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Origin Story w/ David McIntosh JrOrigin Story w/ David McIntosh Jr

Daniel Sloss on Grief, Truth-Telling, and Why His Parents Found Out About His Virginity on Stage

Daniel Sloss is a comedian, author, and father. From a 17-year-old at Edinburgh's Stand Comedy Club to causing 100,000 breakups worldwide, Daniel Sloss shares the moments that nearly broke him, and ultimately transformed him, on his journey to becoming one of comedy's most authentic voices. In this episode, Daniel takes us inside the make-or-break moments behind his career, including the night his Netflix specials dropped and he sat reading 3,000 DMs on ecstasy, the devastating spiral of drinking 3/4 bottle of whiskey on stage every night during his global tour, and the moment his wife told him to go back on the road because staying home was driving them both mad. He reveals how his parents drove him to gigs as a teenager and learned he'd lost his virginity by watching his set, why refusing to move to London's "clicky bullshit" scene was the best decision he made, and how Eddie Izzard convinced him to tour Europe when he thought nobody would understand his comedy. Daniel also reflects on the bold move that defined his career - being the only UK comedian to speak out when everyone else stepped back - the price of doing the right thing, and the bittersweet reality of achieving global fame while hating himself at the peak of success. This is a candid conversation about Robot Wars, imposter syndrome, becoming a father, grief, comedy as truth-telling, and why "I'm Daniel and Dad now" matters more than any sold-out show. Follow Daniel Sloss 📸 Instagram 👉 @danielsloss 🎫 Tour dates 👉 danielsloss.com Origin Story takes you behind the scenes with the people whose work has shaped your life. Hosted by David McIntosh, each episode explores the pivotal moments, unexpected challenges, and hard-won lessons from creators, comedians, and change makers who've built something extraordinary. Content Warning: This episode contains strong language throughout, and discussions of sexual assault, grief, death, suicide, addiction, and mental health struggles.

David McIntosh JrhostDaniel Slossguest
Feb 7, 20261h 33mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 1:11

    Sliding into Sloss’s mom’s DMs: how the booking happened

    1. DJ

      Daniel Sloss, welcome to Origin Story

    2. DS

      Oh, shit. Yeah. Right. [laughs]

    3. DJ

      [laughs] Man, I wanna just say thank you. I'm a fucking massive fan.

    4. DS

      I, I wouldn't be here if you weren't. [laughs]

    5. DJ

      [laughs]

    6. DS

      I'd say I'm done with challenging interviews. [laughs]

    7. DJ

      [laughs] Uh, I, I wanna break the fourth wall here, right? So my podcast has been through, like, a few reiterations over the last five years. It's one of those things I started in lockdown.

    8. DS

      Mm-hmm.

    9. DJ

      Messaged or emailed anyone, anyhow, for them to come on. And, uh, I think I listened to you speak to mutual friend Chris Williamson.

    10. DS

      Yes.

    11. DJ

      Um, I think there were a couple episodes then I was like, "Oh," like fell in love with this guy. Not literally, but-

    12. DS

      Yeah, yeah, yeah

    13. DJ

      ... with his comedy. And, uh, and he's, uh, he's thinking, "How do I get him on my show?"

    14. DS

      Yeah.

    15. DJ

      And I heard you say in an interview that your mum m- either managed you at the time or used to manage you, and I had her on LinkedIn.

    16. DS

      Yes.

    17. DJ

      So weirdly, typ- like really weirdly, I messaged... I DM, I DM'd his mom. I slid into his mom's DMs.

    18. DS

      Yeah. Mm-hmm.

    19. DJ

      I asked for a contact or asked for an intro, and she said, uh, "Here's his agent's details. G- uh, God luck." Then corrected herself and said, "Good luck. God has nothing to do with it. He doesn't even exist." [laughs]

    20. DS

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

    21. DJ

      Like pissed myself out loud, and I just think that was such a good insight into your family, man, and your upbringing and like your-

  2. 1:11 – 2:04

    Teenage stand-up logistics: forum trawling, lifts to gigs, first milestones

    1. DS

      Yeah, and also, uh, my mom was never tr- Oh, yeah, that's not true. She was never my fucking manager. She still runs my website.

    2. DJ

      Mm-hmm.

    3. DS

      Um, but just because I don't do anything for myself apart from, you know, the jokes and the touring stuff. Uh, but when I started, when I was still at high school, she would, uh, trawl the Scottish comedy forum for any, like, open spots, uh, at... 'Cause I wasn't allowed internet access at school, obviously, 'cause it was back in the fucking early 2000s. Um, and then she would message me during the school day being like, "Oh, you know, there's five minutes at Blackfriars tonight in Glasgow. Do you want that?" Or, you know, "There's 10 at the fucking Beehive or the Mercat Bar in Edinburgh. Should I sign you up for that?" And I would sign up. I would say, "Yes," and then I'd, you know, get the bus home, or sometimes she'd have to pick me up and drive me to Edinburgh or Glasgow to go and do these, these, these gigs 'cause I, you know, couldn't drive when I started.

  3. 2:04 – 3:57

    Early material, censorship, and pride in the ‘shaving vs sex talk’ joke

    1. DJ

      That's quality, man. When I was out doing my research for this podcast, I turned on YouTube and went on like the archive hunt, and I saw one of your first gigs here at The Stand where we're filming today. Not this exact venue.

    2. DS

      Mm-hmm.

    3. DJ

      The one in Edinburgh. And just seeing, like that was 17 years ago. You were young as fuck.

    4. DS

      Yeah.

    5. DJ

      And, I mean, I watched that bit about shaving and sex.

    6. DS

      Which was mad. Fucking the shaving gag never... You know, it ne- it never, it, in the, in this time of, like, uh, all good content ends up on the fucking internet, and the... You know, uh, post fucking the Netflix special era. Um, I really wanted a place for the shaving joke, 'cause that was my big closer, and I think at the time, like, it was the best joke I'd ever written, and it was such a good... I'm still so proud. It's one of the very few gags I'm like, "That was a great gag." Um, I did it everywhere. Like, people gave me fucking credit for it. And then I, I only got, really got to do it once on The Paul O'Grady Show. But because Paul O'Grady was pre-watershed, they wanted to change so much of it, and they made it worse. Like, so the whole concept of the joke was my dad comes up and talks to me, and I, I think he's giving me the sex talk, but he's actually giving me the shaving talk, and it's about, like, all the fucking innuendos. So like, "Oh, the first time you do it, there'll be a little bit of blood." And it's, you know, that's the whole gag but with several iterations of that fucking punchline. So the line was, my dad said, said, "There'll be a little bit of blood." And fucking whatever channel Paul O'Grady was on, Channel 4, BBC, they were like, "It's pre-watershed. You can't say blood. Can you say mess instead?" And I'm like, mess in that context is objectively worse. Like, if there's mess when you're shaving-

    7. DJ

      [laughs]

    8. DS

      ... if there's mess when you're shagging. Like it's, in both iterations, it's much more disgust- But, you know, that's what they fucking wanted it to be. Um, God, I should rewrite that joke and put it out there. Give me a minute.

    9. DJ

      [laughs]

  4. 3:57 – 5:32

    Scottish circuit culture: support, intimidation, and the value of peer feedback

    1. DJ

      Man, I, I, I loved it, man. What was the perception of you at such a young age, like, around these comedy clubs, given that you weren't even old enough to buy a drink in them? Like, were people jealous of you and your breakthrough, or were people relatively supportive?

    2. DS

      The Scottish comedy circuit, I would say apart from the occasional, uh, cunt, you know, Alan Anderson, who's a cunt to everyone, um, I, I, I got, I really got a lot of support. Like, there were people who when I started out really intimidated me. Like, Kier McAllister terrified me, 'cause he was like a headliner, and he was a compere, and like on the Scottish comedy forums, he was quite outspoken about his views on other comedians, which now, you know, I fucking love, and I'm the exact same.

    3. DJ

      [laughs]

    4. DS

      As a 17-year-old, scared the shit out of me. But there was one bit of the Scottish comedy forums where, like, uh, it was just like you could review other comedians that you'd seen, and some people were really scathing, and some people were really fucking nice. And I was always getting really nice ones. And to... I... It's still at my mother's home, like at my parents' home in Fife where I grew up. I have all of those comments printed out, uh, and framed-

    5. DJ

      No

    6. DS

      ... uh, for like the... My mum made me this, uh, thing of like the first year of my career, which was like the first tenner that the Stand Comedy Club ever paid me I've still got framed, because that was the first time I ever got paid for comedy. My first reviews, uh, whether they were from other comedians or from, uh, you know... I think some fucking person reviewed a Red Raw night that I was on, and I got it. So it was all the first, like, paper clippings of me. I've still... My mum still has that, uh, in, in the house. I've not asked for it. Um, maybe I will.

  5. 5:32 – 7:53

    Family environment and intellect: PhD mum, programmer dad, ‘Robot Wars’ household

    1. DJ

      Your, uh... From what I've heard online, your parents seem quite eclectic and very supportive.

    2. DS

      Yes.

    3. DJ

      Um, could you, like, frame your family household growing up, what it was like for them?

    4. DS

      Um, y- I mean, really nice. You know, my, e- I've always been slightly intimidated by my parents' intellect. You know, my mom's got a PhD in biochem-chemistry and microbiology from the University of Edinburgh. Um, viciously intelligent woman who's, you know, from a very young age, her job was to, like, leave the country once every month or two months to Um, organized conferences, uh, around the world for first world nations and developing nations to help reduce our carbon footprint back in the day before people even fucking cared about that. That's always been her job. Um, and my dad, also Edinburgh University. I was about to say no degree, but he might... He's no- he doesn't have a PhD. He must have a degree. He's very smart. Um, and computer programmer, you know, can fix a- can fix anything. I've n- I couldn't, I couldn't program a computer. I can't install things. I don't know how computers work 'cause I've never needed to, 'cause my dad was always able to do that shit. You know, they were... My dad was on Robot Wars three, four times.

    5. DJ

      [laughs]

    6. DS

      [laughs] Do you know-

    7. DJ

      That paints a picture, man. That's sick.

    8. DS

      Yeah. Yeah. But no, my parents, you know, really... And, and, and supportive in a good way. Like, they were like, "We... You know, you have to do well in high school. You have to get into university, uh, as a backup. Like, if this is your dream, great, but you need to have a backup, 'cause, you know, there might not be a future in stand-up." Um, and then I fucking scraped by the skin of my teeth into Dundee University, um, to do a fucking history degree. God knows what I would've done with that. Um, and then instead of going, that was when my mum and dad were like, "Hey, you know, a lot of people take a gap year after university. Why don't you do a gap year before? But like, instead of, you know, going to Thailand or wherever, why don't you stay and see what happens with comedy?" Like, very-

    9. DJ

      Instead of being a rep at Ayia Napa. [laughs]

    10. DS

      Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Instead of handing out fucking spiked shots to a bunch of underage girls in Benidorm. [laughs]

    11. DJ

      [laughs]

    12. DS

      Why don't you... Why don't you see if The Stand will book you for 20 by the end of the year? [laughs]

  6. 7:53 – 10:23

    Robot Wars deep dive: the ‘too dangerous’ spinning blade that got restricted

    1. DJ

      Oh, tell me about Robot Wars. Didn't your dad build, like, a lethal death trap that got banned from it?

    2. DS

      Yeah. Yeah. So there was a robot called, uh... For anyone who's, like, old school classic Robot Wars fan, there was a robot called Hypnodisc, which we loved, which was a spinning horizontal disc that was... I, I, you know, I'm gonna make up the numbers here, 'cause I can't remember, but let's say it was, like, 15 horsepower, right? And it did a lot of damage. It destroyed so many other robots.

    3. DJ

      I remember that.

    4. DS

      Uh, yeah, yeah. And I think the disc itself probably only weighed... Maximum a robot could weigh was 100 kilograms. Only thing that could weigh more than that was house robots. So Hypnodisc's disc was about 25, 30 kilos. It was about a quarter of the thing's weight. Whereas my dad and his mates were like, "Oh, cool, if we just take that idea." But instead of... They got, like, the, the diamond-encrusted blades that they use on oil rigs-

    5. DJ

      [laughs]

    6. DS

      ... for, like, d- like, digging down through the rock, and that itself weighed I think 75 kilos. And they'd cut out, like, the bits of it to make it look like a bike with its spokes and stuff, and they stuck it on vertically, and I think they got it to, like, 100, 150 horsepower. So, like, the... But it became so powerful that would... Very rarely did they get it working. I don't think they realized how fucking dangerous the thing that they created was. Because when we did get it down to the, uh, into London to, to do it, like, the safety staff there were like, "That's fucked."

    7. DJ

      [laughs]

    8. DS

      Like, you know, if that comes off the, the robot... And you're all fucking amateurs, roboteers, so there's very... That comes off, that's designed to go through rock. That will go through bulletproof glass and kill everyone in the crowd. So we weren't, um, we weren't allowed to use it as a weapon, um, because it was like, you know, it was the only weapon we had. Uh, they were fucked on that. Uh, but then-

    9. DJ

      I can imagine, like, Ice has been on the phone to the commissioner like, "Look-

    10. DS

      Yeah

    11. DJ

      ... like, I know you guys are not broadcasting this, but we could use that for one of our torture videos." [laughs]

    12. DS

      Yeah, please. Yeah. Um, and he, he'd had, he had other, other robots. That was, like, the second or third robot they did. I think the first one they did was all torque, and that got to, like, the, uh, the finals of the first round. Um, you know, that was cool. Having a dad that makes robots is fucking, is awesome.

    13. DJ

      Mm.

    14. DS

      You know, that wa- it was a really cool part of my childhood.

    15. DJ

      I can imagine it all-

    16. DS

      And I'll never be that for my son. [laughs]

    17. DJ

      [laughs] Never.

    18. DS

      Never, ever.

    19. DJ

      I can imagine, like, that, like, unconventionality in your family kind of would've been supportive for you to go into comedy, a very unconventional misfit scene, you know?

  7. 10:23 – 14:11

    Humor, swearing, and open dialogue: parents learning his life on stage

    1. DS

      Yeah. I mean, humor was always just a big part of it, you know? 'Cause I, I think a lot of the time humor requires emotional intelligence. And, you know, my parents were always really logical with stuff. Like, I would get in trouble, but they weren't fucking cunts about it. You know, I remember... You know, I've always sworn. I always will swear, right? You just fucking... When I was seven years old, some stupid cunt of an adult-

    2. DJ

      [laughs]

    3. DS

      ... told me that these words had immense power and that I could upset pensioners with it.

    4. DJ

      Right.

    5. DS

      And I'm like, right, so none of these words are actually offensive. Somebody at some point decided they were offensive, and all these... Much like religion, a bunch of people just bought into the belief, uh, that these words hurt, and they're the ones that give those words power, and they give those words power over them. And I can just fucking upset people by saying these... That's the d- why on Earth, why are you giving me a loaded gun? Um, and I loved swearing, made me feel cool. Still does make me feel cool. Um, and then I would occasionally get in trouble at school for swearing too much, and, you know, my parents would be like, "You gotta stop swearing at school." And I'd be like, "Why?" And they're like, "Well, you know, fucking [laughs] 'cause, 'cause we don't wa- we, 'cause we can't, we don't wanna give you in trouble." And I'm like, "Well, you know..." So they, but their whole thing was like, "Don't swear. We can't tell you not to swear," right? "'Cause there is nothing wrong with it ultimately. But you need to understand the consequences of swearing, which is you'll upset your gran, you'll upset your granddad. They're a different generation, and you don't want to do that. So please make sure that you don't swear around your grandparents." And I was like, "Oh, okay, that makes sense. I'll do that." And they're like, "And also don't swear in front of teachers, because then they'll talk to us, and then we'll have to give you trouble, and we don't wanna give you in trouble for something that we don't think..." So they were always very lo- I c- I could talk myself out of getting in trouble a lot- Which I know sounds like shitty parenting, but it wasn't. There was always a dialogue with me and my parents. Um, you know, I could talk to them about anything. And then also that really benefited when I got into stand-up, 'cause I couldn't, I couldn't drive. My parents had to drive to all my fucking ... drive me to all my gigs, and they wanted to see it. So my parents were learning stuff about me when I spoke about it on stage, you know? My parents know when I lost my virginity because, you know, they saw me do tw- 10 sets about how I was a virgin and how much I loved wanking.

    6. DJ

      [laughs]

    7. DS

      And then fucking one October, I started talking about having sex with my girlfriend on stage.

    8. DJ

      [laughs]

    9. DS

      And they're like, "Oh! Oh, he's g- fu- all right. Well, he's got his hole in. That's interesting."

    10. DJ

      [laughs]

    11. DS

      And then I would talk about smoking weed and drinking. They'd be like, "Oh, fucking who's this cunt?" And, you know, uh, th- there was some awkward car rides back, but you know, they never made me ashamed of the stuff. They had open conversations with me, you know, especially about weed. They were like, "You know, you gotta understand, uh, addiction does run in our family. That's something you gotta be aware of for the future." I should've fucking listened to them.

    12. DJ

      Mm-hmm.

    13. DS

      I didn't. [laughs]

    14. DJ

      It reminds me of, uh ... You ever watch Dexter?

    15. DS

      Uh, the first season.

    16. DJ

      Yeah.

    17. DS

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    18. DJ

      So, like, Dexter has this inclination to kill, so his parents usher it into, like, a kind of responsible-

    19. DS

      Killing. Yeah, yeah

    20. DJ

      ... uh, killing. That, that's what they did with your humor, right? They're like-

    21. DS

      Yes

    22. DJ

      ... "Don't do it at school, but see these comedy club things?"

    23. DS

      Yeah.

    24. DJ

      Fuck, shit, cunt. They're all there.

    25. DS

      Absolutely. I, I ... And it's also, like, if you find somebody who's, uh ... If you find a kid who's, who's quite clearly a sociopath, you t- the best thing you can do is turn them into a surgeon.

    26. DJ

      Mm-hmm. [laughs]

    27. DS

      Like, I ... You know, you gotta ... You ... If people are different, it's ... You're, you're never going to stifle them. You're never gonna be able to stop them being that way. What you gotta do is learn how to, you know, utilize that. It's like the best fucking, uh, like, anti-hacking people for the government are always people that have tried to fucking hack the government, right? That's what you do. Like, "Hey, you're really good at this. Go and not fucking do that."

    28. DJ

      What do-

    29. DS

      And then-

  8. 14:11 – 15:34

    Online danger and vigilante justice: WoW grooming story + pedo-hunting critique

    1. DJ

      What do you think of these, uh, folk that play, like, 12-year-old girls online, though? [laughs]

    2. DS

      Yeah. Well, th- if it's the fucking ... If it's the mob pedo hunting, I think that's fucking insane.

    3. DJ

      [laughs]

    4. DS

      That's mob mentality. It's done. It's dumb. It's not justice. Don't get me wrong. Absolutely more needs to be done, uh, to stop it, but it's not vigilante justice from the most uneducated members of society-

    5. DJ

      [laughs]

    6. DS

      ... just looking for an excuse to batter someone.

    7. DJ

      Talking about pedos, uh-

    8. DS

      Which one do you want to talk about? [laughs]

    9. DJ

      [laughs] The, I remember hearing a story when you were young. You'd play a lot of World of Warcraft.

    10. DS

      Yes.

    11. DJ

      And, uh, your mom was very concerned about your online safety.

    12. DS

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    13. DJ

      So deployed one of her da- your dad's mates to-

    14. DS

      So this is the-

    15. DJ

      You know

    16. DS

      ... this is, this is a story about my friend, uh, which I co-opted for myself in a stand-up routine. I did steal that one. But yeah, I played a lot of World Co- World of Warcraft with a friend of mine. He was on a different server, and his dad was worried about his, uh, online safety, about being groomed and stuff. So he went into a server as a new character, tried to, you know, s- start talking to his own son. They became friends for a bit, but at one point he was like, "Uh, do you ... You know, where do you live?" And my friend Alex just replied, be like, "Mind your own business, you fucking pedo."

    17. DJ

      [laughs]

    18. DS

      Which I weirdo. [laughs] Uh, maybe I'll take that tactic with my ch- I mean, my children won't have access to fucking social media or whatever until they're 40, but ...

    19. DJ

      [laughs]

  9. 15:34 – 22:19

    Comedy origins and grief: sister’s death, funerals, and why jokes help

    1. DJ

      Do you remember the first time you made someone properly laugh? First time you did a bit.

    2. DS

      Um, yeah, yeah. I remember being young, and my da- you know, just Simpson impressions. You know, you know, my dad let me watch Simpsons. And, you know, whenever I could fucking quote, uh, any characters from that, even using it in c- context, that got, that got big laughs. My parents would always let me watch stand-up as well, um, s- on Fridays and Saturday nights, and then I would go into school, and I would, like, do the stand-up bits I'd seen to, like, my fr- uh, friends and be like, you know, "There was this comedian last night." That's why if you watch any of the, I don't know, first two years of my stand-up, I'm just doing an Ed Byrne impression.

    3. DJ

      [laughs]

    4. DS

      Like, I'm doing a fake Irish accent. I'm doing an Irish fucking cadence because I was obsessed with Ed Byrne. I thought, you know, he was the best, and that's how I learned to do it. And then, um, yeah, and then now I've got this shit.

    5. DJ

      [laughs] Did you crack a joke at your sister's funeral?

    6. DS

      I don't ... N- No. No, I wasn't, I wo- I wasn't allowed at the church service because my dad was like, "I'm not" ... My dad was so angry that there was a church service, you know. How fucking dare ... How, how dare anyone who loved this disabled girl go to a church and sing songs about some just God that took that innocent life away? My dad was like, "I'm not ... I will not have my son be part of that fucking bullshit." So I wasn't allowed to the church service, which I get and I understand. When I went to the burial afterwards, you know, my, my uncle and my aunt picked me up, and they drove me there, and I ... and they made sure, like, I knew what was happening. And then, uh, I remember when I got there, I remember my teachers were there. My primary school teachers were there. And you know the excitement of when you see your teachers outside of fucking school. You know? You just ... Man, it's like seeing a fucking tiger in the wild.

    7. DJ

      [laughs]

    8. DS

      You're like, "What the fuck are you doing in the high street? You live in the school."

    9. DJ

      [laughs]

    10. DS

      And I remember, like, waving to ... And they, obviously, they're not waving back. They're not like, "Hey."

    11. DJ

      [laughs]

    12. DS

      You know? It's just fucking ... It's, it's sad. Um, funeral. I'm sure I d- ... I don't know if I made, like, a specific joke. I was certainly trying to make people laugh on the day, um, because I think, you know, being, like, six or seven or however old I was, I don't think you really under- I don't think you know how to grieve at that age, you know? I was, you know, very, very sad, obviously, but, like, I didn't really know how to process it in any way. I went to go back to school the day my sister died, 'cause I was like, "All right. I've got the information. Let's fucking do this." Um, so no. I mean, I c- I remember making people laugh. God knows what it was. Probably wasn't funny. Probably wasn't appropriate. Um, but... Yeah, and I, and I also rem-rem-- I also remember being made to laugh as well.

    13. DJ

      Mm.

    14. DS

      And my, my uncle was very funny during that time. My dad was very funny. My mum was very funny during that time.

    15. DJ

      Do you think that's the role of comedy in society, is to, like, sweeten the pill during tough times?

    16. DS

      Yes. Yeah, and also most importantly to, you know, it's, y-you know, it's-- speaking truth... When people say "speaking truth to power," you know, they often think about it in a fucking political sense, right? Or in a religious sense. But power doesn't have to be an institution. Power can also be the scary things. You know, death is powerful. Speaking truth to power, you know, the, death is a very scary fucking thing. If you're able to speak truth to that in itself, if you're able to laugh at something powerful, you take away the power from it.

    17. DJ

      Mm.

    18. DS

      And I think that often is the, uh, the, the responsibility of comedy, and I think that's why some people have such an adverse reaction to it because, like, you know, for some people, especially if you've lost somebody recently in a really tragic way, people making jokes about death, that does fucking hurt. You know, I understand that. That, that death has an immense power over you because it's still really raw. It's still really fucking fresh. And, like, maybe, you know, at that moment in time, you know, it feels like somebody's pressing down on your neck, and somebody's making fun of the thing that's pressing down on your neck. And you're like, "Well, that's just gonna make them more mad." Um, but you know, I think co-comedy has a responsibility to be that. I also think that comedy has a responsibility to piss people off. Like, you know, get thicker skins.

    19. DJ

      [laughs]

    20. DS

      You know, you gotta learn to fucking occasionally get got as well. And you know, and I'm a, I'm a hypocrite like the fucking best of them, you know? I, I insult everyone. The second an insult comes my way I'm like, "Oh, hey. Hey, come on now. That's... It's not funny if it's about me." I think we all need to get fucking, um, better at that as well, you know? You gotta speak to truth to the power in yourself.

    21. DJ

      I interviewed a fella called David Pintrow, who was the creator of Cards Against Humanity.

    22. DS

      Oh, yeah.

    23. DJ

      And he's, like, a, a total, like, intellect, uh, sociologist and-

    24. DS

      Is he autistic?

    25. DJ

      Oh, definitely.

    26. DS

      Yeah.

    27. DJ

      Hugely.

    28. DS

      Yeah.

    29. DJ

      Like, the biggest. Um, but a great guy, and he says that the, the joke is more powerful than the sword, uh, or the punch.

    30. DS

      Yeah.

  10. 22:19 – 26:55

    Grief policing and memory: why laughing can honor the dead

    1. DS

      Yeah, I mean, it's got, you know, it's, it's, it's got to... Some people just don't understand that, and I, you know, I, I, I get that. I don't wanna fucking... I don't wanna police how anyone grieves.

    2. DJ

      Mm.

    3. DS

      But I find the people who don't grieve in the way that we grieve, which is making jokes about it, they do tend to police grief. Like, they're the ones being like, "Oh, you can't have loved this person in your life if you are making fun of them." And it's like, well, fucking, you're not honoring the memory of your dead cunt. Like-

    4. DJ

      [laughs] Dead cunt

    5. DS

      ... you know, if you, like, if you, if you're fucking sad all the time over whoever the fucking dead fuck is in your life-

    6. DJ

      [laughs]

    7. DS

      ... then congratulations. The only memory you've created, the only lasting memory that you've made of people that never met this person, is that they were joyless. You know? That you... Oh, they, oh, this dead person would've liked you making fun of them. Well, I'm glad they're dead then.

    8. DJ

      [laughs]

    9. DS

      You don't sound like a fun fucking person, realize. You know, uh, if you, you know, uh, you know, you've probably seen it, but the fucking, the great clip of, uh, Will Arnett and Conan O'Brien talking about when Conan's parents died. You've not seen this clip?

    10. DJ

      It, it resurfaced recently, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    11. DS

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Conan's mum and dad died really close together, and, uh, Will Arnett and Jason Bateman are just texting Conan, making really horrible fucking jokes about it.

    12. DJ

      [laughs]

    13. DS

      And Conan says in that when people are going, "Oh," he's like, "My dad would've loved this." And I think that is really... Death fucking sucks. The absence of someone you love will never, ever be fixed. It will never be fucking filled. You'll never get rid of that fucking void. Um, all you can do is change the power that death has over you of, like, feeling good whenever you think of that person instead of thinking about the fucking tragic loss, that you'll never, you know, you'll never get to hug them again. You'll never get to hear their voice again. You'll never get to get their advice again. But if you can, when thinking of them, think of all the fucking things that made you laugh, then great. Then that, that's a really good thing. I remember, you know, after my sister died, my dad very much, you know, I would say for at least two decades just- ... his, his way of dealing with it was to, like, not necessarily close himself off, but if you were to ask my dad what day my sister died, he wouldn't be able to tell you because he's just c- he would c- compartmentalize it, put it somewhere else, didn't wanna fucking think about it. My mom, I remember coming back from school, and she would just be ironing and watching, like, VHSs of my sister, and just sobbing the whole fucking time. And I remember being like, "Surely that's not good. Surely you can't be enjoying this." And my mom's thing was like, "This is ... I love this. Like, the fact that I'm still this sad, this ... The fact that, like, this still makes me feel that way means I still love her as much as I always loved her."

    14. DJ

      Mm.

    15. DS

      And she loved... She was like, "I'd never ever, ever want to lose that feeling." And I was like, oh, that seems way more powerful and way smarter than... I mean, look, the next time somebody dies in my life, I guarantee I'll go my dad's way. You know? When either of my parents die, I'll become a fucking shell of myself. Um, and it will take my friends, you know, making really horrific jokes about how they died to, to get me fucking out of it. But yeah.

    16. DJ

      Uh, I had a moment with Jimmy Carr on the podcast, and he taught me a lot about, like, young grief. And he says, "Grief is the price we pay for love. People die twice: the first time they die, and the second time that, that people stop saying their name."

    17. DS

      Yes.

    18. DJ

      I fucking love that as a bit. And like you s- it seems like your mom was just, like, keeping her alive-

    19. DS

      Yes

    20. DJ

      ... by watching it.

    21. DS

      Yeah.

    22. DJ

      Sweet mom.

    23. DS

      Yeah, yeah. And just, you know, I... This... It's really, really hard to think about the, uh, people we've lost. And also she's, she's... You know, my sister died, Chris, how old am I? 35. 29, 28 years ago. You know, I wish I still had the... You know, I'm sort of envious of the grief that my mom has in a way. You know, she remembers my sister in a much purer way, um, than I did. And also, like, now that I'm a dad myself, I ca- the respect I have for my parents, I think, like, parents who lose kids, I think the divorce rate is over 50% because, like, it's such... It's, it's the worst thing in the world is to, you know, to outlive your kids. Um, my parents, I, you know, it only ever made them stronger. Uh, and, you know, I've got such admiration for them for being, you know... Uh, sort of leading by example and not letting it tear them apart.

    24. DJ

      I love that, man. That's sweet. Before we go into, like, Stephen Bartlett tear-jerking territory, man.

    25. DS

      [laughs] Aye.

  11. 26:55 – 32:25

    Breaking out: Roadshow, refusing London, Eddie Izzard’s push, and Conan turning point

    1. DJ

      Uh, tell me about your big break, man. What was that?

    2. DS

      Um, I mean, I've had a fucking bunch, you know. Um, depends who you ask. Um, I think-

    3. DJ

      When did you s- like, escape the circuit?

    4. DS

      Oh. Um, oh, I mean, which fucking circuit? You know. Um, I guess my first big break was probably McIntyre's Roadshow when I was, like, 19. Um, and that was season two, and that was after, you know... That was the first time since back in the good old days, back when Live at the Apollo used to be good, and it could be a kingmaker. Uh, McIntyre's Roadshow became that. Season one was Sarah Millican, Kevin Bridges, John Bishop, Rhod Gilbert, and fucking Flanagan, right? Overnight, all five of those... I mean, there were other people on those shows who were great, but those people then had a fucking career, like, the next day. Um, so I got, like, a little bit of that in season two. Not, not... No, obviously nowhere near, uh, the likes of that, but, like, enough to kind of tour a little bit, which I did straightaway. And then it sort of died down a bit. Um, you know, I refused to move to London. Um-

    5. DJ

      Why was that?

    6. DS

      You know, fucking hate it there. It's a shithole.

    7. DJ

      [laughs]

    8. DS

      It's a shithole, and everyone there's a cunt. [laughs] Like, it's... We were like... You know, I don't like the scene there.

    9. DJ

      Wasn't worth the sacrifice, no?

    10. DS

      No, and it's so fucking cliquey. Like, you know, I li- again, look, I like Scotland, and I like the Scottish comedy scene because, you know, I've been on the circuit with these cunts for years. Nobody, you know, fucking any time I walk into a green, green room, if I'm being a cunt, Jay Larry will tell me I'm being a cunt. [laughs] Like, you know. Whereas London seems to be a bunch of people who were bullied in high school, uh, become pa- Like, all of the things that made them weird and standout-ish in high school is now celebrated in comedy, and they remember being ostracized and being bullied in high schools. But now they're the most popular people in this new art form. And instead of learning from the things that made them sad in high school, they then just become that, and they become these cliquey fucking bullies. And, "Oh, you don't get to hang out with us 'cause you don't do this, and you're not, you know, you're not a real comic if you don't do this," and all this sort of self-policing bullshit. And they're all... You know, I just didn't want to be a part of that. Um, so, you know. And also, like, fucking people were like, "Well, why don't you move to London?" I'm like, "Do you think the fucking scope of my career is this island?" You know, I don't wanna be... I want to be global. And I-

    11. DJ

      Did you have that at that young age, that idea?

    12. DS

      Uh, no, no. To be real, no. I mean, the dream was only ever to, like, tour around in the UK. I remember, like, Eddie Izzard had to talk me into touring Europe, uh, because, like, I was like, "There's... Why would I fucking go to Europe? Nobody speaks English." Ignorant. "Nobody speak English. They're never gonna understand the fucking comedy over there. I'm not doing it." My agent was like, "Do Europe." I'm like, "I'm not doing Europe. Go fuck yourself." I get a call from an anonymous number one day. It's Eddie Izzard. And they're like, [laughs] "Hey, man, just heard that you might be touring Europe. I think it's a really good thing to do." And after that, I was like, "Well, I can't not fucking listen to Eddie Fucking Izzard." And then I did, and you know, I was touring Europe at the time. What helped... And then the other thing that was the, the sort of break there was Conan O'Brien. That was, like, a big... That was a nice, lovely fuck you to the, you know, the London scene.

    13. DJ

      And that was very organic. It wasn't like a manufactured, your agent got in contact with Conan. It was like someone came to your show-

    14. DS

      Yeah, JP

    15. DJ

      ... loved you.

    16. DS

      Yeah, JP Buck.

    17. DJ

      Yeah.

    18. DS

      JP Buck, the booker at Conan, came over every year 'cause he loved the Fringe to, like, scout it out. Uh, he was friends with my American agent. He came to the show- Uh, had me on it, and, uh, and then Conan was just so nice to me. Like, Conan... When I walked off stage after my first Conan spot, Conan tried to book me for, like, the next day. And, like, JP had [laughs] to be like, "Man," like, "let him process this." Like, "Let him get..." Conan's like, "Okay." And then, like, the next day I woke up, and my agent was there, and she's like, "Warner Brothers have offered you a development deal for X amount of money, uh, to develop a sitcom," and that came directly from Conan just being like, "You have to sign this kid up." Now, ultimately nothing came from it, but yeah, that was a big... And that allowed me to be in America a bit more, and that allowed me to do clubs over there a bit more, and that was a very big, important thing to me because, you know, I love the UK comedy scene, and I think it's so much fucking... It's, you know, as much as I like pissing on the London scene, 'cause it makes me feel big and strong.

    19. DJ

      [laughs]

    20. DS

      You know, I, I, I think we punch well above our weight, uh, as a nation in terms of the comedy that we produce, and I think the sneering, looking down your nose from the fucking right-wing grifters of the American scene, um, is very boring because, you know, a lot of them just don't have nuance to their comedy. Um, you know, I wanted to go to America to, to, to see if I could... 'Cause that's where comedy was invented. That's where modern stand-up was fucking invented, and if you can do it there, surely you can do it fucking anywhere. So Conan-

    21. DJ

      That's like a kind of Stella lyric, like the American dream. [laughs]

    22. DS

      Yeah, yeah. Well, just for the record, the worst song ever written. American Boy is, I-E-

    23. DJ

      American Boy, that's the one

    24. DS

      ... American Boy I, I think is the worst song ever, ever written.

    25. DJ

      [laughs]

    26. DS

      It, it f- My wife hates when it comes on the radio because it fills me with such rage.

    27. DJ

      [laughs]

  12. 32:25 – 47:33

    Netflix eruption: algorithmic fame, relationship impact of Jigsaw, and parasocial weight

    1. DS

      It's just such a whiny shit song. Um, and then eventually, after all the fucking Conans, I mean, the big... I mean the big, big break, break, the life-changing break, was obviously the fucking, the Netflix stuff. I mean, that was where... You know, we'd laid the groundwork in the UK for touring, so I... You know, in Scotland I was doing... I guess during the Fringe I was probably doing 10,000 tickets. On tour in Scotland I was probably doing 7,000 tickets maybe on a tour. And we were maybe doing, I don't know, anywhere between 5,000 and 10,000 in England, and then in Europe, 200 seaters at best. America, not doing theaters, only doing clubs. Great clubs. Loved doing the clubs, but the audience weren't there for me. They were there for the club. And then Netflix was, I mean, overnight.

    2. DJ

      Gasoline man.

    3. DS

      Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and it just, and it just, and it didn't fucking stop, you know. Because the way the algorithm worked was there was hype about it, and then it just, for like two years, just... I mean, still now I get people in my fucking DMs being like, "Hey, man, I just saw your special Jigsaw, and I think your stance on relationships is really good." And I'm like, "Cool, man. That was 11 years ago. I am married. I have a beard. I have gray hair." [laughs] "I have two kids."

    4. DJ

      [laughs]

    5. DS

      "I still stand by everything I said, but fucking you need... You got a lot of seasons of me to catch up on."

    6. DJ

      [laughs]

    7. DS

      Like, please don't come and see me live straight away, 'cause, like, if the last thing you saw me do was Jigsaw, when I walk out on stage looking like this, you're gonna go, "Ah! Fucking hell."

    8. DJ

      [laughs] Macaulay Culkin's playing Daniel Sloss. [laughs]

    9. DS

      Yeah, yeah. Or what's that fucking... Who's that? Uh, what's that old story about the guy who keeps a fucking picture of himself in his attic?

    10. DJ

      I don't know. [laughs]

    11. DS

      Oh, you... Somebody must know that. The old fucking vampire guy keeps his picture in an attic, and if he sees the picture of himself-

    12. DJ

      I think he wants to be a millionaire

    13. DS

      ... Dorian Gray. It's gotta be Dorian Gray. Is that, is that correct? Yeah. Uncultured swine.

    14. DJ

      Phone a friend on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire with Dan Sloss. [laughs]

    15. DS

      Dorian, Dorian Gray. Dorian Gray. That's it. Yeah.

    16. DJ

      How old were you when you did, uh, Conan?

    17. DS

      Uh, fuck. I think the first one, I think I was 22, 23. So it was, like, three or four years after, uh, McIntyre's Roadshow, and fuck, I needed it then.

    18. DJ

      Mm.

    19. DS

      Like, I really... You know, the... One of the problems, one of the difficulties about having success early on and, like, sort of having milestones that go up, if you've got... I was so, I was so lucky and privileged in the early part of my career because I was young, because I was attractive to certain groups of mentally ill women.

    20. DJ

      [laughs]

    21. DS

      Um, and because I had an accent. You know, I was a sort of box ticker, and I was certainly benefiting from, like, I think being gigs, being given gigs, uh, that other comedians probably deserved more than me. Um, but I did very well at those gigs. You know, you take the opportunities and you smash them. When your rise is constantly on the way up, plateauing, which isn't a bad thing. Like, plateauing is maintaining. Plateauing is keeping the audience over. Even though it's a really good thing, if you're so used to a rise, plateauing can feel like you're in free fall, and it can really fuck with your head mentally, and I've had so many times in my career, and I still struggle with it now, which is like I'll go through phases where, like, my career's on the up and up and up, and then naturally it'll just stop for a bit. And I, you know, before the Conans, before I did that for the first time, like, I really felt like my fucking career was stagnant, and I didn't know what to do, and then that was like a big boost and kick up the ass, and then I did Conan for a couple years. And I, I was able to tour Europe, and then, and then, and then it stagnated, which again is not good. You achieve, you keep. You achieve, you keep. But I remember the day before I got told, uh, that I got my Netflix specials, I was drunkenly screaming down the phone in Bulgaria, in Sofia, uh, at my agent saying, "Fuck Netflix. Fuck all these..." Like, I'm like, "I'm not... I'm, I'm waiting. I've got two, I've got two fucking specials ready to fucking release." Um, and this was before anyone was putting it on YouTube. This was before... And I, you know... Bill Burnham had released what? ... on YouTube as well as Netflix. And I was like, "I'll just fucking do that. I'll just fucking release it on Netflix. I'm not fucking waiting." You know, I'm young. I need this stuff out. I fuck in my head, in my head, in my head. [laughs] And then, like, the next day she was like, "So I didn't tell them any of that."

    22. DJ

      [laughs]

    23. DS

      Uh, which turns out was wise because they've offered you two Netflix specials. [laughs] And I was like, "Oh my God. Oh, God, I didn't mean anything I said. I was just having a fucking tantrum of somebody who's, you know, who's, who's had a taste of fucking everything, and, and occasionally had, had that taken away for a bit."

    24. DJ

      I thought your claim to fame would've been predicting/lining up the Conor McGregor-Mayweather fight-

    25. DS

      Yes

    26. DJ

      ... on Conor McGregor.

    27. DS

      Which I did do. Which I did do. I'm, I'm responsible for that fight. Uh-

    28. DJ

      And a late ... You could've been a late substitution for that as well. You could've stepped in, man.

    29. DS

      Oh, man. I ... Don't get me wrong, I reckon it's, I reckon it's really, really satisfying to punch both Conor McGregor and Floyd Mayweather. It must be really, really satisfying to punch alleged settled out of court rapists, um, in the face. I would ... I ... They'd kill me. They'd both kill me. They ... I'm not ... I'm, I'm not disillusioned.

    30. DJ

      [laughs]

  13. 47:33 – 57:00

    Fame’s dark side: addiction, touring loneliness, therapy, and rebuilding priorities

    1. DJ

      That's, that's sweet. Like, given that you had so much acclaim for those specials, your life turned, uh, not upside down. Life turned out, um, completely differently after that-

    2. DS

      Aye

    3. DJ

      ... because of the meteoric success. Like, and, uh, uh, as a kind of child prodigy on TV as well, did anyone ever give you, like, a fucking manual of, like, "Here's what to do when you become famous. Here's how to manage it. Here's how to spend your money and look after yourself, and make sure you don't do much drink and drugs." Like, how do you... Uh, was there any arrested development in that space?

    4. DS

      Yeah, still got it. Yeah, still got it. Uh, you know, that's why I go to therapy. Um, you know, I don't think, uh, my brain is a particularly normal or great place to be a lot of the time. You know, all of my self-worth, uh, for over half my life has come from the love and approval of strangers. You know, I was... COVID fucked me up a lot, um, because I was touring too much before, uh, because I was so terrified of losing the heat. You know, strike while the iron's hot. I was... You know, the momentum that you... I fucking had. You know, all through the X tour I was begging. All I wanted was a fucking year off. And then, uh, and then COVID happened, and, you know, I got exactly what I wanted, and it fucked me up worse because- You know, now I, I, I had no idea how to like myself, uh, or love myself or see any value in myself as a person because, you know, you know, just years and years that you, you get that from the strangers in front of you. You get that from after the show when people are thanking you for all this fucking, you know, really ego, um, building stuff. Uh, nobody prepared me for it. I, I was very fortunate in the fact, like, a lot of ... I'd had, like, the incremental success before that, so, like, I, like, y- you know, fucking, Mack and Dave's road show was, like, a slight inoculation. And then Conan was, like, another little inoculation. Like, here, it's gonna blow up a little bit. Little ... And then Netflix was, was overnight and, uh, global. Um, it absolutely stunted my growth mentally. Uh, I handled it really poorly. Like, on the X tour, I was, I was doing 3/4 of a bottle of whiskey a night on stage. Uh, I was ... I mean, at one point I said to my agent, and this was really fucked, and I, you know, I've apologized to her many times since, but I was, uh, I was in a dark place during those times. I was like, "I don't care what it does. Wherever I land in the world, it's your job to get weed there when I la- when I land."

    5. DJ

      Yo.

    6. DS

      I was like, "Whoever the local promoters are," I'm like, "I'm not doing a fucking second of this tour sober." And I can't do it. Like, I'm away from home. Uh, I'm away from my girlfriend. I'm away from my support group. Thank, thank fucking God I had Kai there with me, you know, who's, you know, known me my entire life, and he was able to, like, do his best to keep me on, uh, the track. But God, yeah, I lost myself. I fucking hated myself. Took years off my life. Uh, and then, you know, when the X tour ended, I went straight to fucking therapy. I was like, "Ah, like, this is not a good place to be in." I've become, I've become toxic. Um, you know, I was really awful to my agent, uh, 'cause I blamed her. Uh, I was really awful to a lot of people around me 'cause, you know, I just wanted to, I wanted to isolate. I just ... You know, being on the road is really fucking lonely. It's, it's one of the most lonely things in the world. And, and I hated myself for what I perceived to be ingratitude. You know, I felt like such a stereotype. Like, you've gotten everything you ever fucking dreamed of. You're a global success, more than you ever thought that you would ever be, you know, when you were 17 years old, and you're not fucking happy. That's pathetic.

    7. DJ

      Mm.

    8. DS

      You know? Go back to the stand, talk to all the people you started with. Every single one of those cunts would murder for the career that you have, and there I am fucking, you know, crying in a hotel in Hong Kong, drunk in a bath in Moscow, you know, being unprofessional, being unfulfilled, and not really savoring what I had. Um, and it was a, yeah, it was a fucking dark, horrible, yeah, spiral.

    9. DJ

      Given that you're touring again now across the globe, how have you ... Like, what have you learned in that process? Like, how have you rewired your relationship with self-validation and external validation?

    10. DS

      Um, oh, fucking, you know, I've got two kids-

    11. DJ

      [laughs]

    12. DS

      ... and a wife who loves me. Um, you know, and that's, I mean, and that's ... It- and it's hard. You know, it's something I still, you know, struggle with. I'm still in therapy. You know, I s- you know, I s- uh, still s- uh, struggle with my sense of self and my ego and, you know, I, I have really bad imposter syndrome depending on where I am in the world. Uh, I still have such huge anxieties and fear about my career, my success, and my future, and how I'm perceived. Um, but what's really helpful is, you know, stand-up comedy's no longer my priority. I love it. I love it. It will, you know, it will always be my first love, but, you know, now I'm home most of the time. After my daughter was born, I took a year off. I just stayed at home the entire time until my wife was like, "You need to fucking go back on tour. I love you, but fuck off." Um, uh, and now I'm at the stage where, you know, I said to my agent, "Never ev- never again am I away for more than half of a month." I'm like, "Two weekends a month, that's how much I get." I want being home to be my normality, and I want touring to be the exciting thing. 'Cause when I w- when I was on the road for fucking, you know, 18 months with X, and I was, you know, at the peak of my fame and success, I was Daniel Sloss every day. I was Netflix's Daniel Sloss every day. I was HBO's Daniel Sloss every... All these titles that I'd fucking given myself, this massive fucking unbearable ego that I had in me, and being that person, who was not a real person, it was a stage persona, it was an act, being that person was exhausting and, and a sham. Nobody's that confident. Nobody believes in themselves-

    13. DJ

      Mm

    14. DS

      ... as much as that. And now I'm like, I, you know, I, it's nice to step into the shoes of that person, uh, a- and sort of get to experience that again, but now I w- you know, I j- I, I want my normality to be Daniel and dad. Uh-

    15. DJ

      I had a friend who's a very successful celebrity who suffered the exact same thing. S- the same maladies of fame. Came from a working class background. Didn't know what to do with it. But when he became a father, he was like, "That's who I am now."

    16. DS

      Yeah.

    17. DJ

      Like, "That's my job title, dad."

    18. DS

      Yeah.

    19. DJ

      "And that's it. That's, that, that's what I do." He took 10 years off-

    20. DS

      Yeah

    21. DJ

      ... just to be a dad.

    22. DS

      Yeah.

    23. DJ

      And it was so easy to, like, go and-

    24. DS

      Rick Moranis is your best friend. [laughs]

    25. DJ

      [laughs]

    26. DS

      It's unbelievable.

    27. DJ

      Oh. [laughs] Yeah, man. Like- Like, I, I, I'm growing this podcast at the moment, and over the last six months, it's reached numbers that I'm very proud of, and I get recognized in small s- like, uh, uh, places. And like, if you were to warn me as a younger person who's trying to, like, climb the same rungs as you in a very different domain, like, are there any, like, 3D lessons that you learned, like, in the terrain that you would, like, pass on to, like, a younger guy-

    28. DS

      Yeah

    29. DJ

      ... or a younger person?

    30. DS

      Yeah, but you're not gonna, you know, you're not gonna fucking listen to them. You're gonna learn-

  14. 57:00 – 1:02:43

    Returning to stage after fatherhood: sucking again, bombing, and ego discipline

    1. DJ

      What was it like coming back after, uh, your, your stint off becoming a father? Like, is it like riding a bike, comedy? Like, d- like, are you an instant success in the comedy clubs again, or like writing-

    2. DS

      No

    3. DJ

      ... writing and performing, do you have to, like, learn again?

    4. DS

      Yeah, yeah, I had to. And also, I sucked. Like, normally, when... You know, normally when I go to The Stand to do new material, I'm coming off the back of another tour. So even though the material's new, I'm great. Like, I'm in form. Like, I've been touring for 14 months, so I'm in a stand-up fucking brain. So even though this material's shit, I can give it the fucking big legs that it needs to get it across the line. Taking a, you know, a year off and coming back with shit material and zero fucking stage presence or belief in yourself sucked, and I fucking hated, I hated it for the first two months, uh, last year, January, February. Like-

    5. DJ

      Were you doing work in progress shows, or were you dropping into places like The Stand doing-

    6. DS

      I was dropping into places at The Stand. I dropped-

    7. DJ

      So, like, it wasn't your audience. It was just-

    8. DS

      No

    9. DJ

      ... fresh faces.

    10. DS

      Which was the problem, which was... You know, I, as a piece of shit comedy purist who's like, "You know, if you're a real comedian, you should be able to get on stage anywhere in the world at any time and just make those people love..." You know, I was very much that. I was like, "I should be able to go on stage and just fucking, doesn't matter where it is, and smash. Uh, I should be able to play to neutrals and do great to neutrals." And I would go to The Stand, and I would have not great material. [laughs] And I would have not great s- I would do fine, but you know, I have very high expectations and standards for myself. And I would come back at the end, and m- my [laughs] fucking poor wife, be like, "How is it?" And she... Fucking God, she listens. God, she listens to any whiny-

    11. DJ

      [laughs]

    12. DS

      ... fucking complaint out my gut. [laughs] She'll be like, "You know, it's okay." She would listen to me piss and moan about, you know... I'm like, "I'm playing to fucking 13 people, and I can't play to 13 people. I should know how to play to 13 people." And she was like, "Why?" She's like, "So long, for so m- long of your career, so much of your career, you were trying to get your own audience. And now you have your own audience, and you're just turning your back on them for some fucking, like, really gross comedy purist stance that only you have in your head." And then I was like, "Well, that's a good point." And so then I just, I phoned Monkey Barrel, and I was like, "Can I do an hour?" And they were like, "Yeah, man." And then it, you know, it sold out in seven minutes to my own fans. And I came back after that gig, and I walked in the house, and I was like to my wife, I'm like, "Guess who's fucking back, cunt?"

    13. DJ

      [laughs]

    14. DS

      And she was like, "Oh, great. Good. Now we get to go through this again. This is..." You know, there's, there's no happy, um... I mean, now I don't regret doing it. Like I, you know, I want to, you know... This club means the world to me. You know, I want to be able to, you know, to jump up anywhere and, and smash it and do fucking well. But I also just need to learn to, like, be, be less hard on myself, I guess.

    15. DJ

      What is it with the ego when you come on to, like, a Red Rhino Tuesday night, and you're, you've not been out-

    16. DS

      And absolutely nobody gives a shit. [laughs]

    17. DJ

      Yeah, no one gives a shit, or you, you bomb. [laughs] Like...

    18. DS

      Well, I, I, I like the... You know, at the time I hate it, but-

    19. DJ

      Do you still bomb?

    20. DS

      Yeah. Yeah, of course I fucking do. Yeah. Everyone fucking bombs. Yeah. I mean, not as, not often, but yeah. I mean, man-

    21. DJ

      You've not had a Midas touch.

    22. DS

      Man, I ate shit at JFL fucking two years ago. Like, on the gala. God, I sucked at it. Thankfully, like, I bombed at the gala. I did seven minutes to almost fucking silence, and then I got off stage, and they were like, "Oh, you have to stay for the photo at the end." But I'm like-

    23. DJ

      [laughs]

    24. DS

      ... "Suck my actual dick." Like, "I'm not going back out there." Thankfully, I had my own solo show, like, literally 10 minutes after my spot. So, like, I got to go to my own solo show, and I got to wash the fucking stink of that set off of me. But God, yeah, I still fucking bomb. If I didn't still bomb, I wouldn't be fucking trying.

    25. DJ

      Yeah.

    26. DS

      You know, I would be, you know, reining it in. And it sucks, you know? Um, and you know, there are some times where my fucking horrible, pathetic ego will be like, "Oh, God, you know, Glasgow Stand. The second they say my name, surely, surely the audience is gonna go-"

    27. DJ

      Fireworks.

    28. DS

      "... fucking ballistic." And then you walk out on stage, there's 300 people there, and, like, two people go, "Oh, yeah" Yeah, I think I ... Yeah, you fucking ... The Russell Brand guy?

    29. DJ

      [laughs]

    30. DS

      I'm like, "All right. Okay, okay. Sure." But, but that's, you know, that's, that's a better, that's a better test of that material. You know, that's ... I don't know. I always say this thing about Chris Rock. I don't know if it's true. It's just a story I heard about Chris Rock. And if it is true, I f- I'm o- I'm obsessed with it. Chris Rock, because he's Chris Rock, whenever he's doing new material, will go to a club, and he will purposefully eat shit for 10 minutes, because he knows that for, like, the first three minutes, anything he says, the audience is gonna laugh at, 'cause he's Chris Rock. So he, like, makes sure that's all shit, and then, like, the next five minutes after that, when people are like, "Oh my God, none of this is funny," he'll keep eating shit, doing really, really bad so the audience is like, "Oh my God, Chris Rock fucking sucks." Like, this is really bad stuff. And then at 10 minutes when they're solo, that's when he'll do his actual material. If that is true, that is a level of control over your ego that I am so deeply envious of. Like, that's, that, that, that must be the most freeing thing-

  15. 1:02:43 – 1:13:47

    Russell Brand documentary: why he spoke, why others didn’t, and the personal cost

    1. DJ

      Oh, man. Can we talk about the Brand stuff?

    2. DS

      Yeah, absolutely.

    3. DJ

      Like, can you tell me or walk me through the motions of being contacted or putting yourself forward for-

    4. DS

      I didn't put myself forward.

    5. DJ

      Yeah, you got contacted for it.

    6. DS

      Yeah.

    7. DJ

      Were you the only comedian that they reached out to?

    8. DS

      No.

    9. DJ

      But you're the, the only-

    10. DS

      I gave them a list of people to talk to.

    11. DJ

      And did they speak to any of them?

    12. DS

      Yep.

    13. DJ

      Did they appear-

    14. DS

      Nope

    15. DJ

      ... on ... So just you?

    16. DS

      Just me.

    17. DJ

      Uh, why were you the voice for so many, then? Why, what-

    18. DS

      Oh, I ... You know, I backed myself into a fucking corner, really. [laughs]

    19. DJ

      [laughs]

    20. DS

      You know? I, you know, I did a, I did a special, X, uh, which was about, you know, rape and sexual assault. And, you know, I tried my best to make sure that it wasn't a preachy special. I didn't want it to be attacking men. I didn't want it, I didn't want it to be another fucking thing of like, oh, you know, this is all men's problem, blah, blah, blah. Yelling at them, making them, you know, turn their back on the cause. I wanted to, like, really bring men on side, and make them understand that, like, I was blindsided by the actions of my friend who sexually assaulted one of my other friends. Um, and I, you know, to this day, I still feel culpable and a bit responsible for that. There were signs that I ignored, and I wanted other men to sort of understand that, you know, it's not a reflection of them as people, but just 'cause you're not hearing these stories doesn't mean it's not happening. A lot of the time, it just means that the women in your life probably don't feel comfortable talking to you about it, 'cause one of the things I realized shortly after what happened to us is, like, how many of my friends, female friends, had experienced stuff like this. And I wanted to make sure ... Yelling at men doesn't work, but if you can get them on side and listen, then they're deeply compassionate, empathetic. People most of the time, and they will fight the good fight. I do believe that most men are fucking good, so that's what I wanted the special to be.

    21. DJ

      And comedy's such a good vehicle for that.

    22. DS

      Mm-hmm.

    23. DJ

      For, like, using a role model to communicate that message. Like, when I've been going to shows with my sister, and I've seen, like, a, a feminist who's also a comedian talk about, uh, women's issues, like, because I hear it through the mechanism of comedy-

    24. DS

      Yeah

    25. DJ

      ... like, I, I get-

    26. DS

      It softens the blow

    27. DJ

      ... it softens the blow.

    28. DS

      Yeah.

    29. DJ

      And I, I learn greatly from it.

    30. DS

      Yeah.

  16. 1:13:47 – 1:33:26

    Fatherhood now: what he wants for his kids, how comedy changed, and the ‘cool stuff’ of success

    1. DJ

      I want to move on to fatherhood.

    2. DS

      Yes.

    3. DJ

      Uh, 'cause that's been such a integral point, uh, integral thing in your life. I consume a guy called Alain de Botton, uh, who has this thing called, uh, The School of Life. Um, and like, it's like a kind of, uh, YouTube educational channel, and he has this, um, this frame that's something like, "A sign of good parenting is that your kids don't want to be famous."

    4. DS

      Mm.

    5. DJ

      Uh, and given like the highs and lows and the exceptional circumstances you found yourself in with, uh, comedy, like, what are your hopes for fatherhood and your kids?

    6. DS

      Um, well, f- I mean, first and foremost, obviously, that they are, um, happy and confident in themselves and that they love themselves and, you know, not love themselves in the way that I used to when I was fucking 27 and I thought I was the bee's knees. You know, I didn't love myself. I loved what I had achieved and who I thought I was and how I was perceived, you know?

    7. DJ

      What you did, not who you were.

    8. DS

      Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I want my kids to love... I want them to love themselves the way I love them. You know, I want, you know, I want them to, you know, understand that, you know, they c- you know, they can make mistakes. They can be fucking wrong. Um, and that's fine. You're a human being. You're gonna grow. You're gonna, uh, change, and you need to have, you know, the same compassion that you have for others for yourself. Um, my son does say that he wants to be a comedian, but he's, he's three, and I will try and knock that out of him-

    9. DJ

      [laughs]

    10. DS

      ... because I don't want him to... Uh, I occasionally bring him on stage just as this... Like, when the audience are walking in. When he first learned to walk in Australia, uh, like, literally, like, the day after he took his first steps, we were in Gold Coast, and we were backstage at, in the green room, and he heard, like, the audience, and he just started walking out. And me and my wife, we were just like, "Let's just see what he fucking does. Let's just see." Wonder what, you know, an 18-month-old brain processes this as. And he walked out, and he sort of peeks his head out the fucking curtain, and then he walked out and he waved. And we've got videos of this, and it's, you know, everyone fucking clapping and, um, you know, he... I think he, like, waved or fucking bowed and loved it. And then ever since then, whenever I'm doing a big gig, he's like, "Can I pop out before the show?" I'm like, "Yeah, man. Just, you know, let them understand that I'm a changed man." But I do hope that's like, um, giving him a taste of it now-

    11. DJ

      Mm

    12. DS

      ... makes him realize how... D- d- doesn't see it as a thing to strive for. Like, if he gets the buzz now and then gets bored of it, and then sort of, you know, hopefully, 'cause I'm his dad, you know, when he's a teenager, I will just be the most uncool person in the world. So hopefully that'll fucking put him off of it. Um, you know, I... Even though, you know, Cara brings it up often. She's like, "Does it not flatter you that he wants to do what you do?" Uh, yeah, in a way, but, like, also, I, I guess the fear is that if he wants to do stand-up or if my daughter wants to do stand-up, I guess the fear is I guess I'll never really trust about whether they want to do that because they want to or whether they want to do it because that's the way they think they can get my attention. I want them to know that they'll always have my attention. Like, stand-up is not my priority. You two are my priority. Um, I never want them to, to, either of them to experience a moment where they think that I think my job is more important than them, which is hard because the job is travel. You know, and my son, you know, misses me when I'm gone, and I miss him, and he doesn't have concept of money or whatever. And he's like, "Why do you have to go to work?"

    13. DJ

      [laughs]

    14. DS

      And I'm like, "Because you live in a fucking great house, man. You live in a really good house, and we have lovely holidays. That's why I have to go to, have to go to work." Um, but, you know, I need him to understand that I'm doing it for, for m- f- because it's my job and not because, not because stand-up gives me anything that he doesn't give me.

    15. DJ

      That's sweet. Has your comedy changed because of becoming a father? Like-

    16. DS

      Yes, I'm much worse.

    17. DJ

      [laughs]

    18. DS

      Much, much worse.

    19. DJ

      Do you do, like, the typical, like, parental sets?

    20. DS

      Yeah.

    21. DJ

      Yeah.

    22. DS

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    23. DJ

      I can imagine as a purist you probably used to hate that.

    24. DS

      Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man, if fucking... If, you know, if 26-year-old me could come forward in time and see the stand-up I'm doing now-

    25. DJ

      [laughs]

    26. DS

      ... he'd fucking hate me. But I could kick his cunt in, so-

    27. DJ

      [laughs]

    28. DS

      [laughs] ... so I ultimately I don't respect what he thinks. Um, you know. Uh, yeah, I mean, look, that's, you know, one of my favorite quote from, uh, The Way of Kings is from, you know, Dal- Dalinar Kholin, which is, you know, "Don't mistake growth for hypocrisy." You know, we do change. We become, um, different. You know, the reason I was such a comedy purist was a self-defense mechanism. It was a way that I could, you know, explain the success of other comedians over myself. You know, "Oh, they might have this, but they're not a purist the way I am. They're not doing it this way." All this fucking nonsense to cover up my deep, deep insecurity. Um- And then, you know, now, yeah, I mean, uh, my audience is there for me, you know. They want my view on the world. They want my opinions on what's happening, and they want me to talk about my life experiences, and that, you know, at this moment in time is, you know, pure fatherhood. Um, so I understand it's probably disappointing, uh, to, to some people who, you know, I guess after fucking Dark Jigsaw and X, they were like, "Oh my God, this, you know, this guy could be the next fucking-

    29. DJ

      Socrates. [laughs]

    30. DS

      Yeah, the next truth speaker, the next thing, and then I'm doing other stuff. And they're like, "Oh, okay, you know, he's just the fucking next Mickey Flanagan."

Episode duration: 1:33:26

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