Nick Bare Tells ALL: Natural Vs Steroids, $60M Supplement Empire & Sub-3 Marathons

Sam Parr 0:00 All right, everyone, what's happening? This is Sam. So on today's pod, I did something s- very selfish. So I've got these two friends, one is named Nick Bare, so you probably have seen Nick on Instagram or on YouTube. He's got millions of followers. And he owns this company called BPN, Bare Performance Nutrition. They do something like $60 million a year in sales, so he's a really successful entrepreneur, but he's like a fitness fanatic. So he looks like a bodybuilder but he's run some marathon in like 2 hours and 39 minutes, which is a freakish time, but it's also freakish considering how big he is. And then we have Sahil Bloom, who's another buddy of mine, who's really popular on social media, on Twitter. He's a writer. You probably have seen him all over the place. And I just nerded out on fitness with these guys. We also talked a little bit about business, so we asked the typical questions like, "Where do you guys spend your money? How much do you spend each month? Where do you like to invest your money?" Um, we talked about gr- their, their companies and how they're growing, and we did a lot of business stuff. But most of this was about fitness, and I just asked them all the fitness questions that I had. I had a bunch of listeners send me questions, and I think it was a great time and it was really fun to learn about what these

Sam Parr 1:00 guys are doing for training. Hopefully inspire you. So anyway, check out the pod. [upbeat music] Can I ask you... So I, I tweeted out that you guys were coming on, and I got a bunch of questions. They range from personal finance, fitness, business, all types of stuff. I wanna ask you guys both a couple questions. I'm gonna start, which... I'm gonna start with one that sounds like the hardest, but I actually think it's the easiest 'cause you answer this all the time. And I'll preface this by saying I've seen your, your father in videos, I've seen your brother in videos, and I've seen you in real life. And so I think I know what the answer is, 'cause I know the genetics that you come from. But someone said, "Genuinely curious, how can Nick be natural given his performance? Please press him on this." And so you constantly get asked if you're natural. I know you've answered it constantly, but just humor me for, because this was a, a very, uh... A lot of people ask this question.

Nick Bare 2:01 I am natural. And I used to address these, these call-outs and questions and claims all the time, 'cause I would get defensive in it. Like, it was all the time. It's been like that since I started creating content. I even went to the extent of sharing blood work every month. I was going and getting blood work every month, and I would share it on my videos during my bulk and my cut. And people like, "Oh, he's faking it. He's fi- he's finding workarounds." I'm like, "Guys." So I finally have gotten to a point where I'm just over-addressing the, the questions and the claims and the hate around it.

Sam Parr 2:39 [laughs]

Nick Bare 2:40 And I'm just gonna do my thing. Like even in this last marathon, people were like, "He's using EPO."

Sam Parr 2:46 What is that?

Nick Bare 2:47 Like blood doping. I'm like, what amateur-

Sam Parr 2:49 [laughs]

Nick Bare 2:49 ... what amateur athlete you know that's running marathons who run marathons is taking EPO and blood doping?

Sam Parr 2:55 But then you're like, "How do I, how do I get that? Does anyone have a guy?" [laughs]

Nick Bare 2:59 I'm like, yeah, I'm like, "Who, like, where do you get EPO?" [laughs]

Sam Parr 3:02 [laughs] I don't even know where you'd, you'd, you'd get that. Um, I, I mean, I've seen you, uh, in real life. The... You, you just have... I think you're just a freak genetically. And, and I, I would be honored if someone asked if I was on a, a bunch of stuff. That would make me feel wonderful. [laughs]

Sahil Bloom 3:17 Dude, also by the way, like my, um, my thing with this always is, like I have a few friends who everyone says this about. They're like, "Oh, they, you know, definitely not natural." And I just know for a fact that that person has just outworked me in the gym on a daily basis for the last like 10 fucking years, excuse my language. And not by like a ton, but by a little bit every single day for 10 years, and that adds up to something insane, and it looks like a totally different human being. So like when I see a dude that has way bigger shoulders than me or way bigger chest, like I know that they probably did that extra set or they did the extra two reps that I was just like, "Oh, six is good," and stopped. And so like I just, I, I think it's such a cop-out when people freak out about like, "Oh, are you natural

Sahil Bloom 4:00 or not?" 'Cause the reality is like-

Sam Parr 4:01 But Sahil, s- sometimes they don't because genetics are real. Like for example-

Sahil Bloom 4:05 Genetics are real, but like-

Nick Bare 4:06 Genetics, genetics are like definitely a real thing. Like the, the Bare genetics are solid. Like your-

Sam Parr 4:13 Dude, your dad ran like a sub-6 mile. I don't remember what age he is, but he was some... You know, he was a grown man and he still was huge. Like you guy- And then I saw your brother. Your brother looked like he competed in the Strongman Games. I mean, you guys are just huge.

Nick Bare 4:28 Yeah, so my, my dad's 60. My uncle, his brother, is 57. If you saw both of them with their shirts off after running, they still both run marathons, half marathons. I mean, six-pack abs, chiseled arms and shoulders. They don't take anything. They're not, they're not on TRT or any of that stuff. They're just like farm boys who grew up in Central Pennsylvania milking cows and-

Sam Parr 4:50 [laughs]

Nick Bare 4:51 ... and bailing hay.

Sam Parr 4:52 Well, dude, listen to this. So Sahil texted me. I, I, I nerded out with him. I go-

Sahil Bloom 4:56 Oh yeah, this is good

Sam Parr 4:56 ... I go, "Dude, I just hung out with Nick Bare, um, and, and it was amazing." And Sahil was like, "Yeah, he's, you know, he looks great," whatever, "But how tall is he?" And I was like, "I'm pretty sure he's my height or just like an inch shorter." Uh, so he's pretty tall, and I sent him this picture. And I remember in that photo, I think, I think, Nick, you were at like your weakest. You were about to run a marathon. I was at my strongest, and our squats and bench were like almost the same. I think you did five pounds ahead. And, um, you just like looked so much better. And, uh, you know, we were like, "This sucks that like we're kinda comparable, I guess, in terms of strength." But like he just, he just has it. He just has it. Like you j- you just, you just have whatever it is that you just, you look good. Uh, I, I just-

Nick Bare 5:41 I appreciate that

Sam Parr 5:42 ... genetics are real. [laughs] Arie's laughing at me. [laughs]

Sahil Bloom 5:44 Being tan helps, Sam. You got... Sam, you gotta get a tan, man. You're too pale to, uh-

Nick Bare 5:48 Yeah

Sahil Bloom 5:48 ... you're too pale to have good-looking abs.

Sam Parr 5:50 That's genetics, man. That's, that's another genetics component. He just has it. And so-

Nick Bare 5:54 The genes

Sam Parr 5:54 ... I don't know. Everyone, everyone in the comments are gonna make fun of me that I'm just like flirting with you. But, you know, I'm just saying what people think.

Nick Bare 6:00 Genetics are like a, a real thing You can take Person A, Person B, different genetics, same work ethic, same diet, same training program, and you're not gonna get the same results. People, people send me messages all the time. They're like, "I eat exactly what you eat. I train exactly the way you train. I run exactly the same miles as you, but we don't look the same." Well, yeah, because genetically we are not the same. Like, we have different DNA, so it's gonna have different results. It doesn't mean you shouldn't eat right and train and, and try to do your best, but, like, I will give, I will give genetics the credit they deserve, but also I am one of the most consistent people I know in terms of training and recovery and diet. Like, my diet is dialed in. I still enjoy myself. Like, me and my wife will go for dinner. I'll get some drinks. I'll, like, order the whole menu and try everything. I love food. I'm a big foodie. But my, my diet 90% of the time is so regimented and dialed in. I'm eating my meals when I'm not hungry. I'm eating my meals when I know I need nutrition to fuel workouts. Like, it is, for me, a lifestyle that I truly love and embrace.

Sam Parr 7:13 [upbeat music] I can't find this client info.

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Sam Parr 7:31 Are you like that, Sahil? Are you as dialed in, you think?

Sahil Bloom 7:34 Yeah. I mean, I'm just, like, I, I probably have a similar wiring to you, Nick. Like, I'm, I kind of have, like, a obsessive personality, and so when I, when I commit to something or dive in on it, it's gonna piss off everyone around me because I'm like, if we were traveling during the day and I get home at 10:00 PM but I had a six-mile run to do, I'm going out at 10:00 PM and have to go hit the run.

Nick Bare 7:53 Yeah.

Sahil Bloom 7:54 And it's not a question. And, like, if I get home at midnight but I'm the type of person that wakes up at 4:00 and gets in my cold plunge, I'm waking up at 4:00 and getting in my cold plunge. And, uh, I'm, I feel the same way as you in general on the genetics thing, although I will say, like, when people say, "Oh, I do the same workouts as you. I run the same miles. I did the same thing," I call bullshit 'cause I, I just don't like... I've, I've trained super hard my whole life, but there are people that I just know have trained harder than me 'cause I know, like, in the back of my mind I know for sure that, like, I could have probably done two more reps on something, but I, like, was working out on my own in my, in my home gym, and I just, like, took it easy. And that two reps compounded over five years makes a difference, um, to the point on, like, time being a lever. And so I'm honest enough with myself on some things where, like, with running, I post all my stats. And so there's no hiding, right? Like, if I'm gonna post my Coros, you know, screenshot or whatever on my Instagram from any run workout, I can't hide from whether or not I put in the right amount of effort on that workout. But lifting, I can totally hide from it. Like, I'm not sh- you can't see all the stats exactly on what I did and how many reps I hit or whatever it was. And so it's also just, like, the accountability, um, that comes with sharing things publicly on your progress that I feel like for you, like, you've been basically doing that for s- what? Six, seven, eight years. Like, you've been showing your process in public. And the accountability that comes from that, that people are out there waiting, like, "Oh, what's Nick's next thing? What's he going after? Is he gonna hit his goal?" That adds a whole lot of fire. Like, when you're running CIM-

Nick Bare 9:28 Oh, for sure

Sahil Bloom 9:29 ... and you're struggling mile 20 and you're like, "This isn't for, this isn't for me. Like, I, I have a million people out there that wanna see me get this 239 done, so I'm gonna go do it."

Nick Bare 9:39 I mean, that's, that's why we included a small clip in the video after that race was over, but that's why these... When you hit your goal in a race or you hit your goal in anything, it feels so good when you hit it 'cause you know the work that went in. And all I kept saying after I got across that finish line at CIM, I kept saying, "Man, I'm so fucking proud of that. I'm so proud of that one," because, like, you know all the work that goes into it, the early mornings, hitting your workouts, making sure you hit your, your paces, making sure you fueled properly the night before those big workouts. And when I was at, like, mile 20, I knew I was, I was running sub-2:40. Like, I, I just knew I was on pace. I was like, "I can hold on for another six miles." And I could feel this lump just, like, forming in my throat. I was getting emotional. So I was thinking-

Sahil Bloom 10:30 Right

Nick Bare 10:30 ... "Man, all this work, like, this is why I did it." I'm holding 6:05 paces at mile 20 with six miles left, like, home stretch. And when you finally hit that goal and it's because of the work you put in, like, there is nothing that replaces that.

Sahil Bloom 10:48 My, um, my dad and I have been really close my whole life, and I played baseball in college, Nick, in case, in case we had, we hadn't talked about that. And, um, when I had to retire 'cause I was hurt, the hardest thing was telling my dad, um, 'cause so much of our relationship had been built around the sport and built around, you know, him coming to all my practices, taking me to all my lessons, all that stuff over the years. And he told me at the time, like, "I don't care. I'm gonna be there to cheer you on in whatever your next thing is in life." And at my marathon, uh, he surprised me and flew out for it. And I remember, like, those last six miles I was hurting so, so bad, and all I was thinking the whole time was, like, "I gotta get to my dad. He's at the finish line. He's there waiting for me." And when I crossed the finish line and I had done it, I'd gone sub-3, he was standing there, and I, like, broke down completely. I mean, like, all of the emotion that you hold in from that, you know, from trying to get to something or, like, struggling through it, hitting your goal, um, that emotion, like, it's completely unparalleled, like nothing I've ever experienced in life, just that, that rush.

Nick Bare 11:56 I think that's why people keep signing up and, and doing races or signing up and committing to hard things is 'cause when you finally accomplish it, it's like, uh- I referenced this part of this book all the time 'cause I think it's so applicable. But in Tim Grover's book, Winning, he talks about achieving your first win. And when you achieve that first win, no matter what it is, it builds this little ounce of confidence. So then you set out to achieve another win, but that win is larger and more ambitious, and it requires more work, more effort. But when you finally get it, it builds more confidence. And you keep applying this thing over years, and years, and years, and you keep pushing out what that win is and could be. Through the process of succeeding, and failing, and winning, and losing, you build this massive amount of confidence where you finally get to a point thinking, "Oh, I can actually do whatever I wanna do." That's a v- really powerful position to be in.

Sahil Bloom 12:58 That's why I always say there's no such thing as a loser who wakes up at 5:00 AM and works out. Because it is so hard to do, and if you are losing in life and you're not happy with where you are, get up early and work out for two weeks-

Sam Parr 13:10 Dude, I hate when you say that. You piss me off so much when you say that because I get out of bed at 7:00 or 8:00, but I'll be doing stuff until 1:00 AM. Whenever you say that, I feel so guilty. [laughs]

Sahil Bloom 13:20 But that is... I'm not saying it on the other end that you can't win. I'm saying if you're not happy with your position in life, one of the biggest reasons is that you need to change your self-identity, right? Like, you need to start identifying as a winner. Exactly

Sahil Bloom 13:30 what Nick said, like you need to create evidence that proves to yourself that you're a winner. And waking up early and working out is the easiest way-

Sam Parr 13:37 Sure

Sahil Bloom 13:37 ... to do that. And, like, it still sucks, but if you do that for a week, you immediately are like, "Oh, wow, I can do that. That's one hard thing that I do." I'm... Like, you start to change your brain chemistry around who you are as a person.

Sam Parr 13:48 Dude, I feel so shitty. I'll wake up, I'll look at Instagram, and I'll be like, "All right, I just got up at 8:00." And then I see Nick post and it's like, I think on Saturday or something, it's like, dude, he just ran eight miles. He already-

Sahil Bloom 14:00 Just ran 72 miles at a 6:15 pace.

Sam Parr 14:03 Like, he'll, he... [laughs] Like, his Instagram post, I, I'm like, "Shit."

Sahil Bloom 14:05 And fed his daughter a great meal.

Sam Parr 14:08 Yeah. Like, he does all this before I'm even awake. But I, in my head I'm like, "That bitch is going to bed at 9:00, though. I'm gonna-

Nick Bare 14:13 Yeah

Sam Parr 14:13 ... I'm gonna fuck him up between 10:00 and, 10:00 and 1:00 AM." [laughs]

Sahil Bloom 14:16 [laughs]

Nick Bare 14:16 I, I am, I am a morning person. I am not a, a night owl by any means. But now, now my, now my daughter is born and she's getting older. If I don't wake up at 5:00 and work out, there's a chance it's, it might not get done. So, like right now we're going through this sleep regression where she's waking up at the oddest times and screaming her head off in the night. So, like, last night, I woke up in the middle of the night, gave her a bottle, put her down. She didn't want me to leave her room, so I ended up sleeping the rest of the night next to her crib. My alarm went off at 5:00. I was like, "All right. Here we go." Went downstairs, went through my routine, went out for my run.

Sam Parr 14:55 Ugh. There's nothing that makes me more sick to my stomach than morning air. Um, let me ask you guys-

Nick Bare 15:00 [laughs]

Sam Parr 15:00 Let me ask you guys a, a quick question. Um, uh, this will be... I- it's meant for Nick, but Sahil, I wanna hear your answer, too. Nick covers all fitness and diet stuff extensively on his channel, but I wanna know his monthly burn. So where, uh, what he spends his money on and where he puts his money, invests his money outside of BPM.

Nick Bare 15:17 So investing-wise, at this point in my life, I haven't gotten to a point where I have any personal interest in investing, so I just hire a financial advisor and he takes care of all of my investments for me.

Nick Bare 15:30 Maybe at some point I'll actually be curious and explore that curiosity, but, like I work with a guy. We make a budget.

Sam Parr 15:36 So just index funds probably.

Nick Bare 15:37 Yeah. I'm just like, "Take this money. Put it where you think it's gonna make me some money." Uh, other than that, I mean, most of my money that I'm spending is either going towards my mortgage, investing back into the business, my personal brand, and mainly food, to be honest. Like, me and my wife-

Sam Parr 15:57 How much do you spend per month on food?

Nick Bare 15:59 Just groceries? Maybe, like... It's hard to say 'cause we'll do, like one big grocery haul a week, then I go, like every other day to the grocery store. And I'm going to, like these exclusive, like, butcher shops here in Nashville. So, like, maybe I spend $2,000, $2,500 a month on groceries. But then we're going out to dinner and, like, when we go out to dinner, it's we want every appetizer, [laughs] every entrée. We're gonna sample stuff, get a few cocktails. Like, w- we, that's our thing is we love-

Sam Parr 16:30 Sure

Nick Bare 16:30 ... experiences like that. And we'll do some big vacations every year. But, like, I'm not going out and buying a lot of materialistic things right now. It's more so on experiences.

Sahil Bloom 16:40 So you haven't gotten on the no alcohol train, Nick?

Nick Bare 16:43 Nope. Uh, to be honest, I, I, I really have no interest on the, the no alcohol train. Like, I'm not a big drinker. But, like, if me and my wife are going to date night on Thursday, 'cause Thursday is our date night night, I'll get one drink, maybe two drinks. But I really, really never drink over two drinks, ever.

Sam Parr 17:06 Wait, do you drink, Sahil?

Sahil Bloom 17:08 I'm the same way as Nick. Like, I, I, um, I think, like, when it enhances the experience with the person you're with, uh, I love it. And then I just... I've cut all, like, drink by myself at home out of my life.

Nick Bare 17:23 Yeah, I don't do any drinking by myself. But, like, if, if I'm with a group of people and we're having, like, a, an old fashioned or opening a bottle of wine, I do think it enhances the experience. And the conversation's always good, and it lightens the mood a little bit, and just allows you to just relax.

Sam Parr 17:43 What, what's your, Sahil, what's your answer to that question? What do you, what do you do? You do with your money the same thing I do. You just are in Vanguard index, right?

Sahil Bloom 17:51 Yeah. I mean, we were, uh, like, I was much more fun with my money when I was in my private equity days, uh, 'cause then it was like, I don't know, it was just, like, freewheeling in my 20s doing whatever the hell. And then we had a kid and I was like, "I should probably start just being really boring with this." And I feel like you influenced me in this. Like, we're in this group chat all together with a bunch of, uh, absolute degenerates-

Sam Parr 18:12 Total degenerates

Sahil Bloom 18:14 They all, like, sling their money into the most degenerate stuff, and they're always texting the thread like, "This is the best new opportunity." And-

Sam Parr 18:20 They'll, like, buy like a million dollars of aluminum or a million dollars of some, some shit that I've never even heard of. And-

Sahil Bloom 18:28 And without fail, by the way, like six months later it's at its all-time low. Like, this thing [laughs] just absolutely tanks.

Sam Parr 18:34 Yeah, it's stupid.

Sahil Bloom 18:35 Uh-

Sam Parr 18:35 Or they'll short stuff or whatever. I don't even know what did they do, but it's like these... terminology that I don't even understand.

Sahil Bloom 18:42 I mean, it goes back to, like, the fundamental thing is, like, you should spend more time figuring out how to increase your income versus, like, what your returns are investing for the vast majority of people because that's a much bigger lever for your long-term financial wealth. Um-

Sam Parr 18:56 And that- that's what I did for a while

Sahil Bloom 18:58 ... I, uh-

Sam Parr 18:58 I just, I just focused on how to make more money, how to, how to build revenue streams. And then it got to a point where, like, I was finally ready to start investing and I was able to invest or put away a lot of money a month that I didn't need to spend or, or have liquid.

Sahil Bloom 19:15 Yeah, and it's just like, I just like to not have to think about where that is though. Like, yeah, I, I do that too. I just want it to sit in like... I basically want to just track an index and just go sit there. But, uh, to the burn question, Sam, we probably spend like, I don't know, 20, 30 a month or something like that, um, all in on everything. And groceries probably similar to, similar to Nick. We probably spend three to five a month, um, on food.

Sam Parr 19:41 I don't even know... I don't know what my monthly spend is at the moment, but maybe 20. But I can see why New York would be significantly higher. But I, I-

Sahil Bloom 19:49 You're about to get on the, uh, Northeast grind, right?

Sam Parr 19:52 Yeah. I'm thinking about moving up there and I'm looking at the difference in prices and, like, it's, it's, uh, it's pretty meaningful compared to Texas. Uh, yeah. So-

Sahil Bloom 20:02 Are you think- are you thinking about going to the city?

Sam Parr 20:04 So my in-laws live, uh, around, in this, in Manhattan and I frankly hate Manhattan. I like Brooklyn, but I have a newborn and I think that we will likely do the most bougie thing on Earth. But, um, there's a town called the Westport, Connecticut. It's next to Greenwich, Connecticut. So you could say I'm gonna be moved to G- Greenwich, Connecticut which is like clay, clay tennis courts and white skirts and shit like that. But I think we're going to. Yeah. But we... Like, I, I'm testing it out. So I rented a place for, uh, a few weeks, uh, in late January just to see what it's like, and I'm looking at what the rent is. And, like, a comparable home to where I am now, 'cause I don't wanna buy at the moment, it's like [laughs] 20 grand a month in rent. I mean, it's just like crazy. Uh, so yeah.

Sahil Bloom 20:49 The biggest reason, by the way, that Sam's not saying for why he's moving here is because it's like 20 minutes from me and we have a long-term plan of my son Roman and his daughter Naomi-

Sam Parr 20:58 [laughs]

Sahil Bloom 20:59 ... uh, starting to

Sahil Bloom 21:00 build the, uh, the Parr-Bloom empire here. So we need to, like, start cultivating it early in their-

Sam Parr 21:05 It's the deed

Sahil Bloom 21:05 ... in their young years.

Sam Parr 21:06 I like that. Yeah. I'm okay with that. Uh, we're, we're just planning ahead. Um, let me, all right, let me ask you guys another question. Um, uh, w- uh, this is a two-parter. So what, what do most people get wrong about health and fitness? What makes you wanna... Nick, what makes you wanna throw your computer out the window when people say it online? And the second thing is, um, would love an honest assessment of time requirements and what's the best bang for your buck for workouts, because a lot of us listening are entrepreneurs and we don't have a ton of time. Um, so what's like the best bang for your buck? So it's a two-parter.

Sahil Bloom 21:39 I think that, like, I can answer both probably in one answer. I think most people think that they need to spend like an hour running a day and an hour strength training a day. So everyone thinks they have to spend like two hours training a day. But I think you could easily split that 45 minutes to an hour a day split between strength and endurance training and get like a really, really solid workout. But I think you have some sort of... You have to have some sort of level of cardiovascular conditioning as well as strength into your programming.

Sam Parr 22:15 When you say cardiovascular do you mean like HIIT, like a, like a 60-minute Barry's or do you mean like a, like a Barry's Bootcamp class something like that or a body weight thing? Or do you mean walking or do you mean zone two steady pace stuff?

Sahil Bloom 22:27 I'd say it's a mixture between zone two, zone three, 'cause most people to be honest aren't spending their time in zone two. Zone two is actually like super low. And-

Sam Parr 22:35 Which is like what? 130 beats per minute for like a 30-year-old?

Sahil Bloom 22:40 Yeah. It's, it's, it's low and most people are not doing any zone two training. So I, I like to refer-

Sam Parr 22:46 And what's the ben- what's the benefit of zone two though?

Sahil Bloom 22:48 Aerobic base building.

Sam Parr 22:50 But what's that mean for... Does that make me live longer? Does that make me less likely to have a heart attack? What's it do?

Sahil Bloom 22:55 All those things. Helps, uh, cardiovascular health, it helps build your aerobic foundation so that you can utilize oxygen more efficiently. Like, you're not gonna go run a sub-3 hour marathon by just doing speed work. You need that aerobic base building where your body is learning how to utilize the oxygen at a more effective and efficient rate by then using fuel sources appropriately alongside of. So, like, I'd say a split between, you probably want, just talking about cardiovascular conditioning, 70 to 80% of that training being your aerobic zone, whether that's zone two, zone three which is like lighter. So you're walking, hiking, jogging something like that. And then 20 to 30% of your cardiovascular conditioning's more HIIT. You could do a Barry's Bootcamp. You can go do like a... My, my wife does SoulCycle, like a SoulCycle class. Hop on your Peloton. Go do some sprints, speed workout something like that where the heart rate is getting elevated. Uh, lactate threshold type stuff. So if you split your, your cardiovascular training between aerobic zones and some high intensity interval training and then you have compound movements, strength training. You're doing some, some heavier movements working with free weights, barbells, machines stuff like that-

Nick Bare 24:20 You don't need to spend two hours every day. You can spend 45 minutes to an hour, you know, four days a week, five days a week. I personally love to train, so I, I'm working out every day a week doing something, move my body.

Sam Parr 24:34 For strength training, what do you, what do you say? It's like, do you tell people, like, do the five by five? Or like what, what's your s- suggestion? Just squat, deadlift, bench? I, what do you do?

Nick Bare 24:44 I mean, there's a lot of different ways to approach it. Like right now, I personally enjoy the push-pull leg split, which is a, a three-day split that you can do three workouts a week or you can do six workouts a week. So like a push day would be all pushing movements. It'd be chest focused, shoulders, triceps, pushing being upper body. And then a pull day would be back, biceps, movements like rows, all upper body again. And then your lower day is, um, lower body, legs, quads, hamstrings, glutes. I like starting every strength workout with some, some warmup movements and then going into a, a heavy working compound movement exercise like a barbell squat. You can do a deadlift. You can do a hex bar deadlift, bench press, or dumbbell chest press, and then having some accessory movements alongside of that to support the development of the muscles that you're utilizing for those big compound movements. So that's the way I like to approach cardiovascular and then strength training. I don't personally like to mix the two, like the, the CrossFit approach. I've never fallen in love with that. Like when I'm strength training, I like strength training, and when I'm doing my cardio, I like cardio. But I don't, I don't like like doing them together. I like when they're separate and distinct and separated. Now, moving on to I think where like what irks me about the fitness space. I actually made a post about this yesterday, 'cause everyone going into a new year is gonna have new training and diet goals. And everyone thinks that like there's this new thing that they're gonna do that's gonna change their life, it's gonna change their body, it's gonna change their health. So January 1st starts, people are thinking, "I need to do something new. What should I do? I'm gonna do carnivore. No, I'm gonna do keto. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go like strictly bodybuilding. No, I'm just like just gonna run." So people go to these extremes thinking it's like the magic pill they haven't tried yet that's gonna unlock this hidden potential that was just disguised by everything else they were doing previously. And the reality is that like that's not going to change anything. If it does, like the, the changes are incremental. But what makes this compounding change in your life and your fitness is your health is just being consistent with eating better, drinking more water, moving your body. That's why everyone's talking about getting in more steps. When you're getting in more steps, you're just being more active. Going to the gym on a regular consistent basis. It's creating, creating habits and routines in your life that help you facilitate these healthy habits on a consistent and regular routine.

Sam Parr 27:36 Shaan was telling me that he was talking or he saw the guy who started, uh, Slice, it's like a pis- pizza app. He was like, "Between January 1st and January 11th, our sales slump." And he goes, "On January 12th, that's National Quitting Day." And he goes, "We see all-time high sales on, for people ordering pizza 'cause everyone from their New Year's resolution is giving in on January 12th. That's where, that's where it ends."

Nick Bare 27:58 11 days, that's wild.

Sahil Bloom 27:59 We owned a ton of, uh, Planet Fitnesses, uh, back in my PE days, and that like first 10 days of the year is like rainmaker season. [laughs] Like you're just sitting there just like watching the fees pour in, like praying to the rain gods for all the money that's coming in. And then inevitably those people just don't end up going to the gym. It's, it's-

Nick Bare 28:19 But they still pay.

Sahil Bloom 28:21 Yeah, they still pay. I mean that's-

Sam Parr 28:22 Dude, and Planet Fitness makes it impossible-

Sahil Bloom 28:22 They say the Planet Fitness business model-

Sam Parr 28:24 Dude, they make it impossible to cancel

Sahil Bloom 28:26 ... Planet Fitness' business model is like... Yeah, and the, you get, you get like 10,000 members for a gym and maybe like, you know, five, 10% of them actually like regularly use it, so the equipment doesn't have to get refreshed that often. It's like, I mean, it's an incredible business model.

Sam Parr 28:38 All right. Here's a question for Sahil. So we didn't even mention this, but Sahil, uh, Sahil, you mentioned that you were a baseball player. I was a runner all through high school and college. The baseball players were usually the douches who made fun of the runners 'cause of our shorts. And about a year ago you got in-

Sahil Bloom 28:54 Sounds about right

Sam Parr 28:54 ... you got into running. You made all these grand claims about these times that you were gonna run. You said you were gonna break 18 in the 5K. You were gonna break th- I was like, "You're an idiot, dude. You don't know what the hell you're talking about." Turns out you were completely right. You nailed all of it. You, you, you crushed it in running. And someone asked what the biggest... So, so at this point, by the way, you're a pretty like, you're like a pretty successful runner for like in the weekend cate- in the weekend warrior category. You're like top, uh, top in that category, uh, which is, uh, sounds like a left-handed compliment. That's not what it... That wasn't supposed to be that. It was... That was a compliment.

Sahil Bloom 29:25 I take that. That's good.

Sam Parr 29:26 That wa- that was a compliment. Someone said, "What's the, uh, biggest surprise Sahil's learned from getting more into running?"

Sahil Bloom 29:31 Honestly, it goes back to what you said. Like when I was, um, when I was in high school, like I thought runners were nerds. Um-

Sam Parr 29:38 [laughs]

Sahil Bloom 29:38 ... and in my mind it was like the nerdiest sport. Like I couldn't imagine running or like being into r- I was like, "Oh, it's not, you know, it's not a team sport. Like it's not... It's, it doesn't seem hard," whatever. And I have developed unbelievable respect for endurance athletes and for runners from having gone through this because, I mean, a, a few reasons. First off, the training is so many

Sahil Bloom 30:00 hours and so monotonous, and you have to fall in love with the long, slow runs. Like it, you know, in baseball it was all intensity, so you can get excited about, you know, like a really fast sprint. Uh, you know, I was a pitcher, so like a bullpen session or whatever. But with running, like if you're gonna be a marathoner, you have to love the 22-mile at a like 8:30 pace. Just zero fun. Like you have to fall in love with that and be willing to do that over and over and over again in order to become ... a great amateur or to become elite, you know, like on, on Nick's level and above, and you have to do it consistently over a long period of time. And then the second one is just, like, the mental fortitude to pull through a race is badass. Like, it hurts so ba- I mean, I would argue that the 5K is the most painful. Like, I did... So my, my PRs were the 2:57 marathon, which was painful, but in, like, a your legs are cramping kind of way, where you just need to, like, grit your teeth to the finish. I ran the 4:59 mile, which honestly didn't hurt that bad because it was too short to hurt. Like, it was just, it was over before it could really start to hurt. It was like you're breathing really fast, but it didn't hurt that bad. But the 5K, which I ran 17:52, was, like, excruciating pain. Uh, absolutely, like, the last five laps of that were the most miserable experience maybe of my life. Um, just, like, past your lactate threshold. Awful. And the mental fortitude that runners have and that endurance athletes have to grind through that, I now, like... I no longer think runners are nerds. I think it is legit badassery, and especially when it's, like, a runner that has body weight on them, I think it's unbelievable.

Nick Bare 31:36 Well, the, the, the, the runner, like, the, the runner has evolved over the years, too. Like, now running's become so popular in the past couple years. It's, it's-

Sam Parr 31:48 Do you think it's because of people like you? I mean, I think, I think that you've created, like, a huge trend of these, like, it's, it's now macho to be a runner.

Nick Bare 31:56 Yeah, I, I do think that, like, COVID and the pandemic definitely contributed to a lot of that, where gyms were closed down. And this is why a lot of my content actually started growing, is because I was pumping out running content for, like, a year and a half before the pandemic hit. And then pandemic hits, all these gyms close, people have nowhere to, to work out and train, and they need it for their physical health, but also their mental health. So people start running and looking for running content, and my content blew up during that time because everyone was looking for how to run, especially, you know, people who are focused on strength now transitioning and evolving towards running. But I, I mean, I think running has become cooler because there's a different look to running now. Like, you can carry more weight. You can look like a bodybuilder. You can look like a strength athlete. And there's these different parts of running that exist, like the ultra scene has come up, and I didn't know what ultra running was years ago. And you have, like, these badass disruptive races. Like, have you guys heard of The Speed Project?

Sam Parr 33:04 No, what's that?

Sahil Bloom 33:04 No.

Nick Bare 33:05 So The Speed Project is, like, this underground race that happens, and you start in LA, and then it goes to Las Vegas. There's no spectators. There's no rules. You just get there as fast as possible, and it's a relay race. So you have a team of, uh, say, like, maybe six people. I think it's, like, 300 miles, and someone has to be running all the time.

Sam Parr 33:30 Holy shit.

Nick Bare 33:31 But it's, like, super disruptive, really, like, aggressive, in your face look and feel. It's badass. And then you have races, like, have you guys heard of the Barkley Marathons?

Sam Parr 33:41 No, what are these?

Nick Bare 33:42 Dude, you guys, you guys need to watch this documentary, like, tonight. It's called Where Dreams Go to Die. [laughs]

Sahil Bloom 33:49 Oh, I have seen this.

Nick Bare 33:51 And this race happens in Tennessee. It's... I think there, there's five loops, and it's run by this guy named Laz. And you can't have a GPS watch. You don't have, uh, like, any sort of sense of where the route is. You're given a map, and the map has points on it. There's no trail. And you're given a bib number. So say your bib number is 13. On this map, you have to go find all these points before you come back to the checkpoint, and at each point on the map is a book, and you have to pull out the corresponding page with your bib number and bring it back to Laz after each loop to be able to go out and start again. And I think there were, like, six years where no one finished, no one won.

Sahil Bloom 34:41 Yeah, it's like 15 runners in 38 years have finished.

Sam Parr 34:44 Dude, that sounds like a pain in the butt. I, I'm not trying to learn how to read maps. I just wanna look good naked, like [laughs]

Sahil Bloom 34:49 But by the way, like, running, to, to Nick's point, running has definitely changed in public perception. Like, I just, more and more now I'm like, I used to think, oh, okay, lifting, like deadlifting to me, I'm like, oh, it's so primal. Deadlifting, like you gotta pick a car up off of your wife or off of your kid. Like, you gotta get it up off of them in order to save their life. And now I, I add running to that, where I'm like, if you can't go run, like, super fast to go call for help when someone's in trouble, like, y- uh, that's super primal to me. Like, you gotta pick the car up, and then you gotta go run two miles to c- get help from, like, the nearest aid station.

Sam Parr 35:24 We had Scott Galloway on, uh, Nick. Scott Galloway's this, like, big successful entrepreneur, whatever, and he, um, he said something that was a- was brilliant. He's like a, he's like a poet. He's really good with words. And he said, um, he goes, "My fitness regime, I wanna be able to kill and eat most everyone in a room or outrun them." Uh [laughs] , and I was like-

Nick Bare 35:44 I like that

Sam Parr 35:45 ... [laughs] that's great. I love that. That sounds very, like a very practical way to, to exercise. I, I enjoy that.

Sahil Bloom 35:53 Have you seen Theo Von on Joe Rogan talking about, uh, who he would eat in a plane crash?

Nick Bare 35:58 Yes.

Sahil Bloom 35:58 If you, if you haven't seen it, it's like one

Sahil Bloom 36:00 of the funniest Theo Von clips I've ever seen.

Sam Parr 36:02 Um, let me, uh... All right, I'll ask one or two more. Uh, the, so someone asked, do you guys, um, do you guys religiously stick to your programming, and do you ever create the programming yourself?

Nick Bare 36:16 It really depends on, for me, like, what I'm training for. If I have a very specific goal, then my training program is specialized to get to that specific goal. So for my, my marathon prep, working with Jeff Cunningham Like, he would give me my workouts for the week, and I would hit those workouts to a T. Like, I wouldn't miss or skip anything. I mean, there, there's been times where Jeff has accidentally sent me my workouts with wrong paces, and I'll look at them and be like, "Oh, shit, this seems fast." And I go out and hit them. He's like, "What are you doing?" I'm like, "You sent this over to me." He's like, "Oh, that's a typo." So, like, if you s- if you, if you send the program when I'm in a, a prep, I'm doing whatever you tell me to do. But outside of that, I have a lot of flexibility. Like, today, I woke up and I was thinking, "How does my body feel? How far do I wanna run?" I went and ran, ran 10 miles. Sometimes, in the middle of the run, like two to three miles in, I, I decide how far I'm gonna run based off of my feel, and that's called autoregulation. So you adjust your training programming based off your recovery and how you're feeling and how well you slept and all those things. So a lot of my training now is flexible, but it's not as rigid because I don't have a specific competition goal at the moment.

Sam Parr 37:34 What about you, Sahil?

Sahil Bloom 37:36 I need someone else to write the programs for me, otherwise I don't take them seriously, and I need to pay for them, um, I've found. Because when I pay for something, I take it way more seriously. So my, um, my marathon training, I had no program. I was just running with my neighbor, um, Brian Mazza, who's also a... I, I know Nick knows him also. Um, he's like a fitness influencer and a personality that was really into hybrid training as well. So I started running with him, had no program, and then, uh, I got connected on text with Nick, and I was like, "Nick, I wanna run a sub-three hour marathon. What's a workout I should do?" And Nick replied and was like, "Try doing this." And it was... I don't think I'd run over, like, 16 miles at the time, by the way. And Nick replied and said, "22-mile run." It was six miles easy to warm up, and then it was four rounds of three at 630 with one at 710 float. He was like, "If you can do that, you'll feel good about being able to run sub-three." And I had never d- I mean, I had not come close to that. But that weekend, I had the same thing as what you said with your trainer, Nick, where like, I was like, "All right, I gotta go do that, I guess." [laughs] And so I went out and hit that. Um, and then I started following Nick's marathon program as a result. Um, that got me through it.

Sam Parr 38:47 Wow. Um, I, I do the same thing, by the way. I've got a, a guy that does my programming here in Austin. His name's Jesse at Central Athlete. And it's expensive. I think I pay $400 a month. Um, and I only... I, I do everything that I'm told because I'm paying money for it, and if... I won't take it seriously if I'm doing it, or I wouldn't go... My intensity would be lower. I'd be like, "Dude, I can't do this." And it's like, well, Jesse told me I have to do it, therefore I will do it. Um, all right. Last question.

Sahil Bloom 39:15 You get nutrition coaching too, Sam?

Sam Parr 39:16 Oh, yeah. I get nutrition coaching. Yeah, I use MyBodyTutor. Um-

Sahil Bloom 39:20 Oh, yeah

Sam Parr 39:20 ... it's basically a service. When I was, like, really into it, I would call them for five minutes every single day, and they would be like, "All right, what's the plan today?" Where, like, y- you have, like, a quarterly plan. You're like,, "I wanna lose weight, gain weight. I don't wanna eat this. I do wanna eat this," whatever. And then it's like, "All right, what's, what, what's your plan today in order to hit your goals?" Um, and you, and they, you'd have to, like, show them and then they review your MyFitnessPal every night and it's like, "All right. You're, you're doing, you're doing everything according to plan." So it kinda guilt- guilts me into doing it, but it also teaches me. Like, like, I didn't know that you had to get a gram of protein per body pound or per pound of body weight. Like, I didn't know any of that shit, and so they, like, educated me. Um, all right, last-

Nick Bare 40:02 I think, I think track, track, tracking nutrition can be super beneficial for people just getting into health, fitness. It just teaches them about serving sizes and macronutrients and total calories.

Sam Parr 40:13 Well, I started weighing my food after I saw, Nick, you did it on some of your videos. You were like... And I thought weighing your food was, like, cumbersome, but, like, I just saw you, like, just have a bowl on top of the scale and when you were pouring the chicken in there, you're like, "I just need about half a pound," and you just pour it in there. I'm like, "Oh, cool. That was really simple and easy." You just poured it right into the bowl and put it in the microwave. It, and it was, like, a very easy thing to track. So I started doing it after I saw your videos, actually.

Nick Bare 40:34 Yeah, I don't, I don't track my nutrition right now, but I still weigh my food just for, like, serving size allocation.

Sam Parr 40:43 Yeah. And now I know... But now I just buy, like f- like if I buy red meat, I buy it by the pound, and I know that a pound of red meat reduces to .7, and I know what's in .7 of, uh, you know, ground beef or .7 of chicken. And so, yeah, that's how I do a lot of it now, uh, for weighing. Last question, um, and this is from me. I'm actually curious. Who influences you guys and what sources do you turn to for, like... Like for example, there's this guy, um, what's the guy on, uh, it, I think his name's BioLayne on Instagram. What's his name?

Nick Bare 41:13 Yeah, Layne Norton.

Sam Parr 41:14 Layne N-

Sahil Bloom 41:15 Layne Norton

Sam Parr 41:15 ... Layne, Layne Norton.

Nick Bare 41:15 Layne's great.

Sam Parr 41:16 So, like, I, like, he's, like, you know, New York Times did an article where they're like, "Now everyone has their own fitness guru who they trust." And so, like, Huberman is, like, a guy for someone. Nick, you're a guy for someone probably, where I'm like, if they say this,

Sam Parr 41:30 I do what they say. Who are your, your gurus, your fitness guys that you trust for health and nutrition, and what sources do you use?

Nick Bare 41:38 Layne Norton is definitely one for me. And I, what I like about Layne is, like, if anyone's ever saying something and it seems so ridiculous and bold and new and fresh, I will literally go over to Layne's platform and wait for him to do a response, 'cause he typically does. And like-

Sam Parr 41:58 I love his carnivore stuff and, like, the guy who says, like, vegetables are bad for you. Like-

Nick Bare 42:02 Yeah

Sam Parr 42:02 ... it's great.

Nick Bare 42:03 Yeah. L- Layne has, like, a really holistic science-based approach to health nutrition. He also has a really good app called Carbon that is great for people who wanna track their nutrition and, and reach their fitness goal. Like, fitness-wise, I follow Layne. I listen to some Huberman stuff. I'm typically just, like, I don't, I don't have one person I'm, I'm following for fitness and nutrition. I'm kind of just like- Having a pulse and feeling what's out there, and then if I hear about something, I'll go do my own research. So I'll read the actual articles and peer-reviewed literature to see what-

Sam Parr 42:40 What do you use for that? H- have you heard of... I've been using Perplexity for that. It's been kinda cool for... It's like a ChatGPT for studies.

Nick Bare 42:48 Interesting. Perplexity?

Sam Parr 42:50 Yeah, I have it bookmarked here, Perplexity, and it's, uh, uh, they do a bad job of explaining what it is, [chuckles] but it, they basically review tons of different studies so you don't have to read all of them and they'll-

Nick Bare 43:01 Mm

Sam Parr 43:01 ... and so you can ask, you can ask it a question of like, "Is aspartame proven to give cancer?" And it'll say like, "Well, of all these studies, here's what it, here's what they, here's the summary."

Nick Bare 43:11 I'll check that out. Lane, Lane has one called Reps. I also use examine.com.

Sam Parr 43:17 Same. Love them.

Nick Bare 43:17 Exa- examine.com is really good. And then I'll just go, like, to PubMed, PubMed and just, like, read the, the articles there. For, like, fitness, that's where I'm, like, pulling a lot of my info. Outside of fitness, um, just like audiobooks. Like, whenever I'm running, I'm typically listening to an audiobook, and-

Sam Parr 43:37 That's crazy to me.

Nick Bare 43:39 It-

Sam Parr 43:39 That's insane to me that you do that

Nick Bare 43:41 You c- you can't do that?

Sam Parr 43:43 Dude, no. Like, A, I don't pay attention, and B, like, it l- like u- usually what I like to do is, uh, I, like when I go for a run, I know how many... I like beat, uh, beat-per-minute songs, uh, you know, songs that are a certain beat per minute, and so my stride will go to that, that beat per minute, you know what I mean?

Nick Bare 44:01 Mm.

Sam Parr 44:01 Which is typically, like, like around 80 beat or 85 beats per minute.

Nick Bare 44:06 I used to do that. When I first started running, I would do that. But yeah, I'll listen to an audiobook and, like, 10 miles I forget I'm running for 10 miles. Like, I just-

Sam Parr 44:14 I listen to an audiobook during the marathon. I did the exact same thing.

Nick Bare 44:17 What?

Sam Parr 44:18 I listened to, uh, The Martian, Andy Weir's, uh, the sci-fi, uh, stuff.

Nick Bare 44:21 Dude, you guys are so weird. That is so weird to me. Dude, you know what book I, I just finished up that, like, I can't recommend enough? It's called Trust by Henry Cloud. If you guys haven't read that yet or heard of it, it's... I mean, maybe it's just hitting me at, like, the right time in my life, but it is a powerful, good book.

Sam Parr 44:40 What is it?

Nick Bare 44:41 It's all about, like, how to evaluate relationships and trust, how to regain or rebuild trust when you've been betrayed, what to look for in, in, in trusting someone. A lot of the times we think that trust is someone who just, like, won't lie, steal, or cheat. So, like, we'll hire people or bring people onto our team who meet those requirements. "Oh, they don't lie, steal, or cheat. I can trust them." Well, can we trust them in the capacity of the role that we're expecting them to perform?

Sam Parr 45:11 Dude, this is serial killer shit, that you can listen to a self-help book-

Nick Bare 45:14 [laughs]

Sam Parr 45:15 ... uh, while you're, like, while you're, like, running a marathon. I think that's so weird. Uh, like, I would read this book-

Sahil Bloom 45:22 But you, you went no headphones for the marathon, right, Nick?

Nick Bare 45:24 Yeah, yeah. I, I did no headphones.

Sam Parr 45:28 That's what ballers do, Sahil. Like, if, if you-

Sahil Bloom 45:30 Yeah, that is what ballers do

Sam Parr 45:31 ... like, I grew up going cross country-

Sahil Bloom 45:32 Everyone, like, real runners will definitely give you shit.

Sam Parr 45:33 Yeah, if you, like, go to a cross country practice or something and, like, you go run with headphones on, like, the, the hardcores will totally mock you. But I do it anyway-

Sahil Bloom 45:42 For sure

Sam Parr 45:42 ... because I'm like, "This is fun for me. I'm doing what I want."

Sahil Bloom 45:45 I mean-

Sam Parr 45:45 "I'm not trying to be hardcore"

Sahil Bloom 45:45 ... it was what Nick said at the beginning, by the way, which is, like, when you, uh, if you publicly state you're gonna hit some sort of, like, goals, um, the running, like, the, the running hardcores will definitely talk crap and troll you until you post proof that you actually did it and then you kind of, like, have earned enough clout. Like, I sort of feel like everyone made fun of me for getting into running and then I, like, posted some actual verifiable stats and now you... You know, now I'm, like, a solid amateur and people can't really make fun of you anymore, so now you've, like, you've, like, earned the respect of the crew-

Nick Bare 46:16 For sure

Sahil Bloom 46:16 ... like the cool kids in the, in the cafeteria. So now, like, they can't come beat you up.

Nick Bare 46:20 That's a real thing. That actually happens, yeah.

Sam Parr 46:22 What's your, what's your answer to that?

Sahil Bloom 46:24 Um, what's my answer to, uh, where I go to?

Sam Parr 46:27 Yeah. And who influences you?

Sahil Bloom 46:29 Um-

Sam Parr 46:29 Who's, like, your, your person?

Sahil Bloom 46:31 I mean, I grew up, um... So my baseball training, I was the first client of this guy named Eric Cressey, who has now become pretty famous. Um, he's the performance coach for the Yankees but is now, like, the Major League Baseball strength guy, like, trains Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander, all of, like, the who's who of baseball. And back then he was like-

Sam Parr 46:49 Dude, I feel like a baseball guy is the worst person to get fitness advice from. That's, like, the fattest sport there is.

Sahil Bloom 46:53 No, he was, like... No, he was, like, the, um, he was the first guy to, like, really bring strength and performance training to baseball, so it was that. It was, like, the fat guys or the steroid era guys who were just meatheads, and he brought, like, true performance training to the sport, which now is, like, the real driver of why every guy throws 100 miles an hour. Like, guys are hitting absolute tanks all the time. Like, he was really the pioneer of that. I mean, he's been on, like, Tim Ferriss' podcast. He's really, really big time and a close friend. Incredible. Uh, and then there's this guy Ben Bruno, who is, like, a celebrity trainer. Um, pretty big Instagram presence, and he's more of the, like, stuff for regular people to actually implement in their life, um, training. And, um, I, I just love that stuff 'cause it's kind of a cool blend of the, like, more extreme things that I like doing with the actionable stuff that people can actually take as advice.

Sam Parr 47:43 Yeah, Ben Bruno, he's got, like, the, uh, like, the everyday ripped guy vibe.

Sahil Bloom 47:49 He, he's super, super strong functionally, um, and trains, like, insane legit celebrities out of, like, a 150 square foot gym in his garage. Um-

Sam Parr 47:59 Yeah, here's him with Justin Timberlake.

Sahil Bloom 48:01 Yeah, Timberlake is, like, one of his, one of his good friends, rolls up there and trains with him. He's, he's incredible. Um, and then on diet stuff, there's this guy, um, Zach, I think Rocheleau is how you pronounce his last name. He's, like, theflexibledietinglifestyle is his Instagram handle, and he just posts, like, insane macro recipes basically. Um, things that are, like, delicious but don't completely screw up your diet, and I just, I nerd out on that kinda stuff.

Nick Bare 48:25 He's, he's Austin, Texas based.

Sahil Bloom 48:27 Yeah, he's Austin based.

Nick Bare 48:28 Yeah.

Sahil Bloom 48:29 Yeah.

Sam Parr 48:29 Dude, Nick, do you, you probably know, like, half these guys I would bet.

Nick Bare 48:32 I know, I know Zach. I know Zach personally. You know who else is really good? For a general health information, health and fitness infor- information for people just getting started is Jordan Syatt.

Sam Parr 48:44 Jordan Syatt.

Sahil Bloom 48:44 Mm, yeah.

Nick Bare 48:44 Jordan Syatt-

Sahil Bloom 48:45 So Jordan was an intern at Eric Cressey's gym. W- so h- Jordan is my year in high school. He went to Lincoln-Sudbury High School, which was, like, our rival high school, and he was an intern at Cressey's gym when I was training there. So I've known J- Jordan since we were, like, we were kids.

Nick Bare 48:59 Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, he's, he's, he's got good stuff.

Sam Parr 49:02 By the way, I just-

Sahil Bloom 49:02 Yeah, he was Gary Vee's trainer.

Sam Parr 49:04 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sahil Bloom 49:04 Or he still is.

Sam Parr 49:05 I saw that. I just went to this guy, The Flexible Dieting Lifestyle, and I'm, I'm, like, typing all this in as you guys are talking, and I'll, I'll do a little flex. I go to follow this guy, and it says, "Follow back."

Nick Bare 49:15 Oh [laughs] .

Sam Parr 49:16 So [laughs] .

Nick Bare 49:18 That's awesome.

Sahil Bloom 49:19 Zach is awesome. The protein ice cream recipes are, like, the best thing in the world.

Sam Parr 49:24 Yeah, he... This is a great Instagram. This guy kills it. Um-

Nick Bare 49:27 Do you have a Cr- do you have a CREAMi at home, Ninja CREAMi?

Sahil Bloom 49:30 I do. Oh, it's the best. One of our best purchases, my wife and I. Like, every Saturday.

Nick Bare 49:34 The Ninja CREAMi, you can make, like, protein ice cream with it. They were, like, they got popular based off of TikTok early on, and they, like, were sold out for months, and then they finally came back on the market and we purchased one.

Sam Parr 49:48 Well, I used to do that. So what I do with your... So, uh, BPN, so I like to do, uh, ascent protein with just water, and then I use BPN to, like, eat. And so, like, for example, I'll mix it with some type of liquid and I'll microwave BPN, and it's almost like I'm eating, like, um, I don't, I don't know. I mean, it's like a dessert. 'Cause you gave me-

Sahil Bloom 50:07 Dude

Sam Parr 50:07 ... the key lime pie one, and then you gave me a birthday cake one, and I think the birthday cake one is discontinued.

Sahil Bloom 50:13 It is.

Sam Parr 50:13 And I would just, we would microwave it and just eat it, and it was like a, a soufflé or something. Now I guess I'll use BPN for this CREAMi.

Sahil Bloom 50:20 Sam, I will change your life right now. Two cups of whole milk, like Fairlife whole milk, a scoop of BPN vanilla, uh, maybe, like, two tiny little packets of stevia, and some, uh, sugar-free vanilla pudding mix. Freeze it overnight, put it into the Ninja CREAMi, and it is literally identical to, like, a vanilla McDonald's McFlurry.

Sam Parr 50:44 Really?

Sahil Bloom 50:44 It comes out insane. And then you can put a couple, like, Oreo Thins in there and get, like, a legit McDonald's McFlurry that has, like, 40 grams of protein and is great for you.

Sam Parr 50:54 Shoot, this is awesome. I'm, like, literally writing all this down and I'm, I just added the CREAMi to my cart.

Sahil Bloom 50:58 It will change your life. I'm not joking.

Nick Bare 51:00 It is, it is pretty wild. I, I did it my first time, and, like, I only mixed it once and it came out, I was like, "What's this?"

Sahil Bloom 51:06 Yeah, you gotta go twice.

Nick Bare 51:06 So I did it twice. Completely different thing. The s- after, like, one more mix.

Sahil Bloom 51:11 Yeah. Light ice cream setting once. Open it up, pour, like, a tiny, uh, like a tablespoon of whole milk in, and then blend it on light ice cream again and it makes the perfect consistency.

Sam Parr 51:22 All right. I j- literally just bought it off Amazon, the CREAMi. And I'll, uh, I only have, um-

Sahil Bloom 51:26 It's the best

Sam Parr 51:26 ... I gotta get, uh, BPN vanilla now, 'cause I only did chocolate, birthday cake, and key lime pie. Um-

Sahil Bloom 51:32 I wanna hear about this 2:39, though. I'm gonna nerd out on this.

Sam Parr 51:35 Yeah. So Nick, w- you're trying to run 2:39 now for the marathon, right?

Nick Bare 51:39 No, I just did. So-

Sam Parr 51:40 You just did.

Nick Bare 51:42 At CIM, which is the California International Marathon, that was December 3rd, I ran a 2:39:20. And when I went into that prep, I was shooting for a sub-2:45, and s- and sub-2:45 is about a 6:15 minute per mile pace. Ended up doing 6:05

Nick Bare 52:00 minute per mile pace for all 26.2 of those miles.

Sahil Bloom 52:04 Can you just walk through your progression on the marathon stuff? 'Cause I feel like I've seen a video. So I, I mean, I only, I started running in March, and someone mentioned your name as soon as I started getting into running as, like, the person that was pioneering this whole idea of, like, hybrid athlete, whatever. It's kind of become, like, an in vogue thing now. But basically a guy that can be both jacked and fit in cardio things. Not CrossFit, like, actual, you know, strength-related stuff and then, and then running. And I remember seeing a video of you, like, a four-hour marathon maybe, um, and your progression from that to running maybe sub-3 for the first time. Can you just walk through, like, what your progression has been from start to finish on the different marathons you've done?

Nick Bare 52:45 Yeah. Well, first off, when, when you and I first started talking and you said you wanted to do a, a sub-3 for your first marathon-

Sahil Bloom 52:52 I thought he was crazy when he said that

Nick Bare 52:53 ... dude, so did I. I was like, man, that's, that's... I think I even told you, I was like, that's a bold move. But you did it.

Sahil Bloom 52:59 [laughs]

Nick Bare 52:59 So con- congratulations on that. Um, but yeah, my, my, my marathon progression. So my first marathon was in 2018. It was about a year after I got out of the military. And what's funny is the day I got out of the military, I said I would never run a day in my life again. And about a year later, was running my first marathon, and here we are, like, thousands of miles later. But 2018 Austin Marathon, I ran a 3:57, which was just an absolute dumpster fire.

Sahil Bloom 53:31 But you weighed, like, 225, right?

Nick Bare 53:33 I was, like, 225. I didn't have a, a training program. I was a bodybuilder. Like, I was just, I just wanted to be as big and yoked as possible. Ran this marathon. After mile 16 I hit the wall. It was just all downhill from there. A year later, I signed up for the Austin Marathon again. Same training program, which was lack thereof, and I ran a 4 hour 15 minute marathon. So I, I ran 18 minutes slower than the previous year. And then after that, I signed up for my first Ironman. Trained for an Ironman, did Ironman Florida. Actually started to learn what it takes to build endurance and get better at endurance events and races.

Sahil Bloom 54:16 You broke 12 hours in that one?

Nick Bare 54:18 Yeah, I did my Iron- Ironman Florida in 11:28, but I ran the marathon in four hours and four minutes. So the reason that was so kind of significant was I looked back at my previous two marathons. I was like, man, after I just swam and biked and then ran, I was able to run a pretty decent marathon. So I told myself I wanna run sub-3, and that was the goal. And I, I, I posted this online. I said, "I'm doing a sub-3 hour marathon," and the internet trolls and activity just blew up. I mean, there are forums on Let's Run, there are forums on, on, on Reddit. Everyone was like, "This guy will not run a sub-3 hour marathon." So then I signed up for the Austin Marathon again. I, I followed a training program. It was a better prep. But even in my head I was like, "I'm not in sub-3 shape." But at the starting line I told myself, "You can mentally out-will anything." I was like, if I just like, I can mentally overcome the physical weakness that I have to run the sub-3 hour marathon.

Sam Parr 55:24 And what's sub-3? Is sub-3 6.50 per mile?

Sahil Bloom 55:27 I think 6.51 is, like, 2:59.59. Like, if you sneak in under one second. And the only reason I know that is because of exactly what Nick said about mine, that everyone was like, "Dude, there's no way." So I knew in my mind, like, I just have to keep this under 6.51, my watch pace, and [laughs] I'm gonna be fine.

Nick Bare 55:43 See, I like banking time, so I always like... I like saving time so at the end if I need it I, I have it.

Sahil Bloom 55:50 Which is the opposite of what, like, real runners tell you to do. I did the same thing, by the way. Like, I went out way too fast and then was just, like, hanging on for dear life, doing the math in my head of like, "Okay, if I run, like, a 10-minute mile here, I'm still gonna make it. I'm still gonna [laughs] ..."

Sam Parr 56:03 Because there's the, like, they call it the wall. The wall is basically, I think it's, like, when you burn 1,800 or 2,200 calories or something like that and you start going into... What's it called where you, like, start using muscle as energy, I believe? Or, uh-

Nick Bare 56:15 At a mole

Sam Parr 56:16 ... instead of car- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nick Bare 56:17 Yeah.

Sam Parr 56:17 And, and that's when that wall is where you're like, "I can't go any further." Usually that's in, like, mile 20, right?

Nick Bare 56:22 Yeah, it ranges, yeah, based off the individual of, like, your conditioning, your experience, glycogen stores, how, how fast you burn through your body's energy. So I went out that Austin Marathon with the goal of running sub-3. I went out way too fast and within the first six miles I knew I wasn't gonna do sub-3. Like, I, in the first six miles I was done for. And the Austin Marathon is not flat. It's, it's hills, it's, it's, like, a horrible PR course. No one PR's that I know of at the Austin Marathon. So then the remainder of that race I was just holding on. Ended up running 3:24, so 24 minutes over sub-3. Everyone on the internet that doubted me loved it. And I went and do another training block immediately after that race was done. I actually did a real prep this time, had a really solid coach, Jeff Cunningham, and I ended up running a marathon a year later in 2 hours 56 minutes 27 seconds. So that was the first time I went sub-3. Then a year later I did the Buffalo, New York Marathon in 2:48. And then just recently, December 3rd, 2023, I ran a 2:39:20, which is a 6.05-

Sam Parr 57:40 God

Nick Bare 57:40 ... mile pace.

Sam Parr 57:42 What weight were you?

Nick Bare 57:43 I was 195 pounds.

Sahil Bloom 57:45 Oh, my God. That's ridiculous at 195.

Sam Parr 57:48 And were you-

Sahil Bloom 57:48 I mean, it's ridiculous at any, at any body weight-

Sam Parr 57:50 Were you-

Sahil Bloom 57:50 ... but it's insane at 195.

Sam Parr 57:52 Were you still squatting and benching while you... I mean, were you still strong?

Nick Bare 57:56 I, I, I took a lot of time off strength training during that prep. So for, like, 13 weeks leading up to that race I was still lifting here and there, but I wasn't lifting legs heavy. I wasn't lifting even upper body really heavy. I was just getting some movement in just to maintain and feel good. But the priority was, was running. And I told-

Sam Parr 58:19 Because what a lot of runners don't realize is, like... So 2:39, that's, that's impressive. That's very impressive. But it's more impressive that you're doing it at your body weight. That is, that is, that is, like, out of this world. I, um, I got dinner one time recently with, uh, this guy named Josh Kerr. Do you guys know who Josh Kerr is? Unless you're a running n- nerd you don't know who he is. But he won the world ch- he won the World Championships recently in the 1,500 meter. He's, like, a 3:45 miler, so one of the fastest milers ever, whatever. But he's pretty big for a miler. For a normal human being you'd think he's skinny, but for a miler he's big. And I started talking to him and I was like, "You're pretty big. Uh, how'd you do this?" He goes, "Man..." He's from, uh, Scotland, I think. He goes, "When I, I came to America when I was 17 to go to college, and I was training for the mile and I, but I wasn't used to having fast food and, like, having restaurants open 24 hours a day. And so I got fat, like, my first semester there and I weighed 200 pounds and I broke the mile when I was 17 or 18 that year when I weighed 200 pounds." He goes, "I think I own the world record for the fattest sub-4 mile." And, like, 200 pounds for, like, just a guy who's six foot, that's not huge. But to be able to run that time or the time even that, uh, you're running, or even Sahil, you're pretty big too. For running those times with that weight, that's just, like, inconceivable not only because it's hard, but what's inconceivable is that you're not getting hurt running 50 to 80 miles a week leading up to it. That's what's, like, in my mind the most impressive part here.

Nick Bare 59:43 Yeah, I mean, when I first started running I, I had a lot of injuries just because my, my body m- mechanics weren't super efficient. So I've had knee injuries, uh, quads, ankles, shins, calves, like, everything. But now as I've, I've run longer with more miles my body has become pretty efficient at form and function and I rarely get injured anymore, unless I do, like, a, an ultramarathon.

Sahil Bloom 1:00:15 I had two, um... You know, from my training I just had two, like, random life lesson type things from the running that I'm curious, Nick, if you've experienced these. One was before my marathon I was trying to figure out, like, how to just, like, mentally take on, um, the goal of running sub-3 for it and how to think about, like, if I'm six miles into the race and I realize I'm not gonna hit it, how to make sure I still finish the race and don't just, like, mentally completely lose it. And this marathoner told me that- For every single race or anything that you're going after, you wanna have basically three goals. He was like, "You have your A goal, which is the main thing you're trying to hit, and then you have a B goal, which is, like, just slightly worse, and then you have a C goal, which is just, like, finish the damn race." And you can alwa- like, you lock in on your A goal from the start, but if you start falling off that and realize you're not gonna hit it, you need something to fall back on that keeps you motivated when you're in it, and so you have your B goal. And then the C goal is just get to the finish line. And I have taken that and, like, run with it in every area of life now. Like, no matter what it is, if you have a fitness goal, like a daily fitness goal, you wanna, you know, run every day and work out every day, it's good to have that A goal, but the reality is that, like, shit hits the fan sometimes. Like, your kid is up all night or, you know, like, you have a problem at home or something at work pops up. And so having that idea of, like, what is the B goal, maybe it's a slightly lower version, and then the C goal is like, I'm just gonna go for a walk and get 15 minutes of movement in. That has helped me so much in terms of just, like, navigating the vagaries of life that inevitably hit when you know you're not gonna have your perfect day every single day.

Nick Bare 1:01:51 Yeah, and, and it's like the mindset of, like, all or nothing. It's like you see so many people at every marathon, every race, it's very applicable to anything else in life, but, like, you see these elite runners go out, and as soon as they fall off of pace, they drop out. They just fall to the side. And I was actually talking to Ken Rideout a few weeks ago when he was on, uh, my podcast, and now he lives right down the road from me here in, in Nashville. But he was telling me when he did Kona Ironman years and years and years ago, during the race, he realized he wasn't gonna hit the time he wanted, so he just dropped out of the race. And he, I mean, him and his family traveled to Hawaii for this race, so there's a lot of time, effort, energy, money going into it. He dropped out of the race, and he said it was, like, his greatest regret ever. So he, he forced himself to go back the next year for, for redemption just to prove to himself that he could do it. But I think the, the feelings and the emotions and just everything that's created when you quit something and drop out 'cause you weren't on pace for that A goal, I mean, that's like self-destruction. That hurts so much more than not actually finishing the race.

Sahil Bloom 1:03:04 The other thing that's funny to me about, uh, all runners that I feel like they've gone through, you said it, like, with your first marathon or, uh, when you left the military you were like, "I'm never gonna run again. I'm done with this." It's like, um, it's like women after they have, um, after they have babies. There's, like, that chemical that gets released that makes them forget how much it hurts going through childbirth. I think the same thing happens with running, it just is, like, a little more delayed. Like, when I finished my marathon, I was like, "Fuck this. I'm never running another marathon in my..." Like, that was the most painful thing I had ever experienced. Like, the last six miles, I wouldn't wish that on my worst damn enemy in the world. And then, like, two weeks later I'm like, "Hmm, like, which one should I sign up for next year? Like, I gotta go 249. I gotta do this."

Nick Bare 1:03:44 Yeah, I mean, like, it's, I'm the same way with ultras. Like, I finish an ultra and I'm out for two weeks, I can't walk, my, like, toenails are falling off. And I talk to my wife, I'm like, "This is, this was stupid. Why did I do this? I'm useless. I can't help out at home." And I find myself signing up for another ultra shortly after.

Sam Parr 1:04:00 Dude, your Ultra documentary was so good. I, I remember I, like, had... I subscribed for, like, the premiere, so I was, like, sitting at my TV waiting for it to come out. It was an hour long about Leadville, I think, right?

Nick Bare 1:04:12 Yeah.

Sam Parr 1:04:12 Uh, it was so good. I remember I was, like, one of the first ones. I was like, "All right, it's coming up at this time, Sarah. Let's sit down and watch it." And what's crazy about you is, like, there's this whole thing where these people who wanna talk in cliches are like every media or every company should be a media company, yada, yada, yada. And the thing is, they mostly suck at it. You're actually one of the few guys that has, like, your supplements, they meet... I don't know what the grade is, but you know. I know, uh, I've talked to you and I've talked to other people about it, and your competitors will be like, "Yeah, BPN, they, they meet this particular grade. They are of high quality." But you also, you nail that, the supplement thing, but then you also are nailing the media thing, and no one else, or very few other people, are doing that, where they're, you're actually really nailing it. It's almost you could argue that your media is even better than the supplements because supplements, like, I don't

Sam Parr 1:05:00 know how the industry works, but it seems like yeah, they're, like, these five are great, but your media is awesome.

Nick Bare 1:05:05 I appreciate that.

Sam Parr 1:05:06 You had, like, it looked like you had three or four guys following you around the whole time. Your wife was there. I feel like I know her because of, of the videos. And then she was following you on Instagram or, and talking about your splits. And these guys had these beautiful cameras. It was just, like, it, it was a great documentary. How many views did that have?

Nick Bare 1:05:24 The Leadville doc now has, I think, like, more than a half million.

Sam Parr 1:05:28 It was so good, man. It was so good. Are you, did you come up with that storyline, or do you just hire a good, a good team?

Nick Bare 1:05:36 That's my creative director, Jordan, in-house here.

Sam Parr 1:05:38 Where's he from?

Nick Bare 1:05:40 Jordan is from Ohio geographically. But he was just, when I met him, he was employee number four at BPN, and he was filming for another YouTuber when I met him as a freelancer. And I was looking for a videographer at the time because this was 2019. At the time, I was still filming and editing all my own videos.

Sam Parr 1:06:03 That's crazy. That's a shit ton of work.

Nick Bare 1:06:05 I mean, all I did, all, literally all I did was work. And 2019 was the, the first time I was able to bring someone on, but I was looking for, like, over a year for the right person. I would fly people down. They would stay with me. I'd meet them. We'd film something. It just didn't feel right, so I didn't pursue it. Met Jordan, it felt right. He moved down, creative director. He led my content for a while, then he went and led BPN's content for a while, and now he's back working directly on my content again. But he came up with a storyline, the, the whole production, the scouting, the editing process. Obviously, we had a lot of guys on the team supporting that editing and, and filming and, and production, but Jordan led that, that project. We just launched the Last Man Standing Ultra that he led and created with Ian Rodriguez here on my team, and we posted the CIM race video Monday. But yeah, Jordan is a super talented creative.

Sahil Bloom 1:07:10 What's your... How much are you spending per year on a team for content? And h- are you able to... Are you tracking the ROI, or is this just, like, a thing where you're like, "I'm, I'm pretty sure it's working"?

Nick Bare 1:07:20 It's a, "I'm pretty sure it's working." I mean, our, our media team is... I mean, with videog- just videographers, photographers, we have 10. But then we have our s- social team. And a l- a lot of my business decisions as, like, as an entrepreneur, one thing I've learned, and I think we were talking about this when, when you were on my podcast a few months ago, is that I make a lot of my decisions, and I've made a lot of my decisions in business based off of intuition and gut feeling. I never looked at the P&L. I never looked at the balance sheet. If I had this feeling that it was working and I could feel momentum and I had a pulse on it, I was just like, "Keep, keep spending, keep hiring." Then, finally at one point, I h- I hired operators, a CFO, a CEO, and they're like, "Hey, we gotta put some, some guardrails around this." But, like, all of my decisions in business have been intuition, gut. If it feels right, I'm gonna do it. I have a, I have a feeling there's gonna be an ROI. I might not be able to measure it, but I can subjectively tell if it's gonna work or it is working.

Sahil Bloom 1:08:34 Is it separate at all? Like, the Nick Bare Fitness platform and your personal social media, is that separate from BPN as, like, a functional entity? Or are the people, like the videographers, the 10 people, is that all under BPN?

Nick Bare 1:08:46 Yeah, the whole process has, has changed significantly over the last couple years. So originally it was all one team, and then at one point we separated out where I have, now have the Nick Bare Fitness business and then the Bare Performance Nutrition business. So they were, like, two separate teams.

Sahil Bloom 1:09:07 And the Nick Bare Fitness business is your app, right?

Nick Bare 1:09:11 It's, it's, uh-

Sahil Bloom 1:09:11 Your app and your channel?

Nick Bare 1:09:12 Yeah, it's like my, my content, my IP, uh, my, my channel, my training app, stuff like that. I used to do brand deals. I don't do any brand deals anymore.

Sahil Bloom 1:09:25 Dude, Hoka should've been paying you, like, seven figures a year. I bought Hokas because of you, 'cause I saw... I was like, "Oh, big guy wears Hokas. Hokas is the thing."

Nick Bare 1:09:32 The amount of, the amount of Hoka Rincons I sold when I first started running has to be absolutely ridiculous. So just talking about the separation, we separated out Nick Bare Fitness team and BPN team for a while. Really, it, it made no sense of what we were doing and why we were doing it. Just, I just thought it was the professional move to take in that next step and stage of business. Now we've brought it all back into one entity. I still have the Nick Bare Fitness business, but everyone that is working on media is on BPN payroll, is a BPN team member. And all the content we're creating is in the hope of building the supplement business. Now, the teams are separated and working on different projects. Like, I have my creative director, Jordan, who's leading my content; Ian, who's working on my content; Everett, who's a podcast producer; and then we have videographers, creatives that are working on just BPN stuff. But there's definitely crossover, and the lines are blur- blurrier than they used to be.

Sahil Bloom 1:10:37 Do you think that dings your valuation if you ever wanted to sell the company, because it's so tied onto you?

Nick Bare 1:10:44 I don't know if it, it dings the valuation, but I definitely think that a process and a sale would come with a whole lot of structure, a lot of IP, well, IP negotiations and possibly issues.

Nick Bare 1:11:00 Um-

Sahil Bloom 1:11:01 I feel like it's less than you think, actually. I, um, I was always impressed. So I had actually taken BPN supplements before knowing you and had no idea who you were or that you were involved. They had just, like, popped up as one of the supplements I was taking. I actually know-

Nick Bare 1:11:15 But that's not, that's not the bulk, you think? You think, Sahil, that's the bulk of customers?

Sahil Bloom 1:11:18 Honestly, I have no idea. I just remember, like, back in my private equity days, we looked at, um, Onnit. You remember that brand?

Nick Bare 1:11:23 Yeah.

Sahil Bloom 1:11:24 I don't know if it's still around. Onnit was selling, and it was like-

Nick Bare 1:11:26 Yeah, they had a huge exit

Sahil Bloom 1:11:27 ... well, it was so tied to Joe Rogan and what was his name? Aubrey-

Nick Bare 1:11:30 Marcus

Sahil Bloom 1:11:31 ... um, yeah, Aubrey Marcus. And that was, like, when we were looking at it, private equity guys, like, that's their biggest fear is, like, "Oh, how involved are these two guys?" Like, is it a key man risk? All this stuff. And then ultimately they ended up getting to an amazing exit with somebody. And you know, they put guardrails around it. They get, like, key man insurance or whatever it is. Um, but I, I would... I'm, I mean, I'd be interested to find out. Actually, like, run a survey of your customers. Like, what proportion actually end up coming through you and your media versus now just, like, the flywheel is spinning, SEO is there, um, and the business kind of just, you know, is self-propagating. Well, that's been the fear with my businesses, which is I don't wanna make it me. I wanna make it its own thing. But me or Nick or Sahil, like, that gets initial base, but it's like, at what point do you... when do you make the transition? And it's a, that's a challenging... Th- there's a, I don't know the answer to that question, and I'm afraid of the repercussions of making the wrong, the making the wrong choice. You know what I mean?

Nick Bare 1:12:29 Yeah. Uh, that- that's been a topic of discussion for the last couple years with us and trying to figure out how to navigate that. And for a while I kept leaning into, okay, well, let's separate in the hopes of building BPN away from myself so that it's separate and distinct and can stand on its own. But what I've, I'd found by doing that is the separation created this loss of vision and brand. So I've kind of just, like, flipped my whole thought process on that and said, "Screw whatever happens in the future," and I'm gonna lean fully back in, and I don't care really how it affects valuation or the end process anymore. I'm just gonna build a brand that I'm really proud of and the way I wanna build it, and whatever happens, happens. And if someone comes knocking on my door in the next couple years and says, like, "Hey, we love what you're doing. Let's talk." But if you don't like it, you know, I just wanna make sure I'm enjoying the process and not building a business based off of KPIs and milestones.

Sam Parr 1:13:33 And I bet you're... I mean, I have, I have no idea. I've never seen you comment on this, but I would, I would have to assume the app that you have, how much do you charge, 50 bucks a month or something?

Nick Bare 1:13:43 Uh, it's $19.99 a month.

Sam Parr 1:13:45 So I would have to imagine that's doing well, too, right?

Nick Bare 1:13:50 I mean, I, I make much more money outside of BPN than I make personally with BPN.

Sam Parr 1:13:56 Yeah, I mean, I, I think it's killing it. Sahil, have you ever thought about doing it?

Sahil Bloom 1:14:00 Yeah, I mean, that type of business model is incredible, right? It's just, like, the ultimate scalability, and, you know, as your personal brand... Like, it just for you, as you think about reinvesting cash flows into your brand building, it just makes, it, it, it makes it so much more dynamic because you can run all of your media stuff at break even if you want to. Like, you can just reinvest all the cash that you're generating from YouTube ads, from the app, from any of those things into creating better and better content, and create this massive flywheel and just count on BPN as the, like, long-term upside bet. Um-

Sam Parr 1:14:32 Yeah, but if I had to bet, I, I bet you, Nick, if I had to bet, Nick has probably been, even though his net worth has skyrocketed, I... If I had to bet, you l- you've lived relatively poor compared to the net worth that you've created, cash flow poor, and now you probably taste this and you're like, "Okay, finally I can afford, like, uh, uh, to live like I wanna live as opposed to just living on $80,000 a year."

Nick Bare 1:14:57 Yeah, I mean, for the first... I, I didn't take any money out of the business for the first five years.

Sam Parr 1:15:05 What do you get, like, just, like, a, like, an army or you get, like, a military stipend or something for a few years?

Nick Bare 1:15:09 Yeah, so it worked, it, it worked well because I started the business 2012. 2017 is the year I transitioned out of the Army, so I actually had to start paying myself then, me and my brother, who moved down from Pennsylvania to help us build a business. We signed our first warehouse lease that year. It was the first year we hit seven figures in revenue, and it was also, like, the most challenging year of my entire life because I didn't know anything about financing inventory. I didn't know anything about leveraging debt. I didn't know anything about taking out l- business loans or utilizing lines of credit. Cash flow was an absolute nightmare. The only money I thought I had to spend was the money that was in the bank account. We had no terms with manufacturers. Like, 2017 was arguably the, the worst and hardest year of my life, but also the best year of my life, that if I could go relive any year right now, it'd be that year.

Sam Parr 1:16:04 That's insane.

Sahil Bloom 1:16:05 That's one thing, by the way, like, just the, the timeframe on all of this. I feel like people don't appreciate time as a lever for growth on anything, um, as much as they should. And actually, like, people in fitness and athletes understand it better because they understand that, like, growing slowly is the game and just getting better slowly. Like, when I look at your YouTube channel and go to most popular videos, a bunch of these videos, like, you've been at this for years and years. There's, like, six-year-old video, four-year-old video, three-year-old video, like, eight-year-old video, the 10,000-calorie cheat day challenge. Like, some of this stuff, you've just been at it, and I know you just said it. You were editing these. Like, you were actually on the ground spending the, like, 100-hour weeks doing this stuff for a long, long time. It wasn't like you all of a sudden popped up and had this unbelievable, you know, production quality that you have today. So I, I also just think, like, appreciating time as a lever for growth on these fronts is incredible.

Nick Bare 1:16:59 That is one, one thing that's been a powerful skill for myself over this last decade plus is just the consistency at which I've just kept doing the thing. But even the one thing Sam and I talked about when he was on my podcast, I think you were, you were going to do, like, a speech, and you, you were back in, like, the green room before going out to do the speech, and you're talking to all these high-worth individuals who are super powerful, and they're all sitting there super insecure and scared and nervous and, like-

Sam Parr 1:17:30 Yeah

Nick Bare 1:17:31 ... you're like, "Holy shit, these people aren't any more secure, confident, or better than me." And I think once you realize that, that I have all the skills that I need to take whatever is I, I wanna take to the top, I just have to apply it. Because I used to think, and I went through this phase where I was like, "Okay, I'll get this business. I'll get this thing to this, this level," but at some point I'm not gonna be smart enough, so I'm gonna have to outsource people to come in and, and take it from where I build it to where it needs or can go. And sometimes you do that, but you don't have to, and I've realized that there's no one smarter than me that's gonna take this business to the level it needs to go. I just have to be super consistent at this approach for a long period of time, and it's gonna pay off in dividends.

Sam Parr 1:18:18 But you did hire a CEO. I think, what are you, a year into that?

Nick Bare 1:18:22 A little over a year. Yep.

Sam Parr 1:18:23 How's that?

Nick Bare 1:18:24 It's been great. I mean, the, the main reason I wanted to step out of the CEO role, and I, I wasn't actively looking to hire a CEO. But Kat came into the business first as kind of just an advisor, and then she joined as the chief revenue officer, leaning into more operations. And then we just had a conversation one day. I was like, "Hey, would you ever wanna be CEO?" 'Cause I really just wanna, like, focus on creating content and brand building. And she's like, "Yeah, if you want me to be CEO, I'll be CEO."

Nick Bare 1:19:00 So we made the switch because the business got to a point and a size where I wasn't spending my time on the things that I was passionate about anymore. I was spending my time on, like, people management, and lawsuits, and retail, and finances, and P&L, and balance sheets. And I was like, "This is all, like, super critical, important stuff, but I don't love it. I wanna focus on what I love, and that's creating content, that's building brand, that's getting people jacked up, that's talking about the products, it's working on new product innovation." And that's why I wanted to make that change, which has been, like, much harder than I thought it would be. And I'm only now a year in of that transition really finding my lane. But this last year for me has been an interesting one.

Sam Parr 1:19:51 Dude, and it's hard. So I, I have a CEO too. We'll be at one year in a couple months. And it's hard because you want to be a good, I don't know what it's called, a good partner with your CEO, where you want them to make mistakes and you want them to ha- you know, put their flavor in stuff, 'cause you gotta let a CEO do that. But then at the same time you're like, "But I already did all this, and I can tell you what the outcome of this is gonna be," or, uh, you know, m- it's just like y- it's really, it's a, it's a har- it's like getting married where you, and but not living together right away. And so you get married, and then you move in, and you're like, "Oh, you're fucking, quit leaving the cap off the toothpaste." And it's like, well, no, you can't, like, bitch about little stuff. You gotta let them do what they wanna do. You know what I mean?

Nick Bare 1:20:34 Yeah.

Sam Parr 1:20:34 It's, like, kinda weird. It's like a, it's like a weird, it, there's, it's a weird thing, but you have to learn how to, like, manage each other, and it's, and it is a challenge.

Nick Bare 1:20:42 At any point-

Sam Parr 1:20:42 But when it works, it's hard, it's a, it's the best.

Nick Bare 1:20:45 At any point, do you feel the need to jump back into the CEO role?

Sam Parr 1:20:50 Well, in my, when I get pissed off, I'll be like, "I gotta do this." And then I'll get, like, end of week or end of month updates, and I'm like, oh my God, Jordan is so much better at me than all of these things. And I, and, and also, like, I would've done this different, this different, this different. And those three things I probably would've been wrong about. So, like, the, the name of the game isn't being right 100% of the time. The name of the game is being right for the right things most of the time. And I just had to, like, kinda, like, have empathy and put myself in his shoes, and that helped a lot. But, uh, no, like when I, on a bad day when I get pissed off, I'm like, "I should do this." And then 99% of the time I'm like, "You are more talented than I am at so many things. I cannot do this." Um-

Nick Bare 1:21:33 Yeah, I think sometimes too when you're, when you're far removed from the position for an extended period of time, you forget all of the bad things you have to, you used to deal with.

Sam Parr 1:21:43 Yeah.

Nick Bare 1:21:43 And, like, you only remember the good. You're like, "Man, I kind of miss this." And then you get exposed to all the, the things, the bad things that you don't miss-

Sam Parr 1:21:50 You're like, "This is too much."

Nick Bare 1:21:50 No, you got it. You run with it. [laughs]

Sahil Bloom 1:21:53 It also kind of, I, it, just before you jump forward from that, Sam, it, um, it also differs greatly w- between, like, a true business operations endeavor and a creative endeavor.

Nick Bare 1:22:04 Yeah.

Sahil Bloom 1:22:05 Like, you couldn't step away and truly have a CEO just, like, running your content apparatus. Because it would lose, it would lose the, like, the Nick soul that is in it, that's in every single piece of content that exists. You can, like, build your team around it, but you actually being in that creatively, um, I think is so key. There was this, um, I think it, like, it was Jerry Seinfeld, um, did a interview with I think it was, like, the Harvard Business Review, and they, uh, they asked him about the fact that him and Larry David basically, like, wrote every episode of Seinfeld, and after nine years they had basically burned out. And so the show just had to end because they had burned out on doing it. And the Harvard Business Review was like, "Could you have hired McKinsey, uh, to come in and-"

Nick Bare 1:22:46 Yeah

Sahil Bloom 1:22:46 ... like, help you find a better model and design something?" And Jerry Seinfeld said, "Who's McKinsey?" And they said, "It's a consulting firm." [laughs] And Seinfeld responded, uh, "Are they funny?" And [laughs] and basically his point was, you don't, like, I don't need them if they're not funny, because the efficient way of doing the creative thing is actually the wrong way. And what he said is, "The right way is the hard way." The show was successful because they did it the hard way. They micromanaged every single detail of the creative process, and they really had their soul in it. And so I think that, like, your creative success and what has allowed all your businesses to thrive are also fundamentally tied to the fact that you have your soul in every single piece of content that you guys are putting together.

Nick Bare 1:23:25 Yeah. No, I agree with that. I, I think sometimes entrepreneurship and building a business and, and founding a company, from the outside looking in, like, people make it seem easy. So it's romanticized and everyone's like, "Oh, I could start a business. I could do it." And then you finally do it, and, like, you have this passion about everything you're building, but then it gets hard. And then it gets challenging, and then it grows. And then, you know, your passions are sidelined for the priorities other, of the, for other parts of the business. But it's just maintaining that consistent work ethic even when you're working on things that you truly weren't passionate about in the beginning, but you know it drives business and leads you to an ultimate end goal.

Sam Parr 1:24:11 Well, guys, uh, I appreciate you coming on. Uh, it was a little impromptu, but this is fun. I just like hanging out with you guys and, and learning. Um, Nick, uh, Sahil, I'm close to Sahil, so I don't have to say this to him, but Nick, I've, uh, I've looked up to you for, uh, a while now, and I appreciate you doing this. Sahil, I appreciate you doing this too. This is awesome.

Nick Bare 1:24:30 No, thanks guys. Appreciate the opportunity.

Sam Parr 1:24:33 All right. That's the pod. [upbeat music]