Kara Swisher Explains Why Airport Chaos is "Trump's Chaos"| Pivot

Kara Swisher 0:00 He has lost his mind. He is as cognitively disabled, Mad King George as it's getting, and it's getting worse. [upbeat music] Hi, everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway 0:17 And I'm Scott Galloway.

Kara Swisher 0:18 How you doing, Scott?

Scott Galloway 0:20 Uh, I'm tired. I-

Kara Swisher 0:22 Yeah

Scott Galloway 0:22 ... took the red-eye back from Mexico.

Kara Swisher 0:24 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 0:25 But, uh, fortunately, the infrastructure is so superior at the airports in Mexico now.

Kara Swisher 0:30 [laughs]

Scott Galloway 0:30 It took me about three minutes to get... And I'm not exaggerating.

Kara Swisher 0:33 I agree.

Scott Galloway 0:34 I, I texted my assistant, I said, "Should I get to the airport early?" And she said, "Oh, no, not to worry, it's Mexico."

Kara Swisher 0:39 Right.

Scott Galloway 0:39 And I'm like, "Jesus Christ, how far have we fallen?"

Kara Swisher 0:40 We're gonna get into that. It's really weird, I have to tell you. I'm so glad I'm not traveling this week.

Scott Galloway 0:46 Oh, God.

Kara Swisher 0:46 We traveled a lot last week for South by Southwest, and it was quite fine. It, even though it was sort of building, the id- you know, it was building in these airports, um, we'll talk about it, but I am so happy I'm not traveling.

Scott Galloway 0:58 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 0:58 And it seems like airports, it's like lines, delays, crashes, and ice. Okay, let's get to the news. Two pilots are dead after an Air Canada plane and a firetruck collided at LaGuardia Airport on Sunday evening. There's, there's stoppages at Newark, everywhere. As we record this, LaGuardia is closed. The accident comes as airports, chaos across the country, not just TSA lines, uh, due to a DHS shutdown because they're not paying the TSA, um, security people. The Trump administration

Kara Swisher 1:29 is now sending ICE agents into airports. They're, they can't wear masks because there's no criminals apparently. Border control, uh, czar Tom Homan says ICE will be there to help move these lines along. I think he was told about it in a Truth Social, and then he had to do something about it. This poor feckless guy is like, "Oh, God." Trump just announced if ICE isn't enough to help the airports, he'll bring in the National Guard. TSA workers have been calling in sick in record numbers, and more than 400 officers have outright quit since the shutdown began in February. They're not being paid. Um, there, there was just a report that there was a- an agreement between John Thune and the Democrats, which Trump rejected. This is fully in Trump's... This chaos is Trump's chaos. Um, he's, uh, he's trying to send ICE to do this. Elon Musk, as usual, because he can't, you know, because he's a narcissistic prick, has inserted himself into this, offering to pay TSA salaries during the shutdown. This is not how we wanna fund government. President Trump says, um, that i- it's, it's the Democrats' fault. It's clearly chaos is follows him wherever he goes, and he won't do any deal because the, the Democrats wanna put strictures on some ICE activities, which seems appropriate. Um, any thoughts on this? And, and airports suck for people. You're seeing videos after video after video of the lines, the chaos, uh, the shutdowns, the, the lack of security, the possibility of accidents everywhere you go. Any thoughts?

Scott Galloway 2:50 [sighs] You, you want another attack on the middle class is that probably the most obvious investment in the middle class is investments in infrastructure. Because when people can get to work, when people have more opportunities, when people can spend more time with their families, when people have an absence of stress, when they can take their kids to Disneyland, you know, that's, that's accretive to the prosperity of their life. And a, a fairly decent metric for the progress of a civilization and how much it cares about its civil, how much it cares about its middle class is its investments in infrastructure. And when you see this type of political warfare breaking out, I mean, here's what's happened. It, it doesn't-- The 1% that, that controls our government now has their own infrastructure. Um, I mean, I... Their own, their own transportation, their own planes, their own security, their own police force. If you just give a little bit of money away, you can get, you know, your own pr- practically your own say in government. So I'm not exaggerating. I, I go to the Cancun Airport. Uh, you know, I, I buy a, you know, I, whatever I bought, some-

Kara Swisher 4:06 Cerveza

Scott Galloway 4:07 ... uh, yeah, I bought a Modelo Especial, and there was no security line.

Kara Swisher 4:12 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 4:12 And I thought, "Oh, I have to come to Mexico for an investment in the middle class."

Kara Swisher 4:17 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 4:17 Anyways, I find the whole thing incredibly discouraging. Typically, before, um, our podcast, I do 30 seconds of research.

Kara Swisher 4:25 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 4:25 And this one, I just couldn't do it.

Kara Swisher 4:26 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 4:26 I just couldn't do it. [laughs]

Kara Swisher 4:28 Yeah. Well, i- it's not a very good look. Who do you... Look, I hate to say who looks better here, but I think this is one of these visceral things, the way the attacks on Minneapolis were. This is a visceral th- thing that goes all the way to the surface.

Scott Galloway 4:40 Do they blame Trump, or do they blame government in general?

Kara Swisher 4:42 I think they blame Trump.

Scott Galloway 4:43 Hmm.

Kara Swisher 4:43 I think chaos follows this guy. And, and it looks like there's very clear reports the Republicans tried to settle it, and he refu- he's refusing. He refuses to give in.

Scott Galloway 4:53 Well, that's, but, see, that's the problem. If you wanna, if you wanna end the... If you wanna get air traffic controllers and TSA paid, it's pretty easy. Just cancel all, i-i- immediately pass legislation that grounds all tail numbers that are private planes. Private planes have-

Kara Swisher 5:11 Yeah

Scott Galloway 5:11 ... their own special type of tail number.

Kara Swisher 5:12 Yep, they do.

Scott Galloway 5:13 And all of a sudden, the trillions are gonna come through the constipation of the legislative process, and they're gonna figure out a way to fund TSA. But the people who control our government right now, unfortunately, aren't as affected by this.

Kara Swisher 5:27 No, they aren't.

Scott Galloway 5:28 So-

Kara Swisher 5:28 And Trump doesn't care. He doesn't care about the way-

Scott Galloway 5:30 He, he doesn't... Like, he gives a shit that lines are long at, at Hartsfield-Jackson Airport.

Kara Swisher 5:36 Yeah. What's interesting is the airports that are working had private pe- private security there, like San Francisco and some others, um, and the ones that had TSA, obviously. And if I was a TSA person, I would quit too. I mean, he was urging them to stay working without pay. No. No. Just settle your differences, and everyone knows that. And then to send ICE in, of all things, so ineffective, so inefficient.

Scott Galloway 5:59 What, what's with that? What was the rationale for that? Did-

Kara Swisher 6:01 I don't know what they're gonna do. I think, I, I literally, from what I, the reporting was, is he tweeted it or threaded it or whatever the, whatever he's on, truthed it, and Tom Homan was like, "Oh no, what do I do?" And they have to all act likeOkay. You know, we have to do some... Like, of course we're on it, but they're not on it. It's like crazy Mad King George. I think what we have to have a conversation about, and we'll g-talk about Iran, is he is lose-- he has lost his mind. He is cognitively disabled Mad King George as it's getting, and it's getting

Kara Swisher 6:30 worse, as you saw from the tweets. Let's, as we record, he says he's postponing struck-strikes on Iranian power plants for five days, claiming productive talks with Iran, uh, to end the war. Iran is denying the talks with the US, just as US presidents denied talking with Trump about how-- what a good idea it was. I think he's having con-- He's like Nixon. He's talking to the portrait on the wall. Over the weekend, Trump was threatening to obliterate i-Iran's power plants if the Strait of Hormuz wasn't reopened. Then he said he wasn't, and then he said he was in talks, and then he said this. He says a lot of things. It changes from absolutely minute by minute. Iran said it would irreversibly destroy essential infrastructure across the Middle East if the US attacked its energy sites. They are not backing down. They're a lot stronger than... Well, Trump didn't do any homework at all. Oil prices fell and stocks rose after Trump postponed these, uh, strikes be-- but he threatened them, and he may threaten them again in the next fifteen minutes. He seems to be literally changing his e-everything by the second. Um, uh, he probably got spooked by oil and gas prices. High gas prices in the last few weeks are sparking, uh, more interest in electric vehicles. We'll get to that in a second. But where are we with this? 'Cause this, this shifting is, is literally minute by minute. Like it's not-- It's like there's four minutes that goes by, and then he says something different than the previous thing he just said when he gets in front of a, a microphone.

Scott Galloway 7:52 Well, this is a continuation of just a total lack of objectives and no ability to communicate what the objectives are such that he could declare victory and win. It feels as if it's spinning out of control. A clear lack... I mean, at some point, incompetence comes to roost. I, I was always thinking it's just amazing that shit hasn't gotten worse or we haven't had a disaster when he keeps appointing podcasters and talk show hosts and conspiracy theory, uh, theorists to the most important positions in America, and now we're starting to see that come to fruition. O-Of course, they were going... O-One of the downsides of globalization, incredible prosperity, a lowering of prices, um, you know, you outsource comparative advantage. Globalization, I would argue, on the whole, has been just an unbelievable unlock, incentive cooperation. The problem with globalization is it creates a series of choke points that can bring the global economy down.

Kara Swisher 8:44 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 8:44 One of those choke points i-are the Straits of Hormuz, and a lot of people said it was a choke, choke point, but f-whoever was saying that, they weren't, they weren't listening to. And you have ef-effectively, the world is likely gonna go into some sort of fairly either modest or maybe even a deep recession. Um, and everyone talks about our energy independence. Yeah, we're strategically or, or d-- from a defense standpoint, not that vulnerable, but we're going to have to pay the same higher prices as everyone else. And even, even the numbers around... Well, oil prices were down today because he claims to be having talks. There's now fear that, uh, he's sending combat troops and amphibious vehicles into the region, and that he's-

Kara Swisher 9:22 Then he said he wasn't, then he said he was, then he said he wasn't.

Scott Galloway 9:24 And then he said he was, and that they g-they're gonna try and maybe take the island of Qarg, which is responsible for ninety-five percent of the throughput in exchange for them opening Hormuz. The president of Finland said that Europe should support the efforts to, uh, escort ships through the Strait of Hormuz in exchange for Trump committing to supporting Ukraine. And what's interesting about-

Kara Swisher 9:45 Hmm

Scott Galloway 9:45 ... what's interesting, I think, or the dynamic I see emerging here is the key word that's coming out of both this and this war and the war in Ukraine is one word, asymmetry, and that is-- Well, two words, asymmetry and distraction, and that is, generally speaking, the world's powers shaped by economics and military strength, and if you go to the latter, military strength was a function of really expensive, sophisticated platforms of which only a few nations could produce a small number of them, and they were devastating. Now, it's moving to the following dynamic. A, a, um, a Shahed drone costs twenty-five to forty thousand dollars, but the Patriot missile to shoot it down costs four million.

Kara Swisher 10:30 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 10:30 And so all of a sudden, you have the ability to create cheap and cheerful massive armaments-

Kara Swisher 10:38 Yep

Scott Galloway 10:38 ... using AI and GPS that can overwhelm the most sophisticated machinery.

Kara Swisher 10:43 And speedboats. You know, I had that interview with, with Tenner Warner recently-

Scott Galloway 10:46 Zodiacs

Kara Swisher 10:46 ... where he talks about this. He's like-

Scott Galloway 10:48 Aircraft carriers versus Zodiacs.

Kara Swisher 10:49 Weeks ago, he's like, "Look, we're gonna lose 'cause this drone that costs nothing is gonna, you know, to ta-we-- is gonna hurt our ships or these, these Zodiacs or whatever it happens to be." But they have the ability to do this, and I think they miscalculated just how many of them Iran had and just how strong the government was. I think they-- I think both Israel and the United States thought there'd be a popular uprising. There hasn't been. Um, it certainly could happen, but it doesn't seem to be happening because, as Warner noted quite correctly, 'cause he does his homework, this group of people have, has a grip on power. They're a terrible group of people, but they, they are in control of this compa-country in a way that Trump did not seem to understand, I guess, or-

Scott Galloway 11:34 He didn't anticipate them attacking their neighbors. I think long-term, that's a strategic blunder on their part.

Kara Swisher 11:38 Probably.

Scott Galloway 11:38 But we used to worry that our aircraft carriers might be vulnerable to a Chinese hypersonic missile. It's not. They're vulnerable to hundreds of Zodiacs going thirty miles an hour. And i-i-i-i-also, I mean, g- I mean, it's the th- the reason why Ukraine has, despite unbelievable odds, been able to push back against a far superior military power and economy in Russia-

Kara Swisher 12:04 Trump

Scott Galloway 12:04 ... is the same reason that Iran is a greater threat and is able to create more disruption now than we had anticipated, and it's all comes down to this one word, asymmetry. And then the second word is distraction, and that is... And Fareed Zakaria did a fantastic piece on this. At the end of the, at the end of theUh, 20th century, Britain was the world's dominant superpower, controlling about a quarter of the world's GDP, very similar to what we control, and they got bogged down in a series of conflicts overseas that took away their political, their economic, and their military focus, and weakened them at home such that Germany could industrialize.

Kara Swisher 12:41 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 12:42 And the, we might be falling into the same trap, and there's this-

Kara Swisher 12:45 A little group of Americans with just guns and some moxie. You know, that's the kind of thing. I mean, you have to sort of make these historical links because no one would've thought we would've beaten the British, right? But we had more at stake, right? Or we had more reasons, and good reasons. Um, but I think the, the, I think the problem is, again, Trump equals chaos. It's like it doesn't have a point. The, this, this airline thing doesn't have a point. It's gonna hurt airlines, it's gonna hurt customers, it's gonna hurt travel and tourism. Uh, it's gonna get people not to travel. It's gonna hurt the economy in all manner of ways, and the same thing with this. It's gonna hurt everybody. Now, interestingly, with this oil and gas price spikes, uh, high prices are sparking more interest again in electric vehicles, which had seen a falloff, and searches for EV models are up quite a bit, 20% here in the US since Iran conflict begin. It's not just in the US. BYD dealerships across Asia are also seeing a spike in demand. Um, it's a really interesting moment because, yeah, for people who don't understand, let me tell you, range anxiety is really going away. It's in a way that's really significant. And so-

Scott Galloway 13:54 Wait, I'm sorry, you said range anxiety?

Kara Swisher 13:56 Range, range anxiety. Pe- anxiety. People worry about not being able... Their cars will run out of electric-

Scott Galloway 14:02 Oh, I see

Kara Swisher 14:02 ... essentially.

Scott Galloway 14:03 Excuse me, yeah.

Kara Swisher 14:03 And that is not, doesn't exist now. [laughs] It doesn't.

Scott Galloway 14:05 [laughs] What can take away anxiety? I'm in.

Kara Swisher 14:07 [laughs] Range anxiety.

Scott Galloway 14:07 I tried Xanax last night, and even that shit didn't work.

Kara Swisher 14:10 [laughs] No, just a plug. That's all you need is a plug, and these, all these-

Scott Galloway 14:13 Oh, I have several of those, but I do that for fun.

Kara Swisher 14:15 Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Scott Galloway 14:16 Oh, wait. No, I'm sorry.

Kara Swisher 14:17 [laughs]

Scott Galloway 14:17 An electric plug. Excuse me. Never mind.

Kara Swisher 14:19 That's really uncalled for. Anyway, electric vehicles are seeing a spike. This is not a surprise, but I have to say, uh, for the first time in my... I have a, have a gas car and an electric car. I'm thinking of just going all electric because I don't feel range anxi- That's the issue, is that I better have a car to get out of here in case of the apocalypse, essentially.

Scott Galloway 14:36 Well, that might be... Okay, so that might be, if there is a silver lining here-

Kara Swisher 14:40 Yeah

Scott Galloway 14:40 ... over the medium and the long term, it does put a rin... You know, a, a $60-a-barrel oil-

Kara Swisher 14:46 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 14:46 ... does not help alternative energy.

Kara Swisher 14:48 It doesn't.

Scott Galloway 14:50 And n- uh, uh, this m- I, I don't think this is gonna be worth the price. I've been more optimistic about the potential outcomes of this, this, what should've been a conflict or a military operation, not a war, than most people. But hopefully this does give a renewed focus on... I mean, if China hadn't busted a very strong move to alternatives, they would be really fucked, and they're still fucked, but it kind of renews the importance of being independent and not being subject to these-

Kara Swisher 15:19 Yeah

Scott Galloway 15:19 ... choke points around, around energy.

Kara Swisher 15:20 In a variety of ways, not just gas.

Scott Galloway 15:22 And actually, did I tell you this? Your-

Kara Swisher 15:24 Hmm

Scott Galloway 15:25 ... your ex-wife-

Kara Swisher 15:26 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 15:27 ... we spoke at... Where was I? Oh-

Kara Swisher 15:29 South by Southwest

Scott Galloway 15:30 ... South by Southwest.

Kara Swisher 15:30 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 15:31 And she ran after... Of course, my favorite South by Southwest moment was after a talk, she came up and started answering questions for me as people were asking me questions.

Kara Swisher 15:40 [laughs]

Scott Galloway 15:40 [laughs] And by the way, her answers were pretty good.

Kara Swisher 15:42 [laughs] She's very smart.

Scott Galloway 15:43 Anyways, she, this time she ran after me as I was headed out-

Kara Swisher 15:48 Oh, no

Scott Galloway 15:48 ... because I was talking about Iran and, and-

Kara Swisher 15:50 Could be anything

Scott Galloway 15:51 ... and she showed me this site.

Kara Swisher 15:53 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 15:53 And it shows at any given moment-

Kara Swisher 15:56 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 15:56 ... where Texans are getting their electricity-

Kara Swisher 15:59 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 15:59 ... for air conditioning and everything.

Kara Swisher 16:00 Oh, yeah, she's onto the Texan thing. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 16:01 And s- at that moment, she pulled it up, 60% of the electricity-

Kara Swisher 16:06 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 16:07 ... was coming from wind power-

Kara Swisher 16:08 Yeah

Scott Galloway 16:08 ... in Texas.

Kara Swisher 16:09 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 16:09 And another 18% was coming from solar. So Texas, which is supposed to be the epicenter of oil and gas and landmen-

Kara Swisher 16:16 Yeah

Scott Galloway 16:16 ... at that moment was getting 78% of its energy-

Kara Swisher 16:18 Yeah

Scott Galloway 16:18 ... as electricity-

Kara Swisher 16:19 Yeah

Scott Galloway 16:20 ... from, um, from renewables.

Kara Swisher 16:23 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 16:24 Anyways.

Kara Swisher 16:24 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 16:24 I, I, I, the, th- this is getting... It is so... The, the incompetence chickens are coming-

Kara Swisher 16:33 To roost

Scott Galloway 16:33 ... to roost.

Kara Swisher 16:34 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 16:35 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 16:35 You know, the right wing is going... The right-wing podcasters are really going after Hegseth and Trump on the war stuff, so.

Scott Galloway 16:40 And we need to be really thoughtful about, um, this whole notion of asymmetric warfare. It just... Y- you can't, and it's so interesting, they launched multiples of these drones, and they change altitude, so the GPS locator's trying to fight back, get confused. And then, but Ukraine is coming up with all sorts of, sorts of defense drones. It's just gonna open up an entirely different... I, I think you're gonna see massive, uh... And you, you actually pointed this out, that Ukraine, uh, is gonna, is gonna, a- a- assuming we ever get to something resembling a sta- a sustainable peace that gives people the confidence to invest-

Kara Swisher 17:19 Mm-hmm. Huge

Scott Galloway 17:20 ... you're gonna see an unbelievable, I think, technology boom there around defense.

Kara Swisher 17:24 I actually, if I were, like, advising my son, Alex, I'd be like, "Go to Ukraine when this is all over, and you will h- you will be a billionaire." [laughs] Like, it'll be... It's so ex- gonna be so exciting there, I think. There's corruption issues there, very s- significant, including with, uh, Zelenskyy's government, and it's def- uh, especially with Zelenskyy's government. But yes, it's absolutely an opportunity. What's really interesting here is, um, is, is again, all of this has chaos a- attached to it, and we do not need more chaos. Anyway, and by the way, on our 250th birthday coming up, guess who did this, that kind of t- military tactics? The US revolutionaries, um, in order to beat the very much more organized and much more, um, at the time, militarily, uh, superior British. Anyway, let's go on.

Scott Galloway 18:08 We didn't, but we just hid behind trees.

Kara Swisher 18:10 We hid behind trees. [laughs]

Scott Galloway 18:10 We refused to march in a first... We were, we refused to march in a straight line.

Kara Swisher 18:13 No, we didn't do marches. We did m- move and dash.

Scott Galloway 18:15 And, and, and have bright red coats that were great targets-

Kara Swisher 18:18 Right

Scott Galloway 18:18 ... at, at dusk and night.

Kara Swisher 18:19 Good targets, right? Yep. Yep. Am I just good?

Scott Galloway 18:20 So funny, you, you're in my algorithm. I g- I, I got served that great tomahawk scene of Mel Gibson with his-

Kara Swisher 18:26 Oh

Scott Galloway 18:26 ... him and his kids killing about 90-

Kara Swisher 18:28 YeahI can't stand Mel Gibson as Mel Gibson, but I love all his movies.

Scott Galloway 18:32 Oh, he's a fantastic actor.

Kara Swisher 18:33 One of my... I know, but he's a terrible person. Anyway, um, I do. I love all those movies. I hate that I love them, but I love them, every one of them.

Scott Galloway 18:40 Oh, he's a fantastic actor.

Kara Swisher 18:41 Anyway, that's The Patriot you're talking about.

Scott Galloway 18:43 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 18:43 That's The Patriot, yeah. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Elon loses in court. [gentle music] Support for this show comes from DeleteMe. DeleteMe makes it easy, quick, and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. When you sign up, the experts at DeleteMe do the heavy lifting of wiping you and your family's personal information from data broker websites. This isn't a one-time service. DeleteMe sends you regular personalized privacy reports showing what info they have found, where they found it, and what they removed. I've tried DeleteMe. I use it all the time, and I've found incredible the amount of information about me out there, a lot of it inaccurate, but all of it compiled in a way that's really disturbing. You don't have to take my word for it, though. Last year, The New York Times Wirecutter named DeleteMe their top pick for data removal services. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for DeleteMe now at a special discount to our listeners. Get twenty percent off your DeleteMe plan when you go to joindeleteme.com/pivot and use the promo code pivot at checkout. The only way to get twenty percent off is to go to joindeleteme.com/pivot and enter the code pivot at checkout. That's joindeleteme.com/pivot, code pivot. [gentle music] Support for this show comes from Mint Mobile. We all like our money. It keeps the lights on and lets us have fun. Unfortunately, big wireless companies also like your money, so much so that they come up with clever ways to squeeze more out of you each month. That's why Mint Mobile does things differently. They offer a premium wireless phone plan for just fifteen dollars a month. All of their plans come with high-speed 5G data and unlimited talk and text, and you don't need to bother getting a whole new phone or number, nor do you have to deal with long-term contracts. Just activate online in minutes and start saving immediately. No more expensive monthly phone bill riddled with unexpected fees. Get three months of premium wireless service from Mint Mobile for just fifteen bucks a month. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at mintmobile.com/pivot. That's mintmobile.com/pivot. Upfront payment for forty-five dollars for three-month, five gigabyte plan required, equivalent to fifteen dollars a month. For new customer offer for first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. [gentle music] Scott, we're

Kara Swisher 20:59 back with more news. A jury found Elon Musk liable for misleading Twitter investors in the run-up to his purchase of the platform in twenty twenty-two. Damages could reach up to two point six billion dollars. Musk's legal team obviously plans on appealing the ruling. He also, he also didn't have the, the worst of the, of the things he didn't-- the jury didn't find around fraud and everything else. Um, by the way, he's been very busy this week besides offering to pay TSA. He's, uh, busy. He's gotta shut up. I felt like that this week. He's busy keeping his hands in politics. He's been fixated on advocating for the passage of the Save America Act, a strict voter ID bill, attacking Sen- Majority Leader John Thune in the process, even though there's very little, um, evidence. And by the way, The New York Times is just outright saying it, that there, there is any voter fraud in these areas or examples of it. He's still holding influence in Ukraine, by the way, in a positive way, having cut off Russian forces' Starlink internet access last month. That's `cause they were getting them through the black market, the Russian forces using Starlink, and he cut them off. Very good. Good job, Elon. Let's give you kudos for that. And over at his other business, Tesla semi trucks are finally here, actually winning over truck drivers. This looks like a pretty good product. And, uh, Tesla says, uh, Tesla and SpaceX will launch Terafab chip project in Austin because semiconductor manufacturers aren't making chips fast enough. Um, that's not a surprise. I think everyone's doing that. Everyone's gonna be doing that. But sort of it's a mixed bag, he-- Uh, th-this, this jury trial, we'll see. He'll probably, like, exhaust them with appeal after appeal. But the jury didn't like what they heard, how he behaved, and, uh, he still has never paid for his misbehavior when it comes to the SEC and others. He tends to win or get off. Um, any thoughts on that or any of these topics?

Scott Galloway 22:36 The definition of market manipulation is what he engaged in. If I were on a board and I went out and, and said falsely on Twitter that as a board member with insider information, we have funding secured to take this company private at a forty percent premium to market, and the stock ran up, and then it ended up not to be true, and all the people who bought those shares at an elevated price, I think I'd be in jail. I know I could never serve-

Kara Swisher 23:00 He, he got off

Scott Galloway 23:00 ... on a board of directors again.

Kara Swisher 23:01 He got off, yeah.

Scott Galloway 23:02 But here's the problem. He's gonna be found... I think he's gonna be found guilty. I think he's gonna be fined two billion dollars, and it doesn't fucking matter. And the, the right answer here is, is just-

Kara Swisher 23:11 Well, he was found guilty. Let's... The damages in this, it's not guilty, it's liable.

Scott Galloway 23:14 But he'll appeal it, right?

Kara Swisher 23:15 He's appealing. But it's liable, not guilty, just so you know.

Scott Galloway 23:18 I, I think... Excuse me, because it's a civil case, it's liable. Thank you. But here's the, here's, here's the unfortunate thing. It doesn't fucking matter to him. And it's not a-- The point of a justice system is not only punishment, but it's to create incentives so people don't do things again, in, in not only criminally, but in civil litigation. And what we need to move to is what they're proposing with a wealth tax, and that is the whole point of a wealth tax is we're gonna take a percentage of your wealth. And now I'm against wealth tax, tasks, not theoretically or philosophically, but practically, they just don't work. But we need to move to some sort of proportionate civil liability fines, and that is the following. It's not a two billion dollar fine. It should be twenty percent of your net worth. And that is if you, if you commit this type of market manipulation that l- where people lose faith in the markets, you don't own two billion dollars. You owe twenty percent of your net worth. Uh, otherwise, what is the incentive not to do this again?

Kara Swisher 24:19 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 24:20 So-

Kara Swisher 24:20 Right

Scott Galloway 24:21 ... so a- and the same thing should be happened, uh, should happen with when Meta has, is, when Meta is found guilty of creating addictive products and so is Alphabet, it shouldn't be-

Kara Swisher 24:31 That's the other case

Scott Galloway 24:32 ... it shouldn't be a billion dollar fine.

Kara Swisher 24:33 Right.

Scott Galloway 24:33 It should be 10% of the market capitalization.

Kara Swisher 24:35 Yeah, but it won't be. So what's go- like here, the juries... Now, it's interesting, it wasn't a judge trial. They decided to do a jury trial, so jurors do not like this guy, obviously.

Scott Galloway 24:43 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 24:43 And he's, he very clearly-

Scott Galloway 24:45 He's not a sympathetic character

Kara Swisher 24:46 ... he's not a sympathetic character anymore, and he has gotten off on the pedo thing. He got off on the 420 thing. He got off on funding secure. He's gotten off over and over again. And what he, either, he either wears people down or continues to attack, right? When he lost in, in court to the Center for, um, Countering Digital Hate, he went back again, or he pushed the government into bothering the, the person who founded it. I mean, this is the thing, is he just keeps on coming. And like this fixation on the Save Act, which is evidence-free, um, that it, there's issues that they're trying to solve here. And at the same time, here he is doing this kind of cool technology in Ukraine or the truck or the, the... I don't know if he's gonna be successful in the chip project, but I wish he would just do that, right?

Scott Galloway 25:32 There could be-

Kara Swisher 25:33 You know what I mean?

Scott Galloway 25:33 I mean, um, I was gonna say it's called Pivot, but there could be a podcast just called Musk, he creates so much news. I mean, the guy is a big thinker and creates a lot of news. Look, I am, I am super excited about the prospect. I, I'm... Anything that helps the brave people of Ukraine and their army defend against Russia and push back on it, I, I applaud. I applaud Elon for doing this. I'm thrilled about it. At the same time, it represents something much scarier, and that is there shouldn't be one individual-

Kara Swisher 26:09 One person

Scott Galloway 26:09 ... that has the ability, who is unelected and not subject to any sort of, I, I mean-

Kara Swisher 26:15 What he feels like. I'm just kidding

Scott Galloway 26:16 ... the biggest criticism, I would argue the big, one of the-

Kara Swisher 26:18 See if he got molly from the lady in the bathroom. Anyway.

Scott Galloway 26:20 [laughs] One of the most valid criticisms of Trump's unilateral war with just one other country is he didn't even, he didn't even get any sort of advice or approval from Congress, much less do, do what George Herbert Walker Bush did, and that is get-

Kara Swisher 26:34 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 26:34 ... a consent or get approval from the UN. He acted, some people would argue, unilaterally. Now, a lot of people would say, he didn't act unilaterally, he got 79 million votes. Okay. Ch- Musk is changing the face of war, fortunately, for what I think is in the right direction.

Kara Swisher 26:51 In this case.

Scott Galloway 26:52 But should... That's right. But should one man be able to accrete so much-

Kara Swisher 26:55 Yep

Scott Galloway 26:55 ... wealth and technical-

Kara Swisher 26:56 No

Scott Galloway 26:56 ... mastery that he or she can change the course of civilization and war? It, this is... We keep talking about the wisdom of crowds. The ignorance of the individual is really frightening.

Kara Swisher 27:07 Yeah. Ooh, I like that.

Scott Galloway 27:08 And, and that is-

Kara Swisher 27:09 The ignorance. The wisdom of crowd, the ignorance-

Scott Galloway 27:10 I just made that up. I think the molly's kicking in.

Kara Swisher 27:12 I like it, see? You always do things like this.

Scott Galloway 27:14 There you go.

Kara Swisher 27:14 You're so smart.

Scott Galloway 27:14 You're just being nice to me because we got-

Kara Swisher 27:16 No, we

Scott Galloway 27:16 ... in an argument this weekend.

Kara Swisher 27:17 We did. We did.

Scott Galloway 27:18 The-

Kara Swisher 27:18 But now that's done

Scott Galloway 27:20 ... the, it, it is dan- power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts. And we should not have any individual that accretes so much wealth and power and technical sophistication that they can change the course of civilization.

Kara Swisher 27:33 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 27:33 Now, some people would argue that Napoleon did that-

Kara Swisher 27:37 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 27:37 ... or Genghis Khan.

Kara Swisher 27:38 Or Hitler.

Scott Galloway 27:38 But these people were incredibly-

Kara Swisher 27:40 There's lots of people who've done that

Scott Galloway 27:41 ... but they were incredibly savvy, and they worked their way through power, uh, structures, and ultimately, ultimately they fell. But I am uncomfortable with someone who is not elected by people, who's not accountable to anybody, who can pay his way out of or appeal his way out of any civil or possibly criminal... I mean, Christ, I, I hate to go here. The only person in prison from the Epstein files is a woman.

Kara Swisher 28:06 Right.

Scott Galloway 28:06 And so it's, it's, okay, if, if-

Kara Swisher 28:08 She should be there.

Scott Galloway 28:10 I- I'm not arguing that. Uh-

Kara Swisher 28:11 Right

Scott Galloway 28:12 ... my, my belief is there should be other people [laughs] in the cells next to her.

Kara Swisher 28:15 Yes, one agrees. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 28:16 Anyways, there-

Kara Swisher 28:16 It looks like they shut down a lot of these investigations right at the beginning of the Trump administration-

Scott Galloway 28:20 But what happens when-

Kara Swisher 28:22 ... but they're still recording

Scott Galloway 28:23 ... uh, what, but what happens if Musk all of a sudden decides, "I'm pissed off with the left criticizing me, I'll show them," and he turns off Starlink in the middle of a, a ground offensive trying to push Russia, trying to push Ukraine out of-

Kara Swisher 28:36 Yeah

Scott Galloway 28:36 ... you know, uh, uh-

Kara Swisher 28:37 I'm just telling you, it's up to the lady in the bathroom with molly.

Scott Galloway 28:40 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 28:40 That's the problem.

Scott Galloway 28:42 But that-

Kara Swisher 28:42 Seriously

Scott Galloway 28:42 ... that's, that kind of, that, but that kind of summarizes it, right?

Kara Swisher 28:45 What does he feel like today? Did he get, did he have a nice night-

Scott Galloway 28:48 What's his blood sugar?

Kara Swisher 28:48 ... with his lady friend, or did he have a bad fight with his children?

Scott Galloway 28:50 So to a certain extent, Donald Trump in some ways, well-

Kara Swisher 28:53 Yeah

Scott Galloway 28:54 ... I mean, he's more dangerous, but what's more dangerous, someone who commands-

Kara Swisher 28:56 Oh

Scott Galloway 28:56 ... U.S. military-

Kara Swisher 28:58 Musk. Musk

Scott Galloway 28:58 ... or someone who commands 2/3 of the world's-

Kara Swisher 29:01 Well, Trump

Scott Galloway 29:01 ... low earth satellites-

Kara Swisher 29:03 Yeah

Scott Galloway 29:04 ... but has-

Kara Swisher 29:04 I say Musk. Musk by a country mile

Scott Galloway 29:06 ... but is, but is not elected by the public.

Kara Swisher 29:08 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 29:08 I mean, you can make the argument that, okay-

Kara Swisher 29:10 No, 'cause, no, you can't

Scott Galloway 29:11 ... we chose Trump.

Kara Swisher 29:12 We did, we didn't, but, but Congress, uh-

Scott Galloway 29:14 Yeah

Kara Swisher 29:14 ... we also, well, believe in three parts of government, and that's been-

Scott Galloway 29:18 Uh, agreed, but he has more legitimacy-

Kara Swisher 29:20 Correct

Scott Galloway 29:21 ... he has more legitimacy to make these type of decisions-

Kara Swisher 29:23 Yes

Scott Galloway 29:23 ... than Musk.

Kara Swisher 29:24 Yes, but not this decision.

Scott Galloway 29:25 So I, when I first heard this, I'm like-

Kara Swisher 29:27 Yeah

Scott Galloway 29:27 ... "Oh, that's great. Good for him."

Kara Swisher 29:29 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 29:29 I even put out a thread saying, "Well done, Elon Musk."

Kara Swisher 29:32 Mm-hmm. And then you thought, "Fuck."

Scott Galloway 29:34 And then I thought, "Fuck."

Kara Swisher 29:35 You know?

Scott Galloway 29:35 What, what... I don't, I want him to have to go to-

Kara Swisher 29:38 Yeah

Scott Galloway 29:38 ... Senators Kelly, Klobuchar, the Joint Chiefs-

Kara Swisher 29:41 Yeah

Scott Galloway 29:41 ... of Staff.

Kara Swisher 29:41 What should I do? He may have. Who knows?

Scott Galloway 29:42 And Senator Warner. You think he might have?

Kara Swisher 29:44 I don't know. I don't know.

Scott Galloway 29:45 He might be coordinating.

Kara Swisher 29:46 I don't know. Who knows?

Scott Galloway 29:47 That's a fair point. Maybe he's coordinating with our Joint-

Kara Swisher 29:49 I doubt it

Scott Galloway 29:49 ... Joint Chiefs.

Kara Swisher 29:50 I doubt it. Who knows? I, I, I suspect he's probably in... I mean, I don't know. When I got approached many years ago by that Ukrainian defense person asking if I could call him to turn, to stop geofencing Crimea, I was astonished. And they were like, "Could you do that?" I'm like, "Why is one person deciding this?" Like, why isn't the go- I remember that's where it's, the, was the center of our beef at the... I was, uh, it was... Anyway, um, in speaking-

Scott Galloway 30:16 But, but also I do wanna say, I do think just calling balls and strikes-

Kara Swisher 30:19 Yeah

Scott Galloway 30:20 ... I think the-The Tesla semi-truck is a winner

Kara Swisher 30:23 Looks great. Looks great

Scott Galloway 30:24 I think it's a winner

Kara Swisher 30:24 Looks great. We give you it that it looks good. We'll see how, how if they can roll it out, but it looks great. Um, agreed. Agreed. It looked... I was looking, I was reading all about it this week, and it looks fantastic.

Scott Galloway 30:33 And not only that, but that is, that-

Kara Swisher 30:35 He could make innovative things. That's where he should focus

Scott Galloway 30:37 Well, the guy, the guy is clearly a genius, all right?

Kara Swisher 30:39 Stop focusing on hate, Elon. Focus on the things you do that are good

Scott Galloway 30:43 And I've always thought that-

Kara Swisher 30:44 It's not gonna work

Scott Galloway 30:44 ... ground zero, grou- the most obvious autonomous-

Kara Swisher 30:48 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 30:48 ... something like ninety percent of the damage-

Kara Swisher 30:50 Trucks

Scott Galloway 30:50 ... done to our highways is trucks.

Kara Swisher 30:51 Right. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 30:52 And you talk about a, a, a, ten to four, a ten PM to four AM, it's not a great job. It's not a healthy job. So it, it's always felt like if there's, if there's ground zero for autonomous, I've always thought it's long-haul trucking.

Kara Swisher 31:07 Yep. You should look at my interviews with the Aurora CEO, Chris Urmson, who started Google, the Google autonomy.

Scott Galloway 31:13 How is... Well, I was gonna say how is Aurora doing, but I don't wanna go there.

Kara Swisher 31:15 Yeah, I don't-- I'm just saying, I love all these efforts, and I'm thrilled that-

Scott Galloway 31:18 But the truck looks like-

Kara Swisher 31:19 ... that the Tesla truck-

Scott Galloway 31:19 I've never wanted to own a semi tractor trailer.

Kara Swisher 31:21 It looks awesome. You're not getting one

Scott Galloway 31:21 Like, I'd like one of those.

Kara Swisher 31:22 You are absolutely not getting one. Never. I don't, I don't think you've ever driven me anywhere, and I don't think you're ever going to. Um, the Trump [chuckles] administration-

Scott Galloway 31:30 I'm a great driver. I grew up in California on stick from the age of fifteen and a half.

Kara Swisher 31:32 I understand.

Scott Galloway 31:33 I'm a great driver.

Kara Swisher 31:33 But I, we have never, you have never driven me in a car, and vice versa.

Scott Galloway 31:35 Well, what do you want? Two sensitive men so both people can be crying in the car and the parallel parking spot remains unparked?

Kara Swisher 31:40 [laughs] I have driven you. I have driven you in a car, but I don't think you've ever driven me in a car.

Scott Galloway 31:43 You're, you are, you're a good driver.

Kara Swisher 31:45 Yeah, I know.

Scott Galloway 31:45 It was in a Mini or in an Au... What is it?

Kara Swisher 31:46 I don't think anyone would say that.

Scott Galloway 31:47 It was in an Austin or an Astro.

Kara Swisher 31:48 I'm an angry driver. I try not to drive as much as I can. Anyway, let's finish the-

Scott Galloway 31:52 You had to sit on two phone books. That was a little unsettling.

Kara Swisher 31:54 No, [chuckles] no, you didn't. You're a big guy. Anyway, the Trump administration-

Scott Galloway 31:57 No, you did. To see out the steering wheel, you had to look through it

Kara Swisher 31:58 ... I put you in a Mini. I did. I put you in a Mini. I sit way up front.

Kara Swisher 32:02 So the Trump administration has also unveiled a national, speaking of control of tech oligarchs over our government, unveiled a national AI framework to replace state-by-state rules with one federal standard. The framework proposes regulations like child safety rules and standards for energy use of data centers. It calls on Congress to address issues like intellectual property rights and preventing AI systems from being used to silence or censor lawful political expression or dissent. The administration says it wants to work with Congress to convert the framework into a bill in the coming months. I mean, I'm sorry. They are so... Everyone involved in the government right now is a tech industry shill. So it-- this is not-- The states have passed, I think, seventy-one laws in tw-twenty-seven states. It is chaotic. At the same time, the government has abrogated all power to these tech companies, so I don't, I, I don't think any good will come of this. Your thoughts?

Scott Galloway 32:53 [sighs] There needs to be federal legislation.

Kara Swisher 32:56 Absolutely.

Scott Galloway 32:57 Uh, because if California, in an attempt to maintain its economic growth, uh, all of a sudden puts in place technologies that might inhibit the growth, such as, okay, you can't use AI for surveillance of Americans. I mean, the CIA has a rule. Essentially, the, one of the most covert organizations in the world, which I, by the way, think is the only organization in history that can keep a secret, th-they, they have a rule. You can't... They don't kill American citizens. There needs to be, there needs to be regulation and legislation around AI, and it needs to be a thoughtful discussion, and then... But what I hate is just a, all of a sudden, a, a race to the bottom around AI where, okay, Texas says it's a free-for-all, and you can use it to surveil Americans or create, uh-

Kara Swisher 33:46 I, I get it. It's just our government has not, our federal government, they never made so-

Scott Galloway 33:50 Yeah

Kara Swisher 33:50 ... social media laws.

Scott Galloway 33:51 Fair point.

Kara Swisher 33:51 They've never made privacy laws.

Scott Galloway 33:52 Well, they're not making laws. What they're saying is have at it.

Kara Swisher 33:53 They're not doing this to create better laws. They're doing it to get everyone out of tech's way.

Scott Galloway 33:59 To delay and obfuscate-

Kara Swisher 34:01 That's right

Scott Galloway 34:01 ... any attempt to regulate.

Kara Swisher 34:02 That's right.

Scott Galloway 34:02 Yeah, I think that's right.

Kara Swisher 34:02 If they were doing it for-- They would get together with Congress and do actual laws that are in everybody's interests, uh, and, and that, and that tech would be a voice of many in this thing. They don't wanna... Let me say, this is yet another attempt to abrogate. States are the only groups that are doing something somewhat effective, and they shouldn't be doing it. But they have to because the government has lo- the federal government has lost all responsibility for regulating what is a very frightening situation, uh, that we should all be cooperating, not just in this country, but globally around AI safety, where it's going, who's, you know, on jobs, on child safety, on cancer research, on everything. There should be rules about surveilling citizens, uh, et cetera, et cetera. We are not-- This is not an administration I trust to do it because everyone in a position of power has someone else behind them who is in tech, and they are all grabbing for things. Thank you.

Scott Galloway 34:59 Oh, in twenty twenty-five, seven of the largest AI companies in America, Snap, X, OpenAI, ByteDance, Microsoft, Alphabet, and Meta, spent over fifty million dollars-

Kara Swisher 35:07 Yep

Scott Galloway 35:07 ... on federal lobbying. By the way, best ROI in history is not AI or CapEx, it's lobbying. And in twenty twenty-five, hired eighty-seven lobbyists, roughly one of every six members of Congress. OpenAI has ramped up its lobbying spend nearly seventy percent from last year. What's interesting is one of the greatest brand declines in history over this, over the shortest period of time, AI.

Kara Swisher 35:34 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 35:34 Think about-

Kara Swisher 35:35 Yeah

Scott Galloway 35:35 ... how excited we were-

Kara Swisher 35:36 Now we have to worry about AI

Scott Galloway 35:37 ... about AI just twenty-four months ago. One, a Pew Research poll found that Americans are five times more concerned than excited about AI. There are roughly double the amount of Americans who think AI's effect on society will be negative than there are people who think it'll be positive.

Kara Swisher 35:54 Worst brand destruction. You're right.

Scott Galloway 35:57 It, it, the brand erosion in AI is historic.

Kara Swisher 36:00 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 36:00 Two-thirds of Americans think that AI will eliminate more jobs than it creates, and less than a third of Americans trust AI, and three-quarters of Americans think AI poses a threat to humanity.

Kara Swisher 36:11 Existential threat. Let me just say, ahead of the midterms, Silicon Valley has poured a hundred million dollars into a network of PACs and organizations to advocate for these strict AI regulations. And a report from Public Citizen found that one in four federal lobbyists now work in AI. Think about... Why do you think they're working there, kids?They're not to help you, they're, they're there to help them, and they have the White House captive. In any case, it would be a great idea to do some bills, but not with this administration, not in its current form.

Scott Galloway 36:40 This is the opening for a Democrat.

Kara Swisher 36:42 That's right.

Scott Galloway 36:42 I spoke to someone this morning running for president, and they're-- no one on the Democratic side has been able to say, "We need federal AI regulation focused on these three things."

Kara Swisher 36:53 Yep.

Scott Galloway 36:53 No one has been able to articulate-

Kara Swisher 36:56 To begin with

Scott Galloway 36:56 ... what is needed around regulation in AI, and it is a real opening for one of them because it's the technology of the day.

Kara Swisher 37:03 Yep.

Scott Galloway 37:03 It has got-- It's created a huge amount of anxiety, and yet-

Kara Swisher 37:06 Yes, indeed

Scott Galloway 37:06 ... no one has been able to articulate a vision for what re- sensible regulation that protects Americans while, while ensuring that our thoroughbreds continue to run because there really is economic value, and we don't want to hamstring our best and brightest such that China gets out ahead. There are real concerns on both sides, but someone needs to thread the needle here and come out and say, "AI regulation at a federal legislation focused on the following, you know, three things." It's a big opening for a Democrat.

Kara Swisher 37:34 It is. You know, you-- I just did a two-hour interview with Tristan Harris. He said the exact same thing. It's a big opening for them.

Scott Galloway 37:40 Tristan.

Kara Swisher 37:41 Tristan. He's so good. You know, we've been talking for ten years about this issue. Just-

Scott Galloway 37:45 Yeah, no, he was early to the-

Kara Swisher 37:47 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 37:47 ... to the I hate big tech game.

Kara Swisher 37:49 No, he doesn't hate it.

Scott Galloway 37:49 He's very compelling too.

Kara Swisher 37:50 You are incorrect. He does not. He's like Kara Swisher. He does not hate it. He doesn't like what they're doing with-- But they've made a mess of our house. That's how I feel. Anyway, let's go on a quick break.

Scott Galloway 37:59 I feel shamed.

Kara Swisher 38:00 Right, you should.

Scott Galloway 38:00 I feel shamed.

Kara Swisher 38:01 Here's a great new documentary coming on called The Apocaloptimist. It's a AI apocal-- He's both positive and negative about it and-

Scott Galloway 38:08 Apocaloptimist?

Kara Swisher 38:09 Apocaloptimist. It's called the AI doc.

Scott Galloway 38:12 Isn't that a creature that lives at thirty thousand feet below the surface?

Kara Swisher 38:14 It's an apocaloptimist.

Scott Galloway 38:14 It's sperm whales or something?

Kara Swisher 38:15 No, it lives in the bathroom with the woman who has mollys.

Scott Galloway 38:18 Apocaloptimist.

Kara Swisher 38:18 Anyway, let's go [chuckles] on a quick break. When we come-

Scott Galloway 38:21 I think I have a bum blog named the Apocaloptimist. [laughs]

Kara Swisher 38:21 You should have them. All right. Apocaloptimist. All right. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Nexstar is approved to merge with rival Tegna.

Scott Galloway 38:29 [upbeat music] Support for the show comes from Vanta. Risk and regulation, if you're a business owner, you probably know that both are on the rise, and your customers need to know your proof of security. But earning that trust can be expensive and time-consuming. Vanta says that's the challenge they're designed to solve. Vanta automates compliance to bring risk management and customer trust together on a single AI-powered platform. It helps companies achieve and maintain compliance across more than thirty-five security and privacy frameworks, including SOC 2, ISO 27001, and HIPAA. The result, faster compliance, less manual work, and more time to focus on growth-driving opportunities. So if you're tired of sifting through old audits and spreadsheets, you can get a system that's always working in the background, keeping you compliant, reducing risk, and helping your business scale fast and with confidence. Vanta says that companies including Ramp and Rider spend eighty-two percent less time on audits with Vanta. That's not just faster compliance, it's more time for growth. You can get started at vanta.com/pivot. That's V-A-N-T-A.com/pivot, vanta.com/pivot.

Kara Swisher 39:32 [upbeat music] Support for this show comes from ShipStation. When your company is growing fast, order fulfillment can make or break your success. ShipStation's intelligence-driven platform brings order management, rate shopping, inventory and returns, warehouse systems, and comprehensive analytics all in one place, saving customers fifteen hours per week on fulfillment. With ShipStation, everything you need to manage getting your product to customers is in one place. You can connect to over two hundred sales channels, and instead of five to seven disconnected tools, you've got one. You can also set up time-saving automations. ShipStation picks the best carrier, finds you the best rate, prints labels in bulk, and sends tracking updates. Done. Share tracking details can cut customer service inquiries by twelve percent. Returns management can give you data on what's coming back and why. And analytics can show you where you're saving and where to optimize. Try ShipStation for free for sixty days with full access to all features. No credit card needed. Go to shipstation.com and use the code pivot for sixty days for free. Sixty days gives you plenty of time to see exactly how much time and money you're saving on every shipment. That's shipstation.com, code pivot, shipstation.com, code pivot. Scott, we're back

Kara Swisher 40:50 with more news. Broadcast station owner Nexstar will merge with rival Tegna after the FCC signed off on the six point two billion dollar acquisition, creating the largest operator of TV stations in the country. This is unprecedented. The commission has waived a rule that bars a single company from owning TV stations that reach over thirty-nine percent of the US households. Guess what? The new entity, uh, is allowing Nexstar to own sixty percent, a near doubling. The combined company would own over two hundred and fifty stations, reaching over half of American households. Eight states have filed emergency motions to stop the merger. As usual, Brendan Carr, the bureaucratic toady, just waved it right through because it's, they're conservative, and they are, um, uh, and they are-- they were thanking President Trump. They're the people behind the Kimmel mask. They're one of the people. Uh, conservatives are actually split on the issue, um, some thinking it's a great thing because it helps the conservative side, their team. The other people feel, as correctly, you wouldn't like it if a bunch of liberals own these, like, sixty percent of the stations. That said, mainstream media has leaned, well, it's leaned middle-left, middle-left kind of things. Um, just what do you think about this? I mean, obviously, this is open. This is something-- this is Rupert Murdoch's wet dream from many years ago, the ability to own things across the country. Although, who's watching local news at the same time?

Scott Galloway 42:06 I'll tell you who's watching local news. Really old people.

Kara Swisher 42:08 Yeah, exactly.

Scott Galloway 42:09 And I could program local news. It's called What Stupid People Did Today.

Kara Swisher 42:12 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 42:12 Two people were mugged in a-

Kara Swisher 42:13 Yeah

Scott Galloway 42:13 ... two people were mugged in a parking lot at four AM this morning.

Kara Swisher 42:16 Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Galloway 42:17 Um-

Kara Swisher 42:18 Or the it could happen to you story.

Scott Galloway 42:20 And the weather.

Kara Swisher 42:20 Killer bees.

Scott Galloway 42:21 And the weather. [laughs]

Kara Swisher 42:23 It could happen to you.

Scott Galloway 42:24 Yeah. And the weather.

Kara Swisher 42:24 Molds on your penis. It could happen to you.

Scott Galloway 42:27 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 42:28 Sorry.

Scott Galloway 42:28 Is, is, is your-- Are you losing hair because of your drinking water? Um-

Kara Swisher 42:32 Could happen to you.

Scott Galloway 42:34 I'm, I'm torn because the idea of any one entityControlling that much information flow to a populace that disproportionately votes, it, it feels, feels uncomfortable. At the same time, um, these companies are in structural decline, and the only way they survive is through consolidation and cost-cutting. I was on the board, uh, uh, it's now time for the latest episode of Scott's Weak Flexes. I was on the board of a company that was a Yellow Pages company.

Kara Swisher 43:05 Oh.

Scott Galloway 43:06 And-

Kara Swisher 43:06 I didn't know that one

Scott Galloway 43:07 ... it's one of my best investments because typically these companies, we know, we know local stations are fucked, but they're not, they're not gonna go out of business as quickly as people think. So for example, in 1999 you could buy a Blockbuster. Everyone knew Blockbuster was going away, but in 1999 you could buy a Blockbuster franchise for two times cash flow, and they did go away, but they went away 13 years later, meaning you, you four, sixed extra money.

Kara Swisher 43:29 There's a lot of money. Yeah, yeah.

Scott Galloway 43:30 So you can buy these things at pretty distressed prices, and then you need to consolidate the back end. Back to the Yellow Pages company. We knew that the Yellow Pages business was gonna go away. You could buy these things at two times cash flow. So we would go buy every regional Yellow Pages company, quite frankly consolidate the l- back end, which is Latin for lay off everyone but the salespeople, and then we went and bought the biggest Yellow Pages company in Canada, and then the biggest one in Australia. And it's a great business. Now, to a certain extent, is that bad? Is that too much concentration of power? So these companies are melting ice cubes. They need to consolidate-

Kara Swisher 44:07 Well, they were when the Yellow Pages mattered, but go ahead. Which they did, kids.

Scott Galloway 44:12 But it's the same thing here. The, these businesses are going out of business slowly. And, uh, so I'm, I'm of two minds. I don't trust this FTC to make these decisions. I'd wanna see an economist say-

Kara Swisher 44:25 FCC.

Scott Galloway 44:26 I'm sorry, the FCC. I'd wanna see an economist issue or thoughtful people say that the, the risk of job destruction, the risk of having the capital to do anything regarding investigative journal- journalism at city hall or the local, you know, lo- local courthouse, that these guys need to consolidate. Having said that, this level of concentration feels pretty unhealthy.

Kara Swisher 44:49 Yeah, yeah, 60 is a lot. I think you're right. I, it, uh, you know, when... Remember we were on, when we were on the tour, and, you know, a l- or it was on one thing, and everyone was asking me about CBS, and I'm like, "Show of hands of who's watching it."

Scott Galloway 45:00 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 45:00 And it was like no one.

Scott Galloway 45:02 It's not relevant.

Kara Swisher 45:03 A- and I thought, so we're worried about one irritating person at a station that's, that, you know, a network that's declining faster than all the others, by the way. The other two are doing okay. They're double in size, essentially. I was like, "So no one's watching it, and even the strongest player is slowly dying, you know, who's doing okay." And they'll definitely throw off a lot of money, right? Like your Yellow Pages thing did, right? Now they throw off a lot of money.

Scott Galloway 45:28 In, in, in 2000, 17%-

Kara Swisher 45:30 Mm

Scott Galloway 45:30 ... of America watched the Academy Awards. You know what-

Kara Swisher 45:32 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 45:32 ... percentage watched last week?

Kara Swisher 45:33 It went down, right? Like three.

Scott Galloway 45:36 5%.

Kara Swisher 45:36 Yeah, yeah. That's the thing. And so you're sort of sitting there, and you're like, "Okay, it's really irritating and grotesque," and at the same time, but of this consolidation and these people that are doing, you know, performative, you know, uh, blowjobs to Donald Trump, which they were, you know, around Kimmel and everything else.

Scott Galloway 45:53 There's no such thing as a performative blowjob.

Kara Swisher 45:54 Well, okay. All right.

Scott Galloway 45:54 That's an oxymoron.

Kara Swisher 45:55 I don't know. I have never done one. Um, I'm not gonna go into the messages.

Scott Galloway 45:58 I'm not gonna touch that.

Kara Swisher 46:00 I'm not... Don't touch it, 'cause, but I haven't.

Scott Galloway 46:01 I finally have a filter that says-

Kara Swisher 46:02 I haven't

Scott Galloway 46:02 ... "You should say nothing, Scott."

Kara Swisher 46:03 Let me say I haven't.

Scott Galloway 46:04 You should say nothing.

Kara Swisher 46:04 I have had sex with a man, but I have not had, done a blowjob. Anyway, thank you for that information, 'cause I, that's gross. Um-

Scott Galloway 46:10 Well, you know Taylor Swift-

Kara Swisher 46:12 [laughs]

Scott Galloway 46:12 ... writes all these, writes all these-

Kara Swisher 46:13 Yeah

Scott Galloway 46:13 ... songs about men breaking up with her-

Kara Swisher 46:15 Yeah

Scott Galloway 46:15 ... but she's never written a song about blowjobs. Connect the dots.

Kara Swisher 46:18 Okay. All right.

Scott Galloway 46:18 Connect the dots.

Kara Swisher 46:19 [laughs] Okay. All right. Um, in any case, um, I had the most interesting... Anyway, I'm not gonna go into it.

Scott Galloway 46:25 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 46:25 Um, [laughs] so I have a whole gay Taylor thing called the g- my gayl- Gaylor playlist on Spotify. Listen to Cornelia Street is all I can tell you, to everybody. Um, so let me get, what am I, get, getting back on track. Uh, it, you're right.

Scott Galloway 46:39 Oh, right. You've been thrown off by the, uh, areas.

Kara Swisher 46:41 I've been thrown off track by blowjobs. Um, I don't, I don't think it matters, and yet it does because these, they do have an impact on a certain population, and watching someone like my mom or other people get twisted by propaganda on, say, a Fox News, it does actually matter, right? It's really bad information. That said, I don't think most of these local stations, except for a s- very small few, ha- do journalism anymore. So it does, does-

Scott Galloway 47:06 But they matter in local politics.

Kara Swisher 47:08 That's right. That, but they don't do much journalism.

Scott Galloway 47:11 Hearst-

Kara Swisher 47:11 And I don't think they matter much.

Scott Galloway 47:12 Hearst did-

Kara Swisher 47:13 So

Scott Galloway 47:13 ... Hearst did this genius move, and it went and bought all the local news stations in swing districts because basically, uh, the dirty secret of specialty retail is that for 45 weeks a year it loses money, and then for seven weeks-

Kara Swisher 47:26 Yeah

Scott Galloway 47:26 ... it just rakes in a shit ton of money, basically-

Kara Swisher 47:27 Mm-hmm

Scott Galloway 47:27 ... between Thanksgiving and Christmas. The dirty secret of these local news stations in these swing districts-

Kara Swisher 47:32 Politics

Scott Galloway 47:32 ... is they lose money for 22 months, and then for two months they quintuple their ad rates as so-and-so-

Kara Swisher 47:37 Right

Scott Galloway 47:38 ... overspends-

Kara Swisher 47:38 Political

Scott Galloway 47:38 ... trying to, you know, trying to be the local representative.

Kara Swisher 47:42 Yeah. That's where it hurts.

Scott Galloway 47:43 The, but do you know, do you know the average age of a Fox viewer? The average.

Kara Swisher 47:48 69, 70.

Scott Galloway 47:48 That's exactly right.

Kara Swisher 47:51 I, I think that's young.

Scott Galloway 47:53 Uh, uh, so w- w- that means that if a 40-year-old accidentally turns on Fox-

Kara Swisher 47:59 Yeah

Scott Galloway 47:59 ... a 97-year-old is also watching.

Kara Swisher 48:00 Yeah.

Scott Galloway 48:00 Do you know what the average-

Kara Swisher 48:02 Yeah

Scott Galloway 48:02 ... age of a local TV s- uh, do you know the average-

Kara Swisher 48:05 Probably similar

Scott Galloway 48:05 ... age of a local TV news viewer?

Kara Swisher 48:07 70, 80.

Scott Galloway 48:07 Dead. They're dead, Kara.

Kara Swisher 48:09 [laughs]

Scott Galloway 48:10 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 48:10 All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

Scott Galloway 48:14 [upbeat music] Support for today's show comes from SelectQuote. Life insurance, it can get confusing. If you already have a policy, do you know how much you're paying for it, and do you know how much coverage you're actually getting? There's a good chance you're paying too much for too little. It's not always the easiest thing to think about, but getting it right can be simple with SelectQuote. For over 40 years, SelectQuote has been one of the most trusted brokers in insurance, helping more than two million Americans secure over $700 billion in coverage. Their mission is simple, to find you the right insurance policy for your unique needs. They shop, you save. And if you don't have a medical exam, it's no problem. SelectQuote partners with providers that offer same-day coverage for up to $2 million. No doctor's visit required. When you connect with SelectQuote, a licensed insurance agent can reach out right away to help you find a policy that fits both your life and your budget.Life insurance is never cheaper than it is today. Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than fifty percent at selectquote.com/pivot. Save more than fifty percent on term life insurance at selectquote.com/pivot today to get started. That's selectquote.com/pivot. [upbeat music] Support for the show comes from Upwork. The fastest growing businesses aren't doing more quickly, they're simply delegating smarter. And with Upwork, you can bring in expert freelance fast, so you can keep moving forward for the long haul. Upwork is a one-stop platform to find, hire, and pay expert freelancers across web and software development, data and analytics, marketing, and business operations. Upwork can help grow your business by giving you fast access to specialized talent across a hundred and twenty-five plus categories. You can fill skill gaps, launch projects faster, and scale support up or down without committing to full-time headcount. And with Upwork Business Plus, you can access the top one percent of talent on Upwork and with AI-powered shortlisting, so you'll get matched to the right freelancer in under six hours. No endless searching required. Thousands of growing businesses already trust Upwork to hire flexible, high-quality freelance talent for everything from one-off projects to ongoing support. It's free to sign up, and posting a job is easy. You can visit upwork.com right now to post your job for free and connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com, upwork.com.

Kara Swisher 50:26 [whooshing sound] Okay, Scott, let's

Kara Swisher 50:29 hear some wins and fails. May I go first?

Scott Galloway 50:31 Of course.

Kara Swisher 50:32 I'm gonna do a win. Let me just tell you, Project Hail Mary just brought in eighty million dollars at the box office. That's a record opening for Amazon-

Scott Galloway 50:39 Did you see it?

Kara Swisher 50:39 ... MGM. I did. I went on Friday night.

Scott Galloway 50:42 I heard it's about friendship. I'm sorry to interrupt you.

Kara Swisher 50:43 It is, it's about a friendship between a man and rocks. Um, it is an alien who looks like a pile of rocks. Um, it is a wonderful movie. It is about science, it is fun, it is... It made me f- it's infectiously delightful, and it deserves-- I can see why-

Scott Galloway 50:59 That's nice

Kara Swisher 50:59 ... it did eighty million dollars at the box office. I saw it on IMAX film. You don't need to, really. There's some beautiful things in it and some beautiful photography, but you hardly... You could watch it... It's a wonderful... It feels like a little like E.T. a little bit. It's got... It just is a wonderful movie. Uh, Ryan, um, what, what's his name? Sorry.

Scott Galloway 51:19 Gosling.

Kara Swisher 51:19 Gosling. Ryan Gosling is-

Scott Galloway 51:21 Super talented

Kara Swisher 51:21 ... delightful.

Scott Galloway 51:22 Yeah.

Kara Swisher 51:22 He's the ki- Scott, you need to see it 'cause he's the kinda man you wanna be.

Scott Galloway 51:26 You know, two people have said I'd, I'd love it. Yeah.

Kara Swisher 51:28 You would because he's the guy that you wanna be. He's sort of a reluctant hero, of course, and at the same time it's about ingeniousness, it's about... It's the same writer of The Mar- Martian, same book. And everyone-- What's interesting, someone told me people read Project Hail Mary, someone who I didn't think read much read both The Martian and Project Hai- Hail Mary. It's a lot of plot, not great writing, but the movie, the movies become marvelous. I think I love The Martian. It's about sort of fix-it things. It's, it's... Everyone in it is great. Uh, this, this anthr- this, this rock character that becomes his friend, they're trying to solve humanity's problems together, is... You start to really love this chara- It's a really great character, which is voiced by a puppeteer, I think, a very well-known puppeteer. Amazing. Like, I can't believe... At first I was like, "I'm gonna look at a rock character this entire time?" And it ended up being delightful. I gotta say, it deserves... I... It did much better than people thought. Amazon, this is their first big hit that is an original, and-

Scott Galloway 52:28 Oh, it's from Amazon

Kara Swisher 52:28 ... congratulations to Amazon for this.

Scott Galloway 52:30 Yeah, I heard it's great.

Kara Swisher 52:30 I have to say, wonderful movie. Again, Ryan Gosling can do anything. He can sing, he can dance.

Scott Galloway 52:35 Very talented.

Kara Swisher 52:35 He's funny. He was great on SNL. Wonderful... What a movie star. But also totally approachable as a dude. That's why you'd like it. My fail, you know, there's so many obvious ones. I mean, more than nine months after its announcements, Trump mobile phone still hasn't launched. It never is gonna launch, by the way. They're a bunch of grifters. Um, but I think, I think probably something that got a lot of press was President Trump's reaction to the death of Robert Mueller, a former FBI director, special counsel, and Bronze Star Marine veteran. He died this weekend at the age of eighty-one. I d- had no, I had no idea he was sick. While former, uh, presidents Bush and Obama shared their tributes to him, Trump went the other direction, posting, "I'm glad he's dead." Uh, you know, then Scott Bessent, th- that little quisling, weak, weak weakling w- was like, "Oh, he was the victim here of Robert Mueller, and so he should be able to say that." But it does open... It is really shocking when everyone sort of gave the left a hard time for not being unhappy that Charlie Kirk had died, and by the way, it was terrible and murder- in a terrible and murderous way, and nobody should be celebrating that. Um, this was just, like, very typical, and it sort of opens the door to when someday Trump, uh, sheds these mortal coils for anyone to say that. Um, so it just was like, it's another gross, chaotic, mentally deranged, madness of King George moment. That's-- I was like, "Are you... Can you just shut the fuck up and not give us your thoughts on every awful thing that crosses your, your increasingly aging brain? Thank you." There you go.

Scott Galloway 54:08 There you go. Uh, I love those.

Kara Swisher 54:09 Win and fail for you.

Scott Galloway 54:10 But we're increasingly... It's like when you hang out and people begin to look like their dogs.

Kara Swisher 54:14 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 54:14 We're becoming the same person. My fail was the same thing, so I'll take the other side of it, but-

Kara Swisher 54:18 Okay

Scott Galloway 54:19 ... before we get to that, I wanna just talk a little bit more about blowjobs.

Kara Swisher 54:23 [laughs]

Scott Galloway 54:23 If, if your... Do you think it should bother you if your spouse has given hundreds of blowjobs to random men-

Kara Swisher 54:29 Oh, no. He shouldn't be throwing them up

Scott Galloway 54:29 ... or is my wife overreacting?

Kara Swisher 54:31 Oh, my God. [both laughing]

Scott Galloway 54:34 That's good. All right.

Kara Swisher 54:35 I bet you'd be good at giving blowjobs.

Scott Galloway 54:37 All right, my-

Kara Swisher 54:37 Anyway, sorry

Scott Galloway 54:38 ... my win-

Kara Swisher 54:39 I would think you'd be better than me at it, but go ahead

Scott Galloway 54:41 ... uh, uh, just, just, just... 'Cause all right, enough. Even I have limits.

Kara Swisher 54:44 [laughs] I knew that would stop you.

Scott Galloway 54:46 I knew even I have limits.

Kara Swisher 54:48 I knew it.

Scott Galloway 54:49 Okay, so I don't know how to make a clean segue here. So my... We, we, [sighs] uh, we, uh, talk a lot about what... Talking about an aspirational, uh, vision for masculinity. Um, and I think unfortunately it's been confused with, um, volume-The dominance and attention, and that's, you know, that's not strength, Kara. That's just insecurity with a ring light or a, a Twitter handle, and if you want an actual template for masculinity, you could do a lot worse than Robert, Robert Mueller, and this was a guy, he was a Marine in Vietnam. By the way, he volunteered. He didn't, he didn't avoid deferments, no bone spurs. Also in high school, captain of his lacrosse, hockey, and baseball team.

Kara Swisher 55:42 Mm-hmm.

Scott Galloway 55:42 An amazing-

Kara Swisher 55:44 Leader

Scott Galloway 55:44 ... physical athlete.

Kara Swisher 55:46 Leader.

Scott Galloway 55:46 Captain, all three teams decided he should be the leader of that team. He, Marine in Vietnam, he, where he earned a Bronze Star, went on to lead the FBI for over a decade, and then later in his career, he took on one of the most politically radioactive investigations in modern history, and how did he handle it? He, he had-- there was no three a- theatrics. There was no personal branding. There was no need to be at the center of the story. He just did the job, and before all of that, uh, as I mentioned, a very serious athlete and a scholar, went to Princeton, a-and get this, married for over 60 years, raising a family, including, I believe, two kids while building a life of service. You know, that's a decent outline for masculinity. It-- not performative outrage, no constant self-promotion, but discipline, restraint, and commitment, you know, to your work, your country, and your family, and his posture was simple. You know, service matters more than me. The work matters more than me, and I feel like, I feel like with today who we should be looking to for role models and masculinity, that's what we've lost. We've started rewarding people or men for being loud instead of being reliable and that for being visible instead of being, being credible or empathetic, and this guy was real strength. It's quiet. It's showing up. It's doing hard things, and it's not making everything about you, and so w-w-when we talk about using masculinity as a code or a guide for young men, you know, i-if you're trying to figure this out, what it looks like, here's a filter. Are you, are you optimizing for attention or for service, right? Because one of them k- is more immediate, but the other compounds over a lifetime, and I found it so upsetting that this guy, who's such an outstanding role model and such a fantastic example of what it means to be an American and what it means to be a man, that his family would have to endure that nonsense.

Kara Swisher 58:03 Yep, I agree.

Scott Galloway 58:03 So he'll be, he'll be buried with-

Kara Swisher 58:06 That was the story, is Trump's-

Scott Galloway 58:07 He'll-

Kara Swisher 58:07 ... reaction to him

Scott Galloway 58:08 ... he'll be laid to rest with full, you know, full honors, and, and there's few people that deserve it more. Anyways, Captain Robert Mueller, United States Marine Corps, rest in peace. What a wonderful example he, he, he set for, for all Americans and especially young men.

Kara Swisher 58:26 Mm-hmm. All right.

Scott Galloway 58:28 That's my win.

Kara Swisher 58:29 That's your win?

Scott Galloway 58:29 That's it.

Kara Swisher 58:29 I have to-

Scott Galloway 58:29 That's all I got.

Kara Swisher 58:30 You want to fail?

Scott Galloway 58:30 You said to fail.

Kara Swisher 58:31 Okay. Okay, all right. I have one more win. Scott and I did get in a tiff this weekend, and we settled it, and I have to tell you, you acted like a man, I have to say.

Scott Galloway 58:39 Hmm.

Kara Swisher 58:39 You handled-- A lot of people wouldn't have called me back. We had a little tiff. I was a little snarky. You got... We got mad at each other, and I have to say, I said to my wife, I said, "Scott handled it like a real man," like really. We had a good talk. We worked it out. We'll always have little tiffs, not very many, but I have to say, you acted with great dignity and, and openness.

Scott Galloway 58:58 Well, I appreciate that, Kara.

Kara Swisher 58:59 It was really h-- I was really very much happy with it, I have to say.

Scott Galloway 59:03 Well, that's nice. That makes me feel good.

Kara Swisher 59:04 And I have to say-

Scott Galloway 59:05 Thank you for saying that

Kara Swisher 59:05 ... you acted like a woman, really, is what you did.

Scott Galloway 59:07 [laughs]

Kara Swisher 59:07 Just like Carrie Coon. [laughs]

Scott Galloway 59:09 Well, that's the left's version of a man, just acting like a woman.

Kara Swisher 59:11 We should be on White Lotus. We should be on White Lotus. We know those people. They should make us characters as such.

Scott Galloway 59:16 White Lotus, Tulum.

Kara Swisher 59:17 Tulum. [laughs] With Molly in the bathroom.

Scott Galloway 59:21 Oh my God.

Kara Swisher 59:21 Finally, Kara takes Molly, and that's the plot-

Scott Galloway 59:24 Oh, God

Kara Swisher 59:24 ... is what happens from there, and so-

Scott Galloway 59:26 Someone's gotta die, though. Who's gonna die? [laughs]

Kara Swisher 59:28 You, obviously you.

Scott Galloway 59:29 Yeah, that's really obvious.

Kara Swisher 59:29 Come on. Obviously. Anyway, and then I'll solve the mystery.

Scott Galloway 59:33 As long as it involves performative blowjobs from someone, I'm willing to take the risk.

Kara Swisher 59:36 Yeah, I'll have to solve the mystery. Anyway, we wanna hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nytmag.com/pivot to send a question for the show or call 855-51-pivot. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, this week on With Kara Swisher, I spoke with experts about how the Trump administration is dramatically expanding the immigration detention system. I think it's really important to focus on things that people have lost a little attention to, especially this prison system we're building. Erin Reichlin Melnick, lawyer and senior fellow at the American Immigration Council, says Stephen Miller won't stop pushing for more deportations even if the focus has been off them of late. Let's listen to a clip.

Speaker 1:00:12 His goal is a million deportations a year. I don't think they're gonna hit it, but they're going to try to spend every penny of that funding that they can in order to reach that goal, and that means more people caught up in this rapid system, more people held in detention, more people subject to awful conditions, and more people who see what's happening and say, "I can't take it anymore. I just wanna give up, even if I could have a chance to stay in this country, 'cause I don't wanna spend another day in this hellhole."

Kara Swisher 1:00:37 So anyway, let's just not lose focus on things. We tend to do that in this society right now, so I thought it was important to talk about the issue, these detention centers.

Scott Galloway 1:00:44 I'm glad you're doing that-

Kara Swisher 1:00:45 Thank you

Scott Galloway 1:00:45 ... 'cause one of the things I was thinking about is that so many really important issues, including incarceration in this country or in the United States. We're the most incarcerated country in the world. It, it bubbled up to be an issue where a lot of important people were talking about it and beginning to visit it and, and think thoughtfully about it, and it's been pushed down because we just have so much fucking nonsense crowding out everything else.

Kara Swisher 1:01:09 Right. That's the whole point. That's what they're doing. It's their, it's a flimflammery, and one of the things is it's easy when it's Minneapolis and we can see it. This stuff is hidden because they're behind... This is what, where they want it, the hiddenness of it, but it gets out, and so I thought it was important to keep focused on, on things like this, um, which is why I did the Epstein survivors. I'm like, "Let's not forget. Let's not forget."

Scott Galloway 1:01:29 Mm-hmm.

Kara Swisher 1:01:29 "Let's not forget." Anyway, it was a really good panel with a really good group of people. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot, and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. [outro music]