Marketing Lessons from Jingles, Candy Crush, and Betting Sites

Sam Parr 0:00 All right, I've got a thing I wanna fill you in on, and this is something I've been thinking about lately, and I think that you actually... You're gonna bring more application to this topic than I am. And so it's my theory, but I wanna hear how you would apply this idea that I have.

Shaan Puri 0:14 All right, hit me.

Sam Parr 0:15 So did you see that blonde hair woman, she had that song that was like, "Looking for a man in finance." Six four whatever.

Shaan Puri 0:22 Six four?

Sam Parr 0:22 Yeah, what was it? Uh, what was it?

Shaan Puri 0:23 [laughs] Oh, blasphemy. Six five, bro.

Sam Parr 0:26 Six five. It was-

Shaan Puri 0:27 Trust fund

Sam Parr 0:27 ... finance-

Shaan Puri 0:27 Six, five

Sam Parr 0:28 ... trust fund, six, five. Yeah.

Shaan Puri 0:29 Trust fund.

Sam Parr 0:29 Blue eyes or whatever.

Shaan Puri 0:31 Dude, have I seen that? Has there been 10 minutes in my house where either me or my daughter is not singing that song? [laughs] My four-year-old daughter.

Sam Parr 0:38 And by the way-

Shaan Puri 0:39 Uh-

Sam Parr 0:39 ... it hits very different when your daughter says it. My dad hormones kicked in-

Shaan Puri 0:41 [laughs]

Sam Parr 0:42 ... and I was like, "You ain't looking for... What are you looking for? You're looking for your Barbie, your toys. Get- You're looking for Legos, is what you're looking for." [upbeat music] There was really funny follow-ups where people are like, "Let's do the math on that, by the way. How many men are- are six, five?" It's like 0.1%.

Shaan Puri 1:03 Right.

Sam Parr 1:03 How many people live in New York City? How many have a, have a trust fund? And it was like, you know, and they're single. It was like 20 people.

Shaan Puri 1:08 There was like seven guys left. [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:10 Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty funny. But that got me thinking, and before I tell you exactly what it is, I have to ask you a question. Do you know your mother's or father's cell phone number by heart?

Shaan Puri 1:22 I do not.

Sam Parr 1:23 So for the life of me, I couldn't tell you my wife's phone number. I could tell you the, the area code, but I couldn't tell you her number-

Shaan Puri 1:29 [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:29 ... which is like a big deal. However, how many commercials from the '90s do you remember?

Shaan Puri 1:35 I want my baby back, baby back, baby back. I want my baby back. [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:38 Yeah. Or a Hot Pocket. Like, you remember some-

Shaan Puri 1:41 Right

Sam Parr 1:41 ... of these songs?

Shaan Puri 1:42 Five dollar. Five dollar. [laughs] We know what, we know what comes after, after that. I don't even have to have known you, right? You could be a complete stranger, but if I'm like, "Five dollar, five dollar," the guy's gonna say, "FootLong" at the end of that.

Sam Parr 1:53 So I got really interested in jingles, because I don't remember my wife's phone number. You don't remember your parents' phone numbers. But I can cite all these jingles. In fact, I follow Instagram accounts where it's like commercials from the '90s. The '90s, at... Because that's when we were kids, for, and for a lot of listeners, that was the heyday of these jingles and commercials. And in my opinion, we need to bring that back. And I wanna tell you, I'll give you a little, little bit, a short history of, of jingles. So in the '90s, something like 15% of commercials had jingles. Now, it's closer to 1%. So in the '20s, this company called General Mills came out with this thing called Wheaties, Wheaties Cereal, and it wasn't that big of a hit early on. And so they were like, "Let's write a song about it, and we're gonna create a commercial on the radio for Wheaties." And it's the first time that there was ever a dedicated commercial for a product. And the Wheaties wasn't really doing that well for the first three or four years. That song comes out in year five or so, it takes off, and now Wheaties is, like, a huge brand that we all know. And I just, I, I think that we need to do more of that. In the '90s, it kinda kicked ass, because when we were kids, there was what? Like 50 or 60 channels, so there was less channels. And the key to a jingle sticking and, like, is something we remember, is you need to hear it tons and tons of times. So when the Wheaties commercial came out, they ended up playing this, uh, song something like 300 times a day on a variety of radio stations. And, and back then, there weren't actually that many radio stations, and so repetition is important. However, once YouTube, Facebook, whatever came out, we have so many different channels. However, when you run Facebook ads, you can increase the repetition, the frequency I think they call it, right? You can increase frequency, and so you can see, like, am I hitting the same person 20, 30, 50 times? A lot of times with ads, it's just a photo, right? It's usually a photo for... Like, there's little silly trends. Like, for a long time it was pointing an arrow at something or zoom in on someone's face. There's, like, s- little silly trends that you'll see one successful brand do, everyone copies them.

Shaan Puri 3:57 Yeah. One we had was we would write the ad in the Notes app on iPhone, take a screenshot of that-

Sam Parr 4:02 Yeah

Shaan Puri 4:02 ... so it looked like someone was sharing a screenshot from Notes, but it was actually just an ad.

Sam Parr 4:06 Yes. And I remember reading or seeing this short video. It was launched at Sundance, actually. It was, like, a featurette in 2016. Maybe you saw this. But it was about people who have Alzheimer's, and they were, like, really bad. You know, they're elderly, have Alzheimer's, and they, they were just out of it all the time. And so these, these doctors played music that the, the people would've listened to when they were in their 20s and 30s, and all of a sudden it clicks. And they start singing the song, and they're like, "Oh, I remember this song. I was in the Army doing this," or whatever, "and that's when I met my wife." And then, and then they, like, have the next three, four, five minutes of, like, speaking normal. And it kinda, like, made me realize music is really important for that reason, but particularly for advertising brands and products. And I've been trying to think about, what does a jingle have that makes it work? And so I have it down to a few things, and this is a little bit for the modern-day jingle, what it needs. The first thing that I think it needs is it needs a little bit of cringiness. I think with ads, we be like, "This needs to be cool." Like, it needs to be a little bit overly cringe. The, the second thing that you have to have is it has to be incredibly repetitive. For example, do you remember that song, "Don't you wanna Fanta, Fanta"?

Shaan Puri 5:18 Yeah. [laughs]

Sam Parr 5:18 "Don't you wanna..."

Shaan Puri 5:19 Yeah.

Sam Parr 5:19 Like, you need to say the brand many, many, many times.

Shaan Puri 5:22 Like Chiquita Banana.

Sam Parr 5:23 Yeah, so the Chiquita Banana ad is actually interesting. So that ad, it was, like, a sexy banana dressed up as, like, a Cuban lady dancer, and she was, like, singing and dancing, and it was all, and it was all about when do you know a banana is ready to eat.

Shaan Puri 5:36 Right.

Sam Parr 5:36 And so she was singing about, like, you can, "You should peel me back when you see a little bit of brown," like, whatever. It, it, it was kinda, like, sexualized and awesome. And that ad would play-

Shaan Puri 5:46 [laughs]

Sam Parr 5:46 ... hundreds of times a day. It was awesome. I love when people sexualize stuff, by the way. My friend Neville had a, had an ad for why you should buy this set of font from him, and he was like, "When I whisper Duranda, does it make you weak in the knees?"

Shaan Puri 5:59 [laughs]

Sam Parr 6:00 "If so, this is for you." And so I love when they do that. And then the last thing you need is a call to action. So do you remember the song where it's like-

Shaan Puri 6:07 Call J.G. Wentworth 877-CASH-NOW. [laughs] Do you remember that song? Yeah, you can remember full phone numbers when it comes- Yeah ... to a, a jingle, right? It was, you ca- where you, you started this by saying you can't remember your, your wife or your mom's number, but we can remember some company's phone number, 1-800-whatever, if they put it in a jingle. And so this whole kind of rant is I think we need to bring them back. Now, the problem is, is that I don't exactly have, like, a consumer brand to do this on. You do, and you work a little bit more consumer stuff. Why can't you do this for Hampton, by the way? I could, and I should, so that was a bullshit excuse. Yeah. Thank you. Do you see this working with your stuff in consumer? Well, I would say, in theory I'm all there with you, as in a jingle's work is a non, is a non-debatable statement. Would jingles work for my brand? Well, why not? Jingles work, so we're back to square one. Do jingles still work? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it still works. I think you might have to tweak the form factor, maybe make it a little shorter or whatever. You know, like, a McDonald's, like, n- what they do now is they have their whole commercial and then it's ba-da-ba-ba-ba, I'm loving it, right? Just, they just hit that at the end as, like, a little five-second hook at the end, which was shorter than maybe how, how jingles used to be where it was much more of the whole commercial. So I think there's maybe some tweaks that people are doing to them, but they, they for sure still work. So I'm with you. And I'm also with you that I'm surprised that they've declined because the brain has not changed. In fact, there's a thing I think people call the phonic loop or something like that, the phonetic loop. I don't know, I forgot ex- how they call it. But it's like the, the people who study the brain and the ear, and there's, like, neurologists. There's even somebody called, like, a musicologist. They're basically trying to figure out why is it that when we teach kids that they learn easier through nursery rhymes? Yeah. There's, like, a nursery rhyme to, like, learn your, your home address. Like, have you ever seen those? Dude, I could tell you Caracas, Venezuela, Lima, Peru, right? I could tell you, like- Yeah ... s- the capitals of South America that I haven't thought about in 30 years. But when I was six years old, some teacher taught us a song, right? Or all of the states, right? The, you know, I could teach my daughter the states much faster than I could teach her numbers because I could turn it into a song. And so there's something in this, right? And I think they call it earworms. It's basically the, what they call it when the, a small repetitive snippet of a song or a slogan or a jingle just gets stuck in your ear, uh, right? And, and it, that's called an earworm. And so using this to improve recall, improve memory, and even make your brand associated with something that's kinda fun or u- upbeat or positive definitely has value. Now, the question is why, why don't I or you or any of us kinda modern marketers use this? And I think really most people would say, "Well, it doesn't work anymore. The form fa- form factor changed. People got over it," blah, blah, blah. I don't think any of that's true. I think it's just, like, fashion. I think it's marketing fashion trends. I think it's out of, out of vogue right now, and as soon as somebody brings it back in, it will become a thing again. Remember DatPiff? That was where, like, mixtapes were. It was, like, rappers. [laughs] Yeah. So th- this was, I... It was, like, Lil Wayne would put out, like, a rap a day on DatPiff- [laughs] ... and he would just churn these suckers out. I think you need a certain creative type of person to be able to do this, but we can definitely churn these out in a relatively fast way and see what works, which is different than a commercial. But one of the reasons why I think it went away is so the things that you and I liked when we were nine or eight years old, by the time we're 15 to 25, that's like, "That's lame. That's no longer cool." But then we get in our 30s and we're like, "Oh, I remember that. That was awesome," you know? "That was so cool." Like, it's kinda like the feeling that you get when you see a Surge, like a Surge drink, like a soda. [laughs] You're like, "Oh, I remember that. That was so awesome. I remember when I was a kid," and you get, like, this nostalgia. And so I think what we can do is look at all the past things that worked well with the brands that we liked when we were younger. I really think you can replicate them within, like, the, the law and actually not copy. And the reason I think that is because the $5 Footlong song and McDonald's songs, they're coming back, and so they're reusing a lot of these songs now because once your customer base is a bit older, you can reuse the same stuff and it becomes cool again- Right ... because it's nostalgic. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba, I'm subscribed to My First Million on YouTube. [laughs] There we go. [laughs] Cool. We can workshop that. [laughs] If you want your ad to be memorable, which we all do, then using one of the most sticky things, which is, like, a, a jingle, it's compr- it compresses several things together, right? A feeling, a positioning, right? $5 Footlong, Nationwide is on your side, right? Like, it compresses a, a position plus a, a feeling into four seconds, five seconds, seven seconds, and in a package that is now easily transmissible, right? You can sing it. You can hum it. You could te- say, tell it to another person, as well as, uh, sticks with you. So, like, of course, that's a, that's a good thing if you can do it. All right, guys, really quick. So back when I was running The Hustle, we had this premium newsletter called Trends. The way it worked was we hired a ton of analysts, and we created this sorta playbook for researching different companies and ideas and emerging trends to help you make money and build businesses. Well, HubSpot did something kinda cool. So they took this playbook that we developed and we gave to our analysts, and they turned it into an actionable guide and a resource that anyone can download, and it breaks down all the different methods that we use for spotting upcoming trends, for spotting different companies that are gonna explode and grow really quickly. So if you wanna stay ahead of the game and you wanna find cool business ideas or different niches that most people have no idea they exist, this is the ultimate guide. So if you wanna check it out, you can see the link down below in the description. Now, back to the show.

Shaan Puri 11:37 I got something that's kind of interesting. Totally different angle, but I think you'll like it. Are you familiar with Polymarket? Is it, is it gambling for crypto? Well, that's one way of looking at it. It's a prediction market, which is- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... sort of- That's what I mean ... an AO Livanis situation with gambling and, uh, you know, uh, uh, uh, reframing gambling. But it actually is a way to go bet on a prediction that you believe will happen. So if I go to Polymarket right now, I will see the top bet. Two, $237 million has been bet on who will be the winner of the 2024 presidential race, and right now Trump is a 61% Joe Biden, 19%, it, you know, odds. Kamala is 10%, et cetera. And so you could see for any idea you have, there could be a betting market for it. So like, you know, you can go to sports, and right now the, I think the Euro Soccer Cup is happening right now, and Spain is the top, top favorite bet with 34%, or you can bet on Wimbledon right now. But you can also bet in, like, scientific things. Like, there's a bet right now, what will be the June 2024 temperature increase? And it's like, you know, more than 1.09, less than 1.09. You know, you can bet on will this hurricane hit the United States, yes or no? And right now, that bet has played out, where, like, you could see that when it started, it only had a 18% chance of yes. N- right now, it's a 99% chance, which means it's ab- about to hit or almost certainly hit. So that bet has played out or playing out right now.

Sam Parr 12:59 And you could see the top bettors. So there's a guy named [laughs] RevengeTour1984 who's bet $2.3 million this week.

Shaan Puri 13:07 His... If you go to his profile, so he's the top g- bettor on the platform right now. So he's got 1.69 million, 1.66 million, uh, in bets placed, basically. His, his positions that are out there. He's got a P&L, where, where his profit and loss is. He's up about a million dollars so far on Polymarket, and he's traded $169 million worth of, of bets. So like right now, for example, he's got a bet out, will JD Vance win the 2024 Republican VP nomination? He bet it when it was at six cents. It's currently at 31 cents. He could just sell that position today and bank the profit, even though it hasn't happened yet. So you can win even if your thing doesn't win, as long as the odds go up. So a couple of years ago, I got on Polymarket, and I got really addicted to this thing. [laughs] Every day I was going, and I basically had, like, a $10,000 slush fund that I was just betting on Polymarket, and I think I ended up making-

Sam Parr 13:58 That's insane

Shaan Puri 13:58 ... five or six grand, and then I cashed out because now you can't do it in the United States. They, like, ruled against it, basically. So all of this volume, this... They're doing about 50 million a month in volume, which is huge. Probably the most popular crypto app right now is Polymarket, [smacks lips] and so they've done 400 million this year in betting volume. So they're on pace for almost a billion dollars of betting volume this year.

Sam Parr 14:23 What did you bet on?

Shaan Puri 14:24 I used to bet on all kinds of things. So I would bet on, like, tech stuff. So you could bet, like, will Tesla stock be above this price in Jul- on July 31st? It's, like, easier than buying the stock was just to go and bet, do you think it'll be here? Or will they announce this at this time? I was betting on sports stuff, so I would bet just, like, a game. Oh, there's a game on a Tuesday night, and I could just bet here easier than I could bet, uh, you know, at a sportsbook. 'Cause the way this thing worked was you would just sign in with your MetaMask wallet. You didn't have to do KYC. You didn't have to do a bunch of things.

Sam Parr 14:51 Who makes the odds?

Shaan Puri 14:53 There's no b- there's no odds maker, so this is, like, a, uh, what's called a, um, a automated market maker. So basically the, [smacks lips] the bet gets created, and then it's based on the betting volume. So if more people start betting no, then the odds of no go down because that's a more popular bet. If everybody thinks yes, then buying yes will have less upside for you. Most of these don't work like an order book. There's not a buyer and seller. It's a, it's the same way that a lot of the, the DEXs work or the, uh, NFT platforms work, where it's, it's a AMM.

Sam Parr 15:23 A lot of the bets are weird. So [laughs] will Taylor Swift be pregnant in 2024?

Shaan Puri 15:29 Yeah. 30, 30% chance, right? Or something like that.

Sam Parr 15:32 21% chance. Will Andrew Tate be found guilty of human trafficking in 2024? But then there's weird things. Like, will Trump say the word MOG in 2024? I don't know what that word is, M-O-G.

Shaan Puri 15:42 Right.

Sam Parr 15:42 But can't he just say that then and win the bet? And-

Shaan Puri 15:46 So that's one of the controversies of betting markets, is that, uh... Okay, the easy example is, oh, wow, if I'm Trump, I could theoretically go place a big bet and then just say the word. But there's a couple problems with that. One, the more I... Like, let's say something like that, it probably has very thin volume. So for example, uh, right now-

Sam Parr 16:05 $24,000.

Shaan Puri 16:07 Yeah, $24,000. So if he went and tried to bet $100,000, he would swing the odds himself to yes to the point where it wouldn't really be worth it. There's not much action on the other side. So y- basically, the yeses win the money from the nos, and the nos win the money from the yeses, depending on how the bet plays out, right? There's no, there's no third party that's involved. So you would have to do it in one of these that has, like, really big volume-

Sam Parr 16:27 [laughs] This is so funny

Shaan Puri 16:28 ... if you wanted to make a lot of money.

Sam Parr 16:30 It says, uh, will Travis Kelce go for ring number four and get engaged this year? [laughs]

Shaan Puri 16:35 [laughs] Yeah, exactly. Uh, there's, you know, Elon tweets. How many tweets will we have this month? [laughs] There's, uh, will T- will TikTok get banned in the US in 2024? Right now, only an 8% chance. So if you thought that TikTok was gonna get banned, if you're Pelosi, you could go and start betting yes. But that bet only has 29,000 of volume, so you can't bet too much. You can't make too much of a profit on something like that. The controversy, the thing that people have always said about prediction markets is that prediction markets become-

Sam Parr 16:58 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 16:59 ... assassination markets, meaning if there was a bet that, like, will this person win or will this person live, and let's say there was hundreds of millions of dollars on the line, you've inadvertently created a giant bounty to go and assassinate somebody. And this is the, one of the, one of the controversies around prediction markets, is that it could become, um, you know, problematic in that way. But these are not new. Like, crypto is a new way of doing it, but these have been around for a long time. Like, historically, people felt that prediction markets were more accurate than, uh, polls, right? So let's say you wanted to say, you know, "Who's gonna win the election?" They would go to a poll. You have a very small sample size. People might say one thing and then do another, which is, like, what happened with, uh, when Trump won in, I think, 2016, was he was, um, polling far less than h- than what actually happened when p- people went to the ballot booth, because they didn't wanna admit where the, where they stood. Whereas prediction markets, because you're putting money on the line, it's just more predictive. It's more accurate versus just general polling. And so this used to be a really popular thing. There was, in fact, even, like, on the stock market, you could go and bet this way. Wall Street was, like, a hub for, uh, for prediction bets, but then after World War II, there was kind of a social stigma around it. Newspapers stopped quoting it, and- They, they shifted to polls, but I think the, I think it's swinging back where we're gonna go away from polls and back to prediction markets. And so my prediction of this whole thing is that Polymarket is gonna be massive, that, um, in this presidential election it's gonna have just, like, a huge run-up this year because already you can see that when everyb- when anybody is writing about the odds of something, about, let's say, the election, they're referencing Polymarket, and they're embedding Polymarket in their articles. And so-

Sam Parr 18:45 They're doing that now, or you think they will?

Shaan Puri 18:47 It's already happening. It's already happening. It's why it's got this huge surge. I think a couple months ago they had o- over 100 million in betting volume, and it was because it's made for TV. It's made to be embedded in articles. And in fact, I think they should take this further and make their little, their little betting widget much easier to share and much easier to embed inside of articles, inside of news, news things. So 'cause they're gonna need to quote what the predictions are around interest rates, around presidential, uh, stuff. It's just gonna continue to grow that way. And so I think Polymarket is actually sort of a media company, a, a decentralized media company, where it has really interesting data that every other media company is gonna wanna reference, and that's gonna just drive this surge. And they've also had just really viral bets. So right now, one of the, the viral bets is obviously the presidential election stuff. But when... Do you remember when the idiots went down to the Titanic in the submersible?

Sam Parr 19:36 [laughs] Yeah.

Shaan Puri 19:38 That was one of the most viral bets.

Sam Parr 19:40 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 19:40 I think they had, like, $60 million bet on that one thing of, like, what's gonna happen with the submersible [laughs] . So, you know, they, they can go viral. Like, just yesterday it had five million in volume, and so business is booming for Polymarket.

Sam Parr 19:53 Who started it, and when did it start?

Shaan Puri 19:55 It's this guy Shane, uh, Shane Coplin, I think is his name, and he started in 2020. So this is not a very old business. This is, you know, pretty, pretty recent. Three, four years it's been out. And, um, he... I think it's, like, his first thing. He, his LinkedIn, when I was on it earlier, was like, he was an intern at Rap Genius, he was an intern at some other place, and then he created Polymarket, and he's been doing that for four years now.

Sam Parr 20:18 Did they raise money?

Shaan Puri 20:19 Yeah, they just raised a big round. So it was pretty, it was pretty under the radar, and actually sort of, um, you know, seemed sort of sketchy before. Like, when I was betting on it, people, I remember, tell, like, were telling me, like, "What are you doing, dude? You, you put real money onto this thing?" And I was like, "Yeah, it's awesome." And they're like, "Who runs this? Is this legal?" And I was like, "I, I don't really know, you know. I, I'm not sure." It just, it looked like a very thin, thin app at the time. But they just raised $75 million from Founders Fund, and Joe Gebbia, and Vitalik, and a whole bunch of other heavy hitters, and so it's obviously become a lot more legitimized.

Sam Parr 20:55 I hate talking about gambling, because I'm, like... I don't wanna sound like my-farts-don't-smell type of guy or what, like, I'm better, but I am, because I hate gambling.

Shaan Puri 21:05 Yeah.

Sam Parr 21:05 Like, I don't, I don't like gambling, and I don't particularly love products that make it more popular, which is weird, because I have vices. Like, I love nicotine and shit like that, so I would be bummed if no one made that stuff. But I feel weird making this more popular. Do you know what I mean?

Shaan Puri 21:21 I understand. I don't know. Um, obviously I enjoy betting. I bet on many things. I have a bit of a betting problem, I would say [laughs] is the honest way of explaining it.

Sam Parr 21:29 Well, it's like, it's like porn. We consume it, but we're like, "You know, that's disgusting that you would do this, like, for a living."

Shaan Puri 21:35 [laughs] That's disgusting, z.

Sam Parr 21:39 Yeah [laughs] .

Shaan Puri 21:39 It's like, all right. So, but, but I, I, I think there is actually

Shaan Puri 21:43 a lot of value in this. So I think that the wisdom of the crowds has always been a phenomenon I've been interested in, and I think it's just a more pure form of information. Like, I think that it is very easy for the news to tell you one thing or random polls to be quoted and claimed. Like, I like things that are more ground truth, and I, I, I don't know. Like, more ground truth is a actual betting market on something. That is what people actually believe. And the wisdom of the crowd, it is very hard to beat the w- the wisdom of the crowds when it comes to betting.

Sam Parr 22:11 I don't, I don't know if I buy that yet, mostly because I'm ignorant to these predictive markets. In 2016, what did whatever existed before Polymarket, what did it say about the election?

Shaan Puri 22:24 Um, it wasn't as popular back then. So they... There's been, like, Auger and a couple other crypto prediction markets, but they were never mature enough. They didn't have enough volume, or the people that consumed it were only crypto de- degenerates. And so only crypto degenerates skewed one way. It's almost more like a poll in that case. So I'm not sure what they said then. All I know is that all of the polls were wrong. FiveThirtyEight was wrong. All of this sort of, like, data science around polling was so wrong during that. And I know that also that ev- the other unrelated data point is that one of the things that helped FTX take off back then was Sam Bankman-Fried was one of the first to put political bets on his platform, I think in 2020, and it was a big accelerant for FTX, was, um, letting people bet on election, election information back then. And people around the world wanted to bet, and so it was a way to attract a lot of liquidity to FTX at the time.

Sam Parr 23:17 What was his, like, philosophy, SBS philosophy? It was like... What was it called? Altruism?

Shaan Puri 23:23 Yeah, effective altruism.

Sam Parr 23:24 But doesn't him having betting on his website go against that?

Shaan Puri 23:28 No, not at all. Effective altruism doesn't mean no s- no sin, no vice. Effective altruism basically means make as much money as you ca- The, the highest impact way to give and contribute to the world is to first, like, do something that's gonna accumulate a huge amount of capital so you can reallocate it to good causes.

Sam Parr 23:45 Like getting them ad- like, addicted to things that they spend all their money on?

Shaan Puri 23:48 Like, if you're Sam Bankman-Fried, right, you're more, you are more value. Like, you, you have two choices. You could go work for a nonprofit or go volunteer in a soup kitchen and pour poor soup every day, but that's a pretty low leverage way to give, to contribute, versus if you become a billionaire and you give a, give away a billion dollars, you have done more good that way.

Sam Parr 24:07 Do you-

Shaan Puri 24:07 And so effective altruism is basically working for the purpose of accumulating as much capital to give away as possible. Now, in his case, he turned out to be, you know, a liar and a fraud on many accounts, right? So it's not I think he sort of tanked the brand of effective altruism, which probably is a little unfair. He also tanked the brand of crypto, which is a little unfair. People are like, "Oh, crypto's a scam." It's like, no, this dude scammed crypto. He tricked... He lied to the crypto community. Basically, he was taking money and not... You know, somebody would go try to buy Bitcoin on his platform, and instead of buying Bitcoin, he would just tell them it- he bought Bitcoin, take the money, and do something else with it altogether. He was, he was deceitful is very different than, than saying crypto is deceitful.

Sam Parr 24:45 The New York Times had this podcast the other day about this woman who got addicted to DraftKings or FanDuel or wha- I, I think they're the same thing. And what [laughs] she told this story about how she was, like, a $150,000 a year earner, and she got addicted to it. And the, one of the reasons why she got addicted to it was, A, she just is, is an addict, whatever. But, B, they assigned a, an account manager to you, just like you do when you wanna upsell software.

Shaan Puri 25:13 Yep.

Sam Parr 25:13 And they're like, "Hey, I see you're, uh, spending on this. We've got this new game called this, this, and this. I'm willing to give you, like, a $500 credit in order to get your, uh... You can wet your whistle a little bit and, and try this out." And she was, like, telling this story, and I, I'm listening to this. I'm like, "Hey, that's the same tactics we, we did to, like, get people to buy ads." Like, you, like, say-

Shaan Puri 25:32 Totally

Sam Parr 25:32 ... "Like, hey, you know, you're a new customer. We'll hook you up this time, and hopefully you get addicted to us, you wanna give us more money." But they are doing that with this woman when she was in... She eventually got into $350,000 of debt, and she wa- so she, she got divorced. It was, like, a whole issue, and she was like, "They're still e-" Like, "I, I... They're still sending me emails trying to get me to, like, try these new games, and I wanna try them so bad."

Shaan Puri 25:52 [laughs]

Sam Parr 25:52 "Like, they sound so awesome."

Shaan Puri 25:53 [laughs] Oh, God.

Sam Parr 25:55 And so, it... Kind of this whole online gambling thing kinda left a bad taste in my mouth, particularly because

Sam Parr 26:00 now you watch, I... UFC is the only sports-

Shaan Puri 26:02 Oh, by the way, same thing happens in, like, you know, bunch of different fields, but also just the entire mobile gaming market, things that look very harmless, Candy Crush. These, all these ga- all the mobile gaming companies work the same way. They're all hunting for whales. The whole business is you go try to acquire 100,000 users, and you're looking for the few users that are gonna spend $100,000 inside your app. And, uh-

Sam Parr 26:23 Are people doing that with games where they'll spend 100 grand?

Shaan Puri 26:26 Of course, yeah. There's, I mean, Candy Crush and, and, the, the entire, like, casual mobile gaming thing that's looks like these silly innocuous free-to-play games, they're based on there's w- you know, women in the Midwest who are gonna dump tens of thousands of dollars into each game that they get hooked on. And those are what they work for. They work for whales. They're trying to find whales. Whales are obviously the most profitable customer. And in that, you can't even win anything, right? It's not even like gambling where there's nothing to... There's no... There's money... There's no money to be made in it. It's just money to be spent.

Sam Parr 26:55 You had friends in the gaming industry or, uh, or, or at least you knew them better than my friends, uh, who work in the gaming industry. How many times did they say they had a customer that would spend 50 or $100,000 on a game?

Shaan Puri 27:06 What do you mean how many time? I, that's, uh, that's small. There's-

Sam Parr 27:08 Like, uh, I guess, like, I guess how, how big is the scale of, of people willing to spend that much?

Shaan Puri 27:14 It's very large, dude. This is, I mean, this is how they make... These games make, like, a billion dollars in revenue, right? [laughs] So there, there are a lot of whales.

Sam Parr 27:20 I thought it was, like, everyone buying, like, a $20 a month thing, not-

Shaan Puri 27:23 No, no, no. It's most players spend nothing, right? Vast majority of players will spend nothing. Then there's a segment of people that are gonna spend a small amount. And there's a very small segment of people that are gonna spend a huge amount. And the total thing blends together where you're like, "Oh, our, our per, our average revenue per customer is $7 or $10," but it's not every customer spends 7 to $10. It's that most spend zero, a few will spend $23 on average, and then a few will spend $23,000, right? That's more of how it l- how it looks when you look at the distribution of these things.

Sam Parr 27:53 That's insane.

Shaan Puri 27:54 Ben used to work at FanDuel, and he was like, "Yeah, dude, part of the program I had"... I think he was, like, employee 30 or 40 at, at FanDuel. He's like, "You know, I basically oversaw this program" or he was, like, a associate with some program that was, like, the whale VIP white glove service. It's like, oh, if you're betting and losing this much money, or winning, or even winning, you, it's just, you'll eventually lose it. So if you're betting a certain volume, guess what? We- it's the Super Bowl. We wanna fly you out. You're gonna, you're gonna come visit. Hey, we're in New York, we wanna invite you to this private dinner. And there was a whole VIP program, white, white glove program where, hey, we got you tickets to this game. And they're gonna make you feel like a rock star. Uh, they're gonna make you feel good.

Sam Parr 28:27 Is it just a bunch of other degenerates sitting around the dinner table like, "Hey, what do you wanna bet that the meal's gonna be chicken?"

Shaan Puri 28:32 Yeah, and these are willing participants. These are adults. Now, I, I, I would say obviously some people ruin themselves. They get addicted to gambling, just like people get addicted to everything, social media and drugs and vape and, you know, there's a ton of things that people get addicted to, and it's not good for them. I, I definitely agree with that. That is, that is for sure a thing, and you will always see news about that, 'cause, A, it's happening, and, B, it's makes for good news. Big company ruined this person's life, right? That's always gonna be a thing. Guess what? Robinhood is designed the same way. Robinhood is literally designed like a mobile game to get you addicted to trading, to get you to try to trade as much as you can. They make money every time you make a trade. They don't make money by you buying a low-cost index fund and holding it for 20 years. They make money by getting you to buy Robinhood gold to trade options and be day trading. And so Robinhood, which is this, like, name of, like, the we're gonna steal from the rich and give to the poor is doing the exact opposite. It's basically steal from the dumb and give to themselves and, and that's, that's what Robinhood is.

Sam Parr 29:28 So I'm gonna place a bet on this. I'm gonna-

Shaan Puri 29:32 [laughs]

Sam Parr 29:32 Uh, that's what I'm saying. I'm gonna bet that Justin Bieber's gonna be having a baby boy.

Shaan Puri 29:36 You, you can't. You're in the US. You're not gonna be able to make a bet.

Sam Parr 29:39 You ca- And how do they, how do they, how do they track that?

Shaan Puri 29:43 I think it's just, like, your IP address right now. I don't know what else they do.

Sam Parr 29:47 God, this is horrible and awesome. I like this one. I can't believe this exists. That's pretty wild.

Shaan Puri 29:52 All right. Let's take a quick break. I wanna tell you about Wander. So it's summer, planning summer vacations, and if you're gonna try to get away, one of the best ways to get away is through Wander. They have amazing luxury homes that you can stay in. It's sorta like staying in a five-star hotel but- But it's a home. So you get kinda the best of the home vibe and the luxury amenities and turnkey experience of a hotel, um, all in one. So check out Wander. They have so many cool locations. I'm taking one trip on Wander in about a month or so to Tahoe. They have a really cool property there. But go to wander.com/mfm and just browse. You can just see, like, really amazing places to stay that make for great family trips or even, like, corporate off-sites are great because these locations are so baller. So check this out, and if you go to wander.com/mfm, you can enter in to get a free trip giveaway. So they're g- they're giving away t- a trip to one listener, as well as if you download the app, you, um, you get $300 of free travel credit. So that's pretty awesome. So check it out, wander.com/mfm.

Sam Parr 30:49 All right, what do you wanna do one more thing? What do you got?

Shaan Puri 30:51 [laughs] Okay, I wanna do one thing. You said something earlier about jingles, catchy things, and, uh, I was sitting in a meeting, and

Shaan Puri 31:00 I was sitting in a meeting, and there was somebody who was prolific. Like, if, uh, Kendrick Lamar wore a suit and sold B2B software, that was this guy. This guy had lyrics. He was lyrical with his corporate slang, and it got me thinking about epic corporate slang and some of my favorite greatest hits of corporate slang. And I just started thinking, "You know, we need some more." And so I wanted to play a l- little game with you. So I'd like to play a game. I texted you this. I said, "I want you to think of this. Think of corporate slang that doesn't exist, but it should."

Sam Parr 31:30 All right.

Shaan Puri 31:30 Because we're innovators here on the podcast, and I wanna come up with some slang. I think it would be a, a fun claim to fame if we could just make something stick, uh, with corporate slang. So I, I say we go back and forth like a rap battle with this is corporate slang that doesn't exist, but it should.

Sam Parr 31:45 All right. You have more than me. I didn't re- I, y- I, I came with about four or five. You, you have a bunch of them. This is right in your wheelhouse.

Shaan Puri 31:51 [laughs]

Sam Parr 31:51 So let's see what we can do, though.

Shaan Puri 31:52 All right. Let me get my phone. All right. So the first one is gonna be [laughs] this is the first one. One man's Thanksgiving is another man's Thursday. [laughs] And this is for any situation where you are, uh, when somebody's really excited about something that you, to you, is just normal or even lame, but hey, it's their Thanksgiving. It might just be Thursday to you, but it's their Thanksgiving. So it's kind of a way to throw shade in a corporate setting when somebody's overly excited about something that's actually just normal or average, and you just say, "Hey, man, one man's Thanksgiving is another man's Thursday." And you just plant that seed, and you just leave it with them, and they'll realize later that they just, they just had shade thrown at them.

Sam Parr 32:32 And that's a phrase that you need to use, and when someone is like, "Wait, what?" And you're like, "What, you don't know what that means?"

Shaan Puri 32:39 You know what they say.

Sam Parr 32:39 I do not... Uh, yeah, like y- [laughs]

Shaan Puri 32:41 It's just one of those things they say. [laughs]

Sam Parr 32:43 Yeah, like when I was a kid, I thought it was, uh, go out there and break an egg, not go out there and break a leg. [laughs]

Shaan Puri 32:49 [laughs]

Sam Parr 32:51 You know what I mean? So we'll make that a phrase. Or, uh, instead of cat-like reflexes, I thought it was Cadillac reflexes. Uh-

Shaan Puri 32:58 [laughs]

Sam Parr 33:01 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 33:04 This is not even corporate slang. These are just, um, like stutters that you had. [laughs]

Sam Parr 33:09 Yeah. Yeah. So I used to say for years, like, you know, "Go out there, have fun, break an egg." Uh, [laughs]

Shaan Puri 33:15 [laughs]

Sam Parr 33:15 So, uh, we... That's how you need to use this phrase. Um, all right, I have got one. All right, we're gonna call it bubble wrap, as in when someone... Like, do you have any employees that are, uh, overly sensitive, and when you bring-

Shaan Puri 33:26 Oh

Sam Parr 33:26 ... news to them, you have to be like, "How are we gonna phrase this?" So-

Shaan Puri 33:31 Oh, so it's like a verb

Sam Parr 33:31 ... we gotta, we gotta bubble wrap this? Yeah. Like, all right, we have to, we have to tell this guy about this thing, but we gotta bubble wrap his ass, and we gotta bubble wrap-

Shaan Puri 33:39 [laughs]

Sam Parr 33:39 ... this phrasing, and we gotta figure out how we can deliver this so it doesn't, like, totally crush him. Instead of just saying, uh, "Hey, we're not doing that anymore. Your idea sucked," we gotta bubble wrap it. So we gotta bubble wrap it.

Shaan Puri 33:50 Oh, okay, so it's actually, like, a, a... It's like, "I like what you're saying. You're right, but we're gonna need to bubble wrap that before it goes out."

Sam Parr 33:56 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shaan Puri 33:57 [laughs]

Sam Parr 33:57 So you have to say it in a more sensitive way not to, uh, freak, uh, a particular person out because that person, when you talk to them, you gotta bubble wrap them before you talk to them.

Shaan Puri 34:06 Right.

Sam Parr 34:06 So we're gonna call it bubble wrap.

Shaan Puri 34:07 Like, I like that one. That's, that's strong. All right, I got another one, Alohomora. So making email intros sucks. I hate doing it. It's like, "Oh, can you introduce me to this person?" I gotta say, "Hey, Bob, meet J- meet Shaan. He's, he's this guy, he's this guy." I'm s- I'm shortening it to one word. We're using the Harry Potter word Alohomora for the spell that just is, like, unlocking doors, so that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go to an email thread. I'm just gonna say, "Sam, Bob, Alohomora," b- voice. "Alohomora, fellas. Uh, I've unlocked the doors here."

Sam Parr 34:35 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 34:35 "Go on through." [laughs] And that's it. I'm shortening it to one thing.

Sam Parr 34:39 What, uh, what's that word from?

Shaan Puri 34:41 Harry Potter. It's a, it's the spell he uses to unlock any door.

Sam Parr 34:45 Oh my God. All right, that one's extra nerdy.

Shaan Puri 34:47 [laughs]

Sam Parr 34:47 Um, all right, I've got another one. All right, so you know how on the Google Calendar the default is typically 30 minutes?

Shaan Puri 34:55 Mm-hmm.

Sam Parr 34:56 I hate that. So we're gonna call this, or we're gonna say, um... So we're gonna use this word when it's like, "Hey, put something on my calendar, and let's syncstorm it." We're just gonna syncstorm it, so it's a... By default, it's a five-minute meeting. So let's just syncstorm. Uh, it, you know, it's... People say, like, "Let's, let's sync up," and it's always either-

Shaan Puri 35:13 Right

Sam Parr 35:13 ... default 30 or 60 minutes. Nah, fuck that. We're gonna syncstorm this. We're gonna get it done in just about four or five minutes.

Shaan Puri 35:19 [laughs]

Sam Parr 35:19 So hey-

Shaan Puri 35:20 Well-

Sam Parr 35:20 ... just put something on my calendar. Put a little syncstorm on my calendar, and we're gonna bang this out.

Shaan Puri 35:24 I love it because the other person's gonna have no idea what you mean by that, but it sounds like they're supposed to know. It's like, "Yeah, yeah, no problem. Love, love syncstorming. It's my, one of my favorite things to do." And they're gonna walk away and be like, "What the hell am I supposed to do here?" [laughs]

Sam Parr 35:35 We gotta syncstorm this son of a bitch. Don't, don't put this-

Shaan Puri 35:37 It's also nice because it's a way to, like... It's, it's the equivalent of dating, a first date, and being like... They're like, "Hey, let's grab dinner." And you're like, "Let's do drinks."

Sam Parr 35:47 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shaan Puri 35:47 Right? It's actually that. [laughs]

Sam Parr 35:50 Yeah, you gotta syncstorm it. Um, all right-

Shaan Puri 35:52 All right

Sam Parr 35:52 ... what do you have?

Shaan Puri 35:53 All right, we gotta crash the boards here. So this is a sports one that's, that's gonna be used in the corporate setting. So it's when you're emailing people, but you're not following up hard enough. So you're, you're, you're emailing a prospect. You're trying to do a sale, and you notice there's just no follow-up. There's no follow-up email. So either you could just use it, like, you know, when you're following up. You could be like, "Hey, I'm just crashing the boards here." Or you could tell your sales team and be like, "Hey, we really gotta crash the boards here, fellas." And they know, oh, that means we gotta really just follow up strong.

Sam Parr 36:19 I used to use the word blitzkrieg when referring to that.

Shaan Puri 36:23 [laughs]

Sam Parr 36:23 And then I realized that referencing, uh, World War I, World War II Germany and their-

Shaan Puri 36:28 Right

Sam Parr 36:28 ... military tactics probably wasn't the- the- the best thing. Uh, and so crashing the boards-

Shaan Puri 36:32 Yeah, you're a little too blond hair, blue-eyed to be using that one. [laughs]

Sam Parr 36:34 Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had to bubble, we had to bubble- bubble wrap blitzkrieg-

Shaan Puri 36:37 [laughs]

Sam Parr 36:37 ... and use crashing the boards.

Shaan Puri 36:38 Exactly. [laughs]

Sam Parr 36:40 That's pretty good.

Shaan Puri 36:41 You got another?

Sam Parr 36:41 Um, yeah. So, uh, let's do, um... All right. So you know how when you have a meeting, and oftentimes even if it's a good idea, you still... It turns into a vote a lot of times, uh, where it's like, "Look, not everyone thinks that's a good idea, so we're not gonna g- go with it," even though a lot of times the non-popular choice is the good one. And so what you do is you try to, like, be political and get people on your side before the meeting, uh, and so, like, they vote for your idea or whatever. We're gonna call that landsliding. Um, "Look, we're gonna have a meeting, but we gotta landslide this in advance."

Shaan Puri 37:15 [laughs]

Sam Parr 37:15 "And so we gotta get everyone to vote for our side, and we gotta landslide this meeting. This idea needs to get landslid."

Shaan Puri 37:20 [laughs]

Sam Parr 37:21 So we're gonna call it landslide.

Shaan Puri 37:23 That's powerful. I like that. All right, this is when you got an employee who it's sink or swim. You got somebody new, and you need to really f- figure out what they're made of. It's are we boiling eggs or potatoes here? And it's a way to ask about somebody what they're really made of. 'Cause when you... Like, a potato starts out really hard, but if you boil it, it gets soft, but an egg starts out soft, but if you apply some heat, it gets hard. And you want, you want eggs. You don't want potatoes in your company. And so that's, that's where you put that out there, and it's when times are getting tough and people are, are wilting. They're f- they're folding under the pressure, under the heat. You just gotta ask, are we boiling eggs or potatoes here?

Sam Parr 38:00 That's a good one. I think that's an old phrase from the South. Haven't I heard, like, grandpas say that? Have you ever heard that?

Shaan Puri 38:05 [laughs] I have not, but maybe I got... I- I've been told I have an old soul, so maybe that's, that's where that came from.

Sam Parr 38:10 That's a good one. Um, all right, this is the last one that I have. Um, we're gonna call... All right, so you know, you were just in a meeting where, uh, a guy was saying a lot of jargon, or oftentimes you'll be in a meeting and, like, people are lying. They'll be like, "Well, we're doing great." Uh, and it's like, "Well, we're not really doing that great." And so for that we're gonna use the phrase bullshit bingo. It's like, "Hey, are we having a meeting about what we're gonna do, or are we just playing bullshit bingo and winning right now?"

Shaan Puri 38:34 [laughs]

Sam Parr 38:34 Uh, we're... This is, th- this meeting is just a game of bullshit bingo, and we're killing it.

Shaan Puri 38:38 [laughs]

Sam Parr 38:38 And so [laughs] yeah, it's like, "Shaan, look, you're telling me all this nonsen- nonsense. I think your board is full, uh, for bullshit bingo. Uh, this is just nonsense."

Shaan Puri 38:49 Right.

Sam Parr 38:49 And so we're gonna call it bullshit bingo. I like that one.

Shaan Puri 38:52 It's a way to call someone out, but because it's an alliteration, it just so- it just bubble wrapped it just enough.

Sam Parr 38:57 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shaan Puri 38:58 I, I think bubble wrap is the real winner here, it sounds like. [laughs]

Sam Parr 39:00 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 39:01 All right, I got one last one. This is similar to a situation where somebody's tr- we're trying really hard, but we're working on the wrong things. Feels like we're just massaging elbows here. It's when you're working on a problem and you're working really hard, but the, you're working on something that doesn't really matter. There's not enough meat on the bone there, and so you're just massaging elbows. It's the wrong place to be applying the effort.

Sam Parr 39:24 I like that one. I like that one. But you have one more that I think you should, you should fi- finalize with.

Shaan Puri 39:29 [laughs]

Sam Parr 39:29 The one about a tree.

Shaan Puri 39:30 [laughs] Yeah. So this one came from Diego, uh, 'cause I was brainstorming with him, and he goes [laughs] it's when you have an employee... Uh, okay, so the phrase is, "I think we're trying to teach a fish how to climb a tree." [laughs] And it's when you have an employee and you put them in a position that's not really their core strength. They're great as a fish, but they need to be in water, and you put them in a position, maybe it's a, a te- a technical person, you got them on sales calls. And it's we're trying to put a fi- we're trying to teach a fish how to climb a tree here. And you'd just be better off putting them in their natural environment and letting them succeed there than really just working against, uh, you know, the laws of nature.

Sam Parr 40:05 Have you used any of these phrases yet?

Shaan Puri 40:08 I'll, I'm gonna start. This, this was the, this was a brain, this was a thinkstorm, and so now I'm ready to start.

Sam Parr 40:13 [laughs] Nice. Uh, there was this TikTok I saw where it was this teacher, and he goes, "My new favorite thing is to talk to my Gen Z or whatever, uh, students and to say phrases and then gaslight them that they don't know what they are."

Shaan Puri 40:29 Okay.

Sam Parr 40:29 He's like, "I just make up phrases." And I think one of them was, uh, pebbles. It was like, "Pebbles is like the opposite of a mountain or the opposite of a boulder." So it's like, "Hey, why are you crying over this problem? This is a small problem. It's pebbles, baby. Like, you don't have to freak out about this."

Shaan Puri 40:42 [laughs]

Sam Parr 40:43 And he would just, like, throw these phrases in.

Shaan Puri 40:45 Dude, that's pretty sick, actually. [laughs]

Sam Parr 40:47 Pebbles is a good one, and I think another one was he, he was like, "Parked." So it was, um, it was, uh, when the day is going really slow or something's not moving. So for example, uh, "Man, it's, uh, we, it's only lunchtime now. Like, this day is so parked," and, uh, like-

Shaan Puri 41:03 [laughs]

Sam Parr 41:03 ... it's going so slow. And so he would use it in this TikTok. He's like, "I use these phrases, and I just... And they look at me, and they're like, 'What does that mean?' And I'm like, 'You don't know what that means, like, nerd?'" You know, uh, that's what we have to do with bubble wrapped or teaching a fish-

Shaan Puri 41:16 Yeah

Sam Parr 41:16 ... how to climb a tree. We're like, "How do you not know what that means?" We just have, we have to act like it's normal. And so when we have a-

Shaan Puri 41:21 A few of these had potential. Uh, like, I, first of all, parked and, uh, pebbles I think are elite. I don't know. I th- I think bubble wrap is pretty elite, to be honest. Uh, but l- in the YouTube comments, let us know which one was, uh, which, which one you're gonna actually adopt, which one was, was ready to go.

Sam Parr 41:37 We have to have some, like, uh, buttoned-up billionaire guest or something on, on, and just, like, use these-

Shaan Puri 41:42 Oh, we just start using them? [laughs]

Sam Parr 41:44 We just start using them.

Shaan Puri 41:45 [laughs]

Sam Parr 41:45 And we'll, we'll use them so many times in just, like, for example, uh, do you remember that movie Super Troopers where there are cops, and they're like, "Hey, you wanna play the meow game?" And so instead of saying now, they use the, like, "Give me your license right meow."

Shaan Puri 41:56 [laughs]

Sam Parr 41:57 Uh, and they're like, "Let's see if we can play... Let's, let's see who can say meow the most."

Shaan Puri 42:00 How many we can put in here. Yeah. [laughs]

Sam Parr 42:01 Uh, that's what we have to do with our next guest is, like... So, like, uh, Dharmesh, did you, like, were you able to give it to him blunt, or did you have to bubble wrap it? You know what I mean? [laughs]

Shaan Puri 42:09 [laughs] Just see, do they react or do they try to roll with it? [laughs]

Sam Parr 42:14 Yeah. [laughs] Um, are we gonna wrap up here? Is, is that it? Are we-

Shaan Puri 42:20 Yeah

Sam Parr 42:20 ... are we gonna... Was this podcast a thinkstorm?

Shaan Puri 42:22 [laughs] Yeah, I think we gotta, I think we gotta end it there.

Sam Parr 42:24 All right, that's the pod. [upbeat music]

Shaan Puri 42:28 Dude, I got a shoehorn. You ever used a shoehorn?

Sam Parr 42:32 Is that to put your shoes on? I bought, like-

Shaan Puri 42:35 Not just a shoehorn. I bought, like, the most intense... Like, just for scale, this thing's bigger than my torso. So good, so critical, such an amazing inv- I've never done one thing in my career as important as inventing the shoehorn. That's my new goal.

Sam Parr 42:49 I thought you were, like, a Crocs type of guy, though.

Shaan Puri 42:51 [laughs]

Sam Parr 42:52 What type of shoes, what type of shoes are you wearing?

Shaan Puri 42:55 Well, that's why when I try to put shoes on, then it seems so difficult, 'cause I've just been in, uh, flip-flops all day, right?

Sam Parr 43:00 Have you been following Dia Workwear on Twitter?

Shaan Puri 43:03 I do watch him. Why, what did he say about shoes?

Sam Parr 43:06 He just is inspiring me to dress better. Like, he's just, his content is so interesting, and, uh, I think he's inspiring a lot of people to dress better. Uh, he's just awesome.

Shaan Puri 43:14 Is that why you have this green T-shirt from Hanes?

Sam Parr 43:18 No.

Shaan Puri 43:18 [laughs]

Sam Parr 43:19 Uh, it's a little bit challenging when we do the pod, but, uh, 'cause you only see, like, nips up.

Shaan Puri 43:24 Nips up.

Sam Parr 43:25 So...

Shaan Puri 43:25 [laughs] Well, we need our own Twitter account, Fashion for Podcasters. [laughs]

Sam Parr 43:31 I know. Um...

Shaan Puri 43:32 Best 12 garments you can buy nips up.

Sam Parr 43:35 Yeah, it's hard to, it's just nips up. It's hard to, like, kinda be flamboyant like some of his stuff. [upbeat music]