Ep# 12 | WTF is The Restaurant Game? Nikhil w/ Pooja Dhingra, Zorawar Kalra & Riyaaz Amlani

1. 0:00 – 1:39

   Intro

   1. NKNikhil Kamath0:00

      [upbeat music] This show, uh, is meant solely as an exercise in education for entrepreneurs. [upbeat music] Uh, I think this will be incredibly useful to so many young people who want to start a restaurant.

   2. NKNikhil Kamath0:15

      This is a crash course in restauranteuring. [upbeat music]

   3. NKNikhil Kamath0:36

      Okay, guys, ready, start? [upbeat music] Hi, guys.

   4. NKNikhil Kamath0:46

      Hello.

   5. NKNikhil Kamath0:46

      Thank you for, uh, flying down to Bangalore.

   6. NKNikhil Kamath0:49

      On a Friday night.

   7. NKNikhil Kamath0:50

      On a Friday night. I hope this is not the worst way to spend your Friday night. We'll try and make it as fun as we can. Uh, the intent of this show is very much not to make it about ourselves. Uh, so typically, you know, none of our egos come into play or what we do too much. I- it's more focused on an entrepreneur who wants to start a restaurant. I think pretty much everybody wants to open one. At some point in their life, they've thought of it. I've thought of it. I've attempted it and failed a bunch of times. So we'll focus on that, and through the show, let's try and cover all that might be needed in opening a restaurant, and every point that we can cover, we'll try and approach.

2. 1:39 – 4:11

   Pooja's Childhood

   1. NKNikhil Kamath1:39

      Let's start with introductions. Uh, let's start with Pooja first.

   2. PDPooja Dhingra1:43

      Hmm.

   3. NKNikhil Kamath1:44

      Tell us about you.

   4. PDPooja Dhingra1:46

      Where do I start from?

   5. NKNikhil Kamath1:48

      From the beginning.

   6. PDPooja Dhingra1:48

      From the beginning.

   7. NKNikhil Kamath1:49

      [chuckles]

   8. PDPooja Dhingra1:50

      So I'm from Bombay. I grew up there.

   9. NKNikhil Kamath1:52

      Yeah.

   10. PDPooja Dhingra1:52

       Uh, I started baking when I was six years old, uh, with my aunt, and I just thought it was really beautiful, simple ingredients.

   11. NKNikhil Kamath1:58

       Tell us a bit about your parents as well.

   12. PDPooja Dhingra2:00

       Um, my parents, so my dad, um, ran his own business, which was, um, importing ball bearings, and my mom was, uh, a, a housewife, and so she used to cook and bake a lot, so I used to bake with her. And-

   13. NKNikhil Kamath2:14

       Is there a lot of money in ball bearings? So what we're trying to do is a euphemized way of asking was your dad wealthy?

   14. PDPooja Dhingra2:20

       Um, he wasn't initially. He [chuckles] he started off, uh, you know... H- he was kicked out from the family, so he had to start his own business. It took him a lot of time to kind of find his ground. Um, so we actually grew up with, uh, you know, being very conservative and being told that, "You can't afford this," and, "You can't do that," but they did the best that they could for us, right? Uh, we went to a good school, and then as we grew up, like, his business also did well, and then that kind of, um, you know, we saw him, uh... At least for me, that was, uh, that was a great sort of thing to see what you can build from scratch. And, and I always knew that if I had to do anything, it would never be, um, a job. I would always do something of myself, so-

   15. NKNikhil Kamath3:03

       And things got better while you were in high school or something?

   16. PDPooja Dhingra3:06

       Things got better when I was in high school, and then I was lucky enough to go, um, to study, uh, hospitality in Switzerland, um, followed by culinary school in Paris, and then there was a stop, 'cause then I wanted to go to Australia. I didn't want to come back. I just wanted to go everywhere, and they said, "It's enough." So before I went to Paris, I kind of spoke to them and told them that this is my plan. Um-

   17. NKNikhil Kamath3:27

       Wait, wait, so you went to which school in Bombay?

   18. PDPooja Dhingra3:29

       Bombay Scottish.

   19. NKNikhil Kamath3:30

       And you were there up until what year, what age?

   20. PDPooja Dhingra3:32

       Uh, 10th standard.

   21. NKNikhil Kamath3:34

       Uh-huh.

   22. PDPooja Dhingra3:34

       Then I went to Jai Hind, uh-

   23. NKNikhil Kamath3:36

       Mm-hmm

   24. PDPooja Dhingra3:36

       ... College for years.

   25. NKNikhil Kamath3:36

       And you continued baking from age six along the way?

   26. PDPooja Dhingra3:39

       Along the way. I would s- I was not a very good student, but I was very loved, and I was a teacher's pet, 'cause every Monday, I was the kid who got brownies and cookies-

   27. NKNikhil Kamath3:48

       Mm

   28. PDPooja Dhingra3:48

       ... and chocolates to class.

   29. NKNikhil Kamath3:49

       Mm.

   30. PDPooja Dhingra3:49

       So everyone loved me because of that.
3. 4:11 – 8:09

   Why Pooja Quit Law School

   1. PDPooja Dhingra4:11

      normal chocolate brownies.

   2. NKNikhil Kamath4:13

      Mm.

   3. PDPooja Dhingra4:13

      Um, but yeah, and then, uh, I actually thought I wanted to do law.

   4. NKNikhil Kamath4:16

      Mm.

   5. PDPooja Dhingra4:16

      So I joined law school, 'cause, you know, being in the F&B world at that point, for a girl, was just like, "Are you really gonna do this?"

   6. NKNikhil Kamath4:23

      Mm.

   7. PDPooja Dhingra4:23

      And then, uh, two weeks into law school, I said, "This is not for me," and I went to them and I said, "I want to quit." And they said, "What would you like to do?" I said, "Own a cafe someday, get into hospitality." Um, they said, "Okay, education is important," so I picked Switzerland as a school-

   8. NKNikhil Kamath4:38

      Mm-hmm

   9. PDPooja Dhingra4:38

      ... and, uh, spent four years there.

   10. NKNikhil Kamath4:40

       Worth it, like, going to Switzerland to study?

   11. PDPooja Dhingra4:42

       Oh, man.

   12. NKNikhil Kamath4:43

       Yeah?

   13. PDPooja Dhingra4:43

       It was, it was incredible.

   14. NKNikhil Kamath4:44

       Are there any options in India at all to learn baking, cooking?

   15. PDPooja Dhingra4:47

       Many, many. Now many. Especially baking now, yes. Back then, there weren't too many.

   16. NKNikhil Kamath4:52

       But do they compare with the college you went to?

   17. PDPooja Dhingra4:54

       I would say yes. In fact, Le Bon in, in Bangalore-

   18. NKNikhil Kamath4:57

       Yeah

   19. PDPooja Dhingra4:57

       ... is great. I mean, if it existed when I was younger, I would have gone there instead of going abroad.

   20. NKNikhil Kamath5:02

       Really?

   21. PDPooja Dhingra5:02

       Mm-hmm.

   22. NKNikhil Kamath5:03

       I go to Le Bon almost every weekend to have avocado toast and coffee-

   23. PDPooja Dhingra5:07

       Mm

   24. NKNikhil Kamath5:07

       ... in the morning.

   25. PDPooja Dhingra5:08

       Yeah.

   26. NKNikhil Kamath5:08

       Breakfast. Really good place.

   27. PDPooja Dhingra5:10

       Yeah.

   28. NKNikhil Kamath5:10

       Okay, so you went to Switzerland, and then?

   29. PDPooja Dhingra5:12

       Then I went to Paris, 'cause in Switzerland, I worked through different departments, realized that the pastry kitchen is where the heart really is, and then I came back to them and told them, "I want to go to Paris." And my dad said, "It's too expensive. Not right now." And then I convinced him. I gave him a business plan and said, "But I want to come back and open this thing, and I want to do this and this and this," and they somehow believed me.

   30. NKNikhil Kamath5:33

       How expensive is it going to a cooking school or baking school in Switzerland?
4. 8:09 – 15:47

   Early Hustle to Macaroon Fame

   1. NKNikhil Kamath8:10

      Wow

   2. PDPooja Dhingra8:10

      ... which was amazing.

   3. NKNikhil Kamath8:11

      And then you came back to India, and then?

   4. PDPooja Dhingra8:13

      I came back to India in 2010, and 20- 2009, and, um, just saw that, you know, there was, um... It actually felt like all the hotels and restaurants kind of had the same pastry chef, 'cause you got, like, five desserts in, in everywhere you went, and there was, like, that blueberry cheesecake and, you know. And I think Mocha was on- the only one, I have to say, that was differentiated.

   5. ZKZorawar Kalra8:37

      Thank you for the plug, Pooja. [laughing]

   6. PDPooja Dhingra8:38

      No!

   7. ZKZorawar Kalra8:38

      [laughing]

   8. PDPooja Dhingra8:39

      But I told you I made the, um, Rohan and I made the, um, that, uh, chocolate, uh-

   9. ZKZorawar Kalra8:45

      The Vertigo?

   10. PDPooja Dhingra8:46

       Yeah.

   11. ZKZorawar Kalra8:47

       Or the Avalanche.

   12. PDPooja Dhingra8:48

       The Avalanche.

   13. ZKZorawar Kalra8:48

       The Avalanche.

   14. PDPooja Dhingra8:49

       Mocha used to have this chocolate avalanche that was great. Um, and so I fell in love with macaroons when I was in Paris.

   15. ZKZorawar Kalra8:54

       Mm.

   16. PDPooja Dhingra8:54

       I came back, saw that everything was too similar, found that there was an opportunity here, decided to test it out. So started baking from my home kitchen. Um, I was in every mall, every event, everything, and just got people to taste it, and I saw that people loved it. And 2009, 2010, got my first small 500-square-foot kitchen, started working with a team of three, and then-

   17. NKNikhil Kamath9:18

       Where was this?

   18. PDPooja Dhingra9:19

       Uh, in Lower Parel, in Bombay.

   19. NKNikhil Kamath9:20

       Mm-hmm.

   20. PDPooja Dhingra9:21

       And slowly just, you know, started. I had my little kiosk at Good Earth in, um, Lower Parel, which was what really helped us, 'cause it was the, the same exact, uh, target ma- uh, audience, and then slowly started doing caterings and parties. I was teaching a lot, so I was teaching baking. Um, I enjoyed doing that, yeah.

   21. NKNikhil Kamath9:40

       Is that a profession that pays well, too, teaching?

   22. PDPooja Dhingra9:43

       It does, and-

   23. NKNikhil Kamath9:44

       Teaching at a college or, like, personally?

   24. PDPooja Dhingra9:46

       No, personally, at our studio. So wanted to know what I learned in Paris, et cetera. So I said, looked at it, saw it as a good opportunity, and actually, initially, the classes paid the bills more than the pastry. 'Cause everyone was like-

   25. NKNikhil Kamath10:00

       Mm

   26. PDPooja Dhingra10:01

       ... "Okay, what are you gonna teach us today?" And I would just do, like, week-long sessions, and people would fly down from all over India and come and do these classes.

   27. NKNikhil Kamath10:07

       And you found them through social media?

   28. PDPooja Dhingra10:09

       No, back then, there, I used to have a blog. This is, like, 13 years ago, so Instagram didn't exist, and Facebook was just like, you know... Um, I used to have a blog, and-

   29. NKNikhil Kamath10:18

       [clears throat]

   30. PDPooja Dhingra10:18

       - then just through, uh, press. Yeah.
5. 15:47 – 16:53

   Pooja’s World: Books, Masterchef, & Podcasts

   1. PDPooja Dhingra15:47

      Um, I've also written, so I'm gonna divert it now. [laughing]

   2. NKNikhil Kamath15:51

      Yes.

   3. PDPooja Dhingra15:51

      Seven cookbooks.

   4. NKNikhil Kamath15:52

      Those books, yeah. Wow. Amazing. MasterChef?

   5. PDPooja Dhingra15:54

      Yeah, and MasterChef is on right now. I have a podcast called No Sugar Coat-

   6. NKNikhil Kamath15:58

      Mm

   7. PDPooja Dhingra15:58

      ... which basically, I was really frustrated with everyone just saying that life is a piece of cake, and life is a cakewalk, and I was like: It's really not. It's, like, hard, and it's tough, and everyone just sees, you know, the, the 1% of success, but the backstory is quite different. So I started having these conversations with people from the F&B world, and the new season is out soon. Riyaaz is on in this season.

   8. NKNikhil Kamath16:22

      Are you an outgoing person?

   9. PDPooja Dhingra16:23

      Um... Wow, this podcast [laughing] is really-

   10. NKNikhil Kamath16:28

       It's a, there, it's a-

   11. PDPooja Dhingra16:29

       Where are we going with this? [laughing]

   12. NKNikhil Kamath16:29

       It's a proper interrogation.

   13. PDPooja Dhingra16:31

       [laughing]

   14. NKNikhil Kamath16:31

       There's a, there's a lamp over her head.

   15. PDPooja Dhingra16:33

       Where's the tequila when I most need it? [laughing]

   16. NKNikhil Kamath16:33

       Yeah, they're like, "Batao!" [laughing] Batao, tere dost kaun hai? [laughing] Kis kis se mili ho, huh? Kahan ala jala?

   17. PDPooja Dhingra16:41

       My mom hasn't asked me so many questions.

   18. NKNikhil Kamath16:42

       [laughing] I think the mom has gotten in touch with him.

   19. PDPooja Dhingra16:44

       Yeah! I'm like, "What's going on?"

   20. NKNikhil Kamath16:45

       He's the vessel through which the questions are being asked. I spoke to her. [laughing]

   21. PDPooja Dhingra16:49

       Okay, I'll tell you something.

   22. NKNikhil Kamath16:49

       I did.

   23. PDPooja Dhingra16:50

       So-

   24. NKNikhil Kamath16:50

       Ah.

   25. PDPooja Dhingra16:51

       So, um,

6. 16:53 – 17:58

   How Covid Changed Pooja

   1. PDPooja Dhingra16:53

      before COVID-

   2. NKNikhil Kamath16:54

      Mm-hmm

   3. PDPooja Dhingra16:54

      ... I was a very different person.

   4. NKNikhil Kamath16:55

      Mm.

   5. PDPooja Dhingra16:55

      Um, I was a person who thought everyone was her best friend, and everyone was... I was close to everybody. And then I actually started seeing a leadership coach, uh, during COVID, um, and changed a lot of the way I, I view myself, the way I view life. I wanted to-

   6. NKNikhil Kamath17:10

      Would you like to tell us more about that? Change yourself how?

   7. PDPooja Dhingra17:13

      Um, I always felt very, um, underconfident, and with the finance and business part of, uh, of Le15. Um, because I just, I, I'm a creative person. Um, the baking is great, marketing, all of that is great, but when it comes to finance, I feel like I was never... And for most girls, right, you're never spoken to and told, "This is how you should run your finances. This is what you mean." Like, even all my friends now, either their husbands or their fathers invest their money. Not too many people, not too many girls actually doing that themselves. Um, and so I was always, I always felt like I didn't know enough, and I had, like, an accountant who stole a lot of money from me, made me really... Like, it, it,

7. 17:58 – 22:36

   Reason for Scarcity of Female Chefs

   1. PDPooja Dhingra17:58

      it put me through quite a bit.

   2. NKNikhil Kamath17:59

      Is this something you would recommend? When we l- went around looking at the participation of women in restaurant ownership-

   3. PDPooja Dhingra18:06

      Hmm

   4. NKNikhil Kamath18:07

      ... the number is abysmally low.

   5. PDPooja Dhingra18:08

      Yeah.

   6. NKNikhil Kamath18:09

      Uh, which is uncanny, because unlike other industries, women tend to be better cooks, right?

   7. PDPooja Dhingra18:15

      Mm.

   8. NKNikhil Kamath18:15

      I mean, historically and culturally-

   9. PDPooja Dhingra18:17

      Mm

   10. NKNikhil Kamath18:17

       ... women have cooked. Better managers. Yeah.

   11. PDPooja Dhingra18:19

       Yeah.

   12. NKNikhil Kamath18:19

       Especially multitasking.

   13. PDPooja Dhingra18:21

       ... but it's, it, it's not really, at least now it's changing, and we, we see a lot of women, um, in the kitchen as well. Not only in the pastry kitchen, but also in the, the hot kitchen. But 15, 20 years ago, it was unheard of, you know? It wasn't... It is a very, like, male-dominated- the kitchen, a professional kitchen tends to be, uh, very, like-

   14. SPSpeaker18:41

       Why is that, though?

   15. PDPooja Dhingra18:42

       It's long hours, it's tougher. Parents don't want their daughters to do that. Like, it's, it's a lot of cultural, you know, I think, but it's-

   16. SPSpeaker18:50

       Very high stress.

   17. RARiyaaz Amlani18:51

       No, but can I- can we please not make it about being a boys' club? 'Cause it's not. Okay, the fact remains that it's a cultural stigma.

   18. SPSpeaker19:00

       Mm.

   19. RARiyaaz Amlani19:00

       Right? People don't want, uh-

   20. SPSpeaker19:03

       Their daughters.

   21. RARiyaaz Amlani19:03

       Their daughters-

   22. PDPooja Dhingra19:04

       No, I mean, I'm friends with all the-

   23. RARiyaaz Amlani19:06

       ... "Beti, beti," bahar mein kaam karti hai or something like that.

   24. SPSpeaker19:07

       But I think that's changing.

   25. RARiyaaz Amlani19:08

       No, I agree. I agree.

   26. SPSpeaker19:09

       It's changing.

   27. RARiyaaz Amlani19:09

       But the taboo is not because it's a boys' club. It is a boys' club, because somebody needs to do that, but it's not because-

   28. PDPooja Dhingra19:16

       Mm

   29. RARiyaaz Amlani19:16

       ... uh, women tend to, if they get into the hospitality business, they tend to gravitate towards pastry-

   30. PDPooja Dhingra19:21

       They do
8. 22:36 – 24:05

   Zorawar's Passion for Food

   1. SPSpeaker22:36

      after some time.

   2. PDPooja Dhingra22:37

      Yeah.

   3. SPSpeaker22:37

      So you get a break, some respite. So I know Zorawar a little bit.

   4. ZKZorawar Kalra22:40

      Yes.

   5. SPSpeaker22:40

      We met recently and hung out, uh, and, uh-

   6. ZKZorawar Kalra22:43

      At a wonderful cafe.

   7. SPSpeaker22:45

      At a wonderful cafe in Goa.

   8. ZKZorawar Kalra22:46

      Yes.

   9. SPSpeaker22:47

      Yeah. And I know a little bit-

   10. ZKZorawar Kalra22:48

       Run by another fantastic female restaurateur.

   11. SPSpeaker22:50

       Yeah, actually.

   12. ZKZorawar Kalra22:51

       Nonetheless.

   13. SPSpeaker22:52

       Yeah.

   14. ZKZorawar Kalra22:52

       Yes.

   15. SPSpeaker22:52

       Aatya.

   16. ZKZorawar Kalra22:53

       Yes, Aatya.

   17. SPSpeaker22:54

       Yeah. I think she's doing a great job with health food, right?

   18. ZKZorawar Kalra22:56

       I thought the food was great.

   19. SPSpeaker22:57

       Yeah.

   20. ZKZorawar Kalra22:58

       You guys ordered so much food. I knew I'd just had lunch, but everything looked so good, I still dug in. It was really good.

   21. SPSpeaker23:02

       But you're on a diet or something. You barely ate.

   22. ZKZorawar Kalra23:05

       I am trying. I'm trying my best.

   23. SPSpeaker23:07

       Mm.

   24. ZKZorawar Kalra23:08

       Okay? But my diets are... I have a yo-yo life with diets.

   25. SPSpeaker23:11

       Mm.

   26. ZKZorawar Kalra23:11

       You know, my diets are on and off, and on and off, and I've figured out that what really works long run for me is simple portion control. Nothing is more sustainable than just limiting the amount of food that you eat. And then perhaps not eat after 6:00, 6:30, 7:00. Hard to do in our line of business. Because I think food, the love for food is the most noblest of all loves. It's God's gift to mankind.

   27. SPSpeaker23:36

       Mm.

   28. ZKZorawar Kalra23:36

       It literally is. It's the only thing, think about it-

   29. SPSpeaker23:38

       Mm

   30. ZKZorawar Kalra23:38

       ... that you can do three times a day, every single day, and never get bored.
9. 24:05 – 36:58

   Father-Son Dynamics: Jiggs Kalra's Legacy

   1. ZKZorawar Kalra24:05

      unbelievably proud of my father. I think he really brought about a renaissance for Indian food, and growing up in Jiggs Kalra's house was literally all about great food exposure from a very young age. I remember I had caviar at the age of eight or nine. He made me eat something as-... as, as peculiar as anchovies, by hiding it in cream cheese when I was ten. Literally, the kind of stuff that he would do because it was his passion.

   2. NKNikhil Kamath24:31

      Mm.

   3. ZKZorawar Kalra24:31

      He lived for food.

   4. NKNikhil Kamath24:32

      Mm.

   5. ZKZorawar Kalra24:32

      In fact, the country's first syndicated column on food at the Illustrated Weekly with Krishnan Singh, was my dad's column.

   6. NKNikhil Kamath24:39

      Wow!

   7. ZKZorawar Kalra24:39

      He started off as a journalist-

   8. NKNikhil Kamath24:41

      Right.

   9. ZKZorawar Kalra24:41

      -became a foodie, became a food writer, and then he did what he did, put Indian food on the-

   10. NKNikhil Kamath24:45

       And where did he grow up?

   11. ZKZorawar Kalra24:46

       Delhi.

   12. NKNikhil Kamath24:47

       Mm-hmm.

   13. ZKZorawar Kalra24:47

       Grew up, uh, in Delhi. Uh-

   14. NKNikhil Kamath24:49

       Has your... Was your dad, like, a career, uh... When did he start cooking? Like, when did this become a profession for him? Journalism and then this?

   15. ZKZorawar Kalra24:56

       Yes. So, you know, he's written many books.

   16. NKNikhil Kamath24:59

       Mm-hmm.

   17. ZKZorawar Kalra24:59

       And some f- these, some of these books, especially Prashad, has become, like, a common stay at catering colleges and schools. It's, it's literally used as a tool to make people learn cooking. He was never a chef. He was a journalist who simply had a God-given palate.

   18. NKNikhil Kamath25:13

       Mm.

   19. ZKZorawar Kalra25:14

       And his palate was so sublime that he could work with the great chefs of India and improve recipes.

   20. NKNikhil Kamath25:19

       Mm.

   21. ZKZorawar Kalra25:20

       But more than that, he was a historian. He devoted his life to documenting, researching, and then, you know, recording Indian food.

   22. NKNikhil Kamath25:29

       Mm.

   23. ZKZorawar Kalra25:29

       Because unlike French or German, or, you know, Japanese, any, any of these cuisines are fairly well documented. There are standardized recipes. In India, we had this khansama culture, where these really good cooks and chefs want to hide recipes. So the recipes were never documented, and they were all over the place. You know, even some-

   24. NKNikhil Kamath25:45

       You have so much passion when you speak about your father. Has that relationship changed from when you were a kid, to when you were a teenager, to an adult, to now? What works?

   25. ZKZorawar Kalra25:57

       It... From a combination of fear and awe, to unbelievable respect somewhere in the middle, [lips smack] to copious amounts of love towards the end of his life.

   26. NKNikhil Kamath26:12

       How old is he now?

   27. ZKZorawar Kalra26:13

       Unfortunately, he passed on in 2019, after a 19-year battle, uh, with stroke. So he actually had a big stroke. By the way, a lot of the viewers will think stroke is related to the heart. It's got nothing to do with the heart. It's a brain infarct, and it left his left side paralyd- paralyzed. In fact, he was the most frequent flyer in India, and overnight, he became bedridden for 19 years.

   28. NKNikhil Kamath26:37

       Wow!

   29. ZKZorawar Kalra26:37

       And it was probably the worst week of my life. I know, I, I, I, I, I was 22 years old. I was thrust into the wide world with all this responsibility and absolute sense of fear and ambiguity. I didn't know what- what's gonna happen. My biggest fear was, is he gonna live? 'Cause I didn't know what a stroke was. Most of India didn't know what a str- what a stroke was. Many people today... And I've spent a lot of time, by the way, working on, you know, trying to spread the knowledge of what a stroke is, so that if it happens to your hou- in your, in your house, God forbid, you're able to take action.

   30. NKNikhil Kamath27:09

       This, by the way, is the biggest fear for me. Like-
10. 36:58 – 38:09

    Zorawar's Personal life

    1. NKNikhil Kamath36:58

       that men like yourself, good-looking, uh, restaurant owners-

    2. RARiyaaz Amlani37:03

       Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

    3. NKNikhil Kamath37:03

       ... and bar owners, are very popular with women, no?

    4. ZKZorawar Kalra37:08

       Where have I been living? [laughing]

    5. RARiyaaz Amlani37:11

       [laughing]

    6. ZKZorawar Kalra37:12

       [clears throat] She's not going to answer.

    7. NKNikhil Kamath37:14

       Pooja knows, but she won't say. [laughing]

    8. ZKZorawar Kalra37:15

       We're, we're, we're peers. We're her peers, so she's going to be careful.

    9. NKNikhil Kamath37:18

       Wait, are you married?

    10. ZKZorawar Kalra37:19

        Yes. Married, two kids.

    11. NKNikhil Kamath37:21

        How long have you been married?

    12. ZKZorawar Kalra37:22

        2000 and... I better not get this wrong.

    13. NKNikhil Kamath37:24

        [laughing]

    14. ZKZorawar Kalra37:24

        2006, 31st July. No, 30th July was the marriage, 31st was the reception. 30th July.

    15. RARiyaaz Amlani37:30

        Well done.

    16. ZKZorawar Kalra37:31

        Yeah. Man, phew! [laughing] That was... So the marriage now is stronger than it's ever been, and, uh, I don't ever talk about it, but you-- I don't know how you've been able to get this out of me.

    17. NKNikhil Kamath37:42

        [laughing]

    18. ZKZorawar Kalra37:43

        Boss, kudos to you. This mild, wonderful, soft nature in which you ask questions is making me open up.

    19. NKNikhil Kamath37:48

        It's dangerous.

    20. ZKZorawar Kalra37:49

        I would not-

    21. NKNikhil Kamath37:49

        It didn't work on her.

    22. ZKZorawar Kalra37:50

        I- [chuckles]

    23. NKNikhil Kamath37:53

        What about your siblings?

    24. ZKZorawar Kalra37:55

        I have one brother.

    25. NKNikhil Kamath37:55

        Mm.

    26. ZKZorawar Kalra37:56

        A good relationship. Uh, he lives in the US. He's now just started opening restaurants of his own.

    27. NKNikhil Kamath38:03

        Riyaaz, you had a black belt in karate.

    28. RARiyaaz Amlani38:08

        No way! I had a brown

11. 38:09 – 39:50

    Riyaaz’s Karate-filled Childhood

    1. RARiyaaz Amlani38:09

       belt. [laughing]

    2. NKNikhil Kamath38:10

       [laughing] It says black on Google.

    3. RARiyaaz Amlani38:13

       Yeah. Don't read that stuff.

    4. NKNikhil Kamath38:15

       What happened? Was it restaurants?

    5. RARiyaaz Amlani38:17

       Uh, no, I think somebody broke my nose.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath38:20

       [laughing]

    7. RARiyaaz Amlani38:22

       Yeah. A kid half my size broke my nose.

    8. NKNikhil Kamath38:25

       Yeah?

    9. RARiyaaz Amlani38:25

       Yeah, I think my nose and my ego both took a beating.

    10. ZKZorawar Kalra38:28

        Did you give up on it?

    11. RARiyaaz Amlani38:30

        No, I think it fell away. Uh, I used to, I used to play-

    12. NKNikhil Kamath38:33

        The nose? [laughing]

    13. ZKZorawar Kalra38:36

        [laughing]

    14. RARiyaaz Amlani38:37

        [laughing]

    15. NKNikhil Kamath38:37

        And you guys, you know, this is not like one-on-one conversation. This is all four of us talking to each other, so feel free to butt in.

    16. ZKZorawar Kalra38:43

        He's a good buddy of mine.

    17. NKNikhil Kamath38:44

        Yeah.

    18. ZKZorawar Kalra38:44

        Very good buddy.

    19. NKNikhil Kamath38:45

        Exactly.

    20. RARiyaaz Amlani38:45

        Cool man, yeah.

    21. NKNikhil Kamath38:47

        Tell us something about him that he would not like to tell us.

    22. RARiyaaz Amlani38:49

        By the way, I'm half Parsi, so-

    23. ZKZorawar Kalra38:51

        Very Parsi chin.

    24. RARiyaaz Amlani38:51

        So my nose is, um... [laughing]

    25. ZKZorawar Kalra38:53

        Ah, correct.

    26. NKNikhil Kamath38:54

        Sun shape. Sunny-

    27. RARiyaaz Amlani38:55

        Yeah, I know. That, that shape went away with that.

    28. ZKZorawar Kalra38:58

        [clears throat] Uh-

    29. NKNikhil Kamath38:58

        "Ek ek cheez bataiye jo ye khud nahi batayenge."

    30. ZKZorawar Kalra39:02

        He is a softie at heart, but he does not like to, uh... And I mean that in a positive, very positive manner.
12. 39:50 – 44:05

    Regulations & Restaurants: Bottleneck

    1. RARiyaaz Amlani39:50

       Why do I need a police permission to sell a sandwich? I mean, why, why do I need to get a character certificate from police station to say I'm worthy of selling a, a glass of beer or, or to be able to sell a sand- What, what business does police have in my affairs, right? Um, I could have a big mega store and see ten times the volume of the amount of people coming to a restaurant. Why does restaurants need to have police license, for example? Why do we-

    2. NKNikhil Kamath40:21

       Police license, is it?

    3. RARiyaaz Amlani40:21

       Yeah, police license. We need a police NOC for everything that we do. So if you want a food license, we have to go get a police clearance-

    4. ZKZorawar Kalra40:28

       First

    5. RARiyaaz Amlani40:29

       ... first, then they will give it to you. You want a fire NOC, you have to go to the police, then they'll give it to you. You want an excise license, you need a police NOC, then they'll give it to you.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath40:36

       I'm guessing this is like a layer which adds a cost as well.

    7. ZKZorawar Kalra40:40

       Cost and unnecessary, right?

    8. NKNikhil Kamath40:42

       Yeah.

    9. ZKZorawar Kalra40:42

       Like, what is the logic? You know, it's easier to get a gun at home-

    10. NKNikhil Kamath40:45

        Mm

    11. ZKZorawar Kalra40:46

        ... you'd require fewer character certificates, and fewer licenses, and fewer checks to get a gun at home than to get a, get a liquor license or to sell a sandwich. And, um, I think it's just absolutely unnecessary, and it's-- So by the way, just to put things in perspective, the restaurant industry, overall, is the second highest employer of human capital in India after agriculture. Ten million people directly employed. It's only going to grow. Compounded annually, we're growing around twenty-one percent-

    12. NKNikhil Kamath41:17

        Mm

    13. ZKZorawar Kalra41:17

        ... which means every three and a half, four years, you're doubling in size.

    14. NKNikhil Kamath41:19

        Mm.

    15. ZKZorawar Kalra41:19

        So number of people employed will double in size. So it's a very important industry.

    16. NKNikhil Kamath41:23

        Mm.

    17. ZKZorawar Kalra41:24

        What is the purpose of having-- of, of dissuading people from entering the field that is doing a noble cause?

    18. NKNikhil Kamath41:30

        Mm.

    19. ZKZorawar Kalra41:30

        Substance. You're giving food, you're giving... It's a necessity. It-

    20. RARiyaaz Amlani41:33

        Technically, you just need three licenses, right? You need, you need tax, you need health, to make sure that you are going to make sure that, uh, you know, people are... And you need safety, right? You need to make sure that it's fire compliant. You need to make sure that it's designed in a manner which is not hazardous to the environment, to the customers. What other licenses would you need? And why do you even need a license, for example? But, yeah, we're still, we're still grappling with thirty-six. I think after many years of struggle, I think, uh, uh, we've been able to get it from thirty-six to thirty-two. And-

    21. ZKZorawar Kalra42:08

        Wow!

    22. RARiyaaz Amlani42:09

        Yeah. [chuckles]

    23. ZKZorawar Kalra42:09

        Kudos. Kudos.

    24. NKNikhil Kamath42:10

        Yay.

    25. RARiyaaz Amlani42:11

        [laughing]

    26. NKNikhil Kamath42:11

        So police, number one, then? Police license, after that.

    27. RARiyaaz Amlani42:14

        Uh, so again, why do you need police license? Why is it that, um, we are regulated with our timings, right? I mean, the fact that, uh, why, why is it... Again, it's, again, it's a issue. Like, you can only serve from this time to this time, and then you cannot serve after that or before that, where- whereas-

    28. ZKZorawar Kalra42:34

        Is there a rule before that as well?

    29. RARiyaaz Amlani42:35

        Yeah. Yeah.

    30. ZKZorawar Kalra42:36

        Yeah?
13. 44:05 – 48:04

    Riyaaz's Personal Life and Parsi History

    1. RARiyaaz Amlani44:05

       in Bombay. [laughing]

    2. NKNikhil Kamath44:07

       [laughing]

    3. NKNikhil Kamath44:08

       What is, what is that? Like-

    4. RARiyaaz Amlani44:10

       I can't- [laughing]

    5. NKNikhil Kamath44:10

       ... I've heard so much about Parsis and inbreeding and-

    6. RARiyaaz Amlani44:14

       [laughing] I know

    7. NKNikhil Kamath44:14

       ... how the community has died. Like, why is that?

    8. RARiyaaz Amlani44:18

       Why has the community died?

    9. NKNikhil Kamath44:19

       Yeah.

    10. RARiyaaz Amlani44:20

        Be- they, they just don't want to get married. I think they've wisened up. No. [chuckles] No, I think, uh-

    11. NKNikhil Kamath44:26

        Are you married, Riyaaz?

    12. RARiyaaz Amlani44:26

        Sorry?

    13. NKNikhil Kamath44:26

        You're married?

    14. RARiyaaz Amlani44:27

        I'm married, two kids.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath44:28

        How long have you been married?

    16. RARiyaaz Amlani44:30

        10 years.

    17. NKNikhil Kamath44:31

        Parsi girl?

    18. RARiyaaz Amlani44:32

        No, no, no. Uh-

    19. NKNikhil Kamath44:33

        So you're part of the problem. [laughing]

    20. RARiyaaz Amlani44:36

        [laughing] I am part of the problem. But, uh, we got excommunicated from... We have, um, uh, it is actually nothing to do with religion-

    21. NKNikhil Kamath44:45

        Mm

    22. RARiyaaz Amlani44:45

        ... but it's more cultural. So I think in the eighth century, when the first boatload of Parsis came in, and they landed near Udvara in Gujarat, uh, they made a promise to the king then that they will never intermingle, because the king said, "Hey, we don't want you, you know, intermingling with..." And there's a very famous story about how they brought a glass full of milk, and he said, "Do you see any more space in this?" And, uh, the Parsi asked for some sugar, and he put that in and said, "See, we could- there's still space for sweet people in your, uh, country."

    23. NKNikhil Kamath45:21

        Nice story.

    24. RARiyaaz Amlani45:21

        And they made-

    25. NKNikhil Kamath45:22

        I've not heard this

    26. RARiyaaz Amlani45:22

        ... and they made, and yeah, so that is the legend. Always go with the legend.

    27. NKNikhil Kamath45:25

        What year was this?

    28. RARiyaaz Amlani45:27

        In the eighth century, 700-something. Yeah, that was the first-

    29. NKNikhil Kamath45:30

        1200 years ago?

    30. RARiyaaz Amlani45:31

        Yeah, the- that's when the Parsis came in, the Zoroastrians.
14. 48:04 – 49:35

    Riyaaz & Music: DJ Days

    1. RARiyaaz Amlani48:04

       in a, in a place called Byculla in Bombay-

    2. NKNikhil Kamath48:06

       Mm

    3. RARiyaaz Amlani48:07

       ... uh, where we were surrounded by, um, a large part was a Catholic community, and some of it was because of my, uh, you know, I, like, my mother's side. I, I, actually, I were, more, grew up more as a Parsi than, than as a-

    4. NKNikhil Kamath48:22

       Are you religious, Riyaaz?

    5. RARiyaaz Amlani48:23

       Not at all.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath48:23

       Right. Are you, Zorawar?

    7. ZKZorawar Kalra48:25

       Yes, I am.

    8. NKNikhil Kamath48:26

       Puja?

    9. NKNikhil Kamath48:27

       Spiritual.

    10. NKNikhil Kamath48:28

        Okay.

    11. RARiyaaz Amlani48:29

        Zero.

    12. NKNikhil Kamath48:29

        Mm.

    13. RARiyaaz Amlani48:30

        Mm.

    14. NKNikhil Kamath48:31

        Okay, so you were a DJ, and this was like a part-time gig, college, making a bit?

    15. RARiyaaz Amlani48:33

        Yeah, actually, yeah, I enjoyed it. You know, I used to like, uh, show up with cassettes, like a-

    16. NKNikhil Kamath48:37

        Mm

    17. RARiyaaz Amlani48:38

        ... a bag full of cassettes, all rewound and kept to the song that you want-

    18. NKNikhil Kamath48:43

        Mm.

    19. RARiyaaz Amlani48:43

        ... because, you know, you, there was no CDs at that point of time. It was all... And you had to have mixtapes and-... you go with one tape recorder and another tape recorder, and you have to press play. [laughing]

    20. NKNikhil Kamath48:55

        Did you use the LPs? Did you use-

    21. RARiyaaz Amlani48:55

        And then mix it. No, no.

    22. NKNikhil Kamath48:57

        Yeah.

    23. RARiyaaz Amlani48:57

        I couldn't afford LPs. No, no. Cassettes was, I could, like, pirate them and play whatever I wanted. We used to play Cliff Richards and, um-

    24. NKNikhil Kamath49:05

        Oh

    25. RARiyaaz Amlani49:05

        ... uh, Shakin' Stevens-

    26. NKNikhil Kamath49:07

        Mm

    27. RARiyaaz Amlani49:07

        ... and Chubby Checker, and it, it was-

    28. NKNikhil Kamath49:11

        Riyaaz seems like the original cool guy, right?

    29. ZKZorawar Kalra49:13

        Hmm.

    30. NKNikhil Kamath49:13

        Like, he must have been the-
15. 49:35 – 52:13

    Story of Berry’s & Riyaaz's Upbringing

    1. RARiyaaz Amlani49:35

       from. Uh-

    2. ZKZorawar Kalra49:35

       Parsi food?

    3. RARiyaaz Amlani49:37

       No. Uh, in my- Berry's was a restaurant started by a gentleman called Mr. Beri, and that's how it gets its name. It's actually Beri's.

    4. ZKZorawar Kalra49:46

       Okay.

    5. RARiyaaz Amlani49:47

       But, uh, it became Berry's. Beri or Bedi.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath49:51

       B-E-R-I.

    7. RARiyaaz Amlani49:51

       Yeah, Beri. Yeah, it's a-

    8. NKNikhil Kamath49:54

       So you grew up in Bombay, went to school?

    9. RARiyaaz Amlani49:56

       I went to school. Uh, wait, we're talking about the restaurant now, or-

    10. NKNikhil Kamath49:59

        No, no, childhood.

    11. ZKZorawar Kalra50:00

        Ah, I'm loving this.

    12. RARiyaaz Amlani50:00

        Okay, we're going back. [laughing]

    13. NKNikhil Kamath50:02

        Childhood. This is like a movie, right?

    14. ZKZorawar Kalra50:03

        I'm loving this. [laughing]

    15. NKNikhil Kamath50:04

        It gives you so much insight into the person so quickly.

    16. ZKZorawar Kalra50:06

        It does.

    17. RARiyaaz Amlani50:07

        Um, yeah, I think, um, we came, um... There was a little bit of, you know, financial strain. I was very keen on earning my own money, uh, at a very early age. So my father's side comes from a community which are called, uh, the Khojas, or the Aga Khanis, or the-

    18. NKNikhil Kamath50:27

        Of course

    19. RARiyaaz Amlani50:27

        ... Ismailis, or the Prince Aga Khan, the followers of that. So it's a certain sect amongst the sect. Um, we, as Khojas, we have maintained a lot of our previous practices, right? And, and I think that that's beautiful. So, um, we had- my father, he, Sai, has a Sai Baba mandir. Again, you know, this is not something that, uh, most Muslims do. Um, we used to go to Shirdi pretty often. Every Holi, on Holika, we used to have a fire, um, that we used to burn. Uh, during Diwali, we used to do Chopda Pooja, which is, um, you know, you come down and you kind of write, uh, in a very Khoja way. By the way, that's very interesting, the, the- what you wrote on the book was all about you. We spoke about Aga Khan, and we spoke about Kubera Ji no Bhandar, and we spoke about Lakshmi. And so it was this kind of a hybrid kind of a religion, which, which I guess, um, in many ways-

    20. NKNikhil Kamath51:26

        Which is beautiful

    21. RARiyaaz Amlani51:26

        ... reflects what India is all about.

    22. NKNikhil Kamath51:28

        Pragmatic.

    23. RARiyaaz Amlani51:28

        Right? I mean, uh, it's, it's- to, to have a, a knowledge and to have an appreciation for, uh, such a diverse, uh, a- and spiritually diverse nation that we are, I think, um, yeah, I'm quite blessed to have that, uh-

    24. ZKZorawar Kalra51:44

        Mm

    25. RARiyaaz Amlani51:45

        ... upbringing.

    26. NKNikhil Kamath51:46

        A lot of your restaurants, I've been to. I've been to Mocha. There's a Smoke House right down the road-

    27. RARiyaaz Amlani51:51

        Yeah

    28. NKNikhil Kamath51:51

        ... which makes, uh, a great grilled chicken, and, uh, they have some fish. What is it called?

    29. RARiyaaz Amlani51:59

        That memorable, huh?

    30. NKNikhil Kamath52:01

        It's good. [laughing] Good. Social is good. Slinkin' Bardot is good. Boss Burger, I haven't tried. Prithvi Cafe, tell us a bit about that.
16. 52:13 – 56:32

    Riyaaz Reveals Prithvi Cafe’s History

    1. RARiyaaz Amlani52:13

       Um, it's part of, uh, Prithvi Theatre.

    2. NKNikhil Kamath52:16

       Mm.

    3. RARiyaaz Amlani52:17

       And, um, it was set up, uh, by Shashi Kapoor in, uh-

    4. NKNikhil Kamath52:22

       The actor.

    5. RARiyaaz Amlani52:23

       The actor-

    6. NKNikhil Kamath52:24

       Mm-hmm

    7. RARiyaaz Amlani52:24

       ... in memory of his, uh, father, Prithviraj Kapoor. Uh, that's why it's called Prithvi Theatre. Uh, and now run by his children, Kunal Kapoor and, uh, Sanjana Kapoor, um, who literally are keeping, you know, the flag flying for the, the j- the, the drama and the, you know, the plays and that kind of cultural fabric. I think Prithvi is a very important part of, uh, cultural fabric of Mumbai, at least.

    8. NKNikhil Kamath52:55

       Mm.

    9. RARiyaaz Amlani52:56

       And, um, I think Prithvi Cafe was first started by ad man, Prahlad Kakkar.

    10. NKNikhil Kamath53:01

        Mm.

    11. ZKZorawar Kalra53:02

        Yeah.

    12. RARiyaaz Amlani53:03

        And, um, and made it very famous. And it was this kind of-

    13. NKNikhil Kamath53:04

        He made a very famous restaurant.

    14. RARiyaaz Amlani53:07

        Yeah.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath53:07

        The name is really cool.

    16. ZKZorawar Kalra53:08

        Yeah.

    17. RARiyaaz Amlani53:08

        Papa Pancho. [laughing] He had one more before that. I think he was running the tea house-

    18. NKNikhil Kamath53:12

        Although it's in the news for all the wrong reasons recently.

    19. ZKZorawar Kalra53:14

        Mm.

    20. RARiyaaz Amlani53:14

        Yeah, and that-

    21. ZKZorawar Kalra53:15

        It shut down because of a rat or something.

    22. NKNikhil Kamath53:17

        Mm.

    23. RARiyaaz Amlani53:17

        No, it got shut down because he was being hustled, but come to that later. Um, yeah, so it, it was this place where, uh, uh, Naseeruddin Shah, you can see him on, uh, on the odd day. Om Puri, uh, Makarand Deshpande sitting with a pack of Foursquare, reading scripts, screaming and shouting, emoting, you know? And, uh, every now and then, a flautist would come in with a flute and just start playing in a corner. And, uh-

    24. NKNikhil Kamath53:50

        Wow

    25. RARiyaaz Amlani53:50

        ... a tabla player would come and just, you know, do their own little rehearsal.

    26. NKNikhil Kamath53:53

        What kind of theater is it? Is it like the typical-

    27. RARiyaaz Amlani53:55

        It's a, it's a, it's a s- it's a small, little heartfelt little space. I don't think it seats more than 300 people.

    28. NKNikhil Kamath54:01

        Right.

    29. RARiyaaz Amlani54:01

        Um-

    30. ZKZorawar Kalra54:02

        Best cold coffee.
17. 56:32 – 1:01:12

    Innovative Monetisation: Restaurant Hacks

    1. NKNikhil Kamath56:32

       areas. So if you can tomorrow start monetizing walls by displaying brands-

    2. ZKZorawar Kalra56:37

       Art

    3. NKNikhil Kamath56:37

       ... or selling stuff, would you do it?

    4. ZKZorawar Kalra56:38

       Putting art.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath56:39

       Would you do it?

    6. ZKZorawar Kalra56:40

       Of, of course. Would love to do that.

    7. NKNikhil Kamath56:42

       Why aren't you doing it already?

    8. ZKZorawar Kalra56:43

       We are doing in some cases. For example, in some of our bars-

    9. NKNikhil Kamath56:48

       Mm

    10. ZKZorawar Kalra56:48

        ... some key locations for logos-

    11. NKNikhil Kamath56:51

        Mm

    12. ZKZorawar Kalra56:51

        ... are kept for some beverage companies. So a Budweiser, we have a link with Budweiser. We put their logos up, they pay us money for it. I don't put cigarettes, but there... ITC,

    13. NKNikhil Kamath57:01

        Mm

    14. ZKZorawar Kalra57:01

        a cigarette company-

    15. NKNikhil Kamath57:02

        Mm

    16. ZKZorawar Kalra57:02

        ... would take a space on your bar. You can't sell it, as far as I know, but you can put it over there, and they'll pay you, like, a decent amount of money. So you can. And then, of course, there are some restaurants where you can actually buy the crockery and the cutlery as well.

    17. NKNikhil Kamath57:16

        Mm.

    18. ZKZorawar Kalra57:16

        And art, art is lying on the walls.

    19. NKNikhil Kamath57:18

        Yeah.

    20. ZKZorawar Kalra57:18

        London Arts Club does that.

    21. NKNikhil Kamath57:19

        I've seen that in some places.

    22. ZKZorawar Kalra57:20

        London Arts Club does that.

    23. NKNikhil Kamath57:22

        You know the food you guys are eating, which was your favorite dish? Each one, then I'll tell you why.

    24. ZKZorawar Kalra57:26

        Hmm.

    25. RARiyaaz Amlani57:26

        I like the keema.

    26. ZKZorawar Kalra57:27

        Yeah. Same. Keema for me.

    27. NKNikhil Kamath57:30

        Where's the keema from?

    28. ZKZorawar Kalra57:32

        SOCIAL. SOCIAL.

    29. RARiyaaz Amlani57:33

        Oh!

    30. ZKZorawar Kalra57:34

        Very good.
18. 1:01:12 – 1:02:10

    Role of Restaurants: The Bigger Picture

    1. RARiyaaz Amlani1:01:12

       That's too much responsibility [laughing]

    2. NKNikhil Kamath1:01:14

       [laughing]

    3. ZKZorawar Kalra1:01:14

       And it is, it is the final bastion of hope, because-

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:01:16

       Mm

    5. ZKZorawar Kalra1:01:17

       ... I really think the digital world is overcoming everything else. I think, so I think the restaurants play a key role in binding families. It's a huge responsibility, as Riyaaz said. But I think it is also, we're in the business of giving happiness. It's a huge responsibility because people are coming to you to celebrate life's greatest moments. To, you know, a centenary, you know, a marriage proposal.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath1:01:42

       Mm.

    7. ZKZorawar Kalra1:01:43

       You know, your-

    8. RARiyaaz Amlani1:01:44

       A break-up.

    9. ZKZorawar Kalra1:01:44

       Date. Yeah, break-up.

    10. RARiyaaz Amlani1:01:46

        Yeah.

    11. ZKZorawar Kalra1:01:46

        A date night with your first love. So I think... I really think, and I really hope, and I don't have a dystopian view of the f- of the future of restaurants. I have a very positive view. Uh, and once we get into the math of what India can offer-

    12. NKNikhil Kamath1:01:58

        Mm

    13. ZKZorawar Kalra1:01:58

        ... you'll realize that s- we have not even scratched the surface yet-

    14. RARiyaaz Amlani1:02:01

        Mm

    15. ZKZorawar Kalra1:02:01

        ... for restauranting or delivery in India yet.

    16. NKNikhil Kamath1:02:03

        So, you know, I have a thesis for businesses which are a place of passion, like restaurant

19. 1:02:10 – 1:07:05

    Why Most Restaurants Fail

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:02:10

       or Bollywood or, like, things that you consider a passion can, which can also be a profession. The odds of success, while we are trying to make this entire show for somebody who wants to start a restaurant, to help them have all the details at hand and help them increase the odds of success. Whenever you are attempting a vocation of passion, more often than not, the odds are stacked against you because there are many other people who are attempting it, not with a monetary gain in mind. Because it is cool to have a restaurant. Uh, a lot of people want to retire to a bar on the beach. I know so many of my friends who knew nothing about restaurants but attempted it because it was some childhood passion or dream of theirs. So this is something to really bear in mind. So the first thing I think we should really arrive at is, across the board, odds of a restaurant being successful, what do you think is an accurate number? 10%, 20%?

    2. RARiyaaz Amlani1:03:12

       Zorawar knows this by heart, he'll tell you.

    3. ZKZorawar Kalra1:03:13

       I... So it is the highest morbidity rate business in the world.

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:03:18

       Mm.

    5. ZKZorawar Kalra1:03:19

       90%, around that, of restaurants fail within the first year, and around 96% within 18 months. And the biggest reason, you won't believe, is not necessarily lack of passion or getting into it for glamour reason- glamorous reasons. It's under-capitalization. People have money to build a restaurant, but they don't plan for the gestation, right? And the gestation is what can kill you. It can demotivate you, it can make the quality c- become bad, because you don't have money to pay the bills, so you start compromising, and unfortunately, that's just the nature. I think this is a passion play, restaurants in general. It's not a nine-to-five, it's a lifestyle choice. You have to get into it for the right reasons. It cannot be an extension of your drawing room. If that's what you're trying to do, invest half the amount of money and make your drawing room better.

    6. RARiyaaz Amlani1:04:10

       Uh, you know, I think, uh, yeah, a lot of people get in because... And I use this, we were talking about ball bearings earlier, and a lot of the people who do get into the restaurant business, like, made billions selling ball bearings, but nobody knows who you are, you know? You open up a restaurant-

    7. ZKZorawar Kalra1:04:28

       Glamour.

    8. RARiyaaz Amlani1:04:29

       No, it's not j- it's not just glamour. So for some, it's glamour; for some, it's calling card; for some, it is a networking opportunity, right? For some, it is a childhood cherished dream. For, for some, it is a leg up in society, and for some, it is genuine passion, right? It's genuine. Uh, there are various reasons why people do get into the restaurant business.

    9. ZKZorawar Kalra1:04:49

       Mera beta America padh raha hai, woh wapas nahi aana chahta. Beta, aap woh, woh restaurant karega toh hi wapas aayega. Sabse bada reason bhul gaye aap, shaadi karani hai bacche ki.

    10. RARiyaaz Amlani1:04:57

        Bacche ki shaadi karani hai, settle karna hai-

    11. ZKZorawar Kalra1:04:59

        North India

    12. RARiyaaz Amlani1:04:59

        ... uh, uh, b-

    13. NKNikhil Kamath1:05:00

        So if the boy is doing nothing-

    14. RARiyaaz Amlani1:05:02

        Baap ko kaam pe lagana hai. Bete ko kaam pe lagana hai.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath1:05:05

        But what we are agreeing on broadly is the odds of success for a restaurant, two-year runway, is something like three, four percent.

    16. ZKZorawar Kalra1:05:14

        Two years, 4%, you could say. There are obviously, you know, outliers-

    17. NKNikhil Kamath1:05:20

        Mm

    18. ZKZorawar Kalra1:05:20

        ... but in general, you would say under 10% would be the number where you would not have success.

    19. NKNikhil Kamath1:05:26

        So unless you bring-

    20. ZKZorawar Kalra1:05:26

        Sorry, you would have success on the other side

    21. NKNikhil Kamath1:05:27

        ... a specific USP that you can bring to the table, 90% you'll fail. Don't attempt it.

    22. ZKZorawar Kalra1:05:36

        I think there's a secret sauce, and that secret sauce is, um, the last thing that Riyaaz mentioned, which is passion. If you're passionate about it, you'll figure it out. And if-

    23. NKNikhil Kamath1:05:47

        But wouldn't all 100 attempting it think they are passionate in their own way?

    24. ZKZorawar Kalra1:05:49

        I, I don't think that high a percentage get into it with passion.

    25. RARiyaaz Amlani1:05:53

        No.

    26. ZKZorawar Kalra1:05:54

        I think few get into it with passion.

    27. RARiyaaz Amlani1:05:56

        Not everybody gets in with passion.

    28. ZKZorawar Kalra1:05:57

        If you get into... Your chance, again, I'm not saying that you're going to 100% succeed. Your chances of failure reduce drastically.

    29. NKNikhil Kamath1:06:02

        Define passion from this lens.

    30. ZKZorawar Kalra1:06:05

        It's the only thing you can see yourself doing. It's something that you would do for free, and then figure out a way to make money from it. I think that's passion.
20. 1:07:05 – 1:08:32

    India's Increasing Dine-Out Trend

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:07:05

       one time a week. They spend three dollars. People in the US eat out on average four to five times a week. In China, it's twice a week. But in China and US, they spend a significantly higher amount of money. In China, the average meal is ten dollars, in US, it's twenty dollars. India is three dollars. Why do you think that is? Is it cultural? Why do people go out as little? Is it because you have a-- you can have a chef at home, we live in joint families, there is always food at home?

    2. RARiyaaz Amlani1:07:35

       Stigma of wasting food.

    3. ZKZorawar Kalra1:07:36

       Mm.

    4. RARiyaaz Amlani1:07:37

       ... "..." I think that, look, I think that we are eating out, and we are growing very, very quickly. Uh, we were eating out four times a month in, uh, I think in two thousand and fif- fourteen, when we did our first reports, uh, and I think the two thousand and, uh, I think nineteen report was the previous, just before the, the-

    5. ZKZorawar Kalra1:08:02

       No, uh, even later though.

    6. RARiyaaz Amlani1:08:04

       We had come up to eight times a month, and in urban area-

    7. ZKZorawar Kalra1:08:07

       Okay

    8. RARiyaaz Amlani1:08:07

       ... we were up to about sixteen times a month. But to give you an example, Singapore eats out fifty-two times a, a month.

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:08:14

       Wow!

    10. ZKZorawar Kalra1:08:14

        Yeah.

    11. RARiyaaz Amlani1:08:14

        Right? So-

    12. NKNikhil Kamath1:08:14

        I read that, and I saw that the valuations-

    13. ZKZorawar Kalra1:08:16

        Twice a day

    14. NKNikhil Kamath1:08:17

        ... of restaurant chains in Singapore is ridiculous.

    15. ZKZorawar Kalra1:08:19

        Yeah.

    16. NKNikhil Kamath1:08:19

        They're billion-dollar restaurant companies.

    17. RARiyaaz Amlani1:08:21

        But they're not... They're still not valued the same value that rest- companies in India are valued.

    18. ZKZorawar Kalra1:08:25

        Yeah.

    19. NKNikhil Kamath1:08:25

        If you increase the price of a dish in Smoke House Deli from four hundred rupees to six hundred rupees,

21. 1:08:32 – 1:10:30

    Premiumisation & Its Success

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:08:32

       you rebrand your menu that way-

    2. RARiyaaz Amlani1:08:34

       Mm.

    3. NKNikhil Kamath1:08:35

       -will people perceive you to be at a higher price point, hence higher quality, and you get more footfalls?

    4. RARiyaaz Amlani1:08:40

       No, let me, let me look at... Look, India is a very value-conscious market.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath1:08:44

       Mm.

    6. RARiyaaz Amlani1:08:44

       It's not a price-sensitive market, it's a value-sensitive market.

    7. NKNikhil Kamath1:08:47

       Why is premiumization working?

    8. RARiyaaz Amlani1:08:48

       So premiumization, I'll tell you what premium is. So we, we saw in Delhi, took some, you know, progressive steps. They brought the, you know, the excise duty down on liquor, right? What we saw was that people, while... So the prices of the liquor went down in bars. We reduced the prices, followed suit, passed on the benefit to the customers. The customers didn't drink more of their liquor. They upgraded to the next one. You understand? So where they were drinking a red label-

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:09:19

       Mm.

    10. RARiyaaz Amlani1:09:20

        -they didn't say: Okay, now, you know, I was... I would typically have two glass, two, uh, red labels, now I will have three.

    11. NKNikhil Kamath1:09:26

        Mm.

    12. RARiyaaz Amlani1:09:27

        They said, "I will have black label, because now it-

    13. NKNikhil Kamath1:09:31

        Mm

    14. RARiyaaz Amlani1:09:31

        ... that's the same amount of money that I'm spending," right? So that's where I see premiumization happening, that people are wanting to actually get into a better quality product or what they perceive to be a better quality product.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath1:09:41

        Mm.

    16. RARiyaaz Amlani1:09:42

        We're not getting into the merits-

    17. NKNikhil Kamath1:09:43

        Mm

    18. RARiyaaz Amlani1:09:44

        ... of, uh, the product. But yes, that is where premiumization is happening, that people want to be consuming better.

    19. NKNikhil Kamath1:09:50

        Mm.

    20. RARiyaaz Amlani1:09:50

        They want to be consuming, uh... They want to go to brands. They want to go to brands that they trust, and they go to brands where they feel that it'll enhance their image, prestige, you know, or their, their quality of life-

    21. NKNikhil Kamath1:10:02

        So what-

    22. RARiyaaz Amlani1:10:02

        Their self-worth.

    23. NKNikhil Kamath1:10:02

        So what segment is... If Riyaaz was a young man-

    24. RARiyaaz Amlani1:10:05

        Mm

    25. NKNikhil Kamath1:10:05

        ... twenty years old, starting-

    26. RARiyaaz Amlani1:10:06

        What do you mean if? [laughing]

    27. ZKZorawar Kalra1:10:08

        [laughing]

    28. NKNikhil Kamath1:10:08

        Younger man. If you were starting off at twenty-

    29. RARiyaaz Amlani1:10:12

        Mm

    30. NKNikhil Kamath1:10:12

        ... what would you start? One, one option, you have one crore rupee budget.
22. 1:10:30 – 1:11:30

    SOCIAL's Product-Market Fit

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:10:30

       One. Highest odds of success, not passion.

    2. RARiyaaz Amlani1:10:35

       Uh, social. I would do that, because for me, I feel that, uh, in this country, it's the best product-market fit that we, that we are seeing. We are an extremely young, uh, audience.

    3. NKNikhil Kamath1:10:49

       Mm.

    4. RARiyaaz Amlani1:10:50

       We are an audience which believes in the gig economy, uh, in the freelance economy. People are looking for places to work from.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath1:10:57

       Mm.

    6. RARiyaaz Amlani1:10:58

       Uh, they are, you know, they're being social while they work, and they're, uh, working while they're being social. Uh, the lines are blurring. Um, we are looking for spaces to hang out where we can, you know, do some work, uh, meet people. We're looking for, for want of a better word, we're looking for accessible WeWorks, and we're looking for accessible soar houses. Um, and I think that that's the role that social really ends up playing.

    7. NKNikhil Kamath1:11:23

       And you could set up one in one crore?

    8. RARiyaaz Amlani1:11:26

       Uh, no, I, I, I could set... I could put equity, and,

23. 1:11:30 – 1:13:10

    Ease of Credit & Cloud Kitchens

    1. RARiyaaz Amlani1:11:30

       uh, the rest I would get in credit, mm.

    2. NKNikhil Kamath1:11:32

       Is it easy to get credit when you're starting a restaurant?

    3. ZKZorawar Kalra1:11:35

       Working capital-

    4. RARiyaaz Amlani1:11:35

       I don't think so.

    5. ZKZorawar Kalra1:11:36

       Um, it's like I said, it's such a high failure rate business that, um, to go to a bank and expect them to give you... You have a better chance at jumping off an aircraft and surviving-

    6. NKNikhil Kamath1:11:49

       Mm

    7. ZKZorawar Kalra1:11:50

       ... than being a first-time restaurateur-

    8. NKNikhil Kamath1:11:51

       Yeah. [chuckles]

    9. ZKZorawar Kalra1:11:52

       -and going to a bank and asking for money to open-

    10. NKNikhil Kamath1:11:54

        It's not that moment

    11. ZKZorawar Kalra1:11:54

        ... a new restaurant. [chuckles]

    12. RARiyaaz Amlani1:11:55

        It's not that-

    13. NKNikhil Kamath1:11:56

        So you partner with somebody who has experience-

    14. RARiyaaz Amlani1:11:58

        You're always first time, that's what it is, right?

    15. NKNikhil Kamath1:11:59

        And then you partner with somebody who has relevant experience, and then-

    16. ZKZorawar Kalra1:12:02

        Yeah

    17. NKNikhil Kamath1:12:02

        ... you're able to raise?

    18. ZKZorawar Kalra1:12:03

        I think, like I said, I think initially, it's always better to be a little careful and frugal.

    19. NKNikhil Kamath1:12:09

        Mm.

    20. ZKZorawar Kalra1:12:10

        Um, don't go ahead and try and open a five thousand square foot, two hundred seater restaurant. Maybe start out today with a cloud kitchen or a small café.

    21. RARiyaaz Amlani1:12:18

        Why are you wasting your time with a cloud kitchen?

    22. ZKZorawar Kalra1:12:20

        You don't have to. You don't have to-

    23. RARiyaaz Amlani1:12:21

        Nobody's gonna make money-

    24. ZKZorawar Kalra1:12:22

        I love cloud kitchens.

    25. RARiyaaz Amlani1:12:23

        Yeah, because you're using your existing infrastructure.

    26. ZKZorawar Kalra1:12:25

        No, I'm not.

    27. RARiyaaz Amlani1:12:25

        Hey, hey.

    28. ZKZorawar Kalra1:12:26

        Actually, I have not-

    29. RARiyaaz Amlani1:12:27

        Nobody's making money in cloud kitchen business.

    30. ZKZorawar Kalra1:12:28

        Well, actually, I beg to differ on that, but we actually-
24. 1:13:10 – 1:16:20

    Upsurge in Western Cuisine: Economics

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:13:10

       and a bunch of different companies. Selling a foreign product in India, like a burger, is working?

    2. ZKZorawar Kalra1:13:17

       ... I think there's a-

    3. NKNikhil Kamath1:13:19

       Is it growing faster than a biryani, for example?

    4. ZKZorawar Kalra1:13:21

       No, so it's never gonna... Consumption patterns are never gonna be there, but you have to understand that the competition and the number of players in that category are far more in biryani as opposed to burger. So if you were to open a biryani brand, say, in Southern India, Bangalore, you have great local players that are these institutions.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath1:13:39

       And it transitions well to tier two, tier three?

    6. ZKZorawar Kalra1:13:41

       It transitions well. You might have to tweak the pricing. Don't think you can sell a 800 rupee burger in, uh, you know-

    7. NKNikhil Kamath1:13:47

       Are there 800 rupee burgers in Louis Burger?

    8. ZKZorawar Kalra1:13:50

       There's one. There's one. It, it's 3%, 4% of our sales, so it doesn't sell much, but it's there because-

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:13:55

       What is the cost of good typically on a burger, like cost of producing the burger?

    10. ZKZorawar Kalra1:13:59

        So we're running at around about 30 to 31%, plus packaging costs.

    11. NKNikhil Kamath1:14:03

        I would say, is that fair for all kind of food, you should run at about 30%?

    12. ZKZorawar Kalra1:14:07

        The, the rule of thumb says 30%, but you can be lower. Chinese food, I've seen, you can come up with slightly lower. Indian food, simply because the quantity of chicken and the muscle protein that you have to use, typically higher in, in price. And then, of course, Italian food would be higher as well because the cheeses you have to import, perhaps. Uh, but you're getting great alternatives. Every alternative is available in India.

    13. NKNikhil Kamath1:14:29

        So Louis Burger, Boss Burger, competition?

    14. RARiyaaz Amlani1:14:31

        In a sense, yes.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath1:14:32

        Same markets?

    16. ZKZorawar Kalra1:14:33

        Yeah.

    17. RARiyaaz Amlani1:14:34

        Similar, similar markets.

    18. NKNikhil Kamath1:14:35

        Same price point?

    19. RARiyaaz Amlani1:14:36

        No.

    20. ZKZorawar Kalra1:14:36

        I think Louis is higher.

    21. RARiyaaz Amlani1:14:37

        Louis is higher.

    22. SPSpeaker1:14:38

        Would Good Flippin' also be a part of this?

    23. ZKZorawar Kalra1:14:40

        Yeah, Good Flippin' and s- uh, uh... And Louis would be exact-

    24. RARiyaaz Amlani1:14:43

        Good Flippin', I think-

    25. ZKZorawar Kalra1:14:43

        Competition.

    26. RARiyaaz Amlani1:14:43

        No, I think Good Flippin' it would be more, uh, on the s- Boss Burger-

    27. SPSpeaker1:14:47

        Mm.

    28. ZKZorawar Kalra1:14:48

        Is it?

    29. RARiyaaz Amlani1:14:48

        ... price point, slightly lower-

    30. ZKZorawar Kalra1:14:49

        No, I think it's higher
25. 1:16:20 – 1:21:25

    Using Data: Location & City Selection

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:16:20

       a... Like, I'm, I come from a different world, right? Like, is there a API of restaurants together where you can gather data of what is the demographic, what kind of client is buying, how much are they spending? Is this data available?

    2. RARiyaaz Amlani1:16:33

       This data is available with a lot of these-

    3. ZKZorawar Kalra1:16:35

       Real estate consultants

    4. RARiyaaz Amlani1:16:36

       ... real estate consultant, and they-

    5. ZKZorawar Kalra1:16:37

       And they charge you money for it

    6. RARiyaaz Amlani1:16:38

       ... there are, there are enough, uh, companies now-

    7. ZKZorawar Kalra1:16:41

       Mm

    8. RARiyaaz Amlani1:16:41

       ... uh, which are, uh, have very detailed demographically, uh, breakups on each, uh, region.

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:16:47

       Can you give us an example, just-

    10. RARiyaaz Amlani1:16:49

        I will, I will send you a link. I don't know the names-

    11. NKNikhil Kamath1:16:51

        KPMG.

    12. ZKZorawar Kalra1:16:51

        So I'll tell you, uh, JLL-

    13. RARiyaaz Amlani1:16:52

        So JLL is there-

    14. ZKZorawar Kalra1:16:53

        Has given us data, but-

    15. RARiyaaz Amlani1:16:54

        But I'm thinking they're much more-

    16. ZKZorawar Kalra1:16:54

        The data is-

    17. RARiyaaz Amlani1:16:55

        Much more focused.

    18. ZKZorawar Kalra1:16:56

        Yeah.

    19. RARiyaaz Amlani1:16:56

        So JLL, you are mapping-

    20. ZKZorawar Kalra1:16:56

        I don't even think that data is really that up-to-date or accurate. I think it's been ext- extrapolated from a f- you know, finite base of information. I would not, like, take a business decision based purely on a document given to me by JLL. I would go with, in a, almost in a, you know, old-fashioned way, I would go with my gut instinct for a physical space. With a cloud kitchen, obviously, it's, it's geography is history, right?

    21. RARiyaaz Amlani1:17:21

        Mm.

    22. ZKZorawar Kalra1:17:21

        With a cloud kitchen, geography is history or virtual.

    23. NKNikhil Kamath1:17:23

        Mm.

    24. ZKZorawar Kalra1:17:24

        So you don't really need to care about where you are. You need to be in general area. So if you know th- this area, uh, CBD has a large demand of burgers, you'd open somewhere, but you don't need to be on Church Street. You could be in one of our-

    25. NKNikhil Kamath1:17:35

        But, but how do you know CBD has a large demand of burgers? 'Cause-

    26. ZKZorawar Kalra1:17:37

        Zomato and Swiggy zindabad.

    27. NKNikhil Kamath1:17:39

        Do they share data?

    28. ZKZorawar Kalra1:17:40

        Yes, of demand, yes.

    29. NKNikhil Kamath1:17:42

        They share?

    30. ZKZorawar Kalra1:17:42

        So they will, they will help you. They will say-
26. 1:21:25 – 1:25:20

    Real Estate & Rentals Dynamics

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:21:25

       will be the highest?

    2. RARiyaaz Amlani1:21:26

       Not necessarily.

    3. ZKZorawar Kalra1:21:27

       No. Actually, it's not.

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:21:28

       No?

    5. ZKZorawar Kalra1:21:29

       Bombay has a high cost of living, and it's... I mean, it's-- there's still a whole bunch of, you know, different demographics involved. For us, in our system, Bombay is not the number one city for, uh, revenue per square foot. So the real metric you should look at is revenue per square foot.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath1:21:45

       Mm.

    7. ZKZorawar Kalra1:21:45

       So if you've got a ten thousand square foot restaurant, you're doing a crore a month, is different from doing eighty lakhs from a five thousand square foot, right? There is more efficiency in the smaller one. So from that perspective, I think for us, revenue per square foot is coming highest in other cities, not even Delhi, Bombay, Bangalore, Hyderabad, Kolkata. And, um, it just shows the depth that this country has. I mean, just, just look at the numbers. One in three people today is either middle class or wealthier today. By twenty thirty, that number is going to become one in two. A country with one point five billion means seven hundred and fifty million people will be middle class and able to afford the products that we're selling.

    8. NKNikhil Kamath1:22:24

       When does that change? Let's say-

    9. RARiyaaz Amlani1:22:25

       When is that ship going to come home, though?

    10. NKNikhil Kamath1:22:27

        Mm. Yeah.

    11. RARiyaaz Amlani1:22:28

        When is that, when is that ship going to dock?

    12. ZKZorawar Kalra1:22:30

        Twenty-thirty. [laughing]

    13. NKNikhil Kamath1:22:31

        [laughing] They say, they say-

    14. RARiyaaz Amlani1:22:32

        In twenty ten, that was twenty twenty-two.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath1:22:35

        They say density of restaurants in India is about ten percent of China and two percent of US.

    16. RARiyaaz Amlani1:22:42

        Exactly ten percent.

    17. ZKZorawar Kalra1:22:43

        Yeah. Yeah.

    18. RARiyaaz Amlani1:22:44

        Exactly ten percent.

    19. ZKZorawar Kalra1:22:44

        Ten percent, yeah.

    20. RARiyaaz Amlani1:22:44

        You, you look at any chain-

    21. NKNikhil Kamath1:22:46

        Mm

    22. RARiyaaz Amlani1:22:46

        ... which is here, the numbers, you take that, multiply that by ten or eleven, that many restaurants are there in China.

    23. ZKZorawar Kalra1:22:52

        In China.

    24. NKNikhil Kamath1:22:52

        In China, consumption patterns-

    25. ZKZorawar Kalra1:22:53

        Sometimes even more than that

    26. NKNikhil Kamath1:22:54

        ... changed.

    27. RARiyaaz Amlani1:22:54

        And, and real estate prices in China are far more affordable, spending power parity is higher.

    28. ZKZorawar Kalra1:22:59

        Yeah.

    29. RARiyaaz Amlani1:22:59

        So we have our challenges. Real estate prices in India are ridiculous.

    30. NKNikhil Kamath1:23:03

        Mm.
27. 1:25:20 – 1:28:48

    Scaling Up & Valuation in Restaurants

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:25:20

       pick up many independent restaurants... What is the word you used, Riya? CDR. C-

    2. RARiyaaz Amlani1:25:25

       Casual dining restaurants. CDR.

    3. NKNikhil Kamath1:25:26

       Casual dining restaurants. If I were to aggregate a bunch of them-... bring them together, create one entity which has a few hundred of them. My valuation that- [laughing] - I get from the equity markets when I go to raise money will be a bridge or an arbitrage between the discrepancy of the ten multiple that CDR is getting now and the hundred, hundred multiple that QSR is getting. Do you think that makes sense?

    4. ZKZorawar Kalra1:25:55

       Only if your potential investor will see scale in each of those entities that you've wrapped up into one large scale.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath1:26:00

       But you're saying there is scale because you're transitioning well to tier two, tier three.

    6. ZKZorawar Kalra1:26:04

       You could look at it from that perspective.

    7. NKNikhil Kamath1:26:06

       Mm.

    8. ZKZorawar Kalra1:26:06

       But if a sophisticated investor will look at it, they would probably say that you're... As a whole-

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:26:15

       Mm

    10. ZKZorawar Kalra1:26:15

        ... as a sum of a whole-

    11. NKNikhil Kamath1:26:16

        Mm

    12. ZKZorawar Kalra1:26:16

        ... you definitely have this, you know, large-

    13. NKNikhil Kamath1:26:19

        Mm

    14. ZKZorawar Kalra1:26:19

        ... uh, scale, and as a result, in every city, you could eat- open each one of these ten brands and have ten restaurants per, per, um, per city. However, I think a more sophisticated investor will look at the scalability of each of those ten brands.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath1:26:34

        Right.

    16. ZKZorawar Kalra1:26:34

        This is a model that could work. Again, you know, I think, uh, if you've got ten brands that are in the CDR space and affordable, and they have scale potential-

    17. RARiyaaz Amlani1:26:42

        Like you

    18. ZKZorawar Kalra1:26:43

        ... you could, you could have many brands. This is what we do.

    19. PDPooja Dhingra1:26:46

        So isn't, isn't what-

    20. ZKZorawar Kalra1:26:47

        We have many brands

    21. PDPooja Dhingra1:26:47

        ... Phoenix is doing?

    22. ZKZorawar Kalra1:26:49

        They are buying some.

    23. RARiyaaz Amlani1:26:50

        Phoenix. So basically-

    24. PDPooja Dhingra1:26:50

        I think they're doing that, right?

    25. RARiyaaz Amlani1:26:50

        ... the house of brands is a story. See, the point is, what, eighty-five percent of the processes are the same for restauranting, right? You negotiating the right lease, getting the licenses, hiring, training, setting up management information systems, HR, licensing, all are the same. What changes is what's on the wall and what's on the menu.

    26. PDPooja Dhingra1:27:13

        Mm.

    27. RARiyaaz Amlani1:27:13

        Right? That's fifteen percent of the business. Eighty-five percent is all the other stuff. That, really, that fifteen percent is just the details, but we are seeing that India is invest- is dining out a lot more. They're going to CDRs a lot more. The market is four times as big, is growing at, at twenty percent, whereas, uh, s- uh, QSRs have kind of hit a road bump. The pro- the only problem is-

    28. NKNikhil Kamath1:27:37

        Do you think that trend will continue?

    29. RARiyaaz Amlani1:27:37

        The only problem is that... Of course!

    30. NKNikhil Kamath1:27:39

        Mm.
28. 1:28:48 – 1:33:27

    Evolution of Dessert Market: Trends

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:28:48

       category-

    2. PDPooja Dhingra1:28:49

       Mm

    3. NKNikhil Kamath1:28:49

       ... let's say macaroons, desserts, all of that, do you see scope in restaurants being built around that, or do you think the cafe model is more the way to go?

    4. PDPooja Dhingra1:28:59

       [exhaling] Restaurants focusing on desserts?

    5. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:03

       Like, there are often times you would go to a restaurant. I go to certain places where I love the dessert, and I eat the food because I can eat this at the end.

    6. PDPooja Dhingra1:29:11

       What is the dessert contribution in, in your restaurants? I don't think it's very high.

    7. RARiyaaz Amlani1:29:16

       Three and a half percent.

    8. PDPooja Dhingra1:29:17

       It's not very high.

    9. RARiyaaz Amlani1:29:18

       But that's my restaurant. [laughing]

    10. PDPooja Dhingra1:29:19

        [laughing]

    11. RARiyaaz Amlani1:29:21

        There's different-

    12. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:22

        Can that change?

    13. RARiyaaz Amlani1:29:22

        It's different, right?

    14. PDPooja Dhingra1:29:23

        Yeah.

    15. RARiyaaz Amlani1:29:23

        I mean, it's-

    16. PDPooja Dhingra1:29:23

        I mean, look, we had a, we, we had a, a, a cafe. I wouldn't call it a, a full-fledged restaurant, but it was a cafe. But thirty percent of our revenue did come from desserts, thirty percent came from food, and the rest came from beverages.

    17. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:37

        Coffee?

    18. PDPooja Dhingra1:29:38

        Um, coffee and tea.

    19. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:39

        Coffee is really growing, right?

    20. PDPooja Dhingra1:29:40

        Coffee is really growing.

    21. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:41

        Is that something you would consider?

    22. PDPooja Dhingra1:29:43

        Um, it's a whole different... I think coffee and dessert is, you know, just, it's a marriage-

    23. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:48

        Mm

    24. PDPooja Dhingra1:29:49

        ... that's made in heaven. I would love to do it, no?

    25. RARiyaaz Amlani1:29:51

        Yes.

    26. PDPooja Dhingra1:29:52

        Karnika hai.

    27. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:52

        Do you think this whole trend, at least in the premium segment-

    28. PDPooja Dhingra1:29:56

        Mm

    29. NKNikhil Kamath1:29:56

        ... if premiumization is working, like Riyaaz said, and the premium segment-

    30. PDPooja Dhingra1:30:00

        Mm
29. 1:33:27 – 1:34:50

    QSR & India’s Consumption Future

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:33:27

       is twenty percent, in Korea is thirty percent.

    2. RARiyaaz Amlani1:33:29

       Of the, of that market?

    3. NKNikhil Kamath1:33:31

       Of that market.

    4. RARiyaaz Amlani1:33:31

       Okay.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath1:33:32

       In India, it's just three percent today.

    6. RARiyaaz Amlani1:33:34

       In UK, you're saying it's, it's fifty percent of the-

    7. NKNikhil Kamath1:33:36

       US, US.

    8. ZKZorawar Kalra1:33:37

       Yeah, US, yes.

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:33:39

       US, I, I read this number that as much as sixty percent of overall consumption in the country is QSR.

    10. RARiyaaz Amlani1:33:45

        Really?

    11. PDPooja Dhingra1:33:46

        Yeah.

    12. ZKZorawar Kalra1:33:46

        Of food?

    13. NKNikhil Kamath1:33:47

        No, just consumption.

    14. RARiyaaz Amlani1:33:48

        Mm.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath1:33:49

        Overall consumption.

    16. ZKZorawar Kalra1:33:49

        Across the GDP?

    17. NKNikhil Kamath1:33:51

        Yeah.

    18. ZKZorawar Kalra1:33:51

        Across the GDP?

    19. NKNikhil Kamath1:33:52

        Across the consumption specter. And, see, most of the money people spend is on food, right? Like even in India, consumption-

    20. ZKZorawar Kalra1:33:59

        Disposable income, yeah

    21. NKNikhil Kamath1:34:00

        ... between groceries and eating out and delivery and all of this, is a large part of consumption.

    22. ZKZorawar Kalra1:34:05

        I think in the US, the rent will probably be the biggest, but you're right. I think in terms of gross disposable income spend, food would be highest. They don't cook at home.

    23. NKNikhil Kamath1:34:12

        Yeah.

    24. ZKZorawar Kalra1:34:12

        They eat out more often than anybody-

    25. RARiyaaz Amlani1:34:14

        It's labor arbitrage

    26. ZKZorawar Kalra1:34:14

        ... except the Singaporeans.

    27. NKNikhil Kamath1:34:15

        So which way do you think India will go? India is at three percent. Do you think we'll go the China way, where there seems to be a balance of dine-in, QSR, all of that working? But QSR has only grown to twenty percent and stopped there. I think that's a cultural difference. You think India is more going to mimic China than America because culturally we are similar?

    28. RARiyaaz Amlani1:34:37

        My vote goes to China. It's, it's, it... Look, in America, fast food works because it's labor arbitrage. You go to a supermarket, you buy the ingredients, you

30. 1:34:50 – 1:36:49

    Riyaaz's Take on Cost of Goods

    1. RARiyaaz Amlani1:34:50

       chop it, you cook it, you stir it, you plate it, you wash the dishes after that. It's gonna cost you more than going to a QSR, ordering that, uh, that burger, that fry, that shake. It's gonna be cheaper, faster, quicker.

    2. NKNikhil Kamath1:35:04

       Mm-hmm.

    3. RARiyaaz Amlani1:35:04

       And in, in India, it's not that yet. It's still cheaper to make food at home. It's, the labor or the labor arbitrage is still not considered that important, right? There's always gonna be, uh, somebody at home who's, who's happy to cook for you, who's gonna happily clean the dishes for you. So that, that price arbitrage is not there, so the value seekers will continue-

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:35:25

       Is that what-

    5. RARiyaaz Amlani1:35:26

       ... it go to the market

    6. NKNikhil Kamath1:35:26

       ... would actually help your industry eventually-

    7. RARiyaaz Amlani1:35:28

       I think

    8. NKNikhil Kamath1:35:28

       ... if cost of labor goes up?

    9. RARiyaaz Amlani1:35:30

       It will go-

    10. NKNikhil Kamath1:35:31

        Help?

    11. RARiyaaz Amlani1:35:31

        It will go up, because, you see, right now, one in four employable people are Indians in the world. One out of six and a half is Indian, one out of four in the world, and somewhere the demand and supply is going to equalize.

    12. NKNikhil Kamath1:35:47

        Mm.

    13. RARiyaaz Amlani1:35:47

        We are anyway seeing, um, a lot of strain-

    14. NKNikhil Kamath1:35:51

        Mm

    15. RARiyaaz Amlani1:35:51

        ... on the labor department. Canada has opened up its, its gateways. They're taking in as many people. The Middle East is taking in, you know, shiploads of people from India, espec- and, and I'm talking only about in the hospitality sector, so-

    16. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:03

        That will make it more expensive for you in India.

    17. RARiyaaz Amlani1:36:04

        It, it will get, so this, this demand-supply, you know, gap is going to, uh, eventually start to-

    18. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:09

        How has the cost of labor gone up for you in your restaurants, let's say, over the last five years?

    19. RARiyaaz Amlani1:36:14

        I think what has happened is, we have... Look, you want to be south of fifteen percent when it comes to your labor cost. That is a broad level thumb rule.

    20. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:23

        So thirty percent cost of goods? Fifteen-

    21. RARiyaaz Amlani1:36:25

        Uh, thirty-five percent COGS, right?

    22. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:27

        Mm.

    23. RARiyaaz Amlani1:36:27

        You got fifteen percent labor, fifteen percent, uh-

    24. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:31

        Rental

    25. RARiyaaz Amlani1:36:31

        ... rental, fifteen percent incidentals. You wanna make twenty to twenty-five percent.

    26. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:36

        Marketing?

    27. RARiyaaz Amlani1:36:38

        About three percent or four percent.

    28. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:40

        Is that all?

    29. RARiyaaz Amlani1:36:41

        Yeah.

    30. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:42

        What is working in marketing? Now, I see Pooja is very active on social media, right?
31. 1:36:49 – 1:40:23

    Social Media & Marketing: Game Changers

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:49

       of your clientele is coming in through social media, and what is working? I'm guessing performance marketing in the manner that worked a few years ago with Facebook and Instagram ads and Google Ads, I don't think that works as well anymore, right?

    2. PDPooja Dhingra1:37:03

       No. So I think for me, um, social media just started off as something that I was just doing because it felt very natural.

    3. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:10

       Mm.

    4. PDPooja Dhingra1:37:11

       Uh, the phone was like the extension of my hand.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:13

       Mm.

    6. PDPooja Dhingra1:37:13

       I was in the kitchen baking a cake.

    7. RARiyaaz Amlani1:37:14

       You are a natural. [chuckles] You are a natural with that.

    8. PDPooja Dhingra1:37:17

       Reels, I can't. So anyway, so I would take a pic-

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:19

       But that's working more, right? Videos are working-

    10. PDPooja Dhingra1:37:20

        Exactly

    11. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:21

        ... significantly more than pictures.

    12. PDPooja Dhingra1:37:22

        Yeah, yeah.

    13. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:23

        So what works? Give me two hacks. What works now-

    14. PDPooja Dhingra1:37:26

        What works now-

    15. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:26

        Why does Pooja have seven million followers, where others do not?

    16. PDPooja Dhingra1:37:29

        What works now, I don't know.

    17. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:31

        What worked for you?

    18. PDPooja Dhingra1:37:33

        Uh... [chuckles] ... being in the right place at the right time. [laughing]

    19. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:36

        [laughing] Describe that. I knew that was gonna come back and bite me, but- [laughing]

    20. RARiyaaz Amlani1:37:41

        You sow, you reap.

    21. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:43

        [laughing]

    22. PDPooja Dhingra1:37:44

        Yeah.

    23. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:44

        Elaborate.

    24. PDPooja Dhingra1:37:45

        That's one thing I've gotten from you, also, I'll use it later. Um, I think it was a time when, um, Instagram wasn't as, uh, big as it is today, and it was more organic.

    25. NKNikhil Kamath1:37:57

        Mm-hmm.

    26. PDPooja Dhingra1:37:57

        Um, and I just feel that I was in a space where I had a lot of customers, uh, who were very popular and who are very popular and well-known, and have millions and millions of followers. And, um, I think it was, uh, also me sharing my whole experience about building Le15. I've always been honest, open, transparent.

    27. NKNikhil Kamath1:38:16

        Did that help, your personal story?

    28. PDPooja Dhingra1:38:18

        Yes, 100%, 'cause people related to it, right?

    29. NKNikhil Kamath1:38:21

        Mm.

    30. PDPooja Dhingra1:38:21

        People love a story. They're like, "Okay, I know how she is-"
32. 1:40:23 – 1:46:13

    Nikhil's Investing Checklist & Food Culture

    1. PDPooja Dhingra1:40:23

       and things. What is it that you look at?

    2. NKNikhil Kamath1:40:25

       Financials first-

    3. PDPooja Dhingra1:40:27

       Mm

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:40:27

       ... uh, at reasonable valuations. I'm a stock market guy, right?

    5. PDPooja Dhingra1:40:31

       Mm.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath1:40:31

       Like, I look at public markets very closely. So when I saw QSR chains getting the multiple that they are, while they are just franchisee models-

    7. PDPooja Dhingra1:40:42

       Mm

    8. NKNikhil Kamath1:40:42

       ... replicating a foreign product, in necessarily not a innovative way, I don't think they deserve that valuation.

    9. PDPooja Dhingra1:40:49

       Mm.

    10. NKNikhil Kamath1:40:50

        I don't think dine-in restaurants deserve the low valuation they, they are getting as well, because to be fair to them, they're creating a more nuanced product than a QSR chain.

    11. RARiyaaz Amlani1:41:03

        And again, I'll tell you something, it's... You know, India is a market without precedent, right?

    12. NKNikhil Kamath1:41:07

        Yeah.

    13. RARiyaaz Amlani1:41:08

        It is unique in many ways. Uh, we spoke about, uh, consistency.

    14. NKNikhil Kamath1:41:13

        Mm-hmm.

    15. RARiyaaz Amlani1:41:14

        The whole point, and, and, and you know, I think a lot of QSRs have, have tom-tommed consistency, perhaps because they don't want to tell you what is going into the patty-

    16. PDPooja Dhingra1:41:23

        Mm

    17. RARiyaaz Amlani1:41:23

        ... or what is, how much cheese is in the sauce, right? That is not something that you want it to be available for public consumption.

    18. NKNikhil Kamath1:41:31

        Mm.

    19. RARiyaaz Amlani1:41:31

        That's something you got... And then you put the garb of consistency on it. The fact remains is that flavor profiles change every 100 kilometers, right? We, in Delhi, we like red chili spice.

    20. NKNikhil Kamath1:41:42

        Yeah.

    21. RARiyaaz Amlani1:41:42

        Right? In Maharashtra, we like our green chilies, but we like our food little khatta meetha.

    22. NKNikhil Kamath1:41:48

        In a QSR, you never do.

    23. RARiyaaz Amlani1:41:48

        We like a little saa- saanus.

    24. PDPooja Dhingra1:41:49

        Mm.

    25. RARiyaaz Amlani1:41:50

        We- in Gujarat, we like it in the sweet-

    26. NKNikhil Kamath1:41:51

        You won't get the rules.

    27. RARiyaaz Amlani1:41:52

        In, in, in the south of India, we like black pepper spice, right?

    28. NKNikhil Kamath1:41:55

        Yeah, yeah.

    29. RARiyaaz Amlani1:41:55

        And we, these are the flavors that we like, and this is-

    30. NKNikhil Kamath1:41:58

        Mm
33. 1:46:13 – 1:57:20

    Opportunity in Organised Space

    1. ZKZorawar Kalra1:49:40

       ... a Pa Pa Ya or a Yao Cha or, sorry, Yao Cha doesn't do s- sushi, but like our Coco, you probably, um, will see a difference. But the market is what dictates what you serve. And multicuisine, even though, um, it's something that, uh, forms a very small part of my system, I think has its, has made its space.

    2. NKNikhil Kamath1:50:01

       Mm.

    3. ZKZorawar Kalra1:50:02

       Indians go out in families. The other is eating something else, children are eating something else, the husband and wife are eating something else. But can a specialty restaurant perhaps produce a higher quality, uh-

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:50:13

       Probably not, right?

    5. ZKZorawar Kalra1:50:13

       ... food experience? A specialty restaurant will probably create a higher quality experience-

    6. NKNikhil Kamath1:50:17

       Yeah.

    7. ZKZorawar Kalra1:50:17

       -for sure.

    8. RARiyaaz Amlani1:50:18

       It can. It's not, it's not impossible. If you go... If you think about, like, you think of a hotel-

    9. ZKZorawar Kalra1:50:23

       Mm.

    10. RARiyaaz Amlani1:50:23

        ... right? Let's say, take a hotel which has exceptional cuisine, and there are hotels like that. It's all helmed by one chef, right?

    11. ZKZorawar Kalra1:50:29

        Mm.

    12. RARiyaaz Amlani1:50:29

        Is there-

    13. ZKZorawar Kalra1:50:30

        No, actually, uh-

    14. RARiyaaz Amlani1:50:31

        What, what-

    15. ZKZorawar Kalra1:50:31

        -hotel has-

    16. RARiyaaz Amlani1:50:33

        What-

    17. ZKZorawar Kalra1:50:33

        -different disciplines. Every, every kitchen-

    18. RARiyaaz Amlani1:50:35

        Have-

    19. ZKZorawar Kalra1:50:35

        -will have its own chef.

    20. RARiyaaz Amlani1:50:36

        Yes, but you have one executive chef for the whole hotel, right? You have-

    21. ZKZorawar Kalra1:50:39

        Mm

    22. RARiyaaz Amlani1:50:39

        ... specialists, but they all report to one chef.

    23. ZKZorawar Kalra1:50:41

        Mm.

    24. RARiyaaz Amlani1:50:41

        So in that sense. What I was trying to say is that, um, I think the context in which you're consuming food is also very, very important, right? I mean, you can- if you are eat- you're consuming Japanese, then to have food in that kind of context adds value to it.

    25. ZKZorawar Kalra1:50:56

        Right.

    26. RARiyaaz Amlani1:50:57

        Right? If you are, if you are eating, uh, Empire ka kebabs, at, at, at that particular point of time, being in that area or sitting in your car adds context to it. So, I mean-

    27. NKNikhil Kamath1:51:09

        How big, how big is ambiance?

    28. ZKZorawar Kalra1:51:11

        I think it's... I was the kind of guy who, 10 years ago, would say to you that food is number one priority-

    29. NKNikhil Kamath1:51:17

        Mm

    30. ZKZorawar Kalra1:51:17

        ... and everything else revolves around it.
34. 1:57:20 – 2:00:45

    Premiumization Potential in Indian Market

    1. PDPooja Dhingra1:57:20

       Ladurée exists in India, so they sell it-

    2. NKNikhil Kamath1:57:22

       Just open up.

    3. PDPooja Dhingra1:57:22

       300?

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:57:23

       Yeah.

    5. PDPooja Dhingra1:57:25

       Yeah.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath1:57:25

       I think the question I'm trying to get to-

    7. PDPooja Dhingra1:57:27

       Mm

    8. NKNikhil Kamath1:57:27

       ... is that if you guys were to scatter one or two restaurants, which are ultra-premium in terms of produce and quality, is there a market? Like, you charge five times more than what you charge for a dish today.

    9. RARiyaaz Amlani1:57:41

       Yeah. Absolutely.

    10. NKNikhil Kamath1:57:42

        Then why are you not attempting it?

    11. PDPooja Dhingra1:57:44

        We are already quite premium, so...

    12. NKNikhil Kamath1:57:46

        I know, but if there is a market there-

    13. PDPooja Dhingra1:57:49

        Yeah

    14. NKNikhil Kamath1:57:49

        ... at 300 rupees a macaron, why are you not attempting that?

    15. ZKZorawar Kalra1:57:53

        We did try, um, with Louis Burger, with the 888 rupee burger, with real truffles, real black truffle shavings.

    16. NKNikhil Kamath1:58:01

        Yeah.

    17. ZKZorawar Kalra1:58:01

        Worked very well. At one point in time, it was 10% of our sales.

    18. NKNikhil Kamath1:58:04

        Mm.

    19. ZKZorawar Kalra1:58:04

        It was a huge market. But then, it is a delivery burger at the end of the day, and no matter what kind of packaging you put around it, it's hard to sell a almost 900 rupee burger to somebody at home. But I think there's a huge market for the, the ultra-fine dine. Uh, there are wonderful restaurants, including my own-

    20. NKNikhil Kamath1:58:22

        But it's-

    21. ZKZorawar Kalra1:58:22

        ... shameless plug

    22. NKNikhil Kamath1:58:22

        But it's not scalable.

    23. ZKZorawar Kalra1:58:23

        No, it's not. It's not scalable. So Masala Library, for example, is a restaurant that I have. I have one in Bombay, another one opening in Delhi, and then I have one in, in Doha, in Qatar. Now, these are all premium restaurants. The price per head is 3, 4,000 rupees per head, you know, with liquor. Um, they're not scalable.

    24. NKNikhil Kamath1:58:41

        Mm.

    25. ZKZorawar Kalra1:58:42

        But here I can afford to buy the high-end product, produce. I can afford to buy the high-end ingredients [chuckles] and I can afford to buy-

    26. NKNikhil Kamath1:58:52

        [chuckles]

    27. ZKZorawar Kalra1:58:53

        ... the really high-quality stuff, right? So I can afford to buy those high-quality ingredients because I can sell them at a higher price.

    28. NKNikhil Kamath1:59:00

        Mm.

    29. ZKZorawar Kalra1:59:00

        So some of these things definitely do come into play.

    30. NKNikhil Kamath1:59:03

        Yeah.
35. 2:00:45 – 2:06:18

    Why Celebrity Restaurants Fail

    1. ZKZorawar Kalra2:00:45

       never-

    2. RARiyaaz Amlani2:00:45

       Absolutely overrated.

    3. ZKZorawar Kalra2:00:45

       They've never worked, really.

    4. RARiyaaz Amlani2:00:47

       Never worked. Very good.

    5. ZKZorawar Kalra2:00:49

       You know, the only country-

    6. NKNikhil Kamath2:00:51

       Uh

    7. ZKZorawar Kalra2:00:51

       ... in which... You like it? Good.

    8. RARiyaaz Amlani2:00:53

       What?

    9. ZKZorawar Kalra2:00:53

       The only country in which a celebrity/sports star-run restaurant is the most popular, Sri Lanka, because their celebrities are the cricketers.

    10. NKNikhil Kamath2:01:02

        Mm.

    11. ZKZorawar Kalra2:01:02

        So, and every other country in the world, you could take Planet, Planet Hollywood, okay? It had Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sylvester Stallone as the founders.

    12. NKNikhil Kamath2:01:11

        Mm.

    13. ZKZorawar Kalra2:01:12

        Bombed. So many... I'm not going to take individual restaurants' numbers. Um, if you look at even within India, sports stars have owned restaurants.

    14. NKNikhil Kamath2:01:20

        Mm. Virat Kohli.

    15. ZKZorawar Kalra2:01:21

        Virat Kohli.

    16. NKNikhil Kamath2:01:22

        One8.

    17. ZKZorawar Kalra2:01:23

        Um, Zaheer Khan. [chuckles]

    18. PDPooja Dhingra2:01:24

        It's not doing well?

    19. ZKZorawar Kalra2:01:25

        Sachin Tendulkar.

    20. NKNikhil Kamath2:01:26

        Isn't One8 doing well?

    21. RARiyaaz Amlani2:01:27

        It's-

    22. ZKZorawar Kalra2:01:27

        One8 is, One8 is a, might be an exception that is doing well in certain areas. I'm just saying, in general, they don't tend to do that well, because-

    23. PDPooja Dhingra2:01:32

        What are the other celebrity-owned?

    24. RARiyaaz Amlani2:01:34

        All of your restaurants. [chuckles] All of Zorawar's.

    25. ZKZorawar Kalra2:01:38

        So I think people see through it.

    26. RARiyaaz Amlani2:01:40

        Come on!

    27. ZKZorawar Kalra2:01:41

        Um, the only... By the way, by the mo- well, the most successful Japanese-

    28. RARiyaaz Amlani2:01:44

        You should be a celebrity for owning a restaurant.

    29. ZKZorawar Kalra2:01:46

        Huh?

    30. RARiyaaz Amlani2:01:47

        ... you are a celebrity for owning a restaurant, so why not?
36. 2:06:18 – 2:13:30

    Aggregator Dynamics: Commissions

    1. ZKZorawar Kalra2:06:18

       Because-

    2. RARiyaaz Amlani2:06:18

       There's no other way

    3. ZKZorawar Kalra2:06:19

       ... there's no other alternative. If you build your own fleet-

    4. NKNikhil Kamath2:06:21

       Mm

    5. ZKZorawar Kalra2:06:21

       ... the cost would be prohibitive.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath2:06:23

       Mm.

    7. ZKZorawar Kalra2:06:23

       Uh, there would be a risk associated with managing the manpower, various things, and the ease of the consumer. The consumer is so used to using those apps. It's very hard. So sometimes we try, and obviously, we don't get data from the aggregators, so we want to collect that data. So we offer bigger discounts to try and get that customer to order directly, and yet the adoption rates are fairly low. It's got to do with convenience.

    8. NKNikhil Kamath2:06:45

       In a pre-aggregator world, how did all this work? Phone.

    9. ZKZorawar Kalra2:06:47

       We were doing ourselves. You're delivering yourself, and that's when it was a small business.

    10. RARiyaaz Amlani2:06:51

        Phone and Domino's.

    11. ZKZorawar Kalra2:06:52

        They, they definitely have built the business, but I think the margins are not sustainable. So when you said twelve percent, it's actually not twelve percent, it's more than that. It's twelve percent plus payment gateway, which you have to pay anyway, two percent, plus GST.

    12. RARiyaaz Amlani2:07:06

        I'm saying will be twelve percent is the only sustainable number that can be paid.

    13. ZKZorawar Kalra2:07:08

        But, but you're talking about including taxes? Because the GST is another big problem for us, right?

    14. RARiyaaz Amlani2:07:12

        Mm.

    15. ZKZorawar Kalra2:07:12

        Actually becomes, the twelve becomes, like, sixteen.

    16. RARiyaaz Amlani2:07:14

        Yeah.

    17. ZKZorawar Kalra2:07:15

        And that's where your margins get completely constrained. And they then say, "To build relevance," the term used, um, "you have to spend more money."

    18. NKNikhil Kamath2:07:24

        Mm.

    19. ZKZorawar Kalra2:07:24

        So I think, um, the platforms have definitely built this huge market and this ecosystem, and made Indians fall in love with delivery, made it very easy, easy to get it. Convenient, and convenience will always win.... so there's no point of, it's going to be an uphill battle to try and build your own system. Uh, if a lot of restaurants, top delivery partners, uh, sorry, top, um, restaurant partners get together and build their own system, might, might potentially work. Individually, it'll be hard to, uh, address it, and it won't make sense because adoption rates will be so low, and the amount of money you'll have to spend to get those people to come to your app or your-

    20. NKNikhil Kamath2:08:01

        Mm

    21. ZKZorawar Kalra2:08:01

        ... landing page and order, it's going to be-

    22. NKNikhil Kamath2:08:03

        Mm.

    23. ZKZorawar Kalra2:08:04

        It's going to be trickling.

    24. NKNikhil Kamath2:08:05

        Can't like a bunch of you get together, because you guys have such broad chains, and create your own, like a cooperative of restaurants running their own delivery?

    25. ZKZorawar Kalra2:08:14

        Riyaaz should address this.

    26. RARiyaaz Amlani2:08:18

        It's, it's going to become increasingly critical that we have a counterpoint. We, we are developing and working very closely, uh, with ONDC.

    27. NKNikhil Kamath2:08:28

        Mm.

    28. RARiyaaz Amlani2:08:29

        Now, we are going to build channels. We are going to start building competencies.

    29. NKNikhil Kamath2:08:32

        Mm.

    30. RARiyaaz Amlani2:08:33

        Because, um, we have nothing against aggregators. We appreciate that they have actually helped build a demand, right, which is not competing with the restaurant business. The delivery business is competing with-
37. 2:13:30 – 2:15:54

    Aggregators and Restaurants

    1. ZKZorawar Kalra2:13:30

       that dialogue-

    2. NKNikhil Kamath2:13:30

       ... want to build the fleet individually when you can get...

    3. ZKZorawar Kalra2:13:34

       Exactly.

    4. RARiyaaz Amlani2:13:35

       A cluster fleet.

    5. ZKZorawar Kalra2:13:35

       That's exactly my point. Oh, you mean when we get together, some of us get together?

    6. NKNikhil Kamath2:13:39

       Like you would want Riyaaz-

    7. ZKZorawar Kalra2:13:40

       That would be-

    8. NKNikhil Kamath2:13:40

       You would want Pooja, you would want like a hundred others with you.

    9. ZKZorawar Kalra2:13:42

       Absolutely.

    10. RARiyaaz Amlani2:13:43

        I think they... I think, uh-

    11. ZKZorawar Kalra2:13:44

        That's an alternative

    12. RARiyaaz Amlani2:13:44

        ... it's not that-

    13. PDPooja Dhingra2:13:45

        You let us thrive?

    14. RARiyaaz Amlani2:13:46

        ... Uh, I use DotPe, uh, but yeah, Thrive is another good mechanism. And you can do, have pinging services from, you know, um, a plethora of people, which will tell you where to go, how to go. You can even give tracking services.

    15. SPSpeaker2:13:59

        What is-

    16. RARiyaaz Amlani2:13:59

        It's all available.

    17. SPSpeaker2:14:00

        What is happening with doing-

    18. RARiyaaz Amlani2:14:01

        But the discovery element, sorry-

    19. SPSpeaker2:14:02

        Is tough

    20. RARiyaaz Amlani2:14:03

        ... uh, is better on these platforms, right?

    21. SPSpeaker2:14:06

        The apps.

    22. RARiyaaz Amlani2:14:06

        When you know, when you have the loyalty, when you know exactly what you want-

    23. SPSpeaker2:14:10

        Mm.

    24. RARiyaaz Amlani2:14:11

        -there is a use case to go to your, you know, your app, because now you can do it on WhatsApp.

    25. SPSpeaker2:14:15

        Mm.

    26. RARiyaaz Amlani2:14:15

        You've got catalogs available, you can call. If you don't want the hassle, you want the convenience, all that data stack is available to you on various platform. But the discovery component and the, the discounting component, that is the catnip that people-

    27. SPSpeaker2:14:31

        Yeah

    28. RARiyaaz Amlani2:14:31

        ... are coming back for.

    29. SPSpeaker2:14:32

        But how can-

    30. PDPooja Dhingra2:14:32

        Yeah
38. 2:15:54 – 2:18:42

    Delivery Alternatives & Negotiations

    1. PDPooja Dhingra2:15:54

       300 rupee macaron idea.

    2. SPSpeaker2:15:55

       Yeah.

    3. PDPooja Dhingra2:15:55

       I'm gonna do it.

    4. SPSpeaker2:15:56

       Go with it.

    5. PDPooja Dhingra2:15:56

       You should-

    6. RARiyaaz Amlani2:15:57

       Yeah, put gold-

    7. PDPooja Dhingra2:15:58

       ... put gold on it.

    8. RARiyaaz Amlani2:15:58

       Yeah, put gold. Put gold on it.

    9. PDPooja Dhingra2:15:59

       Yeah.

    10. RARiyaaz Amlani2:16:00

        Okay, great.

    11. PDPooja Dhingra2:16:00

        So is there a tip, like, if I'm a new restaurateur, and I'm going to Swiggy and Zomato, I know it's ridiculously, obnoxiously high, the margin, for whatever reason, market fundamentals. How do I negotiate?

    12. RARiyaaz Amlani2:16:13

        [speaking Hindi] The only way of doing this is to have a really, really strong product. Tell the aggregators to sit on it. Like, just do your business, create a great demand, create a great thing. They will come to you, and they will do it at your price.

    13. SPSpeaker2:16:39

        Can't you play one-

    14. RARiyaaz Amlani2:16:40

        If you do not, if-

    15. SPSpeaker2:16:41

        ... against the other?

    16. RARiyaaz Amlani2:16:41

        You can, but-

    17. SPSpeaker2:16:42

        The-

    18. RARiyaaz Amlani2:16:42

        ... again, if you're an also ranked product, uh, you- if you have a very, very solid product-

    19. SPSpeaker2:16:48

        Mm

    20. RARiyaaz Amlani2:16:48

        ... which has great recall, which has, which has a fan following-

    21. SPSpeaker2:16:51

        Mm

    22. RARiyaaz Amlani2:16:51

        ... which is becoming, you know, very, very trendy, people are reaching out and wonder, "Are you not on that?" That's something that they will come to you and say, "Okay, we want you exclusively," then, then you can start playing off each other.

    23. PDPooja Dhingra2:17:02

        Since, why is actually-

    24. SPSpeaker2:17:02

        Why can't you tell Swiggy, "I will..." If you crack a deal with Swiggy at 15% and tell Zomato, "Unless you do 12%, I'll only sell on Swiggy," why wouldn't that work?

    25. RARiyaaz Amlani2:17:13

        I don't... I think, I think people have tried that-

    26. SPSpeaker2:17:15

        Uh

    27. RARiyaaz Amlani2:17:15

        ... and I don't think it's gonna work throughout. So they've also wisened up to that. But I think more importantly-

    28. SPSpeaker2:17:19

        Do they work together? Do they collude?

    29. RARiyaaz Amlani2:17:20

        No, they don't. What? They don't. They don't even hire from each other, from what I know.

    30. PDPooja Dhingra2:17:24

        [chuckles]
39. 2:18:42 – 2:22:05

    Delivery Cost Analysis & ONDC

    1. PDPooja Dhingra2:18:42

       5%, right?

    2. SPSpeaker2:18:42

       Yeah.

    3. PDPooja Dhingra2:18:42

       What is the issue with it right now?

    4. SPSpeaker2:18:44

       So ONDC is definitely a very... It's a democratization and a commoditization of delivery. Now, here's the beauty: there are enough third-party aggregators that can responsibly and effectively take your product from your cloud kitchen or your restaurant to the end user. There are enough of them now. They, however, perhaps, are not as seamless, because Magicpin or Paytm, who have these seller apps on ONDC, are still relying on these third-party people. They're not employees of Magicpin or employees of Paytm, they're third-party delivery people. So that extra charge is there, but the way to circumvent that is to be able to charge the consumer a, a, a fee, and I think the fee for three kilometers is 50 rupees. So if you're within three kilometers, you charge 50. It's a little bit more, charge 70. I think people... And the, the advantage is because-

    5. RARiyaaz Amlani2:19:31

       Delivery prices are coming down, Zorawar, right? The cost of delivery is coming down because as we move into-

    6. SPSpeaker2:19:36

       No, but that's my point, no

    7. RARiyaaz Amlani2:19:37

       ... electric mobility-

    8. SPSpeaker2:19:37

       So that ONDC is a viable alternative.

    9. RARiyaaz Amlani2:19:38

       Right now, right now, the cost of... The actual hardcore COG, okay, COGS of delivery is at 22 rupees. It's not, it's not-

    10. SPSpeaker2:19:48

        Per what? Twenty rupees what?

    11. RARiyaaz Amlani2:19:49

        Twenty-two rupees is the COG, cost of delivery.

    12. ZKZorawar Kalra2:19:52

        ... for what distance?

    13. RARiyaaz Amlani2:19:53

        Is what you pay is what you will pay your guy. It's your average, this thing of five kilometers-

    14. ZKZorawar Kalra2:19:56

        Irrespective of distance.

    15. RARiyaaz Amlani2:19:57

        Yeah, twenty-two, twenty-two rupees is your cost.

    16. ZKZorawar Kalra2:19:59

        Per kilometer, or what are you saying?

    17. RARiyaaz Amlani2:20:01

        Twenty-two rupees is your cost of delivery for that package, and come back.

    18. ZKZorawar Kalra2:20:06

        But there is a distance to it, right?

    19. RARiyaaz Amlani2:20:07

        Five kilometers.

    20. ZKZorawar Kalra2:20:08

        If it's 100 kilometers away, you can't-

    21. RARiyaaz Amlani2:20:09

        Five kilometers-

    22. ZKZorawar Kalra2:20:10

        Mm

    23. RARiyaaz Amlani2:20:10

        ... is twenty-two rupees, right? Your-- the, the problem which is happening is that ONDC is coming through seller apps.

    24. ZKZorawar Kalra2:20:17

        Yeah.

    25. RARiyaaz Amlani2:20:17

        And that's only as good as the fact that how MagicPin is doing, right? The point is that ONDC, once we start creating our own storefronts-

    26. ZKZorawar Kalra2:20:27

        Ecosystem

    27. RARiyaaz Amlani2:20:28

        ... on ONDC, and we start working regional-wise, where we start sharpening our delivery, uh, capabilities, our what is called online on-demand delivery, right? Because that's what these guys have really cracked, is on-demand delivery. Dunzo is very good, Shadowfax is very good at delivery, last mile delivery, but not necessarily on demand. The trick is to get the meal into their hands in fifteen minutes or less. After it leaves from the kitchen, it has to be able to get to that person.

    28. ZKZorawar Kalra2:20:57

        But that will happen with scale.

    29. NKNikhil Kamath2:20:59

        Right. Incredible innovation, though, right? ONDC.

    30. ZKZorawar Kalra2:21:01

        It's beautiful. It's a democratization.
40. 2:22:05 – 2:23:33

    Cloud Kitchens: Do They Work?

    1. NKNikhil Kamath2:22:05

       That's interesting.

    2. ZKZorawar Kalra2:22:05

       Yeah.

    3. RARiyaaz Amlani2:22:06

       Cloud kitchens work for very... Either you are a very strong brand that you've built over the years. You come from a certain pedigree and have the sophistication enough to understand sophisticated marketing tools-

    4. NKNikhil Kamath2:22:22

       Mm

    5. RARiyaaz Amlani2:22:22

       ... right, and CRM, and, and to be data driven and analytically driven. It's very, very difficult for the average O... If what you think the mortality rates in the restaurant business are high, the mortality rates in the cloud kitchen business are, are twice as high. Because, uh, you-- the data which we've seen, I said-

    6. NKNikhil Kamath2:22:41

       So we actually use as a testing ground

    7. RARiyaaz Amlani2:22:43

       ... five thousand restaurants a month-

    8. NKNikhil Kamath2:22:45

       Wow

    9. RARiyaaz Amlani2:22:45

       ... are going off platforms. That's five thousand broken dreams every month.

    10. NKNikhil Kamath2:22:49

        Wow.

    11. RARiyaaz Amlani2:22:50

        Right, and they're just going out because they cannot manage. Because how will you manage when fifty-five percent of your margin has been taken away by somebody?

    12. ZKZorawar Kalra2:22:57

        I don't think it's fifty-five percent.

    13. RARiyaaz Amlani2:22:58

        How?

    14. ZKZorawar Kalra2:22:58

        I think your numbers are not there.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath2:22:59

        Push come to shove, things, things stay as they are today, will you build your own fleet? Will you have to build your own?

    16. ZKZorawar Kalra2:23:06

        I think it's good to have a good balance. I definitely would like a scenario where, um, twenty-five to thirty percent-

    17. NKNikhil Kamath2:23:13

        Mm-hmm

    18. ZKZorawar Kalra2:23:14

        ... of our delivery orders are done directly. From a data perspective, I want to have a direct contact with my consumer and get feedback more closely. I think that's the sweet spot for me.

    19. NKNikhil Kamath2:23:25

        Mm-hmm. So top, top dishes: chaat, biryani, sweets, or top cuisines: Chinese,

41. 2:23:33 – 2:27:50

    Cuisine Selection: Untold Hacks

    1. NKNikhil Kamath2:23:33

       Indian. Do you think the odds of success are higher building here or building something new altogether, as a new person starting a restaurant?

    2. ZKZorawar Kalra2:23:44

       Pedigree always helps.

    3. NKNikhil Kamath2:23:46

       No, pedigree nothing.

    4. ZKZorawar Kalra2:23:46

       Are you saying that... Are you, what is-

    5. NKNikhil Kamath2:23:48

       I'm a new guy.

    6. ZKZorawar Kalra2:23:48

       Yeah.

    7. NKNikhil Kamath2:23:48

       I've saved up a little bit of money. I've, I was working in a job last five years. Should I hit North Indian, Chinese, South Indian, or chaat, chicken biryani, sweet?

    8. ZKZorawar Kalra2:24:00

       From a popularity perspective?

    9. NKNikhil Kamath2:24:01

       From, from a success, odds of success perspective.

    10. ZKZorawar Kalra2:24:04

        Here's the... The, the double-edged sword here, I think, is that though cuisines like North Indian and biryani might be more popular than, say, a burger and pizza, pizzas are now equally popular. The problem also remains that there's a lot more competition-

    11. NKNikhil Kamath2:24:17

        Mm

    12. ZKZorawar Kalra2:24:17

        ... a lot more players in these fields.

    13. NKNikhil Kamath2:24:19

        Mm.

    14. ZKZorawar Kalra2:24:19

        So it's hard to say. We've seen, for example, a tougher challenge selling pizzas than burgers, whereas the demand for pizzas are far more than burgers in India. It's like, literally like our dinner and our snack and our lunch.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath2:24:33

        Mm.

    16. ZKZorawar Kalra2:24:34

        Pizzas has reached that.

    17. NKNikhil Kamath2:24:35

        Mm.

    18. ZKZorawar Kalra2:24:36

        There are fewer burger places, and as a result-

    19. NKNikhil Kamath2:24:39

        Mm

    20. ZKZorawar Kalra2:24:39

        ... if you can make a difference, make a better product-

    21. NKNikhil Kamath2:24:41

        Mm

    22. ZKZorawar Kalra2:24:41

        ... you can stand out. And the competition is lower, supply is lower, of rest- from the restaurant side. Whereas in pizzas, you're competing with the big boys. And although, you know, Domino's, uh, is, is the biggest of them all, you have Burger King and you have McDonald's. But I just think that it's not just the cuisine itself, it's also how many people are playing that game at that time.

    23. RARiyaaz Amlani2:25:02

        It's a, it's a demand-supply game, depending on which region you're operating in. There are certain, there are certain areas where there's a certain demand for... Like, for example, Mexican is not sought after-

    24. ZKZorawar Kalra2:25:13

        Mm

    25. RARiyaaz Amlani2:25:13

        ... in all regions. [chuckles]

    26. NKNikhil Kamath2:25:16

        [chuckles]

    27. RARiyaaz Amlani2:25:17

        No, I'm... It's fair. Like, you know, there, there's, there are some areas where, you know, the, there will be no demand for, uh, a eight hundred rupee burger. There's some demand, where the demand for a eight hundred rupee burger will outstrip that. So it is strategic. You have... I can't give you one answer for the whole market. It depends on which market you're thinking about operating in. That's where you got to see what is being underserved and what is being... If you're thinking about scale, it's a different issue. But if you're starting off, I think you're very well placed by finding out what, what is the demand. And, uh, the aggregators-

    28. ZKZorawar Kalra2:25:50

        How do you find?

    29. RARiyaaz Amlani2:25:50

        ... are very happy to share this information with you.

    30. ZKZorawar Kalra2:25:52

        Yeah?
42. 2:27:50 – 2:29:30

    Cracking Supply Chain & Location

    1. SPSpeaker2:27:51

       Supply chain, am I missing anything? Is there a way to negotiate efficiencies in the supply chain to reduce the cost of goods? Where do you buy supplies from as a restaurant owner?

    2. ZKZorawar Kalra2:28:02

       Multiple vendors. All of us rely on multi- HyperPure has been started by Zomato-

    3. SPSpeaker2:28:07

       Mm

    4. ZKZorawar Kalra2:28:07

       ... that is trying to, you know-

    5. SPSpeaker2:28:08

       Mm

    6. ZKZorawar Kalra2:28:09

       ... become a platform. But at this point in time, the vast majority of restaurants around the country are buying from individual vendors, that they've had relationships for years, and it's a good thing. You should encourage this local farmer, local vendor. These guys, the meat supplier, the local butcher, the local farmer, the local vegetable guy, even though he's a consolidator, you know? He goes to the mandi every morning, picks up the stuff, does that effort, does that value add, and then gives it to you.

    7. SPSpeaker2:28:35

       Mm.

    8. ZKZorawar Kalra2:28:36

       I think that should be supported, but there are now alternatives. There are now larger platforms like HyperPure, that are providing a platform.

    9. SPSpeaker2:28:43

       And you, Pooja?

    10. PDPooja Dhingra2:28:45

        We also use HyperPure now for our basic groceries, and then we have-

    11. SPSpeaker2:28:48

        Why is that? Is it quality? Is it cost? Why?

    12. PDPooja Dhingra2:28:51

        Convenience.

    13. ZKZorawar Kalra2:28:53

        Single vendor for many things.

    14. SPSpeaker2:28:54

        Mm. Do you get credit?

    15. ZKZorawar Kalra2:28:57

        Yeah, you get.

    16. PDPooja Dhingra2:28:57

        Yes, but not a lot.

    17. ZKZorawar Kalra2:29:00

        But you get better credit from the [chuckles] individual-

    18. PDPooja Dhingra2:29:03

        Yeah, individuals

    19. ZKZorawar Kalra2:29:03

        ... vendors. And also, remember, there's a relationship thing. I think there's-

    20. RARiyaaz Amlani2:29:05

        One hand you're saying support the local guy, and the other hand we're going by-

    21. PDPooja Dhingra2:29:09

        No, we do, we do a mix of both.

    22. SPSpeaker2:29:10

        But what percentage?

    23. RARiyaaz Amlani2:29:11

        Oh, well-

    24. SPSpeaker2:29:11

        A small percentage.

    25. RARiyaaz Amlani2:29:13

        How much?

    26. SPSpeaker2:29:13

        Like a fraction.

    27. RARiyaaz Amlani2:29:14

        How much?

    28. SPSpeaker2:29:14

        A fraction.

    29. RARiyaaz Amlani2:29:15

        Okay.

    30. SPSpeaker2:29:16

        Fraction is in single digits percentage.
43. 2:29:30 – 2:34:40

    Navigating Chef Relationships

    1. SPSpeaker2:29:30

       platform. Again, I don't want to get dependent also on one large player, right? I want to have my... You know, these, these people... For example, the, the red meat, the goat that I get in for the NCR region comes from one small butcher, who used to first supply to my house. I helped him build capacity. I actually said, "Listen, I'm guaranteeing you this much purchase. Can you please start producing more for me?" And he built a system where now he's actually supplying to others.

    2. PDPooja Dhingra2:29:55

       Mm.

    3. SPSpeaker2:29:55

       Main points one needs to keep in mind while opening a restaurant. One big question: location. How do you guys-

    4. PDPooja Dhingra2:30:02

       Location, location

    5. SPSpeaker2:30:02

       ... narrow down on location? Because you've all said, "Location, location, location." How do you... What do you use individually to figure out the location?

    6. ZKZorawar Kalra2:30:10

       I think all of us will have, uh, some similar points and some overlaps. Um, I, I'm a little bit old school in this sense. When it comes to a restaurant location, a physical, offline restaurant location, I would like to visit at least once or multiple times, if possible, and go with the gut. I do rely on data, but like I said, the data is fairly, uh... you know, it's, it's not really that accurate, and it might be stale. It might be stale data that you're getting from these agencies. You should go and see other restaurants in the area, gauge-

    7. SPSpeaker2:30:45

       Go sit in other restaurants already.

    8. ZKZorawar Kalra2:30:46

       Yeah, absolutely.

    9. SPSpeaker2:30:47

       Mm.

    10. ZKZorawar Kalra2:30:47

        That's, that's what- that's how you do a site survey.

    11. SPSpeaker2:30:49

        Yeah.

    12. ZKZorawar Kalra2:30:49

        A site survey is a two-day exercise.

    13. PDPooja Dhingra2:30:51

        Yeah.

    14. ZKZorawar Kalra2:30:51

        It's not usually a one... Because you're going to invest five, six, two, three, five, six crore rupees into a restaurant, you should at least give it two days.

    15. SPSpeaker2:30:59

        Yeah.

    16. ZKZorawar Kalra2:30:59

        Makes logical sense. Sit there, put the time in.

    17. SPSpeaker2:31:02

        Mm.

    18. ZKZorawar Kalra2:31:03

        And I don't think, uh, even though I have a great business development team and people I really trust, uh, and, and, and sometimes, especially for overseas locations, I'm not able to visit. I think it's important, if you, especially if you're starting out-

    19. SPSpeaker2:31:16

        Mm

    20. ZKZorawar Kalra2:31:16

        ... to spend that time-

    21. SPSpeaker2:31:17

        And yeah

    22. ZKZorawar Kalra2:31:17

        ... and focus on that.

    23. PDPooja Dhingra2:31:19

        For us, for me, at l- at least for Bombay, it's been... 'Cause I know the city, I kind of know, um, the pulse of it. I know where the product will really sell. But what we've been doing recently is actually using the cloud kitchen model to kind of understand a, a, a neighborhood. So, for example, we started a cloud kitchen in Juhu for six months, and we saw that that was really successful, and we said, "Okay, this market is successful. Let's open a store here," and we opened a store there. So we're kind of using that and seeing, okay, we're doing Thane now.

    24. RARiyaaz Amlani2:31:47

        That's a very good way of doing it.

    25. ZKZorawar Kalra2:31:48

        Backward.

    26. PDPooja Dhingra2:31:49

        Yeah.

    27. ZKZorawar Kalra2:31:49

        Very good.

    28. PDPooja Dhingra2:31:49

        We're doing Thane now, and we're saying, "Okay, Thane is doing well for us. Malad didn't do that well for us." So we're kind of testing.

    29. SPSpeaker2:31:54

        And the CapEx of a cloud kitchen is significantly lower.

    30. PDPooja Dhingra2:31:57

        Is, is lower. It's, it's, it's, it's nothing.

Episode duration: 3:23:50