PivotCharlie Kirk Assassination Fuels Rage and Retaliation | Pivot
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
115 min read · 23,367 words- 0:00 – 0:23
Intro
- SGScott Galloway
Let's assume his roommate was transitioning. I mean, who the fuck cares? What does that have to do with anything?
- KSKara Swisher
(Instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
Why don't we just get started
- 0:23 – 8:43
New Details on Charlie Kirk Suspect
- KSKara Swisher
on this? First, we have some competition as we tape. J.D. Vance is hosting The Charlie Kirk Show over, uh, on Rumble. He announced on X, "It would be an honor to," quote, "pay tribute to my friend." Charlie Kirk's suspected killer, 22-year-old Tyler Robinson, is expected to be formally charged this week. He's currently not cooperating with authorities. I think he's in that "fuck that" mode since he did what he did. That's, he seems, as we, Scott and I have talked about, to be terminally online. Um, Robinson's motive is still unknown. There's a lot of speculation and misinformation floating around. Uh, uh, Utah Governor Spencer Cox shared some details over the weekend, saying Robin was indoctrinated with leftist ideology and spent much of his time on the deep dark internet. I, I don't... He just, uh, they... Sco- Cox is saying that Robinson had a roommate and romantic partner who was transitioning. Again, they're not providing any details, so I'm not gonna believe anything, including what Cox said. I think he is tr- trying his best, and he's getting enormous pressure from Trump. But when asked if it was relevant to motive, Cox said, "That's what we're trying to figure out," though FBI Director Kashyap shared a link to a Fox News story, uh, about it on X. I mean, literally, make your own announcement, Kash Patel, if you don't mind, rather than doing stuff like that. What a, what an idiot he is. Um, so we don't know his motives at all. Again, as Scott and I have been saying, let's find out. Um, obviously, when you move to murder, uh, there's something very deep and, uh, and, and tragic going on, and also possibly mental illness too. Um, talk about... You just talked a little bit about your overall thoughts in terms of what we know and don't know, and since you've been down a rabbit hole, I just don't... I'm not gonna believe anything until the trial. That's my feeling. I just don't... I don't trust Kashyap in any way. I think people are grabbing bits and pieces for their own. You know, the bullet was trans. No, it wasn't. The shooter was trans. No, he wasn't. Oh, his roommate is trans. Well, I don't know, and so I'm gonna go with the... And I don't even know it has anything to do with it. Like, that's the other thing, is th- that's the really key part. Um, so your thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, i- it's clear what's happened here. Um, Governor Cox made the mistake of acting like a leader-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... and trying to take down the volume and not engage in the violence entrepreneurship that the president and some people on the left, but mostly people on the right, have engaged in to find an opportunity, uh, around violence to create advantage at the expense of potentially fomenting more violence. So, let me go to the notion, let's assume his roommate was transitioning. Okay. So the fuck-
- KSKara Swisher
Fuck him.
- SGScott Galloway
... what? If he had been in a relationship with a white girl in a sorority at ASU, does that mean this is the Republicans' fault? I mean, who the fuck cares? What does that have to do with anything?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
With anything?
- KSKara Swisher
I agree. His grandmother was like, "We're MAGA." I'm like, "I don't care." That has nothing to do with it.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, that, uh, uh, so-
- KSKara Swisher
Thank you, grandma.
- SGScott Galloway
And this all, this all goes... (sighs) What's so frustrating for me about this is, look at the data, and to try and figure out who the real culprit is-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... such that we can stop this or reduce it, the likelihood of it happening again. 98% of mass shooters are men, mostly young men. Almost every act of political violence... Of course, here's my rabbit hole. Let's just talk about the, the right, mostly the right, but also the left, is doing everything they can, from interpreting the font on these bullets to who their roommates are, to find evidence, to cherry-pick e- evidence to try and show that it's the other poli- side of the political spectrum's fault. And this is the bottom line. This kid, he was 22, was raised in a Republican household, registered unaffiliated, and I, I'm not sure, but I don't think he's voted yet.
- KSKara Swisher
No, he didn't vote.
- SGScott Galloway
Okay. Thomas Matthew Crooks, the person who shot Trump in Butler, registered Republican, and when he was 17, he gave 15 bucks to a voter registration drive that used ActBlue. Luigi Mangione, he was more mission and policy oriented, insomuch that he'd taken on corporate greed and healthcare as his cause, but he didn't come across as partisan or p- o- o- of any left or right aligned political movement. Vance Luther Bolter, age 57, the alleged killer of the Minnesota political figures, he was more politically oriented, but ultimately, no more politically engaged than the stereotypical angry uncle at a Thanksgiving who rants. Cody Alan Balmer, age 38, arrested after the attempted arson and kill, um, attempted murder of G- Governor Josh Shapiro. No political associations beyond some angry social media posts. David DuPage, age 42, attacked Pelosi's husband with a hammer, broke into Pelosi's house, very online and immersed in conspiracy content, but again, not a member of any group. And so, e- e- each side is trying to blame the other, and then media tries to play referee to get their ratings up.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
But this is the bottom line. What do we have in common (laughs) across all these acts of violence? They are almost always young men, and they are almost always not political extremists, but extremely online. So, if you just wanna reduce... How about we just reduce violence, including political violence, including mass shootings? Let's figure out how we get more young men to engage with guardrails in the form of relationships, more male mentorship, more males in high school, more economic opportunity-
- KSKara Swisher
Yessiree.
- SGScott Galloway
... more safeguards, and how about we hold-... the rage machine that has been attached to 40... that is driving 40% of the S&P's value, how about if we hold them to the same standards we hold every other media and say, "If you elevate content that has been directly correlated to rage, which results in violence, mostly violence against themselves..." Social media creates a lot of violence against themselves among young girls, a lot of violence among youn- uh, of young men against themselves, but also with young men. Sometimes, and I don't mean to pa-pathologize young men who are extremely online, most of them will not pick up a gun, but some of them do. So if-
- KSKara Swisher
That's right.
- SGScott Galloway
... anyone is interested in actually reducing the violence, they're gonna talk about removing-
- KSKara Swisher
Take the guns.
- SGScott Galloway
... Section 230 Protection for algorithmically elevated content and providing more opportunity and more empathy and, quite frankly, more love and relationships for young men.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Pardon me to interject. Um, I would say they don't want to do that. Cer- groups do not... Well, they want to engage in this sort of sharks-versus-jets kind of situation that's going on. And it's, like... I have to say one thing. I picked up my mother's phone. She had su-... She's somehow gotten on some Trump group things. Her texts were full of the most heinous efforts to get money. "Charlie's a martyr." "Charlie's this." "You must fight the left who's trying to kill us." It was so upsetting to read her texts. I deleted every single one of them. I tried to block them all. Um, it was such a... And her email was worse. It was all these, like, efforts. And, you know, it's fine. J.D. Vance can go on his show. But they're all doing it in order to raise money for themselves and to push their cause. He is not... This is just grotesque what they're d-... Like, uh, uh, same thing with, um, uh, D- Donald Trump, Jr. Like, they're all trying to push... They literally are walking over this guy and using him as, like, a, uh, way to raise money, a way to get people mad, a way to get political advantage. I mean, it, it's grotesque at this point. Like, I, I, I, I... Uh, I, uh... Have they forgotten their friend died or something like that? I just find it really strange. Like, the stuff on my mom's phone was so disturbing, Scott. I couldn't... I, I was sort of like... And then you have someone like Elon Musk who is making it worse. Like, sc-... Talking about fighting-
- SGScott Galloway
Democrats are the party of murder.
- KSKara Swisher
Par- party of murder. He just was like, "We sh-" He's putting out lists of people who sa-... Who said negative things about, uh, uh, Kirk. Uh, uh, he's done, like, a number of things. "We, we have to stop these people. We have to..." And now the words are "de-indoctrinate." "We have to..." It, it sounds like fucking Russia. Like, it, it's really disturbing. Le- let's get... Let's move to that because, um,
- 8:43 – 14:45
People Losing Jobs Over Kirk Posts
- KSKara Swisher
people across the country are getting fired, suspended, or investigated over posts criticizing Charlie Kirk after his assassination. Washington Post columnist Karen Attiah just shared a little while, uh, while ago that she's been fired over her Blue Sky posts, which are at best nothing. Like, seriously, nothing that she's done here has engendered it. They're waiting to fire her, and that's another story. But, uh, far-right activists have been doxing people they say are celebrating Kirk's death. Um, the def-... Then they're just deciding what a celebration is and what's not just regular criticism. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth ordered his staff to identify military personnel who mocked, uh, Kirk's killing so they can be punished. These are f-... the free speech warriors. These are the people that went on and on about... So cancel culture, they used to their advantage, and now they are doing cancel culture in full. They are the most cynical, non-free speech people I have ever encountered, and it's really astonishing how quickly they moved to, to this. Thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, again, it's this term I like. It's violence entrepreneurship. Um, trying to reap capital and advantage from an opportunity where you see violence. And two, the... And another thing we're just not talking about is the CCP and the GRU are having a field day. And do your own, do your own research here. Go on TikTok, or go on Threads, or Instagram, or on Facebook, or on Twitter, and when you see something really inflammatory from either side, look at the comments. The algorithms elevate content that gets a lot of comments because every comment results in the person, uh, the people who respond to the comment coming back. That's another impression, another ad, um, more shareholder value. Look at the really heinous comments that would likely incent and do motivate more comments, more news on ads, more shareholder volume. Click on the profile. It's someone with 38 followers.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, exactly.
- SGScott Galloway
Guess what? If I were in the GRU, in the CCP, and I couldn't beat us economically or kinetically, might I decide to do what is happening now and divide us internally? Make the call come-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, you would.
- SGScott Galloway
... from inside of the house?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
So, they are-
- KSKara Swisher
Putin has talked about this very specifically. To s-... And you... By the way, the Nazis talked about it.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, we... They have done a great job of convincing us, no, the threat isn't m- massive energy, a willingness to kill millions of their own people, technology, the largest consumer economcy, economy in the world, India, China, and Russia, binding together to push back on our interests. We've decided, no, it's some young white liberal saying really heinous things. And they are heinous things, so let's elevate that content, or let's listen to senior advisor Stephen Miller (laughs) claiming that it's civil war against the Democrats. Let's elevate that content by filling up anything with those feeds with bots, with comments that take that content beyond its organic reach on its own. And what Governor Cox initially said, "Go out and touch grass." Go out and touch people, 'cause generally what you find is-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, uh, with their consent. But go ahead. (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
Go ahead. Don-... Just go touch people.
- SGScott Galloway
Go out. Go out. I don't think that's true. I think we need to be more affectionate. But anyways-
- KSKara Swisher
I understand but I was gonna really ask.
- SGScott Galloway
And I also think we need a lot more sex.
- KSKara Swisher
I feel like we should ask. Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
And a lot more alcohol. Trust me, kids. The risks to your 25-year-old liver of alcohol is dwarfed by the risk of social isolation. I go to conservative places. I, uh, I meet a lot of people.In person, it is shocking how lovely people are.
- KSKara Swisher
I, I get it.
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
I agree with you. But I'm just saying, it's being f- it, you've got, speaking of you going down a rabbit hole, you have to get offline. Like, Elon Musk literally just tweeted, someone said, "I am now 100% confident that Charlie's assassinators was carried out by..." Charlie's, 'cause he's a friend of his, right? Uh, "Was carried out by radical left-wing transgender terror cell. Let's get into the evidence." And then Elon Musk tweeted, "Seems likely." Now, Elon, I'm sorry your kid's trans and you have this reaction. I'm not sorry your kid's trans, I'm sorry that you're such a jackass about it and such a strange, twisted person. But to do things like this, just to create this... Are they, I think they believe there's a transgender terror cell. Which there isn't, but fine.
- SGScott Galloway
There's no evidence, the only evidence we have on mass shooters is the following, the overwhelming evidence, is that they're young men who are disenfranchised. This isn't about division, it's about the disenfranchised. This isn't, uh, even about, I would argue it's not even about political extremism, it's about being extremely online.
- KSKara Swisher
Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
And-
- KSKara Swisher
You and I agree on that.
- SGScott Galloway
It, it, you could get around the most hostile table of political, you know, you could take Rachel Maddow and Tucker Carlson, these shooters, these, these folks committing this political violence, they are less politically affiliated than those two. These are people who have not connected to others and have easy access to weapons, to guns, and go extremely online-
- KSKara Swisher
And have no judgment.
- SGScott Galloway
... and don't have a good friend, don't have a romantic partner, don't have in-person work, don't have a male role model to say, "Something's going on with you. What's going on? What are you thinking? Where are you spending your time? What, what... No, that's not right. Come, come to my church group, you're gonna see how good people are from both political spectrums. Hey, have we, have we been thinking about getting in better shape? Why, I noticed you're acting strange lately, what's going on? You know how much we care about you, right? Are you all right?" It, it, it's literally a case of, um, it's a, it's a case of lack of mammalia. If you put an orca in a tank alone, it goes fucking crazy.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
The worst-
- 14:45 – 22:40
Utah Gov Denounces Social Media
- KSKara Swisher
to Spencer Cox, because I, people are like, "You shouldn't like him," I'm like, "I'm going to a little bit, okay?" So he has kept up his criticism of social media, since you're doing it right now, calling it a cancer. Uh, in an appearance on Meet the Press, he appeared to be taking notes from you, Scott Gallant. Let's listen.
- GUGuest
I can't emphasize enough, um, h- the damage that social media and the internet is doing to all of us. Those dopamine hits, these companies, trillion dollar market caps, the most powerful companies in the history of the world have figured out how to hack our brains, uh, get us addicted to outrage, which is the same type of dopamine, the same chemical that you get from taking fentanyl. Uh, get us addicted to outrage and get us to hate each other. I'm seeing it in real time since the tragic death of Charlie Kirk, I'm seeing it i- in, in every corner of our society. The conflict entrepreneurs are taking advantage of us and, uh, we are losing our agency, and we have to take that back.
- KSKara Swisher
Conflict entrepreneurs, I love that. You should steal that. Conflict entre- that's exactly what they are, 100. And the same conflict entrepreneurs, may I point out, people like Elon and Jeff Bezos, who owns The Washington Post, are shutting down actual free speech, which people should be able to do. Thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
(sighs) It, at what point do we get serious about this problem? I- it's, the media has a vested interest in pretending they're referee and, and getting more clicks and more views, and notice how quiet big tech has been on this? They know what's going on. They know... I, I mean, it's really, it-
- KSKara Swisher
They'll try to shut down Cox, you know that, uh, you know-
- SGScott Galloway
Any time they, any time you arbitrage one substance into another, you have externalities. The greatest arbitrage in history has been fossil fuels to energy, i- uh, the, you can't build a hospital without massive fossil fuels. The externalities there, carbon, are obvious. The externalities of turning attention into shareholder value, the externality there is rage. These guys know it. Uh, he, he, they, they know what's going on, they know that they profit off of this divisiveness and this rage. They're, they're not bad people by commission, they didn't set out to do this, they are bad, irresponsible Americans by efforts of omission. They are ignoring and obfuscating what is going on here. They know what's going on, and there are in- also the illusion of complexity has been weaponized here. There are common sense, people are bereft and throw up their arms and say, "It's only gonna get worse." Bullshit. There are absolutely common sense s- solutions here. No social media under the age of 16, no smartphones in schools. They have banned, uh, phones in, I think, about 19 states-
- KSKara Swisher
And that's what pe- a, a lot of teachers tell me, that kids can't wait to get to their phones even when they ban them, right? That's even a problem.
- SGScott Galloway
That's okay, but at least they're not-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... they're not (laughs) -
- KSKara Swisher
Agreed.
- SGScott Galloway
... th- e- I, I don't think my kids are capable or of, of any longer sitting through a two-hour movie because of the way their brains have been, have been rewired. And again, it's political, I don't care. In the next six hours there's gonna be more gun deaths in America than there will be in y- the UK over the next 12 months. This is, this, if we wanna get serious, there are a variety of programs, more after school programs, national service, more men...... in primary, uh, education, more money for young people such that they're more economically secure and they start, they start mating, eight million houses in 10 years, such that people have something to look forward to and a way to save money and don't feel as, as hopeless. Also, let me just take a page out of the right. We have orientation at universities for a week. We have increasingly spent more time at orientation talking about mental health and saying, "Look, if you're feeling bad because you get your first D, if you're feeling bad because you haven't had a lot of experience with relationships and someone breaks up with you, that is a normal part of life. And what has happened over the last 20 or 30 years is because kids are so sheltered with concierge parenting and with social media, you might feel hopeless. It's not hopeless. Trust me. We've all been there. You need to reach out to someone." There is something to the notion that these kids have turned into, uh, this oppressed... turned to this oppressed or oppressor, uh, ideology and are going on the hunt for people that say certain things, and also-
- KSKara Swisher
I do think that's changing, Scott. And now-
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I hope so, but-
- KSKara Swisher
... it's the right that's doing it. Just, let's be clear.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I actually don't agree, Kara. One out of three people on campus now believe that political speech and certain words are violence and can warrant actual violence, and it is mostly from kids who are strongly on the left. And-
- KSKara Swisher
I think that's changing.
- SGScott Galloway
Hold on. Let me finish.
- KSKara Swisher
Go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
College should be a safe place physically. It should be a dangerous place intellectually.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, agree.
- SGScott Galloway
And we have to tell these kids, and I've seen this firsthand, I've seen them turn it on each other. There's like two or three kids who are brave enough to support Trump in my class, and everyone turns on them. You are supposed to say provocative, offensive things.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay, can I make a point there?
- SGScott Galloway
Yes.
- KSKara Swisher
If they want to do that, then they should be strong enough to defend it. Like, that's actually a good thing to be turned on.
- SGScott Galloway
Agreed, critical thinking. Let's debate it.
- KSKara Swisher
Right. Let's debate it. Let them, let them have it. Like, but I have to say, one of the things you accused left of... not you, one accused, is like, "Oh, they're shutting things down" is the people that are actually banning, getting people fired, and-
- SGScott Galloway
Agreed.
- KSKara Swisher
A- a- are now-
- SGScott Galloway
Are the free-speech warriors. Yeah.
- 22:40 – 25:08
Trump Makes a TikTok Deal?
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, we're back. President Trump says the big US-China trade deal in Europe is going, quote, "quite very well." Who knows? He posted on Truth Social that the two countries have reached a deal on TikTok that will make the young people very happy. Uh, I don't think he named TikTok, but whatever. That's what he was talking about. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant, meanwhile, is calling the, quote, "framework" of a deal, which always makes me, like, wonder what the hell's going on. Parent company ByteDance is supposed to sell US assets or face a nationwide ban by Wednesday the 17th, which is just a few days. Trump is saying he'll talk to Xi Jinping on Friday. All of this comes as China accuses NVIDIA of violating antitrust law. Uh, I don't know. It's good... everyone who's near this deal tells me it's such a fake deal. It's such a like... they're really not separating them. It's really not gonna be anything but a lot of, um, fakery on top of what it is, and then they'll give some pretty stuff to Larry Ellison, who seems to be winning all, all day long. Your thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
I just think it's bullshit. I, I, I, I-
- KSKara Swisher
Bullshit?
- SGScott Galloway
... think this is a fake story. Let me use the tr- let me use the Trump. Fake news.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
I, I just don't... I, I don't-
- KSKara Swisher
You don't do it with conviction.
- SGScott Galloway
I don't buy it. I don't buy it.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Me neither.
- SGScott Galloway
It's fake news. It's from... yeah, sure. Okay.
- KSKara Swisher
Sure.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, and so-
- KSKara Swisher
They're just trying to stave off that, that deadline.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, it's an excuse to, to not ban TikTok because Trump has decided-... that TikTok, the CCP, when they were about to be banned, said, "Dial up the algorithm to be positive Trump," and then somebody on his team came back and said, "Oh, no. TikTok's good for us." And all of a sudden, he now likes it, and one of his biggest donors who gave him nine figures is one of the biggest shareholders in TikTok. This is pay-for-play, and he thinks it's good for him, so he didn't like it until he liked it. And also, this represents a breakdown in government because this was a law passed by both houses, signed into law, and we've decided just not to do it.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. It's ridiculous. By the way, Scott Bessent is starting to really irritate me (laughs) on so many levels. He's, like, such a suck-up and such a, like, he's punching people. I don't like that much either. I don't care if it's Elon he's punching. I don't like him punching anybody.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I thought violence was never-
- KSKara Swisher
A lot of peo-
- SGScott Galloway
... the answer, Kara.
- KSKara Swisher
That's correct. I know. I just find it so, like, ugh, ugh. Anyway. Yes. S- Scott and I will believe it when we see it, and we think it's probably a lot of nonsense and that you aren't gonna be protected from the CCP with this gang. That's for sure.
- 25:08 – 30:09
OpenAI’s Future
- KSKara Swisher
Um, OpenAI is also making some big moves on the way to becoming a for-profit company. This is something they've been trying to do, Musk has been trying to stop. Final- but they're finalizing terms for a new agreement with Microsoft. Microsoft is expected to take roughly a 30% take in the reorganized company. OpenAI's nonprofit parent will also hold an equity stake valued over $100 billion, but attorneys general in California and Delaware say they still have serious concerns about user safety, good for them, and wanna see improvements before signing off on restructuring. Um, wh- what do you think about this? I assume there'll be an IPO, correct? That's, that's the way it looks like it's heading, once they get this through, this idea of, uh, essentially a for-profit company with a vague nonprofit hanging over it. Um, and again, Musk is, still has legal, uh, challenges to a lot of this and he has a lot of allies still.
- SGScott Galloway
I think it would be so interesting to see what OpenAI's legal bills are and what's happened to the cadence of those legal bills because there is so much money on the line and this thing is so... Just as there's technical debt, you know, you come into an organization and they've invested so much in old mainframe technology that... I was on the board of a Yellow Pages company and they said when we f- actually fired the CIO was when he came in and basically said, "You know, it's gonna take us 18 months to reconfigure the tech-" and I'm just like, "It's a fucking Yellow Pages company. This isn't a cloud company." And he kept c- took- going on about technical debt. So the term technical debt means preexisting investments make it just really difficult to sort of untangle everything and expensive. I would love to know what the legal debt is at OpenAI and that is, this company has such an unusual corporate structure that they are trying to unwind-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes.
- SGScott Galloway
... and how much they've invested in legal work, I would love to know how much they're using AI.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
They must be spending $10 or $20 million a month on lawyers right now.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. At least, at least.
- SGScott Galloway
I would love to know as a case study- (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... how, if and how they're deploying their own AI to reduce their own legal costs.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) That's a funny ?????. But what about an IPO? I assume if this gets through and the restructuring gets through, which probably it will, given the money at stake here, 'cause they're spending money all over the damn place. They gotta, they gotta get cooking on the making of the money.
- SGScott Galloway
It's a really interesting question because there are 3,700 publicly traded companies right now. That is down by 50% since 1997. It's down 17% just since COVID because every time there's an acquisition or a bankruptcy or a take private, it's like, it's like in China now, there are more people dying than there are being people born. So the same thing. There are more companies coming off of the Nasdaq and the S&P than are going on. And we'll talk more about this. Some of it say it's regulation, but more than anything, a company like OpenAI, I think OpenAI just did a secondary where they gave every employee, like, a $1.6 million bonus. They can raise capital, they can acquire companies, and they don't have the regulatory burden of being public. So unfortunately, unlike in 2003 when Google goes public, it effectively what was $2 a share and gives retail investors the chance to 100X their money, there's so much money in the private markets that effectively as long as the company is still jamming, its current investors and private market investors and institutions, which tend to be wealthier Americans, say, "No, no, no, no. We wanna hold onto all that juice ourselves." So increasingly, you would've never had a company like OpenAI worth a half a trillion dollars having not gone public. So what does that mean? It means the retail investor no longer has access to these great growth companies and these guys have less incentive to go public. And typically when they do go public, it's the following. All right. The smart guys who really know our company have decided there's not much upside left here. We gotta, we gotta find a group of people who will turn this into a meme stock.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, I know. Public market investors.
- KSKara Swisher
Right. Just like what's happening with Tesla.
- SGScott Galloway
So all of the juice, you know, the juice has been squeezed by the time-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... these guys go public. Now-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... does that mean there's still not opportunity in the public markets? No, there probably still is. But you would've never... It used to be it took a company seven years to go public.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Now it's 14.
- KSKara Swisher
That's crazy.
- SGScott Galloway
The really good companies are staying private because they can get everything they need in the private markets now.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. So we'll see. We'll see.
- SGScott Galloway
This is the seventh most valuable company in the world I think right now.
- KSKara Swisher
I know. It's not public. It's crazy. What's the o- The only one that I was thinking of that was b- really valuable but never went public was Mars. Remember? The Mars people never went public.
- SGScott Galloway
It was, uh, th- the Mars family, also it used to be a company called Bechtel, and then before that, my biggest client in the '90s was Levi Strauss & Company.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah. ?????.
- SGScott Galloway
And these were not, like, big companies 'cause the only-
- 30:09 – 35:18
Tucker Carlson Questions Sam Altman
- KSKara Swisher
from Tucker Carlson's interview with OpenAI CEO Sam Altman last week. Carlson brought up a conspiracy theory about the death of an OpenAI whistleblower, which is being pushed by Elon Musk, by the way, suggesting it was murder, not suicide, as authorities had ruled. Let's listen.
- GUGuest
And if he was your friend, I would think you would want to speak to his mom or... I did offer. She didn't want to. So, do you feel that, you know, when people look at that and they're like, you know, "It's possible that happened," do you feel that that reflects the worries they have about what's happening here? Like, people are afraid that this is like... I haven't done too many interviews where I've been accused of, like- Oh, I'm not accusing you at all. I'm just saying his- his mother says that. I don't think a fair read of the evidence suggests suicide at all. I just don't see that at all.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, now. Thank you, Inspector fucking Clouseau. What are you talking about? This is like, this was the craziest thing. Like, don't you think we should entertain conspiracy theories that there's a cult and, you know, there's a, whatever? A murderous cult inside of OpenAI? I mean, I don't know why he sat down... I- I was... I couldn't understand why he would talk to this guy, given... I get why he would, but ew. Ew. The whole thing was really strange. Tucker Carlson's gotten really strange. And I don't know-
- SGScott Galloway
Th- This is... Like everything else, first off, uh, Tucker Carlson now appears to be a fully credentialed psychiatrist around-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... self-harm.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Also a detective.
- SGScott Galloway
Because he's decided that this guy does not qualify as one of the 25,000 people who, every year, decide, "I'm really down, I'm really depressed. And oh, by the way, there's a gun upstairs. I- I know what to do."
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Okay, first off, this is just all about money. And that is Tucker Carlson, who I think is a bright guy, decided, "Oh. I know how to get this to be a Ted Cruz-like viral moment and be number one instead of number four in podcasting and make more money. I'll create a rumor in front of one of the most powerful people in the world that he's a murderer." That's what he's saying right here.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, yes.
- SGScott Galloway
He's saying-
- KSKara Swisher
That's why Sam was like, "Everybody accuse him of murder."
- SGScott Galloway
... "I think you murdered this guy-"
- KSKara Swisher
Murder.
- SGScott Galloway
"... in some sort of thriller." And let's go back. Uh, uh, aside from the fact that while I think Sam Altman might be a sociopath, and that is ignoring the harm of AI because there is so much pressure on him to live up to the incredible expectations. And that's, that is not a nice thing to say, but I have a lot of fact patterns around all these guys who, in their hushed tones, pretend to give a flying fuck and then go on to build character AIs with no guardrails that result in real harm. I think, I believe, that there is no... That economically, it would be really stupid for Sam Altman to put out a hit on one of his employees.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I would agree.
- SGScott Galloway
For a lot less money, he can give money to Charles Schumer and to m- and (laughs) and to- to- to Senator Cotton, and make sure that there's no legislation that gets in the way or slows down AI. Or show up to a dinner and say, "Gee, President Trump, your big orange cock is like nothing I've ever seen."
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
"And it's so huge."
- KSKara Swisher
Apparently it's little and mushroom-shaped. Go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
"And you're such a great kisser." It is so much easier and low risk for Sam Altman to pursue legal means of economic success than to order a hit on one of his employees. Sam Altman is already a billionaire. He is... He would never risk spending the rest of his life in prison. He would never risk the economic implosion of putting a hit out on his own employees. And Tucker Carlson, uh, n- in my opinion, no one should go on that show if they're going to be falsely accused of being a murderer for clicks.
- KSKara Swisher
Agreed. I agree. I think it's crazy that he sat there. I- I actually texted him. I'm like, "Oh, so you're a murderer? Good to know." It's just ridiculous. Like, that- that- that h- this guy did this. Anyway, uh, we don't believe he's a murderer, just officially. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Paramount Skydance tries to shake up Hollywood with a new deal.
- SGScott Galloway
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- KSKara Swisher
Scott, we're back in the small ball area. As I predicted last
- 35:18 – 44:04
Paramount’s Acquisitions
- KSKara Swisher
week, Paramount Skydance is preparing for a mostly cash bid for Warner Brothers Discovery, backed by the Ellison family, who's richer than ever. For those trying to keep score at home, Paramount itself was just acquired, uh, by Skydance last month, and Warner Brothers Discovery has plans to split into two separate companies, one with the big studio and streaming properties, the other gets the live cable networks. Uh, currently, Warner Discovery has double the market cap of Skydance. Like, it's thir- it's a lot of money. It's 30-some billion dollars. Um, they... This would be for all of it, so not to split it up. Um, obviously, uh, they want the Warner Brothers studio and streaming properties. I- I'm not sure why they're not waiting for the split. Um, the bid hasn't been submitted. We'll see what the FCC thinks, although th- that guy's a toady to the Trump administration. And if Eliason wants it, Eliason will get it. Um-And, uh, and, uh, y- you know, we'll see. There'll be other bidders, presumably. Comcast and some others, if there are bidders, in fact. Thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, this is huge. Um, in the last wh- I mean, because there's so much news, uh, this would have been huge news. It's been drowned out. Warner Brothers Discovery, who has the highest-paid investment banker in history, their CEO convinced a bunch of investors to buy Warner Brothers from AT&T, and in exchange for destroying a massive amount of shareholder value, has taken out about a third of a billion dollars. He's the most, maybe with the exception of Chamath Palihapitiya, he's the most well-compensated investment banker in history.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
Now, what you have here is-
- KSKara Swisher
It's magic.
- SGScott Galloway
... in the last five days, the stock is up 55%.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
It's had its best week in history. Why? Because Larry Ellison figured out there should be a number two to NVIDIA, stopped doing stock buybacks, made a massive bet on being the number two infrastructure provider in AI, and announced an agreement where OpenAI was gonna commit to $60 billion a year in compute from Oracle, despite the fact that it's only running at 10 billion a year. And in one day, Larry Ellison increased his net worth $130 billion.
- KSKara Swisher
So he can afford the season-
- SGScott Galloway
Larry Ellison could buy (laughs) three Warner Brothers-
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
... with the gain in wealth he registered in one day. And this is where it all heads, and I think it's fucking fascinating, and I wish I had the time to do more about this, but instead I'm spending t- a ton of time trying to talk about young men and-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. No.
- SGScott Galloway
... and its relationship to online speech and everything. Anyways, I went to go see the Fantastic Four.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I hope there is never a sequel or a su- superhero movie ever again. I, I just-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... I hate these superhero films.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, this one didn't get good reviews. Superman did, but go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Anyways, uh, I love Vanessa Kirby. I think Pedro Pascal-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... is a movie star, and my son loves superhero movies. So we went. And like all 15-year-olds, or not all, my son makes me stay through to the very end because these goddamn-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, 'cause... (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... moviemakers always have an Easter egg at the very end.
- KSKara Swisher
Ah.
- SGScott Galloway
Do you realize-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... how long the credits went on for?
- KSKara Swisher
A long t- I've done it. I've done it, my friend.
- SGScott Galloway
Okay.
- 44:04 – 47:52
The End of Quarterly Earnings?
- KSKara Swisher
Trump is now suggesting the US public companies should no longer report earnings quarterly, but every six month. Um, I would think you might like this idea. I didn't hate it. I don't, but maybe not. No, shareholders should know what's happening at companies, although then people focus on the short term. Your thoughts, very quickly.
- SGScott Galloway
The reality is, is that, I mean, there's a fine line here. One, there's too much administrative and very costly burden on public companies. It costs two or three million dollars at least a year just to be public. More than that, CEOs, CFOs, IR professionals spend two weeks of their life every 12 weeks managing the earnings call and trying to figure out the right words and legal liability and the fallout from the markets. So, it makes sense that the administrative burden should lessen. Having said that, one of the reasons our market trades at 26 or 27 times PE and every other market trades from 22 to 12 is because of the regulatory burden. Orphans and widows are less likely to find out they own stock in Enron when they buy a company in the S&P versus a company... I was pitched by a hedge fund 10 years ago that said, "All we do is find fraudulent companies in China, and they're everywhere." Because the regulatory standards, and they have gone up the last 10 years, weren't as high. So, the whole idea of these regulatory standards is when you buy a company in the S&P 500, it may go down, it may not have a good future, but there's not, there's much less likelihood of outright fraud because of these regulatory constraints. Now, good private companies, every company I've run or been an investor in that's a good company, we do effectively what is an earnings call every three months. However, it's not the same level of regulatory burden. What I think is-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, they don't have it. Anyways.
- SGScott Galloway
What I think is gonna fill the void or the delta, quite frankly, and this is an opportunity, is some sort of AI good seal of approval. And that is, "Okay, company X, if you send us your financials and let us tap into your, um, APIs, we're every three months gonna put out a rating on the financial health." Basically, these companies every three months are to signal growth and also to make sure there's not fraud. I can see an AI Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval, Better Business Bureau, Rotten Tomatoes, which has become an arbiter of whether you wanna waste your time that says, "It doesn't look as if this company," similar to a Fitch or a Moody's or an S&P, "It doesn't look as if there is fraud here." It's got a 2% rating of fraud, not 99. Because you probably do n-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, that calls for more scrutiny then, not less. You, you, you like six months or do you not like six months?
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, I like it, because the, the reality is, the administrative burden, it goes back to the, what we said previously. There's too few companies that are public and there's too few companies for retail investors to pick from. Part of the reason companies are not going public is because of what has probably become burdensome regulatory oversight. Now, it's a, it's a fine needle to thread. You do want some disclosure requirements. I believe that AI will create a level of disclosure and fraud protection should you decide to engage in with it, that could give you a good h- Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval that it's unlikely fraud is taking place here. And there will be hopefully more public companies, because the reality is i- if you can bet on whether there's civil war, which you can right now in polymarket, should we really be infantilizing investors and not letting certain companies go public for risk or belief that we need to protect them? Jesus Christ, people can bet on the Super Bowl on their phone right now. So, if, you know, it, it, it's gone overboard. We need more public companies.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay. Okay. N-
- SGScott Galloway
We need retail investors to have access to more companies.
- KSKara Swisher
I thought you would like it.
- SGScott Galloway
I do like it.
- KSKara Swisher
I thought you would... I actually do too 'cause the short term thinking of all our companies is really problematic I think in a lot of ways. That's a bigger problem in the United States in America, but still. All right, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.
- 47:52 – 59:22
Wins and Fails
- KSKara Swisher
Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Would you like me to go first or you sh-
- SGScott Galloway
Please.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay. Guess what's coming back?... Hunting Wives, and they did the funniest, fun-
- SGScott Galloway
I, I thought you were gonna say The L Word or something.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) No, that is maybe coming back. Um, uh, the Hunting Wives is coming back for season two, and they did, I have to say-
- SGScott Galloway
What is it? What is it, the Hunting Wives?
- KSKara Swisher
... Malin Akerman ... It, w- you need to watch it.
- SGScott Galloway
I don't watch TV anymore.
- KSKara Swisher
Just watch it and then call me. Um-
- SGScott Galloway
Oh wait, is that the one with Charlize Theron-
- KSKara Swisher
The lesbians ... No.
- SGScott Galloway
... and s- and someone else make out?
- KSKara Swisher
No, that's another one.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, okay.
- KSKara Swisher
There's plenty of lesbian things, ah, material going on these days.
- SGScott Galloway
Okay.
- KSKara Swisher
But no, it's this, it's MAGA Christian gun-toting lesbians. So, there you go.
- SGScott Galloway
MAGA Christian gun-toting lesbians. I, whatever-
- KSKara Swisher
In Texas.
- SGScott Galloway
I, just what you said there, I'll say it twice.
- KSKara Swisher
Exactly. So it's coming back season two, and they did the best, Malin Akerman and Brittany Snow did the funniest, um, announcement u- using a cell th, cell, like a cellphone conversation that was very hysterical, and congratulations ladies. And I'm hoping to interview the creator of it 'cause it's just such so funny, it's exactly what we need at this moment, I have to tell you. It brings together MAGA and lesbians in a way that's really satisfying. I don't know how they did it, but they did it. That is my win. My fail is, ah, Donald Trump and his incessant lies, and especially Pulte, Bill Pulte, who is just a nepo baby imbecile, that accused this woman Lisa Cook of mortgage fraud-
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, it's bullshit.
- KSKara Swisher
... turns out. It's bullshit.
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs) Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Fuck-
- SGScott Galloway
He registered it as a vacation home.
- KSKara Swisher
... you, Bill Pulte. Oh my God, stop it. You liars. They just, they, they raise a l- this is what they do, they raise a lie and then they, ah, and then th- and then it's not true, but they've caused damage along the way. They do not care about the truth, and that is ... B- Bill Pulte, in any other place, so would Kash Patel, so would Pete Hess, so would Christie, you know, be fired for their incompo- their, like, rank incompetence. But as long as they salute at the, at the, at the leader, dear leader, they're gonna stay in their jobs. But that guy is really a heinous piece of shit. And let me tell you, Bill Pulte call me up. I, come and z- visit Kara Swisher 'cause what you did to this woman is reprehensible in term ... And I know why you're doing it, um, but it's grotesque. And at some point, ah, this has to stop. I, maybe it doesn't but it should stop. Anyway, that's my, that's my fail.
- SGScott Galloway
So funny, I don't know, one of my favorite movies is a movie called Hannah and Her Sisters.
- KSKara Swisher
It's Han- yes, yes.
- SGScott Galloway
And there's a scene, ah, Max von Sydow is having an affair with a much younger woman of the, w- who I thought was one of the most beautiful women in the m- I'm dating myself, but Barbara Hershey.
Episode duration: 59:22
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