Elon Musk's Latest Lawsuit: X vs. Advertisers | Pivot

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   So, we're talking about…

   1. NKNoel King0:00

      So, we're talking about one of your favorite people and his latest lawsuit. X filed a federal antitrust lawsuit against the World Federation of Advertisers. So, that group has a brand safety initiative, and this lawsuit alleges that the brand safety initiative and big companies that are members, CVS, Unilever, big guys here, conspired to illegally, conspired to illegally boycott X and deprive it of millions of dollars. Now, remind us, Kara, for those of us who have forgotten, why did advertisers flee X?

   2. KSKara Swisher0:30

      Well, it's easy. He told them not to advertise on his site.

   3. NKNoel King0:34

      (laughs)

   4. KSKara Swisher0:34

      He told them to go fuck themselves. He told them he's gonna let, you know, he's creating this lovely Nazi porn bar as I like to call it. Um, I, it's an astonishing lawsuit, and of course it was introduced by, you know, (sighs) if you want to continue with Nazis, the Eva Braun of this situation, um, uh, Linda Yaccarino, who, um, who just did this weird hostage-like video where she, she's such a scold as a person, um, and let me just say, uh, she g- sh- we had a set-to when we, at our conference, our co-conference last year, which she utterly made up, uh, that we had sandbagged her. She just did a terrible performance, and I've never seen someone act so prof- unprofessionally at a conference as her over the years. So, let me just put that out there. Um, she, she threw a fit because she-

   5. NKNoel King1:21

      What did she do? Yeah.

   6. KSKara Swisher1:22

      ... didn't like who we had on stage before her, which of course is, that's exactly what a CEO does. Um, anyway, it was introduced, this idea that, th- the idea is that advertisers are plotting against them. They're conspiracy-minded people, and she has a situation where e- she's this, the purported c-, I call her CEO in name only, a sidenote, um, she, uh, she, she thinks that people have to advertise on their site even if they don't like what they're doing on their site, and it's so anti-capitalist, it's so ridiculous. This whole case, these, this guy went out of his way to tell advertisers to go fuck themselves a number, not just once, but a dozen times essentially, and now he doesn't like what he's reaping, what he, which is that he took away safety, he took away, he pl- replatformed all these terrible people, um, y- you know, and then of course he's doing it in the name of free speech, but then he cuts the speech of people he doesn't like, by the way. He's, he's apparently suppressing Kamala Harris's stuff, um, right now on the site. He closed down the Doods for Kamala Harris for a second.

   7. NKNoel King2:24

      Did he?

   8. KSKara Swisher2:25

      Um, you know-

   9. NKNoel King2:25

      I didn't know that.

   10. KSKara Swisher2:25

       ... he just, this is just endless bullshit by these people, but at, it's very base. If advertisers don't want to advertise on your shitty platform, they shouldn't be made to. And even if they get together and say, "Isn't it a shitty platform?" it doesn't mean it's illegal. It's just, god, this is a shitty platform. And Linda Yaccarino who worked for NBC would have understood this rather easily. I don't want to advertise where it's unsafe, where I'm gonna suddenly be next to Andrew Tate or-

   11. NKNoel King2:52

       Yeah.

   12. KSKara Swisher2:52

       ... whoever it happens to be. It's just, this is just fucking nonsense. It's just ... Um, he posted also, of course, because he's such a conspiracy-minded person, "We tried peace for two years, now it's war." Well, if that was peace, I can't wait for the war because-

   13. NKNoel King3:05

       What is this reference? I'm, I'm actually really curious about this.

   14. KSKara Swisher3:07

       Mm-hmm.

   15. NKNoel King3:08

       Has, has he done outreach to advertisers? Like what, what-

   16. KSKara Swisher3:10

       No, every time he does it he shows up, like this was, he, you know, at this DealBook Summit last year, he told advertisers to fuck off including, specifically Disney, uh, specifically-

   17. NKNoel King3:20

       Oh.

   18. KSKara Swisher3:20

       ... Bob Iger. Um, you know, he essentially said, "Fuck you, Bob." Um, uh, and, uh, I don't know why would they would advertise. It's like, it's not illegal not to advertise or, especially after you've made a, made it a joke that you, you want to do this, and a former FTC policy director told Rolling Stone the lawsuit's "a hideous joke" and Elon is "engaging in fantasy world of antitrust." You know, s- we just had a really important antitrust decision around Google, but this isn't antitrust, uh, in any way.

   19. NKNoel King3:49

       But, but what do you... So, very curious about this.

   20. KSKara Swisher3:51

       Mm-hmm.

   21. NKNoel King3:52

       Let's get inside his head for a second. It doesn't seem like antitrust. It is still a lawsuit.

   22. KSKara Swisher3:56

       Mm-hmm.

   23. NKNoel King3:57

       D- does he think, does Elon think there is an antitrust wave to be ridden here? That perhaps a, a judge will find this sympathetic? Like, what is he trying to do here?

   24. KSKara Swisher4:05

       He's, they have, they have court shopped, right? They're putting it in this court where this other lawsuit is going on against, I think it's Media Matters, where they, they just were reporting that it's un-, more unsafe than ever on Twitt- Twitter which anyone who uses it on, I don't use it anymore because it's unsafe. It's a case which is expensive to Media Matters, probably put it out of business. He sued OpenAI, and then he unsued them, and now he's suing them again. Um, he sued another group, uh, w- that Roberta Kaplan actually who did the, uh, E. Jean Carroll case, uh, was dismissed, you know. He, this is his, this is his, his love language is lawsuits, right? Um, or hate-

   25. NKNoel King4:39

       Is he winning anything?

   26. KSKara Swisher4:40

       No. No.

   27. NKNoel King4:40

       And look, is he, is he winning anything tangible?

   28. KSKara Swisher4:42

       No, but this judge is, is predisposed toward it. They judge shopped essentially where they're putting this thing. And so he's just, it doesn't matter, like this is the, this is a tactic that Peter Thiel uses, like let's just sue them and so they, you know, it's expensive, it's, it's ridiculous, it's, um, they may, maybe they'll give in. It, they... Guess who does this? Donald Trump. Let's not pay them.

   29. NKNoel King5:03

       Mm.

   30. KSKara Swisher5:03

       Let them sue us and then maybe we'll pay less. And I think this is his tactic, and you know, one of the things that's important here is y- so years ago when someone was talking about a lawsuit and I s- I called them and they said, "They think they're gonna shame you." And he, and the guy goes, "Well, I'm shameless, so that's gonna be a problem."
2. 15:00 – 17:55

   I don't think anything's…

   1. KSKara Swisher15:00

      in ownership." Now, of course, that's the situation in which Congress passed, which it will ban TikTok if it doesn't have a change of ownership. So, she's for banning TikTok, I guess. (laughs) It's kind of a little wordplay there, but your thoughts?

   2. NKNoel King15:12

      I don't think anything's gonna change because, uh, uh ... TikTok is powerful. I get it. I don't think Kamala Harris is gonna change any of her positions because a lot of people m- made memes about her.

   3. KSKara Swisher15:22

      Mm-hmm.

   4. NKNoel King15:23

      I don't think that changes her mind at all.

   5. KSKara Swisher15:24

      Mm-hmm.

   6. NKNoel King15:24

      Um, I think sh- it ... She probably thinks it's great if it helps her win an election, but I don't, I don't, I don't see a link here.

   7. KSKara Swisher15:31

      Yeah.

   8. NKNoel King15:31

      I don't see a link.

   9. KSKara Swisher15:31

      Yeah, I think she's not gonna ch- ... I think Congress has passed this law. We'll see where it goes. There'll be a ch- probably be a change of ownership. We'll see what the Chinese government does. Um, but I suspect knowing her a little bit, she is a, uh, a lawyer at heart, right? She's a litigator.

   10. NKNoel King15:47

       Mm-hmm.

   11. KSKara Swisher15:47

       Um, and she probably does s- understand this better than Biden ever could. Like that the con- that the, that the constitutional issues are quite significant here in terms of banning this thing, um, and it may not ever go anywhere. So, I s- I think she knows a little bit more about where it's headed. Secondly, uh, probably in terms of national security, w- she probably has more heft in that regard. So, a- as with a lot of things with Harris, and I love your comment, is she seems to be trying to go right down the middle on everything, like whether it was now fracking or, or Gaza or whatever. She seems to be trying to take a very modulated position. I think she'll do that here. What about you?

   12. NKNoel King16:25

       Yeah. Yeah. I think she's, I think she has to. I mean, the, the critique is gonna be she's a wild-eyed lefty.

   13. KSKara Swisher16:32

       Mm-hmm.

   14. NKNoel King16:33

       Look at her positions in the 2020 campaign, which did not go well for her.

   15. KSKara Swisher16:37

       Mm-hmm.

   16. NKNoel King16:37

       And so her moving more into the center absolutely makes a lot of sense to me. She wants to win an election.

   17. KSKara Swisher16:44

       Mm-hmm.

   18. NKNoel King16:45

       She is not, she is not trying to distinguish herself from a Joe Biden and a Beto O'Rourke, whoever the heck. I can't ... It was-

   19. KSKara Swisher16:51

       I don't know.

   20. NKNoel King16:51

       ... four years ago. I can't rem- but there were so many of them. She's not trying to distinguish herself from all those-

   21. KSKara Swisher16:56

       Mm-hmm.

   22. NKNoel King16:56

       ... guys and gals this time. She's trying to win an election, and moderating is a way to do that.

   23. KSKara Swisher17:02

       Yeah. I, I have to tell you, having covered, having known her since she was district attorney in San Francisco even before she was running for that very-

   24. NKNoel King17:08

       No kidding.

   25. KSKara Swisher17:09

       Yeah. Um, when she was a local prosecutor. For San Francisco, she's very conservative and I've always found her a modulating person. I think that 2020 thing was a li- ... She's always seems to find the center, uh, even with ... I used to argue with her about internet stuff. I'm like, "You could be a little tougher." But she's always like, "On one hand, on the other ... " She's a little more ... I, I've never found her to be a wild ... I, I know a lot of liberals from San Francisco and she wasn't ... She w- I wouldn't put her in that bucket in any way. She, she loved the tech moguls. She, she wasn't like hostile to them. She was, she was critical but not hostile. You know? I don't ... I think it's kind of a lie that she's a crazy liberal 'cause she's not. I don't know. We'll see. But she ... 2020, she certainly definitely went down that road.

Episode duration: 17:56