Skip to content
PivotPivot

Anthony Scaramucci: Trump’s Red Card Reversal “Poisoned” the World Cup | Pivot

Kara is joined by guest co-host, the one and only Anthony Scaramucci. Kara and The Mooch break down Trump inserting himself into the World Cup, and his latest line of attack: communism. Then, Trump Accounts are officially launched. Despite the name, are they actually a good idea? Plus, DOGE officially ends, Zuckerberg gets real about Meta's AI progress, and why Taylor Swift's wedding was better than Jeff Bezos'. 00:00 Intro 00:48 Taylor Swift’s Wedding 6:07 Trump’s World Cup Interference 10:13 Trump’s Communism Fixation 23:09 Trump Meme Coin Losses 33:04 The End of DOGE 38:55 Trump Accounts Launch 45:49 Meta’s AI Disappointments 52:57 Wins and Fails #pivot #podcast #karaswisher #scottgalloway #fifa #trump #worldcup #redcard #communism #trumpaccounts #doge #meta #ai #crypto Producers: Lara Naaman Zoë Marcus Taylor Griffin Todd Wiseman Vox Media's Executive Producer of Podcasts: Nishat Kurwa Subscribe to Pivot on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pivot/id1073226719 Subscribe to Pivot on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4MU3RFGELZxPT9XHVwTNPR Follow us on Instagram and Threads at: https://www.instagram.com/pivotpodcastofficial/ Follow us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@PIVOTPODCAST Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or email pivot@voxmedia.com

Anthony ScaramucciguestKara Swisherhost
Jul 7, 202658mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 0:48

    Intro

    1. AS

      What organization in the world is more corrupt than the Donald Trump White House? The answer is, boing, FIFA.

    2. KS

      [upbeat music] Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. Scott is off today, so I brought in the one and only Anthony Scaramucci, The Mooch, podcaster, founder of SkyBridge Capital, and author of the upcoming book, which is getting a lot of kudos, All the Wrong Moves. And I think I gave you a blurb, Anthony, didn't I?

    3. AS

      I got a blurb out of you. Hey, listen-

    4. KS

      I never give blurbs. You know that

    5. AS

      ... I gotta, I gotta, I, you know, I had to use the crowbar, ladies and gentlemen, to get the...

    6. KS

      [laughs]

    7. AS

      I pivoted on Pivot. I had to use the crowbar to get the blurb out of her, but it worked.

    8. KS

      All right, but so be honest with

  2. 0:48 – 6:07

    Taylor Swift’s Wedding

    1. KS

      me. You were at Taylor Swift's wedding, weren't you?

    2. AS

      Uh, well, I'll be really honest with you and tell you I would've liked to have been invited-

    3. KS

      I know. Me too

    4. AS

      ... to Taylor Swift's wedding, because when you look up in the dictionary name-dropping and star fucking, there's a picture of me.

    5. KS

      I know.

    6. AS

      But alas, I was not invited to her wedding.

    7. KS

      It, it, it, it made no sense, the invitations. I mean, I got the dancers and everybody else, like her, all her friends and her cousins and everything, but the celebrities were just odd. It was so... They were... Some of them were obvious, like, you know, Bradley Cooper and those kind of people, but Ant, uh, you know, like, Adam Sandler being the, the, the officiant was interesting. It was such a, uh, was such a dog's breakfast of celebrities. It was fascinating. What do you think?

    8. AS

      Well, I, what I love about it is it was original and it was true to whatever they wanted to do. You know, at the end of the day, it's your wedding.

    9. KS

      Oh, I liked it

    10. AS

      ... have at it.

    11. KS

      Yeah. Yeah.

    12. AS

      And, uh, they, they went crazy. I mean, I one time got married with, uh, a lot of fanfare in a Roman Catholic church. The second time I got married, Deirdre and I got married in our living room. So, I mean, you know, you... It's a, it's a time in their lives. They're both first-time married. I wish them nothing but great success with their, their marriage, but you know what? If you don't mind, I'm gonna give them a shout-out because they did list 20 charities, and I'm on the board-

    13. KS

      $26 million, yeah

    14. AS

      ... of City Harvest, which is one of the largest food banks in the country-

    15. KS

      Yeah

    16. AS

      ... if not the largest, and they gave a million dollars to City Harvest.

    17. KS

      Wow.

    18. AS

      And so, uh, God bless them-

    19. KS

      Amazing

    20. AS

      ... for doing that because we have-

    21. KS

      Yeah

    22. AS

      ... a lot of food insecure people in our great city, Kara.

    23. KS

      Yeah, yeah. They gave a bunch to Dolly Parton. They gave a bunch to all these, like, amazing... They gave $26 million, which is 13 times two if you're a Taylor Swift person, um, which is her favorite number. But it was really interesting that... It, what was interesting is how they handled it. I was gonna compare it to the Bezos wedding. I want it to be fair. But for some reason, that one felt awful, and this one cracked me up, and I don't know why the difference, 'cause it was obviously an over-the-top wedding. Um, it was directly in the middle of New York City, which I loved, and of course, they did it to protect them at Mad- You've been to Madison Square Garden 100 times, right, presumably?

    24. AS

      Yeah, no, it was, uh, Mad- I consider Madison Square Garden one of my homes. I'm a Knick and a Ranger fan. But I, I think, I think the difference was the, the Bezos wedding was trying to be the Venice Film Festival but for the Bezos family, and this was like, "Hey, we're corny people, and we're gonna have a little bit of a cornball situation go on, and we're gonna do whatever we want. But oh, by the way, we're good people. We're gonna write some big checks to charity." So, and listen, you know, I'm, I'm a ca- I, I'm all about, if Jeff Bezos and his wife, Laura Bes- Lauren Bezos, if they wanna spend money like that, God bless. I have no problem with it. I know other people get very upset with it. My attitude is, you know, you make the money, spend the money, no problem. And people forget how many jobs are tied to events like this. You know, you've got-

    25. KS

      Yeah. Absolutely

    26. AS

      ... porters and waiters, and you've got people in the hotels. And, and to me, I like people spending their money because it goes into the system, and it takes care a lot of people.

    27. KS

      On an experience, right. Now, what's really... It was, to me, what's interesting is, one is theirs was rather private even though it was in the middle of New York City, one. There weren't, you haven't seen pictures, very many. You've seen very few pictures come out, and the ones that are out are just people, "Hey, I'm going to this wedding," and sort of bragging about, which I'm fine with. Um, but the Bezos one was so performative, like waving from the docks and the outfits and everything else, and I think that was one of the differences. I, I suspect there's gonna be a movie-

    28. AS

      It's Ryan's work

    29. KS

      ... of the wedding. I sus- [laughs] I suspect that's coming for all of us.

    30. AS

      Let me, let me ask Kara Swisher-

  3. 6:07 – 10:13

    Trump’s World Cup Interference

    1. KS

      Trump's officially inserted himself into the World Cup. This is Really ba-- I even I know this is bad. US soccer star Folarin Balogun is set to play against Belgium after FIFA overturned his one-match suspension from a controversial red card. Trump personally called FIFA President Gianni Infantino to push, uh, for a review of the decision. Trump posted on Truth Social saying, "Thank you for doing what was right and reversing a great injustice." As we tape on Monday, Belgium has been granted the right to appeal the ruling, so things may have changed by the time you listen to this. I mean, why did he do this? It seems like it's, it's just s-sort of sullies. Thoughts?

    2. AS

      If you're ever on Jeopardy! , they don't answer the que- they don't ask the questions like this, but they say, "What organization in the world is more corrupt than the Donald Trump White House?" The answer is, boing, FIFA.

    3. KS

      Boing, yes.

    4. AS

      That, that's the answer. So, so I mean, so, you know, it's like the two of them got married and did something very corruptive and delicious to the world's most favorite sport. But, but to me, 'cause I wanna channel Trump for you, uh, so get the barf bags out, guys, 'cause I wanna tell you exactly how he thinks. I am the man. Everything is about me. Let's insert ourselves. W-where's the attention this week? Oh, my God, there's billions of people watching the World Cup. Well, I gotta get myself inserted into that.

    5. KS

      Right, and Taylor... He tried to insert himself into the Taylor Swift wedding. You saw that. He tried to do... And nobody was having-

    6. AS

      Yeah, he tried to do that 'cause she hates him.

    7. KS

      Yeah.

    8. AS

      He hates her.

    9. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    10. AS

      Pa-pa. But let, let, let's just roll with... Hello, Butlick. Howard. Howard. Howard, are you there, Butlick? Okay, get some evidence together, okay? And then he calls Infantino, who we're calling Sic-Sycophantino.

    11. KS

      [laughs] Sycophantic.

    12. AS

      And he says, "This is what I want done."

    13. KS

      [laughs]

    14. AS

      And he basically does it.

    15. KS

      Uh-huh.

    16. AS

      And, and everyone's looking around scratching their heads and saying, "Wow, this is low for America," you know? Because it just makes us look crass. But to Trump, the... He's patting himself on the back. You know what he's saying?

    17. KS

      Really? What?

    18. AS

      "Nobody could have done this other than me."

    19. KS

      Right.

    20. AS

      "This is like another war that I solved. I need another FIFA Peace Prize."

    21. KS

      But, you know, I mean, look, uh, uh, FIFA is very corrupt, and I did a whole show on this about the corruption, the ticket sales, and everything else, but the games seem to be going well, right? People seem to be enjoying. The people-

    22. AS

      Amazing experience

    23. KS

      ... here, here from other countries. Uh, you know, you had, uh, Cape Verde, you had Mexico last night. Uh, even I am paying attention to this a little bit. Um, but, but this sort of... It creates... Does it create a problem here if this guy gets... By the way, just for people who don't know, this soccer star was, was born in the United States. His parents are from London, so he's what? He's the kind of the, the birthright citizenship that Trump rails against at the same time, which I think is kind of, of course, ironic. It's not ironic. It's typical.

    24. AS

      Well, yeah, I mean, that's, that's Trump. You know, he doesn't even... He's probably not even aware of that, and so that's another big irony of the whole thing. But, but just, just remember it has to be about him. Uh, enough of me talking about me. What do you think of me, and how can I get myself in-inserted into every situation?

    25. KS

      Even if it's controversial and it sort of sullies the U- a US win if there is one?

    26. AS

      Yeah, you see, that... Okay, so now that's FIFA's position. They're like, "Okay, the, the Americans are gonna win anyway. It'll mean more ratings." Uh, but somebody, somebody... Look, that was supposed to be done on the QT, and then Trump can't help himself. He's got these AI-generated Truth Socials, which are incredibly revolting, where the guy's pulling out the Trump card on the ref saying, "Yeah, you're trying to throw me out, but I've got the Donald Trump Trump card, so I'm back in." And so, you know, what, what happens is it's just a turn-off to people. And, and I gotta say this to you, Kara, and I'd love to hear your opinion on this. I thought the games were going great for America.

    27. KS

      Yeah.

    28. AS

      I thought people were-

    29. KS

      Agreed

    30. AS

      ... coming in very-

  4. 10:13 – 23:09

    Trump’s Communism Fixation

    1. KS

      marked, uh, America's 250th birthday, which was kind of a, a dud, by giving a speech. It was essentially a MAGA rally on the National Mall after storms delayed the event. He honored veterans and astronauts while also touting his own record and pushing for the Save America Act. He also focused on his latest obsession, communism, saying commu-communism is a loser, and it will always be. The night before at Mount Rushmore, where there was hail, a lot of weather his way, which was interesting, he called communist menace a greater threat than Pearl Harbor and 9/11, arguing that the American identity is under renewed attack. I, I thought communists were losing, but-

    2. AS

      [laughs]

    3. KS

      And speaking of threats to American identity, uh, hundreds of mass members of the white nationalist group Patriot Front marched through DC on the 4th, carrying Confederate flags and chanting, "Reclaim America." Those photos were kind of bizarre to look at. They were on the subway. Uh, talk a little bit about what was happening, and also, you know, that you couldn't see the fireworks 'cause there were too many of them and too much smoke, and there's smoke all y- We all have been advised to stay inside over the next day or two in DC 'cause of the heat and the, the particulates from the, from the fireworks, which nobody could see very easily. Um, talk a little bit about this communism thing. This is... I hadn't heard communism from him. So thoughts on what's happening here?

    4. AS

      Well, it's Mondani related. This is all related to the s- electoral success that the Democratic socialists have had recently, and this is also related to, uh, the speech that, uh, the mayor of New York gave, uh, from George Washington's desk, which, uh, obviously was very polarizing to some people. Uh, my arch nemesis, Steve Bannon, somebody I can't stand, actually nailed it in my opinion. He said, "Hey, you better pay attention to Zohram Mondani because-

    5. KS

      Yeah

    6. AS

      ... he's a great-

    7. KS

      He did

    8. AS

      ... communicator. He's got a vision for things. He understands where people are and how upset they are, and Trump's res-

    9. KS

      Especially young people.

    10. AS

      Exactly, and Trump's response is to label everything with a broad brush that it's communism, Kara, and I think that's a, that's a big danger because when you, when you do that, you're missing the elements of what's got people upset, and, uh, this isn't communism. He's... If you listen to his speech I sort of felt like it was Scandinavianism, [laughs] you know? It was-

    11. KS

      Yeah. Right. That's what I was thinking too

    12. AS

      ... it was northern Europe. It wasn't-

    13. KS

      Yeah

    14. AS

      ... communism.

    15. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    16. AS

      You know?

    17. KS

      Yeah.

    18. AS

      And Trump's trying to label it something that it isn't, and he does that very successfully-

    19. KS

      Who's thinking of this?

    20. AS

      ... on a lot of people.

    21. KS

      Who, who... Is this successful? I haven't thought about communists since, since, like, the Cold War, essentially.

    22. AS

      Yeah. So I don't, I don't think it's gonna be successful, 'cause you r- remember, Zoran Mandani is not flat-footed. You know, when you're calling Hillary Clinton crooked or Joe Biden sleepy or Jeb Bush low energy, they're more like standard politicians, and they're a little flat-footed. You know, uh, this guy, in my opinion, has made one mistake. I won't name the billionaire, but when he doxxed a billionaire in New York City with social media-

    23. KS

      Okay

    24. AS

      ... I thought that was bad. I mean, because-

    25. KS

      I agree. I said so. Yeah

    26. AS

      ... you don't wanna put people in harm's way.

    27. KS

      I agree.

    28. AS

      If you wanna-

    29. KS

      Right

    30. AS

      ... put a peer-to-tear tax in and people can pay it, no problem, but don't name the people 'cause you're gonna get... You're, you're gonna make people, you know, in a dangerous position. But to me, this kid has only made one gaffe, and I'm-- I wasn't a supporter of his. I think the city's a lot cleaner. The city looks very safe to me. You said to-

  5. 23:09 – 33:04

    Trump Meme Coin Losses

    1. KS

      Nearly one million people who bought President Trump's meme coin have lost a combined 3.8 billion. Guess where it went? At the same time, Trump disclosed earnings of $636 million from the meme coin in 2025. Trump profited whether the coin, uh, price rose or fell, collecting fees every time the token was traded, which he, which is called a vig, which he often, uh, prompted his followers on Truth Social to do. Meanwhile, Michael Saylor's strategy has abandoned its famous never sell Bitcoin, wasn't a holder anymore, um, mantra. The company is launching a $1.25 billion monetization program to raise capital, with Bitcoin sales already sold 216 million. Trump's disclosure, by the way, showed active trading of strategy shares. Um, we- uh, you know, for people who don't understand what was happening, we talked about this last week, he made, uh, several billion dollars, largely related to crypto, very small amount in real estate. Similar, similar to what he always makes in real estate, essentially. Uh, nothing more or less. But there's a lot of, you know... And of course, the kids have their own grifts going on, and Jared and Ivanka have their own grift. So talk about how we should be thinking about crypto now, and what happened here with Trump.

    2. AS

      Well, I mean, it's, it's important that people understand how dramatic this grift was. I mean, he needs an Academy Award or a FIFA World Cup trophy. Maybe FIFA will give him-

    3. KS

      [laughs]

    4. AS

      ... the Grifter Prize of the... You know, "We gave you the, the FIFA Peace Prize, but the grifting has been so good. Here's the FIFA Gri- Grifter Prize" Because this is unbelievable. And just to put it into context for everybody, all of the publicly traded crypto companies combined made less than Donald Trump did in crypto. Just so everybody knows, he made more money than Coinbase, Kraken, put them all together. Kraken's not public, but you get, get my point. They do disclose their financials. Uh, and remember this, okay? Trump's disclosure was 927 pages. Barack Obama, his ex- his was eight pages, okay? So this guy filed a phone book. He didn't file disclosure. But, but the crypto stuff is so bad, it is so egregious, so many people lost money, and the differential of 3.8 billion losing and him making 800 is just, to me, insidious. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna say this to you, and I know you get this. The Emirati royal family bought $500 million stake in his company before the inauguration.

    5. KS

      World Liberty. Mm-hmm. Right.

    6. AS

      Okay. So I don't know. You tell me, uh, that was just a, "Hey-"

    7. KS

      They got chips

    8. AS

      ... "that's a nice gesture."

    9. KS

      Yeah, they got chips.

    10. AS

      "Hey, Kara, how are you doing? You know, there's a Kara Swisher. It looks like it's from your longevity documentary behind you. I'd like to buy that from you for $500 million just because-"

    11. KS

      Right

    12. AS

      ... "you know, you're a nice person, Kara." Is that how the Emirati royal family treated that situation?

    13. KS

      Right, right.

    14. AS

      So, so to me, it's again, I'm taking the money, and by the way, you stupid crypto bros, what did you think was gonna happen? Oh, you thought I was supporting you? No, no, no. This CLARITY Act, which everybody would like to get passed, that can't happen because my opposition, uh, hates me, and they're gonna vote against it to spite me. And oh, by the way, that spites you, but ha ha. Guess what? I didn't care about you.

    15. KS

      Right.

    16. AS

      I didn't care about your industry.

    17. KS

      So what, what happens to the, the crypto... What, what is happening? Like, what Saylor has done, obviously he's been super aggressive, and you've been deep into crypto and Bitcoin particularly. Where... Does this hurt the Bitcoin business? W- uh, because it was actually improving l- allegedly under Trump with all these, you know, the regula- Gensler was gone, everything else. Where does this leave crypto now? 'Cause it then has this taint as, as, as the So- world, the World Cup has of Trump's finger- dirty fingers all over it.

    18. AS

      Yeah, so nobody likes me in the crypto community for saying this, but I'm gonna continue to say this. Gary Gensler was a pain in the ass to the industry. But you know what Gary Gensler did? He blocked a lot of the lowlifes and a lot of the peop- a lot of the scammers out of the industry. Trump has opened up the floodgates and became the scammer-in-chief in the industry. So people said, "Oh, this is gonna be great for the industry." It's not great for the industry. You, you would want the mama bear. You would want propitious and ordinary, transparent crypto regulation with a defense system against scumbaggery. We didn't get that. So when Trump announced that meme coin, Kara, I was at the World Economic Forum with Bryan Armstrong on a panel, and I said, "This is gonna be very bad for the industry because this makes us look terrible." And his opposition, there are young Democrats that would probably support the cryptocurrency industry that are looking around saying, "I can't do it now because of what Trump has done." Uh, and so, so to me, I think it's a b- I think it's a big issue. You mentioned Saylor, so we might as well bring him up. You know, s- Michael's gotta be careful because he's an absolutist and he's an extremist. So he said out of one side of his mouth, "I'm never selling my Bitcoin. You should sell one of your kidneys to buy and hold Bitcoin." But he's got pressure on him, and he's got a inb- he's got a cash imbalance. And so guess what he's doing? He's starting to sell his Bitcoin. Like, Michael's not gonna take advice from me, and I like Michael, but I would say, "Michael, you've become part of the story. Go on your yacht, sail off into Sicily somewhere, stop tweeting about Bitcoin, get out of the story-making business," because what happens in a situation like this is like a fighter squadron. Let's say we got B-17s about to strafe Berlin, and one has engine trouble and is lagging behind the others in the squadron. Uh, what are the Messerschmidts gonna take out first? They're gonna take out that one, and this is Michael right now. So get out of the story. I wouldn't sell any more Bitcoin, by the way. Your job is to have Bitcoin go back up, and you getting out of the story will probably help that. I'm long-term bullish on Bitcoin. I think we're in the typical four-year cycle where we've corrected 50%. We could correct more, but I think the long-term bias for Bitcoin is up. And, uh, I think if you hold it for five years, you're gonna be well, well-situated.

    19. KS

      Here you have Trump sort of dirtying up the, the industry in a ways. What needs to happen from a bipartisan? How can it return to a way where you don't have, you know, too much regulation, and at the same time, you zero out all the, all the scammers?

    20. AS

      So I, I, I think there's only one thing, and that is t- time and demography. So I think if you're above the age of 60 and you're in the Democratic Party, you hate crypto. I think if you're below the age of... If you're in the 50 to 60, you're crypto bicurious, but you're, like, crypto skeptic. If you're below the age of 50, you're generally like, "Okay, I get this, and there should be an ecosystem allowing us for tokenization and for general improvements of the financial services/fintech community." And so I think he set the industry back. I think it'll be three, four, five years before we see the right type of regulation. I wanna be wrong. You know, Cynthia Lummis, Tim Scott are saying that the CLARITY Act is gonna get passed. If you go to the Polymarkets, it's right-

    21. KS

      Explain what the CLARITY Act is.

    22. AS

      Okay, so the CLARITY Act, in the most simple elevator pitch, is exactly that. We're gonna offer you clarity on regulation associated with crypto. Where is Bitcoin gonna be regulated, at the CFTC or the SEC? Where are these other coins gonna be regulated? What's gonna be allowed in the industry? How are we gonna deal with stablecoins? Are they gonna be able to pay interest on their, um, the balances that you put at a stablecoin company? Uh, what will the banks be able to do? Will, will we charge the banks on their balance sheet, which they would do right now if I held my Bitcoin? I can't hold it at J.P. Morgan, but if I was able to, they, they, they hit them with an overcharge on their capital account. But let's say they could segment it out. Will the money center banks eventually be able to custodian Bitcoin. And so why are we calling it clarity? Because the pendulum has been swinging back and forth between the administrations. You get hard left-leaning regulation from the SEC, then it swings back to hard right-leaning li- regulation. We were having regulation by enforcement under Gensler. Now we're having light touch regulation. This would, this would provide a clear signal to Democrats and Republicans, "Here are the laws as legislated by the Congress, signed by the President, and so this is the interpretation bandwidth you have now as opposed to this, you know, this b- this wider bandwidth."

    23. KS

      It feels like grift again. That's what it, it has more of a nervousness around it 'cause the Trumps are around.

    24. AS

      Well, well, well, it do- Let me explain why it does though, because all Gillibrand and these people are asking for is, "Okay, we don't want the president's family to steal another couple billion dollars of, of crypto. So can we at least legislate or create a rules-based system that's ethically guided?" And the White House said, uh, "No. Uh, we like when the president steals." Scott Bessent said that the two point four billion that he took is a sign of US innovation, is what he said-

    25. KS

      Yeah. Oh my God

    26. AS

      ... in an interview. This guy, I mean, you know-

    27. KS

      This guy

    28. AS

      ... I mean, you gotta be kidding me. I mean, this is, this is literally unbelievable.

    29. KS

      This guy. Jesus.

    30. AS

      It's like, I mean... But it's, you know, you know what it is? It's like a sock puppet at this point. It's like that used to be a person, you know, like Prince, formerly known as Prince. That used to be a, a person formerly known as Scott Bessent. He's now a sock puppet for Caroline Leavitt and Donald Trump, okay? And h- you're saying that with a straight face in an interview, guy? I mean, come on.

  6. 33:04 – 38:55

    The End of DOGE

    1. KS

      of the Department of Government Efficiency, better known as DOGE. In a post on X, the agency said, "While the formal mission of DOGE has come to an end, the mission to eliminate waste, fraud, and abuse will continue. Good stewardship of taxpayer dollars and accountable government are not temporary initiatives." Researchers estimate DOGE's cuts to USAID and humanitarian aid contribute to hundreds of thousands of deaths worldwide. DOGE claims it saved taxpayers about two hundred and fifteen billion dollars through spending cuts. The original goal was two trillion. M-many people feel it costs the United States, actually. One thing we won't be getting is a final assessment of what actually accomplished. Uh, Budget Director Russell Vought recently told Congress, "We have no plans to publish a closing DOGE report." Of course not, because if they did a good job, they would tell you. Uh, I think this was just, i- as it turned out as I said it would, it was a nothing burger of, of massive proportions, and actually led to death of people around the globe, uh, especially children. So, uh, any final thoughts on DOGE? Just another waste of time.

    2. AS

      Again, there, there was a DOGE. Uh, it was, it was the Clinton-Gore reinventing government.

    3. KS

      That's right. Yeah.

    4. AS

      I just wanna remind everybody, we took four hundred and twenty-six thousand jobs, and we eliminated them over eight years through attrition and buyouts and process redesign. Uh, and what I do- never can understand for the life of me is I think I'm a reasonably smart guy, but I know I'm stupid in a lot of areas. But if I had a B next to my name, you have to explain this to me, Carol, 'cause you hang out with these people more than I do. So I've got billionaires that troll me on Twitter 'cause they're smarter than me, and they know more about everything than I could-

    5. KS

      Yeah

    6. AS

      ... possibly know.

    7. KS

      They do. They do.

    8. AS

      But... And I understand that. Yes-

    9. KS

      They do

    10. AS

      ... you know more about neurology than neurologists and more about the military than the military. Yes, you have a billion dollars, so you're the smartest. I understand that, but why wouldn't you have gone to 25-year veterans of the GAO, the Government Administration Office, and said, "Okay, where are the worms in the system? How can I plug a few holes? I'm not gonna save a trillion dollars or two trillion dollars." But you know from an engineering perspective, the structural design and the embedded costs of the government, what could we do to stop some of the bleeding-

    11. KS

      Yeah, they didn't wanna do that

    12. AS

      ... and how could we do that gradually?

    13. KS

      They didn't wanna do it.

    14. AS

      And they didn't want to do that because why?

    15. KS

      'Cause they wanted to please Elon and let him jump all over the place with, uh, uh... I don't know. I, I think he just was to please Elon. I think Elon felt like this was important, and that's where they had the falling out over the tax bill when he started to show what he really was made of, which was spending more government money. Um, and I just think it was just all an act. I thought it was all nonsense and idiotic and possibly gave Elon and his minions, uh, uh, access to lots of secure d- government data. That I always thought it was about the data, but that's just me.

    16. AS

      Well, it was definitely, it was definitely a missed opportunity because we could have gone back to page go legislation, uh, that got us to the budget surplus during the Clinton era.

    17. KS

      Yep. Sure was, yeah.

    18. AS

      We could have gone with a Clinton-esque, a DOGE-like system that was bipartisan. Uh, we could have said to our fellow Americans, "Hey, we're not gonna fix the problem in 10 years, but you know what? Over a 20-year period of time-

    19. KS

      We need to deal with this

    20. AS

      ... we could get the de- we could get the spend in line with where the GDP is." Uh, and we didn't do that. And you know what's gonna happen, and you know this, and I know this, my buddy Ray Dalio knows this.

    21. AS

      You're gonna have an American president in twenty thirty-six, twenty forty dealing with a fifty-five trillion dollar budget deficit.

    22. KS

      Deficit. Mm-hmm.

    23. AS

      And they're gonna be sitting there saying, "Okay, well, the money's not worth anything anymore-

    24. KS

      Yep

    25. AS

      ... because the only way we can pay for this, guys, remember, unfunded tax liability is what a deficit is." That's what Milton Friedman said. All deficit spending, unfunded tax liability, and guess how we're paying for it? We're using the most pernicious and most regressive form of taxation because we're cowards. We're using inflation, and so we're gonna, we're gonna blow out your bank account. You think you got a thousand dollars in your account. It only has seven hundred and fifty dollars worth of purchasing power 'cause that's our way of monetizing our debt, and that's a problem, and that's one of the reasons why I am long gold and one of the reasons why I'm long Bitcoin because I do think that these will be part of the-- as we reinvent ourselves once again, they will be part of the answer, uh, to the way the monetary system works in the future.

    26. KS

      This was a missed opportunity, and it was all performative.

    27. AS

      Terrible.

    28. KS

      Performative. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, the pros and cons of Trump accounts.

    29. AS

      [upbeat music] Support for the show comes from Anthropic. Not every question has an easy answer, and when you're working through something complicated, it helps to have a thought partner to kick ideas around with and uncover what's really going on beneath the surface. That's where Claude comes in. Claude is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough. It's the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you. Whether you're debugging code at midnight or strategizing your next business move, Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter. Plus, Claude's research capabilities can have comprehensive, reliable analysis and citations, turning hours of research into minutes. And Cowork brings Claude's code agentic power to your desktop, no terminal required. Just point it to a folder on your computer and add connectors, including Google Drive and Gmail. Describe what you need, and it handles the rest. You just queue up tasks and come back to find finished work. For problems worth solving, get started with Claude today at claude.ai/pivot. That's claude.ai/pivot, and check out Claude Pro, which includes access to all of the features mentioned in today's episode, claude.ai/pivot.

    30. KS

      Anthony, we're back. Speaking of trying to make money for American citizens, Trump accounts, which I hope will,

  7. 38:55 – 45:49

    Trump Accounts Launch

    1. KS

      the name will be changed after he leaves. The new investment accounts for children have officially launched. Trump marked the occasion by ringing the bell to open the markets from the Oval Office on Monday morning. Six million Trump accounts have already been opened for children under eighteen, according to the Treasury Department, a fraction of eligible kids. That's a small amount, actually. Babies born during Trump's term between twenty twenty-five and twenty twenty-eight will receive a thousand dollar deposit of seed money in these accounts. The Social Security Administration is introducing process, uh, for parents to enroll their babies, uh, uh, in these Trump accounts. At the hospital, they register, as they register for Social Security numbers. We've seen a number of individual and corporate donors to these accounts, including Michael Dell and, as you mentioned, Ray Dalio. The latest is SpaceX President Gwynne Shotwell, who just announced she's donating company stock. Um, what do you think about these accounts? I'm not necessarily against them. I don't-- I think it's, I, I just, I feel like grift will happen because Trump's involved with it, um, and at the same time, I feel like maybe we should just have, you know, childcare. Maybe we should just have healthcare. Maybe we should just have these kind of things that are, that cost people. I, I don't mind forced savings, which essentially this is, and I have accounts for my own kids for college and things like that. But, uh, and everyone should be able to avail themselves to them on a tax-free basis. So, and at the same time, relying on the stock market's problematic from my perspective, but go ahead. Let's hear.

    2. AS

      Well, I wanna-- Listen, you know, I, I have to say this one straight for me as a Wall Street person. I like this because I, even if it's gonna be six million people, that's what it looks like right now, uh, getting these people auto-enrolled in the stock market and the idea that they have some investment, which means they're technically invested in something, uh, and i-if it could spark some aspiration, if it could spark some interest in long-term thinking and saving and investing, I like those things. You know, I wa-- You know, listen, Michael Dell, I think, gave six and a quarter billion dollars. I know he's a very wealthy man, but I think it's a very generous statement that he's trying to make. I, I don't like the Trump name on it, but of course, anything that Trump does, he's gonna have to put his name on it. He's trying to get his signature on your money. He's trying to get his face on your passport. He cannot help himself. So, but, but here's the thing I would say about this, and people should really be concerned about this number: forty percent of the Americans own nothing in a retirement account.

    3. KS

      Right.

    4. AS

      And I want you to think of the pressure on that. And so that also, we do know this, and we don't teach it in school, and perhaps we should. We know we have a lot of financially illiterate people in the country. And if you're listening to this podcast and you're financially literate, don't look down on those people. Figure out a way to educate those people because more educated people and more financially literate people will mean there'll be more self-sustaining people, okay? And there'll be people seeking their aspirations. So I do like this one. Uh, Trump is taking more credit for it than, than he deserves. This was an idea that was proposed ten years ago. Uh, lots of people blocked it. I think, I think, believe it or not, uh, uh, Vice President Harris, if she was president, would have accepted this at this point in our culture. You're making a different point, though, and I would just say not to conjoin those. The point that you're making, which I agree with, we need a platform of good food in the school so the kid doesn't go to school heal- on unhealthy or hungry. We need some sustainable educational ideas, and we need some healthcare for these kids. That's more important than putting a thousand dollars in their savings. I, I accept that, but I would just say to you, Kara, and people listening in, you gotta deal with the world the way it is, not the way it should be and not the way we want it to be. And so this one I like

    5. AS

      And I would like, I would like to see more billionaires, I'd like to see more people do this

    6. KS

      Giving money. So is this like, although some people feel like OpenAI doing it is a way to get a bailout at some point, or you give, you give him the money, and he takes credit for it, and then y- you get some sort of break of something else, that giving money these things gives you something else.

    7. AS

      Well, that's been the case with Donald Trump. I mean, we've, we've learned that. You, you give him money, you buy a documentary from his family, you get more rocket contracts. You, you, uh, you line up behind him, he takes care of you. Uh, you know, you've got people that have given him money or given money to his PAC, and, uh, Howard Butlick has written them out of certain tariffs and has gotten them an exemption on certain things. So yes, we know that there's a pay-per, per-play system going on. And so yeah, there's people thinking, "You know what? I'm gonna give this. I'm gonna get the tax cut, and Trump's got two and a half years left. I may need a favor from him, and he's a guy that pays for play, and I, I can get in there and ask for that favor and probably will get it done." You know? There's, there's a queue of people, and I'd be very interested. I'm not an investigative, uh, reporter, but I would love somebody to work on this. There's a queue of people that are lined up for pardons, and I know it's in the tens of millions of dollars is being paid to get these pardons. They're hiring lobbyists, they're hiring attorneys, they're, they're buying, I don't know, fragrances from the family-

    8. KS

      Right

    9. AS

      ... or they're buying meme-

    10. KS

      All manner of Kellyanne Conways all over the place

    11. AS

      ... yeah, they're buying meme coins. I don't know what the hell they're doing.

    12. KS

      Right, right, right.

    13. AS

      But I'm, I'm sure there's a legion of people, they're like, "Hey, we got a two-and-a-half w- year window. We broke a lot of laws, but this guy could pardon my ass" And, and this is Trump's personality. Rather than using the norms in the system, he breaks the norms, and then he brags about it. "And only I, only I could have gotten our player back on the field. Only I could take in billions of dollars for myself. These other presidents were stupid. They could have made billions of dollars for themselves, but I'm the genius." You see what I mean? And it, it's very corruptive. And let me tell you what it does, which pisses me off the most, if you don't mind, because we grew up similarly. When I was a kid growing up, maybe Richard Nixon was corrupt, but he wasn't so corrupt that I thought the system was broken and unfair.

    14. KS

      Right, right. Absolutely.

    15. AS

      I looked up at the system. I said, "All right, the guy's probably corrupt. But you know what? If I go to a good school and work my ass off-

    16. KS

      Yeah

    17. AS

      ... I can move classes in this country."

    18. KS

      Yeah.

    19. AS

      This guy is putting a suppression on middle and lower income people. They're m- they're like, "Holy shit, there's a two-tiered justice system. You're either one of the president's crony friends or you're not. And if you're not, you're not gonna make it, and I'm gonna do way l- less economically than my parents did, and I don't have any hope, and I don't have any chance." That's what the corruption does in a society, and that's what pisses me off the most.

    20. KS

      Yep, I would agree. I would agree. So we're both sort of for these things, but it just seems like... I'd love to get the Trump name off of it. I almost signed up for one.

    21. AS

      [laughs]

    22. KS

      I almost did, but then I was like, "I have enough stock holdings." So last thing, very briefly. Um,

  8. 45:49 – 52:57

    Meta’s AI Disappointments

    1. KS

      so Mark Zuckerberg told Meta employees the company's AI agents aren't advancing as quickly as expected. Like a lot of corporate people, Zuckerberg said Meta's AI reorganization hasn't delivered the results the company had hoped for, though he expects progress over the next three to six months. In May, Meta laid off around 8,000 employees and reassigned about 7,000 to AI-focused teams. Zuckerberg, uh, said this move is not as clean as it sh- should have been. Meta is expected to spend as much as $145 billion on AI infrastructure this year. Um, everybody's a little worried about it, even, uh, Palantir. The Palantir, even though he said it in a crazy way, was making a lot of sense around, uh, the, the high price of tokens, the effectiveness, the safety of your data, whether you wanna hand it over to these things, all signs of possible highs of these, of this spending. Do you think... How much impact, how much patience do investors have if companies keep saying progress is slower than hoped, including the center companies in this?

    2. AS

      Yeah. Well, I mean, you, you know the answer to that. I know the answer to that. They have patience until bam, they don't have patience. And this is very reminiscent of Global Crossing and very reminiscent of Cisco. And you and I are old enough to remember Web 1, where we were building the infrastructure. We were putting all the switches in. We're gonna have all these transatlantic, transpacific cables. We've got cables coming down the, uh, Persian Gulf, all the way into the Strait of Hormuz, and we are going to electrify and globalize everything, and they overspent. Uh, and they had too much leverage in the system as a result of whi- which, like a, like a real estate speculation, uh, the system got built, but it collapsed, and the people that were owning the equity and were buying the hopium at that time actually got crushed. And so what I'm fearful is also the way this stuff is booked, right? Because if you're, you're, you're, you're, you're spending on the R&D, and then someone else is booking a profit at the same time, you know, to me, you've artificially stimulated some people's earnings, okay? Particularly the data centers and things like that. And so I'm worried about that because that's exactly what happened in Web 1, and you and I are old enough to remember that movie.

    3. KS

      Except it's bigger.

    4. AS

      And that movie ended in tears. Yeah, that wasn't a happy Hollywood ending, that movie.

    5. KS

      Although, then there was Google, then there was Meta, then there was, you know.

    6. AS

      Well, yeah. Well, yeah. Well, the, well, that's the bet. So now you've got your cards. You're playing this hand. You gotta hope that you can close your position out before the thing blows up, and then you wait for whatever replaces it, right? You know, you know, listen, AltaVista.

    7. KS

      [laughs]

    8. AS

      Ask, Ask Jeeves.

    9. KS

      Jeeves. Yeah, I'm the same.

    10. AS

      Okay? We could... You, you remember the search engines, right?

    11. KS

      Remember Internet Capital Group? Scott and I were-

    12. AS

      Right

    13. KS

      ... reminiscing about that company.

    14. AS

      Remember Internet Capital Group?

    15. KS

      ACG.

    16. AS

      Remember the boom in Internet Capital?

    17. KS

      Oh, God.

    18. AS

      They named the, they named the Patr- I knew it was over when they named the Patriots stadium the Internet Capital Group Stadium or whatever the holding company was. A- and so, so to me, what I'm worried about here, and I think It's fair to be worried about this. Is this is a great technology. I think it'll l- add to productivity. It'll boost things. The internet certainly did that. But as we invest, there were pockets in the railroad industry that blew up, pockets in telecom that blew up, and there's gonna be pockets here that blow up.

    19. KS

      Do you expect to blow up? Because a lot of economists are suddenly sounding alarms. Now, it took years before that happened in the one you were talking, Global Crossing and everything else. It took several years before it broke, essentially.

    20. AS

      Well, you gotta tell me where rates are going. You, you tell me where the rates are going, and I'll tell you where the fuse is because if we manage to stave off, despite the economic data and the specter of current inflation, uh, and remember, we, we had a hundred basis point differential on rate expectation. So if you and I were doing this podcast January 1, Anthony, what are you expecting? Three s- twenty-five basis cuts this year. What is it now? We flipped it over to one twenty-five basis point hike, so that did affect a large part of the markets. It did affect crypto, and obviously gold also sold off as a result of that. But if you're telling me we have a fifty basis point, seventy-five basis point rate increase due to the quagmire in Iran, all these assortment of different things, you're gonna, you're gonna shorten that fuse, fuse. Somebody could say, "Hey, I'm gonna miss a bond payment here. Sorry." Uh, I think it's very telling, Kara, that Facebook, which mints money, and Google, that mints money, I think they combined went out to raise in bond market activity something like a hundred and forty billion dollars-

    21. KS

      They did

    22. AS

      ... in the last six weeks.

    23. KS

      They're trying to get in early.

    24. AS

      And so that's-

    25. KS

      Yeah

    26. AS

      ... telling you something. They're like, "Holy shit, we're spending so much money. We better get another hundred or so billion dollars in reserve here to protect ourselves, uh, and to create a, a layer of protection on the interest rates that we're gonna be paying."

    27. KS

      We're gonna be paying. So we'll see where that goes. Anyway, uh, one more quick break. We'll be back for Wins and Fails.

    28. AS

      [gentle music] Support for the show comes from Vanta. Every new tool your team signs up for, every vendor that turns on AI features, every new integration has a chance for something to go wrong, and most security programs weren't built for AI's pace of growth. Enter Vanta. Vanta is the number one agentic trust platform used by over sixteen thousand fast-moving companies, including Ramp, Cursor, and Harvey, to ensure they're always audit-ready. And now Vanta is helping companies like yours watch the risks that show up between audits across your vendors, your AI tools, and your whole environment. How? The Vanta agent works like a twenty four/seven GRC engineer in the background, finding issues, drafting fixes for you, and cutting vendor assessment time by up to fifty percent. Whether you're a fast-growing startup or a global enterprise, Vanta is here to help you automate your security and compliance and earn improved trust. Get started today at vanta.com/pivot. That's V-A-N-T-A.com/pivot. Support for the show comes from NPR. Is social media bad for your mental health? Are we spending too much on other people's weddings? Why is heteropessimism trending? If the culture is asking it, NPR's It's Been a Minute podcast is talking about it. It's Been a Minute stands for your right to be curious, one big question at a time. Four days a week, host Brittany Luse breaks down the ideas, trends, and conversations shaping the culture. She goes beyond the obvious takes, talking with creators, critics, and cultural voices who help you see things differently. You'll hear dialogues with both up-and-comers and cultural icons. I love NPR. I've been listening to it for my entire life. They do a great job. You know, try to hit it straight down the middle. Fantastic production values. It's Been a Minute knows cultural trends don't happen by accident. It's not just what's trending, it's why it's trending and what that says about us. Brittany and her guests dig into the latest memes to unpack how they got into your feed in the first place and why they're stealing our attention. These are the conversations you want to have and the ones you'll be bringing up later. Follow NPR's It's Been a Minute podcast and indulge your cultural curiosity.

  9. 52:57 – 58:20

    Wins and Fails

    1. KS

      Okay, Anthony, let's hear some wins and fails. You go first.

    2. AS

      Well, listen, I mean, we talked about it. So I think the win of the week is the Trump accounts, actually. I, I don't like to call them that, but I want Americans to get into the saving and the investing mindset, and certainly if you can get children into the saving/investing mindset, it could be a life-changer. So I think that's the clearest win for me. Uh, the second clearest win, uh, which is obscure to people, but I, I, I, I think it's, uh, it's meaningful is, is the birthright citizenship, and we talked a little bit about that last week on my show. I think that is the big message is, "Sorry, you know, you pushed and shoved us around. We are afraid of you here at the court, but you know what? It was a six-three decision, and we're gonna stick with the Constitution over the orange maniac." And I, and I think those are two big wins. All right, so losses for me are FIFA and Sick of Fantino. I think this is-

    3. KS

      [laughs]

    4. AS

      ... a big loss for him. And I think, and I think weirdly, you know, and sadly, uh, I think he's, uh, I think he's hurt the game, and I, and I think it sucks because the World Cup to me is about togetherness. You know, when you wanna love people and you wanna love the world, I think of the World Cup. I'm like, "All right, look at all these people." You know, the happiness and the sadness is based on a sporting event. It's not based on a war. I love the whole environment. I love the whole carnevale of it, and I just think the notion that this guy poisoned that too, it's like he won't stop at anything. So, so, so those are the, those are the wins, and those are the losses.

    5. KS

      That sort of goes into my fail is the continued sucking up of people like Be- Bes- Besant and others about like, yes, there's plenty of people behind me. The, the, the cultism is so strange, and it's so... At some point, when are you gonna say the emperor has no clothes? That's y- that kind-- Which I don't want to see Donald Trump naked necessarily, but, um- Th- this, this-

    6. AS

      Have you ever thought about it, though?

    7. KS

      No, no. Please don't.

    8. AS

      Is it ever, like, if you're an imaginative person-

    9. KS

      I just imagined my... No, no. Tha- no

    10. AS

      ... has it ever just gone into the brain?

    11. KS

      I have a s- a sense of what it looks like, and it's not good. [laughs]

    12. AS

      And the whole, like, it's like an open spam can. Like, you just opened a spam can, and there he is.

    13. KS

      There he is. [laughs]

    14. AS

      Have you thought of it?

    15. KS

      Open spam can.

    16. AS

      Yeah.

    17. KS

      With a penis, which, which a bent penis attached. Um-

    18. AS

      Well, you don't know. It c- yeah, we haven't confirmed or denied that. It just could be an open spam can.

    19. KS

      I believe this, I believe porn stars is what I do. Um, but, uh, I, I f-

    20. AS

      [laughs]

    21. KS

      The sycophancy is just astonishing, and Douglas Burgum in particular, l- with the whole thing around the reflecting pool. I mean, first of all, everything, like that fair, nobody was there, and they were pretending they were there. That was hysterical. But he was going on and on about these cuts, and without any proof, and then when the, "Why are you media people, why don't you just accept this?" And they're like, " 'Cause you're a liar, Doug Burgum." Like, to me, he seemed to be a, even though he's an obvious suck-up, obvious suck-up, but the, the level of suck-uppery is really... And I'm like, "You're not stupid, and you're sucking up." And that to me was, um, really a, a, a, a fail. I thought that, I, I just can't believe it's gonna continue. I just don't know when it's gonna stop, and I'm sort of waiting for the moment where somebody points to him and says, "You're naked," essentially. Um, my win, um, uh, is, uh, is, ugh, this is gonna seem strange. So over the holiday, I went to see Supergirl, 'cause everyone didn't wanna see it, right? 'Cause it's, you know, it's this big disaster for Warner. Um, and people aren't going to see it. And I have to tell you, it's a pretty good movie. It's a pretty good movie. Uh, I know it's not gonna win. I see the numbers. Uh, y- it, I could see why it would be hard to get a man to go to it. Um, it's pretty, um, woman-focused. There's, it's a, there's a sex trafficking, um, thematic. It's dark. Um, but I do think this actor who's in it, Milly, uh, I think it's Alcock, uh, is amazing, was amazing, and I think it's a lovely, I think it's a good, it's a really solid, it wouldn't, uh, there's been some bad, uh, movies in this genre, in the superhero genre, and lots of bad ones. This is not one of them, and I'm sorry it's not doing better. I bet it has a life outside of this time. Later it'll become a cult favorite, I think, 'cause it's really an interesting and strange movie.

    22. AS

      Oh, oh, I'll definitely go see it.

    23. KS

      Yeah.

    24. AS

      Look, I'm a big Superman aficionado, and I love Supergirl.

    25. KS

      Yeah, she's really interesting. It's dark. It's, but it's dark, and I can see why people wouldn't necessarily go to it, so I get it. I get it. I get it. Anyway, and of course, the biggest win of the week is Taylor Swift. Congratulations with, uh, you and Travis getting married. It's just-

    26. AS

      It's nice. I mean-

    27. KS

      Two crazy kids. You two crazy kids.

    28. AS

      Come on. It's, it's great.

    29. KS

      I hope for the best. I hope you can make it, both of you. [laughs]

    30. AS

      It's great. But, you know, if, guys, I would like to be, if you're probably not gonna have another wedding, but if there's an anniversary part- party-

Episode duration: 58:22

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode RfpC0js4CsE

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

iOSAndroidClaudeChrome