PivotElon Musk's Daughter Calls Him 'Cringe' in New Interview | Pivot
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
135 min read · 27,399 words- 0:00 – 8:12
Intro
- SGScott Galloway
If you wanna talk about electoral- e-e-electoral injustice, come over and we'll smoke cigarettes and have ice- ice cream and talk about all our bad boyfriends. (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
(instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and I'm in Puerto Rico.
- SGScott Galloway
So Kara, um, one night, I took home some girl who turned out to be a lady boy, which I-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, no.
- SGScott Galloway
... which I'd done before.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
But this time, Kara, instead of-
- KSKara Swisher
No. No.
- SGScott Galloway
... fucking the lady boy-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... the lady boy fucked me. And it was kinda magical, and, and-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... I got in my head what I really wanted was to be one of these Asian girls getting fucked by me-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, no. No, no. (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... and to feel that.
- KSKara Swisher
No. No.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, that's my dramatic reading of The White Lotus.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, did you see that scene?
- KSKara Swisher
I didn't. I- I've heard of it though. I've read of it, but-
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, my God, that guy is good.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Wow.
- SGScott Galloway
Sam Rockwell.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Okay, I was a little worried there, but I'm allow-
- SGScott Galloway
He was-
- KSKara Swisher
... I'm allowing it. I'm allowing it.
- SGScott Galloway
He was, he was the deputy in Three Billboards and something.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
He's a very good actor.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah.
- 8:12 – 14:24
Bipartisan Push to End Section 230
- KSKara Swisher
bipartisan senators Lindsey Graham and Dick Durbin plan to reintroduce a bill to sunset Section 230, I guess. Okay. The bill would give Section 230 an expiration date of January 1st, 2027, with the goal of pressuring big tech to engage in negotiations for new regulations. President Trump has long been an advocate for repealing Section 230, although he hadn't been before. He's changed like a lot of these politicians. He's not alone in that. Uh, Graham has introduced repeal bills multiple times. This one, you know, we'll see if it happens. Um, it's, it's, it's really a way to... Ugh, it's just not the way to go here, but there, there seem to be no other ways to go. We'll see if there will be new regulation. There's also a danger the Trump administration takes control over online speech. T- dirt take, which I think is the smartest, Democratic senators team up with MAGA to hand Trump a censorship machine. Um, it's really a problematic... It's, it's like taking out your liver, I guess, or whatever you need. What, what organ would you need? Your heart, um, to fix a real problem, um, of, of not, of these comp- these not being, uh, subject to any kind of litigation or, uh, regulation. Uh, so it's a really difficult situation. It would really affect their businesses in ways that are really quite profound. I don't know. What do you... What do you feel? I would read Mike Masnick on the entire thing. That's how I would, I would, uh, recommend.
- SGScott Galloway
I think Senator Graham is a really ineffective senator, in addition to having absolutely no moral compass or the ability for his constituents to discern who-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) Agreed.
- SGScott Galloway
He, he has less consistency or ability to figure out where he is or what he stands for than, um, Secretary Rubio. And this is just, this is just stupid, because the reality is Section 230, if you removed it totally, would gut some of our best companies. These are great companies, all right? I, I don't like them, you have issues with them, but without, without some form of, without some form of protection, uh, around their content, they go out of business the next day. They-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
So, and, and in addition, this isn't serious, because they're saying until January 2027. The- so they're basically thinking this would prod them into negotiations. And what I really don't like about this is that we seem to value and understand the importance, and there is some value to kind of shock and awe and shoving stuff through. So they shock and awe around canceling all USAID. They shock and awe around rounding up innocents and deporting them to these hellscape prisons in El Salvador. But around going after those nice white people and shareholders, let's be thoughtful and measured and give them till January 2027 to deploy their lobbyists and weaponize and buy off government. They gave $62 million in lobbying next year. This... First off, somebody should have done shock and awe. Somebody like, uh, Senator Murphy or Senators Klobuchar should have gotten the support, and they probably could have, because this is a bipartisan issue, and said, "All e- algorithmically elevated content is no longer protected by 230," because that's a decision they make to elevate content.
- KSKara Swisher
Correct.
- SGScott Galloway
And they still would have protection around stuff. They still would have had the whole free speech argument. And the biggest argument here is around, against it, is around, well, it's you should have free speech. Fine. If you want to say mRNA vaccines alter your DNA, fine, but you shouldn't elevate it beyond its organic reach because it enrages people. So when you do that... And also bots don't have, in my opinion, don't have rights to free speech. So they could have come up with a thoughtful bill and gone shock and awe and just passed it. Instead, they come up with something stupid and give a warning, the same warning, the same due process that poor people aren't getting in our nation right now, that poor people abroad are absolutely not getting right now. But they've said, "Okay, let's put out something stupid that will never happen and give them the due process that they're not affording the people who aren't white, who aren't shareholders, who aren't corporations." This is total fucking bullshit and a waste of time and attention.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. I would agree, and again, I would recommend, there is a really good podcast that Mike Masnick has done, he's written a lot about this, um, I- I- years ago when they were doing this before, when they tried to do this again, um, they, uh, I had him on and a bunch of... and Jeff Kossoff and, and, and others who know a lot about it to explain why this is the- the- the- it's like, there's an expression, "Throwing a- a hammer at a piano to make music." Like it just doesn't make any sense.
- SGScott Galloway
I like that.
- KSKara Swisher
Um, and- and he- this is what he writes, "How did the once-obscure internet law become the target of bipartisan crusade? The answer reveals much about our current moral panic over social media and the dangerous appeal of quick-fix solutions, um, that makes them default to fix this. What people don't realize is that Section 230 isn't really the root of their concerns, and removing or even reforming it won't fix the people on the internet; in fact, it will certainly make things worse." Um, so I think it's really important to get yourself educated on this. This is not the solution. It- again, you're right, they could have passed all of the different bills Senator Klobuchar and others had around privacy, around all kinds of things, around some liability, um, that they never- they refused to do. They refused to do decent law and they- they have to use this as a cudgel? Like it's- it's ridiculous. They should be able, if they can be bipartisan, they should be bipartisan enough to pass a series of laws that put- that give these- that- that have teeth in them, that have, against these companies; privacy, algorithm transparency, anti-new- antitrust rules-
- SGScott Galloway
Why not an executive order here?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, come on. Shock and awe- shock and awe across-
- KSKara Swisher
Right, right.
- SGScott Galloway
... rounding up people, shock and awe at cutting off aid for malaria victims, but when it comes to corporations in Silicon Valley-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... we're-
- KSKara Swisher
We're warning you.
- SGScott Galloway
... proposing something stupid-
- KSKara Swisher
We're warning you.
- SGScott Galloway
... that'll take effect in a year- in two years?
- KSKara Swisher
Why not have a regulation on privacy around a bipartisan-
- SGScott Galloway
Right now.
- KSKara Swisher
Right now. They could do it right now.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, and this is what they're going for. This is just, they're so stupid.
- SGScott Galloway
Age gate, executive order.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
No one under the age of 16-
- 14:24 – 24:36
“Careless People”
- KSKara Swisher
Speaking of, uh, someone that Meta has made a bestseller, Sarah Wynne-Williams released Careless People, documenting her six years at the company earlier this month. She was there not- quite a bit ago, I think 2018 is when she left. Meta has recently successfully stopped Wynne-Williams from doing interviews based on a non-disparagement agreement signed at her termination. Wynne-Williams has filed an emergency motion to overturn the ruling, citing lack of proper notice and whistleblower protections. She apparently wasn't present at the- when they made the ruling. At the time of the taping, the book, uh, is number three on Amazon's Best Seller. I think it was, this was the strategy of this publisher, um, they didn't inform the company before. There was very, uh, there was a lot of, uh, of quietness around the, uh, release. They didn't seem to fact check. The ones I checked, they did not- the ones I- people I checked with, they did not call. Um, and, uh, and they have, um, you know, they- they- the company is very upset about the book and has been trying to stop it, and- and in the process has made it very popular. Um, she did a ser- a bunch of short interviews, there was one or two interviews before, um, but then has not been able to do that. But it hasn't stopped it. I think... I don't know. I- I think it's a- it's a problematic book. I have read it. Um, we can discuss it, Scott, if you want, 'cause you haven't read it, but, um, there's a lot of important stuff in this book, and at the same time, a lot of stuff that is not, would I say fact-checked is what I would say, um, and- and is questionable about her taking credit for certain things. I think some of the stuff, the personal stuff is, uh, should have been fact-checked. Um, there's some stuff about Joel Kaplan, um, about, uh, sexual harassment. There's some stuff about Sheryl Sandberg wanting her to sleep in a bed on a plane, which I think, I'm sorry, I don't believe. I believe it happened, I just don't believe the way Wynne- Williams is telling it. Um, although only people there would know, I guess. Um, and there, I think Facebook is reacting rather emotionally to this because of the personal stuff in it. But the stuff around China is really interesting. Um, it's really interesting that- their preparations to go into China, uh, but then they didn't, and I don't think she was there when they decided not to, so she doesn't know why they didn't, but they didn't do it. Um, but some of the stuff is really interesting, it gives you an insight to this company who are indeed careless people, um, but I'm not so sure this is the best narrator to tell it, although a lot of it is really important, uh, and lots of people I trust have, uh, mixed feelings on this book as I do.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I'll put forward, I haven't read it, I've read a lot about it. I'll put forward a thesis-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... and you validate it-
- KSKara Swisher
Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
... or nullify it.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
Because you're just gonna forget more about this topic-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... than I'm gonna know, and you know these people, I don't.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And that is, this reminded me a little bit of sort of one of the issues or I think dangers of Joe Rogan and RFK Jr. I think my thesis is she's mixing truth with bullshit here, and that is, I- I don't know Sheryl Sandberg. I know a lot about her, just following her career, but her making advances on female employees or Joel Kaplan, who I do not know but I've followed his career close- closely, him engaging in a pattern of sexual harassment. Quite frankly, a lot of this just didn't ring true, and it felt like... Quite frankly, I just read a lot of this. I- I love reading (laughs) about whistleblowers and Meta. Frances Haugen, everything she said just felt true, and she was measured and she was happy to say, "That's not true, that's hyperbole," whatever. This, quite frankly-... your bullshit sensors just go on high alert when you read about this stuff. It just, for me, didn't ring true.
- KSKara Swisher
Some of it.
- SGScott Galloway
What are your thoughts?
- KSKara Swisher
Some of it. Some of the memos she has are really important to read. Like, the- these are actual memos and things like that that, of how they did things. I just think it's her take on the s- she's always the hero in the story, and I, I, I know a lot of people who worked there who tried really hard to do the right thing, and I think in some places where they had successes, she takes a lot of the credit, and I think that's one of the things. Certain people like Katie Harbath, who I, who I like very much, um, who've been big Facebook critics, um, find issues with this, like the, in the telling of the stories. Now, it's a memoir, so this is her telling of the story, and I just wrote my own memoir, so I understand how people might not agree with my take on situations either. Uh, but, uh, but this, this has been met by a lot of people whom I trust, saying, "This is not the way it happened." Uh, that said, I think her vibe is absolutely correct. The sort of carelessness, I think, is absolutely true. I think, uh, you know, how they go about doing things is true. Uh, the China stuff is really interesting to understand. It, it's, it gives you great insight into the company, and that stuff is, I think, very much. The vibe is correct. The, it's sort of like... I, I don't, I also don't know why she waited so long if this was so critical. That's, of course, she's gonna ... th- that's, that's a Facebook argument, and I don't think it's a wrong one. Um, but I do think Facebook has reacted emotionally on, on this stuff and has made it into a bestseller, so more people are reading it because of the... 'Cause, 'cause one of the things, and I told this to, uh, someone from Meta, I'm like, they're like, "It's not trustworthy." I said, "Neither are you." So it's not, like, it's not like we trust Meta when they're actually-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... telling the truth.
- SGScott Galloway
Good point.
- KSKara Swisher
And that's the problem, is that they, nobody has any trust for this company, and so you assume the worst of them. And in my case, I, I, I do think it does hurt for people who are critics of them when things aren't buttoned up, unfortunately.
- SGScott Galloway
That's right.
- KSKara Swisher
You have to be super buttoned up with these people.
- SGScott Galloway
100%.
- KSKara Swisher
And one of the, uh, uh, I was supposed to interview her, but there was way, way too many holes. I didn't feel like slagging her, and I didn't feel like defending Facebook. And, um, I, I just think she's got the vibe right. She's got the vibe right, that's for sure. Uh, I do, I-
- SGScott Galloway
But didn't it feel very, didn't it feel very sensationalist to you?
- KSKara Swisher
It did, it did. I, I, I, I hate to say that, but I really did. And the Sh- the Sandberg stuff is, you know, I'm a little kinder to her than you are. Um, but I can see how that happened, and the way she told it isn't correct. I can see, Sheryl's very, I would say sisterly or motherly with her employees, and all tech companies, and Facebook in- included, are far too familial with their employees. And especially in the early days, it was like a frat sometimes. Sometimes it was like a family, a dysfunctional family for sure. Not, not, Facebook wasn't as much of a frat as say Google was in many ways. Um, and I think there was a familiarity in those companies that has long gone now, but initially was, was present. And I think all these companies were sort of behaved in ways that HR would just blush at. And at one point, um, I, uh, there was a, uh, Meta, uh, it was Facebook at the time, person in HR, and they, they had just gotten there, and I said, "What, what's your job?" And she said, "I'm, I'm the vice president of keeping people from fucking each other." Like, and it was like, I laughed out loud, but it was, it's not, it was a very, um... And Facebook wasn't the worst of them, which is interesting as I recall. But, um, there was just a familiarity. So I could see her saying, "Oh, sleep in the bed, you're pregnant. Sleep in the bed. No, do it." Like, I can see her doing that in a very sisterly and motherly way. I can't see her, it, it, she-
- SGScott Galloway
She, she depicts-
- KSKara Swisher
She left it open.
- SGScott Galloway
... it as a sexual-
- KSKara Swisher
I, but I don't think she's-
- SGScott Galloway
She depicts it as a sexual overture.
- 24:36 – 28:24
RFK Jr. on Cellphones
- KSKara Swisher
Um-
- SGScott Galloway
Yep.
- KSKara Swisher
... uh, speaking of which, another person, another piece of shit, uh, uh, in this case, um, not Facebook, uh, but RFK Jr.'s, uh, latest target is surprisingly one we can almost agree on, cellphones in schools, sort of. Talking about the risks of cellphone use for kids on Fox & Friends, Kennedy did mention depression and poor performance, but then what did he do? Let's listen.
- RJRFK Jr.
Cellphones also produce electric, uh, magnetic radiation-
- NANarrator
Yeah.
- RJRFK Jr.
... which has been shown to damage, to, to do neurological damage to kids when it's around them all day, a- and to, uh, and to cause, cause cellular damage and even cancer. So-
- KSKara Swisher
And there he goes, down the highway. Research so far has not found an association between cellphone use and cancer nor DNA damage. Last year, the surgeon general, Vivek, uh, Murthy, called on schools to ban phones in classrooms for the good reasons which are depression and poor performance. Uh, that he had to do this, uh, oh, God, I wanna just s- I, I can't slap someone, I mean, uh, uh, I would like to virtually slap him for doing this, because it's an important issue, and as usual, he enters all kinds of conspiracy theories into it without, uh, you know, I, I, I don't know what to say. Just once again, this is the exact same thing, it's like he's making a good point and then down he goes, down conspiracy highway with his nonsensical bullshit. Your thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, when I was in junior high school, I saw my first R-rated movie. Me and my best friend, Adam Markman, we would get bored after school and we would go into Westwood where they had all these amazing movie theaters, and still do, and we'd sneak into a movie theater.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
We'd find a way. We'd try and sneak into the back door-
- KSKara Swisher
I've done that.
- SGScott Galloway
... or the front door.
- KSKara Swisher
Side door.
- SGScott Galloway
And we'd get kicked out. Yeah, side door, whatever it was, wait till the movie was letting out, the back door into the alley, sneak in-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Go to the bathroom.
- SGScott Galloway
... and we snuck in, we snuck in accidentally into The Exorcist.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh.
- SGScott Galloway
And for about the next six years, I had to, like, sit in a corner to put my socks on.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, I was so fucking freaked out.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
That movie traumatized me for years.
- KSKara Swisher
That's a, that's a traumatizing... Mine was Halloween.
- SGScott Galloway
I remember-
- KSKara Swisher
Halloween was mine.
- SGScott Galloway
I was, I was 14, and for about two weeks-
- KSKara Swisher
Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
... my mom would wake up in the middle of the night and look over and I'd be sleeping next to her bed. I just could not sleep alone.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, wow. Funny.
- SGScott Galloway
And there's a, there's a scene in it where the, I think it's the priest, says the devil will mix in truth with lies to really confuse you. And here's a tough part about RFK Jr. is that he, I think he's actually really good on some issues and really articulate. He's very forceful about the industrial food complex and how it's optimized for profits and not for health and it's gone too far, and kids' health. I think he's really, I think he's really good on some issues. And then he goes on to say, as the person who's supposed to be measured in citing research, that this shit causes can- there's no- like you said, there's absolutely no, no evidence of that whatsoever.
- 28:24 – 36:17
Elon’s Pentagon Visit
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, we're back. President Trump is denying a report that Elon Musk was set to be briefed on top secret war plans for China during a visit to the Pentagon last week. According to Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, Elon's visit was just an informal meeting about innovation, efficiencies, and smarter production. Trump was later asked about Elon's possible involvement in Chinese foreign policy during a presser. Let's listen to what he said.
- NANarrator
Uh, we don't wanna have a potential war with China, but I can tell you if we did, we're very well equipped to handle it, but I don't wanna show that to anybody. But certainly you wouldn't show it to a businessman who is helping us so much. He's a great patriot. He's taken, he, he's paying a big price for helping us cut costs and he's doing a great job. He's finding tremendous waste, fraud, and abuse. But I certainly wouldn't want... You know, Elon has businesses in China and he would be susceptible perhaps to that.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, at least Trump's telling the truth there, but I don't think he's telling the truth. Um, I think Elon has enormous access to intel. I think both the New York Times and The Wall Street Journal, I think, reported this. I think it was the New York Times. I c- uh, New York Times, I think broke it. Um, uh, I just think this is exactly what they were gonna do, and then they- and I don't believe Pete Hegseth, I don't believe Donald Trump, I don't believe Elon Musk. And so in this case, I believe the reporters and they probably pulled it back, the, the, the briefing he was gonna get. Uh, I think he's got his fingers in all kinds of stuff that has potential conflicts of interest. I don't even think they're potential. I think everything he's doing right now has massive conflict of interest. Um, s- any thoughts on this one? Because there's also one, of course, uh, SpaceX is positioning itself to get billions of dollars in new federal contracts or other support according to a report, again in The New York Times. NASA, the Pentagon, the FAA, and the Comm- Commerce Department are among the agencies with ongoing and new deals with SpaceX. SpaceX will also get a boost from Trump's new space-based missile defense project called the Golden Dome. Um, this is just, uh, ridiculous. Like, he's just so, he's got so many business interests and so many conflicts, Scott.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I mean, if you think about the very founding of our nation, one of the pillars that our Constitution rests on is that people were trying to escape religious persecution, and they were visionary and said, "All right. We're, we're gonna try and set up a separation between church and state." And that has now been breached, and you could argue that a lot of, like, the political orthodoxy of the right is just white-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... Christian nationalism. It's no longer even conservative ideals of small-
- KSKara Swisher
No.
- SGScott Galloway
... government, strong defense. It's cr- it's white Christian nationalism. So that, that kind of wall has been breached. The other thing that people don't talk about, um, enough is the separation between, uh, business and state, and that is, they create an operating system for competition, for full body contact violence and competition. They don't pick winners and losers such that they reproduce the best companies in the world that are more prosperous and hopefully pay taxes to pay for schools, roads, and, and health benefits for veterans amongst other things. We've now breached that. I mean, that thing has just been overrun and essentially, the White House has decided, okay, the guy who gave us the most money, and probably put me in this chair, we're gonna become the marketing department for Tesla.
- KSKara Swisher
I know.
- SGScott Galloway
We're gonna do a used car lot bad cr- infomercial, late night TV commercial on Tesla. In addition, Musk comes out and says that the FAA is on the brink of near collapse. That causes panic. You don't need to make people who don't like to fly even more nervous claiming that the Verizon system is outdated. Then he has to come back and correct himself and go, "Oh, the current system is not from Verizon, but Verizon was picked to implement the new system." I mean, this is just-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... you're not supposed to have, be the outsourced marketing department. Now, o- o- on a couple other levels here, there's a lot of stuff here, I think Doj's critical mistake, or one of their strategic errors, if they had started instead of with USAID, instead of starting with SNAP or veterans, if they'd started with the Pentagon, I think that actually for them would've been tactically very smart.
- KSKara Swisher
No.
- SGScott Galloway
Because I do think that, I do think there should be tighter integration between kinda that Silicon Valley ethos of innovation and our military industrial complex. I do think that some of the innovators in Silicon Valley, um, and the ability to build better weapons, I, I like that. I think that, I think that's a good idea, and I think if... There's probably a lot of waste you could find. I won't call it fraud, but a lot of waste-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... you could find. There are ships being built that the Navy does not want, but because they bring billions of dollars to certain congressional districts, they refuse to pull the plug. And, you know, it, the, the commanders in the Navy, the admirals are saying, "We can't use these things. They're a liability." So they, they'd started with the Defense Department, it would've been better. And then this, j- just to go tactically again, he's either stupid or using it as a weapon of mass distraction from the fact that we're surrendering to Putin and, and massively running up our deficits, and that is the following: this notion of a golden dome. Okay. And they cite Israel. Israel has the Iron Dome. But just a few facts, the Iron Dome is very expensive and it only covers purposefully and logistically certain key popula- uh, population centers. The Iron Dome doesn't, it can't cover all of Israel. And by the way, Israel is the size of New Jersey.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
They have ground defense systems, missile systems in place. To do that for America-
- KSKara Swisher
It's insane.
- SGScott Galloway
... is feasibly right now impossible.
- KSKara Swisher
What was the Reagan one? What was the Reagan one? He had one.
- SGScott Galloway
The defense shield or the missile or the space shield, whatever it was.
- KSKara Swisher
Something like that, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
But do you remember, they showed, they released a video of an invisible laser taking out a rocket on the launchpad?
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Do you remember this?
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
It showed them disintegrating a rocket on the launchpad. It ended up that that freaked out the Russians and they immediately went to work on this and started investing a ton of money. And a lot of people say that incremental investment in military and defense spending was too much for the Russian economy to-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... to handle and actually led to the fall of the Soviet Union. Re- Reagan not only spent them into oblivion, he, he gave them the perception we were further... It ended up that that video was bullshit. We had nothing of the sort. But it freaked them out and got them (laughs) spending so much money that it supposedly bankrupted them. I, I, I think that's genius. I think that's the kinda shit you want our security apparatus doing.
- 36:17 – 41:03
Elon’s Playbook in Wisconsin Race
- KSKara Swisher
one where he's explicitly trying to, to, to, to advantage himself. Uh, he's taking a page out of his 2024 playbook to influence Wisconsin's state supreme court election. What's he doing in there paying voters? His Super PAC announces offering $100 to re- to registered voters in Wisconsin who sign a petition opposing activist judges and register themselves or identify themselves. Elon-affiliated groups have now spent more than $13 million to get a GOP candidate Brad Schimel elected in the Wisconsin race for a judge's race and the reason is they want to just flip it from liberal to conservative. It's a four-three kinda situation. Um, he's very interested in Wisconsin. Why is that? Why do you think that is? 'Cause he's trying to save abortion, uh, y- uh, I mean, anti- he's trying to help anti-abortion forces? No. He's interested because Tesla's involved in a lawsuit which will go to the Supreme Court challenging a state law that prohibits car manufacturers from owning dealerships. He has a beef with Wisconsin around his own personal businesses and he's put enormous amount of money to get this one guy who is a Tr- a Trump acolyte into power. And that is that. That is what's happening there. And so he's gonna go around the country and do this, not just a- abroad, not just in China, not just everywhere else, where his, uh, self- interests take effect, he's going to, uh...... pump money into these things like these judgeships and these smaller things that will get him enormous payback. And it's just, it cannot be allowed to go on. It ca- it absolutely cannot. And, and I think the Democrats are fighting. There's enormous amounts of money going into this. I think $56 bil- million, it's a crazy amount of money, um, for a judgeship. Uh, it's just, uh, this guy has got his fingers in every pie, and it always goes right back to his self-interest, as far as I'm concerned.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, he's allowed to do it, and there's a lot of pharmaceutical-
- KSKara Swisher
Truce.
- SGScott Galloway
... companies and, uh, you know, big tax spend, $60 or $70 million in lobbying.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
It all reverses back to the same place. One, in terms of $13 million, Democrats should be able to match that, even though-
- KSKara Swisher
They are.
- SGScott Galloway
... they're not the wealthiest people in the world, and they are. Uh, this all goes back to Citizens United. Unless we get money out of politics, like the majority of democratic nations do, and say, "All right," they, they, they ring fence the time of the election, the amount of political spending. Uh, you know, we're just not going... He, he's allowed to do this.
- KSKara Swisher
I know it.
- SGScott Galloway
And, and we position him as sinister. And the shock and awe of a third of a billion dollars and weaponizing his communication platform really quickly, quite frankly, was brilliant, it was strategic. And he got to put, because our electoral system is all fucked up, per your previous comments, and because money can run unfettered, he was able to probably decide who was president.
- KSKara Swisher
He did.
- SGScott Galloway
But he gets to do that just the way a couple of our very wealthy elected, uh, uh, v- very wealthy donors could probably do the same. The, what we're upset about is they're better at it right now. And until we reverse engineer to, uh... Unless you get, unless you do something to modify or overturn Citizens United, this is only gonna get worse.
- KSKara Swisher
It is. You're absolutely right.
- SGScott Galloway
And both sides will complain about it, but the reality is he's allowed to do this. We're allowed to do it back. We're upset. Quite frankly, they're just more brazen about it. But-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, I think the second step is, "And now I want all the contracts." And I get that some donors get contracts after they give giving, but not in the... This is, like, an unprecedented level of-
- SGScott Galloway
Well, he shouldn't be able to-
- KSKara Swisher
... that.
- SGScott Galloway
... use user con- congressional... I would've thought the Republicans had more self-esteem-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... than to just let this guy kind of roll in and start making decisions on their behalf.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. I believe so.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, uh, that- that's a different level.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
But the idea that he can win contracts by giving money to certain people? You know, welcome to America.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. I agree.
- SGScott Galloway
That's how American politics work.
- KSKara Swisher
But it's everywhere. And I think at some point-
- SGScott Galloway
Agreed.
- KSKara Swisher
... this may, this may spur a lot of reform, which will be interesting, 'cause someone just went a little too far, I think, on these kind of things. Anyway, uh-
- SGScott Galloway
Hope so.
- 41:03 – 42:10
Cybertruck Recall
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, we're back with more Tesla turmoil. Tesla's recalling 46,000 Cybertrucks. They really haven't sold that many. They were supposed to sell 250,000. That was an interesting number. Basically all of them because of an exterior panel that could fall off while driving. Meanwhile, Tesla owners are trading their cars at record levels amid Elon backlash, according to data from car shopping site Edmunds. Trump is also now threatening to send people convicted of vandalizing Teslas to prisons in El Salvador, which is bullshit, but whatever. It's really obnoxious that he did so. Uh, can... This is really interesting. Te- Elon addressed Tesla employees at an all-hands meeting last week saying they were in, still in good hands, and, "Hang on to your stock, even though the board is selling its stock." So, maybe not hang on to your stock, Tesla employees. Um, th- you know, there's videos all over the internet. My sons, m- n- cited them, uh, they're all watching them of Teslas fucking up and people pulling off things 'cause of the glue on the front panel or something, and the stuff like that. Um, it's getting all over the place. Um, meanwhile, um, well, let's talk about that. How do you look about this? 'Cause now the videos are going crazy. I mean, my, again, my sons just said, "Oh, have you seen these?" And they have c- seen all of them, which is really interesting.
- 42:10 – 46:08
Tesla Stock Sale
- KSKara Swisher
- SGScott Galloway
Well, again, as a, as a general rule-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... uh, just in terms of corporate governance-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... when boards address employees, including the CEO-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... you're not supposed to make stock recommendations.
- KSKara Swisher
No, you're not.
- SGScott Galloway
You're- you're just not... I mean, in the '90s, uh, uh, and this is one of... I've been wealthy three times, which means I lost it all twice. And one of the reasons I lost it all and ended up being worth -$2 million, uh, at a stage in my life where, you know, I was just starting to have kids, was when I was on the board of Red Envelope, and I had a bunch of stock. The gestalt and the pressure from your investors was, "Oh, you don't get to sell stock." I mean, when they sell stock, it's for diversification and business reasons. But as the founder or the chairman or the CEO, you s- you're sending the wrong signal. I thought you were in this to win it. That was... It, it's changed a lot now. Now entrepreneurs are allowed to do secondaries and get liquidity, and VCs will let you do that, because there's more competition, there's more capital than there are entrepreneurs. Back then, whether it was Sequoia or, uh, the, the people backing my companies, you were not supposed to sell s- They got to sell stock, but not you. And just in general, we also, when you're on public boards, um... You know, I remember when the New York Times went to three bucks a share, saying on the board there, you know, maybe we should, as a board, start to buy some shares. And Bob Denham, who was I think the lawyer for Warren Buffett, said, "We shouldn't pressure anyone, including each other, to buy stock." And you know what? I was wrong, he was right. This is people's personal...... the, the, the, you know, when the world's wealthiest man is telling you what to do with your own financial security-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... it's really none of your fucking business, boss.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
If, if they have shares that they've vested because they've worked there, y- y- I mean, Elon Musk does not care about you. And if you, you, you know, he, that's not appropriate for a board member, to be telling employees to hold onto stock or buy stock for their own benefit. That's for his own benefit. He wants his wealth to go back up. And also, just on a, just on a, a valuation basis, this company, even with its drawdown, it's still trading at, I think, at 120 or 130 times earnings. And its, its revenues... Tesla is about to be the auto company that is declining faster than any automobile company in the world, in terms of sales, and yet most of these companies trade at five to 20 times earnings, and it's j- it still trades at 130. So, uh, I mean, I would not get near this stock with a 10-foot pole, much less tell employees, who are probably have a net worth of maybe $400,000, maybe including their house, when you're worth $400 billion, or $300 now, you should not be telling them to hold on or buy stock. That's totally inappropriate.
- KSKara Swisher
A- agreed. And I think, you know, those shares, we'll see where these shares go. They have stuck in the $240s, sort of, pretty much. Um-
- SGScott Galloway
They've gone up, actually, in the last week.
- KSKara Swisher
They have.
- SGScott Galloway
Their earnings are covered in the last week.
- KSKara Swisher
They're still down 24 or 25% in the last month.
- SGScott Galloway
Still up for the year, though.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Still up 12 months.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, still up year to date, yeah, but-
- SGScott Galloway
But that's my point-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, no-
- SGScott Galloway
... it's wildly overvalued. (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
Year to date, they're down 34%.
- SGScott Galloway
Last 12 months.
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, one year, th- 12, 12 months-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- 46:08 – 52:10
Elon’s Daughter Speaks Out
- KSKara Swisher
there's, there's this interview that, uh, his estranged daughter, Vivian Wilson, uh, did for Teen Vogue, on the, and had a, was on the cover. Uh, Wilson... I love Teen Vogue, by the way, I think it's a really great publication. Wilson, uh, who is a trans woman, called her father "cringe" and "a pathetic man-child." She said she had not had a relationship with him since 2020. This apparently... And not a very good one before that. This apparently did not sit well with Elon, who deadnamed his daughter on X again, calling out the "woke mind virus" yet again, saying he was gonna kill it once again. He's also been amplifying a conspiracy theory about trans people vandalizing Teslas. Like, he went on a rampage. Um, I thought this interview was fantastic, it was very funny, it was, it was a gr- It was, like, a 20-year-old, um, uh, young person, just pretty cool, a pretty cool young person who also had a lot of wisdom, at the same time, really did understand herself in terms of not knowing everything. It was very self-aware in a really, I thought, a very smart way. It rem- It reminded me a lot of my own, uh, two older kids, just they're, they know what they don't know, but they also love to brag a little bit. And I thought it was a wonderful i- interview, and I thought the pictures were wonderful. And, um, and that she gets under his skin so much is really quite, uh, like, delightful on so many l- levels. And it's a, it's a big risk for someone like this. Uh, she lives in Japan, but, uh, she doesn't have financial links with him, but he's still a very powerful person. And obviously, it set him off quite a bit, uh, especially 'cause sh- she is everything... She is a delight online, and he is not. She is funny online, he is not. And so she's everything, she's everything he's wanted to be online, which is cool, I guess. Um, your thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
Look, I generally think you cut a pretty wide berth into people's kids, and their relationship with their kids is sort of off limits.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, but when you deadname your kid on a podcast and say that, that she is dead to you, um, you're opening yourself up for scrutiny. And in my view, you know, (laughs) when you talk about masculinity, when you talk about what it is to be a man, it can distill down to three basic points: you're a protector, you're a provider, and you're a procreator. Okay. Ground zero for being a provider as a man is you stand by your kids, full stop.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Y- I mean, you see all these parents in the courtroom when their kids have done horrible things-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Same.
- SGScott Galloway
... and you understand and empathize that they are going to side with their children, they're going to protect their children. So I had... When I was at South by Southwest, I had lunch with a friend, and he was talking about how his, um, daughter said that, um, uh, they wanted to now identify as a man. And it was very traumatic for the parents, not because they... You know, they're struggling with, all right, a person should be comfortable in their own skin. They're trying to put aside, they're, they're trying to say, okay, uh, one of the wonderful things about being a human and being in America is having the right to present you as you, you are most comfortable. At the same time, they're also worried that teenagers make bad decisions. And, th- th- you know, you could just understand, they're really, like, worried and upset about it. But the idea that this guy would ever be critical of his kid, th- they were just... He could just tell how much, uh, just how much pain he was feeling, because... Not because he didn't want to have a trans son, but because he wanted his kid to make the right decision and was concerned about his kid. And that's the right... That's what I think it means to be a mother or a father. You default to protection. And this guy does not default to protection. He is making his daughter's life-... harder. And that is exactly what it, that is exactly what it means to not be a man. I mean, this is, this guy is such a terrible role model. He is saying to other men, because of his incredible achievements, they look up to him and they are going to model him, that if your child makes certain decisions you don't agree with, you're going to publicly shame them and make their lives harder? So this is, I mean, this is just so wrong on so many dimensions. And he's just, again, I go back to the same thing, this guy's the worst fucking thing to happen to young men since, since porn, since, since old men deciding to protect their own land decided to send young men off to war. I mean, there are very few worse influences right now on young men-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... than Elon Musk.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Anyways, I'm gonna go-
- KSKara Swisher
I would agree.
- SGScott Galloway
... to my TED Talk.
- KSKara Swisher
I don't think it's working though. I have to tell you, my sons make constant... And they used to really like him, I have to say, they did. But now they're like lo- they'll, they trade back and forth all these videos on Teslas and stuff like that. And they were horrified by his response to the daughter. They thought the daughter was cool. Like, the daughter's fucking cool. Like, she really is. And again, what I really liked about it is she understood what she didn't know and she says like, "Maybe that'll change. Maybe I'm wrong." Like, she had more self-awareness at 20 years old i- in a very difficult position than he has had his whole life. So, let's just give kudos to her mom who, uh, who was, who sh- who was quoted in the piece, uh, and I thought was a wonderful piece, uh, essentially calling, uh, her daughter magical. And really won- it was a wonderful quote from the mother and sounds like... And I know Justine a little bit and, uh, is just really terrific and good- thank goodness for that. Um, in any case, um, uh-
- SGScott Galloway
I met her at TED. She seemed lovely.
- KSKara Swisher
She's lovely.
- SGScott Galloway
Smart.
- KSKara Swisher
She's really interesting.
- SGScott Galloway
Smart, friendly.
- KSKara Swisher
Smart and just-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
... well, obviously a great parent here in this situat- this really incredibly difficult situation.
- SGScott Galloway
I met Musk's first wife at TED. I think that's the whitest thing I've ever said.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, it is actually-
- SGScott Galloway
That may be.
- KSKara Swisher
... I have to say. (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
I'm translucent.
- KSKara Swisher
We're gonna move on.
- SGScott Galloway
I've become invisible.
- 52:10 – 1:06:29
Wins and Fails
- KSKara Swisher
Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Would you like me to go first?
- SGScott Galloway
No, you go first, Kara.
- KSKara Swisher
I think you gotta give the w- well, I, I, there's one small win, which is this New York Times piece on Hooters becoming a refuge for young gay men. And it's this wonderful, uh, piece, uh-
- SGScott Galloway
I read it. Mm.
- KSKara Swisher
... where a lot of dads apparently brought gay sons to Hooters trying to get them and the Hooters waitresses thankfully saved these gay people and were like, "Don't worry about it." Like, there was... It's this wonderful thing and it's, it was just... Uh, just go find it, Hooters gay men, and you will... It's a delightful read and thank God. And Hooters is on the precipice of bankruptcy apparently. But thank God for Hooters waitresses is all I have to say in that regard. Um, but I think you have to give it to the Severance, uh, season finale. I watched it here in Puerto Rico on Friday, uh, or Thursday.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, you did? How was it?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Amazing. Um, I'm not gonna give away too much.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I heard it's great.
- KSKara Swisher
But, boy, is Ben Stiller one hell of a director and the writers and-
- SGScott Galloway
Did he direct this one? He hasn't directed all of them. He did?
- KSKara Swisher
He, he did. He did.
- SGScott Galloway
He did?
- KSKara Swisher
I believe he did. Yes. And it was... He directed a lot of them this season, more than he was supposed to, he told me. Um, but, um, he, i- it is just, s- wow, was it a mind fuck in a way that was really good. And it leaves open for a whole new season that is really great. I, I, I... It was not going the way you thought it was gonna go, uh, but it sort of did. So, it had a very satisfying and you didn't feel, uh, at a loss. And at the same time, it, it was a lot about, uh, innies and outties and the relationship you have with yourself. And it was real, the struggles you have with yourself. And it was, uh, there's so much to unpack and Patricia Arquette, every single person in it. Milchick, the guy who plays Milchick, did this incredible, uh, there's a marching band, the, there was a big fire and it just was, the whole thing was, uh, every single... There was, there was a goat lady. There was, there's so much to it. Every single character had their moment, and every single character took advantage of their moment in a really profound and wonderful way. And I couldn't recommend it more. Like, I have... It was really funny too. It was really funny and also heartbreaking and et cetera. Uh, and every character, uh, was wonderful. So, that, I just have to say that was such a win. And Hooters, also Hooters. Um, the fail, I think, I think I'll stick with this RFK-
- SGScott Galloway
Wait, can I comment on your wins?
- KSKara Swisher
Sure, yes. Please, go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
So, I, I'm, uh, you know, I'm an enormous fan of Ben Stiller and he gives-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, we both are.
- SGScott Galloway
... awkward Jewish guys hope-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... that they can marry a hot, interesting woman. I've got to know his wife a little bit. She's very interesting. Also, very good-looking. Not that that's important. Um-
- KSKara Swisher
Okay, she's an actor too, but she's also wonderful, but go ahead. Go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
What, like interesting and hot wasn't enough?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, okay.
- SGScott Galloway
Anyway, so-
- KSKara Swisher
Smart *******. Go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, just on the Hooters story, I read that, I thought it was really sweet. Um, I actually know someone who was a waiter at Hooters and was in a car accident and lost her leg and now she works at IHOP.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs) Come on.
- KSKara Swisher
You just waited for that. You don't wanna talk about profound...
- SGScott Galloway
I couldn't think about anything else-
Episode duration: 1:06:29
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