen, the founders of Microsoft, their school was the first, one of the only schools in the country to have a computer. So he got to mess around with the computer for free. He had free access to it after school for, like, a very long period of time. You know, Firkon, my old co-founder, he would tell me, like, yeah, his dad worked at a computer company, so when he was five years old, like, his earliest memory wasn't, like, playing catch with my dad. It was, like, building a printer from scratch. [laughs] It's like, yeah, no, no, no joke that now he can, like, build anything, um, because during that golden window, he did that. Anyways, long way of saying I've thought about how you could be somewhat intentional about this. Meaning, if my kid shows an interest in something, I think I'm gonna lean in way harder than most people would during the golden window, and I've thought about taking, like, a sabbatical year where I'm just, like, gonna pluck him out of school for, you know, in fifth or sixth grade and just be like, "Hey, we're gonna travel the world, and, like, we're... I'm just gonna develop you. I'm gonna shape you now, not, like, when I'm 65 and I've retired and I have more time, because you're gonna be... The cookie's already crispy by then, you know what I mean? Like, I gotta do it when the dough is raw."
- SPSam Parr
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
And so I'm thinking about that. Um, does that sound crazy? Does that sound-
- SPSam Parr
No
- SPShaan Puri
... a little too much?
- SPSam Parr
So, it's so funny. Um, a friend, for my birthday, a friend gifted me the Andre Agassi book that I, I haven't started it yet, but I was asking him what he learned. Uh, ha- have you ever read that, Andre Agassi's, his biography?
- SPShaan Puri
No, I haven't.
- SPSam Parr
It's considered, it's considered one of the best biographies, and I'm not a tenne- And my friend and I, neither of us are tennis guys, but he's like, "It's, it's so good." And I said, "What's the big takeaway?" And he was like, "The crazy thing is Andre didn't even seem like he loved tennis, and he, he frankly didn't seem like he had superstar energy. Um, like, he kind of begrudgingly did it, uh, but he was pretty good." And I was like, "Well, how did he become, like, one of the greats of all time?" And he said, "His dad, his dad was maniacal. His da- Like, his dad saw that Andre showed a little bit of interest, and he just pushed him and, and just went all in on it." And I was joking, and I was like, okay, so maybe he, maybe he did or didn't have a good relationship with his father, I'm not sure. But I think that, like, these guys, like, uh, Serena Williams' dad, Andre Agassi's dad, like some of these harsh fathers-
- SPShaan Puri
Agnes's, yeah
- SPSam Parr
... I'm like, they get a lot of shit, but, like, it seems pretty worth it, like-
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
... to have this, like, tiger dad, this tiger mom energy. And, um, I was watching, uh, Nadal's, uh, uh, documentary on Netflix. Did you see that one? Um-
- SPShaan Puri
Uh, I've seen a little bit of it. Yeah, b- I love Nadal.
- SPSam Parr
His-
- SPShaan Puri
I love Nadal.
- SPSam Parr
Dude, his dad was the same way. His father was so hardcore about it, and he pushed him and pushed him and pushed him and was his coach. And then there's this other guy named Sebastian Coe, who's a famous runner, so, you know, not, not that many people are gonna know who he is, but he's, he w- had the world record for the mile. And his dad, Peter, was the same way, where they would run, and his father would be in the car with a stopwatch timing every interval.
- SPShaan Puri
You know, it's, it's, behind every great man is a great woman. It's like, and an abusive father. [laughs]
- SPSam Parr
Yeah. [laughs] And I do think that there's a way that you can do this where you can, like, balance, like, being a good-
- SPShaan Puri
Well, I, I-
- SPSam Parr
... like, a nurturer and also a pusher
- SPShaan Puri
... just to clarify one thing. I'm not saying I'm gonna, like, hyper train them for greatness on, like, you know, "Hey, get up, we're running sprints every morning." Like, you know, whatever, up the hills. What I meant was really I'm gonna give them exposure, 'cause I think most people, the problem isn't that you found what you love and then you didn't keep doing it. 'Cause when you really love something, it has a great amount of pull. You just do it anyways. I think what most people don't do is they don't really get to walk around Costco and sample the things, and I think that's actually the more interesting thing is, like, how do you get somebody exposure, because I would say the vast majority of people never even find out if they really love something. 'Cause by the time you... Like, school is such a regimented track, right? You're spending eight hours a day doing the same exact things as every other kid. Did you happen to love photosynthesis? Did you happen to love trigonometry? Like, probably not. And so by the... And then, and it's all just funneling you to get into a college, and when you get into a college, and it's about getting a job. By the time you have a job, now you're working and you're trying to, like, pay for life, and by the time you're 30, you're like, "Well, I didn't really get that one, that, that opportunity to go figure out that actually it was podcasting that I really had an affinity to. I actually really loved that." Or it was, you know, whatever it is, like baking. It was this, it was that. It doesn't real- I, it's hard to even know, and I think most people never even know. And so the thing I wanna make sure I do for my kids is Gets you to at least feel and see what diff- what the world is at, what are, what's even on the menu of options so that you have some exposure in life, 'cause I don't think the world by default does a good job of giving you exposure.
- SPSam Parr
You and I have a great friend, Ramon. So R- Ramon Van N- Van Meer, and, um, he... Ramon had a difficult situation where he became a single dad when his son was only two years old. And I met Victor when he was, I think, three. Now he's actually a, a sophomore or junior in college. And, um, he, uh, R- Ramon was crazy. Um, partly he did this out of necessity, partly because he's a really amazing dad. And, uh, he would bring Victor, starting at the age of maybe seven, to these really big business meetings. I remember he sold one company when Victor was something like 10 years old, he sold it for close to $10 million. And I remember he would go to LA from San Francisco, and he would take Victor out of school and bring him. And Victor would just sit, uh, like next to him, and Victor wouldn't talk, but he would, um, uh, pay attention to the meeting, and afterwards Ramon would be like, "Victor, what's your opinion? What should we do?" Um, and then another time, uh, Victor has actually been to China, um, uh, I think a couple times.
- 26:51 – 36:04
meeting an extreme multi-billionaire
- SPSam Parr
That's awesome. Okay, let me tell you another story about someone. You and I, we get invited to some stuff that occasionally is interesting. Most of the time we both say no, but I decided to go to one of these dinners, and it was in a beautiful apartment, and clearly some guys, uh, there were like total ballers. But I sit next to this one guy, and he's very unassuming, and I start talking to him, and he's very nice. He's kinda like Dharmesh Shah, the, the, one of the founders of HubSpot, like very low-key. And he's like, "How are you using AI?" And I'm like, "Well, I made a Chrome plugin that helps you select like which jeans fit you if you go to a store, if you like jeans."
- SPShaan Puri
John, look at my ass right now.
- SPSam Parr
[laughs] Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
Tell me that these don't fit-
- SPSam Parr
Do you see these jeans? [laughs] Yeah
- SPShaan Puri
... fit like they were fitted by AGI.
- SPSam Parr
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
Three cities don't have water right now because-
- SPSam Parr
[laughs]
- SPShaan Puri
... these pants fit so well. [laughs]
- SPSam Parr
Yeah. [laughs] And, uh, I was like, "How about you? What are you doing?" And he like starts explaining some stuff, and it's kinda blowing my mind, and I'm like, "Wait, who are you?" And he says his name, but he doesn't really say what he does, and the guy runs maybe one of the most, if not like the top three like financial services business in the world, and he's extremely multibillionaire, and he's the founder of-
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs] Extremely multibillionaire.
- SPSam Parr
Extremely.
- SPShaan Puri
[laughs]
- SPSam Parr
Like, he's so extreme, and I thought I- after he- I start talking to him like, "I recognize you. You have articles written about you." It's where it's like this mysterious billionaire.
- SPShaan Puri
Wait, say his name and then we'll bleep it.
- SPSam Parr
Okay. So he's the founder of [beep] .
- SPShaan Puri
Yes. Okay.
- SPSam Parr
So one of the most like sophisticated financial services business.
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah.
- SPSam Parr
Are you... It, it potentially is the mo- one of the most profitable in its field, making like tens of billions in profit.
- SPShaan Puri
That's, that's almost an intimidating person to meet. It's almost like, have you ever... Do you... You know, I used to have this old Dell laptop that when it really st- when you s- when you opened up a few too many windows, the fan would kick on and it would start heating up. I feel like that dude's brain must just be like that.
- SPSam Parr
[laughs] Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
Is, was there just heat exhaust coming off of him?
- SPSam Parr
[laughs] Yeah. I'm, I'm closer to a homeless guy in terms of like accomplishments and brain power than I am to this guy.
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah.
- SPSam Parr
And it was so awesome that this guy walked into this room. He was one of the most quiet guys. He probably talked the least amount-
- SPShaan Puri
Wait, wait, wait. Before you describe his calves and stuff, what did he say about AI? You said he was blowing your mind a little bit. What did he say?
- SPSam Parr
Uh, I have to be somewhat vague. He was saying, he was just explaining like how they do it for like trading and like making financials decisions, but he, frankly, he was using f- he, he clearly was trying to talk my level.
- SPShaan Puri
Mm-hmm.
- 36:04 – 42:52
An update about Ben WIlson
- SPSam Parr
All right, I could talk to you... Let me talk to you about something. Um, it, it's gonna sound sad, and it is sad, but I think it's, like, really interesting, and, uh, I, I have permission to talk about this, but I think it's cool. So you and I had a producer named Ben Wilson. Ben Wilson, uh, was our producer for My First Million for a long time, and he now has a podcast called How to Take Over the World. Uh, he's got four kids under the age of five years old. It's crazy. And six weeks ago, he found out that he has stage four lung cancer, uh, where the, the odds are not in his favor, but he's got, like, the best doctors in the world, so, like, some crazy things might happen, and he's very optimistic. But I went and met with him yesterday. He, he's in New York to see a doctor. And I wanted to talk about my experience getting to like, like, talk to him, 'cause this is, like, a very, like, interesting predicament that he's in. Think about this. Six weeks ago, he found this out. So in the six weeks, he moved his house, he sold his home and got a new home closer to the doctor that he's going.
- SPShaan Puri
Mm.
- SPSam Parr
Uh, he did, like, a $400,000 fundraiser, which was amazing. He, like, got his will and all of his estate stuff together, and he's gone to, like, all these, um, like, doctor's appointments, like so many of them. And I remember, like, talking to him yesterday, and I was like, "Dude, you've gone through so much. Like, this is so heavy." And, uh, and he was telling me a little bit about it, and I... My initial reaction when I heard all of this, I felt, like, extreme sadness, partially because Ben's a Mormon. So Ben has lung cancer, and it's in his spine and his brain, but it started as lung cancer, and he has never smoked, he has never drank, he has really never done anything bad in his life. Uh, and I felt like, I felt like, uh, like we have an agreement with the universe where we put good in and we should get good out, and I was like, "This agreement has been broken." And I felt, like, pretty, like, pissed about it. And, uh, yeah, I felt very angry. But then, like, I started, like, seeing how he was reacting to all this stuff, and, like, I would put myself in that shoes. I'm like, "All right. Six weeks ago in June, I find out that I have this illness. Like, how do I react?" And I was like, "I would be... I would go insane. I, I would be so sad. I would be so depressed." It was just, like, crazy how calm he was. And what's interesting is that Ben has a podcast called How to Take Over the World, which is about, like, how great leaders become great. And I was thinking about that, and he had this, uh, journal with him, and it was... On the title of this journal was zero to 365. And I was like, "What's this?" He was like, "I have a journal where I'm gonna document every single day, and my goal is to fill this whole thing out. It may not happen, but I'm gonna work my hardest to fill this out and make it 365 days, and I pray that there's a sequel to this journal so my kids can, like, read this. But if I can't do it and I meet my maker sooner than I intend to or I want to, I'm gonna be really excited about it." And I remember, like, thinking, like, I listen to his podcast all the time on, like, how to be great, and I listen to all these podcasts on how to be great. We just did one on, like, how to be great. And I was thinking, I was like, "What's crazy is how much dignity and integrity and bravery this guy is facing this." And I was like, me or you or hopefully and everyone listening, the odds are that none of us will s- face, like, a tragedy like this. But I was thinking, I was like, in my day-to-day life, like, I react to things sometimes in such a horrible way, like, so negatively and, uh, so, like, not being positive or I'm letting little things bother me or little things distract me from what's important. But I was like, "I really should change that because I hope I never face anything like he's facing." But what I've noticed knowing Ben for a few years is he's always been, like, a pretty stoic, brave person. And I'm like, "These little things that I face every single day, they can prepare me for something horrible, and I hope that horrible thing never happens. And if it doesn't, at least I will have, like, responded to, like, my day-to-day life in a way that a great man would."
- SPShaan Puri
Hmm.
- SPSam Parr
Because what's interesting is, like, seeing him, like, journal about this, and he was like, "Show me a little of the journal." In my head, I was like, "I'm seeing, like, a great man be great in real time and respond to, like, the worst thing on Earth in the most dignified, wise, and, like, the best way I've ever seen," and it inspired me so much.
- SPShaan Puri
Hmm.
- SPSam Parr
And I was just like, "What good can I take from this? How can I be great even if I don't face, like, a tragedy or, like, if I just live a boring life? Like, how can I be great on a day-to-day basis?"
- SPShaan Puri
Wow. Yeah. That's a great... I mean, I'm, I... That's a great way of putting it. Um, couple of things that came up. The first is, you know, if you haven't listened already, go listen to his podcast where he announced it. I mean, I, I listened to that, I probably listened to that two or three times. I listened the first time myself. I listened a second time when my mom was in the car 'cause I wanted her to hear 'cause I just thought his entire attitude towards the situation, towards what is, you know, a very devastating sort of piece of news i- is, is you have every right to be sad. You have every right to be mad. You have every r- every right to feel, uh, you know, any of the feelings you wanna feel, and he kind of had such a different perspective. It made me think a couple of things. The first was, man, um, you know, I haven't been a religious person in my life, and I think it's 'cause the way my, you know, just my, my logical brain is sort of like, "Well, I don't know. There's no evidence." You know? Like, there, it's like literally, like, the definition of, like, you know, faith is kind of like believing without evidence. And I've always respected religion, but I've never felt it. Uh, but when I saw his response and the way he was like, you know, "I'm excited to meet my maker," and if, you know, "If God's calling me, then that's..." You know, his, the, the way it was serving him, I was like, wow, this is the, this is the, the, these are the rewards for living with, like, so strong faith is that even when the worst news hits, even when, and when anybody else would feel, you know, sorry for themselves, um, you know, he f- he took it very, very differently, and it was, like, such a foundational thing for him. So I, I thought that was-
- SPSam Parr
He said excited. He told me, and I think he said in the pod, he goes, "I'm..." He goes, "I can be excited about this." And I thought that was like
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah, that's un-
- SPSam Parr
So good
- SPShaan Puri
... unbelievable. Um, so I thought that was the first thing was, like, really highlighted, like, the virtue and the value of, like, being a person of faith and how, like, you know, I've, in my own life, not... I've had the luxury of not having to have that.
- SPSam Parr
Yeah.
- SPShaan Puri
'Cause life goes pretty well without it for me, right? Like, without having to, to have faith in, in certain things. Um, so I thought that was, that, that really stood out. The second was-
- SPSam Parr
I think you nailed it
- SPShaan Puri
... the difference, you know, his podcast is about Napoleon and Caesar and these complicated men who achieve, who conquered. I think, you know, it's how to take over the world. It's about conquerors. It's about the, the, the world shapers,
- 42:52 – 46:26
achieving greatness vs being great
- SPShaan Puri
and there's a big difference between achieving greatness and being great. What Ben is doing right now is greatness, but it's being great, not achieving-
- SPSam Parr
Yeah
- SPShaan Puri
... something. And I think there's a huge difference, and I think for myself and most people, we don't really split those out, and it, it's very easy to set goals. And, you know, I remember being young and being like, "I wanna be Forbes 30 Under 30." This was before it became, like, you know, the FBI watch list. But I, I remember thinking, like, "That would be a great achievement. I wanna have a million dollars in my bank account. I wanna have this. I wanna have that," when I was nin- 19, 20 years old, and it's like, it was all about achieving. And the two people we've talked about, Ramon and Ben, they're great examples of being great, living day to day in a great way. He's really showing his greatness, uh, you know-
- SPSam Parr
Oh, absolutely
- SPShaan Puri
... in, in the hardest time, which is when, when it, when it, when it matters, when it counts, when it's real. And then, yeah, like, you know, I just hope that there's something, you know, in the, maybe the age of AI, maybe there's some, some way that, you know, with the best doctors, with the tech, with the belief, with everything, that, um, you know, he does all right, so-
- SPSam Parr
Yeah, and he's, he's-
- SPShaan Puri
... we're, we're rooting for him
- SPSam Parr
... he's, um, he, um, he, like, the Bryan Johnsons and Andrew Hubermans of the world, like, they, like, opened up their Rolodex, and they put him in touch with all these people, and he's doing all this, like, the traditional stuff and some experimental stuff. And, uh, yesterday he was like, "I feel really good. I feel better than I have in a long time."
- SPShaan Puri
Yeah.
- SPSam Parr
So, um, uh, it's looking good, but I, the reason why I wanted to bring this up on My First Million, because I don't think we say this, uh, this explicitly enough, but we have said it before, which is we talk about, like, being rich here, and we try to say a rich life, and we try hard to, like, let people know that this isn't just about money. It's just that, it's, it's about defining what life is, um, worth living and how it, how it can be rich for you. And I just wanna reiterate that, like, the million in My First Million doesn't necessarily mean dollars, but it means, like, the first, like, unit of richness that you can have in your life. And so that's sort of my public s- service announcement, but also, like, some of the things that I've learned in talking with him.
- SPShaan Puri
Mm-hmm. Well, I, I'm glad you shared that. Uh, Ben, we're rooting for you, man. Um, yeah, w- he's part of the, he's part of the MFM family. He's, well, he's our producer for what? Like a y- a year or two, something like that? Um-
- SPSam Parr
Yeah
- SPShaan Puri
... he had his podcast, and we met. We met through, you h- you've put me onto his podcast. You were like, "Dude, I've been listening to this thing. It's amazing." Then I remember going to the airport, and I was listening to his Edison episode, and it's a three-parter, and I drove to the airport, listened to part one, drove back, listened to part two, and then I just went for an extra drive to listen to part three. [laughs] And I was like, "Wow, this is amazing." And I called him, and I was like, "Dude, who are you? What's your story?" And then we brought him in. He became our producer, which helped him pay the bills while he was getting his podcast kind of, like, more and more off the ground. Then it was time for him to kind of, like, focus on his pod. We wished him well, and, you know, still wishing him well. So Ben, get, get well, man. We, uh, we're all rooting for you.
- SPSam Parr
Yes. It was a very, the, I hope, listener, I hope you don't take this as sad, and, uh, I'm sure Ben's gonna hear this, but it was the sh- I, I, I, I wanna leave on a, on a, on a inspirational note, not, not sadness. So I hope you guys dug it, and, uh, we'll end there. That's it. That's the pod. [upbeat music]
Episode duration: 46:26
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Transcript of episode p80UFZeAAos
