PivotKara and Scott's AI Video Experiment Will Haunt Your Dreams | Pivot
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
135 min read · 27,241 words- 0:00 – 3:28
Intro
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, no, no.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, my God. (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
No, no, no, no, no.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
They're kissing. Don't do it. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
Hello, Scott. How's it going?
- SGScott Galloway
It's good. I'm, I'm trying to... I've been setting up my home gym, um, I, actually, you know what? I didn't. I'm trying to... I took a week off of alcohol and edibles-
- KSKara Swisher
Uh-huh.
- SGScott Galloway
... because I... And I found this research that is, I find, accurate-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... and it said that if you cut out alcohol and edibles from your life for just, uh, for 21 days or more-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... you lose 60% of your will to live.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh. (laughs) I knew that's where that was going. Oh, my God.
- SGScott Galloway
Also, also, it's been a while. Hold on. Hold on. I'm not stopping there.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, God.
- SGScott Galloway
My in-laws are staying with me.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh. How's that going? You like them.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, they're wonderful.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
It's perfect because they don't speak very good English, so we don't communicate.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm. Ooh, nice.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm convinced that, uh, in-law... Your relationship with your in-laws-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... starts to come off the tracks when you begin communicating. But, uh, something kind of awkward happened over the weekend. Uh-oh. I had left my computer out, and she-
- KSKara Swisher
Is there nudity involved?
- SGScott Galloway
My mother-in-law opened it, and what did she see on my computer?
- KSKara Swisher
No, no. What?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, you can imagine. One guess.
- 3:28 – 17:24
Trump Tariffs and TACO Trade
- KSKara Swisher
But first, uh, Donald Trump's tariff strategy has been dealt a major blow. The US Court of International Trade ruled Wednesday that th- Trump overstepped his authority by using emergency powers to impose sweeping tariffs, in fact, not bypassing Congress. The three-judge panel found the federal law did not grant Trump unbounded authority to tax imports from nearly every country around the world. The White House plans to appeal, and the case is likely going to the Supreme Court. They're working hard over there. Uh, tariffs on steel, aluminum, and a few other sectors are still in place, but they're imposed under a different law. Uh, this is g- going on. And let me just bring in taco trade. Uh, have you heard? You've heard about taco trade. TACO, short for Trump Always Chickens Out, is a new acronym coined by a Financial Times columnist. It describes a pattern where Trump rattles the markets with his tariff threats, only to backpedal a few days later, sending stocks surging. The latest example, Trump vowed 50% tariffs on EU goods last week, hit pause on Sunday after a good call with European Commission president, and when the markets reopened Tuesday, the Dow jumped over 700 points and the S&P 500 saw its biggest gain in weeks. Uh, Trump doesn't like the taco terminology, mostly because (laughs) he probably doesn't... Well, tacos. Remember that whole thing with tacos he had going? His pissiness was on full display when asked about it on Wednesday. Let's listen.
- NANarrator
Oh, isn't that nice? Chickening out. I've never heard that. You mean because I reduced China from 145% that I set down to 100 and then down to another number, and I said, "You have to open up your whole country," and because, uh, I, I gave the European Union a 50% tax, uh, tariff and they called up and they said, "Please, let's meet right now. Please, let's meet right now." And I said, "Okay, I'll give you till July 9." I actually asked them, I said, "What's the date?" Because they weren't willing to meet. And after I did what I did, they said, "We'll meet anytime you want," and we have an end date of July 9th. You call that chickening out?
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, man, is he sensitive about that taco trade. So talk about the two things, the, the court ruling and then this taco trade, the idea that his unpredictability has become predictable.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I just have an adjacent thought, and the first is that there's a lot of im- uh, a sort of, quote unquote, "conspiracy theory" from the right that there was this gigantic cover-up of Biden's cognitive decline. First off, if it was a cover-up, it was the worst cover-up in history. They let him go debate and put his cognitive decline on full display. But it's no... It was no more a cover-up than the cover-up...... of Trump's cognitive decline right now. Did you see his speech-
- KSKara Swisher
I-
- SGScott Galloway
... at West Point?
- KSKara Swisher
I agree. I agree. I was really struck by it.
- SGScott Galloway
So, is, is this a cover-up? The guy is rambling about nonsense. So, are we in the-
- KSKara Swisher
Trophy wives.
- SGScott Galloway
... are we in the midst of-
- KSKara Swisher
Sounded like one you might do.
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs) .
- KSKara Swisher
But go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Are we in the midst of a cover-up? Anyways, the (sighs) in terms of the taco trade, Trump, since the inauguration, Trump Administration officials have announced new or revised tariff policies more than 50 times. And I'm having trouble finding one deal. Uh, I mean, he talks about deals. Tal- announced a deal with the UK, but nothing was signed. It was a, it was an agreement to have further discussions. I- I don't-
- KSKara Swisher
Right. He's saying it's helping them come to the table by his crazy moves, his- his wave or something, whatever he calls it.
- SGScott Galloway
Th- this is how terrible a businessperson-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
... and negotiator Trump is.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Trump puts a policy, a tariff of 145%, and then he admits himself, "Well, that was kinda high," and then he lowers it to 30 'cause the markets, the markets throw up. So, he's, essentially, if he was a poker player, he shows up to the table with all this bravado and swagger, he goes all in, and then before he even sees what the other players say or do, he goes, "I fold. I fold." He negotiates against himself, and nobody takes him seriously. But here's the real story, in my view. This is nothing but a weapon of insider trading. And that is, he can create volatility, he can take markets up for some of their biggest gains in history when he takes these ridiculous trades off the table, he can take markets down, and the people around him are trading stocks like fucking crazy. Including, you're gonna find that some of his hedge fund buddies that he speaks to or tucks them into bed at night, s- some of whom we talk a lot about, are gonna vastly outperform the index.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, and even- even representatives Marjorie Taylor Greene, there was a whole bunch of them trading.
- SGScott Galloway
Okay. Let's talk about this. Let, uh, the fish rots from the head.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
The nation's top cop is the attorney general.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, Pam Bondi.
- SGScott Galloway
Pam Bondi, on April the 2nd, sold one- somewhere between one and five million in Trump Media stock. Why April 2nd? That was the same day the Liberation Day tariffs were announced. So, we have the person supposedly ensuring the markets have rule of fair play is trading stocks the day her boss announces tariffs that will take the markets down. She sells a ton of stocks. And it is everywhere. Uh, uh, their state department officials, um, Michael Plath, staff director in Congress, uh, sold around escalating. They- these, they are trading in and out of the market based on who knows what when. Huge spike in options volume right before he makes these announcements, which means that people know something. And people hear this. I just want to try and connect the dots here. People hear this and go, "Okay, there's always been grift. Speaker Pelosi, uh, Speaker Amber Jones Pelosi, there's always been grift. So- so if some people are getting richer, fine." What people fail to make the connection is the following, is that when you buy same-day options because you know he's about to reduce the tariffs and the markets are about to scream up, somebody is on the other side of the trade that doesn't have that insider information that is selling that person that option and is going to get taken to the laundry, who's going to lose a shit ton of money. And the reason why off a 27 trillion dollar economy we have a 50 trillion dollar market cap stock market, which gives companies the ability to raise money, it gives people the chance to save money for their retirements, it gives people incredible compensation upside if they get options, the reason why we have such incredibly deep pools of capital to create prosperity and risk aggressiveness, we have five million dollars in risk capital for every startup, Europe has one million, is because people believe there's a rule of fair play and fair trade. Now, let's look at, let's look at Russia. Russia is one t- I'm sorry, one fourteenth the size of our economy, two trillion to about 28 trillion. The total value of the Russian stock market is 80 billion dollars because people don't trust it. People are like, "Unless you know Putin, you don't know what's gonna happen," and there's so much insider trading and kleptocracy that the markets don't have any trust. So, what do you have? You have essentially, even on a size adjusted basis, our stock market is 70 times the value of the Russian stock market, even ramping it up to- to adjust it for market, I'm sorry, adjust it for the difference in the size of the economy. So, when a bunch of people think, "I lost money, and I'm not on the inside. I'm not going to participate in the markets."
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I agree. This is, that's a really, uh, fantastic take, actually. I really, uh, uh, what's going on here. He's also doing it because he doesn't have a plan at the same time, and people are, either he is in on the grift, right? Or he's so dumb and a bad businessperson, they're playing him and under-
- SGScott Galloway
Rewarding his allies.
- KSKara Swisher
... standing. They're, he's rewarding his allies and also doing what he does, which is run businesses right into the ground, which is his, that seems to be the consens- consistent part of his business career, is to run businesses into the ground in some fashion with these sort of capricious things. And the fact that he gets so angry about it was really revelatory. It's like, he- he knows exactly what he's doing. He's trying to put it off. A- and I, it's really depressing when someone like Scott Besson says, "Oh, acting crazy is a strategy." I'm like, "No, it's not." It's not a st- I mean, maybe once, but you can't do it over and over and over again. And that's what he's doing. And so Europeans, he's like, "Oh, they came to the table because I made that threat." I'm like, "They probably waited until you did this, and then they're like, 'Okay, now time to come to the table.'" Um, but they are long, they are a long s-... gaming him so badly. It's, it's really an astonishing thing, and he deserves every single insult he gets about how he's conducting these. W- with the court thing, how do you feel? Like, they just are just... All the courts, 96% of courts are against Donald Trump on all these rulings, not just the tariff ones, but all of them, 96%.
- SGScott Galloway
Okay, I'll talk about the courts, and then I wanna give you s- just some more data here-
- 17:24 – 29:55
Elon’s DOGE Farewell
- KSKara Swisher
And someone who understands the griftiness of it, Elon Musk, has talked about it, is officially... He's not using the term grift, but he's talking about the problem with deficits and t- tariffs. Um, Elon Musk is officially an ex-especial government employee posting on his social platform that the Doge mission will only strengthen over time, which means it will not. It's over. Um, must thank Trump for the opportunity to reduce wasteful spending, but only after throwing some shade at his former boss. Here's what he told CBS News. By the way, the guy who hates old media is fucking all over old media these days. Let's go.
- NANarrator
You know, I was like, uh, disappointed to see the massive spending bill, frankly, uh, which increases the budget deficit, not just decrease it, and undermines the work that the Doge team is doing. I think a bill can be, can be, can be big or it can be beautiful. (laughs) But I don't know if it can be both.
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs) ... my close look at you.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, yucking it up with, uh, Elon. He's not, uh, the only one out there. Doe spokesman Katie Miller is following him. For those who don't know, she's married to White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller. By the way, there is a lot of very funny memes about this on the internet, but I'll let you go there and find out what they're insinuating. Um, Elon, meanwhile, has ordered himself back into the offices of X, SpaceX and Neuralink, with mixed results. The SpaceX Starship system exploded in a Tuesday test. It went further, but it's still ... This is the third failed launch in a row, um, that did go further. Uh, these are, this is what he does a, a lot of the time. X crashed twice in one week, which Musk attributed to f- uh, failover, redundancy, whatever that is, issues that need to be addressed. On the bright side, Musk says Tesla's been testing Robotaxi in the streets of Austin with no incidents and promises delivery to customers next month. Meanwhile, Waymo does millions of these, uh, all the time. And Neuralink just raised $600 million at a $9 billion valuation, which is, hmm, good for him. Um, so couple of things. One is, uh, they have wiped out ... They're sending up a r- uh, I think it's a rescission package of just $9 billion from, uh, from Doge cuts that they may try to fix, but that's $9 billion in our multi-trillion dollar promise that, uh, Musk made to us. Um, I think he's been used as a chump for, by Trump in a lot of ways, sort of a hand-wavy thing, and then Trump turns around and, and, and ruins the whole thing through a deficit. And I think, uh, Musk does understand that the deficit and the tariffs are a real problem. Uh, whether he can bring back his businesses, that's an open question. He's certainly talented. Uh, your thoughts, Scott?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, I'm gl- I'm glad you brought it up, because it, uh, uh, it, it was a good week in the sense that Neuralink, which creates diversification for him, raised money at a nine ... I thought it was seven, but you're saying it's nine billion. That's incredible, and, and, and also a testament to his genius and vision to do things like that. Uh, we'll see how it, it pans out. But yeah, I don't ... You know, m- i- i- if you ... The two seminal impacts of Doge are the following. It has almost no impact on the budget, because if you look at it, essentially, wha- what's happened here is he's also cut, um, I think it's, uh, a d- a ton of staff at the IRS, and the estimates are that that will inh- reduce their ability to collect what would have been another $400 billion in revenue. So, give him his word that it's 150 million in savings. That means that Doge is essentially taking the deficit up another quarter of a trillion dollars a year.
- KSKara Swisher
Nobody believes that 150 number, by the way. Most people think it's about 10 million.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, I like when Mitch McConnell believes that the chocolate and peanut butter of our power around the world is a combination of hard and soft power. And he's essentially gutted our soft power, uh, by taking, m- uh ... I mean, that $75 million in US aid was just ... When there's genocide in a nation, a bunch of people show up and try to hold people accountable such that it doesn't happen again, and a lot of those people are Americans. When there is a war-torn ravaged village town in Ukraine, a soup kitchen gets popped up, and a lot of those people are Americans. And that just makes people think, "Oh, they're good guys."
- KSKara Swisher
It's mostly Jose Andres, but now ... It's not the government, it's Jose Andres, but go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, but we do, w- we do have all sorts of hospitals around the world-
- KSKara Swisher
We do.
- SGScott Galloway
... that, that help kids with vaccines, and ... I mean, there's just a ton of stuff that-
- KSKara Swisher
It's the old Hershey Bar American GI story, right?
- SGScott Galloway
100%.
- KSKara Swisher
This idea. (laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
100%, and that will have a long-term impact on our brand. Uh, h- Doge is cutting more than it's ... Or it's, it's gonna end up costing us more than it saves, and again, I go back to the same thing, Kara. It did its job. It was a, it was a distraction from this administration's decision to blow up the deficit to give a tax cut to you and me.
- KSKara Swisher
The grift, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs) I mean-
- KSKara Swisher
The grift, the grift.
- SGScott Galloway
That, that's what Democrats should be focusing on right now.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I mean, uh, it's, it's been a failure for him. Also, at first it sort of raised his wealth s- substantively, and it certainly got the regulators off his back, which was one of his goals, absolutely. It got him some t- Mars stuff that he wants, allegedly, and there ... You know, the Mars money. So he got his Mars money, he got some regulators off, he lost a lot of money in the, in his, uh, i- in terms of his, in terms of Tesla, and also his personal brand is decimated, I think. Uh, he certainly could get it back, I suppose, but he's certainly done ... Not m- draped himself in glory in this effort at all. He looks ... H- you know, one of the things about these t- tech people is they look a little godlike, and now he looks like he has feet of clay, right? And you've seen parts of him that are a nuisance and irritating and weird. Um, so it hasn't been... You know, this is stuff a lot of us who spent time with him have seen. You know, his b-cl- b- like telling jokes like that and laughing at his own jokes and stuff like that. He seems odd and strange. Um, and so I, uh, I, I just feel like, uh, this has not been a plus for Elon Musk. He may bring it back, he may do other things. The question is whether he's gonna return to politics or if he's had it with them. It felt like he a little bit kinda he had it. He kind of has enough of this and he realized he got, he got taken by the world's most adept con man, which is Donald Trump.
- SGScott Galloway
99.9% of the time, if you're on a board or you have a temptation to take a political stand as a corporation, the answer is no, you don't do it. And not only that, he not only bet one way. He went into politics, which is sort of a no-no. He bet the wrong way, 'cause three quarters of the people that he's endeared himself to by taking a red pill stand, three quarters of them say they would never buy an EV. So, it, it's just very unusual that he would decide to go into politics in a way that alienates his core market.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, maybe it's some psychological problem he has. "Please hate me, hate me, please hate me." I don't know. It was, it's very strange. We'll see if he can recover. He's certainly a talented businessperson. He may have gotten data and information that he didn't have before. Uh, who knows? I think that needs to be investigated and not ju- not just me but Steve Bannon does. What exactly did they download? Where is the data? What, what happened to it? I think there needs to be, at some point, a real look at what they did, what Do- Doge has done, and we'll see if they continue. But without the engine of, of, and the threat of Elon Musk, I don't think it's going anywhere. They will just, they will just, they will just smother it.
- SGScott Galloway
But I always feel, I always feel a need to try and bring-I always feel the need to try and bring some semblance of balance around Musk. Uh, I was- I've thought for a long time, Waymo's just so far ahead, they'll never be able to catch them. And I did speak to an analyst around Tesla, and said Tesla does have some very real advantages around autonomous. And that is, they have more data because they have a huge ... you know, they have hundreds of thousands of cars that have been in the market for a while, and all of that is great data. And also, uh, the average cost of a Waymo car is, uh, almost a quarter of a million dollars.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, it's Jaguar.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, it's outfitting it. It's just really expensive. And they say that the Tesla autonomous driving vehicle is gonna be substantially less expensive. So I haven't con-
- KSKara Swisher
Except that they may be sacrificing safety for that. There's all these debates over whether they have enough points of failure. And look, he doesn't ... he takes them off. This guy likes to w- go commando on a lot of stuff, you know?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, you bring up an interesting point, 'cause a lot of people say regardless of what has happened in the markets or the perception of his brand ... the Tesla brand's gone from the eighth most revered brand to the 93rd.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I don't think I've ever seen a destruction like that. I don't even think about what happened to Exxon when th- with the Valdees. But you bring up an interesting point, and that is a lot of people say, "Well, he's playing the long game," because all of the inspectors and all of the lawsuits that were getting in the way of his regulation around autonomous or going after him for lawsuits for whatever, have all just disappeared. So, it still might have been ... He might, he might in fact be playing chess, you know? Who knows?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, and i- his case, uh, uh, opposed to Donald Trump who is eating the pieces, Musk does. That said, I would not get in a Tesla right now. I think they're, they, they don't have as many points of failure. You know what I mean? He doesn't care about safety as much as others. And I just don't ... Uh, I, I've talked to a lot of experts about how they're putting them out there, and they're just ... I would rather have an extraordinarily safe ... Eventually it'll be looser, but not today, and I don't, I just don't trust them.
- 29:55 – 35:12
Trump vs. Harvard
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, we're back. I know you don't think this is important, but I do actually. The feud betw- And I think it's a real feud, the feud between Donald Trump, uh, and Harvard doesn't appear to be wrapping up anytime soon.Trump now says the school should cap international student enrollment at 15%. What is he telling people what to do? This follows last week's legal fight where a judge temporarily blocked the White House from revoking Harvard's ability to enroll in- international students. Uh, Trump is also moving to cancel remaining federal contracts with Harvard. It's not just Harvard, the administration is now considering social media vetting for all foreign students, so free speech, hello. And is halting student visa interviews in the meantime. Secretary Marco Rubio, what a choad he's become, also says the US will aggressively work to revoke the visas of Chinese students. Ah, crazy. He's also accusing Russian president, Putin, of playing with fire after Russia recently ramped up attacks on Ukraine, launching its largest drone and missile attack of the war so far. Uh, in the post on Truth Social, Trump also exclaimed that Putin has gone completely crazy. But despite, uh, floating sanctions of Russia over the weekend, Trump now says he's holding off because he thinks, taco, he's close to a deal and doesn't want to screw it up. Taco. Trump said, uh, he was gonna resolve this conflict on day one, it's not day one anymore, and he bragged about his relationship with Putin, so that's something. And lastly, uh, it's not the only one, he's still got Tim Cook in his tr- crosshairs of Apple, threatening a 25% tariffs on iPhones made outside the US. The move f- comes in the wake of Cook reportedly buffing the White House's invitation to join Trump on his recent Middle East trip that all the others went along on, all the other tech moguls. There is also a Financial Times report that Apple contractor, Foxconn, is preparing to spend $1.5 billion on a new plant in India. And problems for Apple are piling up in addition to these tariffs. Cook is also jugl- uh, juggling legal battles, global regulators, and a rising AI competition. Um, there's a book out about, uh, by, uh, Patrick, I think it's Matt Meyer, talking about how much money-
- SGScott Galloway
McGehee.
- KSKara Swisher
... y- yes.
- SGScott Galloway
I had him on the pod.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, uh, spending in, uh, i- h- has, has created the Chinese, mm, tech sector essentially, they train them up. So let's start with all these things. I know you think they're distractions, but I think he's quite committed to this Harvard thing. E- either he didn't get in or something is going on here, but he seems obsessed with controlling the amount of, uh, of, uh, foreign students that enter the United States too, and Harvard is his proxy for doing that at this moment.
- SGScott Galloway
So, look, if you look at, eh, there's few, there's few people that have added more economic value than graduates, foreign graduates of our, uh, elite institutions. S- 70% of graduate students in AI research in U- in the US are international students, and over half of America's startup companies valued at least $1 billion, so over half of our unicorns have at least one immigrant founder. So let's even go beyond that. Let's just go short term. I have said, uh, the term we should use for international students is they're our cash cows. They pay full rate, they're not eligible for a lot of financial aid, unless they're PhD students who are the brightest people in the world who we bring in and we actually pay. I was, on the first day of class, at the first day of class at NYU, at business school, I say, "Get to know the international students 'cause they're real, they're rich kids." They're the richest kids in El Salvador and Brazil, get to know them. They like to party, they're fun, and they're really rich. And when you go and hang out in Brazil, you wanna know them.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
By the way, America does a small number of things (clears throat) really well.
- KSKara Swisher
Uh-huh.
- SGScott Galloway
Hands down, we're the best in tech and software. I don't even know what the export value- volume is of that. I tried to figure it out this morning, I couldn't figure it out. We make the best weapons in the world. We sell about 300 billion, 350 billion, about a third of a trillion dollars, we export weapons around the world, right? Violence and death are fantastic businesses for us, or the ability to deliver them, and we have the best military in- industrial complex in the world. We make the best media in the world. And we ship a- we, the total export volume or business of our movies and TV, so all the money we make from Fantastic Four and, you know, uh, Frozen and Big Bang Theory and The White Lotus, that is, we get $40 billion in mon- in, uh, revenue from exporting our TV shows and our movie. We get $43 billion from the tuition and the economic value of international students who come here to buy our education. So US education is really a bigger US export than movies or TV shows. W- and, and if you wanna raise tuition on domestic students, just take away the full freight high margin cash flow of international students. I'm not even talking about the brain drain.
- KSKara Swisher
Right, the money we get from them.
- SGScott Galloway
It's (sighs) w- we make so much coin from international-
- KSKara Swisher
Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
... students because why? It's the ultimate luxury item. What's the ultimate signal of your success if you live in China or South Korea-
- KSKara Swisher
Going to Harvard.
- SGScott Galloway
... or Singapore? Your kid gets in and attends an elite American university.
- KSKara Swisher
Going to Harvard. So, so-
- SGScott Galloway
Of the 100 best brands, we own like 70 or 80 of them.
- KSKara Swisher
So it's great for his... Why is he doing the Harvard thing and then Russia next? Go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
I think
- 35:12 – 37:06
Trump vs. Putin
- SGScott Galloway
Russia just tickles the sens- uh, his sensors. I think his, his, uh, a lot of his far right supporters love this. And it, again, it-
- KSKara Swisher
Why attack Putin and then dro- come back on it? 'Cause he's being played by Putin.
- SGScott Galloway
I, I don't, I don't know what he is thinking on the... I mean, the, the, you wanna talk about someone who makes absolutely no sense, you know, "Putin's bombing cities. I don't like what he's doing. He's sending missiles into city." Okay, you realize he's been doing that for two and a half years, right?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Nothing, noth- I don't know if he got personally incensed or w- I don't know what's going on there. It's, it's a sclerotic, impossible... And Marco Rubio has to be the clown behind this elephant cleaning up his shit, trying to make some sort of sense-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... of our nonsensical foreign policy.
- KSKara Swisher
He's just, he's being played. He's be- I think it occurs to him and he's mentioned it, "Maybe he's been playing me." Yes, he has, sir, um, been playing him. I think, look, it, the, the, for Russia right now, the war is its economy. It's now, i- it's not gonna pull very quickly away from it 'cause they don't got nothing else, and they got this war. And H- P- Putin has created Russia as...... as a military economy now, um, with this war, and he hasn't won. And so they're in a, a world of hurt to get out of this and create a dynamic society. And so, war is their best choice right now in a lot of ways. So, not gonna be easy for them to, to pull themselves out of this situation. Um-
- SGScott Galloway
Putin, Putin's life depends on it.
- KSKara Swisher
Depends on it. Depends on it.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, we, we think that he has total control. There's a lot of other people.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
If, if Putin, if Putin loses face in Ukraine, he, we're gonna find out, he's gonna fall out of a window.
- KSKara Swisher
He cannot not win, and the economy is now based on it. And Trump does, is being played like a, like a fiddle. It's just like... And this going back and forth publicly is so embarrassing. Same thing, it's the same thing as the tariffs, it's the same stupidity that got us Trump Steaks or the casinos in, in... He's just not very good at business.
- 37:06 – 44:41
Trump vs. Tim Cook
- KSKara Swisher
Um, uh, the Cook one is really particularly strange, um, and it all is about feelings. It's all about feels, it feels like. Um, he has a point that Tim, that, that, that Apple has created a very robust technology economy in China over the many, many years, 50 billion, something like that, um, and not in the United States. But there were reasons for, for them doing that, obviously, to save money, to, to do it at a cheaper amount. What do you, where do you think Apple is at this moment? On the outs, for sure.
- SGScott Galloway
It's so fascinating. You referenced that book by, I think it's Patrick McGee, and he really opened my eyes. So Apple has upskilled and trained 25 million Chinese. That's amazing. Think about that. They've upskilled the population of California, and, uh, Patrick's thesis, and I thought it was a fascinating one, is that essentially, Apple's investment and upskilling of their tech sector has given rise to Xiaomi and Huawei, basically that the Chinese who are very smart and play the, play the long game have an IP flow that is one way. At the same time, now that Cook is trying to move manufacturing to China, I'm sorry, from China to India, China is getting in the way of that flow and not issuing visas to Chinese who Apple, Chinese employees who Apple wants to send to India to set up manufacturing capacity there. Also, the notion that I said I, I use that stat that that analyst used, I think it was Dan Ives, that a phone produced in the US would be $3,500. And he said, "It might as well be a million. We're not capable of it." There are 1,000 parts in every iPhone. They make a million phones a day. So that's a billion distinct parts from hundreds of different sources that we'd have to coordinate," and he said, "it, I generally, I believe now, it would, it was easier for Oppenheimer and the Army and these universities to get to splitting the atom than it would be for us to get to producing all of the iPhones."
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. So what-
- SGScott Galloway
We just couldn't do it.
- KSKara Swisher
So what, what is happening with it? What, what, how will this affect... You know, they have their, their, they have their legal issues, of course, with the government right now, in terms of cases, and all kinds of stuff, but this falling out. I mean, he, this appeasement m- that Tim did, I, I never thought would work. There's no appeasing Trump. There's no appeasing this guy. He's, he's endlessly thirsty. And f- and the minute he didn't... I, I think I did talk to s- to Maggie Haberman over, uh, uh, in my podcast this weekend. He was genuinely angry that Tim didn't go, like genuinely angry. It's strange.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, he takes these slides personally-
- KSKara Swisher
He does.
- SGScott Galloway
... but the market, the market is starting to respond to the taco trade, and that is-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... the juice is coming out of it.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Because if you look at Apple-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... I mean, if he did what he said he's gonna do, it would seriously diminish the most profitable product in history, and Apple stock would take a pretty big hit. Apple's off... (laughs) I mean, it's down 15% in the last six months, but that's off an enormous high, and it's still, it's still up, it's still up in the last 12 months.
- KSKara Swisher
What would you do if you were Tim?
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, be nice, stay out of his way, and, and put out fake press releases that says, that says, "Oh, we're investing in a, you know, because of the great work of President Trump..." It depen- d- d- does, does Tim wanna be totally focused on shareholder value or on the rights afforded him as an American? W- who, I mean, it depends who you're calling on. If it's calling on his fiduciary obligation to shareholders, he should just kiss his ass, put out a bunch of fake, faux press releases-
- KSKara Swisher
And wait for the midterms.
- SGScott Galloway
... stay out of his way, and what do you know? Trump will move on to the next red dot that angers him-
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
... and, and-
- KSKara Swisher
It's like a cat.
- SGScott Galloway
... the cult of iOS will be fine.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
If Tim Cook recognizes that the reason I'm a billionaire, the reason why, if I want to marry a woman or a man, I can do that, because America has had the foresight and the rule of law to afford to give people rights, or if I want to continue to access the deepest pools of capital in the world, if I wanna have a, a society where I am fairly safe, if I wanna have a society where, uh, someone can't wake up and come take all my shit just because they don't like who I am-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
... then he should, in my view, take a stand-
- KSKara Swisher
He won't.
- SGScott Galloway
... and say, "This is an American company. What is going on here is, is un-American." Nobody has done that. I don't wanna put that pressure on Tim Cook 'cause nobody has done that. He is going to be a billionaire the rest of his life. The question is, at the end of his life, does he wanna (laughs) be known as an American hero? And most of these CEOs, and I understand it, have decided, "My job is just to stay out of the angry child's way until he gets mad at somebody else and go about my business."
- KSKara Swisher
Y- you know who could do that? An owner of a company, a Zuckerberg, or someone who has full control is the only one who can do that, is the only one who, who has the, who has the ability. Tim is not the owner of Apple. The shareholders are, right? And so, it's gotta be that gu- whoever that guy is. There's- Zuckerberg controls his company. Very few, uh, companies are controlled. I guess Snapchat, nobody cares.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, it's ve- it'd be very hard for Apple to all of a sudden get high and mighty about a, a American patriotism when they've essentially outsourced their entire supply chain to China and upscaled China. I'm just kidding. The company that has the ripest opportunity here-
- 44:41 – 51:20
Trump’s Crypto Romance
- SGScott Galloway
Scott, we're back. Tr- uh, President Trump's romance with cryptocurrency is getting more serious. Earlier this week, the administration killed Biden-era guidance against using crypto in 401 (k) plans. Oh my fucking God. Trump media and technology group, the parent company of Truth Social, announced it's raising $2.5 billion to invest in Bitcoin, a Michael Saylor move. And listen to what J.D. Vance told a crowd in a keynote address at Bitcoin 2025 conference.
- NANarrator
I'm here today to say loud and clear, with President Trump, crypto finally has a champion and an ally in the White House. (crowd cheering) In our administration, we understand the full potential of the digital assets industry, not just as an investment, not just as a flashy technology, but as a symbol and driver of personal liberty for all our citizens.
- SGScott Galloway
Also grift, he left out grift. The president's crypto holdings now reportedly represent around 40% of his net worth, or approximately $2.9 billion. Scott, you had a rant where you called the crypto dealings, uh, uh, where you called the crypto dealings in Trump's first 100 days, "The greatest grift in our history of our economy," and now it is a divisive issue for Democrats. Some want to support the GENIUS Act, which regulates Stablecoin. Others say it supports Trump's grift. Uh, what do they do here? Public companies are leaning into crypto as well, not just Truth Social. There are reportedly 114 publicly listed companies that own Bitcoin, up from 89 at the beginning of April. Um, uh, what do you think about also the reports that big US banks are having internal discussions about expanding into cryptocurrencies? Look, he, he... They're smart. One of, one of the genius moves of the Trump campaign was recognizing that this was not gonna be a referendum on women's rights. It was a referendum on struggling young men. I'd still hold to that, and I think the evidence is everywhere. That's, that's who showed up, was, was young men and the people worried about them that swung this election in terms of the people who pivoted hardest from blue to red. And the easiest way to signal that was to go Joe Rogan, embrace Musk, and also really embrace crypto, which has this almost like, you know, testosterone smell to it. Mm-hmm. Ew. Ew. And... Testo- What is testosterone smell, and is that your perfume? I don't know what it smells like. Gross. I'll tell you later when I inject it in my ass, but- Uh, yeah, okay. Actually, I don't think it has a smell. I don't think it has a smell. I don't want to think about that. Go ahead. Smells like victory in the morning. Okay. All right. (laughs) Anyways. That's right. Uh, uh, I think they're smart to embrace the- We should have scratch and sniff on this podcast. Go ahead. Sorry. I think they're smart to embrace their crypto community. I think financial services innovation is a good idea. I, you know, fine. I- I'm a no-coiner. I was on the board of a company that was a har- you know, the leading hardware wallet. It feels to me that the Democrats screwed up by not at least being more clear about what the regulation is so people could actually do something with it, and, and I think Trump has leveraged beautifully the crypto community, and also it's the perfect vehicle for a grift because there's no records. I mean, people say you can track it, but I don't... I'm- you know, my sense is, when a guy launches a meme coin (laughs) the Friday before his inauguration and runs to 70 billion, and then, and now it's, like I said, he's made a billion dollars a month since he's had this thing, I think they're smart to embrace it. I also think a lot of, or, you know, small and medium-sized investors are probably gonna lose a lot of money, and what I tell people is if you want to take two, three, 5% of your net worth and put in- and put it in Bitcoin, I wouldn't do any of these other coins. There is a genius to Bitcoin because it has established a credible sense of scarcity 'cause people do believe the technology will result and that they will stop mining at 21 million coins. I do think that's actually a very elegant way of creating a currency that has more veracity than a fiat currency, which everyone has failed at throughout history. The other coins I see as just, like, that's just Vegas, but I think he's smart to embrace the community. I think it's working for them.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I think it has to become something more than just, uh, like a speculative instrument. Like, that it's, that it's useful in some fashion. And there's all kinds of companies working at that. The, for Trump, it's a, it's a ga- it's a casino. This is a casino kind of mentality that he's got around it. Um, and, and a fee, uh, getting fees. Most of the money he's made has been in fees of the transactions.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, the current income.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
They made over $300 million in fees so far.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Right, yeah. And so, uh, and then the value of it is the... and it's not traceable in some ways. And so, it's a perfect sort of bribery, grift/scam kind of thing, which he's very familiar with. Um, that said, you're right. The Biden administration didn't really lean in. They had, uh, the SEC head who was openly hostile. I think these people got activated politically, and they should've been because they needed to defend themselves, and they, they took out Sherrod Brown in Ohio, for sure. Like, they, they, they targeted a lot of things. And so, they really got organized in ways that, uh, that Trump helped facilitate and were able to do that, and I think they will remain political. Um, but at some point though, there has to be safety around it. If you put a lot of Bitcoin in these 401Ks and they get destroyed, uh, through scammery, um, it's gonna be a real problem.
- SGScott Galloway
But, but Bitcoin is... or crypto just going meta is a bit of a, of a... Whenever you have li- these levels of income inequality, you have war, famine, revolution. I think it's a form of revolution 'cause I think young people decided if you're gonna continue to bail out the market so that the incumbents stay wealthy and I never get disruption, I can never buy a house or stocks on sale like you guys have gotten to do time after time every seven years with a recession, I'm gonna create my own asset class. And I get it. I, you know, I can, I can empathize and understand it. It's like, great, Scott, you had your time in the sun to buy Netflix at 11 bucks a share, but now that you and your other seniors voting yourself more money and using my credit card to bail your ass out every time the economy gets rough and I have an opportunity to buy in inexpensively, fuck that. I'm not gonna play your game. I'm gonna invent my own asset class.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, and they have become very politicized. And so it's up to the Democrats to not be com- ju- y- don't i- i- th- i- n- the don't cut your nose to spite your face kind of thing, I think is at play here. Trump is grifting this thing, but you can't not lean into it just 'cause he's doing that. You come after him later if you have to. But you can't... A lot of them are, "We can't do it because Trump will grift more." He's gonna grift no matter what. No matter what, he will, he will find a way to grift. And we can't make policy based on... Uh, you, you need to lean into this, Democrats, in a way that's safe and good for consumers and good for young people, and not worry about the Trump part until later. That's my feeling. Anyway, one more quick break. When we come back, uh, is Google's new AI video tool a studio killer?
- 51:20 – 1:01:40
Google’s AI Video Generator
- KSKara Swisher
A story we didn't get to chat about last week is Google's launch of VO3, which is a video generator that creates full a- video with audio. Its main competition is OpenAI's Sora, but the key distinction is VO3 is supposed to be able to incorporate audio. Uh, that includes dialogue between characters as well as animal sounds. The main buzz about it on the internet as well, will this replace movie studios? Some of the stuff is pretty impressive to look at. And will this flood the news media with misinformation? Oddly enough, I interviewed Jesse Armstrong, who is the creator of Succession, for his new movie that's coming out this week called Mountain Head, and this is one of the plot points, uh, in it, uh, is a, is a, is a social media company with a sort of a, a Musk- Musk/Zuckerberg character w- uh, who runs a company called Tram that floods, uh, uh, puts out tools like this and causes worldwide destruction. Um, in any case, uh, you talked a lot about, uh, th- this during the writer's strike and, uh, we're gonna talk a little bit about it by stuff that we made too, but quick thoughts?
- SGScott Galloway
I think it goes after commercials first and quick hits where if you're selling stuff on Facebook or Shopify and you need just a 30-second kind of competent, elegant-looking... I, I think it'll start there. It'll start moving its way up. I just see it similar to what CGI did in terms of reducing the cost of special effects. It'll start to move its way up. It'll just lower the cost of the means of production. It'll be especially hard on certain people. But I still think as someone who has a, you know, a limited but increasing amount of exposure to the industry, i- the way I see it is we're o- we outsource their shitty manufacturing jobs overseas, but the real value add and the higher paying jobs are in design, distribution, product marketing, all that good stuff back here. I think this is kind of the same thing, and that is I don't want to say the low value work, but things like, you know, lighting and sound and extras. You know, the people that y- Tom Cruise is gonna be very aggressive and smart about protecting his own IP and his own, his own likeness. The, what I have seen with... And we talked about this before. Whenever I write, I use, I use AI to brainstorm and to, when I say I don't like this paragraph, what additional data could be out there. But when I try and write stuff with just AI, it's very anodyne. It lacks all sex appeal. It's all chip, no salsa. I still think that you're gonna have-
- KSKara Swisher
For the boring stuff, it works, for press releases, things like that. Like, commercials are showing up. I think you're absolutely right. I think... This is something I discussed with Armstrong, who's just a brilliant person. He was like, "I'm not really sure what to think. I've seen some of this and it's very impressive." I'm like, "But it's not you, Jesse Armstrong." Like, you can't make... You, you, you d- for the, for the untalented, it will be a problem. For... Or the stuff that's anodyne, as you said, it will be a problem. And, and there's a lot of people like that, right? There's a lot of people who make sort of the boring scut work that are going out. Okay, now for our personal, uh, experience on, on doing this. Uh, we had our video producer, Kevin, mess around with it, and he said he's not too worried about his job just yet. Uh, we just hired him. I hope not. Here are his initial findings. Uh, VO3 automatically puts makeup on Kara but not Scott. It crashed and failed to generate video an aggravating number of times, and people are complaining online, uh, about its audio failures as well. What VO3 can do frighteningly well is generate videos of fake people. For example, this AI newscast we asked it to create.
- NANarrator
Scott Galloway has broken the record for most dick jokes told in a podcast. The competition was extremely stiff.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs) That was good. That wasn't a real person. That person... I was showing the video to someone, and like, "Who is that person?" I'm like, "That person doesn't exist," and they're like, very... They were attracted to the person. Um, it was a fake newscaster reading a very realistic but unconfirmed story that the competition was stiff. I don't think the competition was stiff at all. Um, uh, when prompted to use images of real people like me and Scott, it failed to generate audio, and came up with some less than ideal results. Here's what we got with the prompt, "Kara and Scott podcasting on Mars." Oh, what we're seeing here is Kara and Scott. Kara loo-... With a lot of makeup on. And Scott, why don't you describe it?
- SGScott Galloway
Well, no, that's Kara's straight cousin. That's not Kara.
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
Um, I'm- I'm more handsome than that guy, aren't I, Kara?
- KSKara Swisher
I think so. It's a-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
What are you-
- SGScott Galloway
And I have a third hand.
- KSKara Swisher
Explain what we're seeing. Explain what we're seeing.
- SGScott Galloway
I have a third hand.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh.
- SGScott Galloway
At least I've got the Panerai right.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, look at that hand force.
- SGScott Galloway
I have a third hand.
- KSKara Swisher
What is happening?
- SGScott Galloway
Who is that?
- KSKara Swisher
Who the fuck is that? It's Kara.
- SGScott Galloway
You've got your hair, but you also look younger than that person.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, that's not me.
- KSKara Swisher
You don't look like you.
- SGScott Galloway
That guy looks like he knocks on your door and says, "The law mandates that I notify you I've moved in next door."
- KSKara Swisher
(laughs)
- SGScott Galloway
Um... (laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
All right. Uh, here's what we've got with the prompt, "Kara and Scott as bodybuilders."
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, hello.
- 1:01:40 – 1:05:49
Scott’s Fail
- KSKara Swisher
at NYU. (screen whooshing) Scott, before we go, you have a quick fail.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, Trump is claiming, you know, one of the things Trump's calling for or claiming that America would benefit if they, Harvard reduce the number of international students is it would open up more seats for domestic students. I do think there is some truth to that, that we need to expand freshman seats for Americans. There's, um, great university systems, like the University of California do take their commitment to native Californians really seriously. I do think, you know, University of Wisconsin is living up to its mission. Uh, but what, if he was really serious, though, uh, i- it's all such bullshit, because also in this big, beautiful bill, he's talking about gutting, um, Pell Grants. And that is, he wants to cut Pell Grants by about 67 billion through 2034, reducing grants to low-income students by more than one-fifth from 2027 through 2034. And really, it's more like one-half when you take inflation, um, into account. And more than half of Pell students would have their aid reduced in some way. I'm not exaggerating, Kara. I'm, uh, there's a lot of things that led me to being here and, like, having the wonderful life I lead. One of them is Pell Grants. I got Pell Grants because my mother was a secretary. Uh, we were considered in the lowest quartile of income-earning households. Every summer, I had to save $2,300 at least, work and save $2,300, because I knew I would get a Pell Grant for $1,300 to $1,800, and I could go back for my next year at UCLA. So-
- KSKara Swisher
Wow, I didn't realize you were a Pell grantee. Huh.
- SGScott Galloway
I, the reason I got through UCLA was, it was because of Pell Grants.
- KSKara Swisher
Wow.
- SGScott Galloway
And by the way, the Cal State system in California is the largest granter of Pell Grants. Pell Grants, in my opinion, and I'm biased here, is where affirm- all affirmative action needs to go, and that is affirmative action should be based on color, should be based on green, specifically the economic situation you face. And without Pell Grants, without affirmative action, I'm a beneficiary of affirmative action. It's called Pell Grants. And these things are a lifesaver for those of us-
- KSKara Swisher
Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
... who just wouldn't have had access to college.
- KSKara Swisher
Gives you that extra, it gives you that extra amount of money that you don't, that will give you the chance to, to tell-
- SGScott Galloway
Wouldn't have graduated from UCLA. I just wouldn't, I couldn't have done it.
- KSKara Swisher
It also gives you the, the, the relief that you don't have to work, you know, slinging burgers.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, and it's a grant. It's not a loan. I, I don't have to worry about, okay, with my philosophy degree and 150 grand in student debt, am I gonna be, is this worth it? These are like, okay, the, the, the fastest way for us to level up America, full stop, is to put more money in the pockets of people who don't have money.
- KSKara Swisher
That's correct.
- SGScott Galloway
It's not, it's not (laughs) complex, folks.
- KSKara Swisher
Yep, all right.
- SGScott Galloway
And Pell Grants-
- KSKara Swisher
Pell Grants.
- SGScott Galloway
... figured that out, and it's done a great- They're, they-
- KSKara Swisher
We need to save Pell Grants. Uh-
- SGScott Galloway
Yes.
- KSKara Swisher
... a really important program. I'm gonna give a quick, uh, uh, positive one was go see Mountain Head by Jesse Armstrong. I'm curious what you think about it. It's really crazy, but it's-
- SGScott Galloway
Mountain Head?
- KSKara Swisher
Mountain Head is an HBO show that's going up, uh, Max show, that's going up on, um-
- SGScott Galloway
I get that in Aspen every year at the summer solstice.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, stop it. I knew you'd say that. Anyway-
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs)
- KSKara Swisher
Mountain Head, Steve Carell is starring in it.
- SGScott Galloway
Ah.
- KSKara Swisher
Really good. Uh, anyway, uh, and it's by Jesse Armstrong, who's fantastic. There's so many good lines in it that it's crazy. Um-
- SGScott Galloway
(laughs) I'm-
Episode duration: 1:05:49
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