Elon Musk Takes His Son To Work in Weird Oval Office Presser | Pivot

Kara Swisher 0:00 Turn off the electricity and let's dance.

Scott Galloway 0:03 (laughs)

Narrator 0:03 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 0:03 Let's dance. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway 0:15 And I'm Scott Galloway.

Kara Swisher 0:16 How you doing, Scott? What's going on?

Scott Galloway 0:19 I'm doing okay. I, I just, um, hauled up five flights of stairs my 14-year-old's, uh, uh, beverage refrigerator, 'cause what is a 14-year-old without his own beverage refrigerator? Um-

Kara Swisher 0:33 I like a bevera... I just bought a beverage refrigerator.

Scott Galloway 0:36 Yeah, you and my son.

Kara Swisher 0:36 Do you know that?

Scott Galloway 0:37 Yeah, but you deserve one. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 0:37 I, I, I, we renovated our house. We're moving back in, and I thought, "I need a beverage refrigerator in my little pod room." I created a pod room, you know that? I have my own home pod studio like you. I'm trying to keep up with you. It's very nice. Yeah, but I got one of those old retro ones, and it's blue. What do you think?

Scott Galloway 0:53 Oh, really?

Kara Swisher 0:54 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 0:54 Uh, I- I'm in favor of retro blue frig... I'm just, I'm actually very much an evangelist for beverages, but also-

Kara Swisher 1:00 Uh, me too.

Scott Galloway 1:02 ... also, uh, um, yeah. Was it one of those, like, cool, what do they call it, Smeg? Or...

Kara Swisher 1:07 S- It's not Smeg, actually. Frigidaire. They... Someone bought the Frigidaire name and it has Frigidaire across it in that script. I'm very pleased. I'm very pleased with my refrigerator. I love a refrigerator.

Scott Galloway 1:17 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 1:17 I've always had beverage refrigerators and my kids have too. I think it's important. I have one in San Francisco. Uh, on my... I, I had to haul mine up the stairs too. Anyway, uh, we have a lot to get to today. My God, this, the news is insane, Scott. I have to tell you.

Scott Galloway 1:31 Won't stop. Yeah.

Kara Swisher 1:31 It's nuts.

Scott Galloway 1:32 Won't stop.

Kara Swisher 1:32 Um, besides that weird Elon Oval Office presser with the kid saying whatever he was saying, um, we have also have how DeepSeak is threatening, uh, Tesla's dominance. We've got a million of things. Of course, it's all about fucking Elon. I'm so tired of him, but he's right in the middle of everything, so what are we gonna do? Uh-

Scott Galloway 1:48 What are we gonna do?

Kara Swisher 1:49 What are we gonna do? But first-

Scott Galloway 1:49 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 1:49 Uh, Pr- President Trump said

Kara Swisher 1:51 he and Russian President Vladimir Putin have agreed to start negotiating an end to the war in Ukraine. Trump and Putin had what was described as a lengthy and highly productive phone call on Wednesday. Trump later spoke with Ukraine's President, uh, Zelenskyy. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth offered some insights on what Ukraine can expect from a peace deal. Way to go, Pete, you know, telling th- people what we're gonna do before we negotiate. But go ahead.

Narrator 2:12 We will only end this devastating war and establish a durable peace by coupling allied strength with a realistic assessment of the battlefield. We want, like you, a sovereign and prosperous Ukraine, but we must start by recognizing that returning to Ukraine's pre-2014 borders is an unrealistic objective. Chasing this illusionary goal will only prolong the war and cause more suffering.

Kara Swisher 2:46 So, he, Hegseth also noted that NATO membership for Ukraine is not on the table. I mean, they've just, they just, uh, Russia sort of won at, at devastating cost to itself and to Ukraine. Um, but they're essentially saying, "Well, they got the land they got, and this is where we do." And I get that on some level. At the same time, it's kind of, uh, Putin's kind of won 'cause he was willing to put up with all those losses on his side and, and the da- the damage that they did to Ukraine on the other side.

Scott Galloway 3:14 This, this could have been written by Sergey Lavrov, who, the equivalent of their secretary of state or propaganda. Um, id- uh, what, what might be interesting or the wild card here is I'm not sure Europe is down with acquiescing to another murderous autocrat invading Europe and just saying, "Okay, it is what it is." I mean, wha- what, what Secretary Hegseth said is probably pretty accurate. It's very unlikely we're going back to the traditional borders.

Kara Swisher 3:44 That's correct.

Scott Galloway 3:44 But at the same time, you, the time you negotiate, you wanna negotiate from a place of strength. And what you've seen across Europe... And you could argue that's one of the benefits of not only, not only the invasion of Ukraine, but also, quite frankly, of Trump, who signaled, "I'm sick of supporting or giving everyone this very expensive, uh, military umbrella." But you have seen a dramatic increase in military spending across the EU.

Kara Swisher 4:13 Yeah. Yep.

Scott Galloway 4:14 So I'm not sure the EU is gonna say, you know, "Ukraine, if you can't... If you don't wanna... If you don't wanna bend the knee at this moment, courtesy of whatever Trump and Hegseth say, we've got your back." And, uh, what's just remarkable about Ukraine is in every conflict, there's a new, there's a new weapon that kind of rears up, uh, whether World War I, it was tanks and bi-planes. World War II, radar, and yeah, yeah, and this is all about drones. And it's just incredible what they have been able to do with substantially less, uh, resources. So I think you negotiate from a position of strength, and when you start off with this type of rhetoric, you're basically... Thi- this, this could have been written by the Russians.

Kara Swisher 4:59 Yeah, I agree. I think it's real... I, you know, this is what they said they were gonna do, so it's not a surprise. But Hegseth is just reading from a card, by the way. I don't think he has a, a fresh idea in his head ever. I think he's just handed things like the TV host that he was. Um, uh, y- this-

Scott Galloway 5:14 I heard he consulted with Jack Daniels before he gave the speech.

Kara Swisher 5:17 (laughs) Zelenskyy, who's basically been sidelined here, posted on X after the Trump call, writing, "No one wants, uh, peace more than Ukraine." I would imagine so given the devastation of his country. And i- it's just... I, I, I... The question is can y- can Europe have... Do- does Europe have... This is the goal Trump had, which is Europe should pay more of its own freight presumably, um, after we have been supportive of him for so, so long. And what he's doing is he's t- he's, he's acting like this is a real estate deal, right? Well, they're here.

Scott Galloway 5:45 Yeah, here's a deal. But-

Kara Swisher 5:46 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 5:46 ... here's... The other wild-

Kara Swisher 5:48 What do you want?

Scott Galloway 5:48 The other wild card people aren't talking about is, you know who doesn't want peace?

Kara Swisher 5:52 Hmm?

Scott Galloway 5:53 ... China.

Kara Swisher 5:54 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 5:55 China was a real beneficiary of the war 'cause they get oil at dramatic, you know, on sale because Russia ... Because they've been essentially shunned by every other major oil consumer, um-

Kara Swisher 6:06 And then another country just went off of Europe ... of Russian oil the other day. They turned on the lights. They had kind of a weird Eurovision event, and they were like, "Fuck you, Russia."

Scott Galloway 6:14 It felt like a rave party. It's like-

Kara Swisher 6:16 (laughs) It's like, "Da, da, da, da."

Scott Galloway 6:17 "Let's drop some molly and turn off, turn off Russian gas."

Kara Swisher 6:21 "Turn off the electricity and let's dance. Let's dance." Yeah, I loved it.

Scott Galloway 6:24 "And now we dance."

Kara Swisher 6:26 I loved it. I loved the whole thing.

Scott Galloway 6:27 Yeah, it was pretty ... Wow, wow.

Kara Swisher 6:28 But, um, but, you know, it's this idea of giving into Russia. This is a realpolitik. Like, all right, they're there and ... It, it, we ... This NATO thing on top of it, it's like they should be in NATO. They wanna be in NATO. They're a European country, um, they are so innovative. Speaking of drones, I mean, this is, this was a technologic ... Uh, this was a ... To me, in 10 years, there'll be tons of technology going on there when this is all settled, which is a good thing, right? They'll create a really innovative, interesting country. But if they wanna be in NATO, let them in, be in NATO, and the fact that Hegseth did this is ... You know, we all want this war to end, obviously, for, especially for the people of Ukraine. Russia gets what it gets 'cause it invaded. I'm sorry for the people who died and Ru- the Russians, but I'm not because, uh, they did it, right? So, they have to pay their price, but, you know, to be attacked like this and then have us throw them under the bus is just not a surprise, not a surprise.

Scott Galloway 7:21 But you brought up ... You brought a key, a key point, and that is, while at the end of the day we might end up with some sort of commitment to not let Ukraine join NATO because there is ... You talk to Professor Jeffrey Sachs at Columbia, who I disagree with on almost every foreign policy-

Kara Swisher 7:35 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 7:35 ... viewpoint, he would argue that we invited ... That Russia was backed into the corn- uh, corner because of the prospect of Ukraine joining NATO. And maybe ultimately you know that you're not going to let them join NATO, and America, for the most part, gets to make that decision. But you don't offer it up before the negotiations. You maybe even say, "And one way we'll guarantee their security moving forward is incorporating the new Ukraine into NATO." And then Russia freaks out and says, "Okay, if you take, you know, if you give back 60, 70, 80% of the territory." You don't, you don't show up and negotiate against yourself and offer that up before you need to. So ...

Kara Swisher 8:10 That's why you do all the negotiating for us, 'cause I'm always saying what I think on the top of my voice.

Scott Galloway 8:14 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 8:14 That's why I like working with you. You're always like, "And then we do this." I'm like, "What? Oh, all right. Okay, fine." Like, I don't know. Anyway, it's a shame, and I have to say, I have a lot of regard for Volodymyr, uh, Zelenskyy and not so much-

Scott Galloway 8:26 He's the most Churchillian character of this millennium so far.

Kara Swisher 8:29 They're gonna jam him out. That's the next thing. They're gonna find a way to get rid of him and put a pro-Russian government in there, no question. Anyway, and with the help of Pete Hegseth, I assume.

Scott Galloway 8:38 I, I would say I have more confidence actually in the EU. Uh, I, I don't think ... Keep in mind the EU is a large an economy. They have dramatically increased their military budget. And quite frankly, they still remember what happens when an autocrat is let ... when you give him ... when you say, "Okay, uh, here, you can have Poland or you can have this bit of France."

Kara Swisher 8:59 Yeah, it feels very Chamberlain, doesn't it? It feels very Anthony Chamberlain to me. Anyway. Well, we'll see where it goes, uh, but Pete Hegseth just reads things on a card, just so everybody knows.

Scott Galloway 9:09 Anthony Chamberlain?

Kara Swisher 9:10 Yeah, Anthony.

Scott Galloway 9:10 Wasn't it Neville?

Kara Swisher 9:11 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 9:11 Or was it Will Chamberlain?

Kara Swisher 9:11 Neville, Neville Chamberlain. Nev- Jerry Chamberlain.

Scott Galloway 9:13 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 9:13 I'm sorry, not Anthony. Neville Chamberlain. Uh, thank you for checking my historical references. Um-

Scott Galloway 9:18 It's so rare. It's usually that you're, you're the one telling me-

Kara Swisher 9:20 I know. I was just thinking of-

Scott Galloway 9:20 ... I got it wrong.

Kara Swisher 9:21 I was thinking of a different Anthony 'cause there's so many Anthony people in-

Scott Galloway 9:25 Richard Chamberlain from The Thornbirds.

Kara Swisher 9:27 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 9:28 With, with one of the hottest women ever, Rachel Ward.

Kara Swisher 9:32 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 9:32 We need to redo-

Kara Swisher 9:33 Oh, my God.

Scott Galloway 9:34 We need to redo-

Kara Swisher 9:34 Oh, my God. I lo- ...

Scott Galloway 9:34 We need to redo-

Kara Swisher 9:34 I just talked about The Thornbirds with someone when I was being interviewed this week-

Scott Galloway 9:38 Ugh.

Kara Swisher 9:38 ... from Australia 'cause I'm going to Australia in a week.

Scott Galloway 9:40 Oh, my God.

Kara Swisher 9:40 You know I'm going, uh-

Scott Galloway 9:41 Our Love Affair.

Kara Swisher 9:42 And I said-

Scott Galloway 9:42 His Commitment to God. I'm like, "Dude, just tell God to put-"

Kara Swisher 9:46 Just fuck her.

Scott Galloway 9:46 "Just tell ..." Yeah, oh, my God. Take that shit down-

Kara Swisher 9:50 Dad.

Scott Galloway 9:50 ... and let us watch.

Kara Swisher 9:51 I know, um-

Scott Galloway 9:51 Put it on-

Kara Swisher 9:52 Can I just tell you this?

Scott Galloway 9:52 Put it on cable and let them go at it.

Kara Swisher 9:54 You're not gonna believe this. I mention it to one of the interviewers from Australia. I'm like, "I love Australia, Thornbirds." And literally this person was maybe 12 years old. They're like, "What's that?" An Australian. I was like, "I need to go now. You don't know Thornbirds? I need to leave now." It was such a ... I watched that entire thing. I ate that right up. That was so good, that show. Anyway, the book was too, by the way. Um, anyway, we'll move on from that (laughs) . I don't know how we got to Thornbirds from Ukraine, but there we are. Uh, okay. The latest

Kara Swisher 10:21 inflation numbers are out, and they're higher than expected. Inflation rose, uh, 3% in January, the fastest monthly increase since August of 20- uh, 23. The surging price of eggs was a big factor in the increase, up 53% from last year, which is fine with Kara as I noted. I'm not an egg fan. Uh, President Trump was quick to point a finger at these numbers, c- calling them Biden o- inflation up. Sorry, dude. You own the, you own the car right now. And for those expecting lowered interest rates, Fed Chairman Jerome Powell says inflation numbers show there's more work to be done, so Jerome was right and Trump is l- wrong. And now he's, he said ... He didn't fix the price of eggs on day one, which he promised several times, and now says it's Biden's and it'll take longer. Um, what do you think about inflation right now? Obviously we talked about it a lot in the Biden administration. It was a big factor in his loss.

Scott Galloway 11:06 Well, I m- I mean, first off, to be fair, you can't pin egg prices-

Kara Swisher 11:10 Of course not.

Scott Galloway 11:10 ... going up 53%. It's, it's the avian flu or whatever it is. But if you look at ... If you dig in, inflation is sort of a crude number 'cause there's core inflation. And if you, if you really get to the nut of it, the thing that drove a lot of this kind of uncomfortable number and is probably the reason why the Fed is now pulling back on what they thought were gonna be rate- or the market thought or anticipated were gonna be rate cuts is shelter. Housing costs, including hotel and motel rooms, rose 0.4%-

Kara Swisher 11:37 Crazy.

Scott Galloway 11:37 ... last month. And I've always, I've always thought that ... And the Democrats need to get off their heels and whining and bitching and being outraged and get onto their toes and start proposing some really dramatic forward-looking solutions 'cause I think one of the ...I think one of the reasons we lost, Kara, was that we were seen as a party of the past, and, "Everything's fine," and, "Let's hold on to our tradition."

Kara Swisher 12:00 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 12:00 And the Republicans are saying-

Kara Swisher 12:01 I sent you that essay. Did you, did you get that essay I sent you?

Scott Galloway 12:04 I don't read anything you send me.

Kara Swisher 12:05 Oh, okay.

Scott Galloway 12:05 Um, it, it takes too much time, and it's usually, it's usually exceptionally...

Kara Swisher 12:10 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 12:10 It's like, uh, 140, a hundred-

Kara Swisher 12:11 Well, you're articulating exactly what that thing said, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 12:13 140 pages smeared over very woke toast.

Kara Swisher 12:16 Okay. Okay.

Scott Galloway 12:16 Um, 140 IQ. It's very smart book.

Kara Swisher 12:18 It's not woke. It was like an economics... Anyway, go ahead.

Scott Galloway 12:20 Anyways, so I do wanna listen to that podcast you had with the three economists. But anyways, the, uh, uh, the really exciting thing would be, all right, how do we implement a CHIPS-like act for housing? Because if you unleash the real economy, there's a lot of great housing builders out there, Pulte, you know, there, there's a ton of... And say to them, "All right," I don't know if it's 3%, 5%, 10% tax subsidy, and also make it more difficult, um, for residents to sequester new housing permits. One of the biggest tragedies in American history-

Kara Swisher 12:53 NIMBY.

Scott Galloway 12:53 ... I believe, was we took housing permits out of the hands of actually the bureaucrats we were trying to fire, and we put it into the hands of housing owners, who all of a sudden decided, "If I own a house, I don't want any more new houses built."

Kara Swisher 13:05 Yeah. NIMBY, NIMBY.

Scott Galloway 13:06 But, but a dramatic... I would love the Democrats to propose a dramatic increase of tax subsidy, whatever it might be, that increases housing supply well beyond its current demand and says, "Within the next 10 years, we're gonna bring housing prices, uh, w- down dramatically."

Kara Swisher 13:23 You'd think Trump would do this, Mr. Real Estate, right? Instead he's, like, playing games in Ukraine.

Scott Galloway 13:27 It, it has such a huge psychological impact on our youth, because... And not only that housing formation. I don't know about you, when I, when I was younger and trying to figure out a way, like, not to get married, I said, "Okay, let's get a dog." And then it was like, "Okay, let's get a house." And when you get a house, it's really a commitment to each other, and you, you start saving. It's a great means of, of creating more... cementing of a bond with somebody.

Kara Swisher 13:49 Should you and I get a house together?

Scott Galloway 13:52 Uh, let me think. Uh, no.

Kara Swisher 13:54 Okay.

Scott Galloway 13:54 No. My housing strategy is very straightforward. It's a 0.1% strategy. Wealthy people are the most homogenous, boring people in the world, and that is... I'm convinced, essentially, income inequality is only gonna get worse. And the 0.1% are incredibly boring. They all wear Hermes ties. They party in St. Barts. They drive Range Rovers, and they want to live in one of six or seven places.

Kara Swisher 14:15 Sounds like you, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 14:18 I, uh, invest what you know.

Kara Swisher 14:19 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 14:20 Um, and, you know, boner pills. Um, and two-headed glass dildos-

Kara Swisher 14:24 (laughs) Okay.

Scott Galloway 14:24 ... I'm still looking for an investment there. Anyways, but back to real estate.

Kara Swisher 14:27 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 14:27 Uh, the 0.1% all want to live in Dubai, London, New York, Palm Beach, Aspen, um, certain, certain parts of LA, and then there's maybe two or three close seconds. And they're all crowding into a small number of homes. And in addition-

Kara Swisher 14:43 I don't want to live in any of those places.

Scott Galloway 14:44 ... the secondary benefit is I want to make it such that my boys can avoid me. It's like, "Well, we can go to Tijuana and eat cheap lobster. We could go hang out at my dad's place, but we have to have lunch with him." Anyways, I don't know how we got here. But Trump... The Democrats need a housing act.

Kara Swisher 14:58 All right, but here's the thing, w- will- will this inflation stuff gonna stick? There's the tariffs, everything else, although they, they're kind of a paper tiger in that regard, for, for now at least. Um, i- is it gonna stick to him, this, this? 'Cause he made so many problems about fucking eggs. He went on and on about eggs. Is that gonna stick with, stick on him?

Scott Galloway 15:18 Well, my, my heart says yes, but my brain says, based on all previous track records-

Kara Swisher 15:23 Yeah, he doesn't... Nothing ever sticks to this guy. He's like Teflon.

Scott Galloway 15:25 ... if, if he can be found liable by a jury of his peers, uh, selected by both his defense and the prosecution and be found, uh, be found liable of sexual abuse, I'm not sure inflation is gonna stick to him. So, I would think, but what I probably know, or what I feel is yes, what I know based on fact patterns is no.

Kara Swisher 15:44 Yeah, so we have to offer positive things going forward. I agree with you. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, President Musk takes center stage in the Oval

Kara Swisher 15:52 Office. Scott, we're back. Elon Musk joined President Trump in the Oval Office on Tuesday to discuss his work at Doze, which I'm now calling Doggy. He gave a very casual explanation of what he's been up to. Let's listen.

Narrator 16:03 It's just common sense. It's not... it's, it's, it's not draconian or radical, I think. It's, it's really just saying, let's look at each of, each of these expenditures and say, "Is this actually in the best interest of the people?" And if it is, it's approved. If, if it's not, we should think about it.

Kara Swisher 16:18 Actually, in the best interests of Elon Musk, according to a lot of reporting, by the way, a lot of these cuts have to do with his businesses, and a lot of these attacks are mostly around things that affect him. Um, he said he speaks to Trump almost daily and checks with him before making decisions. Meanwhile, Trump signed an executive order giving Doggy even more power. Uh, the order requires the Doggy team, I like saying it like that, to be, uh, stationed at every government agency to oversee hiring decisions now, and will only allow agencies to hire one employee for every four that depart. Uh, aside from that, that was the weirdest visual I've ever seen, his, his four-year-old was there, uh, looking... What, what... Elon used to call this kid a cute prop, and that's what it was, and he kept talking to the president, who seemed out of it. Uh, Elon was casually dressed, sort of pontificating, saying he made... "So what if he made mistakes about the Gaza condoms? Who cares? Uh, he makes mistakes." Uh, it was the strangest thing I've ever seen, and Trump looked like he was drugged or something, but... I don't know, what, how were your thoughts on that?

Scott Galloway 17:21 I'm a big fan of bring your Elon to work days.

Kara Swisher 17:24 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 17:24 I, I think it's... (laughs) I, I was praying that the little kid would start goose stepping.

Kara Swisher 17:29 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 17:29 I think that would have... That would have been fitting. (laughs) Uh, "Tomor- Papa, tomorrow belongs to me."

Kara Swisher 17:38 Oh no, don't make kid jokes. Keep it out. Keep it out. Even Grimes was like, "That kid should not have been in public." You think?

Scott Galloway 17:44 You mean the same... Oh, hold on.

Kara Swisher 17:46 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 17:46 I don't... I think it's the same kid he put on his shoulders as he walked through the gates that said, "Work will set you free" at Auschwitz.

Kara Swisher 17:51 Oh my God. Okay. All right. (laughs) Okay. All right.

Scott Galloway 17:53 Well, that's true.

Kara Swisher 17:54 Now, with... Talk to me about this. I-

Scott Galloway 17:55 That's true.

Kara Swisher 17:56 Yes, he did. You're right. He took him as a kid.

Scott Galloway 17:57 He used, he used his kid, he used his kid as a prop at Auschwitz. Anyways, I don't... I'm, I'm a big... I think it's great when-... people bring their kids to work, but when you use your kids as, it feels like the-

Kara Swisher 18:09 Ugh.

Scott Galloway 18:09 ... kid is a bit of a prop right now. And-

Kara Swisher 18:12 He is. Oh, he's called it that.

Scott Galloway 18:14 And, uh, look, I don't, uh, i- i- i- it all, again, is like the gulf of distraction. And that is, uh, the inspector general who was looking into Musk's, um, uh, payments and business activities has been summarily fired, right? And I'm putting out a post tomorrow basically, what people don't realize is it's just so incredibly cynical, 'cause arguably one of the biggest welfare queens in history is Elon Musk, if you look at where a lot of these payments have gone, so a lot of this large S. So I find, like it's pretty obvious I have a bias against the guy, but I didn't, I thought it was smart for, for Trump visually to be sitting, like, "I'm more important," than to have him there standing. Um, I thought Elon looked good. I'm trying to be... I thought, I thought he had, I thought that fashion was kinda cool, the black hat and the like, the, the, the, um, you know, the, the, the jacket. But I thought, and I actually thought he handled the questions relatively well. So, you know, probably, probably a win for them, but I, I have a difficult time just ab- absorbing and processing any of this.

Kara Swisher 19:18 See, I did not... I had an exact opposite. I was like, "What is going on here? This is so strange," with the kid saying things to Trump. I mean, a lot of people put words in the kid's mouth. One was, "You need to shush now." But I don't know-

Scott Galloway 19:29 How, how much of that was real, do you know?

Kara Swisher 19:30 I don't know. I don't, I'm not even gonna go... Well, he was talking to the president, saying something. He was saying something, and, um, he shouldn't have, the kid shouldn't have been there. It w- it's such a weird thing to do, that. And I don't care, you can attack me all you want, this is not an appropriate place for a kid, largely for the kid's sake, not for, "You shouldn't have kids at work," or whatever. It's just, it, it, it's weird. It's weird, and the, the kid is gonna suffer for it. No m- I don't, I'm gonna make that parenting declaration right now. And, uh, his own mother said the same thing, by the way. Um, uh, but whatever. Musk wants to do it, and he gets to do whatever he wants. S- c- it was disrespectful to the office of what they were doing. I still believe that, I still believe in that, even if you don't, or necessarily, or people don't. I do. Um, let me just finish. Secondly, I thought Trump looked old next to Musk, and it looked like Musk was running the government. That, I thought, that's the visual I got out of it. But maybe that was too far off.

Scott Galloway 20:24 See, I, I think he, I think he, actually, Trump, given the fact that he is that old, I think Trump is remarkably robust and good-looking for a-

Kara Swisher 20:30 Sure is.

Scott Galloway 20:31 ...

Narrator 20:31 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 20:31 So why was he sitting down and just looking out of it and saying nothing?

Scott Galloway 20:34 Uh, I think it's a, uh, I think it was sort of a power move. But a couple things come up. One, the kid was totally distracting for me. And he's doing... I do the same thing. I, I put out pictures on social of my dogs, one, because I think they're great and they are beautiful dogs, and two, I think it makes me more likable. I do the same thing. So, I understand what he's trying to do. The thing that propped up in my mind is I have good friends who, uh, and I got this practice from them, every five years they sit each other down and they say, "Logistics and money aside," which is a pos- position of privilege, "what would y- what could we do that would make you really happy?" And my friend said, I think it was about five years ago, "I'd like to sail around the world with the family." So they spent two years planning how to homeschool their kids on a boat, how to build a boat that could, could circumvent, navigate the globe, and they did it. They circumnavigated the globe. And there were some exceptionally scary moments, be it involving pirates, rough seas, when you got like a seven-year-old on the boat. If the seven-year-old goes over, there's no getting him back. And then a- and what they said to me was, I said, "Would you do it again?" I, I tried to talk them out of it. These are good friends. I'm like, "I just don't think this is a good idea. I wouldn't do it. And there's certain bodies of water, I would just take a plane. You don't need bragging rights, you're both incredibly impressive people." And I said, "Would you do it again?" And they said, "Not until our kids could give consent." Because they said there were just some moments where, that were very scary. And I feel the same way about this. If you're the president and you have children, it's one thing to have those moments, but I, I don't know, does, do you really take your kid to a concentration camp?

Kara Swisher 22:13 Yeah, he's focused on the kids. I'd, I, I'm focusing on Elon. I agree, this, the kid should not have been there. Um, but, but-

Scott Galloway 22:18 I thought the whole thing was so fucking weird.

Kara Swisher 22:19 It was weird. It was just a weird thing, and I thought Trump did look aged. And I don't think he looked powerful. I thought he looked like the kid and he were just over playing with blocks over here and Elon was running the government. Anyway, um, OpenAI

Kara Swisher 22:30 CEO Sam Altman had some harsh thoughts about Elon Musk after his bid for the company. There's a lot been lack, lot of legal back and forth this week, by the way, about this. There's a lawsuit and then Musk made a, a bid which seems like a fake bid. Either it's a fake lawsuit or a fake bid, I can't tell. But let's listen to Sam Altman.

Scott Galloway 22:46 Do you think Musk's approach, then, is from a position of insecurity about xAI?

Narrator 22:49 Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity. I feel for the guy.

Scott Galloway 22:53 You feel for him?

Narrator 22:54 I do, actually. I don't think he's like a happy person. I do feel for him.

Kara Swisher 22:58 (laughs) The backhanded compliment. Well done, Sam. Um, in a court filing, OpenAI has said the bid contradicts legal claims. Musk made a lawsuit against the company last year. In fact, it does. Musk now says he's willing to drop the bid if OpenAI remains a nonprofit. By the way, there are emails where Musk indicates he wanted it to be a profit, um, company. So he's just, he, "Whatever works for me," he says at the time. As of Tuesday, Altman told employees the board hadn't received an official offer from Musk, which is probably true. I'm gonna believe Altman here over Musk. Um, uh, you know, he's just trying to slow him down. That- that's what it seems like. He'll say whatever it takes to slow, uh, OpenAI and, and drag it into controversy, and take advantage of people, uh, who either have left OpenAI or who have ill feelings towards Altman, et cetera, which is gonna be many.

Scott Galloway 23:45 Yeah, I think, so it's, I think Sam has shown a great deal of discipline around his comms and his brand. I think he, I think he screwed up here. I think the, whether it's true or not, it might have felt good to say, "I feel for the guy," and that, yes, he's insecure. He just, I, I think he just should have said...... the, uh, you know, the offer isn't a serious offer, and I can't... I, you know, I have no idea what's going on with Elon Musk. I don't, I don't wanna... Uh, he... Sam has taken so far the high road around this, and he should continue to take the high road. He shouldn't take the bait and say... 'Cause that's basically saying he's insecure, and it must have felt good. And I get why he would do it. He's probably so sick of this guy.

Kara Swisher 24:19 I think so.

Scott Galloway 24:20 The, uh, wants to deploy law firm instead of actually competing against him, and is like this poltergeist who will not go away.

Kara Swisher 24:26 For all of us.

Scott Galloway 24:28 (laughs) That's absolutely fair. But Sam's brand is... He's... Sam comes across as the adult in the room, and he's very restrained, and he errs on the side of taking blows. And I, I, I don't think he should go there and say... You know, I mean that was a, that was, that was passive-aggressive minus the passive part.

Kara Swisher 24:47 Oh, no. (laughs) That was like, "What an asshole." Yeah. I-

Scott Galloway 24:50 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 24:50 I watched how he did it. He's... I've seen him do it before. Um, you know, these sideways attacks, and they're funny, and he's very... He's like... And I feel sorry for him, he's such an asshole. I feel sorry that he's an asshole.

Scott Galloway 25:00 Yeah, but I think, I think-

Kara Swisher 25:01 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 25:01 ... the bright answer would have been, "Of course, we had our lawyers look at it. We don't think there's any merit on it. We're focused on building a great product, so I'm, I'm not here to psychoanalyze-"

Kara Swisher 25:08 So which, which, which one do you think... This is just about slowing down. Both of us think that, that it's just about slowing down OpenAI, not a real, not a real lawsuit, and not a real bid.

Scott Galloway 25:18 Uh, oh, this is-

Kara Swisher 25:18 Possibly could be, though.

Scott Galloway 25:20 Yeah, but the, the-

Kara Swisher 25:20 With the board.

Scott Galloway 25:20 ... only thing is, uh, if you're a public company and someone makes a bid for a certain class of shares, is the way I would describe this, then you have a duty, share, or obligation, to put together a special committee and look at... And I don't know if they have debt, if that changes anything, but-

Kara Swisher 25:34 Yeah, it's not clear, 'cause it's a nonprofit, if they have a special responsibility, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway 25:38 But when you're basically a private company and everyone's making so much money, I just... Unless there's someone on the board of the nonprofit that also hates Altman, which might be the case, and wants to create trouble-

Kara Swisher 25:47 Now, he's sort of stacked it with friends of his.

Scott Galloway 25:49 ... then they can pretty much do whatever they want. They don't... A public company has an obligation, the board has an obligation to get the highest offer and look at everything. A private company is basically a private company, and they can kinda do... You know, the shareholders, the shareholders, as represented by the board, can kinda do whatever the fuck they want. And I can't imagine any of them are gonna go, like, "Yeah, let's bring Elon in."

Kara Swisher 26:12 Well, in the case of Twitter, there was a really good, um... There, there were... There's been very good reporting, when, uh, uh, the CEO at the time said, "We have to look at this offer."

Scott Galloway 26:20 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 26:20 "It's an offer. It's a huge offer. I'm sorry to say we don't have a choice, even if he's an asshole," essentially. Like... And then they had to take it, 'cause it was so good and ridiculous, and so above their thing. In this case, they can do whatever they want. And it's not that far above it, and maybe the nonprofit gets more money or something like that. But there'll be laws. He'll just keep throw... Sh- Listen, Elon Musk has two moves, "I'll buy it," or, "I'll sue you." These are his two, like, big moves.

Scott Galloway 26:44 But he, he, he wouldn't buy it.

Kara Swisher 26:44 And sometimes it works-

Scott Galloway 26:45 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 26:45 ... and sometimes it doesn't, right? But-

Scott Galloway 26:47 He doesn't have the money to buy... Because if he were to buy it, he would have to ma- Uh, look, the m- the more inter- Actually, the more interesting kinda thing that no one wat- I, I actually read or looked at, um, which is Latin for had one of my analysts read, um, the earnings call from SoftBank. And a bunch of people asked questions about this anticipated investment in OpenAI at 340 or $300 billion pre-money valuation. And basically, in so many words, they said, "What the fuck are you thinking? Can you please explain this? And what will be the structure of the investment?" So I'm now beginning to think that that investment might be at risk, because a lot of the analysts on the call were, "What are you doing? This makes no sense." So for the first time, I'm now wondering if, if SoftBank actually reduces their commitment to that round.

Kara Swisher 27:32 Right, right.

Scott Galloway 27:33 Anyway.

Kara Swisher 27:33 Yeah, well, that's exactly what Musk wants to happen, right? That's exactly what he wants to do. He wants to cut them off at the knees. He's very clever that way. All right, uh, Scott, uh, let's go on a quick break. How DeepSeek is threatening Tesla is next. Scott, we're back.

Kara Swisher 27:46 Chinese electric car company, BYD, is bringing DeepSeek technology to its vehicles, of course. The EV maker has added advanced driver assistance systems in most of its vehicles, including a model that costs under $10,000. They're also continued to be adorable. The cheapest, uh, Tesla model on the market is $30,000. Tesla stock is down 17% in the last month, 'cause people are actually doing math, but... And not thinking that Musk will... Uh, that Musk is, Musk's ascendance will benefit Tesla necessarily. Um, you know, he's a CEO, but he's focused on a lot of other things. Um, Scott, this week, you talked, uh, to Alice Han, Chinese economist and director at Greenmantle, about this very thing. Let's listen.

Scott Galloway 28:26 How is our player, Tesla, domestically, who has its own manufacturing in China, faring against BYD domestically in China?

Narrator 28:33 Not well at all. I mean, the fact that T- uh, Tesla's still there surprises me somewhat, um, given its price point, and the fact that, uh, all these companies, including Tesla, have had to cut prices over the last few years because of the extremely competitive, uh, price war landscape. Uh, I think it's only a matter of time before that share starts to diminish even further. It's gonna be an open-ended question. And now this is gonna be, uh, based on the politics of it all, whether or not Elon Musk gets these autonomous vehicle licenses.

Kara Swisher 29:04 So explain that in better... Uh, ex- explain what she was saying there. And by the way, her accent is fantastic.

Scott Galloway 29:09 Oh, I cannot tell you how impressed I am-

Kara Swisher 29:12 How British is she? Yeah.

Scott Galloway 29:12 ... how impressed I am with this... with Alice Han. She's my find. Occasionally you find somebody and you think, "This person is, is a genius, and I wanna give them more sunlight." And she's one of those people. Anyways, she's essentially said that... I mean, if you look at what's happened to Tesla in Europe, it's not much better in China. In, uh, January, retail sales of Tesla in China were 16% lower year on year.

Kara Swisher 29:39 Why wouldn't you buy a BYD? They're great cars.

Scott Galloway 29:41 And-

Kara Swisher 29:41 They're great

Narrator 29:42 I agree.

Scott Galloway 29:42 ... and, get this, 60% lower than in December. So, I mean, BYD... And BYD is now the number one EV car manufacturer in the world. Um, I'm... And, and going to a much broader point here, I think that the most important relationship that could evolve hopefully in the next three years... Let's assume that-... Musk or Trump w- supposedly he desperately wants a Nobel Prize, and so let me go to advising the president in a hopeful way. The most obvious way would be to solve the civil war in Sudan. Threaten both sides, work with both sides, and stop the killing. The other way would be if China and the US, uh, kissed and made up, the ... I mean, have you seen these cars? These cars are $10,000 EVs-

Kara Swisher 30:30 They're adorable.

Scott Galloway 30:30 ... and really good.

Kara Swisher 30:30 As long as they're safe-

Scott Galloway 30:31 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 30:31 ... they're, they're gonna raise question ... I've, I've had people write me about whether they're safe or not. They're like a-

Scott Galloway 30:35 Well, okay. If you-

Kara Swisher 30:37 I'm just saying-

Scott Galloway 30:37 ... if you ... if you-

Kara Swisher 30:37 ... they have to be if they're here. They have-

Scott Galloway 30:39 For another two or $3,000, you can-

Kara Swisher 30:41 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 30:41 ... install a lot of airbags and a lot of safety features.

Kara Swisher 30:43 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 30:43 And in addition, I would even go further than that. I would create a bilateral AI commission where we h- I mean, supposedly 38% of AI engineers are Chinese in the US. I w- and when we don't cooperate with them, they develop their own chips, they, they have incentive to do things kind of in and around us. I would, I would have a bilateral AI, similar to what Oppenheimer's vision was for nuclear, where we share everything with each other, but we also commit to ensuring that AI is not used to create bioweapons by third parties or bad actors, because all we're doing is motivating the other to figure out workarounds to attack the other. The most important relationship in terms of a thawing right now would be the first and second-largest economy.

Kara Swisher 31:26 Talk about these autonomous vehicle licenses, that he needs them in China, right, if he can get these from the Chinese.

Scott Galloway 31:33 Yeah, but, uh, uh, here's the Chinese playbook, and it's happening to Tesla. The Chinese playbook is very simple. "Oh, Google, oh, Meta, come on in." And then they watch, listen and learn, and then they steal their IP and prop up a local entrepreneur and capture the most of the value for the domestic market, and I think the same thing is happening to Tesla. A- do you ... I, I can't imagine a lot of that IP from Tesla didn't end up at-

Kara Swisher 31:59 I don't know about that.

Scott Galloway 31:59 ... BYD.

Kara Swisher 31:59 I do think that Ch- I, I am of the feel, feel ... I agree with you about sort of, uh, the fast follower, right? The plains are covered with the bodies of pioneers, that kinda thing. Uh, that said, I do think there's a ton of innova- I think, uh, you can see it through TikTok, I think what, what, um, Alibaba has done, there's a lotta innovation there too of their own, but they definitely wait, watch-

Scott Galloway 32:18 And battery too.

Kara Swisher 32:18 ... and then innovate, but-

Scott Galloway 32:19 They're leading in batteries too.

Kara Swisher 32:20 Yeah, I don't think they necessarily steal every minute of the day, um, but there is that. But it's, it's ... these cars are very different than anything I've seen, so it's not like they're copying, right? They're sort of copying, but there's also innovations around it that I, I have never wanted to buy a car more than a BYD car, and I love my Ford, uh, I love my, my Bolt, as you know, and I do, I think it's adorable too.

Scott Galloway 32:41 BYD sales plummet-

Kara Swisher 32:43 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 32:43 ... day after podcast. You literally-

Kara Swisher 32:45 Um.

Scott Galloway 32:45 You have the worst taste in cars.

Kara Swisher 32:46 I know, but-

Scott Galloway 32:47 Anyway.

Kara Swisher 32:47 ... have, have you seen them? I like ... they're inexpensive.

Scott Galloway 32:49 They're beautiful.

Kara Swisher 32:49 They're beautiful.

Scott Galloway 32:49 They're super cool.

Kara Swisher 32:50 And they're cool, and if you're a young person-

Scott Galloway 32:52 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 32:52 ... you'd want one. Um-

Scott Galloway 32:53 Oh, 100%.

Kara Swisher 32:54 ... a s- in a second they look to me like ... I don't mean they're ... they're kind of like a-

Scott Galloway 32:58 It's like the V- it's like the new VW Bug, but-

Kara Swisher 33:00 It's a Uniqlo-

Scott Galloway 33:00 ... with technology.

Kara Swisher 33:01 ... of cars.

Scott Galloway 33:02 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 33:02 You know? Like, when I forget Uniqlo-

Scott Galloway 33:03 Great analogy.

Kara Swisher 33:03 ... I buy 10, 10, 10 shirts. I ... Like, they love them, and I have to say I love them. I don't think I'm using them as just throw them out. They're just inexpensive and adorable. I just-

Scott Galloway 33:13 It's-

Kara Swisher 33:13 I mean, and I look adorable, by the way.

Scott Galloway 33:14 It's, it's the car equivalent of fast fashion.

Kara Swisher 33:16 It is.

Scott Galloway 33:17 It's like we have figured out supply chain to just bring you something for dramatically less money.

Kara Swisher 33:21 A- and, and is ... uh, as long as they figure out the safety, which they'd have to in this country. I agree. I think, uh, he's just ... Here's the deal. Musk does not make cars that are interesting anymore. That's all. It's an interesting car. It was an innovation. He hasn't ... You have to update these things for consumers, and he's, he does ... I don't think he cares about the cars anymore. That's my feeling. Some better news for Tesla and Marco Rubio. Uh, in a totally normal deal that had no strings attached, the State Department procurement forecast for 2025 includes $400 million in armored Tesla vehicles. At least someone is buying them besides douche nozzle men. They tried to hide it, but they, they had Tesla on there. Um, they changed it to armored vehicles and their Tes- their, their, their Cybertrucks. Um, nobody else wants to buy them. Consumers don't seem ... a small group of consumers do, of course, uh, as there would be, but it seems like it's a m- m- you know, one of those things people buy 'cause it's weird and interesting. Um, but nobody is, uh, buying them, and there are very few people that are buying them, and now the government is buying them, another gimme for Elon Musk. The grift keeps grifting, I feel. Go ahead.

Scott Galloway 34:27 Yeah. That's, that's exactly right. We're ... the, the only thing propping up Tesla stock right now is, um, and his wealth, is this basic, the market has said this is now a kleptocracy and your proximity to power is more important than your innovation.

Kara Swisher 34:42 Right, right.

Scott Galloway 34:42 But-

Kara Swisher 34:42 So they're buying them from him.

Scott Galloway 34:44 Yeah, and also firing people who were investigating the company and getting, getting rid of them, and it, yeah, it's-

Kara Swisher 34:51 I guess that's a plus.

Scott Galloway 34:52 Yeah, it's even ... unfortunately, it's even ... and this isn't in

Scott Galloway 34:56 the script, but I'm just curious to get your quick reaction. Have you been following what's going on with Mayor Adams?

Kara Swisher 35:01 Yes. Yes.

Scott Galloway 35:02 Jesus.

Kara Swisher 35:02 Please do. I mean-

Scott Galloway 35:03 I mean-

Kara Swisher 35:03 ... just paper play. He's not gonna be m- mayor soon. That's the thing. He's out. I ... Don't you think? I feel like he's not gonna be.

Scott Galloway 35:10 Oh, God, I hope so. I mean-

Kara Swisher 35:12 Oh, come on.

Scott Galloway 35:13 I, I, uh-

Kara Swisher 35:13 Nobody in New York likes him.

Scott Galloway 35:14 I agree. I, uh, no, I'm, I said I hope so.

Kara Swisher 35:18 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 35:18 I mean, essentially what's, uh, effectively happened is he's instructed the DOJ or the ... to drop all, uh, prosecution efforts against, uh, Mayor Adams, and in exchange, Mayor Adams has agreed to comply with all, uh, efforts by ICE to d- uh, capture or retain or detain and deport. So what you have is, "I'll, I'll make sure that you are not subject to the same laws that every other citizen is subject to if you agree to go against your constituents and let our ICE people into," who knows, "churches or schools." I mean, this is really fucking ugly.

Kara Swisher 35:55 Oh, no, it's utter pa- ... You know what, Eric Adams? You're a crook. Like, you're a crook. (laughs) You're a shitty crook, by the way. You don't ... y- you only want tickets to Istanbul. Like, what a loser. He's g- I ... You know, I know you're backing a particular candidate in New York. I forget who it was. Who was it who-

Scott Galloway 36:09 Whitney Tilson.

Kara Swisher 36:10 Yes. Um, but there's a bunch of people running. Uh, you know, there's a bunch of people that-

Scott Galloway 36:14 Well, the guy who will probably win is when Andrew Com- Cuomo-

Kara Swisher 36:16 Cuomo.

Scott Galloway 36:16 ... actually announces that he's-

Kara Swisher 36:18 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 36:18 ... he's in the race.

Kara Swisher 36:19 There's a bunch of very good candidates who are not-

Scott Galloway 36:22 It's a bunch of-

Kara Swisher 36:22 ... going to be criminals.

Scott Galloway 36:22 ... out-of-control progressives.

Kara Swisher 36:24 No.

Scott Galloway 36:24 One pragmatist named Whit- Whitney Tilson, who is a pragmatist, would be a great mayor, but probably doesn't have the name recognition. Governor Cuomo is gonna come in and probably just lock it, but-... but Kathy Hochul has, I believe, the power to removes... remove Mayor Adams, and she should.

Kara Swisher 36:41 She should.

Scott Galloway 36:41 This is really... This is, this is, this is corruption at the highest level.

Kara Swisher 36:45 Yeah, she should make an example of him.

Scott Galloway 36:47 Um, just because... Hu- hundred... This is really... And by the way, I was a supporter of Mayor Adams. I thought-

Kara Swisher 36:52 I was not.

Scott Galloway 36:52 ... the case... I thought the case against him was quite frankly overdone. Uh, I, I, you know, I don't... I, I did not think what he did w- rose to the level of, um... I don't know how the media was portraying it, but this is, this is, this is just plain-

Kara Swisher 37:10 I know. I think he's Grifty McGrift from the sta- from the go. He wasn't living there. Everything that came out of his mouth was a lie, this guy. It's just... Uh, and he's such a ridiculous peacock and surrounded himself with such gr-... I, I get New York Mayor has to be, like, a little bit grifty, but-

Scott Galloway 37:25 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 37:25 ... this guy was like-

Scott Galloway 37:26 Grifty-ish.

Kara Swisher 37:26 Grifty-ish. You know, they all are. I mean, (laughs) come on. I mean, but, uh, you know, like, he's just... He's an embarrassment for a great city. You want a little greatness out of a mayor of, of, of... You know, even back in the day, Rudy was the... Uh, no, actually-

Scott Galloway 37:39 Oh.

Kara Swisher 37:39 You know what? I didn't support Rudy. He was the thug to a lot of people.

Scott Galloway 37:42 Th- this is... But this is... It's so damaging to the Democratic brand because the Democratic brand, unfortunately, has been tarred with a broad but fairly fair brush of every Democratically-run city on the West Coast is a fucking shit show. They ignored drugs. They ignored crime. And they're... Just the quality of life is awful. I said two years ago at Fox, if I were Fox, I would (claps hands) just broadcast live from Downtown San Francisco every day. And so th- the center of Democratic branding for politics moved to New York, which is actually performing quite well and still offers... Is still the best place in the world to go in terms of a crush of opportunity, culture, nightlife. New York really still is the best city in the world and represents the best of America and thereby the best of the Democratic Party. And now we have this bullshit?

Kara Swisher 38:29 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 38:29 So it's really damaging on a lot of levels. Ka-

Kara Swisher 38:32 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 38:32 I think Governor Hochul should move in and say... Do a press release and say, "I'm removing him as mayor."

Kara Swisher 38:36 You know who they should make? You know who they should do it? Hillary Clinton. Just make Hillary Clinton give in. (laughs) She's just too stupid.

Scott Galloway 38:41 No, you know who I would ask?

Kara Swisher 38:43 Who? Who?

Scott Galloway 38:43 Uh, that's a good question. I just thought of it. I would ask Mayor Bloomberg to step back in as the interim mayor.

Kara Swisher 38:46 Oh, good idea. I love it.

Scott Galloway 38:48 Just for-

Kara Swisher 38:48 I love it.

Scott Galloway 38:48 ... six to 18 months until there's a special election.

Kara Swisher 38:51 Great idea. Love it. All right. Kathy, get on it. All right. Last thing. The

Kara Swisher 38:55 Gulf of Mexico is now the Gulf of America, at least on Google and Apple Maps in the US. Apparently there are consequences for not using the new name. Associated Press reporters have now been barred from multiple White House events after AP continues to use Gulf of Mexico in its reporting. Um, uh, the AP is calling this a violation of the First Amendment, but Press Secretary Carolyn Le- uh, Levitt, also known as Tracy Flick, says, "We reserve the right to decide who gets into the Oval, go, gets to go into the Oval Office." Oh my God. It's so stupid. Distraction, distraction, distraction. I'm gonna call it the Gulf of Scott. I don't give a fuck-

Scott Galloway 39:26 Uh, my, th-

Kara Swisher 39:26 ... what people do to me. I don't give a fuck.

Scott Galloway 39:27 You saw, you saw my thread or whatever it is. I can't keep track. I just put out Gulf of Distraction. That's all this is. I don't... You know, what, what... Uh, who cares? I don't, I don't... F- fine. Call it that. I, I just don't...

Kara Swisher 39:40 It's so stupid. It's so stupid. It's so manifestly stupid. And I'm sure... I don't even think, like, "Oh, yay, we're calling it the Gulf of America." Whatever. Whatever.

Scott Galloway 39:49 Yeah. We'll show them.

Kara Swisher 39:50 We'll show them. Eh. I, I gotta tell you. I s- I'm loving the, the, the new president of Mexico so much. She's such a badass. I'm gonna try to interview her. Sheinbaum. She's like, "Uh, fuck you." Sh- you know, but at the same time she deals. She's a dealer too. Anyway, uh, it's a distraction. Google, you look like wimps, but whatever. You all... Nobody looks good. I'm gonna call it the Gulf of Scott. That's the end of it. All right, everybody?

Scott Galloway 40:12 I like it. I appreciate that. Gulf of Dog.

Kara Swisher 40:14 Gulf of Dog.

Scott Galloway 40:14 Dog Gulf.

Kara Swisher 40:15 Do- Dogi. No. Dog. Gulf of Dog? No, I like Gulf of Scott. No, Gulf of Galloway sounds good.

Scott Galloway 40:21 Right. Make-

Kara Swisher 40:21 Gulf of Galloway. It feels, like, real.

Scott Galloway 40:23 Make America Scottish again. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 40:24 It feels like Ponce de Leon would have named it that, Gulf of Galloway. Anyway. All right. It's time for this week's Threads poll. This one's open-ended. What do you wish Democrats would do in response for... to the Trump administration's actions? What do you wish? We've had our opinions on that, something besides standing in front of a building and yelling. That's for sure. Visit us on Threads at pivotpodcastofficial to answer. By the way, have you noticed AOC is not outside of the buildings? She's not. Have you noticed that?

Scott Galloway 40:53 She's very calculating. She doesn't-

Kara Swisher 40:54 She's very calcul-... She does great online stuff. I'll tell you that. Sh-... Her and Pete are killing them, killing it.

Scott Galloway 40:59 She's just... She's not gonna be on the... go to the alumni cheerleading day where they have all these very cute 95-year-olds dressed up in pompoms. She's an actual cheerleader. She's a gangster.

Kara Swisher 41:09 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 41:09 She's... And her-

Kara Swisher 41:10 She and Pete Buttigieg, I have to say, are very appealing. Uh, uh, it's two different people.

Scott Galloway 41:14 Mm-hmm. They're, they're in the background managing their brand really strongly with an eye on 28. And they're not gonna, like, go down in some sort of, like, angry z- near zombie apocalypse movie. Um, yeah. They're, they're, they're too smart. They're-

Kara Swisher 41:31 Yeah. Well, we'll-

Scott Galloway 41:32 Anyway.

Kara Swisher 41:32 We would love our listeners to write in what do you think they should do. And y- no violence please, if you don't mind. All right, Scott. One more quick break. We'll be back

Kara Swisher 41:40 for predictions. Okay, Scott. Let's hear a prediction.

Scott Galloway 41:44 Uh, so, you know, a broken clock can be right. I had... I, I was a prediction machine last night, and I wrote a bunch down.

Kara Swisher 41:51 You did? What, what happened?

Scott Galloway 41:52 Um...

Kara Swisher 41:52 What were you taking?

Scott Galloway 41:54 No. I was actually... I was actually sober, which was kind of frightening.

Kara Swisher 41:57 Oh. Mm-hmm. Interesting.

Scott Galloway 41:57 Um, even when I was... When I was ta-... When I was talking about... When you said that, that fuck, marry, kill thing, and I was talking-

Kara Swisher 42:04 (laughs) People love that.

Scott Galloway 42:04 ... about making sweet, sweet love to Mark Zuckerberg, and I thought I'd grab-

Kara Swisher 42:07 You're still thinking about it, aren't you?

Scott Galloway 42:08 Oh my God. I can't get off it. Grabbing that chain, riding him like a dog, and singing, "Who's self-harming now, you wonton bitch?"

Kara Swisher 42:16 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 42:16 Oh my God. My nipples are getting hard.

Kara Swisher 42:18 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 42:18 And at that moment, at that moment, I thought, "Maybe I don't need drugs. Maybe I don't need drugs." (laughs)

Kara Swisher 42:25 No. No.

Scott Galloway 42:25 Anyways. Argh. This is all gonna come crashing down, Kara. Anyways, uh, last night, I had-

Kara Swisher 42:30 I'm getting notes from Lara saying, "No, no, no." But I say, "Yes, yes, yes," and therefore...

Scott Galloway 42:34 Oh. If that's wrong, we don't want to be right.

Kara Swisher 42:36 No, you don't. All right. Go ahead. Prediction.

Scott Galloway 42:38 Uh, anyways, I do think-

Kara Swisher 42:39 Besides you and Mark, uh...

Scott Galloway 42:41 I think Tesla is about to experience its real first major existential crisis.

Kara Swisher 42:45 What?

Scott Galloway 42:45 Sales off.Oh, gosh. They're off-

Kara Swisher 42:47 Here you go again.

Scott Galloway 42:49 They're off it.

Kara Swisher 42:49 Here you go again.

Scott Galloway 42:49 Here I go again, I can't help it.

Kara Swisher 42:51 Here you go again.

Scott Galloway 42:51 I can't... I'm an addict.

Kara Swisher 42:52 I know. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 42:52 Uh, they're off 20% to 60% across European countries. They're off 15% in China. Um, EV demand has, appears to be, uh, plateauing. They are getting the shit kicked out of them by, uh, BYD. They haven't really released a new mass adoption product in about seven years.

Kara Swisher 43:13 Have I been saying that? I have been saying that.

Scott Galloway 43:16 (laughs) And they have the, what is right now, the worst brand ambassador, um, uh, in the world. And then my more-

Kara Swisher 43:23 For the people that want to buy those cars. For the very-

Scott Galloway 43:27 And then my... Yeah.

Kara Swisher 43:27 ... people who want to buy those cars.

Scott Galloway 43:29 A- a- and then my more boring one is, I really think Google is gonna... You're about to hear a lot of, uh, stories about Google Search share falling below 90% at the hands of Perplexity, ChatGPT, and also, uh, Reddit. And I was even thinking, just as YouTube has become the ultimate distribution platform in 2025, I think in '26 it's going to be Reddit. Uh, there's just a bunch of... Like, there's so many moons lining up right now. I- I'm really, um... Anyways, I think that Tesla is about to have, uh... And I can't help it. I'm just gonna say it now. Tesla stock is gonna below, be below 200 in the next six months.

Kara Swisher 44:09 Go in there. You're fi-... You're going there again.

Scott Galloway 44:11 I just... At some point, I'll be right.

Kara Swisher 44:12 I love you. Once more into the breach, Scott Galloway.

Scott Galloway 44:14 At some point, I'll be... At some point, I'll be right.

Kara Swisher 44:17 Well, the numbers are the nu- The math is math, right? Look, they're do- They're... Before they were on the upswing in terms of, like, the quality of cars, what they were releasing. Instead, they're, they're forced to sell things to Marco Rubio who has to do whatever everybody says because he's such a, such a beta. Um, just so you know, on that thing about, um, search, uh, Atlantic, Politico, Vox. Jim Bankoff sent me this, "And other major publishers are suing AI startup Cohere for copyright and trademark infringement, escalating the news battle's legal, uh, battle over the technology." That's from The Wall Street Journal. This is a Canadian company that's valued at five billion dollars, and they're using thousands of copyrighted works to train its large language model. Mm. I don't know. Anyway, they're suing. Jim Bankoff on the attack. Atlantic, Politico, they must have coordinated it all together. Um, uh, all right. So you, you... Those are your two that, that Search is... Those are good. Those are big ones. Those are big ideas.

Scott Galloway 45:08 We'll see, right?

Kara Swisher 45:09 Yeah, yeah. We'll see.

Scott Galloway 45:10 We'll see.

Kara Swisher 45:10 Someday you're gonna be right. Anyway, you are right. You were right before, on terms of the numbers, it just didn't matter. In this case, we'll see. We'll see what happens, but I-

Scott Galloway 45:18 Do you have any thoughts? Any predictions?

Kara Swisher 45:20 Um, I, I... Predictions? Um, no I don't. I, uh, uh, I, I predict I will buy yet another EV this year. I will. The Kia is getting a little long in the tooth. Um, and I, I'm trying to debate whether to get the hybrid, which I think is really... Hybrids are growing like crazy. Um, but-

Scott Galloway 45:37 Oh, you know what we should do?

Kara Swisher 45:37 What? What?

Scott Galloway 45:38 And I'm serious about this.

Kara Swisher 45:40 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 45:40 Alice, who I really respect, I would even call her a friend-

Kara Swisher 45:43 Alice Han.

Scott Galloway 45:43 ... in China. Alice, Alice Han. She said, "Scott, you should really..." I haven't been to China since 2019 and I was saying I was so excited about China and I went there probably two or three times a year and I haven't been back since 2019. And she said, "I'll take you. It'll be a ton of fun and you'll meet with some interesting people." You and I should go to China and you should pick up your BYD and see if you can get it back-

Kara Swisher 46:01 Oh. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 46:02 ... to the US.

Kara Swisher 46:02 Oh, interesting.

Scott Galloway 46:03 And pay the import. Pay the tariff and bring it back.

Kara Swisher 46:04 You and I in China. Let's go to China. I bet we're popular in Hong Kong. I bet we're popular there. You know, we did, we did my, one of my conferences... We went. I had a stroke there, as you know.

Scott Galloway 46:13 I remember.

Kara Swisher 46:13 Last time I was there I had a stroke.

Scott Galloway 46:15 Yeah, the International Tourism Board is not (laughs) ... That's not gonna be on any billboards.

Kara Swisher 46:18 No, I, I have... We should go to China. We should... All right, let's do it. Let's do Pivot in China.

Scott Galloway 46:21 Want a stroke? Come to Shenzhen.

Kara Swisher 46:23 (laughs) No. Let's go to China. Let's do it.

Scott Galloway 46:25 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 46:25 That would be really interesting.

Scott Galloway 46:26 We should do an event in China.

Kara Swisher 46:27 China, we want to come visit you. And we're gonna bring... But we're gonna drive a BYD.

Scott Galloway 46:30 Reach out to us.

Kara Swisher 46:31 We're gonna drive it across the ocean. Uh-

Scott Galloway 46:33 Reach out to us.

Kara Swisher 46:34 Reach out to us. We're coming to China. We'll do an event. Whatever you want.

Scott Galloway 46:36 Yeah, and, and I've heard that the CCP is actually a good organization because I can't find anyone who would say anything else. Bring us to China-

Kara Swisher 46:43 Let's do it in 2025.

Scott Galloway 46:43 ... after we see Wicked.

Kara Swisher 46:45 After we see... We're going to see Wicked, my friend.

Scott Galloway 46:47 We could see We- we could see Wicked in Beijing. That would be interesting.

Kara Swisher 46:50 Oh, are they gonna let-

Scott Galloway 46:51 Um...

Kara Swisher 46:51 ... people? It's all about a surveillance economy. I wonder how big it is.

Scott Galloway 46:54 Is it?

Kara Swisher 46:54 Interesting.

Scott Galloway 46:55 I have no idea.

Kara Swisher 46:55 Do you know what... What are you doing this weekend? Anything interesting?

Scott Galloway 46:58 What am I... Oh, yeah, I'm going to, uh, um... It's funny. I pause there because I feel like I rub my wealth in people's face.

Kara Swisher 47:04 Mm, you do.

Scott Galloway 47:04 I'm going to Vermont.

Kara Swisher 47:05 Oh.

Scott Galloway 47:05 I'm going to Vermont on Saturday.

Kara Swisher 47:07 Oh, all right. That's not very far from where you are.

Scott Galloway 47:08 I'm really excited. Supposedly, we have this ridiculously hot ski instructor, so...

Kara Swisher 47:12 Yeah, okay. You know where I'm going?

Scott Galloway 47:13 Um...

Kara Swisher 47:13 I'm going to SNL's, uh, 50th concert.

Scott Galloway 47:17 Really?

Kara Swisher 47:17 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 47:18 Is it a concert or a showing?

Kara Swisher 47:19 The... There's a sh- no, there's gonna be a show on Saturday. I'm just going to the concert the night before. It's at Radio City Music Hall.

Scott Galloway 47:24 What do they do at a... So what is that-

Kara Swisher 47:25 Like Miley Cyrus plays-

Scott Galloway 47:27 Do they do skits?

Kara Swisher 47:27 ... and all... Everyone who's... Bad Bunny, I think, is there. There's, like, everyone on... It's a crazy, crazy, crazy thing, so I'm gonna go see it.

Scott Galloway 47:33 Where is that? That sounds really cool.

Kara Swisher 47:34 In Radio City Music Hall. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Okay, Scott, that's the show. Thanks for watching Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our channel on the Tube. We'll be back next week.