Nikhil KamathEp #6 | WTF is Health? ft. Nikhil Kamath, Suniel Shetty, Nithin Kamath and Mukesh Bansal
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
130 min read · 25,551 words- 0:00 – 1:10
Intro
- SSSuniel Shetty
It's never the good that's put out. It's that controversy that's-
- NKNikhil Kamath
That's what he's looking for.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah. [laughing]
- SPSpeaker
[laughing]
- MBMukesh Bansal
You can be soft, tender, and still be extremely competitive.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Is that what you think of yourself? [laughing]
- SPSpeaker
[laughing]
- SSSuniel Shetty
[laughing]
- NKNikhil Kamath
Soft, tender, but competitive. [laughing]
- MBMukesh Bansal
The alcohol, you know, I think has been marketed all too well, especially wine is good for you kind of marketing last twenty years is absolutely bogus. There's no truth to it whatsoever.
- NKNikhil Kamath
My life is dictated less by my timings, but more by the timings of financial events happening for one.
- SSSuniel Shetty
And everybody says, "Overall health, overall health, and overall health," and-
- SPSpeaker
[laughing]
- NKNikhil Kamath
[upbeat music] Okay, guys, welcome to another episode of our podcast, which was an experiment. Uh, to begin with, I think we have three new people today. Uh, Nithin does not need to introduce himself to me, but it'll be nice if each of you can say, uh, two or three minutes about your life. None of you need an introduction. No one more than you. Like-
- MBMukesh Bansal
[chuckles]
- NKNikhil Kamath
- I think the entire world knows
- 1:10 – 4:36
Mukesh Bansal story
- NKNikhil Kamath
you.
- SPSpeaker
[chuckles]
- NKNikhil Kamath
But still, maybe two minutes, starting with Mukesh.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Okay. Hello. Thank you. Uh, happy to be here. I am Mukesh. Uh, I grew up in a small town, uh, Haridwar-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Don't, don't give us like that. [laughing]
- SPSpeaker
[laughing]
- NKNikhil Kamath
Don't give us like the school interview kind of thing.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Uh, 」「 aap batao kya bolna chahiye? [chuckles]
- SSSuniel Shetty
aap poochnhe better hai na phir.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Achcha hai na?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
To aap yeh bataiye ki aap Bangalore kab aaye? Bangalore mein, what is the most fun thing you've discovered about Bangalore? Who are your friends in Bangalore, and what do you do over weekends in Bangalore?
- MBMukesh Bansal
Wow, never thought about that [chuckles] that deeply. Bangalore, I, I came here in two thousand and seven with the aspiration of starting a startup. I was in Bay Area before and trying to do a startup for ten years, didn't work. So I figured ki chalo Silicon Valley mein bahut competitive hai, yahaan pe nahi ho raha hai, India jaake ek baar try karte hain. Came here, um, very... Uh, just the environment was amazing, you know, there was a lot of startup vibe. I think you guys are the early pioneers. You started way back, I think, you know, before two thousand and seven. But, uh, that, uh, you know, opportunity to create a startup in Bangalore in two thousand and seven was what brought me here. What I liked about Bangalore is weather. I think, you know, all of us love Bangalore weather. You know, ten months out of twelve months is, you know, in twenties, so I love that. Uh, all the lakes in Bangalore. I've always been, you know, very active, so I like going to all these lakes for walks.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Where are the lakes? Which lakes are you talking about?
- MBMukesh Bansal
Halur Lake, Kaikandre- Kaikondra Halli Lake [chuckles]
- NKNikhil Kamath
[chuckles]
- MBMukesh Bansal
- and many others I should remember name, but there are a lot-- Just nice, beautiful tracks, you know. There's two-kilometer runs, so I've had countless walks and runs and long-distance running around that. In the weekends, I... I'm a, I'm a startup person, so I end up working, unfortunately. But, uh, weekend morning, I'm generally in the gym, working out, evenings, spending time with my kids. I have always played, you know, sports, so I try to find time to play some sport, badminton, tennis. I was an avid golfer for five, six years, so there was an obsessive phase of golf, uh, mostly at Clover Greens in the south side of Bangalore. Yeah, some of the things, uh-
- NKNikhil Kamath
We all know you for Myntra.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right.
- NKNikhil Kamath
And then when you-- when we-- After that, we know you for Cult.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Tell us a bit about how Myntra came about, and then how Cult came about.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Both were kind of accidents. Uh, Myntra, we were trying to do something very niche. Early on, we used to sell this personalized T-shirt online when there was nobody online. Nobody wanted to buy personalized T-shirts, you know, definitely not online. We did that for three, four years, you know, bounced around, tried a lot of experiments, tried to-- But eventually, we stumbled into, you know, fashion as a category. Um, long story, maybe I'll cover that layer a bit later. But two thousand and eleven, we pivoted into fashion, and finally, you know, after four years of trying, we were at the right place, right time, things started to take off. Uh, went really well. I think in three, four years, we were the largest fashion retailer in the country. In twenty fourteen, merged with Flipkart. At some point, I decided to move on from Flipkart. It's been nine years doing retail for me and wanted to do something new and different. So I thought deeply about what will I enjoy doing the most, and also what I thought, you know, could be an opportunity for the future. And, uh, in twenty sixteen, I could see a lot of signs, uh, that health awareness is increasing, but there are no really good solution at scale, and that's basically started, uh, Curefit journey. Uh, we have gone through multiple things, but eventually, I think we end up building highly differentiated, unique product in Cult. Today, we are by far the largest fitness chain in the country, and I've had tremendous first-- fun, you know,
- 4:36 – 10:10
Sunil Shetty's younger days
- MBMukesh Bansal
doing that.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Super. Thank you. Anna, next?
- SSSuniel Shetty
What do you want to know?
- NKNikhil Kamath
So I-
- SSSuniel Shetty
How did I come to Bangalore? [laughing]
- SPSpeaker
[laughing]
- MBMukesh Bansal
[chuckles]
- SSSuniel Shetty
I was born in Bangalore, and then I went to Mumbai.
- NKNikhil Kamath
No, thank you, firstly, for flying down to Bangalore.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Not at all.
- NKNikhil Kamath
It's very kind. I have a few stories with Anna. Uh, I think the one time when we really connected and spoke a lot was that time in London.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Right? Like, we had met a couple of times before, but, uh, Anna's son... Can I say that?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah, yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Anna's son is dating the daughter of a friend of mine. So I was at my friend's place, having lunch, and I didn't, like, really know that they were all going to be there and that they were dating. And then comes in Anna with his son and, uh, my friend's daughter, and we hung out for a bit-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
- and we made plans, and we caught up after that and all of that. The one thing about you, which I, I should say is very, very endearing, is the way you treat this twenty to thirty-five-year age group bracket-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah
- NKNikhil Kamath
... guys and girls. I think, uh, like, amongst the people I know, whether it's Anil, there's Shetty, there's all these people who treat you as a friend, and you're able to be with them, hang out with them, and be amongst them like you belong in that group, which I think is really hard. And, uh, yeah, so start from there and tell us-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yes
- NKNikhil Kamath
- a little bit about yourself.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Thank you. Thank you for that, though. Uh, but yeah, um, I guess, uh, I do because, uh, I connect with them.
- SSSuniel Shetty
... you know, and generally for me, it's my fitness journey that helps connect. Uh, because, uh, somewhere down the line, they see dad at home, and then suddenly see me, and they believe, "Why isn't dad like this, when he can easily be like that?" You know, and that's where it starts from. So I think it's that respect for someone who's elderly, even though he's, you know, in his sixties, is where I connect. And then I like to listen, you know? And, and, and, uh, kids like you who've, who've achieved so much, there's a-- there, there's a feeling of pride every time I, I, I end up meeting you, talking to you, listening to your stories. And I believe that the-- that impossible is genuinely nothing. You know, he says he was in the valley. Everybody believes the valley is the place where, uh, you know, l- life's change and, and destinies change. And suddenly you have someone who comes in here, moves from fashion, uh, then gets into fitness, and has changed that, that journey. And I still remember when somebody told me about Cult and, uh, Mukesh taking over. I said, "This is the place to be in and the right place." And then, then comes the pandemic, does-- people don't know how to, to hold on to it, and they said, you know, "The business of gyms is over. Everything is over." But then post-pandemic, it's... wellness takes over completely. It's not just fitness, wellness. So I think for me, the-- my journey, uh, you know, connects to all this, and the youth is because I, I started off as an actor, not believing that I was going to get an opportunity. This South Indian boy that doesn't speak the language. Of course, I spo- spoke Hindi in school, but I managed to get through, you know, probably forty, forty-five out of hundred when it came to Hindi, but my diction was never very good because we spoke Tulu at home. We never spoke Hindi. Not a word of Hindi at home. So when I got into the business of cinema, thanks to my martial arts background, uh, I believed that I was going to be successful, like probably a Mr. Bachchan would. But then when the results come out, you see success at the box office, but you have a critic writing you off completely and saying you're wooden. And it-- reality hits you so hard, uh, you don't know what to do. Take a step back, uh, and then decide, you know what? The only way I can stay here is if I create an image for myself. What is my strength? Action. Work on it. But there are a lot of others who are doing action, too. Then do death-defying stunts, take that risk, let that family not know, but go every morning to do action, believing that either you're going to come back with a broken bone or you're not going to come back at all. Uh-
- NKNikhil Kamath
It's a tough job, right?
- SSSuniel Shetty
It is a very tough job. Being an action hero is a very, very tough job. I say that even today.
- NKNikhil Kamath
I think unlike all of us-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah
- NKNikhil Kamath
... where we go to work and in a way we earn a wage periodically, you guys put in all the work, and you have your result on one day. It's like writing an exam every year.
- SSSuniel Shetty
True, and other than that, people believe that it's a, it's, it's a very glamorous world.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- 10:10 – 14:34
The Zerodha story (from the elder brother)
- SPSpeaker
Okay.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yeah. Uh, I'm introdu-- Okay, so-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Let me introduce him.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. [chuckles]
- SSSuniel Shetty
Uh, what I hear about him before I came here was-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- SSSuniel Shetty
... even his eight-year-old-
- NKNikhil Kamath
[laughing]
- SSSuniel Shetty
-flips a, a packet of food and checks what the, uh, the ingredients are.
- NKNikhil Kamath
[chuckles]
- SSSuniel Shetty
How much fat, how much, uh-
- NKNikhil Kamath
[laughing]
- SSSuniel Shetty
-protein, how much what? And he's an obsessive fitness guy.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SSSuniel Shetty
You know, obsessed.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Luckily, luckily for us, me and Nithin have shared a bedroom for maybe like-
- SPSpeaker
[chuckles]
- NKNikhil Kamath
... sixteen, seventeen years of my life.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- NKNikhil Kamath
And, uh, we've eaten the same food. We've, uh, shared the same clothes. So if he's saying any [beep] about his fitness routine, [laughing] I'm, I'm here.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Uh, where do I start? Yeah, so our parent, my, my dad, I mean, our dad was in the bank, and, uh, he took us around the country. Um, we came to Bangalore in 'ninety-six. Um, I, I did my school here. I, I went to an engineering college. I went-- I took telecommunication engineering. Uh, the first year was all these common, you know, physics, chemistry, maths. The third semester, you know, the first class I went in, they were trying to teach signals and systems and all these waves, and I was like: Dude, what's happening? And that was really the last I saw of my college. [chuckles] And, you know, and, uh, uh, I got introduced to trading the markets. I started trading. Um, uh, to make the money, I did a bunch of things. I, I... you know, back in the day, I, I used to work in this, you know, this Weekender, you know, like the showrooms and et cetera. And, um, then I did multi-level marketing. So I was one of the first few guys doing multi-level marketing, and this is late nineties. Um, around two thousand and one, uh, I went bust trading. I went and joined a call center. Uh, I worked for three or four years. Nikhil is seven years younger, so he picked trading the markets like much before I did in, in terms of my age. So yeah, I think by fifteen, sixteen, he was already trading. Um-... then, uh, I worked in a call center between two thousand and one to two thousand and five, uh-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Funnily enough, we worked in the same call center, but at different times.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
I was there in two thousand and three. He quit that one in two-- in two thousand and one.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, I was, I was, uh... You know, this is twenty-four seven customer.com, you know, it's called. So I was amongst the first few guys to join this call center. Um, and then, yeah, I think Nikhil joined later.
- NKNikhil Kamath
It was a really fun place.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Terrible pay, no money, [laughing] horrible night shift.
- SPSpeaker
[laughing]
- 14:34 – 16:10
Nithin fanboy moment with Sunil Shetty
- SPSpeaker
I think around the Border time-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... I became an even bigger fan. Because, you know, until then, I was, I was like a big fan of your body.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
But then, you know, after that-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah, yeah
- SPSpeaker
... I think after that movie, it kind of, your image went from just the body to, you know-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... acting as well.
- SSSuniel Shetty
But that, that, that what's took- that took me to those first few years of... Because I had not learned my craft. I got an opportunity, I grabbed it, and then realized it's tough to stay out there.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SSSuniel Shetty
You know, and, and also, it was always that South Indian actors never made it in, uh, in, uh, Hindi cinema.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
You know, they of course, they had a great first film, second film, but after that, you never sustained. And for me, it was very important that I learn my cra- craft quickly before I was thrown out, and it's that image of an action hero that let me stay, got me films. I signed those films quickly and learned my craft during, uh, during work.
- SPSpeaker
And, and, and, and lastly, you know, just talking, I think after Amitabh Bachchan, you are like the most beautifully aging actor [chuckles] in India, you know? So I mean, I haven't... You know, like, uh, you know, uh, I was talking actually with my wife, that, you know, we were looking at Brad Pitt and George Clooney, and I was like: Dude, how well they're aging. And then, you know, then suddenly you come on the scene, like, [chuckles] you know, and this, you know, it's amazing, you know?
- SSSuniel Shetty
It's-
- SPSpeaker
Thanks, thanks for, I think... You know, for all of us, I think it's an inspiration.
- NKNikhil Kamath
You're like, you're like... See, these guys have knowledge and theory about how to be healthy. You're like the specimen, [laughing] you know?
- SPSpeaker
[laughing] Yeah, if you do what all the-
- NKNikhil Kamath
You're like Sachin Tendulkar. These guys are commentators and coaches. [laughing]
- SSSuniel Shetty
[laughing] I think it's the discipline.
- 16:10 – 20:10
Sunil Shetty Martial Arts Background
- SSSuniel Shetty
Discipline, and discipline that comes from, of course, watching, uh, your parents. My father was my biggest hero, and still is. Nine-year-old restaurant, coming into Mumbai, achieving... Of course, a lot of them came and achieved a lot because the opportunities were a lot more. But also working in places and then owning those very places, you know? So that's my biggest high. That's my Myntra, that's my, uh, uh, Cult and, uh, uh, all that, that I see l- looking at him. Uh, so of course, it, it comes from there. And, you know, South Indian families, Indians, smaller towns, we grow up watching our parents rather than, uh, listening to them. But for me, it was also martial arts. Sensei Purvis Mistry, my guru, who taught me what discipline was all about, who taught me what waking up early meant, how much you could achieve. Uh, you know, knowing your own power and not using it, how patience, how to listen. I think that's what the old format of martial arts taught me. Whereas today, it's all about go beat, beat, beat, beat, protect, fitness. Then it was about mind also, and mind over body, which is the difference, and that's why f- I always tell friends of mine, you know, especially today in this virtual world, where kids are all on the phone, anxious about things: "Send them into that real world. Let them, let them do..." When I, when I was talking to you earlier, I, I said, "Group."
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Group is because you learn to win, you learn to lose, you l- learn to... You learn to do things together as a team. So kids going out there. For me, if it's a two-year-old, I'd say send him to, if not a gym, a workout place.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Because he needs to learn that hand-eye coordination. That's gonna help him-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- SSSuniel Shetty
... to do anything in life, catch a catch like that. Otherwise, you're lost. And the minute a kid you see like this, you know he's gonna find it tough-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- SSSuniel Shetty
... when, when he moves on in life. So I think I've learned to understand the smaller things in life. I'm a good listener also.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
I listen, I take in. Even when I met you the first time-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- SSSuniel Shetty
... when you came with Amit-
- SSSuniel Shetty
... this name, the surname Kamath, everything gave me a feeling of home.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Everything gave me-- And I'm proud of what the kids achieve.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
You know, I get emotional about it because I feel, well, they are our own. And then even if it's the first time, I, I approach you like I've known you.
- SPSpeaker
Correct.
- SSSuniel Shetty
You know, and that makes the, uh, uh, things easier. So I think the simple things in life that one has done, not having a gym, but using basic equipment to, to learn to train, realizing that it's not the equipment, it's, it's the application of the mind to that muscle which gives it that result and not- nothing else.
- SPSpeaker
But how do you do that over forty years?
- SSSuniel Shetty
[sighs] I think, uh, I, I, I, I guess because, because of my passion, and I've realized that, uh... You know, like they say, that twenty-one day formula of, of, of, getting into fitness, y- first, y- you feel it, and, and then, uh, uh, uh, you know, you see it-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- SSSuniel Shetty
... and then you hear it. And the minute you start hearing it-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- SSSuniel Shetty
... it keeps you going. Now, him telling me encourages me to go back and say, "You know, let me continue doing that." Because if I can influence one kid to take up, uh, health and wellness and fitness, and then go back home and tell Dad or Mom, "Look at Dad and Mom. Uh, Dad, look at, uh, Sunil Uncle. He's sixty-two. At least try getting there." And then they start believing that, yes, that can happen. And what, what brings about that change? Food. You know, that is that biggest drug also that is being abused for anxiety. At the same time, the drug, uh, uh, uh, that is not being used as, as an antidepressant is exercise, [chuckles] and, and we're not using that, and it's, it's available. So one is being abused, and the other is not being used.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, but, but since we are talking about health,
- 20:10 – 23:30
Outside Food, Binge Drinking
- SPSpeaker
I think one of the, uh, in, in my health journey, one of the things I did wrong throughmo- most of my life was really the food, right?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Absolutely.
- SPSpeaker
I mean, while I... [lips smack] Like, you know, I think he's also been, you know, active, but I've played a lot more sport, et cetera. But as I remember, you know, like, after a two-hour basketball game, I'll go and have, like, ten watermelon juice, [chuckles] right? Not one and two, right?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Now or back in the day?
- SPSpeaker
No, back in the day-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Back
- SPSpeaker
... right. So I probably am, you know, kind of negating everything that I've done already, right? So, uh, so those learnings-- I mean, the funny thing, okay, like, when I first went to the gym, there was no, there was no access to internet, there was no access to book. And my mom somehow convinced me that eating ginger garlic helps you get muscle. [chuckles] So I used to go to the gym, come back, and eat ginger garlic, like raw ginger and garlic. [laughing]
- SSSuniel Shetty
[chuckles]
- SPSpeaker
You know, and this is, you know, uh, in the, in the late '90s, you know. So, uh... But yeah, but, but yeah, in terms of my health, I think, uh, over the, uh-- Seema, my wife, you know, she had, uh, she was diagnosed with breast cancer, you know, in 2020. And, uh, that's when I think, you know, I, I gotten serious about what goes into my body. Because, you know, a lot of research that went into it, you know, like saying, what causes cancer and, and et cetera. And then, you know, [lips smack] once I went in through the rabbit hole, I was like, you know, food is really what essentially matters, right? As in, um... So yeah, so I think, I think, you know what you rightly said, I think, uh, people don't-- You can't outrun a bad diet, right?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah, yeah.
- SPSpeaker
As in, you know. And, um, so yeah, so I, I think I'm very particular about the food today, you know, in the sense I avoid eating outside food, um, as much as possible. Uh, I used to binge drink before. Um, you know, like, every once in a while, you know, we'd all catch up and, you know, once our friends are around, you know, it starts with one drink, and then, you know, it's suddenly binge drinking. But then, you know, the, the last two, three years, all the research I've done, I mean, I think binge drink, there's nothing more harmful that you can do to your body-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Right
- SPSpeaker
... than binge drinking, right? I know. So-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Do you drink, Mukesh?
- SPSpeaker
Used to. Uh, I was a regular drinker. Never really a heavy drinker, but I was into my wine. I think I... Over a period of time, I learned to enjoy my wine, but every time I'll drink, next day, I'll pay the price. I'll have a terrible sleep. I'll wake up, you know, just feeling groggy and not up to it. I will definitely miss my workout, and whole day feel like my brain is not working.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
I'm like this, you know, compromised, you know, person, you know, just there, but not really there. And then I'll remind myself, you know, "Is it really worth it? Do I want to do it again?" Next will come by, next week will come by, next social occasion, then you start with, you know, one drink. Last year, I decided enough is enough, you know. I stopped. It's been nine months; I have not touched a drink. The intention is to not do drink, and I agree with you. In all the research I've seen, this alcohol, you know, I think has been marketed all too well, especially wine is good for you, kind of marketing-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... last twenty years, and absolutely bogus. There's no truth to it whatsoever. Alcohol, I mean, I guess I can say on this podcast, at this point, I believe alcohol is at, as bad as smoking. It's only a matter of time before, uh... I think science already caught up. There is absolutely no dispute as far as science goes, but the mainstream media and the communication has not caught up.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
I think it's a matter of time, so-
- SSSuniel Shetty
No, but there's, there's one point there, right? As in-- So the thing is,
- 23:30 – 25:47
Loneliness and Depression
- SSSuniel Shetty
apparently, most people die of loneliness and stress. I mean, that's really the bigger killer-
- SPSpeaker
Yes, true.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Mm-hmm
- SSSuniel Shetty
... than, you know, cardio or-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- SSSuniel Shetty
... you know, mental and et cetera, right? I mean, loneliness and stress. And then if a little bit of alcohol can get you over that, now the question is, is it, is it a safe enough compromise to make or not, right? Because, uh, you know, if, if a drink is a reason for you to get together with friends-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Mm-hmm
- SSSuniel Shetty
... um, can it bring down the stress, in a way, helping you in some way, right? As in-- Well, I mean, there is that school of thought as well. I mean, uh, but you need to be conscious of the fact that it's not good for you, f- you know, physically in any way.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SSSuniel Shetty
But can it somehow-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- SSSuniel Shetty
... you know, help you bring down your stress or, you know, help you get over any loneliness and-
- SPSpeaker
And maybe the key is to keep it to, you know, just one drink. The problem is the inhibition, you know, goes down so much after a fi- first drink.
- MBMukesh Bansal
... and that's when your troubles start. I mean, it's just, I think, much easier to not drink than to have just one drink and stop, right? So that's-- like, once the one becomes two or three, and that's when you know, I think you're-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Yeah
- MBMukesh Bansal
- well past solving for loneliness and social isolation and so on. [laughing]
- NKNikhil Kamath
Anna has never had a drink, no?
- SSSuniel Shetty
No, but then you're the chauffeur when you don't drink, you know, [chuckles] with, with friends, you're driving them around. I've never, I never did it.
- NKNikhil Kamath
But what was the, what was the thing in your head which made you not even want to have a sip?
- SSSuniel Shetty
I guess, like I said, my martial arts background, and then heavy drinkers at times in the family and what they go through.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Is, is that it, like somebody you saw drinking heavily?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Not necessarily impacted. T-that hasn't impacted or, you know, that's not the decision, but, but then I've seen people and behaviors change, and people change-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
- and, and running a restaurant myself, a bar myself, you know, we used to work with dad and took care of the bar, and, and I, I used to see mild, timid guys-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm
- SSSuniel Shetty
... change with, with a one drink, with two drinks, with three drinks, and a fourth drink, you know, and different personalities.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
So I think somewhere down the line, I also saw too much of that and decided, you know what? It's better to stay away. And then it became a challenge, and then people started, like I said, started appreciating your, your health. Then your career was dependent on, on, on your fitness.
- NKNikhil Kamath
See, I think
- 25:47 – 28:01
Objectives, ordering food and Mukesh's formula to fall sick
- NKNikhil Kamath
last one week, right? Like I saw so much content on fitness online-
- SSSuniel Shetty
And health.
- NKNikhil Kamath
- the one thing I realized is, everybody has an opinion, and generally-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah
- NKNikhil Kamath
... it's a different opinion. So the intent of doing this today, in a way, was, let's have one concise hour where each of you guys-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Mm
- NKNikhil Kamath
... through all the experience, you've written a book-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Mm
- NKNikhil Kamath
- which I'm going to read, but I saw bits of it. It looks brilliant. And sorry about pulling your leg earlier. [laughing] I will make it up to you before the end of it. So maybe what we can do is go in a sequence.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Sure.
- NKNikhil Kamath
We'll start from top priority, one each.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right.
- NKNikhil Kamath
And then we'll go to the second.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Okay.
- NKNikhil Kamath
And then at the end of it, we'll try and arrive at a consensus.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right.
- NKNikhil Kamath
We'll make a list of eight to ten things that anybody can do-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right
- NKNikhil Kamath
... with access to nothing.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Sure.
- NKNikhil Kamath
But following it for one hour a day-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah
- NKNikhil Kamath
... and fitting those ten things in-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah
- NKNikhil Kamath
- will help everybody. Okay?
- MBMukesh Bansal
I'm going to-- Huh, before you go there-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Uh, uh.
- MBMukesh Bansal
- I just want to go back to, you know, the, what we were discussing-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Yeah
- MBMukesh Bansal
... 'cause, yeah, there's a pattern-
- 28:01 – 32:00
Important Things to kickstart your Health Journey
- MBMukesh Bansal
prompt, I think for me, number one thing is sleep. If I have to do only one thing for fit-- general health, I'll optimize seven to eight hours sleep. I think for me, you know, that takes the cake. I personally sleep very early. I go to bed by nine and get up around five or so. Yeah, but I think it doesn't matter, you know. I think as long as you optimize for that seven to eight hours, I think it does wonders to everything else. You can have incredible next sixteen hours, where you can push yourself to the hilt, whether it's work or workout or whatever your calling is, right? But I think, and this I've arrived at after a long period of time. I mean, I've done all kind of things, you know, good and bad, you know, to experiment with myself. But now I feel both from personal experience, from everything I understand about science of sleep, for me, it is, it is at the top of the list.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Right. Anna?
- SSSuniel Shetty
For me, I think it's consistency.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
I have to do it consistently. I have to put in five to six hours, days in a week where I do it. It might vary depending on the kind of work that I'm doing, how much, and consistency with focus. And focus when it-- when I talk about fitness and health, it's about, I don't care about equipment, I don't care about anything. I care about: what muscle am I training? How much time am I going to give, give it for it to recover?
- NKNikhil Kamath
So would you say consistency in working out every day?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Working out every day.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Do you work out seven days a week?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Six days a week, following a routine. If I miss a day during the week, I will not cheat on my Sunday. For me, Sunday means give everything up, don't do anything. I'm probably the laziest. I won't even pick up a glass. I'd expect, uh-
- NKNikhil Kamath
[laughing]
- SSSuniel Shetty
... my children, my wife to feed me and do everything. But that's how lazy I am on a Sunday-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Yeah
- SSSuniel Shetty
... but it works brilliantly because it helps me recoup.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
For each individual, it's different. What works for me might not work for you. You know, and that's why you go on, on, on the net, and suddenly you have five million people giving you gyaan at the age of twenty. It's very easy to do that.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
But I'd like to see that journey, uh, you know, till the end of the day, till, till nobody supporting you. When you're, when, when, when you need it, uh, uh, most, you should need support. You know, why seventy or sixty a number, where they say senior citizen? What do you mean by that when it comes to health? Is, is-- That's, that's why consistency.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Absolutely.
- MBMukesh Bansal
... Yep. I mean-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Top of the list.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Top of the list, yeah. I think it's food for sure. And even for sleep, what I've realized is, my sleep quality is based on what I'm consuming.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- MBMukesh Bansal
So if I had to really put something right on top-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Right
- MBMukesh Bansal
... it's food. But what I've realized is, my food choices are based on [chuckles] my workout choices. So, you know, if I've not done workout first thing in the morning, I tend to end up picking up bad food, which in turn ends up messing up my sleep. So it's kind of interconnected. So-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Absolutely.
- MBMukesh Bansal
If-- but if I had to put right on top, it would be food, but unfortunately, I can't... You know, I'm not disciplined enough to constantly keep making the right food choices, unless I have, like, a hack in terms of getting a workout first thing in the morning.
- NKNikhil Kamath
But even if you're not making the choice, if your endeavor is to put that on top, you can say it.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right. Yeah. So, yeah, so it's, it's-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Food.
- 32:00 – 34:00
Nikhil's schedule as a trader
- MBMukesh Bansal
of time on your side, fortunately. [chuckles]
- NKNikhil Kamath
Yeah, but I'm trying. It just doesn't fit into my, like, my entire schedule. If I have to, like, work out in the evening, I prefer to go to the gym when there's nobody in the gym. And if I end up going at 6:00 p.m., there will be people, but I have to go beyond 8:30 p.m., 9:00 p.m. There's a bunch of tweaks which I have to do, which I don't know if the pros weigh the cons.
- MBMukesh Bansal
I mean, the crazy bit is, you know, uh, like he trades the market, right? Uh, there is this whole news around stock markets being extended till 11:30.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm. [chuckles]
- MBMukesh Bansal
You know, if that were to happen, you know, guess what's going to happen to your sleep?
- NKNikhil Kamath
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
[laughing]
- NKNikhil Kamath
You know, like, since the day I started trading, I'm talking like seventeen, eighteen years.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right.
- NKNikhil Kamath
I think I was sick once, sick enough not to trade, and I was in the hospital for ten days or something. I'm talking... What was that? Twelve, thirteen years ago?
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Some- something like that. Twelve, thirteen years ago-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right
- NKNikhil Kamath
... I had a liver problem. I was in the hospital for-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah
- NKNikhil Kamath
... a fortnight, maybe.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right.
- NKNikhil Kamath
But outside of that, I've not missed a single day trading, so I've not had a single day off in pretty much eighteen years outside of that.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Mm-hmm.
- NKNikhil Kamath
So it's more than a job for me, it is also an addiction.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right.
- NKNikhil Kamath
It's also a way of life, where [clears throat] my life is dictated less by my timings, but more by the timings of-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Mm, right
- NKNikhil Kamath
... financial events happening in stock markets.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah, and I think, you know, having that deep passion for something is equally or even more important, right? You know, we all need good health-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm
- MBMukesh Bansal
... so that we can pursue our dreams, our passion, right? So that's, you know, very, very important. You know, health ultimately has to service, you know-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Yeah
- MBMukesh Bansal
... some end.
- NKNikhil Kamath
I, I think that line between passion and addiction is very thin. [laughing]
- 34:00 – 35:08
How crucial is all-day movement?
- MBMukesh Bansal
say general movement, and movement throughout the day, you know?
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- MBMukesh Bansal
It just... We don't need to sit, you know?
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- MBMukesh Bansal
I mean, I work out in the morning, but I think last few years, I've adopted this habit, and it started in pandemic. I just stand in the meeting. So in the conference room, there are ten of us, and I'll be sitting in that corner, and while I'm sitting, you know, I don't think camera can demonstrate, but, you know, I will keep... I'll stretch my leg, I'll do this, I'll do this, you know, just ho- uh, I call it an all-day movement. For me, and even people who don't work out, there are plenty of opportunity, you know, just go out for a small stroll in the sun, you know, stand for some time. During pandemic, and I had this, you know, treadmill with the iPad on top, and I'm walking on the treadmill and doing Zoom calls with the people, and before you know it, you're getting your fifteen, twenty thousand steps. So any kind of movement, I think our bodies are designed to move. Just being, you know, sedentary, especially in an office job, sitting on a chair all day, I think it's terrible. I mean, the b- body is not designed, you know, for that kind of function.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Can I ask you another question?
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Like, the two of us are largely one-trick ponies. Uh, I have been trading all my life. He's been in the f- finance side business all his life. We've been doing similar things.
- 35:08 – 37:40
Mukesh's startup journey
- NKNikhil Kamath
You've had a much more eclectic, esoteric life in a way. You did e-commerce, and then suddenly-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah
- NKNikhil Kamath
... switched to health.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
And then before that, you were in the US trying to build a startup.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right.
- NKNikhil Kamath
I think that is incredibly more impressive because if you were to tell me today, do something else, which is new altogether, it would scare me, and I'm guessing it would scare you, too. What were the trigger points which made you move from the Valley-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Mm
- NKNikhil Kamath
... to Myntra, which was again a really large company-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah
- NKNikhil Kamath
... to the whole fitness journey, and now the food and everything else?
- MBMukesh Bansal
See, I'm glad you see it that way. I think everything has, you know, two side of coin. I definitely will not call you guys one-trick pony. I think, you know, your own business has evolved dramatically.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- MBMukesh Bansal
And I have some ringside view, because as an investor in Grow, you know, I've seen this industry evolve last few years. So I think, you know, your own business and the product has evolved. I think almost in every business goes through reinvention, and I think you've want to build a cathedral, you know. It takes twenty, thirty, forty years, right? So I have probably way more respect for that, versus doing something, you know, every five to seven years. My journey ended up being that because of variety. All of it is not planned. It's not like, you know, I had a game plan in mind, and I started and planned out that way, right? I mean, things happen. I think, uh, I had a healthy risk appetite. I mean, so did you guys, I guess, you know, early on. At some point, you know, I-- when I started to feel very comfortable, I also started to get jittery-... I think call it, you know, looking for an adventure or wanting to learn something new, and I start to almost, you know, fortunately, it's not as bad as in looking for next shiny thing, but I get a huge kick out of, you know, trying to do something new from scratch. But, you know, I've been, you know, been a startup guy all my life. You know, I worked for four startups in Silicon Valley, then I was part of Myntra journey, Curefit journey. I worked closely with the two startups the last five years, First Grow and the Skyroot, which are, you know, they're building rockets. There is a first successful launch last year. So kind of understand startup world, and, uh, I think I keep feeling that tug, and I'm now thinking: How can I do more of that? You know, what are the other companies that I can build or co-build with somebody else? And what could be a method to still do it systematically, where you s- you know, build a strong foundation, you design it for the long term, but, uh, what is the right method to that? I'm exploring. Hopefully, in, you know, few months or, or end of this year, I'll have better clarity on that. Okay. Anna?
- SSSuniel Shetty
I think for me, uh, after consistency is probably food. You know, food plays a very, very important-
- 37:40 – 43:00
Suniel Shettys diet
- MBMukesh Bansal
Can you just tell us, like, your diet? Because this is some-- this is a mystery we all need to kind of solve together.
- SSSuniel Shetty
You know, for me, it, it, it's the quantifying of the food. Normally, for me, at home, it's a, uh, it's, it's a four-egg, uh, egg white because I don't like the yellow.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Do you, do you care for things like allergy tests and not eat what you are allergic to?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Of course, I do. Of course, I do.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Okay.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Because, uh, like Mukesh said, how he realized what works for him doesn't work for me, you know? Uh, my gut was an issue in the sense I used to get headaches. By the end of the evening, I realized I used to get light headaches, and that was because of the gut issue. And I realized that the gut was the cause of all the problems there was. There was something that wasn't suiting me. And over a period of time, I learned, you know, as, as things improved here, and we started getting better allergy tests and more precise and accurate, I realized that gluten is something that never worked for me, probably because I came from a background that, that spoke about rice more than wheat, you know? And, uh, I had to go back to my roots, a- and, and that, that brought about a big change. Uh, dairy, dairy doesn't suit me too much, uh, more so when, uh, when, when you talk about, uh, the casein and, uh, uh, you know, other things i, in, in the product. So it... Like, uh, gluten, uh, dairy products was, uh, were a problem because lactose was the problem. So when I switched to, uh, lactose-free milk, it worked for me in small quantities. So for me, food is, is probably three or four eggs in the morning, uh, typical, uh, gluten-free toast or bread that, that I have. Again, it's quantified. Every-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Mm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
I quantify my food.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Mm-hmm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
I make sure, uh, what my activity for the week is, and then accordingly, uh, play with, with, with the quantity.
- MBMukesh Bansal
And how much protein do you take as a factor to your weight?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Uh, see, I, I go into the gram factor, uh, right now. Uh, it, it, it could be probably four eggs in the morning, maybe one hundred and fifty to two hundred grams, depending on fish or, or, or chicken that I eat-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Mm
- SSSuniel Shetty
... and another hundred and fifty to two hundred grams in the evening. You know, back into the right kind of fats, and, and even if I talk about grams in, in, in, in greens, it's probably two hundred and two hundred. So you're looking at sixteen hundred, seventeen hundred calories or, or going up to nineteen hundred when I would need to load it with carbs. You know, so I'd load it more with rice because rice suits me very well.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Then for me, the quantity of sa- uh, salt that goes into it, or the quantity of sugar that I consume through the day would probably-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Do you consume sugar at all?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yes, I do, because I don't believe in anything else. I don't believe in the substitute for sugar.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Mm-hmm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Uh, for me, it's either my fruit or my sugar. I like a cup of tea because it gives me the right... You know, it makes me feel good.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Mm-hmm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Uh, one cup in the morning and one cup in the evening, but I-- Once again, it's probably five to six grams of sugar. It's like no sugar at all, but still gets, get, gets me going, and what I like to do, I continue to do because it works for me. Quantity of salt, it's never, uh, salt in the food. I'd rather have it sprinkled on top. You know, no pink salt for me. Regular salt for me-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Mm-hmm
- SSSuniel Shetty
... is, i- is, is what suits me. So this is how I break it up, and, uh, I work with a nutritionist. I work with him because I, I want to understand it better. That's not something I have mastered it, but being able to keep weight in check, being able to keep the inch in check, to be able to keep the muscle in check, is what-- why I, I sit and consult and discuss with them week on week, you know? And, and, and if there is a particular craving, then I ask for that. You know, I like-- love my fruit. I love my dessert, and if you tell me no dessert after food-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Mm
- SSSuniel Shetty
... I'd go crazy. So but then I've learned my blend of, of, uh, lactose-free yogurt.
- MBMukesh Bansal
But, but your portions are really small, I'm guessing.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah, my por- portions are controlled. Uh, I'd have fruit of the season mixed with the, with yogurt and, and, and created in such a way that when frozen, it ta- it, it tastes like frozen yogurt or, uh, or ice cream, and my job is done. So my craving doesn't, uh, uh, come in. And then generally, seven o'clock, I finish dinner, uh, and make sure my gut is, gut is right, because then I need, like he says, you know, he needs to walk after he's eaten-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Mm
- SSSuniel Shetty
... or he's had a drink. I feel I need, I need to be active after dinner. Could be for half an hour, but I'd walk around. I'd stand, like Mukesh says, "I'll always walk up the stairs." I'd, I'd try and avoid the lift when it comes to work. On the set, I'm, I'm walking. You'll rarely see me sit, you know? And it's helped me. I don't know how much it's helping me, but-... to date, it's helped me a hell of a lot. It's helped me, uh, stay fit and, uh, you know, my off and on pranayams, even if it's thrice a week or, or four times a week, even if it's in the evening, I do my half an hour breathing. That, that keeps me light in the head and-
- 43:00 – 49:06
Suniel Shettys Kids & The Business of Films
- NKNikhil Kamath
Your idea to send-- your idea to nudge the kids to be actors?
- SSSuniel Shetty
No, not at all, uh, their decision. As a matter of fact, uh, uh, we'd gone to Atlanta, to Emory, uh, for Tia, and she saw the college, everything done, loved it, got admission. On our way back, she tells me at the airport, "You know, Baba, I'm not really happy doing, uh, this." I said, "What do you want to do?"
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
She says, "I want to be in the, in the business of films and entertainment."
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
And I said, "Are you sure about it?" And she says, "Yes." I said, "You know what? It's a lovely place, but baby, will you be able to accept failure? Is something that you need to be ready about-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
-because that's very stressful." That Friday kills me every time. If I have a bad gut, it's that Friday that gives me the bad gut-
- NKNikhil Kamath
[chuckles] Yeah.
- SSSuniel Shetty
-not my food.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Yeah, I-
- SSSuniel Shetty
You know, it's the anxiety that, uh, that kills me and nothing else, because e- the world is judging me. I've worked a year for-- to create something with a team, [snaps fingers] and somebody sits there in the first ten minutes and says, "You know, [beep] !" And that's what goes viral.
- NKNikhil Kamath
[chuckles]
- SSSuniel Shetty
And that's what works, because that's what people would like to, to spread. So that's the only thing I tell the kids, "If you're ready to take failure, and you don't look at it as failure, you look at it as a learning-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
-or you say, 'You know what? I tried something, I failed,' uh, take it up." Because i- if you fail, nobody let you go. The media will pounce on you, people will pounce on you because the world is looking at you. You know, you fail in business, you try something else, you try something else, uh, but, uh, not here. So that's the only thing.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Yeah. I think that's the thing I was alleviating to earlier.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Like, in business, in a job, we guys kind of like, have some kind of a say in the result.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Right.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Right? Like, uh, here, there's no science.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
The reason why something works-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Mm.
- NKNikhil Kamath
-and something does not, nobody knows.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Right.
- NKNikhil Kamath
And unlike a company being judged-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Mm.
- NKNikhil Kamath
-I think an individual being judged-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Right
- 49:06 – 52:36
Circadian Rhythm, Activity Trackers in a Corporate Life
- NKNikhil Kamath
So I'm trying to change my life in such a manner where, uh, now I'm waking up in the morning and sitting in the sun and reading a book for half an hour-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- NKNikhil Kamath
... because [laughing] this is a novelty to me, right? I didn't know what getting light into your eyes every morning does for your circadian rhythm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Right.
- NKNikhil Kamath
I still don't get it, but I'm trying it.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- NKNikhil Kamath
I don't know if it works yet.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- NKNikhil Kamath
But if you guys have tried it for longer-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, I mean, I've experimented with every single thing.
- NKNikhil Kamath
So I want things like that.
- SPSpeaker
Sure.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Get light in the morning for twenty minutes.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. No, I think that, yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Eat this food to increase testosterone, sleep for eight hours. I want ten things like that.
- SPSpeaker
Got it. Okay, so, so my first was get workout first thing in the morning, uh, food, um, and third thing is, I think health can't be looked at as a eighty, ninety minute allocation per day.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Right.
- SPSpeaker
I think it's a, it's a, it's a twenty-four seven.
- NKNikhil Kamath
I know, I know.
- SPSpeaker
But, but what I'm saying is, my third thing would be what Mukesh said earlier, constantly move through the day. Like, I have set on my, you know, on my watch, like a timer for every hour. It buzzes, so I get up and I do something.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Do you still need to do that if you're working out for one hour a day?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SSSuniel Shetty
I think you absolutely should. I think it just-
- SPSpeaker
Because, you know, like, you know, I had, like, really bad shoulder problem, you know, the... When COVID first hit, right, and sitting, I mean, you are having this problem, right?
- NKNikhil Kamath
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
As in, you know, so because you're constantly looking at the monitor, you're just typing. You know, and I have this habit of kind of leaning towards my left. My entire left shoulder, you know, for like-- And then the only fix I did was that every one hour, get up, and otherwise, you know, you'll be in this posture for two, three hours. You will not even feel the stress you're putting on your body. Right, so-
- NKNikhil Kamath
I do that. My back is screwed. So every month I go to a chiropractor, but I have like cupping-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- NKNikhil Kamath
... needling, physiotherapy, all of that. Because by virtue of sitting like this-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- 52:36 – 59:04
Testosterone, Hormones & Health Check-Ups
- NKNikhil Kamath
do about testosterone?
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- NKNikhil Kamath
I think this is a modern-day man problem, where, uh, testosterone levels are low, cortisol is high, and because of that, it becomes significantly harder to put on muscle-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- NKNikhil Kamath
... and also sleep. So just as a thought-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- NKNikhil Kamath
... in my research online, people are talking about things like L-arginine, that, uh, that ali, that tongkat ali. What is that thing?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Tongkat Ali.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Tongkat Ali.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Stuff like that. These are not jabbing testosterone into your body-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- NKNikhil Kamath
... but these are natural herbs which could increase the odds of your body throwing out testosterone or developing testosterone. What do you think about supplements like this? Do you think this is such a big problem that most people need to supplement for this? Also, like, none of us are doctors, this is not medical advice. [laughing] Like, full disclosure-
- SPSpeaker
[chuckles]
- NKNikhil Kamath
... like always, like, go consult your doctor. But what do you think of testosterone as a problem, and what are the solutions you guys have tried? What has worked, what has not?
- SPSpeaker
I mean, so what you spoke about are adaptogens, right? So your ashwagandha, ginseng, tongkat ali, Fadogia, Fadogia agrestis. Uh-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Have you tried them?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, I've, I've, I've experimented with every single one of them. Uh-
- NKNikhil Kamath
And has the number gone up?
- SPSpeaker
No, it hasn't.
- NKNikhil Kamath
No?
- SPSpeaker
No, it hasn't.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Not at all?
- SPSpeaker
No.
- NKNikhil Kamath
So we both-- funny story, but we both went to a doctor and did, like, a full body checkup.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- NKNikhil Kamath
And like small kids, we put both our reports next to each other, and we compared [laughing] each metric.
- SSSuniel Shetty
[laughing]
- SPSpeaker
[laughing]
- 59:04 – 1:03:29
Quality of Muscle and Life at 90
- SPSpeaker
things about quality of muscle, right? What I've realized is, the younger you start, like, you know, this whole trying to get muscle on your body once you're in your thirties and forties is so much more harder.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Haven't we been trying for, like, twenty years each?
- SPSpeaker
No, no, I'm saying consistently.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Consistently.
- SPSpeaker
You know, other day-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah, yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Other day, I met the doctor-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... and he said-
- NKNikhil Kamath
The endocrinologist.
- SPSpeaker
No, no, uh, another doctor, you know.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
So I'd-- like, I'd gone to a s- sports doctor, because from joints and et cetera. So I... He asked me: "How long you've been working out?" I said, uh, "For twenty-plus years, but consistently over the last two to three years." He said: "No, no, forget the twenty years. [chuckles] Tell me consistently. All that matters is that two years of consistent work." Uh, because, you know, as kids, I think, you know, when you work out, you, you know, you put on muscle that stays on you for longer, right? Even when you grow old.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Mus- muscle memory, you know-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- SSSuniel Shetty
... and that's the advantage probably I've had as, as to going forward, the next generation might not have, might have, is the freehand stuff that we did.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Because the work- the equipment was not there. There were basic dumbbells. I grew up on a pull-up bar.
- NKNikhil Kamath
What, what age did you start working?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Oh, I started martial arts when I was twelve and thirteen, and, you know, I wanted to play cricket and I wanted to get stronger. I met Vivian Richards, and he says, "You know, you need to do weights." But I was very conscious of the fact then, and they said overhead weights means you won't grow, gymnastics means you won't grow.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
You know, and that stayed with me, and so I took up, uh... They said-- I took up the body weights, so I did a lot of pull-ups.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
And, uh, everything for me was the monkey bar. Everything for me was the monkey bar in school. And, [clattering] uh, even when I started hitting the gym, which was a very small gym, probably two hundred square feet, and it had one little machine there, but it had a beautiful pull-up bar. And I still remember doing two hundred to three hundred, uh, pull-ups- [chuckles]
- NKNikhil Kamath
... every session.
- SPSpeaker
That's crazy.
- SSSuniel Shetty
You know, so I do something, then I'd want... For me, rest was-
- MBMukesh Bansal
How many sets?
- NKNithin Kamath
... it could be, uh, 50 sets, 100 sets, that didn't matter.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- 1:03:29 – 1:05:35
Heat and Cold Therapy
- NKNithin Kamath
and cold plunges, and cryotherapy?
- SPSpeaker
I'm personally a big fan for both. I think both heat therapy and cold therapy of any kind. I-
- NKNithin Kamath
You were speaking to us the last time you came here, and you were saying you have a cryo machine, you have-
- SPSpeaker
I have a, yeah, this tub which, uh, you know, keeps the water at about, you know, temperature you preset. I generally keep it around 10 degrees, and once or twice a week, you know, I will do three, four set of one minute each. But that's, you know... Yeah, that's, that's cold therapy. I think overall, I think both cold and heat, as I understand, they work in a different manner, but most of it boils down to, you know, this whole idea of controlled stress.
- NKNithin Kamath
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
And when you put your body into a managed, controlled stress situation, then body reacts to that. Body reacts to cold in certain way, body reacts to, you know, heat in a certain way. And I- don't ask me about the actual mechanism, how and why it works, but generally helps tremendously with recovery-
- NKNithin Kamath
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... and also boosts immunity, assum- assuming you're doing everything else also, which are more fundamental than this. But I've been doing, you know, cold-
- NKNithin Kamath
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... uh, treatment and it works.
- NKNithin Kamath
Do you do it? Sauna or cold plunge? ... I actually
- 1:05:35 – 1:09:16
A Balanced Diet - what is it?
- NKNithin Kamath
have, so I have an interesting story to tell.
- SPSpeaker
But you said you're vegetarian.
- NKNithin Kamath
I am now vegetarian.
- SPSpeaker
Uh.
- NKNithin Kamath
I was also vegetarian when I grew up.
- SPSpeaker
Uh.
- NKNithin Kamath
But so in my 20s, you know, I got into this bodybuilding. This was in 2000, you know, early 2000s. And at that time, the whole bodybuilding, you know, concept was eat every three hours, and you need to have protein every meal.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- NKNithin Kamath
And as a vegetarian, you know, beyond a certain point, how much, you know, whey protein and casein also used to be quite popular at that time. But even, you know, um, between my trainer and nutritionist, we felt even that is not enough, so I forced myself to eat meat. I tried pretty much everything, you know. Couldn't get used to it, like I just never could not... I, uh, I tried for almost a year, literally forced myself to eat because I thought that, you know, I need to have so much protein, you know, for per- this much protein per body, uh, weight, and so on. But at some point, you know, I just realized that's not for me. Uh, I continue to take whey protein, et cetera, but over a period of time, I realized, uh, I think general principle of food are very simple. I think they are, you know-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- NKNithin Kamath
... we have made it very complicated.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- NKNithin Kamath
You need to consume all three macronutrients. I think fat was, you know, vilified for many decades, and I think that caused a lot of harm. You know, that enabled sugar to become big part of in people's life. But these days, I think what the science is and what I also believe is, as much as 20, 25%, 30% of, you know, calories in your food can come from fat.
- SPSpeaker
Fat.
- NKNithin Kamath
Almost any fat, you know?
- SPSpeaker
True.
- NKNithin Kamath
Any combination of, you know, monounsaturated, polyunsaturated, saturated-
- SPSpeaker
So if you're vegetarian, what is that fat?
- MBMukesh Bansal
... ghee, coconut oil, olive oil, all kind of nuts, uh, avocado-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah.
- MBMukesh Bansal
- the, you know, plenty of choices. So that, you know, healthy amount of protein for sure, and by and large, complex carbs, you know, as long as-- I think carbs, you need carbs also. I, I'm definitely not a proponent of going out of your way to avoid carbs. You need to control it. Carbs should not be eighty percent of your calories, but can easily be, you know, thirty, forty percent of calories, and I think they're absolutely fine.
- SSSuniel Shetty
I think it's about staying-- uh, you want to stay lean, you want to bulk up, it's about muscle, then the balance of carb might shift a little bit, uh-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right
- SSSuniel Shetty
... you know, more than protein. But if you want to get leaner and you want to lose weight, then, then va- vary your protein intake. But like, uh, Mukesh said, twenty, twenty-five percent fat is good enough, and it could be in the form of avocados or butter or ghee. For, for me also, it's ghee. It's always ghee.
- NKNikhil Kamath
You don't eat much carbs, right?
- SPSpeaker
No, no, I mean, the thing is, I've come to a conclusion now that, um, if anything ma- slows me down, I'll do less of it. Like, you know, whatever I'm eating, you know, after eating, if I feel shit after a while, you know, so I do less of that. So, um, but I can't stay without carbs. I mean-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... if I don't eat rice, I mean, oh, God, [chuckles] I mean, like in two days without rice-
- NKNikhil Kamath
It would be like one-third of how much meat you're consuming.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. I mean, I'm not, I'm not that particular about sizes. I mean, I, I, I know portions now, but, uh, I try to stop eating before I feel full, which I've realized is a mistake. I mean, we both have done quite a bit [chuckles] in the younger days, which is just keep stuffing yourself. So I think it's just, uh-
- 1:09:16 – 1:11:40
Fuel Your Mind
- MBMukesh Bansal
list, right?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MBMukesh Bansal
I think one of the things we should definitely talk about, and it'll be among my top four or five, is just focus on some kind of meditation.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- MBMukesh Bansal
And by that, I don't necessarily mean, you know, you have to use an app like, you know, Headspace or Calm. It's finding a ten, fifteen minutes in a day to just to center yourself.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- MBMukesh Bansal
For a lot of people earlier, you know, prayer used to be that time. So that is one way to meditate. It could be just going outside and sitting in the sun, you know, maybe that's just somewhere where you're just focusing on yourself. I think the-- you know, I adopted meditation as a habit about five, six years ago, and I think it's one of those things in just ten, fifteen minutes of investment, the return on that is just incredible. I think you feel a little more calm and centered. You're able to deal with stress, improves a bit. You're less agitated, you know, when the situation arises. So I think that's probably one thing that most people can consider in some form. There are so many varieties of meditation. One doesn't need to get too technical about it or just follow a particular style, but somewhere, you know, developing that awareness. They need to find some time during their day, preferably, as he says, consist- to maintain consistency, same time of the day. It could be, you know, on waking up or evening, but I think, you know, that definitely makes my-
- SSSuniel Shetty
No, and that's why, you know, health is not about just eating-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- SSSuniel Shetty
... about exercising or supplementation. It's about how you're feeling, how you're thinking, and what you are saying. You know, when you say, "I'm calm at, at work," that calmness comes from, from, from that mental, uh, mindset. That's why, for me, pranayama works like magic. You know, for me, that is meditation or being able to focus on something, to be able to listen to what Mukesh is saying or listen to the questions-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- SSSuniel Shetty
... you're, you're telling me, and being able to hold on to that so that the good I can use somewhere else.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
You know, for me, that is, that is focus, and, and that is meditating. If I'm listening to a great script and I'm involved, the rest of the world doesn't matter to me. When the-- when, when worry doesn't come in-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- SSSuniel Shetty
... whether it's the health of my own health, family, business, disasters around me, or my flops, if I can listen to you and get excited-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- SSSuniel Shetty
... I think that is-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- SSSuniel Shetty
... that is-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- SSSuniel Shetty
... meditation for me.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
It's not about good food and not just about, uh, uh, exercising. It's about that mental space.
- NKNikhil Kamath
May I-
- SPSpeaker
I mean, I, I was about to, uh, you know, I would say, I would-- I, I
- 1:11:40 – 1:13:18
Hobbies
- SPSpeaker
was about to say, not meditation, I was about to say hobby.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- SPSpeaker
Right? You know, having a hobby-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Right
- SPSpeaker
... that can keep you occupied.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Because one of the things I've been doing, you know, like, uh, everyone at my house has an issue with it, [chuckles] which is, uh, you know, like for around twenty to thirty minutes, uh, after my workout, I take my guitar and I sing.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
I sing loud, okay? I mean, like-
- SSSuniel Shetty
[chuckles]
- SPSpeaker
... and I find it very meditative. [singing] Zindagi Kaisi Hai Pahli Haye! Kabhi Toh Hasaye, Kabhi Rulaye. [singing]
- NKNikhil Kamath
True, true.
- SPSpeaker
You know, so and, uh, my mom, you know, as mom, you know-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Loves it
- SPSpeaker
... thinks I'm, I'm an amazing singer. You know, she says I should record, [laughing] you know? But, uh, I do that, and I play sports, you know, so I look forward to playing a sport over the weekend. So, uh, it kind of is, is- you know, it falls in the same meditative bucket-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah, yeah
- SPSpeaker
... you know?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Absolutely.
- SPSpeaker
And, uh, so I have an eight-year-old son now. So one of the things I've done, which has helped me with my sleep, is to actually kill all my devices by, by like one or two hours before sleep. And, uh, some of these hobbies- and hobbies also, you know, things that I, I keep changing, so I find it intellectually challenging to pick up a new hobby, you know. So I, I was trying to learn the keyboard for a while, like... So yeah, so I mean, I think, I think all of this, you know, it, it ends up sounding like it's very complicated to do, but it's not. I mean, I think it's, it's, uh, uh, a very-- I think everyone should have a hobby, you know?
- NKNikhil Kamath
Yeah. What about
- 1:13:18 – 1:16:30
Coffee and Suniel's Sabbatical
- NKNikhil Kamath
coffee, guys?
- MBMukesh Bansal
... like, not will you drink coffee? But [chuckles] what do you think about drinking coffee? [laughing]
- SPSpeaker
I was like, oh, yeah.
- MBMukesh Bansal
But do you want to drink a coffee?
- SPSpeaker
No, I can't sleep after that.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Anna, would you like a coffee?
- SSSuniel Shetty
No, I'm good.
- MBMukesh Bansal
You guys don't say that much about health, but each time I offer you a fruit juice, coffee, it's like a blatant no. Like it's-
- SPSpeaker
No, no, I am, I am, I'm feeling-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Really?
- SPSpeaker
-you know, like, because Suniel is around, you know, [laughing] I'm like, you know, like whatever I do, he'll be like, you know? So I'm not even thinking of food.
- MBMukesh Bansal
No, see, I think, I think more than anything, right? Like, this is about four people coming together and hanging out.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Like, it does not even have to be about health. If you want to ask him about how big his biceps are-
- SSSuniel Shetty
[laughing]
- MBMukesh Bansal
-and maybe measure them with a tape, you can and-
- SPSpeaker
No, no, but, but I think, I think, uh, you know, now that you triggered me, as in, did-- when did the stylist change? There's, you know, something about your style which changed, you know, like from your younger days to now. I mean, now, you know, the, the kind of-
- SSSuniel Shetty
I feel more evolved. I think because, uh, fashion has changed so much, yeah. The availability of everything, the awareness of everything. You read, you watch, you see. And then mentally, uh, you know, when I took that break from cinema because crap was coming to me, and then Dad fell unwell, and those three, four years with him, where nothing in the world mattered, you know, I'd stopped listening to everything around me. And when you start doing that, you realize what your strengths are, you know? And the biggest high for 嘛 me was I spent the four most beautiful years of my life with my father, when probably he needed me most, you know? Uh, and that was my high. So for me, it was... You know, a lot of kids today don't do that, but I managed to do that. So that was the strength for me. And, uh, fortunately, unfortunately, everybody believed that I didn't want to work, so nothing came to me. But the morning he passed away, that night, he passed. The morning, I got a call for one of the biggest health shows, you know, fitness shows, and, and, and, uh, I said, "This is calling. This is him saying, you know, 'Get back.'"
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
That journey, I learned so much from the kids.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
You know, and, uh, and then I said, "Let me be me," you know? The, the day you're comfortable with yourself-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- SSSuniel Shetty
-is, I think, the day you realize that there's so much in you that works. And I said, "You know, gray hair-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Mm-hmm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
-white hair, black hair, doesn't matter. Let's go gray." Because then you say, "I have hair."
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
You know, when you compare it [laughing] with the rest of the industry, everybody is weaving and everything. Everybody is doing stuff. Somewhere, I've done something right.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Whether it's the food or whether it is... So let it be, and let me age gracefully, because I've passed my prime when it comes to cinema, and action, and movies. So let me get comfortable in my own skin. So I got comfortable in my own skin, and, and I say, "I'll play my age." And then everybody saw only the good in you, you know?
- 1:16:30 – 1:18:59
Are quick Transformations healthy?
- SPSpeaker
Bollywood, right? I mean, I'm sure a lot of people will be curious about this question, right? As in, while you, your fitness journey is like, you know, you started at twelve. But, you know, when you see some of these transformations of actors, uh, you know, going from fat to, like, six packs in three months, six months, while it probably inspires a new generation of people to take up health and fitness, right? I mean, every time an actor has come showing six-pack, I think, you know, like, I'm sure Cult, [chuckles] you know, subscription goes up, right? But, but aren't you then setting up people with the wrong expectation that, you know, you can somehow go from here to here in three months or six months, et cetera? As in-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Each one has his own journey.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
But if I talk to my son, I say, "That's not the way you're going to do it. If you want to get leaner-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- SSSuniel Shetty
-there is food that can, uh, help you do it." I had said that I'll get my six-packs when I'm sixty.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
And I did manage that at that time. Pr-probably not as defined as, uh, this, because I don't do anabolic steroids, I don't take creatine, I don't take fat burners, but I'm still-- I still wear a twenty-nine and a thirty from a ready counter when it comes to Myntra and the jeans. [laughing]
- MBMukesh Bansal
[laughing]
- SSSuniel Shetty
Whichever brand that there is, you don't even need to measure. You can send it to me, and I'll wear it.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
That, for me, is my achievement. So I-- It's... I'm very clear with Ahan or with any of the kids that, that come to me asking for help, food can do it, habits can do it, sleep can do it, being confident about yourself can do it.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
You know, but I am who I am, but my attitude will depend on who you are-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Got it
- SSSuniel Shetty
... you know, so-
- MBMukesh Bansal
But, but what do you think about the, the, I mean-
- SSSuniel Shetty
It doesn't work for me.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
It doesn't work for me.
- MBMukesh Bansal
No, but, but, but do you-- Like, someone should voice this out, though, right? Because-
- SSSuniel Shetty
I, I'm constantly doing that.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
I'm constantly doing that, that fitness is not as expensive or as difficult as one seems. It's the consistency-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right
- SSSuniel Shetty
... that, that, that one has to do it with, and you can achieve it. Okay, you might not achieve it in two months, but you will achieve it in, in, in, in twelve weeks, or you will do it, uh, over sixteen weeks. There are so many apps that are doing it, and you're seeing the transformations.
- MBMukesh Bansal
I think that also, you know, I think, brings up a very interesting point. In last four, five years, as I looked more and more into science of health and also just studied generally what the traditional point of view on health is, huge convergence. On one hand,
- 1:18:59 – 1:20:47
Parallels in the History of Health and Mukesh's Mantra
- MBMukesh Bansal
you know, you have intermittent fasting, you have calorie-restricted diet, and all the, you know, evidence-based, you know, studies for that. On the other hand, you know, fasting is part of every religious tradition.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Like, there is no- not a single religion in the world with some kind of fasting protocol. You know, it could be once a week, once a month, one month in a year, whatever the, you know, format is, because people realize that. Similarly, you know, we talk about, you know, meditation is very popular. We have all these cool apps now, but, you know, pranayama, dhyan, you know, it's been part of this Ayurvedic tradition for a long period of time. Uh, you know, we talk about-- you talked about, uh, getting sunlight in the morning, surya namaskar, you know, that has always been there, right? A lot of stretch- stretching protocols. We talk about gratitude practice now.... right? We had prayers, [chuckles] you know, since ancient time.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MBMukesh Bansal
So I think there's a lot of, you know, conversion on this modern tools, which is, is great that, you know, there are-- people are talking about it, people are talking about it in scientific terms. But what makes it even more better is that there is so much, you know, even, uh, ancient validation that people have been through trial and error, through, you know, they've arrived at these things, they have followed through gen-- These things survive for thousands of years, and nothing survives for that long unless there is, you know, true merit.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- MBMukesh Bansal
There are just few fundamental principles. In fact, you know, in my book, and not to promote the book here-
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- MBMukesh Bansal
-but I think the, I think most of health advice, you know, boils down to this phrase-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- MBMukesh Bansal
-I've used. It is: eat less, sleep more, always move. In whichever format-
- SPSpeaker
Very true
- MBMukesh Bansal
-you can do these three things-
- SPSpeaker
Very true
- MBMukesh Bansal
... eighty, ninety percent of your health will be taken care of.
- NKNikhil Kamath
But you've gotten a lot fitter than two years ago. Have to say. You have.
- SPSpeaker
Can I flex? [laughing]
- NKNikhil Kamath
Yeah. You want to take off your shirt and flex? [laughing]
- SPSpeaker
[laughing] No, no, no. [grunting] [laughing]
- NKNikhil Kamath
But I wanted to talk about one more thing.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Because you're here, I think we have to use the opportunity
- 1:20:47 – 1:24:30
Business of Fitness in India, Lifestyle Diseases and Packaged Food
- NKNikhil Kamath
to talk about the business of fitness.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Mm-hmm.
- NKNikhil Kamath
How many people in our country are into fitness?
- MBMukesh Bansal
[chuckles]
- NKNikhil Kamath
And then we're going to come back to this-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right
- NKNikhil Kamath
-conversation and summarize, because I really want re-- tangible, fungible takeaways-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right. Yeah
- NKNikhil Kamath
-of what people can incorporate.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
So we'll just summarize all we spoke about once-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Sure
- NKNikhil Kamath
-and things that we think people should do, but maybe you can talk about the business.
- MBMukesh Bansal
See, I think the answer to that is not enough, you know. We have only five million people in the country who go to gym, who pay for any kind of gym membership, out of a country of, you know, one point four billion people. It's a point four percent penetration, compared to about twenty percent in US, fifteen percent in Europe. So very few people are going to any kind of gym. If we include people who go to park, you know, for morning walk, run, et cetera, the number, you know, grows to about ten, twelve million, so about a crore or so. It's just too small. I think we are at very early in the culture of fitness. You know, people are just waking up to the potential of fitness and also the, you know, the so-called, you know, Western lifestyle and what people call SAD diet, you know, standard American diet, is catching up with people. And a combination of, you know, sedentary lifestyle, poor diet choices, is catching up. And so people have become aware, the number is growing, but I think, you know, I would love to see the day, and not only because as a, you know, somebody who's involved with Cult, but in general, I think physical activity is so important. And it was, I think, part of our culture in many different ways until, say, probably thirty, forty years ago. You know, we used to go for morning walks, evening walks. In every small town, you will see people after the meal, they'll go for evening walks, right? Uh, lot of, you know, free yoga classes will happen in, you know, every neighborhood. All of that has stopped, and this more organized way of fitness has not really taken off in a big way, but hopefully that will change. You know, I think, um, we need to also talk about the, you know, how fast the lifestyle disease is. Lifestyle diseases are diseases of lifestyle, you know, diabetes, hypertension, cardiovascular diseases, mental health issues, everything is on the rise. While on the fitness gym goes a five million, the number for all these diseases are in many tens of millions, you know. You start with fifty million for diabetes, go up to as many as a hundred fifty million people who are diabetic or pre-diabetic, right? And all of these diseases are... It's not, you know, you are genetically and you have to get those. It's because people are getting accustomed to poor, uh, lifestyle choices. A lot of people just don't know what is the right thing to do. The awareness is very low. Bad habits get formed. Sometimes bad habits are promoted within the household. We have seen, you know, all these high sugar, so-called, you know, the health drinks, you know, that, you know-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Oh, yeah
- MBMukesh Bansal
... parents, you know, give to their young kids, and you get used to that, right? And only now people are realizing how much, how high the sugar content-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Like that case which is going on.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah, recently. I mean, that's, you know, it's great that awareness is building up-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Horlicks, Bournvita, Boost.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah, absolutely. You know, these then-- I mean, growing up, we all thought they were-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- MBMukesh Bansal
-health drinks, right? You know, uh, Maggi, you know, another example, right? You know, it was, you know, uh-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Wheat Maggi.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah, wheat Maggi, which is probably, I don't know, one percent, you know, wheat or something like that, right? It's, uh... I think the, the point is, you know, we have gone from a, uh, lifestyle of abundance. You know, a lot of fast food has come in, uh, a lot of packaged food has come in, which as we're growing up, I don't remember, you know, having access to a lot of packaged food. And everything was, you know, locally grown, [chuckles] homemade, fresh, which is, you know, very cool now, but it was in excess available to everybody just, you know, a few decades ago. So I think this gap between the tremendous rise in lifestyle diseases and not enough culture of, you know, active lifestyle, uh, is a problem for the country, and I hope in coming decades, that changes.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Right.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- 1:24:30 – 1:26:33
Nithin's solution to make more people In India aware of fitness
- SPSpeaker
This is something that, you know, like, has been-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Brain Matter Health also is there.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
So-
- SPSpeaker
So yeah, there's been, like, a passion project-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Right
- SPSpeaker
... you know, for the last two, three years. Uh, so, uh, run this thing called as Rain Matter Health. You know, so we've been partnering startups, working in the space, who's trying to make it easier for Indians to make healthier choices, right? Uh, so I've thought about it quite a bit-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Right
- SPSpeaker
... over the last two, three years, and I've come to a conclusion that I think the only way to get that five million number to go up is, I don't know if people will-- I mean, you need to-- People will go for fitness reasons, you know? I mean, I, I think it has to be sport reason.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Right.
- SPSpeaker
I think, you know, sport has to be promoted in this country-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Right
- SPSpeaker
... you know, outside just cricket, right? As in, uh, I think if you look at the US, I think one of the big reasons why so many people go to the gyms is because there's college scholarships.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Right.
- SPSpeaker
You know, that, you know, ha- having a sports background that helps you get into a good college is a good, you know, is a reason, right? So I think something like that has to happen in India. As in, you know, there has to be, like, this culture of playing sports that starts very early.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Because if you're playing a sport, automatically you'll do everything else, right?
- NKNikhil Kamath
That's right.
- SPSpeaker
As in, uh, um-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Basically-
- SSSuniel Shetty
... what you're saying is bang on. You know, extracurricular activity has to go out.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
And it's to-- it has to be a part of the curriculum.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
It has to be-- you have to be graded for that, and you have to get scores for that, and those scores should make a difference-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- SSSuniel Shetty
-and that's the only way it will make that difference.
- SPSpeaker
You know, if you really, truly want to make a difference in this country in terms of health, I think it's about getting more people to play sports. Ex-- you know, some physical extracurricular activities.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
I mean, this is something that, you know, internally, we were talking at Zerodha, saying that maybe we should announce that, you know, in our hiring, we'll have ten percent quota for... You know, like, you know, because, you know, businesses-
- 1:26:33 – 1:30:10
Dessert cravings and artificial sweeteners
- SPSpeaker
are your vices, by the way, Suniel, as in what do you-
- MBMukesh Bansal
... [crosstalk]
- SPSpeaker
I mean, like you said, you like desserts. What, what kind of desserts?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Any dessert, any Indian sweet would work-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- SSSuniel Shetty
-like magic for me, but, but I still control it. I control it a hell of a lot. Uh, but yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Like, you know, if you're having a, I don't know, like Kaju Barfi, can you stop at one Kaju Barfi? [chuckles]
- SSSuniel Shetty
I don't like Kaju Barfi.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, you don't like. [chuckles]
- SSSuniel Shetty
But anything else, I won't stop at.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yeah?
- SSSuniel Shetty
I can't stop. I can't.
- SPSpeaker
Uh, what is your most favorite Indian dessert?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Uh, all the laddus. You talk about the Darbar Peda. [laughing] When you come to Bangalore, that's, that's, that's a killer. Or a Mysore Pak or anything. I, I mean, I'm a mithai guy. Um, I love my mithai.
- SPSpeaker
How often do you have mithai?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Not often.
- SPSpeaker
Not often.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Not often. You know, I only... And for me, like they say, I have to take a vow or a badha and say, "Main nahi khaunga", and that's when it works.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
But then, if somebody comes with a, a, a puja ka thali, and there's the, the, there's that peda there, I'll go for it first. [chuckles] The excuse being, ''Ki nahi yaar, but, uh, iska hai, you know, puja ka hai.''
- SPSpeaker
By the way, I, you know, I, I, I got your stance on, you know, non-nutritive sweeteners, which is-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Mm
- SPSpeaker
-you know, stevia, monk fruits. What is your stance on it? As in, do you, do you-- are you okay? Because, you know, if you're going to get-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Didn't WHO just come out and say it's bad? WHO.
- SPSpeaker
No, I mean, I think it was misrepresented, you know, so I don't...
- MBMukesh Bansal
I, yeah, I think my-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Did WHO come out with it?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, they came up with a report last week, but, you know, I think the result wasn't... I think the way media has covered the result isn't, you know, it's like-
- MBMukesh Bansal
But why would they? Do you think again, it's like lobby, lobby?
- SPSpeaker
No, I mean-
- 1:30:10 – 1:38:40
Why should One care about health? Nithin speaks
- SPSpeaker
and fitness?
- MBMukesh Bansal
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Right? I mean, uh, like I said, I think, uh, interesting concept here, I think Suniel is the right, you know, like, he- hero for that story is, is that, you know, I think it's important to age stronger.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Right? As in... Because I've seen it with my dad as well, right? As in, you know, as he grew-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Hey, talk about what dad's getting on.
- SPSpeaker
Uh, sorry. Dad?
- MBMukesh Bansal
Growth hormone, testosterone. [chuckles]
- SPSpeaker
[chuckles]
- MBMukesh Bansal
What?
- SPSpeaker
No, no. No, he's not getting on that yet. So, no, we took our dad, you know, uh, to an endocrinologist, and because he was losing a lot of muscle, you know, he was kind of losing... He's becoming very frail. He's, he's not very old, he's just seventy to seventy-three, and he had a heart attack.
- MBMukesh Bansal
There's nothing illegal about testosterone-
- SPSpeaker
No, there's nothing
- MBMukesh Bansal
... or growth hormone.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- MBMukesh Bansal
So you talk about it.
- SPSpeaker
No, he's still not started that.
- MBMukesh Bansal
I think that's the question to like-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- MBMukesh Bansal
... preface the conversation-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- MBMukesh Bansal
... to be asked at that age.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- MBMukesh Bansal
And this is not for a forty-year-old man or a thirty-year-old man.
- SPSpeaker
Right. Right. So, yeah, so I mean, uh, we took, uh, the dad to the endocrinologist. I think, uh, one of-- some of the things that the endo has spoken about, you know, as you grow older, your hormonal imbalances in your body is-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... you know, like, a lot of time we don't, you know, we don't care about it. You know, this, like, speaking about testosterone is a taboo, right?
- MBMukesh Bansal
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
But men, over time, as they grow older, their testosterone keeps dropping, you know, which, which leads to lower muscle loss, leads to higher stress, and et cetera. So, uh, so yeah, so I think, um, uh, the, the endo has started my dad, uh, on DHEA supplements, and, uh, he started him on thyroid supplements.... uh, because the thyroid activity, when it, you know, is, is not optimal, you also, you know, bloat easily, you lose muscles, et cetera. Um, so yeah, so it'll be interesting, you know, like I've been telling my dad, is that if these things-- what the endo said is, if these things work well, maybe we can, you know, try testosterone, maybe we can try-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Right
- 1:38:40 – 1:42:57
Mukesh's concerns for young India and mistakes he made when younger
- SSSuniel Shetty
done right-
- MBMukesh Bansal
I think all the answers are, they are not very complicated, and definitely in Indian culture, I think a lot of, you know, solutions are available.
- SSSuniel Shetty
No, of course.
- MBMukesh Bansal
I think going back to what you were saying, Nithin, is, what will it take for people to, especially in their younger years, to take health seriously? It's not really top of mind. Sometime people get into it because of aesthetic reasons. You want to look a certain way, and that's probably the biggest trigger for people to consider in their twenties and thirties. But that's where, you know, most of the changes can happen. You know, beyond that, the long-term impact of that, you know, building a strong foundation in your twenties, thirties, and keep nurturing that in your forties, fifties. I think it's also not only about increasing your health span from 60 to 90, but even, you know, people who are not proactive about their health, they start to see things start to happen, you know, in late thirties, forties onwards, you know. You start to gain weight, you start to have pre-diabetic symptoms. You know, somebody will put on a statin for cholesterol management. You know, you start taking something for managing diabetes, and so on. And I think that, you know, your... You start to have, uh, you know, blood pressure issues, you start to feel a little foggy in the mind, you know, difficulty to deal with stress, and so on. So I think there are a lot of, you know, silent effect that starts to accumulate. So I think the key point is, you know, what will it take for, you know, country at large to wake up to the need and the long-term impact of like... It's very difficult to visualize what will happen to me, you know, 30, 40 years out. I think, you know, there is also this whole other culture of you live only once, [chuckles] right? You know, I'm going to sleep when I'm dead, you know.
- NKNikhil Kamath
[chuckles]
- MBMukesh Bansal
All those kind of, you know, misinformation that is almost glamorized at times. You know, it's, uh... And a lot of people buy into that because that seems more appropriate, you know, when you are a certain age. So I think changing the conversation is probably very hard. I think, you know, one person alone can do it.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Mm.
- MBMukesh Bansal
I think it's, you know, everything from individuals, people who are, you know, public personalities, to the government, to anyone who is able to influence, you know, talking more about health. I think I remember in, I think in, uh, uh, Michelle Obama, right, she had this whole movement around just, I think, something move. I forgot, you know, what the phrase was, right? But, you know, she made it a mission for eight years in White House to only talk about getting people to move, right? You know, that's one effort. There are many such others. So I think we'll have to, as a country, you know, rise up to taking it really seriously. Otherwise, eventually, health costs will add up. We can easily end up with a lot of people, to your point, living very long, but all of them need to be on some kind of medical attention continuously, right? You know, massively increasing healthcare costs, any quality of life is not great, and, uh, so yeah, big, you know, large problem. Glad you guys are, you know, taking initiative to at least, you know, initiate a conversation on the- conversation on this.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Right.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Uh, yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Some of the biggest mistakes you realized you were making later?
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah, so I was, you know, at some point, you know, borderline fitness freak, [chuckles] uh, who would try to go to extremes.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm-hmm.
- MBMukesh Bansal
You know, just push myself to the edge.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm-hmm.
- MBMukesh Bansal
And as a result, you know, I've accumulated a lot of wear and tear injuries. I have a tear in my left knee, I have a tear on my left shoulder, and I have to always now manage around that.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm-hmm.
- MBMukesh Bansal
And there is no-- it's not like I had a big fall, or I dropped a big weight on me. It's just, you know, wear and tear injury without understanding things. I think earlier, Nithin was talking about, you know, how, uh, prehab is very important, mobility is very important, recovery is very important, you know, your weekly massages, myofascial release, you know, trigger point therapy, and so on. So just understanding, I think, your basic fitness is fine, but when you start to push yourself, also understanding, working with a professional trainer, understanding, you know, the limitations of your own body-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm-hmm
- MBMukesh Bansal
... and designing a program which is, you know, designed to manage injuries. Because, you know, the one bad side of pushing too much is, you know, just accumulate injuries, and then sometime, you know, they will stay with you for rest of your life. Like, my injuries now, I have to just manage around that. There's nothing I can do about those.
- NKNikhil Kamath
So as such a popular person, right? Like, you are infinitely more popular than us three. Like, the three of us are known to 2% of the country. You are known to maybe 80% of the country, 'cause Bollywood is humongous, right? How is life-
- SSSuniel Shetty
But it's unfair, huh, the share of revenue then, [chuckles] huh, if you see?
- MBMukesh Bansal
Mm.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm, actually, it is.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Mm.
- NKNikhil Kamath
I agree with you. [laughing] But as
- 1:42:57 – 1:45:41
Perks of Bollywood, Nithin's acting experience & Fitness Posters
- NKNikhil Kamath
a man who has been so popular for so long, we know the hardships, right? Like, we discussed it throughout the episode. Can you tell us some of the perks? And I'm smiling while I ask you this question. [chuckles]
- SSSuniel Shetty
Everything is to do with the brand, and if you hold that brand right... I mean, today, I've probably seen the best phase of my life.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
You know, monies, respect, everything and anything-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm
- SSSuniel Shetty
... and that doesn't happen anywhere else.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
You know, uh-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Like, how does it feel, like-
- SSSuniel Shetty
I walk into a room-
- NKNikhil Kamath
... you walk into a room, and everybody knows you? What, what is the feeling that you get inside?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Of love.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
And that's why you continue to do, uh, uh, what you're doing, and that's why you want to improve upon yourself because you want to hold on to that legacy.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm. But I can say this, and I think he would agree at some level as well: I feel like this is when we are the biggest fans of yours, and this is the coolest phase of your life in a way as well, because-... in many ways, you're probably doing what you truly want to do.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Absolutely.
- MBMukesh Bansal
No, but, but Border and Hera Pheri, [laughing] I don't know, I think-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Hera Pheri was amazing.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Border also, I think I cried, right? So I mean, like, so the, there are very few scenes and moments, you know, sitting in a theater-
- NKNikhil Kamath
You know, Ni- Nithin was a budding actor growing up?
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah, man. [laughing]
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah?
- NKNikhil Kamath
Like, literally, like, in our room every night, in our bedroom, he would sit and, like, rehearse.
- SSSuniel Shetty
[laughing] Yeah, right.
- NKNikhil Kamath
That's why the singing, the guitar, all of that.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah, man. Okay, I don't-
- NKNikhil Kamath
So that's, that-
- MBMukesh Bansal
... I don't want to use cuss words on the show. [laughing]
- SSSuniel Shetty
But, but, but that, that, that, that-
- NKNikhil Kamath
It's not too late.
- 1:45:41 – 1:48:23
Mukesh's Scary Journeys to Health
- NKNikhil Kamath
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
So what got you into health?
- MBMukesh Bansal
[chuckles] I think it's been a progressive journey. I think there was a, you know, I was always active.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm-hmm.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Like, I grew up playing sports, all kinds of sports. Even my twenties, I used to play cricket. I got into golf, you know, pretty seriously in my twenties. So around the same time, my roommate, you know, we were both... This guy now runs Healthkart, Samir. So he was my roommate, and he was, um, I don't think people know him, you know, he was, [chuckles] you know, he was trying to become a model.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- MBMukesh Bansal
And he was, you know, going to gym regularly. Within six months, he changed completely. You know, his biceps were like Nithin's bicep and, you know-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm
- MBMukesh Bansal
... big chest and all that.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- MBMukesh Bansal
And I was, you know- [laughing]
- SSSuniel Shetty
He's so happy.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
He's so, he's so happy. [laughing]
- MBMukesh Bansal
Flex, you know. [laughing]
- SSSuniel Shetty
He's checking you out.
- NKNikhil Kamath
You know, each time we're posing in a picture, right, he's like this. [laughing]
- MBMukesh Bansal
He's been sitting like this since I had the picture. So anyhow, you know, and I was, at that time, I was-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm
- MBMukesh Bansal
... same height, you know, nearly six feet and sixty kg.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Really skinny.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm.
- MBMukesh Bansal
I was seeing, like, this guy, you know, all the muscles bulging up, and I was feeling, like, really, really left out. So after six months of, you know, that, I said: "Dude, I need to also go to gym with you." So that's how my fitness journey started. 2007, I moved back to India, and for six months, I had this arrangement where, you know, I would come here for three weeks, go back, uh, flying economy all the way to US, basically not sleep for twenty-four hours, spend one week, again, come back here for three weeks. And after six months of doing that, I think my, you know, immunity went for a toss. One of the flight back, I reached, you know, back in Bay Area, and, um, I was feeling this weird kind of flu, you know, just, uh, this headache which just won't go up. Uh, I couldn't look into the light. If I move my head around, you know, I will feel everything dizzy. So I had to, you know, go to emergency around, like, 4:00 a.m. And the doctor had a good sense, so, um, think there's something's wrong with this girl. So, you know, she suspected meningitis. Meningitis is basically infection of spinal fluid and, uh, spinal cord and brain. So it was, you know, pretty scary, you know, when she told me that you probably have meningitis, it could be viral or bacterial. Bacterial is- can be quite dangerous-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah
- MBMukesh Bansal
... but we won't know for next four days. So, like, pretty harrowing four days, you know, I was completely isolated, and eventually it came out a viral. I was on a bunch of, you know, medicines and came out of it. But that was an, a big wake-up call. I was just about thirty at that time, and just going through that, and just four days thinking about all kind of things, you know, maybe, you know, end is near and all kind of those things. So I think that was a big wake-up call. I think, um, from there on, I became, you know, I learned a lot more about generally immunity. That started the whole rabbit hole of looking into fitness and health and food and sleep and this and that, and it's been now fifteen years, you know, all kind of experimentation. I'm still learning, uh, but yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Nice.
- 1:48:23 – 1:50:29
Anna's Story with Vivian Richards
- NKNikhil Kamath
Nice. Anna, any story from you?
- SSSuniel Shetty
Bruce Lee. [laughing]
- MBMukesh Bansal
[laughing]
- NKNikhil Kamath
Bruce Lee.
- SSSuniel Shetty
That, that-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Tell us, tell us something that you don't often tell people.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Yeah, that I was this little skinny kid, not too tall, when in school. Uh, probably stood number one or two. I'm not talking in class, but in, in that, in that, in that row. [chuckles]
- MBMukesh Bansal
Height-wise.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Height-wise, because it went height-wise.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Right.
- SSSuniel Shetty
Uh, an obsessive, uh, cricketer, and, uh, wanted to play. Played great level of cricket in school and otherwise. Uh, scared shit. Every time I scored, I was worried.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Mm.
- SSSuniel Shetty
I'd have a sleepless night because they'd call me on stage, and when you went on stage, you were alone there, and I was bloody nervous. And, uh, when, when, when, when I decided that I wanted to play serious cricket, I was at the Taj once, and I met, uh, Sir Vivian Richards. Uh, I was a year to three years older, uh, then, and when I went and met him, and he shook my hand, and I put my hand in there, it disappeared, you know? And I had never seen that size of a forearm in my life before. And the automatic choice was... Because, uh, people always told me, "If you do weight, you get slower, and, you know, your height won't grow." So I asked him, I said: "Sir, you know, as a, as an athlete, as a cricketer, why do you have such big arms?"... because every cricketer, even then, was very lean. And of course, when it came to India, there was a lot of potbellies and, uh, and stuff like that. But, uh, he said, "To hit harder, son," and that stuck to me. And then I said, "You know what? I need to also build that body so that I can, I can hit harder." So that obsession for hitting harder is what led me to go to the gym.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Nice. Your turn. Turn
- 1:50:29 – 1:54:02
Nithin's worries and motivations
- NKNikhil Kamath
about.
- SPSpeaker
It's good.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Say something that, say something that I wouldn't know.
- SPSpeaker
I mean [chuckles] -
- NKNikhil Kamath
Say something deep about your life that even I wouldn't know.
- SPSpeaker
Very hard.
- NKNikhil Kamath
You think?
- SPSpeaker
Like, very hard to think.
- NKNikhil Kamath
On the spot, [laughing] startup entrepreneur, what is going on? [laughing] Come on! [laughing]
- SPSpeaker
Very hard to say something that you don't know.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Five, four, three, two, one.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. No, I-- No, I think, you know, in, on this health topic itself, I think-
- NKNikhil Kamath
What are you most worried about in health? Do you think you'll die before your time?
- SPSpeaker
No, no, I think, uh, I'm scared of, um, more about my mind than my body right now.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Because of time?
- SPSpeaker
No, no, mind doesn't... Like, just, uh, like, what if I get up tomorrow and I, I'm not motivated to do something in life? Like, how do I-- Because-
- NKNikhil Kamath
What are you not motivated to do right now?
- SPSpeaker
No, I'm, I'm, right now, I'm in a very motivated state, but I, I worry sometimes that, what if tomorrow morning I get up and I'm not motivated?
- NKNikhil Kamath
So when you wake up every day, what are you most motivated to do today?
- SPSpeaker
I mean, there is business, there's Rain Matter, there is Kiyan-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Most
- SPSpeaker
... there is-- Actually, I don't know. There is, I don't know if there is... I can prioritize-
- NKNikhil Kamath
I think there is a real answer, and there is an answer you will give me now. So give me the answer you want to give me.
- SPSpeaker
[laughing] I mean, you want me to catch on the camera? [laughing]
- NKNikhil Kamath
[laughing]
- SPSpeaker
You're pushing me to say, say some freaking sentimental stuff on the camera. [laughing] A good way to promote your show, huh? [laughing]
- NKNikhil Kamath
You can cut what you don't like.
- SPSpeaker
No, no, but I think, I think, um, uh, like knowing a lot of entrepreneurs, you know, I mean, a lot of entrepreneurs look up to us, you know, like how, you know, other Bollywood stars might be looking up to us. And there's this illusion that, you know, people who have made it with money are somehow unbreakable. Like, you know, financial success somehow, you know, means mentally they are in a sound place, right? As in, uh, there's something I keep talking whenever possible, is that, you know, just because we've had financial success doesn't mean that there is no insecurity in life. Now, I'm full of insecurities, you know, so, uh, I'm sure he is full of insecurities. You know, we all-
- NKNikhil Kamath
I have many more. You know, the... I'm sorry to interrupt you.
- SSSuniel Shetty
But isn't that, doesn't that bring about stability?
- 1:54:02 – 2:05:08
Summary
- NKNikhil Kamath
you guys can say what I do or something similar. What I'm doing for my health now is, my biggest issue is I can't sleep, 'cause I start work early and I work out late in the night. I struggle with five hours, five and a half hours. But the new thing I learned from Huberman, I sit in this balcony, stare at the sun for twenty minutes while I'm reading a book-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- NKNikhil Kamath
... every morning, twenty, thirty minutes.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- NKNikhil Kamath
I do intermittent fasting, so I don't eat for sixteen hours. First meal is at 2:00 p.m. I have a coffee before that, at eleven. First meal, I have a AG1. Then I have fish oil, I have vitamin D.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- NKNikhil Kamath
And in the night when I work out, I have a LMNT, and then I have a protein shake after my workout, and then I go to bed. I don't know if it's working or not. We'll find out someday, but-
- SPSpeaker
Right
- NKNikhil Kamath
... that's what I'm doing. [chuckles]
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, no, I think, uh, like, um, what has worked for me, you know, to remain consistent over the last two, three years in terms of fitness, has been getting up early and getting it done first thing in the morning. Um, because I've realized that every time I postpone it-
- SSSuniel Shetty
Never happens
- SPSpeaker
... some distraction comes.
- SSSuniel Shetty
It never happens.
- SPSpeaker
You know, so second, uh, is, uh, like I said earlier, you know, just getting workout early means my food choices for the day are, are almost always much better. Um, I, I find, uh, playing a sport very relaxing, so I try to get a game of some sport every week, at least once or twice. Uh, this, this habit of an activity tracker, I think, has just been brilliant. You know, like, today, activity trackers are available by three, four thousand rupees.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Uh, so you, you know, I have like a calorie tracking, so it keeps going on. So it- I'm accountable at the end of every night, saying that I've moved this much at least. So-... uh, that is in terms of-- and then having a hobby. So I, I s- I play the guitar, I sing a bit. I'm always constantly trying to learn some new skill set. Um, uh, in terms of nutrition, I experiment. So I don't know if, [chuckles] you know, if I should be sharing every single thing that I'm experimenting with, but right now, my cycle, you know, like what I'm doing right now is I have-- I get up and have a coffee in the morning, first thing, black coffee. Just wires me for the workout. Um, I'm having... We both are having athletic greens. Um, we, um, I'm having vitamin D, omega, um, multivitamins.
- NKNikhil Kamath
AG1, multivitamins, both? They're the same thing, no?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Yeah. Mm, I mean, yeah, this is that, what our Endo has given. Uh, then a whey protein after the workout. Um, and usually, I make sure I have three full meals, and each of the meal is balanced, so there is protein. One of the hacks that I've realized is because I have the habit of eating too much, I always start with some salad. So there's always some green that goes in, kind of fills me up. So, you know, it's like a hack I've found for myself.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Super salad before the meal.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, super salad before the meal. And, uh, I have a dessert problem. Uh, so luckily, you know, uh, because of that, Ditch The Guilt [chuckles] startup that we are supporting, now I get my special chocolate.
- NKNikhil Kamath
All the call center sales skills are coming out. [laughing]
- SPSpeaker
[laughing] Yeah, so yeah, I, I think, I think that... And, and generally, um, I think mental health is something that I care about quite a bit, and, um, we, we keep discussing about it. It's just not to keep anything in my mind.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mm-hmm. He's very good at that.
- SPSpeaker
Like-
- NKNikhil Kamath
Oh, my God!
- SPSpeaker
... I'll, I'll just, you know, there's anything that's bothering me, I make sure before I sleep, I tell you-
- NKNikhil Kamath
I'll, I'll tell you a story, okay? So I used to be-- How do I, how do I describe this in a nice way? I used to date a girl, okay? And, uh, lockdown chal raha tha, whatever, like, uh... And we both were in one house together, and it was a long time, right? Lockdown.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, it was.
- NKNikhil Kamath
And we had broken up at that point of time. So Nithin's advice to me, right? Like, [chuckles] I'm like going through, going through a breakup. We're like getting, like, reasonably intoxicated every night for two months. We have both put on five kilos each, and he's like: "You have to cry. [laughing] You don't have to mean it. Do drama. Sit in front of the..." [laughing]
- SPSpeaker
No, it is not drama. I said you need to talk it out. [laughing]
- 2:05:08 – 2:05:36
Outro
- NKNikhil Kamath
that's it for tonight. Uh, thank you everyone for coming. Anna, thank you so much-
- MBMukesh Bansal
Pleasure
- NKNikhil Kamath
... for flying all the way from Mumbai.
- MBMukesh Bansal
Pleasure.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Mukesh, sor- sorry for pulling your leg a little bit in the beginning.
- MBMukesh Bansal
It's fine, yeah. [laughing]
- NKNikhil Kamath
Hopefully, I made up for it eventually. [laughing]
- MBMukesh Bansal
You more than made up for it. And yeah, absolutely, all cool.
- NKNikhil Kamath
Him, I don't have to say anything. [laughing]
- MBMukesh Bansal
[laughing]
- NKNikhil Kamath
So thank you, everyone, and see you next time. Hi, I'm Nikhil Kamath. I'd love to know what you thought of the episode. Uh, comment, like, and subscribe, and thank you for watching.
Episode duration: 2:05:36
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