The Viral Marketing Strategy Behind Andrew Tate’s Rise To Fame (#463)

Shaan Puri 0:00 What else is, uh, traits of the Total Man? The Total Man does not get caught up in BS drama. Um, the Total Man does not act like a wussy. So, uh, when things, you know-

Sam Parr 0:10 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 0:10 ... if it, like, David Goggins is like, uh, "I broke my foot. Good. I'm finishing this 100-mile run." Like, and the w- the stories they collect and pride themselves on are not about lifestyle balance, are not about... Like, someone came over to my house the other day, and they, she said this to my wife. She goes, "It's okay to not be okay." And I go, "Total Man would never say it's okay to not be okay."

Sam Parr 0:31 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 0:31 This is, it's a lifestyle. [upbeat music] You're turning into, uh, Sasha Fierce with that?

Sam Parr 0:48 Trying to calm down. All right.

Shaan Puri 0:49 [laughs]

Sam Parr 0:50 We're live. I don't know who Sasha Fierce is.

Shaan Puri 0:52 It's-

Sam Parr 0:52 But I bet she's amazing

Shaan Puri 0:53 ... it's, uh, Beyoncé, when she goes on stage, she has a stage character she calls Sasha Fierce. She gets into that mode. So no matter how she was before going on stage, she's like, "That wasn't... I'm a new person now, and I'm doing my thing that I do with this."

Sam Parr 1:07 It's hard. It's hard.

Shaan Puri 1:08 That's you when, when you, uh-

Sam Parr 1:09 It's so-

Shaan Puri 1:09 ... drink your To- Topo Chico. You take a big swig of that, and you become Sam Fierce.

Sam Parr 1:14 Where do you wanna go from here? You drive.

Shaan Puri 1:16 All right. I got a couple things that I wanna talk to you about. So I think the, I think this episode is not gonna be for the s- for the faint of heart. I think it's not gonna be for the sensitive. I wanna talk to you about a concept that I've seen, two concepts that I've seen.

Sam Parr 1:30 The ti- the, the title of this episode is gonna be I'm Not Racist, But [laughs]

Shaan Puri 1:37 [laughs] It's Not Illegal, Right? [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:41 [laughs] Like, I'm not, I'm not trying to be sexist, but... That's what this, uh, this episode is gonna be called.

Shaan Puri 1:46 So... Okay, so let me tell you something. So I'm doing this, um, um, workshop that is clearly not a webinar today, right after this-

Sam Parr 1:54 Yeah

Shaan Puri 1:54 ... with, uh, our boy Nick Huber. And, um-

Sam Parr 1:57 How many people signed up?

Shaan Puri 1:58 Yeah.

Sam Parr 1:58 Can you say?

Shaan Puri 1:59 Take a guess. Take a guess how many people signed up for a webinar.

Sam Parr 2:02 Hundreds?

Shaan Puri 2:04 5,000 people have signed up for this.

Sam Parr 2:06 No shit. Really?

Shaan Puri 2:08 Your boy pulls weight, I think is one conclusion. But the second conclusion is, I saw, I got to see up close and personal how Nick marketed this thing. So Nick does something I call mob marketing. He basically angers the mob.

Sam Parr 2:24 Nick who?

Shaan Puri 2:25 Nick Huber. Um-

Sam Parr 2:26 Okay

Shaan Puri 2:26 ... and he's, on, on Twitter, he's @SweatyStartup, and he's got a big following, couple hundred thousand followers, and some people love him, and a lot of people hate him. He's one of our only friends, like we have this group chat of people who all got big on Twitter. He's the only one of us I think that gets, like, death threats [laughs] on a daily basis. Um-

Sam Parr 2:44 Dude, his home address gets posted all the time

Shaan Puri 2:46 ... people will post his home address, they'll post pictures of his wife, uh, they'll talk about how he's evil. They'll post on LinkedIn separately, not even tagging him, the next day being like, "Ugh, couldn't sleep at night just thinking about how much this bothered me, what th- what this guy said." And he'll say things that definitely ruffle feathers. He does it, I would say, it's some overlap. I can't deci- you know, it's hard to get into the mind of, like, you know, the Joker or Batman, but-

Sam Parr 3:11 So what's an example post?

Shaan Puri 3:12 It's like something along the s-

Sam Parr 3:13 Which is?

Shaan Puri 3:13 So he'll be like, um-

Sam Parr 3:15 I've never met someone who has purple hair and also has their life together

Shaan Puri 3:18 ... and he's like, "I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I'm 0 for 8." [laughs]

Sam Parr 3:22 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 3:22 And so it's like some people think it's funny. Some people, they'll secretly kinda nod along, but they'll stay quiet about it. And then a bunch of people are like, "Dude, what are you saying here?" And they're offended or they're, like, offended on behalf of somebody else. And then he'll do that again. He'll be like, um, you know, he'll, he'll say, "I run my company. Um, I have, you know, 20 people that are making $5 an hour in the Philippines, and it's the best decision I made. Um, hiring my, my international staff has, has been, you know, an absolute game changer. I'm never hiring entitled Americans who care about A, B, and C again." Um, you know, whatever. And then people are like, "You're, what, are you anti-American?" And then they're like, "Wait, $5 an hour in the Philippines? Do you feel good taking advantage of this labor?" And he's like, "Well, you know, I'm paying them double what they were making before this, otherwise they wouldn't take this job. Like, I'm not [laughs] forcing anyone into anything, but okay, if that, if you wanna protect these people who like this job, okay, sure." Um-

Sam Parr 4:21 But the point is, is he posts stuff that he knows is gonna-

Shaan Puri 4:24 He knows ruffles, ruffles feathers.

Sam Parr 4:26 Yeah.

Shaan Puri 4:26 He takes a very polarizing approach to it. And I would say in our world, in the business world, this is not common. Um, Elon kinda does it, but not really, and he's the only, he's the only one I can think of, uh, that's like... May- maybe there's a bunch of other examples, but on the b- on the business side, it's not that common. And the pol-

Sam Parr 4:43 Well, Trump

Shaan Puri 4:44 ... political side you see it.

Sam Parr 4:45 Even-

Shaan Puri 4:45 Right? Trump on the political side does this.

Sam Parr 4:47 But, but Trump, Trump did it before he, he was doing it as a business person.

Shaan Puri 4:50 Well, I think he was... I don't know. Maybe it was because his whole business career was kinda pre-social media, so it's hard to say, right? Like, I think he always was-

Sam Parr 4:56 Yeah

Shaan Puri 4:56 ... this guy, but, you know, when you do it in dinner parties, it's very different than doing it out loud on Twitter where anybody anywhere in the world can follow you and, and hate you. Um, Tucker Carlson is like this. Uh, all the, all of the, like, kinda media pundits that get really big, like Hannity and whatever, they take a very polarizing view on things. Ben Shapiro, right?

Shaan Puri 5:15 And then you have Andrew Tate, and this kinda leads me into a, um... So first I kinda noticed this mob marketing tactic. I was like, this is very effective. Um, I don't know if I would wanna do it. It sounds like it, you know, is a lot of, like, kinda firefighting. Um, and I've been able to make it work without doing it, so I don't, I don't really intend to go do this, but it is one tactic that does work. The, the other thing that I've noticed with this is it ties into this idea I call Total Man, and I think Total Man is a new lifestyle that is popping up, and I'd like to tell you about it. So here's the idea with Total Man.

Sam Parr 5:50 Is this a trademarked, uh, phrase?

Shaan Puri 5:52 I tried to buy the domain. It's taken. Uh, I'd like to own this domain. Um, and I think that this is going to be... This either already is or going to be- The next big kinda lifestyle brand trend is whoever owns this Total Man thing. I think Andrew Tate kinda did it, so I, I'm, I'm a little bit late to the, to the game here. But basically, if you look at the following individuals, David Goggins, Joe Rogan, um, Jocko Willink, Andrew Tate, Donald Trump, even Nick Huber to an extent, they all subscribe to this, like, Total Man Lifestyle. What is the Total Man Lifestyle? So here-

Sam Parr 6:27 Did I get, did I get left off that bullet point list?

Shaan Puri 6:30 You, you, or you're, like, half of them. Um-

Sam Parr 6:33 Hmm

Shaan Puri 6:33 ... like, I think you-

Sam Parr 6:34 Half man

Shaan Puri 6:34 ... I think you definitely... You're not Total Man. You're Half Man, but-

Sam Parr 6:37 Yeah, Half Man

Shaan Puri 6:38 ... you might be-

Sam Parr 6:38 2% milk

Shaan Puri 6:39 ... yeah, you might be trying to get to that, to that level. Okay, so here's... So my trainer even said this. He's like, he's like, "I'm just trying to l- live the quali- like, I wanna be a quality man, and I wanna have this lifestyle." And I thought, "Quality man, that's a good phrase." And then I said, "Let me just sharpen that a little bit." "Total man." I said, "What do you mean by that?" He goes, he's like, "I just wanna have my finances, like, set. I wanna have, I wanna be wealthy. I wanna ha- I wanna be fit. Like, I don't wanna be out of shape. I don't think it's cool to be out of shape. I'm gonna push myself to be in phenomenal shape." Um, and, you know, I found some other characteristics. Uh, he didn't say these, but basically somebody who's unapologetic. So you see this with Nick. When the mob comes at him, he never apologizes or backs down. He pushes back again. Trump does the same thing. Andrew Tate does the same thing. They double down instead of backpedaling. So they're unapologetic. Why? Because they live by a code. I think you do that, too. They live by a code. It's an internal code, and the internal code can be a little bit flawed. Like, Andrew Tate says some wild stuff, but the fact that they have a code is actually quite admirable, and I think people are attracted to somebody with a code because they themselves don't have a code. And so you, it, it's sort of like life is easier when you're just, uh, around people who, who live by their code. Um, what else is, uh, traits of the Total Man? The Total Man does not get caught up in BS drama. Um, the Total Man does not act like a wussy. So, uh, when things, you know-

Sam Parr 8:03 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 8:03 ... if it, like, David Goggins is like, uh, "I broke my foot. Good. I'm finishing this 100-mile run." Like, and the, the stories they collect and pride themselves on are not about lifestyle balance, are not about... Like, someone came over to my house the other day, and they, she said this to my wife. She goes, "It's okay to not be okay." And I go, "Total Man would never say it's okay to not be okay."

Sam Parr 8:24 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 8:25 It's two lifestyles, right? I think there's one lifestyle, and I, and so let me keep going. He knows what he wants out of life, and then he has it. So it doesn't matter if what you want is a Bugatti and, uh, you know, a, three model girlfriends. What matters is that you wanted it, and you sort of, whatever, quote-unquote, "Manifested it." I think that's another trait of the, of these people that do this Total Man Lifestyle. And lastly, they have strong hobbies. Joe Rogan goes bow hunting. Uh, you know, Goggins does pull-ups for fun. Uh, these people have strong hobbies, and lastly, they are charismatic, and they care about being charismatic. So to me, I think that you're gonna see a bunch of mega influencers and a bunch of brands being built, like, in the same way that there's, like, right-wing conservative, like, that became a lifestyle and an identity, and then a bunch of brands got built for that population. I think you're gonna see a bunch of people, you're already seeing it with Andrew Tate and others, David Goggins and others, that are trying to do this Total Man Lifestyle and then build a bunch of products for other guys who wanna be in this, want, wanna be a part of this religion. And I think about this-

Sam Parr 9:33 And this isn't anything, this isn't anything new. I'm reading, like, the biography of Arnold Schwarzenegger right now, and, but, you know, he, like, uh, was ac-

Shaan Puri 9:41 Something that anybody in the Church of the Total Man would do is go read a Arnold Schwarzenegger biography for, for fun.

Sam Parr 9:45 Yeah. Well, and he's, he's an eclectic person. But he was, uh, you know, he was selling workout plans and things like that because people are like, "Oh, you're on the..." He, he would, he would do these photo shoots in fitness magazines of him holding a surfboard on the beach in LA, and he, in the biography, he's like, "I've never surfed in my life."

Shaan Puri 10:04 Okay.

Sam Parr 10:04 Like, "I, I could barely swim. Look at me. Like, have you seen a bulldog swim? Like, it doesn't happen a lot."

Shaan Puri 10:08 [laughs]

Sam Parr 10:08 And, uh, like, he's like, "I, you know, I don't really s- like, I'm not like that." But people wanted to look like him. They wanted to be around these hot girls. They wanted to l- live in LA, and he would sell these plans. So of course, this isn't, isn't anything new. We're just seeing a different generation of it.

Shaan Puri 10:21 So here's what I think is new. Uh, um, I have this belief that, like, almost everything that becomes a big trend is in response to the world being a certain status quo and the other way. It's a pendulum that swings. And so you had an era where it was like the world was very conventional and traditional and blah, blah, blah, and then you start to see a bunch of unconventional, untraditional things. And this is people having different genders and pronouns and purple hair and all, all this stuff, and you see a big, a big movement in that direction. And then you see, um, like, I would say therapy and empathy and all these words have never been more popular and, a- amongst men and women. Um, and I think in response to that, I think there's an undercurrent of people who feel like it's all too soft. The world's getting too soft. We need hard men. We, we need, we need the Total Man, and, and so here's how I know it works. Everything I described is the opposite of toxic masculinity. It is basically, uh, being a man became something that got labeled as toxic masculinity, and now I think there's a bunch of people trying to take that back and be like, "Hell no, we embrace masculinity." And so that's what I see happening, is people basically flipping that on its head and be like, "I'm not, I'm not gonna apologize for being manly. In fact, I'm gonna double down on it." And then there's this wave of people who have been w- craving something like that, and I'll give you the example. I remember when Snapchat came out, and I underestimated Snapchat at first. I thought, "Oh, s- dis- disappearing photos for kids, and is this just for, you know, bleep pics?" Like, you know, "What, what is this? Is this, is this gonna be a real deal?" What I underestimated was that Snapchat was the response. The pendulum had swung. At, when Snapchat came out- Facebook was basically at the peak of its powers. Um, or it had like sort of like was, was, uh, Facebook and Instagram were like at the top. And what Facebook and Instagram were, were every photo is public, every photo is permanent, every photo looks good and just trying to make you look, look cool. And what was Snapchat? It was the exact opposite. It was every photo is private, every photo is impermanent, and it lets th- because of that, you get to be silly, you get to let your hair down, you get to just send goofy pictures instead of pictures that make you look cool. And so that it, there, to me, the need for a product like Snapchat only be- only came out because the world had got so Instagramified, so Facebookified, where everything was public, permanent, and, uh, and, and pretty. And so I think that you see this. Any time you notice that the world goes in one direction, you can sort of anticipate that two or three years later, the counterculture response is gonna be there. The opposite is gonna become popular. And so, uh, this is like a way for me to get, like when I think about how to be ahead of the curve on trends, I start to think about what, what feels dominant today, and in three years what would be the opposite, because I think there's gonna be an emergence of that counterculture. What do you think of this? Am I just, am I just doing fake astrology there, trying to piece things together?

Sam Parr 13:19 Uh, no. Your theory I think is, is exactly right. You know, there's been things that I've been interested in, like, um, have you heard of the, the Light Phone? It's L-I-T-E phone.

Shaan Puri 13:27 Yep. I-

Sam Parr 13:28 And so this-

Shaan Puri 13:28 I looked into buying one 'cause I, I-

Sam Parr 13:30 Me too

Shaan Puri 13:30 ... crave that. Why? 'Cause we're so... Well, I guess explain what it is, but it's like we're so heavy on our normal phones.

Sam Parr 13:35 So the Light Phone is, it's like a $300 phone, but it has the screen of a Kindle, so no colors. And I think you can only download-

Shaan Puri 13:42 There's like no apps

Sam Parr 13:42 ... I think you can only do Spot- I think it's just Spotify, I think it's just Google Maps, and then phone calling. And you might be able to text, but you can only text like a Nokia.

Shaan Puri 13:52 [laughs] Slow text.

Sam Parr 13:52 So you have to type in, like, yeah, in order to do C you gotta hit 1 three times.

Shaan Puri 13:56 Right.

Sam Parr 13:57 And it's came out, like, maybe 10 years ago at this point, eight years ago, and it didn't really hit right away, but it's getting more and more and more popular. Another one that I've been preaching about forever and that hasn't entirely taken off yet, is DuckDuckGo. So DuckDuckGo is a search engine. It's just like Google, but it's, uh, you, you can't be tracked. And so if you Google DuckDuckGo internet searches, they actually have a graph and you can see, like, the number of searches per day, and it's growing exponentially.

Shaan Puri 14:24 Right.

Sam Parr 14:25 Um, yeah, so your theory I think is totally right.

Shaan Puri 14:27 And-

Sam Parr 14:27 I think, I think that what you-

Shaan Puri 14:28 ... anybody who's into fashion or whatever is gonna know this. They're gonna be like, "Yeah, duh." Like, when everything goes to skinny jeans, guess what's, guess what's coming back next.

Sam Parr 14:36 Which is true.

Shaan Puri 14:36 Bell-bottoms and whatever.

Sam Parr 14:38 It's-

Shaan Puri 14:38 The lo- lo- you know, the baggy stuff, the, the high-waisted loose stuff or whatever. Um, uh-

Sam Parr 14:42 But you have an issue. Here's a, here's a flaw with this premise, this particular one. It's not a flaw. You're stuck in this California bubble, man. You gotta, you gotta come to where I'm from in Missouri. I think, like, you know, this is, this has been gaining momentum now for a little while. I think the difference is, is that, um, California types, you know, the people who like if, if, if I'm from, like, a place that's generally right of center, now the left of center people I think are also craving a bit more than before.

Shaan Puri 15:10 Right.

Sam Parr 15:10 Before it was, like, kinda cringey guys. Um, and then they start evolving a little bit to being a little bit more holistic. And so for example, do you know who Andy Frisella is?

Shaan Puri 15:22 Yes.

Sam Parr 15:24 So he's in our world in that technically we compete against him in the podcast charts, but I had no idea who he was, but he was the t- he was the n- he's the number one business podcast typically in the charts each week. And he talks a t- a ton about, like, politics and stuff, and I, I believe he's right of center, but it's m- that's mostly a stereotype of just the way he looks and some of the phrasing that he uses. His podcast used to be called the MFN CEO.

Shaan Puri 15:47 Right.

Sam Parr 15:48 And then I started listening to him, and I'm like, "Oh, you're way more eclectic than I originally judged you for, and you're actually really interesting." And I think that that's what's happening, is that there's, uh, people who don't entirely fit into the previous bubble of, of, of whatever I would stereotype these guys as being.

Shaan Puri 16:04 Right.

Sam Parr 16:05 Which is, like, lower IQ, big-ass meatheads, and it's like, "Oh, no, you're actually way more thoughtful than I thought."

Shaan Puri 16:10 T- totally. Uh, yeah, I think that's, that's totally true. Um, so yeah, I think this, uh, I'm keeping an eye on this, and I think that they've been very successful. Like, David Goggins is kinda like stunningly popular now. And, um, same thing with Andrew Tate.

Sam Parr 16:24 Well, so is Jocko.

Shaan Puri 16:25 You saw Andrew, did you see Andrew Tate came out of prison and did an interview? Did you see this interview on BBC?

Sam Parr 16:30 Just, it ended mid-interview, didn't it?

Shaan Puri 16:32 Well, there's a f- the full thing got posted on, like, Rumble or something like that. Like-

Sam Parr 16:35 What hap- yeah, no, I didn't watch it. Uh-

Shaan Puri 16:37 I mean, it's kind of a headache

Sam Parr 16:38 ... but dude, the thing about him is, like, he started out, like, if you listen to his messages, like, maybe 70% is, like, good. Like, you know, a man is someone who exercises. They get what they want. But then, like, there's, like, 30% where I'm like, "Ah, bro, like I don't wanna be associated with that. Like, that, you crossed the line there." But, uh, yeah, some of the stuff he says is awesome.

Shaan Puri 16:59 So for example, yeah, the, the, the BBC l- so it's a woman, she comes into his home and she's interviewing him. And, uh, she goes, "You are, you know, um, h- how can you say these things that are, you know, toxic and dangerous and whatever? You've been named by the UK, um, Commission, uh, Committee of whatever as the most dangerous man in the United Kingdom." You... He's like, "Dangerous man in the United Kingdom?" He's like, uh, he's like, he's like, "What am I preaching that, that is so dangerous?" He's like, he's like, "I don't dr- I'm Muslim. I don't drink. I don't do drugs. I tell people, 'Don't drink. Don't do drugs.' I say work out. I say work hard, get rich, um, and you know, like, like, b- build yourself into a quality individual who lives by a code." And he's like, you know, "That's what I, that's what I preach. What is dangerous about that?" And she's like, "Well, you said on an interview that, um, if your wife does OnlyFans you're entitled to half her earnings or whatever. Um, or, like, that, you know, if your wife is your wife, that she is your, your property as a man or whatever."

Sam Parr 17:57 Ugh.

Shaan Puri 17:57 And he's like, and he's like, "Did you listen to the actual interview?" And she's like, "You said that. That is, that's what you said." He goes, "Yes, but what's the context of the interview?" The context of the interview is, uh, or the context of the podcast is, um, me and several women are on a podcast. We're joking around because one woman says, um, "If my man owns a car and I'm dating him, that's my car." I own that property too. And then he countered as a jo- he's like, he's like, "I basically, as a joke, countered, if I'm dating a girl and she has an OnlyFans, then I g- I get half of that too." And, uh, he's, he's like, "Well, the same logic, right?" And he, he's like, "So that's what I said." And she's like, "So are you saying it's a joke?" He's like, "Yeah, I'm saying you're taking it completely out of context." And he's like, you know, he, he's kind of like trying to defend himself, and they're arguing back and forth. And then he's like, he asked her a question, and she's like, "No, I'm asking the questions here." He goes, "No, no, no, you're in my house. I invited you here. I'm doing you the favor. You know how you're-

Sam Parr 18:46 That's what I saw

Shaan Puri 18:46 ... you've been begging me for interviews. And, uh, I, I let you in here. We are equals. Uh, there, you do not hold any authority over me. We are equals. If I ask you a question, you, you, you can choose to answer. If you ask me a question, I don't have to answer either. You know, that's how this is gonna ... It's a conversation." And she, like, was, like, rejecting that premise. And then you hear their handlers in the background that are all, like, getting really nervous about how the whole thing's going 'cause it's, like, going off the rails. [laughs] Um-

Sam Parr 19:08 The BBC handler or the Tate handler?

Shaan Puri 19:10 Both. Both.

Sam Parr 19:10 'Cause they, he, he has them?

Shaan Puri 19:13 Yeah, he has people who are like, you know, uh, I wouldn't say, maybe handler is not the right word, but, like, you know, he has his, like, kind of whatever, his PR-type people that were like, "He's answered the question already. Like, why? Like, you repeated the same question six times. Like, just move on to the next thing. Like, we're, you're stuck here. Like, he's answered it. He's not gonna answer it any differently. He's answered it five times now. Just move on to the next question." And so they were like, you could hear these voices in the background in the unedited version. Like, even they take a break, they're like, "Hold on. We gotta g- the camera, camera died. We gotta reach- reset the batteries. Hold on." And then you could see what happens in the break. She, like, immediately is just like, "No, doesn't make eye contact." She's, like, looking at her notes only. And then s-

Sam Parr 19:48 Does he go like, "Good interview"? [laughs]

Shaan Puri 19:50 And he, and the, his handler was like, "We don't have to do this. Like, it's fine. It's fine. No, this is good, actually. I want people to see how this goes." He's like, "I want people to see her. Uh, like, how, you know, how, how the mainstream media, how the, uh, they don't, they don't do their research. They, they lie," blah, blah, blah, and he's got his, like, spiel. But during the break, there's, like, maximum tension. It's like v- uh, that's actually probably the most interesting part of the whole interview.

Sam Parr 20:08 So I, uh, I, I'm not con- I'm, me personally, I'm not convinced I'm willing to sign up for that. I don't wanna, I, I'm not, I don't wanna deal with that headache.

Shaan Puri 20:18 Agreed.

Sam Parr 20:19 I'm willing to make sacrifices to some parts, not of my code, it's just that my code is, like, not that hardcore, maybe is the right way to put it. But I've met a lot of people who run companies that you know that are worth hundreds of millions, and some that are actually worth billions. And I'll see them s- like, do certain things that are common now about, like, um, uh, like, they use phrases like, "Bring your whole self to work," which is, like, kind of like a, a funny, controversial statement to some people because some people are like, "No, just bring your work self to work." Like, we don't, we, we don't need you doing that other stuff.

Shaan Puri 20:50 I think it's only funny to us. [laughs]

Sam Parr 20:52 Yeah. Or no,

Sam Parr 20:54 there's like a crew. And then there's, like, they'll do, like, certain things that are typically, like, uh, that you see a lot of, that are get categorized as woke. And I'm like, "Dude, I know you don't believe that." And h- I, I see them say, they'll say things privately like, "Yeah, but I wanna win, and this is the game I have to play in order to, like, hire all these people." And I don't know how I feel about that.

Shaan Puri 21:14 Dude-

Sam Parr 21:14 When I hear about that, I'm like-

Shaan Puri 21:14 I had a funny, uh, experience with this. So when we got acquired by Twitch, I'm now in a 2,000-person organization. In Twitch, uh, literally, I think, uh, you know, 5% of the staff has, like, you know, purple hair. Like, uh, and, and I don't mean that as a knock. I just mean, like, we're in San Francisco. We are the stereotype of when people talk about, like, kind of like left-leaning social media companies. Like, people think this about Twitter or Facebook. I would say Twitch is probably more like that than, um, i- in terms of the, the staff. So I'm in a meeting, and I joined, like, three minutes late, as I do, as you know that I, the, the [laughs] tend to be three minutes late-

Sam Parr 21:48 Yeah

Shaan Puri 21:48 ... every time. And, um, there's a presentation on the screen. I don't really understand what's going on. I'm like, "What is this presentation about?" And I'm, I Slack somebody, and they're like, "Oh, it's, like, a, a, you know, just kind of like updating our copywriting," whatever. I'm like, "Oh, copywriting. I love copywriting. What are, what are we talking about?" And it was talking about, like, how we use, uh, genders from now on. It's like we only say they, and then-

Sam Parr 22:09 Woof

Shaan Puri 22:09 ... and then they were talking about, uh, women. They're like, "We don't say women. We say," um, and they spell this word W-O-M-X-N.

Sam Parr 22:17 Ugh.

Shaan Puri 22:17 And I was like, I was like, "How do you even say that? What is, wom- womxn? I don't know. What, what is that? Or is it just women? Like, what do you say for that?" And like, "This is now how we say this." And I was like, I was like, "What does that mean?" Like, s- sorry, dumb question, but like, uh, like, what is it, who is of- or who, who is offended, and what does this mean? It's like, oh, this is inclusive of, like, people who were mayb- maybe not biologically born women but now are women, and so this is, like, the inclusive term. And I was like, so I was like, "How do," I was like, "How do you say this?" And [laughs] and, like, all of a sudden, I could see, I could feel, like, a bunch of heat on me, like, "Why are you asking all of these questions?" And, like, there's kind of an undercurrent in the way I'm asking the questions, which is sort of like, "Is this ... Are you sure?" Like, that's kind of all I was. I was like, I was like, "Wow, this is, overnight we're just changing? Like, this is, we don't say that and now we say this? Like, this is a pretty big change, no?" And, um, and so I'm hearing this, and I'm like, "Okay, I guess, you know, that's cool." And, um, and then they [laughs] the funny thing is the company then tweeted out for International Women's Day. They tweeted out I- International Womxn's Day or whatever, right? Like, they tweeted it out like that.

Sam Parr 23:14 Uh-huh.

Shaan Puri 23:15 And then they got tons of blowback from the transgen- like the LGBTQ community being like, "Don't d- don't use that phrase. Just call us women. Why are you trying to make us seem different?" [laughs] And I was like, "Oh my God, that backfired." Like, their attempt to, to, like, you know, placate actually backfired. And I was like, "Wow, this is really, like, this is, there's a bunch of landmines." Like, you don't, you don't even know-

Sam Parr 23:34 But then what did the executive ... Were you like, "Hey, executive team, what are you thinking?"

Shaan Puri 23:39 Y- you can't ask that, but I was like, I said it in a different way. I said, uh, we were talking about, like, you know, questions. I was like, um, Amazon has this thing where when you are doing your yearly planning, one of their questions is what are the dogs that are not barking yet? And it's from this old Sherlock Holmes story of, like, a crime occurs in a house. There's a break-in, and there's no clues, and Sherlock can't figure it out. And he figures it out because he's like, um, "Well, the dog was here, right? So surely the neighbor heard the dog." And they're like, "No, the dog didn't bark." And he's like, "Ah, that's it. That's the clue, Watson." And he's like, "What?" He's like, "If the dog didn't bark, it's 'cause he knows who the intruder was. That means this was an inside job." And so he figures out who it was because there was the dog not barking. So they have this thing in Amazon, which is when you're doing your annual planning, they say, "What are your dogs not barking?" Basically like- What are you not hearing that is actually telling you something? Um, or it's a different way of saying, like, what is ex- something, what is something that's not being said out loud, but could signal something that's worth talking about?

Sam Parr 24:33 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shaan Puri 24:34 And, um, so I said, I go, "I think we should decide how woke we're gonna be, and like, where, uh, like, is there a line, and what does that mean, and who do we wanna ... Like, sh- we should say it out loud, what we wanna be." Um, and [laughs] then literally, like, my Slack just blew up of, like, DMs being like, like, "Abort. F- [laughs] don't, don't say this. Don't s- " Like, "Don't bring this up." Like, um, "What are you saying, dude? Like, this is, like, you know, a, a suicide mission." And one girl goes, she goes, she goes, um, "I didn't appreciate that. We don't use the word woke anymore." And I go, "Who?" I go, "We? Who? Like, there's a company policy you can't use the word woke?" I was like, I didn't even mean it as an insult. Like, I thought it's just, like, a ... Yeah, 'cause at the time it w- it really wasn't. This was many years, this was, like, four years ago or five years ago now. Woke was, woke became a little bit more derogatory-

Sam Parr 25:19 Right

Shaan Puri 25:19 ... over time. Uh, at first it was stay woke. It was, like, a, the kids were saying it as, like, "Yo, you, if you're not, you're not, like, awake to what's really going on-

Sam Parr 25:27 Dude, I think Twitter had T-shirts that said stay woke.

Shaan Puri 25:30 Yeah, it was, like, a positive thing, and then it turned into a, a criticism later.

Sam Parr 25:33 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shaan Puri 25:33 So it was somewhere in the middle of that, and I was like, "We should decide woke or..." And she's like, "We don't use the word woke anymore, so I, you know, I'd appreciate it if you don't do that." I go, "W- who's we? Is there a committee that decides what words we can say? Like, that sounds pretty non-woke to me." And, uh, and she links me, like, a Vox article. I'm like, "Oh-

Sam Parr 25:48 Ugh

Shaan Puri 25:48 ... you read this Vox article, and you decided that I can't say this?" And I was like, oh, this is just too much for me. And I was like, there's only one piece of advice that I needed, and it was a piece of advice I got on this podcast from a guy very early on, Daniel Gross. He's super smart guy. He got acquired by Apple, and I go, "What was that like in that acquisition? You were there for three years. What, what was the best advice you got about navigating that?" And he goes, "Don't give yourself brain damage." And I go, "What?" And he goes, "Yeah, when you get acquired there's a really tempting thing as an entrepreneur to, like, I'm gonna, I see things that are wrong in this organization, or that I'm gonna be a challenger voice and not just, like, another, another person who just follows, you know, the, the company line. And I'm gonna challenge, you know, maybe our innovation cycle or our policies or anything. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be the one who brings change." He goes, "It's just brain damage. Don't, don't try it." J- [laughs] and I was like, oh, I'm doing it. I'm giving myself brain damage.

Sam Parr 26:38 H- how'd the woke story end?

Shaan Puri 26:40 It ended with that one person telling me that we can't say, say these words anymore, which was backed up by nothing, and I was like, "Oh, cool. So you read this article, and so you decided that I am not allowed to ask this question. Okay, gotcha. Just ma- just clarifying. Great. Uh, thank you," you know, whatever, head of important thing inside the company. Like, yeah, I'm glad that you're, uh, I'm glad this is how this, this, this works. And you know what?

Sam Parr 27:01 What do you think, without calling out ... Well, Emmett is the CEO, and he seems, I don't know him, but he seems like an awesome guy. What, m- I don't know if you can answer this without calling him out, but what do you think he thinks, or someone like him? [laughs] Can I say someone like him? [laughs]

Shaan Puri 27:16 Someone in his position. Someone in his position with his name and face, what would they say?

Sam Parr 27:20 Yeah. [laughs]

Shaan Puri 27:21 Uh, I don't know. I can't speak for him, but I, I guess my impression of it was basically, I think he's mostly shielded from this stuff. So, like, I, I don't think the most of this gets to his plate, and that by the time it does-

Sam Parr 27:31 He's a, he's a total man. He doesn't care about drama

Shaan Puri 27:34 ... like, I mean, [laughs] I think he's, he's like a Renaissance man. He's a little different. Um, I think two things. I think, one, I think he's mostly just, like, um, he, I think he's gotten a lot of CEO coaching to where he doesn't let his first reaction be his response. So, like, something comes up, and now instead of reacting, he responds, and he usually responds with a question. And he'll just ask them tons of questions. And he's like, "I'm, in the spirit of literally understanding what you're saying and trying to figure this out, tell me what does that word mean?" Like, and they'll be like, "It just, I mean, it means, uh, inclusive. It means v- " He's like, "Well, like, no. Like, could you please, like, use an example, or can you, uh, like, from, can you explain that from, like, you know, base principles? Like, what are you talking about? Where, what are the boundary lines? Like, let's make sure we're all talking about the same thing." And, uh, he does, like, kinda like a Socratic method where he would, he would end up just, like, fatiguing out anybody who wanted to bring something up, and he would get his understanding of it and then decide is this important or not. But, um, I think most people are sort of intimidated by him, and then in the process of trying to debate him on something would sort of, like, nobody could really, uh- uh, very few people in the company could really, like, hold up to any debate or any scrutiny from him in, in a conversation. I saw it just many, many times. And he was trying to dial that down 'cause he knows that that's sort, like, you know, already he's in a position of authority, plus he's, like, a, you know, world-class, you know, debater who's got this, like, wide breadth of knowledge to, like, pull from. So he already knows. He's like, you know, h- if he does that, he's just gonna shut people down, so he's trying not, tries not to do that. But I saw, you know, most people didn't wanna bring it up to him.

Sam Parr 29:10 Dude, I just avoid all of this, this shit. Like, I can't stand this stuff. T- and it's just, I just don't care is really what it-

Shaan Puri 29:18 Well, I guarantee-

Sam Parr 29:18 I just don't care

Shaan Puri 29:18 ... that's the worst part of the job for Zuckerberg or, or Emmett or anybody who runs these networks. It's, like, the 1% of trust and safety or, like, angry people that's constantly angry about something, that's gotta be the worst part of the job. That's not why they created these networks is to, like, be public policy maker in their own, like, kingdom.

Sam Parr 29:36 But it is amazing how they, um, get around it, uh, because I could, I could tell Zuck doesn't care about that stuff, but he still plays the game.

Shaan Puri 29:45 Yeah.

Sam Parr 29:46 And Zuck's the man. He's never had a controversy. He's never done anything, not, a lot of these guys haven't. Uh, like, they've done pretty good with navigating some of these topics.

Shaan Puri 29:54 Right.

Sam Parr 29:54 And I'm amazed that they don't react by saying, "Oh, you guys wanna form this union, or you wanna, like, protest over this? You're all fired."

Shaan Puri 30:01 [laughs]

Sam Parr 30:01 Like, this is a machine. You know, we don't need this. We don't need this. It, this is a machine.

Shaan Puri 30:05 Well, that happened to the Mailchimp guy, right?

Sam Parr 30:06 But they put up with-

Shaan Puri 30:07 Like, didn't he, he say something in an email which was like, you know, "Let's not do it this way," and then he got fired from his own company?

Sam Parr 30:13 What happened? I don't, I don't know. What happened?

Shaan Puri 30:16 He, I, he, he was, he wrote an email to the staff about a trend he noticed in the workforce, which was new hires had to introduce themselves using their preferred pronouns. He says This is completely unnecessary for a woman who is clearly a woman to tell us that her pronouns are she and her, and a man who's clearly a man to tell us that his pronouns are he and him. Um, he understands that the practice is rooted in kindness, but he says, "In the long run, this approach does more harm than good," 'cause you're forcing people to behave a certain way, and that's the opposite of inclusion. Um, and then [laughs] and so then, uh, he says, "First, there's a tiny number of pe- of people at," uh, well, he says, "peeps," so, you know, already maybe that's a fireable offense. "There's a tiny, tiny number of peeps at Mailchimp who are considering themselves transgender, forcing, either with orders or guilt, the other 1,390 other peeps to adopt a new communication paradigm that humanity has never had to use in our 300,000 year existence, and our 150,000 years of spoken language in order to make things slightly more comfortable for an extremely small g- group of peeps is completely illogical." Um, so then he got fired. [laughs]

Sam Parr 31:24 It was probably for the peeps thing, to be honest.

Shaan Puri 31:26 [laughs]

Sam Parr 31:28 [laughs] Like, Intuit, whoever bought the company was like, "Look, Ben, we need to talk."

Shaan Puri 31:34 Yeah.

Sam Parr 31:34 He's like, "But I didn't mean to hurt the, the trans people." He goes, "What? No. Look, we need to talk about this peeps thing."

Shaan Puri 31:40 Yeah. He stepped down as CEO shortly after, and, uh, vol- voluntarily. Uh, and then also [laughs] and then somebody came out and was like, "By the way, there's no policy that says they have to do that." [laughs] He's like, "Shit." [laughs]

Speaker 31:52 [upbeat music] This data is wrong every freaking time. Have you heard of HubSpot? HubSpot is a CRM platform where everything is fully integrated. Whoa, I can see the client's whole history, calls, support tickets, emails, and here's a task from three days ago I totally missed. HubSpot. Grow better.

Sam Parr 32:13 We, um, one time at The Hustle, we wrote an article on Sasha Grey. Sasha Grey used to be, like, this famous porn star, and we wrote about how she was trying to change her image around to not be that. And every single night at, like, midnight our time, I would get all this traffic from Japan, 'cause I guess that was morning time in Japan, and it was all people searching for Sasha Grey, and they were finding our article.

Shaan Puri 32:37 SEO is crushing it. [laughs]

Sam Parr 32:38 Yeah, and I found out that she had hired this company called, like, reputation.com to, like, boost that article so it showed up first. So we were getting all these people searching Sasha Grey xxx, and they didn't get what they wanted to, but whatever.

Shaan Puri 32:51 [laughs] You're like, "Photos at the bottom of this blog post. It's, photos inside our newsletter if you subscribe." [laughs]

Sam Parr 32:58 Dude, I didn't realize, I guess I realized it, but someone posted this infographic on Twitter of the biggest websites, and it was like Google was just, like, the largest, it was like bigger than everything combined.

Shaan Puri 33:10 Right.

Sam Parr 33:10 But then, like, I think 4 of the top 10 were, were porn sites. And, uh, it- it's, it's wild. I mean-

Shaan Puri 33:16 So-

Sam Parr 33:17 ... imagine working at one of those companies. Can you imagine that? What would that be like just sitting in the office? Uh, it's weird.

Shaan Puri 33:22 I've imagined it many times. No. Um, [laughs] so I've,

Shaan Puri 33:25 I've been, I can't talk about these, but I've been, I've had very interesting conversations with a s- a few people that own OnlyFans-based businesses recently, and they're absolutely crushing it to the point where I can't talk about it because I would be kind of like, it's like, uh-

Sam Parr 33:41 Do, wait, do you mean, do you mean the, the stars or, like, the ancillary things?

Shaan Puri 33:45 All, uh, most, I'm talking about the ancillary things right now, but they're all crushing it. The platform is crushing it, the stars are crushing it, and the, the cottage businesses that get built around this to help this, to, to be a part of that ecosystem. But they're doing so well that I sort of, if I talked about them, I would be coming between them and, like, millions of dollars 'cause people, a lot of people would want to compete with the, the, the strategies that they're doing. But I will say one thing that I've learned that was pretty interesting. So I always assumed that OnlyFans was popular because, um, y- you're sending, like, I don't know, nude pics or videos to guys, and that's, like, the thing. That's what they're paying for. And I was always a little curious. I was like, "But porn's, like, free on the internet. Why would you pay for this?" And like, uh, there must be something. I don't know. And I just kind of wrote it off as that. Do you know why they make so much money? Do you know what the actual money maker is inside of a, a, of an OnlyFans account when these girls say that they're making, like, a million dollars a month? Do you know what actually drives that?

Sam Parr 34:41 I've never, I've never subscribed to one. I guess you probably have subscribed to a few now that you're, like, researching it, but I've never subscribed to one.

Shaan Puri 34:47 You know, I'm a married man, and I did not do that. But, uh, you didn't need to 'cause I could, I talked to the people who, like, run, they, like, run the accounts or whatever. Like, what a lot of people don't realize is that a lot of these accounts are just, they're bought. So, like, a, a girl has a public persona. She does an OnlyFans. She kind of gets exhausted running the thing 'cause it's, like, a lot and it's, like, emotionally exhausting dealing with all these guys and, uh, whatever. So she's, uh, so somebody come, approaches her and says, "We'll buy your account for, um, you know, I'll give you $200,000 right now for your OnlyFans account, and then I'll give you, you know, X percent of the profits, and I'll run it. You just have to put pictures in a Dropbox folder. And, uh, you give me good content, and I will give you money." And that's how it goes. And then, uh, and so what, what a- what actually people... So I was like, "Why do people pay for these pictures and videos?" Like, again, porn's free. That's, like, one of the, the rules of the internet is porn is free. Uh, so what, what do people really want? And it turns out that they want, like, the girlfriend experience. [laughs] And so the mo-

Sam Parr 35:49 Yeah

Shaan Puri 35:49 ... money is made not through the content but through the chatting, and that the chatting has all kinds of weird things, like-

Sam Parr 35:55 Is it one group chat or individuals?

Shaan Puri 35:57 No, individuals. And so they hire farms of chatters. So basically what OnlyFans is built off of, like, a lot of the, the, the money is made through is giant, like, customer support, you know, uh, call centers, uh, essentially in the Philippines talking to, you know, it's basically, like, dudes in the Philippines talking to dudes in the US pretending to be the girl. [laughs] And so they, it's just like they have this army of chatters that will chat with these guys and tease them and flirt with them and then upsell them, and boom, cha-ching, got the sale. They're, and they're like salespeople. They, they got a com- they get commissions and all this stuff. It's insane And what-

Sam Parr 36:34 But how-

Shaan Puri 36:35 Within that, okay, so one of the highest ticket items, what's the, you know, if this was the, the, the county fair, what's that top stuff- stuffed animal at the top? And it's basically like the number one is pretend to be my girlfriend for like, you know, a month. And it's like, "Text me as if you're my girlfriend." Um, and it's like that's the, that's like the top prize. But there's other weird stuff underneath, uh, weird, so weird that I, I can't even say this. This is a family show. Um, and so I can't even say some of the weird stuff that they want, but it's not what you would think. It's not like super crude.

Sam Parr 37:05 Is it just like sending, sending pictures back and forth?

Shaan Puri 37:07 Like, I'll give you one example. One example is the guy who's the customer sending pictures to the OnlyFans person asking for their opinion or rating of them.

Sam Parr 37:18 I got it.

Shaan Puri 37:18 And that's like the service that they pay for. And so there's stuff... And, and I guess like the f- two things stood out. One is it's like the free market at work, baby. It's like you, you can really see what humans are all about when you talk to this, to these people, 'cause it's like, man, people are into all kinds of crazy stuff. These are like their real desires, and these are desires they wouldn't admit. And I bet a bunch of these people are, you know, they're the person, they're doctors and they're the CEOs and they're, they're, they're other people. Like, uh, you know, human desires got revealed. They were always there, and they got revealed because OnlyFans gave a, a, a better avenue to, to realize those desires, which is kinda crazy to me. The second thing is I think it's wild how much money is being made in this space and, um, my reaction to it is not kind of like... Like, I think you were asking what's your reaction to-

Sam Parr 38:10 No. My, my question is not who cares that it exists. My question is, uh, you getting involved into it, what, how does it make you feel and how does it make your wife feel? And are you like-

Shaan Puri 38:21 Well, I'm not involved in it.

Sam Parr 38:23 Well, okay, you're, you're, you're contemplating

Shaan Puri 38:26 I'm learning. I'm talking to these people 'cause I find it fascinating. Uh, I have contemplated investing in some of these 'cause I've like, I would not wanna operate this, but yo, if you're, if you're already down there in the sewer, let me know if you got something. I, you know, hand it up here, you know? Like, I, I will, I will provide resources.

Sam Parr 38:42 Dude, do you realize how hypoc- That's so hypocritical.

Shaan Puri 38:45 Why is that hypocritical? I'm saying I don't pers- I would not personally enjoy operating this. I, I also would not liken operating a deli or an ice cream shop or whatever, but I'll go, I'll go eat a scoop. What's the problem with that?

Sam Parr 38:55 Yeah, yeah.

Shaan Puri 38:55 If they need resources, they need capital, or they need advice, I will give them those things. I don't wanna operate. So to me, that's fine. Um, my wife, I-

Sam Parr 39:03 It's also hypocritical of me, by the way, if I consume porn and to also shit on it.

Shaan Puri 39:07 [laughs]

Sam Parr 39:07 So I'm not acting like I'm hol- If I'm not acting as though I'm holier than thou-

Shaan Puri 39:11 Right

Sam Parr 39:11 ... but it is a conundrum.

Shaan Puri 39:13 I told my wife, by the way, I was like, "Hey, I'm thinking about this," and she just goes, "Okay, don't tell me, but if it makes money, that's fine." [laughs]

Sam Parr 39:21 [laughs] Cool.

Shaan Puri 39:24 Um, yeah. I would also say that it's really funny. Uh, I find it like amusing the way that the ecosystem works, where it's like what you think it is is some woman with an account who's putting up content and guys want that, and then she's chatting with them. And it's like actually this like whole other thing. There's agencies that control the accounts. The agencies are 90% dudes. Uh, the chatters are like, you know, these call centers in India and the Philippines. And, um, I find it amusing. I'm like, that's hilarious that that's what this like, that that's how this, like, evolved, and I find that really funny.

Sam Parr 39:59 Dude, I always, I always get their reels on Instagram at night in bed. So like-

Shaan Puri 40:04 Whose reels?

Sam Parr 40:04 ... I, I try not to keep my ph- Uh, so I, uh, like if I'm scrolling on my phone at like 10:00 PM, it's normally like ripped guys and dogs in the day, and then ev- in the evening it's hot girls that pop up on my reel or, you know, like when you're scrolling through your Instagram.

Shaan Puri 40:17 Right.

Sam Parr 40:18 And I'm like, "Wait, what is this?" And then you click on their profile and it links to a Linktree, which goes to a ton of other things.

Shaan Puri 40:22 Well, the funny thing is you see it because what they, one of their main growth tactics is they pay meme accounts, so accounts that just post funny jokes 99% of the time. The way that those accounts make money is OnlyFans people will pay a lot of money to get posted one time at night on those accounts, and then you can delete it in the morning. Um, and that's how they grow their, their own social followings, and so, uh, through these meme distribution channels. And so that's a, it's a funny part of it. But anyways, I don't even know.

Sam Parr 40:51 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 40:51 Didn't plan to talk about this one, but that's a, it's a funny little tangent.

Sam Parr 40:55 So all right, listen, I don't know if this actually is gonna interest you, but I'm gonna try to make this interest you because anything that uses the H word, history, you're not into.

Shaan Puri 41:04 [laughs]

Sam Parr 41:05 Right? That's not... But the total man should understand history 'cause history is interesting.

Shaan Puri 41:09 Yeah, he actually-

Sam Parr 41:09 But listen

Shaan Puri 41:10 ... he actually, you know, has been alive through all of history. [laughs]

Sam Parr 41:14 Yes.

Shaan Puri 41:14 It's like those Sekis men.

Sam Parr 41:16 So I'm reading this book, it's called, like, Killers of the Flower Moon. It's basically about the 1920s Osage Indians. It was Native Americans. They were given this plot of land when they were like, you know, like the government was like, "Hey, you know, we're taking this shit over. Here's your plot of land." Turns out it sat on all this oil, and so they all got rich, and white people take advantage of them and kill them and to steal their money. And I was reading this book, and they keep talking about the Pinkertons.

Sam Parr 41:42 Have you ever heard of the Pinkertons?

Shaan Puri 41:44 Never.

Sam Parr 41:45 So they were like, kept talking. I was like, "Why don't they go to the police?" And they're hiring these guys called the Pinkertons. So Pinkertons, it was basically a guy named Allan Pinkerton. He started this company in 1950, and he started it because he was walking through the woods one day and he saw a bunch of, like, counterfeiters. And he got curious, and he starts watching them, and he starts figuring out what they're doing, and then he calls the police on them. And they're like, "Well, we can't really solve this." He goes, "Give me a few weeks. I'm gonna c- I'll, I'll keep an eye on them, and I think I can figure out what they're doing, where they're going, and I'll be your detective." He does that, and they get arrested. And he's like, "I love doing this. This is very fun." And so he keeps doing it, and it starts like a small, like, little mom-and-pop business where he goes to other people and he goes, "Hey, do you want me to help you solve this crime? Just pay me a little bit of money and I'll go and, I'll go and do it and we'll report it to the police and we'll give them all the evidence that they need." So he does this for a handful of years, and eventually he works his way up to, like, the s- uh, the government. American government is paying him money. And it gets to the point where- His people, this is pre Secret Service, his people, uh, protect Abe Lincoln. So we didn't have the Secret Service back then. Secret Service was invented after Abe Lincoln got shot.

Shaan Puri 42:50 Didn't do a great job, I would say.

Sam Parr 42:51 But he... Yeah. [laughs] He, yeah. [laughs]

Shaan Puri 42:53 Can't win them all, turns out. [laughs]

Sam Parr 42:55 Yeah. Can't, can't win them all. Can't win them all, it turns out. Yeah.

Shaan Puri 42:58 [laughs]

Sam Parr 42:58 That is actually totally true. He's had a bunch of losses. But, uh-

Shaan Puri 43:02 [laughs]

Sam Parr 43:03 So he, so he was like, uh, uh, failed to protect the president, but for some reason the government still liked him, so they started giving him contracts. So anyway, fast-forward to the Pinkertons are still around, and they've done a bunch of controversial shit. So, like, as they grew, companies like, uh, Andrew Carnegie, like the titans of, uh, industry would hire him to basically, like, when there were, uh, unions that would go and strike, they would literally sit outside of a gate of a factory and like, like protest and shit, and then also fight. And so the Pinkertons at one point killed like 24 of these, like protesters.

Shaan Puri 43:35 Wow.

Sam Parr 43:35 It was like a huge thing. And so they're like pretty hardcore.

Shaan Puri 43:37 By the way, you have a note here that says, "At their peak, they had more agents than the standing American Army." Is that true? That's insane.

Sam Parr 43:43 Y- Dude, they had tons of people, and their motto was, "Pinkertons don't sleep. We don't sleep."

Shaan Puri 43:49 Strong, strong.

Sam Parr 43:49 And their logo was a, was an open, was an open eye.

Shaan Puri 43:53 Strong.

Sam Parr 43:53 And so they like... It was just like, "We are, we are there all the time, uh, and we will always find out what's going on."

Shaan Puri 43:59 You know, I thought that Mighty Ducks, "Ducks fly together" was the top, but, uh, this, "We, we don't sleep" might be better than ducks fly together.

Sam Parr 44:07 Yeah, we don't sleep. But so this company was created in 1850, I think I said. I was reading about, uh, coincidentally this other thing going on with, like Amazon. Amazon was having some issues with l- union stuff. And dude, Amazon s- this company still exists, and Amazon hired these Pinkertons. So basically what they do now, so the company was sold in like 2005 or something for like $400 million. So not a significant amount of money for how long it lasted, but because it kind of peaked in the early 1900s. But-

Shaan Puri 44:35 Dude

Sam Parr 44:35 ... they're still hired by-

Shaan Puri 44:37 Look at their website. Look at their website. Have you been to their website?

Sam Parr 44:39 No. What is it?

Shaan Puri 44:39 Pinkerton.com. It just says, "Our Story," and there's literally a picture of Abe Lincoln as the hero image. [laughs]

Sam Parr 44:47 Do they have a hole in his head?

Shaan Puri 44:48 Talking about owning your, owning your failures.

Sam Parr 44:49 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 44:50 These guys love it.

Sam Parr 44:51 Yeah. Yeah. [laughs] It just says, "Whoops." [laughs]

Shaan Puri 44:57 Case study.

Sam Parr 44:58 We've learned from our mistakes.

Shaan Puri 44:59 Yeah, exactly. [laughs] Nobody, nobody fails faster than us. Uh...

Sam Parr 45:04 Yeah, they took fail fast to heart. Um-

Shaan Puri 45:06 So risk advisory, investigations, protection, embedded SMEs. I don't even know what that is. That sounds nasty.

Sam Parr 45:12 Dude, so listen to what they do. So they basically, they'll hire these guys. So Pinkerton, like there's like guards now. I guess, I don't know what they wear, like bunch of blue jeans and a plaid shirt, and they, like, go to, like, they'll go to... Starbucks hired them, and they'll go to the Starbucks to get a coffee, and they'll just try to listen in. And you'll hear, like, one guy talking to his coworker like, "Hey, we should unionize," or, you know, "Fuck this guy. Let's do this and that." And they go and report it back to, like, corporate headquarters. Or they'll try to figure out, like when, uh, Amazon was launching a bunch of stuff, they'll go and just walk around the office and be like, "Is anyone talking about shit they shouldn't be talking about?"

Shaan Puri 45:45 [laughs]

Sam Parr 45:45 And they, like, report it. They still exist. Google hires them. Facebook h- hires them. They still, like, monitor, monitor this stuff, and it's a really f- it's, A, fascinating that a company has existed since 1850 or whenever it was-

Shaan Puri 45:59 Yeah

Sam Parr 45:59 ... and they're still, like, working. And B, I've started thinking about, like, private police and security companies, and there hasn't been that many, like, interesting security startups. So one of them that I actually invested in, it's called Deep Sentinel. Do you know what Deep Sentinel is?

Shaan Puri 46:13 It's the, uh, security, um, it's the security thing where you, like, it's a security camera where, uh, it'll talk. It'll, like, there's like a human watching on the other side.

Sam Parr 46:23 Uh, Deep Sentinel's whole thing, like they make a joke. They go, "Ring's awesome for watching your shit get stolen." And, uh-

Shaan Puri 46:28 [laughs]

Sam Parr 46:29 ... like I, I have Deep Sentinels at my house, and like one time a drunk guy came up to my front door thinking that I was, we were his Airbnb, and like the camera, like catches him and says, "Hey sir, what are you doing here?" And they call the police. So I walk down at like 3:00 AM and I see the cops at my house, like taking away this guy. And so anyway, that's kinda cool. Another one is called Bannerman. Have you heard of Bannerman?

Shaan Puri 46:49 I have heard of this. It's just like bodyguards, right?

Sam Parr 46:52 Dude, we used to do it all the time. So it was a company that went through s- uh, Y Combinator.

Shaan Puri 46:55 Yeah, right.

Sam Parr 46:56 And when you host conferences... Well, I don't know. I'm trying to figure out. The site's still up.

Shaan Puri 47:00 Okay.

Sam Parr 47:00 But basically the, when you host a conference, by law, as well as like practicality, like you need it, you have to hire security. You, you need security guards. And we would use Bannerman, and we would hire, like... A- And they have like a menu. It's like armed guard, $200 an hour. Non-armed guard, 150. Just a huge, scary looking guy, $100 an hour. Like, you could like hire them by the hour, and it was so easy. It was like Uber for security. It was awesome. But there hasn't been that much new startups, like, in this space.

Shaan Puri 47:29 By the way, here's the pricing: unarmed guard, $59 an hour; armed guard, $90 an hour; off-duty police, $145 an hour, and they're armed. [laughs]

Sam Parr 47:39 That's it.

Shaan Puri 47:39 That's it.

Sam Parr 47:40 So I can just get a big scary guy to walk with me for 50 bucks or 80 bucks an hour, whatever it was.

Shaan Puri 47:44 Yeah. I'll do it for free.

Sam Parr 47:45 Um, huh. [laughs]

Shaan Puri 47:46 [laughs]

Sam Parr 47:46 Yeah. I'm not that scary. Uh, [laughs] uh, so anyway, I'm just like interested in this space, and I thought, like, the Pinkerton thing, it was wild that this shit still existed.

Shaan Puri 47:56 Do you know how much they sold for? Is that, or do you know anything about their revenues or anything? Like this is a crazy business.

Sam Parr 48:01 No, and I've looked everywhere. And the founder, uh, he p- he, he says, uh, on his LinkedIn, he goes, "I don't use LinkedIn anymore." That's like what it said on his profile. So I-

Shaan Puri 48:09 Founder's alive?

Sam Parr 48:09 Yeah. His name's Johnny Chin. Um...

Shaan Puri 48:12 How is he alive? 1850.

Sam Parr 48:13 No.

Shaan Puri 48:14 No way.

Sam Parr 48:14 Oh, I thought you were talking about, uh, fucking Bannerman. Uh...

Shaan Puri 48:17 [laughs] No, Pinkerton.

Sam Parr 48:19 No. That dude's for sure dead. Uh, how much does it cost?

Shaan Puri 48:22 [laughs]

Sam Parr 48:23 I, I don't-

Shaan Puri 48:24 How mu- Well, you said they sold to somebody, right? Was it like-

Sam Parr 48:26 Oh, $400 million. In 1999.

Shaan Puri 48:28 $400 million.

Sam Parr 48:28 In like '99. Um, but it's pretty fascinating that it lasted that long. It got sold... So basically, and I was doing even further research on this, the, like, there's this, like... The security industry, it appears as though it's like- ... a handful of big players and then tons of mom and pops. But the handful of big players, there's like three of them, and they each do, like, $10 billion a year in revenue. And what they do is they just acquire tons of, like, mom-and-pop businesses. And so now the biggest ones, you'll n- you'll probably recognize a lot of their T-shirts 'cause you'll see them at, like, um, concerts and shit like that. But then there's a bunch of private ones. Have you heard of Blackwater?

Shaan Puri 49:05 No. That sounds good, though. [laughs]

Sam Parr 49:07 So dude, this guy, his name's A- he's- his name's Erik Prince. Very controversial guy. Uh, I haven't read his book, but I want to. But he was controversial because he started a p- like a ... It was basically a private security company, but they did shit for overseas. So they would, like, um, protect, like, princes in Saudi Arabia and shit like that. And then also when Iraq and all that shit went down, they would do government contracts. And so they would eventually, like, you know, do army shit. So they would, like, protect, like, a convoy and eventually kill a lot of people. And they were, like, hardcore. And Erik Prince, uh, became a billionaire doing this, and then, and he eventually sold it to private equity for billions of dollars. It's called Blackwater, very omni- ominous name. I love that name.

Shaan Puri 49:47 Yeah.

Sam Parr 49:47 But there's, like, a, there's, like, a bunch of interesting players in this space, but not that much, like, of these, like, tech startups. So I think it's a really interesting and fascinating industry.

Shaan Puri 49:56 Uh, I'll give a quick shout-out to this genius restaurant. Uh, so this guy Joshua Goodfield tweeted this out. There's a restaurant that basically named all of its, like, the number one, the number two, the number three, um, office supplies. So it'll be like mini dry erase board or, like, pack of pencils-

Sam Parr 50:12 Oh, that's hilarious

Shaan Puri 50:13 ... so that you can expense, so you can expense all meals from this restaurant. [laughs]

Sam Parr 50:17 It's called-

Shaan Puri 50:17 I don't know if that's a real-

Sam Parr 50:18 ... USB wired mouse, $5 French fries.

Shaan Puri 50:20 Yeah, exactly. [laughs] I thought that was a genius little, uh, little marketing hack. [laughs] Uh, so shout-out to that. And then, um, dude, are you watching the NBA Finals? I got a little, little human interest story for you.

Sam Parr 50:32 Uh, no. But, but tell me about it.

Shaan Puri 50:36 Check this out. It's pretty crazy. So the two teams that are in it is Miami Heat and Denver Nuggets.

Shaan Puri 50:40 So, um, the best player on both the teams have just, like, crazy backstories. So, um, one, uh, there's the guy on the Heat, Jimmy Butler, he, um ... Have you ever seen the movie The Blind Side?

Sam Parr 50:51 I love that movie. That's my favorite movie.

Shaan Puri 50:53 It's his life. So b- [laughs] the guy got kicked out of his house at, like, 13 and was crashing on friends' couches, and then this white woman just took him in. And, um, he just, like, joined their family. And he's like, she, yeah, she's, you know, she didn't have to do that. She just did it. Um, he calls her mom, like, you know, his bro- her, her real kids are his brothers and sisters. Like, that's just, like, the way it was. And he was not ... Like, unlike The Blind Side, though, with The Blind Side, it was like it was pretty clear this guy had, like, NFL talent. Like, he was just, like, a freak athlete and was just huge. And so any coach would kinda tell you that. Not to say that's why she did it, but, like, it was kind of, like, possible. With Jimmy Butler, it was like he wasn't ... Like, he, he went to a junior college. Then he transferred to Marquette, and then he barely got into the NBA. And now he's a star, but, like, it was not obvious.

Sam Parr 51:36 Have you heard, do you know who the real parents in, in Blind Side? The, you know, it's real people.

Shaan Puri 51:40 That's Michael Oher.

Sam Parr 51:41 He owned a sh-

Shaan Puri 51:41 Right? [laughs]

Sam Parr 51:43 Yeah. He owned a shitload of KFCs and, like, Long John Silvers and shit.

Shaan Puri 51:46 Right.

Sam Parr 51:46 And I googled him. He sold it for $400 million, all of his franchises.

Shaan Puri 51:51 Good things happen to good people.

Sam Parr 51:52 So good things happen to good people.

Shaan Puri 51:53 [laughs]

Sam Parr 51:53 And, and so, like, Jimmy Butler was-

Shaan Puri 51:54 By the way, so this woman i- this woman that took him in, single mom also. So single mom with seven kids did this, took him in, basically put a roof over his head. And, uh, he ends up grinding his way to the NBA and is, is, you know, does amazing things. He also was doing something really, really funny. So back when COVID hit, the NBA, to keep the season going, they had to create a bubble. And many sports had to do this. They created a bubble, which was, like, a basically a-

Sam Parr 52:17 Didn't they do it, like, at Disneyland?

Shaan Puri 52:19 Yeah, they did it at Disney World, I think. So they did it in Disney World in Orlando. It was like you live on, on campus. Nobody comes in or out. Like, if food gets delivered, it gets delivered in a, like, sealed box 30 feet away, and it gets, you know, like, given to you. And they just, like, tested everybody ev- daily, and if anybody ever had anything, they, they got kicked out. And so during, during that process, Jimmy Butler realizes, "Yo, supply, demand is out of whack." So he starts, he's making coffees. He brought a, he brought a fancy coffee machine, and he starts making coffees. And, um, people are like, "Yo, can I get some coffee? The, the coffee here sucks. I want the, I want the good coffee." He's like, "Yeah, cool, man. It's $100."

Sam Parr 52:55 That's half.

Shaan Puri 52:55 They're like, "What the ... $100?" He's like, "It's the price." He's like, "These are-"

Sam Parr 52:59 You got somewhere else to go? Yeah.

Shaan Puri 53:00 He's like, "These are NBA players who cannot leave this bubble." And so, and they're like, "All right, man, fuck it," and they just start giving him $100 [laughs] for this coffee. And so he creates this brand. I think it's called Big Face Coffee. Uh, he cr- And now he's like, so he, he ... And during the bubble, people wanna know what it's like in there, so a lot of the guys were, like, vlogging. So this was, like, one of the storylines. "Yo, Jimmy opened up a coffee shop. He's just, like, you know, killing us on this coffee." And he's like, "Yo, I, I make the best coffee. It's the best coffee in the world, $100." And, uh, and so now he's, like, creating a spinoff brand of actually that, that, that coffee brand, which is, I think, kinda cool.

Shaan Puri 53:31 The other guy-

Sam Parr 53:31 And who's the other guy? That, that big white guy?

Shaan Puri 53:33 The giant white guy, so, uh, Jokic. So he's-

Sam Parr 53:35 Dude, he looks mean. That guy looks mean. I saw he got into it with-

Shaan Puri 53:38 So he's from a small town in Serbia, Sombor, Serbia.

Sam Parr 53:42 Didn't he i- He got into it with some dude on the, on the sidelines too I saw.

Shaan Puri 53:46 Uh, [laughs] th- yeah, that's funny. That was the owner of ano- another team.

Sam Parr 53:50 Right.

Shaan Puri 53:50 He basically, like, bullied an owner of ano- another team. So, um, so this guy's, he's awesome. So he basically, his story's even crazier, I think. So this guy's born in the middle-of-nowhere Serbia. He's got two older brothers. And, um, he's, he, he's, even though they're really tall, he only likes one sport: horseback riding. [laughs]

Sam Parr 54:09 Oof.

Shaan Puri 54:10 And so, so he's just falls in love with horses. He's always on the horse track or whatever. But because he's so tall, like, uh, you know, when he wasn't on with the horses, he starts playing basketball. And, um, what's interesting is that nobody would've ever known of this guy except for the fact that, um, w- there was one team that's had a business model. And their business model was basically let's find prospects that might have, like, NBA poten- We don't care if we win now, but let's just find, like, big dudes who got a lot of potential that, like, might get bought out by the bigger clubs and let's ... They're like kinda like house flippers. They're like, "Let's buy this guy. Let's see if we can turn, like, you know, polish up the asset, and let's flip him to a bigger team in Europe. Or let's hold their rights and maybe we get their, uh, maybe the NBA team will have to buy, buy us out And they had done this with a couple of guys. And so the guy's reading the newspaper one day, and he sees that at some youth basketball game, like say some eighth grade game, some kid, you know, had like 25 points and 25 rebounds. And he's like, "Huh." So he goes and he finds this guy, and he's like, "Hey, you ever thought about playing pro basketball?" He's like, "No." And he's like, "Come with me." So at like, I don't know, age 13, he like leaves his hometown and joins this like team and they're like... And so you're... So then you think the story is, because he's the best player in the NBA now. So it's like he must've been, huh, like-

Sam Parr 55:19 He's, he, he's the best now?

Shaan Puri 55:21 He's the best player in the world right now. And so it's like-

Sam Parr 55:22 And how tall is he?

Shaan Puri 55:23 He's like 7'0", 7'1", something like that. And so they're like, you, you would think, oh, he must've been dominating in Serbia, and then like, you know, he went to the, these like, you know, tier four league. Like, you know, he must be awesome. No. He didn't even play. The coach was like, "This kid is so fat. He is just so out of shape. I will not play this guy." And so he's only allowed to go to practice, and they're like, "Until you can run, like, until you're in shape, we're... This is not gonna work." He's like, "Well, uh, what do I do?" They're like, "Well, what's your diet?" And the guy was drinking like [laughs] two gallons of Coke a day.

Sam Parr 55:52 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 55:52 He's just... He was addicted to Coke. He just loved Coke, drinking Coke. And so they were like, "You gotta stop that," [laughs] like, first of all. And, um, and so he sto- he stops drinking Coke. He loses like 30, 40 pounds in the course of like a few months just by changing that like one habit, and going and running every day in practice. 'Cause he won't... They won't give him the ball. He just had to run on the side while everybody else practices. And so he's doing that. Finally, he, um, starts playing. He becomes like the top player in, on his team. Like, as soon as he like was able to get in shape, he was the top player on his team. And he gets drafted in the second round. Like, basically he's like one of the last picks. The NBA draft, if you go watch the video of like, oh, I wanna see when they- they got drafted. Like, you've seen when LeBron gets drafted. He gets on stage, he shakes the commissioner's hand. He smiles. The light bulbs are flashing. Like, people know this is the start of the... A star is born.

Sam Parr 56:41 What, was he just like walking by and they're like, "Uh, here, take this hat. Here, just take that one"?

Shaan Puri 56:45 Even better. They just cut to a Taco Bell commercial, and at the bottom ticker it just said, "Pick number 41, Nikola Jokic." And just like st- It goes across the screen, it goes away, and it's a Cheesy Gordita Crunch ad. [laughs]

Sam Parr 56:56 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 56:56 And so he, he didn't even have that starting moment 'cause nobody thought this guy would turn into anything. And then he's basically become, you know, the best player in the world since, and then-

Sam Parr 57:03 How, how old is he?

Shaan Puri 57:05 He's only like 27, 28, something like that.

Sam Parr 57:07 Yeah.

Shaan Puri 57:07 He's, he's pretty young still. And, um, he actually wouldn't have even made it to the NBA. Like, this team in Barcelona was gonna buy him. That was gonna be the flip. It was like he goes from the Serbian team to the Barcelona team. And the day, like the day before he was supposed to sign the contract, like it was all ready, the lawyer just had to finish one thing, he played in a game and he was so terrible that the team backed out. So he had no choice but, but to go join like the NBA team that had bought his rights or drafted his rights. And he's like, "Ah, I guess I'll go to the NBA then." Like, you know, "I, I, I don't really know if anything's gonna come of this, but whatever." And so he goes, and he's this very stoic guy. Like, in all his interviews, they're like... They have these nar- The media has all these narratives. They're like, "How has becoming a new dad helped you become a better basketball player?" And he'll just look at them, be like, "What? It doesn't... "

Sam Parr 57:49 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 57:49 "That's not, that, that's not how that works." [laughs] He's just like, he's like this very matter-of-fact, like, you know like, you know like the kinda like Dagestani guys in the UFC? He's kinda like that, but for basketball. So he's a fan- a fascinating character, and it reminds me of this quote that I heard from this, this VC. I was like, you know, what's... Uh, he had this Twitter bio, um, this guy Nico, uh, Nico, I don't know how you say his last name. Bo- Bonsantos, Bonasastos? I don't, I don't know exactly how you say it. But-

Sam Parr 58:12 Oh, from, uh, General Catalyst?

Shaan Puri 58:14 Yeah, from GC. Exactly. The guy, he invested in Snapchat super early on. And, um, I was like, "Nico, why is your bio, why is your bio quote what it is?" And it, his quote was, um, "Talent is everywhere. Opportunity is not." So it's talent is evenly distributed, but opportunity is not. And I was like, "Why is that, what does that mean?" He goes, "Uh, because it's true." He goes, "Talent is everywhere, but opportunity's not evenly distributed. And if I do my job right, we're gonna distribute opportunity to more people who have the talent." And I think about both these guys, the two guys that are starring in the NBA. Like, you know, they're kind of like one little bounce of the Plinko chip away from it being a zero. And instead they get to be world famous basketball players. It's like, if this guy didn't get discovered while playing in like a youth farm league in Serbia, or Jimmy Butler didn't get, you know, adopted by this woman, like who knows if they would've ended up actually even getting their shot. Um, and it's like that's how fragile, like, you know, s- like success and failure

Shaan Puri 59:08 can be.

Sam Parr 59:09 Dude, last night I went and, uh, hung out at this like, uh... Have you heard of Flowtrack? Or no, or Flowsports? Sorry.

Shaan Puri 59:15 Yes.

Sam Parr 59:15 Flowsports.

Shaan Puri 59:16 Yes.

Sam Parr 59:16 So Flowsports, uh, started as, um, uh, it was basically this guy would go, they started out of UT, University of Texas. This guy would go and film track meets and wrestling meets, uh, because-

Shaan Puri 59:28 Stuff that wasn't gonna be broadcasted otherwise

Sam Parr 59:30 ... stuff that wasn't gonna be broadcast. And he was just like, uh, he was a track and field athlete, and I think they had friends that were wrestlers, and he's like, "But you know, I'm, I'm a fan of running, and like people love that shit, but just not on TV." So he starts filming this, and then he puts it online and, and he forms a company and people start buying it and paying him like 100 bucks a year to watch this stuff. And it's been around for 13 years now, and now they do over 100 million in revenue. And I was like, "What's the fastest growing segment?" And he said, uh, uh, um, "Motorsports." And I was like, "Oh, like NASCAR and shit?" He's like, "No, it's like these like, it's like the pre-NASCAR." So it's like with 18-year-old kids, they do this thing called dirt track. So it's like, it looks like a buggy kinda, and they're all-

Shaan Puri 1:00:07 [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:00:07 It's like, he's like, "It's grassroots." But he didn't say it, but it's like redneck shit. And he's like, "That's our fastest growing segment." But we have like 18 sports, I think. They have wrestling, grappling, running, cross country-

Shaan Puri 1:00:18 Right

Sam Parr 1:00:18 ... track and field, whatever, all this stuff. And so he, um, I went and hung out at their office 'cause they had a little party, and I was with like three different guys who had won gold medals in the Olympics. One guy in the decathlon, one guy in the mile, and uh, some other guys. And first of all, here's what, what was interesting. One of the, a, a bunch of the Olympians, I was like, "Hey, do you still run?" You know, they're like maybe 40 now, and like, "Do you still run?" And they're like, "Not a chance. Like it was my job, and like I don't wanna do that at all anymore. Like I'll exercise and go for walks, and I'll lift weights-"

Shaan Puri 1:00:47 Right

Sam Parr 1:00:47 ... "but I don't wanna like run like I used to run. I'm done with that." And the second thing what's interesting is like- Dude, these guys are all freaks. Like, one guy, his name's Trey Hardy. You can look him up. His body is crazy, and they are freaks of nature. But it's cool being around people like that who are, A, the best in the world at something. Like, they are literally... If they won a gold medal, at that point, they are the best in the world at what they do.

Shaan Puri 1:01:11 Right.

Sam Parr 1:01:11 And it's so fascinating to, like, hear the stories. Like, they would tell stories. They're like, "Dude, that guy, we used to go to the hotel and he'd be wearing flip-flops. And he'd be like, 'Hey, I bet you I could touch the ceiling.'" And the ceiling was 15 feet high, and he would just jump and just touch the ceiling. And they were like, "We just would see little, like, things like that. This guy would do shit all the time where he'd be like, 'Watch this. I bet I can backflip.' But he would backflip, but he would jump so high in the air. And, like, we would just see these, like, freakish stuff all the time." And so I was thinking, would you give up any of the success that you've had so far in order to be a broke but Olympic medal winner or, like, the best athlete or whatever in the world? 'Cause I was thinking about that, and I think I would.

Shaan Puri 1:01:50 No chance on the, uh, the gold medal. Well, best athlete in the world, yes, I would do that. That's-

Sam Parr 1:01:55 But there's a lot of sports where you're, you could, like, be the best, like, NCAA wrestler or best, like, normal wrestler.

Shaan Puri 1:02:00 Yeah, yeah.

Sam Parr 1:02:00 And you'd be like-

Shaan Puri 1:02:01 I meant overall athlete. No, no, no. If it's, if it's, uh, I'm, I'm the fastest miler or NCAA, you know, uh, nation- you know, national champion or whatever, no chance. I've said this before. The Olympics are for suckers. Uh, I-

Sam Parr 1:02:17 Oh, you are so crazy.

Shaan Puri 1:02:18 It- [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:02:18 'Cause I'm hanging out with these guys and I'm like-

Shaan Puri 1:02:20 Congrats

Sam Parr 1:02:20 ... "You guys are having it."

Shaan Puri 1:02:20 You're the best bobsledder the world has ever seen.

Sam Parr 1:02:24 Dude.

Shaan Puri 1:02:24 You've dedicated your entire life to this absolutely arbitrary thing that got you, that got you no money, that got you, uh, you know, no, no skills beyond this. [laughs] I'm just joking.

Sam Parr 1:02:35 Dude, I am so-

Shaan Puri 1:02:36 But-

Sam Parr 1:02:36 I so disagree because they'll, they were asking me advice on business shit. And I'm like, "Hey, just so you know, I'm like the 100,000th most successful person in America." Maybe, like-

Shaan Puri 1:02:46 That's what I wanna do. I wanna play a game where the 100,000th person wins and has an awesome life, not where I have to be the best person in the world-

Sam Parr 1:02:54 Oh, man

Shaan Puri 1:02:54 ... and even then I gotta start over at age 27 and create a new career because I'm done with-

Sam Parr 1:03:00 Dude

Shaan Puri 1:03:00 ... uh, the thing and my joints don't work anymore.

Sam Parr 1:03:02 These guys had shaved arms and shaved legs. I was just staring at those calf muscles.

Shaan Puri 1:03:06 [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:03:06 And I was like, "Dude, I can see every vein in your forearm. That's so awesome. I would kill to have that. I want some of that vascularity. Like, look at that vein pop."

Shaan Puri 1:03:15 But I-

Sam Parr 1:03:15 Like, I just love that

Shaan Puri 1:03:15 ... I thought it was cool. Uh, his business advice was great, but then he said he wants to put butter on my chest, and I didn't understand that.

Sam Parr 1:03:20 [laughs] He didn't. Like, they kept saying I had a really nice, uh, ball calf at the top of my leg. Like, dude, they, their calf muscles were just so solid, like a little tennis ball was stuck in there.

Shaan Puri 1:03:29 [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:03:30 I just saw that. I'm like... [laughs] So I remember I was thinking of this one guy, and I told Sarah after, I was like, "Dude, I bet that guy's wife is so hot." And like, she just, she just, like-

Shaan Puri 1:03:38 [laughs] That guy's wife. You said to your wife? [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:03:42 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 1:03:43 Angela.

Sam Parr 1:03:44 Dude, they're so lucky. W- and then she's like, "Well, he worked hard." And I was like, "No, the wife. That wife is so lucky."

Shaan Puri 1:03:51 [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:03:53 Can you believe that she gets to see that bod? Like, I was just thinking about that shit, man, and I just love these Olympians, man. I'd give it all up just to be, to be a gold medal-

Shaan Puri 1:04:02 Right

Sam Parr 1:04:02 ... in, in the high jump. So I don't know where we go from here. This is the Total Man episode.

Shaan Puri 1:04:07 [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:04:09 I mean-

Shaan Puri 1:04:10 It ends up with Sam loving men. [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:04:13 Dude, I do. Like, I can't... You just see a guy with, like, you know, like some sick calf muscles, you gotta admire it, you know?

Shaan Puri 1:04:20 Yeah, I guess you, I guess you do. Uh-

Sam Parr 1:04:22 You don't do that?

Shaan Puri 1:04:23 [laughs] Yeah, definitely not the way you do. [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:04:26 [laughs]

Shaan Puri 1:04:29 Like, there's been several people that come on this podcast, and I'm like, "I'm pretty sure Sam's just imagining them without their shirt on right now."

Sam Parr 1:04:36 Yeah. [laughs]

Shaan Puri 1:04:36 [laughs] I feel like Sam does that, like, pretty frequently.

Sam Parr 1:04:38 [laughs] Yeah. She- you have some sick pecs, bro.

Shaan Puri 1:04:42 [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:04:42 How'd you, how'd you get some of those things? Yeah, if I see a guy with big pecs, I just wanna ask him a bunch of questions. Uh... [laughs]

Shaan Puri 1:04:48 [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:04:50 I don't know where we go from here.

Shaan Puri 1:04:51 All right. This was fun. [laughs]

Sam Parr 1:04:52 This was something. [upbeat music]