EVERY SPOKEN WORD
120 min read · 24,244 words- 0:00 – 4:28
Intro
- SGScott Galloway
I just can't wait till I'm single again-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... and I dress up for Halloween. I'm gonna dress up as Southwest Airlines and (beep) a bunch of people.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) Okay. (instrumental music plays) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. Happy belated St. Patrick's Day, Scott Galloway, even though you're Scottish.
- SGScott Galloway
So I went out and got fucked up, went into the Euro, and the guy next to me says, "Wow." He said, "Circumcised?" I'm like, "Nope. That's just the wear and tear."
- KSKara Swisher
Oh my God. (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs) So I got back last night, uh, from Mexico. I went to a wonderful wedding, and it was-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. How was it?
- SGScott Galloway
It was lovely. It was a mix of really meaningful, they're both really lovely people and lovely friends, everyone was very happy, and of course fabulous. It was, like, a beautiful setting, beautiful people. We had a really nice time. Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, nice. Good.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, it was great. Okay.
- KSKara Swisher
Anything exciting happen? Did you, did you, you know, do anything embarrassing for the, for the team here?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, come on.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs) That's-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
Scott Galloway and doing things embarrassing, that's redundant. I think that's part of the reason people invite me, though.
- KSKara Swisher
(sighs) Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, you know what the best gift is? I'm being very serious.
- KSKara Swisher
What? Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
The best gift, the best gift you can give anyone for their wedding, in my view, is to get a little too fucked up and have an amazing time.
- KSKara Swisher
Good.
- SGScott Galloway
And I do both those things.
- KSKara Swisher
Did you do a toast?
- SGScott Galloway
Uh... No, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not in the A circle.
- KSKara Swisher
No, okay.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm, I'm, I'm what, I'm-
- KSKara Swisher
What are you, like, D list?
- SGScott Galloway
... on, I don't know if this says anything, but on my wedding invitation, it said, "Seat filler."
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. (laughs)
- 4:28 – 15:00
Democrats Cave
- KSKara Swisher
cracks are showing in the Democratic Party after 10 Senate Democrats voted with Republicans to avoid government shutdown this past week. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer infuriated fellow party members by crossing the aisle to pass the president, uh, President Trump's approved stopgap measure. Prominent Dems, such as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, wanted to force a shutdown to protest Trump and Elon Musk's federal spending cuts. Schumer defended his decision, uh, to Lulu Garcia-Navarro of the New York Times on Sunday. Here's what he said.
- NANarrator
Let me explain. A shutdown would shut down all government agencies, and it would solely be up to Trump and Doze and Musk what to open again, because they could determine what was essential. So their goal of shutting down, of decimating the whole federal government, of cutting agency after agency after agency, would occur under a shutdown. It would be devastating. Two days from now, on a shutdown, they could say, "Well, SNAP, food stamps for kids is not essential. It's gone. All veterans' offices in rural areas are gone. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, they're not essential. We're cutting them back."
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, that is his excuse, although how did you get in the fucking situation, Chuck? That's one of the things I would say. Um, he's not really a terrific leader. At the same time, he has a point. I- at the same time, they're cutting down the government. They are anyway, slowly. This is a quicker way to do it. So talk about this lesser of two evils thing. I've been talking to both, uh, you know... I think the, the, the Republicans got them in a jam, is what they did. Um, there's rumors that Democrats are urging AOC to primary Schumer. Uh, uh, so talk a little bit about this, because neither, uh, I, I think it's two choices of despair, were one of the-... Democrats talking about it. Um, and there's a real shift of, like, "Let them shut it down then, and let's see what people think." And then there are others who, "Oh, no, they're gonna shut it down," trying to protect all your marbles. So, any thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
There's always a good excuse for failure.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
How, how did the Democratic leadership put us in a position of bad choices between bad choices?
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And shutting down the government? I mean, it re- there's always... Senate Leader Schumer or Minority Leader Schumer always has a good excuse for failure.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, he does.
- SGScott Galloway
And, um, you know, shutting down the government, yeah. Uh, what does that mean? Shutting down what is now an operating system for bypassing the courts and byca- bypassing Congress? Uh, at some point, we have to be the party not fucking around, not the reasonable party that's thoughtful and always is on the wrong end of every strategic move. We, we absolutely, in my view, should have said fine. Um, Republican states, Republicans need to see that if you... if the government is now an operating system for, for your march towards autocracy, we're not down and we're shutting down the government. I don't believe Democrats would have got the blame here. I think if 58 days post, whatever it is, inauguration, the, the government is shut down, uh, I think it... the majority of it would have stuck to Trump. I think that a lot of Republicans, uh, who voted for Trump would have, uh, been hurt and seen that, "Okay, this is what you voted for?" And there's also, it's not binary. There was a mid-step. If they had been more coordinated, they could have probably run an effective filibuster and at least gotten some of the things they wanted. Instead, they have pa- passed a spending deal which essentially gives Doge and Trump carte blanche to continue to do what they're doing. So this is, uh... I believe that AOC is going to be the junior senator from New York in 2028. I think Senator Schumer has consistently been played by the other side. I think he is a weak leader, and I think he embodies, uh, the absolute definition of what it means to be a Democrat or the Democratic Party right now, and that is they have, have not discerned the difference between being right and being effective.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
This was-
- KSKara Swisher
Which we talked about. I mean, though Fetterman was also on the side, "We don't shut the government down." Uh, now, Ted Cruz tried to do this with Obamacare. Remember, he pushed that shutdown, and I know the Republicans suffered for it. In a s- in a similar jam, D- the Republicans were in a jam for years, right? They had this kind of situation.
- SGScott Galloway
But Obamacare was popular. People wanted Obamacare.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
People don't want this.
- KSKara Swisher
Right, right. Well, that's the, that's the argument is that whoever initiates the shutdown is the... holds the bag of shit, essentially.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but they're... Okay, they're, they're in control.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
So (laughs) uh, I just, I, I don't believe that-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, I think Obama was in control then too, I believe.
- SGScott Galloway
I don't think they would... I don't think that... The way this is going, they're essentially trying to shut down the government slowly and pick which parts of government they want to shut down. So, I think you could absolutely say, well, "I'm sorry, who's shutting down government? They're the ones firing everyone with any- without any sort of, uh, congressional oversight. They're the ones who have decided, okay, they're gonna... They're not gonna make..." Uh, this isn't about efficiency or an audit. This is about political decisions with no constitutional oversight. And most frightening, I know we're gonna talk about this, they've now decided that the other branch of government that all of us were hoping would be the backstop, the courts, they're, they're basically ignoring court orders. So, okay, if the government is now an op- an operating system and a purse for a move towards autocracy, sorry, we're, we're just gonna shut it down.
- KSKara Swisher
I think we were right when we said that in, uh, Austin. Like, let them do it, let them... let, let the chips fall though where they may. And I don't think they have a choice, because this is gonna be a playbook for the Republicans the whole time. Like, put them in a jam, put them in a jam, put them... and use Elon Musk as the boogeyman. Well, let him be a boogeyman then, right? Just let him. Let him look ridiculous, rich, over-privileged, cutting people. And yes, they can cut all this stuff. And I get that there's, there's... It's just, when you're always playing defense and, and you're always trying to catch all the balls and stop all the eruptions, you are the loser in that game, 'cause they can just... They're, they're cam- they're acting like they're in, in the minority in a weird way, even though they're in the majority, right? They're doing the bomb throwing, the blowing things up, everything else, which is really interesting to me.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, I don't... I, I (clears throat) I think that Americans will vote for policies they don't agree on as long as they sense strength and resolve.
- KSKara Swisher
Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
And right now, the Democratic Party appears to lack all of those.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. No, sh-
- SGScott Galloway
So...
- KSKara Swisher
I think AOC has... seems to f- very articulate on this. Like, "Here's what we do." Like, she seems to have a plan, like, in that way, and Schumer's is sort of like, "Well, we don't want them to shut down the government faster." I'm like, "Well, they're doing it slower. What's the fucking difference?" Like, they're gonna do what they're gonna do because... until you win elections. That's pretty much it, right? Correct? I, I don't-
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, Ch- Uh, Senate Minority Leader Schumer perfectly embodies the Democratic Party, weak, feckless, and believing that right is more important than effective.
- 15:00 – 24:09
Market Correction
- KSKara Swisher
closed 10% below recent highs. It's now trailing major markets in Europe and Ch- China, as you've discussed. It's down about 6% s- the inauguration. And Scott, Secretary of Se- uh, uh, treasury Secretary Scott Besson, who sounds like a MAGA now, called the correction healthy. Also, by the way, he has a $22 million house while he was saying, "Just suck it up," to people. Um, there, he thi- he was saying that the aftershocks w- are, are, uh, n- normal for a correction and you need to grin and bear it. That's essentially what Scott Besson said. Um, there's, uh, questions of what it does to the dollar. Um, uh, New York Times pointed out over the weekend that Ny- or that Trump's trade war is leading to regulatory tariffs that specifically target Trump voters. Nearly eight million Americans work in industries targeted by levies and the majority are Trump voters. A New York Times analysis show they include corn, car makers, poultry, steel mills, and more. Con- consumer sentiment hit nearly a two and a half year low in March, inflation's ex- expectations have surged. So, talk about this 'cause this is a huge opportunity e- uh, that the Democrats are not taking in any way.
- SGScott Galloway
Okay, there's the markets and then there's messaging.
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
And the markets, to be fair, if you're, if, if, if you think of, if you try to stay, have fidelity to the data-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... the markets have lost about six months of gains.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
But they're still up for-
- KSKara Swisher
They are.
- SGScott Galloway
... for 12 months. They're still up dramatically.
- KSKara Swisher
For years.
- SGScott Galloway
They're, and they're still quite frankly very expensive, so th- he could be doing everything that all economists agree with and it, the markets just might be letting off some steam from what are what I would call historic overvalued highs, something we've been talking about a long time. And I'm patting myself on the back here, but I said in November of '24 we were gonna see a 15-year reversal in the flows of capital out of the US into Europe and non-US markets. That reversal of the largest river of the world, and that is capital flowing into US growth stocks, that has happened. We are seeing a reversal in capital flows out of the US and this might have been the catalyst for it. But the reality is the stock markets haven't crashed. They've corrected, they have not crashed or they've... Not even corrected, they've just, they've had a bad few months. Unemployment is still pretty low. Inflation has, is being stubborn, but we haven't seen these dramatic upticks in inflation people are, are worried about it. It could still, it could still happen. What is going to... A- a- but the, the talking points here are such a missed opportunity. One, we are gonna continue to fund for $60 billion or 8% of our military budget, uh, a, uh, a, a pushback on a murderous autocracy that is good for democracy. We're gonna continue to support democratic values and the majority of that revenue will return to America, including the majority of which will go to red states. We are going to control the deficit. We are going to look at, uh, no, we're gonna not only n- not only h- not have a tax cut, we're gonna have an alternative minimum tax for the wealthy and corporations. Your tax rates are not going up, but we're gonna make sure everybody just pays what they're supposed to pay and we're gonna get responsible about the deficit. We need a massive leveling up of young people and of the middle class who should, if both people work, should have a reasonable lifestyle. We are going to raise minimum wage to $24, $5 an hour. We are going to build seven million homes.... manufactured homes, which cost 30 to 50% less than a home built on site, and we are gonna bring down the cost of people's housing. We have so many opportunities to say, "We're the party of getting shit done. We're the party..." And at the same time, push back on the notion, "No, we're not gonna give into a murderous autocrat. No, we're going to restore amazing trading relationships with 80-year along the, uh, with a, uh... We're going to maintain 80-year alliances, economic alliances that bring down the cost of everything from tomatoes, to lumber, to cars," and we're proposing these things. And let them go down in Congress. Let them be voted against. Let America say, "Does it make sense to have fantastic trading relationships that will bring down the cost of our products? Well, does it make sense to have corporations and the wealthy at least pay 30% of their profits, which they are not doing right now? Does it make sense to not have an explosion in the deficit?" Instead, we're just running around responding to everything that we think is outrageous, waiting for the rest of the public to get outraged when they're busy just trying to get by with their second and third jobs. So, the messaging here has been terrible. The Democratic Party has shown no leadership other than their shock, their outrage that people are not more outraged. Again, and, uh, this is my call sign here, we need to be the party of ideas, not indignance.
- KSKara Swisher
I was watching him this weekend. I thought he did so badly from a messaging point- speaking of messaging. I thought he looked rich. He looked like Scrooge McDuck. I don't know why. Like a gay Scrooge McDuck. But it was really n- Gay has nothing to do with it. Nonetheless, um, that's what he looked like to me. But, um, w- uh, it was a bad messaging. Like, "Y- you don't have any right to Chinese flat screens, Americans." I'm like, "You don't fucking... It's none of your business what I have a right to." It was so snotty. Um, I thought it, I was, I- I was sort of surprised by that messaging. And I thought he did a bad job on all the programs he, he, he appeared on. Um, he looks like he's a rich guy telling poor people to suck it up. Like, and you'll, you'll, you'll appreciate later once we get through this. But I'm like, "There's no pain for you anywhere along this route, whatsoever." I don't know if that's resonant, but I s- I was offended by him. And I got some money, right? I was like, "Wow, you're really obnoxious," kind of personality. I think Wall Street was quite disturbed by him, because they thought he was sort of the reasonable guy.
- SGScott Galloway
But again, this was him sticking-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... his chin out. But there's no fist of steel-
- KSKara Swisher
That's correct.
- SGScott Galloway
... in the Democratic Party.
- KSKara Swisher
That's correct, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
He said, he said, "America is not about cheaper things."
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
But that was an opportunity to go, for a Democrat to say, "Let's be honest-"
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
"... America is an operating system that has created more prosperity than any-"
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
"... any nation in history."
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
"And prosperity means you get to work hard and you get to live really well. Which quite frankly, Mr. Bissette, that is the reason you are here. And once you're a billionaire, fine, it's easy for you to say you're gonna pay more for a flat screen TV."
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
"But there's a lot of Americans that do, that do expect to be able to send their kids to college-"
- 24:09 – 33:05
VOA Cuts
- KSKara Swisher
we're back. President Trump has placed another round of agency on the chopping block, uh, including the Voice of America, or VOA. It's kind of a screw you to Kathy, Kari Lake, but that's another issue. Uh, I'm perfectly happy with that. The VOA, run by the US Agency for Global Media, broadcasts United States domestic news to hundreds of millions around the world to extend, uh, US influence and to combat authoritarianism. Kari Lake, who Trump, Trump chose to run VOA, uh, she was the one who keeps losing in Arizona, was plant- the l- the, the loud, nasty lady who keeps losing in, in Arizona, was planning to transform the outlet to fight an information war. The cuts made, uh, in an executive order also targeted agencies which address homelessness, fund libraries, and promote economic development for minority and low income communities. So, basically everybody but the rich people. Um-... talk, I don't know if the BOA cut matters. What do you think of this Voice of America cut? No big deal? Big deal?
- SGScott Galloway
Look, (laughs) I believe, I mean what is really, really staggering is there was an analysis done of how many deaths-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... are going to happen this year.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Unnecessary deaths from things like malaria-
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
... uh, hunger, from this cut of $75 billion of USAID, and they're estimating just this year alone, there's gonna be three million deaths. And people say, okay, there's, there's some powerful memes online saying, "What other nation taxes their people and sends money to us?" And the answer is, okay, they, the, the whole point, the, the, one of the basic tenets of a post-World War II America starting with what is arguably the most visionary act in economic political history is we said, "Okay. Germany and Japan treated us really poorly. They were our enemy. But this is what we're gonna do. We're going to, in an act of extraordinary vision and generosity, we're going to pay for the reconstruction of their societies." And overnight, not overnight, over a decade, we turned two formidable, unbelievable cultures that were incredibly formidable enemies into incredible allies, and it has really held the post-World War II peace and prosperity is that these two, the kinda the number two and number three economies (laughs) around the world until China were our allies, and they realized through this act, through this act of generosity, and we recognized that soft power is the hardest power in the world because you don't even know what wars don't break out. You don't even know what individual in an African country with a, a strong anti-American contingent refuses to work with them and cooperate 'cause they think, "You know what? They're actually good people."
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, we need to beat them.
- SGScott Galloway
"Maybe, maybe we don't agree with them. Maybe, maybe they make bad decisions, but at the end of the day, they try to do the right things. They're, they're trying to stop AIDS in our country. They're trying, they're trying to stop hunger. They're willing to send aircraft. They're willing to send people in, put their boots on the ground when they sense there's actual genocide." That soft power for about 1% of our deficit creates margin power and goodwill that affects millions of decisions made every week around whether to help, work with, want to send your best and brightest to this nation. This is like, these are investments in, for lack of a better term, brand building, where people think, "I wanna go to the US. I wanna work with US companies. I don't want to take an American tourist hostage or kill them because they're nice people and their memory is long and their reach is far. Let's not fuck with them. Let's work with them." And so this withdrawal of soft power, uh, when you look at the actual return we have gotten on this soft power, is extraordinary, and something like the Voice of Amer- And I wanna be clear. There's, there, I believe as an educator, the Department of Education should probably be smaller than it is. Universal testing nationally was a good idea. It hasn't worked. The, the 500 people of the 4,000 that work for the Department of Education should probably lose their job. I'm not against reducing the size of government. But when you just start cutting everything, including things that are working really well and making people feel good about America and creating prosperity and margin power, and it's gonna take decades to rebuild once we realize it was a bad idea to do away with it. So Kari Lake, it's fun. Kari Lake is a fucking distraction. That, that's a distraction. The question is should we be spending a little bit of money to have our viewpoints-
- KSKara Swisher
Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
... transmitted in a thoughtful, well-produced way around the world?
- KSKara Swisher
I, I, I think it's w- it's such a good spending of money. And by the way, guess who's running into this space? The Russians and the Chinese, right?
- SGScott Galloway
100%.
- KSKara Swisher
That's the thing. It's the smallest amount of money to spend, one, to keep it away. We have a better story. Like, it's okay, and it, I don't, I, I think Voice of America-
- SGScott Galloway
And we're good at it.
- KSKara Swisher
... and we're good at it.
- SGScott Galloway
We're good at media.
- KSKara Swisher
And by the way, the media's good. It's actually very clear. It's, you know, they're like, "Oh, they're anti-Trump." This is a whole thing, uh, you know, ob- obsessing them, but if you're in... Listen, Kari Lake, who, I'm sorry, is a village idiot, um, he was gonna transform the outlet to fight an information war. Yes, Kari, that's what you need to do, but not in your trumped-up ridiculous way. It's giving people good information about the United States and what we're doing here. It shows we're present. It shows we care. It's like, e- even if it's, uh, it's just very solid inf- I have listened to Voice of America elsewhere. It's, and we also fund things like Radio Free Europe, et cetera. I know there's some things, and I do think about this a lot, that are of a different era and we shouldn't do anymore. Like, sometimes we have to change and things, but this is money well spent, especially when the Chinese and the Russians and other people are putting out all kinds of misinformation around the world, and information about themselves, right? Not just misinformation, but, "Look at us. Look what we're doing," and stuff like that, and I just think it's just the best way to say, uh, you know, "Here's America. We're still here. We still are great." And I just, what a, huh, what a, uh... The only thing that I get pleasure in is she doesn't really have a job, but that's fine. Like, that's just my personal pleasure, but the cuts they're making are so targeted to things that make us better as a nation that it's really, it's, uh, it's just sort of a fend for yourself kinda thing that's happening, which I think is not the picture America has of itself, or maybe they do now.
- SGScott Galloway
Kari Lake is the physical embodiment of AI right now in that is she put herself out of business. I love that she said on a campaign trail as if it was a feature, not a bug, that "I'm going to be the media's worst nightmare."
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
Well, she, okay, she got herself fired.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
She's right. She's the worst, she's the worst thing that happened to media, including the Voice of America, and now she's out of work. I'd-
- KSKara Swisher
She, ugh.
- SGScott Galloway
It's just b- the p-
- KSKara Swisher
And she wanted to bring all her skills as a news c- She was on a local news station, Kari. Sorry. I don't find you to be the top level media thinker of our generation. (laughs) Like...
- SGScott Galloway
Y- you know who's playing, you know who's playing the long game right now?
- KSKara Swisher
Who?
- SGScott Galloway
It's always, it's always, the Gulf.
- 33:05 – 35:51
Trump’s Justice Department Speech
- KSKara Swisher
Trump also visited the Justice Department, speaking of ruining something that had a very good reputation, to give an hour-long speech focused mostly on criticizing those who investigated him. What a tiny minded person he is. Presidents do not typically speak at the Justice Department for a good reason. Here are some of the things Trump said. He proclaimed himself the chief law enforcement officer in our country, which usually is the attorney general. Uh, he also suggested it's illegal for networks to cover him in what he sees as an overly negative light. He said the classified documents case against him was bullshit. When the speech ended, YMCA played and he did his dance. Oh my God. It's, they're, they're... How are we losing to this person? I, uh, this is, uh, marketing, give me a marketing thing here, 'cause obviously this was all such nonsense, he shouldn't have been there. It does, this is a line we should never cross, and he does it constantly back and forth. And again, in an ideal world, what should Democrats be doing in response to this?
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, look, I, I, it, it, there is such a void here of Democratic leadership for someone just to stand up and say, you know, "This is bullshit." More importantly, uh, uh, and I, I know this is gonna drive you crazy, I have literally, I'm about to be indoctrinated into the woke church. I'm about to become an apostle, a cardinal. They are burning white smoke at the ballots, because I am now doing a live podcast with my other side piece, the much... Basically she's you but younger-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... which is what I like to do-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Okay.
- SGScott Galloway
... what I'll do with my third and fourth wife.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay. Yeah. All right.
- SGScott Galloway
I am speaking at the 92nd Street Y-
- KSKara Swisher
(gasps) .
- SGScott Galloway
... and all I can think about, all I can think about-
- KSKara Swisher
Uh-huh.
- SGScott Galloway
... is when they introduce me, standing up and screaming out, "Young man, there's no fee to-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... feel down. I said young man."
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) what, you're-
- SGScott Galloway
I cannot wait.
- KSKara Swisher
... going there with Tarlov? You're doing a Tarlov event?
- SGScott Galloway
Me-
- KSKara Swisher
I have to-
- SGScott Galloway
... and Jessica Tarlov-
- KSKara Swisher
I literally have to-
- SGScott Galloway
... were invited.
- KSKara Swisher
... pull fucking teeth. We have been offered 10 of these, and you've turned them all down. You know that. Like at Aspen, we were offered-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but I'm trying-
- KSKara Swisher
... one in France.
- SGScott Galloway
... to impress the new wife.
- KSKara Swisher
Honestly-
- SGScott Galloway
I'm trying to impress-
- KSKara Swisher
Literally-
- SGScott Galloway
... the new wife.
- 35:51 – 44:23
Southwest Dumps Free Bags
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, we're back, very briefly. Scott, S- Southwest Airlines will soon end its policy allowing free checked bags. Bags fly free has long been what is, Southwest is known for, along with having no assigned seating, which the airline will also eliminate, uh, this year. (laughs) So they're basically United. Um, uh, frequent flyers and f- uh, credit card holders will still be allowed one free bag, and the, but the move has been met with, uh, criticism online. Activists at Metro Elliott Management has been increasing pressure on the airline to raise profits. Obviously it's expensive to do this. Meanwhile, Spirit Airlines is fresh out of bankruptcy, and the CEO said it's ready to take on competitors, we'll take advantage of the time it takes Southwest to find its new footing with the new rules. Uh, brand assessment, isn't, this is what Southwest was actually a good version of a cheap airline, right?
- SGScott Galloway
Until about 10 years ago, Southwest Airlines had a greater market capitalization than the rest of the US industry combined.
- KSKara Swisher
They did.
- SGScott Galloway
And what it, Southwest was able to do was build an amazing brand sort of around freedom. And that was, we don't charge the owners cancellation fees, it's very flexible, you can sort of get up and go. Even being located in the Southwest, we were all about low cost. They always had 737s to try and create operational efficiency. They implemented a great culture that was sort of fun and quirky. And the idea was if things aren't going well for you, you want to take a vacation or quite frankly you want to peace out and move to Vegas-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... Southwest is about freedom. It had this amazing brand.... and when you look at an industry where it is near impossible to establish differentiation-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Think about it, they're all flying to the same place, they're all flying the same goddamn equipment, they're all hiring effectively the same people, how do you maintain any sort of differentiation that creates an industry that is-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... non-commoditized and results in shareholder value? And Southwest was able to do that. And one of the key components of their brand-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... was, "We don't rip you off or nickel and dime you by charging you-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... for bags." And I see this, by the way, I think Elliott are some of the smartest people in investment, disclosure-
- KSKara Swisher
Me too. I know that.
- SGScott Galloway
... I work with them. I like them. They've been very generous with me. I think this is the wrong move. I think this is straight trading off short-term profits and financial engineering to make a quick buck, and then basically lose one of the few, one of the few precious scarce forms of differentiation in an industry that has been totally commoditized.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And so then the question is, if you take away these few things that differentiate Southwest, what is their differentiation?
- KSKara Swisher
Exactly.
- SGScott Galloway
It just, it just becomes a search on Expedia for who has the lowest price.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Who do I go to first? So I see this as a pure example of short-term juicing of profits. The stock will probably go up. It will substantially increase their EBITDA. Elliott will sell their stake, and Southwest further melds into this giant amorphous bubble of all airlines with no differentiation. I, this is, this again is another lesson, branding is like working out. The next day it hurts. It sucks. It requires discipline. But if you're disciplined about it and willing to make the consistent investments in working out, everything gets a little bit easier. You get a little bit stronger. It's easier to go up the stairs. People want to hang out with you. You're less likely to have bouts of depression. Brand building, and this is brand building, the, the free bags, is working out every day. And what they've decided to do is like, "I'm done. I want the profits." I, I, I think this is a bad move. I think this is trading off brand equity for a short-term hit in EBITDA.
- KSKara Swisher
Yep. I would agree with you. I think you're correct on all these things. I just, this is, I, I, I don't know why I would take S-... I used to take Southwest a lot 'cause of these things. Like, it was ch- always cheaper. It was always more flexible. Now I'm like, "Well, if I have to pay, I might as well, like, have the things I like and then collect..." you know. I don't know if you know this, Scott, I'm with Global Services on United now. I am finally.
- SGScott Galloway
I don't even know what that means.
- KSKara Swisher
The top tier. They have a secret room.
- SGScott Galloway
That's a sign that your relationships are struggling and your life sucks.
- KSKara Swisher
I know-
- SGScott Galloway
I used to take
- KSKara Swisher
... but I'm still very happy. I'm very happy, I have to say. I like the separate entrances. Anyway, um, it saves-
- SGScott Galloway
They have separate entrances?
- 44:23 – 58:56
Wins and Fails
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. I shall go first. I shall go first. Let me say a win. I know you were with him this weekend, but Severance is so fucking good. Ben Stiller-
- SGScott Galloway
Really good. Uh, Ben Stiller-
- KSKara Swisher
I love you, Ben Stiller. Let me just say, we th- uh, both Amanda and I... It's so incredibly dense, but also utterly fascinating, and you think about it all week. Y- uh, it is one of those shows. And I gotta say, I was like, I like a lot... I love The Sopranos, I liked, uh, The Bear. This one has me thinking and thinking and thinking about all kinds of issues around identity, everything else. But it's also really gripping at the same (laughs) time, and entertaining.
- SGScott Galloway
Mm-hmm. People love it.
- KSKara Swisher
And, and let me just say, I don't... And I always can say, "Oh, that's gonna happen next." Like, when I watch White Lotus, as much as I like it, I get, I know exactly what's gonna happen, essentially. I don't know what's gonna happen in this fucking thing. And I, I, they're so inventive. I, I, I have to say, Patricia Arquette, they're all good on this show. There's not a person that's not good. The guy who plays Mr. Milchick, he's amazing. Um, but I, I love this show. And Ben, kudos. And it's, like, it's, like, doing incredibly well for Apple. It's like one of the, like, it's grow- the audience is growing week to week. And it's not one of those small audiences that it's like everyone's talking about. It's a big audience for Apple. It's making a ton of money. Kudos. Kudos, kudos, kudos. This is, these are people at the top of their game. I have to say, I think about it all the time. So that is my win. My fail, well obviously Chuck Schumer, because th- by the way, his book tour events were postponed after the backlash. He has a book, new book out called Antisem- Semitism in America: A Warning. That's been postponed, um, for security reasons apparently. But that's not my, my loss. It's, um...
- SGScott Galloway
I heard the original title, Where Are My Testicles?
- KSKara Swisher
I mean, Where Are My Testicles? That's right.
- SGScott Galloway
But they changed it.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, yeah. (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
Anyways.
- KSKara Swisher
Um, I would say this ridiculous... Trump is always doing a, a, a ridiculous thing, and a distracting thing. But his statement, uh, this weekend about, um, Biden's pardons are void and vacant because of the auto pen. There's no power to undo a p- pardon in the Constitution or case law. If he wants to do all his stupid pardons... I'm not a fan of the pardon system by presidents in any way whatsoever. I think they should get three, and that's it, and they can't get paid for it. But get your, just, like, stop with this fucking ridiculousness. You can't... He's, and the way he does it, he goes, uh, "HEREBY DECLARED," in capital letters, "VOID, VACANT, AND NO FURTHER FORCE AND EFFECT 'Cause they were done by the auto pen." Fuck you. Like, honestly c- like, this was even for him, was a ridiculous, stupid thing to do. And, uh, he has a list of stupid things. So, like, look, if we're gonna keep these dumb pardons, just stop acting like d- like... This, this is what occupies your brain? Like, good, maybe, I suppose. So I was really irritated by that for some reason. Anyway, that's my positive and negatives. Severance, fantasticness. Trump, as usual, distraction, distraction, distraction. And it's working, unfortunately.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, we share the same fail. There's always a good excuse for failure.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And the Democratic Party has a total lack of leadership.
- KSKara Swisher
Who do you like in the Democrats? Can I ask you to pick someone? Chris Murphy as being kinda spicy, AOC?
- SGScott Galloway
I think he's been fantastic. I think, um... You know, I wish... I'm a huge fan of, uh, obviously Senators Bennet and Warner. I, I think AOC, I appreciate. I think, uh, um, Representative Crockett.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Is that... Yeah, she's great.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Crockett, Jasmine Crockett, mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, at least they're getting out there, and they're saying shit. Uh, I, my favorites are... I really like Representative Torres. I just love that the, that he comes out with moderate policies, and the, and the far left is cr- just, just does not know how to deal with his, the intersectionality of a Black Latino gay man saying these moderate things. I just love that he's driving everyone crazy. Uh, Governor Wes Moore, who in his State of the Union address said his administration was gonna focus on the struggles of young men.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I thought that was a very brave thing to do in a blue state.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, he's, he's, he's the one the Republicans are nervous about, I can tell you.
- SGScott Galloway
So, what I would say is, anyone who's, anyone who's willing to come out right now and say the Democratic Party lacks leadership, and take an aggressive stand against this slide into autocracy, and I'm, I will give money to you right now for your campaign. I, I just... Uh, we are desperate for someone to go a little bit gangster and have a strong voice here. I think this is... We are the, we are literally the party of eunuchs right now.
- KSKara Swisher
Eunuchs.
- SGScott Galloway
And I just-
- KSKara Swisher
That's a word you don't use very often. I like that word.
- SGScott Galloway
That's my favorite character in, uh, Game of Thrones, is the eunuch. Um, is that my favorite character? That's a tough one. I don't know. The... I like the Prince of Dorne. I like a guy... I like a bis- a bisexual who drinks a lot and kills people. That's pretty... That guy is so fucking hot. By the way, just so you know, people kept asking me why I was dancing around on stage with my shirt off at SXSW. And what they don't realize is that we had to bargain for our SXSW, um, spot. And they said, "Okay."
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, no.
- SGScott Galloway
"But if we come to you and ask you for a favor-"
Episode duration: 58:56
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