Peter on exercise, important labs, building good habits, longevity research (Special AMA sneak peek)

1. 0:00 – 0:11

   Intro

   1. PAPeter Attia0:00

      [upbeat music] Hey, everyone. Welcome to "The Drive" podcast. I'm your host, Peter Attia.

   2. SPSpeaker0:10

      Peter,

2. 0:11 – 2:30

   Overview of episode topics (and Peter’s car stereo saga)

   1. SPSpeaker0:11

      welcome to a special bonus AMA. How you doing?

   2. PAPeter Attia0:14

      I'm doing well. Thank you for having me back.

   3. SPSpeaker0:17

      Anything new going on in your life?

   4. PAPeter Attia0:19

      [laughs] Just a few things.

   5. SPSpeaker0:22

      I say that with not knowing anything, but just anything that jumps out to you.

   6. PAPeter Attia0:27

      No, but I did wake up to an awesome text message today. So, um, I've got this, uh, car that I'm trying to do something to the, uh, to the, to the stereo system, and, um, uh, the, the guy who really, really knows what he's doing has been working on it for six weeks and he just... y- he cannot figure out what's wrong with this thing, and it's super complicated. And he sent me this video this morning, and it was, like, a video of him moving through the car, and he says, "I figured it out." And he hits the stereo, and all you hear is the beginning of AC/DC's "Back in Black," like full beans. And I was like, "That is an awesome video to wake up to."

   7. SPSpeaker1:12

      That's amazing. Back in the day, the younger days, did you ever put, like, one of those big subwoofers in your car ever?

   8. PAPeter Attia1:19

      No, [laughs] I did not. I re- uh, you know, believe it or not, I, I, I, I, I didn't, I didn't actually own my first car till I was in med school. Um, I, I kinda rode my bike and took the bus everywhere.

   9. SPSpeaker1:30

      Well, that's fair.

   10. PAPeter Attia1:30

       Yeah.

   11. SPSpeaker1:31

       That's fair. I know, we should, uh, maybe we'll get to it. You told the story, I think, in the book, too, and I think it's come up on another podcast, but whenever I think of you, med school, and driving, I think of you falling asleep in the park in Baltimore because you were so s-

   12. PAPeter Attia1:45

       That was residency.

   13. SPSpeaker1:46

       Oh, residency.

   14. PAPeter Attia1:47

       Residency.

   15. SPSpeaker1:47

       Oh.

   16. PAPeter Attia1:47

       Yeah, yeah, yeah. Med- med school is not that exhausting.

   17. SPSpeaker1:50

       I love it. Um, well, so for today's AMA, it's gonna be kind of a little different style, just more conversational, um, a little bit covering questions that come through that we haven't covered before. Some of it will be kind of conversations that we've had internally, that we were like, "Ah, it'd be great to record this and kind of put it out there." Um, so it's gonna be a mix of specific questions, kind of more framework, organizing principle questions. We'll cover things like labs, prioritization as it relates to actions, what you're excited about in the field of longevity, books you've maybe read recently, and a bunch of other random stuff. So with

3. 2:30 – 15:25

   The importance of grip strength and the best methods for training it effectively

   1. SPSpeaker2:30

      all that said, we'll get going. First topic, your favorite exercise, and within it, we're gonna cover grip strength. So it's something you've talked about before, the importance of, but I don't think we've ever really covered a little bit in depth on, like, how you train for it and how you think about it in the weight room. So before we get to that, do you just kinda wanna remind people why you think grip strength is important?

   2. PAPeter Attia2:54

      Yeah. So grip strength is important probably for a little bit of the reasons that we, um, you know, understand the, uh, the, the drunk under the streetlight problem, which means, you know, the, the story, the old adage of the, uh, drunk guy, uh, standing under the streetlight and, um, you know, someone asks him what he's doing and he says he's looking for his keys, and they ask him if this is where he dropped them and he says, "No, but this is where the light is." Right? So sort of sometimes where, where it's, where it's brightest is where you end up looking. And so I don't wanna, uh, of course, minimize grip strength, but I also wanna just point out that in the literature, when you are, are interested in studying the relationship between strength and outcomes, everything from onset of dementia, all-cause mortality, cardiovascular disease, all of these things which has been studied, you need objective measurements of strength to test. If your hypothesis is strength is positively associated with, correlates with, or even causal towards these things, you have to be able to test it. And so the question then becomes, well, h- how do you test strength? Um, you know, should we have people deadlift things? And I think if you go through that exercise, you pretty quickly realize that's probably not a good idea, right? Because, um, most people don't deadlift, um, and, you know, technique is, is pretty important in deadlifting, and it's pretty easy for somebody to hurt themselves. So what, what scientists have done instead over, over the years is they've, they've tended to study things that anybody can, can do, even if they don't do the particular exercise that's being tested, right? You shouldn't be testing squat strength or deadlift strength if a person doesn't deadlift or squat. So the things that have typically emerged as strength tress-- s- strength tests are, uh, grip strength, uh, wall sits, right? So that's a test of, you know, at least isometric quad strength. Um, bench press, although again, that's, you know, if you don't bench press, that's a bit of a, a stretch. Uh, leg extension. Those tend to be the big ones. Sometimes leg press as well. So I just wanna kinda caveat it by saying I don't think there's something super, super magical about grip strength. We just have such an abundance of data on it because it's such an easy thing to test. So the next question then would be, is there something magical about having a strong grip? And here, I think the answer is, is partly yes. Um, a strong grip in isolation doesn't really exist, so there's really no example I can think of where a person has a very strong grip in their hand but, you know, their forearm, you know, s- deltoids, scapula, triceps, all of these other things are, are weak. So, so a strong grip is sort of a way to test very strong, very stable control through the upper extremity, um, all the way down to the outside world. And again, it's a very practical thing. Um, you just talk to any person who's reached an age where they can't open a new jar of pickles, or they struggle to unlock a door, uh, or they, you know, struggle to carry a heavy plate. So when your grip strength goes, your quality of life absolutely goes. Um, but again, I think it's just a proxy for people who are strong. Um, and that kind of leads into your question, which is how should you train it? So if you, if you agree that the... Well, so, so what's undeniable is the da-the, the, the strength of the association. So I'm not even gonna go into that because the, the data are overwhelming, right? The strength of the association between grip strength and any and everything positive, um, warrants no further discussion. Um, so the, the more important question is, is it causal, right? Um, so, so i-if, if grip strength is just a proxy for health and, um, increasing grip strength does nothing to increase health, then we really shouldn't be talking about this. I don't believe that that's the case, um, and I make a, you know, I make an argument for that in, in, in "Outlive," which is going through sort of the Bradford Hill criteria and explaining why I think there is causality in the association. In other words, why is it that increasing metrics of, um, of strength and endurance also improves lifespan and healthspan, not that they are just markers of healthy people who go on to have a better lifespan and healthspan. So how would you train it? Well, I can't tell you the number of times I give a talk, uh, or I just run into somebody in the airport, and they tell me that they went out and bought a little grip squeezer on Amazon. And they said, "Peter, you've got me convinced I gotta strengthen my grip, so now I sit around and I squeeze these little things all day." And I said, "Well, that's great. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I don't think that's the optimal way to train grip strength." I think what you really wanna do is do all of the other things that rely on strong grip. And the most obvious example of these things are exercises that involve carrying and pulling and hanging. That's really where we put our grip to the test. So I'm giving you a very long-winded answer, Nick, but the, the, the point is you want to train your grip strength by doing the things that rely on grip. So when you pick things up, when you carry things, when you pull things, when you, you know, if you're doing a seated cable pull, if you're doing a pull down, if you're doing a pull up, um, if you're doing a farmer's carry, if you're doing a deadlift, uh, those are the, th-those are the way we train grip. So I don't do very many things that are, quote-unquote, deliberate grip strength exercises, um, although I, I suppose that when I do farmer's carries, I'm almost exclusively doing that to push the limits of my grip.

   3. SPSpeaker8:41

      And maybe let's isolate kinda two of the things you mentioned that I think are easiest for people to potentially, you know, test on themselves, like at a gym, you know, with the least amount of equipment. Like you said, if you haven't deadlifted before, you probably shouldn't just start deadlifting without understanding the form. So I think looking at farmer's carry and dead hang. So let's say farmer's carry. What do you think is, like, the ideal goal for someone to be able to do a farmer's carry with in terms of time and weight?

   4. PAPeter Attia9:13

      Well, lots of people have, have weighed in on this question, and I think the question just becomes, like, how extreme do you wanna go? So there are, you know, there's a standard out there that basically says the, you know, the definition of e- of exceptional strength is being able to walk with twice your body weight for 30 seconds. So, um, if you weigh 175 pounds, you should be able to do a trap bar, uh, deadlift with, you know, 350 pounds and then carry it, walk with it for 30 seconds. Um, and obviously that's a very high standard. Um, but I would say a more reasonable standard for kind of, you know, maybe sub-elite athletes, um, I think for, for a male in his 40s, um, to be able to carry his body weight for one minute is, is good, and for two minutes is very good. Just your body weight. So, so again, if you weighed 175 pounds, you'd put 175 pounds on a trap bar, you'd pick it up, um, and, and, and march with that for, um, for one to two minutes. And I think for a, a woman, I would probably consider 75% of her body weight to be also an excellent achievement. And then of course, you might discount that by 10% per decade. Again, I, I don't think a person should be, uh, discouraged if the first time they try to do that, they can't do it. Uh, in fact, if you haven't been doing that sort of thing, and if you're not used to deadlifting and doing a lot of pull-ups and hangs, um, I would not expect anybody to be able to do that. And so you, you do wanna work up to that, and I, I really believe in the principle of working up to that without going to maximal effort. I th- I, I, I, I know that there's, there's a lot to be said from doing maximal efforts, um, but I think this is an area where I prefer to sort of see people build resilience slowly and, uh, for example, if an individual tried that test. So let's just say you take a 175-pound person, they put 175 pounds on a hex bar, they say, "Look, I wanna carry this for at least a minute," and 30 seconds in, they drop it. I'd say, "Great. Okay. What I want you to do is drop the weight on that bar to, you know, call it 150 pounds," so well below, you know, 25 pounds below that, um, that 175, "and I'd like you to do 30-second sets. I'd like you to do 10 sets at 30 seconds. Um, and then I want you to advance weight and/or time accordingly, but I want you to be able to get through those 10 sets such that at the end of the 10, you're really completely gassed." That's the way I kind of like to see people build, um, build strength there. Another test that we've talked about is the, is the dead hang. Um, so as its name suggests, you just sort of put your hands up on the bar. This is over a... You can do it over any configuration of bars, but I, I kinda like to just do it over a straight bar. Um, and, um, you, you hang. Now, again, there's two big things to be thinking about here. Do you do it with the scapula engaged or not engaged? Um, and I like to do it with the, with the scapula engaged, so the scapula are down, um, and so the lats are, uh, under a lot of stress, but they're not being as stretched, um, as if they're, as if I'm, um, if, if the scapula go up. If the scapula go up, you're gonna put a little bit more stress on the, um, on the elbows. Again, not That doesn't necessarily cause problems, by the way. I, I, I can dead hang both, and my dead hang record was actually an attempt where I- my scapula were up. So sometimes I, I will, I will go back and forth between the two techniques. Um, and I, you know, didn't suffer any, you know, permanent injury from doing that or anything like that. So again, I think here a, a standard would be for a v- you know, a very strong 40-year-old male, uh, should be able to dead hang for at least two minutes, um, and a very strong 40-year-old female should be able to dead hang for at least 90 seconds. And again, you would discount that, um, as time goes, uh, by decade and, and probably subtract about, uh, 10 seconds per decade. And again, um, you know, it... a lot of people don't succeed in that at their first time. That's fine. Um, but again, you can, you can do that either by adding bands, so you, you, you use a band, a resistance band that you, you are, you are sinking into, right? You put your feet into it, so it's removing some of the weight. Um, alternatively, I just like to have people go for much shorter periods of time, maybe do 30-second hangs and, and repeat those.

   5. SPSpeaker13:23

      And do you have a preference on, like, hands the same way, hands that are switched? Do you even think about that, or is it just a matter of just pure hang?

   6. PAPeter Attia13:32

      Sure. You can, you can mix and match, but a- again, I think for this, I like to be palms out. So I'm palms out, both hands the same, over.

   7. SPSpeaker13:41

      And remind me, what was your record?

   8. PAPeter Attia13:43

      Four minutes, 35 seconds, and that was with scapula drop. Or, like, that was full scapula up, so not en- not engaged scaps.

   9. SPSpeaker13:52

      Wow.

   10. PAPeter Attia13:52

       And my wife's record is three minutes and 10 seconds, which-

   11. SPSpeaker13:55

       Yeah, she's-

   12. PAPeter Attia13:56

       ... I think is actually more impressive

   13. SPSpeaker13:57

       ... a machine.

   14. PAPeter Attia13:57

       Yeah.

   15. SPSpeaker13:58

       And she probably trains it a little less than you were training for your record.

   16. PAPeter Attia14:02

       It was literally the second time she ever did a dead hang.

   17. SPSpeaker14:04

       [laughs]

   18. PAPeter Attia14:06

       I mean, and she literally just did it to... Like, she was like, "Why do you keep doing this?" I go, "Let me, let me try."

   19. SPSpeaker14:13

       Just to show you it's not that hard. You're spending too much time on it.

   20. PAPeter Attia14:16

       Yeah, exactly.

   21. SPSpeaker14:17

       Um, you mentioned wall sits, so I gotta ask, what... Like, what's ideal for wall sits? An- again, it's another one anyone can kinda do and test a little bit. Do you think about, like, you know, what is an ideal time that you should be able to do that for, a goal?

   22. PAPeter Attia14:33

       Yeah. There, there are standards, and I apologize. They're not tip of tongue for me. I, I wanna say two minutes is considered a pretty good wall sit for anybody. Um, I don't tend to do wall sits like that. I, I... There's another exercise I prefer to do, which is, um, I'll do, uh, like an air bike. So I'll, I'll ride on the air bike for, um, a minute hard, and then I'll pick- I'll hold a kettlebell and wall sit for 30 seconds, um, to a minute. So it's a shorter sit, but I come in pre-fatigued. Plus, I'm, you know, adding some stress to it by holding a weight. Um, but if you just do a straight up wall sit, I apologize. We'll put it in the show notes for what a good standard is. I wanna say it's two minutes, but it might be five minutes. I don- I honestly don't remember.

   23. SPSpeaker15:18

       Anything else on grip strength before we move on?

   24. PAPeter Attia15:22

       No, I think that's good.

   25. SPSpeaker15:24

       Perfect. Um,

4. 15:25 – 19:04

   Exercise while traveling: strategies for staying active and maintaining an exercise routine

   1. SPSpeaker15:25

      another question that comes through a lot is on exercises, people who are traveling. So whether it's for work, whether it's family, you know, you're not at your traditional location, gym, whatever it may be. So if you're traveling, kind of like any advice you would give patients on, you know, easy exercises they can do, ways they can continue to stay active, you know, even when they're not in an ideal s- setting.

   2. PAPeter Attia15:52

      Yeah. I, I do get asked this question a lot, and honestly, like, my answer is you have to be deliberate. I mean, I, I, I, I know it sounds like maybe not what people wanna hear. I think people are looking for a quick fix. But when I travel, you c- you can ask my assistant, like, what's the first thing I'm asking? Like, what's question number one? It's, "Show me the gym," right? Like, I wanna know exactly what the gym looks like, and if the website doesn't have good pictures, please have somebody who works at the front desk go down with their phone, film the gym, send us the video so we can evaluate. Yeah, I know. It sounds ridiculous. I get it. But, like, unless you're going to the middle of nowhere where you have no choice in hotel, you have a choice in where you stay. Now, you'll have to make a concession. Maybe you have to be a little bit further from the place you wanna be at. Maybe you're gonna add 10 minutes or 15 minutes of driving time. Um, maybe the hotel's gonna be a little bit more expensive. Like, there i- there will be a trade-off, and, and everyone has to make that trade-off. But I start with that question, which is, "How can I make sure that whatever hotel I'm at has a good enough gym?" It's not gonna be the gym I have at home. It's not gonna, you know, allow me to do everything I would do at home, but that's okay. Um, b- you know, I... Basically, I've never been to a hotel where I can't do something, right? They... If, even if they just have a bench and dumbbells, um, and I can do presses, and I can do rows, and I can do push-ups, and, you know, hopefully the bench inclines, so maybe I can do an incline bench, uh, as long as a fl- as well as a f- as well as a flat bench. I could do rear foot elevated split squats, regular split squats. Like, there's a lot you can do with, you know, a modest amount of dumbbells and a, and a bench. And then, of course, most gyms have much more than that. Um, so, so that, that to me is, is sort of step one. Step two is when traveling, you have to sort of be mindful of what jet lag is going to do to you. So when... Because I'm in Central Time Zone, and when I travel west, it's really easy for me to work out early in the morning. You know, a 5:00 AM workout is easy when I go to California for three days. Um, so I can start my meetings actually quite early on those days because I know I'm gonna get the workout done early. Conversely, if I go to New York, I have to keep in mind, like, I'm gonna be a little bit tired. I am not gonna wanna work out at 6:00, 'cause 6:00 feels like 5:00, and I don't like working... I mean, even though I'm comfortable getting up at 5:00, I don't wanna work out first thing a- at 5:00. So then I have to adjust the timing of the meetings. So, um, I think those are basically the two big things is make sure that your schedule has the time for you to do the workout, and budget according to what jet lag is going to do to you, and pick a place to go so that you can get the workout in the hotel. Um, that's always going to be easier than if you have to leave the hotel to go to the gym. You can do that, and of course- There's been many times in my life when dr- you know, b- my training was so elaborate that I had to go into a commercial gym, but it was the same playbook. I would just book a hotel near the commercial gym.

   3. SPSpeaker18:48

      Yeah, and it sounds like the key is something's better than nothing when you're traveling and it comes to exercise.

   4. PAPeter Attia18:54

      Hundred percent, yeah. The goal, the goal of exerci- the goal of trav- uh, exercising when you're traveling is not to maybe make the most incredible gains. It's just to prevent the losses.

   5. SPSpeaker19:02

      Another question that comes through

5. 19:04 – 20:58

   Why women should prioritize strength training

   1. SPSpeaker19:04

      often is kind of sex specific. So kind of if you have female patients who prefer like cardio compared to weightlifting, you know, why do you think women should pay special attention to strength training?

   2. PAPeter Attia19:20

      Yeah, there are two big reasons for this. The first is that women naturally have less muscle mass and are not as strong as men, um, and yet they still live in the same environment as men do, which is to say they're gonna be subject to all the same forces. And, um, this is one of the reasons why we see women fall more than men. It's not just that women are more injured by falls, which w- th- which they are, and we'll discuss that in a moment. It's that, um, women actually fall more than men, and one of the reasons for that is a disparate, um, um, e-exchange in strength. Um, so that's reason number one. Reason number two is, of course, strength training is one of the most important exercises, um, that we have, one of the most important behaviors that we have to stabilize bone density. And because women tend to have a lower genetic ceiling, and more importantly, because women, uh, lose estrogen during the middle of their lives, they begin to experience a disproportionate drop in bone density as they age. And so the gap between men and women that's always there really begins to widen in the fifth or sixth decade of a woman's life, and that's all the more reason why she needs to be strength training, because there really is no substitute for, um, the, the, the type of strain that is placed on bones during strength training. Um, it can't be replicated by running, certainly can't be replicated by cycling or swimming or other endurance sports, yoga. All of those things are simply not going to do it, um, and therefore, they've, they've got to be able to put this kind of external load on.

   3. SPSpeaker20:56

      And last

6. 20:58 – 28:01

   The limited role of exercise in weight loss and its greater importance in improving health, body composition, and insulin sensitivity

   1. SPSpeaker20:58

      exercise question is kind of a conversation that you had internally with a few people that we thought was interesting on kind of how you think about exercise as a strategy for weight loss. Do you kinda wanna talk a little bit about that?

   2. PAPeter Attia21:14

      Well, I, I overall don't think exercise is a, is a phenomenal strategy for, for weight loss, uh, which is not to say that it doesn't play a role in, in maintaining a healthy weight. I think it does, but I think if you look at the experimental evidence, um, exercise, i.e. calorie expenditure, does not appear to be a very viable tool for weight loss. Uh, and by weight loss, we're obviously talking about fat loss. Um, the majority of the, of the work on that front really has to be done through caloric restriction. So if you just wanna simplify and think of a machine with inputs and outputs, it's really reduction of the inputs that seems to play the greater role in weight loss. That said, um, we think that exercise is a very important part of health and that health is the single most important thing. It's more important than weight loss per se. Furthermore, exercise does indeed make a difference for body composition, and body composition should probably be thought of as more important than weight per se. So, um, y- you know, if an individual... Like, I, I, I don't think a BMI is an especially, uh, valuable tool at the individual level. I think it's a reasonable tool at the population level. Um, but for any one individual, BMI is not really that helpful. I don't know my BMI, but I would bet that it's in the overweight. I know it's in the overweight category. Uh, my BMI is probably twenty-seven or twenty-eight, um, which again, overweight is, is once you're above twenty-five but below thirty. Thirty is obese. I'm not quite there. Um, but y- you know, it... So, so if my BMI is, is overweight, is that a bad thing? Well, not necessarily. It depends on my body composition. And so here is an area where exercise makes a huge difference. Um, I think indirectly there are other areas where exercise is very important for weight maintenance. Um, and I think, for example, exercise maintains insulin sensitivity, and the more insulin sensitive a person is, I think the easier it is for them to respond to appetite signals. And so w- while just doing the accounting of calories burned versus calories in, exercise generally falls short there. In other words, whatever calories you expend doing the workout, you're generally gonna pay them back. The goal, I think, is to be sensitive to the appropriate, um, appetite signals so that one doesn't overeat in that, in that state.

   3. SPSpeaker23:44

      Awesome. Any other things on exercise at top of mind that you want to share with the people before we move on?

   4. PAPeter Attia23:53

      I like exercise.

   5. SPSpeaker23:54

      [laughs] That's... You, you could-

   6. PAPeter Attia23:57

      I said that in a-- I tried to say that in a Steve Carell voice, like, "I like lamp." Or, "I love lamp." [chuckles]

   7. SPSpeaker24:03

      You could've saved a lot of time and a lot of words by just having that have been Outlive. Like, it probably would have come out a lot earlier if it was just one page, one sentence.

   8. PAPeter Attia24:13

      [laughs]

   9. SPSpeaker24:15

      Okay, moving on to labs. So this question I know is a tough one for you to answer. The reason I know that is it's been on other AMAs, and it always gets scrapped because you're like, "I can't answer this. It's too simple, too hard to do it." But we keep sneaking it on, and now you kind of have to answer it, which is if you had to pick- Gun to your head, the quote-unquote top five most important biomarkers that everyone should know for themselves and/or if you were going to meet with a new patient and you could kind of only see five biomarkers to figure out their risk, to figure out where they're at, what would those be?

   10. PAPeter Attia24:59

       Thank you for listening to today's sneak peek AMA episode of The Drive. If you're interested in hearing the complete version of this AMA, you'll want to become a premium member. It's extremely important to me to provide all of this content without relying on paid ads. To do this, our work is made entirely possible by our members. And in return, we offer exclusive member-only content and benefits above and beyond what is available for free. So if you want to take your knowledge of this space to the next level, it's our goal to ensure members get back much more than the price of the subscription. Premium membership includes several benefits. First, comprehensive podcast show notes that detail every topic, paper, person, and thing that we discuss in each episode. And the word on the street is nobody's show notes rival ours. Second, monthly Ask Me Anything or AMA episodes. These episodes are comprised of detailed responses to subscriber questions, typically focused on a single topic and are designed to offer a great deal of clarity and detail on topics of special interest to our members. You'll also get access to the show notes for these episodes, of course. Third, delivery of our premium newsletter, which is put together by our dedicated team of research analysts. This newsletter covers a wide range of topics related to longevity and provides much more detail than our free weekly newsletter. Fourth, access to our private podcast feed that provides you with access to every episode, including AMAs, sans the spiel you're listening to now and in your regular podcast feed. Fifth, The Qualies, an additional member-only podcast we put together that serves as a highlight reel featuring the best excerpts from previous episodes of The Drive. This is a great way to catch up on previous episodes without having to go back and listen to each one of them. And finally, other benefits that are added along the way. If you want to learn more and access these member-only benefits, you can head over to peterattiamd.com/subscribe. You can also find me on YouTube, Instagram, and Twitter, all with the handle PeterAttiaMD. You can also leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast player you use. This podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services, including the giving of medical advice. No doctor-patient relationship is formed. The use of this information and the materials linked to this podcast is at the user's own risk. The content on this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice from any medical condition they have, and they should seek the assistance of their healthcare professionals for any such conditions. Finally, I take all conflicts of interest very seriously. For all of my disclosures and the companies I invest in or advise, please visit peterattiamd.com/about where I keep an up-to-date and active list of all disclosures.

Episode duration: 28:12