Tira, Bombay Shaving Co., Inde Wild | WTF is Fueling India’s Beauty & Skincare Revolution? | Ep. 25

1. 0:00 – 2:39

   Intro

   1. BMBhakti Modi0:00

      hair care as personal care.

   2. DKDiipa Khosla0:01

      Yeah, you're talking personal care-

   3. SDShantanu Deshpande0:02

      Personal care.

   4. BMBhakti Modi0:02

      Yeah.

   5. SDShantanu Deshpande0:02

      So now, so now this is the- so, so now the hair care is seven billion-

   6. DKDiipa Khosla0:05

      We play in the other hair care. [laughing]

   7. BMBhakti Modi0:05

      The skincare.

   8. SDShantanu Deshpande0:06

      Ah, so hair care is seven to eight billion.

   9. BMBhakti Modi0:08

      [laughing]

   10. SDShantanu Deshpande0:08

       Of which majority is oiled by-

   11. DKDiipa Khosla0:09

       [laughing] You're confusing us.

   12. BMBhakti Modi0:11

       You confused about personal care.

   13. DKDiipa Khosla0:11

       You're personal care, hair care.

   14. SDShantanu Deshpande0:13

       No, these-

   15. NKNikhil Kamath0:13

       I want to know the breakup of skincare, makeup, hair, fragrance. [upbeat music] Ready? Start.

   16. BMBhakti Modi0:50

       I thought you would've done a bunch of interviews by now. No, not too many. Few you have done.

   17. SDShantanu Deshpande0:54

       Actually-

   18. BMBhakti Modi0:54

       Yeah, few, but- The typical CNBC. I've actually never done any CNB... I've never done any, like, news things. Yeah. I've never done any, like, mm, just like, um, we just did, like, Vogue Beauty honors right now, so- Uh. Like, I'll show up there. That's my... That's the extent.

   19. NKNikhil Kamath1:13

       Ah. I think we just have to wait for Deepa. [laughing]

   20. BMBhakti Modi1:18

       Deepa will arrive. [laughing]

   21. NKNikhil Kamath1:20

       You know her already?

   22. BMBhakti Modi1:21

       Yeah, yeah.

   23. NKNikhil Kamath1:22

       Very well?

   24. BMBhakti Modi1:22

       Decently well.

   25. NKNikhil Kamath1:24

       We made a plan to catch up last week, but we couldn't, so I've never met her. Yeah. I've never met her. Actually, I've never met Shantanu also.

   26. SDShantanu Deshpande1:33

       No, we only interact on WhatsApp.

   27. NKNikhil Kamath1:35

       Her brand is doing really well, no?

   28. BMBhakti Modi1:36

       Doing well, yes.

   29. NKNikhil Kamath1:37

       Like, crazy well?

   30. BMBhakti Modi1:39

       She is just launching, if I'm not wrong, in Sephora US. She's doing very well in Sephora UK. She's doing very well in India. So she's got in the right markets, I think. Her strategy for, like, and I think which is, uh, like, great for, like, any new founder also is, like, she focused very clearly on, like, one product, and-
2. 2:39 – 5:14

   Bhakti’s journey & love story

   1. NKNikhil Kamath2:39

      a bit already because of Bangalore, Bangalore.

   2. BMBhakti Modi2:41

      Yeah, the Bangalore connection. [laughing]

   3. NKNikhil Kamath2:43

      Yeah. Her husband is also a friend.

   4. SDShantanu Deshpande2:45

      Okay.

   5. NKNikhil Kamath2:45

      Uh, he's also a very talented musician, by the way.

   6. BMBhakti Modi2:48

      Yes. [laughing]

   7. NKNikhil Kamath2:48

      And he's in a band which practices-

   8. BMBhakti Modi2:50

      [laughing]

   9. NKNikhil Kamath2:51

      ... like, 200 meters away from my apartment in Bangalore.

   10. BMBhakti Modi2:53

       Oh, God. [laughing]

   11. NKNikhil Kamath2:54

       And I've been to their jamming sessions.

   12. BMBhakti Modi2:56

       No way!

   13. NKNikhil Kamath2:56

       Yeah.

   14. SDShantanu Deshpande2:57

       What's his name? What does he do?

   15. BMBhakti Modi2:58

       Tejas, Tejas Goenka, and, uh, he is, um, currently managing director of Tally Solutions-

   16. SDShantanu Deshpande3:05

       Okay

   17. BMBhakti Modi3:05

       ... so it's a family-run, uh, family-founded company. His granddad and, um, his father founded it, and it's a software company, so s- I think India's, uh, any, any, any mo- small and medium business in India will, you know, do all their invoicing, all their inventory on Tally, right? So I think-

   18. DKDiipa Khosla3:27

       Yeah, we all use Tally.

   19. BMBhakti Modi3:28

       They... Yeah.

   20. SDShantanu Deshpande3:29

       Yeah.

   21. DKDiipa Khosla3:29

       Yeah.

   22. BMBhakti Modi3:29

       It, it, it's just-

   23. DKDiipa Khosla3:30

       Yeah

   24. BMBhakti Modi3:30

       ... it's, it's become a household name, and yeah, I think, uh, it's, uh, it's great to see because I come from a family that's, you know, where I've seen my father work in a professional environment, and then, you know, you kind of get the exposure to see someone on the other side, to see how, you know, you can carry on family legacy and, you know, build it into something that's modern, that's current, and also transcend different, uh, uh, perspectives. Yeah, so I think, uh, he's an engineer. Uh, we were- met, met in college, uh, University of Pennsylvania, and-

   25. DKDiipa Khosla4:04

       Mm-hmm

   26. BMBhakti Modi4:05

       ... uh, we were friends, friends for very long and then, yeah, we got together so, um, yeah, so he took, he took this on, and I-

   27. NKNikhil Kamath4:13

       What do you mean got together?

   28. BMBhakti Modi4:16

       [laughing] Um, I think we, we decided that [laughing] we could do... We could be a lot more than friends, uh, at an, at another common friend's wedding, so I think that-

   29. SDShantanu Deshpande4:25

       With Tally, right?

   30. BMBhakti Modi4:26

       ... the, I think the pen-pen connect-
3. 5:14 – 10:34

   Diipa’s road to Inde Wild

   1. NKNikhil Kamath5:14

      did you get to Amsterdam? Where did you begin?

   2. DKDiipa Khosla5:16

      How did I get to Am-

   3. NKNikhil Kamath5:16

      Starts with you because I know them, uh-

   4. DKDiipa Khosla5:19

      Yeah

   5. NKNikhil Kamath5:19

      ... I know her, but I'm gonna get to know you.

   6. DKDiipa Khosla5:20

      I'm the new kid on the block.

   7. NKNikhil Kamath5:22

      Yeah.

   8. DKDiipa Khosla5:22

      Um, yes, Amsterdam. Okay, let's just backwards. So just Punjabi family, born in Delhi, and then Mom and Dad are both working very hard, so at one point they put us in boarding school in Ooty. I went to this fantastic... I was just talking on the way here, as well, that pe- boarding schools have a pretty bad rep.

   9. BMBhakti Modi5:40

      Yeah.

   10. DKDiipa Khosla5:40

       I had the best time.

   11. BMBhakti Modi5:42

       Oh.

   12. DKDiipa Khosla5:42

       Like, and I feel like anybody who comes from boarding school, ask them, they've had the best time.

   13. SDShantanu Deshpande5:46

       Yeah.

   14. DKDiipa Khosla5:46

       So boarding school kid, um, it was an international school.

   15. DKDiipa Khosla5:50

       ... I didn't speak English, actually, when I got into the boarding school. Hindi was my main language, and then now my Hindi sucks [chuckles] and my English is the main language, um-

   16. SPSpeaker5:58

       I never thought you were originally from India.

   17. DKDiipa Khosla6:00

       Yeah, the, but this boarding school is literally like Harry Potter. You should look it up once. It's called Hebron School.

   18. SPSpeaker6:06

       Okay.

   19. DKDiipa Khosla6:07

       Do you know the main garden of Ooty? You take one side road, and you enter into this insane world. And I know maybe I'm, like, romanticizing it now-

   20. SPSpeaker6:17

       [chuckles]

   21. DKDiipa Khosla6:17

       ... but it literally, our dining hall had long tables like Harry Potter, and we had prefects, and it was this very British school. Uh, like, my teachers were from New Zealand and Korea and, and the US, and it was this fantastic, uh, upbringing. So after that, um, [lips smack] my mom and dad started doing business. Like, like every Punjabi has a textile business, so we had a textile business [chuckles] where we were making ski outfits for companies in Switzerland and in Netherlands. And so when we finished school, they were like, "Okay, if you wanna study anywhere abroad, it has to be the Netherlands." And I'm like: Where on earth- [laughing]

   22. SPSpeaker6:55

       [laughing]

   23. DKDiipa Khosla6:55

       ... is the Netherlands? Like, and then did a little bit of research. I'm like, "Oh, my God, it looks like a sin city. I don't know if I wanna go there. Do they speak English there? Like, what's going on?" Mom and Dad were like, "No, we have a base there, so if you wanna go, you can go there." Um, did a little research, found an amazing bachelor's kind of university there. Um, and, um, turned out it was a really fun experience, and as kind of, you know, closed off and Christian and very rule-abiding my boarding school was, Amsterdam was the, the other opposite. So I always look at my life in these three phases, almost. Like, phase one of me being a really, like, Indian-Indian girl, went to KV, like, spoke Hindi, was as, like, you know, with the plaits and oil-in-my-hair type, like, typical. Then phase two was basically in Hebron, where this international world, like, just exploded, opened up to me, but still narrow-minded in a way. Um, and then phase three was Amsterdam, where just every walk of life, every culture, every open-minded philosophy, just... Uh, and I met my husband there, who you've met, of course. Um, and then I moved to London to do law for my master's. Um, [lips smack] but my husband and I, mm, at that point, boyfriend, got together. Um, and then while I was finishing my law school, Instagram, this world of content creation or, or whatever. Back then, it didn't even have a term. It was blogging, I think, and Instagram was just starting, that that path kind of found me. Um, and then I decided, very difficultly in an Indian family, to stop law, um, and start blogging. Um, and my mom was like-

   24. NKNikhil Kamath8:41

       How long back was this?

   25. DKDiipa Khosla8:41

       10 years ago or so.

   26. SPSpeaker8:43

       Oh, wow!

   27. DKDiipa Khosla8:43

       11 years ago. And my mom was like, "Absolutely not.

   28. NKNikhil Kamath8:46

       [chuckles]

   29. DKDiipa Khosla8:46

       What is blogging? You're an academic student, straight A. You're not gonna get into this Instagram thing." And I was like: "Mom, trust me. The media landscape is changing. I can see something in the future is gonna happen here. This is right time, right place. Like, I need to be the first mover here. Like, this is gonna be big." Um, and this was, like, heydays of, like-

   30. SPSpeaker9:06

       Yeah
4. 10:34 – 15:07

   Persona’s role in brand building

   1. NKNikhil Kamath10:34

      What did you start first?

   2. DKDiipa Khosla10:36

      What do you mean?

   3. NKNikhil Kamath10:37

      In terms of business.

   4. DKDiipa Khosla10:39

      Inde Wild is my first business. Well, I can consider the personal brand a business in the way of how big the team is and how we kind of lead it, but I would say Inde Wild is, like, my first business.

   5. NKNikhil Kamath10:51

      And how long has it been?

   6. DKDiipa Khosla10:52

      Three and a half years.

   7. NKNikhil Kamath10:53

      Nice.

   8. DKDiipa Khosla10:54

      Yeah, it's been three and a half years.

   9. NKNikhil Kamath10:55

      What was the first product, like, the first...

   10. DKDiipa Khosla10:57

       The first products were our two skin SKUs. Uh, we had the AM and the PM serum, which is basically like 12 serums in one, and the PM is like eight serums in one. So it... I call it, like, the T-shirt and jeans of your skincare, where you don't need the 12-step skincare routine. One product does it all. Um, [lips smack] and then the third one we launched, which is now the, the crazy viral one-

   11. SPSpeaker11:21

       I, I, I did a little PR for you [laughing] before this.

   12. DKDiipa Khosla11:23

       [laughing] Is the Champi hair oil-

   13. NKNikhil Kamath11:25

       Awesome

   14. DKDiipa Khosla11:25

       ... which has become the household product, yeah.

   15. NKNikhil Kamath11:28

       And, and what percentage of your business is in India versus outside?

   16. DKDiipa Khosla11:32

       Yeah, so that has been crazy. So when we launched, in the first nine months, Inde Wild became the first brand, um, to launch in the US, UK, and India. Like, that was, had never been done before, so-

   17. NKNikhil Kamath11:43

       And was your content background a big, like, a big steroidal push to, like-

   18. SDShantanu Deshpande11:47

       ... taking it out?

   19. DKDiipa Khosla11:48

       100%. 100%. Like, I think, I always say that having a community of 2.5 million was the trampoline jump.

   20. SDShantanu Deshpande11:56

       Yeah.

   21. DKDiipa Khosla11:56

       Like, it, it gave the boost, but it's not obviously everything, but-

   22. SDShantanu Deshpande12:00

       Product matters, yeah.

   23. NKNikhil Kamath12:01

       But-

   24. BMBhakti Modi12:01

       And you also built your community, I think, authentically. It took-

   25. DKDiipa Khosla12:04

       Yes

   26. BMBhakti Modi12:05

       ... that time-

   27. DKDiipa Khosla12:05

       Yes

   28. BMBhakti Modi12:05

       ... 'cause you were in the beauty space, so I think that-

   29. DKDiipa Khosla12:07

       Yeah, yeah

   30. BMBhakti Modi12:08

       ... it's another fun buzzword, community.
5. 15:07 – 20:48

   How Shantanu started

   1. SDShantanu Deshpande15:08

      Uh, no, first of all, thank you for having me here, and, you know, uh, so much to learn from all three of you in very different ways. Uh, grew up between... Uh, so born in the US. Uh, my dad was in IT. Uh, he was at TCS for many years, and then, uh, uh, so grew up between the US, Pune, Bangalore, Trivandrum, Pune. So Pune is where I was from fifth grade to 12th. Very cookie cutter approach to life. I went to engineering school in Nagpur, business school in IIM Lucknow. So 2005 to 2011, education. Joined McKinsey as a consultant in 2011 in the Bombay office. Uh, '11 to '16, I was at McKinsey.

   2. DKDiipa Khosla15:48

      Long working hours?

   3. BMBhakti Modi15:49

      Wow!

   4. SDShantanu Deshpande15:50

      Yeah, it was-

   5. DKDiipa Khosla15:50

      [laughs]

   6. SDShantanu Deshpande15:51

      ... but it was, it was the best first job, man.

   7. DKDiipa Khosla15:52

      Yeah, that's true.

   8. SDShantanu Deshpande15:53

      It was the best first job.

   9. NKNikhil Kamath15:53

      Is consulting dying?

   10. SDShantanu Deshpande15:55

       Oh, 100%.

   11. NKNikhil Kamath15:56

       Yeah.

   12. SDShantanu Deshpande15:56

       You know, like, dying is a strong word-

   13. BMBhakti Modi15:58

       Mm

   14. SDShantanu Deshpande15:58

       ... but if you don't evolve, like, what I did 10 years back is completely irrelevant today.

   15. NKNikhil Kamath16:03

       What can they evolve into?

   16. SDShantanu Deshpande16:04

       I think, um, I think consultants were hired for two things, and even today, those two things remain true. One is a bottom-up strategic understanding of a complex problem that any business has. So for Tira, for example, you can say: I need to know, for example, what's an inventory versus marketplace model? What are the SKUs? What's the growth rate like? You'll have really sharp analysts, and they'll probably have AI to help them come up-

   17. NKNikhil Kamath16:30

       But you don't need that anymore, right?

   18. SDShantanu Deshpande16:32

       You do.

   19. NKNikhil Kamath16:32

       You think?

   20. SDShantanu Deshpande16:33

       I think so.

   21. NKNikhil Kamath16:34

       AI doesn't solve for that?

   22. SDShantanu Deshpande16:35

       I don't think AI can help you frame problems-

   23. NKNikhil Kamath16:37

       Mm

   24. SDShantanu Deshpande16:37

       ... yet. Like, a business needs to know how to frame the problem and evolve, evolve the framing of the problem constantly. You can't just let them free for six months.

   25. NKNikhil Kamath16:45

       Give me a for instance. Let's say Deepa's brand. Am I saying that right, Deepa? Yeah.

   26. DKDiipa Khosla16:53

       Yeah, it's just because of I-I-P-A-

   27. NKNikhil Kamath16:55

       Yeah

   28. DKDiipa Khosla16:55

       ... N in numerology, my parents.

   29. NKNikhil Kamath16:57

       Okay.

   30. SDShantanu Deshpande16:58

       Let's say Deepa's brand, let's say Deep- Inde Wild, uh, has to, uh, launch a men's business in India, let's say.
6. 20:48 – 27:30

   Valuations & industry secrets

   1. SDShantanu Deshpande20:48

      in 2016-

   2. NKNikhil Kamath20:48

      Also, before I forget, another question:

   3. SDShantanu Deshpande20:49

      Mm.

   4. NKNikhil Kamath20:49

      What are multiples in a business like this or that today? Is it four or five-

   5. SDShantanu Deshpande20:56

      Valuation multiples?

   6. NKNikhil Kamath20:56

      Yeah.

   7. SDShantanu Deshpande20:58

      So, this is a good part, right?

   8. NKNikhil Kamath20:59

      Yeah.

   9. SDShantanu Deshpande20:59

      Four to five times revenue, if you're growing 40% year on year.

   10. NKNikhil Kamath21:03

       If you're growing 20%?

   11. SDShantanu Deshpande21:05

       Three to four.

   12. DKDiipa Khosla21:06

       Really?

   13. BMBhakti Modi21:07

       No, I think it's-

   14. DKDiipa Khosla21:08

       I've heard differently.

   15. BMBhakti Modi21:08

       Different. Yeah, it's, it can be anywhere between... It really depends on where, what category you are in, as well, because-

   16. SDShantanu Deshpande21:15

       So in beauty personal care, there is a, there is a, there is the moment of transition is when you become profitable, when you start going from four times revenue, five times revenue, to 40 times forward EBITDA.

   17. DKDiipa Khosla21:27

       I've heard of cases-

   18. SDShantanu Deshpande21:28

       That's, that's the transition

   19. DKDiipa Khosla21:29

       ... with, like, five to six times on ARR, or what I-

   20. BMBhakti Modi21:33

       Five to six times on revenue is, is very common as well-

   21. SDShantanu Deshpande21:35

       But what's the growth rate?

   22. BMBhakti Modi21:36

       ... right now.

   23. SDShantanu Deshpande21:37

       You won't value... Like, who gets valued at that? How much is the Emami valued at?

   24. NKNikhil Kamath21:40

       How much did Minimalist get valued at?

   25. DKDiipa Khosla21:41

       Haley Bieber just-

   26. BMBhakti Modi21:42

       I think-

   27. SDShantanu Deshpande21:42

       [chuckles]

   28. DKDiipa Khosla21:42

       ... Haley Bieber just got her company valued at-

   29. BMBhakti Modi21:45

       I think-

   30. NKNikhil Kamath21:45

       Ah.
7. 27:30 – 34:58

   Decoding the salon industry

   1. BMBhakti Modi27:30

      at the services industry, on the other hand, um, it's all about hair. So skin and makeup services are not huge. 70%-

   2. NKNikhil Kamath27:38

      Wait, that comes under this?

   3. BMBhakti Modi27:40

      So services is also beauty, right? Like hair services, when you get into the-

   4. NKNikhil Kamath27:44

      Like if I go to-

   5. SPSpeaker27:44

      Like salon.

   6. NKNikhil Kamath27:45

      Yeah.

   7. BMBhakti Modi27:45

      Like a salon. 70% is all about hair, but when you're talking-

   8. SPSpeaker27:49

      Well, I wouldn't consider salon under the beauty-

   9. BMBhakti Modi27:51

      Yeah, you... I mean, it's-

   10. SPSpeaker27:52

       Ayurveda, would you?

   11. BMBhakti Modi27:52

       ... it's still, you're still selling, uh, you're still selling product there, right?

   12. SPSpeaker27:56

       Mm.

   13. BMBhakti Modi27:57

       Like a Kerastase.

   14. NKNikhil Kamath27:58

       You're talking about the products sold at a salon-

   15. BMBhakti Modi27:59

       Products

   16. NKNikhil Kamath27:59

       ... not the service.

   17. SPSpeaker28:01

       Not the treatments.

   18. BMBhakti Modi28:01

       No, not the treatments.

   19. SDShantanu Deshpande28:02

       But it's still consumption, no?

   20. BMBhakti Modi28:03

       But it's still consumption on how people think differently. So-

   21. NKNikhil Kamath28:06

       Is that a big part of consumption, salons?

   22. BMBhakti Modi28:09

       Salons-

   23. SPSpeaker28:09

       Used to be

   24. NKNikhil Kamath28:10

       ... is huge.

   25. SPSpeaker28:10

       Used to be, I think.

   26. BMBhakti Modi28:11

       In India particularly-

   27. NKNikhil Kamath28:13

       Yeah

   28. BMBhakti Modi28:13

       ... all professional haircare brands have started in salons. If you look at Kerastase, they do majority of their business still through salons, because, again-

   29. NKNikhil Kamath28:22

       And what does it take to crack a salon? Like, if I'm a new brand like Kerastase.

   30. BMBhakti Modi28:27

       So India is very fragmented, even on the salon space. So you'll have some... You'll have, like, eight to 10 big brands that are dominating different markets, right? Like the north or the west or, um, the south. And, um, you have to actually be able to strike a deal. For example... And it's a Kerastase, if they go into any salon, they don't allow any other brand to be do- to be there. So-
8. 34:58 – 38:01

   How Inde Wild made Champi cool again

   1. SDShantanu Deshpande34:58

      Deepa has really nice hair.

   2. DKDiipa Khosla35:00

      Thank you. You will need to get my oil.

   3. SDShantanu Deshpande35:02

      [laugh]

   4. DKDiipa Khosla35:02

      I need to send it to you. I will send you my oil.

   5. SDShantanu Deshpande35:04

      Do you oil every day?

   6. DKDiipa Khosla35:06

      No, that would be crazy. [laughing]

   7. SDShantanu Deshpande35:08

      [laughing]

   8. DKDiipa Khosla35:09

      Um, I, [laugh] I oil usually once a week. We call it, um, Sunday Champi. That's kind of the thing we've made with our brand, where every Sunday, our community Champis with us.

   9. SDShantanu Deshpande35:18

      Wow.

   10. DKDiipa Khosla35:18

       Um, girls go to Pilates with oil in their hair. Girls go to groceries with oil in their hair and-

   11. BMBhakti Modi35:23

       I, I work- worked out with her Champi hair oil-

   12. DKDiipa Khosla35:25

       See?

   13. BMBhakti Modi35:26

       ... on, on a Sunday, so it's excellent.

   14. DKDiipa Khosla35:27

       And you keep it on all day? No, we keep it on for an hour, two hours, and then you wash it out. It's almost... Honestly, it has become a movement of sorts [laugh] with the Gen Z, because this thing, the Champi, the hair oiling, was a PTSD to all of us growing up.

   15. BMBhakti Modi35:41

       Yes.

   16. DKDiipa Khosla35:42

       I, I mean, I hated it.

   17. BMBhakti Modi35:44

       Mm.

   18. DKDiipa Khosla35:44

       Like, you would have to go to school with it. It would stink-

   19. BMBhakti Modi35:47

       Flat, flat hair.

   20. DKDiipa Khosla35:48

       It would be heavy.

   21. BMBhakti Modi35:49

       Yeah.

   22. DKDiipa Khosla35:49

       Like, you just didn't like the experience of oiling your hair, and especially if you go abroad with it, the- you would be made fun of. You know, so Indians abroad, Indians in India, all of us together have this really bad experience of hair oiling, and what Inde Wild did is we took that very same experience, turned it on its head, and made it cool.... and now there's this clean girl aesthetic, where it's all about the slick back and updos. Do it with the Champi oil.

   23. NKNikhil Kamath36:14

       That's cool.

   24. DKDiipa Khosla36:14

       And-

   25. BMBhakti Modi36:15

       Yeah.

   26. DKDiipa Khosla36:15

       And so it's become like instead of using a wax or a gel, use this oil that is really good for your hair while you do a cool style with it, and, and, and then really treat your hair every Sunday, and the before and afters speak for themselves. So I think-

   27. NKNikhil Kamath36:30

       We were ideating a jewelry brand recently-

   28. DKDiipa Khosla36:32

       Mm-hmm

   29. NKNikhil Kamath36:32

       ... with lab-grown jewelry, lab-grown diamonds, and two people we were consulting, Kishore and Santosh Birani-

   30. DKDiipa Khosla36:41

       Mm.
9. 38:01 – 45:14

   Market size & shifting narratives

   1. NKNikhil Kamath38:01

      we establish market size? You said skincare, makeup, hair, and fragrance. How big is this market in India now? You said premium is 1,000 bucks, luxe and prestige is 2,300 bucks, mass is below that.

   2. DKDiipa Khosla38:13

      Yes.

   3. NKNikhil Kamath38:13

      Women are majority of the market. How big is the market and who is buying, overall, in India?

   4. DKDiipa Khosla38:20

      I think beauty personal care at this point, in 2024, was 21 billion, which is so funny because our first investor deck had something from McKinsey and Bain saying in 2025, the Indian beauty market would be 20 billion. We've already beaten it.

   5. BMBhakti Modi38:35

      Beaten, yeah.

   6. DKDiipa Khosla38:35

      So it's going faster than anybody expected. Um, if you double-click on beauty itself, I think-

   7. BMBhakti Modi38:41

      40 to 45% of the market.

   8. DKDiipa Khosla38:43

      Yeah.

   9. BMBhakti Modi38:43

      Yeah.

   10. NKNikhil Kamath38:44

       When you say beauty, you mean-

   11. DKDiipa Khosla38:45

       Skincare-

   12. NKNikhil Kamath38:46

       Skincare, makeup, hair, fragrance

   13. DKDiipa Khosla38:46

       ... correct, yeah.

   14. NKNikhil Kamath38:48

       Do Indians still buy the Western narrative?

   15. DKDiipa Khosla38:51

       That's such a good question.

   16. BMBhakti Modi38:52

       Yes.

   17. DKDiipa Khosla38:53

       Yes-

   18. BMBhakti Modi38:54

       Yes and no.

   19. DKDiipa Khosla38:55

       Yeah.

   20. BMBhakti Modi38:56

       Yes and no.

   21. NKNikhil Kamath38:56

       Explain.

   22. DKDiipa Khosla38:57

       You start.

   23. BMBhakti Modi38:59

       I think that, um, you know, there was a time when a lot of the... When, when particularly when MAC entered, right? I think they came, they had first mover advantage, entered the market, and really took it by storm. There was no Indian brand, um, you know, uh, there was no global brand other than Maybelline and, uh, Lakme, as, as we always all know, has, like, you know, changed, changed the game in the mass segment. But MAC came in and kind of, you know, we were all... I think the millennial generation was the first one that started, you know, traveling and-

   24. DKDiipa Khosla39:35

       Mm

   25. BMBhakti Modi39:35

       ... going out and getting a little bit of the taste of what, what beauty was glo- you know, in, in the Western countries. And I, I think that when that MAC phenomena began, we were all, you know, "Oh wow, this is made in, uh, Italy. It's made in France. It's come from the UK. It's come from the US." There was that whole enigma to kind of, uh, you know, want and just be that, right? So it was whether it was in looks, whether it was in how we believed, what we wanted to be, just dressing, everything was kind of aping, aping the West. Now, I said, as, as brands started really coming in, the con- and the consumer mindset started moving, one pe- one, consumers believe that when brands are coming from a country like, uh, uh, France, or they're coming from a country like Italy, where they're known to have really, really good quality ingredients, they want product that is very, very good. Um, but I think when it comes fr- uh, when it, when it, uh, comes to a brand and storytelling and who they identify with, that identification has changed very beautifully. They realized that they were not seeing people who represent, who represent them. So I think when it comes to what they expect from a quality perspective, yes, there is a want to emulate the West, in product standard, in quality, in transparency, in how they talk about claims, in... You know, I think Europe, Europe has the highest standards when it comes to safety and ingredients, um, and transparency, and the consumers today in India demand exactly that.

   26. DKDiipa Khosla41:10

       Mm.

   27. BMBhakti Modi41:10

       Do they want to see the same kind of brand storytelling, the kind... The same kind of, uh, uh, you know, uh... They want, they want to see who they are on a global brand as well. So I think that when you, uh... Global brands are alienating, uh, uh, uh, you know, alienating Indian consumers when they don't see someone who looks like them in India.

   28. DKDiipa Khosla41:32

       Yeah.

   29. BMBhakti Modi41:32

       So that's, I think, a... Any, any time a brand is coming in, I always tell them this, that, "Make sure... You may not get a face, but you make sure that you are being able to s- your brand has something that connects to the Indian consumer. There's, there's something that speaks to their unique journey-

   30. DKDiipa Khosla41:49

       Yeah
10. 45:14 – 52:41

    Marketing quality & building a community

    1. NKNikhil Kamath45:14

       Give me a tip here. I'm starting a brand. I'm 20 years old or 25 years old. I have great quality, but how do I tell people I have great quality, or how do I show them?

    2. DKDiipa Khosla45:23

       How quickly do you want to scale?

    3. NKNikhil Kamath45:25

       As-

    4. DKDiipa Khosla45:25

       How much time do you have?

    5. NKNikhil Kamath45:26

       As quickly as I can.

    6. DKDiipa Khosla45:29

       How much money do you have?

    7. NKNikhil Kamath45:31

       Say, 2 crore rupees. They started with that much, no, Minimalist? 2 crores, 3 crores.

    8. SDShantanu Deshpande45:35

       Yeah, they, they were very-

    9. BMBhakti Modi45:37

       Yeah

    10. SDShantanu Deshpande45:37

        ... they were very capital efficient.

    11. BMBhakti Modi45:38

        Yeah.

    12. SDShantanu Deshpande45:39

        They didn't raise a lot.

    13. BMBhakti Modi45:39

        Yeah.

    14. SDShantanu Deshpande45:39

        They raised after-

    15. DKDiipa Khosla45:40

        They had their own manufacturing unit. That was a big up.

    16. SDShantanu Deshpande45:43

        But it doesn't cost a lot, no, to put, put the manufacturing. It, it wasn't very CapEx intensive. It was a, a small lab.

    17. NKNikhil Kamath45:48

        See, a lot of people can have good quality. The question is, how is the story told?

    18. DKDiipa Khosla45:52

        How are you gonna market? Yeah, of course.

    19. BMBhakti Modi45:54

        Yeah.

    20. DKDiipa Khosla45:54

        Good quality is part one of the equation. Then you need a phenomenal, like, marketing... Like, of course, with me, it was great that we had that trampoline jump to begin with. It is a content creator economy. Like, it is content, content. Like, I al- I tell my team this all the time, "We're a product company and a media company in one." Like, if we can do our content and media-

    21. NKNikhil Kamath46:14

        That seems to be what everybody tells me today.

    22. SDShantanu Deshpande46:17

        Yeah.

    23. DKDiipa Khosla46:17

        Yeah.

    24. NKNikhil Kamath46:17

        Not just in your industry.

    25. DKDiipa Khosla46:18

        Yeah, yeah. You have to. Like, that's the way-

    26. NKNikhil Kamath46:21

        Like, including him, he's a media company as much as he's a product company.

    27. DKDiipa Khosla46:24

        You are.

    28. SDShantanu Deshpande46:24

        No, we're not a media company, but we do a lot of distribution of content through channels that we own, as opposed to buying media off of inventory.

    29. DKDiipa Khosla46:31

        Yeah.

    30. BMBhakti Modi46:32

        Yeah, yeah.
11. 52:41 – 1:00:42

    Why fragrance is exploding

    1. NKNikhil Kamath52:41

       my question. Tell me which category is growing the fastest?

    2. BMBhakti Modi52:44

       Skincare.

    3. DKDiipa Khosla52:45

       Fragrance.

    4. BMBhakti Modi52:46

       Yes, yes. Skin-

    5. DKDiipa Khosla52:47

       Fragrance?

    6. SDShantanu Deshpande52:47

       I think fragrance is growing really fast.

    7. BMBhakti Modi52:48

       Skincare is growing (overlapping conversation)

    8. DKDiipa Khosla52:49

       I think fragrance is gonna grow really fast.

    9. BMBhakti Modi52:51

       13?

    10. SDShantanu Deshpande52:51

        Fragrance is growing really fast. It's crazy.

    11. NKNikhil Kamath52:52

        And fast, you mean like 15%?

    12. SDShantanu Deshpande52:54

        No, I think-

    13. BMBhakti Modi52:55

        No, skincare between... So they are all growing between 10 to 13%, 'cause beauty, uh, beauty is growing at a 10%, 10 to 11% case right now.

    14. SDShantanu Deshpande53:02

        If you were to start today, start in a place where there is a the lo- uh, one is growth rate, the second is disruption.

    15. DKDiipa Khosla53:09

        Yeah.

    16. BMBhakti Modi53:09

        Mm.

    17. SDShantanu Deshpande53:09

        I agree with her. I think fragrance is seeing insane disruption-

    18. BMBhakti Modi53:12

        Yeah, 100%

    19. SDShantanu Deshpande53:13

        ... from last 15 years.

    20. DKDiipa Khosla53:14

        Because why, is if you look at the Indian fragrance market right now, there's one of two things. You have the really expensive Chanel, Tom Fords, blah, blah, blah, above 10,000, 15,000, but originals. Then you have dupes, um, which I don't know the brand names fully, but they literally sell dupes of, say, the, the bestselling Gio, Acqua di Parmas, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

    21. NKNikhil Kamath53:37

        Mm-hmm.

    22. DKDiipa Khosla53:37

        599, 699-

    23. NKNikhil Kamath53:39

        I know this brand

    24. DKDiipa Khosla53:39

        ... 799.

    25. SDShantanu Deshpande53:39

        Bella Vita.

    26. NKNikhil Kamath53:40

        Yeah, Bella Vita.

    27. DKDiipa Khosla53:40

        Bella Vita.

    28. BMBhakti Modi53:41

        Bella Vita.

    29. SDShantanu Deshpande53:41

        We do it.

    30. DKDiipa Khosla53:42

        Exactly.
12. 1:00:42 – 1:08:04

    Community’s role in branding

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:00:42

       but we didn't finish the thought on... You hinted at offline might be better than online, or you need to have offline.

    2. SDShantanu Deshpande1:00:51

       No, I don't think so.

    3. DKDiipa Khosla1:00:52

       I think it's a-

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:00:52

       And then we moved on to influencers. [laughs]

    5. DKDiipa Khosla1:00:54

       Okay, we can d- we can go back to community. So I think community, like again, what Bhakti said, it's a buzzword today. Everybody's like, "Community, community, community!" But I think I can only speak for us, but at Inde Wild, everything we do starts and ends with community. And I mean in it every aspect. Like, before we launched the brand, we had surveys that, uh, were written by 16,000 of my, like, followers that really said everything. I had 13 focus groups before the brand even existed, asking them, "What do you care about? What is your skincare concerns? What is it not in the market?" Like, you know, really figuring it out. Even in our bio till today, it says, "Co-created by you." So that is pre-brand launch. Once the brand launched, you know, we really interact... Like, even the way our customer service is done, it's not like a, "Oh, order misplaced. Okay, here's your number. Go fig- figure it out." Like, we really genuinely talk to them, like, we'd say, educated bestie. Like, you are their bestie, you talk to them, you keep the conversation going. It's not just like, "Finish, order done." And so in every aspect of Inde Wild, community is infused.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath1:02:01

       It almost sounds like you're saying listen to your followers-

    7. DKDiipa Khosla1:02:04

       Yes

    8. NKNikhil Kamath1:02:04

       ... and speak to them constantly.

    9. DKDiipa Khosla1:02:06

       Exactly. And then-

    10. NKNikhil Kamath1:02:06

        Is that community? 'Cause I don't know what, community is sounding like spirituality to me.

    11. DKDiipa Khosla1:02:10

        I, I don't think it's about, uh, uh, that-

    12. NKNikhil Kamath1:02:12

        We all mean different things.

    13. DKDiipa Khosla1:02:14

        I think it's in... It's everything together, and-

    14. SDShantanu Deshpande1:02:17

        What is the best community? Who runs the best community in India?

    15. BMBhakti Modi1:02:19

        I mean, I think if you take, uh, take his example, it is about, like, there is a whole community of people who like to take care of their beards.

    16. DKDiipa Khosla1:02:28

        Yeah.

    17. BMBhakti Modi1:02:28

        It's a, it's a small one, but there is a whole community that looks at it as self-care versus just looking at it as, um, you know, something you have to do on a day-to-day level. So now that community is very different from people who use the products as personal grooming products. They actually... And I have a friend in London who really takes- who has a three st- three to four-step grooming routine for his beard. He lives in London, so he has a Turkish barber who he goes to every month to take care of his, uh, beard. And he... It's, it's his ritual, and it's his self-care ritual, right? And now there may be a-

    18. NKNikhil Kamath1:03:04

        I suspect Shantanu is a bit like that.

    19. SDShantanu Deshpande1:03:05

        [laughs] Sorry?

    20. NKNikhil Kamath1:03:06

        No, I said I suspect you might be a bit like that. You have your barber who does everything and stuff like that.

    21. SDShantanu Deshpande1:03:10

        Yeah. So we have a group, whole group of barbers who kind of work with us.

    22. BMBhakti Modi1:03:14

        And that's, that is exactly a community.

    23. SDShantanu Deshpande1:03:17

        But, uh, yeah, but... So is that a community or a group of people who have something in common?

    24. BMBhakti Modi1:03:20

        No!

    25. SDShantanu Deshpande1:03:20

        Because community also talk to each other, right?

    26. SPSpeaker1:03:21

        How do you translate that into a community, it means?

    27. BMBhakti Modi1:03:23

        Yeah, so it's, it is about... 'Cause they have a shared value, right? So I think if, if I have to simplify what a community is, it is a group of people who have certain shared values that they can come together and speak about. So as I said, if you have acne concerns, that's a, you know, that, that's a community. And you may have a micro community in that saying, "You know, I'm, I'm 15 years old," and then there's these young teenage, you know, like, "I've just grown out of..." Or mums, for example, you know? The I, I have, uh, uh, I have two nieces, and they're now 11, you know, in the 11 to 13 age bracket, and they are the most impressionable, um-

    28. DKDiipa Khosla1:04:05

        Mm

    29. BMBhakti Modi1:04:05

        ... uh, age group now, and they're also the most exposed. I don't think when I was 11 or 12, I really cared about skincare. My mom just said, "Wash your face," and that's about it. They know every single brand that's trending. Whenever they go to a Tira store, my nieces will be like, "Oh, B- I, we saw that you launched, you launched Fenty, you launched that brand." They know everything. They told me like, "Oh, why don't you have this brand?" They know it a lot more. So there's exposure, but with that comes a lot more pressure as well. Right now, their mums are a community because they're trying to figure out-

    30. SDShantanu Deshpande1:04:35

        Mums are big communities
13. 1:08:04 – 1:22:26

    Cracking the BPC industry

    1. DKDiipa Khosla1:08:04

       Yeah.

    2. NKNikhil Kamath1:08:05

       Actually, don't say Nikhil, 'cause I probably have a community. Let's say, uh-

    3. SDShantanu Deshpande1:08:10

       What the Fragrance?

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:08:11

       Huh?

    5. SDShantanu Deshpande1:08:12

       What the Fragrance?

    6. DKDiipa Khosla1:08:13

       What the Fragrance.

    7. NKNikhil Kamath1:08:14

       Yeah.

    8. DKDiipa Khosla1:08:14

       What the also has a community.

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:08:15

       Yeah.

    10. SDShantanu Deshpande1:08:16

        That's, that's the whole thing, no?

    11. NKNikhil Kamath1:08:17

        Let's say my name is Dilip, and I'm building a perfume company. [laughing]

    12. BMBhakti Modi1:08:22

        [laughing]

    13. DKDiipa Khosla1:08:23

        First question, what is your emotion that you want to sell?

    14. NKNikhil Kamath1:08:25

        I'm 25 years old. I live in Bangalore.

    15. SDShantanu Deshpande1:08:31

        You have two crore rupees.

    16. NKNikhil Kamath1:08:32

        I have two crore rupees that I borrowed. I spent the last many years of my life going to a engineering college, but today AI has come, and I'm feeling very-

    17. SDShantanu Deshpande1:08:44

        Irrelevant

    18. NKNikhil Kamath1:08:44

        ... obsolete and irrelevant.

    19. DKDiipa Khosla1:08:45

        First question: What's your why?

    20. SDShantanu Deshpande1:08:47

        Yeah.

    21. DKDiipa Khosla1:08:47

        Yeah. What's the white space?

    22. NKNikhil Kamath1:08:49

        What's my why of fragrance company?

    23. DKDiipa Khosla1:08:52

        What's your why? Why are you, engineer at 25, wanting to build a fragrance company?

    24. SDShantanu Deshpande1:08:57

        It's a very good question because there are many reasons why people are doing this.

    25. NKNikhil Kamath1:09:00

        Because I go to a engineering college in South Bangalore. I used to go, and people smell really bad, and I want to change this.

    26. SDShantanu Deshpande1:09:08

        Excellent.

    27. BMBhakti Modi1:09:08

        I actually really like that.

    28. DKDiipa Khosla1:09:10

        Yeah.

    29. SDShantanu Deshpande1:09:10

        That's a good point.

    30. DKDiipa Khosla1:09:10

        That's a very good start.
14. 1:22:26 – 1:27:15

    Omnichannel: A must-have?

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:22:26

       omnichannel?

    2. SDShantanu Deshpande1:22:27

       Oh, yeah.

    3. BMBhakti Modi1:22:28

       I think, yeah, today, omnichannel, if you want to grow at scale, omnichannel is the way to go, and-

    4. SDShantanu Deshpande1:22:33

       Mm-hmm

    5. BMBhakti Modi1:22:33

       ... that's where, like, multi-brand retailers like us come in, right? Because if you're talking about a D2C brand, yes, w- you can start your own website, but I already have captive audience, right? I already have the customers.

    6. SDShantanu Deshpande1:22:45

       I had an idea, actually. There's a whole-

    7. NKNikhil Kamath1:22:47

       For, for Dilip or for me?

    8. SDShantanu Deshpande1:22:47

       For, for Dilip.

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:22:48

       Mm.

    10. SDShantanu Deshpande1:22:49

        You... We, we were thinking about community, and like, for example-

    11. BMBhakti Modi1:22:51

        Mm

    12. SDShantanu Deshpande1:22:51

        ... there's a huge opportunity to build out the frag head community of India.

    13. NKNikhil Kamath1:22:56

        Explain. I don't even know what that means.

    14. SDShantanu Deshpande1:22:58

        Frag heads are people who-

    15. DKDiipa Khosla1:22:58

        Like sneakerheads.

    16. SDShantanu Deshpande1:22:59

        Like sneakerheads, but frag are the people who understand... So they're called noses. So if you're a nose-

    17. NKNikhil Kamath1:23:03

        Mm

    18. SDShantanu Deshpande1:23:04

        ... you can distinguish between multiple notes. And there is, like, in a group of five friends-

    19. NKNikhil Kamath1:23:08

        Mm

    20. SDShantanu Deshpande1:23:08

        ... the noses become like this status symbol that you are act- It's like a good wine taster in a group of people who like wine, for example.

    21. NKNikhil Kamath1:23:15

        Like, a sneakerhead is cool. A sommelier is cool. I don't know about frag head.

    22. BMBhakti Modi1:23:19

        So-

    23. SDShantanu Deshpande1:23:19

        Frag head

    24. BMBhakti Modi1:23:20

        ... build it up.

    25. SDShantanu Deshpande1:23:21

        Build it up.

    26. BMBhakti Modi1:23:21

        Make it cool.

    27. SDShantanu Deshpande1:23:22

        That, that, that becomes the common purpose for-

    28. BMBhakti Modi1:23:23

        Like how we made the Champi corn, like that.

    29. DKDiipa Khosla1:23:24

        And that's a community.

    30. SDShantanu Deshpande1:23:25

        That's a com- Then it's a community.
15. 1:27:15 – 1:31:00

    Tariffs, growth & social selling

    1. SPSpeaker1:27:15

       offline helps, online also helps. Offline, I think, has a impact which is exponential in nature. I don't know why, with most communities, I've found that. When I bring a bunch of people together who see each other physically and touch each other, touch each other-

    2. SDShantanu Deshpande1:27:30

       Yeah

    3. SPSpeaker1:27:30

       ... I think it kind of-

    4. DKDiipa Khosla1:27:32

       Sound like a cult. [laughing]

    5. SDShantanu Deshpande1:27:34

       Yeah. But if you, if you're, if you're-

    6. DKDiipa Khosla1:27:36

       Yeah

    7. SDShantanu Deshpande1:27:36

       ... doing offline community events-

    8. SPSpeaker1:27:37

       More memorable

    9. SDShantanu Deshpande1:27:37

       ... like making content around it and distributing it on-

    10. SPSpeaker1:27:40

        Yeah

    11. DKDiipa Khosla1:27:40

        Exactly

    12. SDShantanu Deshpande1:27:40

        ... the fragmented community is very important.

    13. DKDiipa Khosla1:27:41

        There is a dual effect for that. Like-

    14. SPSpeaker1:27:42

        And I agree, patriotism is, is selling, and Trump has four years left, right? Three and a half.

    15. DKDiipa Khosla1:27:47

        Three.

    16. SDShantanu Deshpande1:27:48

        [laughing]

    17. DKDiipa Khosla1:27:48

        Three and a half.

    18. SPSpeaker1:27:49

        It'll sell more up until then.

    19. SDShantanu Deshpande1:27:51

        Is tariffs affecting you?

    20. DKDiipa Khosla1:27:54

        Big time. US, you were asking one of your first questions was your share in business, right? Um, US used to be 60%.

    21. SDShantanu Deshpande1:28:00

        Uh-huh.

    22. DKDiipa Khosla1:28:01

        And in the last year, thanks to people like Tira, our retail has grown 500% in India, and now India is 60%, and US is 40. So back then, US was 40, and India was, uh... US was 60, India was 40. Now it's flipped.

    23. SDShantanu Deshpande1:28:17

        This is another thing that India has done well.

    24. SPSpeaker1:28:18

        Where are you manufacturing?

    25. DKDiipa Khosla1:28:20

        Um, I'm one of those really, um, product-obsessed people. We go wherever the best manufacturing is. It's not... My husband hates it 'cause he does the ops and finance part. [chuckles]

    26. SPSpeaker1:28:29

        You guys work together?

    27. DKDiipa Khosla1:28:31

        We do.

    28. SPSpeaker1:28:31

        Wow!

    29. DKDiipa Khosla1:28:32

        We're co-founders. Yeah. Yeah.

    30. SPSpeaker1:28:33

        So where do you manufacture?
16. 1:31:00 – 1:34:51

    Can Indian brands go global?

    1. SDShantanu Deshpande1:31:00

       globally relevant fragrances would be a good idea for the lip. Coming back to [chuckles] coming back to-

    2. DKDiipa Khosla1:31:05

       Only lip?

    3. NKNikhil Kamath1:31:06

       You might be the lip.

    4. SDShantanu Deshpande1:31:08

       I think building from India for the world is something that we have to start doing a lot more of-

    5. DKDiipa Khosla1:31:14

       Yeah

    6. SDShantanu Deshpande1:31:15

       ... of what she does.

    7. SPSpeaker1:31:15

       Yeah, Inde Wild-

    8. DKDiipa Khosla1:31:16

       What Inde Wild is doing.

    9. SDShantanu Deshpande1:31:17

       Yeah.

    10. DKDiipa Khosla1:31:17

        100%. I think the world's ready. Like, we've had, um, Korean skincare beauty obviously explode in the world, Japanese-

    11. SPSpeaker1:31:25

        Japanese

    12. DKDiipa Khosla1:31:25

        ... skincare beauty. We've had fragrances from France. We've had skincare from France. Like, it's all happened.

    13. SDShantanu Deshpande1:31:32

        Yeah.

    14. DKDiipa Khosla1:31:32

        It's, it's time.

    15. SPSpeaker1:31:33

        It's time for India.

    16. DKDiipa Khosla1:31:33

        It's time for India, and Inde Wild-

    17. SDShantanu Deshpande1:31:36

        And we've done, we've done-

    18. DKDiipa Khosla1:31:36

        Doing that

    19. SDShantanu Deshpande1:31:37

        ... we've done, we've done, right? With Ayurveda and all, we've done a bunch of exporting.

    20. SPSpeaker1:31:40

        Yeah, but still the UK still, like, if you look at Kama Forest, they're only in the UK. Like, nobody's really-

    21. DKDiipa Khosla1:31:44

        But I feel like that's a big-

    22. SPSpeaker1:31:44

        dominated the US

    23. DKDiipa Khosla1:31:45

        ... step, right, from-

    24. SPSpeaker1:31:47

        For sure

    25. DKDiipa Khosla1:31:47

        ... for a brand to go outside of India-

    26. SPSpeaker1:31:50

        For sure

    27. DKDiipa Khosla1:31:50

        ... have this stunning presence-

    28. SPSpeaker1:31:52

        Absolutely

    29. DKDiipa Khosla1:31:52

        ... and for people to kind of bench it on global-

    30. SPSpeaker1:31:56

        Yeah
17. 1:34:51 – 1:42:15

    Cracking influencer marketing

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:34:52

       I'm starting a brand. I have figured out maybe how to make a deal with salons, if it's in hair. I figured out a old product I can bring back and sell nostalgia. I have added the Indian narrative to it, patriotism. I found a emotion. I've doubled down on the emotion. I talk to the people who follow me, the few people. I listen, and I speak to them on- often. And I've figured out that I have one hero product that I'm starting with. That product is, let's say, a moisturizer, okay? For the lack of a better word. Omnichannel, I'm on Tira, I'm in some physical stores, I'm selling online, all of that. Now, I have come to a point where I've realized that all of this is only taking it so far, and I need to figure out my influencing and marketing piece. How do I do that?

    2. SDShantanu Deshpande1:35:48

       Are you sure the product works?

    3. NKNikhil Kamath1:35:51

       The 100-

    4. SDShantanu Deshpande1:35:52

       The hero product question, like for you.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath1:35:53

       The 100 people I'm speaking to right now are buying it.

    6. SDShantanu Deshpande1:35:56

       So repeat rates are 70, 80%?

    7. NKNikhil Kamath1:35:58

       Yeah.

    8. SDShantanu Deshpande1:35:59

       Then, then I th- my view is, my, my view has always been like that influencer... The best influencers are your current customers, and the best-

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:08

       Not celebrities who I can-

    10. SDShantanu Deshpande1:36:10

        Not, not, not early on, no. My view is just take the product and start sending it to celebrities, and see who starts liking it.

    11. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:16

        Can I do that?

    12. SDShantanu Deshpande1:36:17

        Yeah.

    13. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:17

        Just send it to them, and they'll post it?

    14. SDShantanu Deshpande1:36:18

        Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    15. DKDiipa Khosla1:36:20

        Has a celebrity posted for you just by sending it to them?

    16. SDShantanu Deshpande1:36:23

        Oh, plenty of times. Yeah, plenty of times.

    17. DKDiipa Khosla1:36:23

        Oh, that's lovely.

    18. SDShantanu Deshpande1:36:24

        Who? Man, m- multiple. So we s- sent it to Ranvijay, we sent it to Ashwin, we sent it to...

    19. DKDiipa Khosla1:36:31

        Who's Ashwin?

    20. SDShantanu Deshpande1:36:32

        The cri... off-spinner. The Indian cricketer.

    21. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:34

        If she's asking who, there's a problem with the celebrity. [laughing]

    22. SDShantanu Deshpande1:36:38

        [laughing]

    23. SPSpeaker1:36:38

        [laughing]

    24. SDShantanu Deshpande1:36:38

        He's a cricketer, so-

    25. DKDiipa Khosla1:36:39

        Just a different, different demographic.

    26. SDShantanu Deshpande1:36:41

        Legend cricketer.

    27. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:41

        Mm.

    28. SDShantanu Deshpande1:36:42

        Uh...... when we launched the head shaver, we had sent it to Raghu and Rajiv. Uh-

    29. NKNikhil Kamath1:36:48

        They posted?

    30. SDShantanu Deshpande1:36:49

        Uh-huh. Raghu, Rajiv, in fact-
18. 1:42:15 – 1:48:07

    Sampling, distribution & minis

    1. SDShantanu Deshpande1:42:15

       I also think sampling distribution is a huge opportunity which we don't-

    2. BMBhakti Modi1:42:18

       Yes

    3. SDShantanu Deshpande1:42:18

       ... do well enough on.

    4. NKNikhil Kamath1:42:19

       Explain.

    5. DKDiipa Khosla1:42:19

       100%.

    6. SDShantanu Deshpande1:42:19

       Like, for example, uh, like my favorite example of-

    7. DKDiipa Khosla1:42:22

       Mm

    8. SDShantanu Deshpande1:42:22

       ... sampling distribution is Uncle Chips.

    9. BMBhakti Modi1:42:24

       Mm.

    10. SDShantanu Deshpande1:42:24

        Uncle Chips distributors would go with, like, big malas of Uncle Chips around their neck and go into a village, and the kids would like-

    11. DKDiipa Khosla1:42:30

        Did they?

    12. SDShantanu Deshpande1:42:30

        Yeah, kids would just come-

    13. DKDiipa Khosla1:42:32

        Wow

    14. SDShantanu Deshpande1:42:32

        ... and he would feed a chip here, feed, feed a chip there. Suddenly, kids are buying, moms are there, so-

    15. DKDiipa Khosla1:42:35

        That is full guerrilla marketing.

    16. SDShantanu Deshpande1:42:37

        Yeah.

    17. DKDiipa Khosla1:42:37

        I love it.

    18. SDShantanu Deshpande1:42:37

        So with, with fragrances, like going into a college fest, for example, with like a whole suitcase of your perfumeric innovations-

    19. DKDiipa Khosla1:42:45

        Mm

    20. SDShantanu Deshpande1:42:45

        ... yourself smelling really great, would be great for them.

    21. NKNikhil Kamath1:42:47

        What is, what is the word you used for this? Sampling?

    22. BMBhakti Modi1:42:49

        Sampling.

    23. DKDiipa Khosla1:42:50

        Sampling.

    24. SDShantanu Deshpande1:42:50

        Yeah, sampling, like-

    25. BMBhakti Modi1:42:52

        ... you basically get a sachet of something or a trial, not even a trial pack. It's, it's, it's a small sampling, sample that you can use for maybe two or three washes, or two or three, uh, moisturizing-

    26. DKDiipa Khosla1:43:03

        You can also do it really well-

    27. BMBhakti Modi1:43:05

        - sessions

    28. DKDiipa Khosla1:43:06

        ... with a Tira, where you say, "Hey, Tira, I'm gonna give you 100,000 samples."

    29. BMBhakti Modi1:43:10

        Samples.

    30. DKDiipa Khosla1:43:10

        "Put it in every order, every time somebody buys."
19. 1:48:07 – 1:52:54

    Sustainability: Do founders still care?

    1. SDShantanu Deshpande1:48:07

       act- I actually want- was gonna ask you-

    2. BMBhakti Modi1:48:08

       And that's just from the limited knowledge that I have, that, you know, it's, uh, brands don't like minis as much as consumers do.

    3. DKDiipa Khosla1:48:14

       Correct. That's true.

    4. SDShantanu Deshpande1:48:15

       I was actually gonna ask you whether sustainability is something Billup cares about a lot, because that's another Gen Z trend.

    5. DKDiipa Khosla1:48:20

       Yes.

    6. SDShantanu Deshpande1:48:20

       I don't think that's a trend right now. It was a trend yesterday.

    7. DKDiipa Khosla1:48:23

       No, it's a, it's a bare minimum.

    8. SDShantanu Deshpande1:48:25

       Yeah.

    9. DKDiipa Khosla1:48:25

       I think you have to care about it.

    10. BMBhakti Modi1:48:27

        But I, I-

    11. SDShantanu Deshpande1:48:27

        Yeah

    12. BMBhakti Modi1:48:27

        ... don't, I don't know. I... Do you think that-

    13. DKDiipa Khosla1:48:29

        I think, again, maybe-

    14. BMBhakti Modi1:48:30

        Do you think sustainability is also-

    15. SDShantanu Deshpande1:48:31

        Do you think something sells more because you-

    16. BMBhakti Modi1:48:31

        ... a little bit of affluence?

    17. SDShantanu Deshpande1:48:33

        Yeah.

    18. DKDiipa Khosla1:48:34

        Does something sell more because sustainable? Maybe in India, not as much yet, but I think, again, the Gen Z value is starting to become more important. And for me, as a founder, I don't want to clutter the market more. Like, if you look at even just sustainable in every measure, they say. You know, our packaging is mostly glass, so it can be recycled better.

    19. SDShantanu Deshpande1:48:52

        Mm.

    20. DKDiipa Khosla1:48:53

        We have six SKUs in three and a half years.... we're not in the business of building 200 SKUs, 300 SKUs, clutter the market. Like, we really are like hero product strategy only.

    21. NKNikhil Kamath1:49:03

        Mm-hmm.

    22. DKDiipa Khosla1:49:03

        Talk to the consumers, what do they want? Build it for them, and then really put all your marketing might in six SKUs instead of, "Which one am I picking here?" Like, uh, am I playing... You know, you're gambling then. So I think sustainability for me as a founder is very important because you're-

    23. NKNikhil Kamath1:49:18

        Do you put it on every product?

    24. DKDiipa Khosla1:49:20

        That we're sustainable? No, because it's a given. Like, I don't, I don't need to scream about it.

    25. NKNikhil Kamath1:49:24

        I agree with that. That's why I don't think putting sustainability will sell more.

    26. DKDiipa Khosla1:49:28

        No.

    27. SDShantanu Deshpande1:49:28

        No, so I'll tell you where I'm coming from. The reason is, I think today's Gen Z, whether it comes to food or personal care, actually cares about the product inside the bottle-

    28. DKDiipa Khosla1:49:35

        Yeah

    29. SDShantanu Deshpande1:49:35

        ... not the bottle so much.

    30. NKNikhil Kamath1:49:36

        Mm.
20. 1:52:54 – 2:04:39

    What’s the next wave?

    1. NKNikhil Kamath1:52:54

       said honest so many times. Like, I am as far removed an expert in this industry as anyone can be, but looking from afar, it feels like the sustainable, organic, natural movement happened when... Was it Jessica Alba started the Honest Company, which was six, seven years ago?

    2. SDShantanu Deshpande1:53:19

       Long back. 10 years back.

    3. NKNikhil Kamath1:53:20

       10 years ago?

    4. DKDiipa Khosla1:53:20

       I would say so, yeah.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath1:53:22

       I feel like the-

    6. DKDiipa Khosla1:53:22

       Goop, Gwyneth Paltrow.

    7. NKNikhil Kamath1:53:24

       Yeah.

    8. DKDiipa Khosla1:53:24

       Yeah.

    9. NKNikhil Kamath1:53:24

       Goop.

    10. DKDiipa Khosla1:53:25

        Yeah.

    11. NKNikhil Kamath1:53:25

        I feel like the wave after that was the wave of actives.

    12. DKDiipa Khosla1:53:29

        Yeah.

    13. SDShantanu Deshpande1:53:29

        Yes.

    14. NKNikhil Kamath1:53:30

        Which was maybe a couple of years ago.

    15. DKDiipa Khosla1:53:32

        Mm-hmm.

    16. NKNikhil Kamath1:53:33

        And most companies that I looked at, which did really well, were companies that caught on to a change in cycle before the cycle changed.

    17. DKDiipa Khosla1:53:42

        Mm-hmm.

    18. NKNikhil Kamath1:53:43

        I think Minimalist-

    19. SDShantanu Deshpande1:53:43

        Yeah

    20. NKNikhil Kamath1:53:43

        ... was exactly in that spot.

    21. DKDiipa Khosla1:53:45

        Mm-hmm.

    22. NKNikhil Kamath1:53:46

        So my question to you guys is, if the active cycles is midway-

    23. DKDiipa Khosla1:53:52

        Mm.

    24. NKNikhil Kamath1:53:52

        ... what comes next, and what can I build to catch on to the next cycle-

    25. SDShantanu Deshpande1:53:56

        Yeah

    26. NKNikhil Kamath1:53:56

        ... before the others come?

    27. SDShantanu Deshpande1:53:57

        I think, yeah, I, I don't think it's about sustainability. I think it's... I think the Gen, Gen Z, younger consumers are actually, what we are now starting to realize, are skinimalists. Just give me what I need, don't give me extra.

    28. NKNikhil Kamath1:54:07

        What is this now?

    29. DKDiipa Khosla1:54:08

        Skin minimalism.

    30. NKNikhil Kamath1:54:09

        Skin minimalism.
21. 2:04:39 – 2:09:48

    How the world perceives India

    1. NKNikhil Kamath2:04:39

       Indians known for?

    2. DKDiipa Khosla2:04:40

       What else are Indians known for? Weddings.

    3. SPSpeaker2:04:42

       Yoga. Yoga.

    4. DKDiipa Khosla2:04:43

       Spirituality-

    5. BMBhakti Modi2:04:44

       Yeah

    6. DKDiipa Khosla2:04:44

       ... wellness.

    7. BMBhakti Modi2:04:46

       I think, uh, just their-

    8. SPSpeaker2:04:48

       Food

    9. BMBhakti Modi2:04:48

       ... l- their, their warmth and love for food, I think that's another one.

    10. DKDiipa Khosla2:04:51

        Food. Food's a biggie, yeah.

    11. BMBhakti Modi2:04:51

        Food, food is huge.

    12. SPSpeaker2:04:53

        Bollywood?

    13. BMBhakti Modi2:04:54

        Just color.

    14. NKNikhil Kamath2:04:55

        We have to build on those things when we build a brand.

    15. SPSpeaker2:04:58

        If you want to build a global brand, yes.

    16. DKDiipa Khosla2:04:59

        Because it's subconscious. Like, I think what, what then... It's like the winds are behind you, that's helping you. Like with Koreans, any Korean brand can launch something now, and we're all like, "Ah-

    17. SPSpeaker2:05:09

        Yeah. [laughs]

    18. DKDiipa Khosla2:05:09

        ... Korean skincare," like, "Let's put it all over us."

    19. SPSpeaker2:05:12

        Yeah.

    20. DKDiipa Khosla2:05:12

        So like, go where something co- consumers already are thinking of you with that, so then you not have to, like, train them to change their mindset. You're like, "Okay, you think Indians do good haircare? Here, and exhibit A, my mom, who has hair down to her ankles, and she's 63 years old."

    21. NKNikhil Kamath2:05:27

        Does she?

    22. DKDiipa Khosla2:05:28

        She does, yeah. She has really, [chuckles] really long hair. Um, and so it's like, you give that exhibit, and like the same way shea butter came from Africa. SheaMoisture is a brand in the US that sells like insane. It's one of the best haircare brands there. And the story is, the grandmother on the side of the road sold shea butter, and, and look at her hair and how amazing it made. And that story, they've kind of built over the last, I think, two or three decades, and it's this amazing... Uh, and now shea butter is really, you know, the ingredient for moisture and retention.

    23. SPSpeaker2:06:01

        And we've seen this happen in India, by the way.

    24. NKNikhil Kamath2:06:02

        Indians are known for hair, also, what else? Weddings.

    25. DKDiipa Khosla2:06:06

        Weddings, we said food.

    26. BMBhakti Modi2:06:08

        Yeah, I think just-

    27. SPSpeaker2:06:08

        Yeah

    28. NKNikhil Kamath2:06:08

        Animals

    29. BMBhakti Modi2:06:09

        ... their, their, um-

    30. NKNikhil Kamath2:06:10

        Huh? Animals.
22. 2:09:48 – 2:16:10

    Tech’s role in customising

    1. NKNikhil Kamath2:09:48

       here to identify which product? Let's say we are doing morning, night. There's two products. Morning has sunscreen, plus moisturizer, plus niacinamide, plus vitamin C. Night has peptides-

    2. NKNikhil Kamath2:10:04

       Peptides.

    3. DKDiipa Khosla2:10:04

       Retinol.

    4. NKNikhil Kamath2:10:05

       ... magnesium and retinol?

    5. DKDiipa Khosla2:10:07

       Yeah.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath2:10:08

       Okay.

    7. DKDiipa Khosla2:10:08

       Good!

    8. NKNikhil Kamath2:10:09

       And if we combine- if we have two bottles in the bathroom, A, I would love that, 'cause it removes so much clutter. Is there a tech play to figure out Deepa's morning is different from Nikhil's morning, and Bhakti's night is different from Shantanu's?

    9. DKDiipa Khosla2:10:27

       Using AI?

    10. NKNikhil Kamath2:10:28

        Using anything. AI.

    11. DKDiipa Khosla2:10:29

        If you have enough data, for sure.

    12. NKNikhil Kamath2:10:31

        No, just about taking a picture of your face and asking a generic AI to tell you which product do you... Which, either pick Morning 1 or Morning 2.

    13. DKDiipa Khosla2:10:41

        I mean, there's a lot of advances in that. My only concern with that, then, is, are you going with the model of hyper-personalization?

    14. BMBhakti Modi2:10:47

        Yeah.

    15. DKDiipa Khosla2:10:47

        Because then operationally, I, I don't know how that's gonna work. Um-

    16. BMBhakti Modi2:10:51

        That's what we were saying, right?

    17. DKDiipa Khosla2:10:52

        Yeah.

    18. BMBhakti Modi2:10:52

        If it's, it's just too many permutations, combinations, and-

    19. NKNikhil Kamath2:10:54

        What if you only have three SKUs? Three mornings and three nights.

    20. DKDiipa Khosla2:10:58

        Okay, then, then it can work.

    21. BMBhakti Modi2:10:59

        Yeah, then it can work.

    22. NKNikhil Kamath2:11:00

        One, one is right for me, one is right for you.

    23. DKDiipa Khosla2:11:00

        Then you come on the website, you come on the website, you show-

    24. BMBhakti Modi2:11:03

        Do your quiz

    25. DKDiipa Khosla2:11:04

        ... take a photo, do a quiz, give your details, and-

    26. NKNikhil Kamath2:11:06

        No quiz, nothing. No questions.

    27. DKDiipa Khosla2:11:08

        Just photo.

    28. BMBhakti Modi2:11:09

        Just, yeah-

    29. NKNikhil Kamath2:11:09

        Just photo

    30. BMBhakti Modi2:11:09

        ... that's fine as well. We can tell you there's skin analyzers that'll tell you, "Okay, these are your key-"
23. 2:16:10 – 2:18:14

    Nikhil’s & Diipa’s tattoos

    1. DKDiipa Khosla2:16:10

       What do they say?

    2. NKNikhil Kamath2:16:11

       Uh, so my job is that of a trader on the stock market, it's primary job. So delay gratification is a reminder not to sell stuff fast, which I tend to do a lot. [chuckles]

    3. DKDiipa Khosla2:16:24

       Without the tattoo, you would forget? Be patient.

    4. NKNikhil Kamath2:16:27

       I don't remember with the tattoo, so [chuckles] ... Be here now is not... I have a tendency to procrastinate. I spent a lot of my li- life thinking what will happen five years from now, 10 years from now, that. This says, "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you," which I feel like is a simple moral if you had to pick one to live by. Yeah.

    5. DKDiipa Khosla2:16:56

       I like that.

    6. NKNikhil Kamath2:16:57

       And it's my handwriting.

    7. DKDiipa Khosla2:16:58

       I like that. And all together or in different moments in life?

    8. NKNikhil Kamath2:17:02

       Different moments in life.

    9. NKNikhil Kamath2:17:03

       It's really nice.

    10. DKDiipa Khosla2:17:04

        Very cool.

    11. NKNikhil Kamath2:17:04

        And the date of when I got it is also there.

    12. DKDiipa Khosla2:17:07

        Hmm.

    13. NKNikhil Kamath2:17:08

        See, there's 2013.

    14. DKDiipa Khosla2:17:10

        Very cool.

    15. NKNikhil Kamath2:17:12

        Do you have tattoos?

    16. DKDiipa Khosla2:17:13

        Yeah, a bunch. This one is the funniest. Back then, tattoos used to be quite, um, the thick.

    17. NKNikhil Kamath2:17:19

        Mm.

    18. DKDiipa Khosla2:17:19

        Now you can make them really thin and beautiful-

    19. NKNikhil Kamath2:17:21

        Yeah

    20. DKDiipa Khosla2:17:21

        ... but, like, these are bleeding a little into each other. But it's Roman, and it's like a conversation starter. Every time someone's like, "Oh, what does your tattoo say?" I'm like, "Decode it." [laughing]

    21. NKNikhil Kamath2:17:31

        [laughing]

    22. DKDiipa Khosla2:17:31

        But it basically is, um, Roman numerals for, um, the letter G, is the 11th letter in the alphabet, R-I-T. So when I was in my final year in high school, I did a thesis on what makes people successful. I think it was my social psychology class or something. I was obsessed with how do people become successful? What is it that makes them different from everybody else? And, um, long story short, the end answer was grit. That whether you have money or not, whether you're beautiful or not, whether you have the right people, if you just have grit, uh, that was a common denominator in every successful person. And so I was like, "I need to tattoo that."

    23. NKNikhil Kamath2:18:13

        What is

24. 2:18:14 – 2:19:47

    Why founders need grit

    1. NKNikhil Kamath2:18:14

       the biggest thing you have going for you? Why is Deepa successful?

    2. DKDiipa Khosla2:18:19

       Why is Deepa successful? Ooh, can I have multiple answers?

    3. NKNikhil Kamath2:18:24

       One.

    4. DKDiipa Khosla2:18:26

       Grit.

    5. NKNikhil Kamath2:18:29

       In the face of adversity?

    6. DKDiipa Khosla2:18:31

       Yeah.

    7. NKNikhil Kamath2:18:32

       Adversity being?

    8. DKDiipa Khosla2:18:34

       I mean, as an entrepreneur, as a founder, you're hit with, like, the velocity and the amount of shit that hits you on a [chuckles] daily basis, and whether it's rejections, or no's, or things not working out, and I think a good founder and entrepreneur is the one who's able to take that and come on the other side over, and over, and over again. Even when you think, "Finally, I'm on the other side, the sun is shining, you know, the sales are great," something else will come around. So I think people who can really withstand that will end up being good entrepreneurs, according to me.

    9. NKNikhil Kamath2:19:08

       And pre-entrepreneurship?

    10. DKDiipa Khosla2:19:09

        Pre-entrepreneurship, um, I think I just really wanted to be somebody that did something with her life. Like, I wanted to be... like, leave a mark. I know it sounds a bit cliche, but my biggest fear was to die ordinary. I'm like, what if, what if I don't become an anybody or nobody? Like, you, you get this one life to live, make it count, you know? So that was something that always kept me going as a child. Like, make sure you do something worthwhile, make sure your life means something, and make sure it also means something bigger than yourself.

    11. NKNikhil Kamath2:19:45

        Interesting. Digressing

25. 2:19:47 – 2:34:10

    Bhakti & Tira’s origin story

    1. NKNikhil Kamath2:19:47

       from our subject for a second, you didn't tell us about how you started Tira, and you didn't finish what happened after McKinsey. Maybe we do a little bit of your lives.

    2. DKDiipa Khosla2:19:57

       Yeah.

    3. NKNikhil Kamath2:19:57

       You wanna go first?

    4. DKDiipa Khosla2:19:58

       Okay, um, so I had nothing to do with beauty. I started sta- you know, uh, did my undergrad in psychology and communication. Graduated, and I was... got, got my first job at Macy's, but, um, I-

    5. BMBhakti Modi2:20:14

       ... you know, in, uh, as a management trainee, and then in fashion, you weren't really going to get, you know, anything post your OPD. So, um, my dad was like, "Come home and, you know, figure it out." So had nothing, had no, no plan. I think I've always kind of been, um, I like to say, good at many things and, you know, uh, like I, I, I, I was, I was average at a lot of things. I was good at a lot of things, and I think, uh, so always trying to find that one purpose, that kind of, you know, what is it that, that will make me feel, "Oh, wow, I've got it as well?" You know, because you keep looking at other people, and everyone has something about them, or they know what they wanna do. So I think-

    6. SPSpeaker2:20:54

       And I think it can be easy having a dad like your dad, as well.

    7. BMBhakti Modi2:20:59

       Yeah, but I, I, I don't, I don't think-

    8. NKNikhil Kamath2:21:01

       I feel the opposite is true.

    9. SPSpeaker2:21:02

       Yeah.

    10. NKNikhil Kamath2:21:02

        It can or it can't be easy.

    11. SPSpeaker2:21:04

        I think it depends on the kid.

    12. NKNikhil Kamath2:21:05

        The unhappiest-

    13. SPSpeaker2:21:06

        Yeah

    14. NKNikhil Kamath2:21:06

        ... people I know are people who have these really, really large figures as their parents, 'cause happiness is always relative, and you get your validation when you get something beyond what they have.

    15. BMBhakti Modi2:21:19

        Mm.

    16. SPSpeaker2:21:19

        But, but-

    17. NKNikhil Kamath2:21:20

        And if you start at that scale... Like, I could have gone from A to B and got validated. She has to go from Z to Z plus.

    18. SPSpeaker2:21:27

        Yeah.

    19. BMBhakti Modi2:21:27

        But I don't think... I think that when I've, um, I... What I liked about my childhood was, um, yeah, I grew up in a conservative household. My parents were strict, you know, follow deadlines. I, I wasn't, wasn't allowed to be out till 1:00 AM. My dad always opened the door, even, you know, didn't have the keys to my house, even when I grew up. But I think that the one thing that I'm very grateful for is that I grew up without pressure. I grew up, as I said-

    20. NKNikhil Kamath2:21:52

        Sweetie, that's probably because people were trying to kidnap you. [laughing]

    21. BMBhakti Modi2:21:54

        [laughing] No, I, I, I, I think-

    22. SPSpeaker2:21:59

        KGB

    23. BMBhakti Modi2:21:59

        ... I think that's what, that trend has kind of followed me. I, you know, graduated and then came here, and as a 21-year-old, was very enamored with this whole retail side, right? And Reliance Brands had just started up. And, um, my first ever gig was when, uh, you know, uh, uh, Darshan, uh, told me, he's like: "Okay, you want to work in retail, then you need to know how to sell."

    24. SPSpeaker2:22:24

        Mm.

    25. BMBhakti Modi2:22:24

        So my first job was selling shoes on the Timberland store front. He said, "You will be allowed-

    26. SPSpeaker2:22:29

        Wow

    27. BMBhakti Modi2:22:29

        ... to enter my office after you want to, you know, after you can, you've actually sold, sold something." And I was like: "Okay, cool. I'll, I'll do it." So I've, I've done the, you know, the six to eight-month b-, you know, uh, uh, shop front associate, sales associate job, and I was selling, selling Timberland shoes, and in Mumbai, where the weather is completely, you know, not accustomed to selling winter wear. And, um, I learned something... I, I learnt this one rule from my, my boss at that time, where he said that it's, it's a rule in the retail industry that for, particularly for footwear, so if someone's coming to buy, uh, uh, you know, buy one pair of shoes, you bring out three for them, because if you don't, they don't like that one, you sell them-

    28. NKNikhil Kamath2:23:12

        Very good

    29. BMBhakti Modi2:23:12

        ... they, you make them try the other two.

    30. NKNikhil Kamath2:23:14

        That's very good.

Episode duration: 3:36:40