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Alex Pretti Shooting: "This is a Turning Point" | Pivot

Kara and Scott jump on for an emergency episode in the aftermath of the Alex Pretti shooting in Minneapolis. They break down how cellphone video from the scene contradicts the narrative pushed by the Trump administration, the political reaction in Washington, and why a national economic strike — not just protests — may be the most effective response. #pivot #podcast #karaswisher #scottgalloway #alexpretti #minneapolis #ice #trump #bovino #apple #openai #economicstrike Producers: Lara Naaman Zoë Marcus Video Editor: Jim Mackil Vox Media's Executive Producer of Podcasts: Nishat Kurwa Subscribe to Pivot on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pivot/id1073226719 Subscribe to Pivot on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4MU3RFGELZxPT9XHVwTNPR Follow us on Instagram and Threads at: https://www.instagram.com/pivotpodcastofficial/ Follow us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@PIVOTPODCAST

Kara SwisherhostScott Gallowayhost
Jan 25, 202627mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:000:06

    Intro

    1. KS

      [upbeat music]

  2. 0:060:43

    Emergency pod: federal agents kill Alex Pretti in Minneapolis

    1. KS

      Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

    2. SG

      And I'm Scott Galloway.

    3. KS

      Uh, this is an emergency pod. We do these from time to time with news, especially if it's breaking, and obviously, what's happened over the weekend in Minnesota has been heinous in many ways, uh, in all ways, actually. Um, so we had to jump on here to talk about the situation. Tensions are exploding in reaction to federal agents shooting and killing thirty-seven-year-old ICU nurse, Alex, uh, Pretti, in Minneapolis on Saturday. This is the second fatal shooting by federal agents this month, with Governor Tim Walz calling for Trump to halt ICE operations in the state.

  3. 0:431:42

    Administration narrative vs. widely shared video evidence (CNN clip)

    1. KS

      Meanwhile, Trump administration, uh... the Trump administration is trying to cast blame on the victim and local Democratic lawmakers. Border Control Command, Gregory Bovino, appeared on CNN's State of the Union with Dana Bash earlier, and here's what that tiny, horrible man had to say.

    2. SP

      All of the video that we have seen shows him documenting it with his cell phone, which is a lawful thing to do, and the only time he seemed to interact with law enforcement is when they went after him, when he was trying to help an individual who law enforcement pushed down. So where do you have the evidence to show that he was trying to impede that, uh, that law enforcement operation?

    3. SP

      Sure, Dana. First, he was there in the scene. He was in the scene actively impeding and assaulting law enforcement to the point-

    4. SP

      But that's not illegal.

    5. SP

      Here's a-

    6. SP

      He wasn't, he wasn't-

    7. SP

      Dana-

    8. SP

      ... impeding it. He was filming it, which is a legal thing to do in the United States of America.

    9. SP

      Uh, Dana, let's, let's don't freeze frame adjudicate this now.

  4. 1:422:12

    Pam Bondi’s demands: welfare data, voter rolls, sanctuary policies

    1. KS

      Let's freeze frame adjudicate it. Everyone saw it from a hundred different angles. There was video everywhere, and, uh, this small, little Himmler wannabe doesn't seem to understand that. Attorney General Pam Bondi gave Tim Walz three conditions to, quote, "Restore the rule of law." She wants him to hand over the info about the state's welfare programs, grant access to state voter rolls, and repeal sanctuary policies. Let's focus on the middle one, which we will. They want these voter rolls, uh, because of the midterm elections. Let's talk about the Democratic response. Democrats are obviously

  5. 2:122:42

    Democratic responses: shutdown threats, ICE funding, impeachment talk

    1. KS

      in an uproar, and AOC and others calling for Senate Democrats to block ICE spending this week. Democrats would have to shut down a large portion of the government in order to do that. They seem willing to do so. Representative Robin Kelly of Illinois is asking colleagues to sign, uh, onto her articles of impeachment against DHS Secretary Kristi Noem. Meanwhile, Megyn Kelly appeared to agree that ICE should get out of Minnesota, but she was just being awful. She tweeted: @realDonaldTrump should pull ICE out of Minnesota today and announced there will be no more immigration enforcement in Minnesota at all. All illegals in the US are encouraged

  6. 2:423:26

    White House ‘Melania’ screening and corporate/tech leaders’ silence

    1. KS

      to move there. If any illegal is found outside of Minnesota and gets deported, they will never apply for re-entry. She is a cruel and s- tireless termagant. Uh, hours after this young man was killed, uh, Trump and Melania went ahead with a previously scheduled screening of her new documentary, Melania, at the White House. Guests included Tim Cook, along with AMD CEO Lisa Su, the CEO of Zoom, uh, and Mike Tyson and Tony Robbins. Strange group of people, but a lot of tech CEOs. Also, Andy Jassy, the CEO of Amazon. In any case, uh, a, a really terrible, uh, day for the United States of America. Scott, your thoughts?

    2. SG

      [inhaling]

  7. 3:266:25

    Scott’s breakdown: First/Second Amendment violations and agent behavior

    1. SG

      Well, typically, you'd have some-- You'd wanna de-escalate and say, "Let's wait till there's a full investigation," but unfortunately, the institutions conducting these investigations now are no longer trusted, and with good reason. The American public doesn't believe that these investigations will be, be fair investigations, so you have to turn to the, you know, the kind of the frame adjudication. And what the frame shows is that, one, this individual was clearly exercising just free speech. Uh, all free speech is not exempt. You know, if you incite violence, you-- that's not free speech, but it, it's difficult to see how in any way this individual was inciting violence. He was just filming what was happening. He moved to help protect somebody or comfort them after they had been knocked down. Uh, so his First Amendment rights were clearly violated. Two, the Second Amendment is the right to bear arms. He was carrying a weapon, which he had a legal license, um, for carry for. Uh, the gun was re-removed from him. He did not take out the gun. He did not wave it at anybody. It was in his waistband. It was taken out, and then, uh... So his First and Second Amendment rights [chuckles] were violated in about fifteen seconds. And then a couple of things that I noticed that were even more disturbing were, one, when a gunshot goes off, these, quote, unquote, "trained federal agents" scattered. You-- When your gun goes off, you're supposed to make sure the person you think is firing the gun, you look for their hands, you look for the gun. They didn't have none of that. They scattered, and Representative Seth Moulton, who's a veteran, and I believe a Marine who served in, I believe it was Iraq, said that, "If this had happened in the middle of a combat zone, and a, a combatant, enemy combatant, who had been disarmed, was treated this way, the officers and the enlisted men involved in that murder would be court-martialed." So the rules of engagement are now more reckless and more violent in the suburbs of Minneapolis than they are in Mogadishu during a war. So this has gone, um, so far, uh, it, it-- and this notion that this has anything to do with the Constitution, everyone is now ignoring the Constitution. The other th- word that comes to my mind is cowardice, and that is Trump and Secretary Noem are perpetrating violence under the auspices that it has something to do with immigration. They want a third party that will take the blame or the, be the shock absorber for this depravity, and that is an agency full of masked secret police.... I mean, they're not even taking responsibility for this violence. They're trying to keep it at arm's length.

    2. KS

      No, they said the victims were the ICE officers. That's what Gregory Bovino said to Dana Bash, who did a terrific job trying to m- m- take-- explain to him why he was lying, [chuckles] essentially. But go ahead.

    3. SG

      What are your, what are your thoughts on this, Kara?

  8. 6:258:07

    Kara’s reaction: ‘evil and incompetent,’ and claims of deliberate provocation

    1. KS

      Uh, I just-- Scott, it's, uh... This is repulsive and in every way, on, on, on every aspect of it, the-- what, what had happened there. I mean, one, at one point, I called these people incompetent, and everyone's like: "No, they're evil." Inc- evil is incompetent. They're, they're both evil and incompetent. Um, and I don't throw around those things. I don't throw around Nazi terms very easily, but this is-

    2. SG

      Mm-hmm

    3. KS

      ... that's what it looks-- that's what it is, and especially-- even the outfit, as Greg, uh, as, uh, Governor Newsom pointed out with Greg Bovino, who is completely incompetent and also evil. And I don't use those terms lightly. I really don't. And I find when you, when you throw them about... But this man was using a phone, a phone, to ta- to take pictures, and that's what he's allowed to do.

    4. SG

      Yeah.

    5. KS

      He was peaceful. He was leaning down to help a woman who was shoved down by police, who was doing nothing but exercising her right. They kept calling it a, a-- Today, Todd Blanche, another terrible person in the administration, uh, and a pedophile protector, let's just note that, um, was, uh, saying, uh, that, that he was-- it was a riot. It wasn't by any means a riot. They were blaming the police of Minnesota, and I just interviewed the mayor of, of, of Minneapolis. They have six hundred officers. There's three thousand ICE, uh... there's three thousand ICE, uh, members. They can't protect them, especially when they're behaving like thugs and attacking the citizens. They're there to protect the citizens, not the ICE, not the ICE force, which is enormous, and you can't do that, and they are trying to create violence. It's very obvious what they're trying to do. And then laying the blame on-- they, th- there's-- literally, there, there's nothing... I, I don't even believe we're even arguing that this guy did anything. He didn't. And to-- and everyone can see

  9. 8:0711:19

    ‘We see you’: the power of ubiquitous video and citizen documentation

    1. KS

      it, and what was really astonishing to me was all the angles and the people and the citizens there putting themselves in harm's way to take these pictures, right?

    2. SG

      Mm-hmm.

    3. KS

      This woman in the pink jacket. There's a woman in a car. There's, there's every angle of this thing.

    4. SG

      Yeah.

    5. KS

      There's a woman in a car straight on. There's one across the street. There's one in front of him. There's one on the other side. These people don't understand, we see you. We see what you're doing. It is not... A- and to try to look at it any other way, and especially 'cause he was on the ground, you can absolutely see what happened, and then the guy pulls out the gun and shoots him for no reason! There's-- And one of the things which was a- astonishing, one of the people taking the pictures said: "What did you just do? What did you just do?" And that is the que- what in the... why in the world would you do that? There were six, seven people on this guy, and it's... I- I have to tell you one thing, the power of digital is really strong. You see-- people see it. Like, I, I don't understand why these people don't think cell phones exist in this world. The second part is the silence from our business community, the silence from these people. They went to the White House last night. Could they just beg off? Like, to go to the Melania screening, which nobody wants to see. Could they say something publicly? Like, I, I, I just-- the, the silence of our business people, especially the tech people, and then men, a- a- and many people, like Bill Ackman, as usual, 'cause he can't shut his diarrhea mouth, c- could not help but blame everybody but who shot this man, which were these officers. Um, obviously, Minnesota has moved this time because they learned from the first, and I qu- this is a murder, is what this is. They learned from the first one that they tried to take evidence. They scattered, as you said. You can't leave the scene of, of an, um, that, some-- a shooting like that, a, a fatal shooting. And then the last thing I would say is, the citizens of Minnesota... I'm wearing a, m- a Minnesota Star Tribune. I, I have to say, the press is doing a great job there, the Minnesota Star Tribune and others. These are citizens that are not gonna take this shit, and, uh, I, I know you call for leaders, but we are the leaders, right? The citizens are the leaders, not our politicians. I will say, the Democrats had-

    6. SG

      Mm-hmm

    7. KS

      ... especially AOC, especially, uh, you know, all of them were very strong about what was going on. The Minnesota [lips smack] people were actually quite under control over what's happening. Governor Walz, I thought, conducted himself really well.

    8. SG

      Mm-hmm.

    9. KS

      Uh, the police officers, uh, of the state of, in Minnesota are horrified. You can see that, and they conducted themselves really... And the only people conducting themselves like the thugs and fascists they are, are the Trump administration, and they will not outlive- they w- the, the shame will outlive them, of what they've done, and they don't care. So that's the only problem here.

    10. SG

      Yeah, and especially last week, there was a lot of talk about... I thought, "How, how, how can I take my time here and make it effective?" So I spent a lot of time when I was on these panels talking about how the Islamic Republic is executing people in the street, and my colleague, Catherine Dillon, reminded me. She said, "Scott, you realize that our government is executing people on the streets of Minneapolis right now," which was a very puncturing point.

    11. KS

      Yeah.

  10. 11:1913:24

    From outrage to strategy: organizing beyond protests (Snyder/Richardson)

    1. SG

      And just to, if it's okay with you, move to potential ideas-

    2. KS

      Sure, please do

    3. SG

      ... around how to counter ICE. Um, Timothy Snyder, I always, I always go to his feed and to Heather Cox Richardson to try and find some-

    4. KS

      Amazing stuff-

    5. SG

      ... clarity -

    6. KS

      from them. Yeah, go ahead

    7. SG

      ... around this, and Timothy said something really powerful. He said: "If you're waiting..." And this is my thought. I'm always, uh, kind of waiting for a Democratic Jesus to pop up and lead us, like a Mandela, to the Promised Land, and typically, real movement doesn't happen from political parties. It happens from people-

    8. KS

      Absolutely

    9. SG

      ... or citizens. And protest is really powerful. It's very symbolic, but in this instance, I think it's actually quite... I don't want to say it's not effective, but I don't think the administration cares. I don't think that's gonna move the needle in the short run. It may in the medium and the long run. I think what-... Governor Walz and some, some politicians have said is more powerful, and that is start making a list, quite frankly, and very publicly saying that the statute of limitations on murder is never, and in exactly two years and eleven months, we're coming for you. I think we have to create new incentives here. And then something I'm spending a lot of time thinking about and trying to get some politicians on board with and some public figures is the following: if you, if you wanna look at the fastest political movement in history, it was actually about exactly six years ago, and that was 2020, when the GDP went down thirty-one percent because of COVID. We had the greatest political movement in history in terms of actual move to action. And my fear is that every few years, we protest, we make signs, we chant, we gather, it feels good, it looks great on CNN, and then nothing happens. If you wanna understand real power and the difference between being right and being effective, stop watching protests and start watching, uh, gross domestic pr- product, specifically GDP.

  11. 13:2416:08

    Scott’s proposal: an ‘economic strike’ to pressure Trump via markets

    1. SG

      Uh, Trump does not respond to outrage; he responds to markets. And that's not cynicism, it's mechanics. I'm not talking about a labor strike. This isn't unions, picket lines, or collective bargaining. I'm talking about something quieter, far more unsettling to the system, and that is an economic strike, a short-term, coordinated withdrawal from spending and maybe work. No marching, no slogans, um, just less. And something we forget-

    2. KS

      Well, they did that. They did that in Minnesota. They had a day the businesses closed for.

    3. SG

      It can't be a day. A day is annoyance. It needs to be a week or a month, and it needs to be national. The, the US economy is twenty-seven trillion, that's seventy-four billion a day, and here's our power, Kara. Our economy is seventy percent consumer-driven. Uh, consumers actually have more power, not in signs or in guns or even in their vote right now, they have it in the power of the purse, in that a very small change in behavior could have an enormous effect. And that is, [exhales] uh, nothing in modern hist- [clears throat] American history moves policy faster. Not marches, not speeches, just math. And then i- if you think about what you could do here, if wealthy households took their spending down ten percent, and middle class and lower income neig- uh, households, which have a difficult time reducing their spend, took it down five percent, you would take GDP negative almost overnight. And then, [exhales] i- it's hard because it requires coordination. It's risky, especially for people living paycheck to paycheck, but that's exactly why it works, and that is power fe- fears withdrawal more than resistance, because resistance is noisy, but withdrawal is expensive. And it's, it's a question around what actually works, and the history and the data, I believe, are not ambiguous. When nothing moves, uh, everyone listens, and that's not ideology, it's economics, in that you don't need permission to opt out. And in a, in a symptom-- and in a system, capitalism built entirely on participation, the most radical act in capitalism isn't protest, it's non-participation. If you wanted the fastest blue line path, and there might even be a simpler way... I believe if you could convince America, the entire economy now is built on AI. If you could convince a bunch of Americans to cancel their ChatGPT or OpenAI accounts, and all of a sudden, [chuckles] OpenAI had to announce that their subscriptions had fallen off a cliff, that would ripple into Nvidia, that would ripple into Microsoft, and these are the people that Trump cares about, and this is what the S&P, this is what the economy cares about.

  12. 16:0818:08

    Debate: protests vs. market pressure; role of media and ‘truthful, not neutral’ coverage

    1. KS

      I, I see this point. I don't, I don't agree with you about protests. I think they do. They-- It's all part of the same package. It's an aggressive media who follows this-

    2. SG

      Yep

    3. KS

      ... and reports on things. It is these protests, 'cause I do think people putting their l- their lives on the line in the street matters. I think it does. It has-

    4. SG

      I don't mean to diminish it.

    5. KS

      Right.

    6. SG

      I worry it's more cinematic than effective-

    7. KS

      But-

    8. SG

      - 'cause I don't think the Trump administration cares.

    9. KS

      I think it's different in this new environment of video everywhere.

    10. SG

      Yep.

    11. KS

      I do think it is effective.

    12. SG

      Yep.

    13. KS

      And I do think it-

    14. SG

      Definitely from a policing and an accountability standpoint.

    15. KS

      Correct, and it changes people's minds, 'cause people are... I mean, uh, people are, are-- It's horrifying. Ev- and everyone-

    16. SG

      Yeah, agreed

    17. KS

      ... we can see you. "We see you," is a really powerful thing. I think the media has to step up, and there-- everyone, folks, there's a reason these billionaires, uh, right-wingers need to own this stuff, 'cause they're trying to control the message. Absolutely, no question. They're trying to even hand it... Um, I was told by someone, uh, uh, at CBS, they're like: "You could watch this, and if you were pro-MAGA, you'd like it, and if you were anti-MAGA, you'd like it, and that's how we want it to be." That's a terrible thing to, to try to do. There is... Truthful, not neutral, is the way, um-

    18. SG

      Yeah

    19. KS

      ... the press should be acting right now. Uh, I thought, uh, I think, I think a lot of them have been woken up into this in a much more instead of a, "Well, what is your thoughts here, Scott Fucking Jennings?"

    20. SG

      Right.

    21. KS

      Like, that's enough. That's enough of that, seriously. Um, there's no thoughts here about shooting someone, and there's no-- I, I was listening, uh... I often listen to comics during [chuckles] times like this, 'cause I think they have the-- they ha- they get to the heart of it in a really effective way. And Josh, uh, Johnson, who I've interviewed, is an amazing young comic.

    22. SG

      Mm-hmm.

    23. KS

      And he said... Uh, I, I-

    24. SG

      Yeah, I saw him

    25. KS

      ... I sent this to you. It was-- This is an argument about legality versus morality.

    26. SG

      Yeah.

    27. KS

      Um, and if you, if y- the idea that Todd Blanche was sitting there saying, "Well, it was a riot. Well, he, you know, he was resisting." If we get into arguments with these people about what we can see with our eyes-... it is, it, we lose, right? Because they're gonna find some reason that this young man deserved to get shot, or the-

  13. 18:0821:33

    Tech accountability and consumer leverage: ‘you can’t shame them’

    1. SG

      Mm-hmm

    2. KS

      ... or Renee Good deserved it 'cause she was mouthy, like, 'cause she wouldn't move her car. Um, they try to twist everything, and so you're not gonna win on, uh, in an, in a face-to-face argument with these people. You're gonna win by marching, I agree, and economic resistance is critical here. Um, the problem was with a lot of people, with Tim Cook being at the White House... And by the way, Tim, I like you very much, but Steve Jobs would be ashamed of you. I know he would be ashamed of you. It's, it's a grotesque way to end what has been a very successful, uh, career as a CEO. You could have walked away. You could have walked away. Shareholders are not everything. The Apple brand stands for more. So a lot of people wanted to g- give up their iPhones, like, "I'm gonna give up..." Let me just tell you, [chuckles] the founder of Google is dating a MAGA influencer and is quite right-wing now. So there's nowhere to go, unfortunately, and that's the problem, is we have been held captive by these men boys who are now deciding they wanna dabble in fascism or at least turn a blind eye to it. And so I, I... Part of me is like, what do you do here, right? What do you- w- what, what-

    3. SG

      But, uh, w- w- what I'm suggesting is, and again, I've struggled with this my whole life, the difference between being right and being effective, and we're angry, and I get it. Protesting is powerful. Uh, promising them that w- there will be an accountability, and I've said this: I think there should be something equivalent to the Nuremberg trials-

    4. KS

      I agree

    5. SG

      ... after this is all over.

    6. KS

      I agree.

    7. SG

      And to make it clear that once we're back in power, which we will be, this is going to happen, and the statute of limitations on murder is-

    8. KS

      Zero

    9. SG

      ... never.

    10. KS

      Yeah, never.

    11. SG

      However, it's the boring shit that moves the needle, and here's something really boring that would stop this: If we could convince half of Americans who are planning to buy an iPhone in the next 60 days to not buy it, just put it off, and we could get 10% of existing ChatGPT subscribers to cancel their subscription, this ends.

    12. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    13. SG

      These are the people that he cares about, and this is about the market. Look at the only time he's blinked, when the Japanese bond market started taking our 10-year yields up and when tariffs took the markets down. This is how he responds. It's not cinematic. It's not romantic. It's not gonna be written up in great history novels. But if you could figure out a way to basically kick a small number of companies related to the tech economy that are... account for 40% of the S&P right now and who are the people he cares about. If, if all of a sudden, if you took all of your money out of any JPMorgan-affiliated bank and transferred it to a local regional bank, if you canceled all of your streaming media platforms, if you canceled OpenAI and Anthropic, and you said, "I am not upgrading my Apple phone," and there was a real movement-

    14. KS

      Yeah

    15. SG

      ... that registered, and they had to disclose it in their earnings calls, this shit would come to an end pronto.

    16. KS

      Yeah, yeah, it's an interes- I- they have played along with this Trump stuff for a very long time, much farther than-

    17. SG

      'Cause you're right. They're all about shareholder... They'd- we can't shame them. You cannot-

    18. KS

      Yeah

    19. SG

      ... shame them.

    20. KS

      Yeah, yeah.

    21. SG

      The ghost of Steve Jobs is not gonna shame them.

    22. KS

      I, I agree-

    23. SG

      The only thing these people care about-

    24. KS

      I agree. Just wanna point that out. Yeah

    25. SG

      ... the only thing these people care about is whether or not their stock goes down.

    26. KS

      Yeah.

    27. SG

      That's it, and if their stock goes down, they're gonna stop. They're not only gonna stop showing up to Melania documentaries and giving him inscribed hard disk drives, they're gonna finally find their testicles and come out and speak out against this guy and call him and say, "You need to, you need to call this shit off." And the S&P is gonna go down, and then everyone's gonna have their hair on fire.

  14. 21:3323:50

    Political cowardice and the GOP: ‘it takes 20 senators’

    1. KS

      Well, one of the things I've noticed is really interesting. I, I, I... This is the last thing I'm talking about. The, the polling is disastrous on this for Trump. His polling is disastrous. Why haven't Republicans found their ja- Like, se- like, from a m- numbers point of view, right? Like, away from all of it, if you wanna argue, whatever you wanna do, and to shame yourself and your children, by the way. Um, your, your, uh, by the way, there are several children of some of these people that are like, "Call me. I know all about my fucking asshole dad, and I will talk to the press," by the way, which I think is delicious. Um, but w- what, what... The polling is so obvious here. What? Why? It's so, like, in the direction that is not the way these Republicans wanna go.

    2. SG

      But there's... I, I mean, if you really want to distill it down, and you bring... The cowardice here, there are 47 Democratic senators. If 20 individuals, 20, uh, 20 Republican senators marched up to his office and said, "You either stop this shit now, or we vote yes on the impeachment" that they will propose. They could do it behind the scenes. It takes 20 of them, 20 of the 53, and they've decided that those 20 of 355 million Americans, the vast majority who are really rattled by this, can't find the backbone to get together and march up to the White House behind the scenes and say, "Stop this now. Stop it now!" And one of the most disappointing things about all of this is that clearly, these senators, quite frankly, feel they have public support for not doing anything.

    3. KS

      Mm-hmm. Or they feel-

    4. SG

      Because-

    5. KS

      ... they don't, but they do

    6. SG

      ... all you would need, all you would need is 20 of them-

    7. KS

      Mm

    8. SG

      ... to go to the White House and said, "If this isn't handled in 72 hours or there's not real movement or real, um, withdrawal here, and the Democrats [chuckles] bring up impeachment hearings, we're gonna be a yes."

    9. KS

      Yeah, yeah.

    10. SG

      And that we need 20, we need 20 people here, 20, to represent the 345 million Americans, and they're nowhere to be found, and the disappointing thing is, they have done the calculus and have decided they have enough support in their districts, the silent majority, that they don't feel they need to do it.

  15. 23:5027:38

    Broader framing: chaos strategy, Stephen Miller’s role, and a final memorial

    1. KS

      Yeah. I think one of the things, the last thing I would say is, we're playing on their field. They want this to be about chaos, not about affordability-

    2. SG

      Yeah, agreed

    3. KS

      ... about, um, a worse life, about their incredible, um, uh, corruption and money grab, including the tech CEOs. They want it to be about a poor man getting shot on the streets. Um, and I would last like to call out-... Stephen Miller, who is in the center of this. We always focus on Trump, uh, as we often focus on the top people, but Stephen Miller, uh, like a man named Ben Detzen, he was the one who created the internment camps for Japanese, Heinrich Himmler in the, in the, in the Nazi regime, this is what he is. And he, he, uh, he- of course, Trump gets most of the blame being the top, at the top, but people like Stephen Miller, uh, will go down in history as evil, um, he has blood on his hands, um, and should be jailed at the very end of this, and you're absolutely right. I do wanna make one more point, and I think Saturday Night Live did this really well. Um, these are white people getting killed, and this is something the, uh, African American community has talked about, the, the brutality they get in the things, and I thought, if you wanna look at anything, there was a terrific, um, skit on it about that, uh, which I thought was quite effective. Let's not forget to note that. Um, in any case, before we go, Alex Pretti's parents, um, said in a statement, it was the most dignified thing I've ever... I wouldn't know what to do if this had happened to my, any of my children. "Please get the truth out about our son. He was a good man." And with that in mind, I wanna play a tr- a clip of, uh, Alex in his role as an ICU nurse. He was, uh, serving veterans, honoring a deceased veteran. Let's watch.

    4. SP

      [whooshing] Today, we remember that freedom is not free. We have to work at it, nurture it, protect it, and even sacrifice for it. May we never forget and always remember our brothers and sisters who have served, so that we may enjoy the gift of freedom. So in this moment, we remember and give thanks for their dedication and selfless service to our nation in the cause of our freedom. In this solemn hour, we render our honor and our gratitude.

    5. KS

      [whooshing] Yeah, I think that just about says it, freedom is not free.

    6. SG

      Yeah, I hope I... You're right. This, like, this is just so rattling on so, so many levels, but, um, Heather Cox Richardson has also said we face darker times, and I'd be shocked if at some point there isn't a future president that gives, um, Alex the same type of dignified send-off that he gave that veteran.

    7. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    8. SG

      I do think this is a turning point.

    9. KS

      Yeah.

    10. SG

      Um, incredibly upsetting, and this isn't about... I can already see what's gonna happen. They're gonna come out and acknowledge a tiny bit. They'll say, "Yes-

    11. KS

      It's a tragedy.

    12. SG

      - we've had to scale up ICE because of, because of the massive wave invasion, and they do need more training." And that's like saying that the guards at Dachau needed more training.

    13. KS

      Yeah.

    14. SG

      This is a, a systemic structural depravity from, from, straight from the president and his sycophants who are unqualified and also seem to wade in this kye- type of cruel and strange behavior.

    15. KS

      And to the citizens of Minnesota, we thank you.

    16. SG

      Yeah, thank you.

    17. KS

      Um, you have done... Uh, keep doing it, and we thank you. Um, you are fighting the fight that's critical, including, uh, the sacrifices you make. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. Uh, we'll be back with a full show on Tuesday. And Scott, thank you very much.

    18. SG

      Thank you, Kara.

Episode duration: 27:38

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