PivotKara Swisher and Scott Galloway Unpack Elon Musk’s Messy Breakup
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
55 min read · 11,483 words- 0:00 – 1:08
Intro
- SGScott Galloway
If I have a breakup with you, I'm gonna do it the Elon way. I'm gonna unfollow you and let a bot break the news.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughing] Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
By the way, many people are complimenting me on the last two shows. They said they really enjoy us together.
- SGScott Galloway
Complimenting me.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, but, w- you weren't there.
- SGScott Galloway
Not complimenting us.
- KSKara Swisher
Complimenting us.
- SGScott Galloway
Many people are compliment-
- KSKara Swisher
Complimenting me about us
- SGScott Galloway
Let me just highlight how much people are complimenting me. [laughing]
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, m- complimenting me about us, because they-
- SGScott Galloway
Uh-
- KSKara Swisher
... they're enjoying the banter. You're such an asshole.
- SGScott Galloway
Let me summarize all the comments. "Can it be Scott-free August forever?" And, uh, y- the response I wanna give, but I, I refuse to engage in the comments unless it's someone, you know, occasionally I say thank you. Uh, yeah, there is something called Scott-free August all the time. It's called On with Kara Swisher.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughing] I know there's a lot of that, but that's okay. I don't care. I say no. I always push back.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
I do. I do.
- SGScott Galloway
Yes.
- KSKara Swisher
I don't, don't read the comments.
- SGScott Galloway
Mm.
- KSKara Swisher
Anyway, um, let, let's start 'cause we've got some real juicy stuff, and we've got some serious stuff. But Shivon
- 1:08 – 5:23
Elon’s Public Breakup
- KSKara Swisher
Zilis, Elon Musk's longtime partner and mother of four of his children, says Musk has abruptly ended their relationship, didn't see that coming, and that she went from in love to let go in a week, which she, like, she was an employee, by the way. Uh, I think she was on OpenAI. She was on, uh, Neuralink. Zilis shared the news publicly on X, including a screenshot of their recent text exchanges, responding to a post pointing out that Musk had unfollowed her. Zilis is the director of operations at Neuralink, which is a, a Musk company. Scott, if, if you ever abruptly break up with me, I will also post our texts. [laughing] I don't know what to make of this.
- SGScott Galloway
I think that'll reflect more poorly on you.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I agree.
- SGScott Galloway
And first off, they're at 2:00 a.m.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
You text me very late.
- KSKara Swisher
"What are you doing?" [laughing]
- SGScott Galloway
"I can't believe you said this. I can't... [laughing] I heard from Sheryl Sandberg"
- KSKara Swisher
Once again. [laughing] So what... This is so strange. I feel sad. The whole thing was such an obsequious, like, breakup. It was... I was like, "Girl, get it together." Like, and then of course, Ashley St. Clair, another ex, said we should have a group text thing with all the exes, which I thought was funny.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah. I, I, I feel even these people deserve a modicum of privacy, but when you announce your breakups on-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, that's... I agree
- SGScott Galloway
... the guy's platform.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Can you imagine if Tom Keene, a really big reporter, anchor-
- KSKara Swisher
Right
- SGScott Galloway
... on Bloomberg went on-
- KSKara Swisher
Okay
- SGScott Galloway
... Bloomberg TV to announce he was no longer in an affair with Michael Bloomberg?
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
It'd be strange and an HR issue.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
But somehow this seems normal in these people's worlds.
- KSKara Swisher
This is not an HR issue. She works for him, too. You know, it's, it's not even that. I, they've been together. I mean, they've been clear. It's fine. It's, it's fine they were together, but this is, this was so strange. I've always thought she was very slavish towards him, and I felt this-
- SGScott Galloway
[scoffing] Nice
- KSKara Swisher
... I, I really did. Like, the others, at least, like, like, St. Clair got a backbone, and of course, m- uh, you know, Justine Musk has spoken out in this new, uh, Musk documentary coming out this week. Um, but this was so odd and sad. I don't know what to say. I mean, seriously. It's, it's this sort of... Here's what it reminded me of. All of these tech people just cannot shut up about anything, including sort- their sordid prob- romantic problems, everything. They just have to, like, share. They seem to be oversharing in a way that's really quite disturbing on, to me at least.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, my first instincts are like, she comes across as gracious, uh, but women have agency. Uh, uh, I'll have, like, if I have, if I have a breakup with you-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... I'm gonna do it the Elon way. I'm gonna unfollow you and let a bot break the news.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughing] Oh, God.
- SGScott Galloway
I just, I, I, I go back to the same thing, Kara.
- 5:23 – 10:20
Sam Altman’s Elon Comments
- KSKara Swisher
of Elon, Sam Altman called Elon Musk a bully and said, "Once in a while, you got to punch a bully back in the nose" in a new interview with Vanity Fair, where he's posing, [laughing] posing. There's a lot of posing happening in it. During a rapid-fire word association, Altman called Trump powerful, oh dear, Bernie Sanders consistent, and simply passed when asked about Anthropic CEO Dario A- Amodei. When talking about how the public views him, Altman said he once had an evil caricature of Mark Zuckerberg in his head but realized after getting to know him that he's, he'd been projecting. Oh, interesting. Okay, fine. Well, that's usually the case with most people. They, they're reasonable when you meet them, but that doesn't mean they don't do bad things. Um, uh, let's do a rapid wo- rapid word association. Sam Altman.
- SGScott Galloway
The gay son we all wanted and then didn't
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs] Oh, man. He does do that well
- SGScott Galloway
And all these guys go from Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader.
- KSKara Swisher
I know, it's really weird.
- SGScott Galloway
All of them.
- KSKara Swisher
That is really funny
- SGScott Galloway
Remember a year ago?
- KSKara Swisher
Now-
- SGScott Galloway
We all thought in his hush tones, "Well, Senator, that's a very interesting topic. Oh, I don't, I don't take any money"
- KSKara Swisher
He was very appealing. I was-- gave him far too much of the benefit of the doubt
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, God, we keep falling for Sheryl Sandbergian.
- KSKara Swisher
We do
- SGScott Galloway
We keep getting Sandberged.
- KSKara Swisher
We get Sandberged.
- SGScott Galloway
"Oh, she's different. They're, she's the different tech executive"
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs] Oh, it's true. Anyway, uh, he also said that we have to take some pain if we want AI. It's, there's gonna be some accidents, et cetera. I was like, "Oh, not for you," but it was some weird other podcast where he said we have to take some pain
- SGScott Galloway
I actually sat two seats away from him. I sat next to him, and in between us was this lovely woman who was on Mad Men. I forget her name. She played Pete's wife.
- KSKara Swisher
Okay. All right
- SGScott Galloway
Couldn't have been more lovely.
- KSKara Swisher
Huh.
- SGScott Galloway
And then it was Sam, and that was awkward.
- KSKara Swisher
Was it?
- SGScott Galloway
I gotta be honest, it was awkward.
- KSKara Swisher
When was it? Recently?
- SGScott Galloway
The Vanity Fair Oscars dinner.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, that one you went to. Oh, yeah. Interesting
- SGScott Galloway
He seemed... I, I got, I got an-
- KSKara Swisher
Did you say hey? Did you say hey, girl?
- SGScott Galloway
I, I said hello. I, I said-
- 10:20 – 25:12
Cornell’s Sexual Assault Fallout
- KSKara Swisher
actually. Cornell's president is calling the rape allegations against seven fraternity members a defining moment for the school and promising this will not be a moment that passes. I'm not sure what he means by moment. The former student identified as Jane Doe has sued Cornell and seven men alleging she was drugged and repeatedly raped in 2024. We did discuss this briefly, uh, t- last week or, or the day b- before that. Um, attorneys for some of the men have denied the accusations. Cornell's president says the university supports an independent investigation and will also review fraternity culture on campus. Uh, governor, uh, New York Governor Kathy Hochul has appointed Attorney General Letitia James, a special prosecutor, to do a fresh and thorough review of the case, which is d- sorely needed, and bring charges if warranted, which might be difficult given, uh, different laws in New York. Um, I mentioned this, as I said, as my fail the other week, and since it's blown up, I just wanna say a lot of good, a lot of, uh, good reporting has happened, a lot of texts from these young men, which are heinous. Um, but I think, uh, you know, and the university at first was sort of on its back heel and seems to be leaning into it to do a better job. One of the things that I would note, the, um, Cornell has this reputation, the frats do, and of course a couple hours before this happened, this particular frat was, uh, had a drug raid too. There was just some reporting on that. This... A- and oddly enough, on, uh, White Lotus, the guy who was the douche, the frat douche, um, in the first season, I think, uh, had a Cornell hat on because the creator of the show said he, it was so well known, and, uh, it is well known that this is a school that just loves them frat, those douchey frats. But, um, anyway, why don't you start? What would you like to talk about, Scott?
- SGScott Galloway
Kara, I don't think I've ever meant anything more when I say you go first.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, okay. Um, I t- you know, I think w- as I said to you on the phone, look, we don't know... Uh, I think there's been a little bit mob mentality on- online, which is very typical of online, and everyone does deserve a chance to defend themselves. That is, that's my general stance on everything. Um- That said, there was not a real, um, independent investigation here. There was a botched investigation. It seems like through all the texts you're seeing and all the different back and forth that this woman tried hard to say, "I went to something for a party and maybe to have some fun, and then it spun out of control, and I'm trying to figure it out." And a lot of the men were trying to shut her down of those fe- those legitimate feelings she had that something turned badly. Um, she see- she said she, she said 100% it was rape, but it turned into rape at least. Um, I think that, uh, there needs to be an independent investigation. That's-- I would like to have happen so that we can deter- so that real le- um, law enforcement people can determine about this. I don't know where it's gonna end up. It's kind of a long time. I don't know. I think it's really an opportunity to talk to not just our sons, but our daughters and everyone else about this. And I know I spent a lot of time talking to my older sons about this a lo- very early on. And in fact, I had a discussion with my five-year-old when he was hitting, and I said, you know, I was trying to g- not the no means no thing, but talking about the concept of kindness, men being kind. Um, and I spent a lot of time with my sons. I had a great talk with Alex and, uh, Louie about this. Both of them have seen situations like this. They are n- they are-- they know they need to intervene. They can't believe that men would behave like this, which I felt good that they, you know, their reaction was the same as mine on-- I think they c-came to it on their own. But it's really important to educate, uh, uh, especially young men in situations like that to help, even if the woman's mad at you for pulling them, you out of a dangerous situation, to, to, to try to get in there, as you say, Scott, to be a protector. But it's the same thing for women that they have-- I talked to Clara just briefly. I'm like: Listen, as you get older, y-you need to start thinking about how you operate in the world. And so we had a, you know, we had, like, like, the seven-year-old level discussion about it. But I want them to all be aware of both taking care of themselves and taking care of other people at the same time, and I think it's really an important opportunity in this sort of heinous story to do that. All right, Scott, you next.
- SGScott Galloway
Under advice of counsel, I am invoking my Fifth Right.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
[laughs] Like, okay, I was in a fraternity.
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
I was president of a fraternity council.
- KSKara Swisher
You are. Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, your son's in a fraternity.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm going to a Regents meeting at the University of California in about an hour, where we will talk about this. I have a lot of viewpoints on this, and I have sons, and my guess is my oldest son will probably join a fraternity. I think the three most accretive things in the world that would be the most beneficial things for the world are free, and that is, one, getting rid of Citizens United, which has corrupted the most powerful and best nation in the world, the United States. Two, that everyone over the age of 72 would have to retire globally, Putin, Netanyahu, Trump, in the next year. And third, uh, I think that we need fathers to be much more engaged in their sons' lives and have much more robust, fluid conversations and open and honest and raw conversations around things. And at the outset of the year, I said I had kinda two goals. Uh, you know, I'm struggling a lot with purpose. I'm in my head too much, and one was kinda zero fucks given. But the second is, um, I wanna think a lot about, uh, uh-- we talk a lot about, you know, girl dads and boy moms and, but we don't talk enough about boy dads, and that is the single point of failure for men across a lot of levels is when they have a lack of, uh, male mentorship and involvement. And so I thought, okay, everyone from my DJ to my personal trainer has a viewpoint on the, the attorney general, Cornell, the, the people involved in this case, New York laws. I'm like, "Okay, uh, that, that's not what, how I want to approach this." I want to approach this as a dad and what I say to my sons, and I talked to my sons over the weekend about this. And I wanna be clear around parenting. There's never been anything I've ever done that I am least certain about. I-- my problem comes from too much certainty around too much, too many issues.
- KSKara Swisher
Hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
Where I have total healthy uncertainty is my approach to parenting 'cause every parenting, uh, book I've read has one thing in common. It totally contradicts the one before it. But what I can tell you as a dad, the first thing is ask them what they think about it. Just get their views on it. Force them to think about it. And then I go to very macro and very micro things, and I try to limit it to a certain number of things. I almost always try to limit my lessons to my kids to three things 'cause as a consultant, I read somewhere that once you get past three, people forget the first, but two are macro and two are micro. And the first is that, um, empathy isn't sympathy. It's, it's putting yourself in that person's shoes. And I said, in a situation like this, you need to imagine that you have a sister who's in an exact similar situation at a university across the campus and ask yourself, "How would you want the men there to behave?" Like, really empathize with people in weird situations or out-of-control situations and say, "Okay, that's my sister. In an alternative scenario, how would I want the men to behave?" And I like the idea of protector, but the reality is 93% of sexual assault is from someone the woman knows. S-so to a certain extent, we've gotta protect them from ourselves, and the way we w- we need better men. We just need to raise better men who make better decisions. The second kinda global issue is I, I, I talk about with my sons your future self, and I say, "Whenever you're in a weird situation, imagine-- or a situation involving drugs-
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, that's a good piece
- SGScott Galloway
... or alcohol or other people, imagine yourself in 10 years." I do the deathbed test. I don't think you can tell kids to do the deathbed test. They can't imagine being near death. But imagine yourself in 10 years. You have a wife. You have the kids. You're a professional. What would your future self tell you to do right now? Like, go to your future self and say, "How do I make decisions here?" And then I get very tactical, and this will cause the most pushback, but I get very tactical with my kids. I say, "Look, going out, getting maybe a little bit drunk-" You know, clothes on the floor. I think it's a lot of fun. It should never happen on first contact. The first time you are physical with a partner, you should be sober. And it means, it means a reduction in first-time contact, but there's too much risk on everyone's part when the first time you have physical contact, and I've said this to my boys, just trust me on this, the first time you kiss or more with a partner, you should both be sober. It just makes things less dangerous for everybody involved. Just always be sober. If, if you're with your girlfriend and you've been out with someone four or five times, and you wanna go out and get fucked up and have wild sex, have at it. I think that's fun. I think that's great. The first time you have contact with anybody, you should be sober. Also, a trend among young people is choking.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Don't choke anybody for any reason.
- KSKara Swisher
Didn't know that was going here. [laughs] Okay. All right. Okay. No.
- SGScott Galloway
It, it's a trend, Kara.
- KSKara Swisher
I kn- okay, I get it. I get it. Wanna talk about it.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, uh, supposedly oxygen asphyxiation is, is better off.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, it is. It is something. Yes, yes.
- SGScott Galloway
And also, to be cognizant of the fact-
- KSKara Swisher
I'm, I'm aware of that
- SGScott Galloway
... that porn takes you incrementally towards a normalization of violence against women.
- KSKara Swisher
You are correct. That is what... That's more to the point.
- SGScott Galloway
No choking, and modulate your porn, and be cognizant of the fact that porn is take as normalizing violence against women. So-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, and then the drug use that was heavy at this particular, you know-
- SGScott Galloway
Well, first contact. I-
- 25:12 – 28:57
Ellison’s Rebrand
- KSKara Swisher
Paramount Warner Brothers, uh, Discovery merger is set to close this week. A new name of the m- media monster is getting roasted online. CEO David Ellison announced on X late last week that the combined company will be called Skydance, the name of the production company he founded in t- two thousand and six. Warner Brothers and Paramount Pictures will keep their names as separate studios under the Sky-Skydance umbrella. Ellison says he wanted the combined company to have its own identity without overshadowing either studio, allowing the brands to remain in the spotlight. And there was a, this also from Reddit, "Why abandon a century's worth of brand recognition for something that sounds like a stargazing app?" I, I don't know. He bought the company. The Ellisons bought it. They can call it whatever they want. They can call it Phyllis. I don't-- I, I, you're a branding person. Just explain to me whether this was good or not. I don't really care that he wants to call it that. People seem to not think that's a good idea, but the reasons were not very good, except he's obnoxious for doing it. I don't think so what? Like, it's a perfectly good name.
- SGScott Galloway
It's a mistake, but it's not a profound mistake because it, it's, uh, the parent company is a B2B brand. It's not... No one's gonna not go see the movies because they're from the Skydance Studio versus Warner Brothers or Discovery. Uh, b- both of those brands, though, are really storied brands. They connote quality.
- KSKara Swisher
Paramount too, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, Paramount. They're all, they're all fantastic brands with real legacy, and, and it's so hard to build that kind of... I mean, one of the things that's just so hard to do, Lexus was a better car than Porsche or Mercedes, but they just didn't have the iconic history and legacy. You can't build that. And so I was a, a brand consultant to all of those firms, and whenever I'd go to Germany, I'd be like, "Talk about your heritage." It's the only thing Lex- Lexus was spun out of Toyota in, like, 1985 or something. They can't talk about, you know, f- winning, winning the African, you know, Dakar race in 1953. They can't talk about how you decided to share airbag technology in 1979 with everybody else. These are heritage brands. They're really powerful. It's not gonna have much impact on the business.
- KSKara Swisher
What would you have called it? It's hard because those are two good brands, Warner and Paramount. Discovery, probably less so.
- SGScott Galloway
So when Wells Fargo acquired, um, fuck, Norwest, uh, uh, this happens all the time in an era of media. What you do is you have, uh, Norwest, a Wells Fargo... Norwest was actually a much bigger company than Wells Fargo. You have Norwest, a Wells Fargo company, then you have Wells Fargo, Norwest, and then it's just Wells Fargo. Morgan Stanley acquired Dean Witter. For a brief amount of time, it was Morgan Stanley, Dean Witter, then it's just became Morgan Stanley because Morgan Stanley was the better brand. It probably would've been some mashup, a, you know, a Warner company or something. At the end of the day, I just would've called the whole thing Warner. I would said over time, Jack Warner and-- Warner is so storied.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, Warner Brothers.
- SGScott Galloway
Paramount's right up there. I just would've ca- I just would've call-- I just would've said over time, what is the iconic name that means creativity in Hollywood? And I just would've called the parent company one name.
- KSKara Swisher
Would it be Warner Brothers or Warner? Just Warner.
- SGScott Galloway
That's interesting. I don't-- Does the Warner Brothers add-
- KSKara Swisher
Warner Brothers feels old and cool.
- SGScott Galloway
I would've ti- it wouldn't have been Skydance, though. It wouldn't have been-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I probably would've called the whole thing just Warner.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. I agree.
- SGScott Galloway
And it's a great logo. It means Hollywood. There's legacy there.
- KSKara Swisher
It does.
- SGScott Galloway
It means quality.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, I would. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, there's just so much story behind that brand.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah. It's a minor mistake. It's fine if he wants to. You're right.
- SGScott Galloway
It's not... Yeah, it's not, it's not, it's meaningful. It's not profound.
- KSKara Swisher
Uh, it would've been an interesting indicator. I mean, Skydance has to do with the fact that he likes to fly, a- and that's why he named it that. He's-
- SGScott Galloway
The, the gangster move here would've just a nod to the-
- KSKara Swisher
To the past
- SGScott Galloway
... industry they're going into.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
This is-
- KSKara Swisher
Yep, and, and it would have stressed the movie stuff over the news stuff.
- SGScott Galloway
Hundred percent.
- 28:57 – 37:31
CNN’s Future Under Skydance
- KSKara Swisher
Mark Thompson, the chief executive of CNN, has confirmed he'll be staying as chairman and editor-in-chief. In a memo to CNN employees, Thompson said he will now have the same responsibilities and prerogatives that I have now in terms he is this, he is CEO, editor. He's all of them. In terms of leadership structure, Thompson will be reporting directly to both David Ellison and co-CEO, Inon Kreiz. Um, uh, Barry Weiss will still be editor-in-chief at CBS News. They, they at some point will have to merge these things eventually, but I, I, I, this, I'm glad. I hope it's for the long term. I just don't know because some people felt like it was an interim move to get the noise away from CNN, which is not a minor part of the money, but is a minor part of the business. They really need to focus on two things: the streaming service, which will be run by Casey Bloys, and, um, their movie, like how they're gonna figure out costs around their movie, and then thirdly, of course, the debt, the insane amount of debt, which I think really is what-- They can't take another noisy situation around, uh, the news part, uh, which, you know, at one point, Brian Roberts said it was five percent of his money and ninety-five percent of his headaches. Um, in this case, I think it does, CNN does contribute significantly, um, but at some point they'll have to combine them, although one, CBS is unionized and CNN isn't. Um, but I'm glad Mark is there. I, I, I've been talking to him a lot, and, uh, uh, he's a great guy. I really have-- I trust him completely, uh, and, uh, and that's a good thing. That's a, it's a good, it's a g- I'm glad they decided not to Be nuts here
- SGScott Galloway
Both of us have a lot of friends at CNN. I mean, you're at CNN.
- KSKara Swisher
[chuckles] They're relieved.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, I was obviously the premier, uh, star of their CNN+
- KSKara Swisher
You are
- SGScott Galloway
... uh, lineup.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, yes. [laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
[laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
I am but a bit player, a noisy bit player.
- SGScott Galloway
So just a quick, a little bit of nostalgia.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, my show, I'm in San Diego, and, um, uh, my producer called, and I don't know if it was Rebecca Cox, someone called me and said, said, "You're the number one hourly show on CNN+." And I'm like, "What does that mean, 14 people?" And they wouldn't tell me that, what it meant. And, and so I got ev- the team on the phone, I'm like, "High five, we're TV stars." And then I wake up, I get, as usual, I get an early morning O dark hundred text from Kara Swisher, "Are you all right?"
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
Which is a great text to get, uh, when it's dark and you're in some bad hotel in La Jolla.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm like, "Am I all right?"
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm like, "Who died?"
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm.
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm like, text her back. I'm like, "What the fuck?" And she, and you sent me The New York Times, C- uh, CNN+
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... to be unplugged, uh, immediately.
- KSKara Swisher
Unplugged.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, no, Zaslav-
- KSKara Swisher
I did tell you I was gonna [laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
Zaslav came in and said, "Bitch, I'm on top," and unplugs. And by the way, they've basically done CNN+ again, anyway, with- without the dog. Uh, uh, every anchor I know, and I, I'm like you, friends with a bunch of them. They're, they're lovely people.
- KSKara Swisher
Lovely.
- SGScott Galloway
And at 2:01, I was with a bunch of them [laughs] in an event a couple weeks, they all say the same thing, where they all ask, "What do you think's gonna happen?" And the only thing I was fairly certain of, and I said it on this show, is that Mark Thompson was gonna stay, and they were gonna elevate-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... his position.
- 37:31 – 48:13
Netflix’s Growth Problem
- KSKara Swisher
Scott, we're back with more news. This was interesting. Netflix CEO Ted Sarandos says the company is not growing as fast as he wants, with engagement up just two percent in the first half of the year. The streamer is spending about five percent of its content budget on live programming, even though it currently accounts for only one percent of total viewing. Uh, the company is also planning to expand theatrical leases with a wide release pan, uh, planned for Narnia and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory after putting more than thirty movies in theaters last year. Uh, Netflix shares are down twenty-six percent year to date. Um, thoughts? This is really interesting. He also said he would only pay so much for the Warner deal. Probably a good thing he didn't get it. He'd be in a massive trouble right now.
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, yeah. That would be ugly right now.
- KSKara Swisher
I think he made the right choice to pull out-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah
- KSKara Swisher
... so to speak. But what do you, what, what do you think is happening there? There's all kinds of rumors about, you know, people being in and out and this and that, but thoughts.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, we've talked about, we said it last year that it's not a talent problem, it's a metabolism problem, and that is when you have so much success, you begin, you become more risk-averse with an existing model. And one of the most underreported stories in media is, and it's happened slowly then suddenly, is a transition from streaming to what you'll loosely call the clip economy. And this is anecdotal evidence, but I will get real data on this, but I'm no longer turning on the TV. I'm watching-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... YouTube.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh.
- SGScott Galloway
And-
- KSKara Swisher
I never do
- SGScott Galloway
... I love TV, but I'll watch the best three minutes from Fareed Zakaria's GPS on my phone. And someone-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... has zeroed in on the best three or six minutes.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And-
- KSKara Swisher
Same thing with SNL, with like, like, um, you know, Oscars
- SGScott Galloway
I don't watch SNL. I see the best bits-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah. Me too
- SGScott Galloway
... someone very talented has clipped the four best three-minute segments.
- KSKara Swisher
Yep, exactly. Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
And unfortunately, the, the platform-
- KSKara Swisher
Not lucrative
- SGScott Galloway
... the platforms that monetize that are not Netflix. And I said this, I said this when I met with Ted three years ago. I'm like, "Netvibes, the ninety-nine percent of your programming that gets one percent of the content, make it open source and let people have at it. New music, new storylines, clips, let, let them just go ape shit with it and produce new content." The viewership grew two percent on two hundred billion hours in the first half. So Sarandos said it's, he isn't growing as fast as he wants, but he did say the business is great and growing fine. Revenue growth was thirteen percent in Q2. Uh, uh, it's interesting. Talk about good problems. Companies would kill, media companies would kill for-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, they would
- SGScott Galloway
... thirteen and a half percent growth.
- KSKara Swisher
They would.
- SGScott Galloway
Live takes about five percent of the roughly twenty billion dollar content budget, around one billion, and generates about one percent of viewing. Uh, Sarandos admits that the ROI isn't there, but he says the signups, um, it drives signups from retention and ads. HSBC downgraded the stock to hold, arguing YouTube's gains are partly coming at Netflix. Netflix isn't competing against Hulu or HBO. It's competing against YouTube, full stop.
- KSKara Swisher
YouTube, yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And, you know, Netflix pays twenty billion dollars a year for content. YouTube pays creators on a revenue share basis and gets twenty million uploads a day for free. It's just, it's difficult to compete against that cost structure.
- 48:13 – 56:05
Wins and Fails
- KSKara Swisher
some wins and fails. Would you like me to go first?
- SGScott Galloway
You go first.
- KSKara Swisher
Um, [laughs] Elon Musk has announced he's changing the name of SpaceX AI to SpaceXSI-
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, I saw that
- KSKara Swisher
... because he's a suck-up to Donald Trump. This is so inane. Like, oh my God, Elon, guess what? There's an election coming up where it might not go so well for you, although he will try his level best to manipulate it, but, um, or spend money, excuse me, not manipulate it, spend money in order to win his side. But, uh-
- SGScott Galloway
Stock's up today
- KSKara Swisher
... it is. He, he's, h- he's rich again, whatever. Um-
- SGScott Galloway
Again. [laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
Again, whatever.
- SGScott Galloway
Thank God.
- KSKara Swisher
Whatever. I don't know what to say. And my win is, uh, I really do, uh, I, I, The Social Reckoning is opening this week, and so is, um Musk. I recommend people see it who don't know a lot about this because I think it does a really nice job. It is long, abso-fucking-lutely. I have a really interesting interview, uh, coming up on Thursday, which I can't reveal yet, but I found it really subs... I think it's really important to think about this person in a position of enormous power. Um, even though sometimes he seems like an ass clown, it's-- he's also very dangerous and incredibly influential, and so we should be-- never take our eyes off of him and getting yourself educated for this documentary, Musk, is great. And I did like the Social Reckoning. I don't think it's as good as the first one, but it's still, you know, I think it's a really strong movie, and it's, um, it, I think it's worth another m-movie worth seeing. Um, and it certainly goes by quickly. It's a great cast, uh, with, uh, I think it's Mikey Madison. I think Mickey Madison. Um, anyway, the whole thing is, it's well done. Anyhow, Jeremy Strong is in it. The other Jeremy from The Bear is in it. Um, so it's a good movie. So those are my, my wins.
- SGScott Galloway
Nice.
- KSKara Swisher
Scott?
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, so my win is the FlyDubai FC 1073 passengers. On September 30th, uh, passengers said the co-pilot stabbed the captain, after which the plane lost control and dropped seventeen thousand feet in under a minute. Israeli passengers got into the com- cockpit and incapacitated the co-pilot, an Omani national. Two off-duty pilots then reportedly took over the controls. Three Israelis tied up the attacker, and the plane made an emergency landing at Tabuk Airport in Saudi Arabia. So, [sighs] what it says about Israel-- I think it says some very positive things about Israeli culture. Um, near universal military service, most Israeli adults have trained for crisis, a bias towards action, um, and kind of echoes of Flight 93. But also, the heroism is shared here, and one of the nicer things about it is an Indian pilot. He was also hailed as a hero along with the passengers. Uh, there's a Gulf angle here. Saudi Arabia took in an Israel-bound plane, and passengers thanked Tabuk Airport for the warm welcome. It kind of reminded me of when Gander accepted our planes, American planes, after nine eleven. So this was not, you know, this is about a wonderful ending, which we needed in good news.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, it didn't crash. It didn't crash.
- SGScott Galloway
But-- And, and Israel and Israeli culture plays a nice role here, but it's not a story, just a story about Israel. It's a story about heroes come from different nationalities, and that heroism can be used to kind of create connective tissue. There's a lot of really nice feelings back and forth between these countries right now in an era where we just need more connective tissue between nations.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, my fail-
- KSKara Swisher
And that Indian pilot, he got stabbed supposedly, and I mean, I, this is what, uh, the reporting was, and then opened the door, which is critical.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, he yelled for help.
- KSKara Swisher
That was critical to the entire thing.
- SGScott Galloway
Yelled for help, and then imme-
- KSKara Swisher
Those, those doors are now locked after what happened.
- SGScott Galloway
And by the way, there was a passenger who immediately knew how to land the plane. [laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Anyways, um, quite frankly, I, I think that is such a nice story that the world needed to hear right now, and I don't feel like we're hearing a lot about it, and that's a different, that's a different issue. So my fail is Musk exports US polarization to Germany. The AfD won forty-four percent of the vote, and [sighs] the extremies-- the extremism label is earned here. The state's domestic intelligence service classifies the Saxony-Anhalt AfD as a proven right-wing extremist organization, which of course the parties deny. Now, Musk's role, on election night, Musk posted, "Gut gemacht," g-good job. The AfD-led candidate, Ulrich Siegmund, thanked him for support and perspective on politics in Germany. The platform, so Global Witness found that two-thirds of party political content X recommended from unfollowed accounts supported the AfD, and seventy-eight percent on TikTok. This was despite the CDU and its leader posting sixty-nine percent more content than the AfD. In sum, it appears that the Twitter algorithm is biased towards far-right groups in Germany. Uh, they have had pushback. Poland's, uh, Tusk said only idiots or traitors in Poland could celebrate the AfD's win. I think Poland is the unsung bulwark now against Russia and far-right extremism in the US. Uh, so the AfD, let me be clear, the AfD's rise to power isn't, isn't because of Musk. It's because of, uh, anti-immigration policies where there is some legitimacy to the fact that, uh, Merkel pr- Merkel probably thought about immigration before assimilation, and there's economic problems. But [sighs] in sum, America's most successful export used to be democracy, and now it's polarization, sold, sold through one man's algorithm to one country that has the best reason to know where this extremism ends. And this is the same guy that claims there's a white genocide taking place in South Africa that has, in my opinion, gonna go down in history as the greatest cause of unnecessary death, disease, and disability among Black people in Africa. This is not the guy who should be tweaking an algorithm to help support and give rise to a far-right extremist party in Germany. And again, uh, political extremism shouldn't be our export here.
- KSKara Swisher
Well, it's actually in Spain, the leader there, 'cause of immigration, is in, in a little bit of trouble. In, in, uh, Bolsonaro, looks like the young-- the son of Bolsonaro looks like he's gonna be beating the left party there. There's all manner of things happening. Uh, can I just point one thing out about the-
- SGScott Galloway
Sure
- KSKara Swisher
... the AfD? Um, the co-chair of the party is a lesbian who has a, a, a, a woman of color as her partner, and they have children, and she's against gay marriage. She's anti-immigrant. Everything she lives, and she lives out of the country too. She lives in Switzerland, uh, most of the time. Everything that she, that, about her life, she is pushing against. It's really something. Her name's Alice Weidel. I kinda wanna interview her and, like, maybe have a wrestling match of some type.
- SGScott Galloway
Hmm.
Episode duration: 56:05
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