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Peter Attia MDPeter Attia MD

283 ‒ Gut health & the microbiome: improving and maintaining the microbiome, probiotics, & more

View show notes here: https://bit.ly/3GJjQKz Become a member to receive exclusive content: https://peterattiamd.com/subscribe/ Sign up to receive Peter's email newsletter: https://peterattiamd.com/newsletter/ Colleen Cutcliffe is an expert in molecular biology and co-founder of Pendulum Therapeutics, a company working to develop treatments for a variety of diseases by targeting the microbiome. In this episode, Colleen delves into the complexity of the microbiome, how it is tested, and how it changes over time. She explores how probiotics, prebiotics, and postbiotics affect the gut and makes a compelling case that well-developed products have the potential not only to enhance gut health but also to positively influence overall metabolic well-being. Colleen emphasizes the significance of a high-fiber diet in sustaining a thriving gut microbiome, shares insights on minimizing microbiome damage during antibiotic use, provides tips for fostering and preserving a healthy gut, and much more. We discuss: 0:00:00 - Intro 0:00:34 - Colleen’s background and current focus 0:03:08 - The basics of the microbiome 0:12:37 - The study of the human microbiome 0:17:42 - Categories of bacteria, and the implications on health of the rapid evolution of bacteria 0:27:51 - Methods for measuring and understanding the microbiome, and key indicators of microbiome health 0:39:52 - The important role of fiber for promoting gut health through the production of butyrate 0:47:21 - The case for manipulating gut bacteria via fecal microbiota transplant (FMT) 0:53:25 - Dynamics of the microbiome: the gut-brain connection and how antibiotics, nutrition, stress, and more impact the microbiome's diversity and function 0:59:16 - Factors that influence the vaginal microbiom 1:03:46 - The effect of gut microbes on obesity and challenges with fecal transplants in people 1:06:25 - Beneficial strains of gut bacteria and strains commonly found in probiotics 1:16:35 - The difference between a probiotic and prebiotic, and how CFUs are a measure of the “active ingredient” 1:21:47 - Considerations about how probiotic strains are produced, and more on the meaning of CFU 1:31:12 - Mitigating the effect of antibiotics on the microbiome 1:39:58 - What do we know about the effect of artificial sweeteners on the gut microbiome? 1:47:02 - Why Akkermansia is a keystone strain with implications for metabolic health and an individual’s response to dietary interventions 1:58:14 - The essential steps necessary to develop a robust probiotic for optimal health support 2:01:45 - How Akkermansia helps control blood glucose, and potential implications of Akkermansia in weight loss, diabetes management, and more 2:22:46 - Pendulum Therapeutics’ commitment to rigorous product develop 2:29:54 - Details about the probiotic “Glucose Control” and other probiotics developed by Pendulum Therapeutics 2:38:43 - Further studies of Akkermansia that have been proposed or are underway -------- About: The Peter Attia Drive is a deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing longevity, and all that goes into that from physical to cognitive to emotional health. With over 70 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including exercise, nutritional biochemistry, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more. Peter Attia is the founder of Early Medical, a medical practice that applies the principles of Medicine 3.0 to patients with the goal of lengthening their lifespan and simultaneously improving their healthspan. Learn more: https://peterattiamd.com Connect with Peter on: Facebook: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDFB Twitter: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDTW Instagram: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDIG Subscribe to The Drive: Apple Podcast: http://bit.ly/TheDriveApplePodcasts Overcast: http://bit.ly/TheDriveOvercast Spotify: http://bit.ly/TheDriveSpotify Google Podcasts: http://bit.ly/TheDriveGoogle Disclaimer: This podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services, including the giving of medical advice. No doctor-patient relationship is formed. The use of this information and the materials linked to this podcast is at the user's own risk. The content on this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical condition they have, and they should seek the assistance of their healthcare professionals for any such conditions. I take conflicts of interest very seriously. For all of my disclosures and the companies I invest in or advise, please visit my website where I keep an up-to-date and active list of such companies. For a full list of our registered and unregistered trademarks, trade names, and service marks, please review our Terms of Use: https://peterattiamd.com/terms-of-use/

Colleen CutcliffeguestPeter Attiahost
Dec 18, 20232h 48mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Colleen Cutcliffe on Microbiome Science, Akkermansia, and Rigorous Probiotic Development

  1. Cutcliffe explains that the microbiome is a highly mutable, fast-evolving ecosystem shaped mainly by diet and antibiotics, and that strain-level and function-level differences between people make it hard to study.
  2. Fecal microbiota transplants cure C. diff infections at about 99% versus roughly 70% for antibiotics, which she says shows a microbiome intervention can change physiology but is a messy, non-reproducible drug.
  3. Most commercial probiotics rely on easy-to-grow Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium strains and on CFU counts, which she argues are a weak metric compared with flow cytometry that distinguishes live, dead and in-between cells.
  4. Akkermansia, a strict anaerobe that is depleted in obesity and type 2 diabetes, is described as stimulating GLP-1 release through a surface protein, the secreted protein P9, and propionate that other strains convert to butyrate.
  5. Pendulum's five-strain formulation lowered A1C by 0.6 versus placebo in a 76-person, 90-day trial, and the company is now funding about a dozen third-party studies while selling through a consumer model.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

The microbiome is mutable, which makes it a promising therapeutic target.

Cutcliffe says diet, travel, antibiotics and stress can change it quickly, unlike human genetics, and this is what drew her to the field.

Calling bacteria good or bad oversimplifies things.

She argues context and ecosystem determine a microbe's effect, noting that most people carry C. diff without harm until antibiotics remove its competition.

Fiber is the key food for the gut and the production of butyrate.

Gut microbes ferment fibers we cannot digest into short-chain fatty acids such as butyrate, which fuels colon cells and triggers GLP-1 release; she says typical intake is far below the 20 to 30 grams recommended.

CFU counts say little about what is in a probiotic.

Cutcliffe says most cells in many probiotics are dead, CFU only counts those able to form colonies, and labels may not reflect the count at the end of shelf life.

Akkermansia may influence metabolic health through several GLP-1 pathways.

She describes AMUC1100, P9 and propionate-derived butyrate all stimulating L cells, and says the effect would be a physiologic, meal-linked rise rather than the strong GLP-1 exposure from injectable drugs.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

They're optimizing for their environment, and so again, if you, uh, sort of take diet as the primary thing that can modify your microbiome, it's the primary thing that can modify your microbiome 'cause that's their food. They're living in your gut. They're waiting for you to feed them.

— Colleen Cutcliffe

When you take an antibiotic, that's essentially almost like a nuclear bomb to your microbiome. It kills everything in there.

— Colleen Cutcliffe

Some brilliant marketer decided that that was gonna become the metric, the name of the game for probiotics.

— Colleen Cutcliffe

In almost every supplement, every probiotic out there, the majority of what's in that pill is dead probiotic, and you don't see any of that when you use this technology.

— Colleen Cutcliffe

Really in the microbiome, the person matters. And so crossover designs are gonna give you way more information about what's doing what in that person.

— Colleen Cutcliffe

Microbiome basics and diversity over lifeFiber, butyrate and short-chain fatty acidsFecal microbiota transplants and C. diffProbiotics, prebiotics, postbiotics and CFU limitsAntibiotic effects and recoveryGut-brain connection and cravingsAkkermansia, GLP-1 and glucose control

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