PivotEpstein Files: How New Documents Expose a Wider Network | Pivot
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
65 min read · 12,644 words- 0:00 – 0:22
Intro
- SGScott Galloway
There needs to be more prison and more judgment around who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, I agree, but there's a lot of people who knew exactly what they were doing. [upbeat music] Hi, everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
Resist and Unsubscribe
- 0:22 – 8:04
Resist and Unsubscribe February
- KSKara Swisher
February has begun. How's it going? You, you've been putting up a lot-- You've been really [chuckles] getting rid of shit. I've been getting rid of a lot, but not like you.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
I still have Uber. I was just going to pause it and use Lyft instead.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, it sucks when you've got to walk the walk, um.
- KSKara Swisher
I know, I know.
- SGScott Galloway
So, I mean, I'm inside-- You'd be a better judge of how it's going than me. I'm, I've literally, I've gotten hundreds, and I'm about to cross a thousand emails of people with screenshots of them unsubscribing. Obviously, you need hundreds of thousands, maybe millions. I'm going on CNN, MSNBC, PBS. I'm doing all-- I'm doing the rounds there. I've heard from about-
- KSKara Swisher
I think it's taken off. I have to tell you, I'm hearing it from lots of people.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, thanks. I think-- Well, I hope you're right. You're probably being generous because you like me.
- KSKara Swisher
No.
- SGScott Galloway
But I've heard from about a third of the companies, either their CEOs, and they've been very polite, but they're like: "You realize that I supported this, and I'm against ICE?" And I'm like: "Yeah, to me, you are, but I haven't heard you say dick publicly."
- KSKara Swisher
Right. Not dick.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, and what's interesting is through the process, for example, I unsubscribed [chuckles] from Uber-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Or I canceled my Uber account.
- KSKara Swisher
That was a big one. I thought that was a big deal.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, my God! Before you go, it tells you, all right, I've ordered thirty-seven times from Uber Eats. How many Ubers have I taken in the last ten years? Guess.
- KSKara Swisher
I don't know. Thousands.
- SGScott Galloway
Thirty-seven hundred and forty-seven.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And I did some, I did some math here. When I start-
- KSKara Swisher
Everybody thought you had a private driver. I'm like: "He doesn't have a fucking private driver." [chuckles]
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, it's called Uber.
- KSKara Swisher
He uses Uber Black.
- SGScott Galloway
It's called Dara Khosrowshahi.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, that's right.
- SGScott Galloway
Anyways, I absolutely love Uber Lux.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And this is a story of privilege. Let me do my land acknowledgments.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
Most people don't have the money I have. Anyways, but I've taken three hundred and fifty Ubers a year for the last ten years on average. The average price of Uber Lux has gone from forty to sixty dollars to eighty to one twenty, and this is what these companies do. They do predatory pricing, they price it below market, incredible value proposition. They wait till they consolidate the market, then they start raising prices, which Uber has done seven to ten percent a year for the last decade. So this year, in twenty twenty-five, do you know how much I'm spending a year on Uber?
- 8:04 – 23:54
Epstein Files Released
- KSKara Swisher
released... This was something over the weekend, three point five million new pages of Epstein-related files late last week. They're not even the worst ones. There's three million more that must be the worst, including two thousand videos and a hundred and eighty thousand images, a mere forty-two days after the federally mandated deadline. By the way, they are not following the law. There are millions more they need to release. They said they weren't going to, but they are gonna have to, I think. Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche said the release brings the DOJ into compliance with the Epstein Files Transparency Act. It doesn't. The lawmakers and survivors are calling the document dump inadequate and filled with redaction errors. At least fifty-fi- fifty-three hundred documents mention Donald Trump. A lot of these are unverified tips, but Trump said he's been told the latest release absolves him. It does not. The files show how Epstein's network stretched across Hollywood, Wall Street, Washington, Silicon Valley. That's what's really quite fascinating here, with people like Brett Ratner, who was just at the White House, wh- he did the Melania document. Howard Lutnick, who lied about being in touch with Epstein, he made a big show of not thinking he was awful and then was hanging out with him in his place i, i, in, in the Caribbean. Bill Gates, Elon Musk, all appearing in the documents. Elon Musk looked like he's losing a, mmm, having a, a stroke in real time, um, uh, over these things and trying to pretend he doesn't, mmm, m- mean anything. So talk about this, and obviously, another person that's gotten caught up, someone we've talked about, uh, Peter Attia, a number of really distasteful texts, thousands of them, um, actually. Uh, so lots of people involved, they really strut the gamut, and they're all very social with each other. Casey Wasserman, who's running the Olympic, uh, uh, effort, for example, apologized. Um, I'll take-- note, just so you know, a lot of fake Elon emails floating out there, but it's clear his relationship with Elon is not how he's framed it in the past, which is he wasn't interested. He's been posting on X all weekend, saying he's aware, uh, his emails to Epstein could be misinterpreted. He's also back and forth with Reid Hoffman, who, uh, Reid really got him, saying: "If you really cared about the victims, you wouldn't have spent two hundred and ten million dollars on Donald Trump," and also have all that, uh, non-consensual, uh, uh, uh, stuff on, on, on Grok, which I think is absolutely right. So thoughts, Scott? I mean, it- it's been pretty riveting in a lot of ways.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, it's, it... [exhales] I mean, there's just so much here. One, I think you have to put on your critical thinking cap and discern between different acts, criminal acts, poor judgment, and people who are just unlucky. Um, any other administration would be taking advantage of the moment to say, "We have appointed a special counsel here, and we are going to prosecute people based on this information." And-
- KSKara Swisher
The criminal actors
- SGScott Galloway
... I- if you, i- if, if you had sex with an underage girl, you should be subject to criminal prosecution, and these files seem to, seem to indicate that that absolutely happened here. And it, all this bullshit about concern over the victims, well, okay, the way you bring closure and create incentives such that other people don't do this is you criminally prosecute. There's another group of people that I think is even bigger, and that is the people who have demonstrated really poor judgment by cohort and collaborating, commiserating with a convicted pedophile. Now-
- KSKara Swisher
So let me add, Steve Bannon was right up in his group. He was-- They were, like, freaking friends.
- SGScott Galloway
Right, and those people should be shamed. Maybe those people, maybe we should not be comfortable with those people in leadership positions. I'd like to think the bar for, you know, president is, i- th- that that would not clear that bar. So b- but people get to decide if they're comfortable with that, those errors in judgment. And then, I think an even bigger concentric circle is a lot of people who are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. And I don't, I, I... You know, I don't wanna-- I'm not saying I absolve them of all, or I, I don't think they're guiltless, but I do think a lot of people got invited to some conference about philanthropy or whatever and ended up in the Epstein files.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. No, I know. I-- Listen, I, I, oddly enough, I, I, I will say, full disclosure, I-- we sent Epstein a note to go to dive into media because we bought a Ted list, and he was a big... Th- a lot of those people in these files are all ex, they were Ted people. They were-- And so we bought mailing lists, and there's an email, uh, that, which, which is a mailing list email. It wasn't from me. Um, he was on it, and then, for some reason, some of the people around him sent him articles I wrote, and that's, you know... So I searched myself immediately, and that's the pretty-- that's the extent of what I can find. I have been at parties, as I said, where, well, uh, big, huge dinner events at, like, Ted. Ted was where he showed up a lot, um, where he m- apparently was. I never met him, but, I mean, you, y- that's what you're talking about, correct?... But right, mine's even less than that.
- SGScott Galloway
Elon Musk, who appears to have been, you know, had a lot, decent amount of interaction with Jeffrey Epstein, immediately goes on the offensive and tries to start pulling Reid Hoffman into it. And Reid looks like he was squarely on the outer circle here.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I would agree.
- SGScott Galloway
But that's how-
- KSKara Swisher
I know a lot about his meetings.
- SGScott Galloway
That's how gross this is getting. The other observation is that there's pedophilia, and what's going on here in some ways is worse. What do I mean by that? I do think there are pedophiles who have a say, a psychi- psychiatric ailment where they are unnaturally attracted sexually to children. And I think a lot of them, not a lot of them, some of them recognize this ailment and seek treatment. Some do not, and some end up becoming pedophiles and should end up in prison. I think in some ways this is worse in the sense that I think the people guilty of having sex with underage girls here, while the term is pedophilia, what it is, is a group of people who feel they are not subject to laws-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes
- SGScott Galloway
... and the standards that everyone else is subject to. I think they think, "Oh, this is fun, it's a party, and if I have sex with an underage girl, I can-- that's fun, and it's a thrill, and I can do it because I am not subject to the same-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... standards and laws as everyone else."
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
So while I think a lot of these people, if in fact there was, and it appears there was, criminal, uh, rape, I, I'm not sure they're pedophiles. What they are is people who've decided that because of their money, power, and proximity to power, that they're not subject to any standards-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... whatsoever.
- KSKara Swisher
No, it's a party. Go ahead. Go ahead, finish.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, in my opinion, in some ways, th- that's, that's the sickness that infects our powerful.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, what's interesting is how it cuts across lo- party lines, right? You have all these [chuckles] Democrat-leaning people-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah
- KSKara Swisher
... ki- kibitzing with, like, a Steve Bannon, kibitzing with a this and that.
- SGScott Galloway
All unified around partying-
- KSKara Swisher
Partying
- SGScott Galloway
... and having sex with, with-
- KSKara Swisher
Saint Barts. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- 23:54 – 29:04
Trump’s New Fed Chair
- KSKara Swisher
made his pick for Fed chair. I predicted it being the most handsome of the white guys, and [chuckles] I was right! The best hair.
- SGScott Galloway
[chuckles]
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, Trump nominated, uh, former Governor, uh, Kevin Warsh on Friday, calling him central casting, and says he'll go down as one of the great Fed chairman, maybe the best. Of course, he did say that about Jerome Powell. Although, uh, Tr- when he picked him, Trump also joked during a speech this weekend that he would sue Warsh if interest rates didn't get lowered. Warsh is set to take the reins from Jerome Powell in May, but he needs to get through the Senate confirmation process first, which might be hard because, uh, Rep, uh, Republican Senator Tom Tillis, who suddenly found his balls, is already saying he's a no until the DOJ probe, uh, into Powell is resolved. Good for him. To- Tillis is really on fire. He's gonna use up all his troublemaking, before he leaves. He was sort of shoved to the side by Trump, uh, by threats from Trump, but now he's st- but he's still in power, so he can do something about it. So talk about this pick. Um, Warsh v- very briefly popped up in the Epstein files, and we were remiss in not saying. He was on a guest list, St. Barts, Christmas 2010.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Again, what you were talking about.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
I get it, I get it. In that case, that's it. So, uh, I don't think that should necessarily be a, it shouldn't be a factor unless more stuff is found out. But, uh, talk about this, this pick. What do you think about Warsh?
- SGScott Galloway
... I think it's, I, uh, to be blunt, I think it's a great pick.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, given the context of who he could have selected.
- KSKara Swisher
Right, [chuckles] that's true. Um, that's true.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean-
- KSKara Swisher
Could have been Don Jr. Go.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if he picked, uh, um, you know, Lara Trump. I, I-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
He does-- my, to give credit where it's due, I think around these, these big financial appointments, I think he shows greater judgment around these appointments than he does around others. But essentially, this guy, he's, he's very qualified. Uh, he's been described as a hawk. The fear around this appointment was that it was someone who would be subject to the political pressures of the presidency, would immediately start cutting interest rates and begin an upward spiral of inflation, and that fear was sending metals to record highs. Silver and gold have exploded, and the best indication that the market likes this pick is that when the pick was announced, metals crashed, or they pulled back. This guy's known as a hawk. He served as liaison between, uh, Bernanke and the Wall Street community during the '08 crisis, which most people think was handled really well. I like the fact he has a reputation as a hawk. I love the fact that these appointments, I believe, are for-
- KSKara Swisher
Explain what a hawk is. He's got, he's, he-
- SGScott Galloway
Well, someone who's more worried about inflation than lower growth, someone who will keep interest rates high longer than maybe they should. They err on the side of lower growth, but less risk of inflation, and everyone is really worried that Trump is putting pressure and would rather err on the side of inflation.
- KSKara Swisher
Do you think he can resist the pressure? He's, he, he saw what happened to Powell.
- SGScott Galloway
That's what's great about these appointments, is that they're, they're fourteen-year tenures.
- KSKara Swisher
I, I get that, but, like, he could be under- go what Powell's been undergone, fake criminal probes, et cetera.
- SGScott Galloway
As far as I know, Powell's serving out his term and hasn't-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... bent an inch.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, and that's why it speaks to the importance and the independence of the Fed, but-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, you wonder what this guy said to Trump, right? And why did he say he's gonna sue him, you know? That's all weird, and I find it weird.
- SGScott Galloway
There's something about the power, and we've seen this on the Supreme Court. A lot of people show up with a history or say one thing to the Senate, and then they get on the Supreme Court, and they take advantage of their lifetime appointment, and they behave differently.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, so-
- 29:04 – 36:43
SpaceX + xAI
- KSKara Swisher
about Elon planning to merge SpaceX and xAI. That's precisely what happened. The acquisition will give the combined company a valuation of one point two five trillion. Flimflammery works for Elon Musk. Investors have also been pushing the idea of bringing Tesla into this. Um, obviously, he had already merged Twitter or X, the service, into xAI, sort of to hide it away in there, all their losses. So now it's Twitter, SpaceX, and xAI, and you can just imagine Tesla being next. In, in the scenario, xAI shares would be swapped for SpaceX shares. Um, just for people who don't know, SpaceX is weighing a June IPO listing, could seek to raise as much as fifty billion dollars, making it the biggest IPO of all time. Um, and again, if that sounds a little familiar, guess what? Kara Swisher predicted it last April, 'cause I know how this guy thinks. [whooshing]
- SGScott Galloway
I've been doing research. You blew my mind with the notion of-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, you like that?
- SGScott Galloway
... a combined Tesla, xAI, and SpaceX. Uh, uh, you know, and I'm, I'm just like, that has totally blown my mind about [chuckles] -
- KSKara Swisher
Good
- SGScott Galloway
... what the-
- KSKara Swisher
As long as you attribute it to me. Just attribute it to me.
- SGScott Galloway
I, I, I do, but that, the idea of him merging all of those companies, like-
- KSKara Swisher
Has to
- SGScott Galloway
... I can't wrap my head around what that would mean. [chuckles]
- KSKara Swisher
He's got to. He's got-- it's the only move. [whooshing] So let's talk about that. I-- the reason I thought about that was because he's an eternal flimflam man, and he needed a new narrative, and this works out for hiding. When he did the first Twitter, xAI merger, he just got rid of the problem of everyone talking about what a shitty business Tes- it was. Tesla's obviously troubled. xAI is being [chuckles] upheld by the valuations of, of AI companies, and SpaceX is a, is a real winner. So w-what do you, w-- and, and, and you could make an argument that they all fit together, right? Sure, why not? Like, data things moving, blah. Um, and he'll do it. So what do you, what do you think?
- SGScott Galloway
After the disaster at Chernobyl, uh, where radiation leaked for, I guess, hundreds of thousands of square miles, there was a lot of farmland and a lot of, a lot of livestock, and what they found was, okay, a lot of the, the beef and lamb and chicken had traces of radiation from the radiation leak at Chernobyl.... and the Russian officials decided, "Okay, we're not going to throw away this meat. We're just going to parse it out and send small amounts mixed in with non-radiated meat to different, to different grocery stores, because a little bit of radiation, as long as we mix it with non-radioactive meat, is okay."
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
This is Musk basically taking his radioactive meat, and that is Tesla, which isn't ten X the value of what it should be trading at. xAI, which is sort of working, isn't, and then wrapping it in the non-radioactive meat, which is SpaceX, which in my opinion, is one of the most impressive companies with the greatest differentiation in history right now. Ninety percent of launch capability, two-thirds of low Earth satellites, and he's basically going to take all of it and say, "Okay, autonomous, AI, space launch capability-
- KSKara Swisher
Man, yeah, moving.
- SGScott Galloway
-and take it all into one-
- KSKara Swisher
Boom!
- SGScott Galloway
-giant, one giant Musk AI innovation space.
- KSKara Swisher
Robots. Tell me about robots.
- SGScott Galloway
That will get robots, that will say, "This is... You have to own this company," because when you look at the-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, beep boop, boop, boop, boop, beep. [chuckles]
- SGScott Galloway
That's right. When you look at Tesla, it's like, okay, it's an automobile company that should be trading at thirty bucks a share, not four hundred or whatever it's at. When you look at xAI, all right, it's a distant seventh LLM. When you look at robots, those make no fucking sense. But if you wrap all of that AI-
- KSKara Swisher
You forgot Twitter
- SGScott Galloway
-autonomous stew-
- KSKara Swisher
Forgot Twitter.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, and Twitter, you know, a platform that's probably worth ten billion, not what he paid. Wrap it all into a communication, satellite, space launch, AI, automated driving, and it's the kind of stock that everyone has to own. So this is an attempt to create, you know, individual in-ingredients, which some of which are amazing and some of which have real problems, and put it all into one stew. I think it's a smart move, quite frankly.
- KSKara Swisher
Turducken. That's what I thought. I think like a, a really, a fucked up flan plan man. That's how I think, right? That's a-- I was like, "What?" I sit there and I go, "What will he do? Oh..." That's how I thought of it. That's exactly. I was like, "Of course."
- SGScott Galloway
Let's go brainstorm about it on an island.
- KSKara Swisher
[chuckles] On an island.
- SGScott Galloway
[chuckles] I got this guy's really smart.
- 36:43 – 42:54
AI News
- KSKara Swisher
there's so much. Let me go through them. Amazon is reportedly discussing an investment up to fifty billion dollars in OpenAI. Meanwhile, NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang is pushing back on reports that his company is looking to scale back on its investment in OpenAI, and that was in The Wall Street Journal. I thought it was an excellent article. This all comes as OpenAI is seeking to raise over a hundred billion dollars. It prepares for a public listing in the fourth quarter. It's trying to beat Anthropic to that punch, and Anthropic is clashing with the Pentagon over whether its AI would be used for surveillance and autonomous lethal operations, putting two hundred million dollar contract at risk. Um, your choice, Scott, any of the above?
- SGScott Galloway
I think the most fragile company with respect to its valuation right now, maybe with the exception of Palantir-... is probably OpenAI. I think OpenAI is racing to establish a leadership position. Uh, but if you look at the fact it doesn't have the firehose of billions of people built in that, that Alphabet has, uh, I don't think... And you look at-- They're getting, I think they're getting attacked from the top, and that is Alphabet and Gemini, which has doubled its share, I think, in the last eighteen months.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Which was inevitable, right? Inevitable.
- SGScott Galloway
But if you have a billion people or two billion people a day coming to your interface-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... and you start introducing AI, that's just very powerful. And then you have Micros-
- KSKara Swisher
It has a Netscape feel to it.
- SGScott Galloway
And then you have, um, Microsoft, which has a recurring revenue relationship with ninety-nine point nine percent of the corporations above a million dollars in revenue. They can introduce really seamlessly different things. And then you have, uh, an adjacent competitor, and that is Anthropic, which has gone after the enterprise market. So to, uh, uh... I think I've told you this, and it's the weakest flex in the world. I was on the board of Gateway Computer, and about twenty-five years ago, if you asked analysts who had better prospects, Gateway or Dell, it was split, and Gateway was at seventy bucks a share. Anyways, fifteen years later, it was at seventy cents a share because they went consumer, and Dell went small and medium-sized business, and we know how the story ends. This story may be unfolding the same way, and that is, OpenAI has a consumer offering, but less than five percent of the people actually go to the paid offering, and Anthropic has gone after the enterprise market, and quite frankly, looks to be beating Anthropic in the enterprise market.
- KSKara Swisher
But it, but it is fighting with the Pentagon. It's interesting because he's becoming the most interesting character, Dario Amodei, in terms of-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah
- KSKara Swisher
... talking about safety. He's sort of-- Everyone sort of attacked him for that, especially that dope, David Sacks. But I think actually he's, he's opening a lane as the safe AI company, right?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, that used to be Altman's lane.
- KSKara Swisher
Right, exactly.
- SGScott Galloway
[chuckles]
- KSKara Swisher
But now he's got it, right? He's opening a lane where everyone's like, "All right."
- SGScott Galloway
Agreed. They're the, they're the clean, well-lit corner of-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... the AI bookstore right now-
- KSKara Swisher
Right
- SGScott Galloway
... is Anthropic. And also, going after Enterprise looks to be the smartest thing, and my-
- KSKara Swisher
'Cause Enterprise wants that. Enterprise, you know, why be in the surveillance and autonomous lethal operations business if you can do just as fine selling things to Costco?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, just get your media buyers at L'Oreal to be more productive. So my friend Greg Shove is the CEO of Section, which helps enterprises upskill for AI. Has-- He said something that just struck me. He said, "OpenAI has basically twelve months to get massive consumer adoption because... Or enter, or, or start," which he doesn't think it's gonna do because people like, there's too many free LLMs, "or they're gonna have to come up with incredible enterprise adoption, or there's absolutely no way they can justify this, this consensual hallucination-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... that they're gonna go public at one or one and a half trillion dollars."
- KSKara Swisher
But, but aren't-- Isn't there a desperation for such stocks? Do you think you'll have a situa... You know, with Elon merges all these things, everyone's gonna buy it. Will everyone not buy this?
- SGScott Galloway
[sighs] The only thing is-
- KSKara Swisher
I mean, would you-
- SGScott Galloway
Okay, they're getting-
- KSKara Swisher
Would you, Scott Galloway, want... Of course, you just got rid of ChatGPT, so you're not allowed to, 'cause they want you to virtue signal the right way.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but you forget I'm a whore.
- 42:54 – 48:21
Trump Rakes in $4B
- KSKara Swisher
and the Trump family enough. He has now pulled in four billion dollars linked to his presidency. Much of that comes from crypto and foreign deals that leverage his presidential status. Last year, an investment firm with ties to the UAE bought nearly half of the Trump family's crypto company, making the two business partners. Eric Trump signed the agreement with the firm for five hundred million dollar investment days before, uh, Trump's January twenty twenty-five inauguration. We did a chip deal with them. He r- he recently said he, he found out nobody cared about his international business activity while in office. You know what? We do care. You, you know, this is a guy, as I say, accusation is a confession, who went on and on about Hunter. Hunter Biden didn't have enough imagination as doing corrupt things and didn't have much pull. This is a, a full-scale...... corrupt regime that is using their status, uh, to, to, to, to feather their nest. It's also bad for national security. Um, all manner of things i- i- is hurtful to the United States. Uh, you know, he does it all the time, whether he's suing the IRS for ten billion or closing the Kennedy Center 'cause he ran that into the ground. But this is really-- You know, he does-- That's all ha- uh, you know, jazz hands compared to what's happening here. Thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, the Republicans thought it was an impeachable offense or required a special counsel because, uh, President Biden, implicitly or explicitly, used his influence such that his son, Hunter Biden, could get on the board of a Ukrainian energy company and made about four or six hundred grand. There is no reason why Hunter Biden should be on the board of any company other than his proximity to the President-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SGScott Galloway
... even if he leveraged that contact or didn't, and there's no evidence he did. But everyone's hair was on fire, and now [chuckles] we have an individual who is raking in billions. And it's not only him, Witkoff's kids! And Witkoff was investing-- getting people, the UAE, to invest in a, a, a crypto company that his kids control. And then what do you know? A few weeks later, the sale of our most sensitive chips that are a security concern for fear that the UAE, who has a strong relationship with China, begins to leak that sensitive information that powers nuclear guidance systems, power submarines. I mean, the level-- I, I got to give it to him, they're like, "Here's the problem. In America, if you run a stop sign, you get shamed. I- if you, if you start killing hundreds of people, there's some sort of weird leadership quality around it." It's, it's like, "Don't commit a-- For God's sakes, don't commit a misdemeanor."
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
"Commit, c- you know, commit mass murder-
- KSKara Swisher
Right
- SGScott Galloway
... and be unashamed about it, and then the next day, commit another crime where it all gets lost in the noise."
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Well, that's what he said. Found out nobody cared, especially internationally. But, y- you know, and then killing all those people through USAID, the millions of people who will die. I mean, the kind of damage and, and, and feathering, nest feathering is really quite astonishing. And that leaves out all the pardons he gives to people who are, who's-- Who knows? I mean-
- SGScott Galloway
I sat next to one of those guys.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, pardon him.
- SGScott Galloway
Gives him three million bucks? Uh, I've said this before, Kara, if, if Louis or Alex or Alec or Nolan, our four sons, I'll, I'll do, uh, go with the older ones. If one of them fucked up and ended up in prison, I'm a hundred percent confident that with a million to three million bucks, we could get him out of prison.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Find, find an indirect route into a meeting with one of Trump and his acolytes and say, "I'm about to buy one to three million dollars in Trump coin," or, "I'm about to give you a two million dollar gift for the new East Wing," and I think within three to six months, they're out.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
That's where we are.
- KSKara Swisher
It's really-
- SGScott Galloway
And here's the thing, it creates... You're going to have more Epstein Islands.
- KSKara Swisher
Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
You're going to have fewer small businesses that fe-- start because they're worried about the rule of law. You know, the rich are protected by the law, but not bound by it.
- KSKara Swisher
Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
All the rest of us are bound by the law, but not protected by it.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And in addition, foreign companies aren't going to want to invest in American companies-
- KSKara Swisher
Yep
- SGScott Galloway
... for fear that the rule of law is not going to apply to-
- KSKara Swisher
That is exactly right
- SGScott Galloway
-American investments.
- KSKara Swisher
He is-- It's all going to be for the Trumps' benefit, but not for the United States of America. That's really-- You have to understand this, everybody. This is, this is the actual game. Besides all the, everything else, [chuckles] this is the actual game. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. [music] Support for today's show comes from Upwork. One of the biggest growth hacks is realizing you don't have to do it all by yourself. Upwork makes it easy to bring in the right freelancer when you need them, so you can stay focused on what you do best. Upwork is a one-stop platform to find, hire, and pay expert freelancers across the web in software development, data and analytics, marketing, business operations, and more. They help grow your business by giving you fast access to specialized talent across a hundred and twenty-five plus categories, so you can fill skill gaps, launch projects faster, and scale up support or down without committing to a full-time headcount. You can browse profiles, review past work, and get help scoping the role, so you can hire with confidence and get started quickly. And with Business Plus, you can access the top one percent of talent on Upwork, and with AI-powered shortlisting, you'll get matched to the right freelancer in under six hours. No endless searching required. You can visit upwork.com right now to post your job for free and connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com, upwork.com. [music]
- 48:21 – 1:01:20
Wins and Fails
- KSKara Swisher
Okay, Scott, wins and fails. You want me to go first?
- SGScott Galloway
You go first.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, I was going to do the Kennedy Center, but I don't really like the Kennedy Center. I never did, but he's, he's going to close it and fix it after he ran it into the ground with his stupid minion, uh, Rick Carnell. Nobody wanted to go there, um, you know, whatever. He just, he's failed the business, and so he's closing it down. It's like Trump's steak or something. I don't know if he can close it down. We'll see, but, um, just gross. That's just a gross sidelight of the, the many things he's done. Um, and, uh, we'll see. We'll see what happens there. But actually, you know, I want to get more serious. Congresswoman, uh, Kelly Morrison of Minnesota posted the following on, uh, on, uh, Blue Sky: "My office has been flooded with reports of cruel, unsafe, unlawful conditions inside the Whipple Detention Facility in Minneapolis. This weekend, I was finally granted access to perform oversight." And when she went in, it's grotesque. I mean, i- it's absolutely grotesque of how they're... They're not just abusing these populations, and they're about to go do that in Ohio, but they are, um, they're, they're abusing them once they get in there, to, in order to get them to self-deport. Um, the cruelty, uh, these-- Let me just tell you, all you people, people will-- you will-... You will be judged someday. Maybe not today, but someday, you will-- this will all come out, and what you've done here is so heinous, uh, to young people. The young, the young kid with that adorable hat did get out, uh, finally, but it was only under pressure to get him out, um, who was taken in Minnesota and brought, I think, to Texas. Um, but there's-- He's just one kid, and the only reason he got out is so much of the attention because of that photograph. But there's other kids sitting there, thousands and thousands of children, and, uh, what you have done is so shameful, um, and so horrible. And I just hope there's more photographs and more for people to understand the level of depravity, um, in what they're doing to those people, um, who are here, most of whom are here, worked hard, have contributed to our country. Um, and, uh, it's just-- it makes me sick to my stomach. Um, for a positive thing, uh, I really enjoyed the Grammys. I did. I watched them last night. I thought they were really fun.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, did you enjoy it?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I did. It was fun. Although President Trump is threatening to sue Trevor Noah over his Epstein joke, uh, at the Grammys. I thought he was great. Trevor Noah was great. I found it very entertaining. I thought the performances were terrific. I thought Justin Bieber was-- did a great... I mean, he was sort of naked. He was-- He looks good. Um, he was wearing silk boxers only, and I thought that was quite beautiful. I thought Lady Gaga was amazing. Reba McEntire performed, and I love Reba McEntire, so I liked it. It felt really good, and it wasn't virtue signaling the way the Oscars can be. I found the speeches very heartfelt and, um, simple. They kept it simple. They-- A lot of God-loving, too, by the way, uh, but I liked it. I really enjoyed it. I thought it was great.
- SGScott Galloway
I stopped caring about the Grammys-
- KSKara Swisher
I know
- SGScott Galloway
... when Michael Stipe stopped singing and opened a [chuckles] health food store in Athens, Georgia. Rich Ocasek died, and George Michael died. I have no interest in... And Tom Petty died from an opioid overdose. Music is dead to me.
- KSKara Swisher
Sabrina Carpenter didn't get anything, but, uh, and I thought she was delightful also, by the way. Anyway, go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, uh, I'll start with my loss or fail. I interviewed Niall Ferguson, who I really like and is a friend, but he has a narrative which I disagree with, and it's a narrative that's been adopted by the Trump administration, and also, and I would argue, it's just parroting a Russian talking point, and that is this, this notion that this war is unsustainable for Ukraine, it's unwinnable, and they should strike the best deal they can right now. And that is the same narrative that was expectorated and vomited all over the media three years ago. And guess what? Since then, in the last two years, Russia has only increased their occupancy or their, uh, acquisition of land by one percent. A snail could literally, and this is true, move faster than the Russian army. And if you want to talk about unsustainable for somebody, this is unsustainable for Russia. And there are days where they are losing a thousand men a day. Their wartime economy is running out of money. So this war is unsustainable, but it's unsustainable for Russia. And this narrative that somehow that Ukraine has been backed into a corner and needs to come up or swallow hard and accept a peace deal that is just scheduling the next war, not preventing it, is bullshit. This war is unsustainable, but it's unsustainable for Russia as long as the West continues to support pushback on a murderous autocrat. And it really bothers me, this narrative of, "Well, Ukraine should just take the deal they can right now because this war is unsustainable." Bullshit! They have been kicking Russia in the nuts, literally and figuratively, and they are, in my view, they are winning this war. And so this narrative from straight out of Sergey Lavrov, that it's unsustainable, it's unsustainable for Ukraine, they can't manage this. Well, guess what, folks? They seem to have put all that to rest, all those doubts for the last three and a half years. This is unsustainable for Russia, and we should start speaking as if the Ukrainian army is speaking from a position of strength, which they are.
- KSKara Swisher
I love it-
- SGScott Galloway
Anyways
- KSKara Swisher
... Scott. I know you like Niall Ferguson. I find him to be a contrarian for contrarian's sake, and I like your contrarianism better.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but Niall, Niall brings history, and it's important to have this type of dialogue. And he and I, again, agree on almost nothing geopolitically, but I learn from him, and quite frankly, it, it, it strengthens and creates texture around my beliefs, and I think that's important. And plus, he's a huge, he's a huge-- We both are really upset about the, the, the World Cup, um, draw for Scotland. We're in the same group as Morocco and Brazil. Anyways, both he and I love Team Scotland. Anyway, my win-
- KSKara Swisher
[chuckles]
- SGScott Galloway
... because I'm canceling Paramount Plus today, [chuckles] I watched all episodes of Landman.
- KSKara Swisher
Uh-huh.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, my God!
- KSKara Swisher
It's good.
- SGScott Galloway
I think I'm Republican now.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughing]
- SGScott Galloway
It's, it's, he's literally, whoever that guy is, he's Rupert Murdoch of entertainment. He's like: All this fucking liberal, crazy bullshit-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh
- SGScott Galloway
... with all this redistribution of virtue-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... on, on primetime streaming programs, I am the Fox News of scripted entertainment.
- KSKara Swisher
You know what?
- SGScott Galloway
And it is-
- KSKara Swisher
He's much more complex than that, but, uh, go ahead. He's not, actually. [chuckles]
- SGScott Galloway
I don't think so. I think basically-
Episode duration: 1:01:20
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