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Are Major Changes Coming to Donald Trump's Campaign? | Pivot

Anthony Scaramucci, former White House Communications Director, talks to Kara Swisher and guest host Mehdi Hasan about Donald Trump's current mindset, and the big changes that he thinks might be coming to Trump's campaign. He also makes a bold prediction about whether Trump will stay in the race. Subscribe to Pivot on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pivot/id1073226719 Subscribe to Pivot on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4MU3RFGELZxPT9XHVwTNPR Follow us on Instagram and Threads at: https://www.instagram.com/pivotpodcastofficial Follow us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@PIVOTPODCAST Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or at https://podcasts.voxmedia.com/show/pivot #pivot #podcast #donaldtrump #kamalaharris #election #scaramucci

Kara SwisherhostAnthony ScaramucciguestMehdi HasanhostScott Gallowayhost
Aug 13, 202422mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 0:44

    Intro

    1. KS

      We are gonna get to where Trump's mind is now with, uh, an interview with Anthony Scaramucci, who was the White House Communications Director under Donald Trump and is the founder and managing partner of SkyBridge Capital. Welcome, Anthony. How you doing?

    2. AS

      I'm doing well. How are you?

    3. KS

      Good. You know, let me just say, I'm gonna let Mehdi start 'cause he requested you. So I-

    4. AS

      Okay.

    5. KS

      ... I, I, I want him to start on this. We're obviously going to talk about where Donald Trump's head is at. So, uh, Mehdi, take it away.

    6. MH

      Anthony, good to see you. I thought you'd be a great person to talk to, uh, this week after Donald Trump's rambling pref- press conference, insane, dishonest press conference, after his, uh, AI accusations against Kamala Harris's rally crowds. I know you've been asked this many times before over the years, but let me ask it again. Is Donald Trump in the middle of a meltdown?

  2. 0:44 – 1:42

    Trumps Meltdown

    1. MH

    2. AS

      Uh, well, I mean, he's, uh, he's in a rolling meltdown on most days and most times. So yes, he's in the middle of a meltdown, but it's not unusual for him to be in a meltdown. But, you know, Cara brought something up. She said, you know, "Mehdi requested you." I think Mehdi, I would like to think this, respects my evolution and my honesty. You know, I was on the wrong side of this. I had to look at it very crystally clear. I had to own the fact that I was on the wrong side of it, and then I had to actually explain what happened. And so you have guys like Mike Pompeo. You have guys like, uh, McConnell, Kevin McCarthy, uh, uh, you know from your journalistic reporting these guys absolutely cannot stand Donald Trump, uh, but they're still supporting him due to moral cowardice and political expediency. Um, I've had senators... I've had one senator hand me... and he promised me not to use his name so I won't use it, but he handed me a book that's Snakes in Suits. He says, "Read this." I've read this. This is how I deal with Donald Trump,

  3. 1:42 – 2:36

    Snakes and Suits

    1. AS

      okay? Snakes in Suits. So, so Mehdi, I tried to be very honest about this, I love my country. I don't agree with a lot of the, the policies that are coming out of the Democrats. Cara knows this. The crypto policies, I don't agree with, but I love my country. Okay? And th- and the democracy and the civilization and the order of things, the predictability of our judiciary, the lack of a Project 2025, which is a hegemonic control by a group of anarcho Christians, okay, I don't want that for my country. And so here we are. But yeah, so he's in a rolling thing. Can I give you some insight 'cause I've talked to some people-

    2. KS

      Sure. Yeah.

    3. AS

      ... inside the campaign.

    4. KS

      Please.

    5. AS

      Um, he's in a full-on, uh, temper tantrum over what is going on. Uh, his, his tried and true Rubik's cube, uh... Cara, you're a nasty girl, Cara.

    6. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    7. AS

      You're a nasty girl, okay?

  4. 2:36 – 2:59

    The 2016 Playbook

    1. AS

    2. KS

      It's fair.

    3. AS

      It's not, it's not, it's not working. You see what I mean?

    4. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    5. AS

      And he's trying it. It's a 2016 playbook. Oh, I'm running against a woman, so let me get the Rubik's Cube to look like the following things. Here comes the word salad out of my mouth and it's gonna work. But what he's missing, guys, is that the demographics of the voting constituency has moved, and so they

  5. 2:59 – 3:38

    Turn Black

    1. AS

      don't like it. Okay, if you're gonna tell me that the presidential candidate for the Democrats turned black, and I'm, that's not my words, and I, again, I literally almost apologize on your podcast for using these words, but they're not my words. This is the words of the Republican presidential nominee, "turned black." I'm sorry, most normal people don't like that, but I can tell you who really doesn't like that are younger people.

    2. KS

      So why, why-

    3. AS

      They do not like it.

    4. KS

      ... why is he doing it?

    5. AS

      And so he's flummoxed.

    6. KS

      Is- is he not... Is he... Does he just have no other moves? 'Cause everyone has... And he's a very talented political figure in that-

    7. AS

      Yeah, so that's, that's exactly right. So he's now in a bunker. He's

  6. 3:38 – 6:14

    Trump in a Bunker

    1. AS

      now doing what he does. He's on his phone. He's calling supposed friends. He's calling allies. Um, I'll tell you who's not helping him right now is Steve Bannon, but would be helping him, because, uh, Cara and Mehdi, you know how smart Steve is. He's a malevolent MF, but we all three of us know how smart he is. He'd be on the phone with Steve right now, and Steve is a super smart guy, and Steve would be like, "Okay, here's what you need to do. Here's how you have to do it. Here's what you need to say, and here's how we're gonna make this go from here," and Trump would be recalibrated. But he hasn't found the intellection-

    2. KS

      Well, Steve's in prison, so that's an issue, but go ahead.

    3. AS

      Yes, yes, exactly. Steve's in prison till November 1st. Okay?

    4. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    5. AS

      And that's tough 'cause you only have four days talk to the Trumpster.

    6. MH

      But he's-

    7. AS

      You know, I'm surprised we haven't come up with the Trumpster Dumpster.

    8. MH

      ... a political genius.

    9. AS

      You know the Trumpster Dumpster? 'Cause that's what's going on right now.

    10. KS

      We've seen that. That's- Go ahead. Go ahead, Mehdi.

    11. AS

      Oh, you have seen that? Oh, okay.

    12. MH

      But he, but he's got, he's got d-

    13. AS

      Okay.

    14. MH

      Antony, he's got the political genius that is Don Jr advising him, uh, from the sidelines, uh, giving him JD Vance and the Gold dust attacks.

    15. AS

      Okay, so, so, so you, okay, so you guys know this. He is furious over this and he is absolutely furious over this. Uh, he made that decision, and I don't care if you're superhuman or you think he's superhuman, he's not. A bullet whizzed by his head, he was this close to death, and he was traumatized by that. And you, we can pretend that it's a video game, but guys, it's not a video game. He made the decision-

    16. KS

      I agree with you.

    17. AS

      He ma- he made the decision-

    18. KS

      100%.

    19. AS

      ... to pick JD Vance in the 72 hours over af- almost, he was almost killed. Now, what happened in those 72 hours? His poll numbers shot up, his victorious Iwo Jima picture with the flag behind him and the blood on his ear.

    20. MH

      Yeah.

    21. AS

      And so he's like, "Okay, it's not gonna matter. I'm gonna pick whoever," and, and then the narcissism also creeps in. Okay, so I can't pick Nikki Haley. First of all, she said mean things about me and I don't like that. And secondarily, people will say she helped me win the race, so I can't pick her. I have to win this race 100% on my own, all attention on me. I can't pick Marco Rubio, little Marco, because he said mean things about my hands and I don't like that. Okay? JD Vance, he said mean things about me a few years ago, but there's nothing that Trump likes more than a conversion.

    22. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    23. AS

      Okay?

    24. MH

      Yeah.

    25. AS

      Okay? There's nothing he hates more than a guy like me. I've seen the evil. I'm speaking to the evil. JD Vance is like, "I've seen the evil, but I'm a politically motivated, super ambitious son of a bitch, and I'm going with the evil." See, Trump loves that.

    26. KS

      Yeah.

    27. AS

      'Cause that, that, that Trump knows they have no-

    28. KS

      So he-

    29. AS

      ... no moral anchor so he can do anything

  7. 6:14 – 11:27

    Changes Coming

    1. AS

      he wants-

    2. KS

      So-

    3. AS

      ... with them.

    4. KS

      You say he's furious. He, you posted a few days ago on X that you believe Trump's recent behavior means changes are coming to the campaign. What do changes mean from your perspective? 'Cause, you know, the p-

    5. AS

      Well, he wants to fire Lacivite. He doesn't want to fire Susie Wiles.

    6. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    7. AS

      He's blaming Lacivite for a lot of this stuff.

    8. KS

      Because-

    9. AS

      Chris is a good guy. I've known him forever. Chris is very tied to-

    10. KS

      He's done a good job getting him until recently.

    11. AS

      They, they have. He's been disciplined. He's been on message. But let me explain to you why he wants to fire these guys, okay?

    12. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    13. AS

      I put 85... Let's think like Donald Trump for a second. I put 85 of my super loyalists-

    14. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    15. AS

      ... my MAGAts, my M-A-G-A-T-Ss into Project 2025. I then took the president of the Heritage Foundation around on the plane with me. I told them, "You make up a great plan for me to take over America."

    16. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    17. AS

      "Liquidate the judiciary branch and the legislative branch. I really want an oligarchic America." You have to really understand this. This is why those billionaire bros are with them. They want an oligarchy. They see how the oligarchs have flourished in other dictatorships. And it's cleaner, it's neater, they can get more things done for their businesses.

    18. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    19. AS

      They have less restrictions, less checks and balances.

    20. KS

      Sure.

    21. AS

      They want this.

    22. KS

      Sure.

    23. AS

      They don't want the messiness of the democracy. Peter Thiel has said publicly that the democracy is probably obsolete, right?

    24. KS

      Yeah.

    25. AS

      You've heard him say it.

    26. KS

      He says. He said it a decade ago.

    27. AS

      Okay, so, so they're, they're into YARF.

    28. KS

      Go ahead. So what is, what is he going to do with these people?

    29. AS

      So, so, so, so now he has a civil war going on, okay? The 85 people he jettisoned and said, "I hate Project 2025," they're like, "Well, wait a minute. You, you told us to go over there." So this is like in The Sopranos where they run, ran over the guy's head in the gas station, okay? And now they're sitting there saying, "Okay, now what do we want to do?" And he says, "Well, Jesus Christ, those are my friends. Why did you make me run them over?" And so he's blaming it on Lacivite. You see what's going on?

    30. KS

      Yeah.

  8. 11:27 – 16:25

    Can Trump Win

    1. AS

      believe he's doing this?" And now he's saying that the crowds are AI generated for Kamala Harris, that this is hard to believe. It's no longer hard to believe.

    2. KS

      Okay.

    3. AS

      There's no surprises anymore. Okay, do you understand what I'm saying?

    4. MH

      Yeah, but Anthony as long as he thinks he can win...

    5. KS

      Does he think he can win is what I'm-

    6. MH

      I, I do, but as long as, as long as he thinks he can win, and as I said to Cara earlier-

    7. AS

      Yes.

    8. MH

      ... in the show-

    9. AS

      Yes.

    10. MH

      ... like he can win, right? It's a 50/50 election. Anyone who thinks he can't win is absurd. Either of them could win at this point. As long as he thinks he could win, there's no reason for him to step aside. He wants power, as you say. He wants that attention, and he's got a very good chance of getting it in 90 days.

    11. AS

      So again, you guys are not gonna believe me, but I talk to a lot of insiders in the campaign-

    12. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    13. AS

      ... he's less interested in the power, he's more interested in the retribution. Okay. So, he will go play golf-

    14. MH

      (laughs)

    15. AS

      ... he will hand the government over to the Project 2025 people to wreak havoc. He has an enemies list, it's 350 people. I'm on it. I'm just disappointed I'm not ranked higher. Okay. I had dinner with Esper and I had dinner with Milley a few weeks ago, they're like, three and seven on the list. And, uh, yeah, it- it's Liz Cheney and Mike Pence, you go down the list, I'm like 48th. I'm like, "Guys, what am I not, what am I not doing?"

    16. SG

      All right. But really-

    17. AS

      "I really should be in the top 10." Okay.

    18. SG

      But, but he, you think he, he could win? Betty's made- makes a point, he still has a very good chance of winning.

    19. AS

      He-

    20. SG

      Or losing.

    21. AS

      ... he has a chance to win, but he's rolling off of a waterfall. You've got Pluff on the campaign, you've got Obama, Kamala Harris, I've said this on my podcast-

    22. SG

      Kamala.

    23. AS

      ... I've said this-

    24. SG

      Said it right.

    25. AS

      Kamala. I apologize, I'm from New York.

    26. SG

      It's all right.

    27. AS

      I'm not, I don't mean any disrespect by saying it the way I say it.

    28. SG

      Okay.

    29. AS

      Let me rephrase it. Kamala Harris-

    30. SG

      Okay.

  9. 16:25 – 17:07

    What Trump Needs to Do

    1. SG

    2. AS

      Okay. He needs to do something he's almost incapable of doing. I hope you guys like my T-shirts. This is from Bad News Bears. Remember Chico Bear-

    3. SG

      Yeah. (laughs)

    4. AS

      ... Del Vance? Okay, okay. So, what he needs to do, which he's not going to do, okay? 'Cause he's not, he doesn't like doing it.

    5. SG

      Mm-hmm.

    6. AS

      He needs to shut up and he needs to make this an issues-based campaign.

    7. SG

      Mm-hmm.

    8. AS

      And he needs to go out there and he needs to say, "These are the issues, this is where I am, this is where she is." Now, the reason he's not gonna do that is he's one inch deep on the issues. He's not even a foot deep, okay? On the issues.

    9. MH

      Yep.

    10. AS

      So, he can't really do that. He can say they're pouring over the border. You know all the syntax that he uses. They're, they're

  10. 17:07 – 22:51

    The Frank Sinatra of Elocution

    1. AS

      doing this, they're doing that, the rapists-

    2. MH

      Hannibal Lecter.

    3. AS

      Well, he thought the asylum thing was like, an insane asylum.

    4. MH

      Yes.

    5. AS

      He didn't realize it was a political asylum. So, that's him, right? And, but, but let me tell you, he's really good at it. He is the Frank Sinatra of elocution. You say, "What the hell do I mean by that?" Study Frank, the way Frank sung, Frank would pause at certain places where the, the average singer wouldn't. Trump copied that from Frank Sinatra. Okay. He won't eat before a, uh, uh, he gets to a microphone. Why? He told me Frank Sinatra told him, "Never eat before you get before a microphone."

    6. SG

      Okay.

    7. AS

      Okay. He studied all of these things, okay? And so he's in a loop, he's in a word salad loop that's not working with this demography. He needs to find somebody way smarter than him to say, "Okay, stop doing that. I know you're not gonna focus on the policies, but let's focus on-"... the aspirational hope of America-

    8. KS

      So, so why can't-

    9. AS

      ... that you're gonna provide versus her.

    10. KS

      ... why can't Susan Wells get him to do this? Why can't she?

    11. AS

      Uh, she can't get him to do this because he ha- he's still making the mental adjustment that he's not running against an 81-year-old fossil.

    12. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    13. AS

      See, he's, he's now running against a 60-year-old, very capable person. And I hope you guys don't mind me saying this on your podcast, and if you do, you can cut it out.

    14. KS

      Definitely.

    15. AS

      But when he says that she's dumb, that's as close as he can get to the N-word without saying the N-word.

    16. MH

      Yeah.

    17. AS

      I'm sorry to say it this way, but it's a racist trope.

    18. MH

      True.

    19. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    20. AS

      Okay. This woman-

    21. MH

      So is DEI president?

    22. AS

      Yes. This woman is a prosecutor. This woman won the Attorney General's race. This woman won the Senate. This woman was elected Vice President. This is an extremely capable, extremely competent person.

    23. KS

      Mm-hmm.

    24. AS

      And when he's doing that, s- you think Susie Wiles (laughs) is not saying... Kara Swisher, you think Susie Wiles is not saying, "Mr. President, please stop doing that. You can't do that because that's a code word-"

    25. KS

      Yeah.

    26. AS

      "... and you, you've got the world on fire doing that."

    27. KS

      Yeah. So, yeah. He-

    28. AS

      So he, but he-

    29. KS

      O- okay. Last question from me to us.

    30. AS

      The question is-

Episode duration: 22:51

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