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409 ‒ Inside modern drug development: the science, economics, and regulatory hurdles

Lloyd B. Klickstein is a physician-scientist who has spent more than 20 years at the intersection of drug discovery, healthy aging, and preventive medicine. Drawing on his experience in academic medicine, translational research, and biotechnology, Lloyd walks through the full arc of modern drug development. He explains how scientists identify an unmet medical need and decide which diseases and therapeutic targets are worth pursuing. From there, he takes us through the process of engineering a drug, testing it in animals, and navigating clinical trials and regulatory approval. Using bimagrumab as a case study, Lloyd explains the rationale for targeting myostatin and activin signaling to increase muscle mass and strength and describes how the antibody was engineered and screened. He then walks through what was learned from early clinical trials. Unexpected effects on fat mass and type 2 diabetes helped reshape bimagrumab’s development as a potential treatment for obesity, including its use in combination with semaglutide. Along the way, Peter and Lloyd explore the differences among drug modalities, including biologics and small-molecule therapeutics. They discuss the roles of patents and capital allocation in drug development, along with the requirements for IND submission and GMP manufacturing. They also examine why developing a new drug takes so long and costs so much, and why identifying failures early is critical. 0:00:00 - Intro 0:00:11 - Lloyd’s path from academic medicine to translational drug development 0:09:21 - Drug modalities, patents, and the economics of innovation 0:22:08 - Choosing sarcopenia as a target for drug development, and confronting the problem of measuring falls 0:36:54 - The rationale for bimagrumab: improving muscle mass and strength by targeting myostatin and activin signaling (and why follistatin failed) 0:44:47 - Engineering and screening the bimagrumab antibody, and the cost of developing a new drug 0:56:07 - From candidate antibodies to animal proof of concept (impressive muscle hypertrophy) 1:05:16 - Toxicology, capital allocation, and the path to an IND 1:18:04 - IND requirements, GMP manufacturing, and gray market peptides 1:24:54 - First in-human study design, patient selection, and protection of healthy volunteers 1:39:00 - Phase 1 dosing, pharmacodynamics, and global trial strategy 1:50:05 - Phase 2 lessons on muscle mass, function, and nutrition 1:57:40 - Bimagrumab’s effects on fat mass and type 2 diabetes 2:07:30 - The BELIEVE trial of bimagrumab plus semaglutide 2:20:40 - Selective mTORC1 inhibition and the challenge of testing geroprotection 2:25:13 - A new pharmacologic approach to cancer prevention View show notes here: https://peterattiamd.com/lloydklickstein2/ Become a member to receive exclusive content: https://peterattiamd.com/subscribe/ Sign up to receive Peter's email newsletter: https://peterattiamd.com/newsletter/ -------- About: The Peter Attia Drive is a deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing longevity, and all that goes into that from physical to cognitive to emotional health. With over 90 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including exercise, nutritional biochemistry, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more. Peter Attia is the founder of Early Medical, a medical practice that applies the principles of Medicine 3.0 to patients with the goal of lengthening their lifespan and simultaneously improving their healthspan. Learn more: https://peterattiamd.com Connect with Peter on: Facebook: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDFB Twitter: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDTW Instagram: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDIG Subscribe to The Drive: Apple Podcast: http://bit.ly/TheDriveApplePodcasts Overcast: http://bit.ly/TheDriveOvercast Spotify: http://bit.ly/TheDriveSpotify Google Podcasts: http://bit.ly/TheDriveGoogle Disclaimer: This podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services, including the giving of medical advice. No doctor-patient relationship is formed. The use of this information and the materials linked to this podcast is at the user's own risk. The content on this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical condition they have, and they should seek the assistance of their healthcare professionals for any such conditions. I take conflicts of interest very seriously. For all of my disclosures and the companies I invest in or advise, please visit my website where I keep an up-to-date and active list of such companies. For a full list of our registered and unregistered trademarks, trade names, and service marks, please review our Terms of Use: https://peterattiamd.com/terms-of-use/

Peter AttiahostLloyd B. Klicksteinguest
Sep 28, 20262h 35mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

How drugs are built: bimagrumab, trials, patents, and prevention frontiers

  1. Lloyd Klickstein describes a patient-need-driven approach to translational medicine, emphasizing that the hardest innovations involve creating new indications, endpoints, and regulatory pathways rather than incremental “me-too” improvements.
  2. The episode breaks down drug modalities (small molecules, biologics, gene/cell therapies, devices) and explains how binding affinity, developability, and patient practicality steer the choice of therapeutic format.
  3. A detailed case study follows bimagrumab from target rationale through antibody screening, animal proof-of-concept, IND-enabling work, GMP manufacturing, and first-in-human study design, highlighting cost, risk management, and why late-stage failures are so damaging.
  4. Bimagrumab increased human muscle mass modestly and inconsistently improved function, but unexpectedly reduced fat mass and improved glycemic control, leading to renewed interest in obesity/metabolic disease when paired with incretin therapies.
  5. The BELIEVE trial’s combination approach delivered very large fat loss but surfaced an LDL increase, and Klickstein closes by arguing the next frontier is true medical prevention, including a new pharmacologic strategy for cancer prevention inspired by drugs that inadvertently increase cancer risk.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Drug discovery often starts with unmet clinical need—not a molecule.

Klickstein describes a patient-need-first workflow: enumerate unmet indications, prioritize those with large societal impact, then build scientific, clinical, and regulatory paths in parallel. He contrasts incremental improvements (lower risk, clearer path) with “new indication creation,” which requires building measurement tools, awareness, and endpoints from scratch.

Modality selection is constrained by physics, not just preference.

He outlines major therapy “formats” (small molecules/chemicals; biologics like antibodies/peptides/soluble receptors; gene and cell therapies; devices) and notes format choice depends on biology, feasibility, patient practicality, and company capabilities. For high-affinity ligand–receptor systems (very “sticky” binding), antibodies may be required because small molecules often can’t compete at picomolar–nanomolar affinities.

The economics of innovation are dominated by time-limited exclusivity and IP strategy.

Klickstein explains patents as a time-limited monopoly (generally 20 years from filing), yielding roughly 10–15 years of post-launch exclusivity after development time. Companies may build dense “patent thickets” (formulation, device, dosing, method-of-use, manufacturing) to extend protection; trade secrets can also matter when manufacturing complexity is hard to replicate (e.g., historical examples like Armour Thyroid, Acthar).

If you can’t measure an outcome well, you can’t build a drug program around it.

A major barrier to sarcopenia/falls drug development is defining measurable, reliable endpoints. Klickstein recounts a failed attempt to objectively measure falls using wearable accelerometers in nursing home residents (poor sensitivity/specificity), which effectively halted that program—illustrating how endpoint feasibility can determine whether an indication is developable.

Bimagrumab reliably increases muscle mass, but function is harder to move clinically.

Bimagrumab blocks activin receptor type II signaling, inhibiting the inhibitory pathway (myostatin + activins) that limits muscle growth; in rodents it produced dramatic hypertrophy and functional gains, but in humans muscle mass increases were modest (~4–8%). Across many Novartis studies, muscle size gains did not translate into large functional improvements without other interventions (e.g., resistance training and adequate protein).

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

A patent is essentially a monopoly on being able to make, use, and sell the drug, uh, in exchange for telling everybody how to do it.

— Lloyd B. Klickstein

If you have, say, 20 risks you're taking in a drug development program... and all of them have, have maybe a 90% chance of success, you multiply all that out 10 or 20 times, it's zero.

— Lloyd B. Klickstein

Actually, that's probably not true. The worst outcome is succeeding in phase three and failing commercially.

— Lloyd B. Klickstein

We had to stop our whole program for making drugs to prevent falls because we couldn't measure them.

— Lloyd B. Klickstein

Conceptually, it's no different than going and, and, than a drug user going and buying some opioid from a street corner drug dealer. You have no idea what's in that.

— Lloyd B. Klickstein

Translational medicine and new indication creationDrug modalities: small molecules vs biologics vs gene/cell therapiesPatents, exclusivity, and trade secrets in pharmaEndpoint challenges in sarcopenia and fallsMyostatin/activin biology and activin receptor blockadeAntibody discovery: phage display, affinity, developabilityIND-enabling studies, GMP manufacturing, and safety margins in animals vs humans; gray-market peptides critique

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