Skip to content
Peter Attia MDPeter Attia MD

190 - How to heal from trauma and break the cycle of shame

View show notes for this episode: https://bit.ly/3Gc5cK8 Paul Conti, a returning guest on The Drive, is a practicing psychiatrist and recent author of Trauma: The Invisible Epidemic: How Trauma Works and How We Can Heal From It, in which he offers valuable insights on healing from trauma. In this episode, Paul explains how his personal experience with trauma and his many years seeing patients have shaped his understanding of trauma’s impact on the brain, its common patterns and manifestations, and how often people don't recognize the implications of trauma in their own life. He discusses major challenges in recognizing trauma, including the lack of biomarkers in psychiatry and psychology, as well as the misguidance of the mental health system in targeting symptoms as opposed to root problems. He talks about shame as the biggest impediment to healing from trauma and offers solutions to how, as a society, we can start to change the stigma of mental health and allow more people to receive help. Finally, he concludes with a discussion about the potential role of psychedelics like psilocybin and MDMA in treating trauma. We discuss: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:00:10 - Paul’s background and unique path to psychiatry 00:03:29 - A personal tragedy that shaped Paul’s understanding of trauma and resulting feelings of shame and guilt 00:19:42 - The current state of psychiatry training and need for improvement 00:28:27 - The over-reliance on outdated metrics and lack of attention to past trauma as an impediment to patient care 00:34:48 - Defining trauma: various types, heterogeneity, and effects on the brain 00:47:55 - Importance of finding the roots of trauma and understanding the “why” 00:56:49 - The major challenge of recognizing trauma in patients 01:08:13 - How shame and guilt are barriers to treatment and healing 01:14:18 - How treating trauma compares to treating an abscess—a powerful analogy 01:18:08 - How evolutionary survival instincts create problems in modern society 01:22:00 - First step toward healing: overcoming the fear of talking about past trauma 01:28:35 - Shame: the biggest impediment to healing 01:37:57 - The antidote to shame and the need for discourse and understanding 01:45:30 - The emotional health component of healthspan 01:57:06 - How to reframe the conversation about mental health for a better future 02:04:08 - The growing impact of trauma on our society and the need for compassion 02:10:06 - Society’s antiquated way of treating manifestations of trauma rather than root issues 02:17:29 - Potential role of psychedelics like psilocybin and MDMA in treating trauma 02:22:50 - Parting thoughts and resources for getting help -------- About: The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 35 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more. Peter is a physician focusing on the applied science of longevity. His practice deals extensively with nutritional interventions, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, emotional and mental health, and pharmacology to increase lifespan (delay the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life). Learn more: https://bit.ly/330SYFO Subscribe to receive exclusive subscriber-only content: https://bit.ly/3tbMQ8y Sign up to receive Peter's email newsletter: https://bit.ly/33cKjjk Connect with Peter on: Facebook: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDFB Twitter: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDTW Instagram: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDIG Subscribe to The Drive: Apple Podcast: http://bit.ly/TheDriveApplePodcasts Overcast: http://bit.ly/TheDriveOvercast Spotify: http://bit.ly/TheDriveSpotify Google Podcasts: http://bit.ly/TheDriveGoogle

Peter AttiahostPaul Contiguest
Jan 10, 20222h 27mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Paul Conti on Trauma, Shame, and Psychiatry's Missing Root Causes

  1. Paul Conti traces his view of trauma to his brother's suicide when he was 24, describing how shame and a lack of words for the loss silenced his family and shaped his path into psychiatry.
  2. Conti criticizes modern psychiatry and the DSM for reducing people to diagnostic numbers, short appointments and medications, which he says treats symptoms (polishing the hood) while ignoring trauma at the root.
  3. He defines trauma broadly as anything that pushes coping skills past their limits, whether acute, chronic or vicarious, and says it changes brain function and gene expression, so people often underreport it out of shame or comparison with others.
  4. Using Attia's abscess analogy, both men describe trauma as a walled-off wound where shame is the main barrier to treatment, understanding is the antidote, and healing takes time, a trusting relationship and psychoeducation.
  5. Conti links unaddressed trauma to wider social problems like overdose deaths and discourse, calls for education from early schooling through professionals, and sees psychedelics such as psilocybin and MDMA as promising additions to treatment.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Shame is a reflexive response to trauma that drives people inward.

Conti says that after his brother's death his family lacked words for what they felt, and shame kept each of them silent, which in his view contributed to his mother's depression and isolation.

Psychiatry's focus on symptoms and diagnostic codes misses root causes.

Conti argues the DSM is descriptive rather than causal and fits 15-minute appointments, so patients with depression, anxiety or addiction go through repeated treatments without anyone taking a trauma history.

Trauma is defined by its effect on the person, not by the event.

Conti says trauma pushes coping skills past their limits and changes brain function, and can be acute, chronic (like neglect) or vicarious (like intense news exposure), with outcomes varying by genetics, history and prior hits.

People often fail to recognize or report their own trauma.

Conti says patients skip the trauma box on intake forms because they think it was too long ago or not as bad as what others endured, and trauma itself alters the instrument used to judge it.

Understanding is the antidote to shame, but healing takes time.

Conti compares shame to a monster that is really a clothes tree once the light is on, and says negative thoughts fade gradually, so people should be told that old thoughts may return without meaning anything.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

The antidote to shame is understanding, right?

— Paul Conti

The purpose is to shift towards something that's true. Oh, and by the way, that true thing feels better.

— Paul Conti

Trauma is anything that pushes our coping skills to and beyond their limits, and then results in a set of feelings inside that could be acute terror or it could be, for example, a, a chronic sense of denigration, right?

— Paul Conti

Because if we're blaming ourselves, we can't grieve.

— Paul Conti

We should be appalled by that number. Appalled enough to do something about it.

— Paul Conti

Conti's brother's suicide and family shameLimits of the DSM and symptom-based psychiatryDefining acute, chronic and vicarious traumaTrauma as the root of addiction and eating disordersThe abscess analogy for walled-off traumaShame as the main barrier and understanding as its antidoteEmotional healthspan and screening for trauma

High quality AI-generated summary created from speaker-labeled transcript.

Get more out of YouTube videos.

Read along on your phone, search it beside the video, or ask your favorite AI app what was said.

iOSAndroidClaudeChromeChatGPTComing soon