Why Did The World Stop Talking About Ukraine? Comedian Iryna Gil

1. 0:00 – 1:13

   Botox for Burping – the weirdest opening ever

   1. IGIryna Gil0:00

      Let me burp. No. [laughs]

   2. DJDavid McIntosh Jr0:02

      [laughs]

   3. IGIryna Gil0:04

      I can't. Uh, you know, I cannot burp on demand.

   4. DJDavid McIntosh Jr0:06

      No?

   5. IGIryna Gil0:07

      No. Mm-mm.

   6. DJDavid McIntosh Jr0:07

      You should learn. It's a great tactic.

   7. IGIryna Gil0:09

      It's not about learning. There is a condition that I discovered on TikTok [laughs]

   8. DJDavid McIntosh Jr0:14

      [laughs] Of course.

   9. IGIryna Gil0:16

      That-

   10. DJDavid McIntosh Jr0:16

       Dr. TikTok

   11. IGIryna Gil0:16

       ... there is, like... I, my whole life, I thought something was wrong with me. But there is a condition, and I'm gonna Google it for you and send you later.

   12. DJDavid McIntosh Jr0:25

       Mm.

   13. IGIryna Gil0:25

       So, there's, like-

   14. DJDavid McIntosh Jr0:26

       Is that a mental health condition? [laughs]

   15. IGIryna Gil0:30

       No, I'm just a Virgo.

   16. DJDavid McIntosh Jr0:31

       [laughs]

   17. IGIryna Gil0:31

       But, uh, no. That you, there's something with your muscles that you can't burp like that. And the treatment for that is you inject Botox in that muscle, and it help you to relax the esophagus. That's the word?

   18. DJDavid McIntosh Jr0:46

       Mm.

   19. IGIryna Gil0:46

       And then you can burp.

   20. DJDavid McIntosh Jr0:48

       That's the most boring use case of Botox ever.

   21. IGIryna Gil0:51

       But I think that's the only one that should exist [laughs]

   22. DJDavid McIntosh Jr0:53

       [laughs] That should exist?

   23. IGIryna Gil0:55

       Yeah. And I'm seriously considering, because I think I'm missing a lot by not be able to burp on demand.

   24. DJDavid McIntosh Jr1:03

       Iryna Gil, welcome to Origin Story. [laughs] One of my favorite comedians. We just started on such a comedic start. We're keeping that in.

2. 1:13 – 2:45

   Meet Iryna Gil

   1. DJDavid McIntosh Jr1:13

      Uh, I love you. I love your comed- uh, your, your comedy online. Comedy in person's even better. Being in the room when you're crushing a stage is nothing short of a pleasure, and I wanna get to know you and your story. Let's start in Ukraine. Take it back to the Origin Story.

   2. IGIryna Gil1:30

      Oh, shit. Uh-

   3. DJDavid McIntosh Jr1:31

      [laughs]

   4. IGIryna Gil1:32

      All right. So, do you want me to do, like, a, "I was born in..." Uh, yeah, I was born in... Well, technically, I was born in Soviet Union. And, uh, yeah, but I still consider that... I don't address that part of my, [laughs] of my birth certificate. Uh, I'm Ukrainian. My parents are Ukrainian, grandparents Ukrainian. Yeah, my, the whole family as I know it are Ukrainians. I grew up in a rural town on the w- northwest of Ukraine. And, uh, I spend a lot of time in, um, in villages with my grandparents, one and another, like my fathers and mothers, and love them very much. And I had a career in... I was basically a product manager, a project manager, all the jazz, for different, uh, IT companies in Ukraine. I also had, um... I wanted to start performing stand-up comedy, and I did in 2021.

3. 2:45 – 10:13

   Growing up in post-Soviet Ukraine

   1. IGIryna Gil2:46

      And I filmed... I was quite successful, and I filmed my first, um, like a full special, you call it, right? Uh, full special on YouTube. And I filmed it February 13th, 2022. And in 11 days, I woke up from bombs falling on my city. So yeah, a bit bitter about that. You know, like, I'm a bit petty, but yeah.

   2. DJDavid McIntosh Jr3:19

      A bit petty. That's funny.

   3. IGIryna Gil3:21

      Yeah. It's, uh-

   4. DJDavid McIntosh Jr3:22

      Tragically funny that you would use such a term that I know you don't mean to describe it. I know you are very passionate about where you come from and the situation that's going on there at the moment. Can you describe for me, given that you grew up in the Soviet Union, so the... I'm guessing, were... So when did it collapse? 1990?

   5. IGIryna Gil3:41

      In '91.

   6. DJDavid McIntosh Jr3:41

      '91. And when were you born?

   7. IGIryna Gil3:43

      I was born a couple years... Lady never tells. Just a couple years before, so I-

   8. DJDavid McIntosh Jr3:47

      Just a couple years before

   9. IGIryna Gil3:48

      ... so I had v- very, like, very, very early childhood I had.

   10. DJDavid McIntosh Jr3:52

       Mm.

   11. IGIryna Gil3:53

       But not a lot of... But the '90s, I can tell you what was happening-

   12. DJDavid McIntosh Jr3:56

       Yeah

   13. IGIryna Gil3:56

       ... in the '90s.

   14. DJDavid McIntosh Jr3:57

       How, how did things change and progress after the collapse of the Soviet Union as you grew up?

   15. IGIryna Gil4:03

       Oh, in so many ways. First, the biggest one is we ha- we finally had bananas. We didn't have those. Uh, yeah. And, but also, I'm joking, but Ukraine had to rebuild from s- from scratch, from a lot of ruined stuff. And f- and everything you see now in Ukraine is because Ukrainians fought for it. So n- not a lot of stuff was given. Not a lot of stuff was historically provided. So, um, Soviet Union was a system of upkeep and, and control. And then when it's collapsed, Ukraine was like, "All right, I'm finally, I finally have, uh, the ability to, you know, make my own decisions and build everything and, and finally have the sovereignty I was fighting for for hundreds of years." Because that's the, uh, the, the history of Ukraine is just, if you do the TLDR, is, like, we're trying to be independent. Leave us the fuck alone. It's, it's, it's the same for, I don't know, 5, 600 years, is the same, just fighting off different invaders and saying like, "Please, guys. We're trying very hard." So after 1991, there was this, um, process of figuring everything out, fighting old ways, and trying to set up a, a country. And yeah, without putting too much trust into the government because every... The main thing Soviet Union tell, teaches you is you develop, like, deep distrust of the government. That's why probably why Ukrainians are so into politics. They're very into, um, state processes. They're very on top of every, like, spending law. That's why we are so into protesting because we do not rely on government. We don't elect the same official twice 'cause we're like, "Nah, you fucked it up the first time. Next." We're like Ariana Grande, "Thank you, next."

   16. DJDavid McIntosh Jr6:15

       [laughs]

   17. IGIryna Gil6:15

       But without the thank you part.

   18. DJDavid McIntosh Jr6:17

       [laughs]

   19. IGIryna Gil6:18

       And, uh, yeah, it's... That's why we're so... There's this feature of, like, self-organising for Ukrainians because we don't wait for the government to provide us support in any way. So we organize first, and then in parallel, we're putting pressure on the government. [laughs] So yeah, and, uh, it's a magical, it's a very, uh, nice feature Ukrainians have, but it's also something they developed out of necessity.

   20. DJDavid McIntosh Jr6:47

       Are there still fragments of Soviet-style communism in Ukraine, or at least when you were growing up? Was there still a fraction of people or society that-

   21. IGIryna Gil6:54

       Yeah, we still had Communist Party till, like, early 2000s, I think, and it was still, uh, running in every election. And it just was basically targeting older people and nostalgia because, uh, you c- when it was like a referendum, would you like to stay in the, uh, Soviet Union or not, overwhelming amount of people said, "Nuh-uh. We wanna leave. We want our own independent country." So prob- it was mostly, like, Communist Party was m- mostly targeting, uh, older people and appealing to nostalgia. Appealing, like, oh, you know, you know, remember how everyone had access to, like, um, well, I don't know, free summer trips to the seashore that your factory provided you once a year? Yes, but also in the same factory, the director of that factory had three apartments, and you couldn't receive a single one, despite you were in the same queue-

   22. DJDavid McIntosh Jr7:54

       Mm

   23. IGIryna Gil7:54

       ... for governmental apartments. That's people that... That, that's the stuff people don't understand about communism. It still was corrupted as hell, and beside, like, oh, everyone gets a free apartment and, you know, uh, everyone gets free healthcare and free education, there is a huge asterisk to that. And in Ukraine in the '90s and early 2000s, there was still a lot of monuments for Soviet, uh, historical figures that were deemed as heroic or something. And, uh, because again, what people don't understand, Soviet Union, they had control over everything. It's just, it's a, it's a communist regime that had control over what you were watching, what movies were showed in the cinemas, uh, what news lines were in the newspapers today. That's why people didn't know about Chernobyl for weeks after it happened. Because the, the Soviet government just like, "We can't. It's May 1st," and the May 1st was a big holiday in Soviet Union. It's like, um, the day of workers, Workers' Day. And they were like, "Oh, there's a huge parad- parade is planning in Kyiv and in Moscow and big cities, so we can't cancel that, and we can't admit there's a huge amount of radiation in the air because that puts us in this, like, precedent of, oh, we, we didn't manage something." So they still ran the parade. Hundreds of thousands of people went outside despite huge amount of radiation in the air. And that's what people don't understand is that in Soviet Union, you could not have any alternative source of information, so the history was taught in a very specific way. Uh, if you will ask anyone from, um, especially Russians, when was the World War II, they will tell you it started in 1941. Every monument in Russia and ex-Soviet Union about World War II, it would be, like, 1941, 1945. It's something that we taught in sc- we were taught in school as well. But then there was, like, asterisk. But actually, it started in 1939 with Soviets actually aligning with Nazis and dividing Poland. But every monument

4. 10:13 – 14:18

   Starting stand-up in Kyiv

   1. IGIryna Gil10:13

      in Russia still has 1941 to 1945 because they have their own history, their own way of teaching history, and they, they have a control over it. That's why the population is like, "Oh, yeah, we were these specific people because the government told us we were, so why would we question that?" And Ukrainians were like, "Nah, that's bullshit. We remember that. That's not how it went."

   2. DJDavid McIntosh Jr10:40

      How did that bleed onto things such as family, ambition, work ethic?

   3. IGIryna Gil10:46

      Family, ambition, and work ethic? Ooh, yeah. Uh, I unfortunately have this thing from my mother and father, uh, that's called, um, um... I have this huge sense when something, like, how do you call it? Sense of injustice when you want to... You can't accept injustice. So my father has it, and my mom has it. Um, for example, my father was fired because he was, like, from his job. He was a construction worker. Because he openly argued with the boss for stuff that all of the other workers disagreed, but he was the one that talked. S- s- he spoke up.

   4. DJDavid McIntosh Jr11:31

      Yeah, yeah.

   5. IGIryna Gil11:31

      That's the correct way of saying it?

   6. DJDavid McIntosh Jr11:32

      Outspoken, almost.

   7. IGIryna Gil11:34

      Yeah, and he was fired, and my mom had exactly the same problem. She was like, when she was younger, she had this, like, strong sense of justice and, you know, and, and that unfortunately trickled down into me. [laughs]

   8. DJDavid McIntosh Jr11:49

      [laughs]

   9. IGIryna Gil11:49

      So that, that... I believe that's something, like, uh, Ukrainian feature. But the work ethic, oh, Ukrainians work hard, work a lot. We're overachievers. Horrible overachievers, especially in Kyiv. In Kyiv, there's this... The hustle culture in Kyiv- Uh, makes whatever happening in the UK seem like child's play because we are, like, very into titles. Uh, s- so a lot of people in Kyiv, especially younger generation, are being the CEO before 30, being, owning their own projects or, like, fashion brands and opening third-wave cafes, and they're just very entrepreneurial.

   10. DJDavid McIntosh Jr12:35

       Is it in the same way or the same, or the same reward systems that we have in the UK for... In the UK, it's because people wanna flash on Instagram and keep up with people in their street, and it's very, uh, reliant on external validation. But in a world that was previously governed by a Soviet regime-

   11. IGIryna Gil12:54

       Mm

   12. DJDavid McIntosh Jr12:54

       ... is it for sustenance and, um, resources and money and food on the table? Is, is that the reason people chase that hustle culture in Ukraine opposed to the status that it holds in the UK? Is it a status game, or is it a resource battle?

   13. IGIryna Gil13:11

       Uh, I don't think it's, um... It's a little bit of both. So for sure there is an element of, how do you call it? Peacock, peacockness.

   14. DJDavid McIntosh Jr13:18

       Mm.

   15. IGIryna Gil13:18

       So there's a little bit of, yeah, I have to show people that I'm doing well, especially in Instagram, so I will be still treated as a successful person that I channel. Uh, but it also was the understanding that there's no way to progress in your career in the natural, like, living in the s- um, working at the same place for 20 years, and you will definitely get to that type of compensation, for example. There's not, it's not a thing in Ukraine. So a lot of people saw it, and they were like, "Well, if I cannot get to this level of, um, resources, of, uh, life this linear way that worked maybe for my parents," but actually didn't work because there were not a lot of, uh, rich people in Soviet Union besides members of the Communist Party, ironically. Uh, but they thought, "Yes,

5. 14:18 – 21:04

   Ukraine’s hustle culture and distrust of government

   1. IGIryna Gil14:18

      I cannot get rich in linear way. I'm gonna make my own way of getting to that level." And that's why a lot of people are so... They're working a lot. There's, uh, this hustle car- hu- culture. There's also this immense pressure of Eastern Europe to, um, make sure that you look your best way. You, um, everything you have is of the best quality, and also this way of, um... We, we have a saying in Ukraine, "What will people say," right? So it's like you really have to make sure that you will present yourself in this, like, very, um, specific high-quality way. That's why Eastern European woman, you look at that, any beauty procedure for Eastern European woman, the best quality for it, if it's unnoticeable. It's like you're not putting effort into looking good, but you're still looking good.

   2. DJDavid McIntosh Jr15:12

      Mm.

   3. IGIryna Gil15:12

      It's like the best level of putting yourself together. It is f- I'm effortlessly this good, but in reality, it's a lot of effort and money.

   4. DJDavid McIntosh Jr15:21

      What does the Western societies not understand about communism? For me, growing up, what I learned about communism through school is there's no class system. Everyone gets access to accommodation, and it sounds like a economic regime. But I know from, uh, some of my Eastern European friends and h- hearing you speak on podcast that it's very much a political and ideological problem as much as it is a economic one.

   5. IGIryna Gil15:48

      Yeah. Uh, yeah, that's something I, I said before, and I'm gonna say it again. And people here view communism as, as an antidote to capitalism, as just something that they view that will fix strictly economic problems. But what they miss is that it is a political regime, and the, one of the side effects is the, uh, economic, government control of economics. What it also means is that, um, when you people say, like, "Oh, you get access to free housing," as I said before, there was still very much a class system in the Soviet Union. And again, people that benefited the most from that Soviet Union was the members of the Communist Party. [laughs] The higher your rank was in Communist Party, the better your life was. There's a specific thing, though. It's like if you will, uh, talk about Soviet Union, there was this, uh, thing, especially towards the end of the So- Soviet Union, but, um, there would be queues, queues to stores, hours and hours of queues, and you would go to the store, and there would be nothing there. Like, I don't know, maybe like, uh, frozen peas or something, and nothing else. So there's no way for you to get something. For example, my family didn't have a, a camera till, like, '90s. We don't have family photos because it was so expensive and so hard to get your hand on something like, like, um, like a photo camera. Video camera? What do you mean? Where did you get that from? There was no such thing. If you got a video camera, you probably got it sent to you from abroad. If you got it sent to you from abroad, who the hell do you have abroad? And what are they telling you? And most importantly, what are you telling them? And it was a whole thing. Like, jeans were, uh, contraband. Jeans were contraband. They were like, "Oh my God, you got jeans?"

   6. DJDavid McIntosh Jr17:49

      Fuck.

   7. IGIryna Gil17:50

      That's what people don't understand. They think that comm- they think communism is this, like, literally u- utopian idea of everyone just getting housing and, you know... You know that meme that goes on Twitter very hard? It's like, it's like a Twitter, a scr- screenshot from Tw- Twitter, the person saying like, "Uh, comrades, what are you doing w- after communism will win?" And there's a reply like, "Oh, I'm just, you know, I'm just, uh, will contribute to my, uh, to my community, will grow vegetables in my farm, and, you know, make s- do some classes." And the reply is, "Your farm?" Capital your because what do you mean your farm? There's nothing yours. Everything is ours. And that's true. You don't have anything private. Private property is not a thing, obviously. You have your governmental, like, apartment if you are a part of governmental apparatus. But that can be taken away if you will, um, tell... If you have views that are a little bit more progressive or radical than the, the party views are. And you're getting out of that apartment real quick, and you're not getting into a new apartment. You're getting into KGB, right? So, that's what, that what people get. Like, oh, you know, under Soviet Union, all of those homeless people are not... No homeless people on the streets. It's not because they got affordable housing. [laughs] It's not. I- Trust me, it's not, is what people don't understand, is like that's why Eastern Europe is so not accessible to people with disabilities because people with disabilities would be a bad look for Soviet Union [laughs] because it is, it was like, what do you mean? Our people are all this almost Aryan dream of whatever. So, there was no pandasus. There was no accessible things for, for wheelchair users. N- no. If you, if you unfortunately would became a, an amputee or a handicap, there was noth- there was no system of support for you in S- Soviet Union because you is n- you are not useful for your country in that way. So, sucks to be you, fella. But that's exactly what happened after World War II, where a lot of people, like soldiers, came back with no legs, no, no hands, and there was... And Soviet Union did not support them in any way. And on the first anniversary of, um, a celebration of the World War II end, which was m- May 9th, so it would be like a huge military parade, there was a lot of those amputees on, in Moscow, in a lot of big cities that would be like, uh, how you call? Sore thumb, right?

   8. DJDavid McIntosh Jr20:32

      Mm-hmm. Yeah, where something sticks out.

   9. IGIryna Gil20:34

      Sticks out. They, they would be the reminder that this is the price you have for this. So overnight, they all disappeared in Moscow. [laughs] And trust me, they didn't go on a farm and w- you know, to play on fields or what do you say about your dad dogs, right? It's, it's a very strict system that relied on very specific type of people to uphold it, and if you didn't match that description, the system would be

6. 21:04 – 28:54

   24 Feb 2022: missiles hit Kyiv

   1. IGIryna Gil21:04

      extremely violent to you. So, that's the Soviet Union I know, and that's what people don't probably miss from the view of the Soviet Union that they got from TikTok.

   2. DJDavid McIntosh Jr21:18

      The meme that you used to bring it to life around your farm opposed to our farm, does that shared sense of collectivism of assets, real-life tangible things, also transcend to opinions? Like for example, this is, your opinions are not your opinions, they're our opinions. Uh, therefore, the, the question I'm asking is, are you penalized if you have a progressive opinion that's outside of the collective S- Soviet, uh, viewpoint? Would you be punished for having something that's more progressive than their regime?

   3. IGIryna Gil21:56

      In Soviet Union, absolutely. That's why Soviet Union routinely targeted all the poets, all the writers, all of the, like, political activists. There was, um... Yeah, that was a routine thing that... And it happened almost in every Soviet republic. Uh, you just have to really... It's, the influence is right there. I mean, the system of Gulags, it was on for, for years and years after, I think... What, when is it di- disassembled? I think in the '80s. In the fucking '80s, there were still labor camps all over Russia, and there's still, like, colonies in Russia in like the far, far north and, uh, east. So, I don't think there... Right now, in Ukraine, you, we really try to fight that, but we have a very specific situation now that when the invasion is happening, you really have to understand that allowing... You can have any, any opinion you can, but you have to understand that there's a, like this existential threat, and you have to fight against it whether you're, like, on different political spectrums or something. Because it kills you no matter what political views or what type of opinions you had. So, as much as we have a lot of political opinions, that's why there's a saying that for three Ukra- for two Ukrainians, there are three Ottomans. Like, there's three, like, um... How do you, how would you translate Ottoman? Um, the, um, we call it Hetmans, which is like a military, uh, title. So, for, for, for two workers, there are three managers, for example, to translate it to your capitalist terms. Uh, but yeah, because we ha- we are so, we have so many opinions, it's hard for us to agree on anything for Ukrainians. But when the threat comes, we're like, "Yeah, we will fight about whatever we had before, and then, but now we have to do this, but then as soon as that threat will be handled, we'll go back to fighting between us." So, yeah. So, in Soviet Union, yeah, you would be definitely punished for, um, being, uh, for being, uh, for having views that would part from official course of the Communist Party.

   4. DJDavid McIntosh Jr24:19

      The, in today's world, pre-invasion Ukraine, uh, and, and still, it still very much has no post-invasion- Ukrainians are so beautifully expressive and creative and innovative. Uh, like I mean, you're a prime example of this, right, as a s- stand-up comic. How m- how dear do you hold that sense of creativity, given that 20, 30, 40 years before, it was stifled?

   5. IGIryna Gil24:47

      It just, uh... First of all, again, all of that was developed out of necessity, a lot of it. And I give you just an example. I was asked to go to BBC to give a commentary, right, about [clears throat] the week that was, uh, in the scandal in the Oval Office with Trump yelling at Zelensky and JD Vance yelling at Zelensky about suits. Uh, BBC asked me to give a, a commentary, so I went there. And they asked me all these questions, which I answered hundreds of times to different journalists, you know, like, "Oh, why don't you want peace?" Uh, [scoffs] and, uh, I remember we ha- we wrapped it up. I was just, you know, I tried to explain stuff, add more context. And I remember the, the, one of the, um, hosts was seeing us out of the studio, and he was like, "Oh, you're so incredibly articulated about this topic." And I was like, "Thanks. I had hundreds of infuriating conversations that made me to be as articulate as, as possible about stuff." Because basically, y- it's like every time you're having a conversation like that, you, the stakes for you is just having a small talks. The stake for me is try to give you as much context as possible so you will understand why this happened, so when you're talking to your friends, you will not repeat something you saw on Twitter and didn't check on it. So probably that's why the, um, the, that's why the articulation comes from. But what was the other part of the questions?

   6. DJDavid McIntosh Jr26:27

      Expression and creativity.

   7. IGIryna Gil26:29

      Expression. Ukrainians are very creative. They are extremely creative, entrepreneurial. And it just sucks that every generation of Ukrainians has to overcome some bullshit invader or some bullshit political oppressive system. Because imagine what Ukraine could be if we had, like, 50 years when no one would try to kill us. Imagine. There would be that meme of, like, you know, the, the town of the city of the future with flying cars and shit. But yeah, we're, we have, we are very creative, and we have a lot to show. It's just like [laughs] we're getting killed all the time, and you can't see the stuff that we're trying to put out. But yeah, I wish you would. I wish you'd take, like, uh, one hour of your daily scrolling and just Google about Ukrainian artists and fashion brands and, and technology, 'cause Ukrainians are incredibly technological nation. We had, like, electronic ID since 2020. I can, I have this app on my phone that I can pay taxes, open business, close business, get married, in an app. Every document in the app. Everything. I know that there are apps made by Ukrainians on your phones right now. I know it.

   8. DJDavid McIntosh Jr27:48

      I believe I've heard you say that Ukrainians love digitalization of everything.

   9. IGIryna Gil27:53

      Yeah. Yep. If, if it can be digi- digitalized, we'll probably do it. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, because, because again, um, it's like this chunk of young people that didn't have to ge- get the burden of previous system. So they were like, "What if we're gonna make it easier from the get-go?" And, and yeah, it takes a learning curve. Like, but now we can't think... We've got used to it so fast that we expect this. That's why it's such a big difference when coming abroad and seeing that other countries do not take digitalization to the same level that we do. So it's a bit painful at times, but...

   10. DJDavid McIntosh Jr28:38

       Take me back to 2022.

   11. IGIryna Gil28:40

       All right.

   12. DJDavid McIntosh Jr28:41

       You recorded your special.

   13. IGIryna Gil28:42

       I did.

   14. DJDavid McIntosh Jr28:44

       Your, your career's going amazing, both, uh, from your own career, but your comedy career is get- you're getting thousands of views online. And then in February 2022, the invasion

7. 28:54 – 32:10

   Leaving home under fire

   1. DJDavid McIntosh Jr28:54

      happens. What happens next for you personally? How does your life change?

   2. IGIryna Gil28:59

      Hmm, so you learn to, um-

   3. DJDavid McIntosh Jr29:04

      Could you set the scene? Like, what, what did your day look like when Russia invade- invaded?

   4. IGIryna Gil29:10

      Oh, absolutely, because it was a couple of weeks of this, like, um, tension in the air. The headlines were, mm, the headlines were troubling, like, oh, Russia lays masses forces on the border. And, and, but, you know, it's not the... You, you have to understand that it's not the first time Russia did that. Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. That was the first invasion. So, and for many years, it was, like, proper fighting happening on the east of Ukraine that was shelling and bombing and Russian troops in Ukraine. So it's not something that we were like, didn't happen before that was so out of, out of touch and out of character for Russia. But I think a lot of people, myself included, we were in disbelief that something like this can happen in 2022. Because what do you mean? We're, we're in the middle of Europe. We're the biggest country in Europe, and we can just be invaded. And what do you... How is that, how is that... W- this, is this the world we're living in? So a lot of us, myself included, unfortunately, stupidly, still believed in [laughs] international institutions, what I, which I don't anymore. And I remember the, the, that day- My friends and I, we were like, the tension was so palpable. We were like, "You know what? We're gonna go to a bar, just have a nice evening." So we went to a bar, and we had this, like, semi-serious, semi-jokish talks. And we're like, "Where's... What are we gonna do? We're gonna do..." And, and we were like, "Oh, this is so, like, in remarks, um, uh, you know, work." Uh, and I remember we had some drinks. We, we talked. I got home at, um, at about probably 1:00 AM, 1:30 AM after the bar. I went to sleep, and I woke up at 5:00 something from, like, loud noises from... Which I learned later were missile strikes. And I remember I, I, I woke up. I looked at my phone. I saw 168 messages, uh, on my group chat, and, uh, my heart sank. Yeah. Yeah. You just... I, even now, even talking about it, my... I have this, like, feeling of my body still going this. It just tenses up because, uh... Yeah. And I remember how I was completely lost. I did not understand what to do. I even remember I, I was like, "Do I go to work today?" Like, what do, what, what is the, what is the... What, what should I do? Because you don't know what to do. And I started, like... I went to a shower. I started eating my breakfast. I heard the explosion, like, the missile strikes again. I looked out of my balcony.

8. 32:10 – 39:47

   Zoom calls from bomb shelters and hiding behind two walls

   1. IGIryna Gil32:10

      I looked out, like, and people were just walking. None of them were running. I was like, "Well, I guess I'm going to work." But then, in half an hour they were like, "No, we don't think you should come to work." Uh, so I, I did my dishes [laughs] and I went to my... I texted my friend. She lived not that far from me. And I was like... 'Cause I lived alone. Uh, and I was like, "Hey, can I come to your place? 'Cause I don't feel, you know, uh... I don't wanna be alone now." So I went to her, and some other friends came. And we just started, we just started some- doing something that we currently do for three years now, even more, which is we started to read news. And, um, per- from time to time we would run to the underground parking because there was shelling and air raids. Yeah, so that was the, uh, that was the first day. You, I would e- even remember that I was a little bit numb because I didn't understand what was, what was happening. But we... It was the, the news, the news were coming every minute, and n- every each, like, next update would be even more horrifying than the previous one. And you would just... You wouldn't have... You couldn't look up. You couldn't not read. You couldn't stop reading that. So yeah. And then we slept in the parking, underground parking. And the, the after. I think I didn't, um... And then I went, uh, stayed for a little bit with my friend. And then I went a little bit later to get... I was trying to get to my parents, uh, because it, that was something that was very important to me. And yeah, the way we were getting out of, uh, uh, Kyiv, it was, um, it was, like, shellings left and right. Uh, yeah, the, the car was, like, shaking from, um, impact waves, you call it? Impact waves. Uh, yeah, so there's, there's, there's that.

   2. DJDavid McIntosh Jr34:24

      Can you give... First of all, thanks for sharing that. I can see it's distressing, and it really paints a f- unfortunate full-color picture for me as someone who has never faced a disruption or invasion or a war or an outbreak like this. And my body goes into a little bit of shock hearing it. I can't imagine what it feels like to be someone that witnessed it and was in the action of it all. And I just wanna say thank you for, for sharing that.

   3. IGIryna Gil34:55

      You're most welcome. It's, I don't think it's something special.

   4. DJDavid McIntosh Jr35:01

      How did the remainder of the days unfold after that?

   5. IGIryna Gil35:05

      Oh, it was days after. Uh, I got to my parents, and I took the socks off 'cause I were not able to take the socks off for a couple of days. That was amazing. I really, really liked that. The feeling of not having those socks on my feet, oof. I, for some reason, remember that. Yeah. But yeah, it mostly was, like, uh... You would... We started work. The com- You would actually... We would... What was the most bizarre thing is we would resume working. The company I was working for, we started working, I believe, on the third or fourth day of invasion. And that's some [laughs] ... That's telling something about Ukrainians. We were like, "All right, we had a couple of days, but those meetings, those KPIs, baby, you really have to meet them. Those OKRs."

   6. DJDavid McIntosh Jr35:59

      [laughs]

   7. IGIryna Gil36:00

      Yeah, it's what... That's... What also people don't understand is that despite the war, missiles and stuff, you still have to work. You still have to do stuff. You still have to, um, do the work commitments you had before. Probably the most surreal experience is me once giving a, a team presentation of a new feature we developed. And I was, like, giving a team, uh, presentation for my colleagues. Some of them were international. And mid that present- presentation, I hear a fighter jet above my house, which is a unmistakable sound. And I was like I'm so sorry. I really have to go to the, um, hall of the apartment because there is at least two walls, uh, from me and the outer world, which was a system we used for a while in Ukraine, and still do, which means you have to be at least behind two walls from... If there's gonna be an impact. So the first wall takes the impact, and the second wall takes the pieces, the, uh-

   8. DJDavid McIntosh Jr37:03

      Shrapnel

   9. IGIryna Gil37:04

      ... shrapnel and pieces of the building. So there was, like, a, a recommendation to hide before. And it had, like... I'm so sorry, colleagues. I'm gonna just have to move s- and then I will continue. And this is something that you have to do. Like, people complaining that they had to work during the pandemic, I raise you one [laughs] to have to work during the shelling. A lot of people in Ukraine work in shelters. They work in underground, uh, parkings, in sub- subway underground stations, because this is the reality. You ha- still have to work. You still have to, like, do what you have to do, and then on top of it you have, like, another thing, which is... And by the way, don't die. That would be s- that would be shitty, right? So yeah.

   10. DJDavid McIntosh Jr38:03

       Was that the moment that you realized you no longer felt safe in your own city and country that you're proud of?

   11. IGIryna Gil38:12

       Yeah, that's, that's probably the most... That's the thing that I got the angriest about, is that I walked into my apartment that I really loved. I rented it, but it was in city center of Kyiv. It was a very good neighborhood. It was a very good apartment. It has an incredible view. My bills paid. I was a self-sufficient woman. Like... And then I remember going into that apartment and understanding that I don't feel safe there, and it was a crushing feeling because you felt it for the first time in your life in, on this, like, physical way. And 'cause I lived on 11th floor, which is not ideal if missiles are raining on your city. You would like to stay lower. Which, uh, yeah. And I lived in 11th floor, and I lived in a neighborhood that was routinely targeted. And, um, every time it would g- get targeted, it would get closer and closer to the building that I was living in, and I was like, [inhales] "That God is sending me a sign that I should get out." Because literally every time it would be, like, 100 meters closer, 100 meters closer, and I would see from my window the... Yeah. So at some point it was like, I unfortunately can't stay here. Yeah. And I'm a, I'm a... And I would admit that I'm a big, big coward 'cause a lot of people stayed, and I couldn't. So yeah. I still blame myself for that.

   12. DJDavid McIntosh Jr39:45

       At what point did you have to leave Ukraine?

9. 39:47 – 43:52

   Losing safety, leaving Kyiv

   1. IGIryna Gil39:48

      I left in-

   2. DJDavid McIntosh Jr39:48

      Was it a decision or d- did, was it f- primarily survival?

   3. IGIryna Gil39:53

      I would say it was f- for the, for my neighborhood where I lived in Kyiv, yeah, it was, it was just unsafe to stay. But it was also because for many, many reasons, like, you couldn't stay there. You didn't have safety there. There was what other places you can go. People keep telling me there are, like, safe areas in Ukraine, which there are safer areas in Ukraine, but... You know the joke I do, that, uh, that Russians bomb schools, hospitals. They're very big on inclusivity. They are very inclusive in terms of areas they bomb. So there is, like, there isn't a region that ha- didn't have any impact at all. So that's why no matter where you would go, there would be, be still a very real threat. So that's why it was like... It's hard to explain to people because Ukraine is so huge. It's three times as big as the UK. Kyiv has a population of Scotland. It's 5 million city. And it's getting shelled every night. So imagine the whole population of Scotland being bombed every night, and no one, and everyone just accepted it. Like, it's just it is what it is. So yeah, and I, I left, and, uh, it wasn't easy. And, uh, yeah. It's hard to explain to people, probably.

   4. DJDavid McIntosh Jr41:24

      Did you bring anything that was deeply sentiment or symbolic that grounded you from Ukraine? Anything that really meant something to you that you represented in your day-to-day life when you moved?

   5. IGIryna Gil41:38

      Uh, oh, of course. I brought, I brought the embroidered shirt. I, I sometimes perform in it now. And, um, because we have the traditional clothing, which is embroidered shirts. It's a very blu- like, incredible tradition. It's different from region to region. It has a lot of meaning. They can be modern, traditional. I love it. You should Google it. It's vyshyvanka. I brought it, the embroidered shirt. And which is, which was something weird that I brought, I brought, uh, red leather Zara shoes that I filmed my special in. Never wore them since, but for some reason I brought them. I thought it was, like... I really, uh... It's hard to explain. I even took them from Kyiv when I was first escaping. That's also was weird. I was, like, taking nuts, seeds, like, a screwdriver, and red leather Zara shoes.

   6. DJDavid McIntosh Jr42:32

      Do you remember your last conversation you had in Ukraine before you left?

   7. IGIryna Gil42:36

      Oh, yeah. With my friends. Yeah. Horrible. Um, you just- He, yeah, you, you're promising to call, and they're very worried about you, and you have no idea where you're going, and you have no idea, um, what will happen. You just have ... Yeah, and that's it. And you have this understanding that you have to make sure that you will do well at a new place, so if anything will go down, you will be able even to help your, for example, your parents, your family. So yeah. But mostly it was, like, something I think every parent say, like, "Hey, we're worried about you. We love you. Call us as, as often as you can," and stuff. Yeah. And, uh, I believe that's what every parent would do, but that was very special circumstances.

   8. DJDavid McIntosh Jr43:45

      When you arrived in Scotland, were there support systems to

10. 43:52 – 48:45

    Starting over in Scotland

    1. DJDavid McIntosh Jr43:52

       allow you to make that transition?

    2. IGIryna Gil43:54

       Oh, s- absolutely. Please finish your, your question first. I was, I was ...

    3. DJDavid McIntosh Jr44:00

       No, no, that, that, that's, that's, that's the question.

    4. IGIryna Gil44:03

       I mean, I cannot describe how grateful I am for Scotland and Scottish people because they, uh, for some ... And I know that now why th- that why there was, like s- like, deeper, better understanding of U- Ukrainians and what they went through because Scotland was the only-- I believe it was the only country in the UK that had this super scheme for, uh, for, uh, family home, for Homes for Ukraine, which was the state could be the sponsor. So Ukrainians were living on, like, uh, cruise ship boats and hotels, right? I, uh, I had hosts that, uh, uh, hosted me, um, for, for, for some period of time. We were ... But there were social workers that we need to, we ha- we worked with, and there were, uh ... We, we were able to, we were given work permissions, which allowed us to start looking for work right away, which most Ukrainians did. Like, some of the people who didn't speak English, it would ha- it was harder to them. But a lot of Ukrainians started looking for work because Ukraine don't have a lot of social support systems. That's why people rely on themselves mostly and which what people don't understand about Scotland is you have it. I understand it's hard to accept, but you have it pretty good in terms of government setting support systems for you. Uh, and I completely understand that you might think that's not the case. I, I'm just saying it by comparison. So yeah, it, I believe Scotland put a lot of effort and, uh, to, mm, to accept Ukrainians, and I will be forever grateful for that. Yeah.

    5. DJDavid McIntosh Jr45:58

       What was your own impression of Scotland as a place? Did it feel like home or just a holding point until you can return back to your home?

    6. IGIryna Gil46:07

       Uh, yeah, you, you don't, you don't consider anything home for a while, and I believe that's true for anyone that, that moves, um, especially considering the circumstances. I couldn't ... When I came, I did not realize for how long I will be here. I didn't plan. I couldn't plan anything. I remember, uh, first time I was starting getting, like, open mics and gigs, and people would then contact me and say, like, for example, that was March 2023. They were like, "Are you willing to do the spot on Fringe?" It was August. And I was like, "I have no idea where I'm gonna be on, in August." So I would turn down all these opportunities and deals because I couldn't plan that long. We lost the ability to plan in Ukraine for a while now, and, and I'm only now still slowly getting it back but not really. And, uh, so I believe that Scotland, I call it home away from home now. But it, I, for, for a very long time, I couldn't, um, I couldn't understand what to do and where to go, and I believe that's, that's something that puts you in this weird limbo when you're like, "You're not there. You're not there. You're nowhere." Y- you lost the sense of safety at home, but you can't gain a sense of safety here because it's like a foreign place. So for, for a long time, I was grieving, and I was, um ... You know, I couldn't plan anything. So it was, it was weird for me when people are like, "Oh, you're safe now." And be like, "Yeah, but anything could change." I thought I was safe at home, and that was the biggest difference.

    7. DJDavid McIntosh Jr47:52

       When I was preparing for this podcast and just thinking about you and your story, that was one of the things that I was thinking about, this weird tension between gratitude for sanctuary but equal disproportionate amounts of grief for what you lost and trying to hold both of those things at the same time, the grief for what you lost and the gratitude for sanctuary at the same time.

    8. IGIryna Gil48:16

       You can feel those feelings at the same time. I'm extremely grateful for the sanctuary, and I believe everyone is, everyone that had to leave their homes in Ukraine is. But at the same time, you feel immense amount of grief. Um, that's something I said in the beginning, that for me, I, I, I grieved. There was a ... I, my grief, uh, was channeled in weird ways. For example, I was grieving my plants

11. 48:45 – 50:38

    Grieving a life left behind

    1. IGIryna Gil48:45

       from my apartment, that they all died, and it was very weird, but I would cry About the dead plants in my apartment. And it was something... And I did understand that I'm actually not grieving actual plants, but they were my kids. But I was grieving the lifestyle, I was grieving the home, I was grieving the safety, and I was grieving this place I really liked. So I felt the grieve- I grieved my comedy career that I thought was, that it, that would, was-

    2. DJDavid McIntosh Jr49:19

       It was popping

    3. IGIryna Gil49:20

       ... it was popping. Let's do the lingo from TikTok. It was popping. It was hot and coming.

    4. DJDavid McIntosh Jr49:26

       It, it really was. It really was hundreds of thousands of eyes on you and your comedy, and then you have to rebuild it brick by brick in your second language.

    5. IGIryna Gil49:34

       Ego death. Third.

    6. DJDavid McIntosh Jr49:36

       Third language.

    7. IGIryna Gil49:37

       Ego death. Instant.

    8. DJDavid McIntosh Jr49:38

       What was your proficiency of English when you moved here?

    9. IGIryna Gil49:41

       It was quite good, but I, but it was with American accent, [laughs] unfortunately.

    10. DJDavid McIntosh Jr49:46

        [laughs]

    11. IGIryna Gil49:46

        I am so sorry. Because when I was a student, I used to work in call centers at night, uh, selling health insurance to Americans.

    12. DJDavid McIntosh Jr49:56

        So when you re- when you, uh, returned to comedy here in Scotland, what were the biggest challenges, besides the ego death, of falling back in love with this prosperous thing that was popping off in Ukraine?

    13. IGIryna Gil50:13

        [sighs] The biggest challenge was how to make something as painful and dark into something that would appeal to people that never had this experience.

    14. DJDavid McIntosh Jr50:24

        Scottish men. [laughs]

    15. IGIryna Gil50:29

        Classic.

    16. DJDavid McIntosh Jr50:29

        It's one of our jokes. It's fine.

    17. IGIryna Gil50:31

        It's a lot of jokes about Scottish men. You should see it. Yeah. It, it was just like, how can I make

12. 50:38 – 53:55

    Comedy, trauma, and fighter jets

    1. IGIryna Gil50:38

       this constant pain in me and, you know, my desire to scream constantly, how can I make it into a setup and a punchline?

    2. DJDavid McIntosh Jr50:51

       Has it been a form of healing for you?

    3. IGIryna Gil50:55

       No. I believe it's a form of, this is my way of keep reminding people that this is still happening. I, I apologize, but it's not a form of healing. For me, telling jokes about a Russian invasion in Ukraine is not a form of healing. You know what would heal me? Fighter jets. That would heal me big times.

    4. DJDavid McIntosh Jr51:24

       Do you feel like you're finding your voice or sharing your voice on the matter, or just translating it?

    5. IGIryna Gil51:34

       Translating it. What, what, what do you think? What, what do you mean by that?

    6. DJDavid McIntosh Jr51:40

       I think there's a cohort of people who turn a blind eye to foreign politics, and are scared to look at it, uh, because it feels bigger and out of their control, and they don't understand it. They might don't have the education of the, the regime and the politics that sit behind it, and then the actual catastrophes that are going on there at the moment. So they kind of cast their eye away from it. But comedy is a really great bridge between people who are quite nihilistic and avoidant of the matter, and the matter itself. Like, one thing that I really admire is that I remember my sister was lecturing me on, um, some of the feminist, f- feminism ideologies, and I... She was giving me a bunch of writers and broadcasters to, to watch, and I had this weird disdain. I will admit, I had this weird disdain towards it at first. And then suddenly we would-

    7. IGIryna Gil52:40

       Your men

    8. DJDavid McIntosh Jr52:41

       ... uh, t- t- typically. Typically, right? And then we go to a comedy show where someone's talking the exact same things, but delivered via comedy, and then, uh, it, it, the penny dropped. It clicked. I- it was translated to me. It met me where I was, and then I had this new level of empathy, understanding, and education.

    9. IGIryna Gil52:57

       Yeah.

    10. DJDavid McIntosh Jr52:58

        So, like, do you feel like comedy is almost like a way of you translating-

    11. IGIryna Gil53:03

        Oh, yeah

    12. DJDavid McIntosh Jr53:03

        ... what's going on?

    13. IGIryna Gil53:04

        Yeah. Thanks for explaining that. Yeah, absolutely. Because as you said, most people, I don't think they're, like, afraid of, uh, foreign policy, but I believe they think that it's none of their business. It's something as a lesser priority to them, so that's something lesser on their priority of daily to-do tasks. So they, they, so they reserve the understanding of foreign policy to headlines. And, uh, headlines are very manipulative, and they sometimes tells a, tell a story that not there. So I believe sometimes I'm trying to translate what does that actually mean. So for example, I remember people... The most common thing is like, "Oh, but Ukraine is getting billions. Billions. Ukraine got billions." And you're like, "Do you know what that actually

13. 53:55 – 57:00

    What "billions in aid" actually means

    1. IGIryna Gil53:55

       means? Do you know h- what billions would actually mean?" Because Ukraine is not given hard cash. I know, shocker. But for example, uh, UK committed to, if I'm not mistaken, please check, that it's like 80- 18.3 billion aid to Ukraine. If that is put on a headline and someone is reading it, it's like, "What do you mean? That's a huge ton of money." But then when you actually read into it, it's like, oh, out of those 18 billions, 13 billions is a military aid, which means it's not a hard cash money. It's already made, like, armored we- vehicles, already made weaponry that is 30 years outdated that you cannot use in the UK. It would be way more expensive to utilize it in Ukraine, in UK. But you then transfer it to, to Ukraine, and so it's outdated. And it's, that outdated weapon is priced at 13 billions. Because I don't know if you know it, war is extremely expensive. That one tank costs a lot. So like two tanks, already a billion. So when the person reads in the headline, it's like UK gave Ukraine 18 billion, it sends shocker, like it, it's a shocker for any like regular person because that's a headline that's very manipulative. But then you will go, oh, it's 13 billion military aid worth at 13 billion. And then out of the rest of it is like 2.3 billion is a loan that will be paid back to Ukra- to UK from frozen Russian assets. Because if you know it, UK has a lot of Russian assets. Russian rich people really like UK. I, I don't know, maybe it's the colonizer thing. But it's, uh, you have a lot of frozen Russian assets in the UK, and the one of the loan that was given will be paid back to UK from frozen Russian assets. So again, people don't do the research. They rely on headlines. Headlines are very manipulative. They aim to get people to click or not even click, just to get this reaction. And then there's like Ukrainians that are like, [sighs] so again, if you're giving me a coffee worth 20 pounds, did you gave me 20 pounds, or did you give me a coffee that worth 20 pounds? So it's like very like repetitive explanation, because when people will keep reading those headlines, they will grow hostile for Ukrainians.

    2. DJDavid McIntosh Jr56:28

       Yeah.

    3. IGIryna Gil56:29

       And the hostility towards Ukrainians, that was already at a high level, but that because people will reserve to headlines, because people will reserve to someone they talk to, right, that, that read the headlines. You, you tend to form this view. And if there's no one that will give you an explanation to that or will give you actual context, especially Ukrainian, you will solidify that view of Ukraine, and you will then

14. 57:00 – 1:01:48

    The real cost of headlines and public perception

    1. IGIryna Gil57:00

       trans- broadcast it. Right? So one of the ways I'm doing it, and I'm like explaining stuff, that, "No, it's not like that. It actually like this. And by the way, we're still getting bombed every day. You're just not seeing in the news anymore." Which is also true.

    2. DJDavid McIntosh Jr57:17

       This manipulation of perception over acceptance of reality, for example, valuing aid at a price point that doesn't reflect the reality of how we're helping, I-- it makes me think of this, and I'm saying this for the first time aloud, and it may not be right, so do excuse me if I'm getting this wrong. But it's one of my perceptions of why working class, lower socioeconomic people don't accept or care about foreign policy, is that they see these headlines like, okay, three, 13, 18 hundreds of billions of other, uh, uh, billions of pounds or dollars of aid has been, uh, sent to Ukraine. Therefore, I don't have an individualistic responsibility because these other organizations and bodies are supporting. So I don't have a role to play because my £5 a month to a independent charity is not going to, to help. And I, I think it's the same mindset towards climate change for working-class people, actually. I've had this thought before that, um, working class, lower socioeconomic people are trying to pay their bills, buy their food, keep themselves clothed and warm, and then when they see headlines that are like 13.4 billion has been transferred in aid, they don't think that they have a part to play. Um, perhaps they feel like they need their own needs met, own needs met before they can then care about this, uh, foreign affair.

    3. IGIryna Gil58:47

       I think it's very human nature to make sure your own needs met, right, before caring for someone else. And I think it's something that also very interesting perspective. I, I don't think I've, I thought about it like that. But, um, luckily, I know hundreds of examples of regular people in the UK stepping up and helping. And they did not think that, oh, the government did the part, so they therefore they don't have to move, lift a finger. Thousands of people in the UK did. Thousands of people took a time of their day to read an article, contact someone from Ukraine, and, you know, ask them how they were doing, opened their homes to Ukrainians, which was [sighs] incredible. I also think in UK, you have this big culture of charity. You have a lot of charity causes, and it is a very big part of your society. You have a lot of charity, um, charity like events. Charity like, charities sends, send, uh, mail to you regularly, which is-- was something very weird. I never had it before. And so I think many of you already understand how a small donation can make a big difference, right? And I think, uh-

    4. DJDavid McIntosh Jr1:00:12

       And charity doesn't have to be financial. It can be time. It can be advocacy.

    5. IGIryna Gil1:00:16

       Oh, absolutely. If I could ask people, if, if you don't have any like money to make a donation, please don't. We don't want to give y- give something that, you know, you need to put food on the table. Absolutely not. But if you can look into what is happening, search for news about Ukraine, and then talk to people in your life about Ukraine, about like, "Have you heard?" Like two days ago, Russia launched one of the biggest attacks on Ukraine. Over 500 missiles and drones overnight. It's the biggest in modern history. Should make headlines. Didn't. So if you like can talk to people, like, "Have you heard that what is happening?" And then if the person will starts spewing stuff like that of s- of s- something they heard and didn't l- actually looked into. Like, "Oh, yeah, but we're sending them m- billions." Like, did you, do you, like, do you know what are we actually sending them? What is, like, what is the military aid that we are entailing them? Like, what is actually happening? That would mean the world to me without any monetary contribution.

    6. DJDavid McIntosh Jr1:01:27

       Do you feel that Ukraine has now slipped the hearts and minds of the public because of other conflicts that are ongoing at the moment? Do you... How do you feel that other conflicts are dominating public attention whilst yours is going on but now a bit more silently?

    7. IGIryna Gil1:01:46

       I had this joke in my routine,

15. 1:01:48 – 1:04:32

    Has Ukraine faded from public attention?

    1. IGIryna Gil1:01:48

       and I'm sorry for, like, try to drop my jokes into this podcast, is that, uh-

    2. DJDavid McIntosh Jr1:01:54

       Well c- well, comedy is a reflection of society and reality.

    3. IGIryna Gil1:01:58

       Yeah.

    4. DJDavid McIntosh Jr1:01:59

       W- we can have a joke in the comedy world that the world's shit out there, so we can laugh about it in here.

    5. IGIryna Gil1:02:04

       Yeah.

    6. DJDavid McIntosh Jr1:02:04

       So I, I think it's a metaphor for life.

    7. IGIryna Gil1:02:06

       Uh, yeah. All, all right. I'll take that. So I have a joke that, like, people asking me if I'm angry that nobody's talking about Ukraine anymore and talking about these other shiny conflicts. And I say like, "No, I'm not angry anymore because I was angry the first time the world shifted their attention from Ukraine, and that happened during Johnny Depp's divorce." Because that's literally what happened. So does this make me sad that the public attention is flaky? Absolutely. Have I already accepted it? Yes, but that's why I'm also keep screaming about it, and I keep making people uncomfortable with, with stuff that I still talk about my home every day. But I don't think it... that could be in any other way be- of course you're gonna talk about your home. Of course you're gonna, you're gonna keep reminding people that what is happening. Of course you're gonna do whatever it takes. It's your home. Everyone loves their home, and I understand that Scottish people have this, you know, they have this, like, heightened sense of independence, individuality. Th- they're, they, you know, they, they have strong understanding what they want to do and where they wanna go, and I believe that that's why they understand Ukrainians that much, but...

    8. DJDavid McIntosh Jr1:03:29

       I, I also think it's a mindset thing of care, peace, and consideration isn't a zero-sum game or a finite resource. So I, I f- so, so what I'm saying is that if you care for what's going on in the Middle East, it doesn't mean you shouldn't care about what's going o- going on elsewhere in the world.

    9. IGIryna Gil1:03:44

       I believe you, that you... I believe that... I applaud everyone that, again, that had the privilege with the distance but decided to advocate for a cause far away from them that is seemingly not affecting them on daily basis. If you had this ability just to lay on the couch and do nothing, and you decided to talk about this cause, props to you. What I don't like, if then, if people that advocate for any cause try to do, as I call it, the Genocide Olympics, which is they start bringing this other thing to heighten how horrible this thing is by diminishing the other thing without actually knowing what's happening on the other thing. And I see it all the time. It's like, "Oh, if Russia did this," insert war crime, "we would be fuming by now."

16. 1:04:32 – 1:05:38

    Genocide Olympics and comparative advocacy

    1. IGIryna Gil1:04:32

       But the joke is Russia already did this. If you're putting anything like, "Oh, if Russia killed that many people," it did. "If Russia bombed the hospital," it did. You didn't care. You didn't care. There was no outrage. There were so hospitals razed. There were so many medical workers killed. There were so many people starved, tortured, raped, and you didn't care. But you need to have, make this talking point to bring attention to some double standards, and only in that case you remembered about my home, and you brought it as a, as a weird comparison. And this is something that rubs me the wrong way, and I will never stop talking about it, that you can advocate for your cause without diminishing the others. If you can't do that, maybe take a step back and learn how to advocate for your cause without erasing other people's suffering. It is just... I wish more people did that, and, uh, I believe that would make their effort more effective.

    2. DJDavid McIntosh Jr1:05:32

       I wanna end on this. What does peace look like for you personally and politically?

17. 1:05:38 – 1:06:47

    What peace really looks like

    1. IGIryna Gil1:05:39

       Very easy. Um, peace for me is not a single Russian soldier in Ukraine. Um, Ukraine's recognized international borders restored circa 1991. I don't, I don't accept anything else. No one will. There is a NATO status in Ukraine, and there is a shit-ton of weapon in Ukraine, so if any Russian would even look our way, there's gonna be a missile pointing to him because, like, nah. So for me, peace looks... Peace through strength, right? That's, that's the thing. People that claim they're anti-war, that they're pacifists, they're incredibly privileged. They've never heard a missile strike. And, um, let me tell you, if you hear it at least one time, you quickly realized why do you need a weapon to protect yourself, and why you, why the good guys should be armed better against the bad guys. So peace for me is a shit-ton of weapon in Ukraine that will guarantee that no one else will try to do the thing that Russia did for the last 300 years.

    2. DJDavid McIntosh Jr1:06:42

       Iryna Gil, thank you for your insights, your advocacy, but most importantly, your story.

18. 1:06:47 – 1:06:48

    Closing thanks

    1. IGIryna Gil1:06:47

       Thank you so much, David.

Episode duration: 1:06:48