Kara Swisher Is Opting Out of Meta's New AI Tool (And You Should Too) | Pivot

1. 0:00 – 5:16

   Intro

   1. KSKara Swisher0:00

      Any adult with a public Instagram account was automatically opted in. Kara Swisher is opted out now, just so you know. These people, are they just constant information thieves? [upbeat music] Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. Scott is off again. Who knows where he is? He's floating around on some yacht in some Italian area, I think. Uh, and, but I have brought in someone who is much smarter than him, Matt Belloni.

   2. MBMatt Belloni0:30

      [laughs]

   3. KSKara Swisher0:30

      Journalist, founding partner of Puck and host of The Town podcast. Welcome, Matt.

   4. MBMatt Belloni0:36

      Thanks for having me. I don't know about that comparison to Scott, but I'll take it.

   5. KSKara Swisher0:39

      No, he's really smart. But, uh, the, in the topics that we're gonna be talking about, and there's so many of them. You are, you are just do an amazing job and an amazing reporter on Hollywood and more, and, and broader. You talk about AI and a manner, all manner of things. And I just wanna put a, also, a shout-out to Eric Gardner, who writes with you sometimes on the legal stuff.

   6. MBMatt Belloni0:57

      Yep.

   7. KSKara Swisher0:57

      Riveting.

   8. MBMatt Belloni0:58

      He's great.

   9. KSKara Swisher0:58

      Rivi- riveting.

   10. MBMatt Belloni0:58

       Yeah, once a week at Puck, he's great.

   11. KSKara Swisher1:00

       I gotta tell you, and important, actually. It's stuff I didn't know about and I, you know, you understand how, especially around copyright and things like that. Anyway, it's really good. I've been having... One of the things, the reason I wanna have you on, 'cause, um, it, it, it, you, you really have written some of the smartest stuff around a lot of these mergers with, and more to come. And so I wanna sort of get a preview of where you think s- they're going. But I wanna... You recently... I wanna bring something up. You recently said Cannes Lions is a, quote, "tacky business conference." How'd that go over?

   12. MBMatt Belloni1:30

       Uh, okay. So-

   13. KSKara Swisher1:31

       It's not tacky. Tacky, I would... The wine is lovely, but it's tacky-ish.

   14. MBMatt Belloni1:34

       Well, I did say enjoy the rosé.

   15. KSKara Swisher1:36

       Right. Okay.

   16. MBMatt Belloni1:36

       So listen, this, I did an intro my newsletter a couple weeks ago during Cannes Lions, which I called it a soulless corporate boondoggle, and that I would not be attending that year. Uh, it seems to have triggered everybody who was there, 'cause I kept hearing from people that it was coming up at different panels. Ben Smith asked, um, Alex Cooper about it on [laughs] his panel. And listen, I, I think it was a little misunderstood. I don't mind a boondoggle.

   17. KSKara Swisher2:01

       Right. Right.

   18. MBMatt Belloni2:02

       Like, I love a good boon- boondoggle. The problem with Cannes Lions is that they call it a festival of creativity.

   19. KSKara Swisher2:09

       Creativity. You're right. Correct. Yes, but-

   20. MBMatt Belloni2:10

       And it is not. It is-

   21. KSKara Swisher2:12

       Yeah. Yeah

   22. MBMatt Belloni2:12

       ... it is about platforms for selling advertising.

   23. KSKara Swisher2:15

       That's correct.

   24. MBMatt Belloni2:16

       And-

   25. KSKara Swisher2:16

       That is correct, yeah

   26. MBMatt Belloni2:17

       ... I, you know, through my career covering entertainment, I go to the Cannes Film Festival, which happens a month earlier. That to me is Cannes. Because, yes, it's a market, but it's ultimately about the art and displaying the art. And, you know, even, like, my joke is that Cannes Lions makes the TV upfronts look like the Oscars.

   27. KSKara Swisher2:37

       [laughs]

   28. MBMatt Belloni2:38

       Because at least at the upfronts, they're talking about the, the, the-

   29. KSKara Swisher2:41

       The shows

   30. MBMatt Belloni2:42

       ... product. The shows-
2. 5:16 – 18:18

   States Finalize Paramount Antitrust Suit

   1. KSKara Swisher5:16

      states are finalizing an antitrust lawsuit challenging Paramount's acquisition of Warner Brothers. It is gonna be filed. I know-

   2. MBMatt Belloni5:21

      Oh, yeah

   3. KSKara Swisher5:22

      ... a lot about this. They have been in touch. The suit-

   4. MBMatt Belloni5:24

      It's politically untenable to not file at this point.

   5. KSKara Swisher5:26

      Correct. That's correct. The suit could, let me just put it out, the suit could interfere with Paramount's plan to complete the deal in the coming weeks. The D- DOJ cleared the acquisition rather quickly last month. Talk about, uh, this, the, the lawsuit. Obvious, it's Rob Bonta from California, but there are other states. There's several states involved. Um, and, and of course, there's the, the ongoing British, uh, the, the person who's head of, essentially, competition in Britain is saying she's, she's sort of Adjacent curious of slowing this thing down-

   6. MBMatt Belloni5:55

      You bet

   7. KSKara Swisher5:55

      ... at the very least. Uh, which was unusual for her to say. Several British people are like, "Uh, that's not great for them." Uh, it could be a leverage thing. Talk about the, the entire thing and where you see it going.

   8. MBMatt Belloni6:07

      It's an interesting one because first of all, the, the antitrust case here is not as strong as-

   9. KSKara Swisher6:13

      No

   10. MBMatt Belloni6:13

       ... some other ones recently that-

   11. KSKara Swisher6:15

       Absolutely not. You're right

   12. MBMatt Belloni6:16

       ... Live Nation, et cetera. Like, this one, you know, Paramount and Warners are not leaders in the industry, and they're battling these big tech players like Netflix, Amazon, Apple. So it's, it's, you know, y- when they say this merger is pro competition, it's sort of their buzzword they always say in their press releases. Like, they're not totally wrong. If this works and they can create a legitimate competitor to a Netflix, to an Amazon, like that, that is pro competition. Now, obviously the wreckage within Hollywood to do this is going to be thousands of jobs lost-

   13. KSKara Swisher6:55

       Correct. Mm-hmm

   14. MBMatt Belloni6:55

       ... and a legacy studio vanishing, and that's what's g- gotten everybody up in arms. The, the, the state action, I, it's gonna be tough, but they need to clear a injunction to actually stop this. They need to go to a court, and a court needs to say, "Okay, not only do you have a likelihood of winning here, I'm going to enjoin this merger from closing." That's the real leverage. If they can get that, then they're gonna be in a best position to extract significant concessions because I think that's what this is all about.

   15. KSKara Swisher7:31

       E- explain what's happening behind the scenes. Obviously, Makan Delrahim, who is their general counsel, is in the middle of this. He's been in the middle of the British thing. They're fighting it on two fronts, and I think the British group essentially just wants stuff-

   16. MBMatt Belloni7:43

       Yeah

   17. KSKara Swisher7:43

       ... like promises around the Harry Potter.

   18. MBMatt Belloni7:45

       I actually think the states want stuff, too.

   19. KSKara Swisher7:46

       Yes, they do want stuff. So explain what, l- fir- first start with the British. They're, just for people to know, there's a big Harry Potter, uh, studio out there. There may be some people visiting it, the tourism stuff. They want jobs, some children's programming stuff. T- explain what they want in Britain versus the US.

   20. MBMatt Belloni8:01

       Yeah. So, eh, first of all, there's, there's varying reports as to what they actually want because they haven't actually said. The, the, the children's programming thing doesn't seem to be that big of a problem. Paramount has a joint venture in the UK to distribute movies, and it's with Comcast, with NBC Universal, for the Universal movies. And there's a scenario where they exit that. Now, they may actually want to do that on their own because the Ellisons may want to just not have a partner there, but that's one area where they are, they are together with a competitor that they may have to divest there. There's also some television interests there that they have. The, the, the real goal is to get them to concede to certain things, and if it's a divestment of certain television interests, if it's a, an exit from this joint venture, that's something where they can claim victory and then they can move on.

   21. KSKara Swisher9:00

       Or jobs. Job retention. Something like that.

   22. MBMatt Belloni9:02

       Uh, well, I don't know, actually.

   23. KSKara Swisher9:03

       Yeah.

   24. MBMatt Belloni9:03

       That has been the, the, something that the European regulators have gone ma- gone after in the past.

   25. KSKara Swisher9:08

       They have. Mm-hmm.

   26. MBMatt Belloni9:09

       Uh, so that could be... Now, I think that is something that is gonna be much more relevant for the state cases. Rob Bonta in California, he's interested in preserving jobs and getting a commitment from the Ellisons to continue to operate Warner Bros. and Paramount separately. You know, David Ellison has committed to releasing 30 movies per year from the two studios in theaters, 15 a year, which is a pretty robust slate. And-

   27. KSKara Swisher9:37

       Right, he's committed. He has no, he doesn't have to.

   28. MBMatt Belloni9:39

       No, that's the, that's my point-

   29. KSKara Swisher9:40

       He said, he said so

   30. MBMatt Belloni9:40

       ... is that maybe they get that in writing.
3. 18:18 – 27:28

   Disney Hits Back at FCC

   1. KSKara Swisher18:18

      has told the FCC, uh, that ABC's, uh, The View should continue to qualify as a bona fide news program, making exempt from federal equal time rules for political candidates. The filing comes as the FCC has been probing whether The View violates those equal time rules. A notable line from the filing, "The First Amendment does not permit the government to sit in an editor's chair, yet that is the seat the commission now proposes to take." ABC launched a campaign, a very aggressive campaign, to encourage their viewers to make their thoughts known to the FCC in June, and the commission received over 76,000 comments about the case. Uh, y- as you know, I think Brendan Carr is a moron, and he's way, way overstepped here for reasons unknown. Um-

   2. MBMatt Belloni18:56

      Well, re- reasons unknown?

   3. KSKara Swisher18:58

      Well, he wants, he has, he wants a big political career. He-

   4. MBMatt Belloni19:00

      Yeah

   5. KSKara Swisher19:00

      ... and he's backing Trump. Yeah

   6. MBMatt Belloni19:01

      He wants Donald Trump to love him.

   7. KSKara Swisher19:03

      Yes, exactly. It's, it's pathetic in so many ways. But, um, I bet Donald Trump doesn't love him, by the way. Um, so talk about the con- the consequences here for both sides, because I think Brendan Carr has overstepped, especially in his statements, 'cause his statements go way over the line of any FCC chairman I've heard i- in the many years I've covered them.

   8. MBMatt Belloni19:24

      Yeah, it's interesting here because the, this is all happening with the backdrop of Trump not necessarily being as powerful in the media sphere as he was even a year ago. We're, you know, we're heading into lame duck status. The polling is where it is. And it's, it's not, it, you know, I think that Brendan Carr was a little bit surprised that Disney came back so aggressively.

   9. KSKara Swisher19:46

      Yes, he was. Yeah.

   10. MBMatt Belloni19:47

       A- and, and, and he's now on Twitter, like, trying to counter this, this pretty normal strategy. I mean-

   11. KSKara Swisher19:54

       Right

   12. MBMatt Belloni19:54

       ... when there's ever a-

   13. KSKara Swisher19:55

       Right

   14. MBMatt Belloni19:55

       ... carriage fight amongst distributor and, and content provider-

   15. KSKara Swisher19:58

       Disney's good at it

   16. MBMatt Belloni19:59

       ... or any of the ... But-

   17. KSKara Swisher19:59

       Disney's always good at it

   18. MBMatt Belloni20:01

       ... yeah, they, they go after their fans.

   19. KSKara Swisher20:03

       The New York one, I loved watching the New York one. That was a real fun one.

   20. MBMatt Belloni20:06

       And, and shocker, people who watch The View are interested in The View having the freedom to have on any guests that they want. And if Disney communicates to them to stand up to the government to keep your show that you like as your show, they're gonna respond. So I think this was totally predictable. What's the most interesting angle to me-

   21. KSKara Swisher20:27

       Mm-hmm

   22. MBMatt Belloni20:28

       ... is through the lens of the new CEO of Disney, Josh D'Amaro.

   23. KSKara Swisher20:31

       Mm-hmm. Yes, exactly.

   24. MBMatt Belloni20:32

       He is being aggressive here, and he's pushing-

   25. KSKara Swisher20:34

       Right

   26. MBMatt Belloni20:34

       ... back on this one. He's pushing back on the dumb Kimmel thing, Jimmy Kimmel thing-

   27. KSKara Swisher20:39

       Mm-hmm

   28. MBMatt Belloni20:39

       ... where they-

   29. KSKara Swisher20:39

       Mm

   30. MBMatt Belloni20:39

       ... claim that, you know, they're going after Disney because of their DEI policies.
4. 27:28 – 39:56

   Netflix’s New Deals

   1. KSKara Swisher27:28

      Matt, we're back. Netflix is getting into the short form content business. The m- the company announced this week it's partnered with BuzzFeed, Condé Nast, Hearst, People, and various Penske media brands to bring the digital videos to the platform. These videos will range from three-minute shorts to 20-minute episodes focusing on travel, cooking, fashion, as well as celebrity content profiles and viral content. All these people have been making these extra what I call shoulder content that you see. You know, maybe-

   2. MBMatt Belloni27:51

      Oh, I used to do it. When I-

   3. KSKara Swisher27:52

      Yeah

   4. MBMatt Belloni27:52

      ... ran Hollywood Reporter, we had to do-

   5. KSKara Swisher27:54

      Yeah

   6. MBMatt Belloni27:54

      ... the video version. It's all-

   7. KSKara Swisher27:55

      The video version.

   8. MBMatt Belloni27:56

      Yeah.

   9. KSKara Swisher27:56

      Condé Nast does actually a pretty good job. Uh, they all do a pretty good job at it. This announcement comes in the wake of a new report that Netflix is struggling to retain fans between the first and second seasons of top shows, with some shows shedding 50% of their audience. Engagement is slowing, too. The amount of time customers spent watching Netflix last year grew by less than 2%. Um, talk about why they're doing this, and just for pe- I, I last, yesterday went on Brian Williams' new show, which is ... They're also, they've also bought a bunch of podcasters. I think the one that's doing really well is The Breakfast Club. Um-

   10. MBMatt Belloni28:26

       That's the one they're talking about. We'll know next week-

   11. KSKara Swisher28:29

       Yeah

   12. MBMatt Belloni28:29

       ... when their engagement report comes out for-

   13. KSKara Swisher28:31

       Yeah

   14. MBMatt Belloni28:31

       ... the first half of the year. But-

   15. KSKara Swisher28:32

       Yeah, but I don't think they're high. I don't f- I feel like they're not-

   16. MBMatt Belloni28:35

       I, I have heard internally the numbers are not high, but it's early days. That's what they're saying.

   17. KSKara Swisher28:39

       Yes. Yes.

   18. MBMatt Belloni28:39

       They're encouraged by the, the trends.

   19. KSKara Swisher28:41

       Yeah. But The Breakfast Club, from what I understand, is the real standout. That's what I heard from them. So, um, uh, talk about this whole thing and include what ... It's not really podcasting. They're, they're t- ... It was a TV show that I ... It was an interview. It was like, you know, Charlie Rose with 100% less creepy. It was just [laughs] ... I don't know. You know what I mean? It was like that's what it, that's what the set looked like.

   20. MBMatt Belloni28:59

       Well, they're calling them video podcasts. I mean, there's a-

   21. KSKara Swisher29:01

       Right

   22. MBMatt Belloni29:01

       ... a distinction there. I think the guilds, uh, would love for them to call them talk shows 'cause they have to pay more for them. But-

   23. KSKara Swisher29:07

       Fine. It was a talk show

   24. MBMatt Belloni29:09

       ... okay. This is all just about Netflix having YouTube envy. Th- they, they look at the engagement report every month from Nielsen. They're getting their butts kicked by YouTube. They know why. You know, so much of the viewing on YouTube is this lower quality, um, you know, user generated. It's just, it's, it's, it's, it's a different product than Netflix. It's free. Netflix is not free. And they're saying, "How can we boost our engagement numbers without going full on user generated and becoming-

   25. KSKara Swisher29:45

       Right

   26. MBMatt Belloni29:45

       ... YouTube?"

   27. KSKara Swisher29:47

       Right.

   28. MBMatt Belloni29:47

       But having enough on the platform where people start to consider it u- the everyday.

   29. KSKara Swisher29:53

       Right.

   30. MBMatt Belloni29:53

       You just go there to watch video.
5. 39:56 – 43:50

   Meta AI Generator

   1. KSKara Swisher39:56

      to. Meta has released an AI image generator called Muse Image, which the company's calling the creative partner that knows your world. I can't b- I can't believe these people write these things. The generator comes, uh, with a feature that lets users create AI images based on people's Instagram photos, and any adult with a public Instagram account was automatically opted in. Kara Swisher is opted out now, just so you know. [laughs] The company-

   2. MBMatt Belloni40:16

      You know, I saw your post on Threads, and I tried-

   3. KSKara Swisher40:19

      Yeah

   4. MBMatt Belloni40:19

      ... to do that last night, and I couldn't-

   5. KSKara Swisher40:20

      Yeah

   6. MBMatt Belloni40:21

      ... find the button to do that.

   7. KSKara Swisher40:23

      I will show you.

   8. MBMatt Belloni40:23

      Okay.

   9. KSKara Swisher40:23

      I will send you a step by step. Uh, the company also previewed an AI video generator, which will be coming available in the next month. Uh, w- d- what is these people? Are they just constant information thieves?

   10. MBMatt Belloni40:34

       [laughs]

   11. KSKara Swisher40:34

       They just continually do this?

   12. MBMatt Belloni40:37

       Listen, it's a, a ask forgiveness, not permission strategy.

   13. KSKara Swisher40:42

       Right, yep.

   14. MBMatt Belloni40:42

       It's been the case from the-

   15. KSKara Swisher40:43

       Yep

   16. MBMatt Belloni40:43

       ... very beginning in Silicon Valley, and it takes the Hollywood people to step up. The talent agency CAA put out a pretty good statement last night. No one, they said, "No one's image, name and likeness, voice, or creative work should be used by a third party, including AI models, without clear documented consent." They're telling them essentially what the industry said about Sora when OpenAI launched it. It's like, "Don't make this opt-out. Make it opt-in."

   17. KSKara Swisher41:10

       Right, exactly. They hate opt-in.

   18. MBMatt Belloni41:13

       I know, because nobody does it.

   19. KSKara Swisher41:14

       They ha- they've hated opt-in since AOL. They hate opt-in.

   20. MBMatt Belloni41:16

       Yeah.

   21. KSKara Swisher41:16

       They hate it.

   22. MBMatt Belloni41:17

       I get it.

   23. KSKara Swisher41:18

       And it's such a ri-

   24. MBMatt Belloni41:18

       I, it, listen, it's a much, it's a much less convenient business-

   25. KSKara Swisher41:21

       Yeah

   26. MBMatt Belloni41:21

       ... to have to ask permission.

   27. KSKara Swisher41:23

       That's correct.

   28. MBMatt Belloni41:23

       But that's kinda how it works when you have rights-

   29. KSKara Swisher41:26

       Again

   30. MBMatt Belloni41:26

       ... like copyright and name, image-
6. 43:50 – 56:18

   Hollywood Buzz

   1. KSKara Swisher43:50

      Matt, we're back with more headlines. The Sam Altman-focused movie, Artificial, has found a new home at an indie studio, Neon, after Amazon gave it the boot. Amazon walked away from the project after striking a major partnership with OpenAI. The $40 million, uh, film stars Andrew Garfield as Sam Altman and recounts the chaotic weekend in 2023 when he was fired and was reinstated as OpenAI's CEO. Neon plans to release the film later this year, and is expected to position it as an awards contender. Uh, you know, w- very well-regarded, uh, filmmaker made it. Um, uh, talk about, talk about that, and then just, uh, secondly, a big movie's obviously coming out or w- well, you mentioned Chris Nolan. His latest film, The Odyssey, which could be the biggest movie of the summer, maybe the year. Tickets went on sale, crashing AMC's app. People are desperate to see this.

   2. MBMatt Belloni44:36

      [laughs]

   3. KSKara Swisher44:36

      Fandango says first day sales were 10 times higher than Nolan's last film, Oppenheimer. Early reactions have been raves, despite a backlash online. It's a fake backlash online d-

   4. MBMatt Belloni44:45

      Oh, ridiculous

   5. KSKara Swisher44:46

      ... downloading the movie's trailers and calling the casting of some of the actors. It's ridiculous. It's a right-wing lunacy. One of the biggest critics, of course, is Elon Musk, who's been attacking the movie and director Nolan for months. Uh, I haven't seen the movie. I'm gonna see it Monday, I think. Um-

   6. MBMatt Belloni44:59

      Yeah, I'm going Monday as well

   7. KSKara Swisher45:00

      ... uh, it looks, uh, it looks, uh, astonishing, you know. Um, uh, talk about... I mean, I think they've beat the backlash back. I don't think anybody is, is-

   8. MBMatt Belloni45:07

      That doesn't matter. That's just noise

   9. KSKara Swisher45:09

      Yeah, it doesn't matter. So talk about these two movies, the Sam Altman-focused movie and the, um, and the, and this, uh, this other one. I think it'll do just fine. I think Neon is a good place for it to go. I-

   10. MBMatt Belloni45:20

       Listen, thi- this one, I don't know if you and Scott give a Wuss of the Year award.

   11. KSKara Swisher45:24

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   12. MBMatt Belloni45:24

       But Mike Hopkins at Amazon-

   13. KSKara Swisher45:27

       Yeah

   14. MBMatt Belloni45:27

       ... is an early contender. They-

   15. KSKara Swisher45:29

       All right. Well, you can have one. You have your own podcast.

   16. MBMatt Belloni45:31

       I know. I do.

   17. KSKara Swisher45:31

       You make a list.

   18. MBMatt Belloni45:31

       Trust me, we've, I've gone on and on about this one.

   19. KSKara Swisher45:33

       Wuss of the Year. We stick with Brandon Carr as a moron.

   20. MBMatt Belloni45:35

       [laughs]

   21. KSKara Swisher45:35

       That's the people we focus on. But you can go for Mike Hopkins, but go ahead.

   22. MBMatt Belloni45:38

       So listen, Amazon developed this movie, hired Luca Guadagnino, who did Call Me By Your Name and Challengers, a well-regarded filmmaker, to direct this movie. They went through all the motions. The only thing that has changed from when they greenlit this movie last year until now is that they now have a $50 billion relationship with OpenAI.

   23. KSKara Swisher46:00

       Mm-hmm. Right.

   24. MBMatt Belloni46:01

       And it's so obvious that they're not even denying it. [laughs] They-

   25. KSKara Swisher46:05

       Well, no, but when you go around, like I've, I've, you know, when you go around to these comp- they're just like, "We're not touching that," you know, if it's an Elon Musk property. They do this all the time, right? They do it.

   26. MBMatt Belloni46:13

       They do, but this, the difference here is that Amazon committed to this major-

   27. KSKara Swisher46:18

       To making it

   28. MBMatt Belloni46:18

       ... filmmaker and all-

   29. KSKara Swisher46:19

       Yeah

   30. MBMatt Belloni46:19

       ... of this talent, and Amazon wants to be both. They wanna serve the masters in Seattle and be a tech platform that is looking at the, you know, the future of AI and all the bets they're making there. But they also want to be able to do real Hollywood movies like Project Hail Mary that requires relationships with talent. The first call that Mike Hopkins had to make on this was to Brian Lourd, the head of CAA, the most powerful talent agency that has a lot of talent in this movie, and tell him, "This movie by your prominent filmmaker is getting dumped by the studio." What do you think Brian Lourd is gonna do the next time they have a hot piece of material?
7. 56:18 – 1:05:24

   Predictions

   1. KSKara Swisher56:18

      Okay. Uh, Matt, let's hear a prediction.

   2. MBMatt Belloni56:21

      All right, so I have a fun one and a serious one.

   3. KSKara Swisher56:24

      Okay. Go for it.

   4. MBMatt Belloni56:24

      I'll do the serious one first.

   5. KSKara Swisher56:26

      Okay.

   6. MBMatt Belloni56:27

      I think Netflix will launch a free tier within a year.

   7. KSKara Swisher56:33

      Oh. Hmm.

   8. MBMatt Belloni56:34

      This is where it's going. All of this low value podcast, social video, YouTube style-

   9. KSKara Swisher56:42

      Free

   10. MBMatt Belloni56:42

       ... content, they are going to separate it or have it available on the paid tier as well, but-

   11. KSKara Swisher56:48

       Right. Yeah

   12. MBMatt Belloni56:48

       ... they're gonna put it into this free tier that will serve as a top of funnel for the regular Netflix-

   13. KSKara Swisher56:55

       Advertising?

   14. MBMatt Belloni56:55

       ... and hopefully juice their advertising business-

   15. KSKara Swisher56:58

       Advertising. Yeah

   16. MBMatt Belloni56:58

       ... via engagement.

   17. KSKara Swisher56:59

       Right. Okay. Little bit of Tubi. Go ahead, yeah.

   18. MBMatt Belloni57:02

       A little bit of Tubi.

   19. KSKara Swisher57:02

       All right.

   20. MBMatt Belloni57:02

       And to compete with those.

   21. KSKara Swisher57:04

       Yeah. Yeah.

   22. MBMatt Belloni57:04

       And, and I, and I, you know, query whether it will harm the brand or cause people that pay for Netflix to switch to a non-paying situation, but it's getting to the point where Netflix is showing us their cards. They are so obsessed with YouTube. They will launch a real YouTube competitor in a free service, and they can put some of this old show content that they haven't licensed out anywhere and is not doing much on the platform. They can put that on the free tier and have it be like a Tubi or a Pluto TV where it serves as a funnel-

   23. KSKara Swisher57:37

       Yep

   24. MBMatt Belloni57:37

       ... for the other services.

   25. KSKara Swisher57:38

       Yep. That's a great idea. They could do deals. Yeah, that's an interesting, that's an interest- You know, it's interesting, I saw pictures of Neil Mohan from YouTube and Ted walking into the Sun Valley thing, uh, which was interesting. I was like, ooh, I'd like to see them chitty-chat. Like, I'd like to be in front of them, seeing them. Uh, by the way, that thing also looks bad this year for some reason. Like, I never liked it. Never get invited 'cause I'm a pain in the ass, but, um, but they, uh, it, it looks particularly tone deaf this year for some reason, but maybe you don't think so.

   26. MBMatt Belloni58:06

       I'm interested in the fashion.

   27. KSKara Swisher58:08

       Oh, okay. The outfits. Lauren.

   28. MBMatt Belloni58:09

       Yeah, the vest.

   29. KSKara Swisher58:10

       Lauren Sanchez.

   30. MBMatt Belloni58:10

       And the David Zaslav-

Episode duration: 1:05:26