Elon Musk's Latest Lawsuit: X vs. Advertisers | Pivot

Noel King 0:00 So, we're talking about one of your favorite people and his latest lawsuit. X filed a federal antitrust lawsuit against the World Federation of Advertisers. So, that group has a brand safety initiative, and this lawsuit alleges that the brand safety initiative and big companies that are members, CVS, Unilever, big guys here, conspired to illegally, conspired to illegally boycott X and deprive it of millions of dollars. Now, remind us, Kara, for those of us who have forgotten, why did advertisers flee X?

Kara Swisher 0:30 Well, it's easy. He told them not to advertise on his site.

Noel King 0:34 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 0:34 He told them to go fuck themselves. He told them he's gonna let, you know, he's creating this lovely Nazi porn bar as I like to call it. Um, I, it's an astonishing lawsuit, and of course it was introduced by, you know, (sighs) if you want to continue with Nazis, the Eva Braun of this situation, um, uh, Linda Yaccarino, who, um, who just did this weird hostage-like video where she, she's such a scold as a person, um, and let me just say, uh, she g- sh- we had a set-to when we, at our conference, our co-conference last year, which she utterly made up, uh, that we had sandbagged her. She just did a terrible performance, and I've never seen someone act so prof- unprofessionally at a conference as her over the years. So, let me just put that out there. Um, she, she threw a fit because she-

Noel King 1:21 What did she do? Yeah.

Kara Swisher 1:22 ... didn't like who we had on stage before her, which of course is, that's exactly what a CEO does. Um, anyway, it was introduced, this idea that, th- the idea is that advertisers are plotting against them. They're conspiracy-minded people, and she has a situation where e- she's this, the purported c-, I call her CEO in name only, a sidenote, um, she, uh, she, she thinks that people have to advertise on their site even if they don't like what they're doing on their site, and it's so anti-capitalist, it's so ridiculous. This whole case, these, this guy went out of his way to tell advertisers to go fuck themselves a number, not just once, but a dozen times essentially, and now he doesn't like what he's reaping, what he, which is that he took away safety, he took away, he pl- replatformed all these terrible people, um, y- you know, and then of course he's doing it in the name of free speech, but then he cuts the speech of people he doesn't like, by the way. He's, he's apparently suppressing Kamala Harris's stuff, um, right now on the site. He closed down the Doods for Kamala Harris for a second.

Noel King 2:24 Did he?

Kara Swisher 2:25 Um, you know-

Noel King 2:25 I didn't know that.

Kara Swisher 2:25 ... he just, this is just endless bullshit by these people, but at, it's very base. If advertisers don't want to advertise on your shitty platform, they shouldn't be made to. And even if they get together and say, "Isn't it a shitty platform?" it doesn't mean it's illegal. It's just, god, this is a shitty platform. And Linda Yaccarino who worked for NBC would have understood this rather easily. I don't want to advertise where it's unsafe, where I'm gonna suddenly be next to Andrew Tate or-

Noel King 2:52 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 2:52 ... whoever it happens to be. It's just, this is just fucking nonsense. It's just ... Um, he posted also, of course, because he's such a conspiracy-minded person, "We tried peace for two years, now it's war." Well, if that was peace, I can't wait for the war because-

Noel King 3:05 What is this reference? I'm, I'm actually really curious about this.

Kara Swisher 3:07 Mm-hmm.

Noel King 3:08 Has, has he done outreach to advertisers? Like what, what-

Kara Swisher 3:10 No, every time he does it he shows up, like this was, he, you know, at this DealBook Summit last year, he told advertisers to fuck off including, specifically Disney, uh, specifically-

Noel King 3:20 Oh.

Kara Swisher 3:20 ... Bob Iger. Um, you know, he essentially said, "Fuck you, Bob." Um, uh, and, uh, I don't know why would they would advertise. It's like, it's not illegal not to advertise or, especially after you've made a, made it a joke that you, you want to do this, and a former FTC policy director told Rolling Stone the lawsuit's "a hideous joke" and Elon is "engaging in fantasy world of antitrust." You know, s- we just had a really important antitrust decision around Google, but this isn't antitrust, uh, in any way.

Noel King 3:49 But, but what do you... So, very curious about this.

Kara Swisher 3:51 Mm-hmm.

Noel King 3:52 Let's get inside his head for a second. It doesn't seem like antitrust. It is still a lawsuit.

Kara Swisher 3:56 Mm-hmm.

Noel King 3:57 D- does he think, does Elon think there is an antitrust wave to be ridden here? That perhaps a, a judge will find this sympathetic? Like, what is he trying to do here?

Kara Swisher 4:05 He's, they have, they have court shopped, right? They're putting it in this court where this other lawsuit is going on against, I think it's Media Matters, where they, they just were reporting that it's un-, more unsafe than ever on Twitt- Twitter which anyone who uses it on, I don't use it anymore because it's unsafe. It's a case which is expensive to Media Matters, probably put it out of business. He sued OpenAI, and then he unsued them, and now he's suing them again. Um, he sued another group, uh, w- that Roberta Kaplan actually who did the, uh, E. Jean Carroll case, uh, was dismissed, you know. He, this is his, this is his, his love language is lawsuits, right? Um, or hate-

Noel King 4:39 Is he winning anything?

Kara Swisher 4:40 No. No.

Noel King 4:40 And look, is he, is he winning anything tangible?

Kara Swisher 4:42 No, but this judge is, is predisposed toward it. They judge shopped essentially where they're putting this thing. And so he's just, it doesn't matter, like this is the, this is a tactic that Peter Thiel uses, like let's just sue them and so they, you know, it's expensive, it's, it's ridiculous, it's, um, they may, maybe they'll give in. It, they... Guess who does this? Donald Trump. Let's not pay them.

Noel King 5:03 Mm.

Kara Swisher 5:03 Let them sue us and then maybe we'll pay less. And I think this is his tactic, and you know, one of the things that's important here is y- so years ago when someone was talking about a lawsuit and I s- I called them and they said, "They think they're gonna shame you." And he, and the guy goes, "Well, I'm shameless, so that's gonna be a problem."

Noel King 5:20 Huh.

Kara Swisher 5:20 And this guy is shameless. That's all. Um, you know, he's, they've been trying to do this idea around, with representatives like Jim Jordan around advertising that these, that it, that they're anti-conservative bias, um... And again, this, uh, this, this, it is a Texas judge I think it is who's doing this, um, so that's what they're trying to do is, is, is judge shop and put it in a place where at least it doesn't go away.

Noel King 5:44 Can we, can we just briefly, you know Linda Yaccarino. You've met her. The video in which Linda Yaccarino announces this lawsuit is v- is deeply strange.

Kara Swisher 5:53 Yes.

Noel King 5:53 Right? She's-

Kara Swisher 5:54 Very.

Noel King 5:55 She's walleyed. She looks nervous. She's using big expressive hand gestures.

Kara Swisher 5:59 Mm-hmm.

Noel King 5:59 Are, are we-What are we to make of this? Why does she look- if she's fully on board, maybe she's not, why does it look like a hostage video? Like, what's- what's going on? She's a CEO.

Kara Swisher 6:09 Look, she's just a terrible... She's a terrible, terrible, um, uh, communicator.

Noel King 6:14 Awful.

Kara Swisher 6:14 She was sort of a lower... She's not a lower level executive, she was a head of advertising at NBC, but they didn't want to make her CEO at NBC. There was... She thought she should be in... When- when one of the, you know, one of the various and sundry people left, she thought she should be CEO. They would... Had no interest in her as CEO and then she went out and tried to get this job at Twitter, which I actually broke the news up, which is interesting.

Noel King 6:35 Huh.

Kara Swisher 6:36 Um, but, um, you know, she's- she styles herself as a CEO and she's deci-... She... I guess she took CEO classes and decided tough lady thing, you know?

Noel King 6:44 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 6:45 It's just pathetic 'cause there's so few women CEOs, she's so bad at it, it's embarrassing. Uh, this is what I wrote on- on Threads, "The truth is Linda is a tiresome scold of an executive with an alleged r- uh, rep for yelling at minions according to numerous sources at X." She's a sc-... She... That's what a lot of people tell me. She certainly threw a loud fit at one of my events and I talked about that. Um, but she's... I- I call her an epic corporate laughing stock and a vag- vaguely depressing lackey. I think she's all in for- for Elon. She's- she's a conservative, which is great, but she's one of those conservatives, right? Like, cannot entertain anybody that thinks he's a jerk, right? Or anything like that. And so, um, she's unrealistic and ambitious and, um, you know, and so she's gonna... She goes along with him, she's closed the San Francisco office, she lost, you know, a number of people who've worked for her a long time have left or have been fired by her, and she's all in with Elon. So, she's not a hostage in any way. I was teasing when I said it looks like a hostage video, it's not.

Noel King 7:43 But it does. I mean, like, yes, you were joking, you know her. To me, somebody who doesn't know her, it actually does.

Kara Swisher 7:49 Yeah.

Noel King 7:49 It does look like that. I-

Kara Swisher 7:51 I hope someday...

Noel King 7:52 Go ahead.

Kara Swisher 7:52 You know, sh-... I can't say I liked her a lot 'cause she's sort of this tough ad lady. I call her an ad lady from Queens, which annoys her, which I think I'll do again.

Noel King 8:00 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 8:00 Um, t- tough ad lady from Queens. I suspect, uh, 10 years from now she'll call me and say, "That was so bad, I'm so sorry." Like, and... You know, maybe, but maybe not. You know, I think she really believes in this guy, y- you know, and she's getting a bill of goods and this is her big moment, she's getting paid... She's hoping to get paid a lot. I'll tell you something, she's gonna... It's gonna end up the same place everyone who works for him ends up, which is in a lawsuit with him.

Noel King 8:23 Ashes.

Kara Swisher 8:23 Right? Or some-

Noel King 8:24 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 8:24 ... or some fight. Um, you know, she- she's a believer. I... She's- she believes this and this is what she imagines a tough lady CEO looks like or a tough CEO looks like. And instead, she- she looks like a clown, as... Once... Again and again and again. As she did on stage at CODE, she looked like a clown. She was unprepared, kind of vaguely weird, strange affects, things like that. I don't know. I just... I find her irritable.

Noel King 8:49 Um, you said they're conspiracy minded, they... There's an im-... They're... They think that everybody's against them.

Kara Swisher 8:54 Mm-hmm.

Noel King 8:54 This is interesting.

Kara Swisher 8:55 Mm-hmm.

Noel King 8:56 That is- that is an... That is a good reason to sue if you think everybody's out to get you.

Kara Swisher 9:00 Yeah.

Noel King 9:01 Get it in court and prove it. Um, did you see what Elon is doing in the UK?

Kara Swisher 9:05 That's dangerous. That's actually dangerous.

Noel King 9:08 It's it-

Kara Swisher 9:08 He's also doing it here with a lot of, like... He has PACs here that are doing things that- that are being investigated. No, he's got his little fingers in everything, including saving people at the space station. This guy is a dangerous character and what he's doing in Britain, where he, um... He's been criticizing, um, the prime minister, the new prime minister, um, following this terrible stabbing attack and he... But he's been pushing misinformation about who did it and he- he's- he's putting out, you know... This... He just had to take one down today, but what he did, he posted, "Civil war is inevitable."

Noel King 9:39 Yeah. Yeah.

Kara Swisher 9:40 He's creating all kinds of misinformation and so... And he's platformed a lot of these people who are organizing all these violent protests. They seem to be stemming the tide 'cause regular people came out and said, "That's enough," right?

Noel King 9:51 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 9:52 Essentially.

Noel King 9:52 That's right.

Kara Swisher 9:53 But he's-

Noel King 9:53 Last night there was a worry that it was gonna explode again and then it didn't.

Kara Swisher 9:57 It didn't.

Noel King 9:57 We did a story on this. We got a- an- uh, an email from The Guardian reporter.

Kara Swisher 10:01 Mm-hmm.

Noel King 10:01 And she told us, um... You know, she hangs up the phone, I'm on my wa- way out to the protest and she said that it didn't happen.

Kara Swisher 10:07 Right.

Noel King 10:07 So... Yes, yeah.

Kara Swisher 10:08 Right, it didn't. I mean, these things tend to... They do tend to burn themselves out, but these are dangerous people who- who thrive on violence, right? And so, you know, he's... I- I- I- I can't believe I'm saying this, but he's like trying to be Rupert Murdoch, except Rupert Murdoch is controlled about how he decimates society, (laughs) you know what I mean?

Noel King 10:26 Yeah. Yeah.

Kara Swisher 10:26 Like, he's like a violent am-... Uh, I mean, the- the- the pushing of violence, saying, "Civil unrest in is inevitable," putting out incorrect memes, platforming people who are lying, creating all kinds of fake videos, it's very dangerous and you could... It's just a little taste of what he was gonna do here in this country if he has the ability. He's already putting out Kamala Harris as a communist and, you know, all kinds of stuff. I mean, he's a dangerous person, absolutely.

Noel King 10:52 How much influence... How much influence... All right, I was thinking about this.

Kara Swisher 10:55 Mm-hmm.

Noel King 10:55 We did this story, we learned that a lot of the young men in the UK that are out in the streets are kind of like angry about immigration-

Kara Swisher 11:02 Everything.

Noel King 11:02 ... loosely affiliated, maybe far right, maybe just kind of pissed off, and-

Kara Swisher 11:06 Likes to fight.

Noel King 11:07 And what I... What I... Likes to fight. What I wonder is, does... What is the moment when Elon Musk and this crap loses credibility with them? You can't say, "Civil w-" All right, hear me out. Civil war is inevitable, civil war doesn't happen. Do we wake up then and say, "Oh, that guy was wrong. That guy's repeatedly wrong. I don't believe him anymore."

Kara Swisher 11:26 Welcome to this person he's interviewing on Monday, Donald Trump. No, we don't.

Noel King 11:30 Oh.

Kara Swisher 11:30 Right? No.

Noel King 11:32 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 11:32 Like... Uh, you know, it's interesting. Some... A friend of mine was working on a story about uh, uh, sexual harassment things around someone and they were asking if, you know... If- if people at the company were concerned about it and I said, "Can I try to get, uh, something through to you?" They don't care. They don't care.

Noel King 11:48 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 11:48 Like, nobody c-... The people who are for Trump do not care that he's racist, they do not care he's a misogynist, they don't care, and that, I think, is something you would have to get your head around. The same thing with Elon. These people who follow him-... he's accountable to no one. I mean, he's the richest person in the world and this is something UK's Technology Minister said, "He's accountable to no one."

Noel King 12:08 Yeah. Yeah.

Kara Swisher 12:08 And he controls very ... In this case, both of them can- could control very important things, right? And so, um, you know, no, I think people who follow him like him. Um, and, uh, they don't go, "Oh, look, he was wrong again. Look, he was wrong again. Look, he was w-" You know, "Look, he was ... Remember he was backing DeSantis and then he was backing RFK Jr."

Noel King 12:27 I sure do. I sure do.

Kara Swisher 12:28 Then he was ... You know, he's been wrong frequently. It just doesn't-

Noel King 12:32 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 12:32 They don't, they drop ... One of the strengths of misinformation is when you have a piece of misinformation and it doesn't turn out to be true, you move to the next one, right?

Noel King 12:41 Yeah. Yeah.

Kara Swisher 12:41 You don't stay here and go, "Oh." You don't have a contemplation situation. Um, and I ... Let me tell you, and then we should move on to the last three. Um, years ... I started talking about my mom, but I did an interview with Hillary Clinton. And a couple of days later, my mom called me and she goes, she goes, "Oh, Hillary Clinton is saying terrible things about people like me." And I'm like, "What? What did they s- what is she saying now?" And she started repeating things. I'm like, "Wow, that sounds like my interview, but that's not what I, what she said," right? It was completely-

Noel King 13:09 Hmm.

Kara Swisher 13:09 It was a complete, um, mutation of what she said, like a very vicious one.

Noel King 13:15 Huh.

Kara Swisher 13:15 And I said, "No, no, that was my interview. She didn't say that." And my mother said, "Oh, she said it," and I was like, "No, she didn't. She said it to me. I'm your daughter and I did the interview. She did not say that." "No, you're wrong. She said it." This was a conversation I had. So, I said, "Why don't you go back and listen to the interview and then call me back?" And she listened to it and she called me back. She goes, "Okay, she didn't say it." But let me talk about the emails. Like she moved, like the fact that she was wrong was not something that mattered.

Noel King 13:40 Yeah. Yep.

Kara Swisher 13:41 So, I think that's what's happening.

Noel King 13:41 On to the next, on to the next, on to the next.

Kara Swisher 13:43 Yeah, 'cause ... And then Elon keeps up the bread and circuses with them, right? So, now-

Noel King 13:48 Yeah, he'll be on to something new by next week, right?

Kara Swisher 13:50 Oh. Oh, no, and then he attacks trans people.

Noel King 13:52 UK is gonna burn up.

Kara Swisher 13:52 His daughter is giving him a, te- giving him a lesson in social media.

Noel King 13:55 Saw that. I saw that.

Kara Swisher 13:57 She's terrific. She's really good, uh ... She ... It's interesting 'cause her sense of humor is not unlike the way his used to be, which was, um ... She's very clever. She's-

Noel King 14:05 Have you met her?

Kara Swisher 14:06 I ... A long time ago when ...

Noel King 14:08 Okay.

Kara Swisher 14:08 A long, long, long time ago-

Noel King 14:09 Okay.

Kara Swisher 14:10 ... when they were young kids. But, um, no, not recently. Not recently. Um, but, you know, she's, she's, she's killing it (laughs) on, on social media, I have to say, 'cause she's sick of her father putting stuff out about her and her life that isn't true.

Noel King 14:23 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 14:23 And has apparently decided, "That's enough. I've had enough of you and taking, stealing my narrative," which I think is great. Okay, Noel, let's pivot to a listener question. This question came in via email. I'll read it. "Given Vice President, given VP Harris's instant success on the TikTok platform, I'm curious what you both think will happen to TikTok should VP Harris win the presidency? How will this influence the Congress's position on TikTok? Thanks. Ian from Chicago. P.S. Love the show." Um, just for clarification, last week, a spokesperson for Harris said, "The VP has said before, we don't want to ban TikTok, we would just like to see a change in ownership." Now, of course, that's the situation in which Congress passed, which it will ban TikTok if it doesn't have a change of ownership. So, she's for banning TikTok, I guess. (laughs) It's kind of a little wordplay there, but your thoughts?

Noel King 15:12 I don't think anything's gonna change because, uh, uh ... TikTok is powerful. I get it. I don't think Kamala Harris is gonna change any of her positions because a lot of people m- made memes about her.

Kara Swisher 15:22 Mm-hmm.

Noel King 15:23 I don't think that changes her mind at all.

Kara Swisher 15:24 Mm-hmm.

Noel King 15:24 Um, I think sh- it ... She probably thinks it's great if it helps her win an election, but I don't, I don't, I don't see a link here.

Kara Swisher 15:31 Yeah.

Noel King 15:31 I don't see a link.

Kara Swisher 15:31 Yeah, I think she's not gonna ch- ... I think Congress has passed this law. We'll see where it goes. There'll be a ch- probably be a change of ownership. We'll see what the Chinese government does. Um, but I suspect knowing her a little bit, she is a, uh, a lawyer at heart, right? She's a litigator.

Noel King 15:47 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 15:47 Um, and she probably does s- understand this better than Biden ever could. Like that the con- that the, that the constitutional issues are quite significant here in terms of banning this thing, um, and it may not ever go anywhere. So, I s- I think she knows a little bit more about where it's headed. Secondly, uh, probably in terms of national security, w- she probably has more heft in that regard. So, a- as with a lot of things with Harris, and I love your comment, is she seems to be trying to go right down the middle on everything, like whether it was now fracking or, or Gaza or whatever. She seems to be trying to take a very modulated position. I think she'll do that here. What about you?

Noel King 16:25 Yeah. Yeah. I think she's, I think she has to. I mean, the, the critique is gonna be she's a wild-eyed lefty.

Kara Swisher 16:32 Mm-hmm.

Noel King 16:33 Look at her positions in the 2020 campaign, which did not go well for her.

Kara Swisher 16:37 Mm-hmm.

Noel King 16:37 And so her moving more into the center absolutely makes a lot of sense to me. She wants to win an election.

Kara Swisher 16:44 Mm-hmm.

Noel King 16:45 She is not, she is not trying to distinguish herself from a Joe Biden and a Beto O'Rourke, whoever the heck. I can't ... It was-

Kara Swisher 16:51 I don't know.

Noel King 16:51 ... four years ago. I can't rem- but there were so many of them. She's not trying to distinguish herself from all those-

Kara Swisher 16:56 Mm-hmm.

Noel King 16:56 ... guys and gals this time. She's trying to win an election, and moderating is a way to do that.

Kara Swisher 17:02 Yeah. I, I have to tell you, having covered, having known her since she was district attorney in San Francisco even before she was running for that very-

Noel King 17:08 No kidding.

Kara Swisher 17:09 Yeah. Um, when she was a local prosecutor. For San Francisco, she's very conservative and I've always found her a modulating person. I think that 2020 thing was a li- ... She's always seems to find the center, uh, even with ... I used to argue with her about internet stuff. I'm like, "You could be a little tougher." But she's always like, "On one hand, on the other ... " She's a little more ... I, I've never found her to be a wild ... I, I know a lot of liberals from San Francisco and she wasn't ... She w- I wouldn't put her in that bucket in any way. She, she loved the tech moguls. She, she wasn't like hostile to them. She was, she was critical but not hostile. You know? I don't ... I think it's kind of a lie that she's a crazy liberal 'cause she's not. I don't know. We'll see. But she ... 2020, she certainly definitely went down that road.