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Peter Attia MDPeter Attia MD

#87—Rick Johnson, MD: Fructose—the common link in hypertension, insulin resistance, T2D, & obesity?

Original release date: 1/6/20 In this episode, Rick Johnson, professor of nephrology at the University of Colorado, explains how his research into the causes of blood pressure resulted in a change of research direction to focus more on how fructose has such profound metabolic effects. Rick begins by talking about the relationship between salt and high blood pressure, then provides a masterclass into uric acid, and then expertly reveals the mechanisms and pathways by which sugar (specifically fructose) can profoundly impact metabolic health. From there, he explains how he applies this information to real life patients as well as touches on some of the most promising ideas around pharmacotherapy that are being developed in response to the epidemics of fatty liver, insulin resistance, diabetes, and obesity. Furthermore, Rick gives his take on artificial sweeteners compared to real sugar, discusses cancer’s affinity for fructose, and much more. We discuss: -The connection between blood pressure and fructose that shifted Rick’s professional focus [4:00]; -The relationship between salt and blood pressure (and the role of sugar) [5:45]; -Defining fructose, glucose, and sugar [19:30]; -An ancient mutation in apes that explains why humans turn fructose into fat so easily [23:00]; -The problems with elevated uric acid levels, and what it tells us about how sugar causes disease [31:30]; -How sugar causes obesity—explaining the difference in glucose vs. fructose metabolism and the critical pathway induced by fructose [40:00]; -Why drinking sugar is worse than eating it [50:00]; -Unique ability of sugar to drive oxidative stress to the mitochondria, insulin resistance, and diabetes [54:00]; -Why cancer loves fructose [1:00:20]; -The many areas of the body that can use fructose [1:05:00]; -Fructokinase inhibitors—a potential blockbuster? [1:07:15]; -Treating high uric acid levels—Rick’s approach with patients [1:10:00]; -Salt intake—what advice does Rick give his patients? [1:16:30]; -How excess glucose (i.e., high carb diets) can cause problems even in the absence of fructose [1:21:00]; -Artificial sweeteners vs. real sugar—which is better? [1:29:15]; -Umami, MSG, alcohol, beer—do these have a role in metabolic illness? [1:33:45]; -Fructose consumption—Is any amount acceptable? Is fruit okay? Where does Rick draw a hard line? [1:38:45] -How does Rick manage the sugar intake of his young kids? [1:43:00]; and -More. Show notes page: https://peterattiamd.com/rickjohnson/ -------- About: The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 30 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more. Peter is a physician focusing on the applied science of longevity. His practice deals extensively with nutritional interventions, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, emotional and mental health, and pharmacology to increase lifespan (delay the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life). Learn more: https://peterattiamd.com Subscribe to receive exclusive subscriber-only content: https://peterattiamd.com/subscribe Sign up to receive Peter's email newsletter: https://peterattiamd.com/newsletter Connect with Peter on: Facebook: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDFB Twitter: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDTW Instagram: http://bit.ly/PeterAttiaMDIG Subscribe to The Drive: Apple Podcast: http://bit.ly/TheDriveApplePodcasts Overcast: http://bit.ly/TheDriveOvercast Spotify: http://bit.ly/TheDriveSpotify Google Podcasts: http://bit.ly/TheDriveGoogle

Peter AttiahostDr. Rick Johnsonguest
Jul 7, 20201h 50mWatch on YouTube ↗

At a glance

WHAT IT’S REALLY ABOUT

Dr. Rick Johnson Links Fructose, Uric Acid, Salt to Metabolic Disease

  1. Johnson says the key factor in blood pressure is serum sodium concentration rather than total salt, and that drinking water with salty food blunts the rise in blood pressure.
  2. He describes an evolutionary story in which a uricase mutation in European apes about 12 million years ago amplified the uric acid response to fruit, helping them store fat and survive, but leaving humans sensitive to sugar.
  3. Fructose metabolism by fructokinase depletes cellular ATP and phosphate in an unregulated way, which activates AMP deaminase and uric acid production and shifts cells toward fat storage, insulin resistance and fatty liver.
  4. The body can also make fructose from glucose via aldose reductase, triggered by high salt, dehydration or high-glycemic carbohydrates, so avoiding dietary fructose alone may not be sufficient.
  5. Johnson discusses practical measures including treating elevated uric acid with allopurinol, drinking water, avoiding sugary liquids, limiting high-fructose fruit portions, and the emerging fructokinase inhibitors being developed.

IDEAS WORTH REMEMBERING

5 ideas

Salt concentration matters more than salt amount

Johnson says a small rise in serum sodium, such as from 140 to 142, raised blood pressure about six points in his soup study, and this did not happen when the salty soup was taken with water.

Fructose is metabolized differently from glucose

Fructokinase consumes ATP without feedback regulation, so cellular energy can fall 40 to 50 percent, triggering a survival response that favors fat storage, hunger and reduced energy expenditure.

Uric acid is more than a gout marker

Johnson argues soluble uric acid inside cells causes oxidative stress in mitochondria and islets, and animal studies showed that lowering it with allopurinol blocked many effects of fructose.

Drinking sugar is worse than eating it

Liquid fructose arrives at the liver quickly and at high concentration, which drives the ATP depletion, and Johnson notes that studies using slow sipping or fasting-morning measurements can miss the effect.

The body can make its own fructose

High salt, dehydration and high-glycemic carbohydrates can induce aldose reductase, which converts glucose to fructose in the liver, so fructose-free diets can still produce fructose-driven harm.

WORDS WORTH SAVING

5 quotes

It's the only nutrient that lowers energy in the cell.

— Dr. Rick Johnson

It's like a mayday signal. It says, "We're under attack. We're running out of energy."

— Dr. Rick Johnson

I think living without fructokinase would probably solve a lot of the world's health problems.

— Dr. Rick Johnson

If you drank water and then ate your pretzel, you would be safer than if you ate your pretzel and then drank the water because what triggers it is the rise in salt.

— Dr. Rick Johnson

Regular Coke is more dangerous than a Diet Coke.

— Dr. Rick Johnson

Salt concentration and blood pressureKidney inflammation and primary hypertensionUricase mutation and ape evolutionFructokinase, ATP depletion and AMPD pathwayUric acid, gout and allopurinolEndogenous fructose production from glucoseArtificial sweeteners, umami and beer

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