Has Dems' Infighting Reached a Breaking Point? | Pivot

Scott Galloway 0:00 I just can't wait till I'm single again-

Kara Swisher 0:01 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 0:01 ... and I dress up for Halloween. I'm gonna dress up as Southwest Airlines and (beep) a bunch of people.

Kara Swisher 0:07 (laughs) Okay. (instrumental music plays) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. Happy belated St. Patrick's Day, Scott Galloway, even though you're Scottish.

Scott Galloway 0:23 So I went out and got fucked up, went into the Euro, and the guy next to me says, "Wow." He said, "Circumcised?" I'm like, "Nope. That's just the wear and tear."

Kara Swisher 0:31 Oh my God. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 0:34 (laughs) So I got back last night, uh, from Mexico. I went to a wonderful wedding, and it was-

Kara Swisher 0:38 Yeah. How was it?

Scott Galloway 0:40 It was lovely. It was a mix of really meaningful, they're both really lovely people and lovely friends, everyone was very happy, and of course fabulous. It was, like, a beautiful setting, beautiful people. We had a really nice time. Yeah.

Kara Swisher 0:52 Oh, nice. Good.

Scott Galloway 0:53 Yeah, it was great. Okay.

Kara Swisher 0:54 Anything exciting happen? Did you, did you, you know, do anything embarrassing for the, for the team here?

Scott Galloway 1:02 Well, come on.

Kara Swisher 1:02 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:03 (laughs) That's-

Kara Swisher 1:03 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:04 Scott Galloway and doing things embarrassing, that's redundant. I think that's part of the reason people invite me, though.

Kara Swisher 1:08 (sighs) Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:08 Um, you know what the best gift is? I'm being very serious.

Kara Swisher 1:11 What? Okay.

Scott Galloway 1:11 The best gift, the best gift you can give anyone for their wedding, in my view, is to get a little too fucked up and have an amazing time.

Kara Swisher 1:18 Good.

Scott Galloway 1:18 And I do both those things.

Kara Swisher 1:19 Did you do a toast?

Scott Galloway 1:21 Uh... No, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not in the A circle.

Kara Swisher 1:24 No, okay.

Scott Galloway 1:25 I'm, I'm, I'm what, I'm-

Kara Swisher 1:26 What are you, like, D list?

Scott Galloway 1:26 ... on, I don't know if this says anything, but on my wedding invitation, it said, "Seat filler."

Kara Swisher 1:30 Yeah. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 1:32 Everybody knows, everybody knows, everybody knows I'll get fucked up-

Kara Swisher 1:36 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:36 ... and be on the dance floor.

Kara Swisher 1:38 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:38 And they know I'll bring some-

Kara Swisher 1:39 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 1:39 And they know I'll bring someone h- and they know I'll bring someone hot, so...

Kara Swisher 1:41 Okay, you did those things-

Scott Galloway 1:43 Yeah, so I'm-

Kara Swisher 1:43 ... with your lovely wife, I assume.

Scott Galloway 1:45 I'm a-

Kara Swisher 1:45 I'm hoping.

Scott Galloway 1:46 I'm a seat filler.

Kara Swisher 1:46 Good.

Scott Galloway 1:47 I'm a seat filler.

Kara Swisher 1:47 Good. I'm glad.

Scott Galloway 1:48 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 1:48 I'm glad you had a good time. Sorry I wasn't there. I was, uh, moving my mom into assisted living, (laughs) which is not quite as glamorous, although-

Scott Galloway 1:54 That sounds close.

Kara Swisher 1:55 ... although it was-

Scott Galloway 1:56 That sounds close.

Kara Swisher 1:56 Uh, it was, it, it's, it was ni- it's a nice place. It's really lovely, and the people are wonderful, and they're in DC. Um, and I have to say, they handle every- there's so much stuff to do, and they handle it well. And let me just tell you something, amazingly, the food at this fucking place is so good, I don't even know what to say. I, like, would go, I would go there every night, the food is so good. Like, the, not a little good. I'm gonna take you there, Scott.

Scott Galloway 2:21 No, you're not. I mean, le- you're gonna take me there in about 20 years. (laughs)

Kara Swisher 2:26 It's a beautiful place. It's one of these high-end ones, and I, literally everyone's like, "The food can't be good." I bring it back to Amanda, and she's like, "That's fucking delicious." It's like, I wanna eat there, it's, like, so good. So anyway, I was pretty pleased with that.

Scott Galloway 2:38 Let me just give everyone-

Kara Swisher 2:40 Ah, mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 2:40 ... a quick fly-on-the-wall excerpt from my weekend versus your weekend. "Well, what the fuck? We're in Tulum. Sure, I'll do X."

Kara Swisher 2:48 (laughs) Okay.

Scott Galloway 2:48 That was me.

Kara Swisher 2:49 Okay.

Scott Galloway 2:49 And then an excerpt from your weekend, "You've always been a disappointment to me."

Kara Swisher 2:53 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 2:54 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 2:54 Actually, it's going better than I thought.

Scott Galloway 2:56 Yeah, yeah.

Kara Swisher 2:56 I ordered my mom the New York Times and the New York Post to, to be delivered here, so that's a good sign. So she can have her daily intake of crap and good news, good, well-done news. Um, but anyway, it w- she has a beautiful place. It wor- it worked out as best as it could, and we brought her to the house for dinner. And it's working, it's-

Scott Galloway 3:14 I'm glad it went well. That's nice.

Kara Swisher 3:14 ... it, it went s- It's gonna be a lot for Kara Swisher. Uh, this is the third try for lucky, and it's gonna stick. Let me just tell you, it's gonna stick. Um, anyway, uh, otherwise, I was moving into my house too. So it's been a really glamorous me unpacking boxes.

Scott Galloway 3:28 You got a lot going on.

Kara Swisher 3:30 I do. I just would, t- this morning, I was like, "Oh, I dropped Claire off, then went and got candy cakes for my mom." Do you know those peanut butter things from Tastykake? Got those, and-

Scott Galloway 3:39 I don't.

Kara Swisher 3:40 ... bought her her ser- I bought a series, um, in- like, National Enquirer. She likes People, National Enquirer, In Touch. I was embarrassed at the Giant Food to buy those things, but I did. Uh, and then visited her, and then came here. Anyway.

Scott Galloway 3:53 Well, you know what's 30 feet long and smells like piss?

Kara Swisher 3:55 What?

Scott Galloway 3:56 The line dance at a senior center.

Kara Swisher 3:58 Oh my God, that's terrible. That's ter-

Scott Galloway 3:59 (laughs)

Kara Swisher 3:59 Don't... You know what, Scott?

Scott Galloway 4:01 That's not good.

Kara Swisher 4:01 It's coming for all of us.

Scott Galloway 4:02 That's not good.

Kara Swisher 4:02 Let's just say.

Scott Galloway 4:03 That's not good.

Kara Swisher 4:03 It's coming, diapers, Depends be coming for you someday.

Scott Galloway 4:07 We, we come into and leave this world in diapers.

Kara Swisher 4:09 It's true. It's true. Anyway-

Scott Galloway 4:11 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 4:11 ... anyhow, it's going really well, and I think she's having a, a relatively good time, for her. Anyway, uh, we got a lot to talk about today, uh, the economy, uh, as the S&P tries to recover from correction territory, whatever that means, as well as the effects of the latest round of Trump's executive orders. But first, as you noted, big

Kara Swisher 4:28 cracks are showing in the Democratic Party after 10 Senate Democrats voted with Republicans to avoid government shutdown this past week. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer infuriated fellow party members by crossing the aisle to pass the president, uh, President Trump's approved stopgap measure. Prominent Dems, such as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, wanted to force a shutdown to protest Trump and Elon Musk's federal spending cuts. Schumer defended his decision, uh, to Lulu Garcia-Navarro of the New York Times on Sunday. Here's what he said.

Narrator 4:54 Let me explain. A shutdown would shut down all government agencies, and it would solely be up to Trump and Doze and Musk what to open again, because they could determine what was essential. So their goal of shutting down, of decimating the whole federal government, of cutting agency after agency after agency, would occur under a shutdown. It would be devastating. Two days from now, on a shutdown, they could say, "Well, SNAP, food stamps for kids is not essential. It's gone. All veterans' offices in rural areas are gone. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, they're not essential. We're cutting them back."

Kara Swisher 5:34 Uh, that is his excuse, although how did you get in the fucking situation, Chuck? That's one of the things I would say. Um, he's not really a terrific leader. At the same time, he has a point. I- at the same time, they're cutting down the government. They are anyway, slowly. This is a quicker way to do it. So talk about this lesser of two evils thing. I've been talking to both, uh, you know... I think the, the, the Republicans got them in a jam, is what they did. Um, there's rumors that Democrats are urging AOC to primary Schumer. Uh, uh, so talk a little bit about this, because neither, uh, I, I think it's two choices of despair, were one of the-... Democrats talking about it. Um, and there's a real shift of, like, "Let them shut it down then, and let's see what people think." And then there are others who, "Oh, no, they're gonna shut it down," trying to protect all your marbles. So, any thoughts?

Scott Galloway 6:23 There's always a good excuse for failure.

Kara Swisher 6:25 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 6:26 How, how did the Democratic leadership put us in a position of bad choices between bad choices?

Kara Swisher 6:32 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 6:33 And shutting down the government? I mean, it re- there's always... Senate Leader Schumer or Minority Leader Schumer always has a good excuse for failure.

Kara Swisher 6:42 Yeah, he does.

Scott Galloway 6:44 And, um, you know, shutting down the government, yeah. Uh, what does that mean? Shutting down what is now an operating system for bypassing the courts and byca- bypassing Congress? Uh, at some point, we have to be the party not fucking around, not the reasonable party that's thoughtful and always is on the wrong end of every strategic move. We, we absolutely, in my view, should have said fine. Um, Republican states, Republicans need to see that if you... if the government is now an operating system for, for your march towards autocracy, we're not down and we're shutting down the government. I don't believe Democrats would have got the blame here. I think if 58 days post, whatever it is, inauguration, the, the government is shut down, uh, I think it... the majority of it would have stuck to Trump. I think that a lot of Republicans, uh, who voted for Trump would have, uh, been hurt and seen that, "Okay, this is what you voted for?" And there's also, it's not binary. There was a mid-step. If they had been more coordinated, they could have probably run an effective filibuster and at least gotten some of the things they wanted. Instead, they have pa- passed a spending deal which essentially gives Doge and Trump carte blanche to continue to do what they're doing. So this is, uh... I believe that AOC is going to be the junior senator from New York in 2028. I think Senator Schumer has consistently been played by the other side. I think he is a weak leader, and I think he embodies, uh, the absolute definition of what it means to be a Democrat or the Democratic Party right now, and that is they have, have not discerned the difference between being right and being effective.

Kara Swisher 8:18 Right.

Scott Galloway 8:18 This was-

Kara Swisher 8:18 Which we talked about. I mean, though Fetterman was also on the side, "We don't shut the government down." Uh, now, Ted Cruz tried to do this with Obamacare. Remember, he pushed that shutdown, and I know the Republicans suffered for it. In a s- in a similar jam, D- the Republicans were in a jam for years, right? They had this kind of situation.

Scott Galloway 8:36 But Obamacare was popular. People wanted Obamacare.

Kara Swisher 8:38 Right.

Scott Galloway 8:38 People don't want this.

Kara Swisher 8:39 Right, right. Well, that's the, that's the argument is that whoever initiates the shutdown is the... holds the bag of shit, essentially.

Scott Galloway 8:49 Yeah, but they're... Okay, they're, they're in control.

Kara Swisher 8:54 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 8:54 So (laughs) uh, I just, I, I don't believe that-

Kara Swisher 8:57 Well, I think Obama was in control then too, I believe.

Scott Galloway 8:59 I don't think they would... I don't think that... The way this is going, they're essentially trying to shut down the government slowly and pick which parts of government they want to shut down. So, I think you could absolutely say, well, "I'm sorry, who's shutting down government? They're the ones firing everyone with any- without any sort of, uh, congressional oversight. They're the ones who have decided, okay, they're gonna... They're not gonna make..." Uh, this isn't about efficiency or an audit. This is about political decisions with no constitutional oversight. And most frightening, I know we're gonna talk about this, they've now decided that the other branch of government that all of us were hoping would be the backstop, the courts, they're, they're basically ignoring court orders. So, okay, if the government is now an op- an operating system and a purse for a move towards autocracy, sorry, we're, we're just gonna shut it down.

Kara Swisher 9:50 I think we were right when we said that in, uh, Austin. Like, let them do it, let them... let, let the chips fall though where they may. And I don't think they have a choice, because this is gonna be a playbook for the Republicans the whole time. Like, put them in a jam, put them in a jam, put them... and use Elon Musk as the boogeyman. Well, let him be a boogeyman then, right? Just let him. Let him look ridiculous, rich, over-privileged, cutting people. And yes, they can cut all this stuff. And I get that there's, there's... It's just, when you're always playing defense and, and you're always trying to catch all the balls and stop all the eruptions, you are the loser in that game, 'cause they can just... They're, they're cam- they're acting like they're in, in the minority in a weird way, even though they're in the majority, right? They're doing the bomb throwing, the blowing things up, everything else, which is really interesting to me.

Scott Galloway 10:42 Yeah, I don't... I, I (clears throat) I think that Americans will vote for policies they don't agree on as long as they sense strength and resolve.

Kara Swisher 10:51 Yep.

Scott Galloway 10:51 And right now, the Democratic Party appears to lack all of those.

Kara Swisher 10:54 Yeah. No, sh-

Scott Galloway 10:55 So...

Kara Swisher 10:55 I think AOC has... seems to f- very articulate on this. Like, "Here's what we do." Like, she seems to have a plan, like, in that way, and Schumer's is sort of like, "Well, we don't want them to shut down the government faster." I'm like, "Well, they're doing it slower. What's the fucking difference?" Like, they're gonna do what they're gonna do because... until you win elections. That's pretty much it, right? Correct? I, I don't-

Scott Galloway 11:17 Uh, Ch- Uh, Senate Minority Leader Schumer perfectly embodies the Democratic Party, weak, feckless, and believing that right is more important than effective.

Kara Swisher 11:25 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 11:25 It just... He's, he's a... he's a terrible leader-

Kara Swisher 11:28 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 11:29 ... and he embodies everything that's bad about the Democratic Party-

Kara Swisher 11:32 Yeah, they gotta go.

Scott Galloway 11:33 Like a series, a series of mealy-mouthed, um, weak, "This is why I'm doing this." I listened to that New York Times interview. Jesus Christ, you want to talk about a weak leader? Listen to the constant excuses-

Kara Swisher 11:46 I agree.

Scott Galloway 11:47 ... and, and just incredible denial. "We're winning."

Kara Swisher 11:49 "What, what are we gonna do?"

Scott Galloway 11:50 "Our message, our message is getting out there-"

Kara Swisher 11:53 It's not. No, no.

Scott Galloway 11:53 "... and it's resonating with people." And it's like, "Are you drunk-"

Kara Swisher 11:56 No.

Scott Galloway 11:57 "... stupid, or both?"

Kara Swisher 11:58 Correct. That's correct.

Scott Galloway 11:59 Uh, this is... The, and the, well, the sad part about it is this is like watching Steve Young sit on the bench. If Joe Montana had been... I don't know, I can't name a bad quarterback. We have fanta- we have a fantastic bench here. We have Richie Torres. I don't agree with-

Kara Swisher 12:15 Hakeem-

Scott Galloway 12:15 ... his politics, but I don't disagree with him.

Kara Swisher 12:16 Jeffries kind of dissed Schumer, which was interesting. He was trying to get something going in the House on this topic-

Scott Galloway 12:21 Well-

Kara Swisher 12:21 ... and vote it again.

Scott Galloway 12:22 And then why doesn't he?

Kara Swisher 12:23 Right.

Scott Galloway 12:24 And I know we all want to like Hakeem-

Kara Swisher 12:25 Right.

Scott Galloway 12:26 ... but quite frankly, he...... y- for him to sit in the back and just act sullen-

Kara Swisher 12:31 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 12:32 ... that doesn't add, do us any fucking good.

Kara Swisher 12:33 Well, he did hold those group, that group together to vote against it. It's just that all the Republicans stayed together. They weren't expecting the Republicans. It was only one-

Scott Galloway 12:41 Fair point.

Kara Swisher 12:41 ... no vote. So, he did hold-

Scott Galloway 12:43 Fair point.

Kara Swisher 12:43 ... those guys together, right? They, there could have been some peel-offs among the Trump, uh, areas, you know, the people that are in those mixed, those mixed, uh, areas. Uh, but he held them all together and Toomer did not. And obviously worked behind the scenes to get 10 people to do what he wanted them to do, which, ugh-

Scott Galloway 13:01 In every-

Kara Swisher 13:02 ... they're all old-

Scott Galloway 13:02 In every war-

Kara Swisher 13:03 ... I bet.

Scott Galloway 13:03 In every war there is a non-violence movement. We should practice non-violence. And it's like, well, okay, good luck with that.

Kara Swisher 13:11 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 13:11 (laughs) I understand it in theory, but good luck with that.

Kara Swisher 13:13 Let them do it-

Scott Galloway 13:14 I feel like-

Kara Swisher 13:14 ... and then let the media write about it and let people freak the fuck out and move the story back to Trump cutting government in half, right?

Scott Galloway 13:21 That's right.

Kara Swisher 13:21 That's what I say. So let's get to polls. It's interesting, um, this is on the economy, but there's, there's larger polls here 'cause I th- do think there's real opportunity. Th- now this new NBC poll shows that while Trump has his best approval rating ever, the majority of voters disapprove of how he's handled the economy so far. There's so much weakness there. Um, we'll talk about the market collection, but I'm gonna read from Kristen Soltis Andersen, who I really do trust. She's a conservative pollster. Um, and she said that everything's mixed all over the place, and, um, uh, you know, he thinks he has a mandate, uh, y- he thinks he can do what all this stuff 'cause he believes he has the latitude to go big and bold, to create some turbulence and cause some prices to rise and then charge 'em as he asserts himself. But as I dug into Mr. Trump's polling data, it looked increasingly that American voters' mandate to the president was more narrow than he sees it after a prolonged period of inflation with a Biden administration that told Americans not to believe their lying wallets, voters clearly wanted the next president to stabilize the economy and make their cost of living more manageable. And so she's putting out that this is a very big opportunity, uh, for Democrats, you know what I mean? That they don't think what he's doing is great. Um, but this is a dangerous gamble. If Mr. Trump's agenda is carried out almost exclusively through executive power and public opinion, gives government control back to his opponents. Um, the Affordable Care Act proved too difficult for Republicans to uproot because it is enshrined be- law by Congress and many in, many, uh, support it, while Mr. Trump's actions are products of pen and phone alone. Um, so the number one issue of America remains the number one issue and their real political risk to this tragedy, they asked voters to grin and bear it at the checkout line today for a promise of something better tomorrow. That's what they're doing, the Trump administration. The S&P

Kara Swisher 15:00 closed 10% below recent highs. It's now trailing major markets in Europe and Ch- China, as you've discussed. It's down about 6% s- the inauguration. And Scott, Secretary of Se- uh, uh, treasury Secretary Scott Besson, who sounds like a MAGA now, called the correction healthy. Also, by the way, he has a $22 million house while he was saying, "Just suck it up," to people. Um, there, he thi- he was saying that the aftershocks w- are, are, uh, n- normal for a correction and you need to grin and bear it. That's essentially what Scott Besson said. Um, there's, uh, questions of what it does to the dollar. Um, uh, New York Times pointed out over the weekend that Ny- or that Trump's trade war is leading to regulatory tariffs that specifically target Trump voters. Nearly eight million Americans work in industries targeted by levies and the majority are Trump voters. A New York Times analysis show they include corn, car makers, poultry, steel mills, and more. Con- consumer sentiment hit nearly a two and a half year low in March, inflation's ex- expectations have surged. So, talk about this 'cause this is a huge opportunity e- uh, that the Democrats are not taking in any way.

Scott Galloway 16:04 Okay, there's the markets and then there's messaging.

Kara Swisher 16:06 Right.

Scott Galloway 16:06 And the markets, to be fair, if you're, if, if, if you think of, if you try to stay, have fidelity to the data-

Kara Swisher 16:13 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 16:14 ... the markets have lost about six months of gains.

Kara Swisher 16:17 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 16:17 But they're still up for-

Kara Swisher 16:18 They are.

Scott Galloway 16:18 ... for 12 months. They're still up dramatically.

Kara Swisher 16:21 For years.

Scott Galloway 16:22 They're, and they're still quite frankly very expensive, so th- he could be doing everything that all economists agree with and it, the markets just might be letting off some steam from what are what I would call historic overvalued highs, something we've been talking about a long time. And I'm patting myself on the back here, but I said in November of '24 we were gonna see a 15-year reversal in the flows of capital out of the US into Europe and non-US markets. That reversal of the largest river of the world, and that is capital flowing into US growth stocks, that has happened. We are seeing a reversal in capital flows out of the US and this might have been the catalyst for it. But the reality is the stock markets haven't crashed. They've corrected, they have not crashed or they've... Not even corrected, they've just, they've had a bad few months. Unemployment is still pretty low. Inflation has, is being stubborn, but we haven't seen these dramatic upticks in inflation people are, are worried about it. It could still, it could still happen. What is going to... A- a- but the, the talking points here are such a missed opportunity. One, we are gonna continue to fund for $60 billion or 8% of our military budget, uh, a, uh, a, a pushback on a murderous autocracy that is good for democracy. We're gonna continue to support democratic values and the majority of that revenue will return to America, including the majority of which will go to red states. We are going to control the deficit. We are going to look at, uh, no, we're gonna not only n- not only h- not have a tax cut, we're gonna have an alternative minimum tax for the wealthy and corporations. Your tax rates are not going up, but we're gonna make sure everybody just pays what they're supposed to pay and we're gonna get responsible about the deficit. We need a massive leveling up of young people and of the middle class who should, if both people work, should have a reasonable lifestyle. We are going to raise minimum wage to $24, $5 an hour. We are going to build seven million homes.... manufactured homes, which cost 30 to 50% less than a home built on site, and we are gonna bring down the cost of people's housing. We have so many opportunities to say, "We're the party of getting shit done. We're the party..." And at the same time, push back on the notion, "No, we're not gonna give into a murderous autocrat. No, we're going to restore amazing trading relationships with 80-year along the, uh, with a, uh... We're going to maintain 80-year alliances, economic alliances that bring down the cost of everything from tomatoes, to lumber, to cars," and we're proposing these things. And let them go down in Congress. Let them be voted against. Let America say, "Does it make sense to have fantastic trading relationships that will bring down the cost of our products? Well, does it make sense to have corporations and the wealthy at least pay 30% of their profits, which they are not doing right now? Does it make sense to not have an explosion in the deficit?" Instead, we're just running around responding to everything that we think is outrageous, waiting for the rest of the public to get outraged when they're busy just trying to get by with their second and third jobs. So, the messaging here has been terrible. The Democratic Party has shown no leadership other than their shock, their outrage that people are not more outraged. Again, and, uh, this is my call sign here, we need to be the party of ideas, not indignance.

Kara Swisher 19:51 I was watching him this weekend. I thought he did so badly from a messaging point- speaking of messaging. I thought he looked rich. He looked like Scrooge McDuck. I don't know why. Like a gay Scrooge McDuck. But it was really n- Gay has nothing to do with it. Nonetheless, um, that's what he looked like to me. But, um, w- uh, it was a bad messaging. Like, "Y- you don't have any right to Chinese flat screens, Americans." I'm like, "You don't fucking... It's none of your business what I have a right to." It was so snotty. Um, I thought it, I was, I- I was sort of surprised by that messaging. And I thought he did a bad job on all the programs he, he, he appeared on. Um, he looks like he's a rich guy telling poor people to suck it up. Like, and you'll, you'll, you'll appreciate later once we get through this. But I'm like, "There's no pain for you anywhere along this route, whatsoever." I don't know if that's resonant, but I s- I was offended by him. And I got some money, right? I was like, "Wow, you're really obnoxious," kind of personality. I think Wall Street was quite disturbed by him, because they thought he was sort of the reasonable guy.

Scott Galloway 20:55 But again, this was him sticking-

Kara Swisher 20:56 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 20:56 ... his chin out. But there's no fist of steel-

Kara Swisher 20:59 That's correct.

Scott Galloway 20:59 ... in the Democratic Party.

Kara Swisher 21:00 That's correct, yeah.

Scott Galloway 21:01 He said, he said, "America is not about cheaper things."

Kara Swisher 21:04 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 21:04 But that was an opportunity to go, for a Democrat to say, "Let's be honest-"

Kara Swisher 21:08 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 21:08 "... America is an operating system that has created more prosperity than any-"

Kara Swisher 21:12 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 21:13 "... any nation in history."

Kara Swisher 21:14 Right.

Scott Galloway 21:14 "And prosperity means you get to work hard and you get to live really well. Which quite frankly, Mr. Bissette, that is the reason you are here. And once you're a billionaire, fine, it's easy for you to say you're gonna pay more for a flat screen TV."

Kara Swisher 21:27 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 21:27 "But there's a lot of Americans that do, that do expect to be able to send their kids to college-"

Kara Swisher 21:32 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 21:32 "... do expect to be able to take a nice vacation, do expect to be able to buy their kids a new pair of Nikes-"

Kara Swisher 21:39 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 21:39 "... that, that makes them feel good about themselves and about America. So yeah, it is about prosperity."

Kara Swisher 21:44 Right.

Scott Galloway 21:44 "What it's also about is an operating system to ensure that the least fortunate among us have a certain level of dignity, 'cause they know-"

Kara Swisher 21:52 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 21:52 "... they are protected in terms of, in terms of right to choose, they know they are protected to ensure that a bus, even if it's funded by the government, will pick them up and take them to a decent school. See above the Department of Education." This was a huge opportunity to weigh in and say, "Boss, regarding prosperity, shut the fuck up."

Kara Swisher 22:10 Shut the fuck up. That's what I, I was like, "Why isn't anyone saying don't just shut the fuck up?" 'Cause I was saying it to the TV screen. I'm like, "Shut the fuck up. None of your business what I want. If I wanna buy plastic toys for my kids till the end of time."

Scott Galloway 22:19 Yeah, easy for you to say-

Kara Swisher 22:20 Exactly.

Scott Galloway 22:20 ... from, from St. Barts-

Kara Swisher 22:22 That's right. Sure.

Scott Galloway 22:22 ... as you're shoving a diamond glass dildos up your ass.

Kara Swisher 22:25 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 22:25 I mean, for God's sakes.

Kara Swisher 22:27 There's no diamond. I don't do... I hope you didn't do that this weekend, Scott.

Scott Galloway 22:31 I would have tried.

Kara Swisher 22:32 I would have, I know you, I know you would have.

Scott Galloway 22:33 I would have tried.

Kara Swisher 22:34 I know.

Scott Galloway 22:34 I was there. I was ready.

Kara Swisher 22:34 But last thing on the economy-

Scott Galloway 22:36 I was ready.

Kara Swisher 22:36 ... I saw the best animation over the weekend comparing Warren Buffett and Cathie Wood's strategies over the past four years. Warren Buffett's kicked some fucking ass, this guy. He likes value stocks. Cathie likes, I guess, growth. I don't know quite which it is.

Scott Galloway 22:49 He's up 67, she's down 63.

Kara Swisher 22:51 60... Like, it's crazy. Uh, he's had his ups and downs.

Scott Galloway 22:53 Oh my God.

Kara Swisher 22:53 But hers just kept going down. Why do people listen to her? Did you see that? I was like-

Scott Galloway 22:59 Literally, the best thing we could do is to have the CIA plant her and Chamath as Russian asset managers.

Kara Swisher 23:05 Yeah. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 23:05 And we would bankrupt the country.

Kara Swisher 23:07 Honestly.

Scott Galloway 23:07 That should be our strategy.

Kara Swisher 23:08 I just lo- Warren Buffett, look, he's super old and he's not gonna last that long. But man, does he is a fucking GOAT. Just, he got out of c- He, like, knows exactly what to do at all times. I'm just saying, this, I just love that animation. Cathie Wood, you, uh, I just was... And l- I love a visual. I love a visual, 'cause you're like, "See what I'm saying?" kind of stuff. It-

Scott Galloway 23:27 It's the power of branding.

Kara Swisher 23:28 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 23:28 She talks about things like hash rates with her big chunky glasses and says-

Kara Swisher 23:32 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 23:32 "... send me a billion dollars and I will turn it into 220 million."

Kara Swisher 23:36 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 23:36 "But look how cool my big chunky glasses are. And CNBC keeps bringing me on because I have a price target of $10,000 on Tesla-"

Kara Swisher 23:44 I know. Oh.

Scott Galloway 23:45 "... who will enable them to sell more opioid-induced constipation ads despite the fact I have very few people of..."

Kara Swisher 23:50 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 23:50 It is literally the lesson.

Kara Swisher 23:52 Honestly.

Scott Galloway 23:52 I am going to have a class-

Kara Swisher 23:54 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 23:54 ... on branding, how branding-

Kara Swisher 23:56 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 23:56 ... can supersede-

Kara Swisher 23:57 Can you teach-

Scott Galloway 23:57 ... actual performance on Cathie Wood.

Kara Swisher 23:59 Oh my God, I'm so glad you're gonna teach again. You should. That would be a really good class. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, more agency cuts, uh, in the Trump administration. Scott,

Kara Swisher 24:09 we're back. President Trump has placed another round of agency on the chopping block, uh, including the Voice of America, or VOA. It's kind of a screw you to Kathy, Kari Lake, but that's another issue. Uh, I'm perfectly happy with that. The VOA, run by the US Agency for Global Media, broadcasts United States domestic news to hundreds of millions around the world to extend, uh, US influence and to combat authoritarianism. Kari Lake, who Trump, Trump chose to run VOA, uh, she was the one who keeps losing in Arizona, was plant- the l- the, the loud, nasty lady who keeps losing in, in Arizona, was planning to transform the outlet to fight an information war. The cuts made, uh, in an executive order also targeted agencies which address homelessness, fund libraries, and promote economic development for minority and low income communities. So, basically everybody but the rich people. Um-... talk, I don't know if the BOA cut matters. What do you think of this Voice of America cut? No big deal? Big deal?

Scott Galloway 25:02 Look, (laughs) I believe, I mean what is really, really staggering is there was an analysis done of how many deaths-

Kara Swisher 25:10 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 25:11 ... are going to happen this year.

Kara Swisher 25:12 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 25:12 Unnecessary deaths from things like malaria-

Kara Swisher 25:15 Right.

Scott Galloway 25:16 ... uh, hunger, from this cut of $75 billion of USAID, and they're estimating just this year alone, there's gonna be three million deaths. And people say, okay, there's, there's some powerful memes online saying, "What other nation taxes their people and sends money to us?" And the answer is, okay, they, the, the whole point, the, the, one of the basic tenets of a post-World War II America starting with what is arguably the most visionary act in economic political history is we said, "Okay. Germany and Japan treated us really poorly. They were our enemy. But this is what we're gonna do. We're going to, in an act of extraordinary vision and generosity, we're going to pay for the reconstruction of their societies." And overnight, not overnight, over a decade, we turned two formidable, unbelievable cultures that were incredibly formidable enemies into incredible allies, and it has really held the post-World War II peace and prosperity is that these two, the kinda the number two and number three economies (laughs) around the world until China were our allies, and they realized through this act, through this act of generosity, and we recognized that soft power is the hardest power in the world because you don't even know what wars don't break out. You don't even know what individual in an African country with a, a strong anti-American contingent refuses to work with them and cooperate 'cause they think, "You know what? They're actually good people."

Kara Swisher 26:52 Yeah, we need to beat them.

Scott Galloway 26:52 "Maybe, maybe we don't agree with them. Maybe, maybe they make bad decisions, but at the end of the day, they try to do the right things. They're, they're trying to stop AIDS in our country. They're trying, they're trying to stop hunger. They're willing to send aircraft. They're willing to send people in, put their boots on the ground when they sense there's actual genocide." That soft power for about 1% of our deficit creates margin power and goodwill that affects millions of decisions made every week around whether to help, work with, want to send your best and brightest to this nation. This is like, these are investments in, for lack of a better term, brand building, where people think, "I wanna go to the US. I wanna work with US companies. I don't want to take an American tourist hostage or kill them because they're nice people and their memory is long and their reach is far. Let's not fuck with them. Let's work with them." And so this withdrawal of soft power, uh, when you look at the actual return we have gotten on this soft power, is extraordinary, and something like the Voice of Amer- And I wanna be clear. There's, there, I believe as an educator, the Department of Education should probably be smaller than it is. Universal testing nationally was a good idea. It hasn't worked. The, the 500 people of the 4,000 that work for the Department of Education should probably lose their job. I'm not against reducing the size of government. But when you just start cutting everything, including things that are working really well and making people feel good about America and creating prosperity and margin power, and it's gonna take decades to rebuild once we realize it was a bad idea to do away with it. So Kari Lake, it's fun. Kari Lake is a fucking distraction. That, that's a distraction. The question is should we be spending a little bit of money to have our viewpoints-

Kara Swisher 28:41 Yep.

Scott Galloway 28:41 ... transmitted in a thoughtful, well-produced way around the world?

Kara Swisher 28:45 I, I, I think it's w- it's such a good spending of money. And by the way, guess who's running into this space? The Russians and the Chinese, right?

Scott Galloway 28:52 100%.

Kara Swisher 28:53 That's the thing. It's the smallest amount of money to spend, one, to keep it away. We have a better story. Like, it's okay, and it, I don't, I, I think Voice of America-

Scott Galloway 29:01 And we're good at it.

Kara Swisher 29:01 ... and we're good at it.

Scott Galloway 29:02 We're good at media.

Kara Swisher 29:02 And by the way, the media's good. It's actually very clear. It's, you know, they're like, "Oh, they're anti-Trump." This is a whole thing, uh, you know, ob- obsessing them, but if you're in... Listen, Kari Lake, who, I'm sorry, is a village idiot, um, he was gonna transform the outlet to fight an information war. Yes, Kari, that's what you need to do, but not in your trumped-up ridiculous way. It's giving people good information about the United States and what we're doing here. It shows we're present. It shows we care. It's like, e- even if it's, uh, it's just very solid inf- I have listened to Voice of America elsewhere. It's, and we also fund things like Radio Free Europe, et cetera. I know there's some things, and I do think about this a lot, that are of a different era and we shouldn't do anymore. Like, sometimes we have to change and things, but this is money well spent, especially when the Chinese and the Russians and other people are putting out all kinds of misinformation around the world, and information about themselves, right? Not just misinformation, but, "Look at us. Look what we're doing," and stuff like that, and I just think it's just the best way to say, uh, you know, "Here's America. We're still here. We still are great." And I just, what a, huh, what a, uh... The only thing that I get pleasure in is she doesn't really have a job, but that's fine. Like, that's just my personal pleasure, but the cuts they're making are so targeted to things that make us better as a nation that it's really, it's, uh, it's just sort of a fend for yourself kinda thing that's happening, which I think is not the picture America has of itself, or maybe they do now.

Scott Galloway 30:33 Kari Lake is the physical embodiment of AI right now in that is she put herself out of business. I love that she said on a campaign trail as if it was a feature, not a bug, that "I'm going to be the media's worst nightmare."

Kara Swisher 30:43 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 30:44 Well, she, okay, she got herself fired.

Kara Swisher 30:46 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 30:46 She's right. She's the worst, she's the worst thing that happened to media, including the Voice of America, and now she's out of work. I'd-

Kara Swisher 30:53 She, ugh.

Scott Galloway 30:53 It's just b- the p-

Kara Swisher 30:54 And she wanted to bring all her skills as a news c- She was on a local news station, Kari. Sorry. I don't find you to be the top level media thinker of our generation. (laughs) Like...

Scott Galloway 31:03 Y- you know who's playing, you know who's playing the long game right now?

Kara Swisher 31:06 Who?

Scott Galloway 31:06 It's always, it's always, the Gulf.

Kara Swisher 31:07 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 31:08 Al Jazeera.

Kara Swisher 31:09 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 31:10 ... or, or funding, you know, quote unquote "Middle Eastern studies-

Kara Swisher 31:13 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 31:13 ... departments slowly but surely-

Kara Swisher 31:15 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 31:15 ... across universities-

Kara Swisher 31:16 That's what-

Scott Galloway 31:16 ... across America.

Kara Swisher 31:16 ... you should do, America. You should do that. All th- they're getting rid of all these-

Scott Galloway 31:19 And it's effective.

Kara Swisher 31:20 ... democracy organizations, you know-

Scott Galloway 31:21 Do you think-

Kara Swisher 31:21 ... there's a million democracy organizations.

Scott Galloway 31:23 (laughs) Do you think these, what a lot of people believe, including myself, is these anti-Semitic protests on campus just happened overnight? No, they took a lot of thoughtful long-term investing. Do you think that empathy towards w- whatever you want, you know, uh, uh, different viewpoints out of the Gulf just happened overnight? Al Jazeera? Do you think that when my son, on the way to sushi asks me, he says, "Dad, when did we take their land away?" Do you think that happened overnight? No. The Chinese are playing, the Chinese and the Gulf are playing the long game. And we used to think about this. We used to think about, okay, how can soft power slowly but surely get people to our viewpoint such that every decision, every action, every economic, every mil- We have 700 military bases in like 70 or 80 countries. Do you, do you realize how many decisions and a view of our country, and most of these people making these deci- decisions have never been to America. So your, uh, your brand, your, people's perception of you, I'm just not inclined to do business with a company from Afghanistan. I've never been there, I don't know that many Afghanis, it is an unfair snap decision. But it's based on the impression I have-

Kara Swisher 32:33 Perceptions.

Scott Galloway 32:33 ... the perceptions (laughs) of their country.

Kara Swisher 32:34 Yeah. This is such a marketing-

Scott Galloway 32:35 Which-

Kara Swisher 32:35 ... opportunity missed. What, what-

Scott Galloway 32:37 If somebody c-

Kara Swisher 32:38 Go ahead.

Scott Galloway 32:38 If somebody comes from New Zealand, I'm like, "I like them."

Kara Swisher 32:40 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 32:41 I'd like to hire them.

Kara Swisher 32:41 Why do I like the New Zealand? Lamb.

Scott Galloway 32:42 If I, if I, if, if they start-

Kara Swisher 32:44 Lamb.

Scott Galloway 32:44 If they, if they start rounding up Jews, I'm shoving Bitcoin up my ass and I'm heading to New Zealand.

Kara Swisher 32:48 Yes. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 32:49 And I'm gonna spend a lot more money there.

Kara Swisher 32:50 Yeah. Don't

Narrator 32:51 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 32:51 All of these brand perceptions are so, they are more important than the actual a- a- in many ways-

Kara Swisher 32:56 100%.

Scott Galloway 32:56 ... the actual activities. And we are pulling back on all of our brand building activities.

Kara Swisher 33:01 And our polling is gonna go down, Kari Lake, but mostly because of you. Anyway, President

Kara Swisher 33:05 Trump also visited the Justice Department, speaking of ruining something that had a very good reputation, to give an hour-long speech focused mostly on criticizing those who investigated him. What a tiny minded person he is. Presidents do not typically speak at the Justice Department for a good reason. Here are some of the things Trump said. He proclaimed himself the chief law enforcement officer in our country, which usually is the attorney general. Uh, he also suggested it's illegal for networks to cover him in what he sees as an overly negative light. He said the classified documents case against him was bullshit. When the speech ended, YMCA played and he did his dance. Oh my God. It's, they're, they're... How are we losing to this person? I, uh, this is, uh, marketing, give me a marketing thing here, 'cause obviously this was all such nonsense, he shouldn't have been there. It does, this is a line we should never cross, and he does it constantly back and forth. And again, in an ideal world, what should Democrats be doing in response to this?

Scott Galloway 33:57 Yeah, look, I, I, it, it, there is such a void here of Democratic leadership for someone just to stand up and say, you know, "This is bullshit." More importantly, uh, uh, and I, I know this is gonna drive you crazy, I have literally, I'm about to be indoctrinated into the woke church. I'm about to become an apostle, a cardinal. They are burning white smoke at the ballots, because I am now doing a live podcast with my other side piece, the much... Basically she's you but younger-

Kara Swisher 34:24 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 34:24 ... which is what I like to do-

Kara Swisher 34:25 Mm-hmm. Okay.

Scott Galloway 34:25 ... what I'll do with my third and fourth wife.

Kara Swisher 34:27 Okay. Yeah. All right.

Scott Galloway 34:28 I am speaking at the 92nd Street Y-

Kara Swisher 34:30 (gasps) .

Scott Galloway 34:30 ... and all I can think about, all I can think about-

Kara Swisher 34:32 Uh-huh.

Scott Galloway 34:33 ... is when they introduce me, standing up and screaming out, "Young man, there's no fee to-

Kara Swisher 34:37 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 34:38 ... feel down. I said young man."

Kara Swisher 34:41 (laughs) what, you're-

Scott Galloway 34:42 I cannot wait.

Kara Swisher 34:42 ... going there with Tarlov? You're doing a Tarlov event?

Scott Galloway 34:45 Me-

Kara Swisher 34:45 I have to-

Scott Galloway 34:45 ... and Jessica Tarlov-

Kara Swisher 34:46 I literally have to-

Scott Galloway 34:47 ... were invited.

Kara Swisher 34:47 ... pull fucking teeth. We have been offered 10 of these, and you've turned them all down. You know that. Like at Aspen, we were offered-

Scott Galloway 34:53 Yeah, but I'm trying-

Kara Swisher 34:54 ... one in France.

Scott Galloway 34:54 ... to impress the new wife.

Kara Swisher 34:55 Honestly-

Scott Galloway 34:56 I'm trying to impress-

Kara Swisher 34:56 Literally-

Scott Galloway 34:56 ... the new wife.

Kara Swisher 34:56 ... we're not doing France 'cause you won't do it. We're not doing, oh my God.

Scott Galloway 35:00 We're not doing France? When did we get-

Kara Swisher 35:01 We invited, we got-

Scott Galloway 35:01 ... invited to France?

Kara Swisher 35:02 ... invited to France. You're busy doing something else, an expensive-

Scott Galloway 35:03 To Le Web or something like that?

Kara Swisher 35:05 ... speech, something. Whatever. Any time I try to get one of these going, which people are desperate for, you say no and you say yes to her. I just want to-

Scott Galloway 35:12 Unless there's hot people or a ton of Benjamins-

Kara Swisher 35:13 And it's for the-

Scott Galloway 35:14 ... Figati.

Kara Swisher 35:14 ... 92nd Street. Why? It's not like a w- like anything really big.

Scott Galloway 35:17 In France?

Kara Swisher 35:17 No, not the France one would have been fun. We would have enjoyed ourselves. But no-

Scott Galloway 35:20 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 35:20 ... the one in Aspen you won't do? I'm just saying. I'm just saying.

Scott Galloway 35:24 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 35:25 I'm just saying.

Scott Galloway 35:25 No, I gotta-

Kara Swisher 35:26 I can't get you-

Scott Galloway 35:26 ... I gotta, I gotta, I gotta pretend to be young and hip with the new wife.

Kara Swisher 35:29 I cannot get you to take me out to dinner, Scott. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 35:32 There you go.

Kara Swisher 35:33 It's just-

Scott Galloway 35:33 There you go.

Kara Swisher 35:34 Anyway. Uh, uh, that will be very nice for you to do. I'm gonna move on now. Uh, I, I, I'm gonna move on. The Democrats, you have a huge wide hole you could drive a truck through, and you are not driving it. You're driving it into a wall-

Scott Galloway 35:44 That's right.

Kara Swisher 35:44 ... Chuck Schumer. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, uh, Southwest Airlines is no longer offering free bags.

Kara Swisher 35:51 Scott, we're back, very briefly. Scott, S- Southwest Airlines will soon end its policy allowing free checked bags. Bags fly free has long been what is, Southwest is known for, along with having no assigned seating, which the airline will also eliminate, uh, this year. (laughs) So they're basically United. Um, uh, frequent flyers and f- uh, credit card holders will still be allowed one free bag, and the, but the move has been met with, uh, criticism online. Activists at Metro Elliott Management has been increasing pressure on the airline to raise profits. Obviously it's expensive to do this. Meanwhile, Spirit Airlines is fresh out of bankruptcy, and the CEO said it's ready to take on competitors, we'll take advantage of the time it takes Southwest to find its new footing with the new rules. Uh, brand assessment, isn't, this is what Southwest was actually a good version of a cheap airline, right?

Scott Galloway 36:33 Until about 10 years ago, Southwest Airlines had a greater market capitalization than the rest of the US industry combined.

Kara Swisher 36:39 They did.

Scott Galloway 36:39 And what it, Southwest was able to do was build an amazing brand sort of around freedom. And that was, we don't charge the owners cancellation fees, it's very flexible, you can sort of get up and go. Even being located in the Southwest, we were all about low cost. They always had 737s to try and create operational efficiency. They implemented a great culture that was sort of fun and quirky. And the idea was if things aren't going well for you, you want to take a vacation or quite frankly you want to peace out and move to Vegas-

Kara Swisher 37:08 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 37:08 ... Southwest is about freedom. It had this amazing brand.... and when you look at an industry where it is near impossible to establish differentiation-

Kara Swisher 37:18 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 37:18 Think about it, they're all flying to the same place, they're all flying the same goddamn equipment, they're all hiring effectively the same people, how do you maintain any sort of differentiation that creates an industry that is-

Kara Swisher 37:29 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 37:29 ... non-commoditized and results in shareholder value? And Southwest was able to do that. And one of the key components of their brand-

Kara Swisher 37:36 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 37:36 ... was, "We don't rip you off or nickel and dime you by charging you-

Kara Swisher 37:41 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 37:41 ... for bags." And I see this, by the way, I think Elliott are some of the smartest people in investment, disclosure-

Kara Swisher 37:46 Me too. I know that.

Scott Galloway 37:47 ... I work with them. I like them. They've been very generous with me. I think this is the wrong move. I think this is straight trading off short-term profits and financial engineering to make a quick buck, and then basically lose one of the few, one of the few precious scarce forms of differentiation in an industry that has been totally commoditized.

Kara Swisher 38:09 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 38:09 And so then the question is, if you take away these few things that differentiate Southwest, what is their differentiation?

Kara Swisher 38:16 Exactly.

Scott Galloway 38:17 It just, it just becomes a search on Expedia for who has the lowest price.

Kara Swisher 38:21 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 38:22 Who do I go to first? So I see this as a pure example of short-term juicing of profits. The stock will probably go up. It will substantially increase their EBITDA. Elliott will sell their stake, and Southwest further melds into this giant amorphous bubble of all airlines with no differentiation. I, this is, this again is another lesson, branding is like working out. The next day it hurts. It sucks. It requires discipline. But if you're disciplined about it and willing to make the consistent investments in working out, everything gets a little bit easier. You get a little bit stronger. It's easier to go up the stairs. People want to hang out with you. You're less likely to have bouts of depression. Brand building, and this is brand building, the, the free bags, is working out every day. And what they've decided to do is like, "I'm done. I want the profits." I, I, I think this is a bad move. I think this is trading off brand equity for a short-term hit in EBITDA.

Kara Swisher 39:18 Yep. I would agree with you. I think you're correct on all these things. I just, this is, I, I, I don't know why I would take S-... I used to take Southwest a lot 'cause of these things. Like, it was ch- always cheaper. It was always more flexible. Now I'm like, "Well, if I have to pay, I might as well, like, have the things I like and then collect..." you know. I don't know if you know this, Scott, I'm with Global Services on United now. I am finally.

Scott Galloway 39:39 I don't even know what that means.

Kara Swisher 39:40 The top tier. They have a secret room.

Scott Galloway 39:43 That's a sign that your relationships are struggling and your life sucks.

Kara Swisher 39:46 I know-

Scott Galloway 39:46 I used to take

Kara Swisher 39:46 ... but I'm still very happy. I'm very happy, I have to say. I like the separate entrances. Anyway, um, it saves-

Scott Galloway 39:52 They have separate entrances?

Kara Swisher 39:52 Yeah, they do. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 39:54 Oh.

Kara Swisher 39:55 Separate little rooms. They give you little food. You walk in, you go through security. There, there's a separate security entrance too. It's not even the special TSA whatever, clear line. It's an even better line that's really nice. I have to say that.

Scott Galloway 40:07 I just can't wait till, I just can't wait till I'm single again-

Kara Swisher 40:10 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 40:10 ... and I dress up for Halloween. I'm gonna dress up as Southwest Airlines and fuck a bunch of people.

Kara Swisher 40:16 (laughs) Okay. Anyway, I don't fly Southwest anymore and I used to fly it a lot. And it was, and the bag was an attraction. It was. It was, it was different. It was like the cheap airline that was decent, if that makes a sense. Like if I had all the kids at once and it was just a ridiculously... It was always the cheap airline that you always had a good experience on, if that makes sense, that you always... Like it was a, it, you felt, you didn't, it didn't make you feel like Spirit which always made you feel like they're gonna stick you in a box and shove you in, or Russian Air or something like that. And you're right, it's a, it's a short-term solution to a thing.

Scott Galloway 40:47 Well, th- the bottom line is, the airline industry is a terrible industry because for investors because about 30 years ago, the Gulf, uh, who are very smart and have a tremendous amount of capital, said, "We need a coming out party." And instead of ha- having an Olympics, they built and over-funded, uh, the world's best airlines in the world, because they did the math and they said, "People's brand impression of you is based on, first and foremost, the airline that brought you there and back and to the airports." And so Singapore and, uh, and then, and then UAE basically said, "The best investment we could make as a halo for an entire nation would be to build these extraordinary airlines." And essentially, uh, Singapore and then Emirates Airlines and then Qatar, uh, built the, by far, the best airlines in the world. And when you buy a ticket on Emirates Airlines, if you're spending a thousand bucks, you're getting $1,400 in service. And the American airlines and every other long haul air line in the world just can't compete.

Kara Swisher 41:47 Right.

Scott Galloway 41:48 They ca- they can't, they can't afford to compete with a company with an airline that is offering, you know... I mean, I- I think

Kara Swisher 41:55 ... did you see the ads for, for Penelope Cruz on the Emirates, the premium economy seat that looks like a, like a beautiful seat? It's this, these ads that are on and she looks and she's like-

Scott Galloway 42:05 Oh, no. You had me at Penelope Cruz.

Kara Swisher 42:07 She goes, "Premium economy," and it's like such a good ad. Like let me just say, (laughs) I was like, that's... First of all I went, "Penelope Cruz," and secondly I went, "That's a fucking nice seat there in premium economy. I would fly on that." That's, it, the two things worked. Penelope Cruz and-

Scott Galloway 42:22 Anyways.

Kara Swisher 42:22 ... the seat. Go ahead, sorry.

Scott Galloway 42:24 The airlines, the domestic carriers across the economies that demand that the airlines not be subsidized by the government, which you can argue for, just can't compete with Singapore, Emirates, and Qatar Airlines. Domestically, I think, uh, I wanna say of the big three, Delta does the best job by far. The best, the best operator in the domestic market is, uh, JetBlue Mint, seats two, aisles two and four where you get your own pod. I obviously fly a lot. But everything else is a distant second to the Gulf Airlines and quite frankly to JetBlue domestically. It is a shitty airline. Consumers have said that they will, they will endure absolute atrocious service just to get from point A to point B less expensively. That industry is an example of just, uh, I think just this last year airlines since kind of the inception of commercial aviation are finally starting in aggregate to turn a profit. It is, as J- Warren Buffett, your hero, said, "If we could, if we had a time machine, we would go back and murder, uh, the Wright brothers." It has been a terrible...... uh, place to invest. I, I fly a g- I fly, I've been flying, I've been molesting the earth for the last 30 years. I can break down almost every airline, good and bad. Worst airline in Europe, KLM, by the way. There are just incr- there are some incr- there's just such a range of good to bad. By the way, the best new first class is Lufthansa's first class, and also The Apartment, The Apartment from Singapore Airlines. But anyways, I think a lot, a lot about flying. It's, um-

Kara Swisher 43:52 Yeah, I do too.

Scott Galloway 43:53 ... but I, I do-

Kara Swisher 43:53 I love, I love, I do like flying.

Scott Galloway 43:55 Just a-

Kara Swisher 43:56 I do like C-

Scott Galloway 43:56 ... just a quick shout-out-

Kara Swisher 43:57 Sure.

Scott Galloway 43:58 ... to all the single ladies out there, I am the Southwest Airlines of men. My baggage is free. A lot of baggage. Daddy's bringing a lo- Daddy's bringing erectile dysfunction, Daddy is bringing self-hate.

Kara Swisher 44:11 Oh, no. This is, like, four bad... This is literally, like, four bad jokes. This is re- what is happening? One more quick break, and we'll be back for wins and fails. Obviously fails are four penis jokes in a row. Okay,

Kara Swisher 44:23 Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. I shall go first. I shall go first. Let me say a win. I know you were with him this weekend, but Severance is so fucking good. Ben Stiller-

Scott Galloway 44:35 Really good. Uh, Ben Stiller-

Kara Swisher 44:35 I love you, Ben Stiller. Let me just say, we th- uh, both Amanda and I... It's so incredibly dense, but also utterly fascinating, and you think about it all week. Y- uh, it is one of those shows. And I gotta say, I was like, I like a lot... I love The Sopranos, I liked, uh, The Bear. This one has me thinking and thinking and thinking about all kinds of issues around identity, everything else. But it's also really gripping at the same (laughs) time, and entertaining.

Scott Galloway 45:01 Mm-hmm. People love it.

Kara Swisher 45:01 And, and let me just say, I don't... And I always can say, "Oh, that's gonna happen next." Like, when I watch White Lotus, as much as I like it, I get, I know exactly what's gonna happen, essentially. I don't know what's gonna happen in this fucking thing. And I, I, they're so inventive. I, I, I have to say, Patricia Arquette, they're all good on this show. There's not a person that's not good. The guy who plays Mr. Milchick, he's amazing. Um, but I, I love this show. And Ben, kudos. And it's, like, it's, like, doing incredibly well for Apple. It's like one of the, like, it's grow- the audience is growing week to week. And it's not one of those small audiences that it's like everyone's talking about. It's a big audience for Apple. It's making a ton of money. Kudos. Kudos, kudos, kudos. This is, these are people at the top of their game. I have to say, I think about it all the time. So that is my win. My fail, well obviously Chuck Schumer, because th- by the way, his book tour events were postponed after the backlash. He has a book, new book out called Antisem- Semitism in America: A Warning. That's been postponed, um, for security reasons apparently. But that's not my, my loss. It's, um...

Scott Galloway 46:07 I heard the original title, Where Are My Testicles?

Kara Swisher 46:09 I mean, Where Are My Testicles? That's right.

Scott Galloway 46:10 But they changed it.

Kara Swisher 46:10 Yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Scott Galloway 46:11 Anyways.

Kara Swisher 46:11 Um, I would say this ridiculous... Trump is always doing a, a, a ridiculous thing, and a distracting thing. But his statement, uh, this weekend about, um, Biden's pardons are void and vacant because of the auto pen. There's no power to undo a p- pardon in the Constitution or case law. If he wants to do all his stupid pardons... I'm not a fan of the pardon system by presidents in any way whatsoever. I think they should get three, and that's it, and they can't get paid for it. But get your, just, like, stop with this fucking ridiculousness. You can't... He's, and the way he does it, he goes, uh, "HEREBY DECLARED," in capital letters, "VOID, VACANT, AND NO FURTHER FORCE AND EFFECT 'Cause they were done by the auto pen." Fuck you. Like, honestly c- like, this was even for him, was a ridiculous, stupid thing to do. And, uh, he has a list of stupid things. So, like, look, if we're gonna keep these dumb pardons, just stop acting like d- like... This, this is what occupies your brain? Like, good, maybe, I suppose. So I was really irritated by that for some reason. Anyway, that's my positive and negatives. Severance, fantasticness. Trump, as usual, distraction, distraction, distraction. And it's working, unfortunately.

Scott Galloway 47:19 Uh, we share the same fail. There's always a good excuse for failure.

Kara Swisher 47:23 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 47:23 And the Democratic Party has a total lack of leadership.

Kara Swisher 47:27 Who do you like in the Democrats? Can I ask you to pick someone? Chris Murphy as being kinda spicy, AOC?

Scott Galloway 47:32 I think he's been fantastic. I think, um... You know, I wish... I'm a huge fan of, uh, obviously Senators Bennet and Warner. I, I think AOC, I appreciate. I think, uh, um, Representative Crockett.

Kara Swisher 47:45 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 47:45 Is that... Yeah, she's great.

Kara Swisher 47:45 Mm-hmm. Crockett, Jasmine Crockett, mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 47:47 I mean, at least they're getting out there, and they're saying shit. Uh, I, my favorites are... I really like Representative Torres. I just love that the, that he comes out with moderate policies, and the, and the far left is cr- just, just does not know how to deal with his, the intersectionality of a Black Latino gay man saying these moderate things. I just love that he's driving everyone crazy. Uh, Governor Wes Moore, who in his State of the Union address said his administration was gonna focus on the struggles of young men.

Kara Swisher 48:15 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 48:15 I thought that was a very brave thing to do in a blue state.

Kara Swisher 48:16 Yeah, he's, he's, he's the one the Republicans are nervous about, I can tell you.

Scott Galloway 48:20 So, what I would say is, anyone who's, anyone who's willing to come out right now and say the Democratic Party lacks leadership, and take an aggressive stand against this slide into autocracy, and I'm, I will give money to you right now for your campaign. I, I just... Uh, we are desperate for someone to go a little bit gangster and have a strong voice here. I think this is... We are the, we are literally the party of eunuchs right now.

Kara Swisher 48:47 Eunuchs.

Scott Galloway 48:47 And I just-

Kara Swisher 48:48 That's a word you don't use very often. I like that word.

Scott Galloway 48:51 That's my favorite character in, uh, Game of Thrones, is the eunuch. Um, is that my favorite character? That's a tough one. I don't know. The... I like the Prince of Dorne. I like a guy... I like a bis- a bisexual who drinks a lot and kills people. That's pretty... That guy is so fucking hot. By the way, just so you know, people kept asking me why I was dancing around on stage with my shirt off at SXSW. And what they don't realize is that we had to bargain for our SXSW, um, spot. And they said, "Okay."

Kara Swisher 49:25 Oh, no.

Scott Galloway 49:25 "But if we come to you and ask you for a favor-"

Kara Swisher 49:28 Mm.

Scott Galloway 49:28 "... you have to accept." And I said, "Yes." And before us-

Kara Swisher 49:31 (laughs)

Scott Galloway 49:31 I don't know if you know this, this is a true story... was the Last of Us cast.

Kara Swisher 49:34 Oh.

Scott Galloway 49:35 And Pedro Pascal went on stage.

Kara Swisher 49:36 Uh-huh.

Scott Galloway 49:36 And all the women were literally going fucking crazy.

Kara Swisher 49:39 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 49:39 And they said, "Okay, Scott. We need you to go out there and cool down the women."

Kara Swisher 49:42 (laughs) Okay, that's a good one. (laughs) I love him.

Scott Galloway 49:45 That's good.

Kara Swisher 49:46 I love him. I have a little... I have a hunch for him.

Scott Galloway 49:47 That's good. Oh, who doesn't love that guy? Who doesn't love that guy?

Kara Swisher 49:51 Pedro Castro.

Scott Galloway 49:51 No, who doesn't? Anyways, um, where the fuck were we?

Kara Swisher 49:55 Oh, your win and fail.

Scott Galloway 49:56 Oh.

Kara Swisher 49:56 Fail, fail is the Rep- the Democrats.

Scott Galloway 49:59 My fail is, like, we, we have gotta find our footing here. There is a bu- the bad news is our leadership brightens up a room by leaving it. They are literally... they are just so ineffective, they've just acquiesced, they've basically given now the Republicans, uh, uh, carte blanche to do whatever they want. And it's just so incredibly discouraging. The, the good news is we have a fantastic bench, and what I would say to this bench is command the space you occupy. Get out there, be, be fearless, push back on this, um, what's going on here. There's an enormous void for the new generation of Democratic leadership to step into. So my, my, my fail is, uh, uh, Senator Schumer, I think it is time for you to move on. I think you, I think you are just not up to the job, quite frankly. Uh, my win is, I think Europe is a union again. Uh, it's a $19 trillion economy. They are figuring out that with the resolve and the capital, uh, the f- the latter of which they have in spades, the former of which we have to decide. In 1939, or 1940, my mother was sleeping, and her family were sleeping in tube stations and passing out gas masks in the shape of Disney characters. The real fulcrum here is that, to be fair, Russia has shown tremendous resolve. Russia is willing to send 600 young men to their death by, quite frankly, offering money to these families and small villages in Russia, but you gotta give it... I mean, you gotta acknowledge, r- the core competence of Russia is resolve and the willingness to sacrifice. Uh, the EU nations are a $20 trillion or $19 trillion economy. Russia is an economy that's $2 trillion, that's smaller than Canada. They have the capital. They have better weapons. They have better IP. They w- th- they, eh, their AI and drone technology will be far superior. The question is, do they have the resolve? If they do, then let, then let, you know, Trump bluster about pretending he gets to decide the terms of this surrender. He doesn't. If Europe wants to decide to come up and fill the void of leadership and capital and resolve that the US has abdicated from, they can absolutely, as they did in 1939, push back against a murderous autocrat. And I think we're beginning to see signs of it. I think these two meetings, one in, uh, England, one in Brussels, are showing that Starmer, um, uh, Holtz, and, um, and, uh, Macron are filling that void. Uh, so I'm hopeful. My win is that the European Union is going to begin to push back and fill the void of American leadership. I also believe, and I've said this before, it could inspire a dramatic upward spiral in the economy through the technologies spillover, and the stimulus of increased military spending and greater coordination in cutting the red tape. And we're already seeing that in the stock market, people-

Kara Swisher 53:00 Yeah. Can I, can I put something out there?

Scott Galloway 53:01 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 53:01 So they interviewed, uh, Politico interviewed Chris Sla Savita, who was one of the campaign managers of Donald Trump, and he was saying how stupid Europeans are. I'd love you to answer this. Um, he goes, "We basically subsidized Europe for the last 50 years, 60 years of post-World War II. And of course we did the rebuilding, we've done all those things, were able to create these social paradises where the government paid for everything and they didn't have to pay for, was their national defense. You know, at some point in time, the gravy train's got to end. Well, the gravy train's ending now, the Cold War's over, the balance of power shifts, all these things have changed. Politicians in Europe don't wanna change. They sure don't wanna change at the pace that's being forced on them to change how they go about spending, so it's gonna create a new level of angst." And then he said, "At the same time, they're arrogant as hell. I've spent time in Europe in the last couple of years, they still don't get it. They don't understand there's a new sheriff in town, and he's a very, very set ways and opinions, uh, about America first means, it means you're first, w- we're first, you're second." I think this guy's a fucking idiot. Like, he doesn't see what's actually ha- we're actually im- gonna, gonna make them stronger by this, correct? That's what you argued?

Scott Galloway 54:01 Well, uh, of course, I spend too much time in these private members clubs in New York, and I went to Costa Cipriani, and I went with some friends, and we had some drinks, and some carpaccio, a lovely little pasta dinner, like nice, in a corner. And the bill was 740 bucks. And I, I know the general manager, and I came over and I said, I said, "Who is here?" It's all young people. And I said, "Who are these young kids who can afford to spend 700 bucks on drinks and a light dinner?" And he said, "No one here is paying." And that is, the young women here, someone else is paying for them. If you think that's sexist, fine, it's also true. And the men, the young men, is, it's their parents' credit card. They're all trust fund kids, and this is an interesting thing, they said they're trust fund kids from New Jersey. I know a lot of trust fund kids, and to a certain extent, Europe has been a little bit of the negative externalities of being a trust fund kid. And that is, it's dependent upon the military and to a lesser extent the economic umbrella of the US, and quite frankly, they have become indulgent and spoiled. And that is a harsh statement, and it is true. And what Europe realizes now is that they're smart, they can work hard, they have incredible skills, IP, artisanship, they literally are the herm- home of the Renaissance, they are the home of, like, of, of great philosophers. If they get their shit together, they cut the regulation, and they show some of the resolve, some of the grit, and some of the innovation, that America and China has filled the void. If you look at the rise of China, it hasn't come at the expense of the US. The US still has the same GDP growth, the US still has the same number of, of big companies, of unicorns. Who it's come at the expense of is Europe.And I think a lot of this is that Europe needs to finally say, "Okay, we're gonna become a union." I believe this, in some ways, might be Bexit. It might take England back into the European Union, and they need to coordinate, lower the bureaucracy, lower, lower the, the lack of, or what I would say, the administrative state. They need to start really s- increase their substantial spending, and they need to say, "If need be, we're gonna put boots on the ground." And yeah, fine, uh, Trump, wave your arms, be an ass clown, fine. We're the ones that are gonna d- decide, "We're, we're going to back Ukraine. We have seen what happens when you let an, a murderous autocrat run unchecked. We're not down for this anymore. We'd love your help. If it's there, great. If it's not, we're gonna count on it." Keep in mind that the Europeans substantially push back, push back viciously and victoriously on a murderous autocrat for two years before the Americans wade into the war in 1930, you know, it v- r- There were two long years of the greatest, one of the greatest industrial war machines ever, the Third Reich, was invading a Europe that had stopped spending and stopped preparing and stopped coordinating. That's where we are now. Europe can absolutely push back on Russia.

Kara Swisher 56:52 Krystal Civita, you're an idiot. You're the arrogant prick. Anyway, um, uh, we want to hear from you. Uh, send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nyamag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show, or call 855-51- PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, I talked to Ezra Klein this week with, on with Kara Swisher. Let's listen to a clip.

Narrator 57:12 There is an Orwellian-ness to this, but efficiency needs a goal, right? I mean, if you want a government that can be more efficiently taken over by Elon Musk's companies, then yeah, Doge is doing great. If you want a government that can more efficiently do things in service of the public and execute big public projects, I'm like, "No, it's not doing great." Goals here really matter, and, um, what they're doing is trying to build something that is more open to high levels of crony capitalism, right? It's a sort of an oligarchic takeover. Uh, I just want to fight that.

Kara Swisher 57:43 I thought it was good. Uh, his book is really interesting. It's about the government, the, the Democrats getting a set of balls, essentially, and I think it's an interesting book. I know you've interviewed him too. Um, okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Uh, and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel, which is doing very well. We're getting... We have a face for this-

Scott Galloway 58:01 Do you think Ezra Klein has-

Kara Swisher 58:02 What?

Scott Galloway 58:02 Do you think Ezra Klein has spoken at The 90 Second Whys? Is it-

Kara Swisher 58:04 Yes, many times. He's very popular. He's like the media sexy guy now, and you have to really compete. You need to compete, okay? Uh, we'll be back, uh, on Friday, by the way. Scott, do not sing YMCA, and read us out.

Scott Galloway 58:17 Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Who's gonna decide not to surrender to a murderous autocrat? Two words: first, E, second, U. (upbeat music)