By playing, you agree to uListen's Terms and Privacy Policy and YouTube's Terms of Service.
My First MillionSaas Companies that Anyone Can Start with Rob Walling
Summaries, chapters, transcripts, and FAQs on this page are made by uListen, not YouTube.
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 5:49
A Fly-In Airline Neighborhood and Niche Communities
Sam describes a friend's 5,000-acre project in the South that combines an airstrip, hangars, houses and hotels, and says he is flying down on the friend's jet to see it. He and Ben discuss who would live there and how people may increasingly congregate around hobbies and niches.
- •The development puts houses along a runway, like a golf-course community built around planes
- •Sam says buyers need only enough money for something like a $200,000 plane, and are often older
- •Sam says he would only buy a vacation home if he could rent it out profitably
- •Ben suggests remote workers may cluster around hobbies or diets
- •Sam says he would buy in New York the day short-term rentals are allowed
- 5:49 – 11:15
Sam's Defense of Elizabeth Holmes Resurfaces on Hacker News
Ben and Sam discuss Elizabeth Holmes's conviction and the 2015 article Sam wrote defending Theranos, which reached the front page of Hacker News. Sam explains his reasoning, admits he was wrong about her, and says he kept the article up on purpose.
- •Sam's 2015 article was headlined 'The Coverage of Theranos is Utter Bullshit'
- •He says the underlying point was that we build founders up and then turn on them
- •Part of why he trusted Theranos was that investor Tim Draper backed it
- •Sam says he left the article online so people can see his misses as well as his hits
- 11:15 – 15:41
Ben's Family Board Meeting and Year-End Stats
Ben explains a new family tradition of presenting the past year and next year's goals at a 'family board meeting', for which he dressed as Steve Jobs. He shares the stats his wife tracked from their first year as parents.
- •Each person presents on their year as a slide deck or memo to the family board
- •Ben says it was played for laughs but gave a chance to reflect
- •His wife's stats included 350 gallons of milk, 104 nights on the floor and 1,800 hours nursing
- •Their daughter's favorite Halloween book was read 62 times
- 15:41 – 21:16
Spouses Earning More, Prenups and Rob Joins
Sam asks Ben how it feels that his wife out-earns him, and the talk turns to marriage and money, with Rob Walling joining to bring up The Millionaire Next Door and how prenups work. Sam then goes live and introduces Rob, who talks about the rapport from Sam's visit to his podcast.
- •Ben says he wants to out-earn his wife over a full year but is happy for her career
- •Sam says marrying the right spouse is the best financial decision
- •Rob cites The Millionaire Next Door finding that most millionaires never divorced
- •Rob says his wife has out-earned him at times, such as when he started TinySeed
- •Sam's wife became a liquid millionaire two months before he did
- 21:16 – 25:34
Renaming a Podcast and the Difficulty of Naming
Rob and Sam discuss whether My First Million should change its name, and how changing a podcast name compares to changing a company name. They cover the ConvertKit rename that was quickly reversed and their own struggles with naming.
- •Rob says podcast names are easier to change because the RSS feed and platform listings can simply be updated
- •Sam says Dharmesh urged a rename but he thinks it's too late at two million monthly listeners
- •ConvertKit renamed itself Seva, drew backlash, and changed back within about a week
- •Sam suggests hiring a naming firm, and Rob mentions a lower-budget naming person at $5-10K
- •Ben argues a divisive name forces people to react
- 25:34 – 35:31
Rob's Background, Selling Drip and What Is Enough
Rob describes his path from developer to bootstrapped founder, blogger, podcaster and MicroConf creator. He explains why he sold Drip, how he thinks about the money needed to stop working, and what happened to Drip afterward.
- •Rob has written three books on bootstrapping and is against the idea that startups must raise funding
- •He sold Drip at about $3 million in revenue and 10 employees, with no regrets
- •He thinks the 4% rule is too aggressive and puts most people's number between $5 and $10 million
- •Growth consumed cash, and in 2015 he felt overexposed with little liquid net worth
- •Leadpages bought Drip and later sold off Leadpages to focus on Drip
- 35:31 – 41:13
Running MicroConf and the Power of In-Person Events
Rob explains how MicroConf went from a side project to a community-focused business, including his near-purchase of a tabletop gaming site. He and Sam compare notes on the slog of early events, sponsors and the competitive advantage of in-person community.
- •Rob considered buying a tabletop gaming site but found those businesses make little money
- •MicroConf expects low seven figures in revenue, run at 10-20% margin as a community service
- •The first year sold about 70 tickets at $1,200 instead of the planned 200
- •Sam notes sponsors book a year in advance and take two or three years to trust you
- •Rob says running in-person events well is a competitive advantage and builds a tight community
- 41:13 – 50:33
SaaS Companies from TinySeed: Builder Prime, Platform Risk, ScrapingBee
Asked about surprising software companies, Rob describes businesses from the TinySeed accelerator, starting with Builder Prime, a CRM for home improvement contractors. The discussion covers platform risk and ScrapingBee, a two-person company with fast growth, then how TinySeed's model works.
- •Builder Prime is a niche CRM and communication tool for contractors, similar to the LawSpot idea Brian Halligan described
- •Building on Shopify, Salesforce or Heroku carries platform risk and can lower a sale multiple
- •ScrapingBee crossed $1M ARR with only its two founders, and Rob encourages them to hire
- •TinySeed funds LLCs and shares in dividends or a sale, aiming for many $10-100M outcomes
- 50:33 – 1:00:12
SaaS Idea: Bundling the Podcast Stack and Pricing for Enterprise
Rob lays out where he finds ideas, such as spreadsheets and email threads, and pitches a bundled podcast production suite like HubSpot. Sam doubts there are enough paying podcasters, Rob answers with a three-tier customer view, and the talk turns to dual funnels and charging much more for enterprise buyers.
- •Rob looks for work done in Excel, Google Sheets, or long email and text threads
- •He sees a gap for a bundled podcast stack and compares it to HubSpot's early bundle
- •Rob describes hobbyist, SMB and enterprise podcast customers; Sam doubts there are enough payers
- •A dual funnel combines a wide low-end base with high-paying top-end customers
- •Requests like single sign-on or contract redlines should trigger much higher prices
- 1:00:12 – 1:07:55
An Examine.com for Crypto and Ways to Expand Examine
Rob asks where the Examine.com equivalent for crypto and Web3 is. Sam lays out ways Examine could make far more money, including affiliates, selling to doctors and covering injuries, and they discuss how such a trusted brand could be built.
- •Rob wants a trusted information source for crypto, which is full of religious fervor
- •Sam thinks Examine could use affiliates like Wirecutter, sell to doctors and cover injuries
- •Rob says Examine's value is its brand and trust, and Sam says the founder avoids becoming a review site
- •Rob would build credibility first through a podcast and attending crypto events
- •Sam points to Consumer Reports as proof such a brand can last decades
- 1:07:55 – 1:10:40
Boring Niche B2B SaaS and Deciding Which Ideas Can Get Big
Rob says boring B2B SaaS is his favorite, citing niche CRMs like Client Hub and Gymdesk. Sam asks how to tell whether an idea can reach eight figures, and Rob says it comes down to churn and pricing rather than market size.
- •Examples include Client Hub for accountants and Gymdesk for gyms
- •Founders choose between small lifestyle businesses and crowded, faster markets like e-signature or scheduling
- •TinySeed wants founders aiming for a seven-figure ARR business
- •Rob says high churn with low-priced customers makes a $1-2M business nearly impossible
- •With $100-500 average revenue per user and 2-3% churn, almost any market can support a $5M business
- 1:10:40 – 1:17:16
Starting a SaaS Company as a Non-Technical Founder
Sam asks how many SaaS founders are non-technical and what they do. Rob shares a survey figure and paths including acquiring, hiring developers, a no-code MVP or a productized service, and discusses finding developers and his stairstep approach.
- •Rob says a survey found roughly 20-25% of bootstrap-ish SaaS companies have no technical founder
- •Non-technical founders should bring subject-matter, sales or marketing expertise
- •Paths include acquiring a product, hiring an agency, or building an MVP with Zapier and Notion
- •The Castos founder built a productized podcast editing service, then bought a WordPress plugin
- •Rob suggests referrals, Trust Shoring and clouddevs, and says an MVP may cost $10-30K
- •Beginners should start small with plugins or add-ons rather than a full SaaS app
- 1:17:16 – 1:18:13
Wrap-Up and Where to Find Rob
Sam and Ben thank Rob for his view of the SaaS space. Rob points listeners to his Twitter handle and his podcast Startups for the Rest of Us.
- •Sam says Rob has a good view of what's going on in this space
- •Rob is on Twitter @RobWalling
- •Startups for the Rest of Us is a weekly 35-minute show with 590 episodes
- •Sam says he has listened to Rob for almost 10 years
