How Foreign Trolls on X Are Manipulating U.S. Politics | Pivot

1. 0:00 – 5:02

   Intro

   1. KSKara Swisher0:00

      This is a huge story the media's not paying attention to, and Scott and I have been stressing this for years. (instrumental music) Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and I'm stoked. I just ran and worked out, and I'm drinking kefir. That's what I'm doing.

   2. SGScott Galloway0:21

      Uh, I'm Scott Galloway. Uh, I did none of those things. I, I don't even know what kefir is.

   3. KSKara Swisher0:28

      Mm.

   4. SGScott Galloway0:28

      I've heard it.

   5. KSKara Swisher0:29

      I think some people pronounce it "kah-fear." I don't know, I just love it, let me just say.

   6. SGScott Galloway0:32

      I just, I'm just pretty sure anyone who drinks it also includes their pronouns at the end of an email.

   7. KSKara Swisher0:38

      No, it's just so good for you. It's full of protein. It's full of all kinds of good... Fermented. This is like... I- I am so much healthier.

   8. SGScott Galloway0:46

      I do like fermentation, I'll give you that.

   9. KSKara Swisher0:47

      I like fermentation stuff. I'm gonna get you some sauerkraut for Christmas 'cause it's a perfect gift for someone like you.

   10. SGScott Galloway0:53

       Hmm.

   11. KSKara Swisher0:53

       Um, I just wanna keep you alive. That's really what it is, and it's not-

   12. SGScott Galloway0:56

       You got it.

   13. KSKara Swisher0:56

       ... a metaphor to your personality in any way. How was your weekend?

   14. SGScott Galloway1:00

       It was all right. It was nice. The boys were home, it was really nice. A lot of Premier League.

   15. KSKara Swisher1:04

       I had an interesting... First of all, I went on a date with my lovely wife, which was nice, and some friends. Um, many people in the restaurant love Pivot, by the way. Um-

   16. SGScott Galloway1:12

       That's good to know.

   17. KSKara Swisher1:13

       And then, uh, and then, um, my friend from sixth grade, Trebby Williams, came over for brunch with her husband, Chris Keeney, who was my eighth grade boyfriend. So it was really fun. It was-

   18. SGScott Galloway1:25

       Wow.

   19. KSKara Swisher1:26

       I know.

   20. SGScott Galloway1:26

       That's a lot.

   21. KSKara Swisher1:26

       They're wonderful people. They found love, uh, uh, th- this is their second marriage, both of them. And I have to say, um, both of their spouses died. Um, and they are wonderful. They're, I, I am, lo- I love having friends from that... I know you have those friends, and I really, uh, value it quite a bit.

   22. SGScott Galloway1:43

       Do they have, did they have kids from their previous marriages?

   23. KSKara Swisher1:46

       Yeah, mm-hmm. Yep. Older kids. You know, the, her daughter's a professor at Berkeley, or associate professor. Uh, her, uh, her other daughter's a really well-known tattoo artist in, um, in Los Angeles, oddly enough. Interesting.

   24. SGScott Galloway2:00

       Huh.

   25. KSKara Swisher2:00

       Um, and, uh, and he has kids. I don't know his kids as well. But, um, yeah, they did. They're just, there's, they're, they're a wonderful couple, I have to say.

   26. SGScott Galloway2:08

       That's nice. Sounds like a, sounds like a, sounds like a nice, um-

   27. KSKara Swisher2:12

       It was. It was a Sunday brunch-y thing, and it was really, it was quite lovely. It was quite lovely, right?

   28. SGScott Galloway2:17

       Whenever I see someone, a tattoo artist, sometimes I was like, "If you show me your boobs, I'll show you my tattoos."

   29. KSKara Swisher2:21

       (laughs)

   30. SGScott Galloway2:22

       I call it, I call it tit for tat.
2. 5:02 – 19:34

   Foreign Influence on U.S. Politics

   1. KSKara Swisher5:02

      a number of America First and MAGA accounts on X... This is a huge story the media's not paying attention to, and Scott and I have been stressing this for years. Um, a- a lot of these MAGA accounts on X appear to be based in places like Russia, India, Nigeria, Pakistan. According to the company's brand new About This Account feature, the tool, rolled out late last week, shows where an account is based, where, when it was created, and how many times its username has changed. I think this is a good thing. I don't, I- I think this is actually a good update. X has had a product called the Feature, an important first step to securing the integrity of the global town square. I would agree. Though he later warned of a few rough edges that will resolve this week. He also said any data is incorrect. It will be updated periodically based on the best available information. That means they're gonna manipulate it the way Elon has been doing Grok.

   2. SGScott Galloway5:48

      Mm-hmm.

   3. KSKara Swisher5:48

      Um, uh, I think you are as shocked as I am that foreign actors are behind some of these accounts. I saw a post on Threads, "Your MAGA hat was made in China, and your MAGA hate was made in Russia. Nothing about you is America first." Also many X users pointed out inaccuracies in their own locations. So it's not limited to MAGA accounts. Um, a- and, let me link this with another story 'cause it's a bigger idea of this Russian-

   4. SGScott Galloway6:10

      Mm-hmm.

   5. KSKara Swisher6:10

      ... manipulation. As the peace talks continue between the US and Ukrainian officials in Geneva, Secretary of State Marco Rubio is insisting the US wrote the 28-point Ukraine peace plan that's been circulating, a plan that many Ukrainians dismissed as a capitulation. This comes after a bipartisan group of senators said Rubio privately described it as a Russia's wi- wishlist. Rubio is trying really hard to thread this needle. Uh, Rubio has been denying and downplaying, saying the plan was early document that received input from both sides. Trump said over the weekend that if Zelenskyy doesn't agree to the peace plan he can, quote, "continue to fight his little heart out." Uh, M- Marco Rubio's in a real fucking jam here. But more to the point, the Russians... Both things show the manipulation of information by Russia with this group of people. They are so, they're such, you know, a- you know, idiot assets essentially. What are your thoughts on this? 'Cause you and I have-... focused on this quite a lot.

   6. SGScott Galloway7:03

      Th- these platforms, the GRU, the Mossad, the CIA, the NSA, the CCP couldn't have dreamt these platforms up in their wildest dreams because not only can you use them to track people and find their key relationships, if you're a foreign entity that can't beat us kinetically or economically, you just take this unregulated (sighs) industry where now two thirds of people get their information, and it has no regulation and a management team that is just totally focused on economic wealth and shareholder value. And why would you spend $4 or $5 billion trying to build an aircraft carrier when you can spend $100 million and essentially create a pretty strong narrative against providing more weapons and aid to Ukraine by weaponizing troll farms and using these platforms? Uh, the, the thing that is, uh, probably more influential than the actual statements itself on these social media platforms is the comments. I mean, I can't help it, and I don't think most people can help it. They say something, they make a declarative statement, a viewpoint, "We should be shipping long-range missiles, uh, spec- specifically the Flamingo and maybe the Tomahawk, into Ukraine. Take out the o- take out the, the refining infrastructure, one percent-"

   7. KSKara Swisher8:18

      Yes. Yeah.

   8. SGScott Galloway8:18

      "... and boom, the war is over." And your comments will fill up with, "There's, there you go again. You warmonger. And you're-"

   9. KSKara Swisher8:25

      Yeah.

   10. SGScott Galloway8:25

       "... trying to start World War III." And then you click on these things, and it's like Dog Mom Wisconsin with three followers. And the comments-

   11. KSKara Swisher8:33

       You know it's like what... You know those pictures of them with screens in front... You've seen those pictures of these farms where there's hundreds and hundreds of screens.

   12. SGScott Galloway8:42

       Hundreds.

   13. KSKara Swisher8:42

       Yeah.

   14. SGScott Galloway8:42

       And so I think Xi and Putin and, I would argue, Hamas would be stupid not to make massive investments in trying to shape the narrative in the US to their favor.

   15. KSKara Swisher8:55

       Mm-hmm. Yeah, 100%.

   16. SGScott Galloway8:56

       We do it with our psyops. I just don't think we're as good at it, and just a brief unmasking of where these accounts were coming from shows that foreign actors are having a real impact on our discourse. Now, what's a little different here is that I think a lot of these MAGA farms or MAGA accounts that have huge followings-

   17. KSKara Swisher9:16

       Yeah.

   18. SGScott Galloway9:17

       ... are actually not people trying to shape the narrative for propaganda purposes. They're people just trying to make money.

   19. KSKara Swisher9:22

       Yeah, could be.

   20. SGScott Galloway9:23

       So if you live in Nigeria and you find the easiest way to get several hundred thousand followers is just to be crazy MAGA-

   21. KSKara Swisher9:30

       Mm-hmm.

   22. SGScott Galloway9:30

       You do it and you make some money.

   23. KSKara Swisher9:31

       Why not? That's a really good point, Scott. That's, it's not for influence. It's for money.

   24. SGScott Galloway9:35

       Well, I think it's both.

   25. KSKara Swisher9:36

       But it cre- but it also creates influence, right? 'Cause these people get all ja- jacked up.

   26. SGScott Galloway9:40

       Yeah, and, and, and there's just no getting around it. I've been thinking about this a lot, and my advice to younger people or if you wanna be, quote-unquote, a thought leader, like, I don't think Muhammad Ali or Margaret Thatcher would have given a flying fuck what their comments were in social media.

   27. KSKara Swisher9:55

       Mm-hmm. (laughs)

   28. SGScott Galloway9:56

       And-

   29. KSKara Swisher9:57

       That's a good one.

   30. SGScott Galloway9:58

       ... uh, five years ago, 7... uh, 7, 10 years ago, I, I would be on social media, and I'd say something, but I was there for the likes. And the likes were dictating what I said and how I thought because I wanted to please people and I wanted affirmation for others, or at least influencing it. And then what I realized is, okay, that just results in more extremism, and when we all bark up the same tree, we get stupid.
3. 19:34 – 27:06

   Trump-Mamdani “Lovefest”

   1. KSKara Swisher19:34

      Uh, uh, on our last episode, I predicted that Donald Trump and Zoron Mamdani would get along like peas and carrots. And guess what, Scott? What, what am I gonna say next? I was.

   2. SGScott Galloway19:44

      I'm telling you, it's the name of your biography.

   3. KSKara Swisher19:46

      Uh, but I was.

   4. SGScott Galloway19:47

      I was right...

   5. KSKara Swisher19:48

      Was-

   6. SGScott Galloway19:49

      ... dot, dot, dot.

   7. KSKara Swisher19:49

      I was fucking dead right.

   8. SGScott Galloway19:50

      I was right.

   9. KSKara Swisher19:50

      Was I dead right?

   10. SGScott Galloway19:50

       No, no. And... dot, dot, dot. I was right.

   11. KSKara Swisher19:53

       Dead right.

   12. SGScott Galloway19:54

       Yeah.

   13. KSKara Swisher19:54

       This one was fantastic. Their Oval Office meeting is described as a love fest with Trump looking smitten as he grinned at the mayor. Elect Trump praised Mamdani's campaign, called him a very rational person and said he'd be cheering him on as mayor. He... Let's listen to Trump explain what he finds so fascinating about Mamdani.

   14. GUGuest20:11

       I think he's different, and that can be in a very positive way, but I think he's different than, you know, your typical guy, runs, wins, becomes mayor maybe, and nothing exciting. Because he has a chance to really do something great for New York. New York is at a very critical point, and he does need the help of the federal government to really succeed, and we're gonna be helping him.

   15. KSKara Swisher20:32

       Trump even brushed off Mamdani previously calling him a fascist. He says, "Don't answer that, I'm fine with it." For his part, Mamdani told Meet the Press over the weekend that he stands by his criticism of Trump. Uh, then there was a lot of glamour shots in front of FDR, the socialist president, um, uh, the most socialist president. And of course there was a picture of, of Mamdani and he from behind looking over I suppose the Mar-a-Lago patio, and it was sort of a, "This can well be yours someday, son." It was so romantic. It was... I, I, I don't think people were wrong about the romance of it. Not on Mamdani's part, on Trump's part, which was weird. Now, let me be clear. He will invade New York if he wants to tomorrow. Like he could shift on a fucking dime. But I think he understood the political strength of Mamdani as a winner, as we talked about. What are your thoughts?

   16. SGScott Galloway21:19

       I think it was really s- I think it was an incredibly sh- shrewd move on both their parts. I think it ma- made both of them seem a lot more statesmanlike. And, um, this was just the definition of a win-win.

   17. KSKara Swisher21:31

       Right. Right.

   18. SGScott Galloway21:32

       And I, I think Trump wants to be, you know, popular, well-liked in what he sees is his, his city, his home city. Uh, Mamdani, uh... Trump has always been very looksist and loves a handsome young man. He... It's always been very important to him and he admires those people. And Mamdani is both those things, or Mamdani. He also, uh, you know... Trump is attracted to strength. It, Mamdani's win is nothing short of remarkable.

   19. KSKara Swisher22:01

       Yeah, twice.

   20. SGScott Galloway22:02

       And also Mamdani was really smart. To be in the Oval Office and show that kind of respect, and-

   21. KSKara Swisher22:08

       Mm-hmm.

   22. SGScott Galloway22:08

       ... not be crazy and not be-

   23. KSKara Swisher22:09

       Dress nicely as opposed to Elon.

   24. SGScott Galloway22:11

       Show respect.

   25. KSKara Swisher22:11

       Remember the visual?

   26. SGScott Galloway22:12

       This was-

   27. KSKara Swisher22:13

       You know the visual of Elon standing there in like a T-shirt looking like a lunatic, like a drug addict essentially?

   28. SGScott Galloway22:18

       He looked like Hot Topic the day before it had its cl- going out of business sale.

   29. KSKara Swisher22:22

       (laughs) Exactly.

   30. SGScott Galloway22:22

       He's like, "Swing by. Doesn't our uncle like this shit?"
4. 27:06 – 33:46

   Google’s Gemini 3 Win

   1. KSKara Swisher27:06

      taking a big step ahead in AI with the launch of Gemini 3. The company's latest model outperforms competitors on over a dozen benchmark intelligence tests. Alphabet's market value is currently exceeding Microsoft's for the first time in seven years. Nice job, Scott, in picking that, uh, Alphabet as your stock pick. But Gemini has a way to go in terms of users. ChatGPT has 800 million users each week compared to Gemini's 650, uh, million monthly users. Um, uh, you know, oddly enough, lots of people are praising it. Marc Benioff, who shifts on a dime, is saying that, "Holy shit, this is really good." People who use it are saying it's really good, this nano banana kind of thing. Um, i- is this a real shift? Because I mean, as y- you and I both talked about, um, there's a real problem for OpenAI not to become Ne- Netscape right here. That that's the issue.

   2. SGScott Galloway27:54

      Yeah.

   3. KSKara Swisher27:54

      Maybe a superior browser, everyone was using it, and then they weren't. Um, this stuff can go away rather quickly, and Google has so many hooks into people, um, through search and to, to make the leapfrog. And if it's a better product, e- so much the better.

   4. SGScott Galloway28:09

      Yeah, it's... So in my predictions deck of 2024 for '25, one of my predictions was the, um, empire strikes back.

   5. KSKara Swisher28:18

      Yeah.

   6. SGScott Galloway28:18

      And I was making a reference. Uh, Alphabet has the most, uh, IP around AI in history. They got caught asleep at the switch, and it's the ulti- eh, ultimate example of the innovator's dilemma in the sense that they didn't want to cannibalize their search business, so they didn't monetize it or productize it, and then they created an opening for, for OpenAI. But they have gotten the memo in a serious way. And when you, when you have two billion people logging into your platform every day, you just have this unbelievable fire hose you can point at a product. And now, arguably, by a lot of metrics, uh, Gemini 3-

   7. KSKara Swisher28:52

      It's a better product.

   8. SGScott Galloway28:52

      ... yeah, their latest AI model, is, uh, the best performing LLM in the world. And then you co-

   9. KSKara Swisher28:57

      Have, have you used it? Have you started using it? You, you're, you're a ChatGPT boy.

   10. SGScott Galloway29:01

       Yeah.

   11. KSKara Swisher29:01

       You, or Claude, you're a Claude person, right?

   12. SGScott Galloway29:02

       I like, oh, yeah. I like, I like Claude. But I do go back and forth, and what I find really powerful-

   13. KSKara Swisher29:09

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SGScott Galloway29:09

       ... is, is not Gemini, but the AI summaries at the top of every Google search, search query now.

   15. KSKara Swisher29:14

       They're getting better and better. They were terrible at star- at the start. Now they're really good.

   16. SGScott Galloway29:17

       And something that skipped most of the media is that Gemini has also turned on ads on its AI overviews, with... So that will be a massive new revenue generation tool for one of the most widely, widely used AI tools. And they'll, and they, I think, are saying, "Okay, we're in the ad business, not the subscription business." So that means the tool's roughly 75 million daily users will see sponsored results in the AI summaries that appear at the top of the Google searches.

   17. KSKara Swisher29:45

       Right.

   18. SGScott Galloway29:45

       And that means they're, they're the first AI company to turn on ads. So I saw that as more significant here.

   19. KSKara Swisher29:51

       Yeah.

   20. SGScott Galloway29:51

       And in the short term, users may prefer Claude and ChatGPT, which are still ad-free, but what I have been surprised at... Have you heard the term fast TV? So linear TV.

   21. KSKara Swisher30:02

       Yeah, yeah. Sure, yeah. Tubi and stuff like that, yeah.

   22. SGScott Galloway30:05

       Yeah, Tubi. So linear TV is you turn on the TV, and it's just running, it's not streaming TV. So every year for the last 20 years, streaming has been eating into linear's market share. For the last two or three years, it stopped. 50% of time spent watching video is linear TV. Some people like the passive, relaxing, less costly version of TV, where they just sit there.

   23. KSKara Swisher30:33

       Just like when I get on the Law & Order channel, and I just let it play.

   24. SGScott Galloway30:36

       Yeah, I see Goodfellas while I'm watching it for 15 minutes-

   25. KSKara Swisher30:38

       E- exactly.

   26. SGScott Galloway30:38

       ... till a commercial.

   27. KSKara Swisher30:39

       Yeah.

   28. SGScott Galloway30:39

       Then I go three more channels. Oh, there's The Shawshank Redemption. I'll watch-

   29. KSKara Swisher30:42

       Yeah.

   30. SGScott Galloway30:42

       ... that for eight minutes. Then-
5. 33:46 – 39:18

   AI Bubble Fears Return

   1. KSKara Swisher33:46

      related story, markets remain unsteady, and we have talked about this a lot, and it went up. And with NVIDIA's fantastic earnings we talked about last week, the market still remains unsteady amid this continued AI bubble fierce. They did not go away after N- NVIDIA's impressive earnings. Um, it was just a short-term fix. NVIDIA wiped out its initial jump from the earnings. It's now down 2.3% in the last five days. They're all down. Bitcoin has, like, gone to the basement. The Trumps have lost a lot of money. I know we feel bad about that. Um, at the timing of the taping, the S&P 500 and the Dow Jones are down around 1.5% for the month after a rocky couple of weeks. Meanwhile, crypto, as I said, is crashing, on track to have the worth month, the worst month since 2022. So, uh, and there was all these, uh, memos leaked, Jensen Huang saying, "We better slow this fear thing down."

   2. SGScott Galloway34:34

      Mm-hmm.

   3. KSKara Swisher34:35

      Um, but it didn't work. It doesn't, it hasn't worked, I guess. And people are still, um, uh, investors aren't quite as concerned. And by the way, everyone should read this Wall Street Journal story by Jonathan, I think it's Wile, about Meta's accounting tricks, which are really nefarious. It so feels like AOL. It so feels like so much of the stuff. And this is the guy who un- unearthed the Enron problem, so pay attention to him. But go ahead.

   4. SGScott Galloway35:01

      Well, (sighs) so economic history is typically when we have these sorts of, I don't know, manias or bull markets. About the time everyone acknowledges they've gone crazy, they then go insane. (laughs) And that is, uh, uh, so granted the market had a pretty s- swift reversal last week, but these c- these stocks... Alphabet just hit an all-time high. NVIDIA's checked back a little bit. And everyone's talking about how Bitcoin is sort of a canary in the coal mine, but keep in mind, even though Bitcoin has had its worst month, as you pointed out, since 2022, it's back to where it was in April, and it's still up since the president was-

   5. KSKara Swisher35:42

      Yeah.

   6. SGScott Galloway35:42

      ... elected. So, it-

   7. KSKara Swisher35:43

      Yeah. It just had those big runups. That's why.

   8. SGScott Galloway35:46

      You, you, you, you would argue the narrative is doom. What's really happened is just, like, a small check-back. But the narrative has gone from AI boom to AI bubble. Generally, through economic history, or the history of the markets, what you see is when people say, "This is crazy town," it then goes insane. And then about the time everybody says, "Well, maybe we are in a new economic model," and everyone throws in the towel, that's when you get the crash comes. So if you were to look at... I mean, e- even if you were to overlay OpenAI and NVIDIA's valuation, say, against Netscape, it still looks like there's room to run. Having said that, I always like to disclose what I'm doing. I'm gonna wait... I've been paring down my big tech stocks. I'm like, "Look, I, I, I may be wrong, but I know that they're... I know I'm selling at good prices right now." (laughs)

   9. KSKara Swisher36:34

      Right, right.

   10. SGScott Galloway36:35

       Uh-

   11. KSKara Swisher36:35

       You've made take in your earnings, right? Yeah.

   12. SGScott Galloway36:37

       Yeah. But the, the, the, uh, uh, the markets feel very, very nervous right now, but-

   13. KSKara Swisher36:42

       You said fragile is the word you used last week.

   14. SGScott Galloway36:44

       Fragile.

   15. KSKara Swisher36:44

       Fragile.

   16. SGScott Galloway36:44

       But, but what's interesting is-

   17. KSKara Swisher36:46

       Fragile.

   18. SGScott Galloway36:46

       ... what you see a lot of times that... I love this term. The markets climb a wall of worry.

   19. KSKara Swisher36:50

       Yeah.

   20. SGScott Galloway36:50

       It's usually when we're not worried (laughs) that the markets-

   21. KSKara Swisher36:53

       Yeah.

   22. SGScott Galloway36:53

       ... just throw up.

   23. KSKara Swisher36:54

       Yeah.

   24. SGScott Galloway36:55

       Right now, this, to me, again, I wouldn't say it's '97. I think we're in '98 right now. All the smartest people in the room are saying these things are overvalued. And as my friend Barry Routholtz pointed out to me, from '97 to '99-

   25. KSKara Swisher37:07

       Yeah, you said this. Yeah.

   26. SGScott Galloway37:08

       ... the NASDAQ doubled.

   27. KSKara Swisher37:09

       Yeah.

   28. SGScott Galloway37:09

       So-

   29. KSKara Swisher37:10

       Yeah.

   30. SGScott Galloway37:10

       ... uh, I, I don't-
6. 39:18 – 47:41

   Rep. MTG Will Resign

   1. KSKara Swisher39:18

      Marjorie Taylor Greene to kick around anymore, or Trump really does. She announced that she will resign from Congress in January after President Trump called her a traitor for bre- and Marjorie Taylor Brown, I'm not sure what that was, but that was a weird nickname, for breaking with his stance on the Epstein files. Greene said in an announcement video that she refuses to be a battered wife hoping it all goes away and gets better. She dragged out the battered wife metaphor. Let's listen to more of what she said.

   2. MGMarjorie Taylor Greene39:43

      I have too much self-respect and dignity. I love my family way too much, and I do not want my sweet district to have to endure a hurtful and hateful primary against me by the president that we all fought for, only to fight and win my election while Republicans will likely lose the midterms.

   3. KSKara Swisher40:02

      We have one more clip that she said for you, Scott. Let's listen.

   4. MGMarjorie Taylor Greene40:05

      I believe in term limits and do not think Congress should be a lifelong career or an assisted living facility.

   5. KSKara Swisher40:12

      Ah, she's speaking to you. She's speaking sweet-

   6. SGScott Galloway40:14

      There we go.

   7. KSKara Swisher40:14

      ... sweetness to you. Um, President Trump called the announcement great news for the country. Um, uh, e- just t- this morning, there was some reporting on Punchbowl, which I think is highly accurate, about lots of people are gonna depart, lots of Republicans, which are gonna send, uh, possibly Johnson not controlling the House by, by the, by the departures in January, uh, because they can't get those people in place fast enough in these special elections. And so there might be more departures, largely because the White House keeps kicking the shit out of Congress, which of course, at any time they could take control, by the way, Congress. You have a enormous big, uh, power within your ranks, except you're run by, you know, uh, Mike Johnson, who was a toady to Trump, um, s- which he's gonna be a, a footnote in history very soon, I think. Um, what do you think this means in terms of how do you think she handled it? She put out lots of information. Um, a lot of people said it was, uh, you know, uh, it was a strategy. Some people say she's gonna run for president. She says she's, that's nothing, nothing of the sort. Um, other people are talking about how much money she made through stock trading. She started off with 700,000 and now has 25 million. Um, there's all kinds of different things. And of course Jasmine Crockett was like, "Oh, you had a week of President Trump yelling at you and you run? And I've ha- you know, I have a, uh, years of it, and you better suck it up, sister," kind of thing. So there's a lot going on here. Uh, I mean, how do you think she handled this? Talk about it from a brand point of view, if you don't mind.

   8. SGScott Galloway41:42

      Well, I think we're gonna, I think the people we're gonna be most harsh on in history won't be some of these people who were, in my view, wrong and demonstrated really anti-American... uh, just made a series of bad decisions and demonstrated incredibly low character. I think the people that we're most disappointed in are the enablers. Like, when I look at World War II-

   9. KSKara Swisher42:06

      Yeah.

   10. SGScott Galloway42:06

       ... I just think, "How did we turn away that cruise ship of Jews looking for refuge?"

   11. KSKara Swisher42:11

       Yeah.

   12. SGScott Galloway42:11

       How did-

   13. KSKara Swisher42:12

       Agreed.

   14. SGScott Galloway42:12

       ... Europe ignore or how, why did the French so, were so quick to hand over lists of Jews?

   15. KSKara Swisher42:17

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SGScott Galloway42:18

       Uh, like, the enablers.

   17. KSKara Swisher42:20

       Right.

   18. SGScott Galloway42:20

       And, uh, the Republicans here, uh, behind the scenes, as soon as they resign from Congress and go on Bill Maher, find their testicles.

   19. KSKara Swisher42:29

       Yeah.

   20. SGScott Galloway42:30

       And they have enabled this. There's just no getting around it. When Senator Rubio lets, uh, Zelenskyy be, be abused like that, he is enabling the invasion of Europe by a murderous autocrat, which anyone who has any historical context knows that is not right. When we have this type of just incredibly irresponsible fiscal policy, we know that ends poorly, and Republicans have supposedly always been the fiscally responsible ones. When we have extrajudicial killing of people in fishing boats that would take 20 stops to get to Miami with the supposed fentanyl that is nev- that is not produced nor is there any evidence being, of it being in Venezuela, and Republicans have been about stopping these forever. I mean, these people are just enabling.

   21. KSKara Swisher43:17

       Yeah.

   22. SGScott Galloway43:18

       Uh, I- I don't... Are these guys getting, getting blown by the hottest women in the world was long as they're in office? Like, why do they-

   23. KSKara Swisher43:25

       Politicians.

   24. SGScott Galloway43:25

       ... why do they so desperately-

   25. KSKara Swisher43:28

       Mm-hmm.

   26. SGScott Galloway43:28

       ... want to be, want to hold onto their jobs and, and just put aside-

   27. KSKara Swisher43:32

       Yeah.

   28. SGScott Galloway43:32

       ... all sense of character?

   29. KSKara Swisher43:34

       Well, she's smarter than most of them, right?

   30. SGScott Galloway43:35

       Well, th-
7. 47:41 – 51:19

   Eli Lilly Hits $1 Trillion

   1. KSKara Swisher47:41

      Eli Lilly just became the first healthcare company to hit a trillion dollars in market cap powered by its increasing demand for GLP-1 weight loss drugs, Mounjaro and Zepbound. Um, Scott's been talking about this, saying most important thing, the company stock has surged more than 36% this year and a recent deal with the Trump administration to cut drug prices pushed shares even higher. Up next, it plans to seek FDA approval for a GLP-1 pill by the end of the year. All the other companies are doing the same, aiming to bring it to market by the mid-2026. Wall Street expects the pill alone could generate up to $40 billion a year at its peak. Costs will come down for these drugs, um, probably considerably. So, um, as you said, healthcare is a better bet than AI right now, correct?

   2. SGScott Galloway48:21

      I pick a technology of the year every year. '23 and '24, I picked, uh, AI. '25, my technology pick was GLP-1. I think-

   3. KSKara Swisher48:28

      GLP-1.

   4. SGScott Galloway48:28

      ... I, I'll give you a shout-out. I saw your interview with Scott Jennings. Uh, the, the, the guy, the guy looks like the old Scott Jennings is gonna show up and eat him.

   5. KSKara Swisher48:36

      (laughs)

   6. SGScott Galloway48:37

      I saw, I saw ... Who was the old, uh, secretary of state under Trump that he hates now? I saw him-

   7. KSKara Swisher48:43

      Oh, uh, uh, who, which one? Pompeo? Mike Pompeo, yeah.

   8. SGScott Galloway48:47

      I was at a, I was at, uh, one of these Masters of the Universe-

   9. KSKara Swisher48:50

      Yeah.

   10. SGScott Galloway48:50

       ... and I saw that he-

   11. KSKara Swisher48:51

       Yeah, he looked good.

   12. SGScott Galloway48:53

       ... uh, uh, uh, literally, he looks like a different human being.

   13. KSKara Swisher48:56

       He does, yeah.

   14. SGScott Galloway48:58

       Uh, 70% of Amer- (laughs) the one thing Americans share-

   15. KSKara Swisher49:01

       Yeah.

   16. SGScott Galloway49:02

       ... is we're fat.

   17. KSKara Swisher49:03

       Yeah.

   18. SGScott Galloway49:03

       70% of Americans are obese or overweight.

   19. KSKara Swisher49:05

       Yeah.

   20. SGScott Galloway49:06

       Talk to, talk to me about someone who's in AI and who's on GLP-1 and ask them, "What has had a bigger impact on your life?"

   21. KSKara Swisher49:13

       Mm-hmm.

   22. SGScott Galloway49:14

       These things are ag- these things are, are, are ... I think it's the most important technology since GPS.

   23. KSKara Swisher49:19

       I would agree. I, I have to say, in this reporting for the se- Secret CNN documentary, of all the things, and there's lots of things, sleep and health, the onl- the two things, AI and cancer research, people are absolutely thinking this is a critical, the ability to find these answers and drug discovery. But the number one thi- and CRISPR, of course, is another big technology in health. But the absolute n- number one thing, all the doctors? GLP-1s. Every one of them. It's really interesting. Anyway, we have to move on. We could talk more about this, we have a whole show on it.

   24. SGScott Galloway49:45

       But, but, but I'm sorry, but just one, one thing.

   25. KSKara Swisher49:48

       Okay.

   26. SGScott Galloway49:48

       If ... The, the thing, one of the things that really ails us is incremental quality and the thing that's, it presents an existential-

   27. KSKara Swisher49:55

       Yeah.

   28. SGScott Galloway49:55

       ... threat to the market and a real move towards fascism would be an economic shock. It's inspired by the fact we're running out of-... cushion in terms of our deficit being $37 trillion-

   29. KSKara Swisher50:05

       Healthcare.

   30. SGScott Galloway50:05

       ... and the fact we spend $2 trillion or more than we spend. 350 million people spend $13,000 a year on healthcare versus other nations at 6,500. The f- the, the most important, seminal move our government could make right now in terms of a moonshot wouldn't be putting people on Mars or AI weapons. It would be the following. Put out a bid and say, "We are going to buy a, uh, 2 billion worth of doses. 200 million people, 200 million people on, uh, are, are obese or overweight. 1.2 billion doses, six months, and we are going to... whoever gives us the lowest price, and we are going to give GLP-1 into, into... to every rural community, every person that's obese." You wanna see healthcare costs come down?
8. 51:19 – 1:06:17

   Wins and Fails

   1. KSKara Swisher51:19

      Okay, Scott. Wins and Fails. I shall go first.

   2. SGScott Galloway51:21

      You go first.

   3. KSKara Swisher51:22

      My fail, another newly released court filing claims Meta knew its platforms were harming young users but refused to make basic fixes that could have protected kids. Uh, I, I don't know if that's my biggest fail or that Doge no longer exists. We will miss you, big balls. But a failure, an enormous fucking failure f- by all the numbers, and there's several stories. You could go look at them. Just, it cost us money. It created all kinds of havoc. It made Elon richer. It... and who knows what else he got in terms of data, and it was very bad for the American people. A v- a good idea to always cut costs, but this was one big corrupt grift. Uh, a- and goodbye. Good, good riddance. My win is, uh, it's sort of in the same area, where people are sort of coming around to this idea of the tyranny of wealthy people, which is not... I, I mean, super wealthy people. Tina Brown, who I love, just gave an interview. It's something I've talked about a lot, but someone asked her, "What does his rise say about people are feeling about the elite?" They were... he was talking to Zaron, uh, Mamdani. "In the last few years, we have been so bullied by the super rich. There's a sense the rich are the ones who have a voice in every debate, whether it's about academia or the way the nation is run or how we live our lives with the tech revolutions. And people have felt, I think, more and more hopeless about the enormity of the wealth and the impossibility of fighting it. Mamdani has shown how to get your fight back. It's very inspiring. Money doesn't buy everything. All that money went into stopping him, and he still won. And you don't have to like his ideas to be glad for that, and I'm very glad for that." Well done, Tina Brown. Well said.

   4. SGScott Galloway52:51

      Agreed.

   5. KSKara Swisher52:51

      There's... they, they need to shut the fuck up. That's my... that's how I would say it, but she's much more articulate and written.

   6. SGScott Galloway52:56

      Well, they're not going to. What we need is more Americans to be activists and protest-

   7. KSKara Swisher53:01

      Yeah.

   8. SGScott Galloway53:01

      ... and vote for... do the research, vote for-

   9. KSKara Swisher53:04

      Yeah.

   10. SGScott Galloway53:04

       ... whoever you think is best, not who has the most commercials running.

   11. KSKara Swisher53:07

       Yeah. But also, "May I meet you?" That's back to, to Jill Ackman.

   12. SGScott Galloway53:11

       So, it's so funny. I went out. I took m- my doctor friend to Roof Gardens-

   13. KSKara Swisher53:16

       (laughs) Yeah.

   14. SGScott Galloway53:17

       ... which is-

   15. KSKara Swisher53:17

       Yeah.

   16. SGScott Galloway53:17

       ... kind of the hotspot here.

   17. KSKara Swisher53:19

       Right.

   18. SGScott Galloway53:19

       And a bunch of people-

   19. KSKara Swisher53:20

       It's also a different hotspot every time I talk to you.

   20. SGScott Galloway53:22

       Well, I, I'm on the massive Arrested Adolescence tour.

   21. KSKara Swisher53:25

       I thought so.

   22. SGScott Galloway53:25

       It continues.

   23. KSKara Swisher53:26

       Yeah.

   24. SGScott Galloway53:26

       Um, and three different people came up to me, they recognized me and said, said, "May I meet you?" (laughs)

   25. KSKara Swisher53:32

       (laughs)

   26. SGScott Galloway53:33

       And they said, "What do you think of that?" And the honest answer is I think anything that encourages people to meet each other-

   27. KSKara Swisher53:39

       No.

   28. SGScott Galloway53:39

       ... is a good thing. I, I-

   29. KSKara Swisher53:40

       You may not.

   30. SGScott Galloway53:40

       ... have no problem with Bill saying that.

Episode duration: 1:06:18