Kara Swisher Explains Plan to Buy The Washington Post | Pivot

Kara Swisher discusses her plans to assemble a group to buy The Washington Post from Jeff Bezos, and talks to Scott Galloway about why she's not using traditional tactics. The two debate transparency in media ownership, newsroom management, and the future of legacy newspapers. Kara also looks back at her history with The Post, and the paper's role in American media. #pivot #podcast #karaswisher #jeffbezos #washingtonpost #media #newspaper Subscribe to Pivot on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pivot/id1073226719 Subscribe to Pivot on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4MU3RFGELZxPT9XHVwTNPR Follow us on Instagram and Threads at: https://www.instagram.com/pivotpodcastofficial Follow us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@PIVOTPODCAST Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or at https://podcasts.voxmedia.com/show/pivot

Kara SwisherhostScott Gallowayhost

Jan 7, 20259mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

25 min read · 4,514 words

0:00 – 0:30
Cartoon censorship controversy sparks broader Washington Post ownership debate
1. KSKara Swisher
  ... the cartoonist of the Washington Post has quit after a cartoon depicting, uh, billionaires, including Jeff Bezos, kneeling before President-elect Donald Trump, was blocked from publication. Ann, uh, Telnaes, I think that's how you pronounce it, uh, published a sketch of the cartoon, uh, on Subsca- Substack, saying it was the first time a work had been rejected because of who it depicted. Uh, she's a Pulitzer Prize winner, by the way. Amazing cartoonist. The Washington Post editorial page editor, David Shipley, said the cartoon was rejected because of its similarity to columns at the paper rather than the subject, although he
0:30 – 1:00
Amazon’s Melania Trump documentary and the optics of billionaire media influence
1. KSKara Swisher
  managed to publish many similar columns over and over again. This is, it's nonsense what David Shipley said, and now I can say it very explicitly 'cause Amanda quit the Washington Post. Uh, he is really, uh, uh, this, this was nonsense what he was, his excuse. Um, in other related news, uh, Amazon's announced that it will release a behind-the-scenes documentary on Melania Trump by Brett Ratner, who was sucked up into the Me Too stuff rather egregiously. He seems to be a really, um, problematic person. Uh, and, uh,
1:00 – 1:32
Kara floats buying The Washington Post; Scott calls it performative
1. KSKara Swisher
  uh, and there's, uh, the New York Times did some really astonishing coverage on his behavior. Uh, so that was nice. Um, uh, what do you think, Scott? You wanna buy the Washington Post with me?
2. SGScott Galloway
  This is such peacocking.
3. KSKara Swisher
  Yeah.
4. SGScott Galloway
  First off-
5. KSKara Swisher
  I didn't invite you.
6. SGScott Galloway
  ... if I'm gonna spend a lot of money to be put in pain, uh, he or she better be wearing-
7. KSKara Swisher
  Yeah.
8. SGScott Galloway
  ... leather and be hot. I just-
9. KSKara Swisher
  (laughs)
10. SGScott Galloway
  (laughs) What, what are you do- uh, I, uh, anyways. No, I'm not crazy. I, I, that is literally-
11. KSKara Swisher
  Okay. All right. Good.
12. SGScott Galloway
  ... I would, I think I told you when I had an experience-
13. KSKara Swisher
  I'm waiting to hear your feedback.
14. SGScott Galloway
  Well, no. I have-
15. KSKara Swisher
  But go ahead.
1:32 – 2:02
Scott’s New York Times ownership lesson: journalism vs. shareholder governance
1. SGScott Galloway
  I braised s- back in the heyday of hedge funds, I convinced a hedge fund manager to give me $600 million to become the largest, uh, shareholder in the New York Times, and I learned a decent amount about newsrooms and, and the collision between shareholder governance and journalism and newsrooms, and I quickly learned, or I got a very expensive lesson, these are important institutions. I even wonder at some point-
2. KSKara Swisher
  Right.
3. SGScott Galloway
  ... if they should have some sort of tax benefit 'cause I think they do a really important, they do really important work.
4. KSKara Swisher
  I agree.
2:02 – 2:15
Scott’s prescription: trust ownership and owners who ‘stay out of it’
1. SGScott Galloway
  But at the end of the day, these are institutions that should be owned by trusts and they should have a trust, uh, that basically hires the right guy or gal to run the thing and they just stay the fuck out of it.
2. KSKara Swisher
  Maybe I have that idea. Maybe I'm not doing it your way. God damn.
2:15 – 3:12
Reality check: Bezos has to want to sell—and private talks matter
1. SGScott Galloway
  Well, I know, but what I would argue ... So just, just to bring in the viewers, uh, just to ring the listeners up, there's been a lot of rumors that you're assembling a group to make a bid for-
2. KSKara Swisher
  Yes.
3. SGScott Galloway
  ... the Washington Post.
4. KSKara Swisher
  Yes.
5. SGScott Galloway
  And what I haven't heard is that Jeff Bezos is willing to sell it.
6. KSKara Swisher
  Correct.
7. SGScott Galloway
  (laughs) And so all of this, in my view, and I, uh, you know, and, is, uh, uh, I don't know, sort of a- all chip no salsa.
8. KSKara Swisher
  Doesn't matter.
9. SGScott Galloway
  Yeah. So we can, we, or when I say we I mean you, complain about the Post and the ownership and, but if you, and I told you this on the phone the other night, if you were serious about doing this, you would've had offline conversations with Bezos and said, "Can I put together a group that includes you and gives you some shark repellent and innoculates you from this un- this, this bullshit and grief which you are probably not enjoying right now, and gives you plausible deniability where you can say, 'Oh, it's up to the ...' " It's kinda like what you, I think, if you were serious, get, you have to get Jeff on board, and-
10. KSKara Swisher
  Yes, correct.
11. SGScott Galloway
  ... and then two-
3:12 – 4:40
Kara’s counter-strategy: public conversation, reporting instincts, and rejecting ‘quiet deals’
1. KSKara Swisher
  This is what I'm attempting to do.
2. SGScott Galloway
  ... try and get, um-
3. KSKara Swisher
  Because again, you're not asking if I'm attempting to do this.
4. SGScott Galloway
  Well, uh, right. And the, but the way you would do this, Kara, is quietly. (laughs)
5. KSKara Swisher
  Mm-mm. I think you're wrong.
6. SGScott Galloway
  You're not gonna-
7. KSKara Swisher
  That's where you and I-
8. SGScott Galloway
  ... shame this guy into selling the Post.
9. KSKara Swisher
  I'm not shaming him. I actually have praised his ownership until recently. I have been very much praising his ownership until recently. I think it's much more complex. I don't think that's what I'm doing. I think there's ways to do things and calling attention to it and b- bringing it to the conversation.
10. SGScott Galloway
  Right.
11. KSKara Swisher
  There's a lot more people than me looking at this, by the way, FYI.
12. SGScott Galloway
  Is that right?
13. KSKara Swisher
  And I think the on- yes. And the only way, and I'm meeting with everybody. This is what I, this is how I'm approaching it. I'm a reporter. I was an excellent reporter.
14. SGScott Galloway
  All right.
15. KSKara Swisher
  I certainly was a much better-
16. SGScott Galloway
  I think you still are an excellent reporter.
17. KSKara Swisher
  ... reporter than, I am. I'm more, much more so than the guy who's the CEO of the company, by the way. By, by a far.
18. SGScott Galloway
  Okay.
19. KSKara Swisher
  And I, I approach-
20. SGScott Galloway
  You are not gonna get this thing shit-posting the current CEO.
21. KSKara Swisher
  Yes, I don't care about the CEO. I, I, I think he ... Fine. Whatever. It doesn't matter.
22. SGScott Galloway
  Okay.
23. KSKara Swisher
  It's not shit-posting. I'm telling-
24. SGScott Galloway
  (laughs)
25. KSKara Swisher
  ... I'm saying what I think. And it's not shit-post-
26. SGScott Galloway
  That was the definition of shit-posting.
27. KSKara Swisher
  Shit-posting is, no it wasn't. Well, I am a better reporter. I'm sorry. It's a factual thing.
28. SGScott Galloway
  Okay.
29. KSKara Swisher
  Um, so, um, I, I think the way to do it is start the conversation and get it going rather than these-
30. SGScott Galloway
  Right.
4:40 – 5:12
Building a coalition: talking to billionaires and testing interest
1. KSKara Swisher
  I'm talking to everybody.
2. SGScott Galloway
  Yeah.
3. KSKara Swisher
  Like, everybody. And you'd be surprised who I'm talking to. By the way, someone who was doubtful, I had a long, long conversation with a billionaire who was doubtful. Had a long, long conversation last night. Suddenly, he's very engaged in the idea-
4. SGScott Galloway
  Yeah.
5. KSKara Swisher
  ... because he'd started to listen to s- the various i- ideas.
6. SGScott Galloway
  Yeah.
7. KSKara Swisher
  I think it's okay-
8. SGScott Galloway
  What else did Mark Cuban say?
9. KSKara Swisher
  No, no. Uh, that's not what I'm talking about. So, um, but he would be, he would be great. Someone like that. I welcome-
10. SGScott Galloway
  Yeah.
11. KSKara Swisher
  ... his, his input 'cause I think he's really smart. I welcome the feedback of negativity that you are displaying.
5:12 – 5:58
Radical transparency vision: broadcast the meetings and make the turnaround a story
1. SGScott Galloway
  (laughs)
2. KSKara Swisher
  That's fine. That's great. (laughs) Um, I think it's good to talk to everyone and understand what the various possibilities would be. And one of the things that I think doing this thing, and then we'll, we'll end this, is, uh, why not just talk about it explicitly? If I ran this thing, everything would be transparent. I would broadca- you know how at, how, you know, you have all these media reporters, like feeders talking about what happened at a meeting? I'd broadcast the fucking meeting. What's the, what's the secret here? It's losing money. Here's how much money we're losing. Here's why. Here's what we invested in. Like, dude, I think one of the reasons Pivot's successful is 'cause we're very transparent about what we're up to most of the time. We really are. And we say when we make mistakes. I would make it public. I'd make it a narrative. I would come up with lot, lots of ideas. And I agree with you, it's not a money-making situation.
5:58 – 6:10
Scott pitches ‘Drive to Survive’ for the newsroom; Kara embraces the narrative angle
1. SGScott Galloway
  You do an HBO series, like Drive to Survive, or-
2. KSKara Swisher
  An HBO series. (laughs)
3. SGScott Galloway
  ... Behind the Music, or-
4. KSKara Swisher
  (laughs)
5. SGScott Galloway
  ... those things where they go, they, they depict a season of a team-
6. KSKara Swisher
  You're out.
7. SGScott Galloway
  Yeah.
8. KSKara Swisher
  Survivor. Yeah, you just make, it's a great story. And, and at the heart of it, it's ... It is. It is. No, I think it is. I think ... You know. Yeah.
6:10 – 7:47
Is The Washington Post uniquely important—or just legacy nostalgia?
1. SGScott Galloway
  See, I think you think those people and that institution is more interesting than it is. I think you find it fascinating-
2. KSKara Swisher
  It is. It is. No, I think it is. I think ... and a small group of Beltway people in Kalorama find it interesting. And most of them- No. Yeah.
3. SGScott Galloway
  ... find that the reporters in the newsroom are amazing at reporting and they brighten up a room by leaving it. I just don't think-
4. KSKara Swisher
  No. (laughs)
5. SGScott Galloway
  ... it's that dramatic a story.
6. KSKara Swisher
  I, I think it's a great story. I think it's a g-... it's got a, it's a, it has its whole... The Washington Post has a particular hold on this country in a way that's really wonderful in many ways. By the way, you don't think Ben Bradlee was interesting? That was so fantastic. He was such a fantastic chara-... Katharine Graham. I have all kinds of re- th- ideas to make it interesting and it is actually inherently interesting. And the idea that there's one newspaper though, The New York T-... and also you could do all kinds of things with papers around the c-... Just, uh, like what's the fresh idea here is all I'm going for, is let... I'm open to the fresh idea of how you could save this institution in a way that is really interesting and it doesn't, you don't have to have a foregone conclusion of every single thing. I agree, it's easier to start it from scratch, it's easier to do it by yourself, it's easier to do it very lightweight, you run all over the country without a lot of things, but this is a percu- particular and peculiar institution I think is important. And I obviously have an emotional connection to it 'cause I started there in the newsroom. I have an em-... But there really is something about there cannot just be The New York Times and... By the way, something's gonna happen with The Wall Street Journal when Rupert goes, who knows what goes on with that institution, right?
7. SGScott Galloway
  Mm-hmm.
8. KSKara Swisher
  Um, and then over in the West Coast, you got Looney Tunes, uh, the guy who's running, uh-
9. SGScott Galloway
  New York Times. Yeah.
10. KSKara Swisher
  That guy, who seems to have, uh, he started off a liberal, now he's a Trumper. It's like, and he's got, like, he doesn't know what he's talking about.
7:47 – 8:19
Print vs. media ecosystem: Kara says it’s not about ‘dead trees’
1. SGScott Galloway
  Yeah, but you're, you're defining media-
2. KSKara Swisher
  (laughs)
3. SGScott Galloway
  ... by the fact that it's printed on dead trees. You're defining media-
4. KSKara Swisher
  I don't, I... Listen-
5. SGScott Galloway
  There's a lot of competition.
6. KSKara Swisher
  ... I don't-
7. SGScott Galloway
  There's a lot of other players in ...
8. KSKara Swisher
  I agree.
9. SGScott Galloway
  ... New York.
10. KSKara Swisher
  I, I told Don Graham when I left, "Why are you even printing it?" This was back in the '90s. I was like, "I don't even understand why you print it." I don't, I don't actually. I still don't. So, I'm just saying I think this is interesting. I find it to be... Like, it's a, it, it's an interesting puzzle to Kara Swisher. And I, I, and I have a million other things I'm doing that are much more lucrative-
11. SGScott Galloway
  Just-
12. KSKara Swisher
  ... that are much more promising.
13. SGScott Galloway
  ... enjoy-
14. KSKara Swisher
  I-
15. SGScott Galloway
  ... just be, uh, uh-
16. KSKara Swisher
  (laughs) I love this.
8:19 – 9:22
Scott warns it’s self-inflicted pain; Kara frames it as her ‘breath work’ and commits
1. SGScott Galloway
  You're so good. You're leaning... Just be a billionaire, just be a wealthy lesbian. Buy like a, buy like a roller derby team-
2. KSKara Swisher
  (laughs)
3. SGScott Galloway
  ... or something. Just do something-
4. KSKara Swisher
  (laughs) I wanna do breath work.
5. SGScott Galloway
  (laughs)
6. KSKara Swisher
  I want... This is my breath work.
7. SGScott Galloway
  Be like-
8. KSKara Swisher
  This is my breath work.
9. SGScott Galloway
  ... Bezos gets it, you don't. He's on a fucking yacht with a, with a woman in a, in a G-string in St. Barts and you're talking about all this pain, self-inflicted pain. You're about to go into a dentist office and say, "Hold off on the novocaine." Have you been... I mean, you've been in newsrooms, I'll give you that.
10. KSKara Swisher
  (laughs) Arlo, I've been in all of them.
11. SGScott Galloway
  Ugh, I can't believe-
12. KSKara Swisher
  I've been in all of them.
13. SGScott Galloway
  ... you would subject yourself to that bullshit. Anyway-
14. KSKara Swisher
  I think there's a new way. I think there's a new... Let me just tell you, this is my breath work and I'm gonna fucking do it.
15. SGScott Galloway
  Okay.
16. KSKara Swisher
  You, you literally hired someone to teach you to breathe today and you're giving me-
17. SGScott Galloway
  Yeah.
18. KSKara Swisher
  ... a hard time about something that is actually slightly noble even, and that's not why I'm doing it. I think it's fun. I actually... But, anyway, we'll see what happens. But I predict in 2025, I will meet with Jeff Bezos-
19. SGScott Galloway
  (laughs)
20. KSKara Swisher
  ... or my name isn't Kara Swisher. Okay? I'm going t-
21. SGScott Galloway
  I, I wouldn't-
22. KSKara Swisher
  He's gonna meet-
23. SGScott Galloway
  ... I wouldn't put it past you. I wouldn't put it past you.
24. KSKara Swisher
  I'm doing it. He's gonna do it. And you know what? He's gonna like it.

Episode duration: 9:23

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Cartoon censorship controversy sparks broader Washington Post ownership debate

Amazon’s Melania Trump documentary and the optics of billionaire media influence

Kara floats buying The Washington Post; Scott calls it performative

Scott’s New York Times ownership lesson: journalism vs. shareholder governance

Scott’s prescription: trust ownership and owners who ‘stay out of it’

Reality check: Bezos has to want to sell—and private talks matter

Kara’s counter-strategy: public conversation, reporting instincts, and rejecting ‘quiet deals’

Building a coalition: talking to billionaires and testing interest

Radical transparency vision: broadcast the meetings and make the turnaround a story

Scott pitches ‘Drive to Survive’ for the newsroom; Kara embraces the narrative angle

Is The Washington Post uniquely important—or just legacy nostalgia?

Print vs. media ecosystem: Kara says it’s not about ‘dead trees’

Scott warns it’s self-inflicted pain; Kara frames it as her ‘breath work’ and commits

Get more out of YouTube videos.