PivotKara Swisher Fires Back at Elon Musk's “Toddler Behavior”
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
65 min read · 13,097 words- 0:00 – 7:50
Kara Responds to Elon Threats
- KSKara Swisher
If you can't stand the heat, Elon, get the fuck out of the kitchen. [upbeat music] Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- SGScott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- KSKara Swisher
And guess what? Elon Musk is pissed at me again. I said on the Bulwark podcast that Elon might need to be worried if the GOP loses the House and the Senate, and he tweeted, "Live by the sword, die by the sword. Sounds like Kara Swisher really wants to go to prison." I really don't.
- SGScott Galloway
I'm not nearly important enough to get in the way of his ire. So question, does this stuff bother you or do you enjoy-
- KSKara Swisher
No
- SGScott Galloway
... the attention or?
- KSKara Swisher
No. None of it. I think it's toddler behavior. It's kind of ridiculous. He, he threatened Congress, I think, too, and oddly enough, you were meaner to him this week on that thing, uh, you know, on our clip, and of course, he comes after me, uh, which is really-
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but I'm not, I'm not important enough. It's like when Trump goes after Jess Tarlov or Musk goes after you. I'm still waiting for my global important person to come after me.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs]
- SGScott Galloway
I don't-
- KSKara Swisher
All right. Look, look-
- SGScott Galloway
How come, how come you and Jess get all the hate?
- KSKara Swisher
I don't know. Jess gets the same way, and Caitlin Collins. Uh, what happened was I gave an interview to Catherine Rampell at The Rampart, and I was... I, I had talked to congresspeople and heard they were coming after Elon, and, uh, it's called reporting, and I, uh, said it, and I said, you know, i- in a Kamala Harris administration, all those investigations, there were several criminal things attached to them. So he could've gone, he could've gone to prison, but he got rid of them. I was making a point that he got rid of all the investigations, either through his, his relationship with Trump or through DOGE, and n- now they're gonna come back. And I said, "And, uh, you're gonna see a lot of congressional people saying so." And he-- and they did the next day. Like, all of them went on the record, not just Elizabeth Warren, but even a Republican, um, was saying, "We need to investigate this Ukraine thing." Other people said the other ones. And so I was just pointing out the dead fucking obvious of what's gonna happen if, if, uh... That's why he's throwing so-- She was asking me why he was throwing so much money at the midterms. Like, it's like, I think it's four hundred million dollars at this point. And, uh, and I said, "This is why. It's not 'cause he believes in Trump. He believes in himself, and he's trying to save his own skin." Anyway, he, for some reason, lost his mind. And by the way, this is something Elon said to Tucker Carlson, and his mother said, "Don't joke about it," like recently. So it's not something that he... He said the word prison, but then he just said this thing, "Live by the sword, die by the sword." I don't know who he's talking about. And, um, and that I, I want-- I would-- I wanna go to prison, which is like, I don't mind being in a prison movie, like, and acting in it. And if the, if the ladies from, uh, Hunting Wives were in there, I probably wouldn't mind prison. But, um, I don't know. I don't know. What... How does J-Jess, Jess wrote me too, and, uh, you know, I was on Caitlin's show last night, and all of us just get relentless hate by all these really troubled men. And in, in the case of Jess and Caitlin, it's Trump. And in the case of me, it's Elon.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, like, uh, y- you get to say what you want, he gets to say what he wants. The difference is when you're the President of the United States or the wealthiest man in the world, and you have this cult-like following, I think you need to be a little bit more mindful of the potential knock-on effects of if you have a couple hundred million people that follow you religiously and have bought into your self-proclaimed [scoffs] views of yourself as a Jesus-like figure, you have to recognize that there's, there's a non-zero probability that saying something like that about someone else-
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah
- SGScott Galloway
... might result in physical harm to them-
- KSKara Swisher
Yep
- SGScott Galloway
... or their, their family.
- KSKara Swisher
Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
And so you'd like to think that these individuals are a little bit more measured and realize that as you get more powerful, you are going to be subject to more attacks, some fair, some unfair. And I'm not saying your or Jess's attacks against Musk or the President have been unfair. I don't, I don't think they have been. This is the world we live in now, where individuals say-
- KSKara Swisher
Do we? All right
- SGScott Galloway
... an aut- an autocrat says, says, uh, thinks the following: "If I go after these people and exert my power, I will q-- silence my critics."
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And if you wanna see a chorus, [laughs] he's about to find out what a real Kara Swisher criticism is on November the fourth if the Democrats take the House and the Senate.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Right.
- SGScott Galloway
The fact that this individual is making geopolitical decisions around the fate of the West on a whim, and he's blaming the President, the President's blaming him, you don't think every... No, no, right now, no representative and a third of the senators wanna raise their head above the parapet and piss him off 'cause he might dump two hundred million dollars into, uh, their competitor's campaign. On November the fourth, you are going to see the mother of all subpoenas and requests for him to come testify-
- KSKara Swisher
Right
- SGScott Galloway
... before Congress.
- KSKara Swisher
Right. One hundred percent.
- SGScott Galloway
I mean, it's just, it is-
- 7:50 – 11:10
SpaceX and Tesla Earnings
- KSKara Swisher
shares surged after the company reported record third quarter revenue of $14.6 billion, up 161% from a year ago. The company also reported $4.4 billion in net income, reversing a loss of more than $1 billion a year earlier. Uh, moving on, Tesla beat Wall Street's third quarter earnings expectations, reporting $28 billion in revenue, even as its core automotive revenue fell 3% from a year ago. That continues, as you noted it would. Net income, of course, dropped 29% to 787 million as Tesla ramped up spending on AI and its Optimus robots. You know, in anticipation, as I predicted, of this SpaceX and Tesla merger, they formed a special committee to explore that. I mean, of course that's what they're gonna do, because data is the, is the game for these, this company now, in all aspects. That's the bet he is making. Of course, a lot of the money from that, uh, SpaceX is from selling compute, so if there's any, uh, weakness in the AI sector, the, it'll be a problem for that company. And by the way, Elon also reportedly did order a slowdown of Ukraine's military grade Starlink service last week, according to the Wall Street Journal. Besides being heinous, it's also a business problem. People are g- you know, the head of Delta d- doesn't wanna do business with Starlink. Lots of Europeans don't, the Canadians don't, so it could actually hurt the business. So take off, Scott Galloway, Mr. Earnings.
- SGScott Galloway
So I'm not gonna talk about valuation. I would argue that both Tesla and, and SpaceX, uh, you're paying just an enormous narrative premium. But let's just talk about the business. SpaceX is literally a rocket ship. Its revenue is about $14.6 billion, up 161%. Net in- net income of $4.5 billion. The AI business is now more than half of revenue, up 9X. Starlink, $5.2 billion in revenue at a 45% operating margin with 14 million subscribers. Now, there's some fear here. CapEx was almost $20 billion. Uh, uh, two customers are 38% of revenue. So essentially, S- SpaceX is a phenomenal business with the same problem a, a lot of these AI companies have. It's a, got a concentration problem, and also it's a cash bonfire.
- KSKara Swisher
SpaceX, can I note that? Because they missed their, um, their, their Q3 results. People are, uh, calculating missing free clash, cash flow. They need money. They need money, as you said. They're burning money. Correct.
- SGScott Galloway
The fears around these companies is, will they ever be able to justify the CapEx? That's a fear across all of AI. Uh, this company, no doubt about it, is, uh... And then again, distinct to the valuation, which I would argue is insane, it is firing on all 12 cylinders right now. Tesla is different. Tesla, the revenue is flat. Operating income down 56% to about a 3% margin, with regulatory credits down 73%, which made up the majority of its profits pre Trump canceling those credits. The P/E has gone from 305 to 330, so this is an automobile company where the industry trades at an average of 18, and it's trading at 330. The, the deliveries were flat to down, so, uh, basically this c- you can't even talk about valuation on Tesla. It's a religion, and it has about 3 million in market cap per car delivered last quarter, and most car companies get about, you know, tens of thousands, not millions, per car in market cap. He is--
- 11:10 – 22:01
Will Tesla Merge With SpaceX?
- SGScott Galloway
The reason they're doing this merger, and the merger's gonna happen, 'cause what you have here is, call it special committee, call it shareholders lawsuits, there'll be lawsuits.
- KSKara Swisher
He wants to do it.
- SGScott Galloway
The reality is the bride, the groom, and the officiant are the same person here. So this, this marriage is gonna go through, and the special committee is a kabuki dance. It's just, it's all show, it's all posturing to try and act as if this is somewhat legitimate or check an SEC box. You know, in Sex and the City, and by the way, Kara, I know you know this about me, I'm a Sex and the City girl.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Me too.
- SGScott Galloway
Um, I, I love Sex and the City, and sh- Carrie's dating Baryshnikov, and he keeps saying, "Well, after this art, art showing, we'll get to do this. Well, after this..." And he, she meets with an old girlfriend who says, "Why did you break up?" And says, "It was always," uh, she got sick of hearing, uh, "When this happens, we'll get a chance to spend more time together." Elon Musk is essentially the master at saying, "Oh, wait- I got a shitty auto company that's just a, a, a high cap, high cap ex, low margin business. But wait, we're gonna have autonomous. Oh wait, it's clear my autonomous dreams aren't coming through. Wait, we're gonna have robots. Oh wait, the robot thing is pie in the sky? Oh, we're gonna merge it with SpaceX and get data and create the ultimate autonomous space connectivity automobile autonomous company. And you, h- he really is masterful at this. And you not only need to do it for investors, you need to do it for employees. Something I do every year in Q4, I say, "Next year is our year of video, and this is why it's gonna increase the value of the company and why the value of your options are gonna go up." Then I say the next year, "This is the year of subscription revenue. We're launching on Substack, and a revenue mix multiple is why you're going to, your options are gonna be worth more money." So it's not only always painting a vision that gets people excited. It's not only for shareholders. It's for people joining the company. And he's amazing at this because basically Tesla has run out of rabbits to stuff into a hat here, so he's created a new narrative and said, "Oh no, we're gonna be part of SpaceX, and we're gonna bring a lot of top-line revenue to SpaceX. There'll be some synergies." Um-
- KSKara Swisher
There's also some things in it for him in terms of the things he has to meet to get more money from them. But go ahead.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, and, and he's gonna get... He's gonna paint a vision. It's gonna increase his control of the company. You're being asked y- w- with SpaceX, you're gonna be asked to buy the most expensive car company in history at 328 times earnings. SpaceX shareholders essentially are bailing Tesla out, and that is Tesla has run out of rabbits, and this is the new one. You're gonna be part of this unbelievable company that's growing fast, and he'll figure out a way to spin the yarn there. Kalshi says there's a 48% chance it closes before March, 81% before 2020, '28 according to Kalshi. Now, the existential threat here that people aren't talking enough about, and you referenced it at the beginning-
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, that's what I wanna get to. What, what... There are two of them. What it... I think I know what you're gonna say the first one is
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, the biggest one hands down, and I'm a capitalist. I don't believe in taking stakes in Intel. I don't believe in, in Obama funding Solyndra. I, I think the private market, generally speaking, does things better. Some things it does worse, for example, healthcare and the Navy. But I think there are gonna be calls to, if not massively regulate, potentially even nationalize Starlink. When you have an unelected representative throttling back the ability to defe- a n- for a nation to defend itself, and it doesn't know that when inbound projectiles are coming in from Russia, and it starts to launch its defense drones, and the defense drones don't work because Starlink, without their knowledge, has been dialed, throttled back, oh my gosh, you have some splaining to do.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah. Exactly.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, no Democratic congressperson or senator right now wants to raise their head above the parapet and, and potentially inspire his ire and get a couple hundred million dollars to go to their competitor. Once November the 4th happens, if-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, they are. Actually, they are. That's not true. There's been about a half dozen.
- SGScott Galloway
But even Republi- oh my, we haven't seen-
- KSKara Swisher
There was one, there was two Republicans already.
- SGScott Galloway
We haven't seen anything yet.
- KSKara Swisher
Yes, I agree. I agree.
- SGScott Galloway
I... There are so many elected officials waiting to haul that guy in front of Congress.
- KSKara Swisher
Right. But more than that, isn't it also, speaking of capitalism, look, ch- uh, Canada is looking for other s- partners but Starlink. Europe is. Delta is. Like, there's a lot of, there's a lot of movement. I don't wanna use this guy's stuff 'cause he could turn it off at any point or they could take it against me. Is that a risk from your perspective?
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, of, uh, uh, of course.
- KSKara Swisher
And he's fighting in, he's fighting in India with the world's richest Indian, I think. Is it-
- SGScott Galloway
Once Europe had an, had an option in EVs... Let's be hon- He was first. He made the best EV in, in, in 2017, they had the best EV. In 2020, they had the best EV. Now, uh, the BYDs in Europe, Tesla's sales are plummeting. The moment Europeans had a, had an option. Right now, there is no option to Starlink, and what do you know? Europe is talking about binding together to create the equivalent of Airbus. And that is, Airbus was essentially a response to Boeing. Europe said, "How come the Americans and this American company, which has been subsidized fairly by military contracts, controls the entire market for commercial jet transportation?" So they bound together, and they actually created an incredible company called Airbus that in my view now produces a superior plane. They are starting to talk about getting together, and also Amazon is coming for, you know, for that business. But Europeans, as soon as there's an option in these countries to Starlink-
- KSKara Swisher
That's... I mean, capitalism-
- SGScott Galloway
They're gonna take it
- KSKara Swisher
... will take care of it and his behavior
- SGScott Galloway
Maybe even before that, though-
- KSKara Swisher
Right
- SGScott Galloway
... I, and I predicted this, you're gonna see a nation ban Starlink.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
They're just gonna say, "We've had it with this guy."
- KSKara Swisher
Right.
- 22:01 – 27:33
Meta Earnings
- KSKara Swisher
strong third quarter numbers with revenue jumping 26% to a record $64.6 billion, beating Wall Street expectations. Profit did take a hit from a $10 billion legal charge tied to the company's settlement on social media addiction lawsuits. There's more to come. A New Mexico judge just ordered Meta to pay $25 billion for deceiving users about its data privacy practices. And by the way, there's more to come. That is its greatest risk right now, I would imagine. Uh, Meta announced then a two-for-one stock split that'll create a new set of Class C shares to help fund AI spending and keep Mark Zuckerberg in control of the company, 'cause that's how he likes it. The new shares come, uh, with a commitment from Zuckerberg to stay in California. He was threatening to leave, while giving him a way to pay the state's proposed billionaire wealth tax if it passes. Uh, you know, it's a trick to keep him there. Um, and also in Metaland, Joel Kaplan, Meta's head of global policy and one of Mark Zuckerberg's closest advisors, is leaving the company next year after more than 15 years. Kaplan, a former senior advisor to George W. Bush, helped shape Meta's policies on free speech and content moderation. He also played a key role in repairing Meta's relationship with Trump. The timing of his announcement just weeks before midterms is raising questions whether Meta is anticipating a blue wave and trying to get ahead of it through... Though Casey Newton pointed out in Platform, Mark Kaplan isn't leaving because he fears Democrats. He's leaving because his work is done. He's been the most influential in, in removing all moderation and, and backing, uh, conservatives for sure. And the person taking his place, Dina Powell, and another lawyer there also. Um, but she's a very... She's a softer side of Facebook, I think, in a lot of ways, and I don't mean that in a sexist way. She's just very well-liked. Joel is very controversial and probably wouldn't, uh, do as well in a Democratically controlled, uh, congressional situation. Uh, thoughts on the earnings, a little trick to keep him in California, and where he has lovely homes. I think he probably wants to stay there too, and also Joel.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, the, the, I mean, I've said this three or four times in a row. Meta's earnings are nothing short of remarkable. On a huge base, up 26%, ad prices up 14%, impressions up 10%, while Headcount was down fifteen percent while revenue grew twenty-six percent. That's kind of AI efficiency in one sentence. Fewer people, more money. I mean, it's just w- uh, the most seminal earnings call of the AI age was, I think, six earnings call when Meta said we grew twenty-three percent with twenty percent fewer people. That's everyone's fear. That's, that's every politician's and citizen's fear, while every shareholder's dream, that they're gonna be able to just make more money with fewer people. Uh, the legal bill, again, uh, twenty-five billion from New Mexico. Uh, so they've gotten about f- they've been handed about forty-five billion dollars in legal costs this year, and that's, uh, in penalties. That's roughly a third, though, of its CapEx budget, so it's, you know... Uh, y- you could honestly say for the first time, harming teenagers is showing up as a line item that matters, but it's still not enough disincentive to really change their behavior, I would argue.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, it will be. I say it will be.
- SGScott Galloway
I think so. Uh, hopefully this is just the start. Um, their CapEx, like again, back to everything else here, the fear around all of this is that we're in an arms race. Thirty-five billion CapEx for the quarter, that's fifty-four percent of revenue. Um, year-to-date free cash flow as a result has fallen from thirty billion to eleven. And, you know, this is... Uh, uh, I don't think there is a company that has better proven the opportunity of AI for business than Meta. And let me just say this personally, and I wanna ask you this. I have found in the last six months, I am increasingly addicted to Instagram and Reels. I feel as if they literally go inside my brain and figure out what thirty seconds hit of dopa I want next at exactly the right time.
- KSKara Swisher
Interesting. I, I think it's a great product. I, I do. I-- Of all of the social media products, if you do it right and you get the right algorithm, it's not hateful, whether it's Threads or Instagram. If you get it correct, it's a terrifically made product. It works well. There's some problem with sharing. I'll be... There's some slowness. They haven't been developing features on Threads 'cause I don't think it matters to them, but I think it's gr- a good product. Um, Muse, uh, if you've noticed, as I noted it would happen, everybody signed up. Not as many people are using it. It'll still be a significant business for them. It's not dumb like some of their ones they had to abandon, like their dating service or things like that. I still wonder if Muse will, will catch on or not. I, I'm not so sure it will. Um, but we'll see. People are... Depending on if people find a real use case for it. Um, but it's well done. It's well done, and vaguely creepy. Um, so everything they do is really... And that's why these numbers are great, right? I think, you know, in the case of Tesla, Elon lost the attention span, and he made a Cybertruck, not a better, smaller car to compete with BYD. Mark does keep his eye on the ball on the products. Um, and his, uh, uh, ha- had some significant misses. I mean, their metaverse thing was just a disaster. Their phone wasn't so great. They have a list of things they've sucked at. But in general, in their core business, their... including advertising, I find the advertising very pertinent to what things I want. I often buy things off of Meta, which is interesting, um, or want to. Um, but you know, still, they won't change, and
- 27:33 – 33:09
Joel Kaplan's Meta Exit
- KSKara Swisher
you know, Kaplan's sort of leaving, and I think Kaplan, uh, I have m- you know, I think he's been very effective in a way that I find really not great and distasteful even, what, what he's done, um, to try to please Trump people, and it's in his own... By the way, he wants to do this. Um, so I think they're getting ready for a more hostile, um, political environment by putting in something like Dina. Um, but I do think these social media lawsuits are gonna continue and be a real problem going forward.
- SGScott Galloway
Kaplan probably got paid two or three hundred million dollars to do one thing, and that was repair the relationship and advise, you know, "Okay, okay, Mark," after the attempted assassination, "Say, say that Trump was a badass. Say this, say this, go to the thing, do this, donate to this." He basically repaired or got Meta out of the crosshairs of the Trump administration. All of this stock stuff is essentially gymnastics such that, such that a Prop 40 passes, which Kalshi says only has a one in four chance of passing, but if it does, does pass, he would, he would have to come up with twelve and a half billion dollars, which likely means he needs to sell stock. So all of this is gymnastics such that if he has to do that, he doesn't lose control of the company. So through a series of issuing non-voting stock... I, I don't... I, I think it's all for naught.
- KSKara Swisher
He controls the company now. He controls it now, so he can do this, right? He wants to stay in California. He likes Cali. He likes Tahoe, he likes his house. He likes California. He always has.
- SGScott Galloway
Well, on a larger level, for all the bitching and moaning and, and reporting from Fox about the hellscape that is California, the people with the most options of any humans ever alive on this planet choose to live in, wait for it, California. All those taxes, all those homeless. I'm a billionaire. I could literally live on any-
- KSKara Swisher
On the moon
- SGScott Galloway
... plot on God's green Earth, and I choose to stay-
- KSKara Swisher
He does
- SGScott Galloway
... in Malibu or Woodside or La Jolla. Why? Because California's fucking amazing.
- KSKara Swisher
Yep. Yep.
- SGScott Galloway
And yeah, it's not perfect. It's definitely got issues.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
But most of these guys, for all their bitching and moaning, most of them, when they quote unquote "move," move just long enough to qualify for residency in Florida or Texas.
- KSKara Swisher
Nevada or whatever. Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, such that they can have a lower tax rate.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
But a- anyone who spends... Anyways, I, I'm, I'm not gonna be an ad here for California.
- KSKara Swisher
He, he loves, uh, California and Hawaii. I k- I knew he would stay. I... That, that's the one I have-
- SGScott Galloway
Well, who wouldn't?
- KSKara Swisher
Well, some of them do like going to Nevada. Some of them do like going to wherever the fuck they're-
- SGScott Galloway
Oh my... Come on. Who lo-
- KSKara Swisher
Just saying.
- SGScott Galloway
You think Sergey's just loving... He's just, he's just loving... He's, he's-
- KSKara Swisher
I don't know
- SGScott Galloway
... he's loving Reno? I love the vibe in Reno.
- KSKara Swisher
[laughs] Yeah, but Mark in particular loves California. He really does. Let me say, I would recommend reading Casey Newton's piece on it, 'cause Joel Kaplan really has been like a Really? Oh, Joel. Have lunch with me, Joel, finally, you chicken shit
- SGScott Galloway
He plucked his couple hundred million pucks to sell his soul, and you know what? It was worth it
- KSKara Swisher
Remember he sat behind, uh, um, what's his name? The j- the Supreme Court, and he shouldn't have been there, and he had to be called on it
- SGScott Galloway
Oh, Kavanaugh?
- KSKara Swisher
Kavanaugh. He's, he's... They're friends. Whatever
- SGScott Galloway
I just love the, the look of Kavanaugh's wife. Like, "Oh, I..." [laughs]
- 33:09 – 1:02:50
Sacha Baron Cohen Brings Back Ali G
- KSKara Swisher
just talking about the word cunt, but, uh, we [laughs] we're gonna move on from that. And actually, it's a good thing to start with because your movie-
- SCSacha Baron Cohen
[laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
... you have director- di- directorial debut
- SCSacha Baron Cohen
Oh, I thought you were gonna call me one. Okay, fine
- KSKara Swisher
No, all right, fine, you cunt. Um, but your directorial debut-
- SCSacha Baron Cohen
Thank you
- KSKara Swisher
... Ali G: Who Is, Is I?, which wr- [laughs] which you wrote and star in, is in theaters today, and it is a lot about what you say and what you don't say. Let's watch a clip from the film before we jump in
- SCSacha Baron Cohen
You are the indigenous people of this country. You must keep this country true to what it always was.
- SGScott Galloway
Hell yeah, dude.
- SPSpeaker
Yes.
- SCSacha Baron Cohen
Do not be fooled. These immigrants are not coming here to mow your lawn, trim your trees, rake your leaves, clean your house, care for your babies, your parents, bus your tables, wash your cars, pick fruits and vegetables in the fields, clean your hotel rooms, schools, offices, hospitals, paint your houses, build your fences, operate slaughterhouses, install your roofs, drywall, plumbing, or electric. They are coming to kill you.
- SGScott Galloway
Hell yeah, man
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, God, that was so good. [laughs]
- SCSacha Baron Cohen
[laughs]
- KSKara Swisher
Um, uh, first question. I'm gonna start. Uh, why are you friends with Scott Galloway? No. [laughs] You can't say that.
- SCSacha Baron Cohen
He's, uh, he's the only person taller than me.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, really? Is he?
- SCSacha Baron Cohen
He's my life coach. Yeah.
- KSKara Swisher
Uh-huh. How so? What's his best piece of advice? Don't listen to Scott Galloway? What, what is it?
- SCSacha Baron Cohen
Breathe in-
- KSKara Swisher
Mm-hmm
- SCSacha Baron Cohen
... and, uh, focus on what you can control.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh. Ooh
- SCSacha Baron Cohen
There we go. I mean, basic stuff that you would pay, like, an amateur shrink for.
- KSKara Swisher
Do you pay him?
- SCSacha Baron Cohen
Uh, because I'm English, I've never heard this stuff before.
- KSKara Swisher
Oh, okay. All right. Okay. Well, I'm very-
- SCSacha Baron Cohen
Do you-
- KSKara Swisher
... pleased about your relationship
- SGScott Galloway
Can I answer quickly? Can I answer that question?
- 1:02:50 – 1:09:51
Predictions
- KSKara Swisher
a prediction. Can I just go first? I just, can I-- The bankruptcy of Character.ai couldn't have happened to a nicer company, and the reason they did it, it's part of a deal to acquire its technology and hire most of its staff. Disney, uh, is doing this. It's not, I don't think it's fully done yet, but it's trying to avoid the startup's legal, uh, liabilities, which include parents who are suing because it's a sh- it's a shitty, heinous product. And, um, y- you know, I, I don't like all the machinations to get out of the technology stuff, but Disney, of all companies, given how, its hist- Character.ai's history, and also Disney had an issue with them using Disney characters. Um, in any case, uh, so glad you're gone, Character.ai. So that's all I have to say, and I hope you never come back, but you will.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, basically a, a, a prepackaged bankruptcy where they got the people, and they got the technology, and the shareholders got wiped out.
- KSKara Swisher
Including the founder. Mm-hmm. Yeah, the founder's now the chief technologist at Disney, I think, or one of them.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, so my prediction is, I'm predicting that if you had to pick one company that w- that one AI, like who is the one? Who, who gets to sit on the Iron Throne? I think a lot of people would say, realistically, it's gonna be NVIDIA. I, my prediction is something different. I think the winner of AI, and I, I don't, I'm not happy about this, but I just look at the metrics and the data. I think the winner of AI is gonna be Meta, and [sighs] my buddy Whitney Tilson forwarded me this, and it just like, you, you know occasionally you read something and you're like, "Oh God, that just resonates. It's so true." Let's talk about Meta. It's got a real moat. Meta's AI strategy is just, it's bearing fruit. You look at the numbers, and just an- and realize this is anecdotal evidence, I can't get over how addictive this product has become. I, I, I just think that their ability to serve you the right content at the right moment is striking, and they are either the biggest or the second biggest spender on AI right now, and I think it's, I think it's the best example of how to get ROI on AI. Um, so [sighs] leading models, Meta is arguably at parity according to certain evaluators with Anthropic and OpenAI in terms of the quality of their LLM. It's got unmatched distribution, Kara. They have direct relationships with 500 million businesses. They're already in... They already have a direct relationship with 500 million businesses, which the other kind of frontier model startups, uh, don't have.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
They have thousands.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And they can credibly build an agent-to-agent network starting with their 3 billion daily active users and 500 million businesses. The, the app Muse is at the top or near the top of downloaded apps. It's free, and you're gonna see this agentic layer that everyone from Benioff to Wired have been talking about, where your a- agentic travel, uh, uh, vehicle is gonna go talk to every agent from Delta or the Hilton and figure out your travel. No one is better positioned to pull this off because they already-
- KSKara Swisher
Well, Apple. Apple is.
- SGScott Galloway
Apple isn't really going that hard at AI.
- KSKara Swisher
I know it isn't.
- SGScott Galloway
Look at their CapEx in AI.
- KSKara Swisher
I'm just saying Apple is positioned. Apple is positioned.
- SGScott Galloway
Yeah, but I don't, they, they, I think they're sitting this one out, and it might be the right move.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah.
- SGScott Galloway
And they're gonna, in my opinion, they're gonna pull a search and just license it to the highest bidder-
- KSKara Swisher
I see
- SGScott Galloway
... and take advantage of the cheap capital.
- KSKara Swisher
I just bought the Duo, by the way.
- SGScott Galloway
So they, in, in my view, they can build that agent-to-agent network, starting with their 3 billion users and 500 million businesses. Muse is talking directly to business muse via personal agent protocol. Huge moat and revenue unlock potential. Uh, [sighs] Muse is moving to a confidential, uh, voicemail where even Meta can't see content, which should, should assuage some privacy concerns.
- KSKara Swisher
There were some leaks, you know, of some of the data.
- SGScott Galloway
And also, you just gotta give it to the guy. I think he's a sociopath, but I think arguably he's the best executor in modern-day business.
- KSKara Swisher
Yeah, he's kind of the Gates. Remember how, when Gates had that title, you know?
- SGScott Galloway
So you have, you have the technology, the capital that this requires that few companies can keep up with, and then a built-in audience of 500 million businesses and 3 billion consumers. This ag- This, this all translates to compounding advantage
- KSKara Swisher
And also the energy. He really does, his competitive energy. He really, it's sustained. He, he hasn't lost a step in that regard. Uh, you know, he still is aggressive and sort of insecure as ever, which sort of fuels some of it, I think. So.
- SGScott Galloway
Uh, I just, I, I... Anyways, my prediction is the following
- KSKara Swisher
But it's important. It's important to be like that.
- SGScott Galloway
My prediction is the following, that in three years we're gonna look at the AI age and we're gonna say who won, and I, I, I, everyone right now is saying, "Well, it's between, the big winner will either be Anthropic, OpenAI, NVIDIA is the f- safe one for everybody." I think the, the s- the surprise winner of AI is Meta.
- KSKara Swisher
Can I make a, a counter? I think it's gonna be Google.
- SGScott Galloway
Sure.
Episode duration: 1:09:51
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