Rufus Rice: Posh, Privileged & Accidentally Viral

Rufus Rice 0:00 [claps]

Rufus Rice 0:03 I think sync claps are so stupid. Should we start off like that?

David McIntosh Jr 0:06 Yeah.

Rufus Rice 0:06 Why? Why do you need to do that? You can sync it up to any bit of the audio. It's easy to, it's easy to make it line up.

David McIntosh Jr 0:13 Yeah.

Rufus Rice 0:13 But if-

David McIntosh Jr 0:13 Don't undermine my editor, you know?

Rufus Rice 0:14 If I just went, "Woo," that, then you could just do that. But everyone insists on doing a sync clap for no reason. It always infuriates me. We even do it on our show, and I know it, I know you don't have to do it, and we do it every single time.

David McIntosh Jr 0:25 Why don't we rebrand it now? Instead of doing a sync-

Rufus Rice 0:28 But, but, but you don't... That's what I'm saying, is we don't need to rebrand it, 'cause it's not necessary at all, because any editor could easily line an audio and video up just from chat.

David McIntosh Jr 0:36 Rufus Rice, everyone.

Rufus Rice 0:38 Hi, guys. I'm not that... I, I'm, I'm at peace with the world, I promise you. I'm like-

David McIntosh Jr 0:42 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 0:42 ... I'm not taking my anger out on the sync clap. Thanks for having me. All right.

David McIntosh Jr 0:45 Thanks for coming on, man. This show usually f- uh, interviews people that have faced real adversity.

Rufus Rice 0:51 Yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 0:51 Real adversity.

Rufus Rice 0:52 I have to invent problems-

David McIntosh Jr 0:54 Yeah

Rufus Rice 0:54 ... to, um, overcome, like-

David McIntosh Jr 0:56 Can we invent one right now?

Rufus Rice 0:58 Sure. Yeah. Uh, well, today I almost shit myself on the train. Is that a problem? Because I didn't, so it's not really a problem, is it? [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 1:07 [laughs] It's maybe a problem that you didn't-

Rufus Rice 1:11 [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 1:11 ... but you know you could've.

Rufus Rice 1:12 That story boils down to I needed a poo.

David McIntosh Jr 1:15 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 1:15 Which I think happens to a lot of people all the time. So... No, I'm very, I'm very lucky. I had a very nice upbringing. Nobody knows anyt- people will watch this and be like, "This is just a random guy who went to a nice school." So I should explain who I am. But I'm like a c- st- I'm a comedian, podcaster, TikToker. You've seen the, you've seen the type. If you're over 35, you'll be like, "I don't u- understand what that is." And if you're under 35, you'll be like, "I know exactly the kind of guy you are. I see people like you all the time. They're a dime a dozen." Um,

Rufus Rice 1:45 but yeah, I'm a vaguely successful comedian, TikTok legend of the game. Um, and, uh, yeah, I had a... I attribute a lot of my success to my relatively easy upbringing, I would say. Yeah. Would you feel uncomfortable... If I took you on a posh night out, would you be, feel uncomfortable?

David McIntosh Jr 2:04 What does a posh night out look like?

Rufus Rice 2:05 Right. So we'll str- we're straight-

David McIntosh Jr 2:07 Are you using cutlery?

Rufus Rice 2:08 [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 2:10 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 2:10 We're straight down the Sloaney Pony for seven, seven jars of the local nasty. And because I'm vaguely posh and went to a nice school-

David McIntosh Jr 2:19 Sloaney Pony?

Rufus Rice 2:19 Yeah, it's a pub. Um, it's not, we're not like, you know, bumming a horse.

David McIntosh Jr 2:24 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 2:24 I know, I know there are stereotypes about this sort of thing. We're not sort of committing crimes on animals yet. Although, you know, my dad did once hit a mouse with a didgeridoo, but that was by the time-

David McIntosh Jr 2:35 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 2:37 [laughs] I don't, I don't think that's really relevant to this.

David McIntosh Jr 2:38 Is that a euphemism?

Rufus Rice 2:39 Uh, no, he did... It's, it's not like-

David McIntosh Jr 2:41 Didgeridoos? Your dad Rolf Harris?

Rufus Rice 2:43 Yeah. [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 2:44 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 2:45 I had a didgeridoo, and he found a, he found a rat in our house, and he thought, "Well, what's the best way to get rid of this?" So he just smacked it with the didgeridoo.

David McIntosh Jr 2:53 That's a problem that you've just invented.

Rufus Rice 2:55 In, in, in incredible... What, having one mouse in your house over a period of 12 years is a problem.

David McIntosh Jr 3:00 Yeah, and using your favorite musical instrument to beat it.

Rufus Rice 3:03 It's not my favorite. It's not even in my top five. I don't think a didgeridoo... Ridiculous instrument, by the way. You try getting sound out of a bit of wood. It's impossible. It's a, it's a stupid instrument. Sorry, Abor- any Aboriginals watching. I don't understand it. It's up there with the rain stick and the triangle for me. Um, but anyway, posh night out. We're going down the Sloaney Pony. We're having, we're having seven double vodka lime sodas probably, and there'll be people that I know, 'cause all the people who went to posh schools and universities, like, know each other. Like, I vaguely know them. So maybe I'll have a few bits of, uh, inside joke banter that you won't really get, but that's okay. And then, like, we'll... You know, you make fun of the poor for a bit. You have to. Um, there are genuinely people at my school... When we did poverty, when we studied geography at school and we did poverty, there are people who, who don't understand like, "Oh, if you're poor, why don't you just, like, get a sick job?" [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 3:55 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 3:56 There are pe- there were people like that who were like-

David McIntosh Jr 3:58 Why don't you have aspirations?

Rufus Rice 3:59 Yeah, it's just like, "Oh, mate," like, "If I was poor, like I'd just... I, I feel like I'd just move to like a richer... I'd just move to like a rich area and like, you know, get a new job."

David McIntosh Jr 4:09 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 4:10 People say stuff like that. People, like genuinely, they used to say, "I feel like if my country was sort of in the middle of a, of a civil war, like, I'd probably just, like, move. Like, I'd probably just go to like, you know, Southeast Asia or something, take a couple of gap years." [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 4:24 [laughs] Dude, dude, I grew up so poor, the pigeons used to throw me food. [laughs]

Rufus Rice 4:29 Mm. Right.

David McIntosh Jr 4:31 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rufus Rice 4:31 The tin rattlers on the train, were they, were they d- were they giving you money?

David McIntosh Jr 4:35 Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Rufus Rice 4:35 Yeah, it's a bit like that. Yeah. Right.

David McIntosh Jr 4:37 Yeah. I once got burgled, and the person left 20 quid. [laughs]

Rufus Rice 4:43 [laughs] Yeah. It's in- it's considerate of them to leave a tip.

David McIntosh Jr 4:45 Yeah, yeah.

Rufus Rice 4:46 Isn't it? Yeah, it's nice.

David McIntosh Jr 4:47 Uh, so I live in Glasgow now. In Glasgow, where I live, it's, uh, where the university is, so there's quite a lot of international students.

Rufus Rice 4:54 Mm.

David McIntosh Jr 4:55 It's both... On the facade of it, it looks really rough, but it sounds really posh. So like every single day, I'm aware of being sc-

Rufus Rice 5:02 I don't think anything in Scotland is posh, by the way. But I think we have different ideas of what it is, because we're, we're looking at it from a different side.

David McIntosh Jr 5:09 Okay.

Rufus Rice 5:09 'Cause-

David McIntosh Jr 5:10 Okay

Rufus Rice 5:11 ... posh, posh people are a minority, right? Only 7% of the UK is posh.

David McIntosh Jr 5:16 Yeah. My diversity hire.

Rufus Rice 5:18 8% of the UK is Indian, so in a sense, I'm one of the big minorities out there. Like, you know, I'm... This is a real niche area here.

David McIntosh Jr 5:27 There will be a GoFundMe link at the end of this episode.

Rufus Rice 5:29 Yeah, you can donate. You could come put 20 quid through my letterbox, and maybe... [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 5:35 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 5:35 And I'll send you a photo of me down the pub with a round of drinks, so you can know exactly where your money's going. Um, but, um, within posh, there's also sub-levels of posh.

David McIntosh Jr 5:45 Yeah. Give me the hierarchy.

Rufus Rice 5:46 Um, the royal family is always the top level. That's... You can't be posher than actually being the king.

David McIntosh Jr 5:52 Do you wanna hear a flex?

Rufus Rice 5:54 Go on.

David McIntosh Jr 5:54 I Zoom called the queen.

Rufus Rice 5:56 Yeah?

David McIntosh Jr 5:56 In 2020. Like, not even bullshitting.

Rufus Rice 5:58 Was this like a... Was it like a birthday party, or was it like a work thing, or...?

David McIntosh Jr 6:03 Y- yeah, it was a anniversary of the company, so the company I worked for That I won't mention-

Rufus Rice 6:08 Mm

David McIntosh Jr 6:08 ... for obvious reasons. Uh-

Rufus Rice 6:09 It's Coutts, isn't it?

David McIntosh Jr 6:10 N- uh, no, actually.

Rufus Rice 6:11 It's not?

David McIntosh Jr 6:11 No, it's not.

Rufus Rice 6:12 Okay.

David McIntosh Jr 6:12 It's not Coutts. However, they had, uh, Buckingham Palace had been a client for however many hundreds of years.

Rufus Rice 6:18 Yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 6:18 And it was to, like, hallmark an anniversary, so they put the Scottish poor kid on screen.

Rufus Rice 6:23 Is she good on... Is she good chat, like?

David McIntosh Jr 6:25 She is good res.

Rufus Rice 6:26 Do you think?

David McIntosh Jr 6:26 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, she has charisma.

Rufus Rice 6:29 Right.

David McIntosh Jr 6:29 She, uh-

Rufus Rice 6:29 'Cause I, I-

David McIntosh Jr 6:30 S-

Rufus Rice 6:30 I'm just thinking about how painful it would be to get my, uh, grandpa to send an email.

David McIntosh Jr 6:35 Mm.

Rufus Rice 6:35 And I can't imagine, like, a 92-year-old woman on a Zoom would really know what's going on.

David McIntosh Jr 6:39 Well, funnily enough, I had to do a rehearsal with the Queen's private secretary a week before, and the private secretary [laughs] , not even joking, was a guy, a bloke in his 40s, black hair, spectacles, uh, would mimic the voice and the persona of the Queen.

Rufus Rice 6:55 [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 6:56 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 6:57 What, like he was doing an impression?

David McIntosh Jr 6:59 Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like-

Rufus Rice 7:01 That's great

David McIntosh Jr 7:02 ... I had to call him Her Majesty.

Rufus Rice 7:04 [snorts]

David McIntosh Jr 7:04 Uh, and that's-

Rufus Rice 7:05 Did, would-

David McIntosh Jr 7:05 ... uh, that's gender inclusion if you ask me.

Rufus Rice 7:07 At one point was he like... Were you like, "Oh, come on, bro," like? [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 7:10 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 7:11 "We both know how stupid this is."

David McIntosh Jr 7:13 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 7:14 That's funny.

David McIntosh Jr 7:14 Mm.

Rufus Rice 7:14 Did she, did she, like... Was she there for, for banter or did she seem extremely bored?

David McIntosh Jr 7:20 No, no, she was genuinely interested, you know? Uh-

Rufus Rice 7:24 Mm.

David McIntosh Jr 7:24 So my dad was a guard at Buckingham Palace.

Rufus Rice 7:25 Yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 7:25 So he was in the Scots Guards, and he used to guard Buckingham Palace, so we had that mutuality between us. Um-

Rufus Rice 7:31 Yeah, you had some, you had some links.

David McIntosh Jr 7:33 Yeah. [laughs]

Rufus Rice 7:33 Yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 7:34 One degree of separation, literally.

Rufus Rice 7:35 Do you have her on LinkedIn?

David McIntosh Jr 7:36 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 7:37 I bet she, I bet she had loads of friend, loads of connections on LinkedIn, right?

David McIntosh Jr 7:40 Uh, I think she'd be on Raya.

Rufus Rice 7:43 She was single for a bit there.

David McIntosh Jr 7:45 Yeah. [laughs]

Rufus Rice 7:46 There was a year or so where, like, I felt like I had a chance.

David McIntosh Jr 7:49 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 7:49 I never saw her there though, on Raya. Um, I'm not a big fan of, of Raya.

David McIntosh Jr 7:53 No.

Rufus Rice 7:53 Because I, I don't wanna shag Mason Mount.

David McIntosh Jr 7:56 Mm.

Rufus Rice 7:57 You know? And I feel like that's what's gonna happen, is I'm just gonna end up accidentally shagging a footballer. There's... It seems to be just footballers on there. I don't know what the al- that algorithm is doing for me. It's footballers and Lewis Capaldi. There's only-

David McIntosh Jr 8:09 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 8:10 ... only, only [laughs] people I've ever g- I ever think I have a chance with on there. Um-

David McIntosh Jr 8:14 So royalty is a top tier of-

Rufus Rice 8:16 Yes

David McIntosh Jr 8:17 ... posh people?

Rufus Rice 8:17 Although it's interesting, like, you bring up that thing. Like, it's, it's not like the, you having a Zoom call with the Queen can make you any posher. I think posh is an inbuilt-

David McIntosh Jr 8:26 Mm

Rufus Rice 8:27 ... thing. I don't think you can actually change it about yourself. And-

David McIntosh Jr 8:29 So if I met your mates on a night out and I tried to flex with that, they wouldn't welcome me because of it?

Rufus Rice 8:34 Um, well, I think they'd think that's pretty gauche.

David McIntosh Jr 8:37 Ga- gauche?

Rufus Rice 8:38 Gaauche. Yeah. That's like, um-

David McIntosh Jr 8:40 Teach me that, please.

Rufus Rice 8:41 I... That's like a-

David McIntosh Jr 8:43 That sounds like a STD.

Rufus Rice 8:45 Gaauche?

David McIntosh Jr 8:45 Yeah.

Rufus Rice 8:45 Like, "Oh, I've come down with a crippling case of the gauche."

David McIntosh Jr 8:48 Yeah, I need to get some antibiotics for my gauche.

Rufus Rice 8:50 Yeah, I think my willy's gonna drop off. Yeah, right. Um, no, they think it's ostentatious as in, um, like y- you, you're bringing that up because you think that everyone here would know the Queen.

David McIntosh Jr 9:05 Yeah.

Rufus Rice 9:05 Which it's not like that really. It's not like I know the Queen.

David McIntosh Jr 9:08 Okay.

Rufus Rice 9:08 Like, you're bringing that up to try and, like, ingratiate yourself into a world of people but, like, it's not like any of those people have any connection to her any- either.

David McIntosh Jr 9:15 Mm.

Rufus Rice 9:16 Um, but I... It's a misconception that I think poor people have that you can make yourself more posh or less posh, and you, you can't. It basically is determined by how old... At what point were your family wealthy in, in the history of this country? That's basically how it's determined.

David McIntosh Jr 9:33 So there's no such thing as real social mobility? You can't claim class?

Rufus Rice 9:36 Um, I, I think it take... You can't do it in a generation. Definitely not. You can't... Maybe you can make yourself middle class, but you can't make yourself posh.

David McIntosh Jr 9:46 Mm.

Rufus Rice 9:46 That's not possible. I can't make myself... I know people who are posher than me because their uncle is a lord, because their family was wealthy, like, a thousand years ago. And so that was back when the king, you know, they said, "Well, you know, you went on the crusade, and you went and murdered all those locals out there in the Middle East, so now you can have a lovely house." That's basically how it used to go back in the Crusades, right? You go and you kill some foreigners. You come back. "Here's some land, mate, and a title." And that's just been passed down for years and years and years. And even if your family lost all the money due to mismanagement over the course of many hundreds of years, you still have the t- you know, you still have the feeling, you know. The glory days are behind you. It's a little bit like, uh, when celebrities get a bit too famous. A bit, a bit like Britney, Britney Spears maybe.

David McIntosh Jr 10:33 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 10:33 Like, her real, her real glory days are behind her, and she went a bit mental and off the rails. Or your, your family finances go to shit and you end up just living in a normal house even though you're still a lord. But you're still Britney Spears at the end of the day.

David McIntosh Jr 10:45 Mm.

Rufus Rice 10:46 Um-

David McIntosh Jr 10:46 You may have a bald head, but you're still Britney Spears.

Rufus Rice 10:48 Yes. Yeah. Terrible. That is a bottom five trim of all time.

David McIntosh Jr 10:52 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 10:52 It's the, the Britney Spears shaved head. That's a... That is... She needs a refund from the barber for that.

David McIntosh Jr 10:57 Oh. With the lighting in here I look like, like her mid-haircut.

Rufus Rice 11:01 Sorry?

David McIntosh Jr 11:02 I look like Britney Spears mid-haircut. [laughs]

Rufus Rice 11:05 [laughs] They've just done the front half of yours. [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 11:10 Uh, I'm trying to rock a mullet, but it just looks like a normal haircut that's been blown back. [laughs]

Rufus Rice 11:14 Yeah. It's like your haircut's got... It's drifted a bit from its- [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 11:18 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 11:19 ... from its position.

David McIntosh Jr 11:20 Yeah.

Rufus Rice 11:20 Yeah, yeah. It's on a conveyor belt backwards.

David McIntosh Jr 11:23 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 11:23 We've got a mate like that.

David McIntosh Jr 11:24 Oh, yeah.

Rufus Rice 11:24 Minge his name is. 'Cause his name's Monty Hinge. And his haircut's literally on a conveyor belt.

David McIntosh Jr 11:30 Mm.

Rufus Rice 11:31 So he has the worst hairline of anyone I've ever seen.

David McIntosh Jr 11:33 Worse than mine?

Rufus Rice 11:34 It's way worse, mate. His, his al- It's almost in the back half of his skull.

David McIntosh Jr 11:39 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 11:39 [laughs] Which seems impossible, but he's also really long down the back. So it literally looks like you, you dropped his hair on the top of his head and a conveyor belt's just brought it back and around.

David McIntosh Jr 11:48 What are you rocking? Have you got some luscious locks?

Rufus Rice 11:50 Um-

David McIntosh Jr 11:50 Oh, you, you are sorted.

Rufus Rice 11:52 I, it-

David McIntosh Jr 11:53 Do you wanna be my donor?

Rufus Rice 11:54 I don't think... Is that how it works?

David McIntosh Jr 11:56 It could.

Rufus Rice 11:57 Is it like the NHS? You know, when you give blood and you save money on biscuits. [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 12:02 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 12:02 Does it work the same way?

David McIntosh Jr 12:03 Yeah.

Rufus Rice 12:03 Um, no, I, I do have hair, I just can never be bothered to actually do it, so I wear a hat all the time. Um, but, uh, yeah, royal family's posh. Next up, you got the nobility, people with titles, sirs, dukes, earls. Then you have the landed gentry, no title, but you got a nice house

David McIntosh Jr 12:21 Hmm. Landed gentry. Teach me that term

Rufus Rice 12:23 Landed gentry is just-

David McIntosh Jr 12:24 I'm so far from this, you know this

Rufus Rice 12:25 Yeah, but also so am I, 'cause it's not like anyone in my family's got any of this stuff. 'Cause-

David McIntosh Jr 12:31 You sound like you should

Rufus Rice 12:32 Yeah, but I just have a, the accent because I went to a nice school

David McIntosh Jr 12:35 Okay

Rufus Rice 12:36 Whereas, or a lot of people... The, these people were rich like 400 years ago. But it's not like my grandparents are rich. My parents just started a successful company and then, um, sent me to nice schools. That-

David McIntosh Jr 12:51 What type of company?

Rufus Rice 12:52 Uh, just travel companies. Yeah. I saw... You're a, you're an entrepre- entrepreneur deep down. I saw the sparks light up in your eyes-

David McIntosh Jr 13:00 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 13:00 ... when I mentioned starting a company. You, you like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shall we diary of a CEO it?

David McIntosh Jr 13:05 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 13:05 Yeah, yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 13:07 Uh, yeah. Tell me the, uh, the habits of highly successful people

Rufus Rice 13:10 Yeah, exactly. I mean, my parents have been semi-retired since 2013, so I'm not sure they're the best. Um, they retired at the earliest possible stage

David McIntosh Jr 13:18 Mm

Rufus Rice 13:19 Um, and they, they hi- Well, as soon as they, it made sense to hire someone to run the business for them, they did that, and then sort of just chilled

David McIntosh Jr 13:26 So your, your parents are first generation-

Rufus Rice 13:29 Yeah, like-

David McIntosh Jr 13:30 ... social mobile?

Rufus Rice 13:31 Yeah

David McIntosh Jr 13:31 They must be so disappointed in you. Like, they've set up all of the foundations for you to have a great life and career-

Rufus Rice 13:36 Mm

David McIntosh Jr 13:37 ... and then you chose TikTok comedy

Rufus Rice 13:39 They, they get it. They get it though, sort of

David McIntosh Jr 13:43 How... What quantifies-

Rufus Rice 13:44 My mum was the original influencer in our family

David McIntosh Jr 13:46 Oh. Porn star?

Rufus Rice 13:48 'Cause, 'cause she became a food journalist

David McIntosh Jr 13:49 Oh, okay

Rufus Rice 13:50 Which is close. Yeah, yeah. It's food porn

David McIntosh Jr 13:52 Food porn

Rufus Rice 13:52 She was making food porn for, like, middle-aged women.

David McIntosh Jr 13:55 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 13:55 They're like, "This, these lentils are so healthy." That's the sort of stuff they were making. And, um, I think my mum got 20K followers or something before I posted anything.

David McIntosh Jr 14:05 Really?

Rufus Rice 14:06 Yeah. Well, she, she was-

David McIntosh Jr 14:08 Showing off her beef

Rufus Rice 14:09 ... showing off various meats, veggies.

David McIntosh Jr 14:14 [laughs] The tone, the tone shift for veggies.

Rufus Rice 14:21 Just all-

David McIntosh Jr 14:21 That's so silly

Rufus Rice 14:21 ... all sorts of scran, really. Um, so my mum is totally on board with all of this stuff

David McIntosh Jr 14:27 Mm

Rufus Rice 14:27 And my parents are the original, the OG entrepreneurs, starting their own business. So they were just thrilled that I started my own one, 'cause I had to. 'Cause when TikTok took off, I just had to start, um, my own business. So they love that sort of stuff

David McIntosh Jr 14:40 Tell me about the origin story. Singapore

Rufus Rice 14:43 Mm

David McIntosh Jr 14:43 Private school-

Rufus Rice 14:44 It-

David McIntosh Jr 14:44 ... boarding school

Rufus Rice 14:45 ... that is bull by the bite. We can chuck all my childhood in the bin 'cause it has no relevance to my career. Because m- throughout my entire childhood, I just wanted to be an investment banker anyway. 'Cause I watched The Wolf of Wall Street when I was 13, and it changed my life, you know. Like most young boys, I was like, "I, I wanna get slops from Margot Robbie in that Ferrari. I want that to be me." Uh, 'cause I thought that was realistic goal. Um, did some work experience. Unfortunately, it was work experience at Deutsche Bank in 2019. You worked in finance. You probably know how bad of a year they had. They lost... Well, if any- anyone at home, they lost five billion euros. Uh, they got caught, uh, money laundering. They laid off 40,000 employees, I think, and they got caught doing some dodgy stuff with the Prime Minister of Malaysia and Jeffrey Epstein. So-

David McIntosh Jr 15:36 Rufus Rice reporting for financial news. Now for the weather.

Rufus Rice 15:39 Yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 15:41 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 15:42 Um-

David McIntosh Jr 15:44 Dude, I would love if you presented, like, the Financial Times or something like that [laughs]

Rufus Rice 15:47 Well, that's... How, how I started out, I imagined my TikTok skits being, would be like a segment of the news. So I used to do this, this thing. I don't really do this format loads anymore, but I had this, like, sort of shagger character who would introduce himself and then say, "Back to you in the studio," at the end, right? Um, because I imagined it being a sort of news segment where it was like the Muff Report.

David McIntosh Jr 16:07 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 16:08 I know that's, that's dumb, but you know. You watch enough Inbetweeners, you start to think this stuff's funny. And, um, so I'd be like, you know, Hello shaggers. I'd have a punny nickname. Machine Cum Kelly, for example

David McIntosh Jr 16:21 Mm

Rufus Rice 16:21 Or, uh, you know.

David McIntosh Jr 16:23 [laughs] I know.

Rufus Rice 16:26 I had a few, I have a f- few others as well. And then I'd do this, like, little report or whatever

David McIntosh Jr 16:30 I think given that reputational trust and the BBC has changed, I think that would bring it back

Rufus Rice 16:35 I think the news... It's always bad news, but there's never any bad news on the Muff Report.

David McIntosh Jr 16:42 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 16:44 It's, it's just all around good-

David McIntosh Jr 16:45 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 16:45 It's just all around good vibes, I think. It's, it would be uplifting for the nation.

David McIntosh Jr 16:50 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 16:52 But I think TV is so unpopular now.

David McIntosh Jr 16:54 Mm

Rufus Rice 16:54 There's no point in me trying to audition to, for a BBC News gig

David McIntosh Jr 16:57 Audition? [laughs] Like it's The X Factor. [laughs]

Rufus Rice 16:59 Yeah, they do auditions. [laughs] Like, I think if you, if you lobby them hard enough, they'll let you on the news, right?

David McIntosh Jr 17:06 [laughs] Yeah.

Rufus Rice 17:07 Yeah, yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 17:07 Uh, I'm interested in the boarding school upbringing because I went to skate- a skate school. I didn't go to a skate school. That would be pretty cool, though, if I went to skate school

Rufus Rice 17:15 Yeah, the Tony Hawk Academy.

David McIntosh Jr 17:17 [laughs] The... Yeah

Rufus Rice 17:18 Academy for Boys. Yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 17:21 [laughs] Yeah

Rufus Rice 17:22 We used to play them at football every year. They were dog shit. [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 17:27 [laughs] That is so fucking funny, man. So silly.

Rufus Rice 17:30 Yeah

David McIntosh Jr 17:30 So silly. Uh, state school

Rufus Rice 17:32 We used to play state schools at football every year, and we'd get rolled

David McIntosh Jr 17:35 Mm. Yeah, because they are used to-

Rufus Rice 17:37 But it's not really fair though, 'cause if, if they played cricket, we would fucking destroy them. But they don't... They're like, they're like, "We'll play you at our best sport," but we don't even get a chance to play them at rugby or, or cricket 'cause they don't even do it

David McIntosh Jr 17:48 Or croquet

Rufus Rice 17:50 Well, I mean-

David McIntosh Jr 17:51 Or polo

Rufus Rice 17:52 Oh, they... I don't think they've done that for years. I don't think they c- I don't think they could keep a horse for every kid for a whole year.

David McIntosh Jr 17:59 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 17:59 I think the fees would go up a lot if they had to do that. Yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 18:02 Yeah. Tell me about boarding school. The only reason I want to know is because if you were to tell me when I was 11 that my friend was going to school but had to live there-

Rufus Rice 18:11 Mm-hmm

David McIntosh Jr 18:12 ... I'd have presumed he was in an orphanage

Rufus Rice 18:13 Right. It's, yeah, it's like an orphanage. A lot of the kids there, it actually feels like an orphanage 'cause their parents actually don't love them So, like a lot of my roommates-

David McIntosh Jr 18:22 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 18:22 ... over the, over the years are sort of... There were a lot of rich Indians whose dads were massive businessmen. Maybe billi- billionaires, some of them, um, who were like, "Well, you're sort of interfering with my life. I've had some kids now, but you guys are all just getting in my way, really, so I'll ship you off to boarding school. And when you come back at 18, you're gonna go straight into the company." So that's, um, a lot of people had that sort of life, bit of a weird relationship with their parents. Um, it wasn't like that for me. I was thrilled to go. I couldn't wait to... I, I, I begged my parents to let me go to boarding school.

David McIntosh Jr 18:55 Why?

Rufus Rice 18:56 Because, like, when you're, like, 13, who wants to live with their parents? I'm a teenager. Like, my parents are lame, you know? I like them now, but at the time I'd... You know, it's starting to piss me off, all this sort of stuff. They, they used to make me do chores and stuff, and I was like, "Ah, I'd"-

David McIntosh Jr 19:12 You were calling modern slavery.

Rufus Rice 19:14 I, I, I th- I felt like my life was destined for greater pastures, you know?

David McIntosh Jr 19:19 Can you say that again but shed a tear? C- I wanna make a trailer.

Rufus Rice 19:22 I... Can you-

David McIntosh Jr 19:24 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 19:24 Can you cry on command? I tried to film a skit once where, um, I had to cry, but I, I c- I couldn't even squeeze out a tear, so I... In the end, I had to put pepper in my eyes. [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 19:35 I-

Rufus Rice 19:35 It really hurts. [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 19:37 Yeah. For, for me, it's easier because I had faced adversity growing up, so I just tap into my childhood trauma-

Rufus Rice 19:44 Yeah

David McIntosh Jr 19:45 ... and relive it.

Rufus Rice 19:45 Is... Do you think it's possible to live on a council estate and have no childhood trauma? Or i-i- do you eventually... Someone gets caught up with the stabists or, you know. Does eventually something go wrong? Is it a rite of passage in the estate?

David McIntosh Jr 20:00 I think you only realize you have trauma once you obtain life dysmorphia and you leave the council estate.

Rufus Rice 20:07 Okay. Well-

David McIntosh Jr 20:07 And then-

Rufus Rice 20:07 ... you're gonna have to explain what life dysmorphia... That sounds like something out of, like, a Marvel film for me.

David McIntosh Jr 20:12 [laughs] Like a, like a superpower?

Rufus Rice 20:15 Y- Well, it's like, um, something, something that the baddies are trying to steal from a, from a, from HQ, you know?

David McIntosh Jr 20:20 It's like body dysmorphia but around your life. So if you grow up in a council estate and you've never left-

Rufus Rice 20:25 Mm

David McIntosh Jr 20:25 ... the area, you just think your n- life is normal. You think it's normal to go hungry or for s-

Rufus Rice 20:31 See, that's funny because I know loads of people who, who deliberately fast for, [laughs] for health benefits. They, they starve themselves 'cause they think it's good for you.

David McIntosh Jr 20:40 Dude, I, I tried to call an agent the other day, uh, and I couldn't get through to him, and his voicemail was letting me know that he was on a fasting retreat. He's paid-

Rufus Rice 20:49 Mm

David McIntosh Jr 20:49 ... to go starve.

Rufus Rice 20:51 Yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 20:52 Like, people pay for silent retreats, you know? Whereas, like, growing up, I had to be silent or my dad would hit me.

Rufus Rice 20:57 I spent a week in-

David McIntosh Jr 20:58 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 21:01 I spent a week in India once in a rural village, uh, where they only had vegetarian food.

David McIntosh Jr 21:07 Oh.

Rufus Rice 21:07 And I was a picky eater. I was, like, seven years old. So I basically did an Indian fasting retreat in a village there. Because the only food I would eat is the stuff that we had already brought with us, which was basically just raisins. [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 21:20 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 21:20 So I just ate just a shitload of raisins for a week.

David McIntosh Jr 21:24 Oh.

Rufus Rice 21:24 'Cause I, I wasn't touching the lentil curry, you know? Good times, though. I, I... Maybe that's similar to a council es- Do you have internet? 'Cause they didn't have any internet out there.

David McIntosh Jr 21:34 Yeah, I was groomed on Club Penguin.

Rufus Rice 21:36 Oh. Do you have... I, I got a, a membership one year because I wanted an orange puffle.

David McIntosh Jr 21:43 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 21:43 My igloo was fucking sick. All the hoes were hanging out in my igloo, bro. I swear.

David McIntosh Jr 21:48 Oh, dude.

Rufus Rice 21:48 You know?

David McIntosh Jr 21:48 We have went off on a tangent. Boarding school.

Rufus Rice 21:51 Yeah. Um-

David McIntosh Jr 21:52 Any tales that bring to life what it's like to be in a Asian boarding school?

Rufus Rice 21:56 Our, our school was quite a, uh... They, they fancied themselves a woke school. Forward-thinking.

David McIntosh Jr 22:03 Progressive.

Rufus Rice 22:04 Progressive. Building the leaders of tomorrow. So to say, they did not produce students like that really, but that's, that was their idea. That's what it was founded on. Um, so the biggest argument that raged at this school was that every other week on Wednesdays, they would have Veggie Wednesdays, where it's just vegetarian food. Because I think, as we all know, meat farming, if that's a phrase, which it isn't, um, is very resource intensive and bad for the planet, right? So as a gesture, once a week, once every two weeks, we wouldn't eat, we... There wouldn't be any meat at, served at school. And the gym bros hated this. "'Cause how am I gonna get my gains in," right? Genuinely, this was a thing. Um-

David McIntosh Jr 22:53 This is not a bit. This is real.

Rufus Rice 22:54 This all happened, and I went... I was a member of the student council, so I had to do the propaganda for Veggie Wednesdays because the head of schools, the head of school was in favor of it, and he s- c- came to the student council and he goes, "You have to promote this stuff in assembly and try and, like, get into, [laughs] get into-

David McIntosh Jr 23:13 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 23:14 "... get into the mind of the students that this is a good idea, because we're getting some backlash on this and we don't like it." So I went in there and I d- I messed up on stage.

David McIntosh Jr 23:24 On stage?

Rufus Rice 23:25 Yeah, 'cause it's in an assembly-

David McIntosh Jr 23:26 Oh, okay

Rufus Rice 23:26 ... in front of everybody.

David McIntosh Jr 23:27 You weren't doing a performance?

Rufus Rice 23:29 No, it wasn't like a school play. Uh, this was... I was doing the notices and I was talking about Veggie Wednesday. And I, and I said like, "Look, we know that nobody really likes this. We're trying to make, improve it for everybody." But that's not how it came out. Basically, I roasted it, 'cause I wasn't in favor of this. I roasted it in front of everybody, and I got dragged in by the head of school, and he goes, "Next assembly you have to write an apology and, and go and read it out in front of everybody." And I was like, "An apology to, to wh- to who?" And he's like, "Vegetarians, vegetarian food."

David McIntosh Jr 24:05 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 24:05 So I had to go up there at assembly and go, "I apologize to all the vegetarians out there." [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 24:13 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 24:13 It's so ridiculous now you look back at it. Imagine you doing that at your school.

David McIntosh Jr 24:17 Oh.

Rufus Rice 24:17 I had to go and apologize to, to vegetarians and vegans in front of everybody.

David McIntosh Jr 24:21 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 24:22 And I could see everyone in the crowd going like, "Oh, this is so ridiculous." Yeah, so that's, that's what my school was like. It wasn't like a strict- ... school. The craziest thing that happened, nobody was throwing a chair at a teacher

David McIntosh Jr 24:33 Mm

Rufus Rice 24:33 Craziest thing that happened was this guy got three days suspension for making a diss track on another student. It was, it was a bit like High School Musical [laughs] or something.

David McIntosh Jr 24:41 What were the catering facilities like? At my school there was like a white unhygienic van outside the school, and it would serve like what we have in Scotland, uh, s- square sausage. It's like this delicacy that we have. There's just [laughs] delicacy that we have. Um-

Rufus Rice 24:57 I can imagine it, yeah

David McIntosh Jr 24:57 ... and 35 pence energy drinks, and that was the entire menu, and that would be our school lunch.

Rufus Rice 25:02 What, school they served that?

David McIntosh Jr 25:04 At school.

Rufus Rice 25:04 We had like a tandoori oven.

David McIntosh Jr 25:06 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 25:07 They, they, they were making, they were making naans in front of you.

David McIntosh Jr 25:10 You had a Ninja Bullet for the smoothies?

Rufus Rice 25:12 Ma- ma- of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had a Ninja Bullet. We had... Yeah, there was a full-

David McIntosh Jr 25:16 NutriBullet, that sort of-

Rufus Rice 25:17 There was a full artisan bakery-

David McIntosh Jr 25:20 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 25:20 ... for break time. It was pro- it was producing like focaccias.

David McIntosh Jr 25:23 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 25:24 Just focaccias out the wazoo. Ciabattas, focaccias, rolls. Anything you, anything you want. Well, see there, there was like a-

David McIntosh Jr 25:33 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 25:34 It was sort of a Subway, but not really. So you could get a sub and then, yeah, yeah, there was a, there was a genuine tandoor oven in there as well. The Indian counter, the, the great, yeah. So fresh naan. I probably ate butter chicken every day for four years, which isn't that good for you I don't think, but whatever.

David McIntosh Jr 25:53 After boarding school, did you go to university? Did you study?

Rufus Rice 25:57 Yeah. So I spent a very unfortunate, uh, gap year with a broken leg in a flat share in Wembley, uh, attempting to go to music college. But it was COVID, so you couldn't go, and you t- you try doing a live performance over Zoom. Like it's not good, right? [laughs] You c- you can't do it. You can't drum on FaceTime.

David McIntosh Jr 26:21 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 26:21 You can't. Um-

David McIntosh Jr 26:22 You can strum, but you can't drum.

Rufus Rice 26:24 Exactly. And, um, so that was terrible. So I, I packed, I packed the music college stuff in and I went to real university. Then when I was there I was like, "I've... This is so boring. I don't wanna do this." And I'd already had terrible work experience, so I was like, "I don't wanna do a corporate job." And I went to my parents and I said, "Look, I don't like this." And they were like, "We'll support you in whatever you do, but you have to show us that you're really committed to it." So I s- I just started... Like, I was doing music, I was playing open mics, I was going around g- uh, local gigs and stuff. I was putting it online, and I also started making comedy stuff 'cause I was just, you know, I was just, uh, why not? I'll... I hate to use this phrase, I'll throw the hot dog down the hallway and I'll see if it makes contact with anything. So I was just putting anything and everything out there. And within a month, um, I, I had a video that did well. It was me reviewing the night after my 20th birthday in which every single one of my friends, man, woman, all of them, uh, pulled except me. Um, and I woke up in the morning and I needed a shit and I didn't have any toilet paper. I had to wipe my ass with, with A4. [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 27:37 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 27:37 Um, so I, I made a video about that, and that got, what, 100,000 views or something, and I thought, "Well, I'm in here." And I just never stopped posting. That's the main, that's the main thing. Just don't stop posting. You, you'll easily make it.

David McIntosh Jr 27:51 At what point did your life like materially change where you were like, "Oh, I can do this for a job. I can make money doing this. I can be self-sufficient enough doing this"?

Rufus Rice 27:58 Um, well, I... After two years of uni, I was making enough money where, like it was like, it wasn't loads of money, but it was a job kind of amount of money. A reasonable amount of money. And I thought, "I'll take a year out of uni, and I can come back after a year. If I fail, I can come back. Depends how this year goes." So I just took a year out, and I just did it full time, and then I never stopped, and I dropped out of uni eventually. But I did have to have a slightly awkward meeting with my very old director of studies, and I thought, "Am I gonna have to explain to this guy and show him my videos so that he approves my leave?"

David McIntosh Jr 28:38 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 28:39 'Cause this guy's like 80 years old. Starting off, "What is TikTok?" You've got a lot of work of, in front of you there. I mean, this guy can barely read off a whiteboard.

David McIntosh Jr 28:48 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 28:49 And then secondly, am I gonna have to show him these videos? That's embarrassing. He's not gonna like this stuff. But he didn't. He approved it straight away, so it was fine. I took basically no risks. Um...

David McIntosh Jr 29:04 I think about the, the reach and exposure that you had instantly, 'cause I came across your stuff years and years ago-

Rufus Rice 29:09 Mm

David McIntosh Jr 29:09 ... and at its first instance, was it worth trading your anonymity out in the street for the, the virality? I can imagine there was a point where you didn't have the material components to offset being well known. Like you'd go down Oxford Street and people would want selfies, or you couldn't go to a café without someone recognizing you.

Rufus Rice 29:29 I'm at a nice level I think.

David McIntosh Jr 29:31 Yeah?

Rufus Rice 29:31 Like if you were Kanye, your life would be terrible 'cause you just get con-

David McIntosh Jr 29:35 Surely loads of people recognize you out in London.

Rufus Rice 29:37 Yeah, but it's not like I'm a celebrity. I just get recognized every now and again, and most of the interactions are very nice. Um, so it happens every now and again, and it's a nice little ego boost. It doesn't get to the point where it interrupts my activities. I'm still a completely normal person, especially in Brighton, 'cause there's a lot of, um, sort of alternative, shall we say. The, the blue hair mafia are not my fans, and there's a lot of them in Brighton. You know, the sort of, uh, the, the, the, the, the lesbian, masculine lesbian dragoons unit, the bombardiers, uh, the muff divers. You know, they, they are not watching my stuff.

David McIntosh Jr 30:15 Yeah. Just the other battalions in the British Army are.

Rufus Rice 30:19 Yeah. My demographic is very concentrated in people who are exactly like me, with the same haircut, and who wear the same clothes, and have the same accent, and went sort of to the same school, just with less talent. Like, but I feel like a lot of people get that, that their audience are a reflection of themselves. ... uh, just not, um, funny or, or whatever. Yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 30:40 Is the goal still to be a musician?

Rufus Rice 30:42 Yeah, I'd much... I'd pack this in immediately if I could sustain it full time. Problem is, when you release music, nobody gives a shit about it. That's the main problem. Whereas if you make comedy and somebody laughs, they'll like it.

David McIntosh Jr 30:54 Mm.

Rufus Rice 30:55 But when you release music, people have to... Every time you hear a song for the first time, you think it's shit, even if it's one of the best songs ever. You have to warm up to music. That's how, that's how it works. You can't just... It's not like immediately someone becomes your favorite artist after one listen, but someone can be- become your favorite TikToker after two TikToks, 'cause if it's so funny.

David McIntosh Jr 31:14 Yeah. Laughing is so biological-

Rufus Rice 31:17 Mm

David McIntosh Jr 31:17 ... and it's so binary. You either laugh or you don't.

Rufus Rice 31:18 That is an excellent analysis from you there.

David McIntosh Jr 31:20 Yeah.

Rufus Rice 31:20 Yeah, yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 31:21 Yeah. When I interviewed Jimmy Carr, he said that, uh, he's like a drug dealer, but the audience already have the drugs on them, and by telling a joke, they take it, and those drugs are like dopamine, uh, dopamine, not adrenaline, dopamine, endorphins.

Rufus Rice 31:38 I've... I find it so funny how different he is on podcast to his stand-up.

David McIntosh Jr 31:42 Oh, yeah. He's like a, um, a modern messiah. He's, like, so well educated-

Rufus Rice 31:48 Yeah

David McIntosh Jr 31:49 ... so highbrow. Uh-

Rufus Rice 31:51 And then he goes on stage, and he goes like, "You're a fat cunt."

David McIntosh Jr 31:53 Yeah. [laughs]

Rufus Rice 31:54 [laughs] It's just so, so funny. Yeah. But yeah, that guy knows almost everything, I would say. He knows too much stuff, that guy.

David McIntosh Jr 32:02 Too much stuff.

Rufus Rice 32:02 Yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 32:02 Yeah, he's been-

Rufus Rice 32:03 It's a bit... It's getting a little bit scary.

David McIntosh Jr 32:05 Yeah. Have you... You've interviewed... No. Have you interviewed him yet?

Rufus Rice 32:07 No. I'd love to have him on the show, but, um, we, we have trouble, [laughs] we have trouble attracting the, um, that sort of level of comedian because we're, like, way younger than they are.

David McIntosh Jr 32:21 Mm.

Rufus Rice 32:22 And they don't know who we are. Like, all, all the stand-ups who are around our age, it's like no problem. Like, we kn- we know a lot of the other comedians and stuff, and they come on our show, and we go on theirs and stuff. But that, that sort of level, comedians who are in their 40s, 50s, they don't... Like, they have no idea who, who we are. So, like, they... Their agents will shoo us away, which is okay.

David McIntosh Jr 32:43 How do they feel towards your stand-up and your content as, like, a new wave of what it means to be a stand-up comedian? It's all TikTok-

Rufus Rice 32:52 Yeah

David McIntosh Jr 32:52 ... driven, reel driven, that then convert to live performances opposed to the inverse.

Rufus Rice 32:57 I don't really consider myself a stand-up comedian because I think a stand-up comedian is the sort of person who grinds it out on the circuit, and they go, and they do 20 minutes in Shropshire to a general comedy audience.

David McIntosh Jr 33:14 Mm.

Rufus Rice 33:14 I don't go and do that. I'm not going out and, like, dropping a tight five at Top Secret Comedy Club, right? I'm not about that 'cause I don't wanna fail in front of randoms. That's not what I'm about. I, so I'm going on tour this year, right? But everyone who buys a ticket will be- already be a fan of me, so I, I don't need to prove anything-

David McIntosh Jr 33:33 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 33:34 ... to anybody there. And I know exactly that it's... I know it's gonna go well 'cause I know exactly the kind of humor those people like 'cause I've already been making it for four years.

David McIntosh Jr 33:42 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rufus Rice 33:43 So I c- it's basically I can just do my actual jokes and do that.

David McIntosh Jr 33:45 You've filtered out the people that won't like your stuff-

Rufus Rice 33:47 Exactly

David McIntosh Jr 33:48 ... by coming on there.

Rufus Rice 33:48 It's a, it's a self-filtering process, whereas I, I'm not, like, gonna slog it out on the circuit, like a, like a real stand-up would.

David McIntosh Jr 33:57 Yeah.

Rufus Rice 33:57 I'm gonna take the easy route. So I don't consider myself a stand-up in that way, although I w- will be doing, you know, live comedy. It's not really, like... You know, I'm not... I, I feel like stand-up's really awkward, and you, you go out there, and you don't really know what to expect, and the audience don't know you, and it's, like, kind of... Also, also, like, I've, I've seen a lot of bad stand-up, um, over the years.

David McIntosh Jr 34:20 Dude, I've been part of that. I, I used to do some open mics in Glasgow, and, like, I'd find myself on a Wednesday evening doing five minutes in a Afro-Caribbean restaurant in the corner without a microphone or lights.

Rufus Rice 34:29 Yeah. I look at that, and I'm like, "Why the fuck would I do that?" [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 34:33 Yeah. Character building, dude.

Rufus Rice 34:35 So I skipped, I skipped that whole thing. I was like, "I know it's character building, and it's probably a good experience. I'm not doing it. I don't care. I don't..." [laughs] I... If, if I can sell... If I can just sell a tour, I'll just do that. I'm not... I don't have to, you know, go to Lincoln for £20.

David McIntosh Jr 34:51 Have you benefited from any sort of nepotism in the content and comedy world?

Rufus Rice 34:55 People accuse me of this all the time because I have an ac- a posh accent, but it's not like my parents have any connections in this world whatsoever.

David McIntosh Jr 35:03 Yeah, you can't inherit followers.

Rufus Rice 35:05 Yeah. Like, what do my... My dad has, what, 12 Facebook friends maybe. [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 35:09 [laughs] Your mom's got 20,000.

Rufus Rice 35:11 My mom's got 20,000, but they're all, uh, middle-aged women with an interest in healthy eating, so I'm not sure that helped me at all. I, I, yeah, I, I, I, I benefited, I benefited in the sense that, like, at no point was I really struggling to make ends meet, and I was like, "Well, maybe I'll have to quit doing this and go back to uni." But-

David McIntosh Jr 35:30 So you had a greater risk appetite.

Rufus Rice 35:33 Yes. That is... I mean, that's an essen- that is such a... [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 35:37 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 35:37 That's, that is such a financial way of putting it, but yeah, I had a higher propensity for risk.

David McIntosh Jr 35:42 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 35:42 Yeah. I had a lo- lower risk adversity than anybody else.

David McIntosh Jr 35:46 Yeah, yeah.

Rufus Rice 35:46 Um, but-

David McIntosh Jr 35:48 Whereas I'd, I'd have, like, a more diversified employment portfolio.

Rufus Rice 35:52 Yeah, exactly. You actually worked in some real jobs. But I, once, once I-

David McIntosh Jr 35:56 I got paid by the hour.

Rufus Rice 35:57 I've, I've done that. You know, I put in a shift.

David McIntosh Jr 36:00 Where?

Rufus Rice 36:01 I've got calluses on my hands, mate.

David McIntosh Jr 36:03 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 36:03 Where my rings rub against my palm. Um, oh, I made cocktails for, like, nine months.

David McIntosh Jr 36:08 [laughs] Aw. Aw.

Rufus Rice 36:10 I know. It is tough life. But we-

David McIntosh Jr 36:12 Did you not massage HIV patients for-

Rufus Rice 36:15 Yeah, that was-

David McIntosh Jr 36:16 ... a few months?

Rufus Rice 36:16 So I massaged HIV patients at school. That wasn't a job.

David McIntosh Jr 36:20 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 36:21 That wasn't a job. That was a school requirement in order to graduate. That, I did... I was doing that for free.

David McIntosh Jr 36:28 Please elaborate.

Rufus Rice 36:29 So at school, part of the curriculum was you had to participate in a community service. And some of them are a lot more popular because they're easier than other ones. Like, some of them was just gardening.

David McIntosh Jr 36:42 But not you. You were on your green set.

Rufus Rice 36:44 Well, I forgot to sign up.

David McIntosh Jr 36:45 You were on your green set.

Rufus Rice 36:46 I forgot to sign up, so I got the last, uh, thing. I got the worst thing, which there were still positions available for, and I had to go and rub old ladies, old emaciated ladies on their deathbeds with late-stage HIV in a Singaporean hospital every Thursday for two years. Um, and they loved it 'cause I was, you know, I was young, I was cute. They don't get a lot of human contact, those guys.

David McIntosh Jr 37:14 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 37:14 High- highly stigmatized condition in Singapore because they think if you have HIV you must be gay, which is illegal, right? So their families disown-

David McIntosh Jr 37:22 Illegal in Singapore?

Rufus Rice 37:23 It was illegal... It's still illegal. You can't marry... You definitely can't marry your mate in Singapore. I don't think you could kiss your mate on a night out. I think it's technically still illegal to bum your mate. But-

David McIntosh Jr 37:37 What are the technicalities?

Rufus Rice 37:39 It's where it's quite difficult to catch you, I think, unless you're just doing it in public on s- on, on, you know, on that building with the three towers with the boat on it that they have in Singapore.

David McIntosh Jr 37:48 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 37:48 If you were doing it on the top of that, they would catch you, and you-

David McIntosh Jr 37:50 Or in the airport. They would as a bit.

Rufus Rice 37:52 You would... Yeah, or i- in the butterfly garden in the airport maybe. They would definitely catch you there. If you're doing it in your own home, it is still illegal, but I'd... They're not really gonna get you. Um-

David McIntosh Jr 38:01 It's like not paying your TV license. They could check, but they probably won't.

Rufus Rice 38:05 Yeah. Yeah, they don't really. Yeah. Um, it's like tapping in on the Underground. You know, when y- I've got a card with no money on it, but the doors still open if you tap it.

David McIntosh Jr 38:15 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 38:15 It's a top tip for anyone out there. You know, if there's any tin rattlers out there, homeless people looking for some strats.

David McIntosh Jr 38:22 My s- my audience is Scottish, so they will be.

Rufus Rice 38:24 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The best train to beg on is the Gatwick Express because all the foreigners come on, and they, they... You catch them by surprise on their way to London. They've all got cash 'cause they don't understand international money, and they're usually much nicer than British people. British people are cynical and horrible. You should get some Germans. They've got a real sense of right and wrong, those guys. Um...

David McIntosh Jr 38:50 Where were we? Uh... That's like a tangent.

Rufus Rice 38:54 Did you just, did you just bust a nut? [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 38:57 What was that? [laughs]

Rufus Rice 39:00 What was that? [laughs] Oh, I can't remember what we were talking about, but it's sort of your job to keep track, so I'm hoping you, you sort of had something.

David McIntosh Jr 39:07 As a very serious interviewer, usually I do do that. How differential is your online persona and your, and your real-life persona? What do people-

Rufus Rice 39:18 It's, it-

David McIntosh Jr 39:18 ... get wrong about you?

Rufus Rice 39:18 The only difference is energy levels, I would say.

David McIntosh Jr 39:20 Yeah?

Rufus Rice 39:21 Yeah. Like, my online persona is just a more amped up version of me, but there's not a huge difference. Um, but it's interesting when you meet people, though. Some people really do play a character. Some people are exactly the same. Big John, for example.

David McIntosh Jr 39:35 What's he like in real life?

Rufus Rice 39:35 Exactly the same.

David McIntosh Jr 39:36 Oh, he's the, the same?

Rufus Rice 39:37 Yeah. Completely, exactly the same. I'm not even sure he's, he is aware he's getting filmed sometimes 'cause his son is the one who films all of it. And I think sometimes Big John will just be doing something, and his son will just flick his phone on and capture him in the moment. There's a pleasing organic nature to his content. I'm not sure if you've noticed. Like, like-

David McIntosh Jr 39:56 We don't talk about that enough, you know? Like-

Rufus Rice 39:57 I went round there, and this guy lives the game. He eats more, he eats more fucking Chinese than Chairman Mao, this guy. [laughs] Like, like if, like if, if you stacked up total amount of Chinese food eaten between him and Chairman Mao, it would be close. It would be really close.

David McIntosh Jr 40:13 Neck and neck.

Rufus Rice 40:14 'Cause Chairman Mao probably ate m- he p- he was probably having Chinese food three times a day, I think that's safe to say. He wasn't having, like, you know, Pizza Hut. Um, but John eats a lot more than Chairman Mao, I think, per meal.

David McIntosh Jr 40:27 Per meal.

Rufus Rice 40:28 So it would be close.

David McIntosh Jr 40:29 Less frequent, but more per meal.

Rufus Rice 40:30 Well, he still has a... He, he has at least four Chinese' a week, which is good going. Like, they're not small.

David McIntosh Jr 40:37 We need to get an economist in to, like, do the, the stats and figures on that.

Rufus Rice 40:40 He's probably single-handedly keeping the, the Chinese community afloat.

David McIntosh Jr 40:45 Big John?

Rufus Rice 40:45 Yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 40:46 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 40:47 Well, he must have spent, like... I think I calculated this, about how many... It's more than a million pounds on takeaway or something ridiculous-

David McIntosh Jr 40:54 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 40:54 ... throughout his life. If he's having four Chinese' a week, he spends, like, 250 quid every time.

David McIntosh Jr 40:59 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 40:59 So 1,000 pounds a week on Chinese. 50,000 pounds a year, you do it for 20 years, it's a million pounds on Chinese takeaway. So, um [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 41:09 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 41:09 But yeah, that guy's the same. I tried to out-eat him once, and I ended up throwing up in his downstairs toilet. That was nice.

David McIntosh Jr 41:15 And that's the commerce update from Rufus Rice. Now for the sport.

Rufus Rice 41:18 Now for the sport. Don't... I like sport. Now for the weather. [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 41:26 [laughs] Oh.

Rufus Rice 41:30 Yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 41:30 I, I wanted to ask you, have you watched the Louis Theroux manosphere documentary, and what are your takes on it?

Rufus Rice 41:35 I haven't seen it all the way through. Um, I th- I think it's probably good. B- and I know that's a, that's a freezing cold take because anything Louis Theroux does is generally interesting, uh, apart from when he did an interview with Craig David. I'm not sure if you've, if you listened to this.

David McIntosh Jr 41:55 No.

Rufus Rice 41:55 Might be the most boring thing [laughs] I've, I've ever sat through. It's, it's just that Craig David is, is not, like, Mr. Banter. That's basically the only thing. Um, anyway, this manosphere thing...

David McIntosh Jr 42:10 A- are you part of it?

Rufus Rice 42:12 No, because y- you have to... I feel like you have to live and breathe it. Like, I don't live a lifestyle where I'm, I'm... I genuinely think, like, looks maxing is cool. I don't go home and, like, mew in my mirror-

David McIntosh Jr 42:26 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 42:26 ... every day. And, like, clearly I don't try and improve my physique 'cause my physique has been decidedly average for the last 23 years. Um, and we, we, we make- You know, edgy jokes on our podcast. But it's just a comedy podcast. We don't take those values into the real world and apply them to my own, own life. So, um, no, I'm not, I'm not part of it. But I do have a very manly audience, which I'm upset about. I'd mu- I'd prefer a much more diversified audience, 'cause women like to spend money, like a lot more. I would make so much more money if, if I was, like, a heartthrob. I was thinking one of these summers I need to get in shape and become, like, a sexy guy.

David McIntosh Jr 43:07 Yeah. You need to-

Rufus Rice 43:07 You know, re- rebrand myself as, like a-

David McIntosh Jr 43:09 Ball and smash.

Rufus Rice 43:09 Yeah. Rebrand myself as, like, a, a hot, hot, cool guy instead of, like, a sort of weird guy. 'Cause when girls say that they're attracted to me, it's always conditional.

David McIntosh Jr 43:19 Mm. And what are those conditions? Follow account?

Rufus Rice 43:21 No, it's, it's always, like, "I'm weirdly attracted to this guy."

David McIntosh Jr 43:25 Mm.

Rufus Rice 43:25 Or, like, "I'm attracted, I'm attracted to this guy and I can't tell anyone about it." And it's like, "Why?" [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 43:32 [laughs] You're some people's guilty pleasure.

Rufus Rice 43:34 Yes, exactly. Like, peop- people, fans of our show, it's a bit of a meme on our show that the fans of it don't tell their friends that they listen to it.

David McIntosh Jr 43:42 Mm.

Rufus Rice 43:43 Like, everyone's listens in secret, in hiding, if you will. Um, which is, which is fine, but I'd much prefer that everyone just likes our show openly.

David McIntosh Jr 43:52 Yeah.

Rufus Rice 43:52 Yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 43:52 Like pornography, everyone knows it's consumed, but no one discusses it.

Rufus Rice 43:56 I discuss it. At least, well, at least twice a week. 'Cause we do two, two podcast episodes a week. It gets brought up every single time.

David McIntosh Jr 44:04 Pornography?

Rufus Rice 44:05 Yeah, definitely.

David McIntosh Jr 44:06 Categories.

Rufus Rice 44:07 Categories.

David McIntosh Jr 44:08 Watch history. What do you speak about?

Rufus Rice 44:10 Well, you know, technique. Time, time of day, frequency.

David McIntosh Jr 44:14 Weather.

Rufus Rice 44:15 Yeah. Well, we, we were debating the other day, this isn't strictly pornography. You know in Newton's cradle where you pick up the ball on the one, one hand, and then it goes... I've got-

David McIntosh Jr 44:23 This is, yeah, this is, this is strictly not pornography, yeah.

Rufus Rice 44:25 The physics demonstration. This... I'll tie it back, but basically we were debating, like, if you lined up, like, three or four juicy nut sacks, could you drop one down and it would, and it would hit on the other side? Like, d- would that also work, or was Newton wrong about the physics of that? And we determined that it's based on the weather. 'Cause too hot, obviously there's gonna be, um, static friction between the nut sacks, and they're gonna stick together, and it's not gonna work very well.

David McIntosh Jr 44:52 Funnily enough, my-

Rufus Rice 44:53 So you need to do it in Finland

David McIntosh Jr 44:54 ... my podcast categorically is in education, and this conversation-

Rufus Rice 44:59 I think, I think-

David McIntosh Jr 45:00 ... re- remind me why

Rufus Rice 45:00 ... I think you get to choose that though, don't you?

David McIntosh Jr 45:02 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rufus Rice 45:03 Like, when you sign up, you... They ask you.

David McIntosh Jr 45:05 And for this reason, that's why I chose it.

Rufus Rice 45:07 Yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 45:07 I knew I was gonna have this conversation.

Rufus Rice 45:09 Do you... When you have other guests on, is it actually educational? Do you ask them, like, real questions?

David McIntosh Jr 45:14 Oh, yeah. 100%. I-

Rufus Rice 45:15 Really? [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 45:16 Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, yeah.

Rufus Rice 45:17 Right. So it's not typically like-

David McIntosh Jr 45:19 No, when you arrived, you were like, "David, are you gonna ask me serious questions?"

Rufus Rice 45:23 Yeah, yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 45:23 And I was like, "Well..."

Rufus Rice 45:24 What I-

David McIntosh Jr 45:24 "Have you listened to the show?" And you said, "No."

Rufus Rice 45:27 Yeah. Uh, of course not. But I don't, I don't listen to podcasts. I, I skim through it. I listen to some clips. Um, but the reason I don't generally like serious questions is I don't feel I have any real advice to give people. I haven't lived enough life. I haven't faced enough problems. And, like, I can't, I can't give any- anyone anything that would actually help anybody in any situation ever, 'cause I don't really know what the answers are. Like, people ask, ask me, "Oh, how, how did you get where you were?" And I'm just like, "Oh, I'm a TikToker. I started posting TikToks. There you go."

David McIntosh Jr 46:02 D- do you feel like there's a responsibility to that though?

Rufus Rice 46:04 No, no, no, no, no.

David McIntosh Jr 46:05 No, but there'll be, there'll be a bunch of young lads who are growing up in different circumstances who want to be Rufus Rice.

Rufus Rice 46:11 Oh, please don't. Like, the... I d- I hate when people like celebrities, 'cause, like, why? Just... You, you could just do that. When people put celebrities on, on pedestals of, of any, of any type, um, when people have heroes and stuff, it's like, why do you love a random person so much? I'll never understand that. I, I don't have any heroes 'cause I don't think there's any point in, like, worshiping random people you don't know, if that makes sense. Yeah, some people have done some cool shit. Some people have written some great songs. I've got, you know, favorite music artists and stuff. But they're not, like-

David McIntosh Jr 46:45 Like, you wouldn't cry if you met them or ask for an autograph?

Rufus Rice 46:47 No. God, God, no. Yeah. Like, I'd, I'd... It doesn't matter who it was. Who, who would I like to... Like, if I'm walking... If I'm sitting in the pub and then, you know, Noel Gallagher walks in, I'd be like, "Oh, there's Noel Gallagher." But... And I love Oasis, but I j- it's just a guy though. It's just, like, a little man with a guitar, isn't he? Like, you know.

David McIntosh Jr 47:09 Kind of cute actually.

Rufus Rice 47:10 Yeah. I think, I think he's a... You know, he's a nice man with a unibrow, and that's okay. Um, but no, I, I don't... I think people, I think unintelligent people get starstruck. I really do. Or, like, unambitious people.

David McIntosh Jr 47:25 Or poor people.

Rufus Rice 47:27 Do, do poor people get s- starstruck do you think?

David McIntosh Jr 47:28 Yeah.

Rufus Rice 47:29 Really?

David McIntosh Jr 47:30 Usually.

Rufus Rice 47:30 But I think it's a working-class mindset because, uh, because w- working class get played against each other by the, by the, uh, elite, so they don't, like, engage in class warfare, right? 'Cause if they all banded together and engaged in class warfare, obviously the elite would be massively outnumbered.

David McIntosh Jr 47:48 There'd be an uprising, right?

Rufus Rice 47:49 There'd be an uprising. So they just pit them against each other, so everyone is, like, a self-hate... Like, w- pe- people who are working class are always like, "Oh, I'm, I'm working class. That's the life I'm destined for." Like, they have no aspirations or goals generally. Um-

David McIntosh Jr 48:02 They don't-

Rufus Rice 48:03 Which I'm sure you can relate to being on a council estate. Very different to being brought up in, in my environment where you're told you can absolutely be anything you want to be, and then there's a lot of sort of disappointed millennials going around who just work in an office, and it turns out they couldn't be anything they wanted to be.

David McIntosh Jr 48:19 Do any of your friends who still work in the city or work in corporate jobs feel that pressure? One of the things that I am grateful for is that my mom and dad had no expectations of me.

Rufus Rice 48:31 Right.

David McIntosh Jr 48:31 Because they had no expectations of people like us, you know?

Rufus Rice 48:35 Mm.

David McIntosh Jr 48:36 As long as I was in employment and I wasn't in jail, they were pretty happy.

Rufus Rice 48:39 Right.

David McIntosh Jr 48:40 Uh, but I had more privileged peers Uh, that were ushered into specific types of careers just because it was well remunerated or well-respected in the family. But-

Rufus Rice 48:50 Yeah, there's definitely people who get forced to do stuff, and whether they wanna be resentful about it is up to them and their relationship with their parents. But yeah, most... I would say there's an expectation that is almost impossible to fulfill, and we're getting into some genuine stuff here. This is one of the first generations where basically everyone is poorer than their parents on average. So people have been brought up in having these really nice lives, you know, and it's gonna be unsustainable for a lot of people, 'cause a lot of people just can't realistically make as much money as their parents. Um, so, you know, I'm hoping one day I can send my... I can give my children the sort of upbringing that I had, but that was a very, very expensive upbringing, and that's not gonna be feasible for the vast majority of people. So, um-

David McIntosh Jr 49:33 Do you think podcasting, comedy, and content will be the vehicle for that or do you think you'll have to get a normal job at some point again?

Rufus Rice 49:38 No, I don't think so. I think you can... I think I'll be a creative of some form forever. But, um, you know, if it all goes tits up, I'm still a qualified ski instructor.

David McIntosh Jr 49:51 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 49:53 [laughs] So I'll just do that. Um, that's my backup.

David McIntosh Jr 49:59 [laughs] Your academic insurance policy.

Rufus Rice 50:01 That's my safety, yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 50:04 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 50:05 Yeah. I never got to do it.

David McIntosh Jr 50:06 Yeah. My, uh, backup plan is a life of crime.

Rufus Rice 50:10 Yeah. You do look... You, you look like, you look like, um, a sort of secondary character from Peaky Blinders, I think.

David McIntosh Jr 50:17 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 50:18 I think if we put you in the suit, you'd look... You'd really fit in there.

David McIntosh Jr 50:21 Yeah. I feel like I could be in Oliver Twist too. Uh, where was I gonna go for that? Oliver... Yeah. One of the, one of the things I wanna end on is a segment I've curated just for this podcast.

Rufus Rice 50:34 I can't wait. This is gonna be great.

David McIntosh Jr 50:35 And it's, it's a big occasion. We're filming at Spotify HQ and with Rufus Rice.

Rufus Rice 50:39 Mm.

David McIntosh Jr 50:39 So I've developed a game that I've never developed before just for you, and it's a kind of posh or not type game.

Rufus Rice 50:47 Yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 50:47 Where you have to guess whether an area in Scotland is, like, a council estate or a sch- what we call a scheme, or somewhere that's posh.

Rufus Rice 50:55 Yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 50:56 So I'm just gonna say the name, and you can make your assumption.

Rufus Rice 50:57 Sure.

David McIntosh Jr 50:59 So Bearsden.

Rufus Rice 51:03 Bearsden.

David McIntosh Jr 51:05 Posh or not?

Rufus Rice 51:06 Sounds like a gay club, The Bearsden, doesn't it? Uh, l- let's go, let's throw it out. Let's go posh first up.

David McIntosh Jr 51:14 Agreed. Posh.

Rufus Rice 51:14 Is it? But what is your idea of... Like, what is Bearsden like?

David McIntosh Jr 51:18 Oh, it's got, like, detached houses. People own their own homes. There's a well-to-do school there. W- a lot of the yummy mummies and corporate executives live there.

Rufus Rice 51:30 Yeah. Right. So it's-

David McIntosh Jr 51:31 It's in proximity to a David Lloyd.

Rufus Rice 51:33 Yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 51:33 Do you have that here?

Rufus Rice 51:34 Yes. Yeah, I've... I'm not a member, but I've heard. I've heard great things. [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 51:39 Drumchapel.

Rufus Rice 51:40 No, that's gotta be... That's, like, the slums, right?

David McIntosh Jr 51:43 Correct.

Rufus Rice 51:44 Yeah. Fe- felt right.

David McIntosh Jr 51:48 Crynna.

Rufus Rice 51:50 Crynna. That's slum. I'm going slum again.

David McIntosh Jr 51:54 Posh.

Rufus Rice 51:55 Ah, okay. But it's, it's all relative, isn't it? That's a relative ghetto.

David McIntosh Jr 52:00 Saltcoats.

Rufus Rice 52:02 S- uh-

David McIntosh Jr 52:03 Saltcoats.

Rufus Rice 52:05 Unposh. That's gotta be slum.

David McIntosh Jr 52:06 Slum?

Rufus Rice 52:07 Yeah. [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 52:08 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 52:08 It's, it's not like a s- you... I, I... When you say slum, you got in, in mind of, like, people living in huts and stuff.

David McIntosh Jr 52:14 Yeah.

Rufus Rice 52:14 But it's not, it's not like-

David McIntosh Jr 52:15 It's not Slumdog Millionaire, but it's close.

Rufus Rice 52:17 Right. Yeah, yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 52:17 Like, it's a... What we would call a midge's ball hair away from it.

Rufus Rice 52:22 We knew this gay guy at school. We used to call him Bumdog Millionaire, but [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 52:26 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 52:27 That's not really relevant.

David McIntosh Jr 52:29 Pollok.

Rufus Rice 52:30 Pollok. Posh.

David McIntosh Jr 52:33 Scheme. It's a council estate.

Rufus Rice 52:36 Right.

David McIntosh Jr 52:36 Well, there's loads of council estates there. Have I got any more? Uh, hmm. Castlemilk.

Rufus Rice 52:47 Castlemilk. You're trying to throw me off with the castle stuff. Like, you think castle, you think it's posh. But it-

David McIntosh Jr 52:53 And milk. Milk's pretty posh.

Rufus Rice 52:54 Do you think?

David McIntosh Jr 52:55 Calcium.

Rufus Rice 52:56 Do you not, do you not have milk?

David McIntosh Jr 52:57 We don't have calcium.

Rufus Rice 52:58 No. It's only one of, like, the main foods. Um, yeah, it's gotta be a slum, right?

David McIntosh Jr 53:03 Slum.

Rufus Rice 53:04 Yeah. That's, that's a decent performance. I went, I went about 50/50 there, so I'll take that.

David McIntosh Jr 53:08 And you have been to Aberdeen.

Rufus Rice 53:09 I've been to Aberdeen. I flew there for one... Best night out I've ever had, by the way. I know, re- unbelievable. They really s- they really go for it in Aberdeen. There was not a lot on.

David McIntosh Jr 53:20 Everyone's indoors 'cause it's cold outside.

Rufus Rice 53:21 Yeah. So it was just a mad, it was just a mad night out. But, um, yeah. So my mum lived there in the '80s. She told me horror stories about Aberdeen. She said it's terrible. It's so rough. Turns out they discovered oil somewhere between the '80s and now, and actually it's quite... It's been gentrified. It's [laughs] actually quite nice. I was walking down lovely restaurants next to the river downtown. Had a great night out and flew home in the morning. That was back when I was doing club nights, so I was, I was like getting-

David McIntosh Jr 53:47 Oh, club appearances

Rufus Rice 53:47 ... I was getting paid back, back then for that. I don't do that stuff anymore, but yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 53:51 Yeah, that crude oil money up in Aberdeen.

Rufus Rice 53:52 I used to go in there, sing Viva La Vida.

David McIntosh Jr 53:55 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 53:56 And then, um, yeah, come, [laughs] come out. You used to get decent money for that. You... I think it was, like, £1,000 a night, 1,500 quid, two grand.

David McIntosh Jr 54:05 Ooh.

Rufus Rice 54:05 Something like that. It was in there. Which, like, when you're of uni age, to go on a... To get paid to go on a uni night out, that's class.

David McIntosh Jr 54:13 Mm.

Rufus Rice 54:13 But it got to a point where I was like, "I'm too old for this now." And you get... You have other revenue streams at that point, so you're not... You don't have to do it.

David McIntosh Jr 54:22 Do you guys have a Patreon?

Rufus Rice 54:23 Yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 54:23 Does it do well?

Rufus Rice 54:24 Patreon's good money, yeah. And it's the, the only revenue stream where you can be sure of exactly how much money you're gonna make, 'cause all the other ones vary, right?

David McIntosh Jr 54:33 Like CPM-driven.

Rufus Rice 54:35 CPM-driven or, like, brand deals. Different companies are willing to pay you different amounts to do stuff, so you can never guarantee exactly how much money you, you make. But Patreon, same amount every month It's the only one

David McIntosh Jr 54:46 It's funny how straight, white guys like us would condemn OnlyFans for years, and then when Patreon was like gen-

Rufus Rice 54:52 Oh, I don't put my cock on Patreon [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 54:55 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 54:55 Let's just be clear. Let me be clear about that. Um, it's, it's just podcasts, I think. If the OnlyFans girls were just doing podcasts on OnlyFans, I'd be fine with it as well. Yeah, yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 55:07 It's just-

Rufus Rice 55:07 I just, I just fundamentally don't accept paying for porn. I don't think it's more ethical. I think it's... that is just a system ripe for exploitation. Someone's getting exploited along the way, no matter how you slice it.

David McIntosh Jr 55:19 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 55:20 Right? Um, they, they just shift the exploitation around. In traditional porn, it was like the, the women in the, in the porn getting exploited, but now it's just like teenage... ma- male teenagers getting exploited in sort of parasocial ways. So any way you slice it is unethical in my opinion. Maybe that's... that's quite an insightful take, I think.

David McIntosh Jr 55:39 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 55:39 That's, that's a good bit of podcasting, that. Yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 55:42 That's some serious podcasting.

Rufus Rice 55:43 Yeah, yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 55:45 You have an inventor in your family, the Malteser.

Rufus Rice 55:50 Nobody believes me about this. I'm glad you brought this up 'cause I've got scores to settle. I... This gets brought up once every few months, I would say, um, of people asking me about my family history. And I have to say that we did not benefit financially from this invention whatsoever. My great-great-grandad-

David McIntosh Jr 56:08 Malteser money would've been good

Rufus Rice 56:10 ... Yeah, but he would... He just worked. People, people don't fathom... People can't fathom this idea that sometimes you just work somewhere, and you come up with a great idea, and it makes the company loads of money, but you don't get any money 'cause you just work there, right?

David McIntosh Jr 56:21 Yeah.

Rufus Rice 56:22 It's like the person who came up with Spotify Wrapped, right? I know you're out there somewhere. We're at Spotify HQ. You, you're probably s- chilling in this building right now. Someone came up with one of the best ideas of all time and got jack shit for it, right? And that's what happened to my grandad. So-

David McIntosh Jr 56:38 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 56:40 ... he worked for Mars, and they're like, "Looking... We're looking to expand our range of chocolates. Everyone, let's all have a sit and think about it." And he developed a system whereby you could put chocolate all the way around a ball without, without getting any side flat. 'Cause you can't just put it under a, under a chocolate curtain, could you? 'Cause the bottom wouldn't have any chocolate on it. So he's like, "If we can do this, we have this system, and then maybe we can make this thing." Someone called it the Maltesers. And, and there we go. That's how the Malteser came to be. And, um, they designed the machine, et cetera, that would... The Malteser machine, you know, through which all the Maltesers today are still made. And, um-

David McIntosh Jr 57:20 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 57:21 But p- people... I s- I tell this story, and people go either, one, "Bullshit," and two, "Oh, so that's where your family money came from." You don't get, like, any money for doing your job, right? You don't, you don't get... He doesn't get royalties on every Malteser-

David McIntosh Jr 57:36 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 57:36 ... produced in this country. That's not how it works. Um, so yeah. I... It's sort of a claim to fame except nobody knows who he is, so it isn't.

David McIntosh Jr 57:44 Growing up, I used to eat the chocolate and then the teaser, like the malt and the teaser. I, I, I don't know why-

Rufus Rice 57:50 Ah

David McIntosh Jr 57:50 ... I've framed it by syllable, but [laughs]

Rufus Rice 57:52 Do, do you-

David McIntosh Jr 57:53 I used to eat the chocolate and then-

Rufus Rice 57:53 I definitely think the, the chocolate is the teaser 'cause I think the middle bit is the malt. [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 57:58 [laughs] You heard it here first.

Rufus Rice 58:00 Um, yeah. I, I-

David McIntosh Jr 58:03 Do you have any inside scoop on that?

Rufus Rice 58:05 Call me a traditional man. I eat them whole as intended, I think. I think you're meant to have a whole one, one at a time. Sometimes I go in for the handful. You fill up your mouth like that. That's, that's a nice feeling.

David McIntosh Jr 58:16 [laughs] I think we should end on that, Rufus. This has been-

Rufus Rice 58:17 Lovely. Brilliant

David McIntosh Jr 58:18 ... a very different podcast. Uh, but if you're a fan of Rufus, you'll have clicked on this because you wanna hear about his origin story in which we covered-

Rufus Rice 58:26 It's, this-

David McIntosh Jr 58:26 ... pretty much nothing of it

Rufus Rice 58:27 ... this is one of the few chances w- few... I sometimes I get put in front of a general audience, and the feedback on that is always very Marmite.

David McIntosh Jr 58:36 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 58:37 Right? People either think it's hilarious or that I'm a wanker.

David McIntosh Jr 58:41 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 58:42 But I don't see how those are mutually exclusive. I think th- both of those could be true at the same time. So obvi- obviously on... our, our audience likes our stuff 'cause that's how it works. But when we get put out of here, there's either people who are really into it and people who really hate it. So I'm looking forward to see where the balance lies in the comments on this.

David McIntosh Jr 58:57 And if we wanna speak to the working class audience, that of which I am an advocate for, you have a Labour Party membership card.

Rufus Rice 59:06 Yeah. I, I got it, um... So I get routinely accused of being a Tory in public, as you might imagine. Never voted for the Tory party. Do wanna put that out there.

David McIntosh Jr 59:15 Just Reform.

Rufus Rice 59:16 Um, well, have I ever voted at all?

David McIntosh Jr 59:20 Are you a looter?

Rufus Rice 59:23 Yeah, in this country, yeah. I... Maybe. I can't remember, though. And, um-

David McIntosh Jr 59:30 It's beside the point

Rufus Rice 59:31 ... It's beside the point. And, uh, s- so when people would accuse me in public, come up to me in public and accuse me of being a Tory, I just wanted to have something that I could whip out and be like, "Well, here you go. Labour Party membership card." £32, comes in the post with your name on it, and I mean, what a, what an absolute Uno reverse thing that is. What are you supposed to do about that? You ca- you ca- can't say anything about that. If I'm... I'm more... I'm... Now I'm more left-wing than you are 'cause at least my, my name's on the sheet, and I, I got invited to the annual general meeting of the Labour Party. You can go if you want. I mean, I didn't.

David McIntosh Jr 1:00:07 [laughs] Of course.

Rufus Rice 1:00:08 But yeah. And I tried to cancel my membership as quickly. Once the card came, I d- I called my bank up and was like, "Don't let the Labour Party take-

David McIntosh Jr 1:00:16 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 1:00:16 ... £2.60 out of my account every month." That's how much it costs, £2.60 a month to be a member of the Labour Party.

David McIntosh Jr 1:00:23 And your name is Rufus Rice.

Rufus Rice 1:00:24 Yeah, yeah. That's legit. It's not like a stage name. I'm not like the Freddie Mercury of TikTok. [laughs]

David McIntosh Jr 1:00:31 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 1:00:33 Yeah, yeah.

David McIntosh Jr 1:00:34 You have been surrounded by HIV and AIDS.

Rufus Rice 1:00:36 I have, but I'm not sure you can get it from a massage. Otherwise, like Princess Diana would've gone there back in the day. So I think, I think you have to shag them, and I, I wasn't... I'm not into GILFs.

David McIntosh Jr 1:00:48 [laughs]

Rufus Rice 1:00:48 So [laughs] I wasn't happening there. Um, but yeah, my parents deliberately gave me that name 'cause they thought it's like memor- it's memorable. If you have an illicit re- If you have like a cool, weird, cool name, then it's b- it works out in your life 'cause people remember who you are, and I guess they were right.

David McIntosh Jr 1:01:06 Rufus Rice, everyone.

Rufus Rice 1:01:07 Thank you so much for having me, man. It's a very cool chat.