PivotElon Musk Takes His Son To Work in Weird Oval Office Presser | Pivot
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
105 min read · 21,098 words- 0:00 – 1:51
Intro Chat
- KSKara Swisher
Turn off the electricity and let's dance.
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs)
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
Let's dance. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
How you doing, Scott? What's going on?
- SGScott Galloway
I'm doing okay. I, I just, um, hauled up five flights of stairs my 14-year-old's, uh, uh, beverage refrigerator, 'cause what is a 14-year-old without his own beverage refrigerator? Um-
- KSKara Swisher
I like a bevera... I just bought a beverage refrigerator.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, you and my son.
- KSKara Swisher
Do you know that?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but you deserve one. (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
I, I, I, we renovated our house. We're moving back in, and I thought, "I need a beverage refrigerator in my little pod room." I created a pod room, you know that? I have my own home pod studio like you. I'm trying to keep up with you. It's very nice. Yeah, but I got one of those old retro ones, and it's blue. What do you think?
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, really?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, I- I'm in favor of retro blue frig... I'm just, I'm actually very much an evangelist for beverages, but also-
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, me too.
- SGScott Galloway
... also, uh, um, yeah. Was it one of those, like, cool, what do they call it, Smeg? Or...
- KSKara Swisher
S- It's not Smeg, actually. Frigidaire. They... Someone bought the Frigidaire name and it has Frigidaire across it in that script. I'm very pleased. I'm very pleased with my refrigerator. I love a refrigerator.
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
I've always had beverage refrigerators and my kids have too. I think it's important. I have one in San Francisco. Uh, on my... I, I had to haul mine up the stairs too. Anyway, uh, we have a lot to get to today. My God, this, the news is insane, Scott. I have to tell you.
- SGScott Galloway
Won't stop. Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
It's nuts.
- SGScott Galloway
Won't stop.
- KSKara Swisher
Um, besides that weird Elon Oval Office presser with the kid saying whatever he was saying, um, we have also have how DeepSeak is threatening, uh, Tesla's dominance. We've got a million of things. Of course, it's all about fucking Elon. I'm so tired of him, but he's right in the middle of everything, so what are we gonna do? Uh-
- SGScott Galloway
What are we gonna do?
- KSKara Swisher
What are we gonna do? But first-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, Pr- President Trump said
- 1:51 – 10:21
Trump Talks to Putin
- KSKara Swisher
he and Russian President Vladimir Putin have agreed to start negotiating an end to the war in Ukraine. Trump and Putin had what was described as a lengthy and highly productive phone call on Wednesday. Trump later spoke with Ukraine's President, uh, Zelenskyy. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth offered some insights on what Ukraine can expect from a peace deal. Way to go, Pete, you know, telling th- people what we're gonna do before we negotiate. But go ahead.
- NANarrator
We will only end this devastating war and establish a durable peace by coupling allied strength with a realistic assessment of the battlefield. We want, like you, a sovereign and prosperous Ukraine, but we must start by recognizing that returning to Ukraine's pre-2014 borders is an unrealistic objective. Chasing this illusionary goal will only prolong the war and cause more suffering.
- KSKara Swisher
So, he, Hegseth also noted that NATO membership for Ukraine is not on the table. I mean, they've just, they just, uh, Russia sort of won at, at devastating cost to itself and to Ukraine. Um, but they're essentially saying, "Well, they got the land they got, and this is where we do." And I get that on some level. At the same time, it's kind of, uh, Putin's kind of won 'cause he was willing to put up with all those losses on his side and, and the da- the damage that they did to Ukraine on the other side.
- SGScott Galloway
This, this could have been written by Sergey Lavrov, who, the equivalent of their secretary of state or propaganda. Um, id- uh, what, what might be interesting or the wild card here is I'm not sure Europe is down with acquiescing to another murderous autocrat invading Europe and just saying, "Okay, it is what it is." I mean, wha- what, what Secretary Hegseth said is probably pretty accurate. It's very unlikely we're going back to the traditional borders.
- KSKara Swisher
That's correct.
- SGScott Galloway
But at the same time, you, the time you negotiate, you wanna negotiate from a place of strength. And what you've seen across Europe... And you could argue that's one of the benefits of not only, not only the invasion of Ukraine, but also, quite frankly, of Trump, who signaled, "I'm sick of supporting or giving everyone this very expensive, uh, military umbrella." But you have seen a dramatic increase in military spending across the EU.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
So I'm not sure the EU is gonna say, you know, "Ukraine, if you can't... If you don't wanna... If you don't wanna bend the knee at this moment, courtesy of whatever Trump and Hegseth say, we've got your back." And, uh, what's just remarkable about Ukraine is in every conflict, there's a new, there's a new weapon that kind of rears up, uh, whether World War I, it was tanks and bi-planes. World War II, radar, and yeah, yeah, and this is all about drones. And it's just incredible what they have been able to do with substantially less, uh, resources. So I think you negotiate from a position of strength, and when you start off with this type of rhetoric, you're basically... Thi- this, this could have been written by the Russians.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I agree. I think it's real... I, you know, this is what they said they were gonna do, so it's not a surprise. But Hegseth is just reading from a card, by the way. I don't think he has a, a fresh idea in his head ever. I think he's just handed things like the TV host that he was. Um, uh, y- this-
- SGScott Galloway
I heard he consulted with Jack Daniels before he gave the speech.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) Zelenskyy, who's basically been sidelined here, posted on X after the Trump call, writing, "No one wants, uh, peace more than Ukraine." I would imagine so given the devastation of his country. And i- it's just... I, I, I... The question is can y- can Europe have... Do- does Europe have... This is the goal Trump had, which is Europe should pay more of its own freight presumably, um, after we have been supportive of him for so, so long. And what he's doing is he's t- he's, he's acting like this is a real estate deal, right? Well, they're here.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, here's a deal. But-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... here's... The other wild-
- KSKara Swisher
What do you want?
- SGScott Galloway
The other wild card people aren't talking about is, you know who doesn't want peace?
- KSKara Swisher
Hmm?
- SGScott Galloway
... China.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
China was a real beneficiary of the war 'cause they get oil at dramatic, you know, on sale because Russia ... Because they've been essentially shunned by every other major oil consumer, um-
- KSKara Swisher
And then another country just went off of Europe ... of Russian oil the other day. They turned on the lights. They had kind of a weird Eurovision event, and they were like, "Fuck you, Russia."
- SGScott Galloway
It felt like a rave party. It's like-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) It's like, "Da, da, da, da."
- SGScott Galloway
"Let's drop some molly and turn off, turn off Russian gas."
- KSKara Swisher
"Turn off the electricity and let's dance. Let's dance." Yeah, I loved it.
- SGScott Galloway
"And now we dance."
- KSKara Swisher
I loved it. I loved the whole thing.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, it was pretty ... Wow, wow.
- KSKara Swisher
But, um, but, you know, it's this idea of giving into Russia. This is a realpolitik. Like, all right, they're there and ... It, it, we ... This NATO thing on top of it, it's like they should be in NATO. They wanna be in NATO. They're a European country, um, they are so innovative. Speaking of drones, I mean, this is, this was a technologic ... Uh, this was a ... To me, in 10 years, there'll be tons of technology going on there when this is all settled, which is a good thing, right? They'll create a really innovative, interesting country. But if they wanna be in NATO, let them in, be in NATO, and the fact that Hegseth did this is ... You know, we all want this war to end, obviously, for, especially for the people of Ukraine. Russia gets what it gets 'cause it invaded. I'm sorry for the people who died and Ru- the Russians, but I'm not because, uh, they did it, right? So, they have to pay their price, but, you know, to be attacked like this and then have us throw them under the bus is just not a surprise, not a surprise.
- SGScott Galloway
But you brought up ... You brought a key, a key point, and that is, while at the end of the day we might end up with some sort of commitment to not let Ukraine join NATO because there is ... You talk to Professor Jeffrey Sachs at Columbia, who I disagree with on almost every foreign policy-
- 10:21 – 15:52
Inflation Ticks Up
- KSKara Swisher
inflation numbers are out, and they're higher than expected. Inflation rose, uh, 3% in January, the fastest monthly increase since August of 20- uh, 23. The surging price of eggs was a big factor in the increase, up 53% from last year, which is fine with Kara as I noted. I'm not an egg fan. Uh, President Trump was quick to point a finger at these numbers, c- calling them Biden o- inflation up. Sorry, dude. You own the, you own the car right now. And for those expecting lowered interest rates, Fed Chairman Jerome Powell says inflation numbers show there's more work to be done, so Jerome was right and Trump is l- wrong. And now he's, he said ... He didn't fix the price of eggs on day one, which he promised several times, and now says it's Biden's and it'll take longer. Um, what do you think about inflation right now? Obviously we talked about it a lot in the Biden administration. It was a big factor in his loss.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I m- I mean, first off, to be fair, you can't pin egg prices-
- KSKara Swisher
Of course not.
- SGScott Galloway
... going up 53%. It's, it's the avian flu or whatever it is. But if you look at ... If you dig in, inflation is sort of a crude number 'cause there's core inflation. And if you, if you really get to the nut of it, the thing that drove a lot of this kind of uncomfortable number and is probably the reason why the Fed is now pulling back on what they thought were gonna be rate- or the market thought or anticipated were gonna be rate cuts is shelter. Housing costs, including hotel and motel rooms, rose 0.4%-
- KSKara Swisher
Crazy.
- SGScott Galloway
... last month. And I've always, I've always thought that ... And the Democrats need to get off their heels and whining and bitching and being outraged and get onto their toes and start proposing some really dramatic forward-looking solutions 'cause I think one of the ...I think one of the reasons we lost, Kara, was that we were seen as a party of the past, and, "Everything's fine," and, "Let's hold on to our tradition."
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And the Republicans are saying-
- KSKara Swisher
I sent you that essay. Did you, did you get that essay I sent you?
- SGScott Galloway
I don't read anything you send me.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, okay.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, it, it takes too much time, and it's usually, it's usually exceptionally...
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
It's like, uh, 140, a hundred-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, you're articulating exactly what that thing said, but go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
140 pages smeared over very woke toast.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay. Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, 140 IQ. It's very smart book.
- KSKara Swisher
It's not woke. It was like an economics... Anyway, go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Anyways, so I do wanna listen to that podcast you had with the three economists. But anyways, the, uh, uh, the really exciting thing would be, all right, how do we implement a CHIPS-like act for housing? Because if you unleash the real economy, there's a lot of great housing builders out there, Pulte, you know, there, there's a ton of... And say to them, "All right," I don't know if it's 3%, 5%, 10% tax subsidy, and also make it more difficult, um, for residents to sequester new housing permits. One of the biggest tragedies in American history-
- KSKara Swisher
NIMBY.
- SGScott Galloway
... I believe, was we took housing permits out of the hands of actually the bureaucrats we were trying to fire, and we put it into the hands of housing owners, who all of a sudden decided, "If I own a house, I don't want any more new houses built."
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. NIMBY, NIMBY.
- SGScott Galloway
But, but a dramatic... I would love the Democrats to propose a dramatic increase of tax subsidy, whatever it might be, that increases housing supply well beyond its current demand and says, "Within the next 10 years, we're gonna bring housing prices, uh, w- down dramatically."
- KSKara Swisher
You'd think Trump would do this, Mr. Real Estate, right? Instead he's, like, playing games in Ukraine.
- SGScott Galloway
It, it has such a huge psychological impact on our youth, because... And not only that housing formation. I don't know about you, when I, when I was younger and trying to figure out a way, like, not to get married, I said, "Okay, let's get a dog." And then it was like, "Okay, let's get a house." And when you get a house, it's really a commitment to each other, and you, you start saving. It's a great means of, of creating more... cementing of a bond with somebody.
- KSKara Swisher
Should you and I get a house together?
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, let me think. Uh, no.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
No. My housing strategy is very straightforward. It's a 0.1% strategy. Wealthy people are the most homogenous, boring people in the world, and that is... I'm convinced, essentially, income inequality is only gonna get worse. And the 0.1% are incredibly boring. They all wear Hermes ties. They party in St. Barts. They drive Range Rovers, and they want to live in one of six or seven places.
- 15:52 – 22:30
Elon in the Oval Office
- KSKara Swisher
Office. Scott, we're back. Elon Musk joined President Trump in the Oval Office on Tuesday to discuss his work at Doze, which I'm now calling Doggy. He gave a very casual explanation of what he's been up to. Let's listen.
- NANarrator
It's just common sense. It's not... it's, it's, it's not draconian or radical, I think. It's, it's really just saying, let's look at each of, each of these expenditures and say, "Is this actually in the best interest of the people?" And if it is, it's approved. If, if it's not, we should think about it.
- KSKara Swisher
Actually, in the best interests of Elon Musk, according to a lot of reporting, by the way, a lot of these cuts have to do with his businesses, and a lot of these attacks are mostly around things that affect him. Um, he said he speaks to Trump almost daily and checks with him before making decisions. Meanwhile, Trump signed an executive order giving Doggy even more power. Uh, the order requires the Doggy team, I like saying it like that, to be, uh, stationed at every government agency to oversee hiring decisions now, and will only allow agencies to hire one employee for every four that depart. Uh, aside from that, that was the weirdest visual I've ever seen, his, his four-year-old was there, uh, looking... What, what... Elon used to call this kid a cute prop, and that's what it was, and he kept talking to the president, who seemed out of it. Uh, Elon was casually dressed, sort of pontificating, saying he made... "So what if he made mistakes about the Gaza condoms? Who cares? Uh, he makes mistakes." Uh, it was the strangest thing I've ever seen, and Trump looked like he was drugged or something, but... I don't know, what, how were your thoughts on that?
- SGScott Galloway
I'm a big fan of bring your Elon to work days.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
I, I think it's... (laughs) I, I was praying that the little kid would start goose stepping.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
I think that would have... That would have been fitting. (laughs) Uh, "Tomor- Papa, tomorrow belongs to me."
- KSKara Swisher
Oh no, don't make kid jokes. Keep it out. Keep it out. Even Grimes was like, "That kid should not have been in public." You think?
- SGScott Galloway
You mean the same... Oh, hold on.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I don't... I think it's the same kid he put on his shoulders as he walked through the gates that said, "Work will set you free" at Auschwitz.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh my God. Okay. All right. (laughs) Okay. All right.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, that's true.
- KSKara Swisher
Now, with... Talk to me about this. I-
- SGScott Galloway
That's true.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, he did. You're right. He took him as a kid.
- SGScott Galloway
He used, he used his kid, he used his kid as a prop at Auschwitz. Anyways, I don't... I'm, I'm a big... I think it's great when-... people bring their kids to work, but when you use your kids as, it feels like the-
- KSKara Swisher
Ugh.
- SGScott Galloway
... kid is a bit of a prop right now. And-
- KSKara Swisher
He is. Oh, he's called it that.
- SGScott Galloway
And, uh, look, I don't, uh, i- i- i- it all, again, is like the gulf of distraction. And that is, uh, the inspector general who was looking into Musk's, um, uh, payments and business activities has been summarily fired, right? And I'm putting out a post tomorrow basically, what people don't realize is it's just so incredibly cynical, 'cause arguably one of the biggest welfare queens in history is Elon Musk, if you look at where a lot of these payments have gone, so a lot of this large S. So I find, like it's pretty obvious I have a bias against the guy, but I didn't, I thought it was smart for, for Trump visually to be sitting, like, "I'm more important," than to have him there standing. Um, I thought Elon looked good. I'm trying to be... I thought, I thought he had, I thought that fashion was kinda cool, the black hat and the like, the, the, the, um, you know, the, the, the jacket. But I thought, and I actually thought he handled the questions relatively well. So, you know, probably, probably a win for them, but I, I have a difficult time just ab- absorbing and processing any of this.
- KSKara Swisher
See, I did not... I had an exact opposite. I was like, "What is going on here? This is so strange," with the kid saying things to Trump. I mean, a lot of people put words in the kid's mouth. One was, "You need to shush now." But I don't know-
- SGScott Galloway
How, how much of that was real, do you know?
- KSKara Swisher
I don't know. I don't, I'm not even gonna go... Well, he was talking to the president, saying something. He was saying something, and, um, he shouldn't have, the kid shouldn't have been there. It w- it's such a weird thing to do, that. And I don't care, you can attack me all you want, this is not an appropriate place for a kid, largely for the kid's sake, not for, "You shouldn't have kids at work," or whatever. It's just, it, it, it's weird. It's weird, and the, the kid is gonna suffer for it. No m- I don't, I'm gonna make that parenting declaration right now. And, uh, his own mother said the same thing, by the way. Um, uh, but whatever. Musk wants to do it, and he gets to do whatever he wants. S- c- it was disrespectful to the office of what they were doing. I still believe that, I still believe in that, even if you don't, or necessarily, or people don't. I do. Um, let me just finish. Secondly, I thought Trump looked old next to Musk, and it looked like Musk was running the government. That, I thought, that's the visual I got out of it. But maybe that was too far off.
- SGScott Galloway
See, I, I think he, I think he, actually, Trump, given the fact that he is that old, I think Trump is remarkably robust and good-looking for a-
- KSKara Swisher
Sure is.
- SGScott Galloway
...
- NANarrator
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
So why was he sitting down and just looking out of it and saying nothing?
- 22:30 – 27:46
Sam Altman’s Response to Elon
- KSKara Swisher
CEO Sam Altman had some harsh thoughts about Elon Musk after his bid for the company. There's a lot been lack, lot of legal back and forth this week, by the way, about this. There's a lawsuit and then Musk made a, a bid which seems like a fake bid. Either it's a fake lawsuit or a fake bid, I can't tell. But let's listen to Sam Altman.
- SGScott Galloway
Do you think Musk's approach, then, is from a position of insecurity about xAI?
- NANarrator
Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity. I feel for the guy.
- SGScott Galloway
You feel for him?
- NANarrator
I do, actually. I don't think he's like a happy person. I do feel for him.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) The backhanded compliment. Well done, Sam. Um, in a court filing, OpenAI has said the bid contradicts legal claims. Musk made a lawsuit against the company last year. In fact, it does. Musk now says he's willing to drop the bid if OpenAI remains a nonprofit. By the way, there are emails where Musk indicates he wanted it to be a profit, um, company. So he's just, he, "Whatever works for me," he says at the time. As of Tuesday, Altman told employees the board hadn't received an official offer from Musk, which is probably true. I'm gonna believe Altman here over Musk. Um, uh, you know, he's just trying to slow him down. That- that's what it seems like. He'll say whatever it takes to slow, uh, OpenAI and, and drag it into controversy, and take advantage of people, uh, who either have left OpenAI or who have ill feelings towards Altman, et cetera, which is gonna be many.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I think, so it's, I think Sam has shown a great deal of discipline around his comms and his brand. I think he, I think he screwed up here. I think the, whether it's true or not, it might have felt good to say, "I feel for the guy," and that, yes, he's insecure. He just, I, I think he just should have said...... the, uh, you know, the offer isn't a serious offer, and I can't... I, you know, I have no idea what's going on with Elon Musk. I don't, I don't wanna... Uh, he... Sam has taken so far the high road around this, and he should continue to take the high road. He shouldn't take the bait and say... 'Cause that's basically saying he's insecure, and it must have felt good. And I get why he would do it. He's probably so sick of this guy.
- KSKara Swisher
I think so.
- SGScott Galloway
The, uh, wants to deploy law firm instead of actually competing against him, and is like this poltergeist who will not go away.
- KSKara Swisher
For all of us.
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs) That's absolutely fair. But Sam's brand is... He's... Sam comes across as the adult in the room, and he's very restrained, and he errs on the side of taking blows. And I, I, I don't think he should go there and say... You know, I mean that was a, that was, that was passive-aggressive minus the passive part.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, no. (laughs) That was like, "What an asshole." Yeah. I-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
I watched how he did it. He's... I've seen him do it before. Um, you know, these sideways attacks, and they're funny, and he's very... He's like... And I feel sorry for him, he's such an asshole. I feel sorry that he's an asshole.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but I think, I think-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... the bright answer would have been, "Of course, we had our lawyers look at it. We don't think there's any merit on it. We're focused on building a great product, so I'm, I'm not here to psychoanalyze-"
- KSKara Swisher
So which, which, which one do you think... This is just about slowing down. Both of us think that, that it's just about slowing down OpenAI, not a real, not a real lawsuit, and not a real bid.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, oh, this is-
- KSKara Swisher
Possibly could be, though.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but the, the-
- KSKara Swisher
With the board.
- SGScott Galloway
... only thing is, uh, if you're a public company and someone makes a bid for a certain class of shares, is the way I would describe this, then you have a duty, share, or obligation, to put together a special committee and look at... And I don't know if they have debt, if that changes anything, but-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, it's not clear, 'cause it's a nonprofit, if they have a special responsibility, but go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
But when you're basically a private company and everyone's making so much money, I just... Unless there's someone on the board of the nonprofit that also hates Altman, which might be the case, and wants to create trouble-
- KSKara Swisher
Now, he's sort of stacked it with friends of his.
- SGScott Galloway
... then they can pretty much do whatever they want. They don't... A public company has an obligation, the board has an obligation to get the highest offer and look at everything. A private company is basically a private company, and they can kinda do... You know, the shareholders, the shareholders, as represented by the board, can kinda do whatever the fuck they want. And I can't imagine any of them are gonna go, like, "Yeah, let's bring Elon in."
- KSKara Swisher
Well, in the case of Twitter, there was a really good, um... There, there were... There's been very good reporting, when, uh, uh, the CEO at the time said, "We have to look at this offer."
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm.
- KSKara Swisher
"It's an offer. It's a huge offer. I'm sorry to say we don't have a choice, even if he's an asshole," essentially. Like... And then they had to take it, 'cause it was so good and ridiculous, and so above their thing. In this case, they can do whatever they want. And it's not that far above it, and maybe the nonprofit gets more money or something like that. But there'll be laws. He'll just keep throw... Sh- Listen, Elon Musk has two moves, "I'll buy it," or, "I'll sue you." These are his two, like, big moves.
- 27:46 – 34:56
BYD + DeepSeek
- KSKara Swisher
Chinese electric car company, BYD, is bringing DeepSeek technology to its vehicles, of course. The EV maker has added advanced driver assistance systems in most of its vehicles, including a model that costs under $10,000. They're also continued to be adorable. The cheapest, uh, Tesla model on the market is $30,000. Tesla stock is down 17% in the last month, 'cause people are actually doing math, but... And not thinking that Musk will... Uh, that Musk is, Musk's ascendance will benefit Tesla necessarily. Um, you know, he's a CEO, but he's focused on a lot of other things. Um, Scott, this week, you talked, uh, to Alice Han, Chinese economist and director at Greenmantle, about this very thing. Let's listen.
- SGScott Galloway
How is our player, Tesla, domestically, who has its own manufacturing in China, faring against BYD domestically in China?
- NANarrator
Not well at all. I mean, the fact that T- uh, Tesla's still there surprises me somewhat, um, given its price point, and the fact that, uh, all these companies, including Tesla, have had to cut prices over the last few years because of the extremely competitive, uh, price war landscape. Uh, I think it's only a matter of time before that share starts to diminish even further. It's gonna be an open-ended question. And now this is gonna be, uh, based on the politics of it all, whether or not Elon Musk gets these autonomous vehicle licenses.
- KSKara Swisher
So explain that in better... Uh, ex- explain what she was saying there. And by the way, her accent is fantastic.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, I cannot tell you how impressed I am-
- KSKara Swisher
How British is she? Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... how impressed I am with this... with Alice Han. She's my find. Occasionally you find somebody and you think, "This person is, is a genius, and I wanna give them more sunlight." And she's one of those people. Anyways, she's essentially said that... I mean, if you look at what's happened to Tesla in Europe, it's not much better in China. In, uh, January, retail sales of Tesla in China were 16% lower year on year.
- KSKara Swisher
Why wouldn't you buy a BYD? They're great cars.
- SGScott Galloway
And-
- KSKara Swisher
They're great
- NANarrator
I agree.
- SGScott Galloway
... and, get this, 60% lower than in December. So, I mean, BYD... And BYD is now the number one EV car manufacturer in the world. Um, I'm... And, and going to a much broader point here, I think that the most important relationship that could evolve hopefully in the next three years... Let's assume that-... Musk or Trump w- supposedly he desperately wants a Nobel Prize, and so let me go to advising the president in a hopeful way. The most obvious way would be to solve the civil war in Sudan. Threaten both sides, work with both sides, and stop the killing. The other way would be if China and the US, uh, kissed and made up, the ... I mean, have you seen these cars? These cars are $10,000 EVs-
- KSKara Swisher
They're adorable.
- SGScott Galloway
... and really good.
- KSKara Swisher
As long as they're safe-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... they're, they're gonna raise question ... I've, I've had people write me about whether they're safe or not. They're like a-
- SGScott Galloway
Well, okay. If you-
- KSKara Swisher
I'm just saying-
- SGScott Galloway
... if you ... if you-
- KSKara Swisher
... they have to be if they're here. They have-
- SGScott Galloway
For another two or $3,000, you can-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... install a lot of airbags and a lot of safety features.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And in addition, I would even go further than that. I would create a bilateral AI commission where we h- I mean, supposedly 38% of AI engineers are Chinese in the US. I w- and when we don't cooperate with them, they develop their own chips, they, they have incentive to do things kind of in and around us. I would, I would have a bilateral AI, similar to what Oppenheimer's vision was for nuclear, where we share everything with each other, but we also commit to ensuring that AI is not used to create bioweapons by third parties or bad actors, because all we're doing is motivating the other to figure out workarounds to attack the other. The most important relationship in terms of a thawing right now would be the first and second-largest economy.
- KSKara Swisher
Talk about these autonomous vehicle licenses, that he needs them in China, right, if he can get these from the Chinese.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but, uh, uh, here's the Chinese playbook, and it's happening to Tesla. The Chinese playbook is very simple. "Oh, Google, oh, Meta, come on in." And then they watch, listen and learn, and then they steal their IP and prop up a local entrepreneur and capture the most of the value for the domestic market, and I think the same thing is happening to Tesla. A- do you ... I, I can't imagine a lot of that IP from Tesla didn't end up at-
- KSKara Swisher
I don't know about that.
- SGScott Galloway
... BYD.
- 34:56 – 38:55
NYC Mayor Eric Adams Avoids Prosecution
- SGScott Galloway
the script, but I'm just curious to get your quick reaction. Have you been following what's going on with Mayor Adams?
- KSKara Swisher
Yes. Yes.
- SGScott Galloway
Jesus.
- KSKara Swisher
Please do. I mean-
- SGScott Galloway
I mean-
- KSKara Swisher
... just paper play. He's not gonna be m- mayor soon. That's the thing. He's out. I ... Don't you think? I feel like he's not gonna be.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, God, I hope so. I mean-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, come on.
- SGScott Galloway
I, I, uh-
- KSKara Swisher
Nobody in New York likes him.
- SGScott Galloway
I agree. I, uh, no, I'm, I said I hope so.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, essentially what's, uh, effectively happened is he's instructed the DOJ or the ... to drop all, uh, prosecution efforts against, uh, Mayor Adams, and in exchange, Mayor Adams has agreed to comply with all, uh, efforts by ICE to d- uh, capture or retain or detain and deport. So what you have is, "I'll, I'll make sure that you are not subject to the same laws that every other citizen is subject to if you agree to go against your constituents and let our ICE people into," who knows, "churches or schools." I mean, this is really fucking ugly.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, no, it's utter pa- ... You know what, Eric Adams? You're a crook. Like, you're a crook. (laughs) You're a shitty crook, by the way. You don't ... y- you only want tickets to Istanbul. Like, what a loser. He's g- I ... You know, I know you're backing a particular candidate in New York. I forget who it was. Who was it who-
- SGScott Galloway
Whitney Tilson.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes. Um, but there's a bunch of people running. Uh, you know, there's a bunch of people that-
- SGScott Galloway
Well, the guy who will probably win is when Andrew Com- Cuomo-
- KSKara Swisher
Cuomo.
- SGScott Galloway
... actually announces that he's-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... he's in the race.
- KSKara Swisher
There's a bunch of very good candidates who are not-
- SGScott Galloway
It's a bunch of-
- KSKara Swisher
... going to be criminals.
- SGScott Galloway
... out-of-control progressives.
- KSKara Swisher
No.
- SGScott Galloway
One pragmatist named Whit- Whitney Tilson, who is a pragmatist, would be a great mayor, but probably doesn't have the name recognition. Governor Cuomo is gonna come in and probably just lock it, but-... but Kathy Hochul has, I believe, the power to removes... remove Mayor Adams, and she should.
- KSKara Swisher
She should.
- SGScott Galloway
This is really... This is, this is, this is corruption at the highest level.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, she should make an example of him.
- 38:55 – 41:40
Gulf of America vs. Gulf of Mexico
- KSKara Swisher
Gulf of Mexico is now the Gulf of America, at least on Google and Apple Maps in the US. Apparently there are consequences for not using the new name. Associated Press reporters have now been barred from multiple White House events after AP continues to use Gulf of Mexico in its reporting. Um, uh, the AP is calling this a violation of the First Amendment, but Press Secretary Carolyn Le- uh, Levitt, also known as Tracy Flick, says, "We reserve the right to decide who gets into the Oval, go, gets to go into the Oval Office." Oh my God. It's so stupid. Distraction, distraction, distraction. I'm gonna call it the Gulf of Scott. I don't give a fuck-
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, my, th-
- KSKara Swisher
... what people do to me. I don't give a fuck.
- SGScott Galloway
You saw, you saw my thread or whatever it is. I can't keep track. I just put out Gulf of Distraction. That's all this is. I don't... You know, what, what... Uh, who cares? I don't, I don't... F- fine. Call it that. I, I just don't...
- KSKara Swisher
It's so stupid. It's so stupid. It's so manifestly stupid. And I'm sure... I don't even think, like, "Oh, yay, we're calling it the Gulf of America." Whatever. Whatever.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. We'll show them.
- KSKara Swisher
We'll show them. Eh. I, I gotta tell you. I s- I'm loving the, the, the new president of Mexico so much. She's such a badass. I'm gonna try to interview her. Sheinbaum. She's like, "Uh, fuck you." Sh- you know, but at the same time she deals. She's a dealer too. Anyway, uh, it's a distraction. Google, you look like wimps, but whatever. You all... Nobody looks good. I'm gonna call it the Gulf of Scott. That's the end of it. All right, everybody?
- SGScott Galloway
I like it. I appreciate that. Gulf of Dog.
- KSKara Swisher
Gulf of Dog.
- SGScott Galloway
Dog Gulf.
- KSKara Swisher
Do- Dogi. No. Dog. Gulf of Dog? No, I like Gulf of Scott. No, Gulf of Galloway sounds good.
- SGScott Galloway
Right. Make-
- KSKara Swisher
Gulf of Galloway. It feels, like, real.
- SGScott Galloway
Make America Scottish again. (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
It feels like Ponce de Leon would have named it that, Gulf of Galloway. Anyway. All right. It's time for this week's Threads poll. This one's open-ended. What do you wish Democrats would do in response for... to the Trump administration's actions? What do you wish? We've had our opinions on that, something besides standing in front of a building and yelling. That's for sure. Visit us on Threads at pivotpodcastofficial to answer. By the way, have you noticed AOC is not outside of the buildings? She's not. Have you noticed that?
- SGScott Galloway
She's very calculating. She doesn't-
- KSKara Swisher
She's very calcul-... She does great online stuff. I'll tell you that. Sh-... Her and Pete are killing them, killing it.
- SGScott Galloway
She's just... She's not gonna be on the... go to the alumni cheerleading day where they have all these very cute 95-year-olds dressed up in pompoms. She's an actual cheerleader. She's a gangster.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
She's... And her-
- KSKara Swisher
She and Pete Buttigieg, I have to say, are very appealing. Uh, uh, it's two different people.
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm. They're, they're in the background managing their brand really strongly with an eye on 28. And they're not gonna, like, go down in some sort of, like, angry z- near zombie apocalypse movie. Um, yeah. They're, they're, they're too smart. They're-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Well, we'll-
- SGScott Galloway
Anyway.
- KSKara Swisher
We would love our listeners to write in what do you think they should do. And y- no violence please, if you don't mind. All right, Scott. One more quick break. We'll be back
- 41:40 – 47:57
Predictions
- KSKara Swisher
for predictions. Okay, Scott. Let's hear a prediction.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, so, you know, a broken clock can be right. I had... I, I was a prediction machine last night, and I wrote a bunch down.
- KSKara Swisher
You did? What, what happened?
- SGScott Galloway
Um...
- KSKara Swisher
What were you taking?
- SGScott Galloway
No. I was actually... I was actually sober, which was kind of frightening.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh. Mm-hmm. Interesting.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, even when I was... When I was ta-... When I was talking about... When you said that, that fuck, marry, kill thing, and I was talking-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) People love that.
- SGScott Galloway
... about making sweet, sweet love to Mark Zuckerberg, and I thought I'd grab-
- KSKara Swisher
You're still thinking about it, aren't you?
- SGScott Galloway
Oh my God. I can't get off it. Grabbing that chain, riding him like a dog, and singing, "Who's self-harming now, you wonton bitch?"
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
Oh my God. My nipples are getting hard.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
And at that moment, at that moment, I thought, "Maybe I don't need drugs. Maybe I don't need drugs." (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
No. No.
- SGScott Galloway
Anyways. Argh. This is all gonna come crashing down, Kara. Anyways, uh, last night, I had-
- KSKara Swisher
I'm getting notes from Lara saying, "No, no, no." But I say, "Yes, yes, yes," and therefore...
- SGScott Galloway
Oh. If that's wrong, we don't want to be right.
- KSKara Swisher
No, you don't. All right. Go ahead. Prediction.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, anyways, I do think-
- KSKara Swisher
Besides you and Mark, uh...
- SGScott Galloway
I think Tesla is about to experience its real first major existential crisis.
- KSKara Swisher
What?
- SGScott Galloway
Sales off.Oh, gosh. They're off-
- KSKara Swisher
Here you go again.
- SGScott Galloway
They're off it.
- KSKara Swisher
Here you go again.
- SGScott Galloway
Here I go again, I can't help it.
Episode duration: 47:57
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