PivotA Pardon for Silence on Epstein? Ghislaine Maxwell Speaks | Pivot
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
105 min read · 20,682 words- 0:00 – 0:35
Intro
- KSKara Swisher
She could have told the truth a million times and saved all these women untold trauma, but she isn't 'cause she's a monster and deserves to stay in jail the rest of her life. (instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
We've got a lot to get to today, including, uh, the FCC green-lighting the Skydance-Paramount merger, no surprise, and what Trump is saying about a pardon for Ghislaine Maxwell, the sexual abuser. I'm gonna say that with everything. It's incredible that they're...
- 0:35 – 6:36
Astronomer “Hires” Gwyneth
- KSKara Swisher
Well, we'll get to it. But first, the Coldplay kiss cam sag is not over. Astronomer, the tech firm at the center of all the drama, has a new temporary spokesperson. Let's hear from her.
- NANarrator
Thank you for your interest in Astronomer. (instrumental music) Hi, I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. I've been hired on a very temporary basis to speak on behalf of the 300-plus employees at Astronomer. Astronomer has gotten a lot of questions over the last few days.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, that's Gwyneth Paltrow, Oscar winner, entrepreneur, and ex-wife of Coldplay's lead singer, Chris Martin. The tongue-in-cheek video she pivots from, uh, kiss cam questions to highlighting the company's (laughs) AI tools in its upcoming conference. Forbes said the video offers a crisis playbook for CEOs. I was really curious, just s- just so people know that the c- uh, why not take advantage of a terrible situation, for one? Coldplay is also benefiting. Streams of their songs are up 25, uh,%. I just, I was sitting there. I'm like, "I wonder what Scott thinks." I liked it. My friend, uh, Brooke says, "Straight women don't like it. Gay people and straight men (laughs) like it." I don't know if that's true. Um, how do you, how do you... What do you think about it as a marketer?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, first, unfairly, I don't think much. I, I, for some reason, I don't love Gwyneth Paltrow.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I wish she'd run into a snowplow-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... in that accident or...
- KSKara Swisher
Right. (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
She calls herself her thought leader, but I think her only thought should be, "I should've finished college."
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
But anyways...
- KSKara Swisher
Okay. All right.
- SGScott Galloway
Um...
- KSKara Swisher
Move along.
- SGScott Galloway
I think it's genius.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Absolute genius. I think the CMO, I think that is probably the best marketing move so far of 2025, just to lean into it, um, you know, just to own it. She's been perfectly cast. She is, I think she is a, she is a great actress. And the connection with Chris Mar- uh, genius. And we live in an age where it is so crowded out there. Everyone's trying to grab... If you think of the marketing funnel, we always talk about the marketing funnel, but it, it, it kinda distills down to awareness, intent, purchase, then loyalty. And one of the hardest things that, uh, both Trump and, uh, Musk have weaponized, and I think the reason that they're president and the wealthiest man in the world, is they really understand the power of awareness, even if it goes against traditional instinct of making you look bad. You'd rather be known, um, uh, for something not great than not known at all. The worst thing you can say about someone after you meet them, what's the worst thing you can say about them?
- KSKara Swisher
I forgot them.
- SGScott Galloway
I don't remember 'em.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I don't know who they are or-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... what, who. And them leaning into this, I bet the company Astronomer has gone from zero, literally 0% awareness. It wouldn't have even registered statistically if you did-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... an awareness from pew or something-
- KSKara Swisher
I thought it was for, like, telescopes.
- SGScott Galloway
... to probably 20 or 30% right now.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I bet one in three Americans have heard of this company called Astronomer. So...
- 6:36 – 13:49
EU Trade Deal
- KSKara Swisher
candles. President Trump announced that the US trade, uh, re- US reached a trade deal with the EU on Sunday, shortly before the August 1st deadline. You've made a deal. The deal imposes a 15% tariff on most European goods to the US, which is higher than the 10% baseline tariffs the EU was hoping for. President Trump called the agreement, quote, "The biggest deal ever made," and quote, "Satisfactory to both sides, although the EU will not be imposing a tariff on American imports." President Trump called the agreement, "The biggest deal ever made!" What... he never can just satisfactory to both sides, and satisfactory to both sides, although the EU will not be imposing a tariff on American imports. Trump said the EU also agreed to purchase $750 billion worth of US energy and additional 600 billion worth of investments in the US and hundreds of billions in military equipment. 50% tariff on steel, uh, uh, from Europe remains in place though. Meanwhile, Trump also filled his weekend with something else, golfing at his golf resorts in Scotland. It's estimated the golfing trip will cost American taxpayers over $10 million to top his golf love. That brings the total golf cost of his second term to at least $52 million. He spent $152 million golfing in his first term. Um, but those fed reni- renovations, right, Scott? Um, so anyway, talk about the EU deal, the golfing thing is just grotesque the way he does this. But it's part... we're sort of used to it, unfortunately.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I'll just... (sighs) I, I don't, I don't like to give Trump any wins, but just trying to call balls and strikes. Look, I, the guy plays too much golf. Uh, uh, in my opinion, he's not focused on the right... he's either thinking about a calm strategy around avoiding Epstein or making big, bold, declarative statements, not putting in the real work that a president, in my opinion, is supposed to do, as evidenced by the fact that he's golfed whatever, 50 times. Having said that, presidents need to take time off and when they take time off, it's gonna cost a lot of money 'cause there's an infrastructure around protecting the president. So I don't fault him for that. The EU deal so far, I need to dig in, but I actually think the EU deal is a pretty good deal. I, I mean, I'm not sure we needed to start this nonsense to begin with.
- KSKara Swisher
Right, right.
- SGScott Galloway
But it so far looks like a pretty reasonable deal. What's interesting is that in some instances, it actually lowers tariffs. So it's like, okay, so Trump is actually a free trader now? Which should... I like. I think that...
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... you know, I would like to see just zero tariff zones and I think, um, free trade is absolutely, uh, inextricably linked to our prosperity. Comparative advantage is just... at, at, at the end of the day, the reason why we have all these talented people around us is there are some people who are better at things than we are and we exchange what we're good at and then we all end up better off. And so I kinda like this deal. The number one or number two exports from the US into the EU are oil and, or energy, and I think we sell them a lot of jet planes. They sell a lot of pharmaceuticals into us. So I, uh, I didn't... it seemed pretty-
- KSKara Swisher
Here's the thing.
- SGScott Galloway
Yep.
- KSKara Swisher
It felt like a press release 'cause now the, the Vietnamese and the Ja- Japan one don't seem to be as full as... you know, I mean, like, he's so into the press release of everything. It seems like a lot of wasted time when this could've been done quietly and behind the scenes and...
- SGScott Galloway
Agreed.
- KSKara Swisher
You know?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, 100%.
- KSKara Swisher
And I don't even know like a lot of the, the, the stuff he signed is not clear if it's signed, right? And again, our own American companies are complaining about the alleged Japanese deal, although that's not clear where that is. Um, and so I just feel like this is a lot of just press releases. Maybe that's what all the presidency is, but I don't think it is. I think they're... you know, these things should take time. They should be well thought out. It shouldn't... you know, poor Ursula von der Leyen, you saw her, the head of the EU, had to sit there, like... I would've loved-
- SGScott Galloway
Oh God, when he was going off?
- KSKara Swisher
... internal, the internal stuff in her head would've been fantastic to, to-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, there's some good memes on that.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
When he just went off. Yeah, but they (sighs) so look, they, uh, uh, we import nuclear reactors, boilers, machinery, mechanical appliance, 15% of cars and other r- non-railway vehicles, 10% of imports. Uh, what's interesting is the tariff on EU cars dropped from 27.5% set in May to 15%, and the tariff on US cars imported at the EU dropped from 10% to 2.5%, but here's the problem, folks. People don't love our cars. We have a... we don't have a tariff problem. We have a product market fit problem.
- KSKara Swisher
Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
And then, but I... look, I don't... I, I hate to give it to him, but I actually think this deal is better than I would've thought it would be.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I, I, I'm glad it's taking insecurity off the table. The EU is... people think China is our largest trading partner. Our largest trading partner by nation is Mexico, and our largest by region is actually the EU. So having this kind of settled such that we can get back to work, people can start planning their businesses and stop spending time trying to guess what is gonna come out of his office next, I think this is, uh... I think this is a good thing.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, you know, Wall Street had called this, right? Wall Street had sort of been like, "Mm." Just it's been no yips from Wall Street whatsoever this whole couple of weeks.
- SGScott Galloway
My bias is always to look for what's wrong here. I actually think that, that y- there's a lot that's right here. Now whether we needed to do this at all, whether it should've been d- done-
- KSKara Swisher
That's my feeling.
- SGScott Galloway
... by the Secretary of Commerce, a, a really talented Gio Raimondo type figure. Uh, I think that there's a lot of merit to that, that this is more about performance than it is about actual economic growth. But I like the fa- the way I see this is that it's essentially gone the other way, that it's reducing tariffs and increasing free trade, which I like. So I, you know, like, I give this... I hate to do it. I give this, I give this a thumbs, I give this a thumbs up.
- KSKara Swisher
I give it a medium thumbs up only 'cause it didn't have to happen. It's, it's just like a lot and it's like-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... Grandpa knocked over all the chairs and then set them up slightly better. Okay.Great. Thanks, Gramps. Like, could've been done in so many other ways and the, and the kind of-
- SGScott Galloway
That's ageist.
- 13:49 – 14:54
Skydance/Paramount Merger Moves Forward
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, we're back. The FCC has approved Skydance's merger with Paramount, uh, with the commissioners voting two to one along party lines to give the $8 billion deal a green light. FCC chairman, Brendan Carr, uh, said, uh, the agency signed off after Skydance committed to unbiased journalism and agreed not to establish any DEI programs. That guy's such a waste of space in many ways. The merger was approved just days after Trump said he received his $16 million settlement from Paramount. He also claimed to be getting an additional $20 million from Skydance in the form of ads and PSAs, though Skydance has not confirmed that. Um, so talk a little bit about this, 'cause I think you think it's like, a nothing burger of a company. Trump is setting now, setting his sights on ABC and NBC now, calling them political pawns for the Democratic Party and saying their licenses should be revoked. He also went after Oprah and Beyoncé at some point. Um, and while it was happening, South Park, which is a Paramount property, just did, finished a big deal, um, uh, kicked off its 27th season last week with a premiere that skewered Trump and Paramount beautifully. The episode showed Trump in bed with Satan, referencing o- another one of, uh, uh, Trump's
- 14:54 – 20:36
South Park Skewers Trump
- KSKara Swisher
favorite topics. Let's play a bit.
- NANarrator
Hey, Satan.
- KSKara Swisher
I'm not in the mood right now. Another random bitch commented on my Instagram that you're on the Epstein list.
- NANarrator
The Epstein list? Are we still talking about that?
- KSKara Swisher
Well, are you on the list or not? It's weird that whenever it comes up, you just tell everyone to relax.
- NANarrator
I'm not telling everyone to relax. Relax, guy.
- KSKara Swisher
It was worse than that. (laughs) Um, they, they also had a naked Trump. They had his penis with a-
- SGScott Galloway
They had a penis with eyes.
- KSKara Swisher
... eye on it, right? And they talked about how they-
- SGScott Galloway
These guys do a lot of edibles.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, yeah, absolutely. The South Park's creators just signed a new $1.5 billion streaming deal with Paramount.
- SGScott Galloway
They should've got 1.6.
- KSKara Swisher
I know.
- SGScott Galloway
These guys are genius. (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) I, I just... Uh, please, let's, let's just... We'll get to Epstein, the bigger Epstein issue in an instant. But talk about this. I thought this was hysterical. So this is 27 seasons and these guys are still-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
You know, a lot of people don't like 'em 'cause they're so politically incorrect.
- SGScott Galloway
No, they're fantastic.
- KSKara Swisher
But I don't... I love 'em, my kids love 'em. I think they're amazing. Your thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
I, I think, I think it's heartening not only because, well, I enjoy great comedy. But it's heartening that something that's built into our society, I think, is a certain level, and I think this is really encouraging, a certain level of irreverence and commercial opportunity in irreverence. And just as the president has convinced, you know, Bob Iger to bend a knee and will, uh, certain law firms to bend a knee and gotten, you know, said, "Okay, Sheri, if you wanna maintain your status as a billionaire, I, I, I'm gonna get you to bend a knee." Uh, fine, but the moment... (sighs) Uh, a wonderful thing about America is that people are pretty fear- fearless, creatives are pretty fearless, and they come out with something like this. And also, all of the 60-something late, late night talk show hosts that are, uh, uh, you know, making 100 times more than their folks behind the camera, who see any threat against Colbert. I mean, they're just so fucking precious, and I realize how cynical that is, but people love these people. But you, guess what? Uh, they're not gonna be silenced. They're, they're gonna do podcasts. And I'm not saying that... I'm not saying it's, uh, that we shouldn't take this kind of move towards fascism and this attempt to intimidate journalists, we shou- that, that we shouldn't take it seriously. But what I find is, examples like this, and there's examples everywhere, are basically the American culture, the creative community kind of say, "Fuck you," and, and find... You know, it's like, remember in Jurassic Park, it said that life finds a way? Well, guess what? The truth and, the truth in humor and satire, it finds a way. And, and it made me feel good that as, as much as they're gonna attempt to silence critics, it's not gonna work, or I don't think it's gonna work. Because the same, same station, or same broadcast network that agreed to basically pay off the president, was intimidated, bent a knee, and then as soon as these guys signed a deal, they put out (laughs) something like that.
- KSKara Swisher
My goodness.
- SGScott Galloway
I just found it very encouraging.
- KSKara Swisher
Weren't you like, "Oh, my God"? Like, I was like, "Wow." Like-
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, oh, these guys went for it.
- KSKara Swisher
Went for it. They just went and they talked about it.
- SGScott Galloway
Zero fucks given. Whoa.
- KSKara Swisher
They talked about it, and they, uh, that they approved it. One of the things that I liked about it... You know, a lot of people, when I say I like South Park, everyone's like, "Oh, they're anti-this, anti-" Um, you know what? If you liked this one, you have, you have to like being offended all the time by these guys. They are, they do do, like, really-... heinous stuff, but it's funny. It's ... Or, or just laugh about it. They're, they're comedy. And again, actually when Babylon Bee happened, um, when, when, when, um ... What was it? Anti-trans thing. It was just not funny is what it was. That's my issue with it, whenever it's not funny. But I think we have to give huge leeway to comics and satirists and all that stuff. The stuff that does make me nervous, I'll tell you, is like, accu- I, I know this is a distraction, and you talk about Trump like this, but accusing Oprah and Beyonce of taking millions for their 2024 Kamala endorsements and saying they should be prosecuted. Th- the continuing Obama videos, which are really disturbing and not funny, and I get the idea of he can do whatever he wants, but ... And Trump's legal team asked the judge to order Rupert Murdoch to sit for an expedited deposition in that lawsuit, or that $10 billion lawsuit, citing his age as the reason to, uh, to do this sooner rather than later, although I think Rupert will outlast Trump by a s- a long stretch. But do you ... Uh, uh, that stuff really is disturbing. The idea that he's getting free ads or that he's, uh ... I love these guys, but not everyone can be these guys. And a lot ... Some of it is serious and some of it is just funny, like that they stick it in his eye kind of thing, or the eye of his penis, I guess.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. Look, uh, this was ... Um, I think satire plays an important role. I think the left has shot itself in the foot by becoming so sensitive that we have ceded irreverent comedy to the right. And people love irreverent comedy, and it's ... And we used to own it. If you think about the real social c- um, you know, comedians and social commentators-
- KSKara Swisher
Lenny Bruce. George Carlin.
- SGScott Galloway
They were ... Yeah, they came from the ... Lenny Bruce. These were offensive people.
- 20:36 – 26:32
Ghislaine Maxwell’s Possible Pardon
- KSKara Swisher
and they're creepy. Um, and speaking of creepy, um, President Trump says he's all- he, he's allowed to pardon Ghislaine Maxwell. And we know this, President Trump, but nobody's approached him about it. Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche met with Maxwell for nine hours across two days last week at a Florida prison, where she's serving her 20-year sentence. It should be 100 years. Maxwell was asked about 100 different people according to her lawyer, and she reportedly granted limited immunity for the interviews, essentially immunity that applies only if she doesn't lie. Let's listen to what else Maxwell's lawyer said about the meeting.
- NANarrator
This was the first opportunity she's ever been given to answer questions, um, about what happened. And so, so, uh, the truth will come out about what happened with, with Mr. Epstein, and, and she's the person who's answering those questions.
- KSKara Swisher
Dear lawyer, it is not the first opportunity she's ever been given to answer questions. She just refused to do so, and she almost, uh, went up for perjury 'cause she's a liar, she's a sexual harasser, she's convicted sex tra- You know, just stop it. This is a person who deserves no ... I know we do immunity deals with these people to get stuff, but this cynical, horrible monster, as I said last week, is ... The fact that they're focused on her and not the victims continues to astonish me. And the idea that Republicans are suddenly like, "Oh, she's our hero or a version of our hero. Oh, if she tells the truth, then it's good." She coulda told the truth a million times and saved all these women untold trauma, but she isn't 'cause she's a monster and deserves to stay in jail the rest of her life. I mean, the 20 years to me is not at all long enough. I don't know what you think, but I'm just like, "Are you kidding me with this lady?" I don't know.
- SGScott Galloway
So before we get back to that, you know what my favorite Cartman line is?
- KSKara Swisher
What?
- SGScott Galloway
I say this all the time, and then I have to say it's Cartman 'cause people look at me like, "What the fuck?"
- KSKara Swisher
Right. Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
I'll say, "I'm not just sure. I'm HIV positive." (laughs) And people are like, "What?"
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs) Uh-
- KSKara Swisher
That's good. I love Cartman.
- SGScott Galloway
... he also says, "You know, you can actually die from secondhand smug."
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs) Anyways, um-
- KSKara Swisher
Love Cartman. Love Cartman.
- SGScott Galloway
Look, uh, uh, when something get, becomes a, a really big problem, it can shut down the government. The deficit has gotten so big that Republicans who claim to be fiscally conservative or get mad at social spending and, in my opinion, the Democrats shoulda done it the last time around, they will threaten to shut down the government. And the, the world and the markets freak out temporarily at the idea that the deficit or our fiscal irresponsibility might result in second-order effect of the government being shut down. Okay. A pedophile, a convicted pedophile just shut down the government. Epstein and specifically the attorney general and Trump's, Trump's efforts to (laughs) shut down the release or, or inhibit the release of these files resulted in (laughs) Speaker Johnson excusing Congress early. Epstein shut ... A dead pedophile shut down the US government. So this is having all sorts of second-order effects here. And your point is exactly right. It's ridiculous to think that someone, uh, accused, tried, convicted, incarcerated, of one of the highest profile crimes of the last decade, that there weren't people all over her asking her questions, offering deals. But now they said, "No. We don't like what she said, so we're taking a moment to give her a chance to be part of our political fodder for the protection of the president." So this is, this is hugely political. It's unprecedented. It's unethical. And it raises ... Whatever comes out of this-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... will just be, you know-
- KSKara Swisher
Poisoned fruit, I think.
- SGScott Galloway
Not valid. It just won't-
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
Even if they did it by the book and they found new information or whatever, it's just not-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
The whole thing is tainted. We talked about this at the last show. The fix is in.... so I don't, but I'm just very curious what happens. I think it's gonna be a very long and hot summer at these town hall meetings-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... for Republicans who show up and say, "Okay." And you know who's been really on point here, is Representative Ro Khanna.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes.
- SGScott Galloway
He's been very pointed-
- KSKara Swisher
I just was texting at the (inaudible)
- SGScott Galloway
... and very, um, very accurate, and really, uh, really puncturing around this stuff. And then-
- 26:32 – 33:13
Tony Robbins Sues YesChat
- KSKara Swisher
When we come back, another AI lawsuit. Scott, we're back with more news. Motivational speaker Tony Robbins has sued the makers of an AI tool, YesChat, accusing them of using his name and reputation for a series of chatbots. Robbins says the bots ingested his seminars and copyrighted material, and are reselling it under his name, which he has trademarked. YesChat has several paid subscription tiers, and offers bots such as Talk to Tony Robbins and Tony Robbins GPT. Robbins has his own authorized AI clone available on, by subscription on his website, as he should. The suit is seeking $10 million in damages for unfair competition, $2 million for each trademark violation of which there could be a number, and punitive damages for willful and malicious misconduct. Um, these are gonna be more and more. It's interesting this Tony Robbins, but it makes sense, he has so much material out there, it's so easily AIed. Um, he sometimes sounds like AI, honestly. Um, do you th- talk a little bit about this. Like, they could ingest a lot of your stuff, my stuff, I don't know. But you do a lot of, like, prescriptive stuff like that. Um, d- how do you look at these kind of things?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, so, I've been thinking a lot about this. I, I believe what Jensen Huang said, that everyone should have rights to their digital twin. And first off, only in America could you have a guy who's 6'7" and, like, a pure alpha energy, screaming at a tra- uh, screaming at traumatized accountants.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, it's just... (laughs) Uh, I think Tony Robbins is, is a phenomena. Um, there needs to be pretty serious, in my opinion, legislation. I think, and part of the problem about having, uh, part, one of the problems about having a really old electorate is I just don't think they understand these technologies. I, I think you really need immediately some IP protection that, as, as Jensen Huang said, said, "You own your digital twin." And, uh, so I'm working with a large company, uh, that has a very big search engine, and they're creating, uh, this thing called portraits. Portraits or profiles, where you give them permission to scan everything. I get a lot of questions, a lot of emails, as I'm sure you do, and a lot of them are really thoughtful emails from people asking about their sons or looking for advice.
- KSKara Swisher
And you don't want to answer every one?
- SGScott Galloway
I just can't. I want to and I can't. And so I'm working with this company and g- giving them permission to scan absolutely everything I've done, such that they get an automatic response, and if they want, they can ask this AI to give them an answer in my voice. And, uh, that's coming. And, uh-
- KSKara Swisher
Do you vet it? How do you... What if it says, like, bad things?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, well, first off, I mean, I, I think people have to recognize, all right, it, it is AI (laughs) and there, there'll be problems. But they do... I'm hoping... We do a pretty good job of, uh, QA, and we spend a lot of time asking questions, and we've been tweaking this, you know, "I would never say this. What happened?" Um, or, you know, "It's okay to say I don't know," what have you. But, uh, but the bottom line is I've given them permission and I want to... Uh, so that's fine, but, but people, if they don't give permission, I don't think should have anything crawled or anything mimicked about them. In addition, I think it's really... I think there's a big opportunity for the creative community to kind of extract, uh, n- I don't want to say their pound of flesh, but, uh, the royalty they're, they're entitled to. There's just no reason. If, if you... One of my favorite songs, uh, Someone I, That I Used to Know, the singer wanted to use a lot of samples, so he preemptively paid out royalties.... to avoid copyright disputes. That's the way it should be. And, uh, this has been a big deal in the specialty retail community where, you know, companies ranging from Pottery Barn to whoever, or Restoration Hardware, go and essentially go to artisans and quote unquote say their work was inspired by them. Uh, what is the line between copying something when you owe people money? Because the best economic... Look, the, their, their two best economic business models in history are one, tapping into people, the flaw in their instincts, right? I couldn't find sugary foods, so we can mass produce a sugar bomb in the form of cereal, give it to people, they don't know when to stop. Oh, only 40% of men have reproduced, lack of mating opportunities, create porn. Oh, okay great. Uh, people, uh, are dying for social connection, are so freaked out about being shamed, create algorithms that make them feel bad about themselves so they have to come back every two minutes to see what someone commented on. Okay, Instagram. The other second-best business model hands down... First is tapping into an instinctual flaw, the second-best business model is IP theft. The Americans in the 18th and 19th centuries stole British and European textile manufacturing technology, and built, built manufacturing plants up and down the Eastern seaboard based on European IP. Even stole some artisans, kidnapped some artisans, and the most descendant economy over the last 30 years, their core competence is really elegant IP theft. Whether it's letting Tesla come in and manufacture and then propping up BYD. Whether it's letting in Google long enough to figure out their algorithm and then propping up Baidu. So IP theft is the ultimate business model. And what do you have with Meta and AI? You have one, the comp- companies are able to tap into our, uh, the flaws in our instincts. And two, uh, massive... And Trump just signaled we're gonna let them engage in massive IP theft, so-
- KSKara Swisher
Right. He said it wasn't, it wasn't a big deal. Now your book is coming out. You remember they did my book and they made those porny weird versions of me, and books of mine. They're still there, they haven't been able to take a lot of them down. Your book is coming out. They're gonna try to rip it off. There'll probably be a workbook for your book, you know, the man, you know, uh, uh, a man workbook or something that isn't yours. Do you have any... I mean, you'll spend your time playing whack-a-mole with these people. That's my feeling, is that they don't, there's no prote- you have copyright protection but t- in order to enforce it is another story.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm not as worried about that stuff. There's, there's purposeful leakage, right? You want a certain amount of-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
It's like, uh, you know, Netflix wants you to sh- share a certain number of the passwords, right?
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Nothing more. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And you want a certain amount of mimicry or IP theft or what have you. But what I'm more worried about is that at some point AI can say, "Take, uh, my book, Notes on Being a Man, and give it to me in 60 pages, not 400." And they give it to you in 60 pages, and you don't get compensated. Neither me-
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
... nor my agent, nor my-
- KSKara Swisher
You should put that one out though. You should put out a 60-page version.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I mean, it's an interesting idea but I think there's something to forcing people (laughs) to do the work.
- KSKara Swisher
I always thought, I always was like, "I wish I could do a 20-page, 60-page, 100-page version of my books." I used to say that and publishers used to like vomit on the floor whenever I'd say that many years ago. Um, anyway, we'll see what goes with this. Uh, to- good for you Tony Robbins, but everyone's gonna face this issue, everyone who has enough material out there. People like me and Scott, Tony Robbins.
- 33:13 – 43:16
Trump Doesn’t Want xAI to Have Government Contracts
- KSKara Swisher
There's a lot of people with lots and lots of material. Um, anyway lastly, President Trump doesn't want the federal government agencies to contract with Elon Musk's x.AI. What a surprise, according to White House Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt. However, Trump took to social media saying he's not trying to destroy Musk's companies, saying, "Everyone is stating that I will destroy Elon's companies by taking away some, if not all, of the large-dale subsidies he receives from the US government. This is not so. I want Elon and all of our businesses within our country to thrive, in fact thrive like never be- fore." Elon was not comforted. He responded like, "These aren't subsidies. I'm providing them with good products for cheap prices." Um, uh, uh, you know, he's gonna continue to do this and then Elon's gonna continue to whack at him I assume, uh, throughout the rest of the term. Any thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
I'm curious what you think here, Kara. I mean, if you really, if you look back, did, did Musk start this whole Epstein thing?
- KSKara Swisher
Yes. Yes.
- SGScott Galloway
He's the first one that said-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes. Remember w-
- SGScott Galloway
... Trump's in the Epstein files.
- KSKara Swisher
... remember when I said he's gonna keep at it 'cause he's obsessed with this topic? When he, when he took it down? First he said it... I think yes, no. Elon, uh, Elon started this, absolutely started it, and then insinuated Bannon if you remember, and they took down the Trump one and I remember at the time I said, "No, no, he's gonna put it back up 'cause he, this is sticks in his craw, this Epstein stuff." Yeah, he did. He did start it.
- SGScott Galloway
It feels like SpaceX right now is bigger than our government. And that is... I, I think he would love... I think Trump wouldn't, and I wouldn't put it past him, he's willing to go after companies asymmetrically, would cancel contracts, and I think the Defense Department's come back and said, "SpaceX is our, um, program." I mean, uh, the, the media is so obsessed with itself, it can't stop covering Paramount. Uh, uh, uh, you know, whatever it is, um, Yellowstone, it, it's relatively... Colbert. I'm sorry folks, it's relatively unimportant. (laughs) The fact that we have one company that controls almost all of the low-orbit (laughs) satellites, that is much more important. That is where the FTC should be focused. So this stuff is, uh, I find we're kinda, we're, we're focused on the wrong things, and the fact that, that Musk... I mean, think about this. Musk got the president, you could argue, played a big role in his election. Musk is now playing a big role in what may be the dethroning of the president. Musk is now critical to our infrastructure, and in some ways bigger than the Defense Department or the Defense Department had... If the Defense Department wants to bring home astronauts from the International Space Station, they have to call Elon, right? (laughs) If they want communications battlefield technology to work really well, they have to call Elon. I mean, this is, we are, there are certain individuals who are becoming... Thomas Friedman said this, and it was insightful, uh, or appreciate at the time when he said that you have the rise of the super, supra-nation state individual. And he was using an example of Bill Gates is now more powerful than most nations-And I wonder if, in many ways, this is kind of showing that Elon Musk... At first, I thought Trump's much more powerful than Elon. But basically, I think Elon, if he keeps at it, I don't know if he's gonna take the president down, but he's gonna severely diminish his, his power or distract him.
- KSKara Swisher
He's not a good enemy to have. Uh, remember when I said, it's not like, you know, fighting with Omarosa or Michael Cohen? This guy has-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... a set. Well, I mean, he has a set.
- SGScott Galloway
He's not Michael Avenatti.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. You know, he has-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... a set, and he has money. He's got means. He's, he also... When he apologized and everybody was like, "There, it's over," I'm like, "Mm-mm-mm-mm-mm-mm, not this guy, not this guy." And what, what'll be interesting to see is if he can s- strike a side deal, because a lot of his acolytes have stayed in Washington and are trying to make deals with the Trump Administration. I suspect he will reach out to someone. I mean, he was, I think, close to J.D. Vance, and even though J.D. Vance is such a, like a suck up to Trump, he's gotta, I've gotta, I'll, I'm really interested in what's actually going behind the scenes with Vance and the rest of them, because they're all preparing for a post-Trump world, right? At this point. And so they've gotta figure out, they cannot make an enemy of Elon, for example, going forward. Um, even if it angers Trump, they've gotta do it in this sort of subtle, quiet way. So the jockeying behind the scenes has gotta be fascinating. Like, this is just my guess. I'm not... I'm completely making it up, but if I were Vance or any Republican, I would start to figure out what the world post-Trump looks like, because he's obviously decaying in real time. Some of these pictures of him, he looks like really unhealthy. But that's okay, he can go on forever like that. Um, I think he's been unhealthy his whole life. But I, I'm really interested in what... I'd love to know what Vance is actually thinking versus what he says in public, which is obsequ- obsequious to Trump, 'cause he's gotta... He's got more ties with these guys than Trump certainly did, and he was sort of the person who introduced them to Trump in a... You know what I mean? Like, that was their link. So, it'd be interesting to be with Thiel and Vance and Musk and those people, figure out what they're up to.
- SGScott Galloway
I think they're all trying to cosplay the president, and that is th- th- Americans got so sick of this politically correct, starched, whitewashed, you know, vanilla speak, that then this guy came along and s- and started, like, mocking the disabled or calling people whore face. And as offensive as it was, a lot of America found it refreshing, and they thought, "Oh my God, for the first time, someone's speaking honestly. Like that's them, they're actually speaking who they are." And, but that cruelty and that coarseness, I think all of these guys... Ted Cruz or J.D. Vance, they never used to say the kind of shit they're saying now, 'cause they're all cosplaying him, and what I think they fail to realize is that the cadence of presidential cycles is we always go for someone different. We go way different. We're like, "Okay, we tried that for four, eight years. Now we are ready for something..." I mean, Trump just couldn't have been more different than Obama, and, you know, Obama couldn't have been much more different than Bush. And I think the future, and we've been talking about this with various, uh, Democrats, I think a guy like James, uh, Talarico or Mayor Pete-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... who talks about family.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Um...
- KSKara Swisher
And has a cool beard. Do you like his rocking beard?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but I, I think Mayor Pete's... I had Ezra Klein on today, and he made a great point. I think Mayor Pete, to a certain extent, kind of is this great ad for why America works, right? Here's a guy who c- who couldn't have been public about his family, and instead talks about how wonderful and meaningful it is to have a healthy relationship and kids. And it's sort of like, you hear Mayor Pete talk about it, and you're like, "Wow, progressive America works." It, it means something for people, and he can talk about it. When James Talarico talks about his faith and loving thy neighbor, I mean, he's going... Th- they... I think the next president is literally gonna be the 180 of Trump. I think he's gonna be kind, uh, kind, or she, kind, thoughtful-
- KSKara Swisher
Probably a he.
- SGScott Galloway
(coughs)
- KSKara Swisher
Oh Scott, you're sick.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I know. It's so weird, right? I mean, I almost-
- KSKara Swisher
I'm gonna bring you some balm.
- SGScott Galloway
There you go.
- KSKara Swisher
And I'll... Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, I just want a big-
- 43:16 – 50:37
Wins and Fails
- KSKara Swisher
All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, we're gonna do some wins and fails. I guess I'll go first.
- SGScott Galloway
Okay.
- KSKara Swisher
Fail. RFK Jr. Again, he's quietly, like, wrecking everything. He's planning to remove all 16 members of a cancer screening and HIV medication task force because he believes they're too woke. He is a m- I, I say this again and again. He's killing people. He's going to kill people. I get the need for change in the healthcare area. I'm doing a whole docuseries on it. I understand this. But the way he's going about it is so political and so nothing to do with science. It's, he, he's just ... And because Trump is so loud with all this Epstein stuff, it, you're not paying attention to this guy. And I, I just think we need to really focus in on the stuff he's doing to wreck science. I have talked to so many scientists. I've gone to so many great places. And they're all, like, doing amazing work and are in fear of getting cut. It's ridiculous. I was in one lab this week in, in Stanford, and it's this incredible breakthrough. And I'm not gonna go into it, but it's this incredible breakthrough. And it, this lab was run by, I, uh, by, it was so full of really amazing people here from other countries. It was also Americans, native-born Americans. It was so important that this group of people were here, and it's similar, like Stanford getting funded, to do something amazing. And so, what RFK Jr. is doing is killing people and, and, and setting back important, um, research, uh, for, for even five years is too much, like, at all. Um, and for a win, I, I, I do feel that, like, there is a pushback. And I loved what Tre- what, what, what the South Park guys did. I just... And not just 'cause I liked it. It was funny. It was actually funny. It had a lot of resonance. I think they appropriately pushed back. And you have to like them even if you don't agree with them on stuff. And I thought that was just one of the biggest baller moves of all time to do that. I just thought it was (laughs) like, "Good for you." And it had to have been approved by, I'm assuming, Skydance knew of it or at least had some knowledge of it. And the executives who let it through, um, who want to stay there, I think, at, at, um, Paramount, uh, whether they get le- let go because of that, I don't think they will. I think they, they hit a, they hit the target perfectly. And Trump richly deserved and so did Paramount all the attacks they did. So kudos to them. It's kind of a basic one, but kudos to them.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, I like it. Um, I, I don't have a fail. I have two wins. My first win is the... I, I just didn't... I... Was not on my radar screen. Uh, my win is the great city of Chicago. Um, about three million people, third-largest in the US. I haven't been there in a while. Uh, GDP over almost 800 billion. Um, headquarters to United Airlines, McDonald's, Walgreens. Great universities, University of Chicago, Northwestern University, uh, UIC DePauw, Loyola, all nationally ranked. Um, doing a really... I spoke at this quantum event. I don't know why they're going all in on quantum, but they are. Obviously, tremendous center for c- uh, architecture and culture, music and the arts. Parks, nature, a great food scene.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, obviously love of sports. Uh, I just really, um... In terms of recognition, it was ranked the number one big city in the US by Condé Nast Traveler-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... and frequently ranked among the top 20 global city. I just hadn't thought about going to Chicago, and my son said he wanted to go to Chang Choy or Chicago, so I said, "Okay, we're going to Chicago." Um, but I really, I really enjoyed it and I, I, I don't, I don't think it gets, I don't think it gets the attention it deserves. And also, the governance there is pretty, is clearly pretty good because it feels like the quality of life. Uh, I have a close friend, my closest friend since the fourth grade, my friend Adam Markman.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And he could live anywhere, um, and chooses to live in Chicago. And he says, "It's basically New York for a lot less money."
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
"And my quality of life is really nice here."
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Cold. That's the only thing.
- SGScott Galloway
"And I like the people. I like the people. I like the food." So anyways, I was just very... I kind of came away from Chicago-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, I do like Chi-Town. I love Chicago so much.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. Anyways-
- KSKara Swisher
It's one of my favorites.
- SGScott Galloway
... and then my, my other win is I just think the, whoever the CMO or the marketing or the ad agency for Astronomer is, uh, that was the marketing move literally of, of, uh, of the year.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And it's also launched Gwyneth Paltrow's run for Congress where she's gonna outlaw taxes and pantsuits. Um, so-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... I think this is-
- KSKara Swisher
Step off of her-
- SGScott Galloway
Come on. It's such late-stage capitalism.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh my God.
- SGScott Galloway
It's literally like-
- KSKara Swisher
But you know what? Like, you have all kinds of friends who sell supplements and all kinds of nonsense-
- SGScott Galloway
No, we don't.
- KSKara Swisher
... and you don't, like, attack them in similar ways.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, yeah. Anyways, it's, it's, uh... She's like a Bond villain who runs a yoga studio (laughs) .
Episode duration: 50:37
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